June 4, 2025 • 46 mins
The foundation of a successful business isn't just talented individuals—it's engaged people working in synchronized harmony toward shared goals. In this raw, unfiltered episode, we dive deep into the reality that disengaged business owners inevitably face harsh consequences. As we candidly explore, "If you're an entrepreneur thinking you can be disengaged in your business, you're 1,000% wrong. You will get slapped across the face."
What separates truly excellent companies from mediocre ones? We explore how an obsession with details creates excellence that differentiates businesses from the competition. From perfectly aligned cabinet doors to spotless windows and immaculate furnace filters, this attention to every element combines into a whole culture that customers recognize and value. The question becomes: how do you instill this same passion for excellence throughout your team?
This episode tackles the fundamental 50/50 split in engagement responsibility—half belongs to leadership creating the right environment, and half belongs to individual employees bringing their own desire to engage. We examine practical strategies including committing to growth (rather than lifestyle business models), involving teams in planning, embracing technological change with speed, and conducting collaborative workshops that solve real problems together.
Perhaps most provocatively, we challenge the traditional framing of employee engagement by suggesting the better question might be: "How do employees engage with a company?" The discussion reveals that when individuals approach their work with the right mindset and intentions, they're "rewarded tremendously with experience, money, growth and career."
Whether you're struggling with tech-resistant team members, finding the right hiring approach, or rekindling your own entrepreneurial fire, this episode delivers honest insights from those who've been in the trenches. Subscribe now and join our community of entrepreneurs committed to building businesses where everyone is aligned, engaged, and driving toward excellence.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
So what we're saying here is if you're listening to
this and you're an entrepreneuror you're thinking about going
into entrepreneurship and youthink for one split second that
you can have these be in thisbusiness that you're starting,
you're 1,000% wrong.
You will get slapped across theface, yeah unless you just get
lucky so for everybody who didnot know.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
This is another episode of that big talk about
that small business.
And uh, today we're going totalk about employee engagement
that's a big topic.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Hey, just a reminder to all the listeners, like, why
are we here?
We're here to help theentrepreneur or the aspiring
entrepreneur, you know, to knowabout some of the raw things,
the real things that go on inbusiness and what it really
takes you know it's not fluff,right?
I mean, we're really trying tojust help people that are in the
(01:04):
weeds of it and about to getinto the weeds of it, like give
you a little taste about what'sabout to come.
So maybe some tips that'll helpyou, some little tips, yeah,
some raw experience, yeah, frommyself and yourself that have
been through a little bit of theringer, yeah, and then our
guests that come on and stillare in the ringer.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
And still in the freaking dude in the weeds 67
and a half and I'm still in theringer.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
And just right before the show you go, you said I
look depressed today.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Well, you're never totally depressed.
That was unfair.
Okay, maybe not at your highestenergy level.
Well, you know what it was.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I got like it sucked it out of me.
It was just the amount ofemails and text messages that I
was having to trill through thismorning.
Oh yes, insane.
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Insane.
Listen.
Every day it starts out withproblems, as you've said before.
I mean, this morning Idiscovered, you know,
significant errors in the cashflow forecast for one business.
Okay, significant errors in thecash flow forecast for one
(02:09):
business, okay, um, fortunatelyit it actually.
Um, we have more cash than Ithought we.
Well, that's good.
In the short term, that's agood problem, yeah, but, but
that was one.
And then just like a total lackof understanding about why
we're doing what we're doing andand why it's so essential, yeah
, in the people that have to beresponsible for it.
And then the next thing is Ifind out none of my classes have
been scheduled for nextsemester, and I talk to my
(02:31):
department chair about that, andwe're going through some kind
of conversion of our systems atU of A.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
From UAConnect to Workday Student and he's just
like he was so angry at thescrew-ups and bureaucracy and
paperwork and just veryfrustrated.
Yeah, you know so yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
So how do you, as mark as well I mean, because
you're one of the best I knowjust hammering things out, right
, like, how do you come up withthat?
Like you wake up, you knowthere's problems, you just like
to take care of problems.
Like, yeah, I just deal with it.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I just deal with it.
I'm serious.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Do you have a higher vision as to why you are dealing
with it or you're just freaking?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
higher vision, yeah I don't know, or you just, I mean
, it's what I am, it's what I do, I'm a fixer, okay, that's it,
that's.
I mean, I don't know if there'sany great vision there or not.
You just like to fix things,yes yes, I do, I enjoy fixing.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
No, you do, and I mean like even going back to
like when you used to your homes.
I mean like you would pick outsome pretty, you know, uh,
pretty nasty, nasty, nastyplaces but turn them into
beautiful things and that wassomething I mean you just
enjoyed the hell out of that.
I just put a post.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
You know I'm doing one down the street.
I just put a post post onLinkedIn about that this morning
.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
And basically, you know, what I was saying is that
it takes attention to everysingle detail.
Okay, that's what we do, allright, yeah, every closet is
perfectly painted and refinished.
Every garage floor, every lightbulb, every, every thing is
clean.
Every door closes like it'ssupposed to close and latches
(04:09):
and the cabinet doors are linedup okay, and they'll be.
The beds are weeded and thetrees are trimmed and the power
washing has been done, yeah, andthe the gutters are clean and
the windows sparkle, and so, youknow, at night, we leave every
(04:29):
single light on in the house,every light, and we have the AC
turned below 70 in the summerand the heat turned above 70 in
the winter, and the fireplaceflues operate and the chimneys
have been cleaned.
Okay, and if there needs to be apiece of furniture in an odd
shaped room to show people howit should be laid out, that
(04:49):
furniture is in the place thatit needs to go, and that's how
we sell houses.
Okay, when the inspector comesin, they don't find a dirty
furnace filter and a whateverAll right, it's, it's ready to
go, it's done, it's perfect.
It a whatever All right, it's,it's ready to go, it's done,
it's perfect, it's excellent.
All right, excellent.
It's all about excellence.
(05:11):
It's all about attention todetail.
That's how you build.
You know that business.
That's how we got to bedevelopers of the year.
That's how we got best historicrenovation award.
That's how we got on the inc5000 list of fastest growing
companies during a real estaterecession.
Yeah, it's like it takes anobsession with details and they
(05:35):
all combine into a whole, okay,and that whole is excellent and
that whole is differentiatedover the competition.
Where you go in every otherhouse, it's got 10 million
things wrong with it.
It's like, yeah, but that,forget all the butts.
We don't want to hear yourfreaking butts.
We want to be able to visualizemoving in this thing and it's
(05:57):
perfect and life is beautiful.
Okay, you like that?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
right, I love that.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, painting that canvas of perfection and beauty
and yeah, from the mailbox tothe address numbers on the
mailbox.
I spent 39 for those to get theright ones that are raised and
yeah, you know it's just, it'sso many things are you
calculating your time and doingan roi analysis?
Speaker 1 (06:23):
oh, I them.
Mailbox numbers and all that?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
No, not my time, I just.
My whole thing is how muchmoney do I have in it and how
much do I sell it for?
Yeah, and the time value ofmoney is charged against the job
.
Whether it's put in with cashor it's borrowed, the time value
of the money is a factor.
Yeah, I know every single penny.
I mean I can show you righthere.
(06:46):
You want to see it.
Yeah, I'll show you.
Take a look at that Every day,every amount, down to the penny,
of every single dime.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
And this is what always amazes me that this is
just in your phone notes.
So, like what you're doing,you're in grief man, and you
just write this down as you, asyou go about, right, and that's
how I know I've got every day.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
You're not putting this in quickbooks or anything.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
No, I don't put it in quickbooks, I used to, but I
don't do you send this tosomebody so they can put it in
the books.
No, you just know.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
You're just counting for the total I need it for my
taxes though, yeah, okay, whenit comes down to it at the end.
You know, when you go to sellthis, I mean you got a taxable
gain on it, but you want to showas much cost as you can.
But you see that, yeah, okay,that's pretty detailed, it's
really detailed, every singlepart, okay.
But anyway, it's the obsessionExcellence.
(07:43):
Why do something if you'regoing to do a shitty job?
That's true, okay, why, yeah, I?
So how do we get our employeesto understand that's right,
that's, that's, that's that's a.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
That is because if everybody in the company could
have obsession with somethingyou know, you can tie that to
what they're doing and then thenthe company rises up as a true
excellent company.
Yes, you know, but itabsolutely drives me crazy that
when I can't find what is itthat you're passionate about,
(08:16):
yeah, well that.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I'm glad you brought that up, because here's the
first bit about employeeengagement get the right
employees.
Yeah, they're not all going tobe engaged right, okay, they're
just not.
I mean, there's a variety ofreasons that their whole life
experience, you know, plays sucha big part of it, their
personality stuff they're bornwith.
We don't know, yeah, where itall comes what they've been
(08:40):
taught what they believe.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah, taught what they believe.
Yeah, you know, I think there'sa lot of like.
I've noticed like there's thisvacuum that seems to be getting
more powerful, to be honest withyou, of where folks are just
not.
It's almost like they don'trecognize why they're even alive
.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah, no, I hear what you're saying, you know.
But you know what, though?
If you think about that and I'mnever one one I don't like to
generalize about generations orno, no, no, no, it doesn't
matter, right, but if you thinkback on, like our parents now,
my dad was a and mom they weredepression survivors in world
war ii, right, you know verydifficult hand-to-hand combat.
(09:21):
My dad, first lieutenant,survived, got his, you know his,
his bra is his bronze star andhis his silver star and all that
.
And so they went through a lot,right, and they didn't have it
real easy, right?
So maybe by the time we camealong, we, we saw that they had
(09:44):
the, the sort of metal, they hadthe character to overcome
obstacles.
Yeah, yeah, your dad grew up inCarbondale, illinois.
Yeah, now, I don't know, Inever, we never talked about
what his parents did, butCarbondale is a, is a pretty
poor area.
Okay, my guess is they probablyweren't really well off.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
No, my my dad's dad was a postmaster there you go,
in Carbondale right, sure, buthe was a teacher before, but
he's the first one to graduatecollege.
He served in World War II aswell.
My mom's dad served in the Navyin World War II, was a POW, wow
.
And then he was also-.
Was he in Germany or Japan?
Speaker 3 (10:26):
No Japan, oh that wow .
And then he was what's ingermany, or no, uh japan, oh,
that's terrible.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, no w in japan was beyond horrible, yeah and,
and, and, and he was a mechanic.
And then um, and then he brokehis back doing he was like the,
the uh, the shift leader orwhatever, or the shop leader
head mechanic.
And then um, he was also his.
His parents were coal miners.
Yeah, so he grew up like yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
So the point is, I mean, you think about what some
of those people had to surviveand what they had to do to
transcend that's right.
Those circumstances, yeah, theywere tough, they were
determined surviving, they had amotivation level.
Today people have too much,they mean it's too comfortable,
it is.
(11:06):
It's just like I can't believe.
You know, I saw a deal recently, um, that was all on and it's
always.
I've known this anyway, but itwas like starter homes.
You know what's the averagehome today?
Well, in 1950 it was 900 squarefeet, had two bedrooms, one
bath, and, yeah, what's theaverage new home today?
It's like 2,600 square feet.
(11:27):
Yeah, two-car garage, three orfour bedrooms, three baths.
So much stuff.
Okay, I mean, you can't evenyeah, it costs more, you can't
even compare it.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Okay, why is the expectation?
I have students that graduate,yeah, and go out and buy, buy
something like they go out andthey buy something like that.
I mean it, it.
It's kind of mind-boggling thatthat's where they think that
they should start out andthey're willing to take on that
kind of debt okay, and thatthey're still not that motivated
.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
A lot of them, you know, and it gets pretty
depressing when you haveeverything and then you're still
working and it doesn't seemfair.
It doesn't seem like what areyou working towards?
Yeah, you've already goteverything.
You've already got everythingRight, so now you just want to
chill and then, like, your nextlevel is to not work, and so the
whole mentality becomes on,that's death.
(12:19):
Yeah, it is, and you don'trealize it until you're there.
And then where's your ambition?
Where's your passion?
You know, I guess passion has alot.
It's kind of really a new wordif you really look at it,
because, like we were talkingabout our grandparents, they
never talked about passion.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Who gives?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
a crap about your passion.
You know it's like did you earnor did you not earn?
Can you put food on the tableor did you not?
True, that's it.
And living that and being thatsimple.
You know we were actuallytalking about before, but you
said it's about survival.
It's about, and in order tosurvive, it's about being
excellent.
Yes, right, you have to beexcellent to survive.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
And then you have people like us who we could
survive comfortably right, if wejust did everything that we're
quote supposed to, yeah, butinstead we keep putting
ourselves in situations whereit's like, why did I do that?
Oh my God, I got so much tolose here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like wekeep putting ourselves into a
(13:23):
survival situation, but we havecompetence that we will overcome
because we will do the workthat it takes to get to where
we've got to go.
It's like next week I got togive a seminar at one of the
Walton College deal over here inBentonville.
(13:43):
You know that satellite dealwe've got and it's some kind of
a seminar, but on innovation andmarketing and all.
And you know what I want to say.
I mean, truthfully, I don'tneed that much innovation.
I will do the work of marketing.
That will ensure I will besuccessful Marketing requires a
crazy amount of work.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
It just, it's just Relentlessness.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
It's relentless discipline.
Yeah, you've got to have thediscipline.
And then you do all the thingsthat you know you need to do and
guess what it probably is goingto work out?
I can go out there and look fora magic bullet on something new
.
Yeah, okay, maybe that'll work.
But boy, the odds sure go down.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
That's all I know, and so, like, the question is is
, how do you engage others inyour team to do that?
Because I'll be honest with you, like from my perspective as an
entrepreneur, and and, and, and, and and drives me nuts because
I think that a lot of the teamin my experience not, you know,
just teams in general- not anyspecific yeah, yeah, yeah, not,
you know, just teams in generalnot any specific.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you know, I reallygenuinely have a desire for them
(14:51):
to engage, because it's notabout me.
You want to see them besuccessful, absolutely.
I want to see them be part ofsomething that's bigger than I.
Get that and then they lookaround, they like I did that and
I did it with so and so andsuch and such, and we did that
together.
Like when I look back on on mylife as in career, the best
times of my life were workingwith a group of people of court
(15:14):
and accomplishing accomplishingsomething together, and it's
usually in those times, like youwere talking about, when things
were really hard.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
no, I mean that's.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I mean, that's such a satisfying feeling, it's
actually, when I look back, it'slike the most enjoyable times
in my career.
I know Most rewarding times inmy career.
There wasn't a lot of moneyflying around, there wasn't a
lot of fancy stuff, you know, itwas like just down dirty
working, being excellent,overcoming ourselves, overcoming
(15:43):
the barriers, beatingcompetitors, doing what
everybody said that we couldn'tdo the underdog life, man Right.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
That's where the satisfaction comes in.
100% I know, and you want peopleto experience that because you
understand that's rewardingpsychically, rewarding 100%,
okay, but it also can berewarding for them financially.
Dude, that's the way it paidoff.
That's my experience.
Yeah, anybody that made itthrough that are doing pretty
(16:12):
well, exactly, and moving upRight.
You know, it's like we're notgoing to be able to do any
better for you as an individualif the organization is stuck
where it is.
Yeah, it's not all just amatter of the owner's greed or
not greed.
Yeah, like, how much do I giveback or how much do I not?
(16:32):
It's the organization and whatit creates is what determines
what you can do.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
You know, I think, as we talk about this engaging
employees, I think there's a50-50 here.
Okay, so I do believe thatthere is a responsibility for
myself or for leaders in thecompany and it's not just me,
it's any leader.
Leadership, or if you want tobe a leader in a company, you
(17:00):
need to have engagement.
That needs to be on top of yourmind.
How do we engage the team inthis?
And we can talk about that, butI'd say there's a 50% that we
don't even need to really talkabout.
That is left up to theresponsibility of the individual
to engage them, freaking selvesinto what they're doing Boy.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Amen to that.
I mean, you can't do it foreverybody, no.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
You can try, but there's only so far you can go,
and so as Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
No, you're right, but there is a precedent to that,
though, I think.
Well, it's not necessarily aprecedent, but what makes it
work is the owner's got to beengaged.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, it's not just the.
If the owner's not engaged, howdo you expect the employees to
be engaged?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Mark, I'm going to sit here and say I have been
slapped in the face multipletimes in business and every time
it's about me losing engagementMe too.
I would admit that I get tired,right, or I get lazy.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Or I get distracted.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Or I get pulled into this and I get disengaged with
my own company, or I think thatI maybe or have arrived
somewhere right.
I shouldn't and I don't have todo that yeah I get it, you know
, every time wrong.
You know, just absolutelyslapped across, the karma slaps
you and big time, big time, yeah, yeah, and then, and then, even
if I'm not engaged, it's like alike I'm, you know, it's like
(18:23):
it doesn't mean much to meeither.
Yeah, you know, sure, but whenI get engaged, it's when I get
back into the grind and it'sjust ugly.
But you're right, if you're notengaged, your team's not going
to be engaged in the business.
Like it drifts off to watersyou can't even understand.
Like, how in the hell did itget over there?
Yeah, and then trying to pullit back in is so much hard work.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Oh, it's really hard.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
It's like you slip down the hill and now you've got
to pull it all the way back upjust to get to where you need to
be.
So what we're saying here is ifyou're listening to this and
you're an entrepreneur or you'rethinking about going into
entrepreneurship and you thinkfor one split second that you
can have these be in this,business that you're starting.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
You're, you're a thousand percent wrong.
You will get slapped across theface.
Yeah, unless you just get lucky.
I mean it's possible you couldget lucky, and just this
superstar ends up in your lapand they just do everything.
I have seen a few situationslike that, but again, the odds
are against that.
I mean you can get lucky.
You can walk down the streetand find a thousand dollars
laying there too.
You know what I mean?
I haven't been lucky like this.
Yeah, it's, the odds are not.
(19:33):
It's not gonna happen.
Yeah, I mean yeah.
So I agree with you 100.
So it starts with you beingengaged.
You got to find the rightpeople.
Not everybody is going to beable to do it.
They don't all have thebackground or whatever, due to
their parenting or due to justgenetics, we don't know, we
(19:54):
don't care.
It's just they're not all goingto do it.
That's right.
The problem is so how do youget enough of them who will do
it?
I mean, I do think it startswith when people evidence
themselves as not being engagedin spite of your best efforts
over an extended period of time.
Yeah, but not too extended.
(20:14):
Right, you need to move themoff the team.
Well, that's what?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, that's right.
Pollute other people and youneed to feel the ability.
Like you can only like we'retalking about 50 percent Like
you can only do so much.
You can only engage others somuch.
The other part's left up tothem and you shouldn't feel bad
about that.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah, exactly they don't do it.
It's not your fault at somelevel, Right?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
100% yeah.
So how do we engage the onesthat say, let's say, I am
engaged, I've chosen a decentteam, right, yeah, and you know
you're getting non-engagers offthe team.
Oh, non-engagers are off theteam.
How do we engage the engagers,like, how do we get them to be
more engaged in the company?
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I think number one in my opinion and I doubt you
would disagree with this is you,as the owner manager, have to
commit to being a growthbusiness.
Don't rationalize the fact thatwe're going to stay small but
be successful, right, okay,that's automatically puts a cap
on everything.
That's so true automate.
(21:15):
And there's so many smallbusiness owners that think like
that well, if I can do a milliondollars a year, I make 150 and
I'll be happy with that.
Okay, as soon as that becomesclear to your employees, death,
yeah again.
Yeah, okay, yeah, good luckhaving engaged employees, right,
that's your mentality, right?
So you got to commit to agrowth company.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
And even if you have a company like that and they
might be engaged, the good onesare going to bounce out because
you put a cap on them on theirgrowth level, like the really
shining stars are not going tostick with your company.
Why would you?
Speaker 3 (21:50):
work in a place like that, I wouldn't even consider
it.
No, the moment I discoveredthat in one company I was in, I
got opted out.
Yeah, I had a great job, I wasmaking over $100,000 a year.
I wasn't even 30 years old yet.
Company car, company, countryclub membership yeah, man.
Yet company car, company,country club membership yeah,
man, okay, I mean I, it's justfreaking.
1986 seven.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah, I could have stayed in that, yeah, and just
be disengaged for the rest ofyour life.
Just, it's a, you know, butit's not growing.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
The place isn't growing.
There's only so good.
I'm only gonna go so far yeahyeah, that's in that environment
that's the first.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
What's another way, I think?
Engaging?
Speaker 3 (22:28):
well, I think another way again.
I mean, some of this stuffwe've talked about before, but I
mean sharing in the businessplanning and not making the
business plan a secret.
I mean I think those two kindof go hand in hand.
Like we got to get peopleparticipating, yeah, and what
we're, you know, how are wegoing to accomplish this vision?
Okay, they don't set the vision, by the way.
(22:50):
True, you set the vision Right.
Okay, you set the mission.
Why are you in business?
What are you trying to become?
That's your responsibility asthe owner.
Yeah, but how to get there andthe details and some of the
tasks and all we've got to gettheir involvement in that of the
, the tasks and all we've got toget their involvement in that.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, okay, you know what's what's interesting about
that and at least it's been myexperience, like I've done
pretty well on establishing likea purpose, mission, vision and
stuff you have you strike out abig vision.
Yeah, it's, it's, there's theirread.
My problem is is I don'trevisit it and recast it on a
regular basis, yeah, or asfrequent as I need to.
I don't know that you can, Idon't know that you can beat
(23:30):
that down too much.
Like it should be.
Like I've seen you gotta sellit really well, yeah, but it's
just and everywhere and everynook and cranny.
That's.
That's awesome.
That's like what I think istrue.
Really great branding, yeah,folks, but.
But it's always interesting tome, like if you be cast
everybody's on the same page,you walk out the door.
That might last for about 48hours and then people get
(23:53):
confused again.
It's because you know, andsometimes I get confused with a
vision.
But there's an ability, I think, as an entrepreneur where
you're, you know it's 90% ofwhat you're thinking is anyway,
it's like a natural thing.
You saw it to begin with whennothing was there, and then,
when distractions come in, youcan realign a lot easier, I
think, than maybe some of theteam can.
(24:15):
Yeah, but it's your job Becauseyou see the big picture,
because you see the big pictureand you just hide the
distractions.
But it's your job to come back.
But you've got to understand.
The rest of the team can getdistracted or confused.
Or they talk or people talk tothem.
Clients might say something.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
They don't have the same perspective.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
They don't have the same experience that you have.
That's right, and it justreminds me of this conversation.
I need to do this again, likerecasting that vision, getting
people back in line, get thempoint, everybody pointing what
you want as a company, as aleaders, and talk about
engagement.
The ultimate objective ofengagement is we're all pointing
(24:53):
in the same direction.
Yeah, absolutely.
Compass the wind behind you,the sails are upright,
everybody's in their right spot,right seat in the bus to get
that ship right.
Yep, Pointing in the rightdirection.
That's true of what engagementis we're all a team rolling in
the same freaking direction.
Yes, then we get this efficiencyand we get this performance
(25:15):
that you're not going to get ifthey're not all thinking that
way, tomorrow for one of thecompanies, we're actually doing
like an off-site working sessiontogether and diagramming our
processes together, you know,and I think that that's an
effort of engagement, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Oh, diagramming processes, you know.
I'm glad you brought that up.
Yeah, because that's a perfectexample of where I think a lot
of problems are.
When the lack of engagement isthere, then that people tend to
follow the established process,whatever that happens to be, and
not improve it or not questionit and go.
(25:56):
Why are we doing a, b and C?
We could just go from a to Cand get rid of B altogether,
because it doesn't do anythingfor us.
Yeah, but that takes engagement.
It does.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
And we've got to know that those things kind of creep
up B might creep up at somepoint, or B was relevant
yesterday, but it's not anymorethis day and so revisiting that
is like a very, very criticalthing to do in order for people
to be engaged.
Yeah, yeah, I think you'reabsolutely right.
You have to engage in theprocess, for the process, to
engage the team.
Yes, it's like this neverending cycle.
(26:30):
Yes, that we have to do and sowe're about to get a little bit
more serious about that, youknow and getting the team
together to think about what wehave we've been doing.
Where are we at?
How can we improve all thesethings?
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Well, that's a normal evolution.
I mean, I don't know whatcompany you're talking about, of
yours, or where it is in itslife cycle, but once it gets
rolling along and it's beenthere for a little bit, you
better go back and take a hardlook at all this Because, like
you said, it evolved.
Times have changed.
The scenario is different now.
(27:03):
There's new information that wedidn't have before.
There's new capabilities in thefirm that we didn't have before
.
There's new capabilities in thefirm that we didn't have before
, yep, so those things do needto be questioned.
So, just looking at this heredisengaged employees cost US
businesses $438 billion a year.
I don't know where that numberever came up.
(27:24):
Yeah, I don't either year.
I don't know where that numberever came up yeah, I don't
either okay, I mean, I can't.
I gotta believe it's more thanthat.
Anyway, I mean, heck, the, the,the.
The deficit is freaking closeto 40 trillion, so 438 billion
doesn't seem like that big of anumber.
No engagement directly affectsthe bottom line.
(27:45):
That's according to Gallup.
Ai is helping small businessesonboard faster and improve
morale.
Okay, well, is onboarding?
Is that critical to engagement?
Yeah, I guess it is.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I know 100%.
Well, I mean, I think that onthat topic, right like AI is
about getting rid of a lot ofthe monotonous work.
That allows people to thinkbetter and actually do their
work a little bit moreefficiently and that will help
improve morale.
But you have to work to get theAI to work for you.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Well, and they've got to have something else to do or
be directed toward instead ofjust AI does my job and now I
don't do anything.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, it should take off a lot of the clutter work so
that you can think freely.
It's kind of like going back tothe whole process thing we were
talking about.
If I can automate a work or aprocess or a point in my process
, then that allows me to thinkabout other things that might be
broken or can be made moreefficient.
That's actually fun and thatcan lift morale.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
That makes sense to me can't lift morale.
That makes sense to me.
Um, 73 of employees feelanxious about rapid tech changes
.
Training and inclusion are key.
Um, yeah, I count me in on that.
I hate the technology change,but I, you know, sometimes it's
dumb, but more often than nottoday, it seems like it makes
sense.
Well, it's like.
(29:03):
You know, I was resistingconversion of our learning
management platform at u of afrom the old blackboard to the
new and like, oh god, I don'twant to learn.
Figure, that's old one out over19 years.
You use that.
I'm finally, yeah, completelyversed in it.
I want to do, and now they'regoing to change it.
Boy, the new one's a hell of alot better.
That's all I can say it.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Everything's better man, that resistance to adapt,
adaptation of technology is, Ithink is basic human nature.
But in today's time, man, wegotta I mean you talk about
going back to our originaldiscussion of survivalship yeah,
it's essential, it's a littlesurvive 100 essential today?
Speaker 3 (29:43):
yeah you, it's like, do you want to be the ones with
the bow and arrows when you'reright?
When you're, uh, you know he'sgot freaking guns, yeah, they've
got, you know, uh, fullyautomatic weapons, or whatever.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah I know, it's just like that same analogy,
though.
Yeah, we have to.
As an entrepreneur, you have toembrace technology.
I've always used bow and arrow,though, eric well, I know you
love that, I thought you, butI've always used bow and arrow
that way, Rick.
Well, I know you love that, butI've always used it.
You'll be shot a lot fasterthan you can even load your
arrow.
I'm just going to go ahead andtell you that's what's going to
happen, right?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Ready to level up your show?
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Speaker 1 (30:22):
From creation to distribution, we but I mean, I
think that's a big topic ofconversation today.
You talk about like and howlike.
We actually have been throughthis with podcast videos the
reality of AI, the reality ofautomated processes, the reality
of technology continuing toadvance.
(30:44):
I mean like, if we don't adaptto that, we will not even have a
company to engage with.
It's just what has to happen.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
I get it.
We're going through the samething at Janus Motorcycles with
this MRP system.
You have to.
If we cannot get thatimplemented, we can't go back to
the old paper system and oneperson knows where everything is
and this guy drives around withbins and takes them to a place
to fill them up with parts orwhatever.
Not going to work anymore.
(31:13):
That only takes you to acertain level.
Yeah then if you want to gobeyond that, you've got to have
these systems.
It takes a wholesale change ofeverything.
Not everybody gets on boardwith that.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
No, no, they're very resistant and I mean, okay, but
there is no other option.
I I we know that?
Speaker 3 (31:30):
yeah, do they know that?
No, they don't really know that.
How do we get them to?
Speaker 1 (31:33):
understand?
No, they don't really know that.
How do we?
Speaker 3 (31:35):
get them to understand that you know.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
I think that part of that is you know what we're
trying to exercise, at least,like I get it right, like if I
can understand there's a threatto maybe what I have been doing
in my role, that technology caneither automate or the burden of
learning a new tool.
I mean, all those things arereally challenging.
(31:57):
I think the thing about it isfirst, you have to establish a
culture of embracing andevolving with those changes.
You have to have speed as oneof your top pillars.
Oh.
God, thank you.
Speed, speed, speed, speed,speed.
That that ability torelentlessly change and adapt,
(32:19):
and that is who we are and whatwe do, period.
And so in our I agree onpodcast videos I'm like guys,
look, this is a fast-movingindustry, right?
If you can't like this isn'tthe right place for you, yeah,
exactly, this isn't.
I mean like you are not goingto be happy.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
So it kind of goes back to choosing the right
people I've always wanted tohave speed awards for people in
the company who demonstrate thatthey do things quickly, yeah,
okay, yeah, whether that'sresponding to a customer or
changing something that's broken, or whatever speed, speed speed
is all about in, in every, inevery nook and cranny of every
(32:54):
business going on today.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Like that is because of what technology is doing to
the like.
You have to have that as one ofyour top pillars.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
You do, you're right, but you know that.
Again, though, is a great.
I'm glad you brought that up,because that's one of the great
things about being a smallbusiness.
Oh yeah, we can be faster andmore fleet and more responsive
than big companies.
They've got all that investmentand that sunk cost and that old
way of doing things.
If you think it's hard tochange this in a 20 person
(33:24):
company, try doing it in a 20000, 100, okay that is your
cutting edge advantage of asmall business.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
That's it right there .
Yeah it, because you don't needto dart around.
Yeah, it is, and I'll be honestwith you.
What we're experiencing withtech is allowing smaller
companies to be even faster thanwhat they've ever been able to
be before, and to your pointthey can beat.
I mean, you can enter into themarket as a small, two-person,
five-person company, leveragingall the technology and kick the
(33:53):
butts out of me.
Yeah, it's pretty awesome itreally is.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
I mean, that's so exciting, yeah, but we've got to
get everybody to see that.
We've got to get everybody tounderstand that.
We've got to get everybody tounderstand that they will
benefit personally.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
So, to that point, this one of our exercises, our
workshop, right A workingsession, to where you get on
your computer we have somebodythat's consulting or talking and
doing the workshop for us.
That's going to have us get ourhands on the keyboard and
create a process and the wholeteam will experience that as a
(34:32):
group.
It's like a hackathon.
It's like a hackathon.
It is like a hackathon.
Yeah, here's the problem, gosolve it.
Yeah, we go solve it.
We solve it together.
It gets you familiar, it takesyou out of being isolated and
overwhelmed by it.
And then this negative feedbackthat happens underground Well,
I didn't do that.
(34:52):
I don't have enough time, I'mnot getting paid enough.
I don't have enough time, I'mnot getting paid enough, I don't
have enough time.
Oh my God.
You know all these negativethings that breed in the culture
.
But if we bring everybodytogether and say, guys, look, we
as a team are doing this, Ilove it.
This is brand new for everyone,right?
So let's get in here and getthis figured out, and then it
(35:13):
exposes them, and then they havethe confidence, then they can
see like, oh, this will help meout, this is actually going to
save me a lot of time.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
We started watching a really good documentary I
haven't finished it yet onTwitter and how they started it.
I don't know if you've seen itno, I haven't seen it but I mean
they were working on otherproblems completely when their
whole business model justevaporated overnight.
Yeah, and then they're like,okay, now what are we going to
do?
And they just came up withideas.
Everybody come up with ideas.
(35:42):
Okay, let's come up with a newapplication, let's come up with
a new, you know, program.
Yeah, and they did it.
Yeah, okay, it's very exciting.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Oh, I think there's a whole different level of
thinking that's happening inSilicon Valley and I think that
is what probably the apex of itall is is that a lot of these
companies start without knowingwhat the product is.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
They just have a general idea, or using tech
stack or whatever it might be,or they got really talented
people yeah.
There's a market problem to gosolve.
We don't know exactly what ourend product is, but having that
freedom to just get together andfigure it out together as a
team is what's driving a lot ofthese highly innovative, big
(36:29):
freaking exiting companies,because it's not only Twitter,
but a lot of these companies arein the same thing, like Airbnb,
uber all of them, like you know, like didn't really have Uber
when they first started out withthis perfect thesis plan and
forecast model eBay didn'teither.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
I mean, they're selling.
You know, the guy came up withit to sell his girlfriend's Pez
dispensers or whatever.
That was the foundation of it,yeah, and then it just drives
everything.
Yeah, yeah, that's exciting.
So, yeah, this is reallyinteresting.
Um, a few other things here.
Uh, top-ranked small businessesoffer flexibility, ownership
(37:07):
and mental health support.
According to the Times, uk bestsmall companies yeah, within a,
within a some constraints.
I mean, I, you know theflexibility is great, but the
problem, I think, with a lot ofpeople with their idea of
(37:27):
flexibility is that my work is40 hours and then I want you to
be flexible within the 40 hours.
How much I do?
I got a problem with that Ifyour work is unlimited, your
work time, and you want to beflexible and you get done a lot
of stuff because you're workingall the time or you're taking
(37:49):
off for two hours but thenyou're coming back to it, yeah,
eight o'clock at night orwhatever.
Yeah, that's a different thing.
Totally be flexible within my40 hours so I really don't have
to work 40 hours, right, right,I think that's what a lot of
people's idea is, unfortunatelywell, it kind of goes back to
about what?
Speaker 1 (38:06):
what is that person, what is their perspective about
what their work really is like?
Why are they working?
I mean, like, what have theybeen taught?
What are their beliefs?
Like all those types of thingsthat impact that flexibility.
It can be abused really quickly, boy.
It can.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
And the railing against the man.
Yeah, the man is here toexploit me, as opposed to.
I can work this system to myown benefit, right?
It's just, you know, when theyhave the attitude that they're
being exploited and they thinklike a factory worker from 1900,
(38:44):
okay, you know, I guess that'spart of the programming we were
talking about earlier where youmay not be able to overcome that
, no matter how much informationand visioning and team building
and everything that you do, youmay not be able to overcome,
which is unfortunate because itreally impacts ends up impacting
(39:05):
that team member more than itimpacts anybody else.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, because the ship will keep sailing, you know
, if under the right leadershipand right and drive right.
Yeah, uh, you know, and that'sum, I have seen that happen over
and over again with individualsthat that have the incorrect
programming as to the intent ofa company and its growth, but
they're bringing in baggage fromfrom previous things or from
(39:29):
things that they've been taughtand they've understood and it's
well, that's, that's whatbusiness is all about.
That's huge Business like in.
You know, I think that's finein your perspective, a lot of
small business owners'perspectives.
They're starting it becausethey see something, yeah, and
they're trying to solve it andthey just want the best for
everyone and everything.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Yeah, they're not just starting it to make a lot
of money, right.
That's the thing people don'tunderstand.
It's the same thing.
I again sorry for thedistraction.
Yeah, but it's just like youknow.
People complain about the cityof fayetteville and how
difficult it is to be a realestate developer.
Their development projects,they're harder to do than they
are here in benton county.
So you guys are getting morebusiness.
(40:08):
You could.
You know that's.
Yeah, yeah, right, so but herethe problem in the city of
Fayetteville with the staff, theplanning department, the
engineering, building safety,whatever the attitude is that if
you are a real developer, thatyou are only a developer because
you're greedy and want to makea lot of money.
(40:29):
It's usually way down on thelist.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
It is they just one bad.
Half a spool is a whole bunch,right, you want to?
Speaker 3 (40:33):
improve the city.
You, it is they just one bad,okay, spools a whole bunch,
right.
You, you want to improve thecity.
You want to provide housing forpeople who need it.
You want to have a better placeto shop, or I mean there's.
You have this vision for whatthe city could be and how these
things could be used and how it.
The money is not the primarydriver, but the implicit
assumption is that you're eviland greedy, and I think a lot of
(40:56):
workers think like that abouttheir owners.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
I agree 100%.
You know, I would end this withthis statement.
I really think that thispodcast topic should be, instead
of how does a company engageemployees?
It's really, how do employeesengage with a company?
Employees it's really how doemployees engage with the
company.
Because if you ask my opinionas being a small business owner
(41:19):
for a number of years, that'smore of the problem In all
honesty.
I mean I'll just be.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Well, they got to select the industry they've got
a passion for.
You already said that Exactly,but so many times people come to
a company with wrong intentions.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Yeah, Like can we reverse this societal
perspective here in a way?
I mean, I know it's, it'stouchy, but I mean, like my
experience has shown a lot oftimes, when people, when things
don't work out, it's theindividual person coming to a
small business that is notreally wanting to engage with
(41:52):
the business, they are doing itfor whatever other reason and it
makes this friction type ofscenario.
When the reality is is whenI've seen on the opposite side,
with people that have engagedwith the business have been
rewarded tremendously.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Yeah, with experience , money, growth and career, and
so well, maybe they want alifestyle job.
Really, I want to be a musician, yeah, but I need this job so I
can pay my rent and yeah, andeat or whatever, yeah, okay,
okay, that's bad, okay, we'renot.
Well, I mean, we're not lookingfor people like that in our
(42:30):
company, right, right, we'relooking for people who want to
get more out of it than that.
It's not just a means of ofexistence yes, and I think that
that's a big.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
That's kind of goes at one point like where is now,
are there positions and roles ofwhere that can be it right,
it's just yeah, maybe you workin the mail room and it's only
open eight hours a day orwhatever.
Everybody's fine.
You're not trying to go.
I'm not trying to make you goplaces.
Yeah, exactly, we're all goodHandshake and done.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
Yeah, but you're going to make 15 bucks an hour.
Don't expect to get more thanthat.
Yeah, okay, like, have theright expectations.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Yeah, exactly Right, it's about like being married.
What are our expectations here?
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Well, it always comes back to getting the right
people.
Yeah, and, like you said,they've got to have, they've got
to be making good decisions onwhat kind of organizations
they're joining.
Do you think maybe wemisrepresent what the situation
is in an attempt to sell peopleto come to our company?
Speaker 1 (43:26):
I think I have misrepresented much more than I
have represented correctly.
Like I mean, actually it comesdown to the interview process.
Like I don't think about itwhen it's time for interview.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
It's always fun.
It's going to be fun to workhere.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Yeah, man, I got this going on and I'm over here all
excited, but I'm not ever askingquestions about what are your
ambitions, what are you tryingto accomplish?
You know, because I think thatit's really important.
I have gotten better over theyears.
My interviews now look like hey, look, I'm like.
Here's my interview process.
Now, listen, I just want you toknow, interviewee, this is
(43:58):
going to be the hardest workthat you've ever done in your
life.
Yeah, Like I expect everythingyou know and I am unrealistic
and we're going to go to the.
And like I'm doing everythingthat everyone's telling me that
cannot be done.
Right, I'm looking for a teamof rising stars to join me in
this fight.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Yeah, If we're going to the moon.
If you think that's notpossible to go to the moon, and
it's all fake.
Don't join this team, man.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Don't come on board.
That is kind of my interviewprocess now, but I think that my
attempt there is to set alittle bit of expectation that
this is not the mailroom job,expectation that this is not a
the mailroom job.
Yeah, you know, because likeyou're gonna hurt, we're gonna
hurt each other.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
If we're right, if we do that?
No, you're absolutely right.
I I love that.
Well, I think we're afraid todo that because or a lot of us
are because the labor pool istight, yeah you know we're, but
or at least we think it's tight.
I don't think it's as tight aspeople think, because I think
they've got the wrong criteriahalf the time.
They're looking for educationand experience instead of
(45:00):
attitude and drive andpersonality attributes.
That's all I'm looking for, man, you know Attitude?
Yeah, I believe that,unfortunately, we're out of time
.
We need to say goodbye to ourlisteners.
So goodbye listeners, goodbyelisteners, until next week.
It's been another episode ofBig.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Talk about Small Business.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
about Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to our website,
wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscomand click on the Ask the Host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk About Small
(45:55):
Business and be sure to headover to our website to read
articles, browse episodes andask questions about upcoming
shows.
So what we're saying here is if you're listening to
this and you're an entrepreneuror you're thinking about going
into entrepreneurship and youthink for one split second that
you can have these be in thisbusiness that you're starting,
you're 1,000% wrong.
You will get slapped across theface, yeah unless you just get
lucky so for everybody who didnot know.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
This is another episode of that big talk about
that small business.
And uh, today we're going totalk about employee engagement
that's a big topic.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Hey, just a reminder to all the listeners, like, why
are we here?
We're here to help theentrepreneur or the aspiring
entrepreneur, you know, to knowabout some of the raw things,
the real things that go on inbusiness and what it really
takes you know it's not fluff,right?
I mean, we're really trying tojust help people that are in the
(01:04):
weeds of it and about to getinto the weeds of it, like give
you a little taste about what'sabout to come.
So maybe some tips that'll helpyou, some little tips, yeah,
some raw experience, yeah, frommyself and yourself that have
been through a little bit of theringer, yeah, and then our
guests that come on and stillare in the ringer.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
And still in the freaking dude in the weeds 67
and a half and I'm still in theringer.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
And just right before the show you go, you said I
look depressed today.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Well, you're never totally depressed.
That was unfair.
Okay, maybe not at your highestenergy level.
Well, you know what it was.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I got like it sucked it out of me.
It was just the amount ofemails and text messages that I
was having to trill through thismorning.
Oh yes, insane.
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Insane.
Listen.
Every day it starts out withproblems, as you've said before.
I mean, this morning Idiscovered, you know,
significant errors in the cashflow forecast for one business.
Okay, significant errors in thecash flow forecast for one
(02:09):
business, okay, um, fortunatelyit it actually.
Um, we have more cash than Ithought we.
Well, that's good.
In the short term, that's agood problem, yeah, but, but
that was one.
And then just like a total lackof understanding about why
we're doing what we're doing andand why it's so essential, yeah
, in the people that have to beresponsible for it.
And then the next thing is Ifind out none of my classes have
been scheduled for nextsemester, and I talk to my
(02:31):
department chair about that, andwe're going through some kind
of conversion of our systems atU of A.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
From UAConnect to Workday Student and he's just
like he was so angry at thescrew-ups and bureaucracy and
paperwork and just veryfrustrated.
Yeah, you know so yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
So how do you, as mark as well I mean, because
you're one of the best I knowjust hammering things out, right
, like, how do you come up withthat?
Like you wake up, you knowthere's problems, you just like
to take care of problems.
Like, yeah, I just deal with it.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
I just deal with it.
I'm serious.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Do you have a higher vision as to why you are dealing
with it or you're just freaking?
Speaker 3 (03:09):
higher vision, yeah I don't know, or you just, I mean
, it's what I am, it's what I do, I'm a fixer, okay, that's it,
that's.
I mean, I don't know if there'sany great vision there or not.
You just like to fix things,yes yes, I do, I enjoy fixing.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
No, you do, and I mean like even going back to
like when you used to your homes.
I mean like you would pick outsome pretty, you know, uh,
pretty nasty, nasty, nastyplaces but turn them into
beautiful things and that wassomething I mean you just
enjoyed the hell out of that.
I just put a post.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
You know I'm doing one down the street.
I just put a post post onLinkedIn about that this morning
.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
And basically, you know, what I was saying is that
it takes attention to everysingle detail.
Okay, that's what we do, allright, yeah, every closet is
perfectly painted and refinished.
Every garage floor, every lightbulb, every, every thing is
clean.
Every door closes like it'ssupposed to close and latches
(04:09):
and the cabinet doors are linedup okay, and they'll be.
The beds are weeded and thetrees are trimmed and the power
washing has been done, yeah, andthe the gutters are clean and
the windows sparkle, and so, youknow, at night, we leave every
(04:29):
single light on in the house,every light, and we have the AC
turned below 70 in the summerand the heat turned above 70 in
the winter, and the fireplaceflues operate and the chimneys
have been cleaned.
Okay, and if there needs to be apiece of furniture in an odd
shaped room to show people howit should be laid out, that
(04:49):
furniture is in the place thatit needs to go, and that's how
we sell houses.
Okay, when the inspector comesin, they don't find a dirty
furnace filter and a whateverAll right, it's, it's ready to
go, it's done, it's perfect.
It a whatever All right, it's,it's ready to go, it's done,
it's perfect, it's excellent.
All right, excellent.
It's all about excellence.
(05:11):
It's all about attention todetail.
That's how you build.
You know that business.
That's how we got to bedevelopers of the year.
That's how we got best historicrenovation award.
That's how we got on the inc5000 list of fastest growing
companies during a real estaterecession.
Yeah, it's like it takes anobsession with details and they
(05:35):
all combine into a whole, okay,and that whole is excellent and
that whole is differentiatedover the competition.
Where you go in every otherhouse, it's got 10 million
things wrong with it.
It's like, yeah, but that,forget all the butts.
We don't want to hear yourfreaking butts.
We want to be able to visualizemoving in this thing and it's
(05:57):
perfect and life is beautiful.
Okay, you like that?
Speaker 1 (06:02):
right, I love that.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yeah, painting that canvas of perfection and beauty
and yeah, from the mailbox tothe address numbers on the
mailbox.
I spent 39 for those to get theright ones that are raised and
yeah, you know it's just, it'sso many things are you
calculating your time and doingan roi analysis?
Speaker 1 (06:23):
oh, I them.
Mailbox numbers and all that?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
No, not my time, I just.
My whole thing is how muchmoney do I have in it and how
much do I sell it for?
Yeah, and the time value ofmoney is charged against the job
.
Whether it's put in with cashor it's borrowed, the time value
of the money is a factor.
Yeah, I know every single penny.
I mean I can show you righthere.
(06:46):
You want to see it.
Yeah, I'll show you.
Take a look at that Every day,every amount, down to the penny,
of every single dime.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
And this is what always amazes me that this is
just in your phone notes.
So, like what you're doing,you're in grief man, and you
just write this down as you, asyou go about, right, and that's
how I know I've got every day.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
You're not putting this in quickbooks or anything.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
No, I don't put it in quickbooks, I used to, but I
don't do you send this tosomebody so they can put it in
the books.
No, you just know.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
You're just counting for the total I need it for my
taxes though, yeah, okay, whenit comes down to it at the end.
You know, when you go to sellthis, I mean you got a taxable
gain on it, but you want to showas much cost as you can.
But you see that, yeah, okay,that's pretty detailed, it's
really detailed, every singlepart, okay.
But anyway, it's the obsessionExcellence.
(07:43):
Why do something if you'regoing to do a shitty job?
That's true, okay, why, yeah, I?
So how do we get our employeesto understand that's right,
that's, that's, that's that's a.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
That is because if everybody in the company could
have obsession with somethingyou know, you can tie that to
what they're doing and then thenthe company rises up as a true
excellent company.
Yes, you know, but itabsolutely drives me crazy that
when I can't find what is itthat you're passionate about,
(08:16):
yeah, well that.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
I'm glad you brought that up, because here's the
first bit about employeeengagement get the right
employees.
Yeah, they're not all going tobe engaged right, okay, they're
just not.
I mean, there's a variety ofreasons that their whole life
experience, you know, plays sucha big part of it, their
personality stuff they're bornwith.
We don't know, yeah, where itall comes what they've been
(08:40):
taught what they believe.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah, taught what they believe.
Yeah, you know, I think there'sa lot of like.
I've noticed like there's thisvacuum that seems to be getting
more powerful, to be honest withyou, of where folks are just
not.
It's almost like they don'trecognize why they're even alive
.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah, no, I hear what you're saying, you know.
But you know what, though?
If you think about that and I'mnever one one I don't like to
generalize about generations orno, no, no, no, it doesn't
matter, right, but if you thinkback on, like our parents now,
my dad was a and mom they weredepression survivors in world
war ii, right, you know verydifficult hand-to-hand combat.
(09:21):
My dad, first lieutenant,survived, got his, you know his,
his bra is his bronze star andhis his silver star and all that
.
And so they went through a lot,right, and they didn't have it
real easy, right?
So maybe by the time we camealong, we, we saw that they had
(09:44):
the, the sort of metal, they hadthe character to overcome
obstacles.
Yeah, yeah, your dad grew up inCarbondale, illinois.
Yeah, now, I don't know, Inever, we never talked about
what his parents did, butCarbondale is a, is a pretty
poor area.
Okay, my guess is they probablyweren't really well off.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
No, my my dad's dad was a postmaster there you go,
in Carbondale right, sure, buthe was a teacher before, but
he's the first one to graduatecollege.
He served in World War II aswell.
My mom's dad served in the Navyin World War II, was a POW, wow
.
And then he was also-.
Was he in Germany or Japan?
Speaker 3 (10:26):
No Japan, oh that wow .
And then he was what's ingermany, or no, uh japan, oh,
that's terrible.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah, no w in japan was beyond horrible, yeah and,
and, and, and he was a mechanic.
And then um, and then he brokehis back doing he was like the,
the uh, the shift leader orwhatever, or the shop leader
head mechanic.
And then um, he was also his.
His parents were coal miners.
Yeah, so he grew up like yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
So the point is, I mean, you think about what some
of those people had to surviveand what they had to do to
transcend that's right.
Those circumstances, yeah, theywere tough, they were
determined surviving, they had amotivation level.
Today people have too much,they mean it's too comfortable,
it is.
(11:06):
It's just like I can't believe.
You know, I saw a deal recently, um, that was all on and it's
always.
I've known this anyway, but itwas like starter homes.
You know what's the averagehome today?
Well, in 1950 it was 900 squarefeet, had two bedrooms, one
bath, and, yeah, what's theaverage new home today?
It's like 2,600 square feet.
(11:27):
Yeah, two-car garage, three orfour bedrooms, three baths.
So much stuff.
Okay, I mean, you can't evenyeah, it costs more, you can't
even compare it.
Speaker 4 (11:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Okay, why is the expectation?
I have students that graduate,yeah, and go out and buy, buy
something like they go out andthey buy something like that.
I mean it, it.
It's kind of mind-boggling thatthat's where they think that
they should start out andthey're willing to take on that
kind of debt okay, and thatthey're still not that motivated
.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
A lot of them, you know, and it gets pretty
depressing when you haveeverything and then you're still
working and it doesn't seemfair.
It doesn't seem like what areyou working towards?
Yeah, you've already goteverything.
You've already got everythingRight, so now you just want to
chill and then, like, your nextlevel is to not work, and so the
whole mentality becomes on,that's death.
(12:19):
Yeah, it is, and you don'trealize it until you're there.
And then where's your ambition?
Where's your passion?
You know, I guess passion has alot.
It's kind of really a new wordif you really look at it,
because, like we were talkingabout our grandparents, they
never talked about passion.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Who gives?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
a crap about your passion.
You know it's like did you earnor did you not earn?
Can you put food on the tableor did you not?
True, that's it.
And living that and being thatsimple.
You know we were actuallytalking about before, but you
said it's about survival.
It's about, and in order tosurvive, it's about being
excellent.
Yes, right, you have to beexcellent to survive.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
And then you have people like us who we could
survive comfortably right, if wejust did everything that we're
quote supposed to, yeah, butinstead we keep putting
ourselves in situations whereit's like, why did I do that?
Oh my God, I got so much tolose here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like wekeep putting ourselves into a
(13:23):
survival situation, but we havecompetence that we will overcome
because we will do the workthat it takes to get to where
we've got to go.
It's like next week I got togive a seminar at one of the
Walton College deal over here inBentonville.
(13:43):
You know that satellite dealwe've got and it's some kind of
a seminar, but on innovation andmarketing and all.
And you know what I want to say.
I mean, truthfully, I don'tneed that much innovation.
I will do the work of marketing.
That will ensure I will besuccessful Marketing requires a
crazy amount of work.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
It just, it's just Relentlessness.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
It's relentless discipline.
Yeah, you've got to have thediscipline.
And then you do all the thingsthat you know you need to do and
guess what it probably is goingto work out?
I can go out there and look fora magic bullet on something new
.
Yeah, okay, maybe that'll work.
But boy, the odds sure go down.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
That's all I know, and so, like, the question is is
, how do you engage others inyour team to do that?
Because I'll be honest with you, like from my perspective as an
entrepreneur, and and, and, and, and and drives me nuts because
I think that a lot of the teamin my experience not, you know,
just teams in general- not anyspecific yeah, yeah, yeah, not,
you know, just teams in generalnot any specific.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you know, I reallygenuinely have a desire for them
(14:51):
to engage, because it's notabout me.
You want to see them besuccessful, absolutely.
I want to see them be part ofsomething that's bigger than I.
Get that and then they lookaround, they like I did that and
I did it with so and so andsuch and such, and we did that
together.
Like when I look back on on mylife as in career, the best
times of my life were workingwith a group of people of court
(15:14):
and accomplishing accomplishingsomething together, and it's
usually in those times, like youwere talking about, when things
were really hard.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
no, I mean that's.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I mean, that's such a satisfying feeling, it's
actually, when I look back, it'slike the most enjoyable times
in my career.
I know Most rewarding times inmy career.
There wasn't a lot of moneyflying around, there wasn't a
lot of fancy stuff, you know, itwas like just down dirty
working, being excellent,overcoming ourselves, overcoming
(15:43):
the barriers, beatingcompetitors, doing what
everybody said that we couldn'tdo the underdog life, man Right.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
That's where the satisfaction comes in.
100% I know, and you want peopleto experience that because you
understand that's rewardingpsychically, rewarding 100%,
okay, but it also can berewarding for them financially.
Dude, that's the way it paidoff.
That's my experience.
Yeah, anybody that made itthrough that are doing pretty
(16:12):
well, exactly, and moving upRight.
You know, it's like we're notgoing to be able to do any
better for you as an individualif the organization is stuck
where it is.
Yeah, it's not all just amatter of the owner's greed or
not greed.
Yeah, like, how much do I giveback or how much do I not?
(16:32):
It's the organization and whatit creates is what determines
what you can do.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
You know, I think, as we talk about this engaging
employees, I think there's a50-50 here.
Okay, so I do believe thatthere is a responsibility for
myself or for leaders in thecompany and it's not just me,
it's any leader.
Leadership, or if you want tobe a leader in a company, you
(17:00):
need to have engagement.
That needs to be on top of yourmind.
How do we engage the team inthis?
And we can talk about that, butI'd say there's a 50% that we
don't even need to really talkabout.
That is left up to theresponsibility of the individual
to engage them, freaking selvesinto what they're doing Boy.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Amen to that.
I mean, you can't do it foreverybody, no.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
You can try, but there's only so far you can go,
and so as Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
No, you're right, but there is a precedent to that,
though, I think.
Well, it's not necessarily aprecedent, but what makes it
work is the owner's got to beengaged.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, it's not just the.
If the owner's not engaged, howdo you expect the employees to
be engaged?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Mark, I'm going to sit here and say I have been
slapped in the face multipletimes in business and every time
it's about me losing engagementMe too.
I would admit that I get tired,right, or I get lazy.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Or I get distracted.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Or I get pulled into this and I get disengaged with
my own company, or I think thatI maybe or have arrived
somewhere right.
I shouldn't and I don't have todo that yeah I get it, you know
, every time wrong.
You know, just absolutelyslapped across, the karma slaps
you and big time, big time, yeah, yeah, and then, and then, even
if I'm not engaged, it's like alike I'm, you know, it's like
(18:23):
it doesn't mean much to meeither.
Yeah, you know, sure, but whenI get engaged, it's when I get
back into the grind and it'sjust ugly.
But you're right, if you're notengaged, your team's not going
to be engaged in the business.
Like it drifts off to watersyou can't even understand.
Like, how in the hell did itget over there?
Yeah, and then trying to pullit back in is so much hard work.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Oh, it's really hard.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
It's like you slip down the hill and now you've got
to pull it all the way back upjust to get to where you need to
be.
So what we're saying here is ifyou're listening to this and
you're an entrepreneur or you'rethinking about going into
entrepreneurship and you thinkfor one split second that you
can have these be in this,business that you're starting.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
You're, you're a thousand percent wrong.
You will get slapped across theface.
Yeah, unless you just get lucky.
I mean it's possible you couldget lucky, and just this
superstar ends up in your lapand they just do everything.
I have seen a few situationslike that, but again, the odds
are against that.
I mean you can get lucky.
You can walk down the streetand find a thousand dollars
laying there too.
You know what I mean?
I haven't been lucky like this.
Yeah, it's, the odds are not.
(19:33):
It's not gonna happen.
Yeah, I mean yeah.
So I agree with you 100.
So it starts with you beingengaged.
You got to find the rightpeople.
Not everybody is going to beable to do it.
They don't all have thebackground or whatever, due to
their parenting or due to justgenetics, we don't know, we
(19:54):
don't care.
It's just they're not all goingto do it.
That's right.
The problem is so how do youget enough of them who will do
it?
I mean, I do think it startswith when people evidence
themselves as not being engagedin spite of your best efforts
over an extended period of time.
Yeah, but not too extended.
(20:14):
Right, you need to move themoff the team.
Well, that's what?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yeah, that's right.
Pollute other people and youneed to feel the ability.
Like you can only like we'retalking about 50 percent Like
you can only do so much.
You can only engage others somuch.
The other part's left up tothem and you shouldn't feel bad
about that.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yeah, exactly they don't do it.
It's not your fault at somelevel, Right?
Speaker 1 (20:36):
100% yeah.
So how do we engage the onesthat say, let's say, I am
engaged, I've chosen a decentteam, right, yeah, and you know
you're getting non-engagers offthe team.
Oh, non-engagers are off theteam.
How do we engage the engagers,like, how do we get them to be
more engaged in the company?
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I think number one in my opinion and I doubt you
would disagree with this is you,as the owner manager, have to
commit to being a growthbusiness.
Don't rationalize the fact thatwe're going to stay small but
be successful, right, okay,that's automatically puts a cap
on everything.
That's so true automate.
(21:15):
And there's so many smallbusiness owners that think like
that well, if I can do a milliondollars a year, I make 150 and
I'll be happy with that.
Okay, as soon as that becomesclear to your employees, death,
yeah again.
Yeah, okay, yeah, good luckhaving engaged employees, right,
that's your mentality, right?
So you got to commit to agrowth company.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
And even if you have a company like that and they
might be engaged, the good onesare going to bounce out because
you put a cap on them on theirgrowth level, like the really
shining stars are not going tostick with your company.
Why would you?
Speaker 3 (21:50):
work in a place like that, I wouldn't even consider
it.
No, the moment I discoveredthat in one company I was in, I
got opted out.
Yeah, I had a great job, I wasmaking over $100,000 a year.
I wasn't even 30 years old yet.
Company car, company, countryclub membership yeah, man.
Yet company car, company,country club membership yeah,
man, okay, I mean I, it's justfreaking.
1986 seven.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah, I could have stayed in that, yeah, and just
be disengaged for the rest ofyour life.
Just, it's a, you know, butit's not growing.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
The place isn't growing.
There's only so good.
I'm only gonna go so far yeahyeah, that's in that environment
that's the first.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
What's another way, I think?
Engaging?
Speaker 3 (22:28):
well, I think another way again.
I mean, some of this stuffwe've talked about before, but I
mean sharing in the businessplanning and not making the
business plan a secret.
I mean I think those two kindof go hand in hand.
Like we got to get peopleparticipating, yeah, and what
we're, you know, how are wegoing to accomplish this vision?
Okay, they don't set the vision, by the way.
(22:50):
True, you set the vision Right.
Okay, you set the mission.
Why are you in business?
What are you trying to become?
That's your responsibility asthe owner.
Yeah, but how to get there andthe details and some of the
tasks and all we've got to gettheir involvement in that of the
, the tasks and all we've got toget their involvement in that.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Yeah, okay, you know what's what's interesting about
that and at least it's been myexperience, like I've done
pretty well on establishing likea purpose, mission, vision and
stuff you have you strike out abig vision.
Yeah, it's, it's, there's theirread.
My problem is is I don'trevisit it and recast it on a
regular basis, yeah, or asfrequent as I need to.
I don't know that you can, Idon't know that you can beat
(23:30):
that down too much.
Like it should be.
Like I've seen you gotta sellit really well, yeah, but it's
just and everywhere and everynook and cranny.
That's.
That's awesome.
That's like what I think istrue.
Really great branding, yeah,folks, but.
But it's always interesting tome, like if you be cast
everybody's on the same page,you walk out the door.
That might last for about 48hours and then people get
(23:53):
confused again.
It's because you know, andsometimes I get confused with a
vision.
But there's an ability, I think, as an entrepreneur where
you're, you know it's 90% ofwhat you're thinking is anyway,
it's like a natural thing.
You saw it to begin with whennothing was there, and then,
when distractions come in, youcan realign a lot easier, I
think, than maybe some of theteam can.
(24:15):
Yeah, but it's your job Becauseyou see the big picture,
because you see the big pictureand you just hide the
distractions.
But it's your job to come back.
But you've got to understand.
The rest of the team can getdistracted or confused.
Or they talk or people talk tothem.
Clients might say something.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
They don't have the same perspective.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
They don't have the same experience that you have.
That's right, and it justreminds me of this conversation.
I need to do this again, likerecasting that vision, getting
people back in line, get thempoint, everybody pointing what
you want as a company, as aleaders, and talk about
engagement.
The ultimate objective ofengagement is we're all pointing
(24:53):
in the same direction.
Yeah, absolutely.
Compass the wind behind you,the sails are upright,
everybody's in their right spot,right seat in the bus to get
that ship right.
Yep, Pointing in the rightdirection.
That's true of what engagementis we're all a team rolling in
the same freaking direction.
Yes, then we get this efficiencyand we get this performance
(25:15):
that you're not going to get ifthey're not all thinking that
way, tomorrow for one of thecompanies, we're actually doing
like an off-site working sessiontogether and diagramming our
processes together, you know,and I think that that's an
effort of engagement, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Oh, diagramming processes, you know.
I'm glad you brought that up.
Yeah, because that's a perfectexample of where I think a lot
of problems are.
When the lack of engagement isthere, then that people tend to
follow the established process,whatever that happens to be, and
not improve it or not questionit and go.
(25:56):
Why are we doing a, b and C?
We could just go from a to Cand get rid of B altogether,
because it doesn't do anythingfor us.
Yeah, but that takes engagement.
It does.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
And we've got to know that those things kind of creep
up B might creep up at somepoint, or B was relevant
yesterday, but it's not anymorethis day and so revisiting that
is like a very, very criticalthing to do in order for people
to be engaged.
Yeah, yeah, I think you'reabsolutely right.
You have to engage in theprocess, for the process, to
engage the team.
Yes, it's like this neverending cycle.
(26:30):
Yes, that we have to do and sowe're about to get a little bit
more serious about that, youknow and getting the team
together to think about what wehave we've been doing.
Where are we at?
How can we improve all thesethings?
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Well, that's a normal evolution.
I mean, I don't know whatcompany you're talking about, of
yours, or where it is in itslife cycle, but once it gets
rolling along and it's beenthere for a little bit, you
better go back and take a hardlook at all this Because, like
you said, it evolved.
Times have changed.
The scenario is different now.
(27:03):
There's new information that wedidn't have before.
There's new capabilities in thefirm that we didn't have before
.
There's new capabilities in thefirm that we didn't have before
, yep, so those things do needto be questioned.
So, just looking at this heredisengaged employees cost US
businesses $438 billion a year.
I don't know where that numberever came up.
(27:24):
Yeah, I don't either year.
I don't know where that numberever came up yeah, I don't
either okay, I mean, I can't.
I gotta believe it's more thanthat.
Anyway, I mean, heck, the, the,the.
The deficit is freaking closeto 40 trillion, so 438 billion
doesn't seem like that big of anumber.
No engagement directly affectsthe bottom line.
(27:45):
That's according to Gallup.
Ai is helping small businessesonboard faster and improve
morale.
Okay, well, is onboarding?
Is that critical to engagement?
Yeah, I guess it is.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
I know 100%.
Well, I mean, I think that onthat topic, right like AI is
about getting rid of a lot ofthe monotonous work.
That allows people to thinkbetter and actually do their
work a little bit moreefficiently and that will help
improve morale.
But you have to work to get theAI to work for you.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Well, and they've got to have something else to do or
be directed toward instead ofjust AI does my job and now I
don't do anything.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, it should take off a lot of the clutter work so
that you can think freely.
It's kind of like going back tothe whole process thing we were
talking about.
If I can automate a work or aprocess or a point in my process
, then that allows me to thinkabout other things that might be
broken or can be made moreefficient.
That's actually fun and thatcan lift morale.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
That makes sense to me can't lift morale.
That makes sense to me.
Um, 73 of employees feelanxious about rapid tech changes
.
Training and inclusion are key.
Um, yeah, I count me in on that.
I hate the technology change,but I, you know, sometimes it's
dumb, but more often than nottoday, it seems like it makes
sense.
Well, it's like.
(29:03):
You know, I was resistingconversion of our learning
management platform at u of afrom the old blackboard to the
new and like, oh god, I don'twant to learn.
Figure, that's old one out over19 years.
You use that.
I'm finally, yeah, completelyversed in it.
I want to do, and now they'regoing to change it.
Boy, the new one's a hell of alot better.
That's all I can say it.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Everything's better man, that resistance to adapt,
adaptation of technology is, Ithink is basic human nature.
But in today's time, man, wegotta I mean you talk about
going back to our originaldiscussion of survivalship yeah,
it's essential, it's a littlesurvive 100 essential today?
Speaker 3 (29:43):
yeah you, it's like, do you want to be the ones with
the bow and arrows when you'reright?
When you're, uh, you know he'sgot freaking guns, yeah, they've
got, you know, uh, fullyautomatic weapons, or whatever.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah I know, it's just like that same analogy,
though.
Yeah, we have to.
As an entrepreneur, you have toembrace technology.
I've always used bow and arrow,though, eric well, I know you
love that, I thought you, butI've always used bow and arrow
that way, Rick.
Well, I know you love that, butI've always used it.
You'll be shot a lot fasterthan you can even load your
arrow.
I'm just going to go ahead andtell you that's what's going to
happen, right?
Speaker 2 (30:14):
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Speaker 1 (30:22):
From creation to distribution, we but I mean, I
think that's a big topic ofconversation today.
You talk about like and howlike.
We actually have been throughthis with podcast videos the
reality of AI, the reality ofautomated processes, the reality
of technology continuing toadvance.
(30:44):
I mean like, if we don't adaptto that, we will not even have a
company to engage with.
It's just what has to happen.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
I get it.
We're going through the samething at Janus Motorcycles with
this MRP system.
You have to.
If we cannot get thatimplemented, we can't go back to
the old paper system and oneperson knows where everything is
and this guy drives around withbins and takes them to a place
to fill them up with parts orwhatever.
Not going to work anymore.
(31:13):
That only takes you to acertain level.
Yeah then if you want to gobeyond that, you've got to have
these systems.
It takes a wholesale change ofeverything.
Not everybody gets on boardwith that.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
No, no, they're very resistant and I mean, okay, but
there is no other option.
I I we know that?
Speaker 3 (31:30):
yeah, do they know that?
No, they don't really know that.
How do we get them to?
Speaker 1 (31:33):
understand?
No, they don't really know that.
How do we?
Speaker 3 (31:35):
get them to understand that you know.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
I think that part of that is you know what we're
trying to exercise, at least,like I get it right, like if I
can understand there's a threatto maybe what I have been doing
in my role, that technology caneither automate or the burden of
learning a new tool.
I mean, all those things arereally challenging.
(31:57):
I think the thing about it isfirst, you have to establish a
culture of embracing andevolving with those changes.
You have to have speed as oneof your top pillars.
Oh.
God, thank you.
Speed, speed, speed, speed,speed.
That that ability torelentlessly change and adapt,
(32:19):
and that is who we are and whatwe do, period.
And so in our I agree onpodcast videos I'm like guys,
look, this is a fast-movingindustry, right?
If you can't like this isn'tthe right place for you, yeah,
exactly, this isn't.
I mean like you are not goingto be happy.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
So it kind of goes back to choosing the right
people I've always wanted tohave speed awards for people in
the company who demonstrate thatthey do things quickly, yeah,
okay, yeah, whether that'sresponding to a customer or
changing something that's broken, or whatever speed, speed speed
is all about in, in every, inevery nook and cranny of every
(32:54):
business going on today.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Like that is because of what technology is doing to
the like.
You have to have that as one ofyour top pillars.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
You do, you're right, but you know that.
Again, though, is a great.
I'm glad you brought that up,because that's one of the great
things about being a smallbusiness.
Oh yeah, we can be faster andmore fleet and more responsive
than big companies.
They've got all that investmentand that sunk cost and that old
way of doing things.
If you think it's hard tochange this in a 20 person
(33:24):
company, try doing it in a 20000, 100, okay that is your
cutting edge advantage of asmall business.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
That's it right there .
Yeah it, because you don't needto dart around.
Yeah, it is, and I'll be honestwith you.
What we're experiencing withtech is allowing smaller
companies to be even faster thanwhat they've ever been able to
be before, and to your pointthey can beat.
I mean, you can enter into themarket as a small, two-person,
five-person company, leveragingall the technology and kick the
(33:53):
butts out of me.
Yeah, it's pretty awesome itreally is.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
I mean, that's so exciting, yeah, but we've got to
get everybody to see that.
We've got to get everybody tounderstand that.
We've got to get everybody tounderstand that they will
benefit personally.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
So, to that point, this one of our exercises, our
workshop, right A workingsession, to where you get on
your computer we have somebodythat's consulting or talking and
doing the workshop for us.
That's going to have us get ourhands on the keyboard and
create a process and the wholeteam will experience that as a
(34:32):
group.
It's like a hackathon.
It's like a hackathon.
It is like a hackathon.
Yeah, here's the problem, gosolve it.
Yeah, we go solve it.
We solve it together.
It gets you familiar, it takesyou out of being isolated and
overwhelmed by it.
And then this negative feedbackthat happens underground Well,
I didn't do that.
(34:52):
I don't have enough time, I'mnot getting paid enough.
I don't have enough time, I'mnot getting paid enough, I don't
have enough time.
Oh my God.
You know all these negativethings that breed in the culture
.
But if we bring everybodytogether and say, guys, look, we
as a team are doing this, Ilove it.
This is brand new for everyone,right?
So let's get in here and getthis figured out, and then it
(35:13):
exposes them, and then they havethe confidence, then they can
see like, oh, this will help meout, this is actually going to
save me a lot of time.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
We started watching a really good documentary I
haven't finished it yet onTwitter and how they started it.
I don't know if you've seen itno, I haven't seen it but I mean
they were working on otherproblems completely when their
whole business model justevaporated overnight.
Yeah, and then they're like,okay, now what are we going to
do?
And they just came up withideas.
Everybody come up with ideas.
(35:42):
Okay, let's come up with a newapplication, let's come up with
a new, you know, program.
Yeah, and they did it.
Yeah, okay, it's very exciting.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Oh, I think there's a whole different level of
thinking that's happening inSilicon Valley and I think that
is what probably the apex of itall is is that a lot of these
companies start without knowingwhat the product is.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
They just have a general idea, or using tech
stack or whatever it might be,or they got really talented
people yeah.
There's a market problem to gosolve.
We don't know exactly what ourend product is, but having that
freedom to just get together andfigure it out together as a
team is what's driving a lot ofthese highly innovative, big
(36:29):
freaking exiting companies,because it's not only Twitter,
but a lot of these companies arein the same thing, like Airbnb,
uber all of them, like you know, like didn't really have Uber
when they first started out withthis perfect thesis plan and
forecast model eBay didn'teither.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
I mean, they're selling.
You know, the guy came up withit to sell his girlfriend's Pez
dispensers or whatever.
That was the foundation of it,yeah, and then it just drives
everything.
Yeah, yeah, that's exciting.
So, yeah, this is reallyinteresting.
Um, a few other things here.
Uh, top-ranked small businessesoffer flexibility, ownership
(37:07):
and mental health support.
According to the Times, uk bestsmall companies yeah, within a,
within a some constraints.
I mean, I, you know theflexibility is great, but the
problem, I think, with a lot ofpeople with their idea of
(37:27):
flexibility is that my work is40 hours and then I want you to
be flexible within the 40 hours.
How much I do?
I got a problem with that Ifyour work is unlimited, your
work time, and you want to beflexible and you get done a lot
of stuff because you're workingall the time or you're taking
(37:49):
off for two hours but thenyou're coming back to it, yeah,
eight o'clock at night orwhatever.
Yeah, that's a different thing.
Totally be flexible within my40 hours so I really don't have
to work 40 hours, right, right,I think that's what a lot of
people's idea is, unfortunatelywell, it kind of goes back to
about what?
Speaker 1 (38:06):
what is that person, what is their perspective about
what their work really is like?
Why are they working?
I mean, like, what have theybeen taught?
What are their beliefs?
Like all those types of thingsthat impact that flexibility.
It can be abused really quickly, boy.
It can.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
And the railing against the man.
Yeah, the man is here toexploit me, as opposed to.
I can work this system to myown benefit, right?
It's just, you know, when theyhave the attitude that they're
being exploited and they thinklike a factory worker from 1900,
(38:44):
okay, you know, I guess that'spart of the programming we were
talking about earlier where youmay not be able to overcome that
, no matter how much informationand visioning and team building
and everything that you do, youmay not be able to overcome,
which is unfortunate because itreally impacts ends up impacting
(39:05):
that team member more than itimpacts anybody else.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, because the ship will keep sailing, you know
, if under the right leadershipand right and drive right.
Yeah, uh, you know, and that'sum, I have seen that happen over
and over again with individualsthat that have the incorrect
programming as to the intent ofa company and its growth, but
they're bringing in baggage fromfrom previous things or from
(39:29):
things that they've been taughtand they've understood and it's
well, that's, that's whatbusiness is all about.
That's huge Business like in.
You know, I think that's finein your perspective, a lot of
small business owners'perspectives.
They're starting it becausethey see something, yeah, and
they're trying to solve it andthey just want the best for
everyone and everything.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
Yeah, they're not just starting it to make a lot
of money, right.
That's the thing people don'tunderstand.
It's the same thing.
I again sorry for thedistraction.
Yeah, but it's just like youknow.
People complain about the cityof fayetteville and how
difficult it is to be a realestate developer.
Their development projects,they're harder to do than they
are here in benton county.
So you guys are getting morebusiness.
(40:08):
You could.
You know that's.
Yeah, yeah, right, so but herethe problem in the city of
Fayetteville with the staff, theplanning department, the
engineering, building safety,whatever the attitude is that if
you are a real developer, thatyou are only a developer because
you're greedy and want to makea lot of money.
(40:29):
It's usually way down on thelist.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
It is they just one bad.
Half a spool is a whole bunch,right, you want to?
Speaker 3 (40:33):
improve the city.
You, it is they just one bad,okay, spools a whole bunch,
right.
You, you want to improve thecity.
You want to provide housing forpeople who need it.
You want to have a better placeto shop, or I mean there's.
You have this vision for whatthe city could be and how these
things could be used and how it.
The money is not the primarydriver, but the implicit
assumption is that you're eviland greedy, and I think a lot of
(40:56):
workers think like that abouttheir owners.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
I agree 100%.
You know, I would end this withthis statement.
I really think that thispodcast topic should be, instead
of how does a company engageemployees?
It's really, how do employeesengage with a company?
Employees it's really how doemployees engage with the
company.
Because if you ask my opinionas being a small business owner
(41:19):
for a number of years, that'smore of the problem In all
honesty.
I mean I'll just be.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Well, they got to select the industry they've got
a passion for.
You already said that Exactly,but so many times people come to
a company with wrong intentions.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Yeah, Like can we reverse this societal
perspective here in a way?
I mean, I know it's, it'stouchy, but I mean, like my
experience has shown a lot oftimes, when people, when things
don't work out, it's theindividual person coming to a
small business that is notreally wanting to engage with
(41:52):
the business, they are doing itfor whatever other reason and it
makes this friction type ofscenario.
When the reality is is whenI've seen on the opposite side,
with people that have engagedwith the business have been
rewarded tremendously.
Speaker 3 (42:08):
Yeah, with experience , money, growth and career, and
so well, maybe they want alifestyle job.
Really, I want to be a musician, yeah, but I need this job so I
can pay my rent and yeah, andeat or whatever, yeah, okay,
okay, that's bad, okay, we'renot.
Well, I mean, we're not lookingfor people like that in our
(42:30):
company, right, right, we'relooking for people who want to
get more out of it than that.
It's not just a means of ofexistence yes, and I think that
that's a big.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
That's kind of goes at one point like where is now,
are there positions and roles ofwhere that can be it right,
it's just yeah, maybe you workin the mail room and it's only
open eight hours a day orwhatever.
Everybody's fine.
You're not trying to go.
I'm not trying to make you goplaces.
Yeah, exactly, we're all goodHandshake and done.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
Yeah, but you're going to make 15 bucks an hour.
Don't expect to get more thanthat.
Yeah, okay, like, have theright expectations.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Yeah, exactly Right, it's about like being married.
What are our expectations here?
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Well, it always comes back to getting the right
people.
Yeah, and, like you said,they've got to have, they've got
to be making good decisions onwhat kind of organizations
they're joining.
Do you think maybe wemisrepresent what the situation
is in an attempt to sell peopleto come to our company?
Speaker 1 (43:26):
I think I have misrepresented much more than I
have represented correctly.
Like I mean, actually it comesdown to the interview process.
Like I don't think about itwhen it's time for interview.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
It's always fun.
It's going to be fun to workhere.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Yeah, man, I got this going on and I'm over here all
excited, but I'm not ever askingquestions about what are your
ambitions, what are you tryingto accomplish?
You know, because I think thatit's really important.
I have gotten better over theyears.
My interviews now look like hey, look, I'm like.
Here's my interview process.
Now, listen, I just want you toknow, interviewee, this is
(43:58):
going to be the hardest workthat you've ever done in your
life.
Yeah, Like I expect everythingyou know and I am unrealistic
and we're going to go to the.
And like I'm doing everythingthat everyone's telling me that
cannot be done.
Right, I'm looking for a teamof rising stars to join me in
this fight.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Yeah, If we're going to the moon.
If you think that's notpossible to go to the moon, and
it's all fake.
Don't join this team, man.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Don't come on board.
That is kind of my interviewprocess now, but I think that my
attempt there is to set alittle bit of expectation that
this is not the mailroom job,expectation that this is not a
the mailroom job.
Yeah, you know, because likeyou're gonna hurt, we're gonna
hurt each other.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
If we're right, if we do that?
No, you're absolutely right.
I I love that.
Well, I think we're afraid todo that because or a lot of us
are because the labor pool istight, yeah you know we're, but
or at least we think it's tight.
I don't think it's as tight aspeople think, because I think
they've got the wrong criteriahalf the time.
They're looking for educationand experience instead of
(45:00):
attitude and drive andpersonality attributes.
That's all I'm looking for, man, you know Attitude?
Yeah, I believe that,unfortunately, we're out of time
.
We need to say goodbye to ourlisteners.
So goodbye listeners, goodbyelisteners, until next week.
It's been another episode ofBig.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Talk about Small Business.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
about Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to our website,
wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscomand click on the Ask the Host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk About Small
(45:55):
Business and be sure to headover to our website to read
articles, browse episodes andask questions about upcoming
shows.
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