October 18, 2024 • 55 mins
This week our team convinced us to try the viral Dua Lipa Diet Coke drink and let’s just say… It was interesting. We also do a deep dive into LeBron’s career and recent debut with his son, Bronny, the upcoming WAGS reality TV show, if everyone really needs a hobby and share a hot take on our kids’ art projects.
More from us:
- Mitzi Payne @mmmitziP
- Mike Payne @mmmiiike
Timestamps:
01:30 – What we’re talking about today.
03:00 – Dua Lipa’s viral Diet Coke drink (our team made us try it).
08:00 – Our next question: Why did Dua Lipa do this?
11:00 – Thing 1: LeBron and Bronny play their first game together
15:00 – NBA marketing, Michael Jordan and Lebron.
22:00 – Some of LeBron’s legacy and family ties.
28:00 – The WAGS reality show picked the wrong team.
31:15 – Thing 2: Does everyone really need a hobby?
36:00 – Our hobbies (Mitzi’s baking era).
41:50 – A hot take on our kids’ art projects.
44:00 – Thing 3: Rachel Karten’s social media trend report for Q3.
46:40 – Brands are hiring for Creative Directors for social media. Why we love this.
Show notes:
1. SCAN 👀 CLUB: https://scanclub.substack.com/p/what-digital-audiences-want-in-2024
2. Rachel Karten’s Social Media Trend Report: https://www.milkkarten.net/p/brand-social-trend-report-q3-2024
Big Things with Mitzi (@mmmitzi) and Mike (@mmmiiike).
For more from Arcade, follow us on Instagram and TikTok @helloarcade. https://www.arcadearcade.ca/
Production by Morgan Berna, editing by Oliver Banyard.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Oh, I'm ready for my day.
That's nice.
Okay, ready, Michael Looks good.
Welcome to Big Things.
I'm Mitzi.
This is Mike.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
And this is our show where we talk about all the big
things that we're watching inmarketing, social media, pop
culture and sports.
We'll also talk through signalsthat we're seeing that could
influence the future of digitalmarketing.
You can catch the show everyweek on YouTube or anywhere.
You get your podcasts and, ofcourse, you got to tune into
Instagram where we'll be sharingupdates and fun little trending
(00:35):
TikToks and things like thatthroughout the week.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Totally.
And again, if you're a listenerof Waves or Tea for Lunch,
you're going to love this show.
It's a little different fromwhat we were doing before.
You'll see less interviews, butyou'll see more news, pop
culture, signals and trends andwe'll help you zoom out and have
a more proactive approachrather than being stuck in a
reactive mode.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And you'll get a little bit more of our point of
view and how we see thingsthrough our lens.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Totally yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
If you're new here, we're married.
We have kids.
We're co-founders of a digitalmarketing agency called Arcade.
That takes a lot of our time.
We always say it's our firstchild.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Sometimes our problem child.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, true, we've been working in the digital
marketing space for about 15years we fact-checked that last
episode and we've had the chanceto work on some pretty fun
clients and campaigns, so we'regoing to try and bring some of
that experience into some ofthese conversations.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Today we're going to be talking about a few big
things.
The first one is Dua Lipa brokethe internet with her Diet Coke
drink.
Lebron and Bronny played intheir first NBA game together.
We're going to talk abouthobbies and if everyone actually
needs them, and we're going tobreak down Rachel Carden's Q3
social media trends report andjust pull out some things that
(01:50):
we thought were interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Giddy up.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Yeah, but first did you see that video of Dua Lipa I
?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
did.
I've seen it all over TikTokand all the responses.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Totally so.
If you don't know what I'mtalking about, dua Lipa.
Over the weekend she postedthis video about her Diet Coke
drink and she basically poured acan of Diet Coke into a glass
of ice and then she pouredpickle juice and jalapeno juice.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
As well as like some actual pieces of pickles and
jalapenos.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
That part put me over the edge because I was down to
try, but with actual slices ofpickles I wasn't sure, it's like
a garnish, you know, like youhave a Caesar or a martini.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
There's stuff in there, you know, and just adds
to the experience it reminds meof a Caesar, and I just don't
like Caesars.
Think about it as a martiniwith an olive.
A little different I guess, assoon as you insert pickles into
the conversation, or picklejuice, you have my attention.
I am a big pickle fan,especially garlic dills.
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
That is not my vibe.
I'm an olive girly, I lovemartinis, I love olives in
general, so that would be moremy direction.
So maybe this is the best ofboth worlds.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Maybe we need to experiment a bit and figure out
like maybe we end up replacingjalapenos with olives or
something like that, and maybethis will be finally the way
that we replace Coke with DietCoke for you.
Well, I mean, I think wecrossed that bridge recently.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, you said it, but you haven't done it.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, but I've slowly been drinking Diet Coke here
and there, just because you'realways buying it and I think
because of that I've acclimatedto it a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Where before it always tasted kind of gross to
me.
Now it's like I kind of see theappeal.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
No, it's so good I just crave the aspartame.
It's so and like a crispyaspartame diet Coke, like it's
just nothing.
Nothing can beat it.
Also, if it comes from afountain instead of like a
fountain, what is that?
Like a, not an app.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Like a fountain instead of like a fountain.
What is that like?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
not like a fountain coke, yeah if it's like a
fountain diet coke, yeah, over acanned coke or a bottled diet
coke, that is the most elitediet coke so would you rank it
like fountain diet coke, canneddiet coke, then bottled no, it
goes.
Mcdonald's fountain diet cokethen Bottled one liter diet coke
(04:06):
, then every other fountain dietcoke Then can.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Bottle over can.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, one liter bottle.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I feel like I've always experienced better
beverages From a can than abottle, unless it's a glass
bottle.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
No, I just don't think the can does it for me.
I like the sensory experienceof cracking it open, but the one
liter bottle is where it's at.
Like I don't know somethingabout the one liter bottle, like
over the two liter.
Two liter gets flat too fast.
One liter is like the perfectamount that'll last you a week.
You get two uses out of a oneliter, Exactly yeah, Whereas a
(04:41):
can you're committed tofinishing that thing or dumping
it at the end which, whereas acan you're committed to
finishing that thing or dumpingit at the end, which is not hard
to finish it, but I don't knowsomething about, although a can
does hit in the middle of a workday.
We do have cans of Diet Coke atthe office and it's really nice
to have, but anyways, I thoughtthat today on the show we
should try it.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I'm down, let's do it .
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, so let's bring in our assistant.
This is our.
It's like the price is rightwhen you know you have those
like assistants.
This is pamela, our socialmedia intern.
They're one of the manywonderful jobs you get to do as
an internet arcade.
Wow, wow, this is amazing,thank you, okay.
So we got our cans of diet coke.
(05:20):
We got our glasses of water.
This, this is.
Which juice is which?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I think this is.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Pickle Jalapeno Taller one's jalapeno Alright.
I'm gonna go easy on the juices, I think.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
I feel like we gotta crack the can in the mic.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Oh, definitely For the.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
ASMR, that was a good can crack.
That was a good can crack yougot to pour yours in the mic,
yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
We might even have to do an ASMR IG post I have done
one for Arcade Really Mm-hmm,can you hear those bubbles?
It's a crispy one.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
All right, are we putting juice in here?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I'm all for this right now, but the juice is like
oh, you got to get the juice in.
Okay, I can do it.
This looks so gross.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Oh, it smells good.
I can smell the pickles.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yuck, I am not.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And the garnish.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Not a pickle girly.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I'm only doing one jalapeno.
I'm a lightweight.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I don't want any jalapeno, I'm just doing pickles
.
Alright Gross, I don't haveanything to stir with.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So it's just gonna be my finger.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Oh, you're stirring.
I am not going to do that.
No, thank you.
Should we cheers?
Salute alright, let's see here.
Do you want to go first?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
on the count of three .
Okay, one, two, three.
That is strange.
I was like really prepared tolove it.
To be honest, no, I just.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Maybe I do need to stir it yeah, I feel like you.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Just you mostly lose the diet coke flavor and just
you taste savory, which I don'tmind, but it's also like not
truly pickle juice flavor, it'snot truly jalapeno, so it just
seems like they all kind ofcancel each other out yeah, I
don't think this is for me tellme more.
(07:42):
What are you experiencing?
What's the flavor profile?
It?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
it tastes like oh, thank you.
It tastes like.
I think some people might likeit.
It kind of tastes like ahamburger tastes like a salty
diet coke.
That's honestly all that it iswell, no, every time I take
another sip thinking it might bebetter.
It's confusing to me because Istill kind of get the Diet Coke,
(08:09):
which makes I feel like mybody's programmed to get another
sip, but it's just not givingme what I need.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
You're getting the sugar and your body's response
is like let's have more, butyour tongue is like what the
hell?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
No, I don't like it.
And the pickle like the thingis, I can like smell the pickle
juice before I drink it.
You know, smell is a big partof taste.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
You're just offending yourself.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, it's like what am I thinking?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Sipping a Diet Coke, smelling a pickle.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah, my take is just stick to the classic.
Like I could see Dua Lipa beinginto this drink, though.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It's like unique and different.
What is it about Dua Lipa thatyou would say that I?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
just feel like she's an artist and she like artists,
like need to be, like differentand unique, and I appreciate
that about her.
I love her.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
What was the desired outcome for trying this in the
first place?
Like, was there like a healthbenefit that caused her to try
something like this?
Like?
A mix of sugar and like highsodium or something like that.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
It's just for the vibes, it's just for fun.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
But who just comes up with that out of thin air?
Speaker 1 (09:17):
You know artists.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Party one night.
You're kind of tipsy.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
It does kind of taste like a hamburger.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
No one is mixing these things and saying,
hopefully it tastes like ahamburger.
So I'm just trying to figureout where it came from.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
But I think maybe it was a dare.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
It's got to be a dare .
Speaker 1 (09:33):
No, it seems like it's like her drink.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
It's become that, but how did it start?
That's what I'm trying to getto.
Anyways, we don't have theanswers.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I wonder if it would be better if it was shaken like
a martini.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
You'd lose the fizz, Like the.
What's the word Carbonation?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yuck.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I don't know, I'll stick to Diet Coke or just
pickles.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
I kind of just want a straight up Diet Coke.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Sip from the can.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Oof, I mean in the hierarchy of best Diet Cokes.
That's last Straight up from acan.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
All right, let's just leave it and get into thing two
.
How about that?
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Okay, sounds good.
I think they need to clear it,though.
Maybe just the tequila in thatrank Diet Coke.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, I was expecting more.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, I was hoping it would be good.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Well, now that we've had a hamburger and a cup, let's
get into thing two.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
LeBron and Bronny playing their first NBA game
together.
It was preseason we still gotthe regular season coming in hot
but it was an iconic moment and, honestly, this really got me
thinking.
It all started after this gamehappened with a haircut, which,
honestly, the best stories startwith a haircut especially for
you.
You're a haircut guy yeah, I'vealways said you're only as good
(10:52):
as your last haircut and I standby that statement.
No one can refute it.
But I was getting a haircut ontuesday and I was chatting with
richard from goat shop shout outto the Goat Shop, that's the
best place to get your hair cutbut we were talking about the
fact that they were playingtogether and also just that
(11:13):
everlasting, never-ending LeBronversus Michael Jordan debate,
and I think that that debateprimarily circles around their
performance on the court andtheir stats, and when that's the
case, I admittedly lean moretowards Michael Jordan.
But what we got talking aboutas I was getting my haircut was
(11:37):
more so the legacy of theplayers and what their impact
was outside of the game itself,but also with their family and
social impact and the brandimpact of the NBA when they were
players.
So I wanted to just talk aboutthat a little bit.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, let's do it Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
So, first off, I know that you're a fan of Savannah.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
I love Savannah.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
We've talked about wags on this show, more so in
the NFL context, but wags areeverywhere.
They're in the NBA, they're inthe NHL too, and Savannah, I
think, is one of the mostunderstated wags that deserves
more attention.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
If I could be any wag , it'd be her, because she has.
I mean her husband's the BrownJames, so he's like a goat.
I mean her husband's LeBronJames, so he's like a goat.
He's very well respected.
He's so good, very rich.
That's a big part of the appealof being a wank to be honest,
I'm working on it, I'm doing mybest.
You're doing great honey.
Well, savannah also is justlike she still has the like
(12:38):
benefit or she still gets theprivacy that like a lay person
could have.
Like she's not going to be likeflocked at the grocery store
Not that she'd go to the grocerystore, but like if she did,
she'd still have like an elementof privacy.
Not everyone knows like or cansee her face like everywhere.
And then she still gets to likepursue her passions, but it's
not a requirement and she postsup like she should and she has
(13:03):
an amazing podcast.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I just really love what she's doing for the
community and also she getsinvited to beyonce's birthday
you're doing something right ifyou get invited to beyonce yeah,
savannah's got it made yeah, sohe's married to savannah, but
also in general, I think what wecan respect about lebron is
that he's never had a scandal.
He's always been in thespotlight ever since he was a
(13:25):
kid and even had kind of like anunstable childhood, a lot of
support from the community.
But then as soon as he cameinto the league he was on Sports
Illustrated, being labeled thechosen one and just had so much
scrutiny right.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, it's hard to live up to that.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, but through all of that he got married.
He's been married to one wife,he's had kids.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
He's been present for his kids and he hasn't had like
a cheating scandal exactlythere.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
He's been held to the the standard of perfection and
he's almost measured up, if notmeasured up he goes to bed at
like 7 pm.
Yeah, he gets 12 hours of sleepevery night that's why he's had
the longevity that he's had asan athlete, playing 21 seasons
in the NBA, let alone collegeand high school and all that
kind of stuff.
But, like I said, I leantypically towards MJ and the
(14:17):
debate between stats and justtheir impact on the court in the
moment.
But I think it's been reallyinteresting to start to
visualize the difference betweenthe two players in other
regards.
So to kind of set the scene inthe eighties and nineties.
We have the NBA as home ofnumerous larger than life
figures like magic Johnson,larry bird.
Obviously we already mentionedMichael Jordan.
(14:37):
They excelled on the court.
They also made basketballinroads in global markets.
I think when Michael Jordan wasa player.
That was when I don't rememberthe name of the commissioner,
but there was a new NBAcommissioner that really made a
play to globalize the NBA andplayers like Michael Jordan made
that feel feasible.
After those players retired,the NBA kind of had this moment
(15:00):
where it seemed like it waslacking that same kind of level
of marketable superstars thatcould transcend a niche audience
and reach even internationalgroups.
But that's where LeBron Jamesentered with the Cleveland
Cavaliers in 2003.
So when you're talking aboutstats, you have four
championships for LeBron, yougot six for MJ.
(15:22):
You got 19 all-star gamenominations for LeBron.
14 for MJ.
You got LeBron as an all-timeleading scorer with over 40,000
points in his career over 21seasons.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Stop.
That's stupid 40,000 pointsCompared to MJ's 32,292 in 15
seasons.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Importantly though, LeBron has been name dropped in
188 songs.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
MJ has been mentioned over 400 times in songs.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
You know who's higher than both of them, though.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Who.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Messi, love that your boy, I love Messi.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
He also has an amazing wag.
Yes, his wife is incredible,but go on 100%.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
So I mean I could get into things like LeBron's
contract with Nike.
His initial one was $90 millionover seven years, which was
compared to an offer from Reebokwhich was $118 million over the
same period but he just feltlike it was a better fit with
Nike.
And of course MJ went with Nike.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
And Nike is just like way more of a household name,
especially in basketball.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yeah, and Nike's just like way more of a household
name, especially in basketball.
Yeah, in terms of sports brandNike is the apple of the sports
brands, yeah, and the rest are.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Samsung Quote that LeBron's shoes have generated
$340 million for Nike just inthe last 12 months, which sounds
like a lot, but then you haveMJ and Jordan brand, which
generated $7 billion in thatsame period.
So, there's still room toprogress for LeBron in that
sense.
But on the other hand, LeBronis the only player to become a
(16:56):
billionaire during theiron-court career.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
LeBron's a billionaire.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
He is.
Love that he's the first playerto do it while he's still
playing, whereas Michael Jordanis obviously a billionaire, but
he did it after he retired.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I love that for him and I love that for Savannah.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, but I'm kind of circling the point here,
because what I had kind of setup was the fact that his legacy
is more about his off-the-courtstuff that he's got going on.
So I really think it's hissocial impact and him as a
family man and someone who likeuplifts the people around him
that's going to make his legacystand out.
(17:31):
He's become the face of athleteparticipation in contemporary
social and political discourses.
In contrast, michael Jordanstuck mostly to business
decisions and he's famouslyquoted as saying Republicans buy
shoes too.
When he refused to endorse apolitical candidate or have a
stance in the political sphere,um, which lebron is known for
doing.
He's like he's outspoken abouthis political opinions.
(17:53):
He's he's been reallysupportive of specific movements
along the way.
You look like you're about tosay something no, I'm good keep
going.
I'll keep going.
This is my monologue.
I read an article in theEconomist where Dang Michael,
that's some good research.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
I went down a rabbit trail.
I love this for us.
You know it all starts as aconversation at the barbershop,
but then it really unearths alot of things, and what started
at a barbershop led you to readan article in the Economist.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, and I had finish reading the article.
So I'm on a trial right nowwith the Economist, but they
were talking about a couple ofbooks that kind of compared
Michael Jordan and LeBron Jamesand there was some interesting
comparisons, kind of compoundingoff this political point that I
made, where Michael Jordan wasperceived to to try and
transcend race in the sense thathe didn't want to be defined by
(18:48):
the color of his skin andthat's kind of how he carried
himself.
He wanted to be just perceivedas an athlete, as a person, and
not really he didn't in the wayhe moved, in the way he talked,
he didn't really want hisblackness to be a factor and the
way he talked he didn't reallywant his blackness to be a
(19:08):
factor, whereas LeBron James iskind of the opposite and he is
seen to be trying to use hiscelebrity as a way to give
blackness more prominence.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
That's so interesting because I would imagine that
part of Michael Jordan's pointof view with that specifically
and like how he wanted to be,like his blackness, not be a
part of, like his legacy ordefine his legacy, the
(19:48):
environment and time in which hehad his career which makes me
think that if he had not maybedone what he had done, like it
feels like LeBron could only dowhat he's done because he could
stand on what Michael Jordan hadhad to do, you know yeah, I
don't know if it says much aboutstanding on what Michaelael
jordan did, but I 100 agree thatthey existed in different
moments and environments in theleague and in american culture
(20:12):
and the article talked aboutthat a little bit, because when
michael jordan came in in the80s, that was during president
reagan's time and one of thethings president reagan liked to
talk about was this colorblindsociety where he
Speaker 2 (20:26):
he touted that racial injustice was not really as
much of a thing as it used to be.
And we all know, because wehave history to show us, that
racial injustice was neverabsent in America.
But at the time the success ofblack players in the NBA was
kind of held up as his evidencethat the American dream was for
(20:47):
black people too.
And then you have LeBron James,who came in in the early 2000s
and really reached his peak in asharply different context where
race was again forcing itselfto the front of public discourse
, and he's been active and vocalabout his support of movements
like Black Lives.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Matter and things like that.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
So, all that to be said, there's no rule that says
that stars and athletes need tobe activists, but I do think
it's their positions and theirplatforms, as well as their
business moves, that play a partin the legacy that they leave
behind.
Um, and I think, from what Isome of the research I did in
the reading I did, the off courtachievements that James is most
(21:29):
proud of seems to be the workthat he's doing to uplift the
lives of young people in hishometown of Akron in Ohio, which
he's done a lot.
He has the LeBron James FamilyFoundation, which he started
just a year after he came intothe league, first gained
attention for simple things likegiving away bikes and backpacks
, but then it started intoafterschool programs and then
(21:52):
eventually compounded intostarting an actual public school
called I Promise.
That's currently serving about575 third through eighth graders
.
But the interesting thing is,on top of that, the school
includes a family resourcecenter that provides a wide
range of services to parents,including mental health health,
financial literacy and legal aid, as well as ged courses, so
(22:15):
even helping the studentsparents get their ged and down
the street from the school.
They also have set up rent-freehousing for as many as 16
different families at a timewhen needed and they're
expanding that to be able toprovide 50 units of affordable
housing.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
That is why he's king james like that is just so
beautiful of affordable housing,and that is why he's King James
Like that is just so beautiful.
I also heard that that school islike it's not, it's a special
kind of school where theypre-select people who have test
the lowest in standardizedtesting to bring them to that
school and that itself is likeso beautiful, like knowing and
understanding that people weretesting so low, like there's so
(22:52):
many contributors to that,including family, including
support, including, likeadditional help, like it's just
so cool that he's doing thatyeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
So all that stuff is so interesting and I think, um,
on the brand side, where Jordanwas seen as more of a renegade
in the 90s, james is definitelymore of this commerce-friendly
superstar.
And, getting back to the pointaround the brand of the NBA and
these players' impact, I thinkthey've both definitely really
contributed to the fact that nowthe NBA is in over 200
(23:24):
countries and 40 languagesaround the world.
So, all that to say, the GOATdebate is still pretty
subjective between MJ and LeBron, but I think it's safe to say
that LeBron's off the courtlegacy, especially in the areas
of social impact and bringingthat kind of the globalization
of the NBA forward, isundebatable.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah, and also like the fact that he's done so much
to support his family.
Like the fact that he's done somuch to support his family.
Like you can tell, lebron's afamily man like, not just
because his sons are great atbasketball, but he's been such a
like like he's so tied andglued to his family, his wife
and it's.
I mean, I imagine that forplayers like that I know he's
(24:08):
getting a lot of heat right nowbecause he was really clear and
outspoken about that he's notgoing to retire until he can
play with his son and I thinkthat is just so sweet.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I mean, we love nepotism once in a while.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, we don't love it everywhere, but I'm here for
nepotism in sports, which ishonestly the hardest arena to
have nepotism in, because you'relike an old player if you reach
35.
And so like the fact that he'sstill playing pretty well, but
he's staying so he can play withhis son, like how beautiful is
that.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, and I do think, for what it's worth, bronny
would have made it to the NBAeventually.
But, would he have declaredearly, after just a year at USC
and not that much playing time,and after cardiac arrest, and
would he have gone to the Lakers?
Would he have gone in thesecond round?
That's all speculation at thispoint, but it is a cool
(25:03):
storyline.
It's never happened before.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
I love to see it, and I am rooting for Bronny.
I hope that he ends up justkind of showing the haters that
they're wrong and ends up beinga really solid yeah professional
athlete and not to bring itback to football, but when you
compare other goats, like tombrady, for example, who
basically, like he risked hisfamily for his legacy, lebron is
(25:27):
like risking his legacy for hisfamily and I think that's so
beautiful.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Well said, I like that, um, but speaking of lebron
james, do you see that he wasjust is like risking his legacy
for his family, and I thinkthat's so beautiful, well said,
I like that.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
But speaking of LeBron James, did you see that
he was just named as an honoraryco-chair for the Met Gala?
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I didn't see it because I don't really pay that
much attention to the Met Gala,but I heard it from you.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah, so he, alongside Lewis Hamilton, who's
a Formula One racer, and, Ibelieve, asap rocky pharrell
williams, they're all going tobe co-chairs of this year's met
gala, which will be may 5th, Ibelieve.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
I don't know anything about this, but I saw on social
, I think, yesterday that forthere's a documentary about
pharrell coming out oh, I didn'tsee that.
Yeah, um but yeah, I love tosee it.
I love to see him get hisflowers.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Yeah, it's cool to see it.
I love to see him get hisflowers.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah, and it's cool to see him kind of getting into
other spaces like fashion.
He like carried the torch atthe Olympics for the US team and
now he's in the Met Gala, Idon't know.
It's just cool to see it kindof expanding out from what's
been typical.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, I'm a fan, for sure.
Speaking of sports, though, didyou see?
There was that game, I thinkthe Minnesota Vikings game where
two of their players did acelebration of the parent trap?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I used to know that handshake off by heart.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
That's one of your favorite movies, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, I love that movie.
It's such a good movie.
Lindsay Lohan in her prime, butman.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I just thought it was so cute.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
I thought it was so cute that you see them actually
do that handshake, but then theyalso shared footage of them
practicing that handshake.
And a lot goes into practicinga celebration.
In NFL, at least, people dotake the time to practice their
celebrations.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah, I think it's like a weekly thing that these
athletes do.
They're at practice and then,when practice is over, they're
practicing their celebrationsfor the weekend.
What are we going to cook upthis Sunday if we score?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Which I think is so sweet.
But then I think there was oneseason I think it might have
been last season where the MiamiDolphins just got too overboard
with it and they were justdoing these crazy elaborate like
10 person celebrations, butthey'd still lose the games.
It was just too much.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, they're sort of corny I feel like it's Tyreek
Hill's influence.
Just got corny humor.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Got it, but also big news in my world.
Bravo has announced thatthey're developing a show
centered around the wags of theKansas City Chiefs, and it's
confirmed that Taylor Swift willhave no part of it, which is
not a surprise to anyone.
Same with Brittany.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Mahomes.
Why should she?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, basically she's like she won't be a part of it.
I'm sure she wishes she couldbut she's not going to.
But I'm excited to see the wagsget more attention.
I do feel like they picked thewrong team.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, if there's no taylor swift, then we're gonna
talk about who on the chief'steam is really that interesting
and I feel like they'll stilltalk about taylor swift without
talking about taylor swift yeahand I get it like they're the
big team in the league, likethey're the defending champs or
whatever, but I just wish theywould have done the wags of the
San Francisco 49ers.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Those are my girls, it's there for the taking.
I know we can only hope thatthey're going to do different
teams at different times, kindof like the Real Housewives have
, like different regions orcities.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, you know Totally.
It's kind of like franchisemodel.
What do you know about the RealHousewives?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Just that they have different cities.
That's about it Sweet.
That's about it Sweet, so don'task me too many questions about
that but yeah, and I find itfunny that Brittany Mahomes
isn't going to participate in iteither, and I feel like it's
just because she wants to alignherself with Taylor.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, I mean, if I were her, I wouldn't either.
If my best friend was Taylor ormy best friend could be Taylor.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
But it's interesting, I'm sure it wasn't an easy
decision.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Because she also likes the spotlight.
I could see her being reallygood on reality TV.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
She's kind of like polarizing in the way that she
exists and lives in the world,or what if she's kind of what if
, like her and some of the otherchiefs, wags don't get along?
I'm just creating drama.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
For sure, and that's what's a very necessary part of
a good reality TV show is drama.
True, and that's actually I'mglad you brought that up,
because that's a big reason thatlike holds me back from
pursuing a reality show for usand at least arcade you're
saying that as if, like, there'sa likelihood that we could have
a reality, there's like nochance.
(29:43):
We're not interesting enough.
I know, I know, I know, but saywe were like.
The thing that always holds meup like is that there would have
to be conflict within our team.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
And we just get along too well.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah, it's just too easy to hang out with these
people.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
It's all cake and rainbows.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
No, bravo, show for us yet.
Yet it's got to bring in alittle bit more conflict.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
To be honest, I wouldn't want to do Bravo, To be
clear, if anyone's asking,nobody's asking.
But I would do Netflix.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Okay, clear, if anyone's asking, nobody's asking
, but I would do Netflix.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
okay, it's out there gotta put it out there, um, but
also I, just before we move onfrom NFL, how you doing.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
I'm doing good in your fantasy yeah, I mean we're
it's still early, we're cominginto kind of a third of the way
through the season, but I'mdoing pretty well.
I'm in a lot of leagues, yes,but I think I was a little
worried about it when I startedthe season because I felt like
maybe I'd be stretched too thinmanaging more leagues than is
(30:42):
normal, but I actually feel likeit's caused me to put less
stock in each specific league,so it's ended up causing less
stress unnecessarily, becauseyou shouldn't be stressed about
fantasy sports no, there'sbigger things in life yeah, like
I'm doing pretty well like Ialways tell you, when you're
losing in fantasy, at leastyou're winning in life hey,
(31:03):
that's true, I got youthat's right but yeah, there's
one league that I just finallygot my first win last week I was
I had lost every week beforethat in that one league, but all
of my other leagues I have awinning record and three of them
.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I'm still undefeated okay so well, that was my
obligatory wellness check onMike and his fantasy leagues.
We don't have to do that foranother few weeks, so the
diagnosis is he's thriving.
He's thriving yeah, um, let'smove on to the next big thing.
Um, does everyone really need ahobby?
(31:39):
you tell me so there's a hugetrend on tiktok right now of
like people finding theirhobbies or going on this like
pursuit to find a hobby.
Um, so people are lamenting onhow hard it is also to find a
hobby.
There's actually a video thatwent viral of someone trying
reading coloring painting butnothing kept her interested,
which I think is kind of funny.
Like I'm trying to color andit's just kind of boring.
(32:05):
Like, of course it is, it's notlike a fun thing to do.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
And especially if you're just like trying it for
the first time, like you're notgoing to be good at it, right,
right.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Well, hundreds of people were in her comments
saying that they also felt likeit's so hard to find a hobby and
nothing keeps their interest.
Some people also say that it'shard to find a hobby because it
costs money, it costs time, itcosts energy, investment, and a
(32:34):
lot of people also shared thattheir only interest is really
watching Netflix or scrollingTikTok.
So, and lots of people say thatthey want to find a hobby
because they don't want to saythat Netflix and TikTok are
their hobbies.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's just kind of like it's a
equal equalizer, like everyonewatches Netflix and most people
scroll TikTok.
But I think for most of usthere's probably people that
just have so much validation andenjoyment from watching shows
on Netflix all the time.
But I think for a lot of us,even though we do it because
(33:08):
it's the low-hanging fruit, itof feels not the best like a
little icky, you know like am Igoing to do this every night?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
for the rest of my life.
There's got to be more to life.
This is what I'm lookingforward to the weekend for, you
know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
So I don't know.
It's kind of like drinkingCoca-Cola Like it tastes good,
but I kind of feel bad.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
You know what, though ?
I also don't like when peopleregard or disregard watching TV
because it's like OK, settledown, like you're not solving
the world's problems.
Your pursuits are not that muchgreater than those like those
of us who are just bums on thecouch, like it's not that deep.
You know, sometimes you justneed to like tune into something
(33:48):
else and like switch yourbrains.
Tune in to something else andlike switch your brains.
So I don't really subscribe tolike the fact that like TV is
just so lowbrow that youshouldn't invest time in.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
It has its time and place.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Anything in moderation, as my father would
always say.
Anything in moderation.
Yeah, almost anything.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Well, this reminded me when I was single and talking
to guys, when was?
That Many, many moons ago.
I remember I was with somefriends and we were talking to
these guys and they're clearly,like you know, the outdoorsy
type.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Who were they?
Where are they?
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Not important.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Should I talk to them ?
Speaker 1 (34:26):
No, but basically they were like we were talking
and like you know, whatever, asone does, filling each other out
.
And they're like what do youguys like to do for fun?
And my good friend was likeNetflix and she said it so
proudly and I was like kind ofembarrassed but also like that
is what we do.
And they're like we're likewhat do you guys do for fun?
(34:46):
And they're like oh, we likesunrise camping and like doing
hikes and we like sunrisecamping and like doing hikes and
it was like boring.
So it's just like so funny, likeI'm sure if you're say you're
single and you're going on afirst date like you don't want
to be like oh, all I'd like todo with my free time is like sit
on the couch and watch TV.
So you got to find somethingelse that's a little more
(35:07):
interesting to say.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Yeah, you got to really establish your
positioning.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
But then the good news is for anyone who's single
and feels like that after you dofind someone, you can just
spend time on the couch watchingtv with your partner yeah, and
that's great yeah, althoughsince covid I feel like
programming hasn't been as goodtrue, so which we've talked
about that's also part of thelike icky feeling of doing.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Doing that all the time is like it doesn't feel
like there's enough content,enough high value content to
consume, so you're just you kindof end up lowering your
standards of what you watch orwatching multiple screens at the
same time.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, second screen talked about that well, this is
like just sparked an interestingconversation is because this
pursuit of a hobby, althoughit's's like a noble quest, it
seems like people are doing itwith ulterior motives, when
they're trying to find somethingmore interesting to say about
themselves.
But also it seems like peopleare maybe using hobbies as a way
(36:03):
to avoid being alone or a wayto feel productive.
I feel like a lot of us canrelate to this like need to be
productive at all times whenreally you should just like your
body rest.
But I think for me, this likegot me thinking.
Like for me, having hobbies.
I feel like I've discovered afew new hobbies in the last like
two years and it's been so nicefor me like to have something
(36:29):
else to relate with, like withpeople like I'm.
Like I think that my work andthis stuff takes a lot of my
brain space, but when I can likesit and do like a hobby that
isn't productive, no one needsanything from me.
It's like so nice for me.
It's been really good for me.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, and I think, as you're talking, I'm like it
broadens your perception ofyourself good for me.
Yeah, and I think as you'retalking, I'm like it broadens
your perception of yourself,like when you don't have really
anything to to pinpoint as ahobby outside of having a family
or being married or beingsingle or the work that you do
on a daily basis which takes upmost of your time.
Then inevitably your identityis either your family or your
(37:11):
singleness or the work that youdo, right.
So, being able to add in otherkinds of hobbies or activities,
it just kind of rounds you outand shows you different parts of
yourself and parts of like whoyou are naturally and what you
gravitate towards naturally andhow you overcome problems or
solve things or how you getcreative.
Even last episode you weretalking about um, the event you
(37:34):
went to where you had to be anartist.
You know and how that was likereally challenging, and that's
what's interesting too aboutthat lady you were talking about
who said, like the hobbies shewas trying couldn't hold her
attention, Like yeah, it'schallenging.
It's challenging to develop anew skill or to try something
you haven't done before.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
But yeah, and it takes effort.
Anything new takes effort.
So when I was thinking abouthobbies, I feel like my latest
hobby has been like sourdough.
I've been in a bit of asourdough doing my best over
here.
The best thing about it is likenobody needs anything from me,
like we don't need the sourdoughto survive.
It's just like a bonus.
(38:12):
So I feel like I can just takemy time.
I'm not like rushing to feedhungry kids with my sourdough,
like it's just an extra nice tohave.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Yeah, for sure, and I'm a big sourdough fan.
So I'm here for it, althoughsometimes I feel like you're
pretty ambitious, like there'sthe one Saturday where I think
you made a sourdough and thenyou made pigs in a blanket, and
then you also.
What was the third thing, wasit?
Speaker 1 (38:37):
I made sourdough pigs in a blanket and then I made
tiramisu.
Yeah, so it was like and I madetwo loaves of sourdough.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
It was like I was solo parenting that day and you
were just yeah, I've been on akind of like a hobby discovery
arc, I think also it's been aprocess for me of like yeah,
odyssey is a good word for it.
It's been a process of just alsocoming back to things that I
(39:05):
used to like when I was younger,and not necessarily feeling bad
about what it is I like likegaming, for example.
Like I loved gaming when I wasin high school.
Like what grade nine or 10 boydidn't like playing Halo or Call
of Duty or Madden NFL, you know.
But I didn't play video gamesfor so long.
But then in the last couple ofyears, with your support, I got
(39:28):
into gaming again.
With my permission, I don't doit a lot like once or twice a
week maybe, but I think that'ssomething that feels kind of
juvenile at a surface level.
But it's been a really nice wayfor just my brain to disconnect
from all the things that I'mthinking about with work and
having a family and stuff likethat.
I also got back to reading.
(39:49):
I used to read a lot when I wasyounger Didn't really through
university which we talked abouton a recent episode how
university students in generalaren't reading as much yeah um,
but getting back to reading, butnot any, just any type of
reading, like fiction books andspecifically sci-fi and fantasy,
which again I feel like if Iwas single and like going on
first dates, I would feel weirdabout being like, yeah, yeah, I
(40:11):
love to read fantasy books, youknow.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Which I think there's less of a stigma on that now,
because fantasy is such a likebig genre.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
But still, it gives a person a perception about you.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
But here now, as a person in my mid thirties, with
a beautiful wife that loves meanyway and kids that love me no
matter what, and just like alittle bit of time on my hands
to do with what I will, I enjoythat yeah, let your freak flag
fly fantasy flag fly.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Yeah, the video game journey has been interesting for
us yeah, I think I've been wellbalanced, would you agree?
Speaker 2 (40:46):
yeah, and then I enjoy sports.
I most I more so watch sports,but I also enjoy playing them,
and I think that's one area thatI want to progress in over the
next couple of years is gettingback into more actively playing
sports.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Like a rec league.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Yeah, or even just tennis with my friends, or
pickleball, or whatever.
It might be, golf even.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
We should try pickleball.
We cannot do tennis.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yeah, we've been there, we've tried that.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
It wasn't good for our relationship.
It was really bad.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
It might be good for a reality show, though For
conflict, because we needconflict, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
If you ever see us on a reality show and we're
playing tennis, it's for theplot.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
It's for the plot, yeah 100%, and you're the, your
villain era 100.
I'm just trying to give yousome helpful tips of how to like
keep our rallies going a littlebit longer, and helpful tips
are not suddenly I'm the enemyfrom you.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Thank you very much, um, but this reminded me of our
kids, and I don't know what itis about schools, but they just
like love sending home artprojects literally every single
day.
Every single day, my kids comehome from daycare or school.
They're coming home with thislike handmade, recycled
(42:00):
conglomerate of different piecesof garbage, like it's.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
You know, it's beautiful to see their handiwork
in some cases, but not everyday like it's too much, like
there has to be a limit to theseart projects yeah, and we've
been talking about this of, like, what do we keep versus what do
we not keep, and, as I've beenthinking about it more, I think
the where I'm at with a solutionis, honestly, the stuff they
(42:26):
bring home from school.
We don't need to keep thatbecause it's like a guided
activity.
Often it's like coloring thingsin.
It's nothing original, but Imean, our daughter is an artist
and that stuff isn't art yeahbut like it's the stuff that in
her room on a Saturday when shehas nothing but time and maybe
she's confronted with someboredom and then she gets out a
(42:47):
piece of paper and her markersor her paint and create
something.
It could be for someone, itcould just be for herself.
But I think those are the timeswhere like something really
cool comes out of it art andthat's the stuff that's going on
our fridge or filing away inthe little accordion folder that
we have, you know.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
But yeah, and it's like our son who's two years old
and so so cute, but he comeshome with these like sometimes
they're interesting crafts, likethey're.
The other day he made like alittle turkey, like turkey, and
it was like a um popsicle, likestick, and then it was like
connected to like a perfectcircular construction piece of
(43:28):
paper and then like strips ofdifferent colored construction
papers.
Like he did not cut those clipsof paper like he did not write
his name on that popsicle stick,he did not glue the eyes on
that thing.
Like he's two years old, heliterally did nothing.
This was a craft made from histeacher, given and passed down
to me right, and that's why it'soffensive, because like we do
(43:49):
not need this.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
I'm with you.
I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Anyways.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Rant over.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Yeah, okay, let's move on to the big thing number
three.
So Rachel Carden.
We're big fans of her over here.
She has a great sub stackcalled Lincoln Bio.
You should subscribe if youhaven't already, but she just
released a Q3 brand social trendreport and there's a few things
that I found really interestingin this report.
I wanted to chat with you about.
(44:16):
Yeah, so she talked about abunch of different trends.
They're all like kind of microtrends, what's happening right
now, currently in Q3.
So if you're in social, likeit's a great little guide for
you, also great talking pointsto talk to, like whether it's
talking to your clients or bossor whatever.
It's just like what ishappening in social right now.
What are we seeing?
Um, but she did talk aboutrapid response in social and
(44:40):
basically like, rapid responsemeans like if you see something
as an opportunity, as a socialmedia, like content piece or
something that to just like acton it quickly.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Rapid response it means what it means, yeah it's
kind of like the micro trendthing, where there's like
moments happening and you canparticipate or let it pass yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
So basically, what she's seeing is that a lot of
like bigger brands are spendingmore resources and building in
rapid response teams into their2025 planning, which is so
interesting because it seemslike, as a social media
practitioner, like we've been inthis industry for so long and
we've seen the differentiterations of our field and
(45:22):
platforms come up and likechanges in how you post and what
you post and things like thatbut it seems like it's so
consistent, like if you can actquickly, you'll see the reward,
and I think brands are noticingthat more and more, so they're
dedicating bigger teams to beable to do that.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Yeah, it was really happened with the entrance of
TikTok onto the scene.
Because before that socialmedia was all about original
content and doing something forthe first time or being the
first on the scene right or thefirst to start a conversation,
and then with tiktok it kind offlipped the script where it was
like someone does something andthen everyone else piles on and
(46:01):
it becomes a trend and and thealgorithm favors almost like
repeat content rather than thevirality feedback loop I just
had to present on that.
That's true.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
The other thing that they're noticing is that brands
are starting to hire forcreative directors of social.
I thought this was superinteresting.
So what's happening is it'slike a new job description that
seems to be popping up for a lotof bigger brands.
So they're hiring not just fora creative director, but
specifically a creative directorfor social, which makes perfect
sense to me.
Like, as an agency, we'vealways kind of operated with
(46:35):
that kind of role within ourteam.
So we have a creative director.
We also have an art directorwho's very talented and
brilliant and wonderful, andhe's right next to us right now.
So what's cool is that when youwork with us on, say, your
social accounts or socialprogramming, it's kind of built
into our team, we build it intoour agreements.
But I think what people arestarting to notice is that your
(46:57):
social presence is like the, thefront page or the front door of
your brand, like your brand'srepresentation to the world kind
of exists with your livingsocial media feed, and so you
really need someone to stewardthat brand on a creative front,
because every day there's poststhat go out that you know
include sound, includes colors,includes certain shots, includes
(47:20):
a style of photography, itincludes a tone of voice in the
caption, like all of that isbasically how brand plays out in
real, real time.
So I think people are startingto see that there needs to be a
steward of those creative assets, but also a steward that
understands social.
And we've worked with a lot ofdifferent brands and we've had
(47:40):
moments, you know, when awell-intentioned creative
director gets involved in acampaign that we're running and
it just doesn't quite work ifthey don't understand social.
So you really need these socialpeople to be leading the way
when it comes to creativedirection.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Yeah, I think that's the key point.
There is, like many creativedirectors traditionally haven't
understood this channel and sothere's always a disconnect.
So I think it's a cool nod justto like the the level of
influence that that channel hashas has come to have on brand
and on marketing and advertisingoverall, um, and I love to see
(48:18):
it yeah, I love to see socialget it more resources.
I think brands are also justrecognizing that.
So because, to your point ofhow important social is, it's
not.
You can't expect one person todo it all and to be good at it
all, especially because socialis one of the few, if not the
only channels for a brand whereyou're literally at eye level
(48:39):
with your customers.
Like you're on the ground,you're having the conversations.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
you're having to be transparent, you're having to
solve problems and, like oneintermediate level social media
manager can't do that for a hugebrand no so you need different
people playing different rolesthat all understand the channel
and maybe yeah, and maybe insome instances I really feel
like there's when there's a newcampaign that's coming out where
(49:05):
a big chunk of like a globalbrands marketing budget goes
towards this campaign andsometimes social leads leads it
out.
So why not have someone who'sthinking about it first, like it
just makes sense?
Yeah, um, the other thing thatI thought was really interesting
about this report is they talkabout silence brands.
So basically, what we're seeingis there's a bit of a rise of
(49:29):
an anti-trend movement on TikTok, where users are getting
annoyed at brands for leaninginto a meme, think like very
demure, very mindful, like itwas really fun when it started,
but when, like every like lawfirms are doing very demure,
very mindful, it just got oldfast and it was like this is not
for you, this is for us, likedon't get involved here.
(49:50):
And that's kind of the sentimentthat people have.
They're starting to kind of seethrough the smoke a little bit
more and just reject the brandsthat are trying too hard to get
in on the joke.
So, because TikTok is alsogetting more saturated with
brands, it's another reason whya lot of people or brands are
starting to consider otherplatforms, like YouTube Shorts,
(50:11):
which, according to ZariaParavez, who she's a global
social media manager at Duolingo, big fan of what she's doing
there.
She said that for them atDuolingo they're starting to see
a 300% increase in organicimpressions on YouTube Shorts,
which is like heyday TikTok days, so that's pretty interesting.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Yeah, that's notable.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
Yeah.
So for me, the big takeawaysare, like really considering
organic content, like notcontent that's repurposed from a
meme or what people's arewhat's trending right now.
It's like, what can you make as, like, maybe a series or
something that really causes,like creates entertainment value
for people?
That's original, like skitbased content is really cool,
(50:52):
but there's like so many otherthings you can do.
It just like if anythingrequires a bit more creativity I
love it.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
Yeah, I think, do you find that this one, the silence
brand thing is almost at oddswith the first one?
We talked about the rapidresponse element of social and
how brands are building rapidresponse teams to be like
reactive to these trends no,because I think rapid response
is still incredibly valuable, aslong as you can add value.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
I think it's more so that last one is like don't just
recycle what's alreadyhappening there or try so hard
to insert something that doesn'tmake sense for your brand.
So you need to be a bit morecritical and like, consider,
like that.
This is the movement and thesentiment on TikTok right now.
Tiktok users don't want to seebrands involve themselves in
everything.
But rapid response isinteresting because you can
(51:40):
still see an opportunity and ifyou act quickly, you'll see the
reward when it makes sense foryour brand got it okay.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
So it's almost like the.
The type of rapid response thatresonates is less about just
participating in trends and it'smore about seeing something
that happens and finding a wayfor your brand to be able to
like solve that or yeah, oranswer it or and mobilize a team
to make something unique andinteresting.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
Yeah, like, I think skims does this really well.
They see a moment, like they'reso good at picking like or
creating campaigns around peoplewho are really like of the
moment right now.
Like they did a campaign withthe Bridgerton girl, like with
the last the third season thatjust came out I can't remember
her name right now, but theythey had that go live like so
(52:27):
quickly, like they're just likeso fast, and I think that's more
of what you need is likesomeone who's on the pulse and
identifying opportunities andmoving quickly yeah, it's like
rapid response is how is it howit expresses itself?
Speaker 2 (52:41):
but I think how brands can be set up to succeed
with that is with in, likeproactive efforts, which is like
their ability to understandwhat's happening in the culture
on these channels enough thatit's easy to respond quickly
because you already have thecontext as a team, and that's
(53:02):
something that we've beenworking really hard to do over
the last year, especially withour creative director, alyssa,
and you know we're all reactingquickly, no matter what whether
we understand the context or not.
Just because, that's the natureof the channel.
But the more preparation you doand the more kind of constant
assessment you do ahead of timeprepares you to feel equipped to
(53:25):
react when there's a momentthat's relevant for your brand.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Totally.
That's why Scan Club has beenso good for us too, because it
allows like we are an agencythat's, yes, focused on digital
marketing Social media is a bigpiece of this but you know,
we're only so many people whocan keep up with so many things,
and we have a ton of clientsall in like different niches, so
I think ScanClubs allows us tozoom out even more.
(53:51):
So when things start to happen,it doesn't feel surprising to
us.
You can still do that likerapid response, but in a way
that's like you said, like moreproactive, but also like you're
not so, like Like oh no, likeyou have to completely pivot.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
It's not knee jerky.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
Focus on a direction, because you've seen that
direction coming for a while.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
You anticipated it yeah, and that takes the anxiety
out of how quickly thesechannels move, and these trends
move, so sign up for Scan Club.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Yeah, we haven't talked about it that much so far
.
Speaker 2 (54:24):
We do talk about signals, but in the context of
Scan Club, we have a newsletterand a trend report that you can
take advantage of For sure.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
Well, those are the big things on my radar.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
That was a good one, good episode, I liked it Well.
Make sure you subscribe.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
Thanks for being here .
Speaker 2 (54:38):
Make sure you share it with your friends.
Check us out on Instagram.
We're sharing clips all weekand otherwise.
Thanks for coming.
Have a good day.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
Loved it.
I always forget it's coming.
Like I know it's part of theshow now, but like I still feel,
like I'm surprised that it cameout.
I just think about itconstantly through the whole
episode the whole episode untilI can just like I can't wait to
use the gong.
Smack the gong, yeah, gross.
Oh, I'm ready for my day.
That's nice.
Okay, ready, Michael Looks good.
Welcome to Big Things.
I'm Mitzi.
This is Mike.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
And this is our show where we talk about all the big
things that we're watching inmarketing, social media, pop
culture and sports.
We'll also talk through signalsthat we're seeing that could
influence the future of digitalmarketing.
You can catch the show everyweek on YouTube or anywhere.
You get your podcasts and, ofcourse, you got to tune into
Instagram where we'll be sharingupdates and fun little trending
(00:35):
TikToks and things like thatthroughout the week.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Totally.
And again, if you're a listenerof Waves or Tea for Lunch,
you're going to love this show.
It's a little different fromwhat we were doing before.
You'll see less interviews, butyou'll see more news, pop
culture, signals and trends andwe'll help you zoom out and have
a more proactive approachrather than being stuck in a
reactive mode.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
And you'll get a little bit more of our point of
view and how we see thingsthrough our lens.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Totally yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
If you're new here, we're married.
We have kids.
We're co-founders of a digitalmarketing agency called Arcade.
That takes a lot of our time.
We always say it's our firstchild.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Sometimes our problem child.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, true, we've been working in the digital
marketing space for about 15years we fact-checked that last
episode and we've had the chanceto work on some pretty fun
clients and campaigns, so we'regoing to try and bring some of
that experience into some ofthese conversations.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Today we're going to be talking about a few big
things.
The first one is Dua Lipa brokethe internet with her Diet Coke
drink.
Lebron and Bronny played intheir first NBA game together.
We're going to talk abouthobbies and if everyone actually
needs them, and we're going tobreak down Rachel Carden's Q3
social media trends report andjust pull out some things that
(01:50):
we thought were interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Giddy up.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Yeah, but first did you see that video of Dua Lipa I
?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
did.
I've seen it all over TikTokand all the responses.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Totally so.
If you don't know what I'mtalking about, dua Lipa.
Over the weekend she postedthis video about her Diet Coke
drink and she basically poured acan of Diet Coke into a glass
of ice and then she pouredpickle juice and jalapeno juice.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
As well as like some actual pieces of pickles and
jalapenos.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
That part put me over the edge because I was down to
try, but with actual slices ofpickles I wasn't sure, it's like
a garnish, you know, like youhave a Caesar or a martini.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
There's stuff in there, you know, and just adds
to the experience it reminds meof a Caesar, and I just don't
like Caesars.
Think about it as a martiniwith an olive.
A little different I guess, assoon as you insert pickles into
the conversation, or picklejuice, you have my attention.
I am a big pickle fan,especially garlic dills.
Let's go.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
That is not my vibe.
I'm an olive girly, I lovemartinis, I love olives in
general, so that would be moremy direction.
So maybe this is the best ofboth worlds.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Maybe we need to experiment a bit and figure out
like maybe we end up replacingjalapenos with olives or
something like that, and maybethis will be finally the way
that we replace Coke with DietCoke for you.
Well, I mean, I think wecrossed that bridge recently.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, you said it, but you haven't done it.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, but I've slowly been drinking Diet Coke here
and there, just because you'realways buying it and I think
because of that I've acclimatedto it a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Where before it always tasted kind of gross to
me.
Now it's like I kind of see theappeal.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
No, it's so good I just crave the aspartame.
It's so and like a crispyaspartame diet Coke, like it's
just nothing.
Nothing can beat it.
Also, if it comes from afountain instead of like a
fountain, what is that?
Like a, not an app.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Like a fountain instead of like a fountain.
What is that like?
Speaker 1 (03:45):
not like a fountain coke, yeah if it's like a
fountain diet coke, yeah, over acanned coke or a bottled diet
coke, that is the most elitediet coke so would you rank it
like fountain diet coke, canneddiet coke, then bottled no, it
goes.
Mcdonald's fountain diet cokethen Bottled one liter diet coke
(04:06):
, then every other fountain dietcoke Then can.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Bottle over can.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah, one liter bottle.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I feel like I've always experienced better
beverages From a can than abottle, unless it's a glass
bottle.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
No, I just don't think the can does it for me.
I like the sensory experienceof cracking it open, but the one
liter bottle is where it's at.
Like I don't know somethingabout the one liter bottle, like
over the two liter.
Two liter gets flat too fast.
One liter is like the perfectamount that'll last you a week.
You get two uses out of a oneliter, Exactly yeah, Whereas a
(04:41):
can you're committed tofinishing that thing or dumping
it at the end which, whereas acan you're committed to
finishing that thing or dumpingit at the end, which is not hard
to finish it, but I don't knowsomething about, although a can
does hit in the middle of a workday.
We do have cans of Diet Coke atthe office and it's really nice
to have, but anyways, I thoughtthat today on the show we
should try it.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I'm down, let's do it .
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Yeah, so let's bring in our assistant.
This is our.
It's like the price is rightwhen you know you have those
like assistants.
This is pamela, our socialmedia intern.
They're one of the manywonderful jobs you get to do as
an internet arcade.
Wow, wow, this is amazing,thank you, okay.
So we got our cans of diet coke.
(05:20):
We got our glasses of water.
This, this is.
Which juice is which?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I think this is.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Pickle Jalapeno Taller one's jalapeno Alright.
I'm gonna go easy on the juices, I think.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
I feel like we gotta crack the can in the mic.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Oh, definitely For the.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
ASMR, that was a good can crack.
That was a good can crack yougot to pour yours in the mic,
yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
We might even have to do an ASMR IG post I have done
one for Arcade Really Mm-hmm,can you hear those bubbles?
It's a crispy one.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
All right, are we putting juice in here?
Speaker 1 (06:13):
I'm all for this right now, but the juice is like
oh, you got to get the juice in.
Okay, I can do it.
This looks so gross.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Oh, it smells good.
I can smell the pickles.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yuck, I am not.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
And the garnish.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Not a pickle girly.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I'm only doing one jalapeno.
I'm a lightweight.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I don't want any jalapeno, I'm just doing pickles
.
Alright Gross, I don't haveanything to stir with.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So it's just gonna be my finger.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Oh, you're stirring.
I am not going to do that.
No, thank you.
Should we cheers?
Salute alright, let's see here.
Do you want to go first?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
on the count of three .
Okay, one, two, three.
That is strange.
I was like really prepared tolove it.
To be honest, no, I just.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Maybe I do need to stir it yeah, I feel like you.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Just you mostly lose the diet coke flavor and just
you taste savory, which I don'tmind, but it's also like not
truly pickle juice flavor, it'snot truly jalapeno, so it just
seems like they all kind ofcancel each other out yeah, I
don't think this is for me tellme more.
(07:42):
What are you experiencing?
What's the flavor profile?
It?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
it tastes like oh, thank you.
It tastes like.
I think some people might likeit.
It kind of tastes like ahamburger tastes like a salty
diet coke.
That's honestly all that it iswell, no, every time I take
another sip thinking it might bebetter.
It's confusing to me because Istill kind of get the Diet Coke,
(08:09):
which makes I feel like mybody's programmed to get another
sip, but it's just not givingme what I need.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
You're getting the sugar and your body's response
is like let's have more, butyour tongue is like what the
hell?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
No, I don't like it.
And the pickle like the thingis, I can like smell the pickle
juice before I drink it.
You know, smell is a big partof taste.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
You're just offending yourself.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, it's like what am I thinking?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Sipping a Diet Coke, smelling a pickle.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yeah, my take is just stick to the classic.
Like I could see Dua Lipa beinginto this drink, though.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It's like unique and different.
What is it about Dua Lipa thatyou would say that I?
Speaker 1 (08:50):
just feel like she's an artist and she like artists,
like need to be, like differentand unique, and I appreciate
that about her.
I love her.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
What was the desired outcome for trying this in the
first place?
Like, was there like a healthbenefit that caused her to try
something like this?
Like?
A mix of sugar and like highsodium or something like that.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
It's just for the vibes, it's just for fun.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
But who just comes up with that out of thin air?
Speaker 1 (09:17):
You know artists.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Party one night.
You're kind of tipsy.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
It does kind of taste like a hamburger.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
No one is mixing these things and saying,
hopefully it tastes like ahamburger.
So I'm just trying to figureout where it came from.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
But I think maybe it was a dare.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
It's got to be a dare .
Speaker 1 (09:33):
No, it seems like it's like her drink.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
It's become that, but how did it start?
That's what I'm trying to getto.
Anyways, we don't have theanswers.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I wonder if it would be better if it was shaken like
a martini.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
You'd lose the fizz, Like the.
What's the word Carbonation?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yuck.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I don't know, I'll stick to Diet Coke or just
pickles.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
I kind of just want a straight up Diet Coke.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Sip from the can.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Oof, I mean in the hierarchy of best Diet Cokes.
That's last Straight up from acan.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
All right, let's just leave it and get into thing two
.
How about that?
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Okay, sounds good.
I think they need to clear it,though.
Maybe just the tequila in thatrank Diet Coke.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Yeah, I was expecting more.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Yeah, I was hoping it would be good.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Well, now that we've had a hamburger and a cup, let's
get into thing two.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
LeBron and Bronny playing their first NBA game
together.
It was preseason we still gotthe regular season coming in hot
but it was an iconic moment and, honestly, this really got me
thinking.
It all started after this gamehappened with a haircut, which,
honestly, the best stories startwith a haircut especially for
you.
You're a haircut guy yeah, I'vealways said you're only as good
(10:52):
as your last haircut and I standby that statement.
No one can refute it.
But I was getting a haircut ontuesday and I was chatting with
richard from goat shop shout outto the Goat Shop, that's the
best place to get your hair cutbut we were talking about the
fact that they were playingtogether and also just that
(11:13):
everlasting, never-ending LeBronversus Michael Jordan debate,
and I think that that debateprimarily circles around their
performance on the court andtheir stats, and when that's the
case, I admittedly lean moretowards Michael Jordan.
But what we got talking aboutas I was getting my haircut was
(11:37):
more so the legacy of theplayers and what their impact
was outside of the game itself,but also with their family and
social impact and the brandimpact of the NBA when they were
players.
So I wanted to just talk aboutthat a little bit.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, let's do it Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
So, first off, I know that you're a fan of Savannah.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
I love Savannah.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
We've talked about wags on this show, more so in
the NFL context, but wags areeverywhere.
They're in the NBA, they're inthe NHL too, and Savannah, I
think, is one of the mostunderstated wags that deserves
more attention.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
If I could be any wag , it'd be her, because she has.
I mean her husband's the BrownJames, so he's like a goat.
I mean her husband's LeBronJames, so he's like a goat.
He's very well respected.
He's so good, very rich.
That's a big part of the appealof being a wank to be honest,
I'm working on it, I'm doing mybest.
You're doing great honey.
Well, savannah also is justlike she still has the like
(12:38):
benefit or she still gets theprivacy that like a lay person
could have.
Like she's not going to be likeflocked at the grocery store
Not that she'd go to the grocerystore, but like if she did,
she'd still have like an elementof privacy.
Not everyone knows like or cansee her face like everywhere.
And then she still gets to likepursue her passions, but it's
not a requirement and she postsup like she should and she has
(13:03):
an amazing podcast.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I just really love what she's doing for the
community and also she getsinvited to beyonce's birthday
you're doing something right ifyou get invited to beyonce yeah,
savannah's got it made yeah, sohe's married to savannah, but
also in general, I think what wecan respect about lebron is
that he's never had a scandal.
He's always been in thespotlight ever since he was a
(13:25):
kid and even had kind of like anunstable childhood, a lot of
support from the community.
But then as soon as he cameinto the league he was on Sports
Illustrated, being labeled thechosen one and just had so much
scrutiny right.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Yeah, it's hard to live up to that.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, but through all of that he got married.
He's been married to one wife,he's had kids.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
He's been present for his kids and he hasn't had like
a cheating scandal exactlythere.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
He's been held to the the standard of perfection and
he's almost measured up, if notmeasured up he goes to bed at
like 7 pm.
Yeah, he gets 12 hours of sleepevery night that's why he's had
the longevity that he's had asan athlete, playing 21 seasons
in the NBA, let alone collegeand high school and all that
kind of stuff.
But, like I said, I leantypically towards MJ and the
(14:17):
debate between stats and justtheir impact on the court in the
moment.
But I think it's been reallyinteresting to start to
visualize the difference betweenthe two players in other
regards.
So to kind of set the scene inthe eighties and nineties.
We have the NBA as home ofnumerous larger than life
figures like magic Johnson,larry bird.
Obviously we already mentionedMichael Jordan.
(14:37):
They excelled on the court.
They also made basketballinroads in global markets.
I think when Michael Jordan wasa player.
That was when I don't rememberthe name of the commissioner,
but there was a new NBAcommissioner that really made a
play to globalize the NBA andplayers like Michael Jordan made
that feel feasible.
After those players retired,the NBA kind of had this moment
(15:00):
where it seemed like it waslacking that same kind of level
of marketable superstars thatcould transcend a niche audience
and reach even internationalgroups.
But that's where LeBron Jamesentered with the Cleveland
Cavaliers in 2003.
So when you're talking aboutstats, you have four
championships for LeBron, yougot six for MJ.
(15:22):
You got 19 all-star gamenominations for LeBron.
14 for MJ.
You got LeBron as an all-timeleading scorer with over 40,000
points in his career over 21seasons.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Stop.
That's stupid 40,000 pointsCompared to MJ's 32,292 in 15
seasons.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Importantly though, LeBron has been name dropped in
188 songs.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
MJ has been mentioned over 400 times in songs.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
You know who's higher than both of them, though.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Who.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Messi, love that your boy, I love Messi.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
He also has an amazing wag.
Yes, his wife is incredible,but go on 100%.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
So I mean I could get into things like LeBron's
contract with Nike.
His initial one was $90 millionover seven years, which was
compared to an offer from Reebokwhich was $118 million over the
same period but he just feltlike it was a better fit with
Nike.
And of course MJ went with Nike.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
And Nike is just like way more of a household name,
especially in basketball.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yeah, and Nike's just like way more of a household
name, especially in basketball.
Yeah, in terms of sports brandNike is the apple of the sports
brands, yeah, and the rest are.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Samsung Quote that LeBron's shoes have generated
$340 million for Nike just inthe last 12 months, which sounds
like a lot, but then you haveMJ and Jordan brand, which
generated $7 billion in thatsame period.
So, there's still room toprogress for LeBron in that
sense.
But on the other hand, LeBronis the only player to become a
(16:56):
billionaire during theiron-court career.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
LeBron's a billionaire.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
He is.
Love that he's the first playerto do it while he's still
playing, whereas Michael Jordanis obviously a billionaire, but
he did it after he retired.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
I love that for him and I love that for Savannah.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, but I'm kind of circling the point here,
because what I had kind of setup was the fact that his legacy
is more about his off-the-courtstuff that he's got going on.
So I really think it's hissocial impact and him as a
family man and someone who likeuplifts the people around him
that's going to make his legacystand out.
(17:31):
He's become the face of athleteparticipation in contemporary
social and political discourses.
In contrast, michael Jordanstuck mostly to business
decisions and he's famouslyquoted as saying Republicans buy
shoes too.
When he refused to endorse apolitical candidate or have a
stance in the political sphere,um, which lebron is known for
doing.
He's like he's outspoken abouthis political opinions.
(17:53):
He's he's been reallysupportive of specific movements
along the way.
You look like you're about tosay something no, I'm good keep
going.
I'll keep going.
This is my monologue.
I read an article in theEconomist where Dang Michael,
that's some good research.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
I went down a rabbit trail.
I love this for us.
You know it all starts as aconversation at the barbershop,
but then it really unearths alot of things, and what started
at a barbershop led you to readan article in the Economist.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, and I had finish reading the article.
So I'm on a trial right nowwith the Economist, but they
were talking about a couple ofbooks that kind of compared
Michael Jordan and LeBron Jamesand there was some interesting
comparisons, kind of compoundingoff this political point that I
made, where Michael Jordan wasperceived to to try and
transcend race in the sense thathe didn't want to be defined by
(18:48):
the color of his skin andthat's kind of how he carried
himself.
He wanted to be just perceivedas an athlete, as a person, and
not really he didn't in the wayhe moved, in the way he talked,
he didn't really want hisblackness to be a factor and the
way he talked he didn't reallywant his blackness to be a
(19:08):
factor, whereas LeBron James iskind of the opposite and he is
seen to be trying to use hiscelebrity as a way to give
blackness more prominence.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
That's so interesting because I would imagine that
part of Michael Jordan's pointof view with that specifically
and like how he wanted to be,like his blackness, not be a
part of, like his legacy ordefine his legacy, the
(19:48):
environment and time in which hehad his career which makes me
think that if he had not maybedone what he had done, like it
feels like LeBron could only dowhat he's done because he could
stand on what Michael Jordan hadhad to do, you know yeah, I
don't know if it says much aboutstanding on what Michaelael
jordan did, but I 100 agree thatthey existed in different
moments and environments in theleague and in american culture
(20:12):
and the article talked aboutthat a little bit, because when
michael jordan came in in the80s, that was during president
reagan's time and one of thethings president reagan liked to
talk about was this colorblindsociety where he
Speaker 2 (20:26):
he touted that racial injustice was not really as
much of a thing as it used to be.
And we all know, because wehave history to show us, that
racial injustice was neverabsent in America.
But at the time the success ofblack players in the NBA was
kind of held up as his evidencethat the American dream was for
(20:47):
black people too.
And then you have LeBron James,who came in in the early 2000s
and really reached his peak in asharply different context where
race was again forcing itselfto the front of public discourse
, and he's been active and vocalabout his support of movements
like Black Lives.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Matter and things like that.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
So, all that to be said, there's no rule that says
that stars and athletes need tobe activists, but I do think
it's their positions and theirplatforms, as well as their
business moves, that play a partin the legacy that they leave
behind.
Um, and I think, from what Isome of the research I did in
the reading I did, the off courtachievements that James is most
(21:29):
proud of seems to be the workthat he's doing to uplift the
lives of young people in hishometown of Akron in Ohio, which
he's done a lot.
He has the LeBron James FamilyFoundation, which he started
just a year after he came intothe league, first gained
attention for simple things likegiving away bikes and backpacks
, but then it started intoafterschool programs and then
(21:52):
eventually compounded intostarting an actual public school
called I Promise.
That's currently serving about575 third through eighth graders
.
But the interesting thing is,on top of that, the school
includes a family resourcecenter that provides a wide
range of services to parents,including mental health health,
financial literacy and legal aid, as well as ged courses, so
(22:15):
even helping the studentsparents get their ged and down
the street from the school.
They also have set up rent-freehousing for as many as 16
different families at a timewhen needed and they're
expanding that to be able toprovide 50 units of affordable
housing.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
That is why he's king james like that is just so
beautiful of affordable housing,and that is why he's King James
Like that is just so beautiful.
I also heard that that school islike it's not, it's a special
kind of school where theypre-select people who have test
the lowest in standardizedtesting to bring them to that
school and that itself is likeso beautiful, like knowing and
understanding that people weretesting so low, like there's so
(22:52):
many contributors to that,including family, including
support, including, likeadditional help, like it's just
so cool that he's doing thatyeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
So all that stuff is so interesting and I think, um,
on the brand side, where Jordanwas seen as more of a renegade
in the 90s, james is definitelymore of this commerce-friendly
superstar.
And, getting back to the pointaround the brand of the NBA and
these players' impact, I thinkthey've both definitely really
contributed to the fact that nowthe NBA is in over 200
(23:24):
countries and 40 languagesaround the world.
So, all that to say, the GOATdebate is still pretty
subjective between MJ and LeBron, but I think it's safe to say
that LeBron's off the courtlegacy, especially in the areas
of social impact and bringingthat kind of the globalization
of the NBA forward, isundebatable.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah, and also like the fact that he's done so much
to support his family.
Like the fact that he's done somuch to support his family.
Like you can tell, lebron's afamily man like, not just
because his sons are great atbasketball, but he's been such a
like like he's so tied andglued to his family, his wife
and it's.
I mean, I imagine that forplayers like that I know he's
(24:08):
getting a lot of heat right nowbecause he was really clear and
outspoken about that he's notgoing to retire until he can
play with his son and I thinkthat is just so sweet.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I mean, we love nepotism once in a while.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, we don't love it everywhere, but I'm here for
nepotism in sports, which ishonestly the hardest arena to
have nepotism in, because you'relike an old player if you reach
35.
And so like the fact that he'sstill playing pretty well, but
he's staying so he can play withhis son, like how beautiful is
that.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Yeah, and I do think, for what it's worth, bronny
would have made it to the NBAeventually.
But, would he have declaredearly, after just a year at USC
and not that much playing time,and after cardiac arrest, and
would he have gone to the Lakers?
Would he have gone in thesecond round?
That's all speculation at thispoint, but it is a cool
(25:03):
storyline.
It's never happened before.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
I love to see it, and I am rooting for Bronny.
I hope that he ends up justkind of showing the haters that
they're wrong and ends up beinga really solid yeah professional
athlete and not to bring itback to football, but when you
compare other goats, like tombrady, for example, who
basically, like he risked hisfamily for his legacy, lebron is
(25:27):
like risking his legacy for hisfamily and I think that's so
beautiful.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Well said, I like that, um, but speaking of lebron
james, do you see that he wasjust is like risking his legacy
for his family, and I thinkthat's so beautiful, well said,
I like that.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
But speaking of LeBron James, did you see that
he was just named as an honoraryco-chair for the Met Gala?
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I didn't see it because I don't really pay that
much attention to the Met Gala,but I heard it from you.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah, so he, alongside Lewis Hamilton, who's
a Formula One racer, and, Ibelieve, asap rocky pharrell
williams, they're all going tobe co-chairs of this year's met
gala, which will be may 5th, Ibelieve.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
I don't know anything about this, but I saw on social
, I think, yesterday that forthere's a documentary about
pharrell coming out oh, I didn'tsee that.
Yeah, um but yeah, I love tosee it.
I love to see him get hisflowers.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Yeah, it's cool to see it.
I love to see him get hisflowers.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah, and it's cool to see him kind of getting into
other spaces like fashion.
He like carried the torch atthe Olympics for the US team and
now he's in the Met Gala, Idon't know.
It's just cool to see it kindof expanding out from what's
been typical.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, I'm a fan, for sure.
Speaking of sports, though, didyou see?
There was that game, I thinkthe Minnesota Vikings game where
two of their players did acelebration of the parent trap?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I used to know that handshake off by heart.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
That's one of your favorite movies, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, I love that movie.
It's such a good movie.
Lindsay Lohan in her prime, butman.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I just thought it was so cute.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
I thought it was so cute that you see them actually
do that handshake, but then theyalso shared footage of them
practicing that handshake.
And a lot goes into practicinga celebration.
In NFL, at least, people dotake the time to practice their
celebrations.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah, I think it's like a weekly thing that these
athletes do.
They're at practice and then,when practice is over, they're
practicing their celebrationsfor the weekend.
What are we going to cook upthis Sunday if we score?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Which I think is so sweet.
But then I think there was oneseason I think it might have
been last season where the MiamiDolphins just got too overboard
with it and they were justdoing these crazy elaborate like
10 person celebrations, butthey'd still lose the games.
It was just too much.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, they're sort of corny I feel like it's Tyreek
Hill's influence.
Just got corny humor.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Got it, but also big news in my world.
Bravo has announced thatthey're developing a show
centered around the wags of theKansas City Chiefs, and it's
confirmed that Taylor Swift willhave no part of it, which is
not a surprise to anyone.
Same with Brittany.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Mahomes.
Why should she?
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, basically she's like she won't be a part of it.
I'm sure she wishes she couldbut she's not going to.
But I'm excited to see the wagsget more attention.
I do feel like they picked thewrong team.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, if there's no taylor swift, then we're gonna
talk about who on the chief'steam is really that interesting
and I feel like they'll stilltalk about taylor swift without
talking about taylor swift yeahand I get it like they're the
big team in the league, likethey're the defending champs or
whatever, but I just wish theywould have done the wags of the
San Francisco 49ers.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Those are my girls, it's there for the taking.
I know we can only hope thatthey're going to do different
teams at different times, kindof like the Real Housewives have
, like different regions orcities.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, you know Totally.
It's kind of like franchisemodel.
What do you know about the RealHousewives?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Just that they have different cities.
That's about it Sweet.
That's about it Sweet, so don'task me too many questions about
that but yeah, and I find itfunny that Brittany Mahomes
isn't going to participate in iteither, and I feel like it's
just because she wants to alignherself with Taylor.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, I mean, if I were her, I wouldn't either.
If my best friend was Taylor ormy best friend could be Taylor.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
But it's interesting, I'm sure it wasn't an easy
decision.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Because she also likes the spotlight.
I could see her being reallygood on reality TV.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
She's kind of like polarizing in the way that she
exists and lives in the world,or what if she's kind of what if
, like her and some of the otherchiefs, wags don't get along?
I'm just creating drama.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
For sure, and that's what's a very necessary part of
a good reality TV show is drama.
True, and that's actually I'mglad you brought that up,
because that's a big reason thatlike holds me back from
pursuing a reality show for usand at least arcade you're
saying that as if, like, there'sa likelihood that we could have
a reality, there's like nochance.
(29:43):
We're not interesting enough.
I know, I know, I know, but saywe were like.
The thing that always holds meup like is that there would have
to be conflict within our team.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
And we just get along too well.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah, it's just too easy to hang out with these
people.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
It's all cake and rainbows.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
No, bravo, show for us yet.
Yet it's got to bring in alittle bit more conflict.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
To be honest, I wouldn't want to do Bravo, To be
clear, if anyone's asking,nobody's asking.
But I would do Netflix.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
Okay, clear, if anyone's asking, nobody's asking
, but I would do Netflix.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
okay, it's out there gotta put it out there, um, but
also I, just before we move onfrom NFL, how you doing.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
I'm doing good in your fantasy yeah, I mean we're
it's still early, we're cominginto kind of a third of the way
through the season, but I'mdoing pretty well.
I'm in a lot of leagues, yes,but I think I was a little
worried about it when I startedthe season because I felt like
maybe I'd be stretched too thinmanaging more leagues than is
(30:42):
normal, but I actually feel likeit's caused me to put less
stock in each specific league,so it's ended up causing less
stress unnecessarily, becauseyou shouldn't be stressed about
fantasy sports no, there'sbigger things in life yeah, like
I'm doing pretty well like Ialways tell you, when you're
losing in fantasy, at leastyou're winning in life hey,
(31:03):
that's true, I got youthat's right but yeah, there's
one league that I just finallygot my first win last week I was
I had lost every week beforethat in that one league, but all
of my other leagues I have awinning record and three of them
.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I'm still undefeated okay so well, that was my
obligatory wellness check onMike and his fantasy leagues.
We don't have to do that foranother few weeks, so the
diagnosis is he's thriving.
He's thriving yeah, um, let'smove on to the next big thing.
Um, does everyone really need ahobby?
(31:39):
you tell me so there's a hugetrend on tiktok right now of
like people finding theirhobbies or going on this like
pursuit to find a hobby.
Um, so people are lamenting onhow hard it is also to find a
hobby.
There's actually a video thatwent viral of someone trying
reading coloring painting butnothing kept her interested,
which I think is kind of funny.
Like I'm trying to color andit's just kind of boring.
(32:05):
Like, of course it is, it's notlike a fun thing to do.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
And especially if you're just like trying it for
the first time, like you're notgoing to be good at it, right,
right.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Well, hundreds of people were in her comments
saying that they also felt likeit's so hard to find a hobby and
nothing keeps their interest.
Some people also say that it'shard to find a hobby because it
costs money, it costs time, itcosts energy, investment, and a
(32:34):
lot of people also shared thattheir only interest is really
watching Netflix or scrollingTikTok.
So, and lots of people say thatthey want to find a hobby
because they don't want to saythat Netflix and TikTok are
their hobbies.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's just kind of like it's a
equal equalizer, like everyonewatches Netflix and most people
scroll TikTok.
But I think for most of usthere's probably people that
just have so much validation andenjoyment from watching shows
on Netflix all the time.
But I think for a lot of us,even though we do it because
(33:08):
it's the low-hanging fruit, itof feels not the best like a
little icky, you know like am Igoing to do this every night?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
for the rest of my life.
There's got to be more to life.
This is what I'm lookingforward to the weekend for, you
know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
So I don't know.
It's kind of like drinkingCoca-Cola Like it tastes good,
but I kind of feel bad.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
You know what, though ?
I also don't like when peopleregard or disregard watching TV
because it's like OK, settledown, like you're not solving
the world's problems.
Your pursuits are not that muchgreater than those like those
of us who are just bums on thecouch, like it's not that deep.
You know, sometimes you justneed to like tune into something
(33:48):
else and like switch yourbrains.
Tune in to something else andlike switch your brains.
So I don't really subscribe tolike the fact that like TV is
just so lowbrow that youshouldn't invest time in.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
It has its time and place.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Anything in moderation, as my father would
always say.
Anything in moderation.
Yeah, almost anything.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Well, this reminded me when I was single and talking
to guys, when was?
That Many, many moons ago.
I remember I was with somefriends and we were talking to
these guys and they're clearly,like you know, the outdoorsy
type.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Who were they?
Where are they?
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Not important.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Should I talk to them ?
Speaker 1 (34:26):
No, but basically they were like we were talking
and like you know, whatever, asone does, filling each other out
.
And they're like what do youguys like to do for fun?
And my good friend was likeNetflix and she said it so
proudly and I was like kind ofembarrassed but also like that
is what we do.
And they're like we're likewhat do you guys do for fun?
(34:46):
And they're like oh, we likesunrise camping and like doing
hikes and we like sunrisecamping and like doing hikes and
it was like boring.
So it's just like so funny, likeI'm sure if you're say you're
single and you're going on afirst date like you don't want
to be like oh, all I'd like todo with my free time is like sit
on the couch and watch TV.
So you got to find somethingelse that's a little more
(35:07):
interesting to say.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Yeah, you got to really establish your
positioning.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
But then the good news is for anyone who's single
and feels like that after you dofind someone, you can just
spend time on the couch watchingtv with your partner yeah, and
that's great yeah, althoughsince covid I feel like
programming hasn't been as goodtrue, so which we've talked
about that's also part of thelike icky feeling of doing.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
Doing that all the time is like it doesn't feel
like there's enough content,enough high value content to
consume, so you're just you kindof end up lowering your
standards of what you watch orwatching multiple screens at the
same time.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, second screen talked about that well, this is
like just sparked an interestingconversation is because this
pursuit of a hobby, althoughit's's like a noble quest, it
seems like people are doing itwith ulterior motives, when
they're trying to find somethingmore interesting to say about
themselves.
But also it seems like peopleare maybe using hobbies as a way
(36:03):
to avoid being alone or a wayto feel productive.
I feel like a lot of us canrelate to this like need to be
productive at all times whenreally you should just like your
body rest.
But I think for me, this likegot me thinking.
Like for me, having hobbies.
I feel like I've discovered afew new hobbies in the last like
two years and it's been so nicefor me like to have something
(36:29):
else to relate with, like withpeople like I'm.
Like I think that my work andthis stuff takes a lot of my
brain space, but when I can likesit and do like a hobby that
isn't productive, no one needsanything from me.
It's like so nice for me.
It's been really good for me.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yeah, and I think, as you're talking, I'm like it
broadens your perception ofyourself good for me.
Yeah, and I think as you'retalking, I'm like it broadens
your perception of yourself,like when you don't have really
anything to to pinpoint as ahobby outside of having a family
or being married or beingsingle or the work that you do
on a daily basis which takes upmost of your time.
Then inevitably your identityis either your family or your
(37:11):
singleness or the work that youdo, right.
So, being able to add in otherkinds of hobbies or activities,
it just kind of rounds you outand shows you different parts of
yourself and parts of like whoyou are naturally and what you
gravitate towards naturally andhow you overcome problems or
solve things or how you getcreative.
Even last episode you weretalking about um, the event you
(37:34):
went to where you had to be anartist.
You know and how that was likereally challenging, and that's
what's interesting too aboutthat lady you were talking about
who said, like the hobbies shewas trying couldn't hold her
attention, Like yeah, it'schallenging.
It's challenging to develop anew skill or to try something
you haven't done before.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
But yeah, and it takes effort.
Anything new takes effort.
So when I was thinking abouthobbies, I feel like my latest
hobby has been like sourdough.
I've been in a bit of asourdough doing my best over
here.
The best thing about it is likenobody needs anything from me,
like we don't need the sourdoughto survive.
It's just like a bonus.
(38:12):
So I feel like I can just takemy time.
I'm not like rushing to feedhungry kids with my sourdough,
like it's just an extra nice tohave.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Yeah, for sure, and I'm a big sourdough fan.
So I'm here for it, althoughsometimes I feel like you're
pretty ambitious, like there'sthe one Saturday where I think
you made a sourdough and thenyou made pigs in a blanket, and
then you also.
What was the third thing, wasit?
Speaker 1 (38:37):
I made sourdough pigs in a blanket and then I made
tiramisu.
Yeah, so it was like and I madetwo loaves of sourdough.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
It was like I was solo parenting that day and you
were just yeah, I've been on akind of like a hobby discovery
arc, I think also it's been aprocess for me of like yeah,
odyssey is a good word for it.
It's been a process of just alsocoming back to things that I
(39:05):
used to like when I was younger,and not necessarily feeling bad
about what it is I like likegaming, for example.
Like I loved gaming when I wasin high school.
Like what grade nine or 10 boydidn't like playing Halo or Call
of Duty or Madden NFL, you know.
But I didn't play video gamesfor so long.
But then in the last couple ofyears, with your support, I got
(39:28):
into gaming again.
With my permission, I don't doit a lot like once or twice a
week maybe, but I think that'ssomething that feels kind of
juvenile at a surface level.
But it's been a really nice wayfor just my brain to disconnect
from all the things that I'mthinking about with work and
having a family and stuff likethat.
I also got back to reading.
(39:49):
I used to read a lot when I wasyounger Didn't really through
university which we talked abouton a recent episode how
university students in generalaren't reading as much yeah um,
but getting back to reading, butnot any, just any type of
reading, like fiction books andspecifically sci-fi and fantasy,
which again I feel like if Iwas single and like going on
first dates, I would feel weirdabout being like, yeah, yeah, I
(40:11):
love to read fantasy books, youknow.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Which I think there's less of a stigma on that now,
because fantasy is such a likebig genre.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
But still, it gives a person a perception about you.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
But here now, as a person in my mid thirties, with
a beautiful wife that loves meanyway and kids that love me no
matter what, and just like alittle bit of time on my hands
to do with what I will, I enjoythat yeah, let your freak flag
fly fantasy flag fly.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
Yeah, the video game journey has been interesting for
us yeah, I think I've been wellbalanced, would you agree?
Speaker 2 (40:46):
yeah, and then I enjoy sports.
I most I more so watch sports,but I also enjoy playing them,
and I think that's one area thatI want to progress in over the
next couple of years is gettingback into more actively playing
sports.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Like a rec league.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Yeah, or even just tennis with my friends, or
pickleball, or whatever.
It might be, golf even.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
We should try pickleball.
We cannot do tennis.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yeah, we've been there, we've tried that.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
It wasn't good for our relationship.
It was really bad.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
It might be good for a reality show, though For
conflict, because we needconflict, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
If you ever see us on a reality show and we're
playing tennis, it's for theplot.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
It's for the plot, yeah 100%, and you're the, your
villain era 100.
I'm just trying to give yousome helpful tips of how to like
keep our rallies going a littlebit longer, and helpful tips
are not suddenly I'm the enemyfrom you.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Thank you very much, um, but this reminded me of our
kids, and I don't know what itis about schools, but they just
like love sending home artprojects literally every single
day.
Every single day, my kids comehome from daycare or school.
They're coming home with thislike handmade, recycled
(42:00):
conglomerate of different piecesof garbage, like it's.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
You know, it's beautiful to see their handiwork
in some cases, but not everyday like it's too much, like
there has to be a limit to theseart projects yeah, and we've
been talking about this of, like, what do we keep versus what do
we not keep, and, as I've beenthinking about it more, I think
the where I'm at with a solutionis, honestly, the stuff they
(42:26):
bring home from school.
We don't need to keep thatbecause it's like a guided
activity.
Often it's like coloring thingsin.
It's nothing original, but Imean, our daughter is an artist
and that stuff isn't art yeahbut like it's the stuff that in
her room on a Saturday when shehas nothing but time and maybe
she's confronted with someboredom and then she gets out a
(42:47):
piece of paper and her markersor her paint and create
something.
It could be for someone, itcould just be for herself.
But I think those are the timeswhere like something really
cool comes out of it art andthat's the stuff that's going on
our fridge or filing away inthe little accordion folder that
we have, you know.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
But yeah, and it's like our son who's two years old
and so so cute, but he comeshome with these like sometimes
they're interesting crafts, likethey're.
The other day he made like alittle turkey, like turkey, and
it was like a um popsicle, likestick, and then it was like
connected to like a perfectcircular construction piece of
(43:28):
paper and then like strips ofdifferent colored construction
papers.
Like he did not cut those clipsof paper like he did not write
his name on that popsicle stick,he did not glue the eyes on
that thing.
Like he's two years old, heliterally did nothing.
This was a craft made from histeacher, given and passed down
to me right, and that's why it'soffensive, because like we do
(43:49):
not need this.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
I'm with you.
I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Anyways.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
Rant over.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Yeah, okay, let's move on to the big thing number
three.
So Rachel Carden.
We're big fans of her over here.
She has a great sub stackcalled Lincoln Bio.
You should subscribe if youhaven't already, but she just
released a Q3 brand social trendreport and there's a few things
that I found really interestingin this report.
I wanted to chat with you about.
(44:16):
Yeah, so she talked about abunch of different trends.
They're all like kind of microtrends, what's happening right
now, currently in Q3.
So if you're in social, likeit's a great little guide for
you, also great talking pointsto talk to, like whether it's
talking to your clients or bossor whatever.
It's just like what ishappening in social right now.
What are we seeing?
Um, but she did talk aboutrapid response in social and
(44:40):
basically like, rapid responsemeans like if you see something
as an opportunity, as a socialmedia, like content piece or
something that to just like acton it quickly.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Rapid response it means what it means, yeah it's
kind of like the micro trendthing, where there's like
moments happening and you canparticipate or let it pass yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
So basically, what she's seeing is that a lot of
like bigger brands are spendingmore resources and building in
rapid response teams into their2025 planning, which is so
interesting because it seemslike, as a social media
practitioner, like we've been inthis industry for so long and
we've seen the differentiterations of our field and
(45:22):
platforms come up and likechanges in how you post and what
you post and things like thatbut it seems like it's so
consistent, like if you can actquickly, you'll see the reward,
and I think brands are noticingthat more and more, so they're
dedicating bigger teams to beable to do that.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Yeah, it was really happened with the entrance of
TikTok onto the scene.
Because before that socialmedia was all about original
content and doing something forthe first time or being the
first on the scene right or thefirst to start a conversation,
and then with tiktok it kind offlipped the script where it was
like someone does something andthen everyone else piles on and
(46:01):
it becomes a trend and and thealgorithm favors almost like
repeat content rather than thevirality feedback loop I just
had to present on that.
That's true.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
The other thing that they're noticing is that brands
are starting to hire forcreative directors of social.
I thought this was superinteresting.
So what's happening is it'slike a new job description that
seems to be popping up for a lotof bigger brands.
So they're hiring not just fora creative director, but
specifically a creative directorfor social, which makes perfect
sense to me.
Like, as an agency, we'vealways kind of operated with
(46:35):
that kind of role within ourteam.
So we have a creative director.
We also have an art directorwho's very talented and
brilliant and wonderful, andhe's right next to us right now.
So what's cool is that when youwork with us on, say, your
social accounts or socialprogramming, it's kind of built
into our team, we build it intoour agreements.
But I think what people arestarting to notice is that your
(46:57):
social presence is like the, thefront page or the front door of
your brand, like your brand'srepresentation to the world kind
of exists with your livingsocial media feed, and so you
really need someone to stewardthat brand on a creative front,
because every day there's poststhat go out that you know
include sound, includes colors,includes certain shots, includes
(47:20):
a style of photography, itincludes a tone of voice in the
caption, like all of that isbasically how brand plays out in
real, real time.
So I think people are startingto see that there needs to be a
steward of those creative assets, but also a steward that
understands social.
And we've worked with a lot ofdifferent brands and we've had
(47:40):
moments, you know, when awell-intentioned creative
director gets involved in acampaign that we're running and
it just doesn't quite work ifthey don't understand social.
So you really need these socialpeople to be leading the way
when it comes to creativedirection.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Yeah, I think that's the key point.
There is, like many creativedirectors traditionally haven't
understood this channel and sothere's always a disconnect.
So I think it's a cool nod justto like the the level of
influence that that channel hashas has come to have on brand
and on marketing and advertisingoverall, um, and I love to see
(48:18):
it yeah, I love to see socialget it more resources.
I think brands are also justrecognizing that.
So because, to your point ofhow important social is, it's
not.
You can't expect one person todo it all and to be good at it
all, especially because socialis one of the few, if not the
only channels for a brand whereyou're literally at eye level
(48:39):
with your customers.
Like you're on the ground,you're having the conversations.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
you're having to be transparent, you're having to
solve problems and, like oneintermediate level social media
manager can't do that for a hugebrand no so you need different
people playing different rolesthat all understand the channel
and maybe yeah, and maybe insome instances I really feel
like there's when there's a newcampaign that's coming out where
(49:05):
a big chunk of like a globalbrands marketing budget goes
towards this campaign andsometimes social leads leads it
out.
So why not have someone who'sthinking about it first, like it
just makes sense?
Yeah, um, the other thing thatI thought was really interesting
about this report is they talkabout silence brands.
So basically, what we're seeingis there's a bit of a rise of
(49:29):
an anti-trend movement on TikTok, where users are getting
annoyed at brands for leaninginto a meme, think like very
demure, very mindful, like itwas really fun when it started,
but when, like every like lawfirms are doing very demure,
very mindful, it just got oldfast and it was like this is not
for you, this is for us, likedon't get involved here.
(49:50):
And that's kind of the sentimentthat people have.
They're starting to kind of seethrough the smoke a little bit
more and just reject the brandsthat are trying too hard to get
in on the joke.
So, because TikTok is alsogetting more saturated with
brands, it's another reason whya lot of people or brands are
starting to consider otherplatforms, like YouTube Shorts,
(50:11):
which, according to ZariaParavez, who she's a global
social media manager at Duolingo, big fan of what she's doing
there.
She said that for them atDuolingo they're starting to see
a 300% increase in organicimpressions on YouTube Shorts,
which is like heyday TikTok days, so that's pretty interesting.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Yeah, that's notable.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
Yeah.
So for me, the big takeawaysare, like really considering
organic content, like notcontent that's repurposed from a
meme or what people's arewhat's trending right now.
It's like, what can you make as, like, maybe a series or
something that really causes,like creates entertainment value
for people?
That's original, like skitbased content is really cool,
(50:52):
but there's like so many otherthings you can do.
It just like if anythingrequires a bit more creativity I
love it.
Speaker 2 (50:59):
Yeah, I think, do you find that this one, the silence
brand thing is almost at oddswith the first one?
We talked about the rapidresponse element of social and
how brands are building rapidresponse teams to be like
reactive to these trends no,because I think rapid response
is still incredibly valuable, aslong as you can add value.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
I think it's more so that last one is like don't just
recycle what's alreadyhappening there or try so hard
to insert something that doesn'tmake sense for your brand.
So you need to be a bit morecritical and like, consider,
like that.
This is the movement and thesentiment on TikTok right now.
Tiktok users don't want to seebrands involve themselves in
everything.
But rapid response isinteresting because you can
(51:40):
still see an opportunity and ifyou act quickly, you'll see the
reward when it makes sense foryour brand got it okay.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
So it's almost like the.
The type of rapid response thatresonates is less about just
participating in trends and it'smore about seeing something
that happens and finding a wayfor your brand to be able to
like solve that or yeah, oranswer it or and mobilize a team
to make something unique andinteresting.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
Yeah, like, I think skims does this really well.
They see a moment, like they'reso good at picking like or
creating campaigns around peoplewho are really like of the
moment right now.
Like they did a campaign withthe Bridgerton girl, like with
the last the third season thatjust came out I can't remember
her name right now, but theythey had that go live like so
(52:27):
quickly, like they're just likeso fast, and I think that's more
of what you need is likesomeone who's on the pulse and
identifying opportunities andmoving quickly yeah, it's like
rapid response is how is it howit expresses itself?
Speaker 2 (52:41):
but I think how brands can be set up to succeed
with that is with in, likeproactive efforts, which is like
their ability to understandwhat's happening in the culture
on these channels enough thatit's easy to respond quickly
because you already have thecontext as a team, and that's
(53:02):
something that we've beenworking really hard to do over
the last year, especially withour creative director, alyssa,
and you know we're all reactingquickly, no matter what whether
we understand the context or not.
Just because, that's the natureof the channel.
But the more preparation you doand the more kind of constant
assessment you do ahead of timeprepares you to feel equipped to
(53:25):
react when there's a momentthat's relevant for your brand.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Totally.
That's why Scan Club has beenso good for us too, because it
allows like we are an agencythat's, yes, focused on digital
marketing Social media is a bigpiece of this but you know,
we're only so many people whocan keep up with so many things,
and we have a ton of clientsall in like different niches, so
I think ScanClubs allows us tozoom out even more.
(53:51):
So when things start to happen,it doesn't feel surprising to
us.
You can still do that likerapid response, but in a way
that's like you said, like moreproactive, but also like you're
not so, like Like oh no, likeyou have to completely pivot.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
It's not knee jerky.
Speaker 1 (54:07):
Focus on a direction, because you've seen that
direction coming for a while.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
You anticipated it yeah, and that takes the anxiety
out of how quickly thesechannels move, and these trends
move, so sign up for Scan Club.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Yeah, we haven't talked about it that much so far
.
Speaker 2 (54:24):
We do talk about signals, but in the context of
Scan Club, we have a newsletterand a trend report that you can
take advantage of For sure.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
Well, those are the big things on my radar.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
That was a good one, good episode, I liked it Well.
Make sure you subscribe.
Speaker 1 (54:37):
Thanks for being here .
Speaker 2 (54:38):
Make sure you share it with your friends.
Check us out on Instagram.
We're sharing clips all weekand otherwise.
Thanks for coming.
Have a good day.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
Loved it.
I always forget it's coming.
Like I know it's part of theshow now, but like I still feel,
like I'm surprised that it cameout.
I just think about itconstantly through the whole
episode the whole episode untilI can just like I can't wait to
use the gong.
Smack the gong, yeah, gross.
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