Chief Willie Sellers of Williams Lake First Nation discusses Indian Residential Schools, the harmony of cultural preservation with community advancement and reflects on his reconciliation efforts, in an enlightening interview with Aaron Pete.
Willie Sellars, from Williams Lake, BC and a member of the Williams Lake First Nation (WLFN) of the Secwepemc Nation, became one of the youngest elected Councillors in WLFN history at 24 and, after a decade on Council, was elected Chief in 2018. Previously a Wildland Firefighter and later the Special Project Coordinator in the WLFN Economic Development Department, Willie managed new business initiatives and community consultations. He is also an award-nominated author of "Dipnetting with Dad" and the upcoming "Hockey with Dad."
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Aaron Pete (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the Bigger
than Me podcast.
Here is your host, aaron Peep.
As a council member for mycommunity, chewotho First Nation
, I'm always looking at otherleaders to see who are setting a
great example and who I canlook up to and follow in their
footsteps.
Today I'm speaking with anauthor, dancer and the chief of
(00:21):
Williams Lake First Nation.
My guest today is Chief WillieSellers.
Willie, I have been lookingforward to this.
I have been watching you onLinkedIn and you are doing so
many great things.
Would you mind just brieflyreminding people who you are and
the work you do?
Chief Willie Sellars (00:38):
We could wait up Cookbeat Willie Sellers
from Squex, the Gekkel,Esquimulu.
Hello, my name is Chief WillieSellers and I represent the
Williams Lake First Nation and Iam a part of Esquimulu.
I am very honored to be back.
I've had some good thingshappening, but you've been
(00:58):
killing it too, man.
Follow along at this risingstardom.
The studio keeps looking moreprofessional.
There's like a sound guy.
You know the Gekkels out herebefore we started.
Aaron Pete (01:12):
I appreciate it.
Are we able to start with yourreconciliation award that you
received a few months ago?
What was it like to receivethat?
You're always working behindthe scenes and it was such a
nice moment to see you receivethat.
What was it like?
Chief Willie Sellars (01:26):
Yeah, oh, man, it was.
You know you receive an awardlike that.
You think.
Do I deserve this award?
I feel like I'm fairly young,that there's more people that
are deserving of that award.
You know, I contemplate thesethings and I even debrief them
with our team about how I gethonored when it's really on all
(01:51):
of us here at WLFN.
You know we have such a strongand supportive council and we've
got great staff where, you know, I'm the figurehead of this
organization, of this government, of this community, like I am
not this person without all ofthem, and that's always.
You know what's going on in myhead.
I mean, we want to recognizethe team that we have.
(02:12):
But a big part of our eveningwas, you know how we've been
able to rekindle thisrelationship with the city of
Williams Lake.
You know you just have toGoogle the city of Williams Lake
and the Williams Lake FirstNation over the last, you know,
five years and there's crazyheadlines that have come out
where we've proactively wentafter council and the mayor and
(02:35):
asked people to step downbecause of statements that they
made.
And you fast forward to 2023-24and we have a great
relationship with the city ofWilliams Lake.
We're working on artwork forour airport with an overlapping
First Nation hot suit in thecity of Williams Lake and the
Kerber Regional District.
We, you know we were going toceremonies together.
(02:56):
We were going to holdceremonies at the mayor's house
over Christmas.
You know some interesting foodoptions, but like tasty it would
be an understatement and theway that we've been able to
build towards thisreconciliation discussion even
with them, and promoteIndigenous, non-indigenous
(03:18):
relationships for the region tothe better, it's been such a fun
ride and to be acknowledged forthat is just crazy.
The whole ceremony was prettywild too.
It was at government house.
I'm not sure if you've everbeen there, but it's this
massive house like on the hillin Victoria.
You go in and that's where theLieutenant Governor lives, and
(03:41):
you know we were.
My schedule is like reallycrazy.
You know I have four kids andwe were just talking about it
earlier.
It's playoff season, so it's abusier than usual right now with
the hockey rinks.
But you know, on top of thatwe've got a number of different
things going on.
So the only time that I couldfind to fly out to government
house for this reconciliationaward ceremony was the morning
(04:03):
of.
So we got there.
The award ceremony started at5.30.
We roll into government houseat 5.
And it was that big snowfall inVancouver, Victoria, so like we
were 60K from the airport thewhole way, it we barely made it.
Next morning we flew out 5.45amto Salt Lake City for a whole
other story.
(04:24):
But you know, it was a bit of awhirlwind week for us, that one
with this reconciliation awardand, of course, sundance Film
Festival.
Aaron Pete (04:34):
Can I ask about how you process reconciliation?
How do you think about it?
Because so many people talkabout the past and what has gone
on, and there's truth thatneeds to be told in that regard
and the challenges thatIndigenous people have faced.
But then there's the lookingforward, and how do we overcome
these obstacles?
How do we create momentumwithin First Nation communities
(04:57):
to rise above the pastatrocities and continue forward
and to flourish and grow andshare their gifts?
How do you think about thebalance that needs to be struck
between looking at the past andlooking at the future?
Chief Willie Sellars (05:08):
I mean it's such a valid, you know
point that you bring up.
It is a balance.
We have this debate all thetime.
We have this conversation andthe dialogue with our elders and
with our membership and withother leaders all the time about
you know how we manage ourtraditional territories even.
You know we have that sovereigngroup that anti-industry,
(05:29):
anti-pipeline, and yeah, I meanwe can support them.
But then we also have thisother side where you know we
need housing, we needinfrastructure, we need better
programs and services and I meanyou really go down the list and
all these things cost money.
So I mean it is a balance thatwe need to find in this
(05:49):
reconciliation discussion.
It is really at the heart ofthat.
You know, as the provincial andfederal governments start
holding up UNDRIP and we starthonoring, you know, the vision
around reconciliation, it'sleveling the playing field.
It is a big part of that havingthe conversations and making
those uncomfortableconversations comfortable.
(06:11):
You know there is this massivemovement in this country right
now around, I guess, recognizingthe legacy and the history of
residential schools.
You know, with that has comeinvestigations across the
country which you know, one ofwhich we are leading here at
WLFN in regards to the StJoseph's Mission and it's
(06:34):
sparked a lot of, you know, hateand untruths and just negative
feedback towards some of ourcommunities and some of our
peoples.
But I mean, what it's alsodoing is it's uncovering the
truth that make peopleuncomfortable and invite.
By doing that and holding upour culture and really focusing
(06:55):
on language ceremonyrevitalization, we're starting
to see, you know, those eldersand those ancestors, those
survivors, be brave and startingto have that conversation,
helping us educate thenon-indigenous peoples of our
regions.
And while that is happening,you know, the cycle is being
broken in our opinion, which isa big part of what
reconciliation is.
(07:15):
It's an education, but it'salso, you know, creating more
allies.
I found where you know, before,when we would strike a deal or
we'd have a major project or wewould conclude a settlement or
an agreement with a majorproponent in our traditional
territory, there would beanimosity from the
non-indigenous population, wherethey're just like, you know,
(07:37):
why do we get that?
And that's not fair and that'sour tax-paying dollars.
I mean you hear thoseconversations often, but now
it's like, you know, hell yeah,williams Lake First Nation.
We got to continue to supportwhat they're doing because
they're making our region lookbetter and that is a win for all
of us.
Now they have to realize that wehave to work together in these
(07:58):
conversations and when we have amassive victory at WLFN, we get
an award or we sign anagreement or we start a business
, that money, that money andthat recognition is like
bolstering our economy here.
That money is staying here.
That conversation about howgood a place that is is here.
Now itd's us realizing thatbalance that you talked about
(08:24):
and then just doing our part tomake it a better place, not just
for the Williams Lake FirstNation but for the city of
Williams Lake and the CarverRegional District.
Now there's lots of things thatwe should be working on
together and it would be a loteasier if we were working
together, but now thoseconversations are easier said
than done.
Just got to continue to movetowards that common goal.
Aaron Pete (08:45):
Can I ask about reclaiming the St Joseph's
Mission Indian ResidentialSchool?
How did that process come aboutand what did it mean?
Chief Willie Sellars (08:54):
Yeah, so you know we've.
We had the Prime Minister herein our community.
That brought a ton of profileto the region.
He came and he visited the siteof the former residential
school of St Joseph's Mission.
That is the residential schoolthat my dad went to, my grandma
and numerous others frommultiple nations throughout this
(09:17):
region and really through theprovince of British Columbia.
So far, through ourinvestigative works we've
identified over 50 nations or 50communities, sorry, that are
represented, with children atthat school.
No, but it wasn't just theWilliams Lake First Nation
school, it was.
You know, there was sequemnkids that went there, there were
Chilcotine kids, stallium, deGeath, new Hall.
(09:39):
You had done a list of kidsthat went there.
I mean it was pretty scary.
There are very many goodstories that came out of that
school, a lot of trauma and alot of triggers.
So when the announcement of the215 came out of KIB, we started
, you know, down our own path,our own investigation and
(10:00):
working collaboratively with theprovince of British Columbia,
with the federal government, andmaking sure that we had the
funding and the resources andsupport but that we were leading
those works.
And of course we hold upceremony in that conversation.
But what we found is it'sresulted in us, you know,
(10:24):
further reinforcing that there'sa lot of healing that needs to
happen in our communities.
You know it's not just, like Isaid, a Williams Lake First
Nation concern.
Initially it is an indigenousissue.
Now, why aren't our kidslearning about the residential
schools in the curriculum of ourschool districts and our
territories?
No, I never learned about them.
(10:44):
I'm not sure about you, butwe're starting to see that
movement where curriculum ischanging and those teachers and
those educational institutionsare starting to hold up and
educate individuals on thatstory.
And I mean that is just asimportant as the work that's
going on over there.
We want to be able to breakthat cycle and you know, on the
other side of that, we still getconversations and we still get
(11:07):
comments with our survivors andour elders around.
You know they don't want totalk about it anymore and they
don't want to hear about itanymore and that's in the past.
But by keeping that mainstreammedia we've been able to
continue to make sure that workis getting done, which is not
easy.
I mean I hold up ourinvestigative team that Whitney
(11:29):
Spearing, sharon Belle, you,nancy Sandy I mean those are
Charlene and Nancy.
Those are two former chiefsthat are really spearheading
that interview investigativepiece with our research team led
by Whitney Spearing, and I justyou know you hold them up in
(11:49):
your thoughts and your prayerson a daily basis because of how
intense that work is.
So in our territory where StJoseph's Mission is located,
it's all private property there.
So it's private property wherethe school used to sit in the
outbuildings.
Then it's private property asyou move out into the valley,
more private property as you getto the edges of the valley, on
(12:10):
top of the valley, and as westart ground truthing the, I
guess, the properties, you startto realize how complicated it
gets.
Right away, through interviewsor research through the archives
, we're bringing those survivorsout onto the grounds and having
(12:32):
them tell our stories and showus, you know, areas of interest
to get the start with the ground, penetrating radar works.
But when you're dealing withmultiple property owners it gets
so much more tough Becauseyou're like really kind of you
know, hoping and so far so good.
It's been really great with theprivate property owners.
But I mean they could stop thoseworks if they wanted.
(12:53):
And that's the biggest fear andthat's where we push the feds
and we work collaboratively withBrooks and Shannon Waddell on
that 14 acre parcel where theschool used to sit, and we were
able to find some success andpurchase that 14 acre parcel
where the school sat, where thegym sits, numerous other
outbuildings, where the nunsused to stay and the priests
(13:16):
used to stay, for example, andwhere the graveyard is the
historical graveyard that sat inthat valley.
So I mean that has alleviated alot of the pressure around
making sure that we can continueto get those works done.
You know it's brought ustogether as a team and as a
community and it's just made theconversations easier on how we
(13:38):
move forward and chart that pathand it gives us peace of mind
of what we can make that site,because that's also going to be
a big part of it.
You know there's maybeeventually we get to an
excavation, exhumationconversation that brings all the
communities together inceremony.
(13:59):
But you know what about afterthat and how we make that site
into a place of healing asopposed to a place of anger and
frustration, because you knowpeople want to gather there and
we've got to make it safe and wewant to make sure that we honor
the ancestors that are buriedthere.
Aaron Pete (14:21):
This is a very complicated subject, and I don't
know if you saw that Iinterviewed Candice Malcolm, and
the organization she founded,true North Media, wrote a book
called Grave Error, where shedisputes a lot of these claims.
She questions it a lot of it,and I did my best to have a
sensitive conversation with her.
(14:42):
Where we start with, these arehuman beings.
These are individuals who wereconnected and had family members
and loved ones and never got toreach their full potential.
One of the places we startedwith, though, was she pushed
back and said Do you reallythink that nuns and these types
of people were just letting kidsdie and letting them be
(15:02):
murdered and that that was justgoing on in Canada and nobody
cared?
That was one of her firstcomments, and I'm wondering what
your perspective on that is.
Chief Willie Sellars (15:12):
I mean I've heard those stories
firsthand of the horrific thingsthat happened at that school
that is known as St Joseph'sMission.
So I would contest her rightaway in India the comments that
she makes, that's calling ourelders liars.
And when you see the emotion,you hear the stories and you
(15:37):
look at the abuse that has beendone to date and then you look
at that archival works, thecharges that were filed,
historically and taking thosepriests to tasks, and there
there is no a legacy of horrificacts.
So I don't know how she wouldwant to say otherwise.
(15:59):
I mean it's documented.
But I think you know there isalways going to be naysayers and
when we think about you know, Idon't know, I want to talk
about proving them wrong,getting to a place of excavation
(16:20):
and you will never prove thatthose anomalies or reflections
are on marked graves until youdo that.
So it eventually will probablyget to that place, but it's
going to take time and there's alot of healing that needs to
happen for that to take place aswell.
I mean you look at even oursite and where we're at and
(16:43):
where we're going.
I mean we could still be a yearor years away from that
conversation and that's you know.
Maybe that's even beingambitious.
There are a lot of communitiesthat are saying they don't want
to do that, and that's somethingthat we're going to have to
weigh into the decision makingof how we move forward in the
(17:03):
year and coming years.
Aaron Pete (17:05):
One of the other comments that she made was that
the Truth and ReconciliationCommission took place and they
know exactly how many studentswent there and how many students
passed away due to illnesses orlike.
Her claim is that that's allalready been documented and so
if there were missing children,they would have been documented
(17:26):
in the National Truth andReconciliation Commission, and
so this work is already complete.
And my counter points to herwas one if you did lose a child
in an organization like this,there would be incentives to
cover it up, to not have thosestories told, and that many
people were fleeing from thesecircumstances, and so there
would be arguments that they ranaway and so they were never
(17:48):
documented leaving.
What are your thoughts on thefact that some of these people
may not be documented?
Chief Willie Sellars (17:53):
100% facts .
You hear even stories at StJoseph's Mission.
I mean, these are publicstories that are even told in
the sugarcane documentary thatis going to be coming out later
this year, made public, and kidsgetting thrown in an
incinerator.
(18:14):
I mean, how do you approachthat without getting emotional?
Extremely challenging anddifficult and the amount of
trauma that comes from evenhearing a story like that is
something that we have to livewith and hold up the individuals
(18:34):
that are telling it in a waythat is super challenging.
The mental health and wellnessof our survivors is of utmost
importance in this language,ceremony, culture,
revitalization, discussion thatwe continue to have.
They fought so hard to give usthis life that we have as
(18:57):
Indigenous Peoples in ourcommunities that we have the
ability to celebrate that partof our history.
You know, speaking our languageand singing our songs and
participating in ceremony andsometimes we take it for granted
and we need to get passionateabout it again to honor and hold
(19:20):
them up.
And really, you know, fightback to those individuals that
are calling us liars or sayingthat it's not true and it's a
money grab.
I mean you can't put a pricetag on the health and wellness
of our community.
It's just something that needsto be done.
Aaron Pete (19:43):
On that point.
I'd just like to point out thatlike and I'm hoping you can
share your story as well mymother was born with fetal
alcohol syndrome disorder as aconsequence of her mother
enduring St Mary's Indianresidential school here in the
Fraser Valley, and so when Ithink about it, I go through the
atrocities and the terribletrauma that my grandmother must
(20:05):
have lived through in order tosurvive that and then have
children, and then she hasmultiple children, and then
those children are born withthat same intergenerational
trauma.
But there's hope in having achild that things can improve.
And so to me I have aresponsibility to lead the
community the best I can, tolead my family the best I can,
(20:28):
to set a positive example, toshow that we can break these
cycles, as you were talkingabout earlier, and that we can
show that we are resilient andthat we can overcome these
things.
But that thinking about thingsin a seven generations lens is
encouraging in that you knowthat people sacrificed so much
that you could never comprehendin order for you to be here
today, and that is a sharedstory, I think, for so many
(20:51):
people, if their parents foughtin World War II or World War I,
that we, many of us, have astory where our families fought
for us to be here today and itovercame horrendous odds in
order for us to be here, and weshould be grateful for that and
appreciate it, and I'm justwondering if you can share your
perspective on that.
Chief Willie Sellars (21:10):
I mean it is totally true and you know
that healing piece of a big partof it is forgiveness.
And I think about the historythat I had and how fortunate I
am that my mum raised me and youknow she is an indigenous woman
who raised just on the reservein community of WLFN and she
(21:33):
instilled hard work and goodvalues and, you know, at the
same time did her best to holdup who we are as indigenous
people and what it means to besequem.
You know I had a lot ofanimosity towards my dad growing
up, and so did my sisters,because he was never around.
(21:54):
And you start to learn yourhistory and you start to learn
the traumatic experiences thatyour parents and your
grandparents and greatgrandparents went through and
you hear a story about howimportant it is to forgive in
order to heal.
(22:14):
And you know me and my dad havenever been closer.
But it took me a long time toget to that point, to understand
why he is the way that he isand make sure that me, as a
parent, isn't doing that samething, right?
I mean, you brought it up and Ithink you take the best
(22:39):
qualities of your parents anduse those with your own
teachings to raise your kids sothat you can put your kids into
a position to break that cycleIn generations from now.
You know we are not going to bedealing with that.
We are a generation removedfrom the Indian residential
school system in this countryand we are going to learn about
(23:00):
it and we are going to talkabout it.
But that same trauma thatimpacted my dad and
intergenerational trauma thatimpacted me isn't necessarily
going to have the same impact onour kids in future generations
from there.
So I mean it is exciting havingthese conversations too.
It is inspiring to think abouthow successful we are
(23:22):
considering and how successfulour kids and great grandkids and
grandkids and great kids aregoing to be moving forward.
We just have to continue to bethat mold and that model and
make our ancestors proud.
Every time I pick up that drum Ifeel a little bit better, even
(23:43):
if I am having a bad day.
Or every time you participatein ceremony you feel a lot more
pride.
We are seeing in our schooldistricts too, where kids are
proud to be indigenous, and itwasn't necessarily the case even
ten years ago, which is notthat long ago.
In our community here we have agreat powwow culture and we
(24:04):
have two powwows per year Ourfather's day powwow that happens
June 14th to 16th this year wehave a plug in here and of
course, our set of powwow thathappens September 6th to 8th.
We have a gorgeous arbor thatour community actually built 25
years ago, and 20 years ago youstart to see more and more of
(24:24):
these kids dancing and wantingto pick up that regalia and the
amount of pride and how proudour elders are seeing that.
It is so unbelievable to seeand that is just like one piece.
The idea is that we need tocontinue to make them proud,
both present day and into thefuture.
Aaron Pete (24:45):
Would you mind also sharing?
You have a book Hockey with Dadand then you go and get to
dance at a Canucks game.
Can you tell us that story?
Chief Willie Sellars (24:55):
It is one of my most favorite life moments
.
We are a die hard Canuckscommunity here or die hard
family.
I grew up watching the Canucksthrough the trials and
tribulations of winning andlosing and making cup finals and
not winning the grand prize.
I did not start powwow dancingvery long ago Just into my
(25:20):
second year now and I got greatmentors here in community.
I look at a dancing water sandyor Lenny Supernult and just how
they have been able to kind ofcoach me along and give me good
tips and advice even WilliamLulawa, who is 18 years old, who
coaches being on how to be apower dancer on the moves and
(25:42):
even how I should do a betterjob staying hydrated, which is
something that seems simple butis often overlooked when you are
having fun out in the dancesurface.
Of course, the Canucks weresuper fans.
I got approached by JoannaSparrow and she she asked if I
would be available to speak onTruth and Reconciliation Day or
(26:05):
profile around what we've beenable to do and how we've been a
part of this reconciliationdiscussion and investigative
works at St Joseph's Mission,where we've got me on the radar,
and they wanted me to come andbe a part of September 30th
National Day of Truth andReconciliation, or a sure day
with the Vancouver Canucks.
I was going to get to speak andbe a part of the puck draw and
(26:25):
I was like, you know, there wasno hesitation, yes, I will do
that and I'm super stoked to dothat.
And then they phoned me onTuesday and they said, hey,
would you be willing to dance atcenter ice in between the
periods?
And I said, yeah, no hesitation, Can I bring somebody?
They said, yeah, I'm bringingWilliam Bellew.
(26:46):
Then he's a band member, he isone of my power mentors, he is
an inspiration to me.
And then they phoned me onThursday and they're like, hey,
can you speak to the dressingroom in the morning of Truth and
Reconciliation Day?
And they said, yeah, that seemssimple.
Oh man, I speak at a lot ofevents and when we did the puck
(27:09):
draw, my eight year old got tobe a part of the group that
dropped the puck.
We have this great picture inmy house now.
But speaking in front of 16,000people was not hard.
It was very easy for me and itwas not stressful at all.
But earlier that day, goinginto the dressing room and
(27:31):
speaking to the VancouverCanucks players about what Truth
and Reconciliation and whatthis day means for Indigenous
peoples is probably the moststressed I've ever been at a
speaking engagement the moststressed, arguably, that I've
ever been in my entire life.
I walk into the room and allthose guys in there they're
(27:53):
legit my heroes.
You got Pederson and Miller andDemko, Rick Talkets sitting to
my right, Quinn Hughes you havecoaches like the Sadeen brothers
.
It was really a surreal momentand I always like to speak from
(28:14):
the heart in these instances.
That's one of the things that alot of former leadership has
taught me.
You know ones like Ann Louieand Nancy Salindy or like Rick
Gilbert, really out front.
You go down the list and thatwas such a cool moment.
Once all of that was done, thenwe still got to stay in the
(28:37):
bowels of the building atRoger's Centre.
You're like a kid in a candystore and you're in awe.
In the hallways down where theZambonis are, you get our own
little dressing room for VIPswhere our regalia is all set up
and we're starting to get readyto dance.
This is the fun part, the coolpart.
Earlier that day we got to goout there when the building was
(28:57):
empty and we got to practice onthis little 10 by 10 mat or 10
by 20 mat or whatever it is.
Under the Jumbotron you hearthe music just blasting.
There's just a crazy amount ofpride and excitement that comes
(29:18):
with Pawao and Pawao Music whenwe're looking at getting to do
that to help a team that youlove and get to honour
Indigenous people in a packedstadium.
It was a surreal moment.
That was the easiest andfunnest part was a dancing piece
(29:39):
.
I keep hounding the VancouverCanucks for that footage, for
those pictures, but I haven'tgotten it yet.
I don't know, maybe I'm savingit.
Aaron Pete (29:50):
That would be amazing to be able to watch and
be able to replay and share withthe community.
I'm wondering, and I don't meanto put a damper on it, but I'm
just wondering how you thinkabout these moments, because
I've heard comments.
Ainez Louie from the Stoloregion called out the Canucks at
one point in time.
She was going to go sing theCanadian National Anthem, I
believe, and the financial offerI think the Canucks were making
(30:13):
was not in line with what shewas looking for.
I just sort of think about someIndigenous people have this
perspective of like there's toomuch tokenism going on or
there's a fear of tokenism.
Does that ever cross your mindwhen these opportunities come up
, A fear that you're not gettingthe respect you deserve?
Or is that easy for you toprocess?
Chief Willie Sellars (30:33):
Yeah, it's tough and I mean maybe it's a
little bit easier for me.
You know, like I'd do thosethings for free.
I think it's not even acontemplation.
It was funny when they asked melike I had a list of demands
and they're just like no, and Isaid okay, well, I don't care,
(30:55):
this is my team and I'm going todo it anyways.
And you have thoseconversations afterwards like
we're able to secure a handfulof tickets for members.
We were able to secure ahandful of tickets for some of
the kids that were down there onmy son's hockey team and that
was good enough payment for me.
(31:18):
I understand the importance ofmaking sure that we pay and we
honor our artisans and ourcultural leaders, because I know
how it is in our community.
Even here at WLFN we have fourcultural workers on staff.
They make an annual salary andwe try and hold up and honor the
importance of those individualsin our community because we
(31:39):
know how detrimental they are toour healing as a community and
our revitalization discussionthat we continue to bring up.
But you know there is again Imean you continue to talk about
it, even you had mentioned itearlier this balance that we
need to strike.
You know it's very easy to callindividuals down on both sides
(32:01):
of the table, but I mean we needto see progress and if I'm
making a sacrifice to see thatprogress and I'm being a part of
that movement in a good way,hopefully what it does is it
blaze that trail so that youknow it's easier and individuals
are fairly compensated fortheir time and how they hold up
(32:24):
Indigenous peoples in thiscountry.
But I mean it's way easier forme than it was 10 years ago for
those leaders, 20 years ago forthose leaders.
I just had this conversation atlunch actually about, you know,
you think about how grandiosethe AFN personation summit,
ubcic, is, in regards to howeasy it is for me as a leader to
(32:46):
get down there and be a part ofit and participate.
You can participate virtuallynow or you can fly down, drive
down when you're in a hotel.
You have a per diem.
It's super easy and simple.
You just have to find the timeto go where.
I mean you look historically andthose leaders were carpooling,
hitchhiking, sleeping on parkbenches, getting apartments
(33:12):
together and sleeping on floorsand on couches and in bathtubs,
just so that they could makethose meetings, so they could
make it easier for futureleadership to have, say, at the
table with the provincial andfederal government.
So I mean it is a balance there.
I mean you don't want to be atoken I understand that part of
the conversation but you want tomake sure that you are being a
(33:33):
part of making it easier forfuture generations.
So it's a tough, a toughbalance to find, for sure just
like anything else For theVancouver Connect, though I
would have hitchhiked down theremyself if I had to.
Aaron Pete (33:48):
Well said, I'm wondering if you could describe
what it's like to be a chiefwith somebody who is
non-indigenous, somebody whodoesn't understand.
Often we get compared tomunicipalities, but I do find
that our housing is completelydifferent, Like so many.
Processes on reserve are sounique.
Culture is key within FirstNation communities in a
(34:11):
different way that it would befor a municipality.
Would you mind describing whatbeing a chief means in
comparison to other leadership?
Chief Willie Sellars (34:20):
Yeah, I mean it is like being.
I mean obviously it's differentthan a municipality or a
provincial or federal government, but I mean it's fairly similar
, except that every single oneof your constituents has access
to your cell phone, nose whereyou live and for the most part
you know, grew up with you,knows who you are on a very
(34:41):
personal level and I think aboutyou know we've had these
conversations in the past withour non-indigenous staff and
individuals that we bring in tohelp provide better programs,
services, policies, etc.
In our community.
It's like you know, there'sthis hybrid model that we need
(35:02):
to have in regards to governance.
That isn't necessarily like amunicipality, because we have to
hold up the history of who weare as Indigenous peoples and
what our governance looks like.
That is not an easy question toanswer by any stretch of the
means.
But you know I look at themisconceptions that you always
have with non-indigenous peoplearound.
(35:24):
We don't pay taxes, we don'tpay for housing, we don't pay
for education.
Everything just comes to us forfree, and I mean we are
supported by the federalgovernment.
I look at our staff here wehave 108 staff now, 50% of which
is paid for by funding that weget flying and scraping from the
(35:44):
federal government.
The rest comes from own sourcerevenue from successful
businesses, from agreements thatwe signed through.
You know our own means, our ownblood, sweat and tears and you
know what we get from the fedsisn't enough to provide proper
(36:06):
programs, services for ourcommunity.
You know I'll continue toimprove the housing crisis that
every single one of us has,improve our infrastructure and
make sure that we have cleandrinking water and proper sewer
system.
People take these things forgranted, but you know it is
stressful on a day to daybecause we are in charge of all
of that.
(36:26):
But you know, as a chief, youare the figurehead of that
community, of our governmenthere at WLFN.
But I am one person at thatcouncil table and I mean I'm
sure that you can relateEveryone puts the chief of a
bunch of pedestal and they getall the glory also get all the
crap.
But you know it's I'm not theone that's going in there and
(36:48):
like changing everything andmaking decisions by myself.
We make that as a collective,but we also make that on the
advice and guidance of the staffthat we have.
That is also something that weare very blessed with here at
WLFN We've been able to developa lot of capacity, both in-house
, bring a lot of capacity inthat allows us to do these
(37:09):
things and do them in a timelymanner.
Now it's not as easy as like,hey, we want a new rec center or
we want a new administrationbuilding.
You know, make a statement likethat it's, you know it's very
complex thinking about.
You know, where is that moneygoing to come from to build it?
You know, going through theengineering, the detailed
(37:30):
engineering, the site prep, Imean you, these things take
years and that's where, that'swhere I've been really blessed
again, in all honesty, is mytiming seems to have always been
really good.
Former leadership did a ton ofwork and really set things up
for me so that when ouradministration got in, some big
(37:52):
things happened right away.
And you know it's like, wow,chief Willie's doing all these
things.
But it's that formeradministration, which I was also
a part of, that set that up inthe timing just worked out when
we were able to get in.
But now we continue to raisethat bar to do it and we have
non-digious people coming in andasking us you know what does it
(38:13):
mean to be chief and how greatit is.
You know what?
They don't see them.
And they see that positivefront that we always put on but
they don't see.
You know some the stuff thatreally weighs in on your mental
health, you know, weighs in onyou as a dad and you get those
in any kind of politics andthat's probably the toughest
(38:35):
part of all of us is weighingthat for the better good of our
community.
No, I'm not shy to shed a tearcry or not shy to Don't speak to
our elders or talk to atherapist.
And you know, go play hockey acouple times a week because
that's what helps me find mybalance.
(38:57):
But you know, you only can dowhat you can do and Membership
recognizes that.
But but again, I always fallback on.
They have to recognize ourcouncil and our team here,
because they're pretty specialtoo.
Aaron Pete (39:10):
May I ask about your election process?
When I first ran on council formy community, we didn't have
any processes like Like a debateportion or an all candidates
meeting where people can get toknow our community.
Still, very much a vote it'sbased on whose last name is big
in the community and you have afew big families that vote for
(39:31):
their kin and it's the Hatfieldsin the McCoys Continuously
where they're battling forgrounds and they're making
decisions in the best interestof their family and luckily I'm
from a relatively small lastname.
But I ran on a platform.
I went forward.
I held all candidates meetings.
Only a few people showed up.
I posted a lot on Facebook.
I did an interview with thelocal reporter.
(39:52):
I said what I wanted toaccomplish and what I thought I
could bring to the table.
That was unique and I came insecond place for both running
for chief and running forcouncil and I believe that I was
in large part because I wasrunning on something I was.
I was saying what I was gonnado rather than just running on
my last name.
And I'm wondering how yourelections go and do you have any
(40:13):
processes that I could bring infor my next election that have
worked for you, or that seemedto bring out the best ideas
rather than just the last names.
Chief Willie Sellars (40:23):
Yeah, well , I mean my first Plan of
attacks.
I just got to continue to havekids and eventually they all
become voting, just kidding.
But we have a custom electioncode here at WLFN so we run in
four year staggered terms.
So the next election isactually this summer.
There'll be three councilpositions up for grabs and you
(40:46):
know some people say it's apopularity contest.
But again, I mean I, I come fromthe same background as you.
I mean you lead by example, youshow the community that you
care.
You know you bring a certainset of skills that may be a
little bit different than otherpeople, but your passion for the
community is a big part of whatour membership will recognize
(41:07):
Now.
They see you at communityevents, they see you Talking and
in port, portraying thispositive image of not only who
you are but where you come fromand what nation you're from.
And there is a respect piecethat comes with all of that.
I mean we always have to carryourselves in a good way and I
figured that I always have atWLFN Ever since I was a kid and
(41:29):
it comes from those teachingsfrom my mom and you know I did
certain teachings from my dad toand my family on both sides.
But Making sure that themembership knows who you are is
the key piece, where you know ifthere is a debate or an open
forum.
We have that as well throughour custom election code and you
(41:50):
got to make sure youparticipate in those.
I mean it could be thedifference.
But you also just Want to makesure that people are making
informed decisions when they'regoing to the polls and it isn't
just based on family, because Imean, I mean you need the best
people that you can in thesepositions because they're making
decisions on behalf of all ofyou and no, that has drastic
(42:13):
impacts on Not just thisgeneration but future generation
, seven generations from now,like you were saying earlier.
And you know it's good havingthe staggered terms I think for
here at WLFN, because then youget consistency in that
leadership group.
So there isn't a huge upheaval,you know, every every four
years.
And what what I found is?
(42:34):
You know it's been veryconsistent.
We've always had a good counselsince I've been in this role.
But but you know there wasthere was always great voices at
the table that challenged theadministration that currently
was in.
I remember even me.
I used to.
I used to have full-onarguments and yelling matches
with former G fan Louis, and Ithink that is healthy.
(42:56):
I think that's probably why sherespects me the way that she
does and it's why I have alwaysrespected her Is she would never
back down and she was always sopassionate and I took great
lessons out of that even to thisday.
You know she's so strong.
She's back at the council tablenow and we don't have those
(43:18):
same yelling matches, but butshe always, you know, puts me in
my place and then it gives me alesson when it's needed, which
is also very important to me.
It's good to have thosecompeting minds, but at the end
of the day, when we do makedecisions, I always say this we
all support that decision movingforward and we Put that united
(43:40):
front out so that membership cansee that we are strong, and I
think that's benefited.
That's in the short term andthe long term here where we come
from and our small part of theinterior.
Aaron Pete (43:51):
I've written an opinion editorial and basically
the thesis is that I think mymain concern moving into the
future is I think first-nationcommunities need to be somewhat
be treated like a municipality,in that those council meetings
are public record and that thereshould be reporters that are
able to come and ask Questionsand make sure that we're leading
(44:11):
properly, because the tragedythat I see with other
first-nation communities thatare still in poverty is
sometimes those leaders aren'tbeing accountable for taking
action, for taking necessarysteps and for moving forward.
So we have communities thatlike yours, that shed a beacon
of light for communities likemine to go.
We want to move in thatdirection and your health
building looks amazing and wewant to move and we want to be
(44:33):
more like that.
But then I see othercommunities and they're stuck in
the same slumps.
They were when I was a kid andthey haven't moved anywhere.
And I think healthy journalismwould be able to highlight and
help inform that dialogue.
Not all not all members Knowwhat questions to ask or how to
phrase the question or how toget an answer, but journalists
certainly do and they know howto hold leadership accountable
(44:55):
and ask the necessary questions.
And I think right now one of thefears that so many people have
is Insulting a first-nationcommunity or coming on to the
land inappropriately or do, andof course, there's a place for
that but when we're talkingabout getting first-nation
communities out of poverty, thishas to be a part of the
conversation, in my opinion, tomake sure that the leaders are
(45:16):
actually delivering on what theysaid they were going to do and
that there isn't just thepositive stories, that there's
tough stories to where we findout this leader isn't on the up
and up and they need to beremoved from office and another
leader needs to step in, so thatwe don't stay in these ruts for
20, 30 years and so that wedon't have such a huge
discrepancy between Successfulfirst nations and unsuccessful
(45:37):
first nations when leadershipseems to be the challenge.
Do you have any perspectives onthat?
Chief Willie Sellars (45:42):
Yeah, I mean it's the timing of you
asking that question is justcrazy.
We had a community meeting lastnight and it was the discussion
around Williams Lake firstnation pursuing a
self-government agreement,starting a rights and
recognition table with thefederal government moving the
direction.
You know, for the last 30 yearswe've been in the treaty
process.
There's been a ton of amazingwork that has happened.
(46:04):
30 years ago, 3d was really theonly option to be a
self-determining first nationachieving self-government.
Legislative landscape haschanged significantly over the
last 30 years with numerouscourt cases that have changed,
you know, and Evolved and givenus additional options.
So a self-government agreementis something that we wanted a
(46:25):
table with the community and Getsome feedback and have some
conversation around.
Is this something that appealsto you and that you would
support?
No, we figure we have themandate through the treaty
process because aself-government agreement is a
part of that process.
Anyways, so paralleling the twowould be a benefit.
You know we would put theneeded pressure on the
government so that we can, youknow that, achieve one of them
(46:49):
in a timely manner instead ofwaiting another decade or more.
But you know, one of thecomments that we had at our
community meeting last night isfrom one of you know I don't
know how you terminate a radicalIndividual saying we don't have
community meetings and we needto be more transparent and our
communications suck and sick.
(47:10):
Okay, well, let's just unpackthat for a second.
And you know I'm always quickto say, and even said it last
night you were not going to hurtmy feelings or counsel's
feelings by asking questions.
No, all we ask is that you berespectful and you say to the
room you know we're not going toproactively go out there and
(47:31):
Comment and answer questions onaggressive social media posts,
but if you come into the officeand you want to have a
conversation, bring it on.
If you don't feel comfortablewith doing that, you know,
forward an email and answer, askthose questions and we're never
gonna, you know, judge anindividual for doing that.
I mean we want to be challenged.
At the end of the day it's.
(47:52):
It's healthy Conversation tohave in transparency, which is
what the membership wants, andwe're quick to rebut a last name
.
We've had numerous referendumsto move ourselves along in the
treaty process.
We have had.
We had our specific claimreferendum or land code
ratification referendum.
We have numerous meetings thatare more engagement sessions
(48:17):
around the direction of how weapproach industry.
So you know that there isBelatedly in the concerns that
we need to have more.
Yeah, I mean COVID reallyjammed us up in that
conversation, but I mean, nowwe're getting back out there and
we're starting to open back upand and that was one of my
comments to some of our teamtoday was man, we need to have
(48:38):
more community sessions, justeven information sessions about
what's going on, so that peoplecan feel more comfortable and
give a shit if they want to.
You know like those are myfavorite sessions because you
really get to hear what theconcerns are and In the last
thing we want to do is muzzlepeople and not feeling
comfortable but voicing theiropinion.
So moving towards open councilmeetings is another priority for
(49:01):
our administration.
I was talking to a member lastnight.
He said when is that going tohappen?
And I'm like I know I soundlike a broken record around
these things, but we have allthe latest and greatest
technology here at WLFN with ournew administration build.
It's going to happen.
We just need to make sure wedon't roll it out and fumble it,
and you know that is the taskto our team that we have with
(49:23):
our CAO and our communicationsgroup on how we tighten up our
Minute taking and our messagingand how those meetings are
structured in a way that is notgoing to Well.
That's going to keep us safe asas a council and as a community
because, really, once you openit up to membership and having
those public council meetings,the world is going to see them,
(49:47):
and that's something that weneed to be cognizant of and know
how to properly structure ourmeetings to reflect that.
Making sure that we're being astransparent as possible is
something that every communityshould strive for, because that
is often the misconception.
Indigenous country acrossCanada is that they're, you know
, protecting their hiding, theircorrupt and there's, you know
(50:10):
it, it's the same in everycommunity.
That's the one.
If I guess they're encouragingthings is that the same problems
that we're having here at WLFNare the same problems that are
that are that are Happening inevery single country.
Some of us are just, you know,getting better that how we deal
with them, but there's still,you know, we're not perfect here
.
There's still a ton of work todo on a number of different
(50:32):
fronts.
That Keep me awake at night.
Aaron Pete (50:36):
Yes, I just had an open house recently in regards
to housing and we had theMinistry of Transportation come
out.
Fraser Valley Regional Districtwe're working on getting 30 new
units.
We're working on how tocommunicate that and then
getting member feedback on howto design it, and I spoke with
all the stakeholders Afterwardson how they thought it went.
At times it got a little bitlouder, so I was like did
(50:58):
everything go okay, how are youfeeling?
And the response was howimpressed they were and how
passionate the membership wasabout sharing their thought.
I think for so many it's likeyou just don't have the
opportunity to say the one thingyou want this road to be Expand
it a little bit so that you canfit your, your bus, that you're
getting picked up for, yourkids for, and like these very
(51:19):
simple things that Communitymembers need to share.
And I'm always very cognizant ofmaking sure that, even if it
doesn't make sense at first,that I kind of steelman the
position and try and figure outwhat's the best part of that
argument and how can I carrythat piece forward.
Because there is this balanceof like.
If you put it out to the wholeworld to see, information can be
misconstrued or misunderstoodand you want to be cognizant
(51:40):
that certain information isn'tkind of going off in the wind.
I know whenever we're in aspecific claim now in my
community there's talks of likeoh, are we getting a payout, or
is membership getting a payout?
So like, how things arecommunicated is something you
have to be cognizant of.
But you never want membershipto feel that cut off and I
certainly sympathize that.
There's lots of tick-tockvideos out there about
(52:01):
indigenous leadership and how wecan do better.
Chief Willie Sellars (52:04):
I mean, it is so true and you get into
those community meetings andusually it's the loudest voice
that that really commands theroom and you know free housing
is one that's always thrown outthere.
Per capita payouts and thedebate that we have in our
community meetings around Peoplethat say things like that or
(52:25):
comments that are made on oursocial media, is that you know
we just won this specific claimthat was a 30-year court battle,
went to the Supreme Court ofCanada, went through the
tribunal process and we ended upsettling out 135 million.
We took 5 million, we did a percap, we paid off some bills, we
put some aside for someinfrastructure improvements, but
(52:47):
then we locked up 130 millioninto a community trust and there
was a ton of debate around howcould you do that?
You should be paying it all out.
This is BS and Like those arewhat the loud voices were saying
in it and if you don't lookclosely, I mean that's what you
think the entire community issaying.
But when we go to referendum,you know it's 90-plus percent
(53:11):
vote in favor of locking that upinto a community trust and
that's something that reallyopened my eyes around.
You know the loudest ones inthe room don't necessarily speak
for the room, and we have tomake sure that we keep that in
mind while making decisions onbehalf of the community.
You know it's easy to succumbto that loud voice and think
that they're speaking and partof, as part of the broader
(53:31):
community, but they're, for mostpart, not.
And Now there is no way and Isaid this in those engagement
sessions and to people thatwould talk to me is now I would.
I'm ready and willing to bevoted out to make sure that this
gets locked up into a communitytrust, because that isn't just
the legacy of this currentadministration or staff.
I mean that protecting thatmoney for future generations is
(53:54):
the legacy of every single elderand ancestor that fought for
that Specific claim and writingthat historical wrong over the
past 30 years and that was justso much more important.
I mean my kids will get a nicecheck to start the modern life
when they turn eight, when theyturn 18, then in every single
future kid moving forward whichis now pretty Crazy plus, I mean
(54:19):
the annual interest off of thatspecific claim is is gonna
allow us to do whatever we want.
Really, that, that is, that isa lot of money annually that
will come, be coming into WLFand long past I'm gone, and
that's something that we we'revery proud of.
But again, I mean it doesn'tcome with making sure that we
(54:40):
are being transparent andcommunicating with our
membership.
I mean simple Things like justeven returning a phone call to
members whether it's good newsor bad news, is what they want.
I mean, people want information, they want to be communicated
with, and Sometimes that's notEasy to do because it's not good
news, but it's something thatwe have to do.
(55:02):
We always have to make surethat we realize that we have our
positions and in in ourorganization Whether it's
achieving council or whetherit's a CAO or whether it's
social development seniormanager or senior manager of
education and we have jobsbecause of our members, and
that's the sick close to ourhearts when we're doing this
(55:23):
work too.
Aaron Pete (55:24):
That's beautiful.
I have two more questions.
One of them is a little bitlonger and I didn't just invite
you on for Altruistic reasons.
I actually would love yourperspective on my work on
council, so I'm going to give alittle bit of a rambling talk on
what I've been working on andI'd love to hear your feedback
on the end on where I could takethings.
We're about 18 months from ournext election, so I just love
your thoughts.
(55:45):
So I manage the portfolios forhousing, economic development
finance and tax.
On housing, when I joinedChihuahua First Nation, on their
council, we had no housingmanager, no housing plan to
repair the existing 89 homes inour community and no plan to
ever build new, new homes.
Since about 18 months agoSeptember 2022.
I've brought on a housingmanager.
(56:06):
We've repaired about 15 homes.
We have a plan in place torepair another 15 within the
next year, so and a long-termplan over the next three years
to repair all 89.
I would say when I came on, all89 had severe health or safety
issues in regards to them.
So we should have that resolvedby the time that my term is up,
or we should be on the way andthere should be shovels in the
(56:26):
Ground repairing those existinghomes.
We're putting in an applicationright now.
We did one for our hi 3 ForCMHC.
We were unsuccessful in thatbid because we didn't put in our
own source revenue.
Now we're working on a BChousing application for 30 units
and I'm optimistic that we'llsee results on that.
So housing is moving forward onall good fronts in that regard.
Then economic development when Icame on, everything was done in
(56:50):
house.
We didn't have an activeEconomic development corporation
that operated separate from ourFirst Nation community.
So we've gotten that up andrunning.
We have three board members.
We're working on getting up tofive and they're now dealing
with the responses onprocurement and processes and
what we're looking for, andwe're working on an economic
development plan in that regardso that we can operate based on
(57:11):
what the members actually wantand what jobs and Businesses
they'd like to see started inthe community.
So that's moving in a reallygood direction.
And then for finance, we werethree years behind on our audits
and come March we should becaught up on all of our audits.
We're working on bringing in acontroller so they can manage
all of the finances and makesure that we stay up to date.
And then we're now implementingbudgeting for all of the
(57:33):
departments, which we didn'thave previously.
So that is also all beingsorted out and we're working on
getting approved by FF FirstNations Financial Management
Board certification and weshould have that in the
following year, which willlikely be 2025 by the time that
we're starting to get approvedon all of those fronts.
And then taxes we were on theprevious system and now we're
working on getting up to date onthe new federal system that
(57:56):
goes outside of the Indian Actand that's moving quite well,
and then we'll start to havecertification by the provincial
authority on taxation.
Property assessment, pcassessment.
So that is where I'm at, butI'm very eager to continue the
momentum forward and I'mwondering what advice would you
have for a council member that Imight not have heard before and
(58:18):
how can I continue to do betterif I do choose to either run
for chief or council again in 18months?
How long are you term section?
Chief Willie Sellars (58:26):
three years.
So well done.
You know you, you listen to allthat work and I mean it is
inspirational even for me.
You know we have a massive teamof individuals that help us
move these things along WLF andI mean I am no, I am no cracker
(58:46):
jack when it comes to taxes andfinances, and but I mean that we
have individuals that are onstaff.
You know they deliver thevision that we have as a council
and its communities, like yours, that you know help give us
that mold, and we hear storieslike this you take that little
bit of what other communitiesare doing and you tailor them to
(59:06):
the needs of your own community.
One of the biggest pieces of thepieces of advice that I have
for anybody that's getting intoleadership is that to make sure
that they realize that they haveto be patient.
You know, like these thingsdon't happen overnight and we
see it time and time again.
People are running forleadership roles and their
territories is that they'regonna change the world Now.
(59:27):
They're gonna do this, they'regonna do that, and then they get
in there and it's just like youknow, there there is a
bureaucracy within indigenouscommunities, just the same as
there is with municipalities andProvincial governments and
federal governments.
I mean we can act a little bitquicker, obviously, but we need
to have the proper people inplace for that to to realize.
(59:47):
And Of course, you needcommunity support, which you
know you want to come in and you, you want, you want to fix 89
homes.
I mean, geez, that is, you know, an undertaking that could
potentially take decades ifyou're relying and waiting on
the federal government to do it,and I can imagine how
(01:00:08):
challenging it would have beenfor you to even get 15 and then
have the commitment foradditional homes in the future.
I mean, those are probably, youknow, pestering and Just being
aggressive on your calls withthe feds and just the
consistency of Of doing thatlike on a weekly basis, probably
to make sure to shake loosethat funding.
(01:00:29):
You know how you're partneringthat up with BC housing and and
and other Funding sources toMake sure that it happens.
And then, on the flip side ofthat, people are still screaming
for new homes.
I bet right.
And when people want new homes,subsidized homes or its free
homes, which isn't a reality inindigenous communities because
(01:00:53):
somebody has to pay for thatmortgage.
So if you're giving a free homeor or you're subsidizing homes.
That money comes from ownsource revenue and it's that
educational piece that we hadneed to make sure that we were
sharing with our members.
If you don't pay, well, I mean,how do you expect us to even
fix the homes?
And this is that recurringcycle that we see and and in and
(01:01:14):
also making sure that we'reeducating them how to properly
maintain their homes.
I mean, I'm a homeowner.
I owned a trailer and then Ieventually bought a house in
community here, built a house,got a mortgage.
You know you do the things thatneed to be done and like being
a homeowner is like stressful,you know, like looking at your
(01:01:36):
roof and making sure that you'reyou're maintaining your, your,
your plumbing and and and thesoft, I mean you really it's.
It's an educational piece thatI wish I had when I was growing
up.
And we think about wanting tomake change in in our
communities.
We just, you know, going backto we just have to make sure
(01:01:58):
that we are patient, but we arealso persistent that those
conversations are continuing tohappen on a weekly basis,
because I because I mean you youhave experienced it firsthand
if you're not continuouslyhounding those funding groups,
bringing it up at the counciltable.
You know they're never going tohappen.
It's that squeaky wheel that'sgoing to to get rewarded for the
(01:02:20):
most part, unless you're amassively successful community
and there's revenue streams thatare just flowing in and and
you're able to use that onsource revenue and allocated to
the different initiatives in thecommunity.
I mean, that's a that's areally cool conversation to you
know.
I look at Our community and thesuccess that we've had.
We're a resource based economyhere, I'm sure you sure you know
(01:02:44):
it's forestry, it's mining,it's pipeline.
We're trying to diversify, ofcourse, and we're doing our best
with our cannabis initiatives,amongst other things.
But you know, signing an impactbenefit agreement with the
local mine doesn't necessarilysit well with the entire
community, or Indian country forthat matter, but you know it,
(01:03:05):
signing that impact benefitagreement, creating that
relationship with proponents inthe territory and striking up
partnerships with, with, with,with industry, is about building
a revenue stream and having aseat at the table and finding
again going back to that balanceRight of being proper stewards
of the land and being able toprovide better programs,
services, housing, etc.
For your community.
All that, all of those thingscost money and that's the
(01:03:26):
balance that we need to continueto stress to our community and
we're not sellouts at WLFN.
But you know, we are doingwhat's best to make sure that we
can be better and we can seeprogress, so that we can make
sure that hoses are beingrepaired and people are working
and providing for their familiesand, and you know, the health
and wellness and the familyStructures continue to improve
(01:03:48):
in our communities.
You know, but again you go back.
These things don't happenovernight and we have to make
sure that we are being patientin how we approach them.
But as long as progress ishappening, we have to make sure
that we're.
Aaron Pete (01:04:03):
It was chief Clarence Louie who said it's the
economic development that pullsthe social cart, and I thought
that that was an apt statementto keep in mind for First Nation
communities who are facingthose challenges.
My last question for you,because you are such a great
leader, is what makes a greatleader in your perspective?
Chief Willie Sellars (01:04:27):
Oh man, I I've been blessed with good
timing.
We say that I got into Counseland I got to work under some
pretty amazing people.
I got to mentor under Imentioned her already Former
chief at Louis.
I got to mentor and sit besidethe late former chief and sat on
council the entire time I wasin leadership Rick Gilbert no,
(01:04:51):
chris Wycliffe, seniors at hertable.
Nancy Sandy, former chief, sheworks on our St Joseph mission
investigative team.
She is quick to put me in linealways and I feel that's because
she respects me.
We have to always make sure andhold up those former leaders,
(01:05:13):
because there's gonna be a pointin time when I'm not a leader
anymore and you know I I'd liketo hope that I will be respected
the same way that I respect ourformer leaders.
No, you always have to maketime for them and appreciate
their opinions and Respect thecomments that they make, because
they always make them in a goodway and they used to be in the
(01:05:34):
seat that you, that you're inright now I I Think about.
You know the lessons that I'vebeen told that could have, you
know, arguably got me removedfrom office or tainted my
reputation, or you know Just howthey were used as life lessons
(01:05:56):
to me Because of just howstressful this position is.
Right and you know, the lifethat we live is filled with
stress and anxiety and we'realways trying to find the
balance and and keep everybodyhappy.
But you know, everybody hastheir own issues, that that
happen in their own stressesthat happen.
(01:06:17):
We have to also make sure thatwe're respecting those as well.
So what makes a good leader,you know, being fair, being
honest and just making sure thatwe're making that time to
listen to every single one ofthose members that we have and
Holding up our elders and ourancestors that have, you know,
(01:06:37):
done it before and lived itbefore, and in honoring them at
the same time.
I mean, it's no easy task.
I Come off shiny, but you knowI've had a rocky road, just like
anybody else, which is, um, youknow, a part of the process.
It's funny, I had thisconversation with my dad the
(01:06:58):
other day and he was saying whatare you gonna do after you're
done as the chief?
What are you gonna do if youget elected out?
And I said I don't know.
Celebrate.
It's a stressful positionsometimes and you and, and he
freaked out, he's like what?
And I'm just like you know I'mhalf joking with you, dad but
(01:07:21):
like not having to worry on adaily basis about the direction
of the community and you knowhow we improve the health and
wellness and life of futuregenerations.
You know we'll still do that toan extent outside of leadership
, but you know, life wouldprobably get a little bit more
simpler, and then that's a goodthing too.
(01:07:42):
You know, I'd probably havemore time for family and more
time to to learn my language,for example, and those are also
important things.
Same conversation pivoted intoyou know, dad, when are you
gonna retire?
When are you gonna, you know,be an elder in our community?
And he's like I can neverretire.
(01:08:04):
I can, you know, but it's justlike no, seriously, you know why
don't you retire?
You come drive our elders bus.
You, you can work part-timebecause you know it's not a
full-time job, and then youcould also, you know, pick that
drum back up and learn yourlanguage and be an elder in our
community.
And you know you laughed like Iwas joking, but I was dead
(01:08:27):
serious.
You know we have to understandthe stress that gets put on our
leaders across Indian countryand recognize that as we move
forward and as we look at youknow, the future generation of
leaders that are coming up.
It's not an easy position.
It gets only even morechallenging when you factor in
all of the you know, socialmedia and access that people
(01:08:49):
have to you, because, really, Iam a phone call away from every
single one of our members and Iknow that because they phone me
all the time.
Sometimes they phone me to callme down, and sometimes they
phone me to thank me, andsometimes they phone me just to
have a conversation, and youknow we have access Across the
board on every single differentsocial media platform, and
(01:09:12):
Making sure that that we'rehonoring you know what each of
our leaders go through andholding them up at the same time
is very key to thatconversation.
That's the messaging that weneed to continue to have as we
move forward.
That conversation.
That's the messaging that weneed to continue to have as well
.
Aaron Pete (01:09:27):
Brilliant.
You have a few powwows comingup.
You mentioned the documentarycoming soon.
Would you mind telling peoplewhat's coming soon for you?
Chief Willie Sellars (01:09:34):
Yeah, we have our traditional powwow June
14th to 16th.
That'll be fun, more low-keybut still awesome.
We have our competition powwowSeptember 6th to 8th.
That is like the big show.
It's like the Stanley Cup forour territory here.
Last year we had Championshipdancers from all over Western
(01:09:54):
Canada.
We had nine drum groups, somebig ones from even Back East.
It was some show, you know wewe had some very talented
individuals in there.
You know I dance and I put in,you know, hundreds of hours
every summer, try and like besharp and in shape, and I don't
(01:10:16):
even touch the the talent thatcomes to our powwow in in
September and even, honestly, inIn June.
So we have those two.
Everyone is welcome.
We continue to level up on bothof them.
And then we have, of course, thedocumentary about our
investigative works over at StJoseph's Mission, which
(01:10:37):
premiered at Sundance in January.
We won I think it was a bestdirector award.
It got picked up by NationalGeographic, so it'll be
streaming on Disney Plus withinthe next six months sometime.
So, yeah, that that will be,you know, a big one.
It is something that you knowthe vision I Am in it like.
(01:11:01):
I'm not the star or anything,I'm just in it, which is, which
is cool.
But there's some reallyimportant stories that come out
of that About the history andlegacy of residential schools
and some of the atrocities thathappened.
But you know, the vision ofthat documentary will be that it
is added into the curriculum ofevery single school in this
(01:11:23):
country.
That's something that we'llpush for because it's an
important story to tell and itshould be a part of that
education of Canadians,indigenous, non-indigenous For
years and years and generationsto come.
So that's fun.
We'll have the premiere forthat Williams like hopefully
before it debuts on Disney Plus,but we'll keep you updated on
(01:11:46):
that one.
Aaron Pete (01:11:47):
That sounds great.
You have dip netting with dadand hockey with that and, if I'm
not mistaken, there was reallyrecent story in your local
newspaper saying that you'regonna do a live reading with one
of the schools.
Chief Willie Sellars (01:11:59):
Yep, no, we, we.
I try and fit them in, you know, as much as I can, because it's
really important, right.
You know, you instill thatpride into those indigenous kids
to see not just an author but aleader, you know, taking the
time to Be a part of their dayand and hold them up as as young
indigenous people in this world.
(01:12:19):
It was funny that the one I'vedone a couple over the past I
guess March last month and andone sticks to mind where a girl,
a young girl in the school,says my mom dries fish, and
we're like at the end of dipnetting with dad and I say, yeah
(01:12:41):
, and you know what, your mom isthe best Dry salmon maker in
the whole territory.
And she was like beaming withpride, right, and everyone's
like whoa, yeah, that's so cool.
They're like, you know, it'slike an exciting moment.
And then I run into the mum andshe's just like now I got to
make dry salmon for a whole.
You got to hold up thoseartisans too, because they're a
(01:13:06):
very important part of thatrevitalization Of our culture
and our ceremony languagediscussion, you know.
And there's a whole economyaround that too.
It's a whole other conversation, right, people are trying to
provide for their families atthe end of the day, and the
easier that we Can make it forthem, the better.
I mean you, you.
You commented in our preambleabout some of the shirts that
(01:13:29):
I've worn and I think about likedancing water.
Sandy is built in the majorityof the shirts that I have
rosemary Johnson, and they'regorgeous, gorgeous shirts, and
you know that is the kind oftalent that we have right here
in our communities and that'sjust WLF N right.
And go across the board ofthose artisans that we should be
(01:13:51):
holding up and showcasing theirwork on the events that we
participate in.
Go to Not only as leaders butas indigenous people, because
everybody always asks thoseearrings that my partner wears,
everyone asks.
Or who your cousin wears,everybody asks that's that money
that goes into the pocket thatstays right here here in
(01:14:13):
Williams Lake.
We gotta be make sure thatwe're we're holding them up and
proud to showcase them.
Lots of exciting things and Iwill have, hopefully, a couple
more books coming out andannounced within the next year
or so.
You know we have them ready,just waiting on the illustrator.
It's tough cookie that KevinEast.
Hope Devon, if you're listening, man, sign up, let's go.
Aaron Pete (01:14:37):
Chief, you are an inspiration to communities like
mine.
Your community is aninspiration to communities like
mine.
We're looking on who's doing itright, on who's setting the
example, on which footsteps wecan follow in and who we can
learn from, and I'm regularlylooking at you.
My fellow council member,kelsey John, is regularly
(01:14:58):
talking about how we need ahealth building.
We need a multi-purposebuilding like WLF N, and so you
guys have set the standard andyou're inspiring other First
Nation communities to go.
We need to give our membersbetter, and I thank you and your
community for all the workyou're doing on setting such a
great example.
Chief Willie Sellars (01:15:14):
Oh man, I appreciate, aaron.
I mean, you're an inspirationto us.
Man Like this is.
What makes my life funner andour jobs easier as leaders is
that we don't have to recreatethe wheel every single time we
want to do something and when wewe think about no, the rising
tide and other communitiesflourishing.
Well, I mean, that's healing,that's, that's a lot of pride.
(01:15:38):
So just keep doing what you'redoing too.
And and I appreciate the kindwords and just remember, when
you say um, you don't say chief,will you sellers, you say the
Williams Lake first station,because we are a team here at
WLF N.
Aaron Pete (01:15:50):
That sounds good.
I will definitely do that.
Thank you again for beingwilling to do this.
It's always a pleasureconnecting with you.
I think we're gonna have to doit in person one of these days.
Chief Willie Sellars (01:15:59):
You know I watch a lot of Joe Rogan, so
maybe we can even talkconspiracy theories and Indian
country and all those kind ofcool things too, but we're not
sitting across from each otherexactly, yeah, we'll have to
have you in studio.
Aaron Pete (01:16:10):
If you're ever down in Chilliwack, come on down and
we'd love to host you.
Chief Willie Sellars (01:16:13):
Okay, it sounds good.
Awesome, Aaron, have a good oneyou.
Welcome back to another episode of the Bigger
than Me podcast.
Here is your host, aaron Peep.
As a council member for mycommunity, chewotho First Nation
, I'm always looking at otherleaders to see who are setting a
great example and who I canlook up to and follow in their
footsteps.
Today I'm speaking with anauthor, dancer and the chief of
(00:21):
Williams Lake First Nation.
My guest today is Chief WillieSellers.
Willie, I have been lookingforward to this.
I have been watching you onLinkedIn and you are doing so
many great things.
Would you mind just brieflyreminding people who you are and
the work you do?
Chief Willie Sellars (00:38):
We could wait up Cookbeat Willie Sellers
from Squex, the Gekkel,Esquimulu.
Hello, my name is Chief WillieSellers and I represent the
Williams Lake First Nation and Iam a part of Esquimulu.
I am very honored to be back.
I've had some good thingshappening, but you've been
(00:58):
killing it too, man.
Follow along at this risingstardom.
The studio keeps looking moreprofessional.
There's like a sound guy.
You know the Gekkels out herebefore we started.
Aaron Pete (01:12):
I appreciate it.
Are we able to start with yourreconciliation award that you
received a few months ago?
What was it like to receivethat?
You're always working behindthe scenes and it was such a
nice moment to see you receivethat.
What was it like?
Chief Willie Sellars (01:26):
Yeah, oh, man, it was.
You know you receive an awardlike that.
You think.
Do I deserve this award?
I feel like I'm fairly young,that there's more people that
are deserving of that award.
You know, I contemplate thesethings and I even debrief them
with our team about how I gethonored when it's really on all
(01:51):
of us here at WLFN.
You know we have such a strongand supportive council and we've
got great staff where, you know, I'm the figurehead of this
organization, of this government, of this community, like I am
not this person without all ofthem, and that's always.
You know what's going on in myhead.
I mean, we want to recognizethe team that we have.
(02:12):
But a big part of our eveningwas, you know how we've been
able to rekindle thisrelationship with the city of
Williams Lake.
You know you just have toGoogle the city of Williams Lake
and the Williams Lake FirstNation over the last, you know,
five years and there's crazyheadlines that have come out
where we've proactively wentafter council and the mayor and
(02:35):
asked people to step downbecause of statements that they
made.
And you fast forward to 2023-24and we have a great
relationship with the city ofWilliams Lake.
We're working on artwork forour airport with an overlapping
First Nation hot suit in thecity of Williams Lake and the
Kerber Regional District.
We, you know we were going toceremonies together.
(02:56):
We were going to holdceremonies at the mayor's house
over Christmas.
You know some interesting foodoptions, but like tasty it would
be an understatement and theway that we've been able to
build towards thisreconciliation discussion even
with them, and promoteIndigenous, non-indigenous
(03:18):
relationships for the region tothe better, it's been such a fun
ride and to be acknowledged forthat is just crazy.
The whole ceremony was prettywild too.
It was at government house.
I'm not sure if you've everbeen there, but it's this
massive house like on the hillin Victoria.
You go in and that's where theLieutenant Governor lives, and
(03:41):
you know we were.
My schedule is like reallycrazy.
You know I have four kids andwe were just talking about it
earlier.
It's playoff season, so it's abusier than usual right now with
the hockey rinks.
But you know, on top of thatwe've got a number of different
things going on.
So the only time that I couldfind to fly out to government
house for this reconciliationaward ceremony was the morning
(04:03):
of.
So we got there.
The award ceremony started at5.30.
We roll into government houseat 5.
And it was that big snowfall inVancouver, Victoria, so like we
were 60K from the airport thewhole way, it we barely made it.
Next morning we flew out 5.45amto Salt Lake City for a whole
other story.
(04:24):
But you know, it was a bit of awhirlwind week for us, that one
with this reconciliation awardand, of course, sundance Film
Festival.
Aaron Pete (04:34):
Can I ask about how you process reconciliation?
How do you think about it?
Because so many people talkabout the past and what has gone
on, and there's truth thatneeds to be told in that regard
and the challenges thatIndigenous people have faced.
But then there's the lookingforward, and how do we overcome
these obstacles?
How do we create momentumwithin First Nation communities
(04:57):
to rise above the pastatrocities and continue forward
and to flourish and grow andshare their gifts?
How do you think about thebalance that needs to be struck
between looking at the past andlooking at the future?
Chief Willie Sellars (05:08):
I mean it's such a valid, you know
point that you bring up.
It is a balance.
We have this debate all thetime.
We have this conversation andthe dialogue with our elders and
with our membership and withother leaders all the time about
you know how we manage ourtraditional territories even.
You know we have that sovereigngroup that anti-industry,
(05:29):
anti-pipeline, and yeah, I meanwe can support them.
But then we also have thisother side where you know we
need housing, we needinfrastructure, we need better
programs and services and I meanyou really go down the list and
all these things cost money.
So I mean it is a balance thatwe need to find in this
(05:49):
reconciliation discussion.
It is really at the heart ofthat.
You know, as the provincial andfederal governments start
holding up UNDRIP and we starthonoring, you know, the vision
around reconciliation, it'sleveling the playing field.
It is a big part of that havingthe conversations and making
those uncomfortableconversations comfortable.
(06:11):
You know there is this massivemovement in this country right
now around, I guess, recognizingthe legacy and the history of
residential schools.
You know, with that has comeinvestigations across the
country which you know, one ofwhich we are leading here at
WLFN in regards to the StJoseph's Mission and it's
(06:34):
sparked a lot of, you know, hateand untruths and just negative
feedback towards some of ourcommunities and some of our
peoples.
But I mean, what it's alsodoing is it's uncovering the
truth that make peopleuncomfortable and invite.
By doing that and holding upour culture and really focusing
(06:55):
on language ceremonyrevitalization, we're starting
to see, you know, those eldersand those ancestors, those
survivors, be brave and startingto have that conversation,
helping us educate thenon-indigenous peoples of our
regions.
And while that is happening,you know, the cycle is being
broken in our opinion, which isa big part of what
reconciliation is.
(07:15):
It's an education, but it'salso, you know, creating more
allies.
I found where you know, before,when we would strike a deal or
we'd have a major project or wewould conclude a settlement or
an agreement with a majorproponent in our traditional
territory, there would beanimosity from the
non-indigenous population, wherethey're just like, you know,
(07:37):
why do we get that?
And that's not fair and that'sour tax-paying dollars.
I mean you hear thoseconversations often, but now
it's like, you know, hell yeah,williams Lake First Nation.
We got to continue to supportwhat they're doing because
they're making our region lookbetter and that is a win for all
of us.
Now they have to realize that wehave to work together in these
(07:58):
conversations and when we have amassive victory at WLFN, we get
an award or we sign anagreement or we start a business
, that money, that money andthat recognition is like
bolstering our economy here.
That money is staying here.
That conversation about howgood a place that is is here.
Now itd's us realizing thatbalance that you talked about
(08:24):
and then just doing our part tomake it a better place, not just
for the Williams Lake FirstNation but for the city of
Williams Lake and the CarverRegional District.
Now there's lots of things thatwe should be working on
together and it would be a loteasier if we were working
together, but now thoseconversations are easier said
than done.
Just got to continue to movetowards that common goal.
Aaron Pete (08:45):
Can I ask about reclaiming the St Joseph's
Mission Indian ResidentialSchool?
How did that process come aboutand what did it mean?
Chief Willie Sellars (08:54):
Yeah, so you know we've.
We had the Prime Minister herein our community.
That brought a ton of profileto the region.
He came and he visited the siteof the former residential
school of St Joseph's Mission.
That is the residential schoolthat my dad went to, my grandma
and numerous others frommultiple nations throughout this
(09:17):
region and really through theprovince of British Columbia.
So far, through ourinvestigative works we've
identified over 50 nations or 50communities, sorry, that are
represented, with children atthat school.
No, but it wasn't just theWilliams Lake First Nation
school, it was.
You know, there was sequemnkids that went there, there were
Chilcotine kids, stallium, deGeath, new Hall.
(09:39):
You had done a list of kidsthat went there.
I mean it was pretty scary.
There are very many goodstories that came out of that
school, a lot of trauma and alot of triggers.
So when the announcement of the215 came out of KIB, we started
, you know, down our own path,our own investigation and
(10:00):
working collaboratively with theprovince of British Columbia,
with the federal government, andmaking sure that we had the
funding and the resources andsupport but that we were leading
those works.
And of course we hold upceremony in that conversation.
But what we found is it'sresulted in us, you know,
(10:24):
further reinforcing that there'sa lot of healing that needs to
happen in our communities.
You know it's not just, like Isaid, a Williams Lake First
Nation concern.
Initially it is an indigenousissue.
Now, why aren't our kidslearning about the residential
schools in the curriculum of ourschool districts and our
territories?
No, I never learned about them.
(10:44):
I'm not sure about you, butwe're starting to see that
movement where curriculum ischanging and those teachers and
those educational institutionsare starting to hold up and
educate individuals on thatstory.
And I mean that is just asimportant as the work that's
going on over there.
We want to be able to breakthat cycle and you know, on the
other side of that, we still getconversations and we still get
(11:07):
comments with our survivors andour elders around.
You know they don't want totalk about it anymore and they
don't want to hear about itanymore and that's in the past.
But by keeping that mainstreammedia we've been able to
continue to make sure that workis getting done, which is not
easy.
I mean I hold up ourinvestigative team that Whitney
(11:29):
Spearing, sharon Belle, you,nancy Sandy I mean those are
Charlene and Nancy.
Those are two former chiefsthat are really spearheading
that interview investigativepiece with our research team led
by Whitney Spearing, and I justyou know you hold them up in
(11:49):
your thoughts and your prayerson a daily basis because of how
intense that work is.
So in our territory where StJoseph's Mission is located,
it's all private property there.
So it's private property wherethe school used to sit in the
outbuildings.
Then it's private property asyou move out into the valley,
more private property as you getto the edges of the valley, on
(12:10):
top of the valley, and as westart ground truthing the, I
guess, the properties, you startto realize how complicated it
gets.
Right away, through interviewsor research through the archives
, we're bringing those survivorsout onto the grounds and having
(12:32):
them tell our stories and showus, you know, areas of interest
to get the start with the ground, penetrating radar works.
But when you're dealing withmultiple property owners it gets
so much more tough Becauseyou're like really kind of you
know, hoping and so far so good.
It's been really great with theprivate property owners.
But I mean they could stop thoseworks if they wanted.
(12:53):
And that's the biggest fear andthat's where we push the feds
and we work collaboratively withBrooks and Shannon Waddell on
that 14 acre parcel where theschool used to sit, and we were
able to find some success andpurchase that 14 acre parcel
where the school sat, where thegym sits, numerous other
outbuildings, where the nunsused to stay and the priests
(13:16):
used to stay, for example, andwhere the graveyard is the
historical graveyard that sat inthat valley.
So I mean that has alleviated alot of the pressure around
making sure that we can continueto get those works done.
You know it's brought ustogether as a team and as a
community and it's just made theconversations easier on how we
(13:38):
move forward and chart that pathand it gives us peace of mind
of what we can make that site,because that's also going to be
a big part of it.
You know there's maybeeventually we get to an
excavation, exhumationconversation that brings all the
communities together inceremony.
(13:59):
But you know what about afterthat and how we make that site
into a place of healing asopposed to a place of anger and
frustration, because you knowpeople want to gather there and
we've got to make it safe and wewant to make sure that we honor
the ancestors that are buriedthere.
Aaron Pete (14:21):
This is a very complicated subject, and I don't
know if you saw that Iinterviewed Candice Malcolm, and
the organization she founded,true North Media, wrote a book
called Grave Error, where shedisputes a lot of these claims.
She questions it a lot of it,and I did my best to have a
sensitive conversation with her.
(14:42):
Where we start with, these arehuman beings.
These are individuals who wereconnected and had family members
and loved ones and never got toreach their full potential.
One of the places we startedwith, though, was she pushed
back and said Do you reallythink that nuns and these types
of people were just letting kidsdie and letting them be
(15:02):
murdered and that that was justgoing on in Canada and nobody
cared?
That was one of her firstcomments, and I'm wondering what
your perspective on that is.
Chief Willie Sellars (15:12):
I mean I've heard those stories
firsthand of the horrific thingsthat happened at that school
that is known as St Joseph'sMission.
So I would contest her rightaway in India the comments that
she makes, that's calling ourelders liars.
And when you see the emotion,you hear the stories and you
(15:37):
look at the abuse that has beendone to date and then you look
at that archival works, thecharges that were filed,
historically and taking thosepriests to tasks, and there
there is no a legacy of horrificacts.
So I don't know how she wouldwant to say otherwise.
(15:59):
I mean it's documented.
But I think you know there isalways going to be naysayers and
when we think about you know, Idon't know, I want to talk
about proving them wrong,getting to a place of excavation
(16:20):
and you will never prove thatthose anomalies or reflections
are on marked graves until youdo that.
So it eventually will probablyget to that place, but it's
going to take time and there's alot of healing that needs to
happen for that to take place aswell.
I mean you look at even oursite and where we're at and
(16:43):
where we're going.
I mean we could still be a yearor years away from that
conversation and that's you know.
Maybe that's even beingambitious.
There are a lot of communitiesthat are saying they don't want
to do that, and that's somethingthat we're going to have to
weigh into the decision makingof how we move forward in the
(17:03):
year and coming years.
Aaron Pete (17:05):
One of the other comments that she made was that
the Truth and ReconciliationCommission took place and they
know exactly how many studentswent there and how many students
passed away due to illnesses orlike.
Her claim is that that's allalready been documented and so
if there were missing children,they would have been documented
(17:26):
in the National Truth andReconciliation Commission, and
so this work is already complete.
And my counter points to herwas one if you did lose a child
in an organization like this,there would be incentives to
cover it up, to not have thosestories told, and that many
people were fleeing from thesecircumstances, and so there
would be arguments that they ranaway and so they were never
(17:48):
documented leaving.
What are your thoughts on thefact that some of these people
may not be documented?
Chief Willie Sellars (17:53):
100% facts .
You hear even stories at StJoseph's Mission.
I mean, these are publicstories that are even told in
the sugarcane documentary thatis going to be coming out later
this year, made public, and kidsgetting thrown in an
incinerator.
(18:14):
I mean, how do you approachthat without getting emotional?
Extremely challenging anddifficult and the amount of
trauma that comes from evenhearing a story like that is
something that we have to livewith and hold up the individuals
(18:34):
that are telling it in a waythat is super challenging.
The mental health and wellnessof our survivors is of utmost
importance in this language,ceremony, culture,
revitalization, discussion thatwe continue to have.
They fought so hard to give usthis life that we have as
(18:57):
Indigenous Peoples in ourcommunities that we have the
ability to celebrate that partof our history.
You know, speaking our languageand singing our songs and
participating in ceremony andsometimes we take it for granted
and we need to get passionateabout it again to honor and hold
(19:20):
them up.
And really, you know, fightback to those individuals that
are calling us liars or sayingthat it's not true and it's a
money grab.
I mean you can't put a pricetag on the health and wellness
of our community.
It's just something that needsto be done.
Aaron Pete (19:43):
On that point.
I'd just like to point out thatlike and I'm hoping you can
share your story as well mymother was born with fetal
alcohol syndrome disorder as aconsequence of her mother
enduring St Mary's Indianresidential school here in the
Fraser Valley, and so when Ithink about it, I go through the
atrocities and the terribletrauma that my grandmother must
(20:05):
have lived through in order tosurvive that and then have
children, and then she hasmultiple children, and then
those children are born withthat same intergenerational
trauma.
But there's hope in having achild that things can improve.
And so to me I have aresponsibility to lead the
community the best I can, tolead my family the best I can,
(20:28):
to set a positive example, toshow that we can break these
cycles, as you were talkingabout earlier, and that we can
show that we are resilient andthat we can overcome these
things.
But that thinking about thingsin a seven generations lens is
encouraging in that you knowthat people sacrificed so much
that you could never comprehendin order for you to be here
today, and that is a sharedstory, I think, for so many
(20:51):
people, if their parents foughtin World War II or World War I,
that we, many of us, have astory where our families fought
for us to be here today and itovercame horrendous odds in
order for us to be here, and weshould be grateful for that and
appreciate it, and I'm justwondering if you can share your
perspective on that.
Chief Willie Sellars (21:10):
I mean it is totally true and you know
that healing piece of a big partof it is forgiveness.
And I think about the historythat I had and how fortunate I
am that my mum raised me and youknow she is an indigenous woman
who raised just on the reservein community of WLFN and she
(21:33):
instilled hard work and goodvalues and, you know, at the
same time did her best to holdup who we are as indigenous
people and what it means to besequem.
You know I had a lot ofanimosity towards my dad growing
up, and so did my sisters,because he was never around.
(21:54):
And you start to learn yourhistory and you start to learn
the traumatic experiences thatyour parents and your
grandparents and greatgrandparents went through and
you hear a story about howimportant it is to forgive in
order to heal.
(22:14):
And you know me and my dad havenever been closer.
But it took me a long time toget to that point, to understand
why he is the way that he isand make sure that me, as a
parent, isn't doing that samething, right?
I mean, you brought it up and Ithink you take the best
(22:39):
qualities of your parents anduse those with your own
teachings to raise your kids sothat you can put your kids into
a position to break that cycleIn generations from now.
You know we are not going to bedealing with that.
We are a generation removedfrom the Indian residential
school system in this countryand we are going to learn about
(23:00):
it and we are going to talkabout it.
But that same trauma thatimpacted my dad and
intergenerational trauma thatimpacted me isn't necessarily
going to have the same impact onour kids in future generations
from there.
So I mean it is exciting havingthese conversations too.
It is inspiring to think abouthow successful we are
(23:22):
considering and how successfulour kids and great grandkids and
grandkids and great kids aregoing to be moving forward.
We just have to continue to bethat mold and that model and
make our ancestors proud.
Every time I pick up that drum Ifeel a little bit better, even
(23:43):
if I am having a bad day.
Or every time you participatein ceremony you feel a lot more
pride.
We are seeing in our schooldistricts too, where kids are
proud to be indigenous, and itwasn't necessarily the case even
ten years ago, which is notthat long ago.
In our community here we have agreat powwow culture and we
(24:04):
have two powwows per year Ourfather's day powwow that happens
June 14th to 16th this year wehave a plug in here and of
course, our set of powwow thathappens September 6th to 8th.
We have a gorgeous arbor thatour community actually built 25
years ago, and 20 years ago youstart to see more and more of
(24:24):
these kids dancing and wantingto pick up that regalia and the
amount of pride and how proudour elders are seeing that.
It is so unbelievable to seeand that is just like one piece.
The idea is that we need tocontinue to make them proud,
both present day and into thefuture.
Aaron Pete (24:45):
Would you mind also sharing?
You have a book Hockey with Dadand then you go and get to
dance at a Canucks game.
Can you tell us that story?
Chief Willie Sellars (24:55):
It is one of my most favorite life moments
.
We are a die hard Canuckscommunity here or die hard
family.
I grew up watching the Canucksthrough the trials and
tribulations of winning andlosing and making cup finals and
not winning the grand prize.
I did not start powwow dancingvery long ago Just into my
(25:20):
second year now and I got greatmentors here in community.
I look at a dancing water sandyor Lenny Supernult and just how
they have been able to kind ofcoach me along and give me good
tips and advice even WilliamLulawa, who is 18 years old, who
coaches being on how to be apower dancer on the moves and
(25:42):
even how I should do a betterjob staying hydrated, which is
something that seems simple butis often overlooked when you are
having fun out in the dancesurface.
Of course, the Canucks weresuper fans.
I got approached by JoannaSparrow and she she asked if I
would be available to speak onTruth and Reconciliation Day or
(26:05):
profile around what we've beenable to do and how we've been a
part of this reconciliationdiscussion and investigative
works at St Joseph's Mission,where we've got me on the radar,
and they wanted me to come andbe a part of September 30th
National Day of Truth andReconciliation, or a sure day
with the Vancouver Canucks.
I was going to get to speak andbe a part of the puck draw and
(26:25):
I was like, you know, there wasno hesitation, yes, I will do
that and I'm super stoked to dothat.
And then they phoned me onTuesday and they said, hey,
would you be willing to dance atcenter ice in between the
periods?
And I said, yeah, no hesitation, Can I bring somebody?
They said, yeah, I'm bringingWilliam Bellew.
(26:46):
Then he's a band member, he isone of my power mentors, he is
an inspiration to me.
And then they phoned me onThursday and they're like, hey,
can you speak to the dressingroom in the morning of Truth and
Reconciliation Day?
And they said, yeah, that seemssimple.
Oh man, I speak at a lot ofevents and when we did the puck
(27:09):
draw, my eight year old got tobe a part of the group that
dropped the puck.
We have this great picture inmy house now.
But speaking in front of 16,000people was not hard.
It was very easy for me and itwas not stressful at all.
But earlier that day, goinginto the dressing room and
(27:31):
speaking to the VancouverCanucks players about what Truth
and Reconciliation and whatthis day means for Indigenous
peoples is probably the moststressed I've ever been at a
speaking engagement the moststressed, arguably, that I've
ever been in my entire life.
I walk into the room and allthose guys in there they're
(27:53):
legit my heroes.
You got Pederson and Miller andDemko, Rick Talkets sitting to
my right, Quinn Hughes you havecoaches like the Sadeen brothers
.
It was really a surreal momentand I always like to speak from
(28:14):
the heart in these instances.
That's one of the things that alot of former leadership has
taught me.
You know ones like Ann Louieand Nancy Salindy or like Rick
Gilbert, really out front.
You go down the list and thatwas such a cool moment.
Once all of that was done, thenwe still got to stay in the
(28:37):
bowels of the building atRoger's Centre.
You're like a kid in a candystore and you're in awe.
In the hallways down where theZambonis are, you get our own
little dressing room for VIPswhere our regalia is all set up
and we're starting to get readyto dance.
This is the fun part, the coolpart.
Earlier that day we got to goout there when the building was
(28:57):
empty and we got to practice onthis little 10 by 10 mat or 10
by 20 mat or whatever it is.
Under the Jumbotron you hearthe music just blasting.
There's just a crazy amount ofpride and excitement that comes
(29:18):
with Pawao and Pawao Music whenwe're looking at getting to do
that to help a team that youlove and get to honour
Indigenous people in a packedstadium.
It was a surreal moment.
That was the easiest andfunnest part was a dancing piece
(29:39):
.
I keep hounding the VancouverCanucks for that footage, for
those pictures, but I haven'tgotten it yet.
I don't know, maybe I'm savingit.
Aaron Pete (29:50):
That would be amazing to be able to watch and
be able to replay and share withthe community.
I'm wondering, and I don't meanto put a damper on it, but I'm
just wondering how you thinkabout these moments, because
I've heard comments.
Ainez Louie from the Stoloregion called out the Canucks at
one point in time.
She was going to go sing theCanadian National Anthem, I
believe, and the financial offerI think the Canucks were making
(30:13):
was not in line with what shewas looking for.
I just sort of think about someIndigenous people have this
perspective of like there's toomuch tokenism going on or
there's a fear of tokenism.
Does that ever cross your mindwhen these opportunities come up
, A fear that you're not gettingthe respect you deserve?
Or is that easy for you toprocess?
Chief Willie Sellars (30:33):
Yeah, it's tough and I mean maybe it's a
little bit easier for me.
You know, like I'd do thosethings for free.
I think it's not even acontemplation.
It was funny when they asked melike I had a list of demands
and they're just like no, and Isaid okay, well, I don't care,
(30:55):
this is my team and I'm going todo it anyways.
And you have thoseconversations afterwards like
we're able to secure a handfulof tickets for members.
We were able to secure ahandful of tickets for some of
the kids that were down there onmy son's hockey team and that
was good enough payment for me.
(31:18):
I understand the importance ofmaking sure that we pay and we
honor our artisans and ourcultural leaders, because I know
how it is in our community.
Even here at WLFN we have fourcultural workers on staff.
They make an annual salary andwe try and hold up and honor the
importance of those individualsin our community because we
(31:39):
know how detrimental they are toour healing as a community and
our revitalization discussionthat we continue to bring up.
But you know there is again Imean you continue to talk about
it, even you had mentioned itearlier this balance that we
need to strike.
You know it's very easy to callindividuals down on both sides
(32:01):
of the table, but I mean we needto see progress and if I'm
making a sacrifice to see thatprogress and I'm being a part of
that movement in a good way,hopefully what it does is it
blaze that trail so that youknow it's easier and individuals
are fairly compensated fortheir time and how they hold up
(32:24):
Indigenous peoples in thiscountry.
But I mean it's way easier forme than it was 10 years ago for
those leaders, 20 years ago forthose leaders.
I just had this conversation atlunch actually about, you know,
you think about how grandiosethe AFN personation summit,
ubcic, is, in regards to howeasy it is for me as a leader to
(32:46):
get down there and be a part ofit and participate.
You can participate virtuallynow or you can fly down, drive
down when you're in a hotel.
You have a per diem.
It's super easy and simple.
You just have to find the timeto go where.
I mean you look historically andthose leaders were carpooling,
hitchhiking, sleeping on parkbenches, getting apartments
(33:12):
together and sleeping on floorsand on couches and in bathtubs,
just so that they could makethose meetings, so they could
make it easier for futureleadership to have, say, at the
table with the provincial andfederal government.
So I mean it is a balance there.
I mean you don't want to be atoken I understand that part of
the conversation but you want tomake sure that you are being a
(33:33):
part of making it easier forfuture generations.
So it's a tough, a toughbalance to find, for sure just
like anything else For theVancouver Connect, though I
would have hitchhiked down theremyself if I had to.
Aaron Pete (33:48):
Well said, I'm wondering if you could describe
what it's like to be a chiefwith somebody who is
non-indigenous, somebody whodoesn't understand.
Often we get compared tomunicipalities, but I do find
that our housing is completelydifferent, Like so many.
Processes on reserve are sounique.
Culture is key within FirstNation communities in a
(34:11):
different way that it would befor a municipality.
Would you mind describing whatbeing a chief means in
comparison to other leadership?
Chief Willie Sellars (34:20):
Yeah, I mean it is like being.
I mean obviously it's differentthan a municipality or a
provincial or federal government, but I mean it's fairly similar
, except that every single oneof your constituents has access
to your cell phone, nose whereyou live and for the most part
you know, grew up with you,knows who you are on a very
(34:41):
personal level and I think aboutyou know we've had these
conversations in the past withour non-indigenous staff and
individuals that we bring in tohelp provide better programs,
services, policies, etc.
In our community.
It's like you know, there'sthis hybrid model that we need
(35:02):
to have in regards to governance.
That isn't necessarily like amunicipality, because we have to
hold up the history of who weare as Indigenous peoples and
what our governance looks like.
That is not an easy question toanswer by any stretch of the
means.
But you know I look at themisconceptions that you always
have with non-indigenous peoplearound.
(35:24):
We don't pay taxes, we don'tpay for housing, we don't pay
for education.
Everything just comes to us forfree, and I mean we are
supported by the federalgovernment.
I look at our staff here wehave 108 staff now, 50% of which
is paid for by funding that weget flying and scraping from the
(35:44):
federal government.
The rest comes from own sourcerevenue from successful
businesses, from agreements thatwe signed through.
You know our own means, our ownblood, sweat and tears and you
know what we get from the fedsisn't enough to provide proper
(36:06):
programs, services for ourcommunity.
You know I'll continue toimprove the housing crisis that
every single one of us has,improve our infrastructure and
make sure that we have cleandrinking water and proper sewer
system.
People take these things forgranted, but you know it is
stressful on a day to daybecause we are in charge of all
of that.
(36:26):
But you know, as a chief, youare the figurehead of that
community, of our governmenthere at WLFN.
But I am one person at thatcouncil table and I mean I'm
sure that you can relateEveryone puts the chief of a
bunch of pedestal and they getall the glory also get all the
crap.
But you know it's I'm not theone that's going in there and
(36:48):
like changing everything andmaking decisions by myself.
We make that as a collective,but we also make that on the
advice and guidance of the staffthat we have.
That is also something that weare very blessed with here at
WLFN We've been able to developa lot of capacity, both in-house
, bring a lot of capacity inthat allows us to do these
(37:09):
things and do them in a timelymanner.
Now it's not as easy as like,hey, we want a new rec center or
we want a new administrationbuilding.
You know, make a statement likethat it's, you know it's very
complex thinking about.
You know, where is that moneygoing to come from to build it?
You know, going through theengineering, the detailed
(37:30):
engineering, the site prep, Imean you, these things take
years and that's where, that'swhere I've been really blessed
again, in all honesty, is mytiming seems to have always been
really good.
Former leadership did a ton ofwork and really set things up
for me so that when ouradministration got in, some big
(37:52):
things happened right away.
And you know it's like, wow,chief Willie's doing all these
things.
But it's that formeradministration, which I was also
a part of, that set that up inthe timing just worked out when
we were able to get in.
But now we continue to raisethat bar to do it and we have
non-digious people coming in andasking us you know what does it
(38:13):
mean to be chief and how greatit is.
You know what?
They don't see them.
And they see that positivefront that we always put on but
they don't see.
You know some the stuff thatreally weighs in on your mental
health, you know, weighs in onyou as a dad and you get those
in any kind of politics andthat's probably the toughest
(38:35):
part of all of us is weighingthat for the better good of our
community.
No, I'm not shy to shed a tearcry or not shy to Don't speak to
our elders or talk to atherapist.
And you know, go play hockey acouple times a week because
that's what helps me find mybalance.
(38:57):
But you know, you only can dowhat you can do and Membership
recognizes that.
But but again, I always fallback on.
They have to recognize ourcouncil and our team here,
because they're pretty specialtoo.
Aaron Pete (39:10):
May I ask about your election process?
When I first ran on council formy community, we didn't have
any processes like Like a debateportion or an all candidates
meeting where people can get toknow our community.
Still, very much a vote it'sbased on whose last name is big
in the community and you have afew big families that vote for
(39:31):
their kin and it's the Hatfieldsin the McCoys Continuously
where they're battling forgrounds and they're making
decisions in the best interestof their family and luckily I'm
from a relatively small lastname.
But I ran on a platform.
I went forward.
I held all candidates meetings.
Only a few people showed up.
I posted a lot on Facebook.
I did an interview with thelocal reporter.
(39:52):
I said what I wanted toaccomplish and what I thought I
could bring to the table.
That was unique and I came insecond place for both running
for chief and running forcouncil and I believe that I was
in large part because I wasrunning on something I was.
I was saying what I was gonnado rather than just running on
my last name.
And I'm wondering how yourelections go and do you have any
(40:13):
processes that I could bring infor my next election that have
worked for you, or that seemedto bring out the best ideas
rather than just the last names.
Chief Willie Sellars (40:23):
Yeah, well , I mean my first Plan of
attacks.
I just got to continue to havekids and eventually they all
become voting, just kidding.
But we have a custom electioncode here at WLFN so we run in
four year staggered terms.
So the next election isactually this summer.
There'll be three councilpositions up for grabs and you
(40:46):
know some people say it's apopularity contest.
But again, I mean I, I come fromthe same background as you.
I mean you lead by example, youshow the community that you
care.
You know you bring a certainset of skills that may be a
little bit different than otherpeople, but your passion for the
community is a big part of whatour membership will recognize
(41:07):
Now.
They see you at communityevents, they see you Talking and
in port, portraying thispositive image of not only who
you are but where you come fromand what nation you're from.
And there is a respect piecethat comes with all of that.
I mean we always have to carryourselves in a good way and I
figured that I always have atWLFN Ever since I was a kid and
(41:29):
it comes from those teachingsfrom my mom and you know I did
certain teachings from my dad toand my family on both sides.
But Making sure that themembership knows who you are is
the key piece, where you know ifthere is a debate or an open
forum.
We have that as well throughour custom election code and you
(41:50):
got to make sure youparticipate in those.
I mean it could be thedifference.
But you also just Want to makesure that people are making
informed decisions when they'regoing to the polls and it isn't
just based on family, because Imean, I mean you need the best
people that you can in thesepositions because they're making
decisions on behalf of all ofyou and no, that has drastic
(42:13):
impacts on Not just thisgeneration but future generation
, seven generations from now,like you were saying earlier.
And you know it's good havingthe staggered terms I think for
here at WLFN, because then youget consistency in that
leadership group.
So there isn't a huge upheaval,you know, every every four
years.
And what what I found is?
(42:34):
You know it's been veryconsistent.
We've always had a good counselsince I've been in this role.
But but you know there wasthere was always great voices at
the table that challenged theadministration that currently
was in.
I remember even me.
I used to.
I used to have full-onarguments and yelling matches
with former G fan Louis, and Ithink that is healthy.
(42:56):
I think that's probably why sherespects me the way that she
does and it's why I have alwaysrespected her Is she would never
back down and she was always sopassionate and I took great
lessons out of that even to thisday.
You know she's so strong.
She's back at the council tablenow and we don't have those
(43:18):
same yelling matches, but butshe always, you know, puts me in
my place and then it gives me alesson when it's needed, which
is also very important to me.
It's good to have thosecompeting minds, but at the end
of the day, when we do makedecisions, I always say this we
all support that decision movingforward and we Put that united
(43:40):
front out so that membership cansee that we are strong, and I
think that's benefited.
That's in the short term andthe long term here where we come
from and our small part of theinterior.
Aaron Pete (43:51):
I've written an opinion editorial and basically
the thesis is that I think mymain concern moving into the
future is I think first-nationcommunities need to be somewhat
be treated like a municipality,in that those council meetings
are public record and that thereshould be reporters that are
able to come and ask Questionsand make sure that we're leading
(44:11):
properly, because the tragedythat I see with other
first-nation communities thatare still in poverty is
sometimes those leaders aren'tbeing accountable for taking
action, for taking necessarysteps and for moving forward.
So we have communities thatlike yours, that shed a beacon
of light for communities likemine to go.
We want to move in thatdirection and your health
building looks amazing and wewant to move and we want to be
(44:33):
more like that.
But then I see othercommunities and they're stuck in
the same slumps.
They were when I was a kid andthey haven't moved anywhere.
And I think healthy journalismwould be able to highlight and
help inform that dialogue.
Not all not all members Knowwhat questions to ask or how to
phrase the question or how toget an answer, but journalists
certainly do and they know howto hold leadership accountable
(44:55):
and ask the necessary questions.
And I think right now one of thefears that so many people have
is Insulting a first-nationcommunity or coming on to the
land inappropriately or do, andof course, there's a place for
that but when we're talkingabout getting first-nation
communities out of poverty, thishas to be a part of the
conversation, in my opinion, tomake sure that the leaders are
(45:16):
actually delivering on what theysaid they were going to do and
that there isn't just thepositive stories, that there's
tough stories to where we findout this leader isn't on the up
and up and they need to beremoved from office and another
leader needs to step in, so thatwe don't stay in these ruts for
20, 30 years and so that wedon't have such a huge
discrepancy between Successfulfirst nations and unsuccessful
(45:37):
first nations when leadershipseems to be the challenge.
Do you have any perspectives onthat?
Chief Willie Sellars (45:42):
Yeah, I mean it's the timing of you
asking that question is justcrazy.
We had a community meeting lastnight and it was the discussion
around Williams Lake firstnation pursuing a
self-government agreement,starting a rights and
recognition table with thefederal government moving the
direction.
You know, for the last 30 yearswe've been in the treaty
process.
There's been a ton of amazingwork that has happened.
(46:04):
30 years ago, 3d was really theonly option to be a
self-determining first nationachieving self-government.
Legislative landscape haschanged significantly over the
last 30 years with numerouscourt cases that have changed,
you know, and Evolved and givenus additional options.
So a self-government agreementis something that we wanted a
(46:25):
table with the community and Getsome feedback and have some
conversation around.
Is this something that appealsto you and that you would
support?
No, we figure we have themandate through the treaty
process because aself-government agreement is a
part of that process.
Anyways, so paralleling the twowould be a benefit.
You know we would put theneeded pressure on the
government so that we can, youknow that, achieve one of them
(46:49):
in a timely manner instead ofwaiting another decade or more.
But you know, one of thecomments that we had at our
community meeting last night isfrom one of you know I don't
know how you terminate a radicalIndividual saying we don't have
community meetings and we needto be more transparent and our
communications suck and sick.
(47:10):
Okay, well, let's just unpackthat for a second.
And you know I'm always quickto say, and even said it last
night you were not going to hurtmy feelings or counsel's
feelings by asking questions.
No, all we ask is that you berespectful and you say to the
room you know we're not going toproactively go out there and
(47:31):
Comment and answer questions onaggressive social media posts,
but if you come into the officeand you want to have a
conversation, bring it on.
If you don't feel comfortablewith doing that, you know,
forward an email and answer, askthose questions and we're never
gonna, you know, judge anindividual for doing that.
I mean we want to be challenged.
At the end of the day it's.
(47:52):
It's healthy Conversation tohave in transparency, which is
what the membership wants, andwe're quick to rebut a last name
.
We've had numerous referendumsto move ourselves along in the
treaty process.
We have had.
We had our specific claimreferendum or land code
ratification referendum.
We have numerous meetings thatare more engagement sessions
(48:17):
around the direction of how weapproach industry.
So you know that there isBelatedly in the concerns that
we need to have more.
Yeah, I mean COVID reallyjammed us up in that
conversation, but I mean, nowwe're getting back out there and
we're starting to open back upand and that was one of my
comments to some of our teamtoday was man, we need to have
(48:38):
more community sessions, justeven information sessions about
what's going on, so that peoplecan feel more comfortable and
give a shit if they want to.
You know like those are myfavorite sessions because you
really get to hear what theconcerns are and In the last
thing we want to do is muzzlepeople and not feeling
comfortable but voicing theiropinion.
So moving towards open councilmeetings is another priority for
(49:01):
our administration.
I was talking to a member lastnight.
He said when is that going tohappen?
And I'm like I know I soundlike a broken record around
these things, but we have allthe latest and greatest
technology here at WLFN with ournew administration build.
It's going to happen.
We just need to make sure wedon't roll it out and fumble it,
and you know that is the taskto our team that we have with
(49:23):
our CAO and our communicationsgroup on how we tighten up our
Minute taking and our messagingand how those meetings are
structured in a way that is notgoing to Well.
That's going to keep us safe asas a council and as a community
because, really, once you openit up to membership and having
those public council meetings,the world is going to see them,
(49:47):
and that's something that weneed to be cognizant of and know
how to properly structure ourmeetings to reflect that.
Making sure that we're being astransparent as possible is
something that every communityshould strive for, because that
is often the misconception.
Indigenous country acrossCanada is that they're, you know
, protecting their hiding, theircorrupt and there's, you know
(50:10):
it, it's the same in everycommunity.
That's the one.
If I guess they're encouragingthings is that the same problems
that we're having here at WLFNare the same problems that are
that are that are Happening inevery single country.
Some of us are just, you know,getting better that how we deal
with them, but there's still,you know, we're not perfect here
.
There's still a ton of work todo on a number of different
(50:32):
fronts.
That Keep me awake at night.
Aaron Pete (50:36):
Yes, I just had an open house recently in regards
to housing and we had theMinistry of Transportation come
out.
Fraser Valley Regional Districtwe're working on getting 30 new
units.
We're working on how tocommunicate that and then
getting member feedback on howto design it, and I spoke with
all the stakeholders Afterwardson how they thought it went.
At times it got a little bitlouder, so I was like did
(50:58):
everything go okay, how are youfeeling?
And the response was howimpressed they were and how
passionate the membership wasabout sharing their thought.
I think for so many it's likeyou just don't have the
opportunity to say the one thingyou want this road to be Expand
it a little bit so that you canfit your, your bus, that you're
getting picked up for, yourkids for, and like these very
(51:19):
simple things that Communitymembers need to share.
And I'm always very cognizant ofmaking sure that, even if it
doesn't make sense at first,that I kind of steelman the
position and try and figure outwhat's the best part of that
argument and how can I carrythat piece forward.
Because there is this balanceof like.
If you put it out to the wholeworld to see, information can be
misconstrued or misunderstoodand you want to be cognizant
(51:40):
that certain information isn'tkind of going off in the wind.
I know whenever we're in aspecific claim now in my
community there's talks of likeoh, are we getting a payout, or
is membership getting a payout?
So like, how things arecommunicated is something you
have to be cognizant of.
But you never want membershipto feel that cut off and I
certainly sympathize that.
There's lots of tick-tockvideos out there about
(52:01):
indigenous leadership and how wecan do better.
Chief Willie Sellars (52:04):
I mean, it is so true and you get into
those community meetings andusually it's the loudest voice
that that really commands theroom and you know free housing
is one that's always thrown outthere.
Per capita payouts and thedebate that we have in our
community meetings around Peoplethat say things like that or
(52:25):
comments that are made on oursocial media, is that you know
we just won this specific claimthat was a 30-year court battle,
went to the Supreme Court ofCanada, went through the
tribunal process and we ended upsettling out 135 million.
We took 5 million, we did a percap, we paid off some bills, we
put some aside for someinfrastructure improvements, but
(52:47):
then we locked up 130 millioninto a community trust and there
was a ton of debate around howcould you do that?
You should be paying it all out.
This is BS and Like those arewhat the loud voices were saying
in it and if you don't lookclosely, I mean that's what you
think the entire community issaying.
But when we go to referendum,you know it's 90-plus percent
(53:11):
vote in favor of locking that upinto a community trust and
that's something that reallyopened my eyes around.
You know the loudest ones inthe room don't necessarily speak
for the room, and we have tomake sure that we keep that in
mind while making decisions onbehalf of the community.
You know it's easy to succumbto that loud voice and think
that they're speaking and partof, as part of the broader
(53:31):
community, but they're, for mostpart, not.
And Now there is no way and Isaid this in those engagement
sessions and to people thatwould talk to me is now I would.
I'm ready and willing to bevoted out to make sure that this
gets locked up into a communitytrust, because that isn't just
the legacy of this currentadministration or staff.
I mean that protecting thatmoney for future generations is
(53:54):
the legacy of every single elderand ancestor that fought for
that Specific claim and writingthat historical wrong over the
past 30 years and that was justso much more important.
I mean my kids will get a nicecheck to start the modern life
when they turn eight, when theyturn 18, then in every single
future kid moving forward whichis now pretty Crazy plus, I mean
(54:19):
the annual interest off of thatspecific claim is is gonna
allow us to do whatever we want.
Really, that, that is, that isa lot of money annually that
will come, be coming into WLFand long past I'm gone, and
that's something that we we'revery proud of.
But again, I mean it doesn'tcome with making sure that we
(54:40):
are being transparent andcommunicating with our
membership.
I mean simple Things like justeven returning a phone call to
members whether it's good newsor bad news, is what they want.
I mean, people want information, they want to be communicated
with, and Sometimes that's notEasy to do because it's not good
news, but it's something thatwe have to do.
(55:02):
We always have to make surethat we realize that we have our
positions and in in ourorganization Whether it's
achieving council or whetherit's a CAO or whether it's
social development seniormanager or senior manager of
education and we have jobsbecause of our members, and
that's the sick close to ourhearts when we're doing this
(55:23):
work too.
Aaron Pete (55:24):
That's beautiful.
I have two more questions.
One of them is a little bitlonger and I didn't just invite
you on for Altruistic reasons.
I actually would love yourperspective on my work on
council, so I'm going to give alittle bit of a rambling talk on
what I've been working on andI'd love to hear your feedback
on the end on where I could takethings.
We're about 18 months from ournext election, so I just love
your thoughts.
(55:45):
So I manage the portfolios forhousing, economic development
finance and tax.
On housing, when I joinedChihuahua First Nation, on their
council, we had no housingmanager, no housing plan to
repair the existing 89 homes inour community and no plan to
ever build new, new homes.
Since about 18 months agoSeptember 2022.
I've brought on a housingmanager.
(56:06):
We've repaired about 15 homes.
We have a plan in place torepair another 15 within the
next year, so and a long-termplan over the next three years
to repair all 89.
I would say when I came on, all89 had severe health or safety
issues in regards to them.
So we should have that resolvedby the time that my term is up,
or we should be on the way andthere should be shovels in the
(56:26):
Ground repairing those existinghomes.
We're putting in an applicationright now.
We did one for our hi 3 ForCMHC.
We were unsuccessful in thatbid because we didn't put in our
own source revenue.
Now we're working on a BChousing application for 30 units
and I'm optimistic that we'llsee results on that.
So housing is moving forward onall good fronts in that regard.
Then economic development when Icame on, everything was done in
(56:50):
house.
We didn't have an activeEconomic development corporation
that operated separate from ourFirst Nation community.
So we've gotten that up andrunning.
We have three board members.
We're working on getting up tofive and they're now dealing
with the responses onprocurement and processes and
what we're looking for, andwe're working on an economic
development plan in that regardso that we can operate based on
(57:11):
what the members actually wantand what jobs and Businesses
they'd like to see started inthe community.
So that's moving in a reallygood direction.
And then for finance, we werethree years behind on our audits
and come March we should becaught up on all of our audits.
We're working on bringing in acontroller so they can manage
all of the finances and makesure that we stay up to date.
And then we're now implementingbudgeting for all of the
(57:33):
departments, which we didn'thave previously.
So that is also all beingsorted out and we're working on
getting approved by FF FirstNations Financial Management
Board certification and weshould have that in the
following year, which willlikely be 2025 by the time that
we're starting to get approvedon all of those fronts.
And then taxes we were on theprevious system and now we're
working on getting up to date onthe new federal system that
(57:56):
goes outside of the Indian Actand that's moving quite well,
and then we'll start to havecertification by the provincial
authority on taxation.
Property assessment, pcassessment.
So that is where I'm at, butI'm very eager to continue the
momentum forward and I'mwondering what advice would you
have for a council member that Imight not have heard before and
(58:18):
how can I continue to do betterif I do choose to either run
for chief or council again in 18months?
How long are you term section?
Chief Willie Sellars (58:26):
three years.
So well done.
You know you, you listen to allthat work and I mean it is
inspirational even for me.
You know we have a massive teamof individuals that help us
move these things along WLF andI mean I am no, I am no cracker
(58:46):
jack when it comes to taxes andfinances, and but I mean that we
have individuals that are onstaff.
You know they deliver thevision that we have as a council
and its communities, like yours, that you know help give us
that mold, and we hear storieslike this you take that little
bit of what other communitiesare doing and you tailor them to
(59:06):
the needs of your own community.
One of the biggest pieces of thepieces of advice that I have
for anybody that's getting intoleadership is that to make sure
that they realize that they haveto be patient.
You know, like these thingsdon't happen overnight and we
see it time and time again.
People are running forleadership roles and their
territories is that they'regonna change the world Now.
(59:27):
They're gonna do this, they'regonna do that, and then they get
in there and it's just like youknow, there there is a
bureaucracy within indigenouscommunities, just the same as
there is with municipalities andProvincial governments and
federal governments.
I mean we can act a little bitquicker, obviously, but we need
to have the proper people inplace for that to to realize.
(59:47):
And Of course, you needcommunity support, which you
know you want to come in and you, you want, you want to fix 89
homes.
I mean, geez, that is, you know, an undertaking that could
potentially take decades ifyou're relying and waiting on
the federal government to do it,and I can imagine how
(01:00:08):
challenging it would have beenfor you to even get 15 and then
have the commitment foradditional homes in the future.
I mean, those are probably, youknow, pestering and Just being
aggressive on your calls withthe feds and just the
consistency of Of doing thatlike on a weekly basis, probably
to make sure to shake loosethat funding.
(01:00:29):
You know how you're partneringthat up with BC housing and and
and other Funding sources toMake sure that it happens.
And then, on the flip side ofthat, people are still screaming
for new homes.
I bet right.
And when people want new homes,subsidized homes or its free
homes, which isn't a reality inindigenous communities because
(01:00:53):
somebody has to pay for thatmortgage.
So if you're giving a free homeor or you're subsidizing homes.
That money comes from ownsource revenue and it's that
educational piece that we hadneed to make sure that we were
sharing with our members.
If you don't pay, well, I mean,how do you expect us to even
fix the homes?
And this is that recurringcycle that we see and and in and
(01:01:14):
also making sure that we'reeducating them how to properly
maintain their homes.
I mean, I'm a homeowner.
I owned a trailer and then Ieventually bought a house in
community here, built a house,got a mortgage.
You know you do the things thatneed to be done and like being
a homeowner is like stressful,you know, like looking at your
(01:01:36):
roof and making sure that you'reyou're maintaining your, your,
your plumbing and and and thesoft, I mean you really it's.
It's an educational piece thatI wish I had when I was growing
up.
And we think about wanting tomake change in in our
communities.
We just, you know, going backto we just have to make sure
(01:01:58):
that we are patient, but we arealso persistent that those
conversations are continuing tohappen on a weekly basis,
because I because I mean you youhave experienced it firsthand
if you're not continuouslyhounding those funding groups,
bringing it up at the counciltable.
You know they're never going tohappen.
It's that squeaky wheel that'sgoing to to get rewarded for the
(01:02:20):
most part, unless you're amassively successful community
and there's revenue streams thatare just flowing in and and
you're able to use that onsource revenue and allocated to
the different initiatives in thecommunity.
I mean, that's a that's areally cool conversation to you
know.
I look at Our community and thesuccess that we've had.
We're a resource based economyhere, I'm sure you sure you know
(01:02:44):
it's forestry, it's mining,it's pipeline.
We're trying to diversify, ofcourse, and we're doing our best
with our cannabis initiatives,amongst other things.
But you know, signing an impactbenefit agreement with the
local mine doesn't necessarilysit well with the entire
community, or Indian country forthat matter, but you know it,
(01:03:05):
signing that impact benefitagreement, creating that
relationship with proponents inthe territory and striking up
partnerships with, with, with,with industry, is about building
a revenue stream and having aseat at the table and finding
again going back to that balanceRight of being proper stewards
of the land and being able toprovide better programs,
services, housing, etc.
For your community.
All that, all of those thingscost money and that's the
(01:03:26):
balance that we need to continueto stress to our community and
we're not sellouts at WLFN.
But you know, we are doingwhat's best to make sure that we
can be better and we can seeprogress, so that we can make
sure that hoses are beingrepaired and people are working
and providing for their familiesand, and you know, the health
and wellness and the familyStructures continue to improve
(01:03:48):
in our communities.
You know, but again you go back.
These things don't happenovernight and we have to make
sure that we are being patientin how we approach them.
But as long as progress ishappening, we have to make sure
that we're.
Aaron Pete (01:04:03):
It was chief Clarence Louie who said it's the
economic development that pullsthe social cart, and I thought
that that was an apt statementto keep in mind for First Nation
communities who are facingthose challenges.
My last question for you,because you are such a great
leader, is what makes a greatleader in your perspective?
Chief Willie Sellars (01:04:27):
Oh man, I I've been blessed with good
timing.
We say that I got into Counseland I got to work under some
pretty amazing people.
I got to mentor under Imentioned her already Former
chief at Louis.
I got to mentor and sit besidethe late former chief and sat on
council the entire time I wasin leadership Rick Gilbert no,
(01:04:51):
chris Wycliffe, seniors at hertable.
Nancy Sandy, former chief, sheworks on our St Joseph mission
investigative team.
She is quick to put me in linealways and I feel that's because
she respects me.
We have to always make sure andhold up those former leaders,
(01:05:13):
because there's gonna be a pointin time when I'm not a leader
anymore and you know I I'd liketo hope that I will be respected
the same way that I respect ourformer leaders.
No, you always have to maketime for them and appreciate
their opinions and Respect thecomments that they make, because
they always make them in a goodway and they used to be in the
(01:05:34):
seat that you, that you're inright now I I Think about.
You know the lessons that I'vebeen told that could have, you
know, arguably got me removedfrom office or tainted my
reputation, or you know Just howthey were used as life lessons
(01:05:56):
to me Because of just howstressful this position is.
Right and you know, the lifethat we live is filled with
stress and anxiety and we'realways trying to find the
balance and and keep everybodyhappy.
But you know, everybody hastheir own issues, that that
happen in their own stressesthat happen.
(01:06:17):
We have to also make sure thatwe're respecting those as well.
So what makes a good leader,you know, being fair, being
honest and just making sure thatwe're making that time to
listen to every single one ofthose members that we have and
Holding up our elders and ourancestors that have, you know,
(01:06:37):
done it before and lived itbefore, and in honoring them at
the same time.
I mean, it's no easy task.
I Come off shiny, but you knowI've had a rocky road, just like
anybody else, which is, um, youknow, a part of the process.
It's funny, I had thisconversation with my dad the
(01:06:58):
other day and he was saying whatare you gonna do after you're
done as the chief?
What are you gonna do if youget elected out?
And I said I don't know.
Celebrate.
It's a stressful positionsometimes and you and, and he
freaked out, he's like what?
And I'm just like you know I'mhalf joking with you, dad but
(01:07:21):
like not having to worry on adaily basis about the direction
of the community and you knowhow we improve the health and
wellness and life of futuregenerations.
You know we'll still do that toan extent outside of leadership
, but you know, life wouldprobably get a little bit more
simpler, and then that's a goodthing too.
(01:07:42):
You know, I'd probably havemore time for family and more
time to to learn my language,for example, and those are also
important things.
Same conversation pivoted intoyou know, dad, when are you
gonna retire?
When are you gonna, you know,be an elder in our community?
And he's like I can neverretire.
(01:08:04):
I can, you know, but it's justlike no, seriously, you know why
don't you retire?
You come drive our elders bus.
You, you can work part-timebecause you know it's not a
full-time job, and then youcould also, you know, pick that
drum back up and learn yourlanguage and be an elder in our
community.
And you know you laughed like Iwas joking, but I was dead
(01:08:27):
serious.
You know we have to understandthe stress that gets put on our
leaders across Indian countryand recognize that as we move
forward and as we look at youknow, the future generation of
leaders that are coming up.
It's not an easy position.
It gets only even morechallenging when you factor in
all of the you know, socialmedia and access that people
(01:08:49):
have to you, because, really, Iam a phone call away from every
single one of our members and Iknow that because they phone me
all the time.
Sometimes they phone me to callme down, and sometimes they
phone me to thank me, andsometimes they phone me just to
have a conversation, and youknow we have access Across the
board on every single differentsocial media platform, and
(01:09:12):
Making sure that that we'rehonoring you know what each of
our leaders go through andholding them up at the same time
is very key to thatconversation.
That's the messaging that weneed to continue to have as we
move forward.
That conversation.
That's the messaging that weneed to continue to have as well
.
Aaron Pete (01:09:27):
Brilliant.
You have a few powwows comingup.
You mentioned the documentarycoming soon.
Would you mind telling peoplewhat's coming soon for you?
Chief Willie Sellars (01:09:34):
Yeah, we have our traditional powwow June
14th to 16th.
That'll be fun, more low-keybut still awesome.
We have our competition powwowSeptember 6th to 8th.
That is like the big show.
It's like the Stanley Cup forour territory here.
Last year we had Championshipdancers from all over Western
(01:09:54):
Canada.
We had nine drum groups, somebig ones from even Back East.
It was some show, you know wewe had some very talented
individuals in there.
You know I dance and I put in,you know, hundreds of hours
every summer, try and like besharp and in shape, and I don't
(01:10:16):
even touch the the talent thatcomes to our powwow in in
September and even, honestly, inIn June.
So we have those two.
Everyone is welcome.
We continue to level up on bothof them.
And then we have, of course, thedocumentary about our
investigative works over at StJoseph's Mission, which
(01:10:37):
premiered at Sundance in January.
We won I think it was a bestdirector award.
It got picked up by NationalGeographic, so it'll be
streaming on Disney Plus withinthe next six months sometime.
So, yeah, that that will be,you know, a big one.
It is something that you knowthe vision I Am in it like.
(01:11:01):
I'm not the star or anything,I'm just in it, which is, which
is cool.
But there's some reallyimportant stories that come out
of that About the history andlegacy of residential schools
and some of the atrocities thathappened.
But you know, the vision ofthat documentary will be that it
is added into the curriculum ofevery single school in this
(01:11:23):
country.
That's something that we'llpush for because it's an
important story to tell and itshould be a part of that
education of Canadians,indigenous, non-indigenous For
years and years and generationsto come.
So that's fun.
We'll have the premiere forthat Williams like hopefully
before it debuts on Disney Plus,but we'll keep you updated on
(01:11:46):
that one.
Aaron Pete (01:11:47):
That sounds great.
You have dip netting with dadand hockey with that and, if I'm
not mistaken, there was reallyrecent story in your local
newspaper saying that you'regonna do a live reading with one
of the schools.
Chief Willie Sellars (01:11:59):
Yep, no, we, we.
I try and fit them in, you know, as much as I can, because it's
really important, right.
You know, you instill thatpride into those indigenous kids
to see not just an author but aleader, you know, taking the
time to Be a part of their dayand and hold them up as as young
indigenous people in this world.
(01:12:19):
It was funny that the one I'vedone a couple over the past I
guess March last month and andone sticks to mind where a girl,
a young girl in the school,says my mom dries fish, and
we're like at the end of dipnetting with dad and I say, yeah
(01:12:41):
, and you know what, your mom isthe best Dry salmon maker in
the whole territory.
And she was like beaming withpride, right, and everyone's
like whoa, yeah, that's so cool.
They're like, you know, it'slike an exciting moment.
And then I run into the mum andshe's just like now I got to
make dry salmon for a whole.
You got to hold up thoseartisans too, because they're a
(01:13:06):
very important part of thatrevitalization Of our culture
and our ceremony languagediscussion, you know.
And there's a whole economyaround that too.
It's a whole other conversation, right, people are trying to
provide for their families atthe end of the day, and the
easier that we Can make it forthem, the better.
I mean you, you.
You commented in our preambleabout some of the shirts that
(01:13:29):
I've worn and I think about likedancing water.
Sandy is built in the majorityof the shirts that I have
rosemary Johnson, and they'regorgeous, gorgeous shirts, and
you know that is the kind oftalent that we have right here
in our communities and that'sjust WLF N right.
And go across the board ofthose artisans that we should be
(01:13:51):
holding up and showcasing theirwork on the events that we
participate in.
Go to Not only as leaders butas indigenous people, because
everybody always asks thoseearrings that my partner wears,
everyone asks.
Or who your cousin wears,everybody asks that's that money
that goes into the pocket thatstays right here here in
(01:14:13):
Williams Lake.
We gotta be make sure thatwe're we're holding them up and
proud to showcase them.
Lots of exciting things and Iwill have, hopefully, a couple
more books coming out andannounced within the next year
or so.
You know we have them ready,just waiting on the illustrator.
It's tough cookie that KevinEast.
Hope Devon, if you're listening, man, sign up, let's go.
Aaron Pete (01:14:37):
Chief, you are an inspiration to communities like
mine.
Your community is aninspiration to communities like
mine.
We're looking on who's doing itright, on who's setting the
example, on which footsteps wecan follow in and who we can
learn from, and I'm regularlylooking at you.
My fellow council member,kelsey John, is regularly
(01:14:58):
talking about how we need ahealth building.
We need a multi-purposebuilding like WLF N, and so you
guys have set the standard andyou're inspiring other First
Nation communities to go.
We need to give our membersbetter, and I thank you and your
community for all the workyou're doing on setting such a
great example.
Chief Willie Sellars (01:15:14):
Oh man, I appreciate, aaron.
I mean, you're an inspirationto us.
Man Like this is.
What makes my life funner andour jobs easier as leaders is
that we don't have to recreatethe wheel every single time we
want to do something and when wewe think about no, the rising
tide and other communitiesflourishing.
Well, I mean, that's healing,that's, that's a lot of pride.
(01:15:38):
So just keep doing what you'redoing too.
And and I appreciate the kindwords and just remember, when
you say um, you don't say chief,will you sellers, you say the
Williams Lake first station,because we are a team here at
WLF N.
Aaron Pete (01:15:50):
That sounds good.
I will definitely do that.
Thank you again for beingwilling to do this.
It's always a pleasureconnecting with you.
I think we're gonna have to doit in person one of these days.
Chief Willie Sellars (01:15:59):
You know I watch a lot of Joe Rogan, so
maybe we can even talkconspiracy theories and Indian
country and all those kind ofcool things too, but we're not
sitting across from each otherexactly, yeah, we'll have to
have you in studio.
Aaron Pete (01:16:10):
If you're ever down in Chilliwack, come on down and
we'd love to host you.
Chief Willie Sellars (01:16:13):
Okay, it sounds good.
Awesome, Aaron, have a good oneyou.
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