Ep:175 The Pale Crawler

People are seeing something terrifying. They've put names on it like Rake and Pale Crawler, but nobody for sure knows what it is, or where it comes from. A witness of one of these hairless humanoids joins me to talk about his horrific encounter that left him traumatized.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I go down that road maybe twice a month to
go back home and visit family and stuff like that.
For the first couple of months, I would white knuckle
the steering wheel driving down that road because of the
anxiety and the feel my heart pounding in my chest
and my neck. Even now, I will not drive down
that road by myself. And I don't even know if
it's I'm afraid I'm going to see it again, or

(00:22):
if it's that if I didn't see it again, I
don't think I could tell anybody. It's crazy enough that
I saw it the first time, and if I said
I saw it again, nobody's gonna believe me.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
And that's a horrible feeling. I do not want to
see another one of these things. This is Bigfoot Crossroads.

(01:12):
My name is Matt and joining me is John, the
mastermind behind Myths, monsters and mullets. Quite a name, John,
How'd you come up with that one?

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Actually, I started all my content creation as comedy, and
I was playing a character named John Mehingcamp.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Okay, Basically, he.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Basically is a ladies man from the eighties who's kind
of stuck there.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
And I was.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Basically doing these videos where I was giving dating advice.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Really bad dating advice. Nice. So this character wears a mullet.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Yeah, So then I started doing these paranor lives on
TikTok That's where most of my content creation was taking place.
And when I would start asking people for their paranormal encounters,
you know.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
It took off.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
So I decided, you know, I'm going to kind of
separate the paranormal from the comedy, and I decided to
take my mullet off to do the paranormal encounters. And
the first thing everybody would ask is where's your mullet?

Speaker 2 (02:28):
So the mullet stayed.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
And back in October, I met the guys from Nevermore Hollows,
Alan and Chris at the Ohio Bigfoot Jamboree and we
became friends, and Alan convinced me to start a podcast
because I had all this content I was getting, you know,
through TikTok Live, and that's how Monsters and Mullets was born.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
Whenever you started asking people for their paranormal stories, what
kind of stories were you getting anything?

Speaker 1 (03:05):
And everything from just ghost stories to dog Man Bigfoot UFOs,
it was basically what my show is right now. You know,
it's if you have a paranormal encounter, whether it's scrypted, UFOs, ghosts,
I've had demonic possession, just.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Anything weird, you know, I want to hear it. Well,
we've talked a little bit on Facebook back and forth,
and you kind of come from an interesting position a skeptic.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
Yeah, absolutely, I was a skeptic up until twenty twenty one.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
So how do you go from being a skeptic to
talking to people about all these crazy experiences.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
Well, about the time that I started my content creation
guy I worked with that also has a love for
the paranormal. We liked watching the shows, but we would
make fun.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Of them, you know, like the ghost hunting shows and
things like that. I do the same thing.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Well, I live twenty minutes north of the Randolph County
Infirmary in Winchester, Indiana, and it's been featured.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
On several paranormal and you know, ghosting shows.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
So we're like, why don't we get some guys together
and our spouses and we'll go down there and investigate
this place. So we bought some, you know, some cheap
equipment and got a group of about sixteen or seventeen
people together, which was way too many. That we found
out but we went in there and we started just

(04:49):
emulating the things that we saw on these ghost hunting shows.
And I went in with the goal of basically the
bunking anything that anybody found that you know, all that
you know that's paranormal. And we had a lot of
really unexplainable things happened that night, including a rock being

(05:14):
thrown at me from the darkness and everybody there was
only five people left at that point, and everybody is
on camera, and this rock comes flying out of the
darkness and hits the cabinet next to my leg, And
at that point I came to the realization that ghost
are reel. So I started thinking, well, if ghost are reel,

(05:40):
then what else is real? Which led me to podcasts,
and I think, as most people do, the first place
alien if they're looking for Bigfoot, is Sasquatch chronicles, And
after listening to a bunch of encounter I realized that

(06:02):
one I had some weird stuff happened to me growing
up in southern Ohio that sounded a lot like what
these people were reporting, including hearing some people would call
the Ohio how right, So that that led me to

(06:25):
digging into it further. And when I explained to you
the things that I did experience. They're going to sound
pretty familiar to a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
So whenever that rock hit next to you during the investigation,
and that whole realization took place. Up until that point,
besides the bigfoot hindsight that so many people go through
once they start down the rabbit hole, you hadn't experienced
anything throughout your lifetime that you considered unexplainable or paranormal

(06:59):
in any way.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yes, yeah, and and the especially what I now think
were sasquatching counters. My grandfather was my my male role model,
and he was a very practical and no nonsense type
of guy.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
And you know, as.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
An impressionable youth, you know that is the uh, that
is what I tried to emulate. Right, So, you know,
there there was no such thing as ghosts. There was
no such thing as bigfoot UFOs anything like that. And
you know that the things that happened to me in
the past, you know, I tried to rationalize it. You know, well,

(07:47):
there there has to be a reason, there has to
be something explainable. And looking back, you know, these things
just weren't explainable. You know, I just passed them off
is okay, that was weird, and just moved on with lie.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
It's such a weird place to be at in your
life whenever you come to that realization that there are
things out there that aren't supposed to be out there,
and that you were wrong previously and then and your
role models were wrong, and the people that you know
you learn from and as you said, emulated, you know,

(08:27):
were wrong about a lot of stuff. And it's a
hard pill to swallow. So looking back on your experiences,
what were some of the things that stood out to you.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
Well, you know, one of the things that that a
lot of people report is the smell.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Of sasquatch.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
And there were two events that happened that again never
saw anything but the first one. All of these happened
between the ages of I would say eleven and sixteen
years old, so we're talking nineteen eighty eight to nineteen

(09:14):
ninety two. My grandparents owned a horse farm and we
would spend our summers in Tar Hollow State Park in Ohio.
That's not far from Hawking Hills. Most people have heard
of Hawking Hills, but we would spend our weekends down

(09:35):
there horseback riding and camping, and there was this one
time we were riding what we called Rattlesnake Ridge. And
the reason we called it that is they had done
some logging and when they're that, they have these piles
of just like that leftover trees, you know that nope

(10:01):
that they didn't use, and they had it lined up
along the trail, and Rattlesnakes have built dens in the
in this just tangle of logs and sticks and stuff
like that. So that's how I get the name Rattlesnake Ridge.
But right across from this tangle of wood was a

(10:25):
nice wide spot in the shade that we would always
stop to rest our horses. And on this particular time,
it was very hot like and if you know anything
about horses, but when it's you know, it gets to
be about one hundred degrees, you know, ninety to one
hundred degrees, horses don't want to All they want to

(10:47):
do is walk. You know, they're there. It's too much
energy to to go fast or whatever. But horses also
they remember where you stop. So if you if they've
been down this this trail, you know, twenty thirty times,
they'll recognize that, hey, up here, I'm getting a break.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
And I mean my horses of.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Them, i'd get to that spot, it would just automatically
just pull over to the side, like okay, it's time
for a break.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Well, we get to the spot.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
And it just dumps typical rotten meat, uh, wet garbage,
just rank smell that we had never smelled before.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
And we we pull.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Our horses over, you know, rain them over, and they
don't want to stop. They're like doing circles.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
You know.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
They normally they're happy to get you know, for us
to get off their backs. But none of the horses
wanted to stay in this area. And you know, my
ground balls like, well, obviously they don't like the smell.
And so we rode on down the path maybe another
half mile and the horses were fine, they stopped and

(12:14):
you know, had no problems. You know, they were when
when when we were back by the rattlesnake then they
were basically doing circles and real like nervous and again
didn't see anything. But you know, when you when you
hear these people talk about about the smell, that's that's

(12:36):
what I smelled that day. And the reaction from the
horses was bizarre, you know, when it when it's that hot,
they're they're they're wanting to stop and for us to
get off their backs, you know, so for them not
to want to stop just seems bizarre and out of
place to me. And you you uh, you add in

(12:58):
just that that rid meat and trash smell, and you know,
makes you think, well, maybe maybe there was something there
and the horse's sensitive that and we couldn't.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
If you ride horses, you have to pay attention to them.
You have to learn their body language and everything.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Yeah, and it wasn't just myself that noticed it. I
mean even my grandpa, who, like I said, he's no nonsense.
You know, his horse didn't want to stick around either.
Nobody's did you know, they wanted to keep going and
they really should have wanted a break at that point
because it was so hot that day.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Did your grandfather just assume that it was just something
dead in the area.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
He blamed it on the rattles stakes because rattlesteaks do
have a musky smell, right, That is not what we
smiled that day, you know, but that's what he attributed
it to. You know, in his mind, that made the
most sense.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
I mean, that would had to have been one heck
of a rattle snake downe to some smell it like.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
That, right and unless unless it unless they killed something
and drug it into that den.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
I just don't see that happening. Have you gone back
and looked for like reports in that area or anything.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yes, actually, there there have been several reports of sasquatch
in that area, And in fact, when we were riding
down there, there was a guy who lived in the
area and he told us that he had actually seen

(14:37):
a creature down there. But back at that time we
all made fun of him, sure, because you know, oh,
that's a crazy sasquatch guy or crazy bigfoot guy. Yea,
And he he described the smell as well. But you know,

(15:00):
Holler State Park, I want to say it's maybe like
twelve to fifteen hundred acres that's probably a good rough estimate.
And it's just like most of southern Ohio, very hilly,
a lot of deep valleys and steep ridges and things
like that. So you know, when you hear when you

(15:23):
start looking into sasquatch, and it does look like a
could environment to where sasquatch could could exist. I don't
know if you've ever seen the show what was that
called Paranormal Declassified. Yeah, I think it was on MAC. Yeah,

(15:43):
they did a they had a an episode where they
actually were in tar Hollow State Park. Oh wow, recording
on Bigfoot and they caught some weird noises and stuff
down there. So yeah, there's there's been reports from tar Hollow.
There was another time again, I was a kid, so

(16:08):
and I hung out with adults. I was the oldest grandchild.
You know, the adults they like to indulge in adult
beverages while we rode, and then sometimes they would start
indulging a little early, let's put it that way. Yeah,
and then when we would do that, the breaks would

(16:28):
get longer and longer and longer, and it no longer
became fun for me. Keen know, because I'm sitting here
watching everybody just party and yeah, this is I'm one
to ride horses so on this particular day and it's funny.
I just talked to my grandma about this over the weekend,

(16:50):
and she remembered this. She did well, she remembered what
led up. One of the women that was in our group.
She indulged pretty heavily. And I want to say by noon,
I know, it was eleven o'clock to noon.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
She was.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Very inebriated, let's put it that way, and she needed
to go back to camp. Well, nobody else wanted to
go back to camp, but I wasn't having any fun,
so I volunteered to take her back to camp. And
I would have been probably fourteen at this time. And

(17:32):
you know, I'd been riding that since I was eight
years old, so I knew the park, I knew the trails.
I would often just ride back to camp by myself,
just because I got tired of waiting on everybody. But anyway,
so I volunteered to take her back to camp. And
she is to the point where she's probably could have

(17:56):
used the seat belt, let's about that way. So we
take off back towards the camp and we come up
to this hill. And we had just come down this
hill probably forty five minutes prior to this, and we

(18:17):
didn't smell anything. But as we come up to this hill,
it's again that that same smell that we smelled up
on Rattle Snake Ridge. And I turned around to say
something to the woman that was with me, and she

(18:39):
looks at me and says, what the F is that?
And about that time, our horses has bolted. They took
off wanting to run up this hill. And if you
do any trail riding, you don't let your horses run
up hill. You know, they can get hurt, they can
get winded. You know, you rain them in, make them

(19:02):
climb the hill at a reasonable pace. There was no
holding the horses back, like you know, I tried, she
was trying. Our horses just they bolted and would finally
make it to the top of the hill. And I've
forced I forced our horses to stop because you know,

(19:24):
they're they're breathing super heavy sweat running off of them.
But both horses turned, but their ears perked up and
they were facing down the hill like they were watching
for something. And at the time I thought maybe she

(19:46):
was talking when she said, what the ep is that?
And she was talking about smell. But in hindsight, I
don't know if maybe she actually saw something that day,
because she didn't say, what, what's what's that smell?

Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, she said what f is that?

Speaker 1 (20:09):
And then immediately our horses bolted like maybe they saw
it too. I don't know, But again, it was that
the horses just were acting so.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Strangely around that same smell.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yes, and you know, we get to the top of
the hill, we can't smell it anymore. The horses did
calm down. We sat up there maybe fifteen twenty minutes,
let the horses catch their breath and stuff, and we
rode on back to camp. And you know, the horses
were fine, you know, they they acted just by and
we didn't smell that smell anymore. But again, at that

(20:47):
time are here touching as bigfoot? I don't know what
bigfoot is. You know, they heard a bigfoot JANEA Patterson film.
But you know, all that stuff is out on the
west coast, you know, that's not in Ohio. And again
I would have never at that point, I would have
never heard about, you know, the reports of the smell or.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
Anything like that.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Right, you know, my Mileen introduction was basically Patterson Gemlin
and Arian Henderson's.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
You know, yeah, how far away was that area from
Rattlesnake Ridge. That's the other side of the park.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
I can tell you that, yeah, because we were we
were down a Butcher holler.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
And that's what the want done? What is that?

Speaker 1 (21:35):
That's the you're you're basically opposite sides of the park,
and where the guy had the encounter that was in
a totally.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
Different part of the park. Would it be normal for
horses to react that way, like fearful of something if
they had never seen it.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
Before normally, you know, if a horse, yes, yes, and no,
sometimes they will they will freeze and look at it
like you know what am I seeing? Mm hmm, and
and and that can happen a lot of people don't

(22:17):
realize this. You know, we'd be riding our horses down
country roads in front of the in front of the farm,
and it could be something as simple as just on
the mailbox, you know, the little red flag. They can
ride by that thing, you know, on a hundred times, but
the one time that flags up, it looks different and

(22:38):
they will shy away from it and that skittish towards it.
So you know, it's it's hard to say, like like
I said, you know, at the time, I thought she
was talking about the smell, But in hindsight, she didn't
say what was that smell? You know, said what is that?

(22:59):
And unfortunately I have no way of getting a hold
of this woman.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
And this is forty years ago, so and she was
three sheets to the wind, and.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, I don't and when we got back to camp,
I had to help her into her camper. That's how
that's how bad she was. So whether she would even
remember it, I don't know. Yeah, that's the weird smells
that I experienced. And then I had more that happened

(23:32):
down there.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
In that same part.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Oh yeah, yeah, I've had what I think are four
encounters down there total. Oh wow, the next one and
again for the listeners. You know, I didn't believe in
Bigfoot at the time, so I didn't write any of
this down. I don't even know what order any of

(23:56):
this happened. But they these these encounters, if that's what
you want to call them, stuck out in my mind,
you know, even after my rational mindset. They were just weird.
So my grandparents had a what Abago motor home if
you remember the Winebago motorhose in like the seventies and eighties.

(24:21):
Above the captain's chairs was a loft bed, and me,
being the kid, that was my bed. Well, my grandparents,
my grandpa, he would not run the air conditioner. He
would not run the generator to run the air conditioner.

(24:41):
So that's basically like an oven up there. You know,
it's just one hundred degrees outside all day long and
you climb up in there. Man, it is just it's
horrible and there's no airflow. And so a lot of
times when it was hot, we would listen to the
radio for the weather forecast.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
You know, this is long before cell phones and radar
and all.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
That, but we would listen to the radio and as
long as they weren't calling for rain, I would make
it bed in the horse trailer. And what I would
do is I would take Bell's hay, lay them out,
throw a tarp over them, grab a sheet and a blanket,

(25:23):
a pillow, and I would sleep in the horse trailer
because it was you know, twenty thirty degrees cooler. Yeah,
And there was one night. I can't tell you what
time of night it was, but when horses get thirsty,
they paw at the ground.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
You know.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
The horses are tied up to basically hitching posts where
we're camping, and we would take them down to the
creek to for their water. So's sometime in the middle
of the night, I wake up to this bumping sound and.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
It was very rhythmic, but it was like dump sumph,
very heavy sounding.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
My initial thought was, okay, one of the horses is
pawing at the ground because they're thirsty in hindsight, though
normally when they paw, they pall a little faster than that.
But at the time, as I thought was, Okay, the
horses are thirsty, and if.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
I don't get up.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
And take them down to the creek, I'm gonna have
to listen to this all night long. So I throw
my blanket off and I grabbed my flashlight and as
soon as I turned the flashlight on, something outside the
horse trailer takes off and it takes off in the

(27:00):
direction of the creek, and it is just crashing through
the trees and hear it take one step in the
middle of the creek and then out the other side,
more crashing. And when I said crashing, it sounds like
a car driving through the woods, like your your ear

(27:21):
and branches break, and it sounds like it's running through
the trees, not just not not through the forest like
gets knocking stuff over as as it runs.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Off right, just bulldoze in a path. Right.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
My initial thought was that has to be the biggest
effing deer in the on the planet. I mean, I've
used a deer hunt, but deer running through the woods
like they don't, like they might hit some branches or
some you know, scrub or whatever, but they don't. They
don't really run through the like not much noise, you know.

(27:59):
And there down there everything's sandstone. It's it's real flat sandstone.
And you know, as a kid, I would play in
this creek. And you cannot walk on this on these
these stones without making noise. Literally impossible, I mean unless

(28:21):
you're a ninja or something. I don't know, but the
creek itself is probably twenty to thirty feet wide.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
In my mind, I'm envisioning.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
This deer jumping into the center of the creek and
then out the other side. Because there was only one
one football in the middle of this creek. That's that's
pretty impressive. I mean, that's you know, ten to fifteen
feet stride. So I get up and I take the

(28:52):
horses down, take them down two at a time. The
horses did not want to go down to the creek
like r the old adage you can lead a horse
to water, but you can't make a drink. These horses
didn't just go down like, they didn't want to physically
go down like I was pulling them. And when i'd

(29:13):
get them down to the creek. They're just twisting and
turning trying to get back up to the camp. And
I took all four horses down there. All four of
them acted exactly the same, and so it obviously they
weren't thirsty, but they also also did not want to
be down there. And normally, you know, the darkness doesn't

(29:34):
doesn't spruit horses like that. You know, I've taken many
a horse down in the middle of the night to
get a drink and doesn't bother them.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
They didn't want to stay down there. Do you remember
them reacting at all to whatever took off?

Speaker 1 (29:51):
Now, when when the thumping sound was going on, I
did hear them kind of nickering, like one of them
was nickering, you know, that just that little you know,
that little little thing that they do. But they also
do that sometimes when they're thirsty. So but they will
also do that, you know, if they're happy to see

(30:14):
somebody too, you know, So if they see a and
this is all speculation, but if they were to have
seen like humanoid looking thing coming towards them, maybe they
thought it was a person.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
You know.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah, I don't know, I don't know. But the thumping
sound is what gets me.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
I and I wonder, now, had I been like in
a tent or something laying on the ground, had it
would I have been able to feel it? But but
the tires of the horse trailer, you know, I didn't
feel anything.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Would it be common for you guys to like see
deer and stuff around camp on occasion?

Speaker 1 (31:02):
One occasion you might see one come in, but you know,
not normally. You know, everybody's got campfires going, And.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, it just seems really odd for like, you know,
wildlife to be coming into a populated camp like that
in the middle of the night.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
Right now, we would get we would get possums and
raccoons and stuff, you know, coming in for the trash,
but I don't very rarely would we ever get deer
in there.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
And usually that would be.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Early morning, you know, like at dawn. Sometimes they would
try to There's one part of the park where the
horsemen's camp they call it the day area or whatever,
but it was all grass and sometimes you would see
some of them up there grazing. But in the actual

(31:53):
part where the motor homes and the campers and horse
trailers and trucks and stuff, not normally. Just like I said,
you know, you had had campfires going, people milling around,
you know, all hours of the night, don't. I don't
ever recall like waking up and seeing a deer outside
the horse trailer. Did it happened? Absolutely, But I don't

(32:14):
recall that ever happening.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Now. I know I'm kind of jumping ahead here. But
or horses present and all of your experiences.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Yes, as a matter of fact, they were. I've talked
about with my wife. We talked about going down down
there this summer because I haven't been to down there
to camp in twenty years, ever since my son was
like one, so almost twenty five years.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
So I would like to go back.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Down knowing what I know now, Yeah, you don't kind
of look around and maybe take some adio recorder and
things like that do what we catch. But yeah, every
every time that I hadn't experience, there were horses present.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, I wonder if that might have been some sort
of draw or attraction or something.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
I have heard on other shows. I've never taken a
report myself, but I've I've heard on other shows. You know,
people that own horses say they've seen they believe sasquatch,
you know, braided their horses hair or.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
You know.

Speaker 1 (33:35):
I have seen seen the horses interacting with sasquatch, So
I don't know. I've never personally taken them taken that encounter,
but yeah, I heard it on another show.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
I've heard lots of horse stories, lots of encounters while
people were on horseback. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
I've often wondered, you know, I see how tear and
other wildlife reacts when they see a person riding a horse,
like they don't know what to make of it, right, Yeah,
deer look at you like, Okay, I smell horse, but
I also smell human that doesn't look like either one.
I always wonder if if sasquatch would have kind of

(34:11):
the same reaction to seeing people on horseback.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
I don't know, I mean they might. I mean, can
you imagine if you were some animal. Not saying that
sasquatch is animal, Calm down, folks, but I'm just saying, like,
if you were a deer and you saw like a
human riding an animal, how strange that would be to
you to try and process? Right, right?

Speaker 1 (34:36):
I mean, that'd be like you're looking at your front
window and seeing I don't know, a cat riding a dog.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
You know, well, what is going on here? Again?

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Another night in the horse trailer. And I do know
the time this happened, but I don't know the.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
Date or the year.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
I will up to what I thought sounded kind of
like a tornado siren. And again we would always check
the radio before I went to bed to make sure
it wasn't going to rain, because I've gotten stuck in
that horse trailer when it rains and it sucked, I think,

(35:20):
you know, because it's it's like a stock trailer. It's
got the open slits on the side, fair flow. But anyway,
I wake up and I hear it. I can't even
imitate this, but you know, if you if you imagine
a tornado siren where it starts off low and then

(35:40):
goes like high pitched. But but the tornado siren, you know,
it goes high as low.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
As high as low.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
This started off low, went high and then cut off.
And I'm not sure exactly how long it hasted at
the time, you know, it seemed like it maybe twenty
thirty seconds. But you know, I woke up hearing this

(36:16):
this weird, weird tornado sire. The Horseman's camp in Tar
Hollow State Park. The closest town is Londonderry, Ohio, and
by car it takes you about twenty minutes to get there.
The Horseman camp also sits down in a valley, so

(36:38):
you got ridges all the way around it between you
and Londonderry. So didn't makes sense that I was hearing
tornado sirens from Londonderry. And the other thing was, when
I initially woke up, I'm like, that doesn't even sound
like it's coming from the direction of Londonderry. So I

(37:04):
laid there for a minute, I don't know how long, like, well,
I don't hear it anymore, and maybe maybe I dreamt it.
Then it happened again, and this time I'm awake, fully awake,
and I realized that this sound is coming from like

(37:27):
the center of the park. In the middle of Tarhaller
State Park. They do have a fire tower and I've
been I've climbed that fire tower countless times. I didn't
remember them having a tornado siren there. But you know,
at the time, I thought, maybe maybe they do, maybe

(37:48):
that maybe there's a tornado siren on the fire tower.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
But again.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
Did that low to high and then just cut off
and it shut off.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
I don't know what this means is that's weird. I think.
You know, sometimes those towers will have like those old
crank air sirens or whatever, but even if you like
stop cranking them, they still have to wind down. I
don't think they can just right abruptly.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Was this was a just a sharp cut off. So
I lay there. I don't know how long. There's some
I'm still processing it because I'm thinking, you know, if
that is a tornado siren, probably ought to wake some
people up, you know, but I'm not hearing it anymore.

(38:36):
It happens a third time, like, okay, I gotta get up,
I gotta get I gotta go and at least listen
to the radio, you know, find out what this is about.
By the time I get out of the horse trailer
and you know, get my shoes and stuff on, and
it had cut it cut off again. As I'm making

(38:57):
my way into the camper. It happens a fourth time,
and so I go into camper and you know, I'm
trying to be quiet, trying to find the radio, but
I wake my grandpa up. And this is the only
reason I know what time it is, because he's looked
at his watch and said, why are you waking me

(39:19):
up at two o'clock in the morning. Uh, And I
told him, I said, you know, I think I hear
tornado sirens. I said, I want to listen to the radio.
But we turned on the radio and nothing. No clear skies,
it's no rain, nothing. So he yells at me and says,
you must have dreamt to go back to bed. So

(39:39):
I didn't, you know, it was another one of those
just weird things that yeah, you know, Grapple said, you know,
there wasn't that. There was no weather, so it couldn't
have been a tornado siren. Maybe I did dream it
that I know, I didn't.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
You know.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
It happened four times. I heard it while I was walking,
you know. And so I brought up Sasquatch Chronicles earlier.
And that's the first place I ever heard the.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Ohio how.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
And when that recording played, every hair on my body
stood up because that's what I.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Heard that night in Ohio. In Ohio.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yeah, and it would have been around the same time
that Moneymaker recorded that. It would have been early nineties,
late eighties, early nineties.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
So yeah, yeah, like I said, I can't say that
any of these were definitely sasquatch, right, But you know,
after hearing people's encounters looking back, it's like, you know,
that's that's pretty pretty similar to what I hear. And

(40:56):
then of course Aaron the Ohio how recording and other
recordings similar. You know, the Ohio How gets you know,
the gets hurt all the time. But you know, you
hear other recordings of How's all across the country that
sound very similar. That's what I heard that night. And
we I mean, we don't have coyotes, but we don't

(41:19):
have wolves, you know, nothing that's gonna howl like that.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
And that abrupt cutoff, that's that's so bizarre.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
It was like it was almost like a person screaming
and like running out an aeronym boom.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
And just got off. There wasn't a person screaming.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Then, I'm just saying, you know, I'm using that as
a an analogy. But yeah, it was louder, it was.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
And it echoed through the through the forest, and.

Speaker 1 (41:53):
But it wasn't it wasn't so loud that I don't
think if I'd be inside the camper, I would have
heard it. You know, I'm I'm I'm basically sleeping outside
at this point, and you know, I'm I'm always listening
for the horses, and you know, like I said earlier,

(42:15):
you know, I heard what I thought was the horses pawing.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
At the ground. That woke me up. So, you know,
just it was something different. I wanted to ask you.
You said you heard it four different times. Was there
a pattern to it or was it like kind of
sporadic spaced apart?

Speaker 1 (42:35):
It was sporadic because like the last two times I
heard it, I bet it happened within a minute, minute
and a half of each other. The gap between the
first one, the second one, and the third one there
might have been I don't know, or five six minutes

(42:55):
in between. Is I laid there contemplating what, you know,
did I really hear that? And then the second time
it's like, okay, that's not the right direction. Is am
I hearing a tornado siren? You know I had time
to you know, lay there and think about it.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
So yeah, and each time from the same direction.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yes, yeah it was. It was absolutely from towards the
center of the park and in the opposite direction of
the nearest town. So you know, look like again, you know,
hindsight's twenty twenty, and after hearing all these encounters, you know,
I do believe I heard the Ohio How that night

(43:38):
for what what's been called the Ohio How.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
I mean, yeah, I'm sure you've heard you know, coyotes
and sirens and all kinds of noises since then. And
you hear a recording of the Ohio How and you're like, yeah,
that's it.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
I mean literally, when I was at work listening to
Sasquatch chronicles and have my headphones, and every hair on
my body stood up and I shivered because it is like,
took me back to that night, that's what I heard.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
And that happens to so many people, you know that
don't even think about Bigfoot. It's not on their minds,
doesn't exist, whatever, And then later on in life they
get into the subject or they have an encounter, and
then they start reflecting back on those little things that
you know, always stuck with them that they couldn't quite

(44:32):
explain or put their finger on. And like you're saying,
there's so many similarities, how can you deny that? Right?

Speaker 1 (44:41):
The other thing that you get is, and I'm sure
you've been through this, you tell people, you know what
you're well, this is a hobby for me, you know,
taking these paranormal encounters, you know, telling people coming in
and telling their stories. People make fun of you a
little bit, sure, and then after a few minutes of talking,

(45:03):
they'll be like, well, you know there was this one time.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
Yeah, yeah, well now that you said that, actually right,
You start explaining things to him and like, well, you know, yeah,
I did hear something weird that one night. So I'm
like somebody talking in the woods. Hearing you tell those stories.

(45:28):
It actually reminded me of something that happened to me
whenever I was a kid, Like I said, I was
raised by my great grandparents, and whenever I was probably, oh,
I think I was four or five years old, they
bought a boat dock on the lake about an hour

(45:49):
and a half outside of town where we lived, and
we started going up there. And we had only been
up there once or twice I think at this point
we hadn't had it very long, and whenever we would go,
eventually we started sleeping in the boat dock on cots
and everything. It was an enclosed boat house. And eventually

(46:14):
they bought you know, a trailer on some property nearby
and all that, but we had an old truck camper
that'd go on the back of the pickup truck, and
that's what we would sleep in. There's a queen size
bed on the inside, and there was storage space basically
completely underneath the bed that I would sleep in as

(46:34):
a little kid, you know, under the bed. And I
remember one night specifically, I woke up as my grandpa
was coming back into the camper and there was a
little interior light that you could switch on and off
next to the door, and it was on and he

(46:54):
didn't wake me up whenever he went out, but it
woke me up whenever he was coming back in, and
I saw that he had a gun in his hand,
and so like, I'm freaked up, you know, like what's
going on? What are you doing? And I remember him
saying somebody was snooping around outside, and my grandma was like,

(47:22):
who was it? And he said, you know, something like, oh,
it was probably just a hog and he closed the
door one. Yeah, at first he said someone, and then
he said a hog, and then later on life. Keep
in mind, like I said, we bought this property when
I was like five at the latest, and so I

(47:47):
was up there weekly for the rest of my life.
Never saw any hog sign, never saw any hogs up there.
Nothing and my ground paw. I mean, if it had
been a person, there's there's nowhere that they could have hid.

(48:07):
They couldn't have ran out of sight. There were woods,
but the woods were at least a quarter mile from
where we were. I mean we were literally on the
edge of the water, and then it's just a big
open field area and then the woods on the other
side of the field. So was this uh this boat dock?

Speaker 1 (48:31):
Did it sit like empty for a while, like not
in use before before your grandparents bought it.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
I don't have any idea. The property was owned by
this guy, and at that time there wasn't hardly It
was actually a cove on a lake, and the property
itself was kind of triangle shaped, with the boat dock
being at the point, and it was the only dock

(48:58):
that was down there. There were some larger docks a
little bit down or further up in the cove, but
they weren't enclosed or anything. They were just rental slips.
And then at the entrance to the property, which again
was probably I mean it was more than a quarter
mile but probably not quite half a mile, there were

(49:20):
a few mobile home trailers and then the rest of
the park was just empty. It was for like you know,
weekenders with their RVs and campers and stuff, and we
were the only people down there. I mean, there was nobody.
And it wasn't until you know, years later that people
started kind of populating the park and moving more trailers

(49:43):
in and everything.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Yeah, but you do hear you do hear about sasquatch
and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (49:54):
In around boat docks.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
Kind of remember it was that the Pike County Monster
in Indiana where people were being terrorized at the boat dock.
That's when it comes to mind.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
But yeah, you also hear a lot of stuff about
boat ramps and it was right by a boat ramp too. Yeah.
Years later, I would end up, you know, becoming a
bigfoot investigator later on in life, and I actually did
kind of research the area a little bit. There was

(50:31):
a sighting not too far from there, and I did
find a track and some strange stick structures and a
few other weird things on down the road from there,
not directly there, but nearby and definitely within you know
range that it could have been. You know, I guess

(50:53):
a bigfoot. I don't really have an explanation. I don't
know what it was. My grandpa, you know, hunting, fishing
his entire life, living off the land. You know, they
don't make them like him anymore, and so it was
just it was very peculiar to me, and it just
kind of always stuck with me that something got him

(51:14):
spooked and got him out of the camp or with
a gun in the middle of the night, and he
never fired a shot or really acted like he knew
what it was, and just very strange.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
It just it sticks out to me that he said
someone at first and then changed his tuning to a hog.

Speaker 2 (51:30):
Yeah, And I mean I didn't even hear about hoggs
until geez, another ten to fifteen years after that was
the first time I would say I ever even heard
about like hogs being in the state, let alone that
part of the state. And like I said, never saw

(51:54):
any hog sign, never saw any hogs, never heard about
anybody seeing any This all seems kind of weird.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
We we have uh dogs were introduced, we have faral
hogs done.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
Southeast Ohio as well.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
But I don't remember back, like you said, growing up,
ever even hearing about it. But now you you do
hear about it, and you know, they're a nuisance animal. Yeah,
but you know, never heard of your you know, and
even even back then black bear, I mean you would
care of one every once, maybe five six years. They're

(52:34):
they're slowly coming back into you know, southern Ohio. But
back then, no.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
I did have.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
There was that there was a guy who there was
a Tar Hollow. Again, he was a kid. He was
a little bit older than me, so he might have
been eighteen at the time.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
He went down there deer hunting, and.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
He said that he was coming back to camp and
he was staying in the horseman's camp, so I know
the trails that he was on. He was coming back
into camp, and he said he came across a black bear.
He said that he went back to the top of
the ridge, followed the ridge all the way around, and
came in from the other side of the camp.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
Well, he went.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
Probably five miles out of his way to get back
into camp, and you know, everybody was making fun of
him for it. But he also never came back to
Tarhallow after that, like to ride or anything. So looking back,
I wonder if he didn't say bear and he saw

(53:48):
something else and he.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
Was deer honeing at the time. I mean, so he
was armed with something, you know.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
And now that's what we all said, is like, you know,
if if if you felt threatened by the bear, you
take it out, you know.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
And you know nobody's gonna question that. Yeah, you know,
holy but he didn't. He went to the.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
Top of the ridge, walked all the way around, and
didn't get back until after dark. Because he went, you know,
I'd say that's at least at least three miles out
of his way to get around to the other side
of the park or the other side of the camp.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
That just doesn't seem like.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
A as a hunter. If I would have come across
the bear, I might have fired a shot up in
the air to scare the thing off, right, you know,
that's not what he did. He turned tail and don't
way out of his way for a bear, And I
just don't see it.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
And if you're scared, you're you're not. You're going to
take the shortest route, not the longest route. That's what
I would think too.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
You know, there was other trails that he could have
come down. He could have come down the road. There's
a road that comes down in front of the camp.
He went all the way around this this ridge line
to come in, and he went way out of his way.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
Let's just put it that way.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
And it just never made sense to us, and we
make fun of him for being afraid of the bear.
But again, he never came back forced back riding or
camping again either. So that was the last time I
ever saw him. I don't know. Maybe maybe he saw
something more and just didn't want to say bigfoot because

(55:32):
he'd heard us make fun of the other guy.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Yeah, you know, now in our Facebook conversation, you mentioned
something else that you have experienced, and I have been
waiting patiently.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
I will warn you now that this is still pretty
pretty fresh. I happened in November of last year, and.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
I have trouble telling this one. Take your time, if
you need a break, that's fine. I should be all right.
I'm just really wanting to hear this story because this

(56:30):
is something that's kind of plaguing my thoughts a little.
I can say it's plagued mine since it happened, so yeah,
I can only imagine. So yeah, I'll shut up now.
The floor is yours.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
November thirtieth, twenty twenty four, my wife and I I
don't think I said this at the beginning. I live
in Indiana.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
I live really.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
Close the Ohio Indiana border. My wife and I had
spent the day Christmas shopping in Greenville, Ohio, and it's
a not a forty minute drive from Greenville.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
My house.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
And I have to go through Union City of Ohio.
Well at Union City of Ohio, and Indiana's right on
the border. And being about seven o'clock at night, my

(57:40):
wife we were driving this is State Route twenty eight,
coming out of the Union City, headed northwest, and my
wife was on her phone, this is all this is
all farmland. You know, there's no you know, you get

(58:03):
the occasional, you know, like security light at a farm
or something like that, but there's no either lights. I
saw corn fields, streams and stuff like that. We're headed
out towards home and my wife is ora phone. He's

(58:24):
putting in a Walmart order, but she's not paying attention to.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
The road that I am.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Because if you're from the country, you know that that.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Time of year, deer very active.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
And like I grew up in the country, so miss
I'm knock one wood.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
I've never had a deer. I probably just danks myself,
but uh missed, barely missed a few so in front
of me.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
It's hard to till at night, but I would I
would guess maybe quarter mile qu a mile in front
of me was another vehicle. And you know, this part
of Indiana is very you know, you can see for miles,
so I can see, I can see the car in

(59:19):
front of me, and would cross this little little creek.
I think it's called Miller's Stream. I think it's what
it's called. And again I'm watching the vehicle in front

(59:43):
of me to see if it swerves or it's its
breaks or anything.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
And it didn't. But we crossed this creek and mh.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Something appears in the road. And when I say appears,
I'm not sure. I'm not sure if that's even the
right word. I noticed something in the road, let's put
it that way. It's on the center line, and when

(01:00:33):
it first comes into view, it is what.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Looks to me to be the upper body of a
man that is holding itself up with its knuckles. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
All I see is basically the upper body from like
the the just the torso, the head and the arms,
and it is looking to its right, but its body
is facing me, and as I got a little closer,

(01:01:25):
it turned its head and it looked at me.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
This figure was.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Gray like cigarette ash gray. And when it turned and looked,
there's like it didn't have eyes like there was just.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
It was just black. It was there was nothing, and
I didn't have any clothes on that night.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
It was it was around freezing. We'd we'd had snow flurries.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
It was.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
It was kind of muscular, not like body build and muscular,
but like bit.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
I could see. I could see like the muscles in
the chest and then the arms and the shoulders and
and uh. But it turned and looked at me, and
the face.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
There was no mouth or no nose from where like
the eye sockets were, That's what it looked like to me.
It was just two eye sockets, but I couldn't see
like the backs of them.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
It was just black.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
And from like the eye sockets down it was like flat.
I couldn't see a mouth, I couldn't see a nose,
like not even.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
A bump or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Had no hair, I did. I didn't see any ears.
I don't know that whether it had them or not,
I don't know. Because I was I can see as
I saw was the eyes. So you know, all this,

(01:03:58):
all this took place in probably a matter of five seconds.
It takes me a second to process that I'm seeing
something there. And as I get close to it, so
it's up on the snuckles on its fists and with

(01:04:22):
its right hand, it took like a step.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
Towards me.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
With its left hand it lunged at the bar. I
swerved just as it like made that move towards me.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
And my wife.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
You know, she looks up from her phone and I
was like, did you see that? Of course she didn't,
but I just I take off, you know, I got
to get out of there. It took me several minutes.
By my wife's asking me, you know what's going on.

(01:05:12):
I couldn't even talk. Took me several minutes to be
able to tell her what I saw. And she asked me,
She's like, do you want to go back? And I
said to no, I don't know what I just saw,

(01:05:36):
but it shouldn't exist, and I am I'm shaking at
this point. So we end up getting home and as
I mentioned in the beginning of the show, I'd become
good friends with the guys from Nevermore Hollows, and I

(01:06:04):
called Alan, because one I knew that, and I needed
to talk to somebody that would believe me the one
and two that I felt comfortable enough telling. So I
call him to tell him what happened, and he gets

(01:06:27):
his co host on the line. They talked me down.
They talked me through it. Tell me make sure you
write all this down. You don't forget anything. And like
I said, I am, I'm on the phone with him,
I'm crying, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
Shaking, And they asked me.

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
They's like, did you hit it? And at the time,
I didn't remember hitting anything. You know, if if you've
ever get an animal on the road.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
You feel it, you hear it. But I didn't. I didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
I didn't feel anything. So we talked for I don't
know ten or fifteen minutes, and I need a cigarette,
so I go outside. I was still I'm better because
I had talked to them, but I got my thinking

(01:07:32):
and I was like, maybe I did hit it. So
walked out and I checked the front fender. There was
nothing or damage or anything. I get through the driver
door and there were four.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
Like finger marks down the side of the car from
like where road salt was on the car.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
And I'll send you the pictures. If you imagine or
your your just your four fingers, not your thumb, and
if you're reaching out with your left hand and these marks,

(01:08:31):
it looks like the pinky finger and the ring finger
are very close together, and then the other two fingers
are spread out.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
From fingertip to fingertip with eight inches. And it left
a streak maybe two and a half three feet down
the side of the car. I see this, and I.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
Run back in the house and my wife, she said,
I had no color to my face. She's like, what happened.
I tell her, you know, it touched the car. And
so I go out and I take some pictures, and
then the next morning I got up and took more

(01:09:22):
in daylight. But I will send you those pictures. This
thing did touch my vehicle, and the vehicle has been
washed since then. And I noticed the other day that
there is still one stripe down to the bottom. I
don't know if I just think, get it clean enough,
but you just still see one of the finger marks

(01:09:43):
at the very base of the door. And my initial
thought was raked.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
I saw a rake, and.

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
I never saw I never saw the lower body, so
I didn't I didn't know exactly what I saw, but
I started looking into well the break for one, and
then I also started looking into what's in that area.

(01:10:22):
I didn't realize it at the time, but when I
went back and back down that road. But actually I
put it up on Google Maps, so I wanted to
drop a pin where it happened.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
I could take you to that spot. I mean, then.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
Every time I drive through there now I feel anxious.
I refused to drive that stretch of road by myself
at night. I will drive twenty miles out of the
way to avoid that area. But but then a hundred
yards of that where it happened, there was a.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
Cemetery. They started looking into the cemetery, and the local.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
Historical society doesn't know who walls buried there. The cemetery
is so old and the records are so poorly kept,
and you can't read a lot of the headstone. So
they do know that the cemetery we've been there since
probably it was seventeen hundreds, early eighteen hundreds. They have

(01:11:34):
no clues buried there, so that kind of was a
dead end. This all happened along the missis Senewa River
and that stream that I was talking about as a
tributary to the mississ Seniwa River, and I think it's

(01:11:58):
nine miles from where I had my encounter. Up the
missus Shnowa River is a Native American burial ground or
burial mound.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
So I started looking into all the different Native American
stuff happened in this area. Within roughly ten miles of
my encounter.

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
There are three different burial mounds, one of which have
you ever heard of Fritz Zummerman, Yeah, I think so.
He did the Encyclopedia of the Mounds. Yeah, for the listeners.
He he researched all these different burial mounds.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
He's the one that went on around and like cataloged
as many mountains as he could find, wasn't he correct?

Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
And he was finding them on private proper and stuff
like that. And when I say private property, like privately owned,
not not on government own land or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
And that's that's where you have that. He found like
a total of like ninety in Indiana and Ohio, this
this whole area. But I have I full disclosure, I
have not read the.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
Encyclopedia of the Mounds, but I did find an excerpt
when I searched the county that I've lived in that
pointed to that book that there was a burial mound
found in my county that had oversized.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
Remains in it. And then there's there's a pretty.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
Decently known mound I'm just south of there too, it's
well documented. The other two are not as well documented.
The one that's along the river actually is desecrated because
it has a English burial or English graveyard on top
of it. And I wanted to go see that, but

(01:14:03):
it's on private property and the owners do not people
to go on to the see the mold. So so yeah,
so I told my story and on TikTok my TikTok Live,
and I had a gentleman named Rod from Lodge Tales

(01:14:27):
podcasts and he is a member of the Blackfoot tribe.
He reached out to me because he heard my story.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
And asked me some questions.

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
And like I said, I could never saw lower body
this thing, and when I talked to Alan, I even
said it kind of looked like this thing was coming
up out of the ground. So Rod asked me some
questions and he said that they have a spirit called

(01:15:00):
dragging an trails full of dirt. When he described this creature,
kind of a lot like what I saw, and somebody
else contact me and say they thought I'd seen a melusa.
When I first looked into the melusa, it kind of
fit because one of the things that the melusa does

(01:15:24):
is gives you the feeling of overwhelming sorrow and fear.
That is basically what I felt.

Speaker 2 (01:15:37):
That night seeing this thing.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
You know, I was afraid and I was crying, and
even now, you know, just just talking about it, you know,
I see the space and circling back. You know, the

(01:15:59):
more I look in two of them, more I or
other Rake encounters. You know, when when I when I
was thinking of the rake, I was thinking of this
emaciated skinny you know, I don't know what you want
to call it, a pale crawler, that's the other term

(01:16:19):
for it, but you know, just this emaciated person. But
then I started hearing other encounters where it talk about
ones that are a little beefier and muscular. And you know,
after it's been what eight months now, I've kind of

(01:16:41):
come back full circle, and I do believe what I
saw that night was a rake.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
I'm trying to think about how to unpack this. There's
a lot there. Yeah, you already answered my first question,
which was what emotions did you feel whenever you saw
this thing?

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
And not only when I first saw it, like even
retelling it, you know, I actually did pretty decent retelling
at this time. There there's been I've told my story
on a couple other shows.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
And.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
I did have to take a break telling it. But
then even now, you know, I go down that road
maybe twice a month to go back home and visit
family and stuff like that. And uh, like I said,
I I for the first couple of months, I would

(01:17:41):
white knuckle the steering wheel driving down that road because
of the anxiety and the I could just feel my
heart pounding in my chest and my neck. And I
even now I will not drive down that road by myself.
And I and I don't even know every time I'm

(01:18:01):
afraid I'm going to see it again, or if it's
that if I did see it again, I don't think
I could tell anybody.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
Because.

Speaker 1 (01:18:16):
It's crazy enough that I've that I saw it the
first time, and if I said I saw it again,
nobody's gonna believe me, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
And that's a horrible feeling. Unfortunately, that doesn't prevent it
from happening. I'm not saying it will happen. I mean,
the odds of seeing something like that are already astronomicals
seeing something like that twice. I don't know. If that
were to happen, then there's something at play here that's

(01:18:50):
far beyond just a sighting of something.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
Have you?

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
Have you noticed any strange or paranormal stuff happening around
you since that siding? That has been the last thing
that's that's happened to me. Friend of mine, I mean,
you know how it is you you mean a lot
of podcasters, but uh, another podcaster friend of mine. He

(01:19:16):
he brought up, you know, the whole quote from nietzschee.

Speaker 1 (01:19:21):
You know, and sometimes when you stare into the abyss,
the abyss stares back, and it does. It does seem
odd that this would happen. After I started taking people's
encounters right and listening to other people, and like, I
kind of, you know, when it first happened, I kind

(01:19:44):
of thought, maybe maybe this is the the other side
or the paranormal saying hey, you know, we see you
looking at us, you know, maybe maybe trying to scare
me from continuing down this path. If anything, it made

(01:20:06):
me want to look into it more so I don't know.
I mean that was just a thought that I had.
You know, maybe there is more at play.

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
So whenever it comes to the the rake, quote unquote
the rake. So there's the internet lore of the rake,
where it was just a fictional thing that was created
on a website. However, historically people see these hairless, grayish

(01:20:41):
colored humanoid looking things like what you're describing, and we've
applied the name rake and pell crawler to it to
try and give it a name whenever we're talking about it.
So that's what we're talking about. Right.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
You do find references to this, especially in Appalachia, right,
you know that it just it has it's a repackaging
as being called the rake.

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
But you know, but when when you redid.

Speaker 1 (01:21:09):
Read the descriptions of the rake other than me not
seeing the lower body. And I want to stress this too,
I don't know that if I just couldn't see the
lower body, like maybe it was dragging it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
Right, and I never saw legs? How tall was its
head in comparison to your vehicle whenever you drove by it?

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
Okay, So we were driving a two thousand and five
Exterra at the time, and as I drove by it's
the top of its head was above the hood, so
just from the top of the head, the upper body
would have been.

Speaker 2 (01:21:53):
I don't know, what is that four feet Yeah, the
head would have probably been around the four foot mark
terrace at pretty high too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
Yeah, we'd only taken that vehicle because because it has
a lot of storage space for the Christmas presents we
were buying.

Speaker 2 (01:22:11):
And then you saw the marks on the vehicle, and
I'm sure that was a stomach dropping moment for you,
But that's also a telltale sign that whatever it was
was physical in nature, right, And that's that's the other
thing that I go back to a lot. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
Some people have asked me, you know actually it was
out on and said something about do you think it
was like a ghoul or or you know, something along
those lines. To me, the goal is more more like
a ghost. To me, I don't think that it would

(01:22:55):
leave leave those marks, you know, unless it's a very physical,
physical creature, you know, not not something just being of energy.

Speaker 2 (01:23:09):
I don't know. Okay, hear me out. This is this
is just something that I've been working on for a while.
This is gonna sound pretty crazy, but we're already talking
about crazy stuff. So it's fine. Whenever you think about babies,

(01:23:31):
you know, you've basically got a smaller human here, and
it's got you know, a proportionately larger head and larger
eyes and everything. So whenever people describe what you're talking about,
and you're not the first person, like you're the first
person that I've talked to that specifically pointed out something

(01:23:51):
about the eyes just kind of being black voids and
only seeing it from like the torso up, not seeing
any legs or anything. But I noticed that a lot
of these physical characteristics are extremely similar other than size
and head proportion, to the subject of the Dover Demon case.

Speaker 1 (01:24:18):
Right, And you know, technically, like what i've what I
read about the Dover Demon, it does kind of fall
into this this pale crawler or rake category again, just
it's it's just a different name. I mean, you're talking
about this spindly creature. It's all white. I do agree

(01:24:40):
with you. I think that they said the head was
a little a little bigger compared to the body. Yeah,
I could be wrong, but this thing that I saw
was very proportional. The only thing that was weird.

Speaker 2 (01:24:54):
About the head was where on the lower part of.

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
The face, that's what you want to call it. It
was kind of elongated, but not so if you imagine
a guy with goatee, you know, just just slightly longer
at the bottom than than if it was just a skull.

(01:25:28):
But then but then again, there was there was nothing
where the mouth of the nose should be.

Speaker 2 (01:25:32):
So what are your thoughts on it being alien related?

Speaker 1 (01:25:40):
Let's ask that question too. The the eyes were not
the almond shape that you hear about with uh.

Speaker 2 (01:25:50):
Grays.

Speaker 1 (01:25:51):
They they literally looked like the sockets of a skull,
like a human skull. I mean, honestly, in things on
the table, it could be anything.

Speaker 2 (01:26:01):
Web I just find in these type situations and circumstances,
I just usually whenever I'm talking to a witness, I
allow them to lead with their own feelings on it
because they're the ones who saw it and process the information.

(01:26:21):
I realize it's all speculation, and we certainly have no
idea what it is that you saw that night, But
you're still the best person to tell us. You know,
I've been doing this stuff for a very long time now.
I've been around the paranormal stuff my entire life. Not

(01:26:45):
by choice. It just worked out that way. But still
to this day, all I know is that I don't
know anything about anything. There are no experts in this field.
People want to claim that title or not, there are
no experts in this field. I mean all the questions
that people you know, would ask, you know, what was

(01:27:09):
it doing in the road, why that location? Why you
what about the other vehicle? You know, all those things
like we there's no way to know the answers to any.

Speaker 1 (01:27:17):
Of that, right And and looking back is like I
never saw I never saw that vehicle in front of
me hit its brakes or swerve or anything. So it's
almost like it wasn't there when they went by. Yeah,
so I don't know if it came out into the
road between me and the vehicle in front of me

(01:27:38):
or I mean, and the other thing when I say
it appears in the road, it could have. It could
have just been that, you know, this thing, is this this.

Speaker 2 (01:27:52):
Cigarette ash gray? That's that's the best I come up with.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
And maybe I had just it registered because it's gray,
the road's gray, and now all of a sudden it
registers in my mind. So it's so maybe it in
my mind it appeared.

Speaker 2 (01:28:10):
But you know, I don't know. I don't know, but
it was not that star oled sensation, like he specifically
referenced deer out in the country. Like, it wasn't something
that you saw a movement where it's like entering the
roadway in front of you or anything like that.

Speaker 1 (01:28:27):
It's just now it's there, right right, and it was
looking to its right like it like if so, it's
on the center line, body facing towards me. And initially
it was like it was looking to its right, like
maybe there was something in the ditch or something that
it was looking at. And then as I got closer,

(01:28:50):
it turned and looked at me.

Speaker 2 (01:28:53):
If it had eyes. I don't know. The guy that
hooked us up, Brandon of the Tinfoil tells pot you
know obviously I've yeah, he's my boy. He has an
amazing story from Indiana in the same general area kind of.

(01:29:17):
And there's a lot of weird stuff that goes along
that river for whatever reason, and a lot of that stuff,
like what you're talking about and what Brandon experienced, is
stuff that seems to overlap different categories. Where you've got
something that sounds like clearly a physical being that touched

(01:29:39):
your car, you know its head was turned looking towards
something or whatever. But at the same time, there's a
lot of paranormal aspects. How all you know is it
was just there. You didn't really see it enter the roadway.
The other car didn't seem to really respond to it
or anything, didn't even hit its rakes. Uh. Things can't

(01:30:04):
survive without a mouth and a nose. See, that's not
how things on this planet work.

Speaker 1 (01:30:10):
You know, when Rod contacted me about the dragging intils
full of dirt, and then I don't know why I
skip this part when he's describing the creature, this creature
that he's talking about actually as like a probiscus for mouth,

(01:30:32):
like a like a fly. Yeah, and and their and
their stories. The the creature eats unborn babies in the womb.

Speaker 2 (01:30:42):
Oh jeez, what a horrible creature.

Speaker 1 (01:30:48):
Well, it gets it gets weirder. It gets weirder because
I had somebody from the Philippines come on my show
on TikTok and they were talking about a creature called
the tick tick. And the tick tick is a half
bodied creature that eats unborn babies in the loom. And

(01:31:08):
this isn't the Philippines. Wow, And the Blackfoot have a
creature that does the exact same thing. So that makes
you think, you know, these these cultures, they they never met, right,
but they have it'sically the same creature. The only difference

(01:31:29):
is the tick tick lies. It has wings, but every
other detail about it is the exact same, even the
entrails coming out of it. The tick tick has its
entriols coming hanging out from it as it flies, So
that you know, you gotta you gotta think, how would
how would somebody come up with that exact same creature

(01:31:50):
thousands and thousands of miles apart.

Speaker 2 (01:31:53):
I don't know, is it real? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:31:56):
It just it just seemed very odd to me that
two people would have two different creatures that basically resemble
each other, and they both eat unborn babies in the world.
That's just that's that's a detail that you're not going
to just randomly pick out and put with these the
same creature.

Speaker 2 (01:32:12):
Right, Absolutely terrifying. I wouldn't wish.

Speaker 1 (01:32:18):
I want to see Bigfoot, kind of want to see
dog Man.

Speaker 2 (01:32:22):
I'm not sure. I do not want to see another
one of these things. So you've heard Brandon's story, Yes,
what do you make of that? That one still has me.
That has a lot of elements to it too, from
that other dimensional to I don't know that he has.

(01:32:47):
There's a lot to unpack on his story too. I mean,
I know when especially with my podcast and my audience
and everything, but it's still the same you know, broad area.
Most people focus on on the dog man aspect of
Brandon's story, but I can't quit thinking about the first part.

Speaker 1 (01:33:10):
Knowing that the mouse, what was up with the mouse?
You know, even if that mouse was not the creature itself, Okay,
but a mouse does not come up and sit at
your feet like protect me. That's kind of the feeling
I got, Yeah, was you know, maybe maybe maybe this

(01:33:31):
this creature was licking this mouse or something, and hey,
there's some humans, maybe they can help me, you know
that That's kind of the impression I took from it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:42):
There's just so much weird stuff going on in that area,
and I have no idea why. I mean, that's probably
where I heard of that mound guy was looking into
this stuff in that you know, part of the country.
After hearing Brandon's story, and like, you know, he's working
on the documentary and everything thing, and so I've looked
into it as well, and it's like a lot of

(01:34:05):
Native American history and a lot of tragedy for sure
connected to it. And you were talking about the mounds
and everything. I think you're probably on the right.

Speaker 1 (01:34:19):
Track, which kind of leads me back to Rod's creature
because he told me that the Blackfoot tribe originally came
from a Great Lakes region, you know, and not only that,
you know, you know, there's the intermingling of the tribes.
Now you get little pieces from here and there. The
Native American lores fits all this stuff too, So I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:34:43):
Know, Well, John, where can people find your podcast?

Speaker 1 (01:34:50):
My main outlet is YouTube. That's where I focused most
of my energy. You can find me a Myths and
Mullets are Myths Monsters and Mullets on YouTube most podcast players.
If you have a paranormal encounter you'd like to share
and like to be on the show, you can email
me at Myths and Mullets at gmail dot com, buy

(01:35:12):
me on Facebook, message message me there, or just leave
a comment on one of my videos and I'll find
a way to get a hold of you.

Speaker 2 (01:35:20):
Sounds good, man. I have thoroughly enjoyed it. Man, I
am so glad Brandon hooked us up. I know it's
pretty traumatic experience that you went through, and you know
hearing it in your voice as you retell the story,
but I do appreciate it. I know my listeners appreciate it,

(01:35:41):
and I look forward to many future conversations with you.
Absolutely anytime, and if you've had an encounter with something
that shouldn't be there, email me at Bigfoot Crossroads at
gmail dot com. Check out the website Bigfootcrossroads dot com.
You can find links to social media, past episodes, marchandise,
everything you need all in one place. And until next time,

(01:36:02):
remember there's something in the woods.