July 2, 2025 • 44 mins
The truth about entrepreneurship isn't pretty, but it's powerful. In this raw, unfiltered conversation, we tear away the glossy veneer of business ownership to reveal what actually drives success and why so many well-intentioned ventures fail.
At the heart of entrepreneurial struggle lies a fundamental misunderstanding about mindset. Are you a wolf with eyes fixed forward on the hunt, or a horse with eyes on the sides constantly watching for threats? This distinction between entrepreneur and investor thinking could save you years of frustration and financial hardship. As we reveal, many aspiring business owners approach their ventures with completely wrong expectations, trying to extract corporate-level salaries while avoiding the sacrifice required for growth.
The financial reality? Thirty percent of small business owners take nothing from their companies, reinvesting everything while living on credit cards and personal debt. Those who succeed understand that protecting the business comes before personal comfort. The statistics are sobering – only half of businesses survive five years, and merely 30% reach the decade mark. Yet these aren't just numbers; they represent dreams extinguished largely because owners misunderstood what entrepreneurship truly demands.
Work-life balance? A myth, according to our discussion. True entrepreneurs integrate their passion into every waking moment, not counting hours because the distinction between work and life blurs completely. This isn't a sacrifice they resent but a choice they embrace because they're playing the long game – building something with substantial future value rather than maximizing immediate returns.
Whether you're contemplating your first business venture or reassessing your approach to an existing one, this episode provides the unvarnished truth about what it takes to succeed. And here's the good news: 64% of successful small businesses start with less than $10,000. The barrier isn't capital – it's commitment and clarity about what game you're really playing.
Ready to face the roses and thistles of business ownership? Subscribe, share your entrepreneurial journey with us, and join the conversation about what it truly means to build something that lasts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And if you're an investor or that's what you're
actually you have a dream tomake a lot of money and you're
investor thinking then you needto be an investor and know how
to play that game and not thinkthat you're an entrepreneur,
you're not an entrepreneur.
Yeah, you're an investor, right.
And if you're an entrepreneur,you're not an investor.
You're an entrepreneur, youknow.
(00:20):
I mean, like you need to know,yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
You make a really good point, you know.
I mean like you needed no kindof no, you make a really good
point.
I never really thought aboutthat.
Yeah baby, yeah baby.
We are back in the studio withanother episode of Big Talk on
Small Business.
I'm here with my co-host, hey,mark Pleasure to be here as your
(00:45):
co-host.
Hi, mark, pleasure to be here asyour co-host today, sir Eric
Howerton and we're in Eric'sstudio for his small business
one of them that he has, whichis called PodcastVideoscom,
which is doing, I think, verywell, they continue to grow.
I think very well, theycontinue to grow.
They continue to get moretraction with their complete
(01:07):
range of services that theyprovide to anybody who wants to
do a podcast, as well as otherstuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Anything, we call it conversational video,
conversational video.
Yeah, I mean, it applies to alot of different things, you
know.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I mean, this business is something else.
How many employees have you gotover here now?
I think we have nine.
Nine employees in this location, yep, and five or six different
recording venues in thelocation.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Mm-hmm In this one and we got things that are
popping outside of the studio.
Yep, we're setting up smallerstudios, we do custom studio bed
out.
So we're setting up smallerstudios, we do custom studio bed
out.
So one thing we've been talkingabout is kind of like the home
theater thing.
We can come set up a videopodcast at your house your
business.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
It'd probably be a great place just to do your
Skype or your Zoom calls.
Right, you've got a good studio.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
It goes across so many different spectrums.
That's why it's kind of likeconversational video is kind of
a big umbrella.
Right, I should have you dothat at my house.
You should, because it's notmuch and we can also like, if
you do any recordings, you cansend all your files and we do
all your post-processingdistribution.
Yeah, we can help withpre-planning all that type of
stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Well, thank God, you guys Thank God, you guys are our
number one sponsor of the show.
You sure are.
I mean, there's no questionabout that.
So we're thankful topodcastvideoscom for what you do
for Big Talk about smallbusiness Absolutely man, happy
to do it.
So today we're going to talkabout the roses and thistles of
(02:40):
business ownership.
What do you think about?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
that I don't think there's many roses.
There's a lot more thistlesthan roses.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Well, there's some roses.
Sometimes roses don't smell sogood.
No, they don't Right.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, I mean you're looking for the roses at all
times.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
That's very true, so yeah, thank God Sam, who's again
part of podcast videos.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, provides these show notes for us and gives us
some bullet point topics withsome stats, which is really cool
.
It is.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
She's getting into this man.
I mean, she did some researchon this one.
I like this.
Let's just dive into it.
Let's do it the financialrealities of business ownership.
The average annual salary we'llsay earnings for small business
owners is approximately $69,119, with 86% earning under
$100,000.
(03:29):
And the source of that isEntrepreneurs HQ.
You know, 30% of small businessowners don't take anything out
of the company, reinvestinginstead in their business.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yes, so want to comment on that?
Yeah, I do.
I mean I think that number one.
I definitely agree with this.
To comment on that?
Yeah, I do.
I mean, I think that number one, I definitely agree with this.
Like so, there was a longperiod of time in my first
businesses where I didn't takeanything.
I didn't take earnings, salary,any of that.
It was always reinvesting thebusiness.
That's actually the case fortoday too, like for podcast
videos.
(03:59):
Sure is that I own.
I don't take anything out ofthe company.
It's all reinvested.
You know, I'm either investingin it or I'm investing in
another team member to come intothe business to continue to
help grow that business.
And I know, at White Spiderback in the early days, I mean,
there was a period of years ifyou added them all up together
(04:20):
it was probably three and a halfyears worth of where I did not
take any money.
I've just lived off creditcards or other types of debt.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
You know and just you were always going for the big
payoff at the end.
To me, that's the classicentrepreneurial mindset it's not
what I get out of it now, it'swhat the payoff is at the end
when I exit.
Now a lot of small businessowners don't think like that.
They think it's what I can getout of it right now.
Yeah, that hurts the business,I think.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
It does.
And I think that, if you know,and now there were periods where
I was making, you know, asalary that was less than
$100,000 a year, for sure, isprobably around the lines of
that $69,000, where I could ekea living by, and then I would
just stack debt on top of that.
You know, credit cards, I mean,I was really good at like a
(05:08):
Walmart credit card I had, youknow, I had gas cards.
I had.
Oh yeah, man, capital oneshields cards, what, bass pro,
didn't matter.
Every bit of credit you can get.
Anything I can get, man, yeah,I get it, and I would just kind
of, you know, ping pong back andforth from them and and just
try to make, make it happen, man, you know well I, you know you,
(05:30):
I can't say I.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I was exactly like that in my businesses.
Now you also got a biggerpayoff at the end.
Um, by doing what you did withyour business, particularly
white spider not Not to say Idid fine, I mean I sold my
business twice.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Which is not bad.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
That's awesome man.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
But that wasn't always the case for me.
I was making a pretty goodchunk of money when I started my
business Well right before,because I was unemployed.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
And I certainly took a low salary but I made it back
the first year.
Yeah, and you know you don'tnecessarily have to take a vow
of poverty.
No, because I've had goodsalaries out of my companies and
plenty of benefits and things.
I think it kind of depends onthe business.
But you know, I was always toldI could take more out.
(06:26):
We were in the reinvestmentmode.
We didn't want to have a lot ofdebt, right Okay, and wanted to
keep the place growing so therewould be some value at the end
of the game.
Believe it to you and I think alot of it, though.
A lot of small businesses howmuch money they make.
You know in large part it'stheir own fault if they're not
(06:48):
making any money out of thebusiness.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
That's fair, I mean, don't you think no, a hundred
percent, and I think that youcan.
You know, the cool thing that Ithink you can do is is you can
actually you don't.
I would say, don't look at itas like this consistent salary
that you're getting every monthover month.
You know, no matter what youknow, you're basically You've
got to take care of the businessfirst, that's right, and you
(07:12):
also Not your personal needs,yeah, and you have to be dynamic
in the sense of where is itbetter that you're getting paid
or that you bring anotherresource on and pay that person?
Oh, no question about it.
You know, because sometimes,like you can like, the whole
intent is to grow that business.
You know, are you, you know, a$120,000 person's salary away
(07:33):
from really going over the nexthurdle?
That person has the credibility, qualifications, the network,
you know, the salesmanship totake that business to the next
level, because that has multiple, multiple compounding interest.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, it is no, that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, you're just investing in others and in the
market and in the materials andequipment, whatever.
It is Yep To get over thosehurdles.
Yep, and you being and I guessthe point of it is is that your
salary is part of thatcompounding interest equation.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
It is, yeah, the less you take out, the more you got
to fuel your growth and valueand value, yeah, creation.
There's no question about that.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
It does put it's hard for, I think, spouses to
understand that.
I mean, you know like a spousethat is not in a small business,
they're not an entrepreneurthemselves.
You know like a spouse that isnot in a small business, they're
not an entrepreneur themselves.
Right, because it's definitelynot the norm of the masses of
how people look at a career Yep,and pay, yeah, compensation.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
And they look at that spouse and think, oh, you're so
talented, you could have a goodjob.
Yeah, and you could.
You could.
Yeah, you could be working forXYZ and make it $250,000 a year.
Why are you doing this?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, it's because at XYZ Company I can't make
millions, exactly.
You know, there's the payoff.
I'm on multi-millions, right?
Millions of dollars, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Because then you can take that and keep you doing
more right, continue to invest,but no, that's I mean, that's
that's it, there's no questionabout it.
I mean, where I say I think alot of small business owners
could do better.
I think a lot of them reallydon't think about things like
how critical the growth is totheir profitability.
In other words, pursuing growthmakes making profits easier,
yeah, and if your goal, though,is the profitability, then you
don't necessarily get the growthright.
(09:27):
So that's one thing, that theywhere they really screw up, and
the other thing, I think, isjust pricing, yeah, just not
charging enough for what they do.
I see that all the time.
Like there was a guy that had asandwich shop.
It was attached to the sitcostation in dover, massachusetts,
where I lived, and what was insherburne?
Dover sherburne are two sistercommunities, that kind of work
(09:49):
together.
They got a common school systemin the boston metro west area,
very, very affluent, okay, likemy next door neighbor was pierre
dupont the fifth, okay, oh yeah.
So that's the kind ofneighborhoods you have, and
they've got one place in townthat has carryout food, and
that's this Italian restaurantattached to the Citgo station,
(10:12):
which is like the Citgo station.
I mean it's like everythinghappens there, okay, everything.
They had movie rental, they hada Dunkin' Donuts drive-thru
window, they had everythingthere.
But my point is the food wasgreat Unbelievable sandwiches
and pasta dishes and things.
It was all too cheap, yeah, andthere'd be a line out the
(10:34):
frigging door and you've gotthese customers that make a lot
of money.
I would say to the guy thatowns the place I'm like, dude,
raise all your prices.
Yeah, oh, I don't want to dothat.
I don't want to scare people.
I'm like we're not here becauseit's cheap, we're here because
it's convenient, yeah, okay.
And it's good, yeah, okay, okay.
So we pay for those things.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Raise your price.
I mean the guy you know.
I think at the time this goesback to, let's say, the late 90s
he was making $108,000 orwhatever.
I bet you could have made$208,000.
Probably $300,000 out of thatbusiness.
Yeah, with the volume that hewas doing just by changing his
pricing, yep you know 100% youwas doing just by changing his
(11:17):
pricing.
Yep, you know they're afraid toask 100, but anyway.
So the financial realities.
Yeah, you got to makesacrifices if you want that
thing to grow.
That's all there is to it.
That's the the golden goose.
You can eat the eggs or you canlet them sit there right and
keep making more and making moreeggs.
That's it time commitment andwork-life balance.
(11:38):
Many small business owners work50 plus hours per week to
sustain operations.
I mean, that's according to thenew york post.
Yeah, that's a minimum in my.
I mean like 50 hours.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
That's all, that's it .
Right?
That's not much.
I don't think that's much.
No, and I mean it's, and it'sconstant, week over week, year
over year.
Yeah, I mean, you know, and Idon't even like that work-life
balance statement.
I mean that's like we couldscratch that off, right.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I mean we're not trying to get work-life balance
because we view them as the samething.
Yeah, yeah, I mean we're hereto work.
Yeah, work-life integration.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
That's it.
Man Do work you like.
Yeah, work as hard as you can.
Take a nap yeah, it's thatsimple, right it is.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I mean, think about that.
50 hours, like you could startat six and be done at four or
five days a week and be off allweekend.
What?
Yeah, that's kind of boringright?
I mean it's.
It doesn't sound like much, no,no is it?
Speaker 1 (12:34):
no, it doesn't.
I mean, and you know when Ithink that that kind of goes
back up to that the reality isthe finance because, like, not
only are you maybe not takingpay, but you're also working
more, and so this equation not?
I see a lot of peoplestruggling with that, with you
know, like if they're in acurrently employed and they're,
they have an idea and they wantto go out and start a business,
(12:54):
like they really battlethemselves, they spreadsheet
this out, they're like, know, Imean, I'm making this much now
and I need to be making you knowthis.
Like no, you need to go to thebare minimum, yes, and then just
completely wipe off thecalculation of the number of
hours that you're spending.
Like it does, it's, it'sinsignificant, doesn't even
matter, you don't even need tolook at it.
What?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
you've talked before about the people who leave
corporate america and eitherstart a new business or buy a
business or buy a franchise.
I think you captured theessence of why a lot of them
struggle well, I mean, there's alot of reasons they struggle,
right, they're used to havingall the support of a big company
and suddenly they're doingeverything on their own.
(13:34):
But the other reason is they'vegot this expectation that I'm
going to work less than I worknow at Megacorp and I'm going to
make the money I make atMegacorp.
Ain't going to happen, no.
So if you suck all that moneyout of your new business to
maintain the lifestyle that youhad working at Megacorp, you
probably right away got aproblem.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, and I think that.
So it kind of goes back to ourprevious conversations we had,
like, if you have this itch tostart a business, the itch means
you're trying to solve a marketproblem.
No one else is solving it.
You feel like you should gosolve it and there's a big
reward for it.
Right, and those rewards comefrom all kinds of things.
(14:19):
That's the reason that you jumpship, solve it and there's a
big reward for it.
Right, and those rewards comefrom all kinds of things.
That's the reason that you jumpship.
You don't need to try tocalculate Psychic rewards.
Yeah, man, like you don't, youshouldn't.
If you're trying to formulateyour experience as an
entrepreneur based upon whatyour experience is as an
employee, your experience as anentrepreneur based upon what
your experience is as anemployee, like you're not going
(14:39):
to find that perfect formula tojump over.
And if you think that you havethat's where I've seen a lot of
destruction Like I see a lot ofpeople that had that itch but
they've analyzed their idea outof not doing it because it
doesn't make sense financially.
Well, yeah, that never will.
Like you're not initially, yeah, not initially.
(15:01):
Right, right, right For sure.
Like you basically have, youknow, done a mathematical
equation that stops you fromdoing what your dream was.
So like that's a bad idea.
Don't even do that.
Yeah, don't you know?
You're right on with that.
And the second thing is is ifthey have found some way to
mathematically allow themselvesto go into business, that's
(15:22):
where the destruction starts.
So bringing that freaking mathequation from an employee in a
typical scenario to a businessis the most dangerous equation
you can sit down and try tofigure out.
Listen up people.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Okay, we're not here to tell you what you want to
hear about business ownership.
We're here to tell you therealities of business ownership.
Yeah, so you are equipped, yep,but you know as well as I do
most people.
They have too much personaloverhead and they load up on all
kinds of debt that theyshouldn't have.
I mean, it's one thing to oweon your house or whatever that's
(15:56):
an appreciating asset butpretty much everything else is
not worth owing on.
I mean, when you really comedown to it, it's really not.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I think that there's a gain to that.
Actually, I miss to be honestwith you, I miss a lot of the
debt overhead I had.
It was so motivating.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Well, the debt you talked about having and some of
the debt I had too, was relatedto not wanting to take money out
of the business.
Right, so I, in a sense, I waslike fueling the working capital
of the business, yeah, by like.
Here you got this taxobligation.
You can't take distributions tocover it, right, so I got to go
(16:34):
borrow on my credit cards topay it, yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, I get that.
Get those beautiful revolvingcredit cards are great they're
fantastic, right, there's nostrings, right.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
But if you're just doing it for personal
consumption, to maintain thelifestyle that you had when you
were a vice president atmegacorp or whatever, yeah,
that's a problem or, or you know, I mean I remember a lot of
times I would use the debt forthings that the family wanted or
needed, right, yeah, to kind ofwhat makes up for you not
making any money?
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I mean it's like to normally honestly, to sustain
the time so I can continue goingafter what I'm doing and
everybody's happy, for right nowit makes total sense.
But I do miss that pressure oflike oh man, like in this check
floating scenario, like of where, like I remember so, like every
week, multiple times a week, alot of times figuring out which
(17:25):
credit card I needed to pay onthis, really this date, and what
that minimum was, and then howmuch I needed to pull, like
here's the thing I'd pull fromthe business and pay myself,
based on what my minimumpayments were with my credit
cards to sustain another month,yeah, and then another month,
and there's just a cycle overand over and over again.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
But I was always just pulling basic, minimal stuff,
if you miss that you know I'vegot some businesses piece of
money we can load you up withdebt, all that you want.
Yeah, let's do it, baby, let'sgo that'll get you real
motivated.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
but I need to talk to the wife first about that,
that's how much of a sketch?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
That's gosh.
So yeah, it's going to taketime.
You're not going to make asmuch money, probably initially.
If you think long term, protectthe goose, that lays the golden
egg.
Get the big payoff.
That's entrepreneurship.
Yeah, 50 hours a week isnothing, nothing.
I don't even know what peoplesay, like how many hours a week
(18:21):
you work.
I always say I don't know, Ihave no idea.
You say the same thing, oh hell.
Yeah, it is so funny that thathow you and I have had so much
the same mentality and attitudetowards this stuff, right, and
we just totally different fromeverybody else but that's why
I'm doing this podcast with you,because you make me feel normal
(18:41):
it, but it's so true like wedon't know how many hours we
have no idea, because anytime Ialways say if I'm awake, I'm
probably working.
Yeah, I mean for all practicalpurposes I'm at least engaged
like.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
I'm checking emails, I'm checking text.
Yeah, exactly, you know I mean,or I'm planning, like my dream.
My favorite thing is when theteam has a vacation, like
tomorrow there's a holiday,juneteenth is happening, team's
off work Fantastic.
I will have some one-on-onetime with myself zoning in to
(19:13):
some projects.
Good for you.
Yeah, you know that I willaccomplish.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
But your projects will probably be like getting
your heavy equipment out.
Oh no, no, no, no, I'm talkingabout work projects.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Okay, okay, yeah, I'm going to figure out some things
.
That's required me to spendfour or five hours to sit there
and think when you've got thefocus, the time commitment yeah.
Yeah, but so that's an example.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Like I'm not counting those as hours of a week.
I get it, I know you knowexactly what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, it's just part of what's about.
Every sunday morning I get upwhen everybody else is sleeping
and I go hit a coffee shop and Iwork three or four hours.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, every sunday before they even get up for
years.
Yeah, you know, I got a new jobhere.
It's speaking of that um.
It was kind of cool, my um.
One of my daughters bought mefor father's day this thing.
Okay, I get this.
I'm like, geez, you got meanother freaking job, whereas
every week they ask me aquestion that I have to write up
(20:08):
the response to and then itputs it all in a book about you,
oh yeah like a legacy book,like, yeah, the stuff that
Duncan Stone does, is it aDuncan Stone thing?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Okay, but it's kind of cool, it's that they manage.
Basically, they manage you.
So every week you got to writeOkay, that's another job.
It's another job, I swear.
I mean, I'm sitting thereanswering these things and
spitting out a thousand words ata time.
Anyway, it is another job, butit's, it'll be cool because in
the end they'll actually it'slike first thing.
(20:40):
I was like you're, I'msurprised you want to know what
it was like for me as a kid.
Nobody ever asked me that mykids don't care about that.
You actually do.
No, wow, that's cool when yourdad don't care.
You know what was dad like?
But it is like another job.
Yeah, but it's interesting.
I thought it was a greatbusiness idea.
(21:02):
Yeah, to do this.
It is Okay, let's go back tothe real.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So the common challenges faced by small
business owners.
Top challenges includeinflation at 58%, revenue
concerns at 35%, employeebenefit costs at 14 percent,
access to financing at 14percent, and then supply chain
issues at 13.
Provided by back lingo, thestats were um.
So what are we supposed to say?
(21:28):
Right, you know?
I think this is a businessowner like the one thing there's
.
Honestly, there's only onething in here that I'm
constantly concerned about, andthat's revenue.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, I'm with you Like 100% of the time.
The rest of this stuff we cantake care of if we got the
revenue right.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yeah, that.
And also like, what can youreally like?
Revenue's the thing in yourcontrol?
Yeah, we can't controlinflation.
No, I can't control employeebenefit costs.
Yeah, no, I mean, I guess, well, maybe there's a part of me
that is always mindful of accessto financing, like I don't
think I'm constantly, I'm notworried about that or I'm not.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I am worried about that.
With some of the businesses I'massociated with yeah.
I've got one right now that'sgot an order from their bank to
go find a new bank.
Yeah, okay, that's find a newbank.
Yeah Okay, that's not a goodfeeling, you know I guess it's
about challenges, right?
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Like, yeah, your access to financing.
You know that is a challengethat you face, like when you are
tight on money, and like howyou're going to cover those
bridges.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, so there are a lot of challenges.
I mean these are all challenges.
I mean I'm kind of surprisedthat these are the top
challenges.
I would think the topchallenges are like
employee-related yeah, wouldn'tyou.
Oh, no, 100%.
I mean like those are thethings that really keep you
awake at night, as they say.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah, and I can't believe that that inflation
thing is like the challenge,like I mean I can't either.
Now I guess that there's.
You know it depends on yourindustry, right?
I mean I can see you know, likebrands, you know product
manufacturers, they obviouslythat's a huge one, and that
could be the majority of peoplethat responded to this.
Or you know maybe that there'sso many products that are out
(23:11):
there that masses are thinkingabout that right, like if you're
in some kind of commoditybusiness or something which
we're not.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Either of us never have been.
Um, the the supply chain issues, that those are real.
I mean that's that's reallycreated some havoc in the
manufacturing business and I'mpart of.
I mean it started with thetariffs, and then it then
suppliers saying well, we justwon't supply anything to you
anymore because your tariffs areso high.
(23:39):
That's going to kill our market, so we won't even make that.
Ok, that's what I think peopledidn't even think about.
Yeah, it's not like you canjust automatically buy stuff in
the US, right, even if you hadthe, we're willing to pay the
difference in price.
Yeah, yeah, that's a tricklepayment.
That's creating some supplychain.
I mean, truthfully, though, anyresponsible manufacturer should
(24:03):
have multiple sources for whatthey buy.
It's it?
This is just like a classicbusiness school case that you
allow yourself to be dependenton one company that's not going
to perform.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
You can't run your business you cannot, you cannot,
and I think that that that isnot going to perform.
You can't run your businesslike that, and I think that
that's not just you know.
I mean, like I think it's forany procurement, it's any
service that you have.
You've got to be thinking youhave to have plan B and C, amen,
locked and loaded, and not onlyfor when the bad happens, but
also, I think, to keep yourcurrent one accountable.
(24:38):
Exactly.
It's like, bro, you thinkyou're the only freaking
accountant that exists.
Now, I know, are you serious?
It's so true?
Yeah, just to keep the Justremember, I got two people I can
holler at.
I've talked to them.
I'll let them know.
I talked to them.
Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
No, you're right on with that, all right.
Take the next one mark businesslongevity and survival rates.
50 of small businesses survivefive years.
Only 30 reach the 10-year mark.
Of course, it goes down whenyou, once you go up to 20, 30
years, whatever.
Yeah, I'm proud to say one ofmy businesses is going to turn
37 years old this year.
That that is.
That is.
That's a lot of time, man.
(25:18):
I'm I'm not the owner.
It's gone through multipletransitions at this point, yeah,
but you found it.
It's carrying on.
I did co-founded it with, withFred White, right?
Actually, I started it first.
Then I hired Fred Okay, for thefirst three years I was a
hundred percent, oh wow years.
(25:40):
I was 100, oh, wow, yeah.
Then I incorporated I mean,fred was there early, yeah,
within several months, maybethree or four months of starting
it.
He was pivotal dude.
Congratulations, man.
37 years, yeah, 37 years.
So why don't they last?
Why do businesses flame out,you?
You think?
Speaker 1 (25:53):
man, I think that well.
So I think on that firstbracket there, five years you
know the 50% that get knockedout in the first five years I
think a lot of that is just justpure stamina.
Yeah, you know, I mean, like toyour point earlier, like so
many folks don't understand howhard it is, how much time it
(26:15):
takes and how little money thatyou're going to have and how
much you have to invest in thatbusiness.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Don't you love these things where these experts
advise you to have like a year'sworth of your operating
expenses stuff decided.
I mean like who does, who does?
No one can I mean who no work,yeah yeah, that's it over,
you'll never start anythingexactly, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I mean, it's like we're gonna do, like that's a
that's that's.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I love those things, though you must have six months
of operating expenses in cash.
I've had students recitenumbers like that to me.
I I don't know where they heardthem, but they read them
somewhere.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Well, I mean, you know it's coming from like
academia, like too much thoughtand consideration.
You're overanalyzed whenreality is the only answer is
you need to be a freakingfighting, like a freaking dog.
Yeah, werewolf man, like justrelentless Werewolf in London,
that's it.
It was a great movie.
Like just fight, Like Are youready to fight?
Yeah, and put everything on theline and you really need to.
(27:13):
I wonder how many.
You don't tell other peoplethat, but I guess to me it's
like when you see something thatyou want to do, do you worry
about all these what-ifscenarios or do you just see the
thing that you're wanting to do, yeah, and then when you jump
into, that like, Once you jumpin, then you got to start
thinking about all the what-ifs.
(27:33):
Yeah, yeah, but you've jumped innow.
You've jumped in like too lateto go back.
You're in the frying pan, dude.
Here's a funny thing, though,that I've been actually
struggling with since the saleof White Spider and starting up
businesses over again.
I know all the what ifs, or alot more of the what ifs.
It's been a much interestingride.
(27:56):
I'm like I know I'm going to dothis, but I'm like damn man.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
It's not the same thing.
It's not the same.
It's not, is it?
It's so true, God?
It's the same thing 100%.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Now I'm like damn it, it's almost, it's funny, it's
like there's, I'm out of controlof it.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah, you realize that the odds are that all your
successor businesses won't be assuccessful as your first one.
And they're costing and I'mlike and you know more and you
put more money into them.
Yeah, god, and I'm working hardand long.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, and I'm working hard and long.
Yeah, you know, and I don't.
That's been my experience, andhere's the thing you don't have
to do this?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, I know, but you do because you are who you are.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah, it's like I'm out of control, like there's
another personality in me,that's you know.
But the thing is it's like allthese what ifs, like I'm a
little bit more, I guess,concerned and fearful.
You got more to lose.
That's why, yeah, and I knowthat it can be yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
This is what keeps us awake at night.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
This is actually a really really good conversation
that you understand I'm going.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I do.
I've got my personal guaranteeon a line of credit for one of
these businesses and I couldsurvive it if I lost that, but
God, it would be painful, really, really painful.
Did you have to do that?
No, I didn't have to do that.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I know why are we doing it.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I don't really know Like it makes no logical sense,
because that's what we do.
You know, I think you know backon this, this five-year
survival train now, um, and youknow, and what you're saying,
like you, you're, you're like awerewolf, I mean.
I remember when I started thecompany that's why group today I
was unemployed.
(29:45):
I got fired from a job that Iwas doing a great job at.
Oh okay, okay, that wasn't Iwas doing a great job.
Why did you?
I had turned it around.
It was a family enterprise andthat the guy's family members
didn't like me, got a littlejelly.
I put pressure on them to dothings.
I found all kinds of stuff,okay, like what's this?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
yeah I can see you dig it into some.
You went to some rabbit holesthat you weren't embodied into
that's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Right, but I was doing a great job, okay.
Now the thing is, I swore thatwould never happen to me again.
Yeah, so my option, my choice,was not start my own business or
get another job.
I'm like bullshit on anotherjob I was never going to, I'm
never going to take that.
I did that and I got screwed.
Okay, ain't't gonna happen yeahso that's the fight comes from
(30:33):
that.
Yeah, I think a lot of people,like you said, though they start
these businesses, they don'tride it out.
They don't have the stamina,because they're really not that
committed to be in that business.
Maybe they did it because theythought it was good financially
or was in the market, needed it,or whatever, but they aren't
(30:54):
personally like committed tolook what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
This is really good.
There's actually like threetiers in my brain, because
employee mindset yep.
Entrepreneurial mindset yep.
And then there's another one,an investor mindset, and I think
it's so important for ourlisteners to understand which
one are you and be real withthat, because you're going to
(31:20):
screw yourself royally if youdon't choose the right path.
If you're an employee wantingto be an entrepreneur, do you
know what that means and youdon't go into entrepreneurship
with an employee mindset.
If you're an employee wantingto be an entrepreneur, do you
know what that means and youdon't go into entrepreneurship
with an employee mindset?
No, if you're an employee, butyou're really thinking like an
investor.
You are not an entrepreneur,you're an investor because you
(31:43):
don't want to work that hard.
You want to watch your moneywork Exactly.
You want to be out of thebusiness.
You want to sit on a board.
You want to be out of thebusiness.
Yeah, I'm going to sit on aboard.
You want to make somecontrolling decisions, just so
you protect your money, but ithas nothing to do with the grind
and the freaking guts and thevision.
Yeah, like you don't.
You don't and you need to stay.
Stay the hell out of the way.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, as much as you are in, it's hard to imagine
that it is, even when you putthe money in.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Because your tendency is going to be I want
involvement so okay for peoplelike us, well, yeah, but I think
that there's a hybrid there,though, but I think, no, there's
like there's an entrepreneur,investor mindset.
But honestly, like what Ifigured out, yeah, is that, if
I'm an investor, yeah insomething I'm more so of an
(32:31):
entrepreneur, entrepreneur,business-minded person.
That's why I'm invested more inmy own business.
Yeah, because you feel like yougot control over it?
Yeah, because I can't.
Yeah, I have to control it.
Yeah, I understand what I'msaying like and I'm more
confident to put money, that Iknow what I'm putting money into
.
Amen, as an investor if I throwmoney over the tape, over the
line, like I honestly don't havethe time to be involved, but I
(32:52):
also recognize that I'm aninvestor.
In that point it's like thepublic stock market.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Okay, it's a great example, yeah, right, yeah, you
put money into that.
Somebody else always knows morethan you.
You're not involved in themanagement of Apple Corporation
or whatever.
Right, that's right.
Yeah, apple Corporation orwhatever right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
And if you're an investor or that's what you're
actually you have a dream tomake a lot of money and you're
investor thinking then you needto be an investor and know how
to play that game and not thinkthat you're an entrepreneur.
You're not an entrepreneur,You're an investor.
And if you're an entrepreneur,you're not an investor, You're
(33:30):
an entrepreneur.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
You know what I mean, like you need to know kind of,
yeah, you know you make a reallygood point.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I never really thought about that.
Yeah, I think I've shared thisquote, one of my favorite quotes
.
Investors are like horses.
They have eyes on both sides oftheir head, yeah, watching to
be what's they're going totackle them, so they watch their
money.
Right, that's what you do.
Like what, what are y'all ygoing to lose on my money?
Right, that's all they thinkabout, right?
And entrepreneurs are likewolves with eyes on the front of
their face, going out to hunt.
They're not worried aboutwhat's going to kill them,
(33:56):
they're just looking to kill.
You know what I'm saying, andso?
But there's a tension there.
Yeah, there is Between them,and I think, if you, it's just
like an employee starting abusiness wrong expectations.
I want to make a lot of money,I want to earn my salary, I got
to pay for my lifestyle.
You're already thinking wrong.
You're not an entrepreneurialthinker, then.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
This is what I don't like about so many franchise
businesses.
I'm not saying that they needto be viewed like that, yeah but
I think the people who areattracted to them in many cases
have this orientation of I'mgoing to get so much money out
of this thing, I'm not going tobe that involved with it.
Okay, it's going to be easybecause it's in a can.
(34:40):
They're doing everything for me, and yet you, you'll do a lot
better with the um franchisebusiness If you think like an
entrepreneur, oh yeah, and throwyourself into it.
Don't suck the money out of it,yeah it's just like any other
business, right those are theones that end up with like 27
mcdonald's or theirentrepreneurial thing, 30 slim
(35:03):
chickens or whatever.
Yeah, right, yeah, they'regetting it.
Yeah, they're getting it, yeah.
But then you got those otherpeople that they buy this, the
slim chickens or whatever, andthey suck.
They go.
Well, I made $250,000 a year atABC Corp, so I'll take $225,000
a year out of this slim.
No, you're an investor.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Like that's what private equity groups are for,
that's what funds are for.
Yeah, Like you need to be partof that.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Right, or four, like you need to be part of that,
right?
You got somebody out there'swatching, though.
Yeah, somebody is right,exactly yeah.
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Speaker 1 (35:49):
All right, so time for a couple more, my friend.
So I do like this next onefunding and financial management
.
64% of small businesses startwith less than $10,000.
33% with under $5,000.
From Entrepreneurial HQ.
Love that stat Me too, becauseit is data about what we say all
(36:13):
the time yeah, you don't need aton of money, you don't start a
billion freaking dollars.
Yeah, and go on a pitch deckraise yep, you know, unless
you're starting, you knowcertain things, like a
pharmaceutical company.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I always use that as an example.
Yeah, it takes five or tenyears to get through the FDA.
Five and $5 billion.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Yeah, that's a hard one to start.
That's a hard one to start.
We're not going to make that.
No, no, but like, if you'rehaving an itch to solve a
problem, it doesn't need to be apharmacy, like that's pretty
big thinking, I know.
You know, like I'm a chemistand I have a problem to solve,
you go down that round.
That's a whole differentballgame.
(36:57):
Yeah, it is.
You know, 64% of thesebusinesses that are out there
are starting less with $10,000.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
That should be comforting.
Yeah, I see my students do that.
Sometimes it's like I have tosay look, that's too big of a
problem.
It's like I'm going to solveworld hunger.
No, you're not going to.
Okay, that's just too big of aproblem to tackle.
Yeah, let's come up withsomething that's a little more
manageable, that maybe we couldconceivably do without a lot of
money.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
I think this next one is really relevant
Technological adaptation incybersecurity.
Over 60% of small businessowners find it challenging to
keep up with technologicalchanges, especially AI source on
pay.
Yeah, I mean, it is a very bigchallenge, challenging to keep
up with technological changes,especially AI source on pay.
Yeah, I mean like it is a verybig challenge, and I look, eric,
I'm, you know about AI.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, you know something about it.
Yeah, I'm.
You got a company that'sworking in AI space.
I'm 67 years old.
I don't know anything about it.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
All I know is I was at a boardmeeting last week where the
company founder and CEO searchesAI to find out something about
(38:02):
where a statistic comes from.
Yeah, and it quoted our companyinaccurately.
Yeah, our company inaccurately.
And yeah, where there's onereference from 2018 of somebody
who wrote something in one ofour publications that's wrong.
Yeah, and none of the hundredsof other references where we
define how to do this.
(38:23):
Yeah, we're sorted, we're cited, and so that's why I, you know,
I always think, god, I know,ai's great, it can do a, b and c
, but those are the kinds ofthings that old farts like me
you think, boy, there's got tobe.
It also can perpetuate a lot ofmisinformation, can it?
Oh, no, no, it could, and andbad stuff.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
There is a uh, there is an absolute level of
professionalism.
It's like anything else, likeyou know, sure, anybody can make
a cup of coffee, but did you doit right?
Did you roast?
How are the beans roasted?
How are they ground?
When did you grind them?
What temperature of water?
What temperature of water?
Right, all those things?
(39:06):
Like, we both have coffee, butthis one's clearly better and
more accurate and it's worsethat this one isn't.
And it's the same thing with AI, right, like how you use the
tools and which tools you'reusing, which bot?
I mean it's very complicated.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Well, this was just.
Somebody threw it into Google,and then it comes back with the
AI summary.
Yeah, you know how Google doesthat?
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The other, okay, gemini aisummary.
Yeah, yeah, it's wrong.
I mean, what do you say?
A lot of these things arematuring right and uh, there's
certain ai tools used forcertain things by certain
companies, for certain peopleand applications.
Yeah, and so if you're lookingfor a true hard stat, like you
use the wrong ai application.
I mean it is, it's complex,it's that like you used the
wrong AI application.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
I mean it's complex, it's intimidating the old folks.
No, no, it's.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
I mean honestly, I totally understand what this
thing says In all honesty, likeI mean just to let you know,
like it's intimidating foreveryone.
Sure, and like you, you know, Ithink we're definitely in a
paradigm shift here.
This is like the IndustrialRevolution.
It's like you either jumpaboard and you start learning
and the further that you don't—or you fight it.
Or you fight it and the bigdifference—it's actually not too
(40:17):
much difference.
It's like the same thing of theautomobile.
You can continue to make ityourself, one by one, or you can
start building an assembly line.
You might survive for a while,but it's going to get you.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
So I'm 67 years old, do I?
I mean, and I got businessesthat I have money invested in.
What do I need to do?
I think you really.
What do I?
How do I make myself smartenough on this stuff?
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah, there are, uh, there's.
I think you have to, just youhave to start consuming
information about it, Likebasically YouTube videos and
just learning and learning andlearning.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
For like uses of AI.
Do I need to go through one ofthese seminars?
I've seen these seminars.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
They could be helpful .
Yeah, I mean, I think it'sabout engulfing yourself in it,
but I think the real thing is islike there's a difference
between you using AI for yourpersonal needs versus a company,
understanding how it can beused.
Yes, for you personally, likeyou love financials and stuff
like that, you know, and all thethings you love to do.
Right, it's best to go down thepath of like oh, if I use this,
(41:26):
it actually expedites and I cando 50 things versus one thing
that I used to do in my time.
You would love that and that'sgoing to be really encouraging.
Then you'll start geeking andgo down the rabbit hole.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
So try to find like your own use of the technology.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yeah, and then right away, yep, and then you, you
know, I mean, ask somebody likeyou could ask me like which
specific tool that I think thatyou would have a lot of fun with
playing around with and payingfor, and you'll have a blast.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Well, it is a problem for a lot of us.
I mean, just basic IT is aproblem for a lot of us and the
other word cybersecurity.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
That's another thing that's going to be, I know.
Yes, so businesses are morethan ever facing that problem
and it's going to be.
I mean like I know, but yes, so, uh, businesses are more than
ever facing that problem and itwill continue to be, but you
have to be relentlessly adaptingto it.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Don't you think, though, that, like, most small
businesses just need like a goodoutside it service provider
relationship, or not?
Speaker 1 (42:26):
yeah, it depends on your business, it really depends
on your business.
Like I mean, we have one forpodcast videos.
They do a good job, right, youknow it's Tim Stanley, but he
needs to come on the showsometime with TDS.
But you know the hardware, thebasic IT stuff, you know the
(42:48):
security.
That's good and good enough forour business.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
But I mean, like, if you're dealing with, like what
AdFury does, no, they're notgoing to push you into a new use
of technology.
No, no, yeah, no, I get that.
I'm just saying for sort of theday-to-day stuff.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
it just makes sense, it does.
It's just like an accountant,like you don't want to hire a
full-time CFO or do you hire afraction.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Exactly.
I mean you get one of thesesmall IT providers.
They got somebody that's goodwith networking.
They got somebody that knowshardware, whatever.
They got somebody that knowscybersecurity.
That crap's all complicated too, man it is.
Yeah, I mean we could talkabout this all day, we could.
It's been a great one, man ithas been.
So this has been anotherepisode of Big Talk About Small
(43:36):
Businesses.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
About Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to our website,
wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscomand click on the Ask the Host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk About Small
(44:05):
Business and be sure to headover to our website to read
articles, browse episodes andask questions about upcoming
shows.
And if you're an investor or that's what you're
actually you have a dream tomake a lot of money and you're
investor thinking then you needto be an investor and know how
to play that game and not thinkthat you're an entrepreneur,
you're not an entrepreneur.
Yeah, you're an investor, right.
And if you're an entrepreneur,you're not an investor.
You're an entrepreneur, youknow.
(00:20):
I mean, like you need to know,yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
You make a really good point, you know.
I mean like you needed no kindof no, you make a really good
point.
I never really thought aboutthat.
Yeah baby, yeah baby.
We are back in the studio withanother episode of Big Talk on
Small Business.
I'm here with my co-host, hey,mark Pleasure to be here as your
(00:45):
co-host.
Hi, mark, pleasure to be here asyour co-host today, sir Eric
Howerton and we're in Eric'sstudio for his small business
one of them that he has, whichis called PodcastVideoscom,
which is doing, I think, verywell, they continue to grow.
I think very well, theycontinue to grow.
They continue to get moretraction with their complete
(01:07):
range of services that theyprovide to anybody who wants to
do a podcast, as well as otherstuff.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Anything, we call it conversational video,
conversational video.
Yeah, I mean, it applies to alot of different things, you
know.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I mean, this business is something else.
How many employees have you gotover here now?
I think we have nine.
Nine employees in this location, yep, and five or six different
recording venues in thelocation.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Mm-hmm In this one and we got things that are
popping outside of the studio.
Yep, we're setting up smallerstudios, we do custom studio bed
out.
So we're setting up smallerstudios, we do custom studio bed
out.
So one thing we've been talkingabout is kind of like the home
theater thing.
We can come set up a videopodcast at your house your
business.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
It'd probably be a great place just to do your
Skype or your Zoom calls.
Right, you've got a good studio.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
It goes across so many different spectrums.
That's why it's kind of likeconversational video is kind of
a big umbrella.
Right, I should have you dothat at my house.
You should, because it's notmuch and we can also like, if
you do any recordings, you cansend all your files and we do
all your post-processingdistribution.
Yeah, we can help withpre-planning all that type of
stuff.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Well, thank God, you guys Thank God, you guys are our
number one sponsor of the show.
You sure are.
I mean, there's no questionabout that.
So we're thankful topodcastvideoscom for what you do
for Big Talk about smallbusiness Absolutely man, happy
to do it.
So today we're going to talkabout the roses and thistles of
(02:40):
business ownership.
What do you think about?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
that I don't think there's many roses.
There's a lot more thistlesthan roses.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Well, there's some roses.
Sometimes roses don't smell sogood.
No, they don't Right.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Yeah, I mean you're looking for the roses at all
times.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
That's very true, so yeah, thank God Sam, who's again
part of podcast videos.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, provides these show notes for us and gives us
some bullet point topics withsome stats, which is really cool
.
It is.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
She's getting into this man.
I mean, she did some researchon this one.
I like this.
Let's just dive into it.
Let's do it the financialrealities of business ownership.
The average annual salary we'llsay earnings for small business
owners is approximately $69,119, with 86% earning under
$100,000.
(03:29):
And the source of that isEntrepreneurs HQ.
You know, 30% of small businessowners don't take anything out
of the company, reinvestinginstead in their business.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yes, so want to comment on that?
Yeah, I do.
I mean I think that number one.
I definitely agree with this.
To comment on that?
Yeah, I do.
I mean, I think that number one, I definitely agree with this.
Like so, there was a longperiod of time in my first
businesses where I didn't takeanything.
I didn't take earnings, salary,any of that.
It was always reinvesting thebusiness.
That's actually the case fortoday too, like for podcast
videos.
(03:59):
Sure is that I own.
I don't take anything out ofthe company.
It's all reinvested.
You know, I'm either investingin it or I'm investing in
another team member to come intothe business to continue to
help grow that business.
And I know, at White Spiderback in the early days, I mean,
there was a period of years ifyou added them all up together
(04:20):
it was probably three and a halfyears worth of where I did not
take any money.
I've just lived off creditcards or other types of debt.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
You know and just you were always going for the big
payoff at the end.
To me, that's the classicentrepreneurial mindset it's not
what I get out of it now, it'swhat the payoff is at the end
when I exit.
Now a lot of small businessowners don't think like that.
They think it's what I can getout of it right now.
Yeah, that hurts the business,I think.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
It does.
And I think that, if you know,and now there were periods where
I was making, you know, asalary that was less than
$100,000 a year, for sure, isprobably around the lines of
that $69,000, where I could ekea living by, and then I would
just stack debt on top of that.
You know, credit cards, I mean,I was really good at like a
(05:08):
Walmart credit card I had, youknow, I had gas cards.
I had.
Oh yeah, man, capital oneshields cards, what, bass pro,
didn't matter.
Every bit of credit you can get.
Anything I can get, man, yeah,I get it, and I would just kind
of, you know, ping pong back andforth from them and and just
try to make, make it happen, man, you know well I, you know you,
(05:30):
I can't say I.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
I was exactly like that in my businesses.
Now you also got a biggerpayoff at the end.
Um, by doing what you did withyour business, particularly
white spider not Not to say Idid fine, I mean I sold my
business twice.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Which is not bad.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
That's awesome man.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
But that wasn't always the case for me.
I was making a pretty goodchunk of money when I started my
business Well right before,because I was unemployed.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
And I certainly took a low salary but I made it back
the first year.
Yeah, and you know you don'tnecessarily have to take a vow
of poverty.
No, because I've had goodsalaries out of my companies and
plenty of benefits and things.
I think it kind of depends onthe business.
But you know, I was always toldI could take more out.
(06:26):
We were in the reinvestmentmode.
We didn't want to have a lot ofdebt, right Okay, and wanted to
keep the place growing so therewould be some value at the end
of the game.
Believe it to you and I think alot of it, though.
A lot of small businesses howmuch money they make.
You know in large part it'stheir own fault if they're not
(06:48):
making any money out of thebusiness.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
That's fair, I mean, don't you think no, a hundred
percent, and I think that youcan.
You know, the cool thing that Ithink you can do is is you can
actually you don't.
I would say, don't look at itas like this consistent salary
that you're getting every monthover month.
You know, no matter what youknow, you're basically You've
got to take care of the businessfirst, that's right, and you
(07:12):
also Not your personal needs,yeah, and you have to be dynamic
in the sense of where is itbetter that you're getting paid
or that you bring anotherresource on and pay that person?
Oh, no question about it.
You know, because sometimes,like you can like, the whole
intent is to grow that business.
You know, are you, you know, a$120,000 person's salary away
(07:33):
from really going over the nexthurdle?
That person has the credibility, qualifications, the network,
you know, the salesmanship totake that business to the next
level, because that has multiple, multiple compounding interest.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, it is no, that's exactly what it is.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, you're just investing in others and in the
market and in the materials andequipment, whatever.
It is Yep To get over thosehurdles.
Yep, and you being and I guessthe point of it is is that your
salary is part of thatcompounding interest equation.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
It is, yeah, the less you take out, the more you got
to fuel your growth and valueand value, yeah, creation.
There's no question about that.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
It does put it's hard for, I think, spouses to
understand that.
I mean, you know like a spousethat is not in a small business,
they're not an entrepreneurthemselves.
You know like a spouse that isnot in a small business, they're
not an entrepreneur themselves.
Right, because it's definitelynot the norm of the masses of
how people look at a career Yep,and pay, yeah, compensation.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
And they look at that spouse and think, oh, you're so
talented, you could have a goodjob.
Yeah, and you could.
You could.
Yeah, you could be working forXYZ and make it $250,000 a year.
Why are you doing this?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Yeah, it's because at XYZ Company I can't make
millions, exactly.
You know, there's the payoff.
I'm on multi-millions, right?
Millions of dollars, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Because then you can take that and keep you doing
more right, continue to invest,but no, that's I mean, that's
that's it, there's no questionabout it.
I mean, where I say I think alot of small business owners
could do better.
I think a lot of them reallydon't think about things like
how critical the growth is totheir profitability.
In other words, pursuing growthmakes making profits easier,
yeah, and if your goal, though,is the profitability, then you
don't necessarily get the growthright.
(09:27):
So that's one thing, that theywhere they really screw up, and
the other thing, I think, isjust pricing, yeah, just not
charging enough for what they do.
I see that all the time.
Like there was a guy that had asandwich shop.
It was attached to the sitcostation in dover, massachusetts,
where I lived, and what was insherburne?
Dover sherburne are two sistercommunities, that kind of work
(09:49):
together.
They got a common school systemin the boston metro west area,
very, very affluent, okay, likemy next door neighbor was pierre
dupont the fifth, okay, oh yeah.
So that's the kind ofneighborhoods you have, and
they've got one place in townthat has carryout food, and
that's this Italian restaurantattached to the Citgo station,
(10:12):
which is like the Citgo station.
I mean it's like everythinghappens there, okay, everything.
They had movie rental, they hada Dunkin' Donuts drive-thru
window, they had everythingthere.
But my point is the food wasgreat Unbelievable sandwiches
and pasta dishes and things.
It was all too cheap, yeah, andthere'd be a line out the
(10:34):
frigging door and you've gotthese customers that make a lot
of money.
I would say to the guy thatowns the place I'm like, dude,
raise all your prices.
Yeah, oh, I don't want to dothat.
I don't want to scare people.
I'm like we're not here becauseit's cheap, we're here because
it's convenient, yeah, okay.
And it's good, yeah, okay, okay.
So we pay for those things.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Right.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Raise your price.
I mean the guy you know.
I think at the time this goesback to, let's say, the late 90s
he was making $108,000 orwhatever.
I bet you could have made$208,000.
Probably $300,000 out of thatbusiness.
Yeah, with the volume that hewas doing just by changing his
pricing, yep you know 100% youwas doing just by changing his
(11:17):
pricing.
Yep, you know they're afraid toask 100, but anyway.
So the financial realities.
Yeah, you got to makesacrifices if you want that
thing to grow.
That's all there is to it.
That's the the golden goose.
You can eat the eggs or you canlet them sit there right and
keep making more and making moreeggs.
That's it time commitment andwork-life balance.
(11:38):
Many small business owners work50 plus hours per week to
sustain operations.
I mean, that's according to thenew york post.
Yeah, that's a minimum in my.
I mean like 50 hours.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
That's all, that's it .
Right?
That's not much.
I don't think that's much.
No, and I mean it's, and it'sconstant, week over week, year
over year.
Yeah, I mean, you know, and Idon't even like that work-life
balance statement.
I mean that's like we couldscratch that off, right.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
I mean we're not trying to get work-life balance
because we view them as the samething.
Yeah, yeah, I mean we're hereto work.
Yeah, work-life integration.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
That's it.
Man Do work you like.
Yeah, work as hard as you can.
Take a nap yeah, it's thatsimple, right it is.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
I mean, think about that.
50 hours, like you could startat six and be done at four or
five days a week and be off allweekend.
What?
Yeah, that's kind of boringright?
I mean it's.
It doesn't sound like much, no,no is it?
Speaker 1 (12:34):
no, it doesn't.
I mean, and you know when Ithink that that kind of goes
back up to that the reality isthe finance because, like, not
only are you maybe not takingpay, but you're also working
more, and so this equation not?
I see a lot of peoplestruggling with that, with you
know, like if they're in acurrently employed and they're,
they have an idea and they wantto go out and start a business,
(12:54):
like they really battlethemselves, they spreadsheet
this out, they're like, know, Imean, I'm making this much now
and I need to be making you knowthis.
Like no, you need to go to thebare minimum, yes, and then just
completely wipe off thecalculation of the number of
hours that you're spending.
Like it does, it's, it'sinsignificant, doesn't even
matter, you don't even need tolook at it.
What?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
you've talked before about the people who leave
corporate america and eitherstart a new business or buy a
business or buy a franchise.
I think you captured theessence of why a lot of them
struggle well, I mean, there's alot of reasons they struggle,
right, they're used to havingall the support of a big company
and suddenly they're doingeverything on their own.
(13:34):
But the other reason is they'vegot this expectation that I'm
going to work less than I worknow at Megacorp and I'm going to
make the money I make atMegacorp.
Ain't going to happen, no.
So if you suck all that moneyout of your new business to
maintain the lifestyle that youhad working at Megacorp, you
probably right away got aproblem.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yeah, and I think that.
So it kind of goes back to ourprevious conversations we had,
like, if you have this itch tostart a business, the itch means
you're trying to solve a marketproblem.
No one else is solving it.
You feel like you should gosolve it and there's a big
reward for it.
Right, and those rewards comefrom all kinds of things.
(14:19):
That's the reason that you jumpship, solve it and there's a
big reward for it.
Right, and those rewards comefrom all kinds of things.
That's the reason that you jumpship.
You don't need to try tocalculate Psychic rewards.
Yeah, man, like you don't, youshouldn't.
If you're trying to formulateyour experience as an
entrepreneur based upon whatyour experience is as an
employee, your experience as anentrepreneur based upon what
your experience is as anemployee, like you're not going
(14:39):
to find that perfect formula tojump over.
And if you think that you havethat's where I've seen a lot of
destruction Like I see a lot ofpeople that had that itch but
they've analyzed their idea outof not doing it because it
doesn't make sense financially.
Well, yeah, that never will.
Like you're not initially, yeah, not initially.
(15:01):
Right, right, right For sure.
Like you basically have, youknow, done a mathematical
equation that stops you fromdoing what your dream was.
So like that's a bad idea.
Don't even do that.
Yeah, don't you know?
You're right on with that.
And the second thing is is ifthey have found some way to
mathematically allow themselvesto go into business, that's
(15:22):
where the destruction starts.
So bringing that freaking mathequation from an employee in a
typical scenario to a businessis the most dangerous equation
you can sit down and try tofigure out.
Listen up people.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Okay, we're not here to tell you what you want to
hear about business ownership.
We're here to tell you therealities of business ownership.
Yeah, so you are equipped, yep,but you know as well as I do
most people.
They have too much personaloverhead and they load up on all
kinds of debt that theyshouldn't have.
I mean, it's one thing to oweon your house or whatever that's
(15:56):
an appreciating asset butpretty much everything else is
not worth owing on.
I mean, when you really comedown to it, it's really not.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I think that there's a gain to that.
Actually, I miss to be honestwith you, I miss a lot of the
debt overhead I had.
It was so motivating.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Well, the debt you talked about having and some of
the debt I had too, was relatedto not wanting to take money out
of the business.
Right, so I, in a sense, I waslike fueling the working capital
of the business, yeah, by like.
Here you got this taxobligation.
You can't take distributions tocover it, right, so I got to go
(16:34):
borrow on my credit cards topay it, yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, I get that.
Get those beautiful revolvingcredit cards are great they're
fantastic, right, there's nostrings, right.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
But if you're just doing it for personal
consumption, to maintain thelifestyle that you had when you
were a vice president atmegacorp or whatever, yeah,
that's a problem or, or you know, I mean I remember a lot of
times I would use the debt forthings that the family wanted or
needed, right, yeah, to kind ofwhat makes up for you not
making any money?
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I mean it's like to normally honestly, to sustain
the time so I can continue goingafter what I'm doing and
everybody's happy, for right nowit makes total sense.
But I do miss that pressure oflike oh man, like in this check
floating scenario, like of where, like I remember so, like every
week, multiple times a week, alot of times figuring out which
(17:25):
credit card I needed to pay onthis, really this date, and what
that minimum was, and then howmuch I needed to pull, like
here's the thing I'd pull fromthe business and pay myself,
based on what my minimumpayments were with my credit
cards to sustain another month,yeah, and then another month,
and there's just a cycle overand over and over again.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
But I was always just pulling basic, minimal stuff,
if you miss that you know I'vegot some businesses piece of
money we can load you up withdebt, all that you want.
Yeah, let's do it, baby, let'sgo that'll get you real
motivated.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
but I need to talk to the wife first about that,
that's how much of a sketch?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
That's gosh.
So yeah, it's going to taketime.
You're not going to make asmuch money, probably initially.
If you think long term, protectthe goose, that lays the golden
egg.
Get the big payoff.
That's entrepreneurship.
Yeah, 50 hours a week isnothing, nothing.
I don't even know what peoplesay, like how many hours a week
(18:21):
you work.
I always say I don't know, Ihave no idea.
You say the same thing, oh hell.
Yeah, it is so funny that thathow you and I have had so much
the same mentality and attitudetowards this stuff, right, and
we just totally different fromeverybody else but that's why
I'm doing this podcast with you,because you make me feel normal
(18:41):
it, but it's so true like wedon't know how many hours we
have no idea, because anytime Ialways say if I'm awake, I'm
probably working.
Yeah, I mean for all practicalpurposes I'm at least engaged
like.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
I'm checking emails, I'm checking text.
Yeah, exactly, you know I mean,or I'm planning, like my dream.
My favorite thing is when theteam has a vacation, like
tomorrow there's a holiday,juneteenth is happening, team's
off work Fantastic.
I will have some one-on-onetime with myself zoning in to
(19:13):
some projects.
Good for you.
Yeah, you know that I willaccomplish.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
But your projects will probably be like getting
your heavy equipment out.
Oh no, no, no, no, I'm talkingabout work projects.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Okay, okay, yeah, I'm going to figure out some things
.
That's required me to spendfour or five hours to sit there
and think when you've got thefocus, the time commitment yeah.
Yeah, but so that's an example.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Like I'm not counting those as hours of a week.
I get it, I know you knowexactly what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, it's just part of what's about.
Every sunday morning I get upwhen everybody else is sleeping
and I go hit a coffee shop and Iwork three or four hours.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, every sunday before they even get up for
years.
Yeah, you know, I got a new jobhere.
It's speaking of that um.
It was kind of cool, my um.
One of my daughters bought mefor father's day this thing.
Okay, I get this.
I'm like, geez, you got meanother freaking job, whereas
every week they ask me aquestion that I have to write up
(20:08):
the response to and then itputs it all in a book about you,
oh yeah like a legacy book,like, yeah, the stuff that
Duncan Stone does, is it aDuncan Stone thing?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Okay, but it's kind of cool, it's that they manage.
Basically, they manage you.
So every week you got to writeOkay, that's another job.
It's another job, I swear.
I mean, I'm sitting thereanswering these things and
spitting out a thousand words ata time.
Anyway, it is another job, butit's, it'll be cool because in
the end they'll actually it'slike first thing.
(20:40):
I was like you're, I'msurprised you want to know what
it was like for me as a kid.
Nobody ever asked me that mykids don't care about that.
You actually do.
No, wow, that's cool when yourdad don't care.
You know what was dad like?
But it is like another job.
Yeah, but it's interesting.
I thought it was a greatbusiness idea.
(21:02):
Yeah, to do this.
It is Okay, let's go back tothe real.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
So the common challenges faced by small
business owners.
Top challenges includeinflation at 58%, revenue
concerns at 35%, employeebenefit costs at 14 percent,
access to financing at 14percent, and then supply chain
issues at 13.
Provided by back lingo, thestats were um.
So what are we supposed to say?
(21:28):
Right, you know?
I think this is a businessowner like the one thing there's
.
Honestly, there's only onething in here that I'm
constantly concerned about, andthat's revenue.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, I'm with you Like 100% of the time.
The rest of this stuff we cantake care of if we got the
revenue right.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yeah, that.
And also like, what can youreally like?
Revenue's the thing in yourcontrol?
Yeah, we can't controlinflation.
No, I can't control employeebenefit costs.
Yeah, no, I mean, I guess, well, maybe there's a part of me
that is always mindful of accessto financing, like I don't
think I'm constantly, I'm notworried about that or I'm not.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I am worried about that.
With some of the businesses I'massociated with yeah.
I've got one right now that'sgot an order from their bank to
go find a new bank.
Yeah, okay, that's find a newbank.
Yeah Okay, that's not a goodfeeling, you know I guess it's
about challenges, right?
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Like, yeah, your access to financing.
You know that is a challengethat you face, like when you are
tight on money, and like howyou're going to cover those
bridges.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, so there are a lot of challenges.
I mean these are all challenges.
I mean I'm kind of surprisedthat these are the top
challenges.
I would think the topchallenges are like
employee-related yeah, wouldn'tyou.
Oh, no, 100%.
I mean like those are thethings that really keep you
awake at night, as they say.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah, and I can't believe that that inflation
thing is like the challenge,like I mean I can't either.
Now I guess that there's.
You know it depends on yourindustry, right?
I mean I can see you know, likebrands, you know product
manufacturers, they obviouslythat's a huge one, and that
could be the majority of peoplethat responded to this.
Or you know maybe that there'sso many products that are out
(23:11):
there that masses are thinkingabout that right, like if you're
in some kind of commoditybusiness or something which
we're not.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Either of us never have been.
Um, the the supply chain issues, that those are real.
I mean that's that's reallycreated some havoc in the
manufacturing business and I'mpart of.
I mean it started with thetariffs, and then it then
suppliers saying well, we justwon't supply anything to you
anymore because your tariffs areso high.
(23:39):
That's going to kill our market, so we won't even make that.
Ok, that's what I think peopledidn't even think about.
Yeah, it's not like you canjust automatically buy stuff in
the US, right, even if you hadthe, we're willing to pay the
difference in price.
Yeah, yeah, that's a tricklepayment.
That's creating some supplychain.
I mean, truthfully, though, anyresponsible manufacturer should
(24:03):
have multiple sources for whatthey buy.
It's it?
This is just like a classicbusiness school case that you
allow yourself to be dependenton one company that's not going
to perform.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
You can't run your business you cannot, you cannot,
and I think that that that isnot going to perform.
You can't run your businesslike that, and I think that
that's not just you know.
I mean, like I think it's forany procurement, it's any
service that you have.
You've got to be thinking youhave to have plan B and C, amen,
locked and loaded, and not onlyfor when the bad happens, but
also, I think, to keep yourcurrent one accountable.
(24:38):
Exactly.
It's like, bro, you thinkyou're the only freaking
accountant that exists.
Now, I know, are you serious?
It's so true?
Yeah, just to keep the Justremember, I got two people I can
holler at.
I've talked to them.
I'll let them know.
I talked to them.
Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
No, you're right on with that, all right.
Take the next one mark businesslongevity and survival rates.
50 of small businesses survivefive years.
Only 30 reach the 10-year mark.
Of course, it goes down whenyou, once you go up to 20, 30
years, whatever.
Yeah, I'm proud to say one ofmy businesses is going to turn
37 years old this year.
That that is.
That is.
That's a lot of time, man.
(25:18):
I'm I'm not the owner.
It's gone through multipletransitions at this point, yeah,
but you found it.
It's carrying on.
I did co-founded it with, withFred White, right?
Actually, I started it first.
Then I hired Fred Okay, for thefirst three years I was a
hundred percent, oh wow years.
(25:40):
I was 100, oh, wow, yeah.
Then I incorporated I mean,fred was there early, yeah,
within several months, maybethree or four months of starting
it.
He was pivotal dude.
Congratulations, man.
37 years, yeah, 37 years.
So why don't they last?
Why do businesses flame out,you?
You think?
Speaker 1 (25:53):
man, I think that well.
So I think on that firstbracket there, five years you
know the 50% that get knockedout in the first five years I
think a lot of that is just justpure stamina.
Yeah, you know, I mean, like toyour point earlier, like so
many folks don't understand howhard it is, how much time it
(26:15):
takes and how little money thatyou're going to have and how
much you have to invest in thatbusiness.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Don't you love these things where these experts
advise you to have like a year'sworth of your operating
expenses stuff decided.
I mean like who does, who does?
No one can I mean who no work,yeah yeah, that's it over,
you'll never start anythingexactly, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I mean, it's like we're gonna do, like that's a
that's that's.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
I love those things, though you must have six months
of operating expenses in cash.
I've had students recitenumbers like that to me.
I I don't know where they heardthem, but they read them
somewhere.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Well, I mean, you know it's coming from like
academia, like too much thoughtand consideration.
You're overanalyzed whenreality is the only answer is
you need to be a freakingfighting, like a freaking dog.
Yeah, werewolf man, like justrelentless Werewolf in London,
that's it.
It was a great movie.
Like just fight, Like Are youready to fight?
Yeah, and put everything on theline and you really need to.
(27:13):
I wonder how many.
You don't tell other peoplethat, but I guess to me it's
like when you see something thatyou want to do, do you worry
about all these what-ifscenarios or do you just see the
thing that you're wanting to do, yeah, and then when you jump
into, that like, Once you jumpin, then you got to start
thinking about all the what-ifs.
(27:33):
Yeah, yeah, but you've jumped innow.
You've jumped in like too lateto go back.
You're in the frying pan, dude.
Here's a funny thing, though,that I've been actually
struggling with since the saleof White Spider and starting up
businesses over again.
I know all the what ifs, or alot more of the what ifs.
It's been a much interestingride.
(27:56):
I'm like I know I'm going to dothis, but I'm like damn man.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
It's not the same thing.
It's not the same.
It's not, is it?
It's so true, God?
It's the same thing 100%.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Now I'm like damn it, it's almost, it's funny, it's
like there's, I'm out of controlof it.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Yeah, you realize that the odds are that all your
successor businesses won't be assuccessful as your first one.
And they're costing and I'mlike and you know more and you
put more money into them.
Yeah, god, and I'm working hardand long.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, and I'm working hard and long.
Yeah, you know, and I don't.
That's been my experience, andhere's the thing you don't have
to do this?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, I know, but you do because you are who you are.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah, it's like I'm out of control, like there's
another personality in me,that's you know.
But the thing is it's like allthese what ifs, like I'm a
little bit more, I guess,concerned and fearful.
You got more to lose.
That's why, yeah, and I knowthat it can be yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
This is what keeps us awake at night.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
This is actually a really really good conversation
that you understand I'm going.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I do.
I've got my personal guaranteeon a line of credit for one of
these businesses and I couldsurvive it if I lost that, but
God, it would be painful, really, really painful.
Did you have to do that?
No, I didn't have to do that.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I know why are we doing it.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I don't really know Like it makes no logical sense,
because that's what we do.
You know, I think you know backon this, this five-year
survival train now, um, and youknow, and what you're saying,
like you, you're, you're like awerewolf, I mean.
I remember when I started thecompany that's why group today I
was unemployed.
(29:45):
I got fired from a job that Iwas doing a great job at.
Oh okay, okay, that wasn't Iwas doing a great job.
Why did you?
I had turned it around.
It was a family enterprise andthat the guy's family members
didn't like me, got a littlejelly.
I put pressure on them to dothings.
I found all kinds of stuff,okay, like what's this?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
yeah I can see you dig it into some.
You went to some rabbit holesthat you weren't embodied into
that's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Right, but I was doing a great job, okay.
Now the thing is, I swore thatwould never happen to me again.
Yeah, so my option, my choice,was not start my own business or
get another job.
I'm like bullshit on anotherjob I was never going to, I'm
never going to take that.
I did that and I got screwed.
Okay, ain't't gonna happen yeahso that's the fight comes from
(30:33):
that.
Yeah, I think a lot of people,like you said, though they start
these businesses, they don'tride it out.
They don't have the stamina,because they're really not that
committed to be in that business.
Maybe they did it because theythought it was good financially
or was in the market, needed it,or whatever, but they aren't
(30:54):
personally like committed tolook what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
This is really good.
There's actually like threetiers in my brain, because
employee mindset yep.
Entrepreneurial mindset yep.
And then there's another one,an investor mindset, and I think
it's so important for ourlisteners to understand which
one are you and be real withthat, because you're going to
(31:20):
screw yourself royally if youdon't choose the right path.
If you're an employee wantingto be an entrepreneur, do you
know what that means and youdon't go into entrepreneurship
with an employee mindset.
If you're an employee wantingto be an entrepreneur, do you
know what that means and youdon't go into entrepreneurship
with an employee mindset?
No, if you're an employee, butyou're really thinking like an
investor.
You are not an entrepreneur,you're an investor because you
(31:43):
don't want to work that hard.
You want to watch your moneywork Exactly.
You want to be out of thebusiness.
You want to sit on a board.
You want to be out of thebusiness.
Yeah, I'm going to sit on aboard.
You want to make somecontrolling decisions, just so
you protect your money, but ithas nothing to do with the grind
and the freaking guts and thevision.
Yeah, like you don't.
You don't and you need to stay.
Stay the hell out of the way.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, as much as you are in, it's hard to imagine
that it is, even when you putthe money in.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Because your tendency is going to be I want
involvement so okay for peoplelike us, well, yeah, but I think
that there's a hybrid there,though, but I think, no, there's
like there's an entrepreneur,investor mindset.
But honestly, like what Ifigured out, yeah, is that, if
I'm an investor, yeah insomething I'm more so of an
(32:31):
entrepreneur, entrepreneur,business-minded person.
That's why I'm invested more inmy own business.
Yeah, because you feel like yougot control over it?
Yeah, because I can't.
Yeah, I have to control it.
Yeah, I understand what I'msaying like and I'm more
confident to put money, that Iknow what I'm putting money into
.
Amen, as an investor if I throwmoney over the tape, over the
line, like I honestly don't havethe time to be involved, but I
(32:52):
also recognize that I'm aninvestor.
In that point it's like thepublic stock market.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Okay, it's a great example, yeah, right, yeah, you
put money into that.
Somebody else always knows morethan you.
You're not involved in themanagement of Apple Corporation
or whatever.
Right, that's right.
Yeah, apple Corporation orwhatever right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
And if you're an investor or that's what you're
actually you have a dream tomake a lot of money and you're
investor thinking then you needto be an investor and know how
to play that game and not thinkthat you're an entrepreneur.
You're not an entrepreneur,You're an investor.
And if you're an entrepreneur,you're not an investor, You're
(33:30):
an entrepreneur.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
You know what I mean, like you need to know kind of,
yeah, you know you make a reallygood point.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I never really thought about that.
Yeah, I think I've shared thisquote, one of my favorite quotes
.
Investors are like horses.
They have eyes on both sides oftheir head, yeah, watching to
be what's they're going totackle them, so they watch their
money.
Right, that's what you do.
Like what, what are y'all ygoing to lose on my money?
Right, that's all they thinkabout, right?
And entrepreneurs are likewolves with eyes on the front of
their face, going out to hunt.
They're not worried aboutwhat's going to kill them,
(33:56):
they're just looking to kill.
You know what I'm saying, andso?
But there's a tension there.
Yeah, there is Between them,and I think, if you, it's just
like an employee starting abusiness wrong expectations.
I want to make a lot of money,I want to earn my salary, I got
to pay for my lifestyle.
You're already thinking wrong.
You're not an entrepreneurialthinker, then.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
This is what I don't like about so many franchise
businesses.
I'm not saying that they needto be viewed like that, yeah but
I think the people who areattracted to them in many cases
have this orientation of I'mgoing to get so much money out
of this thing, I'm not going tobe that involved with it.
Okay, it's going to be easybecause it's in a can.
(34:40):
They're doing everything for me, and yet you, you'll do a lot
better with the um franchisebusiness If you think like an
entrepreneur, oh yeah, and throwyourself into it.
Don't suck the money out of it,yeah it's just like any other
business, right those are theones that end up with like 27
mcdonald's or theirentrepreneurial thing, 30 slim
(35:03):
chickens or whatever.
Yeah, right, yeah, they'regetting it.
Yeah, they're getting it, yeah.
But then you got those otherpeople that they buy this, the
slim chickens or whatever, andthey suck.
They go.
Well, I made $250,000 a year atABC Corp, so I'll take $225,000
a year out of this slim.
No, you're an investor.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Like that's what private equity groups are for,
that's what funds are for.
Yeah, Like you need to be partof that.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Right, or four, like you need to be part of that,
right?
You got somebody out there'swatching, though.
Yeah, somebody is right,exactly yeah.
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Speaker 1 (35:49):
All right, so time for a couple more, my friend.
So I do like this next onefunding and financial management
.
64% of small businesses startwith less than $10,000.
33% with under $5,000.
From Entrepreneurial HQ.
Love that stat Me too, becauseit is data about what we say all
(36:13):
the time yeah, you don't need aton of money, you don't start a
billion freaking dollars.
Yeah, and go on a pitch deckraise yep, you know, unless
you're starting, you knowcertain things, like a
pharmaceutical company.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I always use that as an example.
Yeah, it takes five or tenyears to get through the FDA.
Five and $5 billion.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Yeah, that's a hard one to start.
That's a hard one to start.
We're not going to make that.
No, no, but like, if you'rehaving an itch to solve a
problem, it doesn't need to be apharmacy, like that's pretty
big thinking, I know.
You know, like I'm a chemistand I have a problem to solve,
you go down that round.
That's a whole differentballgame.
(36:57):
Yeah, it is.
You know, 64% of thesebusinesses that are out there
are starting less with $10,000.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
That should be comforting.
Yeah, I see my students do that.
Sometimes it's like I have tosay look, that's too big of a
problem.
It's like I'm going to solveworld hunger.
No, you're not going to.
Okay, that's just too big of aproblem to tackle.
Yeah, let's come up withsomething that's a little more
manageable, that maybe we couldconceivably do without a lot of
money.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
I think this next one is really relevant
Technological adaptation incybersecurity.
Over 60% of small businessowners find it challenging to
keep up with technologicalchanges, especially AI source on
pay.
Yeah, I mean, it is a very bigchallenge, challenging to keep
up with technological changes,especially AI source on pay.
Yeah, I mean like it is a verybig challenge, and I look, eric,
I'm, you know about AI.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, you know something about it.
Yeah, I'm.
You got a company that'sworking in AI space.
I'm 67 years old.
I don't know anything about it.
Yeah, yeah, okay.
All I know is I was at a boardmeeting last week where the
company founder and CEO searchesAI to find out something about
(38:02):
where a statistic comes from.
Yeah, and it quoted our companyinaccurately.
Yeah, our company inaccurately.
And yeah, where there's onereference from 2018 of somebody
who wrote something in one ofour publications that's wrong.
Yeah, and none of the hundredsof other references where we
define how to do this.
(38:23):
Yeah, we're sorted, we're cited, and so that's why I, you know,
I always think, god, I know,ai's great, it can do a, b and c
, but those are the kinds ofthings that old farts like me
you think, boy, there's got tobe.
It also can perpetuate a lot ofmisinformation, can it?
Oh, no, no, it could, and andbad stuff.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
There is a uh, there is an absolute level of
professionalism.
It's like anything else, likeyou know, sure, anybody can make
a cup of coffee, but did you doit right?
Did you roast?
How are the beans roasted?
How are they ground?
When did you grind them?
What temperature of water?
What temperature of water?
Right, all those things?
(39:06):
Like, we both have coffee, butthis one's clearly better and
more accurate and it's worsethat this one isn't.
And it's the same thing with AI, right, like how you use the
tools and which tools you'reusing, which bot?
I mean it's very complicated.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Well, this was just.
Somebody threw it into Google,and then it comes back with the
AI summary.
Yeah, you know how Google doesthat?
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The other, okay, gemini aisummary.
Yeah, yeah, it's wrong.
I mean, what do you say?
A lot of these things arematuring right and uh, there's
certain ai tools used forcertain things by certain
companies, for certain peopleand applications.
Yeah, and so if you're lookingfor a true hard stat, like you
use the wrong ai application.
I mean it is, it's complex,it's that like you used the
wrong AI application.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
I mean it's complex, it's intimidating the old folks.
No, no, it's.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
I mean honestly, I totally understand what this
thing says In all honesty, likeI mean just to let you know,
like it's intimidating foreveryone.
Sure, and like you, you know, Ithink we're definitely in a
paradigm shift here.
This is like the IndustrialRevolution.
It's like you either jumpaboard and you start learning
and the further that you don't—or you fight it.
Or you fight it and the bigdifference—it's actually not too
(40:17):
much difference.
It's like the same thing of theautomobile.
You can continue to make ityourself, one by one, or you can
start building an assembly line.
You might survive for a while,but it's going to get you.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
So I'm 67 years old, do I?
I mean, and I got businessesthat I have money invested in.
What do I need to do?
I think you really.
What do I?
How do I make myself smartenough on this stuff?
Speaker 1 (40:45):
Yeah, there are, uh, there's.
I think you have to, just youhave to start consuming
information about it, Likebasically YouTube videos and
just learning and learning andlearning.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
For like uses of AI.
Do I need to go through one ofthese seminars?
I've seen these seminars.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
They could be helpful .
Yeah, I mean, I think it'sabout engulfing yourself in it,
but I think the real thing is islike there's a difference
between you using AI for yourpersonal needs versus a company,
understanding how it can beused.
Yes, for you personally, likeyou love financials and stuff
like that, you know, and all thethings you love to do.
Right, it's best to go down thepath of like oh, if I use this,
(41:26):
it actually expedites and I cando 50 things versus one thing
that I used to do in my time.
You would love that and that'sgoing to be really encouraging.
Then you'll start geeking andgo down the rabbit hole.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
So try to find like your own use of the technology.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yeah, and then right away, yep, and then you, you
know, I mean, ask somebody likeyou could ask me like which
specific tool that I think thatyou would have a lot of fun with
playing around with and payingfor, and you'll have a blast.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Well, it is a problem for a lot of us.
I mean, just basic IT is aproblem for a lot of us and the
other word cybersecurity.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
That's another thing that's going to be, I know.
Yes, so businesses are morethan ever facing that problem
and it's going to be.
I mean like I know, but yes, so, uh, businesses are more than
ever facing that problem and itwill continue to be, but you
have to be relentlessly adaptingto it.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Don't you think, though, that, like, most small
businesses just need like a goodoutside it service provider
relationship, or not?
Speaker 1 (42:26):
yeah, it depends on your business, it really depends
on your business.
Like I mean, we have one forpodcast videos.
They do a good job, right, youknow it's Tim Stanley, but he
needs to come on the showsometime with TDS.
But you know the hardware, thebasic IT stuff, you know the
(42:48):
security.
That's good and good enough forour business.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
But I mean, like, if you're dealing with, like what
AdFury does, no, they're notgoing to push you into a new use
of technology.
No, no, yeah, no, I get that.
I'm just saying for sort of theday-to-day stuff.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
it just makes sense, it does.
It's just like an accountant,like you don't want to hire a
full-time CFO or do you hire afraction.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Exactly.
I mean you get one of thesesmall IT providers.
They got somebody that's goodwith networking.
They got somebody that knowshardware, whatever.
They got somebody that knowscybersecurity.
That crap's all complicated too, man it is.
Yeah, I mean we could talkabout this all day, we could.
It's been a great one, man ithas been.
So this has been anotherepisode of Big Talk About Small
(43:36):
Businesses.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
About Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to our website,
wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscomand click on the Ask the Host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk About Small
(44:05):
Business and be sure to headover to our website to read
articles, browse episodes andask questions about upcoming
shows.
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