April 16, 2025 • 58 mins
What happens when an architect-entrepreneur adds "mother" to her list of titles? Jessica Hester's candid conversation about balancing business and family offers a refreshing perspective beyond the typical work-life balance clichés.
Jessica founded Verdant Studio from her laptop and dining room table ten years ago. Her journey includes acquiring another firm, surviving both embezzlement and COVID in 2020, and having a baby while running her business. With remarkable honesty, she shares how these challenges shaped both her business approach and leadership style.
For entrepreneurs considering acquisitions, Jessica offers hard-earned wisdom: hire forensic accountants to thoroughly examine books, ensure cultural alignment between companies, and obtain insurance protection against potential fraud. Her experience highlights the difference between theoretical preparation and the messy reality of business growth.
Female entrepreneurs face unique challenges in breaking into traditional business networks typically dominated by men. Jessica observes that while progress has been made, women must still navigate spaces like golf courses and hunting trips to build the relationships critical for business success. Despite these hurdles, research suggests women-owned businesses outperform those run by men.
Perhaps most fascinating is Jessica's approach to motherhood through an entrepreneurial lens. Unlike many women who step away from business after childbirth, she returned after just two weeks, gradually increasing her involvement. This approach reflects her comfort with risk and ability to adapt to new challenges – skills honed through years of entrepreneurship. Even with careful preparation, her business lost a major client during her maternity leave, underscoring the delicate balance required when stepping away from a business you've built.
Ready to start your own business journey? Jessica's advice is refreshingly straightforward: "Just do it." Whether you begin as a side hustle or take the full plunge, proper financial planning and market research can help overcome hesitation about risk-taking. Visit verdant-studio.com to learn more about Jessica's architectural work and approach to creating authentic spaces.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you are a mother or you have a family and you're
a female, figuring out howyou're going to manage the
motherhood piece with theentrepreneurship piece.
It is extremely time consuming.
Even if you own a successfulbusiness and you have a lot of
support staff under you, you'reconstantly thinking about your
(00:20):
business.
You're constantly trying tomake changes or run things or
put out fires mostly put outfires.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Hi everybody.
Welcome to another episode ofBig Talk about small business.
Mark Zweig has failed me todayand has decided to not show up
for the show.
He's got more important thingsto do in life than to come on to
Big Talk, but that's okay.
I'm here.
I know for most listenersMark's the favorite.
(00:55):
I'm just kind of the guy on theside.
I'm his co-host, but anyway,I'm going to do my best here
today.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I have faith in you.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Thank you.
The good news is, though, Ihave an incredible guest with us
today.
Her name is jessica hester, andshe owns a studio, an
architectural firm, here out offayetteville.
Is it in fayetteville?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
no, it's in rogers.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It's in rogers, northwest arkansas, uh design
studio, architectural and designfirm called Verdant Studio.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I'm almost doing as good as Mark.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
You're doing so good.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, mark is so much more prepared than I am, which
is a kind of a half lie.
But anyway, jessica, welcome tothe show.
Thank you, it's great to haveyou here.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Glad to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, I appreciate your time, so tell us a little
bit about Verdant Studios.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, so I founded Verdant Studio by myself, on my
laptop, on my couch and diningroom table.
About 10 years ago.
We're going to have our 10-yearbirthday this summer and it's
been a wild ride.
It's been a wild ride, it'sbeen a wild ride.
So the first five years wereall just kind of organic growth,
(02:10):
like really just normal uhdoing stuff, and it was just an
architecture firm and I was thearchitect and had some help, um,
and then at year five I boughtanother architecture firm you
acquired another acquiredcompany.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
I acquired another firm.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Wow, it was quite the adventure.
We had a major embezzlement.
We didn't talk about thisbeforehand, but we had a major
embezzlement, covid.
All the things happened in 2020.
That was your 2020.
Wow, I got an MBA in educationin 2020.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
So you're almost an attorney now for yourself.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
For sure, and I've definitely like paid a year's
salary of of an attorney.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
No doubt, get it yeah .
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Um and so after after 2020, we made some changes and
um, we, we, uh.
One of the nice things, one ofthe silver linings about that
whole experience, is we wereable to kind of return to our
kind of origins and we were ableto keep some of our acquired
staff, which are fantastic, andstill with me and some clients
(03:19):
and then so at that point wewere about 20 people I'm really
big and then over the lastcouple of years, we've started
to be more strategic aboutthings and we're down to about
seven.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Kind of niched down a little bit, you got in your
lanes right, basically.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
We're figuring it out .
And then, last year I had ababy.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Uh-oh.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
So that really changed things.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
It does.
Yeah, yeah, Babies changethings.
It did.
They're so little, but theychange so much.
You know they do.
They're little and big at thesame time.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Very much, yes, little package.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Big experience.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
That's right.
That's right, man.
So the whole acquisition thing,so that was I mean.
You were in business for aboutfive years then.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I was, and then you decided to acquire this other
company, which is a prettysignificant decision, and then
you got the joyful experience ofintegrations.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Oh boy.
Yeah, it was something else.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
It was something else .
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Would you do it?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
again.
Nobody's ever asked me that, ohman, would I do it again?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
that's why I'm such a great interview host, you know.
That's why people love me morethan Mark of course, obvious,
that's obvious.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Um, I would do it again.
I would do it again if it wasthe right fit in the right
timing.
Yeah, and the circumstances andstars align.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
So maybe not that specific deal.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
I would never do that deal again Right.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
But you would do another acquisition again,
potentially.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, I would potentially do another
acquisition.
I would also go the other way.
I would sell if it became theright thing.
So I'm really open.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
You would become acquired.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, I would become acquired and loop into something
bigger if that made more sensefor the future of the firm.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
So for our listeners out there that maybe they have a
business or whatever, butthey're thinking about an
acquisition, what would maybethree top points that you would
give?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Oh, okay, hire a very good accountant and do forensic
bookkeeping before you run theacquisition.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
So actually really genuinely do due diligence.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yes, and don't just trust their documents, like make
sure they open their books andthat you have accounting access
to them and you have a forensicaccountant, not just some, you
know not, you're like dad'sbrother, you know brother or
something.
Sure, a real forensic CPA andaccountant.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Okay, that's good, that's really good advice.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Second point Second point would be make sure that
your motives are aligned withthe motives of the team that
you're acquiring and that theculture is the right fit.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
So a cultural value alignment.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, so I I heard recently that in acquisitions,
culture is the number one thingthat kills deals, um, and and
going through a process, um,almost like a strategic planning
effort with the new team andand your current team, um
leadership.
If it's a big acquisition, um,but the whole team.
If it's a smaller acquisition,but the whole team.
If it's a smaller acquisition,ahead of time how do you?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
how do you do that?
How do you do the motives?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
I often hire a third party for that kind of exercise.
So somebody who doesspecifically leadership,
training and strategic planning,come in and run some exercises
with both both the groups, tomake sure that your culture is
going to be aligned, got itbasically interviewing all the
staff members and talk aboutvalues and ambitions, talents,
capabilities, processes,processes, yeah, third point
(06:55):
Third point oh, those were twogood ones.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
I know they were really good.
I'm going to keep going onpoints until you're exact.
No.
Third and final.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Third point is and I would say most people are not
going to deal with this, butthis is the lesson that I
learned be very aware of thestaff, the staff you're bringing
on, and if they have uhstrategic access to either your
processes or your finances, makesure they're fully vetted and
insured.
Insured.
Yeah, so you can buy insuranceto help protect you from fraud
(07:31):
and other things Okay, got you.
Not key people.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
But it's more of a protection insurance for if they
are really just not people ofintegrity.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Wow so like a risk insurance kind of thing
Interesting Is that a specificlike acquisitional insurance.
No, you can get it at any pointin your business, yeah, man, I
tell you, speaking of insuranceman, it drives me nuts, dude.
Like I'm telling you like someof the most challenging things
in my business career have beenaccounting, legal, and now
(08:03):
insurance is a close third man.
It is so confusing they I meanit's just like it's the
greasiest business industry thatI can get.
I mean you can't get your handson anything.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yeah, well and when you and when you finally need it
yeah, oh, there's alwaysexcuses, oh yeah, no, no, no, we
don't do that.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
I mean it's, it's insane, it is absolutely insane.
You know, nobody likes to, to,to be accountable and own
responsibility anymore.
You know, it's like a it's afinger pointing nightmare which
keeps getting attorneys paid.
You know, you know,congratulations, yeah, I know
Right.
I mean, you know, and it'sfunny like there's real quick on
this.
Like I was talking to anattorney about a year ago and I
(08:43):
was like hey, what are you goingto do when AI takes all your
jobs?
They're like we're not worriedabout that and I'm like like
how's that?
And he's like we'll passlegislation to protect.
I'm like that's a, that's areally great point.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, they will, yeah , they totally will.
So, will the architects, by theway.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Oh, a hundred percent .
Yeah Right, congratulations onthat too.
Right, the rest of us?
You know, we're all you know,we're all screaming at that no,
we're really not.
But the all right.
So one thing just tell us realquick, what does your firm do?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, so Verda is an art and architecture firm.
One of the lovely things thathappened in 2020 is I brought on
an artist.
His original title was directorof visual thinking.
Now he is director ofplacemaking, which means that we
(09:32):
are able to do much more thanlike technical architecture.
We're not just designingbuildings, we're creating places
.
Okay, and so we bring him in tohis background is in
architectural scale, sculpture,art, but he does things like art
, master planning, wayfinding,creative placemaking is all
about creating authenticity andspaces where it doesn't
currently exist.
So think about locally, thinkabout like 8th Street Market and
(09:57):
how there's a layer of kind ofrawness and interestingness, and
that's because there's so manylayers of placemaking.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Somebody at some point was thinking about this
yes.
You know, is the ultimate apexof architecture.
Is it like to create Zen andNirvana in a space?
Speaker 1 (10:15):
MapUp's, not my game.
Okay, cool, yeah, all right,that's just me.
No, and we try to designwithout ego.
What we're trying to do isreally give our clients what
they need.
We're here to serve them,whether that's functionally or
financially, timeline, all thosethings.
We're a service industry asmuch as we are anything else.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Right, and so I think what the end, anticipation or
objective is that, like yourclients, patrons, whoever's
visiting whatever space, I meanthey have an experience, right,
there's something that theyleave with and it's memorable,
subconscious, and all that typeof stuff, right?
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Nailed it.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, I mean I'm an excellent interviewer.
Again, I mean I'm just it'samazing.
So, hey, we were talking beforelike kind of what we're going
to discuss today, and you knowthere's one thing that you have
a lot of passion in right, andthat's women in entrepreneurship
, women business leaders, right,and so I think that you know, I
really want to dig into that.
So what does that mean to you?
(11:20):
Uh, for, like, if there's alistener out there that is
female, that is looking to getinto entrepreneurship, I mean
what's you know, tell us alittle bit about your experience
with that and what this meansto you and what's important
about that.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Um, so I'll start with my experience with it.
Um, I, I started, I co-foundedmy first firm when I was 26
years old.
I co-founded my first firm whenI was 26 years old.
I was living in Georgia and Iwas in a town that didn't have a
lot of architects, and so Ifound another one and he hired
(11:54):
me to be just a designer onstaff.
That lasted six weeks and he'slike I think you should be a
partner, and so we just did it,we just jumped in together and
we we created a firm, the thetwo of us and, uh, I did it
because I didn't know any better.
(12:16):
Right, like I was totally naiveto the amount of risk I was
taking yeah and I I honestlydidn't even learn the amount of
risk I was taking until COVIDhit and we were dealing with all
those struggles.
Really, everything from I guessthat was like 2013 until 2020
was a pretty uphill or downhill,I don't know.
(12:39):
Positive.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
It was pretty positive.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
And things change.
I sold my ownership in thatfirm.
I moved back to northwestarkansas because my family's
here, I, um, I was born here and, um, I started brilliant studio
because I didn't know anybetter.
Um, I've always owned a firmand my, my parents are
entrepreneurs and so they'vealways just said own, own and
own and operate business, evenif it's kind of in the
(13:04):
background.
So you have the tax break andso I kind of I just started it.
I really wasn't doing much, Iwas helping with some like
bathroom renovations and justreally mundane things, and it
took off.
And so my experience and storyis one of not knowing the fear
(13:25):
that's involved in that and alsonot feeling like I had a lot of
risk.
I was young enough that Ididn't need a big paycheck, I
didn't have a family to support,I didn't have a mortgage, I
rented a small apartment and Ihad support and I had a support
system around me support systemaround me.
(13:47):
I know it would be differenttoday if I was like okay, how
are we going to?
Like, I contribute financiallyto the, to our wellbeing and our
livelihood as a family?
What happens if I don't makeany money for six months or a
year.
So what I, what I tell peoplenow is there's a math version,
right, there's a math version ofsaying get your finances in
order, save, have six months ofyour life saved away in case you
(14:10):
need it.
There's the spreadsheet version.
There is then the emotionalversion of making the decision,
and that is do I feelcomfortable?
Have I done the market research?
Do I feel like I have a productor an idea that is market ready
and viable?
Have I run the tests?
I think starting a business isall about running the
(14:31):
experiments, and if you're ableto do it as a side hustle,
depending on what it is, as inthe night, and you're making,
hopefully as much money as youmake in your day job, or close
to it, close to it, then you can.
You can take the jump and andhopefully, feel comfortable
about it.
Um, that's that's kind of how Idescribe entrepreneurship.
Now, that's whether you're aman or a woman, it that it
(14:55):
doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Right, it's just the reality.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
That's just the reality of starting a business.
I, in my opinion, um, the otherside of it is if, if you are a
mother and or you have a familyand you're a female, figuring
out how you're going to managethe motherhood piece with the
entrepreneurship piece.
It is extremely time consumingand you have a lot of support
(15:21):
staff under you.
You're constantly thinkingabout your business.
You're constantly trying tomake changes or run things or
put out fires mostly put outfires and so being prepared for
creating balance in that is areal challenge.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
So would you say then , like the big difference, I
guess, in male and femaleentrepreneurship in a way, is it
is about the motherhood piece,or is there, is there more to it
?
Is there something before,preliminary, before that?
Yeah what's the what's thewhat's the other part.
I mean before we jump into yeah, yeah, good question.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I think even before you have children and a family
there's.
It's different for womenbecause, largely because of
network, I think, okay so somuch of business is built on who
you know um, even in today'sworld yeah and getting in the
room, being in the space withthe people who are making
(16:20):
decisions about money, aboutfinancing, about purchasing and
cap, like all the.
All of those decisions are oftenlargely men and they often have
a network and and getting inthat network requires you to to
participate in things that arealso largely men.
You know, golfing and huntingand fish all those things that
are typically male dominated.
(16:43):
All those things that aretypically male dominated.
So learning how to navigatethat, those relationships, in a
way that is strategic andeffective, could be a real
challenge as a woman.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
You know, it makes me think like a lot of that has to
do, or maybe a good portion ofit has to do with, like just the
historical makeup of it, right?
I mean like, if I mean that'skind of the yeah where where
it's happened, because there wasobviously many decades, you
know centuries, I guess youcould even say, if you go back
even further to where it was amale dominated industry or just
(17:22):
reality yeah right, but you know, mean, I think that obviously
there's been a tremendous amountof progress, right, and there's
been a lot of champions, anddefinitely a lot of female
champions, that have brokethrough those networks as
reestablished, right.
Do you think that today, likeit's, it's, it's evolved enough,
or do we still have a long waysto go, do you?
I mean, where do you think thatbalance is?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I think we still have some room to go, but I think
it's actually going to.
I think it's going to solveitself.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I think, generationally, as our,
certainly, as our children, butmaybe even as, like, the next
generation comes on, I thinkit's actually going to solve
that gender gap even more.
There's actually some researchrecently that we've spent so
much energy, uh, impacting thewomen in our, in our lives, in
(18:11):
our country, that our boys arebeing left behind, and so I
think balance is reallyimportant.
Um, and I don't know that wefigured that out as a teacher,
yet I know, you know, as amillennial, that my experience
has been very gendered and notalways in a positive way.
(18:34):
Okay, my first internship I hadwhen I was in undergraduate
school and it was towards theend of my schooling and I had
gotten into grad school.
I'd gotten into one of the bestgrad schools in the country.
I was super excited about it.
I walked in to tell my bosswhich, by the way, the firm was.
(18:54):
I think there were three womenin a 30% firm and I was one of
them.
Yeah, and I walked in to tellmy boss about it and, as I was
telling him, the owner of thefirm heard the conversation and
he asked me in this bullpen, youknow, set up right, open office
, set up.
My boss was extremely excitedfor my, my opportunity to go to
(19:18):
grad school.
The owner of the firm said well,why would you do that?
And I said oh, it's going to beincredible.
I going to get an incredibleeducation.
He goes, but your place is inthe kitchen, are?
You serious and I had workedfor him for three years um, I
don't know, I mean that's insane, so yeah I mean those, those
things were still happening.
Now I've never I haven't had anexperience quite that yeah
(19:40):
impactful or demeaning sincethen and it's been 20 years
since that happened- yeah.
But it is so.
I think it is getting better.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I don't think it's perfect.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Right sure.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
But I don't know that it ever will be.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's like we have a, there's a pendulum
swing going on.
I mean I think it's like theway everything is right.
You look at supply chain orwhatever you know, I mean Right,
everything is right.
You look at supply chain orwhatever you know.
Yeah, right, just for you knowrecent topics.
But I mean like it, you knowwhere does that balance hit?
And I mean I think you're right, it's just going to figure
(20:15):
itself out.
But I feel like that, you know,I mean I can testify just as a
male, right, I mean there's, youknow, my experience is.
You know I as a male, right, Imean there's, you know my
experiences, you know, I wouldsay that if I went back to when
I was much younger, maybe 20years ago, I think that there
was a little bit more cleardifference, but today it seems
like that it's it's.
It has progressed, you know,and and um, you know that's just
(20:40):
insane, I can't, I mean I'mhaving trouble getting past what
that dude said.
I know it's just like that'slike you know, I mean that's
insane that that happened in2000s.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
That's craziness.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
It is crazy.
But you know, the thing that itdid do was it fueled me to
never want to work at an officelike that, which is why I give
him a lot of credit.
Honestly, if I saw him on thescreen I'd be like, hey, thanks,
man.
Your very inappropriatebehavior fueled me to start my
own company because I reallywanted to create a culture that
valued everybody and gaveeveryone space to be the person
(21:14):
that they wanted to be andsupport them.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
That's fair man, I like that.
And so are there other thingslike I mean, like that you would
think you know.
And speaking of the networkstoo, I think that it's um worth
noting.
You know there's that there isthat male history, but then
there's, I think one of thebigger things, or another big
thing to this is just the, the,uh, the aristocratic.
(21:37):
You know, old money, yeah,scenario and and just, or it can
be old money in companies orindividuals, those networks that
I mean like it's almostimpossible for anybody to bust
into yeah you know I bump upinto that a lot, but but on that
side too it's also, I think,that that is evolving quite a
(21:58):
bit.
There's a lot of now, new moneyin the last 20 years, you know,
know, you look at like the, youknow the big tech players, like
I mean, they bust a lot ofbusting up in that.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah Well, and they're creating off like VC
opportunities and other things,that to fund things that are
that would never have beenfunded 20 years ago.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't really operate.
I mean, I I hear about it.
I don't operate in that worldvery much but it is, I think,
that kind of the you scratch myback, I'll scratch yours
mentality Like we.
(22:29):
We do still talk a lot aboutlike the old boys club here in
Northwest Arkansas and it it is.
It's gotten better.
even in the last 10, the 10years I've been back here I've
seen it improve greatly and it'snot just in like finance and
money, because I think that'sdefinitely happening, but even
in, like you know, at the citylevel just trying to get a
(22:50):
project permitted, things likethat it used to be so much
different and now that, becauseof our growth, they've had to
put so much structure in place,and I think that translates to a
lot of businesses where youknow, you used to walk into the
bank and do a handshake deal,and now there's just too much
structure in place and so theythey can't be as um one-sided as
(23:11):
they should be.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, no, I mean, and I think that's encouraging.
I think that's encouraging forentrepreneurs, new entrepreneurs
, I mean, like the there's waysto.
You know, like you mentionedthe bc right that all that stuff
, a lot of that stuff, there's alot of new financing, new
startup, there's new capitalopportunities.
That I remember whenever I wasyoung trying to get a business
going, I didn't even know aboutthem back there, weren't
anywhere there.
(23:33):
I mean, it wasn't happeninganywhere around here.
But it feels like that theyoung startup companies have a
little bit more options yeah,you know, and they know about it
too.
Yeah yeah, you can go hunt forit and you can get meetings and
you can learn and reallyaccelerate pretty rapidly if
you're digging your heels in.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, and you have a good idea and you're willing to
work hard.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yeah, I remember trying to sit down in a bank
when I was like 22, and I wastalking to this loan officer at
a bank I don't remember who itwas or which bank, but it was
like the most intimidating thing.
They're asking questions I hadno idea about and I left there
without any kind of option.
You know, I just felt like thatwas it?
That one person, that oneanswer, you know, and it was
(24:20):
really discouraging, but, toyour point, it fueled me to just
do it my daggum self and justgo make some sales, and that's
really where the money's at.
The best financing in the worldis from clients, for sure, and
customers.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
For sure, for sure, if you can make it work that way
, the way that I describe goingto the bank because we have an
operating line of credit andsome other things, and every
time we have to go through thatprocess, I'm like man, I don't
want to get naked again.
Because, that's what it feelslike.
It feels like you're totallyexposing yourself every time you
have to have a conversationwith them.
But that is the systems thatare also helping it be more fair
(24:50):
.
Sure.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
So yeah, how do you question that Before we get into
motherhood?
Is there anything else that,like I mean, you would say that
that's a significant topic inregards to female
entrepreneurship that you wantto communicate to the audience?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I think more women should do it.
I think that the emotional sideoften stops women from taking
the plunge and taking the risk.
I think, just generally, womentend not to be the risk takers
in a relationship or across ourculture, and I would just
empower more women to do it.
Take the risk.
The worst thing you can do isfail, and really is it that bad?
(25:34):
You're going to have a greatstory and you're going to be
able to leverage that experienceinto something else that is
probably going to push youhigher than you were before.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Yeah, that's.
I mean obviously like, what Ilove is kind of defining an
entrepreneur versus aprofessional manager or a really
highly skilled, experiencedperson.
Huge difference, right.
And one of my favoritedefinitions is that they see a
market need and they go to fixthat, but then they take a
(26:03):
significant personal risk.
Yeah.
You know you have to have atleast those two components to
call yourself an entrepreneur.
Now Mark and I get on thissoapbox quite a bit.
A solopreneur is notnecessarily an entrepreneur.
Entrepreneurs are growing.
They're risking Solopreneurs alot of times, just they're
(26:24):
building a job that they put abox around.
They have freedom, but they'renot trying to grow.
They don't want to hireemployees, they want to deal
with sales tax, they want todeal with all this stuff If they
get a big job, which is fine,I'm not knocking a solopreneur.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
We need them all.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
We need them all.
Honestly, if I wasn't anentrepreneur, I probably would
be a solopreneur, you know,because I don't know that I'm
employable anymore.
You know, but it depends on whatthe deal is, you know.
But you know, I think that whenwe talk about that, when you
bring up that term risk, youknow that's a big deal right and
(27:06):
I think that there's a verysmall percentage of just human
beings that take anentrepreneurial approach right,
that will step into that unknownsea of risk.
Um, and you know, and I, and toyour point, like I mean, should
we have more women that havethat, that, that take that step?
(27:30):
You know?
And then how we, how do you,how would you encourage that,
like just as a as a female to afemale, I mean, like, like I
mean, how would you articulatethat it's okay, I understand
it's okay and go for it?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Um, my favorite thing to tell people is if you have
an idea and you've put yourguardrails in place, just do it.
Just do it.
If you need to baby step itright, like do it as a side
hustle to start it off and thenlike inchworm your way into it,
do it that way.
Find a way that works for yourlifestyle, but just do it.
(28:07):
Figure out what that version is.
And if you can just take theplunge and like leave your day
job behind and really dig in,that's even better.
You'll find that your growth isprobably a lot faster if you're
able to give it all your energy.
There's a statistic out therethat actually that women-owned
companies, women entrepreneurs,are far more successful than
(28:28):
male entrepreneurs and malecompanies let me tell you
something like I mean from, fromjust a.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
I mean from my experience, like a, a, a woman
owned, a woman entrepreneur has.
I mean like I, I get like it'spretty intimidating to an extent
because they're I mean whenthey're on something like I mean
it's, it's going to get doneand it's going to get done with
(28:58):
perfection.
I mean I have a lot ofadmiration towards that.
I mean, cause there's a lot ofthings.
I just like I feel like I can'tmultitask very well at all.
I can't.
I'm not quick withconversations, you know.
I mean there's a lot of Wellyou're faking it really well,
then I mean, hey, I am Now I'm areally great liar.
No, I'm just kidding, no, but Imean, but it's.
(29:20):
But they, you know, like myexperience has been like I mean,
it's, you know, and alsothere's a lot of accountability
for some reason.
Like I mean, that's just been alittle bit of my experience,
but I've met some reallyincredibly awesome female
entrepreneurs.
I mean, they bring some grit,that's good.
(29:46):
Yeah, I'm friends with quite afew female entrepreneurs and
we're all just gritty, yeah you,yeah, you're scaring me right
now, you know.
So let's get into motherhoodthough, because that's the,
that's the.
That's one of the things Ithink that we all can absolutely
agree with.
There is a difference I thinkinnately humankind you know from
(30:07):
a father and a mother you knowon, if you're owning a business
and I'm a dad, it's going to bedifferent than if you own a
business and you're a mom.
For sure, right, we can agreewith that 100% yes.
So tell me about motherhood andentrepreneurship, because you
actually know this quite wellrecently, right?
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yes, yeah, seven months ago.
Yeah, seven months ago, Ibecame a mom.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
That's awesome, congrats.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Thank you.
And we liked out our babieshealthy and sleeps well and eats
well and all the things, soshe's been an easy baby,
comparatively Good.
It was a big change for thecompany, um, and you know I so I
only took two weeks off of ofreal maternity leave and I
(30:55):
wouldn't suggest that for anyonenecessarily, but it's that's
what I needed to do for myself.
Um, part of it was just notwanting things to like my tasks
to pile up yeah um, and feellike I was going to come back to
something that was notmanageable.
And I did.
I actually put a lot of piece.
I hired people to actuallybackfill me while I was gone,
(31:18):
but I just wanted to kind ofstay in the know on it.
So I gradually came back overthree months of leave and that
way just wasn't.
It wasn't as stressful that wayand that was actually
recommended a recommendation ofmy um OBGYN, who's a female, you
know she owns her, her clinic,um, and she said just don't let
(31:39):
it don't, don't let it pile up.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah, so I just start getting back in the groove,
right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
And she says if there's a way to balance you
know, a couple hours a day oftaking care of some things, then
that will help.
Um, so, help you process it.
And also, like you've been inthis, like like grinded out
mindset for years, and then togo from like that to just kind
of like I mean, the first threemonths of a baby's life, they
(32:06):
mostly sleep.
Yeah, um, that's not that forme, that wasn't the time when I
needed to take off work.
I, I needed to take off work.
You know, a couple of monthsago, not not not those first
three months yeah um, but um.
But lots of things change, likephysically, your body's way
different.
You are the lifeblood for yourchild and they do demand a lot
(32:31):
of your time from thatperspective and you're
recovering from a major physicallife event.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Yeah, you know, I think one thing you said right
in the beginning was aboutpreparing the company for your
absence, right?
You know, I think any businessowner can like, I mean, if we
really think about it, if I waslike, okay, I'm going to be out
for three months, two months amonth, two weeks, right,
whatever it might be, like Imean, if I'm preparing for that,
(32:59):
like that's why I don't takevacations, really, yeah, but
what if?
You did, I know exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
That's what's.
That's what's stressful for meto think about that.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
So there's what did you do to prepare?
So luckily you know you'repregnant and you got lots of
time.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yeah, I mean there's some clues, Something's coming.
You got many months to figureit out.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
One of the primary things I did was I hired some
help to come into the companyand I trained them on some of my
key tasks, and this is well inadvance.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yeah, this was like months in advance of delivering,
yeah, okay, and that they wereable to come in and take over
some really primary things,especially the one of my biggest
roles is client communication,okay, and just maintaining that
relationship relationship, andthey were able to do that.
For the most part, I will say,you know they'd.
Only it wasn't what if I couldwere to do it different.
Let me put it this way if Iwere to do it different.
(33:56):
I we knew for several years wewere going to try and have a kid
.
It actually took us a while tohave a kid.
I would have done that processa couple of years in advance,
because just having them donewhat process?
Hiring those that help.
Oh, okay, wow because they needtime to build relationships
with clients to make them feelcomfortable.
Um, I didn't give them enoughtime to do do it well, um, and
(34:22):
so we actually lost one of ourreally big clients.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Yeah, that was on leave, yeah it, I mean.
I mean honestly, like we allknow, right, like relationships
are that's it that's, that's,that's it right.
And then to you know but?
But when you're talking aboutthat, it presents to me like a a
financial struggle in a way,because I mean it's hard to like
.
You're still dependent upon thebusiness yeah right, it's not
(34:45):
like you're riding an 80 profit,unless maybe you are and you're
just I know I'm not okay, cool,I just clarified that because I
was going to say do you haveany positions open for partners?
yeah, but, uh, but you gottahide, like what you're talking
about is adding additionalexpenses to an burden to company
and then doing that for monthsprior to get acclimated for an
(35:11):
extremely significant role.
Right or part of the businesswith relationship management.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
That's I mean.
We're talking about preparingto leave.
That's what it takes.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
That is what it takes .
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Wow, that's pretty serious stuff right there yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
And you know, my husband is also a high-level,
he's an engineer, so he's ahigh-level person in his company
and it wasn't even remotely thesame for him, right, like he it
didn't, he could check in andout of the business in a way
that I couldn't, because he'semployed.
Because he's employed.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
But he also has the client management role.
Okay, but because he wasn'trecovering from major surgery.
You know, dealing with majorbody changes and feeding a child
and all of those things Likeyou.
Just it's like if you have anykind of major surgery, you need
that time in convalescence andhe just was able to do it much
(36:12):
different than I was, and Ithink that you know, just kind
of circling back to preparingfor it, he didn't have to
prepare for his absence the waythat I had to prepare for my
absence.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
Well, the reality of this is like it's.
You know, he's obviously busyand has a lot of change going on
, right For sure.
But I think what you'rearticulating, that I'm kind of,
you know, having a little bitmore awareness about, is like
he's probably going to feel welland normal yes, exactly, and
(36:51):
there's a huge difference withthat.
Totally, if you get sick or yougot the flu or whatever, like
you're, you're down likephysically, yeah dude, it's hard
to do anything right, right.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
And my point in that is that male entrepreneurs are
never going to experience unlessthey have major surgery of some
kind.
They're really never going toexperience that level of
physical change.
And you know, especially if anymom has any kind of postpartum
depression or anxiety or any ofthose things that just your
(37:23):
hormones create, you're justnever going to understand that
and that's not good or bad, itjust is yeah, right um, and so,
thinking as a as a woman, as awoman owner, how do you manage?
just the maternity leave pieceis extremely challenging and it
does cost a lot of money.
Um, but I I don't know thatthere's any other way to do it
(37:47):
unless you and I don't have apartner.
If I had a business partner, itwould be different.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
No, that's very true.
I mean, you know it's man, Itell you, like not to jump onto
another topic, but having havinga business part, like you
experienced that, like you hadone in the beginning, now you're
rolling solo right.
Um, there is a difference inhaving that person that and it's
kind of like a marriage right,like we are, we together are
committed.
(38:12):
You know, like in a marriagethat the bills get paid, kids
get taken, you know all thislife gets taken care of.
Same thing in business and beingable to lean on somebody and
tell them a need or have adifferent perspective of
somebody that's really investedin the outcome and that's
dependent, I mean somebodythat's really invested in the
outcome, totally, totally, andthat's dependent.
I mean that's a huge deal.
And so I always encourage folkslike if they ask me, would you
(38:34):
do?
You know, because I have peoplecome to me that never started a
business and they're like, whatdo you think about partnerships
?
I mean, should I have a partner?
Because they hear the horrorstories of getting kicked out.
I'm like man, listen, like it's.
You know, there's a lot, a lotof benefit to having a partner.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
I agree it actually this whole experience.
I've been having conversationsabout bringing a partner on.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
It brought some additional light to the need
right.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah, well, you know, and we've had one kid.
If we ever want to have anotherkid, are we going to?
Am I trying to do it the sameway?
I don't know.
Maybe what I've proven tomyself is I ran that experiment
and it didn't work as well as Ithought it would work.
Um, and I would just need moretime with with any help and but,
but is that person come on as apartner and they, you know,
(39:21):
does that help solve some of thefinancial burden and some of
the other things?
Um, so all of that has come outof this experience.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Yeah, and you know, with a partner as well, like
it's, it's, I would say, andtell me if you agree.
But it's about having somebodyemotionally connected to the
business right that you knowlike part of I can only imagine
like but part of you preparingto leave for this business right
and you hire people, you gotsome tactical things taken care
(39:51):
of and even if you did it,absolutely perfect and you felt
like everything's running itsship, but there's still this
emotional burden that you'refeeling like there's a fear.
There is a fear right thatsomething significant is going
to happen or I'm going to lose asignificant client, because
it's hard to trust anybodythat's not very much invested in
(40:14):
that business.
Like it's the wake up at 4 amworried about it.
So you go ahead and get up andyou start working before workday
starts, because thatrelationship is so critical.
It's hard to pay somebody andhave that type of fear.
Folks that are employed justdon't have that fear.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
They don't, and we don't want them to.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Right sure.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
They don't make enough money for that.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
No, no, no 100%.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
But having somebody with skin in the game, both
financially and the financepiece, often creates the
emotional piece.
But who's bought into thevision, who's bought into the
success and who knows that ifthey're successful they'll reap
a financial reward from that,makes all the difference it does
and it's it's hard to you can'treplicate it with an employee
(41:03):
hardly, I mean occasionally.
You find like the perfectemployee, that's like I'm really
bought in and I don't want, Idon't want the responsibility of
partnership.
But I'm going to do all thethings, but I don't.
I've never had that necessarilyhappen.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm empathizing a little bit
with your preparedness for this,and, but you, even though you
did prepare and you did takeyour two weeks which is not very
much at all, but you know butlike that, you were still the
one carrying the burden of thebusiness, yeah, even even if you
weren't actually working thatday, right those days.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
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Speaker 3 (41:56):
So what else is involved in motherhood?
I mean now, okay, so we talkedabout the event of having the
baby and the preparednessbeforehand.
Yeah, what about coming back?
And now you're a mom?
Right, you left the business,not necessarily a mom with a
baby, but now you're coming back.
(42:20):
Is there a difference there?
Speaker 1 (42:22):
I mean Absolutely Okay yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Stupid question interviewer.
No, of course there's adifference there.
I mean Absolutely Okay, yeah,stupid question interviewer.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
No, there's, of course there's a difference.
Yeah, yeah, the biggest I thinkthe biggest like physical
difference is just time.
My time is just so different.
You know where I used to wakeup.
So this is.
This happened yesterday.
I woke up at 5 am.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
Perfect.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Expecting to get a couple hours of work in before
the baby woke up and we had todo all the school routine and
all daycare stuff.
She woke up at like 5.15.
What?
What is she thinking?
Instead of getting those fewhours of work in that I really
needed to do to prepare for it,I had a project interview
yesterday morning.
You know I just took care of mykid, but you know it works out.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
I was talking to my husband last night.
I'm like you know, I could havespent two more hours on it, but
would it have been a betterinterview?
No, the interview was great.
The team did what I asked themto do.
They were totally prepared andready for it.
I spent 30 minutes before theinterview thinking about what I
was going to say and that's allI really needed.
So you do start to realize,like maybe I don't actually need
the level of, maybe I don'tneed to worry about it as much,
(43:43):
and some of that comes with justtime and having some team
behind you to pick up somepieces.
If I was a solopreneur, thatwould have it would have been an
absolute catastrophe.
Actually, I would have justwalked in and been like hey,
chris, my husband, you have toget up.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Yeah, sorry.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Sorry, I've got to go do this thing, so you're now
getting up at 5am, even thoughyou were up with her at one.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter what you have to
do today.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
He is definitely as much a part of the business as I
am most days, so the time thingis really different.
You know, the evenings there'salways a three-hour window where
we're just being parents andtaking care of the house and
being normal humans likeeverybody else.
But then, you know, eighto'clock hits and we're often
(44:25):
laptops and trying to get a fewthings done before the night
ends.
So your schedule really shifts.
I think that's one of thebiggest things.
You just shift your time towork in different windows.
So that's a physical kind ofpiece of it.
I think that the emotional pieceis you just don't want to Like.
(44:52):
I just don't want to spend 80hours a week grinding it out at
the company anymore.
I want to spend 40 hours a weekstrategically doing the things,
the high level, high valuethings I need to be doing.
And then I want to spend thoseother 40 hours with my family.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Yeah, yeah, that's fair man.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
I mean, and I think that can impact that, that
impacts dads too, right, totally, you know.
But but is there, like you know, I don't know, man I like, I
see in my experience, um, youknow, with my wife, particularly
like she, she thinksdifferently as a mom than I do
think as a dad, specificallyrelated with the kids, right,
(45:28):
you know, um, and, and, and I'llbe the first to admit there's,
it's, it's another level ofwhere my natural thinking occurs
, like I do a lot, I don't do alot of things cause I'm not
thinking like she's thinking,you know.
Yeah.
I mean, have you had thatexperience at all?
Or thinking like she's?
Speaker 1 (45:46):
thinking you know, yeah, I mean, have you had that
experience at all?
You know, I haven't had it thatmuch, but I've seen it.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
Maybe your husband's just better than me.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
My husband is amazing .
Speaker 3 (45:54):
I mean, he sounds awesome, he gets like all the
gold stars.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
He is A lot of days he's just, he's thinking about,
like, did we wash the bottlesand get the things?
Yeah, and he's doing that andbut.
But I will say I think that'sunusual yeah not just because my
husband is that way, but thebusiness was my first baby, true
, um, and so it's been reallyhard to kind of, even though my
(46:18):
I will always choose my actualbaby.
My business like no confusionthere.
There there's been a bit of alike emotional transition and
it's different.
I know that it's justmotherhood has been different
for me because I had thebusiness.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
You know, and also I think that it sounds like your
husband too.
He probably supports you a lotwith your business.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
He does.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
Right and so it's, you know, having a real baby or
a physical baby, a human baby.
But you had this babybeforehand and I mean, if he was
supportive and engage with youon that and helping in kind of
like your you know your partnerin a way on that.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Totally like a silent partner in many ways yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
Yeah, it's like he probably can pick up on some of
the pressure that you'reundergoing with this additional
human baby that's in the picture.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Absolutely and is able to help navigate that
Absolutely, and you know wereally try.
He's got an incredible careeras well, so we try to support
each other in that effort.
I would not relate ourexperience to other partnerships
where somebody owns a business,but I would not relate it to
(47:31):
anybody who's got two employees.
It's just been so different.
From that perspective, I'vewatched some of my team members
have children and the women thathave babies on my staff.
Their relationship tomotherhood is completely
different than mine.
They're doing what your wifedoes, Right.
(47:51):
They're always thinking abouttheir kid.
They're, you know, like they'rethe primary caregiver.
They're doing all the things.
They're worried about stuff.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
They react to things that happen in a much different
way than I do.
They just think about itdifferently, and I just want to
be clear it's not that they lovetheir baby more than I love my
baby.
It's just we approachmotherhood really differently.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
You know, honestly, Jessica, I don't know if this is
.
I'm not trying to be apsychologist and I'm not
licensed.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I do love some therapy, I do too.
Big fan, big fan.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
I love it too.
You know one of my, my bigthing I want to have a
psychologist on this show you?
Speaker 1 (48:31):
oh, I have one for you, do you yes?
Speaker 3 (48:32):
connect me afterwards , I will.
She, she's awesome.
Okay, I love it.
I love fantastic psychologists,people that help me think in
about how I think, but anyway,yeah, but what I was thinking of
when you're talking about that,uh, that difference is like
maybe it has something to dowith the fact that you're
actually risk tolerant totally,totally, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
No, I have like, like , my relationship with risk is
really unusual, for you knowit's, it's the same as every
other entrepreneur.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
Yeah, yeah and so yeah, there we go, I figured it
out.
You did.
I'm a genius, oh my gosh didyou just make 700?
No, I wish.
I mean I need to.
Don't wait, let me 700, I'llbill you okay but I mean, but
there's something to be saidabout that, right.
Like I mean, you're kind ofapproaching it's almost like
from the way you say like youapproach motherhood in a in kind
(49:26):
of an entrepreneur, in anentrepreneurial way, in a way
yeah, because it's ingrained inme.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
It's yeah it's my process and um, you know, as
long as she's breathing, she'sfine.
Speaker 3 (49:35):
Yeah, right no, absolutely, you know, and it's,
um, you know it's.
It's really an interestingconversation because I think
that there's an awareness youknow from just you know like, as
a male right, and how I'mthinking about life and life
experiences happen.
My youngest, uh, whenever I hadbusinesses Right, but it, you
(50:09):
know, it didn't like like to me.
There was this like Iimmediately shifted into kind of
like this balance mode, like itbecame you know an additional
responsibilities that I had andI just rolled with them and I
just figured out and however Ido, you know, and and and make
those things happen.
Uh, but there was not.
(50:29):
I did not prepare beforehand.
Okay.
Okay, and and I did not have anysort of like, um, you know,
like when the when the baby waswas coming and it was going to
be delivered, like there wasn'ta time period that I felt that I
needed to take off to recover.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Oh man, yeah, that's.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
Is that bad?
That's bad.
I'm judging you, you should, ohman.
Well, now here's the reality,though I was very present and
inactivated and involved in allthis and helpful, very helpful.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:06):
Right, you know, I mean I did a lot.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Did you end up taking it off?
You just didn't plan for it.
Or did you continue to work andyou?
Speaker 3 (51:13):
just, I worked in different, different time slots.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Okay, you adjusted your schedule.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
I adjusted yeah, so I wasn't meaning to communicate,
I didn't care or participate inthe baby care or participate in
the baby.
No, no, I didn't mean that, butI will tell you like there was
not, like no, what it was is,like you know, a week before,
two weeks, as they got closer,right Like I was, you know, I
was working harder and longer toprepare because I knew that I
(51:38):
wouldn't, for whatever timeperiod that I wouldn't have.
But I did not prepare like youdid, I wasn't thinking forward,
I was just rolling and adjustingas it came along and I just
worked longer and harder andkind of ridiculously, in no set
pattern, right.
And then as and I just kind ofgauged day by day, so, is mom
(52:01):
okay, Baby's okay, okay, thenI'm going, okay and I'm close by
and I come back and you know,do this.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
And I have to break and that was in the day where
you couldn't remote work andyeah, it was before all that,
right, yeah, um, would you do itdifferent now?
Speaker 3 (52:18):
I don't think so.
No, I mean because I mean, likewhat happened?
Like here's the reality, like II have a lot of memories of
being around my, my daughter,right During those times.
Like I mean I was absolutely ahundred percent, you know.
Like it, I mean I was, you know, I mean I was the best diaper
change in the world and you know, I mean I was like really good,
(52:38):
really fast, like I mean alwayshad my stuff together, like
there was never a mess.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (52:44):
Yeah, I mean I was so good at it and I you know,
feeding, taking a daycare, youknow, as that started happening,
like you know, giving baths, Imean I was feet, you know all
that stuff, so I mean I wouldn'tdo.
I don't know that I would do itdifferently, because I do feel
like that I was very present andI was helpful.
I guess the point is thatbeforehand I guess I just didn't
(53:09):
think about a bigger time span.
I don't know, it's kind ofweird.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Well, that doesn't really surprise me.
I think that a lot of well.
I think women think about itbecause they know they're going
to have to recover 100%.
Men don't think about itbecause it's all.
You're just adding something in, and especially if you're
already running a business,adding in is nothing.
You're so used to just beinglike okay, I'm just going to
(53:38):
have this extra responsibilityand I'll just you know, I'll
balance it with all the otherstuff that I have going on.
Speaker 3 (53:44):
That's what my mentality was, balance it with
all the other stuff that I havegoing on.
That's what my mentality wasand I think the difference I
mean to point out the differencethere is that you know I wasn't
, you know, personally thinkingabout me being down.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (53:56):
In a way right.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
Right and and physically you're, you're not
really down, although there's alot of there's a lot of research
now about the impact of havingkids on men.
And there is a level ofpostpartum that happens with men
as well now, and so you knowhad you reacted to having a baby
(54:20):
differently.
it might not have worked out aswell, right, If you would have
been somebody who had beenafflicted with some kind of
postpartum reaction, ofpostpartum reaction.
So I think in some ways you gotlucky, but probably also
because you were used to thatlevel of stress and risk and and
the kind of putting out firesand navigating between
challenges, you were prepared.
Speaker 3 (54:38):
You know that's interesting.
Thank you for the psychologylesson.
Now we're zeroed out, right,you me?
I don't okay I don't know youabout the therapy session, but I
mean it is.
It is interesting, though, asan entrepreneur they're like you
.
I think that's something toreally talk about someday is
like the ability to like gettingshot with arrows all day and
(54:59):
you just kind of duck, dodge,totally get hit and take one out
, bleed a little bit yeah, youknow, you just kind of go on,
and that was definitely mymentality.
It just it was another aspect inlife that was coming in and I
just managed it.
Yeah, I just flowed with it.
Yeah.
And I contributed inchampioning it out, like I try
to do with everything that hitsme in life.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Yeah, that's what we do.
That's what we do, yeah that'swhat we do.
That's what we do.
Yeah, it's the joy of being anentrepreneur.
Speaker 3 (55:25):
Jessica, what a great combo.
I hope that the audience enjoysyour conversation.
I hope that they don't throwthings at me when they see me
out, as you know, as this guy.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
I hope they do, I just think it would be
entertaining.
Speaker 3 (55:41):
Well, if they do, I will duck and dodge and navigate
that too.
Speaker 1 (55:43):
That's what you do, right.
Speaker 3 (55:46):
We'll definitely want to have you back and, if I can,
get Mark to actually work alittle bit and show up for the
show.
It is a challenge, but what agreat conversation.
I appreciate you coming inCongratulations on the success
of your business.
If people need to get a hold ofyou or want to look you up, how
do they do that?
Speaker 1 (56:04):
Verdant-studiocom.
Speaker 3 (56:06):
Which how you spell that.
Speaker 1 (56:08):
V-E-R-D-A-N-T V as in Victor.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
The dash mark.
Speaker 1 (56:14):
And then the dash mark, and then studio
S-T-U-D-I-O.
Okay, singular Dot com.
Yes, got it.
That was really difficult itwas.
Speaker 3 (56:27):
But you know you pull it deep there.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
You got to be clear okay, gotta be clear with folks.
You know yes, uh, yeah, that'show, that's the best way to get
ahold of me excellent.
Speaker 3 (56:32):
And then you also are , you're involved with women in
entrepreneurship.
I mean, what's that look like?
Speaker 1 (56:38):
I mean as far as like formally, yeah, so I am uh, I
founded the the urban landinstitute's women leadership
initiative here Initiative herelocally and highly involved in
the Urban Land Institute'sgrowth of that and I'm in all
sorts of other women empowermentthings as well.
But that's the most accessibleone here locally and I can join
(57:03):
in on those right no, no, youcan't.
I'm out to.
I can join in on those right no.
Speaker 4 (57:08):
No, I'm out, I'm out.
Speaker 3 (57:09):
Okay, well, hey, it's been so good to have you on the
show.
Let's do it again I love it.
And keep going and think alittle bit more and do some more
dealings before you acquireanother company.
I will, I will, okay, perfect.
This has been another fantasticepisode of Big Talk About Small
Business.
Enjoy having Jessica Hester onthe show.
We'll see you next time, folks.
Speaker 1 (57:28):
All right, thank you, eric.
Speaker 4 (57:30):
Thank you Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big
Talk About Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to our website,
wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscomand click on the ask the host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
(57:53):
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk About Small
Business and be sure to headover to our website to read
articles, browse episodes andask questions about upcoming
shows.
If you are a mother or you have a family and you're
a female, figuring out howyou're going to manage the
motherhood piece with theentrepreneurship piece.
It is extremely time consuming.
Even if you own a successfulbusiness and you have a lot of
support staff under you, you'reconstantly thinking about your
(00:20):
business.
You're constantly trying tomake changes or run things or
put out fires mostly put outfires.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Hi everybody.
Welcome to another episode ofBig Talk about small business.
Mark Zweig has failed me todayand has decided to not show up
for the show.
He's got more important thingsto do in life than to come on to
Big Talk, but that's okay.
I'm here.
I know for most listenersMark's the favorite.
(00:55):
I'm just kind of the guy on theside.
I'm his co-host, but anyway,I'm going to do my best here
today.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I have faith in you.
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Thank you.
The good news is, though, Ihave an incredible guest with us
today.
Her name is jessica hester, andshe owns a studio, an
architectural firm, here out offayetteville.
Is it in fayetteville?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
no, it's in rogers.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
It's in rogers, northwest arkansas, uh design
studio, architectural and designfirm called Verdant Studio.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I'm almost doing as good as Mark.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
You're doing so good.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, mark is so much more prepared than I am, which
is a kind of a half lie.
But anyway, jessica, welcome tothe show.
Thank you, it's great to haveyou here.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Glad to be here.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, I appreciate your time, so tell us a little
bit about Verdant Studios.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, so I founded Verdant Studio by myself, on my
laptop, on my couch and diningroom table.
About 10 years ago.
We're going to have our 10-yearbirthday this summer and it's
been a wild ride.
It's been a wild ride, it'sbeen a wild ride.
So the first five years wereall just kind of organic growth,
(02:10):
like really just normal uhdoing stuff, and it was just an
architecture firm and I was thearchitect and had some help, um,
and then at year five I boughtanother architecture firm you
acquired another acquiredcompany.
Speaker 3 (02:25):
I acquired another firm.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Wow, it was quite the adventure.
We had a major embezzlement.
We didn't talk about thisbeforehand, but we had a major
embezzlement, covid.
All the things happened in 2020.
That was your 2020.
Wow, I got an MBA in educationin 2020.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
So you're almost an attorney now for yourself.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
For sure, and I've definitely like paid a year's
salary of of an attorney.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
No doubt, get it yeah .
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Um and so after after 2020, we made some changes and
um, we, we, uh.
One of the nice things, one ofthe silver linings about that
whole experience, is we wereable to kind of return to our
kind of origins and we were ableto keep some of our acquired
staff, which are fantastic, andstill with me and some clients
(03:19):
and then so at that point wewere about 20 people I'm really
big and then over the lastcouple of years, we've started
to be more strategic aboutthings and we're down to about
seven.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Kind of niched down a little bit, you got in your
lanes right, basically.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
We're figuring it out .
And then, last year I had ababy.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Uh-oh.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
So that really changed things.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
It does.
Yeah, yeah, Babies changethings.
It did.
They're so little, but theychange so much.
You know they do.
They're little and big at thesame time.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Very much, yes, little package.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Big experience.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
That's right.
That's right, man.
So the whole acquisition thing,so that was I mean.
You were in business for aboutfive years then.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I was, and then you decided to acquire this other
company, which is a prettysignificant decision, and then
you got the joyful experience ofintegrations.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Oh boy.
Yeah, it was something else.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
It was something else .
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Would you do it?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
again.
Nobody's ever asked me that, ohman, would I do it again?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
that's why I'm such a great interview host, you know.
That's why people love me morethan Mark of course, obvious,
that's obvious.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Um, I would do it again.
I would do it again if it wasthe right fit in the right
timing.
Yeah, and the circumstances andstars align.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
So maybe not that specific deal.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
I would never do that deal again Right.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
But you would do another acquisition again,
potentially.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, I would potentially do another
acquisition.
I would also go the other way.
I would sell if it became theright thing.
So I'm really open.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
You would become acquired.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, I would become acquired and loop into something
bigger if that made more sensefor the future of the firm.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
So for our listeners out there that maybe they have a
business or whatever, butthey're thinking about an
acquisition, what would maybethree top points that you would
give?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Oh, okay, hire a very good accountant and do forensic
bookkeeping before you run theacquisition.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
So actually really genuinely do due diligence.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Yes, and don't just trust their documents, like make
sure they open their books andthat you have accounting access
to them and you have a forensicaccountant, not just some, you
know not, you're like dad'sbrother, you know brother or
something.
Sure, a real forensic CPA andaccountant.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Okay, that's good, that's really good advice.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Second point Second point would be make sure that
your motives are aligned withthe motives of the team that
you're acquiring and that theculture is the right fit.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
So a cultural value alignment.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, so I I heard recently that in acquisitions,
culture is the number one thingthat kills deals, um, and and
going through a process, um,almost like a strategic planning
effort with the new team andand your current team, um
leadership.
If it's a big acquisition, um,but the whole team.
If it's a smaller acquisition,but the whole team.
If it's a smaller acquisition,ahead of time how do you?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
how do you do that?
How do you do the motives?
Speaker 1 (06:31):
I often hire a third party for that kind of exercise.
So somebody who doesspecifically leadership,
training and strategic planning,come in and run some exercises
with both both the groups, tomake sure that your culture is
going to be aligned, got itbasically interviewing all the
staff members and talk aboutvalues and ambitions, talents,
capabilities, processes,processes, yeah, third point
(06:55):
Third point oh, those were twogood ones.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
I know they were really good.
I'm going to keep going onpoints until you're exact.
No.
Third and final.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Third point is and I would say most people are not
going to deal with this, butthis is the lesson that I
learned be very aware of thestaff, the staff you're bringing
on, and if they have uhstrategic access to either your
processes or your finances, makesure they're fully vetted and
insured.
Insured.
Yeah, so you can buy insuranceto help protect you from fraud
(07:31):
and other things Okay, got you.
Not key people.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
But it's more of a protection insurance for if they
are really just not people ofintegrity.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Wow so like a risk insurance kind of thing
Interesting Is that a specificlike acquisitional insurance.
No, you can get it at any pointin your business, yeah, man, I
tell you, speaking of insuranceman, it drives me nuts, dude.
Like I'm telling you like someof the most challenging things
in my business career have beenaccounting, legal, and now
(08:03):
insurance is a close third man.
It is so confusing they I meanit's just like it's the
greasiest business industry thatI can get.
I mean you can't get your handson anything.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yeah, well and when you and when you finally need it
yeah, oh, there's alwaysexcuses, oh yeah, no, no, no, we
don't do that.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
I mean it's, it's insane, it is absolutely insane.
You know, nobody likes to, to,to be accountable and own
responsibility anymore.
You know, it's like a it's afinger pointing nightmare which
keeps getting attorneys paid.
You know, you know,congratulations, yeah, I know
Right.
I mean, you know, and it'sfunny like there's real quick on
this.
Like I was talking to anattorney about a year ago and I
(08:43):
was like hey, what are you goingto do when AI takes all your
jobs?
They're like we're not worriedabout that and I'm like like
how's that?
And he's like we'll passlegislation to protect.
I'm like that's a, that's areally great point.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, they will, yeah , they totally will.
So, will the architects, by theway.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Oh, a hundred percent .
Yeah Right, congratulations onthat too.
Right, the rest of us?
You know, we're all you know,we're all screaming at that no,
we're really not.
But the all right.
So one thing just tell us realquick, what does your firm do?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Yeah, so Verda is an art and architecture firm.
One of the lovely things thathappened in 2020 is I brought on
an artist.
His original title was directorof visual thinking.
Now he is director ofplacemaking, which means that we
(09:32):
are able to do much more thanlike technical architecture.
We're not just designingbuildings, we're creating places
.
Okay, and so we bring him in tohis background is in
architectural scale, sculpture,art, but he does things like art
, master planning, wayfinding,creative placemaking is all
about creating authenticity andspaces where it doesn't
currently exist.
So think about locally, thinkabout like 8th Street Market and
(09:57):
how there's a layer of kind ofrawness and interestingness, and
that's because there's so manylayers of placemaking.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Somebody at some point was thinking about this
yes.
You know, is the ultimate apexof architecture.
Is it like to create Zen andNirvana in a space?
Speaker 1 (10:15):
MapUp's, not my game.
Okay, cool, yeah, all right,that's just me.
No, and we try to designwithout ego.
What we're trying to do isreally give our clients what
they need.
We're here to serve them,whether that's functionally or
financially, timeline, all thosethings.
We're a service industry asmuch as we are anything else.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Right, and so I think what the end, anticipation or
objective is that, like yourclients, patrons, whoever's
visiting whatever space, I meanthey have an experience, right,
there's something that theyleave with and it's memorable,
subconscious, and all that typeof stuff, right?
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Nailed it.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
Yeah, I mean I'm an excellent interviewer.
Again, I mean I'm just it'samazing.
So, hey, we were talking beforelike kind of what we're going
to discuss today, and you knowthere's one thing that you have
a lot of passion in right, andthat's women in entrepreneurship
, women business leaders, right,and so I think that you know, I
really want to dig into that.
So what does that mean to you?
(11:20):
Uh, for, like, if there's alistener out there that is
female, that is looking to getinto entrepreneurship, I mean
what's you know, tell us alittle bit about your experience
with that and what this meansto you and what's important
about that.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Um, so I'll start with my experience with it.
Um, I, I started, I co-foundedmy first firm when I was 26
years old.
I co-founded my first firm whenI was 26 years old.
I was living in Georgia and Iwas in a town that didn't have a
lot of architects, and so Ifound another one and he hired
(11:54):
me to be just a designer onstaff.
That lasted six weeks and he'slike I think you should be a
partner, and so we just did it,we just jumped in together and
we we created a firm, the thetwo of us and, uh, I did it
because I didn't know any better.
(12:16):
Right, like I was totally naiveto the amount of risk I was
taking yeah and I I honestlydidn't even learn the amount of
risk I was taking until COVIDhit and we were dealing with all
those struggles.
Really, everything from I guessthat was like 2013 until 2020
was a pretty uphill or downhill,I don't know.
(12:39):
Positive.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
It was pretty positive.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
And things change.
I sold my ownership in thatfirm.
I moved back to northwestarkansas because my family's
here, I, um, I was born here and, um, I started brilliant studio
because I didn't know anybetter.
Um, I've always owned a firmand my, my parents are
entrepreneurs and so they'vealways just said own, own and
own and operate business, evenif it's kind of in the
(13:04):
background.
So you have the tax break andso I kind of I just started it.
I really wasn't doing much, Iwas helping with some like
bathroom renovations and justreally mundane things, and it
took off.
And so my experience and storyis one of not knowing the fear
(13:25):
that's involved in that and alsonot feeling like I had a lot of
risk.
I was young enough that Ididn't need a big paycheck, I
didn't have a family to support,I didn't have a mortgage, I
rented a small apartment and Ihad support and I had a support
system around me support systemaround me.
(13:47):
I know it would be differenttoday if I was like okay, how
are we going to?
Like, I contribute financiallyto the, to our wellbeing and our
livelihood as a family?
What happens if I don't makeany money for six months or a
year.
So what I, what I tell peoplenow is there's a math version,
right, there's a math version ofsaying get your finances in
order, save, have six months ofyour life saved away in case you
(14:10):
need it.
There's the spreadsheet version.
There is then the emotionalversion of making the decision,
and that is do I feelcomfortable?
Have I done the market research?
Do I feel like I have a productor an idea that is market ready
and viable?
Have I run the tests?
I think starting a business isall about running the
(14:31):
experiments, and if you're ableto do it as a side hustle,
depending on what it is, as inthe night, and you're making,
hopefully as much money as youmake in your day job, or close
to it, close to it, then you can.
You can take the jump and andhopefully, feel comfortable
about it.
Um, that's that's kind of how Idescribe entrepreneurship.
Now, that's whether you're aman or a woman, it that it
(14:55):
doesn't matter.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Right, it's just the reality.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
That's just the reality of starting a business.
I, in my opinion, um, the otherside of it is if, if you are a
mother and or you have a familyand you're a female, figuring
out how you're going to managethe motherhood piece with the
entrepreneurship piece.
It is extremely time consumingand you have a lot of support
(15:21):
staff under you.
You're constantly thinkingabout your business.
You're constantly trying tomake changes or run things or
put out fires mostly put outfires and so being prepared for
creating balance in that is areal challenge.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
So would you say then , like the big difference, I
guess, in male and femaleentrepreneurship in a way, is it
is about the motherhood piece,or is there, is there more to it
?
Is there something before,preliminary, before that?
Yeah what's the what's thewhat's the other part.
I mean before we jump into yeah, yeah, good question.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
I think even before you have children and a family
there's.
It's different for womenbecause, largely because of
network, I think, okay so somuch of business is built on who
you know um, even in today'sworld yeah and getting in the
room, being in the space withthe people who are making
(16:20):
decisions about money, aboutfinancing, about purchasing and
cap, like all the.
All of those decisions are oftenlargely men and they often have
a network and and getting inthat network requires you to to
participate in things that arealso largely men.
You know, golfing and huntingand fish all those things that
are typically male dominated.
(16:43):
All those things that aretypically male dominated.
So learning how to navigatethat, those relationships, in a
way that is strategic andeffective, could be a real
challenge as a woman.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
You know, it makes me think like a lot of that has to
do, or maybe a good portion ofit has to do with, like just the
historical makeup of it, right?
I mean like, if I mean that'skind of the yeah where where
it's happened, because there wasobviously many decades, you
know centuries, I guess youcould even say, if you go back
even further to where it was amale dominated industry or just
(17:22):
reality yeah right, but you know, mean, I think that obviously
there's been a tremendous amountof progress, right, and there's
been a lot of champions, anddefinitely a lot of female
champions, that have brokethrough those networks as
reestablished, right.
Do you think that today, likeit's, it's, it's evolved enough,
or do we still have a long waysto go, do you?
I mean, where do you think thatbalance is?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
I think we still have some room to go, but I think
it's actually going to.
I think it's going to solveitself.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I think, generationally, as our,
certainly, as our children, butmaybe even as, like, the next
generation comes on, I thinkit's actually going to solve
that gender gap even more.
There's actually some researchrecently that we've spent so
much energy, uh, impacting thewomen in our, in our lives, in
(18:11):
our country, that our boys arebeing left behind, and so I
think balance is reallyimportant.
Um, and I don't know that wefigured that out as a teacher,
yet I know, you know, as amillennial, that my experience
has been very gendered and notalways in a positive way.
(18:34):
Okay, my first internship I hadwhen I was in undergraduate
school and it was towards theend of my schooling and I had
gotten into grad school.
I'd gotten into one of the bestgrad schools in the country.
I was super excited about it.
I walked in to tell my bosswhich, by the way, the firm was.
(18:54):
I think there were three womenin a 30% firm and I was one of
them.
Yeah, and I walked in to tellmy boss about it and, as I was
telling him, the owner of thefirm heard the conversation and
he asked me in this bullpen, youknow, set up right, open office
, set up.
My boss was extremely excitedfor my, my opportunity to go to
(19:18):
grad school.
The owner of the firm said well,why would you do that?
And I said oh, it's going to beincredible.
I going to get an incredibleeducation.
He goes, but your place is inthe kitchen, are?
You serious and I had workedfor him for three years um, I
don't know, I mean that's insane, so yeah I mean those, those
things were still happening.
Now I've never I haven't had anexperience quite that yeah
(19:40):
impactful or demeaning sincethen and it's been 20 years
since that happened- yeah.
But it is so.
I think it is getting better.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
I don't think it's perfect.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Right sure.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
But I don't know that it ever will be.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, yeah, it's like we have a, there's a pendulum
swing going on.
I mean I think it's like theway everything is right.
You look at supply chain orwhatever you know, I mean Right,
everything is right.
You look at supply chain orwhatever you know.
Yeah, right, just for you knowrecent topics.
But I mean like it, you knowwhere does that balance hit?
And I mean I think you're right, it's just going to figure
(20:15):
itself out.
But I feel like that, you know,I mean I can testify just as a
male, right, I mean there's, youknow, my experience is.
You know I as a male, right, Imean there's, you know my
experiences, you know, I wouldsay that if I went back to when
I was much younger, maybe 20years ago, I think that there
was a little bit more cleardifference, but today it seems
like that it's it's.
It has progressed, you know,and and um, you know that's just
(20:40):
insane, I can't, I mean I'mhaving trouble getting past what
that dude said.
I know it's just like that'slike you know, I mean that's
insane that that happened in2000s.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
That's craziness.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
It is crazy.
But you know, the thing that itdid do was it fueled me to
never want to work at an officelike that, which is why I give
him a lot of credit.
Honestly, if I saw him on thescreen I'd be like, hey, thanks,
man.
Your very inappropriatebehavior fueled me to start my
own company because I reallywanted to create a culture that
valued everybody and gaveeveryone space to be the person
(21:14):
that they wanted to be andsupport them.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
That's fair man, I like that.
And so are there other thingslike I mean, like that you would
think you know.
And speaking of the networkstoo, I think that it's um worth
noting.
You know there's that there isthat male history, but then
there's, I think one of thebigger things, or another big
thing to this is just the, the,uh, the aristocratic.
(21:37):
You know, old money, yeah,scenario and and just, or it can
be old money in companies orindividuals, those networks that
I mean like it's almostimpossible for anybody to bust
into yeah you know I bump upinto that a lot, but but on that
side too it's also, I think,that that is evolving quite a
(21:58):
bit.
There's a lot of now, new moneyin the last 20 years, you know,
know, you look at like the, youknow the big tech players, like
I mean, they bust a lot ofbusting up in that.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah Well, and they're creating off like VC
opportunities and other things,that to fund things that are
that would never have beenfunded 20 years ago.
Yeah, yeah.
I don't really operate.
I mean, I I hear about it.
I don't operate in that worldvery much but it is, I think,
that kind of the you scratch myback, I'll scratch yours
mentality Like we.
(22:29):
We do still talk a lot aboutlike the old boys club here in
Northwest Arkansas and it it is.
It's gotten better.
even in the last 10, the 10years I've been back here I've
seen it improve greatly and it'snot just in like finance and
money, because I think that'sdefinitely happening, but even
in, like you know, at the citylevel just trying to get a
(22:50):
project permitted, things likethat it used to be so much
different and now that, becauseof our growth, they've had to
put so much structure in place,and I think that translates to a
lot of businesses where youknow, you used to walk into the
bank and do a handshake deal,and now there's just too much
structure in place and so theythey can't be as um one-sided as
(23:11):
they should be.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Yeah, no, I mean, and I think that's encouraging.
I think that's encouraging forentrepreneurs, new entrepreneurs
, I mean, like the there's waysto.
You know, like you mentionedthe bc right that all that stuff
, a lot of that stuff, there's alot of new financing, new
startup, there's new capitalopportunities.
That I remember whenever I wasyoung trying to get a business
going, I didn't even know aboutthem back there, weren't
anywhere there.
(23:33):
I mean, it wasn't happeninganywhere around here.
But it feels like that theyoung startup companies have a
little bit more options yeah,you know, and they know about it
too.
Yeah yeah, you can go hunt forit and you can get meetings and
you can learn and reallyaccelerate pretty rapidly if
you're digging your heels in.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, and you have a good idea and you're willing to
work hard.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yeah, I remember trying to sit down in a bank
when I was like 22, and I wastalking to this loan officer at
a bank I don't remember who itwas or which bank, but it was
like the most intimidating thing.
They're asking questions I hadno idea about and I left there
without any kind of option.
You know, I just felt like thatwas it?
That one person, that oneanswer, you know, and it was
(24:20):
really discouraging, but, toyour point, it fueled me to just
do it my daggum self and justgo make some sales, and that's
really where the money's at.
The best financing in the worldis from clients, for sure, and
customers.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
For sure, for sure, if you can make it work that way
, the way that I describe goingto the bank because we have an
operating line of credit andsome other things, and every
time we have to go through thatprocess, I'm like man, I don't
want to get naked again.
Because, that's what it feelslike.
It feels like you're totallyexposing yourself every time you
have to have a conversationwith them.
But that is the systems thatare also helping it be more fair
(24:50):
.
Sure.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
So yeah, how do you question that Before we get into
motherhood?
Is there anything else that,like I mean, you would say that
that's a significant topic inregards to female
entrepreneurship that you wantto communicate to the audience?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I think more women should do it.
I think that the emotional sideoften stops women from taking
the plunge and taking the risk.
I think, just generally, womentend not to be the risk takers
in a relationship or across ourculture, and I would just
empower more women to do it.
Take the risk.
The worst thing you can do isfail, and really is it that bad?
(25:34):
You're going to have a greatstory and you're going to be
able to leverage that experienceinto something else that is
probably going to push youhigher than you were before.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Yeah, that's.
I mean obviously like, what Ilove is kind of defining an
entrepreneur versus aprofessional manager or a really
highly skilled, experiencedperson.
Huge difference, right.
And one of my favoritedefinitions is that they see a
market need and they go to fixthat, but then they take a
(26:03):
significant personal risk.
Yeah.
You know you have to have atleast those two components to
call yourself an entrepreneur.
Now Mark and I get on thissoapbox quite a bit.
A solopreneur is notnecessarily an entrepreneur.
Entrepreneurs are growing.
They're risking Solopreneurs alot of times, just they're
(26:24):
building a job that they put abox around.
They have freedom, but they'renot trying to grow.
They don't want to hireemployees, they want to deal
with sales tax, they want todeal with all this stuff If they
get a big job, which is fine,I'm not knocking a solopreneur.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
We need them all.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
We need them all.
Honestly, if I wasn't anentrepreneur, I probably would
be a solopreneur, you know,because I don't know that I'm
employable anymore.
You know, but it depends on whatthe deal is, you know.
But you know, I think that whenwe talk about that, when you
bring up that term risk, youknow that's a big deal right and
(27:06):
I think that there's a verysmall percentage of just human
beings that take anentrepreneurial approach right,
that will step into that unknownsea of risk.
Um, and you know, and I, and toyour point, like I mean, should
we have more women that havethat, that, that take that step?
(27:30):
You know?
And then how we, how do you,how would you encourage that,
like just as a as a female to afemale, I mean, like, like I
mean, how would you articulatethat it's okay, I understand
it's okay and go for it?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Um, my favorite thing to tell people is if you have
an idea and you've put yourguardrails in place, just do it.
Just do it.
If you need to baby step itright, like do it as a side
hustle to start it off and thenlike inchworm your way into it,
do it that way.
Find a way that works for yourlifestyle, but just do it.
(28:07):
Figure out what that version is.
And if you can just take theplunge and like leave your day
job behind and really dig in,that's even better.
You'll find that your growth isprobably a lot faster if you're
able to give it all your energy.
There's a statistic out therethat actually that women-owned
companies, women entrepreneurs,are far more successful than
(28:28):
male entrepreneurs and malecompanies let me tell you
something like I mean from, fromjust a.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
I mean from my experience, like a, a, a woman
owned, a woman entrepreneur has.
I mean like I, I get like it'spretty intimidating to an extent
because they're I mean whenthey're on something like I mean
it's, it's going to get doneand it's going to get done with
(28:58):
perfection.
I mean I have a lot ofadmiration towards that.
I mean, cause there's a lot ofthings.
I just like I feel like I can'tmultitask very well at all.
I can't.
I'm not quick withconversations, you know.
I mean there's a lot of Wellyou're faking it really well,
then I mean, hey, I am Now I'm areally great liar.
No, I'm just kidding, no, but Imean, but it's.
(29:20):
But they, you know, like myexperience has been like I mean,
it's, you know, and alsothere's a lot of accountability
for some reason.
Like I mean, that's just been alittle bit of my experience,
but I've met some reallyincredibly awesome female
entrepreneurs.
I mean, they bring some grit,that's good.
(29:46):
Yeah, I'm friends with quite afew female entrepreneurs and
we're all just gritty, yeah you,yeah, you're scaring me right
now, you know.
So let's get into motherhoodthough, because that's the,
that's the.
That's one of the things Ithink that we all can absolutely
agree with.
There is a difference I thinkinnately humankind you know from
(30:07):
a father and a mother you knowon, if you're owning a business
and I'm a dad, it's going to bedifferent than if you own a
business and you're a mom.
For sure, right, we can agreewith that 100% yes.
So tell me about motherhood andentrepreneurship, because you
actually know this quite wellrecently, right?
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Yes, yeah, seven months ago.
Yeah, seven months ago, Ibecame a mom.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
That's awesome, congrats.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Thank you.
And we liked out our babieshealthy and sleeps well and eats
well and all the things, soshe's been an easy baby,
comparatively Good.
It was a big change for thecompany, um, and you know I so I
only took two weeks off of ofreal maternity leave and I
(30:55):
wouldn't suggest that for anyonenecessarily, but it's that's
what I needed to do for myself.
Um, part of it was just notwanting things to like my tasks
to pile up yeah um, and feellike I was going to come back to
something that was notmanageable.
And I did.
I actually put a lot of piece.
I hired people to actuallybackfill me while I was gone,
(31:18):
but I just wanted to kind ofstay in the know on it.
So I gradually came back overthree months of leave and that
way just wasn't.
It wasn't as stressful that wayand that was actually
recommended a recommendation ofmy um OBGYN, who's a female, you
know she owns her, her clinic,um, and she said just don't let
(31:39):
it don't, don't let it pile up.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Yeah, so I just start getting back in the groove,
right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
And she says if there's a way to balance you
know, a couple hours a day oftaking care of some things, then
that will help.
Um, so, help you process it.
And also, like you've been inthis, like like grinded out
mindset for years, and then togo from like that to just kind
of like I mean, the first threemonths of a baby's life, they
(32:06):
mostly sleep.
Yeah, um, that's not that forme, that wasn't the time when I
needed to take off work.
I, I needed to take off work.
You know, a couple of monthsago, not not not those first
three months yeah um, but um.
But lots of things change, likephysically, your body's way
different.
You are the lifeblood for yourchild and they do demand a lot
(32:31):
of your time from thatperspective and you're
recovering from a major physicallife event.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Yeah, you know, I think one thing you said right
in the beginning was aboutpreparing the company for your
absence, right?
You know, I think any businessowner can like, I mean, if we
really think about it, if I waslike, okay, I'm going to be out
for three months, two months amonth, two weeks, right,
whatever it might be, like Imean, if I'm preparing for that,
(32:59):
like that's why I don't takevacations, really, yeah, but
what if?
You did, I know exactly.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
That's what's.
That's what's stressful for meto think about that.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
So there's what did you do to prepare?
So luckily you know you'repregnant and you got lots of
time.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yeah, I mean there's some clues, Something's coming.
You got many months to figureit out.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
One of the primary things I did was I hired some
help to come into the companyand I trained them on some of my
key tasks, and this is well inadvance.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yeah, this was like months in advance of delivering,
yeah, okay, and that they wereable to come in and take over
some really primary things,especially the one of my biggest
roles is client communication,okay, and just maintaining that
relationship relationship, andthey were able to do that.
For the most part, I will say,you know they'd.
Only it wasn't what if I couldwere to do it different.
Let me put it this way if Iwere to do it different.
(33:56):
I we knew for several years wewere going to try and have a kid
.
It actually took us a while tohave a kid.
I would have done that processa couple of years in advance,
because just having them donewhat process?
Hiring those that help.
Oh, okay, wow because they needtime to build relationships
with clients to make them feelcomfortable.
Um, I didn't give them enoughtime to do do it well, um, and
(34:22):
so we actually lost one of ourreally big clients.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Yeah, that was on leave, yeah it, I mean.
I mean honestly, like we allknow, right, like relationships
are that's it that's, that's,that's it right.
And then to you know but?
But when you're talking aboutthat, it presents to me like a a
financial struggle in a way,because I mean it's hard to like
.
You're still dependent upon thebusiness yeah right, it's not
(34:45):
like you're riding an 80 profit,unless maybe you are and you're
just I know I'm not okay, cool,I just clarified that because I
was going to say do you haveany positions open for partners?
yeah, but, uh, but you gottahide, like what you're talking
about is adding additionalexpenses to an burden to company
and then doing that for monthsprior to get acclimated for an
(35:11):
extremely significant role.
Right or part of the businesswith relationship management.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
That's I mean.
We're talking about preparingto leave.
That's what it takes.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
That is what it takes .
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Wow, that's pretty serious stuff right there yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
And you know, my husband is also a high-level,
he's an engineer, so he's ahigh-level person in his company
and it wasn't even remotely thesame for him, right, like he it
didn't, he could check in andout of the business in a way
that I couldn't, because he'semployed.
Because he's employed.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
But he also has the client management role.
Okay, but because he wasn'trecovering from major surgery.
You know, dealing with majorbody changes and feeding a child
and all of those things Likeyou.
Just it's like if you have anykind of major surgery, you need
that time in convalescence andhe just was able to do it much
(36:12):
different than I was, and Ithink that you know, just kind
of circling back to preparingfor it, he didn't have to
prepare for his absence the waythat I had to prepare for my
absence.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
Well, the reality of this is like it's.
You know, he's obviously busyand has a lot of change going on
, right For sure.
But I think what you'rearticulating, that I'm kind of,
you know, having a little bitmore awareness about, is like
he's probably going to feel welland normal yes, exactly, and
(36:51):
there's a huge difference withthat.
Totally, if you get sick or yougot the flu or whatever, like
you're, you're down likephysically, yeah dude, it's hard
to do anything right, right.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
And my point in that is that male entrepreneurs are
never going to experience unlessthey have major surgery of some
kind.
They're really never going toexperience that level of
physical change.
And you know, especially if anymom has any kind of postpartum
depression or anxiety or any ofthose things that just your
(37:23):
hormones create, you're justnever going to understand that
and that's not good or bad, itjust is yeah, right um, and so,
thinking as a as a woman, as awoman owner, how do you manage?
just the maternity leave pieceis extremely challenging and it
does cost a lot of money.
Um, but I I don't know thatthere's any other way to do it
(37:47):
unless you and I don't have apartner.
If I had a business partner, itwould be different.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
No, that's very true.
I mean, you know it's man, Itell you, like not to jump onto
another topic, but having havinga business part, like you
experienced that, like you hadone in the beginning, now you're
rolling solo right.
Um, there is a difference inhaving that person that and it's
kind of like a marriage right,like we are, we together are
committed.
(38:12):
You know, like in a marriagethat the bills get paid, kids
get taken, you know all thislife gets taken care of.
Same thing in business and beingable to lean on somebody and
tell them a need or have adifferent perspective of
somebody that's really investedin the outcome and that's
dependent, I mean somebodythat's really invested in the
outcome, totally, totally, andthat's dependent.
I mean that's a huge deal.
And so I always encourage folkslike if they ask me, would you
(38:34):
do?
You know, because I have peoplecome to me that never started a
business and they're like, whatdo you think about partnerships
?
I mean, should I have a partner?
Because they hear the horrorstories of getting kicked out.
I'm like man, listen, like it's.
You know, there's a lot, a lotof benefit to having a partner.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
I agree it actually this whole experience.
I've been having conversationsabout bringing a partner on.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
It brought some additional light to the need
right.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah, well, you know, and we've had one kid.
If we ever want to have anotherkid, are we going to?
Am I trying to do it the sameway?
I don't know.
Maybe what I've proven tomyself is I ran that experiment
and it didn't work as well as Ithought it would work.
Um, and I would just need moretime with with any help and but,
but is that person come on as apartner and they, you know,
(39:21):
does that help solve some of thefinancial burden and some of
the other things?
Um, so all of that has come outof this experience.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Yeah, and you know, with a partner as well, like
it's, it's, I would say, andtell me if you agree.
But it's about having somebodyemotionally connected to the
business right that you knowlike part of I can only imagine
like but part of you preparingto leave for this business right
and you hire people, you gotsome tactical things taken care
(39:51):
of and even if you did it,absolutely perfect and you felt
like everything's running itsship, but there's still this
emotional burden that you'refeeling like there's a fear.
There is a fear right thatsomething significant is going
to happen or I'm going to lose asignificant client, because
it's hard to trust anybodythat's not very much invested in
(40:14):
that business.
Like it's the wake up at 4 amworried about it.
So you go ahead and get up andyou start working before workday
starts, because thatrelationship is so critical.
It's hard to pay somebody andhave that type of fear.
Folks that are employed justdon't have that fear.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
They don't, and we don't want them to.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Right sure.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
They don't make enough money for that.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
No, no, no 100%.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
But having somebody with skin in the game, both
financially and the financepiece, often creates the
emotional piece.
But who's bought into thevision, who's bought into the
success and who knows that ifthey're successful they'll reap
a financial reward from that,makes all the difference it does
and it's it's hard to you can'treplicate it with an employee
(41:03):
hardly, I mean occasionally.
You find like the perfectemployee, that's like I'm really
bought in and I don't want, Idon't want the responsibility of
partnership.
But I'm going to do all thethings, but I don't.
I've never had that necessarilyhappen.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm empathizing a little bit
with your preparedness for this,and, but you, even though you
did prepare and you did takeyour two weeks which is not very
much at all, but you know butlike that, you were still the
one carrying the burden of thebusiness, yeah, even even if you
weren't actually working thatday, right those days.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
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Speaker 3 (41:56):
So what else is involved in motherhood?
I mean now, okay, so we talkedabout the event of having the
baby and the preparednessbeforehand.
Yeah, what about coming back?
And now you're a mom?
Right, you left the business,not necessarily a mom with a
baby, but now you're coming back.
(42:20):
Is there a difference there?
Speaker 1 (42:22):
I mean Absolutely Okay yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Stupid question interviewer.
No, of course there's adifference there.
I mean Absolutely Okay, yeah,stupid question interviewer.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
No, there's, of course there's a difference.
Yeah, yeah, the biggest I thinkthe biggest like physical
difference is just time.
My time is just so different.
You know where I used to wakeup.
So this is.
This happened yesterday.
I woke up at 5 am.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
Perfect.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Expecting to get a couple hours of work in before
the baby woke up and we had todo all the school routine and
all daycare stuff.
She woke up at like 5.15.
What?
What is she thinking?
Instead of getting those fewhours of work in that I really
needed to do to prepare for it,I had a project interview
yesterday morning.
You know I just took care of mykid, but you know it works out.
Speaker 4 (43:11):
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
I was talking to my husband last night.
I'm like you know, I could havespent two more hours on it, but
would it have been a betterinterview?
No, the interview was great.
The team did what I asked themto do.
They were totally prepared andready for it.
I spent 30 minutes before theinterview thinking about what I
was going to say and that's allI really needed.
So you do start to realize,like maybe I don't actually need
the level of, maybe I don'tneed to worry about it as much,
(43:43):
and some of that comes with justtime and having some team
behind you to pick up somepieces.
If I was a solopreneur, thatwould have it would have been an
absolute catastrophe.
Actually, I would have justwalked in and been like hey,
chris, my husband, you have toget up.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Yeah, sorry.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Sorry, I've got to go do this thing, so you're now
getting up at 5am, even thoughyou were up with her at one.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter what you have to
do today.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
He is definitely as much a part of the business as I
am most days, so the time thingis really different.
You know, the evenings there'salways a three-hour window where
we're just being parents andtaking care of the house and
being normal humans likeeverybody else.
But then, you know, eighto'clock hits and we're often
(44:25):
laptops and trying to get a fewthings done before the night
ends.
So your schedule really shifts.
I think that's one of thebiggest things.
You just shift your time towork in different windows.
So that's a physical kind ofpiece of it.
I think that the emotional pieceis you just don't want to Like.
(44:52):
I just don't want to spend 80hours a week grinding it out at
the company anymore.
I want to spend 40 hours a weekstrategically doing the things,
the high level, high valuethings I need to be doing.
And then I want to spend thoseother 40 hours with my family.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Yeah, yeah, that's fair man.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
I mean, and I think that can impact that, that
impacts dads too, right, totally, you know.
But but is there, like you know, I don't know, man I like, I
see in my experience, um, youknow, with my wife, particularly
like she, she thinksdifferently as a mom than I do
think as a dad, specificallyrelated with the kids, right,
(45:28):
you know, um, and, and, and I'llbe the first to admit there's,
it's, it's another level ofwhere my natural thinking occurs
, like I do a lot, I don't do alot of things cause I'm not
thinking like she's thinking,you know.
Yeah.
I mean, have you had thatexperience at all?
Or thinking like she's?
Speaker 1 (45:46):
thinking you know, yeah, I mean, have you had that
experience at all?
You know, I haven't had it thatmuch, but I've seen it.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
Maybe your husband's just better than me.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
My husband is amazing .
Speaker 3 (45:54):
I mean, he sounds awesome, he gets like all the
gold stars.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
He is A lot of days he's just, he's thinking about,
like, did we wash the bottlesand get the things?
Yeah, and he's doing that andbut.
But I will say I think that'sunusual yeah not just because my
husband is that way, but thebusiness was my first baby, true
, um, and so it's been reallyhard to kind of, even though my
(46:18):
I will always choose my actualbaby.
My business like no confusionthere.
There there's been a bit of alike emotional transition and
it's different.
I know that it's justmotherhood has been different
for me because I had thebusiness.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
You know, and also I think that it sounds like your
husband too.
He probably supports you a lotwith your business.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
He does.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
Right and so it's, you know, having a real baby or
a physical baby, a human baby.
But you had this babybeforehand and I mean, if he was
supportive and engage with youon that and helping in kind of
like your you know your partnerin a way on that.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
Totally like a silent partner in many ways yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
Yeah, it's like he probably can pick up on some of
the pressure that you'reundergoing with this additional
human baby that's in the picture.
Speaker 1 (47:10):
Absolutely and is able to help navigate that
Absolutely, and you know wereally try.
He's got an incredible careeras well, so we try to support
each other in that effort.
I would not relate ourexperience to other partnerships
where somebody owns a business,but I would not relate it to
(47:31):
anybody who's got two employees.
It's just been so different.
From that perspective, I'vewatched some of my team members
have children and the women thathave babies on my staff.
Their relationship tomotherhood is completely
different than mine.
They're doing what your wifedoes, Right.
(47:51):
They're always thinking abouttheir kid.
They're, you know, like they'rethe primary caregiver.
They're doing all the things.
They're worried about stuff.
Speaker 3 (48:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
They react to things that happen in a much different
way than I do.
They just think about itdifferently, and I just want to
be clear it's not that they lovetheir baby more than I love my
baby.
It's just we approachmotherhood really differently.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
You know, honestly, Jessica, I don't know if this is
.
I'm not trying to be apsychologist and I'm not
licensed.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I do love some therapy, I do too.
Big fan, big fan.
Speaker 3 (48:26):
I love it too.
You know one of my, my bigthing I want to have a
psychologist on this show you?
Speaker 1 (48:31):
oh, I have one for you, do you yes?
Speaker 3 (48:32):
connect me afterwards , I will.
She, she's awesome.
Okay, I love it.
I love fantastic psychologists,people that help me think in
about how I think, but anyway,yeah, but what I was thinking of
when you're talking about that,uh, that difference is like
maybe it has something to dowith the fact that you're
actually risk tolerant totally,totally, yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
No, I have like, like , my relationship with risk is
really unusual, for you knowit's, it's the same as every
other entrepreneur.
Speaker 3 (49:02):
Yeah, yeah and so yeah, there we go, I figured it
out.
You did.
I'm a genius, oh my gosh didyou just make 700?
No, I wish.
I mean I need to.
Don't wait, let me 700, I'llbill you okay but I mean, but
there's something to be saidabout that, right.
Like I mean, you're kind ofapproaching it's almost like
from the way you say like youapproach motherhood in a in kind
(49:26):
of an entrepreneur, in anentrepreneurial way, in a way
yeah, because it's ingrained inme.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
It's yeah it's my process and um, you know, as
long as she's breathing, she'sfine.
Speaker 3 (49:35):
Yeah, right no, absolutely, you know, and it's,
um, you know it's.
It's really an interestingconversation because I think
that there's an awareness youknow from just you know like, as
a male right, and how I'mthinking about life and life
experiences happen.
My youngest, uh, whenever I hadbusinesses Right, but it, you
(50:09):
know, it didn't like like to me.
There was this like Iimmediately shifted into kind of
like this balance mode, like itbecame you know an additional
responsibilities that I had andI just rolled with them and I
just figured out and however Ido, you know, and and and make
those things happen.
Uh, but there was not.
(50:29):
I did not prepare beforehand.
Okay.
Okay, and and I did not have anysort of like, um, you know,
like when the when the baby waswas coming and it was going to
be delivered, like there wasn'ta time period that I felt that I
needed to take off to recover.
Speaker 1 (50:50):
Oh man, yeah, that's.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
Is that bad?
That's bad.
I'm judging you, you should, ohman.
Well, now here's the reality,though I was very present and
inactivated and involved in allthis and helpful, very helpful.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (51:06):
Right, you know, I mean I did a lot.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Did you end up taking it off?
You just didn't plan for it.
Or did you continue to work andyou?
Speaker 3 (51:13):
just, I worked in different, different time slots.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Okay, you adjusted your schedule.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
I adjusted yeah, so I wasn't meaning to communicate,
I didn't care or participate inthe baby care or participate in
the baby.
No, no, I didn't mean that, butI will tell you like there was
not, like no, what it was is,like you know, a week before,
two weeks, as they got closer,right Like I was, you know, I
was working harder and longer toprepare because I knew that I
(51:38):
wouldn't, for whatever timeperiod that I wouldn't have.
But I did not prepare like youdid, I wasn't thinking forward,
I was just rolling and adjustingas it came along and I just
worked longer and harder andkind of ridiculously, in no set
pattern, right.
And then as and I just kind ofgauged day by day, so, is mom
(52:01):
okay, Baby's okay, okay, thenI'm going, okay and I'm close by
and I come back and you know,do this.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
And I have to break and that was in the day where
you couldn't remote work andyeah, it was before all that,
right, yeah, um, would you do itdifferent now?
Speaker 3 (52:18):
I don't think so.
No, I mean because I mean, likewhat happened?
Like here's the reality, like II have a lot of memories of
being around my, my daughter,right During those times.
Like I mean I was absolutely ahundred percent, you know.
Like it, I mean I was, you know, I mean I was the best diaper
change in the world and you know, I mean I was like really good,
(52:38):
really fast, like I mean alwayshad my stuff together, like
there was never a mess.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (52:44):
Yeah, I mean I was so good at it and I you know,
feeding, taking a daycare, youknow, as that started happening,
like you know, giving baths, Imean I was feet, you know all
that stuff, so I mean I wouldn'tdo.
I don't know that I would do itdifferently, because I do feel
like that I was very present andI was helpful.
I guess the point is thatbeforehand I guess I just didn't
(53:09):
think about a bigger time span.
I don't know, it's kind ofweird.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Well, that doesn't really surprise me.
I think that a lot of well.
I think women think about itbecause they know they're going
to have to recover 100%.
Men don't think about itbecause it's all.
You're just adding something in, and especially if you're
already running a business,adding in is nothing.
You're so used to just beinglike okay, I'm just going to
(53:38):
have this extra responsibilityand I'll just you know, I'll
balance it with all the otherstuff that I have going on.
Speaker 3 (53:44):
That's what my mentality was, balance it with
all the other stuff that I havegoing on.
That's what my mentality wasand I think the difference I
mean to point out the differencethere is that you know I wasn't
, you know, personally thinkingabout me being down.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (53:56):
In a way right.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
Right and and physically you're, you're not
really down, although there's alot of there's a lot of research
now about the impact of havingkids on men.
And there is a level ofpostpartum that happens with men
as well now, and so you knowhad you reacted to having a baby
(54:20):
differently.
it might not have worked out aswell, right, If you would have
been somebody who had beenafflicted with some kind of
postpartum reaction, ofpostpartum reaction.
So I think in some ways you gotlucky, but probably also
because you were used to thatlevel of stress and risk and and
the kind of putting out firesand navigating between
challenges, you were prepared.
Speaker 3 (54:38):
You know that's interesting.
Thank you for the psychologylesson.
Now we're zeroed out, right,you me?
I don't okay I don't know youabout the therapy session, but I
mean it is.
It is interesting, though, asan entrepreneur they're like you
.
I think that's something toreally talk about someday is
like the ability to like gettingshot with arrows all day and
(54:59):
you just kind of duck, dodge,totally get hit and take one out
, bleed a little bit yeah, youknow, you just kind of go on,
and that was definitely mymentality.
It just it was another aspect inlife that was coming in and I
just managed it.
Yeah, I just flowed with it.
Yeah.
And I contributed inchampioning it out, like I try
to do with everything that hitsme in life.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Yeah, that's what we do.
That's what we do, yeah that'swhat we do.
That's what we do.
Yeah, it's the joy of being anentrepreneur.
Speaker 3 (55:25):
Jessica, what a great combo.
I hope that the audience enjoysyour conversation.
I hope that they don't throwthings at me when they see me
out, as you know, as this guy.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
I hope they do, I just think it would be
entertaining.
Speaker 3 (55:41):
Well, if they do, I will duck and dodge and navigate
that too.
Speaker 1 (55:43):
That's what you do, right.
Speaker 3 (55:46):
We'll definitely want to have you back and, if I can,
get Mark to actually work alittle bit and show up for the
show.
It is a challenge, but what agreat conversation.
I appreciate you coming inCongratulations on the success
of your business.
If people need to get a hold ofyou or want to look you up, how
do they do that?
Speaker 1 (56:04):
Verdant-studiocom.
Speaker 3 (56:06):
Which how you spell that.
Speaker 1 (56:08):
V-E-R-D-A-N-T V as in Victor.
Speaker 3 (56:13):
The dash mark.
Speaker 1 (56:14):
And then the dash mark, and then studio
S-T-U-D-I-O.
Okay, singular Dot com.
Yes, got it.
That was really difficult itwas.
Speaker 3 (56:27):
But you know you pull it deep there.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
You got to be clear okay, gotta be clear with folks.
You know yes, uh, yeah, that'show, that's the best way to get
ahold of me excellent.
Speaker 3 (56:32):
And then you also are , you're involved with women in
entrepreneurship.
I mean, what's that look like?
Speaker 1 (56:38):
I mean as far as like formally, yeah, so I am uh, I
founded the the urban landinstitute's women leadership
initiative here Initiative herelocally and highly involved in
the Urban Land Institute'sgrowth of that and I'm in all
sorts of other women empowermentthings as well.
But that's the most accessibleone here locally and I can join
(57:03):
in on those right no, no, youcan't.
I'm out to.
I can join in on those right no.
Speaker 4 (57:08):
No, I'm out, I'm out.
Speaker 3 (57:09):
Okay, well, hey, it's been so good to have you on the
show.
Let's do it again I love it.
And keep going and think alittle bit more and do some more
dealings before you acquireanother company.
I will, I will, okay, perfect.
This has been another fantasticepisode of Big Talk About Small
Business.
Enjoy having Jessica Hester onthe show.
We'll see you next time, folks.
Speaker 1 (57:28):
All right, thank you, eric.
Speaker 4 (57:30):
Thank you Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big
Talk About Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to our website,
wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscomand click on the ask the host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
(57:53):
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk About Small
Business and be sure to headover to our website to read
articles, browse episodes andask questions about upcoming
shows.
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