Ep:182 On The Shoulders of Giants

My good friend, bigfoot researcher, and host of the Sasquatch Experience, Sean Forker, joins me to help unpack the tragic passing of the bigfoot world's top figure, Dr. Jeff Meldrum. Where does it leave the field of bigfoot research, and what does the future hold?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You know, I've got the notes here, and I don't
even know how to start. Just probably the best way
to start is, we lost doctor melt. All of us
in the Bigfoot world have literally and metaphorically been standing
on the shoulders of giants. There have been some people
that will never be replaced, absolute legends that have passed away.
We all know that we have to go sometime, you know,

(00:21):
so you have you have a little bit of time
to prepare sometimes, but then sometimes you don't. And this
was one of those situations, one of those horrible tragedies.
I mean, it was just totally unexpected.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
I was with the Small Town Monsters team filming an
upcoming project that we're working on, and I got the
notice from Seth Greenlove. He messaged Darren Jesus said, hey,
Mildred and anybody's confirmed. So I, you know, messaged Clip Garrathon.
I sent him a text message and they didn't get
back to me for a while. In fact, he didn't
get back to until after Meldourne's wife had made the

(01:29):
oast on Meldon's spacial page, and then he got old
of the Sorry man, I didn't want to be part
of the rumor mill. I just you know, I felt
it was there, you know, her right to make that
announcement to everybody. Yeah, that's that's no problem. Like I
wasn't trying to pressure get an inside scoop. I just
you know, Lauren Folman has been wrong before, right, and
I just wanted to have some you know, confirmation on

(01:50):
because honestly, a couple of weeks ago, Baker and I
were James Baker were spotforing them to come to the
Pennsylvania Bigfoot Camping Adventure, and the Tuesday before the event,
he emailed me and said, hey, guys, regrettably, I'm sorry,
I'm gonna have to pull out. Uh you know, I
hope you forgive me. Uh you know, my wife and
doctor I don't think it's a good idea if I

(02:10):
do em traveling at this point of course, it's doctor Button,
you know, I'm you know, man was definitely take care
of your elf first. He's not had the best of
years the last few years with Elf.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
And.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
You know, but to get that notification, you know, just
a couple of weeks after that, our last conversation was
just terrible because I was hoping, you know, we'd seen again.
He was supposed to be at the New York conference,
the first start with New York Big Fort Conference, and
was the keynote speaker for that. But you know, unfortunately
now that's not going to happen either. So you always

(02:43):
think you're going to have more adventures down the road,
and I hate the fact that I, you know, we're not.
And I don't want to inflate the sense of a
relationship I had with doctor Melvin. We've been at Claintan
since for many years. Besties. We didn't, you know, have
many dinners, and we didn't, you know, spend time playing chess,

(03:05):
talking about Star Trek or pontipitating about the ones of universe.
You know, we're in each other at conferences, had a
good few conversations, and you know, one of the things
he said to me the last time we talked is,
you know, I'm not great with names. He goes, but
I always remember your face, you know, talking to me,
because you're always so smiling, and you know, I'm just
you know, I try to be happy. And you know,

(03:28):
these guys we've had the fortunate privilege, especially you, and
I'm at being at this a long time to run
into these guys talk to them. Interview them so on
and so forth, and a lot of these newer people
don't they get that kind of hero worship y celebrity
feelings towards you know, whether it's Doctor Melodone, whether it's

(03:49):
Glo Barrittman. And you know, when you're trying to have
a conversation with a friend, you know, they come up
and you understand, you know what I mean, like now, listen,
this is what you do, this is what you're you know,
and you don't dig now and you just wish you
had more time. And I guess with this one, particularly
because we bake and I'm really looking forward to hanging
out with Doctor Meldrum and taking them around this that

(04:11):
weekend at the PA Champion Adventure that you know, we
missed an opportunity and unfortunately we'll never get again. And
I had a lot to talk to Himbout. You know,
there's a lot going on right now that I really
wanted to, you know, pick his brain on in a
quite races.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
So yeah, I guess I'll introduce the show. You know,
I've got the notes here, and I don't even know
how to start. Just probably the best way to start
is we lost Doctor Meldrim incredibly crappy news. You know,
there's no way to dice it besides just.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Awful.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, I mean, there's you know, there have been some
absolute legends. All of us in the Bigfoot world have
literally and metaphorically been standing on the shoulders of giants.
There have been some people that will never be replaced,

(05:07):
absolute legends that have passed away, you know, the four
horsemen of bigfoottery. We all know that we have to
go sometime, you know, so you have you have a
little bit of time to prepare sometimes, but then sometimes
you don't. And this was one of those situations, one
of those horrible tragedies where I mean it was just

(05:31):
totally unexpected.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Well, listen, you know you made a good point where
you just said, you know, we stood on the shoulders
of giants, and you know, you talk about people's contributions,
and are there folks that have had a larger contribution
than know them? No, right, I mean, you know, academically,
you at least seemed to be more in a position

(05:57):
of respect and afforded in Grover Crans. He wasn't. And
for the love of God, the man was not catankerous.
You know, No, I don't think I've seen a single
picture of him in the last seventy two hours of
anything but a smile, And you know that's telling to
the kind of person who was. But you know, yeah,

(06:20):
you have your greens and independence, and we all know
I'm partial to John Green. But when we talk about
a total you know, body of work, you know, arguably,
when you look at that impressive collection of caps and
that he's brought other people and willingly to go over
and talk and share his theory, who's done more than Meldrum?

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Well, I mean just due to the circumstance of the times,
you know, the way of the times where Bigfoot is
sort of mainstream at this point. You have various TV
shows that feature stories on Bigfoot. He's written books, he
has been the keynote speaker at countless Bigfoot conferences and conventions.

(07:04):
I mean, he was the face of Bigfoot, and he
was an active, legitimate scientist that just brought tremendous amounts
of credibility to the bigfoot world where we had none
prior to him.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
The conversation's already starting at who's the next There.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Is no next me, No, no, of course, Now.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Jeff Mildern's Jeff Meldon, there's there's people that can set
in and I think I saw Amy Boo say it earlier.
They you know, good friend mining you any from Project
Zoo book that no one's gonna fill his shoes, but
we're ready to step up and take the walk or
something along them, you know.

Speaker 4 (07:42):
Yeah, And that's unrespectable, and god, you know you're thinking
about some of these things people have said, you know,
like I had a little bit of a public notedown
about it yesterday, and you know, I don't really do
that often, but some of the disrespectful things.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
It was Mariah May yesterday. Uh, you know what that
beautiful post and just that takeaway that she said with uh,
I just want to find it because it was really
just a just a sentiment on it of what she said.
Science does not advance because someone leaves the room, and

(08:19):
advances because evidence enters it. And I just need beat
chills just reading that yesterday, and like, because how appropriate
you know from this conversation. You know, just because doctor
Mildrin's not here doesn't mean his work isn't and doesn't
mean we stopped going for you know, the working's left

(08:40):
us with the evidence. He's left us with the theory
he's left us with. You know, that's a great foundation
to really grab and move forward. But and that's just
you know, to me for words, you know, as a primatologist,
and somebody who would be considered a fear with doctor
melverm you know that was and somebody else who's taking
us that into that direction. Of course, you knows, she's

(09:02):
got her own critics with the TV show and the
fact that she happens to be a knockout. You know,
she might be you know, prettier of doctor Melvin, but
you know it doesn't hold any less weight than doctor
notthan right, you know, And so I'm interested to see
where the mantle goes. And of course you have doctor
Estevan Serni Antoko's jewling his own thing, and Armie Orchid,
who's you know, jumping in new to this. But then

(09:26):
also we assume that the person that that would be
the natural successor to doctor Meldrim would be a doctor,
would be a scientist, and that doesn't have to be the.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Case, right, And and I wanted to make note of
this because I've seen a lot of people mention this
doctor Meldrim was not the only scientist in the Bigfoot world.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
No, we got We got quite a few, actually, and
there's some that are working behind the scenes that don't
want the notorioting. They don't want to be known if
they're looking into it. Because there's still Matt you know
as well as I do. There's still people that there's
a big stigma attached to it.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
Oh for sure. So here's the way that that stigma
works in my eyes, this is how it differs. At
one point in time, if you brought up Bigfoot, it
was just ridiculous. You were ridiculed, you know, made fun of,
laughed out of town.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
And that was just for us. That wasn't even for scientists.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Right now, it's to the point where that stigma is
gone to an extent, it's okay to talk about it.
But if you cross over into that line of well, yes,
I believe it exists, then that stigma is still there.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
I think totally. You're you're one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
I wanted to ask you this, you know, just because
of us being a couple of old farts in the
Bigfoot world. Unfortunately, with that comes you know, losing a
lot of people, and you know, we've talked about it,
we have lost some absolute legends that we have been there,

(11:11):
you know, so to speak during their timing of passing.
Have you ever seen anybody have such a large impact
with their passing as doctor Meldrim did.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Oh god, well again we talk about the timing, right,
it's a lot harder because of you know the popularity
of Facebook and social media. Now, you know, how would
this have been as well? I guess John Jean was
still social media. We were still rather new to it
when John Green passed away, I think, But no, honestly,

(11:46):
doctor Bindernaugo passed away a few years back, and I
don't remember it being as you felt. Well, he passed away,
but I don't remember in twenty four hours, you know,
all tribute shows and you know, here we are days
later and the dialogue has not stopped, right.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
I don't know if it has to. I mean like
letting you know, we don't have to go into details.
Everybody knows September has been a shit month. You know,
There's been a lot going on. So I wonder if
that has had an effect on this where like it
just hit home with a lot of people. But I've

(12:25):
sean I received emails from complete strangers, just listeners and
followers on the internet letting me know of his passing.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Right, well, listen, whether it's Facebook posts, you know, I've
had my I'm looking at my own social media engagement.
My posts have been three to four times as popular
in the last several days, and they have been all year. Yeah,
especially my posts about mill of them. And again, you know,
and I say this, you know specifically, and more than
anybody probably besides Baker, how sensitive I am about propriety

(12:56):
and how how one act is very impactful to how
they're perceived. And for me, I'm not the person and
it's a it comes from a place of gene, you know,
a genuine place. I'm not the person that's going to
jump on and say, oh, hey, we have to do
a malbim episode right now. In fact, I talk to
you about it. I don't know how or when we're
going to do one. Too many people will use this

(13:20):
as an opportunity to try to jump off or do
something for themselves, and that's not right. And I don't
want to be clickbait on doctor Mildram's memory. You know.
If I'm going to do something for him, I want
it to be the same way our relationship was professional yeah,
you know, I wanted to be professional and you know,
but have I had a hard time with it? Yeah,

(13:42):
And I think it's because of what you said. There's
a hell of a lot going on and just you know,
that's not even the personal things going on in our works.
You know, it's been a tough month. And then you
go back to my Facebook post that day, it's like,
you know, day two, and I have no words to
describe how I feel. And I still really don't know

(14:02):
how I feel about it. It's tragic, but there's so
much of a mess going on upstairs that you know,
how do we sort through this and how do we
process it? You know, we lost probably our biggest advocate
of our time, oh for sure. And I'm not scrambling

(14:23):
to fight anybody to pick up the baton and run
with it.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Well, I told you, and this is the reason that
it's impacted me so much. I wasn't close to Meldrum
by any means. I've talked to him a few times
over the years, but you know, I wouldn't have ever
considered him a friend or even an acquaintance, just someone
that shares a common interest with me. Mostly However, like

(14:52):
I told you, I was completely out of the loop.
I didn't even know the man was in bad health.
I knew, you know, he had the heart attack incident
on the cruise ship a while back, but other than that,
I had no clue. So whenever this was announced that

(15:12):
he had passed away, and not only passed away, but
passed away due to brain cancer, it just it just
floored me. It just absolutely shocked me.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
I had no idea. And you know, you're talking to
somebody who was having conversations with him a couple of
weeks ago. Yeah, you know, he had said he was
having health issues and described some of the issues that
he had had, and but at no point when he
did that that he mentioned brain cancer to mean, nor
should he have to. And I'm and I don't want people.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
That, No, no, not at all.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
You know, processing going to take time. And everybody I
was with that day, you know, we all had a
job to do, and you know, we all decided that,
you know what, we gotta buck down, we gotta do
the work, and you know, if we feel, we feel,
and I think in a way, doctor Meldren would have
liked that, you know, because we kept the work going

(16:08):
and managed to go through it. And I'm not trying
to emanticize and sensationalize anything, but you know, he really
believed in what he was doing. And as again I
go back and tell you these interviews, honest to god
in that the best interview I seen with doctor Meldrum

(16:29):
in years was on that interview with the Backcountry podcast.
I mean, those guys who aren't in a bigfoot had
a knockdown interview with doctor Meldrum, so professional and it
was it was wonderful like that was that was magic
and it was great to see him so relaxed and comfortable,
not on edge, you know, talking about you know what

(16:52):
he's what he's passionate about. And I know I believe
he was working on Sasquatch Legimate Science to the Companion
book for the documentary coming in. Yeah, so I don't
know where that's gonna well.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
I mean that's something you know that we talked about,
uh one on one. That's something that I actually had
a gentleman from the UK, I believe email me also
wanting to know. And I don't have any of these answers.
I know people are going to want to know, like
what happens to his work? You know the track collection

(17:29):
and the.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Well, you know, it's funny, and I think that's the
number one I think that's the number one question. I'm
I've heard her. What was wrapping dollars casts he gave
to me? Now, I had no idea. What's going wrong
with them? And they actually made you a property in
a university.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Yeah, I don't know how any of that works. I don't.
I don't know if it would be considered you know,
university property, if they'll turn it over to his family,
if his family will throw it in the trash. I
don't know. I don't have any of those answers.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
The Poe Big go to Cliff, I really do. I
hope Cliff inherits that collection, uh preserves it through the museum.

Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yeah, I would. Cliff would be my top choice in
this situation. But it was just one of those situations.
And I get I know, people always do this when
someone passes away. That's you know, that self reflection and
like you were saying, we always think we have more time,
and it just sucks. Man. His work was not done.

(18:28):
His work wasn't anywhere near done. And our work's not done,
you know, and no, no, and you never know, man,
you just never know.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
Now, you know, in the interest of fairness, you know,
when you and I are a bunch of old salty dogs.
But I just turned forward. And I've done this now
for almost thirty two years. I've been involved in this
in some way, shape or form.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
Isn't that crazy to think about?

Speaker 2 (18:56):
It is? And so when you think about these guys
jumping in at that age, you know, realistically, I've got
another like forty or fifteen years left. I mean, because look,
I'm playing I live until I'm a hundred and fifty, right,
you know, I'm going to look like Yoda's nutsack by then,
but I'm going I'm going to live them to I'm
one hundred and fifty. And you know, I play them on,
chasing this mystery until it's through. And you know, every

(19:19):
time I feel like to give up, something happens and
it motivates me to move and do more. And I
think this is one of those situations. Listen, I'll never
be a doctor month and I've said many times I'm
never going to be a chapter in the story. But
I'm glad I'm a footnote. Yeah, that's to me. The
fact that you and I both have been a part

(19:41):
of this for so long, we've earned that footnote space,
and you know, maybe one day we build enough up
to become a paragraph in someone's chapter, you know, But
Mildrem's a whole fricking book.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
So many people spend so much time trying to move
their own ball forward, and Melder moved the ball forward
for the entire community.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
Right, And that's got to go with acknowledgement. Yeah, what
you know, when we were talking about this over the weekend,
you know, you know, individual contributions and everything moved on
for the field, you know, realizing I'm not going to
be the guy that gets the picture of big film.
I'm not going to be the guy that is probably

(20:25):
going to get the best audio or anything in the world.
But what I am going to do is be the
guy that gets out there and collects dated to set
it to people like doctor Meldron so they can be
better do their work, you know, And I'm okay with that.
You know, I don't have to be the spokesperson for
a community. I don't have to be out there in

(20:46):
the forefront doing this. I'm very happy with this little
niche I've carved out for myself and to let guys
like doctor Meldron do what they do best. It's all
about knowing your own capacity and knowing your own capabilities.
And what we need to do is continuously identify those
people that can be that beacon, that can be that

(21:09):
person that sees it through to the end, and assist them,
not sabotage them, not throw them under the bust a system,
you know. And I think once we realize that we
might actually get a little further along in this research
that we've been stuck in for the last sixty years.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
Well, not everybody can be quarterback, and I'm okay with that.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Well, why do people feel like they have to be?
And there are some people that think they're a quarterback
that are on the bench and.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
You even realize, yeah, for sure, everybody thinks they're the
main character, especially whenever it comes to bigfoot stuff.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Hell man, I'm happy being the water boyd you know,
Like it's interesting. You know, I'm surprised more psychologists haven't
taken an interest in this field and just trying to
do a psychoanalysts on you know, folks with this within
the genre of scientific research, because you know what, it
is a scientific research. No matter how much people try

(22:07):
to sabotage it and make it something more spectacular or
I don't want to use the term on scene, but unbelievable.
It's still very much scientific.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
There was, you know, the age old question asked of
me numerous times over the years of playing out that scenario.
For whatever reason, however it happens you end up with
a bigfoot body, What are you going to do? And
my answer was always the same. It was always called

(22:45):
doctor Meldrum. That's the first person I'm contacting.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
It's changed a little bit now. What I've understood now
is head, hands and feet and then called doctor.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
Well now it's going to change again.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
But that's how important he was in my mind to
the bigfoot world. Whether I agreed with all of his theories,
and that's totally irrelevant, It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter
where you stand. He was that important. He was that guy.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
And you make a very good point there, because there's
a big difference between respect and idolatry, and you can
respect somebody and disagree with I mean, you know, I
people forget that doctor Norm's been wrong for sure, you know,
he was really you know, we go back to the

(23:41):
snow walker footed. Yeah, the abortion. That was the playmate video.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
Still one of my favorite Bigfoot videos, by the way.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
How about it? It's you know, we talk about all
these things, but you know he's been wrong before, and
he'll tell you that.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
He hosted a podcast with Todd standing.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
And you know what, to some that probably is gonna
mark him a little bit. You know, he's never really
disavowed himself. But he made a comment and I wrote
it down, said I wanted to ask I did. I
wanted to ask him about it. I was gonna be
with Steve Cole then doctor Melton simultaneously, and you know

(24:24):
that conversation is going to come up at some point.
I'm gonna paraphrase this, so forgive me if I'm wrong
or I'm not quoting it correctly. But my interpretation wasn't
it is that we are so anti Todd's standing about
these images of Bigfoot because we've put ourselves into this
position of what we think Bigfoot should look like. So

(24:47):
are are we really being objectives or are we really
adding a bias? And that was a fair point. That
doesn't change the fact that I don't think there's any
legitimacy in those videos, but it did make me stop
a minute and think, because again, you know what, you know,
maybe doctor Meldrum uh isn't buying everything poke, line and sinker,

(25:11):
but he's doing a good job playing devil's advocate because
you know there's always in that back pocket that what
if there's that one one hundred thousand of the percent
that Todd Standing's not lying, And you know when you
go back and and this is where I have a
lot of problems. But you know where I have a

(25:31):
problem is people listen to react. They don't listen to
observe or absorbed. So we have a lot of folks,
a lot of our friends that have been really anti
uh TODs Standing on this and really have hell Meldrum
to course of him because he also promoted another website
that was a pay site and has done bullshit before.

(25:51):
You know what, I think we've all done bullshit before.
It doesn't mean we're not giving it. That's just another
topic for another time. But we look for any reason
we can to chip away at that without listening to
a word the man said. We listen to react, we
don't listen to absorb. And in this situation, if you
really go back and listen to the words Meldrim saying

(26:14):
I think he come away from a little bit different
bit of perspective on what Melviym's trying to convey. And
that was a little that was very changing for me.
So again, you know we look at and and that's
a big deal because once again you have somebody making
these claims. I mean doctor Meldrim had his sighting with

(26:35):
uh with Todd standing. I mean he does everything but
comes up and says it in the documentary with Todd Standing.
So where do you go from that?

Speaker 1 (26:45):
I mean, that's a that is part of such a Yeah,
we're gonna have to do that episode sometimes. No, And
I'm seriously, there's several instances where people have gone out
with less than credible individuals and had encounters.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
Right me. Have the Freeman film, Yeah, the Freeman video,
all Freeman out of history? Does that mean because all
Freeman allegedly poked some craves that everything he did was
full shit and that everything he did was wrong and

(27:29):
that everything has no validity. No, does it increase the
likelihood of such absolutely? Does it change it? Absolutely not?
And I go back to the Freeman film as being
one of my favorite pieces of bigfoot footage. Now whether

(27:50):
there's picking up a baby or whatnot in that video,
I don't know. All I know is that you have
an overweight guy shruggling to breathing, and there he goes.
You know, that's pretty freaking that I saw Paul Freeman
do commercials. He's not that good of an actor.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
I've reached a point with the whole Bigfoot thing where
I can put things together in ways that I used
to not be able to. And by that I mean,
at this point, my opinion is that the Freeman footage
is authentic.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Hey, I'm with you.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
But if it's not, it takes nothing away from it.
It's still just as big of a deal in the Bigfoot.
It's as much of a part of Bigfoot history as
it's always been, and it means nothing to me at
this point.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
I was sharing my own sighting report this weekend, and
I was really into it, and I was really caught
up in the moment, and I'm talking with the Camra
crew and I'm talking with Dave and Kerry Rufford, and
I mixed my story up a little bit. You know,
I've told this story now, you know, about twenty times
games and I mixed it up a little bit. I

(29:02):
did mix it up because it's not true. I mixed
it up because here I am in the spot I
had the sighting, reenacting the encounter, and I'm excited, and
my mind is going a million miles a minute. And
I can tell you that my mind is moving faster
than the day I had my sighting. I'm just trying
to grab shit and put it together and try to
tell a compelling, you know, a compelling reenactment to the
audience at that point, right. And I even said to

(29:25):
the film course, I said, hey, listen, I said, I
screwed that up a little bit. I'm probably going to
take a lot of heat, but I don't care. It
was an honest mistake, you know. And honestly, I think
when you look at those little things like honest mistakes,
if you're not making them, then you're probably not telling
the truth.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
And we've looked at things so differently for so long
that you know, we're all in perfect people. But you know,
when it comes to somebody like doctor Meldrum, he doesn't
have that choice. He has to be perfect one hundred
percent of the time.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Right. And the more in the spotlight you are, the
more that people are looking for ways to bring you down.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Right, and so be it. If your life is that
miserable where you have to pick on bigfoot people, get
a life. Try knitting.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Yeah, I see them every day unfortunately. I mean I
assume the answer is yes. But I'm going to ask
the question anyway, because I've been wanting to ask you
this question, doctor Jeff Meldrim. Is he on your bigfoot rushmore?

Speaker 2 (30:32):
Oh? Yeah, And honestly I've had struggling with that one
because who goes on it? And I think for me
it's rather simple. It's it's definitely John Green.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
If there was no John Green, I probably wouldn't have
gotten voked. I would probably next go doctor Meldrim definitely
would do though, and then the next two I don't know,
you know, like because honestly, you could put I like

(31:11):
Peter Byrne and I liked Renee to Hinden and this
might kiss a lot of people off, but besides being
a part of that early research, what did they really do?

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Ooh?

Speaker 2 (31:26):
And at the end Renee to Hinden kind of became
a caricature.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
Yeah, I mean he was in those commercials.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
Mike would probably throw and this is here's an interesting take.
Somebody who doesn't get nearly the credit, I feel they
should Tom Seeberg. Okay, I would probably throw Steinberg on there.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
It's not easy.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
No, it's not because you think it would be. And
actually I hadn't turn around and look at my bookshelves
because you know, maybe somebody else that's on here isn't
even an offing, you know. But uh, you know, if
he keeps writing books like the phenomenal sash Watch, Matt
Grew might be on here one day. You know, that
book was good. Uh, but you know what, The Evolution

(32:15):
was good too, by Max Brooks. Uh, you know. And honestly,
I think maybe for you know, I really don't know. Actually,
you know what, probably somebody else who would go on
there that's done an awful lot for categorizing Bigfoot. And
actually I say they've done more than a lot of
folks that have contributed to the field. Maybe Daniel Perez.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Oh I was going to say, this isn't about me, Sean.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Well, you you know you're you're on my special mountain.
You and I are on Mount stink form. Yeah, you know,
but yeah, maybe Daniel Perez. Oddly enough, I know a
lot of people probably wouldn't consider him. But think about
he's dunned, he's done field work. But this this bidfoot
Times has been around forever, still going right, And you

(33:05):
know what, you could also make the argument maybe for
Joe Bilhart, you know who's been out on the Pacific
coast forever doing research. I know a lot of people
would say Grover France, but I didn't connect that well
with France. And this is my list. You know, I
found him to big rumpying, a cromudgeon. I didn't find
him to be very endeared.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
I mean, I'll say this much. I agree with Meldrum
in Green and beyond that, I'm not sure anybody else
has earned a spot. Right.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
It's hard because you know what, you take the emotions
away from every film. You know, we want to go
back to the original full horsemen, Patterson and Gimblon. You know,
ladies and gentlemen, there's a chance Patterson in Gimblin have
told the biggest hopes for the last sixty years. There's
always a chance aside from that film, what have they gone?

Speaker 1 (33:57):
And here's my hot take on that. If it is
ever revealed that the Patterson film is a hoax, my
reaction is going to be good. That's amazing. That that
is absolutely amazing. Yeah, like moving on, we can put
a knell in it. Good deal. Finally an answer.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
I can't wait to see the comments on this. So
people think about that with the well seriously with the
And it's because Matt has that something I thought about
to you've asked you that question.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
Like I met bender Nagel in Texas, and uh, I
like John bender Nagel. I thought he was a great person,
very nice guy, a brilliant mind. Did he do anything
for Bigfoot?

Speaker 2 (34:44):
You know, he wrote, he wrote a couple of good books.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Right, he had an interest. I mean, lots of people
have written Bigfoot books.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
I'm writing one. I'm never going to be at a
Mount Rushmore.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
I mean it's still early.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Well listen, I'm young and I'm full of charisma. But
at the same time, we know that there are some
very deserving people out there. And you know, maybe the
fact everything is you just can't think of everybody right now?
Oh for sure, you know, because I'm sure everybody's doing
what about what about Richard Greenwell? What about uh?

Speaker 1 (35:19):
You know?

Speaker 2 (35:19):
So and so you know, I'm well, what about him?
You know? Right, Well, you know, he had a lot
of money, but what else did he do?

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (35:29):
And these things sound harsh, because what did you do? Well? Honestly,
I've been war impactful than Tom Slick.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
I funded different endeavors. I funded conferences, I funded speakers.
You know, if that's your only claim to fame, then
you know what. Robert W. Morgan is another name people
could throw up there, but he goes on to the
crazy edge. You know, I love Robert W. Morgan.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
I mean, we're both aware. I'm not going to say
his name because I just don't feel comfortable saying it.
But I mean, we know of a very wealthy benefactor
that's funded millions of dollars in the Bigfoot, funded the
entire BFRO, funded the Olympic project. I mean, the list
goes on and on.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
But what has he gone besides give the money? Yeah,
you know, and I'm not I'm not minimizing that contribution
because that's pretty pretty rad that he's had the ability
of the money. Absolutely absolutely, But but this is a
mount rushmore research.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
Whenever it comes down to brass tacks, even the greatest
names in Bigfoot history haven't done that much.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
No, not, no, and you got to look at we
make them. You know, they're the flour forcemen because they
were kind of the pioneers, right, but comparative to today
and all the work that's been done since then, where
do you go? And that's that's really hard. So you
don't know what you know, from an entertainment perspective, you

(37:03):
could throw a lot of other names on there. You know.
You know, if we go to a kid right now
and we went to a god, I think about myself.
I go to a fourteen year old kid right now
that has an interest of Bigfoot, do you think they're
Mount rushing Worth going to look a lot different than.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Our Oh for sure. Do you think both.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Berrickman and Bobo are going to be on that list?

Speaker 1 (37:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Right? And that's nothing, you know to say nothing against
those guys. You know, I love the book dearly, but
that's you know, that's also a sign of the time.
So again, you and I fall into that too, because
we're a you know, we could almost say second generation squatchers,
right yeah, in this generation almost second generation, and so

(37:48):
we weren't around to have that initial In fact, you know, really,
when I don't think about it, I think of guys like, yeah,
we've got the Greens, we've got the Meldrums, But then
I also think about the tom Steinburns and and individuals
like that. So you know, people's mirleage is going to vary.
You know, everybody does this with things like professional wrestlers
think it's a very great mental exercise. Man. Yeah, stead

(38:11):
I create a lot of controversy. I'm preparing my hate
mail now.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
So well, something that we talked about a little bit earlier,
and other people have commented Meldrim has created this void
with his passing. Is it one that will be filled?
Do we need to fill it? How do we kind
of move forward from this point?

Speaker 2 (38:34):
You know, I had a question that somebody asked me
over the weekend, and I'll answer your question with this
question because they're kind of similar. Is somebody asked me,
did Meldrim have a proteget for a student that he
was fostering along with this? I can't answer that question.
I don't know, I don't I'm not aware, right the

(38:54):
only person that I considered would be a student of Meldrum,
and I don't know what they would agree or even
if though, what would be yes? And so do I
think and nobody's gonna fill his void, right. I think
people need to carry on his work, and I think
it's very important that we do so, But we have

(39:16):
to really figure out what that work was. Where was
his work going? You can only look at feet for
so long. Where was his work going? And I guess
that's a question I never got to ask him. You know,
you've done a good job in this foot morphology and
the gate and all that stuff. Where were you going
with this work? What was next to you? I know
you're working with Darby Orchid and I know you were

(39:38):
you know, he was going to you know, starting to
get a little bit more into the e DNA. Where
were you headed next or this? And I can't ask
him that question? And you know, maybe that's a question
you're worth asking asking, Cliff is if we could find

(39:59):
out where Meldrum was help, you know, heading with this,
can we get a jump start and move forward?

Speaker 1 (40:04):
I mean, that's the thing. It was something that again
possibly I'm just out of the loop. However, I don't
know of anybody that was necessarily close with Meldrum. Lots
of people knew him, lots of colleagues, but I mean,
like everybody knows you and Baker for instance. You know,

(40:26):
Meldrum didn't have a baker like they're.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Or did he everybody has a headlo sexual life.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
Right, but I'm I'm not aware of Meldrum's. Is is
the point? I don't I don't know. You know, I've
heard it. People mentioned, you know, several projects. Obviously legend
meet science too. You know he was working on that,
like you said earlier, but it's work. Yeah, what what
was he working on? What does his notes say on

(40:54):
his desk?

Speaker 2 (40:57):
It's honest to god, Bill, look at it this way.
This has worked for us. Can you still hear it?

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Yeah, this has worked for us too. He didn't do
this as a full time occupation. You know, he was
a professor. You know, he was teaching. He was a
full professor. This bigfoot stuff was like was worked for him.
But would you call it You can't really call it
a hobby. But this might have been what he did

(41:24):
for fun.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
This was his passion project right right right right?

Speaker 2 (41:28):
And so you know the guy's going to conferences every weekend,
you know, practically every month, every weekend, trying to get
out still do the research while wading papers and everything else.
That so if you were being the professor. He's a
busy man, and so along the way there wasn't somebody
there that he didn't foster and bring along or mentor

(41:49):
or maybe he just didn't have the time, or maybe
he thought he had more time.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Honestly, I tend to think that, however it happened, he
didn't know.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
You know, I'm with you. I agree with that a lot.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
And I'm not trying to speculate, you know, in some
morbid fascinative way or anything like that. I'm just saying, like, yeah,
I find it difficult to believe that he wouldn't have
tied up loose ends. He had commitments that he hadn't
canceled in the future, in the very near future, And

(42:30):
I just I think he was the type of person that,
you know, he would have done it quietly, but he
would have tied up those loose ends.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
You had nine kids, nine kids, And I pulled up
his CD losting just you know, just to go through it.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
I'm the University of Idaho State University's website, so you
look at his education, you know, bring him Young Zoology,
anatom and Physiology. Ver's bs's MS was Brigham Young, PhD.
At sunny Stony Brook at Atomical Sciences.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
You know he did a uh you know, you go
through look at all his clubs and everything is a
member of the Explorers Active. The demand's done a lot,
and I'm sitting here scratching my head thinking when the
hell did he have the time? Yeah, well, all the
stuff he probably never talked about, it's all right here

(43:28):
in the CV that I think we should all get
a copy of before it, you know, it does come down.
It's good. This is better than most biographies we had
on doctor Melting.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
So here's the million dollar question. Is Bigfoot research a
lost cause?

Speaker 2 (43:46):
Every time I think yes, something happens that makes me
change my mind, and I think, what's going to happen?
That is that people are going to get burned out
of Bigfoot like they always do. And once again, this
field's going to constrict, and it's going to go from
the thousands of interested people out of the few of

(44:06):
us again that were really passionate about it. And as
the popularity ended.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Flows.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
Well the research and the research field. And when that constricts,
that's where the opportunity arises again for the real work
to get done. If we the sooner we could get
these Red Circle Warriors out the better. Yeah, and that's
that's what I think. I don't think we're a total loss,
cause I just think selection needs to step up again.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
So I sent you some notes of kind of what
I wanted to go over during this episode. And I
don't know if this one particular aspect translated over well,
but during our time here as like you said, the
kind of the second and generation of Bigfoot researcher. When

(45:03):
we started out, the entire Bigfoot community was comprised of
Bigfoot researchers.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
Yeah, there were no real enthusiasts and television stars or
anything else.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
And then you had Finding Bigfoot, and Finding Bigfoot brought
in a fluctuation, a huge wave of Bigfoot enthusiasts, people
that were interested because they saw it on TV. From there,
I have us going to the community was mostly comprised

(45:37):
of what I call believers, people who you know, you
had the enthusiasts who came in to see, hey, I
saw this on finding Bigfoot. It's entertaining. Is there something
to it? Is this for real? And wanting to learn
more about it? But the believers, they just believe, and
they're the ones who kind of started just coming in

(46:00):
and saying, oh, yeah, Bigfoot's real, and you know they
do all this stuff. We don't have to get into it.
We've been over it before. You mentioned the Red Circle
Warriors already, right, and.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
You know, I have no other definition for them aside
from that.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
It's no longer a clear division like it used to be.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
Right, And you know, there's nothing wrong with being a
leaver a believer. There's everything wrong with being a believer
not being objected.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Right, And I guess I kind of get it. I mean,
there's you know, there's people that are just really passionate
about the subject. But then you also have people who,
for whatever reason, they can't get out into the field,
but they still want to contribute, you know, and I
see them. You know, there's literally you could probably put

(46:53):
them in the whole little category of their own. There's
people who go on the Internet and go on to
like Google Earth and just look for Bigfoot on there
in the satellite imagery. And now I believe we are
in the time of the entertainer. I believe bigfoot research

(47:14):
has completely gone over into the world of entertainment unfortunately.
But I'm part of it. You're part of it.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
You know, I was gonna say, but did you and
I naturally evolve into that because we had to? Yeah,
for sure, we like I and are we partially kind
of responsible for that since we were podcasters And look,
we're not podcasters, we're ogs. Man.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Well, that's what I try to explain to everybody. Bigfoot
podcasting was around before podcasting, this was already happening.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
And when you think about it, you could go back
to even more primitive when we were meeting together in
Yahun chat rooms and on pal talk having voice conversations.
So there's always a little ambiguity as to the beginning
of Sasquatch experience. You know, my podcast, because if you
ask Henry, yeah, we can say our first episode was it.
But we were doing that chat room conversations for years.

(48:10):
We were listening to podcasts and radio shows and having conversations. Yeah,
you know, one person would play it, the rest of
us would sit there and talk about it while we're listening.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
And now the field is led by people with YouTube
channels and doing their own podcast. Everybody has a podcast.
I'm kind of reluctant to use the word podcast because
most of them are not actual podcasts. They just you know,
do a live video call on YouTube or whatever and

(48:42):
have a logo or what. Fine, it's fine.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
It's funny because I struggled with what to call it anymore,
you know, because yeah, we still put it out as
a podcast. We're very much a live stream, you know.
And again you go back, just because someone can do
a thing doesn't mean they should do with right. And
context is key and content is key. And I struggle

(49:09):
with the fact that the world is broken down into
catchphrases and buzzwords and books, and people see the sensationalism
and that's where they go for information.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
If somebody has a high subscriber account or a high
follower account, people will automatically listen to them. They will
automatically subscribe and follow that person because the high of mind.
If so many people do it, then this person must
be telling the truth. I should be listening to them too,
And that's not always the case whenever it comes to

(49:48):
this subject matter. Those numbers really don't mean much in
terms of knowledge or experience.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
You asked a secondary question to this as well, as
does anyone care? Yeah, and that's a great question. We care.
We wouldn't be talking about it and I think there
are people that do care and are trying to put
something on to keep it going and to keep the
research alive. But I think we have to get that

(50:20):
mindset change from this being entertainment to this being science.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
Well, I think that's where the shift happens. In my mind,
at least I hope it is. Which who knows what
that will mean for me in the future, but I
think this is the cycle. I think after the entertainment
cycle wears out, it will circle back around to researchers again.
That's my hope, at least.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
I hate to keep saying it, but I think you're
spot on in some instances in this.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
And whenever it comes to does anyone care? I mean,
of course we care, but to the general public, does
any of it really matter?

Speaker 2 (51:01):
And once every couple of weeks, you know, I had
that conversation of why do we give shit anymore? Nobody
else seems to, Yeah, you know, why do we care
about having any kind of integrity or you know, anything
when nobody else seems to anymore? And God, there's just
so much revisionist history and and narrative changing and flip

(51:23):
flopping and all the stuff that goes on it's just
hard to understand where the information comes from, this good information,
who they need to follow, why you need to follow them,
And you know, hopefully, folks, you know, I still cling
on to the hope that common sense prevails. And I

(51:44):
know that's probably a giant fallacy, but I feel common
sense prevailed at the end that one day we wake
up from this mass hysteria and people like I'm seeing
the light and move on into where we need to
be and the everybody else just goes away.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
I can tell you something on my list of items
that bothers me greatly currently is artificial intelligence.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
Well, it's not that intelligent.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
No, it's not. The problem is AI does not make
you more knowledgeable. True, and I see not only people
being duped by videos and images, but I also see
a lot of our colleagues and peers now using AI

(52:41):
to produce their own content and to try and be
something that they're not that they don't have the knowledge
base to be.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
Again. Capacity, you heard me saying earlier, Know your capacity,
know your capabilities, and stay in the lane.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
Yeah. I think it's going to cause a lot more
problems on down the line.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
I'm not going to be teaching anatomy and physiology. I mean,
I've told enough people to kiss my ass where I
feel like I know enough about anatomy. But but you know,
in all honesty, I'm not going to be, you know,
teaching that. And I didn't get my degree on copilot
dot com.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
You know.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
And if you don't know the material, you don't know
if what the AI is telling you is correct or
not right. And then you just put it out there
and it's like, Okay, well you know last week you
were writing at an eighth grade level and this week
you're putting out technical scientific journals.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
Right, And that's not how that works. Please, by all
means again, I go back to the fact I'm writing
a book. And what I want you to get from
this book when you read it is that you no
it was written by me. That you get my spirit,
you get my voice, you get my humor. Like when
you read it, I want you to say, you know
what Porker wrote this. You're not going to get that

(54:08):
from AI. You know. One of the things I'm really
fussy about is that the story's told in my voice.
So yeah, there may be some drammatic errors in there.
I'm not the most drammatically correct person. I want you
to be able to when you're sitting down and reading
that book, you're hearing it in my voice. And that's,
like I said, that's a style choice, meth that I'm choosing,

(54:29):
and I know that might impact some of the reviews.
You know, listen, I'm know Matt Brewitt when it comes
to words intelligence, I'm an average guy. I can tell
a good story. I'm pretty entertaining, and I got a
lot of stories to tell, and I want you to
enjoy it. And if I really wanted to speed this up,

(54:49):
i'd have used AI by then.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Well, I think authenticity means something, and I think a
lot of other people mean thinks that too, you.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Know, right, And and that's what I want. I want
it to be authentic. And you know, I'm just saying
that not to do a shameless promotion of something I'm
doing down the road, which you know I'm always game
to do. But you can write books and moments and
just over the weekend I've had some conversation and you
could tell people that have wrote entire books with AI. Yeah,

(55:19):
that's not authorship, that's not writing. There's no purity there,
there's no spirit it's a machine that wrote this. It's
not going to pick up your voice. It's not going
to pick up your canes and context. It's only as
smart as you make it.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
And it's not going to go out there and find Bigfoot.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
No, you have to get off your ass and go
do it. And I realized that this weekend and just
a complete moment of humility that I'll share with you
and you know, with you, and I shared with some others.
I was talking to David Rupert, a good friend of
mine who's been a researcher at Pennsylvania for a long time.

(56:00):
Him and his wife are dear friends, and I said, Dave,
I was starting to feel like a fraud because I
haven't spent as much time in the woods the last
year as I've wanted to. And I feel like you
can only talk about things so much, like it's one point,
when do you become the high school athlete talking about
your high school football days?

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Yeah, Paul Kai, five touchdowns one game.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
You won't think that happens in this field.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Oh, all the time.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
I don't want it to happen to me, right, So
I spent the last five days out in the woods
with good people in and out of the woods, and
it's just really gotten Matt. You know Matt Arner, and
I'm my research partner, and you've talked with Matt on
here before. It's done. This really more emboldened than in

(56:46):
passion to get out there and do And so hopefully
these little moments of inspiration we'd get more people take it,
we get out and get back to doing the field
research and having fun talking about there's a credibility that
comes from that that you don't get. And then again,
I don't want to turn this field to field versus

(57:08):
armchair because there's so much the proverbial armchair researcher has
to offer. And let's be honest, Matt, some people can't
get into the field anymore. Does that make them any
less valuable?

Speaker 1 (57:17):
I'm one of them, right that Does it make you.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Any less valuable to me? I could pull up I
could call you at a moment's notice and say, hey,
I got some shit going on. What can you tell
me about this location in the next fifteen minutes. You
could pull stuff up from me I couldn't get on
my own, you know, or you've have connections.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Here's the deal, and this goes back to where we
started talking about Meldrum. You only have so many more
trips out into the field, and you don't know which
ones your last, dude, So true, I didn't know my
last field trip was it. You know, I had no
idea like this was the last time I was ever
going to be out in the woods. It sneaks up

(57:57):
on you.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
You know, I've got Line's disease. Now, you know, I'm
one bad day from who knows, untreated for a long time.
Apparently I was dumb, but you know, these things happen
to us when you wouldn't you do this? It's you know,
risk you take and you know we don't know. And
as we've seen, you know, the next you know, I

(58:20):
think back to you know, another passing that was effective
to me was they'll bring in us. Absolutely another guy
I really looked up to and held the highest theme
and I didn't realize. You know, you always think you
have more time left with these kids, you really do,
and you always you don't know. So maybe there's a
lesson there is. Don't take it for granted and enjoy it.

(58:41):
Why you can immerse yourself with it, love it, and
if it's your passion, develop it. As your passion and
work towards it, don't let it limit you.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
That's kind of how I feel about it at this point.
You know, whenever it comes to does anyone care? Does
it matter? You know, how much of an impact will
we actually have? Whenever it's all said and done with,
I honestly just think we're damn lucky that we got
to be part of it.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
Word, I one hundred percent agree with lat I'm saying
that again because it's a privilege, you know, to saying that.

Speaker 5 (59:24):
We've got to walk on the shoulders of giants, we've
also got to walk with them, Yeah, which is pretty
especially you and I who have been fortunate to, you know,
have conversations and experiences and moments with a lot of
these guys in some.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
Way shape of them. I never thought in my life
i'd get to interview John Green, and I did, my
hero and the guy I looked forward, you know, up
to the most in bigfoot research. I never got to
meet him in person, but I got to interview him.
That was pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
So I know, you know, you've talked a little bit
about your recent trip with small town Monsters, and I
don't know what you're willing to talk about, or what
you can talk about, or what you want to talk about.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
Sure, well, I could tell you it's something different. It's
a new type of format to try. Now we're kind
of the guinea pig of test pooon, myself and Matt Arnoor.
And what you're going to do is you're going to
go on a trip with Matt and I through an
area of Pennsylvania that's been a hot spot for years.
Matt and I are going to tell you why we

(01:00:30):
think it's very underrepresented. I'm going to introduce you to
witnesses and researchers that have spent a lot of time
with it. We're going to do a little field work
and I think we're going to come up with some
things that are going to make folks go That was
really interesting, that was really cool, And you know what,
I love that Sean Forker. I want to go out
in the woods with him.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Did anything happen?

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Yeah, yeah, it did. I can't go into it because
we all agree we'll talk about it yet until we
get some more we get out of the moment, you
know what I mean. I think so much of reacting
to things is reacting in the moment. And I will
say this. One of the things I'm most proud of
about that entire team is that after this happened and

(01:01:12):
the I ran out of it, we went wait into debunkingbold.
You know, we all woke up the next morning after
a couple hours of sleeping like, Okay, that was fun,
but how could we explain this? And I think that
I think, Matt, that's what's going to make it different.
I really do, because there's a process involved with that,

(01:01:33):
and there's a very a couple very emotional moments in
there with me as well that I think are going
to be rare for a lot of people to see.
You know, I'm really letting people into see me in
a different way that they haven't seen outside the podcast.
And yeah, I don't want to give it away. I
just and hopefully I don't get in trouble for what
I'm talking about, but you know, trying to build it up.

(01:01:54):
The first episode should be out at the end of
the month or the beginning of October.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Oh wow, we don't have a name.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
We don't have a name for it. Yeah, we went
really quick, but I think and I don't know if
he's deep, facetious or not, but I was talking to
Aaron Deese. It's like I got like five hundred dollars
worth a video to add it. So we shot a
lot during those four to five days we were all together,
and I'll tell you what, what a good group of
people to be with, because not only we were working

(01:02:21):
on a shoot together, we were also living together for
five days. We kind of jokefully said we should call
this big Foot big Brother.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Yeah you were gone for a minute.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Yeah I was gone for a while. And you know,
unfortunately our internet wasn't always great out there. But I'll
tell you, you know what got me excited is being
able to take people out and share my world with them.
You know, we're not in the Pacific North Plas spot here.
We don't have twelve fifteen sixteen thousand foot peaks. You know,
we've got twenty five hundred to three thousand foot terrains.

(01:02:53):
But they're just as beautiful. Sometimes they're just as breathtaking,
and I promise you they're just as weird. We have
things going on here and I just wanted to be
able to share that in a way that it's just
a little different than what you get from your NORMALUS,
your normal show.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
That's awesome. I'm looking forward to it. I wasn't trying
to get you to give away any spoilers or anything.
I was just genuinely curious. This is the first time
we've really got a chance to talk since you got
back well, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
And the thing is, I don't want to over you know,
over from ote and I don't want to blow things
out of proportion.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
Yeah, we had some cool things happen. And you know,
the one thing I like to tell everybody is that listen, guys,
in thirty eight years, I can say on it and
maybe two hands of all the exciting things that have
happened to me. So when you look at the law
of averages, how often that happens. But you know, the
things I teach people and the things I talk about,

(01:03:56):
I think there's some points that I validated to myself
over the weekend. You know, I'm I'm a very low
tech person when it comes to bigfoot research. I don't
believe in going out like a half assed demando caring
a lot of equipment because I think you disconnect yourself.
But also realize I limit myself and what I'm able
to who I'm able to achieve. But I know that, yeah,

(01:04:20):
and I explained that, and I think I think folks
will be very happy with it. I think if you're
a skeptic, you'll be happy mostly. I think if you're
a believer, you'll be happy mostly because you know whether
there's always those people that, no matter what, they're never
going to be happy to begin them.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
Well. I know that people love the exciting stories and
you know, the sightings and all that stuff. I get
it that stuff is by far the most entertaining and
the most interesting to most people. But I tell people
you have to allow that cool down period whenever you
go out there and you think you've had an encounter

(01:04:57):
or an experience, or something strange has happened. You got
to sleep on it. You got to wait a few days,
get back home or whatever, and then think about it
all again and go back over all of it. And
if you're still thinking about it, if it's still in
your brain five years down the road, then yes, you
really did experience something.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
I really think the misconception about small town monsters is
that people want Bigfoot monster documentaries, and the reality of
it is, what's your scene isn't about Bigfoot. It's about
people who investigate and experience big floot. So when you

(01:05:36):
go into this, keep in mind you're not going into
at least in my summation, you're not going into orn
just about Bigfoot. You're going to go in and you're
probably gonna learn more about Sean Falker than you've ever learned.
You're probably gonna learn more about Matt Arnoer than you
ever learned. And to me, that's storytelling. And that's why
I like small Town Monsters. Yeah, because it's you get

(01:05:58):
the best of both. And uh, I really took that
that away from him. I really did, and hopefully, which
I don't have any doubt, what's going to be told
in a very classy, very classy way, and nothing was
filled with the intention to make it seem more than
it is. Like everything that's happened, it wasn't done with

(01:06:19):
clever camera angles or anything like that. Like, you know,
I like to put that out there.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
Too, Sean. I appreciate you coming on and unpacking this
very unfortunate conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Yeah, it sucks, but it's always good to talk to
you man, like I you know, I really enjoyed it.
You know, we hadn't talked in a little while. And
I think the Melvin thing is, you know, was a
good way to you know, kind of you know, hey,
you know, what the hell, let's not forget we both exist,
you know. Uh, we've all had shit going on, and
that happens. It comes and goes. But yeah, no, I

(01:06:53):
really enjoyed, enjoyed our conversation. I it's some real thought
provoking stuff here. And at the end of the day,
I helped the audience really likes it. You know, it's
our personal opinion on things. But I'm anxious to see
some of the comments on what they think about our mouth. Rushmore, Yeah,
what had you That's interesting, But I'd like to see
what their comments are about it. I would like to
see what they think. They're not Rushmore would.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
Do, Yeah, for sure. I mean, I'll get back to
the witnesses. You know, this was just an episode that
I had to do for myself, with everything that's happened
and all the thoughts that I've got in my head. Yeah,
I just had to unpack. Man.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
Yeah, just and you know, in your defense, this wasn't
an a oh my god, I got to do a
show about Melvirim. I think it moved more into Meldrim
than you, and I wanted to be honest when you
look at arth a note sheet. Yeah, but you and
I have both been sitting on feelings and I think
that's what's important. Like you know, we've been in this
a long time to think it's not going to affect
us in so much shape or form. It's just silly.

(01:07:51):
Part of the process, man, part of the process of
doing and getting it past us.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
And if you'd like to be a guest on Bigfoot Crossroads,
send me an email at Bigfootcrossroads at gmail dot com.
Check out the website Bigfootcrossroads dot com. You can find
links to social media, past episodes, merchandise, everything you need
all in one place. And until next time, remember there's
something in the woods.