July 23, 2025 • 34 mins
What makes a professional service provider truly valuable to your small business? It's not cost savings—it's quality, responsiveness, and genuine care. In this candid conversation, we challenge the conventional wisdom that outsourcing is primarily about cutting expenses.
Great professional relationships, whether with attorneys, accountants, HR consultants, or IT specialists, are built on foundations of mutual respect and genuine interest in your business success. We share stories of exemplary service: the banker who answers his phone from vacation in Cabo, the electrician owner who responds to late-night texts, and the heating and plumbing business who makes courtesy calls to check their work. These providers understand that exceptional service transcends conventional business hours and rigid boundaries.
Local relationships typically outperform remote ones. When your professional service providers are embedded in your community, they bring contextual understanding and personal investment that remote alternatives simply can't match. We explore why customer support should never be outsourced. Your clients deserve direct connection with people who truly understand your business values.
The most troubling red flags? Service providers who prioritize "work-life balance" over client needs, set up automated email responses, or create gatekeepers to shield themselves from direct communication. These signals reveal a fundamental misalignment with what small businesses require from their professional partners.
Rather than chasing the lowest rates, seek providers who demonstrate genuine care for your business outcomes. Build relationships with professionals who view themselves as partners in your journey rather than mere vendors selling time. The right service providers don't just solve immediate problems; they create a foundation for sustainable growth and success. What professional relationships have transformed your business?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's just this.
I mean, I love professionalservice businesses.
They probably should never havedone anything else.
Okay, and because you and Iboth understand it's all about
service, okay, yeah, give it,yeah, it, just be involved
personally, know what the hellyou're doing and serve your
clients Well.
Yeah, and you will do well.
(00:20):
Hey, everybody, I'm back in thestudio here with my buddy and
partner, mr Eric Howerton.
Hi, marcus Zweig.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
How are you Good?
By the way, it's Zweig not.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Zweig.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I heard somebody say the other day yeah, you do that
show with Mark Zweig.
I'm like no.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Zweig, bro.
Yeah, it's long.
I like Budweiser.
That's what I always tell mystudents and they can remember
it.
Would you call it Budweiser?
Yeah, would you call itBudweiser?
The other one is they get AZweig.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Zweig.
I'm like no, or they go Zweig,Zweig, Zweig yeah it's like why
is it so hard?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
so march lag, thank you.
Another episode of big talkabout small business.
Hey, today we're going to betalking about dealing with
professional service providers.
Love it.
I got some opinions.
I do too.
I've got a lot of experiencewith them.
I think it's important.
I mean, every small businessneeds qualified professional
service advisors for accounting,tax, legal, it, many times
(01:34):
marketing, right, yep, hr,recruiting yes, there's a
million different avenues thatone can pursue finding
professional, qualityprofessional service providers.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, and those are things that you don't really
want to try to learn yourselvesor cut costs on.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Because they will always bite you.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Exactly.
Or you know, I notice herewe've got one of the things.
So I notice here we've got oneof the things.
One of the points is thatoutsourcing, a lot of it, is
about cost savings.
I don't necessarily think of itas cost savings, I think of it
as quality.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, I agree, you know Same thing A hundred
percent, like our HR person thatwe use, kathleen Hoffman.
Yeah, it's a hundred percentabout.
I know she has experience, shedoes the right thing, she knows
the rules, she knows how tohandle situations, the paperwork
filing.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
You're never going to know this as well as Kathleen,
never, never, and I don't wantto know, no, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
And she's just awesome.
She's the best that I've everand I've been using her for
golly man 15 years or something,yep, and she's just incredible
and she's fair.
Yep, you know, but 100% isabout the quality, it doesn't, I
don't.
My first question isn't likehow much are you going to charge
?
No, exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I mean, well, when you have a really good
relationship with yourprofessional service advisor,
you trust them, or provider, youtrust them, You're.
I don't ask for costs, I justhave people do it.
Yeah, I mean I might need acost in like an audit.
Yeah, Right, that's a.
That's another matter wherethere's a really defined scope.
But yeah, I mean it's, it's sotrue.
I mean I had a question aboutum raising equity capital and I
(03:23):
deal with one guy here locallynow in the AE business.
I deal with somebody whospecialize in that.
But when it comes to thesesmall entrepreneurial ventures,
I deal with Luke Renier here,who's taught at the law school.
He's got a company law firmcalled startup boutique.
He's super helpful.
I can go.
What about um?
Uh, direct public offerings.
(03:43):
What is your?
What do you know about that?
I mean you know, two hourslater I get a complete rundown
on everything what the costs are, what the forms are, what the
risks are.
How am I gonna possibly learnthat?
Right, you know what I mean.
100 it's.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
It's invaluable, the advice you get from the right
professional service providersyou know one thing on here like
it talks about, you know it goesthrough about marketing human
resource and then bringscustomer support.
That's something that I don'tknow, that I really would agree
with that.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I want to outsource yeah, oh, this is when you say
it says here this is the sheetthat we get, yeah, from somebody
on eric's staff at podcastvideoscom that they prepare for
us um, before every show and um,it's uh that the uh headline
says outsourcing is prevalentamong small businesses and eric
(04:36):
is citing um, some of thesethings digital marketing 34 of
firms outsource that development.
I don't know what developmentmeans.
28%.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Probably like software development.
Okay yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Human resources 24% and customer support 24%.
He said he doesn't know if heagrees with that Boy.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I'm with you, that's coming from exploding topics as
a source, but I mean, like Ijust can't.
I'm 100% with you, I wouldnever outsource that.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Why would you want to disconnect yourself from your
customers and their problems?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, that's bad news Now, objectively, have we ever
called somebody and obviouslyreceived an outsourced customer
support hotline?
Yeah, absolutely, but it's amassive frustrating experience.
Oh, dude, those are forcommoditized companies like
internet.
You know water.
(05:26):
Whatever it might be right,whatever that is that you that
you need utility type stuff,airlines airlines.
I hate dealing with theoutsourced but I mean, there was
no way I would do that for asmall business, me neither.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I agree with you a hundred percent.
You need to get the feedbackdirectly.
You need to be respondingquickly and talk about
representing the brand.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
the right way Exactly .
Speaker 1 (05:49):
You don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Number one.
This is either an existing paidclient or somebody that's just
started, or hell if they've beenmore impactful.
They've been with me for a yearand they call somebody and they
talk to somebody that has noconnection to my business.
No way, it's going to happen,no way.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
And people do that for prospecting too.
Yeah, I don't like that either.
Okay, I don't like that either.
I'll never forget when I firstcame back to Swag White, which
is today's Swag Group, and itwas owned by the lender, they
had outsourced and you werethere, you might remember this
they had outsourced a lot ofoutbound calling to the
(06:25):
Philippines.
Do you remember that?
I do.
Yeah, I got a recording of avoice message sent to me by one
of my clients and friends, whoseboard I was on, of his company
before we sold it for many years, and he was like holy cow, this
is who you guys have out there.
Guy couldn't even pronounce thename of the company.
(06:47):
That's not good man.
You know it looked terrible.
We pulled the plug on that.
So yeah, not everything issmart to outsource.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
You know, going down this tube.
We're talking about challengeswith outsourcing include
managing remote and hybrid teams.
So what the stat?
58% of knowledge workers todaywork in hybrid arrangements.
78% desire flexibilityregarding where they work, and I
guess that's referring to the,to the actual outsource team.
(07:17):
But I'm here to say that as asmall business, I don't even.
I do have a couple of suppliersthat are outside the area, but
mostly, especially with the mainones the legal, the HR, the IT,
marketing Dude no way I wouldeven hire.
I don't use firms outside of mylocal area.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I think that's really smart.
I mean, yesterday I had asignificant IT issue and I
called this Y group, supportpeople, which is Megabyte right
here in Rogers.
Yeah, okay, and I know the guythat owns it, wes Yep, and Wes
wasn't there.
I didn't ask for him, I got oneof his guys.
(07:58):
But the fact that they know usand have known us for a long
time, yeah, there's so much moremotivated, I think, to do a
good job, yeah, and to help usout.
I mean, it's a genuine desireto help people.
They know what's that worth.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
What's worth millions , mark, it's actually.
That gives me a comfort tothink that my team that's
employed, and all my providerswant to help each other be
successful.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Exactly, it's a mutually beneficial thing based
on relationships, the people whoactually care about each other.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Like, if you don't, if I don't, provide the service
that you're paying for, and it'sgoing to hurt your business,
it's going to hurt your team,it's going to hurt the community
, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And the thing is is like You're so right about that
local, though.
I mean I never really thoughtabout that.
I mean, some things are sonarrow and specialized I'm not
going to be able to get local,but we're in a big enough area
where most stuff is local.
I mean, just like the attorneyI mentioned, luke, I'm having
lunch with him on Monday.
Yeah, lunch with him on Monday.
Yeah, nothing special to talkabout, by the way, that's good.
(09:05):
Okay, it's just, we just talk.
You have a relationship.
Yeah, I care about him.
I want to see him be successful.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
He cares about me, he tries to help me out.
Yeah, yeah, no, I'm with you,man.
I tell you and here's, here's,a service provider that I would
not do business with is somebodythat wants to have flexibility
in their life, in a, and be ableto work remote because it's
good for them.
Oh yeah, I'm not going tosubscribe to that.
I'm not going to pay you.
If you say that to me, I'mactually not going to use you
because I don't want a serviceprovider who I'm depending on
(09:37):
and when I need your help, yeahthey're like I'm not working,
now I've got my work-lifebalance you're out again.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
I mean I hate to keep just plugging Luke on this,
okay, but I can text him at nineo'clock at night and I'll hear
back from the guy.
He's not like, well, I'm shutdown now I'm on personal time.
He's got kids, he's got.
You know what I mean it's like.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
It's like this business, man, it's always
business.
It's always time for it.
Bro, like dude, my client textsme at nine o'clock at night.
I'm going to respond.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
No, you're going to say send him an auto-reply.
I'll be back in the office at 9am.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
You taught me one of the best lessons in the world
and I see it happen all the time, like I see it in my own
company.
Speaking of, we had an episodetalking about procrastinating
and talking about things thatbother us.
Yeah, I need to nail this oneahead too, like I have like, but
when somebody says has an autoreply I'm out of office, on
(10:35):
vacation, won't return for nextweek.
You taught me a long 15 yearsago, if never, ever, ever, do
that I hate it.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
People still argue with me about it like no man, I
like the thing is, I always likethe people arguing with me
about it.
And then I look like the thingis, I always like the people
arguing with me about it.
And then I look at him like howsuccessful have you been?
How many businesses did youpersonally own?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
okay, right right, so you know, and you shouldn't
have auto response like I don't.
I have not had one in 15 years.
No, because of what you taughtme, mark now, that's nice of you
to say yeah, but it is.
But I mean like, but theresponsibility is okay, I might
not get to it, but I will get toit, probably within 24 hours of
the wait.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Oh yeah, it won't take you that long, especially
if it's something that needsattention.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, right, like I constantly watch my emails and
my texts, of course you do.
Yeah, now, some I do postpone.
Yeah, now, some I do postponeresponse.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, there's some things that are just not urgent.
They're just not urgent orimportant, right, right.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
But I would shame myself if I had an autoresponder
that says I'm out for a week.
A client or somebody, a partner, sends an email and it pops
back over to them immediatelyI'm out for a week.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I don't want them thinking in their mind for a
minute second that I willrespond to them, or, but here's
what they'll say I'm out for aweek, but you can call my
assistant, who doesn't know shit.
Oh, he's gonna help you.
No, they're not gonna help me.
I don't want to talk to yourassistant, right?
They're so far removed from youand what you know.
I have no desire to talk withthem.
Yeah, that's not who I'mcalling, it's not helpful for me
yeah, why did you even put thatin there?
people think that that excusesit, though, if they throw
(12:10):
somebody in there as theirassistant.
I never had an assistant, andneither did you, though let's be
honest, yeah, okay no, I know,I know I've had people trying to
get them to me.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
They've asked to be, they've asked to help.
I don't even.
I had somebody just not evensix weeks ago, says I can really
help.
You, take this stuff off yourplate, I can help.
I'm like, and immediately.
That request is overwhelming tome.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Oh, me too.
It's like oh, so you're goingto disconnect me from everything
.
I need to be connected.
I have somebody check my emailsfor me and reply or make my
(12:55):
calls for me outbound calls.
Would you like Mr Swag, holdfor Mr Swag, get to me on the
phone?
Have you ever had anybody dothat to you?
Yes, I have.
That is such a power play,isn't it?
I'm sure I said this, Iprobably told you this before,
but I had a guy do that to meonce and I hung up on him twice
(13:17):
and the third time he called me.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
He's like this must be.
Please hold for MrWhatever-His-Name-Was.
I'm out?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, I'm out.
It's the same thing like onemails yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Hey, I'm so, and so my boss sent me this message to
reach out to you.
I'm like I'm out.
Yeah, let me talk to your boss,then why can't he call me?
Yeah, it's like, no, I'm out.
Well, out back on professionalservice advisors then, yeah,
okay, where do you find goodones?
Generally, my experience isthat it comes from two places a
I try, I try people and see ifthey perform.
If they don't, I never use themagain.
(13:55):
Or B referrals from otherpeople I trust and know 100%.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Mostly it's referrals , yeah which, yeah, 100%, isn't
it?
Yeah, yeah, I ask around, Imean I have a.
I mean, when I was building myhouse I was asking about parts.
Sure, like I mean, why would Ispend all this time?
And I trust you, right, I knowthat you're not going to put up
with any crap.
I've done it yeah, but youalready have put up with the
(14:21):
crap and gone through thoseweeds and so I'm just going to
call and ask, like, who do yourecommend?
Yep, 100%, or my HR?
You know, kathleen, kathleen,I'll call her and ask her.
Sure, she's going to knowpeople, she's going to see how
certain companies handle things.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Exactly.
I mean I just last night no,well, night before last we were
at Eastside Grill and ran intoGary Head there.
You know Gary, he's the founderof Signature.
He was on our show once.
Great guy.
I love Gary, done a lot ofbusiness with him.
I sent so many clients his way.
Yeah, okay, and he introduced meto this guy.
(14:58):
He was a developer and had adesign build um, contracting and
development company, commercialand residential, moved here
from little rock recently andsaid that he was looking for a
new bank.
Um, when he introduced me tohim and I let me tell you about
this guy, okay, first off,dealing with Signature Bank,
you're going to have a lowfriction experience.
(15:21):
They know how to make it easyand I really like that.
But I said the second thing isI've been doing business with
Gary for 20 years and you knowwhy I first got Gary.
I asked around.
I had two people tell me.
My accountant and a real estateagent who's also an attorney
said call Gary Head, I had anissue.
I don't know the guy.
(15:42):
Okay, give me his cell number.
I call him.
He answers the phone.
He's in Cabo San Lucas atTyson's Place Vacation.
He answers the phone.
He talks to me for like 20 or30 minutes.
Okay, who am I gonna dobusiness with?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
the person that answers and talks to you at it,
or I mean because they want todo business yeah, now, before I
found him, I was dealing withanother bank.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
That's a big bank and they sent me into their system,
which is horrible inquireonline.
You can't even get anybody totalk to.
You can't find your phonenumber.
You got to submit an onlinerequest.
Yeah, you get called bysomebody you don't know outside
of the area.
Who am I going to deal with?
You know?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Gary's.
Gary's been a master at thatrelational thing.
You talk about somebody that,really, and he was on our show
and he talked about it a lot andhe, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
He had Merle Haggard as a client.
For God's sakes, there you go.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
How can you lose that ?
But the fact that you have thispassion, like if you, I mean,
and this?
You don't have to be anentrepreneur for this, although
he is, but if anybody cares, allyou've got to do is care about
what you're doing for otherpeople and recognize how
important it is he never says hedoesn't have enough time to
(17:08):
talk to somebody.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
How do you do?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
that, with all the locations and the billions of
dollars, they've got, because heknows, at the essence of it,
it's him caring Because helegitimately cares about being a
banker.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, and so About helping people, I know, after we
saw him on Monday night, mywife we go home and she's
texting Gary because she's got aclient who's got a problem that
needs Gary's help.
Yeah, okay, and the guy's, likeyou know, he's responding at
frigging nine o'clock at nightand he's going to deal with the
(17:42):
guy and I know he'll help him.
He's got a great business.
He's got a horrible bank that'snot responding to his needs
after 20, 30 years, or whateverit is, of building this business
.
He's dealing with a mega bankwhose name I won't mention,
who's not responsive and doesn'tcare about him.
And yet Gary will take the time.
(18:02):
Okay, and my wife's like theguy is unbelievable Always take
the time.
He's always going to take thetime to sell a new client.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Okay, this is a good point because I think it's so
subjective and I think it'simportant for people to hear.
But when we think we've gottentoo big for our own britches,
like there's a threshold, I'vebeen there, I've acted like that
.
Oh, I have too, I've behavedthat way, right, like I don't
need to deal with the $1,000 amonth clients month clients I
(18:33):
only deal with twenty thousanddollar month clients.
Yeah, that's the beginning ofyour time.
Yes, it is, it was.
It's so demoralizing and youlose yourself and yeah, and shit
starts breaking from underneaththe foundation.
Right, I know, it's so true,but what that's what I think I
appreciate about what gary isdoing, is that he, he, he has
found the reality of don't ever,you know like, because what
(18:54):
your wife was texting him abouta client that needs help.
I'm sure this probably isn't,like you know, like some mega.
It's not.
It's a small business, but it'sa solid one.
But, gary, he's not too big forhis britches.
No, fix that Exactly.
It keeps your concrete in man,dude it's funny.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
In fact, these guys do foundations.
It's funny.
You said that Okay, I mean wow,I can't believe how profound
that is.
But yeah, exactly.
But see, that's what I want outof all my.
I consider a bank, aprofessional service advisor, by
the way, 100% 100%.
They're not just a source ofmoney no, okay, but that's what
I want.
By the way, they're aconsultant 100%.
(19:34):
They're not just a source ofmoney no, okay, but that's what
I want out of all myprofessional service providers.
I want that mentality.
That mentality, yes, and no jobis too small, no questions too
annoying.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
When I hear of a professional service provider
that's starting that becausethey're tired of working so hard
over here and they want abalance of life and they're, you
know, they want to stay at homeso they can be with I don't
even hear about that.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I don't know if you're dealing with somebody.
We even say that I hear aboutthat all the time.
Well, you deal with thesesoftware guys and I'm like, well
, okay, maybe they think theycan get away the computer jobs.
Yeah, the lawyers and theaccountants and stuff, they
understand that ain't going tofly, the good ones.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Right, that's what I'm talking about.
I've had people that are inthose services that are talking
like that's, they leave a bigattorney firm because they want
to have a better, balanced life.
I'm like dude, you're out, likeyou're the opposite of what I
want, exactly Worse than the bigfirm.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Yeah, you know, because like they at least have
other people, maybe they canbring in if you're not available
, or whatever Right, rightExactly, they're not buying what
I want, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
You know just somebody?
Yeah, like this is bull.
You know somebody else and firehow much I'm doing?
Yeah, there's been someuncomfortable things.
Oh, yeah, you got to fire that.
Not the whole firm, but theperson.
Yeah, like this person, I didit.
I've gone around people beforeI did it, like about a year ago
at a legal firm.
Yeah, like this person is notproviding me sure what I need.
(21:01):
And so they, they responded,yeah, congratulations.
But it comes down, that personthat cares.
Like now if a service providercomes to me and says, hey, man,
I I don't.
I want to provide betterservice, I want to grow this, I
want to help the community, Iwant to provide better service,
I want to grow this, I want tohelp the community, I want to
help my clients.
I'm passionate about that, Icare.
I'm like now you're talking,yeah, like I might switch,
(21:24):
because if you care more than Ihave that cares, then I'd rather
be with you.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah, let's be with you.
Who do you want to be friendswith?
Somebody who really cares orsomebody that doesn't?
I mean, think about that.
It is that simple, isn't it?
It is 100% that simple.
I mean, I know, if they reallycare, we're likely to care about
them and I'm not going toinvest my time in anybody who
doesn't.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Because, as an entrepreneur, the whole reason
you're getting it like you wantemployees that care Right, you
want partners that care right,you want partners that care.
You want clients that care.
All we want to do, we have adream and a passion to do to
build something nice, goodquality that that helps out of
nothing.
Out of nothing, yeah, that'sexcellent.
That's excellent and we, andthe only way you can build that
(22:10):
excellence is if everybodythat's part of it cares yep,
you're only as good as theweakest link, dude.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
It's so true, it really is.
It's like a chain man the weaklink breaks the whole chain.
The rest of them can all bestrong and you should not
discredit.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I think that's a really good analogy, because you
obviously see that with youremployees, your full-time staff,
sure, that's an obvious, it'sthe chain right, but part of
that chain is also yourprofessional service contractors
that you're dealing with.
It really is, yeah, and if youhave a weak link, in hr or weak
link in legal whatever orbanking I'm telling you, or
(22:48):
accounting yeah, or it supportyeah, so I'd use tds here
locally.
Uh, tim stanley, they'refantastic, man.
I mean, they drop of a hat,they set you up, they come, they
service it.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
It's fantastic, it's what it takes yeah, it's what it
takes to be successful 100 careon top of I bet tim stanley
still involved with the businessoh, he totally is.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah, totally, yeah, he totally is.
Yeah, you know, speaking of aservice provider, like you know,
this is personal, but we hadpast right, yeah, and I know
that I have some friends thatown a heating and plumbing
business.
You'd probably be pissed at mesaying this, but the truth is
they came out, they fixedsomething and they came out on a
(23:32):
courtesy call to go anddouble-check their work.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
When is the last time a contractor did that?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I know, man, but they are showing that they care
about their work, about yourproperty, about what you pay
them to do.
I mean, dude, I'm sorry, butthat's—.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
That means a lot it does.
Just yesterday I had a problemwith electrical in my garage.
Means a lot.
Listen, just yesterday I had aproblem with electrical in my
garage.
I blew out some outlets and Icould not find the gfi or
circuit breaker to bring theseoutlets back.
I sent a text to my electricianat like nine o'clock at night.
Yeah, he responds.
Guy who owns the company.
Yeah, okay, he responds.
(24:10):
He goes, he calls me the nextor text me the next.
I'm going to send so-and-so out.
He'll be there in about twohours.
Sends these two guys out.
I know the guys Fixed theproblem, then sent us a text and
said there'll be no charge forthat today.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Who is this?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
I mean, it's Shane Hall, shane Hall Electric.
It's such a beautiful thing.
Who does that for you, you know?
I mean it's like you think I'mgonna refer him to other people,
or not?
yeah, I know we're gonna referthem to our millions of
listeners that we have on theshow yeah, do you think I'm
(24:47):
gonna be out there like, um, Ineed to shop shane, because no,
the last they came, they chargedme 180 bucks to do something
and it only took them 30 minutes.
That seems like a lot.
No, I'm not going to.
No man, I trust him.
They fixed the problem.
Responsive, responsive.
Responsive to set up the call.
Responsive to actually show up.
(25:08):
Showed they cared.
It's just this.
I mean, I love professionalservice businesses.
They probably should never havedone anything else.
Okay, and because you and Iboth understand it's all about
service, okay, yeah, give it.
Yeah, it just be involvedpersonally, know what the hell
you're doing and serve yourclients.
(25:29):
Well, yeah, and you will dowell, okay, that's who we want
working for us.
It's.
We're not doing this to savemoney.
I can't believe it.
83 of organizations havereduced costs through
outsourcing.
59 use outsourcing servicesspecifically to cut costs.
I think those are probably bigcompanies.
(25:51):
Yeah, they have, don't.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
They have to be small companies.
I mean, you know you wouldn'tdo that.
No, because it's not about thecost savings.
Now, there are certainscenarios if I have a full-time,
you know, and there's an agencyor somebody that can do more
services with better qualitythan a full-timer, yeah, you
don't need the full-timer either, Right?
(26:15):
Right, yeah, but I'd probablywouldn't make the move because
they're cutting costs.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
No, you do it because of quality, exactly.
Yeah, they know better I canget.
So it's kind of like fractionalCFOs is a good example.
You know that's a big thing.
There's a lot of companies outthere that provide that service
now and you know people likewell, why do I want a fractional
?
If I'm going to pay 150 for afractional cfo, I can go hire a
real one for 150, not the oneyou're getting from the
(26:42):
fractional cfo company.
True, that person might be athree or four hundred thousand
dollar a year cfo.
You're getting them for 150.
You're getting the best of them.
Okay, so you get a better.
I don't need them therefull-time right, there's not
full-time work to be had,exactly, but I want quality,
yeah, that's I don't want tohave to, you know, to go through
(27:05):
some hell a year or two fromnow.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, because of these practices right.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Ready to level up your show?
At podcastvideoscom, we offerindustry-leading recording and
expert marketing to help yourshow reach more listeners, From
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Speaker 1 (27:26):
So that's why I mean I think, a lot of times people.
To me, the reason to gofractional or outsource is
quality.
It's expertise that I cannotget on my own Okay.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
And I would say that there is like, on the fraction,
like you might, you would savemoney from having to spend 400
grand to the 150.
But, like I said, like you canmean there is some savings there
, but it's because you don'thave full-time need for that.
Yeah, exactly, let's say I'm a$5 million company.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I can't afford savings there, but it's it's
because you don't have full-timeneed for that.
Yeah, exactly, let's say I'm afive million dollar company.
I can't afford a four hundredthousand dollar cfo.
I'm not paying myself 400 grandanywhere.
I'm not right.
I mean, yeah, um.
So yeah, it's interesting, umchallenges.
Uh.
58 of knowledge workers todaywork in hybrid arrangements.
(28:15):
78% desire flexibilityregarding where they work,
according to NetSuite.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I don't even want to talk about that stat.
It infuriates me.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, importance of clear communication and
expectations.
Risks of long-term contractswith auto renewal clauses.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Here's the deal, man If you work for me full-time,
you're coming to the office.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I know Well, I'm with you on that.
I'm also a believer that Ithink this four-day work week
stuff's crap.
I'm not going to get the sameproductivity out of people in
four tens that I'll get out offive, eights or whatever.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
I can't believe the blinding bull crap that we have,
that humans have changed all ofa sudden from the dawn of time
that since 2020, we're all nowjust have this awakening that
where we're so much, have somuch more productivity and we do
more work than we ever havebefore in our lives and we don't
have this negative passivity,emotional thing that just sucks
(29:19):
us down to the abyss of I don'twant to do shit, but I want to
get paid more.
Call them bullshit on theentire planet Earth right now it
doesn't exist.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
If you put me.
Well, that's why some of theforeign countries are beating
our brains out.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
If you, came and you said Eric, here's a million
bucks, you don't have to reallywork that hard to get it.
And actually I don't want tohave you know I'm going to take
the million bucks and not doanything.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Of course you're not.
You'd be stupid not to.
You'd be stupid not to.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Right, but the problem, the difference is it
might take a year or two for meto realize like I didn't earn
anything and I'm not going toget another job.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Well, you know, I keep talking about this book
that I got for Father's Day,where I have to write these
assignments.
It said how do you decide when?
The right time to retire wasone of the questions I had to
answer.
My answer was I'll never retire.
Don't, just don't retire.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Where did retirement come into the equation of life,
man Like, since the 50s orsomething?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
It's like I don't know, it's like I'm never going
to do it for two reasons A Ineed to make the money, yeah,
and B I wouldn't know what to dowith myself.
No one would, I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
You're not.
No one.
Nothing on Dude.
I was thinking about this theother day.
I was going to take my girlsout and say tell me, tell me one
thing on the entire planet thatis not struggling.
Tell me one thing that is juststaying the same.
Yeah and good, doing great.
(30:48):
It'll never change Nothing.
I can't think of anythingthat's either not growing or
dying.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
It's a good lesson, as a parent, to give them this
thought to ponder.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, it's the same thing in humanity If you stop
moving, you die.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Look, dude, again.
Nobody is happy if they're notaccomplishing anything.
It's the source of happiness.
It's not what you have, it'snot how many vacations you can
take, or places you go, or whereyou go out to eat, or what you
drive, or how big ass your houseis, or whatever.
(31:24):
None of that leads to happiness.
The only thing that leads tohappiness is accomplishment
Achieving.
Why would you give that up?
It's like I'm going to givethat up now and just be a
resource consumer.
Oh man, I suck, I don't putanything back.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Everybody has to contribute.
It's the key to happiness.
You don't contribute.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
You're depressed, Exactly so we're not going to
retire.
No, dude, Forget that.
No, no, I don't even want totalk about it.
Take me out of here.
People ask me like, well, whenare you going to stop?
When are you going to retirefrom the university?
I said when they carry me outof here on a freaking gurney is
when I am.
Okay.
Now I probably will die withall the steps that go between
(32:10):
the parking lot and the Collegeof Business building.
I in the College of Businessbuilding.
I can see myself collapsing andthat'll be it.
I'll look up.
I'll be 82 years old.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I'll look up at the sky and see, dude, if I'm there,
you know what I'm going to do,I'll be fine.
You know what I would do if Iwas with you.
What's that?
That last moment I'd pull yoursmokes out, I'd light up a
cigarette, a drag, and hand itto you and let you smoke but I
(32:40):
mean seriously, though we're notgoing to give up, and we don't
want professional serviceproviders who are interested in
doing nothing.
Yeah, or hybrid work, orbalanced lifestyle and all that
crap.
I don't know.
No, we don't care about any ofthat because you don't care
about my business so the let.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
the moral of the story is you want to learn the
truth?
Tune in to Big Talk about smallbusiness Until next time.
Okay, until next time.
We'll see you later.
From the studios ofPodcastVideoscom.
We're here in beautiful Rogers,arkansas, home of
(33:17):
PodcastVideoscom, oh yeah, andeverything else.
We've even got a PF Chang'shere, folks, it may be.
Arkansas, but you'd be surprised.
Okay, yeah, and the nicestWalmarts in the country.
It really is.
It's great you come toNorthwest Arkansas where they
they're based.
You're gonna see some nicewalmart's.
(33:37):
I got news for you.
You wouldn't even believe theone in downtown bentonville,
that walmart neighborhood market.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
It's beautiful, oh my gosh well, the one there uh,
the one right there off, uh, elmsprings, it's where I think,
yeah, yeah, sure, gorgeous, thathas all the innovative stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah, it's fantastic beautiful all right, we'll see
you all next week.
Thanks a lot.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
About Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to our website,
wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscomand click on the Ask the Host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk About Small
(34:23):
Business and be sure to headover to our website to read
articles, browse episodes andask questions about upcoming
shows.
It's just this.
I mean, I love professionalservice businesses.
They probably should never havedone anything else.
Okay, and because you and Iboth understand it's all about
service, okay, yeah, give it,yeah, it, just be involved
personally, know what the hellyou're doing and serve your
clients Well.
Yeah, and you will do well.
(00:20):
Hey, everybody, I'm back in thestudio here with my buddy and
partner, mr Eric Howerton.
Hi, marcus Zweig.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
How are you Good?
By the way, it's Zweig not.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Zweig.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I heard somebody say the other day yeah, you do that
show with Mark Zweig.
I'm like no.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Zweig, bro.
Yeah, it's long.
I like Budweiser.
That's what I always tell mystudents and they can remember
it.
Would you call it Budweiser?
Yeah, would you call itBudweiser?
The other one is they get AZweig.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Zweig.
I'm like no, or they go Zweig,Zweig, Zweig yeah it's like why
is it so hard?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
so march lag, thank you.
Another episode of big talkabout small business.
Hey, today we're going to betalking about dealing with
professional service providers.
Love it.
I got some opinions.
I do too.
I've got a lot of experiencewith them.
I think it's important.
I mean, every small businessneeds qualified professional
service advisors for accounting,tax, legal, it, many times
(01:34):
marketing, right, yep, hr,recruiting yes, there's a
million different avenues thatone can pursue finding
professional, qualityprofessional service providers.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, and those are things that you don't really
want to try to learn yourselvesor cut costs on.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Because they will always bite you.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Exactly.
Or you know, I notice herewe've got one of the things.
So I notice here we've got oneof the things.
One of the points is thatoutsourcing, a lot of it, is
about cost savings.
I don't necessarily think of itas cost savings, I think of it
as quality.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, I agree, you know Same thing A hundred
percent, like our HR person thatwe use, kathleen Hoffman.
Yeah, it's a hundred percentabout.
I know she has experience, shedoes the right thing, she knows
the rules, she knows how tohandle situations, the paperwork
filing.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
You're never going to know this as well as Kathleen,
never, never, and I don't wantto know, no, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
And she's just awesome.
She's the best that I've everand I've been using her for
golly man 15 years or something,yep, and she's just incredible
and she's fair.
Yep, you know, but 100% isabout the quality, it doesn't, I
don't.
My first question isn't likehow much are you going to charge
?
No, exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I mean, well, when you have a really good
relationship with yourprofessional service advisor,
you trust them, or provider, youtrust them, You're.
I don't ask for costs, I justhave people do it.
Yeah, I mean I might need acost in like an audit.
Yeah, Right, that's a.
That's another matter wherethere's a really defined scope.
But yeah, I mean it's, it's sotrue.
I mean I had a question aboutum raising equity capital and I
(03:23):
deal with one guy here locallynow in the AE business.
I deal with somebody whospecialize in that.
But when it comes to thesesmall entrepreneurial ventures,
I deal with Luke Renier here,who's taught at the law school.
He's got a company law firmcalled startup boutique.
He's super helpful.
I can go.
What about um?
Uh, direct public offerings.
(03:43):
What is your?
What do you know about that?
I mean you know, two hourslater I get a complete rundown
on everything what the costs are, what the forms are, what the
risks are.
How am I gonna possibly learnthat?
Right, you know what I mean.
100 it's.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
It's invaluable, the advice you get from the right
professional service providersyou know one thing on here like
it talks about, you know it goesthrough about marketing human
resource and then bringscustomer support.
That's something that I don'tknow, that I really would agree
with that.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
I want to outsource yeah, oh, this is when you say
it says here this is the sheetthat we get, yeah, from somebody
on eric's staff at podcastvideoscom that they prepare for
us um, before every show and um,it's uh that the uh headline
says outsourcing is prevalentamong small businesses and eric
(04:36):
is citing um, some of thesethings digital marketing 34 of
firms outsource that development.
I don't know what developmentmeans.
28%.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Probably like software development.
Okay yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Human resources 24% and customer support 24%.
He said he doesn't know if heagrees with that Boy.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I'm with you, that's coming from exploding topics as
a source, but I mean, like Ijust can't.
I'm 100% with you, I wouldnever outsource that.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Why would you want to disconnect yourself from your
customers and their problems?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, that's bad news Now, objectively, have we ever
called somebody and obviouslyreceived an outsourced customer
support hotline?
Yeah, absolutely, but it's amassive frustrating experience.
Oh, dude, those are forcommoditized companies like
internet.
You know water.
(05:26):
Whatever it might be right,whatever that is that you that
you need utility type stuff,airlines airlines.
I hate dealing with theoutsourced but I mean, there was
no way I would do that for asmall business, me neither.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I agree with you a hundred percent.
You need to get the feedbackdirectly.
You need to be respondingquickly and talk about
representing the brand.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
the right way Exactly .
Speaker 1 (05:49):
You don't know.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Number one.
This is either an existing paidclient or somebody that's just
started, or hell if they've beenmore impactful.
They've been with me for a yearand they call somebody and they
talk to somebody that has noconnection to my business.
No way, it's going to happen,no way.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
And people do that for prospecting too.
Yeah, I don't like that either.
Okay, I don't like that either.
I'll never forget when I firstcame back to Swag White, which
is today's Swag Group, and itwas owned by the lender, they
had outsourced and you werethere, you might remember this
they had outsourced a lot ofoutbound calling to the
(06:25):
Philippines.
Do you remember that?
I do.
Yeah, I got a recording of avoice message sent to me by one
of my clients and friends, whoseboard I was on, of his company
before we sold it for many years, and he was like holy cow, this
is who you guys have out there.
Guy couldn't even pronounce thename of the company.
(06:47):
That's not good man.
You know it looked terrible.
We pulled the plug on that.
So yeah, not everything issmart to outsource.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
You know, going down this tube.
We're talking about challengeswith outsourcing include
managing remote and hybrid teams.
So what the stat?
58% of knowledge workers todaywork in hybrid arrangements.
78% desire flexibilityregarding where they work, and I
guess that's referring to the,to the actual outsource team.
(07:17):
But I'm here to say that as asmall business, I don't even.
I do have a couple of suppliersthat are outside the area, but
mostly, especially with the mainones the legal, the HR, the IT,
marketing Dude no way I wouldeven hire.
I don't use firms outside of mylocal area.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
I think that's really smart.
I mean, yesterday I had asignificant IT issue and I
called this Y group, supportpeople, which is Megabyte right
here in Rogers.
Yeah, okay, and I know the guythat owns it, wes Yep, and Wes
wasn't there.
I didn't ask for him, I got oneof his guys.
(07:58):
But the fact that they know usand have known us for a long
time, yeah, there's so much moremotivated, I think, to do a
good job, yeah, and to help usout.
I mean, it's a genuine desireto help people.
They know what's that worth.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
What's worth millions , mark, it's actually.
That gives me a comfort tothink that my team that's
employed, and all my providerswant to help each other be
successful.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Exactly, it's a mutually beneficial thing based
on relationships, the people whoactually care about each other.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Like, if you don't, if I don't, provide the service
that you're paying for, and it'sgoing to hurt your business,
it's going to hurt your team,it's going to hurt the community
, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
And the thing is is like You're so right about that
local, though.
I mean I never really thoughtabout that.
I mean, some things are sonarrow and specialized I'm not
going to be able to get local,but we're in a big enough area
where most stuff is local.
I mean, just like the attorneyI mentioned, luke, I'm having
lunch with him on Monday.
Yeah, lunch with him on Monday.
Yeah, nothing special to talkabout, by the way, that's good.
(09:05):
Okay, it's just, we just talk.
You have a relationship.
Yeah, I care about him.
I want to see him be successful.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
He cares about me, he tries to help me out.
Yeah, yeah, no, I'm with you,man.
I tell you and here's, here's,a service provider that I would
not do business with is somebodythat wants to have flexibility
in their life, in a, and be ableto work remote because it's
good for them.
Oh yeah, I'm not going tosubscribe to that.
I'm not going to pay you.
If you say that to me, I'mactually not going to use you
because I don't want a serviceprovider who I'm depending on
(09:37):
and when I need your help, yeahthey're like I'm not working,
now I've got my work-lifebalance you're out again.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
I mean I hate to keep just plugging Luke on this,
okay, but I can text him at nineo'clock at night and I'll hear
back from the guy.
He's not like, well, I'm shutdown now I'm on personal time.
He's got kids, he's got.
You know what I mean it's like.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
It's like this business, man, it's always
business.
It's always time for it.
Bro, like dude, my client textsme at nine o'clock at night.
I'm going to respond.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
No, you're going to say send him an auto-reply.
I'll be back in the office at 9am.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
You taught me one of the best lessons in the world
and I see it happen all the time, like I see it in my own
company.
Speaking of, we had an episodetalking about procrastinating
and talking about things thatbother us.
Yeah, I need to nail this oneahead too, like I have like, but
when somebody says has an autoreply I'm out of office, on
(10:35):
vacation, won't return for nextweek.
You taught me a long 15 yearsago, if never, ever, ever, do
that I hate it.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
People still argue with me about it like no man, I
like the thing is, I always likethe people arguing with me
about it.
And then I look like the thingis, I always like the people
arguing with me about it.
And then I look at him like howsuccessful have you been?
How many businesses did youpersonally own?
Speaker 2 (10:52):
okay, right right, so you know, and you shouldn't
have auto response like I don't.
I have not had one in 15 years.
No, because of what you taughtme, mark now, that's nice of you
to say yeah, but it is.
But I mean like, but theresponsibility is okay, I might
not get to it, but I will get toit, probably within 24 hours of
the wait.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Oh yeah, it won't take you that long, especially
if it's something that needsattention.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, right, like I constantly watch my emails and
my texts, of course you do.
Yeah, now, some I do postpone.
Yeah, now, some I do postponeresponse.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, there's some things that are just not urgent.
They're just not urgent orimportant, right, right.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
But I would shame myself if I had an autoresponder
that says I'm out for a week.
A client or somebody, a partner, sends an email and it pops
back over to them immediatelyI'm out for a week.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
I don't want them thinking in their mind for a
minute second that I willrespond to them, or, but here's
what they'll say I'm out for aweek, but you can call my
assistant, who doesn't know shit.
Oh, he's gonna help you.
No, they're not gonna help me.
I don't want to talk to yourassistant, right?
They're so far removed from youand what you know.
I have no desire to talk withthem.
Yeah, that's not who I'mcalling, it's not helpful for me
yeah, why did you even put thatin there?
people think that that excusesit, though, if they throw
(12:10):
somebody in there as theirassistant.
I never had an assistant, andneither did you, though let's be
honest, yeah, okay no, I know,I know I've had people trying to
get them to me.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
They've asked to be, they've asked to help.
I don't even.
I had somebody just not evensix weeks ago, says I can really
help.
You, take this stuff off yourplate, I can help.
I'm like, and immediately.
That request is overwhelming tome.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Oh, me too.
It's like oh, so you're goingto disconnect me from everything
.
I need to be connected.
I have somebody check my emailsfor me and reply or make my
(12:55):
calls for me outbound calls.
Would you like Mr Swag, holdfor Mr Swag, get to me on the
phone?
Have you ever had anybody dothat to you?
Yes, I have.
That is such a power play,isn't it?
I'm sure I said this, Iprobably told you this before,
but I had a guy do that to meonce and I hung up on him twice
(13:17):
and the third time he called me.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
He's like this must be.
Please hold for MrWhatever-His-Name-Was.
I'm out?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, I'm out.
It's the same thing like onemails yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Hey, I'm so, and so my boss sent me this message to
reach out to you.
I'm like I'm out.
Yeah, let me talk to your boss,then why can't he call me?
Yeah, it's like, no, I'm out.
Well, out back on professionalservice advisors then, yeah,
okay, where do you find goodones?
Generally, my experience isthat it comes from two places a
I try, I try people and see ifthey perform.
If they don't, I never use themagain.
(13:55):
Or B referrals from otherpeople I trust and know 100%.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Mostly it's referrals , yeah which, yeah, 100%, isn't
it?
Yeah, yeah, I ask around, Imean I have a.
I mean, when I was building myhouse I was asking about parts.
Sure, like I mean, why would Ispend all this time?
And I trust you, right, I knowthat you're not going to put up
with any crap.
I've done it yeah, but youalready have put up with the
(14:21):
crap and gone through thoseweeds and so I'm just going to
call and ask, like, who do yourecommend?
Yep, 100%, or my HR?
You know, kathleen, kathleen,I'll call her and ask her.
Sure, she's going to knowpeople, she's going to see how
certain companies handle things.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Exactly.
I mean I just last night no,well, night before last we were
at Eastside Grill and ran intoGary Head there.
You know Gary, he's the founderof Signature.
He was on our show once.
Great guy.
I love Gary, done a lot ofbusiness with him.
I sent so many clients his way.
Yeah, okay, and he introduced meto this guy.
(14:58):
He was a developer and had adesign build um, contracting and
development company, commercialand residential, moved here
from little rock recently andsaid that he was looking for a
new bank.
Um, when he introduced me tohim and I let me tell you about
this guy, okay, first off,dealing with Signature Bank,
you're going to have a lowfriction experience.
(15:21):
They know how to make it easyand I really like that.
But I said the second thing isI've been doing business with
Gary for 20 years and you knowwhy I first got Gary.
I asked around.
I had two people tell me.
My accountant and a real estateagent who's also an attorney
said call Gary Head, I had anissue.
I don't know the guy.
(15:42):
Okay, give me his cell number.
I call him.
He answers the phone.
He's in Cabo San Lucas atTyson's Place Vacation.
He answers the phone.
He talks to me for like 20 or30 minutes.
Okay, who am I gonna dobusiness with?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
the person that answers and talks to you at it,
or I mean because they want todo business yeah, now, before I
found him, I was dealing withanother bank.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
That's a big bank and they sent me into their system,
which is horrible inquireonline.
You can't even get anybody totalk to.
You can't find your phonenumber.
You got to submit an onlinerequest.
Yeah, you get called bysomebody you don't know outside
of the area.
Who am I going to deal with?
You know?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Gary's.
Gary's been a master at thatrelational thing.
You talk about somebody that,really, and he was on our show
and he talked about it a lot andhe, you know.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
He had Merle Haggard as a client.
For God's sakes, there you go.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
How can you lose that ?
But the fact that you have thispassion, like if you, I mean,
and this?
You don't have to be anentrepreneur for this, although
he is, but if anybody cares, allyou've got to do is care about
what you're doing for otherpeople and recognize how
important it is he never says hedoesn't have enough time to
(17:08):
talk to somebody.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
How do you do?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
that, with all the locations and the billions of
dollars, they've got, because heknows, at the essence of it,
it's him caring Because helegitimately cares about being a
banker.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, and so About helping people, I know, after we
saw him on Monday night, mywife we go home and she's
texting Gary because she's got aclient who's got a problem that
needs Gary's help.
Yeah, okay, and the guy's, likeyou know, he's responding at
frigging nine o'clock at nightand he's going to deal with the
(17:42):
guy and I know he'll help him.
He's got a great business.
He's got a horrible bank that'snot responding to his needs
after 20, 30 years, or whateverit is, of building this business
.
He's dealing with a mega bankwhose name I won't mention,
who's not responsive and doesn'tcare about him.
And yet Gary will take the time.
(18:02):
Okay, and my wife's like theguy is unbelievable Always take
the time.
He's always going to take thetime to sell a new client.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Okay, this is a good point because I think it's so
subjective and I think it'simportant for people to hear.
But when we think we've gottentoo big for our own britches,
like there's a threshold, I'vebeen there, I've acted like that
.
Oh, I have too, I've behavedthat way, right, like I don't
need to deal with the $1,000 amonth clients month clients I
(18:33):
only deal with twenty thousanddollar month clients.
Yeah, that's the beginning ofyour time.
Yes, it is, it was.
It's so demoralizing and youlose yourself and yeah, and shit
starts breaking from underneaththe foundation.
Right, I know, it's so true,but what that's what I think I
appreciate about what gary isdoing, is that he, he, he has
found the reality of don't ever,you know like, because what
(18:54):
your wife was texting him abouta client that needs help.
I'm sure this probably isn't,like you know, like some mega.
It's not.
It's a small business, but it'sa solid one.
But, gary, he's not too big forhis britches.
No, fix that Exactly.
It keeps your concrete in man,dude it's funny.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
In fact, these guys do foundations.
It's funny.
You said that Okay, I mean wow,I can't believe how profound
that is.
But yeah, exactly.
But see, that's what I want outof all my.
I consider a bank, aprofessional service advisor, by
the way, 100% 100%.
They're not just a source ofmoney no, okay, but that's what
I want.
By the way, they're aconsultant 100%.
(19:34):
They're not just a source ofmoney no, okay, but that's what
I want out of all myprofessional service providers.
I want that mentality.
That mentality, yes, and no jobis too small, no questions too
annoying.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
When I hear of a professional service provider
that's starting that becausethey're tired of working so hard
over here and they want abalance of life and they're, you
know, they want to stay at homeso they can be with I don't
even hear about that.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I don't know if you're dealing with somebody.
We even say that I hear aboutthat all the time.
Well, you deal with thesesoftware guys and I'm like, well
, okay, maybe they think theycan get away the computer jobs.
Yeah, the lawyers and theaccountants and stuff, they
understand that ain't going tofly, the good ones.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Right, that's what I'm talking about.
I've had people that are inthose services that are talking
like that's, they leave a bigattorney firm because they want
to have a better, balanced life.
I'm like dude, you're out, likeyou're the opposite of what I
want, exactly Worse than the bigfirm.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Yeah, you know, because like they at least have
other people, maybe they canbring in if you're not available
, or whatever Right, rightExactly, they're not buying what
I want, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
You know just somebody?
Yeah, like this is bull.
You know somebody else and firehow much I'm doing?
Yeah, there's been someuncomfortable things.
Oh, yeah, you got to fire that.
Not the whole firm, but theperson.
Yeah, like this person, I didit.
I've gone around people beforeI did it, like about a year ago
at a legal firm.
Yeah, like this person is notproviding me sure what I need.
(21:01):
And so they, they responded,yeah, congratulations.
But it comes down, that personthat cares.
Like now if a service providercomes to me and says, hey, man,
I I don't.
I want to provide betterservice, I want to grow this, I
want to help the community, Iwant to provide better service,
I want to grow this, I want tohelp the community, I want to
help my clients.
I'm passionate about that, Icare.
I'm like now you're talking,yeah, like I might switch,
(21:24):
because if you care more than Ihave that cares, then I'd rather
be with you.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah, let's be with you.
Who do you want to be friendswith?
Somebody who really cares orsomebody that doesn't?
I mean, think about that.
It is that simple, isn't it?
It is 100% that simple.
I mean, I know, if they reallycare, we're likely to care about
them and I'm not going toinvest my time in anybody who
doesn't.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Because, as an entrepreneur, the whole reason
you're getting it like you wantemployees that care Right, you
want partners that care right,you want partners that care.
You want clients that care.
All we want to do, we have adream and a passion to do to
build something nice, goodquality that that helps out of
nothing.
Out of nothing, yeah, that'sexcellent.
That's excellent and we, andthe only way you can build that
(22:10):
excellence is if everybodythat's part of it cares yep,
you're only as good as theweakest link, dude.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
It's so true, it really is.
It's like a chain man the weaklink breaks the whole chain.
The rest of them can all bestrong and you should not
discredit.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I think that's a really good analogy, because you
obviously see that with youremployees, your full-time staff,
sure, that's an obvious, it'sthe chain right, but part of
that chain is also yourprofessional service contractors
that you're dealing with.
It really is, yeah, and if youhave a weak link, in hr or weak
link in legal whatever orbanking I'm telling you, or
(22:48):
accounting yeah, or it supportyeah, so I'd use tds here
locally.
Uh, tim stanley, they'refantastic, man.
I mean, they drop of a hat,they set you up, they come, they
service it.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
It's fantastic, it's what it takes yeah, it's what it
takes to be successful 100 careon top of I bet tim stanley
still involved with the businessoh, he totally is.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah, totally, yeah, he totally is.
Yeah, you know, speaking of aservice provider, like you know,
this is personal, but we hadpast right, yeah, and I know
that I have some friends thatown a heating and plumbing
business.
You'd probably be pissed at mesaying this, but the truth is
they came out, they fixedsomething and they came out on a
(23:32):
courtesy call to go anddouble-check their work.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
When is the last time a contractor did that?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
I know, man, but they are showing that they care
about their work, about yourproperty, about what you pay
them to do.
I mean, dude, I'm sorry, butthat's—.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
That means a lot it does.
Just yesterday I had a problemwith electrical in my garage.
Means a lot.
Listen, just yesterday I had aproblem with electrical in my
garage.
I blew out some outlets and Icould not find the gfi or
circuit breaker to bring theseoutlets back.
I sent a text to my electricianat like nine o'clock at night.
Yeah, he responds.
Guy who owns the company.
Yeah, okay, he responds.
(24:10):
He goes, he calls me the nextor text me the next.
I'm going to send so-and-so out.
He'll be there in about twohours.
Sends these two guys out.
I know the guys Fixed theproblem, then sent us a text and
said there'll be no charge forthat today.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Who is this?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
I mean, it's Shane Hall, shane Hall Electric.
It's such a beautiful thing.
Who does that for you, you know?
I mean it's like you think I'mgonna refer him to other people,
or not?
yeah, I know we're gonna referthem to our millions of
listeners that we have on theshow yeah, do you think I'm
(24:47):
gonna be out there like, um, Ineed to shop shane, because no,
the last they came, they chargedme 180 bucks to do something
and it only took them 30 minutes.
That seems like a lot.
No, I'm not going to.
No man, I trust him.
They fixed the problem.
Responsive, responsive.
Responsive to set up the call.
Responsive to actually show up.
(25:08):
Showed they cared.
It's just this.
I mean, I love professionalservice businesses.
They probably should never havedone anything else.
Okay, and because you and Iboth understand it's all about
service, okay, yeah, give it.
Yeah, it just be involvedpersonally, know what the hell
you're doing and serve yourclients.
(25:29):
Well, yeah, and you will dowell, okay, that's who we want
working for us.
It's.
We're not doing this to savemoney.
I can't believe it.
83 of organizations havereduced costs through
outsourcing.
59 use outsourcing servicesspecifically to cut costs.
I think those are probably bigcompanies.
(25:51):
Yeah, they have, don't.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
They have to be small companies.
I mean, you know you wouldn'tdo that.
No, because it's not about thecost savings.
Now, there are certainscenarios if I have a full-time,
you know, and there's an agencyor somebody that can do more
services with better qualitythan a full-timer, yeah, you
don't need the full-timer either, Right?
(26:15):
Right, yeah, but I'd probablywouldn't make the move because
they're cutting costs.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
No, you do it because of quality, exactly.
Yeah, they know better I canget.
So it's kind of like fractionalCFOs is a good example.
You know that's a big thing.
There's a lot of companies outthere that provide that service
now and you know people likewell, why do I want a fractional
?
If I'm going to pay 150 for afractional cfo, I can go hire a
real one for 150, not the oneyou're getting from the
(26:42):
fractional cfo company.
True, that person might be athree or four hundred thousand
dollar a year cfo.
You're getting them for 150.
You're getting the best of them.
Okay, so you get a better.
I don't need them therefull-time right, there's not
full-time work to be had,exactly, but I want quality,
yeah, that's I don't want tohave to, you know, to go through
(27:05):
some hell a year or two fromnow.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, because of these practices right.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
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Speaker 1 (27:26):
So that's why I mean I think, a lot of times people.
To me, the reason to gofractional or outsource is
quality.
It's expertise that I cannotget on my own Okay.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
And I would say that there is like, on the fraction,
like you might, you would savemoney from having to spend 400
grand to the 150.
But, like I said, like you canmean there is some savings there
, but it's because you don'thave full-time need for that.
Yeah, exactly, let's say I'm a$5 million company.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I can't afford savings there, but it's it's
because you don't have full-timeneed for that.
Yeah, exactly, let's say I'm afive million dollar company.
I can't afford a four hundredthousand dollar cfo.
I'm not paying myself 400 grandanywhere.
I'm not right.
I mean, yeah, um.
So yeah, it's interesting, umchallenges.
Uh.
58 of knowledge workers todaywork in hybrid arrangements.
(28:15):
78% desire flexibilityregarding where they work,
according to NetSuite.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
I don't even want to talk about that stat.
It infuriates me.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, importance of clear communication and
expectations.
Risks of long-term contractswith auto renewal clauses.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Here's the deal, man If you work for me full-time,
you're coming to the office.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I know Well, I'm with you on that.
I'm also a believer that Ithink this four-day work week
stuff's crap.
I'm not going to get the sameproductivity out of people in
four tens that I'll get out offive, eights or whatever.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
I can't believe the blinding bull crap that we have,
that humans have changed all ofa sudden from the dawn of time
that since 2020, we're all nowjust have this awakening that
where we're so much, have somuch more productivity and we do
more work than we ever havebefore in our lives and we don't
have this negative passivity,emotional thing that just sucks
(29:19):
us down to the abyss of I don'twant to do shit, but I want to
get paid more.
Call them bullshit on theentire planet Earth right now it
doesn't exist.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
If you put me.
Well, that's why some of theforeign countries are beating
our brains out.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
If you, came and you said Eric, here's a million
bucks, you don't have to reallywork that hard to get it.
And actually I don't want tohave you know I'm going to take
the million bucks and not doanything.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Of course you're not.
You'd be stupid not to.
You'd be stupid not to.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Right, but the problem, the difference is it
might take a year or two for meto realize like I didn't earn
anything and I'm not going toget another job.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Well, you know, I keep talking about this book
that I got for Father's Day,where I have to write these
assignments.
It said how do you decide when?
The right time to retire wasone of the questions I had to
answer.
My answer was I'll never retire.
Don't, just don't retire.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Where did retirement come into the equation of life,
man Like, since the 50s orsomething?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
It's like I don't know, it's like I'm never going
to do it for two reasons A Ineed to make the money, yeah,
and B I wouldn't know what to dowith myself.
No one would, I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
You're not.
No one.
Nothing on Dude.
I was thinking about this theother day.
I was going to take my girlsout and say tell me, tell me one
thing on the entire planet thatis not struggling.
Tell me one thing that is juststaying the same.
Yeah and good, doing great.
(30:48):
It'll never change Nothing.
I can't think of anythingthat's either not growing or
dying.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
It's a good lesson, as a parent, to give them this
thought to ponder.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, it's the same thing in humanity If you stop
moving, you die.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Look, dude, again.
Nobody is happy if they're notaccomplishing anything.
It's the source of happiness.
It's not what you have, it'snot how many vacations you can
take, or places you go, or whereyou go out to eat, or what you
drive, or how big ass your houseis, or whatever.
(31:24):
None of that leads to happiness.
The only thing that leads tohappiness is accomplishment
Achieving.
Why would you give that up?
It's like I'm going to givethat up now and just be a
resource consumer.
Oh man, I suck, I don't putanything back.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Everybody has to contribute.
It's the key to happiness.
You don't contribute.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
You're depressed, Exactly so we're not going to
retire.
No, dude, Forget that.
No, no, I don't even want totalk about it.
Take me out of here.
People ask me like, well, whenare you going to stop?
When are you going to retirefrom the university?
I said when they carry me outof here on a freaking gurney is
when I am.
Okay.
Now I probably will die withall the steps that go between
(32:10):
the parking lot and the Collegeof Business building.
I in the College of Businessbuilding.
I can see myself collapsing andthat'll be it.
I'll look up.
I'll be 82 years old.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I'll look up at the sky and see, dude, if I'm there,
you know what I'm going to do,I'll be fine.
You know what I would do if Iwas with you.
What's that?
That last moment I'd pull yoursmokes out, I'd light up a
cigarette, a drag, and hand itto you and let you smoke but I
(32:40):
mean seriously, though we're notgoing to give up, and we don't
want professional serviceproviders who are interested in
doing nothing.
Yeah, or hybrid work, orbalanced lifestyle and all that
crap.
I don't know.
No, we don't care about any ofthat because you don't care
about my business so the let.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
the moral of the story is you want to learn the
truth?
Tune in to Big Talk about smallbusiness Until next time.
Okay, until next time.
We'll see you later.
From the studios ofPodcastVideoscom.
We're here in beautiful Rogers,arkansas, home of
(33:17):
PodcastVideoscom, oh yeah, andeverything else.
We've even got a PF Chang'shere, folks, it may be.
Arkansas, but you'd be surprised.
Okay, yeah, and the nicestWalmarts in the country.
It really is.
It's great you come toNorthwest Arkansas where they
they're based.
You're gonna see some nicewalmart's.
(33:37):
I got news for you.
You wouldn't even believe theone in downtown bentonville,
that walmart neighborhood market.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
It's beautiful, oh my gosh well, the one there uh,
the one right there off, uh, elmsprings, it's where I think,
yeah, yeah, sure, gorgeous, thathas all the innovative stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah, it's fantastic beautiful all right, we'll see
you all next week.
Thanks a lot.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Thanks for tuning into this episode of Big Talk
About Small Business.
If you have any questions orideas for upcoming shows, be
sure to head over to our website,
wwwbigtalkaboutsmallbusinesscomand click on the Ask the Host
button for the chance to haveyour questions answered on the
show.
Stay connected with us onLinkedIn at Big Talk About Small
(34:23):
Business and be sure to headover to our website to read
articles, browse episodes andask questions about upcoming
shows.
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