March 24, 2025 • 29 mins
Is the BC NDP Solving the Housing Crisis? British Columbia's Minister of Housing, Ravi Kahlon, sits down with Aaron Pete to discuss the housing crisis, new legislation, Indigenous housing, US tariffs, and municipal challenges.
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Episode Transcript
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Aaron Pete (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the Bigger
Than Me podcast.
Here is your host, aaron Peet.
What is being done about thehousing crisis?
Is the provincial governmentdoing enough to respond to the
needs of British Columbians, orcould more be done?
Today I'm speaking with theMinister of Housing about what's
being done to address thehousing crisis, what could be
done better and what BC'sresponse to the tariffs will be.
(00:23):
My guest today is Ravi Kallon.
Minister Ravi Kallon, it is anhonour to have you on the show.
Would you mind first brieflyintroducing yourself?
Ravi Kahlon (00:34):
Yeah, aaron, thanks for having me.
My name is Ravi Kallon.
I'm BC's Minister of Housingand Municipal Affairs.
I'm chairing the committeethat's taking on the Trump
administration's tariffs.
I've been elected for sevenyears MLA for North Delta.
Family guy got a kid, lovelyfamily and born and raised in
(00:55):
Victoria.
So hopefully that covers allthe angles for my intro.
Aaron Pete (01:00):
Would you mind first briefly introducing yourself?
I find it really important tohumanize the individuals doing
this work.
Often politics can be divisiveand I think it's helpful to get
an understanding of who you areon the personal side first.
Ravi Kahlon (01:13):
Yeah, no, I appreciate that.
Yeah, no.
Well, I'm born and raised inVictoria.
I spent about four years inIndia as a little kid because my
dad actually was working in themills and he got laid off and
family couldn't afford to keepmy sister and I here.
You know it's hard for newimmigrants.
So I spent four years in India,came back, you know, I was
fortunate enough to representCanada at a couple Olympics in
(01:36):
field hockey, and so that tookme to the lower mainland and of
course, north Delta became myhome.
And then the silly thing ofpolitics popped up in my life.
And next thing, you know, I'melected official and put into
these tasks.
So it's been a real whirlwind.
But you know, this is one ofthe most fulfilling careers that
(01:58):
I've ever had in my life.
Aaron Pete (02:00):
Can you expand on that a little bit?
What is fulfilling about thework that you do, how you
obviously receive a lot ofpushback, and, in circumstances,
rightly so.
That's the responsibility ofthe official opposition.
But what gives you the passionto do this work?
Ravi Kahlon (02:15):
Well, when I first ran, I said that I wanted to
make a difference in mycommunity and I feel I've been
able to do that.
And you know, I think anyonethat runs I always people always
come to me when they want torun for politics and I'm
actually the worst person apolitical party can send
somebody to, because I'mbrutally honest with people.
It's hard on your family If youhave young kids.
(02:36):
It's really difficult, you knowyou kind of put your public
life in front of everything elseand it's hard to have kind of a
private life, and you know, butin that being said, it's
fulfilling in that you know ifyou want to make a difference,
this is the way to make adifference.
You're able to speak for yourcommunity.
You're able to find initiativesand projects that will help
(03:00):
your community become a betterplace.
So it's about community serviceand that's what I love most
about this work is to be able tomeet with people.
To talk with people help, inmany cases, address people's
problems Not always, but I findthat as a fulfilling endeavor in
life.
Aaron Pete (03:20):
Speaking of elections, I'm wondering if we
can talk a little bit about theprevious one.
What do you think the maintakeaways were?
My understanding reading a lotof articles is this was not the
outcome that I think yourgovernment had hoped for in
terms of British Columbians'response to the work that you
had been doing.
How did you digest that processthe results of the last
(03:41):
election?
Ravi Kahlon (03:42):
Well, the way I digested it was that people want
us to do better.
You know, it's one thing totalk about the changes.
People want to feel the changesin their lives, and so that was
the message that I took out ofit A real frustration, not only
here in BC.
Across the country, acrossNorth America, there's the winds
of change were, you know,blowing in our face, but despite
(04:06):
that, I think we were able todo enough to show the public
enough about where we want to go, that we're still here and
doing this important work.
But you know, we have to make areal difference in people's
lives.
That's something Premier Ebyhas consistently hammered into
us.
People need to see a differenceand, you know, when it comes to
things like housing, they arestarting to see a difference,
(04:26):
and so that gives me hope forgoing forward, but definitely a
reminder that we have more workto do.
Aaron Pete (04:34):
Which housing bill stands out to you?
There were several that I gotto read about that I think are
now.
You talked in another interviewabout this is the
implementation period.
Can you tell us about some ofthose bills and which ones do
you think would resonate withlisteners?
Ravi Kahlon (04:49):
Well, I would say that all of them, because they
all work together.
You know, when I first tookthis role on, somebody gave me a
newspaper clipping of Bill VanDer Zandt in 1979.
And in that newspaper clippinghe actually talked about doing
the reforms that we did in thelast government.
This has been something that'sbeen talked about for a long
(05:10):
time cutting red tape, makingsure there's more access to
housing built in our communitiesfor a long time and we were
able to do it and just to touchon the bills as a whole.
Essentially, it's saying let'sre-look at how housing decisions
are made.
I believe to my core that thehousing system is failing young
(05:30):
people.
The system is designed, in fact,to make it harder for young
people because those that havehousing consistently have a
voice in decision-making andthose that don't have access to
housing are left out of theconversation.
So the changes we made wereabout allowing people to be able
(05:51):
to build housing on their landin a more easier way, build
housing that's more attainablefor people than the big
single-family home that is justway too out of reach for many
people.
It's about changing the way wemake decisions engaging with
communities early on,identifying what the community
should look like, where thehousing should go, but once we
made that decision, not torelitigate that decision, and so
(06:14):
I find all those pieces areimportant.
And, of course, the short-termrentals legislation has had an
immediate impact because we'veseen dramatically increase in
more housing come back onlinefor people that are living in
our communities that arestruggling for housing.
So I'm proud of all of the work.
I feel like all the pieces worktogether and we're starting to
(06:35):
see that now on the ground.
We're starting to see an impactin communities.
Aaron Pete (06:40):
Interesting.
How important are officialcommunity plans from your
perspective?
Ravi Kahlon (06:50):
I think they're very important.
All communities in the provincehave until the end of this year
to update their officialcommunity plans, and now by law
they must do it every five years.
So what that means is peopleare going to get engaged in the
process.
In my community, delta, we havenever seen this much engagement
in an official community planever, and the reason why is that
people know that this is theiropportunity to have a say and
(07:11):
that anybody that comes withinthe community plan should be
able to build housing.
So not relitigating decisions,let's engage the community.
At one point We'll come back tothe community, you know, three,
four years, so that they canupdate it, but I think that's
the most prudent way to moveforward.
And, of course, the officialcommunity plan or, in the case
of Vancouver, the officialdevelopment plan, is vitally
(07:33):
important.
Aaron Pete (07:34):
So, if I'm correct in this, one of the challenges
that was being faced was thatthere was, say, like a
development plan and thencommunity would have the
opportunity for input there.
And that's often where theywould go.
They wouldn't necessarilyparticipate in the official
community planning piece and sothey had missed kind of the
general overview of where thecommunity is going over the next
(07:56):
five years and they were kindof using this as piecemeal
feedback and that would slowdown the process.
Am I correct in myunderstanding?
Ravi Kahlon (08:02):
Well, I would say that that's not necessarily the
case.
People may participate in thecommunity plan and the community
decides on where they're going,but they might not like the
direction, especially if nextdoor it's going to be a triplex
and that can be frustrating forsome individuals.
But the reality is if we go lotby lot, unit by unit, and it's
(08:23):
all the people that live nextdoor lining up telling the
community why we don't want itwe're never going to have
housing.
We're never going to address thechallenge and in fact, since we
made the changes, we're seeinga whole host of things that
before were not imaginable.
We're seeing seniors seeingthis as an opportunity to
downsize, stay in theircommunity but have additional
(08:43):
units that they can either rentor sell off.
We're seeing in my community,for example, one family that
tore down their family home andbuilt four units and now the
entire family is living inindividual units with their own
kids, so intergenerationalliving all in the same place
that they all grew up in.
So I think this opens up just awhole host of opportunities.
(09:04):
I just met a couple of thiscouple here in Victoria.
They have three other friends.
They're all going in togetherto build a fourplex and all the
different friends are going tolive in their own units together
.
I think it opens up a lot ofopportunities and opens up
homeownership for a lot of folkswho thought that the idea of
homeownership was dead.
Aaron Pete (09:24):
How often are you able to zoom out on some of
these issues?
I'm just thinking a lot of theissues and challenges with the
housing crisis.
They weren't British Columbians, they weren't the residents'
fault that these issues havearisen.
These have been policydecisions, whether the federal
government, or decisions madethat they didn't have any
control over.
And now they're beingencouraged, I suppose, to kind
(09:47):
of look at okay, maybe we havesmaller units, maybe we build
more houses and I just think,like the Canadian dream from my
perspective is always to havethat white picket fence, that
property on a nice quarter acreor something like that.
And I think Canadians areadapting and British Columbians
are adapting.
But this wasn't in anyone'splan.
I would say Living in a verysmall apartment was never in
(10:09):
anyone's dream vision whenthey're kids.
So how do we kind of balancethe need for communities to
adapt with the fact that manypeople, like I'm sure, still
would like to be able to havelarger properties on larger lots
?
Ravi Kahlon (10:22):
You know this is not some sort of vendetta
against a single family home.
You know, if people can affordthem, they will continue to be
built in our communities.
But the reality is is peoplecan't afford a full single
family home.
And if you can have that samesize house split into two or
three or four and it's moreattainable for people and they
(10:42):
get to live in a community thatthey really want to live in,
close to schools and parks thatthey want to, that want it, you
know, good for you, go for it.
I'm not discouraging anybody,but I'm saying what I've heard
from not only people my age butpeople younger, is that the
single family home is notaffordable and we need to remove
(11:05):
barriers for different type ofhousing to be built.
Now I hear you.
There are sometimes otherpolicy pieces that have got us
to the situation, but I thinkyou can't deny that we haven't
been building enough housing.
You can't deny that we haven'tbeen building enough affordable
housing with governmentinvestments.
So, yes, there are some piecesthat we can control, but there
(11:25):
is a lot of things that we cancontrol that we're taking steps
to address now.
Aaron Pete (11:30):
How do you respond to often the official
opposition's position that itwould be good if government just
stepped out of the way.
And when you look at theirtrack record, they've often
removed themselves and thehousing crisis is particularly
bad right now probably the worstit's ever been.
But during those periods itwasn't great.
But that they do have a trackrecord for a reasonable housing
(11:51):
market.
That wasn't fantastic, nothingto brag about.
But they didn't have a lot ofgovernment investments in co-op
housing or affordable housing.
Ravi Kahlon (11:59):
Well, we're paying the price for governments
walking away from this.
I mean, if you look at how muchhousing we're short right now,
if you look at CMHC'sdefinitions and their reports
about how much housing we'rebehind on and you calculate how
much housing we would have beenbuilding if we had stopped or if
we kept building from 2002 orwhatever it was, it's the same
(12:20):
amount pretty much.
And so the gap is partlygovernment saying hey, you know
what, we're just going to stayout of this and somehow the
problem will solve itself.
You know, anyone that works inhousing will tell you it's not
an overnight fix.
The problem grows.
It's like a snowball.
It's been getting bigger andbigger and bigger and we're
paying the price for it.
So it's a real challenge.
And you know I appreciate theofficial opposition has to say
(12:42):
something.
It's nice to say slogans likegovernment should get out of the
way, but if that was reallywhat they believe, they would
have supported our legislationwhich gets government out of the
way, which says, when somebodyhas a lot, that they can build
four units without having to gothrough an extensive process,
which means if a project fitswithin a community plan, that it
(13:03):
shouldn't have to go toadditional public hearings.
That is getting government outof the way, and so you know
we're in a crisis, and thatmeans that you got to put the
slogans away and you got toactually start addressing the
core issue, and unfortunately,that's not what's been happening
here in BC.
Aaron Pete (13:19):
You've recently had disputes with the city of
Richmond and West Vancouver.
I'm wondering what do youattribute those disputes to?
Ravi Kahlon (13:27):
Well, I would say that the dispute hasn't been
with the city of Richmond.
The city of Richmond, it's asupportive housing issue, and
approving supportive housingissue and proving supportive
housing in communities ischallenging.
In this case, you know Richmondis going to have to come back
to us with an alternativelocation Because you know, when
it comes to vulnerable people,what I find in this conversation
(13:49):
, in our society as a whole noteven BC across the country,
across North America, is thattoo often people believe that
it's the homeless people that isthe problem and what, in fact,
the problem is lack of housing.
So if you increase housingsupply of all types, you are
actually helping addresshomelessness issues as well,
Because if you have a limitedamount of housing available,
(14:12):
those with means will continueto get access to it, but it puts
downward pressure on everybodyelse in society.
And so I believe you need toincrease housing supply, you
need to invest in affordablehousing.
So government comes from thebottom, private sector comes
from the top.
It's the only way we're goingto be able to address this issue
.
And you know there is instanceswhere local governments don't
(14:34):
want to participate.
Westman is a cost example.
They don't want transit becausethey're afraid that people with
middle incomes or low incomeswill come to their neighborhood.
You know they don't want tohave more housing in their
community because they feel likethe problem should be solved by
somebody else, and the realityis we're all in it together.
If the city of North Vancouverand the district of North
(14:57):
Vancouver are going to approvehousing, well, West Vancouver
has to be part of that solutionfor the North Shore, and that
goes for every community in theentire province.
And so you know, I'm hopingthat we're able to get to a
place where all communities willdo their part.
We're not there yet, but we'remaking some real progress,
because there's a lot ofcommunities that are doing
(15:17):
amazing work right now acrossthe province.
Aaron Pete (15:20):
What happens if municipalities refuse to comply
and work within these confines?
Ravi Kahlon (15:26):
Well, we have legislation in place for
communities that don't comeanywhere close to their targets.
Now we have two communitiesright now West Vancouver and Oak
Bay which are like way offtheir targets.
You know we have a lot ofcommunities that are not at
their targets, but you can seethat they're making some
progress.
But in those cases we've gottwo independent advisors that
(15:46):
have come in.
They're reviewing what the citydoes in order to make decisions
on housing and they're going toissue a report very soon to us
on what next steps need tohappen to help those communities
get on track.
So that's the first step andthen we'll see what the
recommendations are laid out andthen we'll take appropriate
(16:06):
steps from there.
But everyone has to be part ofthis.
It can't be one community inand one community out, because
what I hear the most from thosecommunities that are doing it is
that people come to them andsay, why are we approving
housing when that community overthere is not doing their part?
And we can't have that,especially when you have so many
young people that arestruggling to access housing.
Aaron Pete (16:27):
The next piece I want to talk about and it's
personal to me and I'd like toshare appreciation for the late
John Horgan for advocating forthis is the Indigenous Housing
Fund.
Through BC Housing, mycommunity, chihuahua First
Nation, has been supported by BCHousing.
We're hoping to startconstruction in the summer of
2025 and I just wanted to getyour reflections on this.
(16:49):
I had the opportunity tointerview the Premier and I
didn't feel like he had a fullyfleshed out position on the
future of that program.
He knows that that's obviouslya federal responsibility, but
the piece that I should havebrought up to him in that
interview was just thinkingabout the fact that an
incredibly high amount ofindividuals who are living
homeless throughout all urbansettings are Indigenous people,
(17:12):
and a lot of that is caused bythe fact that there isn't
sufficient housing within theircommunity.
I worked as a native courtworker for nearly five years and
really got to understand thefact that many people want to be
at home, but homes are already20 people to a four-bedroom
house.
That's just not feasible, andCMHC is a good partner, as is
Indigenous Services Canada, butthe fact that BC Housing comes
(17:36):
to the table and brings inprovincial code and municipal
code standards is something mostFirst Nation communities have
never seen.
They're on federal land, sothere is no provincial standards
, there is no municipalstandards on which the homes are
built, and so they were alwaysbuilt to a lower standard, and
so they were always built to alower standard.
This will be the first time mycommunity gets high quality
housing at an affordable rateand it allows members to move
(18:00):
home and bring down a lot of thepressure on homelessness within
municipalities like Chilliwack,but also allows people who are
barely scraping by to be able tocome home, and I'm a huge
advocate for this programbecause I just don't see CMHC or
Indigenous Services Canadastepping up, and I just wanted
(18:21):
to get your understanding of theprogram and what your thoughts
are.
Ravi Kahlon (18:22):
Yeah, you summarized it very well.
I agree with every single thingthat you've just said.
That program has been huge.
We're the only province in thecountry that has been funding
Indigenous housing, both on andoff reserve.
It's a source of great pridefor me.
No other province is investingin this and I've visited so many
nations where there's housingcoming online and I can tell you
(18:43):
it is game changing Eldersgetting a space of their own
with additional bedrooms becausesometimes you got the grandkids
or other family members comingto stay with you, having
culturally appropriate space inthe housing so that people can
store their belongings forfeasts and other important,
(19:03):
significant events in theircommunities.
Housing is core.
It's health care, it's mentalhealth, it's community building
and so, yeah, I'm a strongadvocate for it.
One of the first asked and theonly ask that we made to the
federal government was you knowwhat?
Match us?
No other province wants to putdollars in.
Just match us dollar for dollar, because you're right, I've met
(19:26):
with too many leaders withinthe First Nations community who
are like the last time we hadhousing was from CMAC 60, 70
years ago.
It's the same building.
It's in disrepair, there's mold, and how do you live in that
type of environment?
And, yes, you're going to seepeople go into city centres to
try to find access to supportsand access to housing and
(19:47):
connect with families and thenget trapped in that cycle.
What we're seeing right now withthe Indigenous Housing Fund is
a lot of nations who are saying,guess what, because of this
housing that we built, we havepeople coming back.
People are, for example,seabird, seabird Band I was
there when we announced thehousing there and they're saying
(20:10):
we have people coming back tothe community.
That's a sign of a healthynation, when people, when your
population is growing, whenpeople are coming back and
participating in your localschool.
And so, yes, I'm a proponent ofthat, I'm a big proponent of
that.
We're going to find ways tocontinue to expand that program.
But I'll also tell you that theCommunity Housing Fund, which
is also an additional stream,that's for everyone, almost a
quarter of that is Indigenoushousing providers, and so we're
(20:33):
seeing that space growdramatically.
And lastly, I'll just say thatI was at the Silcatine Nation
dramatically.
And lastly, I'll just say thatI was at the Silcatine Nation
meeting with Chief Alphonse andmany of their housing advocates.
They shared with me that theydid a poll amongst all their
members and they thought rightsand title would be number one,
and they had this list of whatelected officials had in their
(20:55):
mind.
Housing was by far the numberone issue amongst all their
members.
And I go nation by nation and Ihear the same thing.
So you know one of the thingsthat I would say to the new
federal leader, or to any leaderthat's running in the next
federal election prioritizeIndigenous housing.
We address that challenge.
Not only are we creating a moreequitable society, but we're
(21:17):
also addressing a lot of otherpressures that we're seeing in
our communities.
Aaron Pete (21:21):
I'm so glad that you see it the same way because,
from my perspective, if youcan't live at home within your
community, you're disconnectingyourself from your family,
you're disconnecting yourselffrom the people who understand
you, whether it be culturalpractices or just people you've
grown up with, and so when youleave that, I find you're more
vulnerable.
Like I interviewed inez louie along time ago and she talked
(21:42):
about going from um, the, thechilliwack area, all the way to
ubc and the culture shock youfeel from growing up on reserve
to being in a big, largeinstitution and how that kind of
has a difference of experiencefor people and just joining on
council in 2022, seeing that alot of the homes were in
disrepair, a lot of theinvestments there was funding
(22:03):
from Indigenous Services Canada,but the process to apply for it
was complicated and so manypeople didn't look at that and
the extent at which BC Housing'swilling to work with us, adapt
to what we're seeking has reallyimpressed me and, like again
just going back to being anative court worker, I wanted to
see a lot of those issuesaddressed but I didn't have any
tools at my disposal.
(22:24):
It was relying on the existingtools and community resources.
But being on council, I'm ableto work with our team, develop a
housing strategy throughIndigenous Services Canada,
apply to BC Housing for fundingand they've been an amazing
partner supporting us throughthis process, and that just
gives me a lot of hope on wherewe're going and how we address
(22:44):
some of those systemic issueswe've heard so much about.
Ravi Kahlon (22:47):
Yeah, and nothing more frustrating when it comes
to building code, when we hearabout dollars going to fix
housing and it's doneinadequately.
You know it's a real concern,and especially in smaller
communities.
But you know we're seeing somuch progress.
Nations are taking theirhousing on themselves and saying
we want learn together but alsobe able to make sure that
(23:22):
nations have then the capacityfor them to be able to keep the
housing upkeep all the waythrough.
That, I think, is the greaterpartnership.
The housing is important, butthat institutional change
actually is the game changer formany years, generations going
forward game changer for manyyears, generations going forward
.
Aaron Pete (23:42):
A few tough questions for you.
If the policies are working,why are housing starts down 11%
this year?
Ravi Kahlon (23:45):
Well, I would say that, first off, the last four
years have been the highesthousing starts in BC's history.
So last year was the highesthousing starts ever and so, yes,
you can say we're 11% lowerthan the highest we've ever been
.
But we have had the last lowerthan the highest we've ever been
, but we have had the last fouryears the highest ever.
So we have headwinds.
I mean I'm not denying interestrates going up real fast, the
(24:09):
cost of goods and materialsgoing into our projects.
Now the tariffs we got tons ofheadwinds but we are double per
capita of Ontario.
We are dramatically higher thanmost other jurisdictions.
Only Alberta this year passedus per capita for housings.
But if you look at the lastseven years we have been blowing
things out of the water andthat gives me hope.
(24:31):
And what we're seeing alreadyin communities is vacancy rates
are going up.
You know CMHC actually projectsthat if we keep going on the
trend line we're going on, wecan start seeing communities
like Victoria and othercommunities at 3%.
That is unheard of incommunities in British Columbia.
We're seeing rents, accordingto rentalsca, coming down for
(24:52):
the last nine months Every month, new units going on their site
for less and less money.
So you know these are goodindicators that we're heading in
the right direction.
We're not there yet.
We have a lot more work to do.
Aaron Pete (25:04):
Why has Vancouver's Expo lands sat undeveloped for
40 years?
Ravi Kahlon (25:08):
Yeah, frustrating.
I mean, if you want to posterchild, for why you just don't
give up private lands, publiclands, to private interests and
hope that will solve the problem.
There's one, I mean, LittleMountain is another one, this is
another one, and so you knowit's frustrating.
And one of the things thatwe're working on right now is
saying to Concord, the companythat owns the land, and to the
(25:32):
city of Vancouver let's get tothe table and let's figure out
what the problem is and let'sstart getting shovels in the
ground.
Those are thousands of homesthat can help address a major
crisis that we have.
And I appreciate the land wassold 40 years ago.
I mean it's crazy to think thatX486 is 40 years tomorrow and
there's still nothing to showfor it.
(25:53):
But I'm determined that that'sgoing to be one of the pieces
that we get across the line.
We're already starting thatconversation and I'm hopeful we
will move it forward.
Aaron Pete (26:01):
How real is the US tariff threat and what's BC's
plan?
Very real.
Ravi Kahlon (26:07):
And I am, you know, I was the Minister for Economic
Recovery through the pandemic,and I can tell you the same
trauma has come back right upagain, because in this case,
this is more unpredictable thanCOVID was, and so that's a real
challenge for us, and so thethreat is real.
We're taking it very seriously.
We're looking at measures to beable to respond to tariffs,
(26:34):
because you have to respond.
You can't simply say they'regoing to put tariffs on us and
we're going to say it's OK,because if we do that, there's
more coming.
I can guarantee you that we'reworking on elements to
strengthen.
The Premier announced 18projects that will be expedited
that will help with our economicgrowth, mostly around clean
energy.
Twelve of those projects aremajority First Nations ownership
, which is amazing.
(26:55):
That's something you neverwould have heard of before, and
so we have a lot of work to do.
And then, lastly, to diversify.
We have to find new markets,more to Asia, more across the
country, and those are thethings that we're working on
right now.
Aaron Pete (27:09):
Field hockey or politics.
Which is tougher?
Ravi Kahlon (27:12):
Well, you know what ?
My first team I ever played onin field hockey was an all-girls
team, because there was no boysplaying at that time, and when
I walked in the field I thoughtthis is great, and then I left
the field beat up and bruisedbecause the girls decided that
they wanted to teach me a lesson.
So I would say that was tougherthan than politics.
But overall, politics is reallife and it impacts people's
(27:35):
lives, and so I find that muchtougher than a sport that I love
, that I was committed to, butwhen you took your uniform off,
you were not impacting others'lives as much.
Aaron Pete (27:47):
It seems like we're in a very tumultuous time.
There's a lot of unknowns.
What would you say to BritishColumbians right now?
Ravi Kahlon (27:55):
Well, I would say to them that just like through
the pandemic, just through othercrises, we're going to be that.
Just like through the pandemic,just through other crises,
we're going to be there.
We're going to be there tosupport them.
We're going to support workerswho are worried about the
impacts of forestry mining.
We're going to work with FirstNations communities to ensure
that they're part of therecovery that will come from
this.
We're going to work with allpartners, and what gives me the
(28:17):
most hope is that all ourpartners are at one table
talking about solutions together, as opposed to every community
in their corner trying to figureout what they're going to do.
And so we're going to make itthrough.
I'm confident of that.
There will be some challengingdays ahead, but I'm just proud
of the response we're seeingacross the country.
Aaron Pete (28:38):
Minister, I really appreciate you being willing to
take the time.
Please tell people how they canfollow along with your work.
Ravi Kahlon (28:44):
Well, you can follow me on social media and
certainly we're pretty publicwith all the things we're doing,
and I certainly hope thatyou'll have me back on again for
an update of how things aregoing.
Aaron Pete (28:55):
That sounds fantastic.
First, I'd just like to thankyou.
I find you to be very engagedin the communications process
and I think obviously it's atemperament thing for some
people it's hard to put yourselfout there, but your willingness
to engage during the lastelection really stood out to me
personally and your willingnessto do interviews like this.
(29:17):
You didn't know what questionsI was going to ask.
I think that is a sign of ahealthy democracy when we're
able to have these conversations, and I just really appreciate
you and your team for beingwilling to take this time.
Thank you.
Ravi Kahlon (29:27):
I raise my hands to you.
Thank you for creating thespace for this.
Welcome back to another episode of the Bigger
Than Me podcast.
Here is your host, aaron Peet.
What is being done about thehousing crisis?
Is the provincial governmentdoing enough to respond to the
needs of British Columbians, orcould more be done?
Today I'm speaking with theMinister of Housing about what's
being done to address thehousing crisis, what could be
done better and what BC'sresponse to the tariffs will be.
(00:23):
My guest today is Ravi Kallon.
Minister Ravi Kallon, it is anhonour to have you on the show.
Would you mind first brieflyintroducing yourself?
Ravi Kahlon (00:34):
Yeah, aaron, thanks for having me.
My name is Ravi Kallon.
I'm BC's Minister of Housingand Municipal Affairs.
I'm chairing the committeethat's taking on the Trump
administration's tariffs.
I've been elected for sevenyears MLA for North Delta.
Family guy got a kid, lovelyfamily and born and raised in
(00:55):
Victoria.
So hopefully that covers allthe angles for my intro.
Aaron Pete (01:00):
Would you mind first briefly introducing yourself?
I find it really important tohumanize the individuals doing
this work.
Often politics can be divisiveand I think it's helpful to get
an understanding of who you areon the personal side first.
Ravi Kahlon (01:13):
Yeah, no, I appreciate that.
Yeah, no.
Well, I'm born and raised inVictoria.
I spent about four years inIndia as a little kid because my
dad actually was working in themills and he got laid off and
family couldn't afford to keepmy sister and I here.
You know it's hard for newimmigrants.
So I spent four years in India,came back, you know, I was
fortunate enough to representCanada at a couple Olympics in
(01:36):
field hockey, and so that tookme to the lower mainland and of
course, north Delta became myhome.
And then the silly thing ofpolitics popped up in my life.
And next thing, you know, I'melected official and put into
these tasks.
So it's been a real whirlwind.
But you know, this is one ofthe most fulfilling careers that
(01:58):
I've ever had in my life.
Aaron Pete (02:00):
Can you expand on that a little bit?
What is fulfilling about thework that you do, how you
obviously receive a lot ofpushback, and, in circumstances,
rightly so.
That's the responsibility ofthe official opposition.
But what gives you the passionto do this work?
Ravi Kahlon (02:15):
Well, when I first ran, I said that I wanted to
make a difference in mycommunity and I feel I've been
able to do that.
And you know, I think anyonethat runs I always people always
come to me when they want torun for politics and I'm
actually the worst person apolitical party can send
somebody to, because I'mbrutally honest with people.
It's hard on your family If youhave young kids.
(02:36):
It's really difficult, you knowyou kind of put your public
life in front of everything elseand it's hard to have kind of a
private life, and you know, butin that being said, it's
fulfilling in that you know ifyou want to make a difference,
this is the way to make adifference.
You're able to speak for yourcommunity.
You're able to find initiativesand projects that will help
(03:00):
your community become a betterplace.
So it's about community serviceand that's what I love most
about this work is to be able tomeet with people.
To talk with people help, inmany cases, address people's
problems Not always, but I findthat as a fulfilling endeavor in
life.
Aaron Pete (03:20):
Speaking of elections, I'm wondering if we
can talk a little bit about theprevious one.
What do you think the maintakeaways were?
My understanding reading a lotof articles is this was not the
outcome that I think yourgovernment had hoped for in
terms of British Columbians'response to the work that you
had been doing.
How did you digest that processthe results of the last
(03:41):
election?
Ravi Kahlon (03:42):
Well, the way I digested it was that people want
us to do better.
You know, it's one thing totalk about the changes.
People want to feel the changesin their lives, and so that was
the message that I took out ofit A real frustration, not only
here in BC.
Across the country, acrossNorth America, there's the winds
of change were, you know,blowing in our face, but despite
(04:06):
that, I think we were able todo enough to show the public
enough about where we want to go, that we're still here and
doing this important work.
But you know, we have to make areal difference in people's
lives.
That's something Premier Ebyhas consistently hammered into
us.
People need to see a differenceand, you know, when it comes to
things like housing, they arestarting to see a difference,
(04:26):
and so that gives me hope forgoing forward, but definitely a
reminder that we have more workto do.
Aaron Pete (04:34):
Which housing bill stands out to you?
There were several that I gotto read about that I think are
now.
You talked in another interviewabout this is the
implementation period.
Can you tell us about some ofthose bills and which ones do
you think would resonate withlisteners?
Ravi Kahlon (04:49):
Well, I would say that all of them, because they
all work together.
You know, when I first tookthis role on, somebody gave me a
newspaper clipping of Bill VanDer Zandt in 1979.
And in that newspaper clippinghe actually talked about doing
the reforms that we did in thelast government.
This has been something that'sbeen talked about for a long
(05:10):
time cutting red tape, makingsure there's more access to
housing built in our communitiesfor a long time and we were
able to do it and just to touchon the bills as a whole.
Essentially, it's saying let'sre-look at how housing decisions
are made.
I believe to my core that thehousing system is failing young
(05:30):
people.
The system is designed, in fact,to make it harder for young
people because those that havehousing consistently have a
voice in decision-making andthose that don't have access to
housing are left out of theconversation.
So the changes we made wereabout allowing people to be able
(05:51):
to build housing on their landin a more easier way, build
housing that's more attainablefor people than the big
single-family home that is justway too out of reach for many
people.
It's about changing the way wemake decisions engaging with
communities early on,identifying what the community
should look like, where thehousing should go, but once we
made that decision, not torelitigate that decision, and so
(06:14):
I find all those pieces areimportant.
And, of course, the short-termrentals legislation has had an
immediate impact because we'veseen dramatically increase in
more housing come back onlinefor people that are living in
our communities that arestruggling for housing.
So I'm proud of all of the work.
I feel like all the pieces worktogether and we're starting to
(06:35):
see that now on the ground.
We're starting to see an impactin communities.
Aaron Pete (06:40):
Interesting.
How important are officialcommunity plans from your
perspective?
Ravi Kahlon (06:50):
I think they're very important.
All communities in the provincehave until the end of this year
to update their officialcommunity plans, and now by law
they must do it every five years.
So what that means is peopleare going to get engaged in the
process.
In my community, delta, we havenever seen this much engagement
in an official community planever, and the reason why is that
people know that this is theiropportunity to have a say and
(07:11):
that anybody that comes withinthe community plan should be
able to build housing.
So not relitigating decisions,let's engage the community.
At one point We'll come back tothe community, you know, three,
four years, so that they canupdate it, but I think that's
the most prudent way to moveforward.
And, of course, the officialcommunity plan or, in the case
of Vancouver, the officialdevelopment plan, is vitally
(07:33):
important.
Aaron Pete (07:34):
So, if I'm correct in this, one of the challenges
that was being faced was thatthere was, say, like a
development plan and thencommunity would have the
opportunity for input there.
And that's often where theywould go.
They wouldn't necessarilyparticipate in the official
community planning piece and sothey had missed kind of the
general overview of where thecommunity is going over the next
(07:56):
five years and they were kindof using this as piecemeal
feedback and that would slowdown the process.
Am I correct in myunderstanding?
Ravi Kahlon (08:02):
Well, I would say that that's not necessarily the
case.
People may participate in thecommunity plan and the community
decides on where they're going,but they might not like the
direction, especially if nextdoor it's going to be a triplex
and that can be frustrating forsome individuals.
But the reality is if we go lotby lot, unit by unit, and it's
(08:23):
all the people that live nextdoor lining up telling the
community why we don't want itwe're never going to have
housing.
We're never going to address thechallenge and in fact, since we
made the changes, we're seeinga whole host of things that
before were not imaginable.
We're seeing seniors seeingthis as an opportunity to
downsize, stay in theircommunity but have additional
(08:43):
units that they can either rentor sell off.
We're seeing in my community,for example, one family that
tore down their family home andbuilt four units and now the
entire family is living inindividual units with their own
kids, so intergenerationalliving all in the same place
that they all grew up in.
So I think this opens up just awhole host of opportunities.
(09:04):
I just met a couple of thiscouple here in Victoria.
They have three other friends.
They're all going in togetherto build a fourplex and all the
different friends are going tolive in their own units together
.
I think it opens up a lot ofopportunities and opens up
homeownership for a lot of folkswho thought that the idea of
homeownership was dead.
Aaron Pete (09:24):
How often are you able to zoom out on some of
these issues?
I'm just thinking a lot of theissues and challenges with the
housing crisis.
They weren't British Columbians, they weren't the residents'
fault that these issues havearisen.
These have been policydecisions, whether the federal
government, or decisions madethat they didn't have any
control over.
And now they're beingencouraged, I suppose, to kind
(09:47):
of look at okay, maybe we havesmaller units, maybe we build
more houses and I just think,like the Canadian dream from my
perspective is always to havethat white picket fence, that
property on a nice quarter acreor something like that.
And I think Canadians areadapting and British Columbians
are adapting.
But this wasn't in anyone'splan.
I would say Living in a verysmall apartment was never in
(10:09):
anyone's dream vision whenthey're kids.
So how do we kind of balancethe need for communities to
adapt with the fact that manypeople, like I'm sure, still
would like to be able to havelarger properties on larger lots
?
Ravi Kahlon (10:22):
You know this is not some sort of vendetta
against a single family home.
You know, if people can affordthem, they will continue to be
built in our communities.
But the reality is is peoplecan't afford a full single
family home.
And if you can have that samesize house split into two or
three or four and it's moreattainable for people and they
(10:42):
get to live in a community thatthey really want to live in,
close to schools and parks thatthey want to, that want it, you
know, good for you, go for it.
I'm not discouraging anybody,but I'm saying what I've heard
from not only people my age butpeople younger, is that the
single family home is notaffordable and we need to remove
(11:05):
barriers for different type ofhousing to be built.
Now I hear you.
There are sometimes otherpolicy pieces that have got us
to the situation, but I thinkyou can't deny that we haven't
been building enough housing.
You can't deny that we haven'tbeen building enough affordable
housing with governmentinvestments.
So, yes, there are some piecesthat we can control, but there
(11:25):
is a lot of things that we cancontrol that we're taking steps
to address now.
Aaron Pete (11:30):
How do you respond to often the official
opposition's position that itwould be good if government just
stepped out of the way.
And when you look at theirtrack record, they've often
removed themselves and thehousing crisis is particularly
bad right now probably the worstit's ever been.
But during those periods itwasn't great.
But that they do have a trackrecord for a reasonable housing
(11:51):
market.
That wasn't fantastic, nothingto brag about.
But they didn't have a lot ofgovernment investments in co-op
housing or affordable housing.
Ravi Kahlon (11:59):
Well, we're paying the price for governments
walking away from this.
I mean, if you look at how muchhousing we're short right now,
if you look at CMHC'sdefinitions and their reports
about how much housing we'rebehind on and you calculate how
much housing we would have beenbuilding if we had stopped or if
we kept building from 2002 orwhatever it was, it's the same
(12:20):
amount pretty much.
And so the gap is partlygovernment saying hey, you know
what, we're just going to stayout of this and somehow the
problem will solve itself.
You know, anyone that works inhousing will tell you it's not
an overnight fix.
The problem grows.
It's like a snowball.
It's been getting bigger andbigger and bigger and we're
paying the price for it.
So it's a real challenge.
And you know I appreciate theofficial opposition has to say
(12:42):
something.
It's nice to say slogans likegovernment should get out of the
way, but if that was reallywhat they believe, they would
have supported our legislationwhich gets government out of the
way, which says, when somebodyhas a lot, that they can build
four units without having to gothrough an extensive process,
which means if a project fitswithin a community plan, that it
(13:03):
shouldn't have to go toadditional public hearings.
That is getting government outof the way, and so you know
we're in a crisis, and thatmeans that you got to put the
slogans away and you got toactually start addressing the
core issue, and unfortunately,that's not what's been happening
here in BC.
Aaron Pete (13:19):
You've recently had disputes with the city of
Richmond and West Vancouver.
I'm wondering what do youattribute those disputes to?
Ravi Kahlon (13:27):
Well, I would say that the dispute hasn't been
with the city of Richmond.
The city of Richmond, it's asupportive housing issue, and
approving supportive housingissue and proving supportive
housing in communities ischallenging.
In this case, you know Richmondis going to have to come back
to us with an alternativelocation Because you know, when
it comes to vulnerable people,what I find in this conversation
(13:49):
, in our society as a whole noteven BC across the country,
across North America, is thattoo often people believe that
it's the homeless people that isthe problem and what, in fact,
the problem is lack of housing.
So if you increase housingsupply of all types, you are
actually helping addresshomelessness issues as well,
Because if you have a limitedamount of housing available,
(14:12):
those with means will continueto get access to it, but it puts
downward pressure on everybodyelse in society.
And so I believe you need toincrease housing supply, you
need to invest in affordablehousing.
So government comes from thebottom, private sector comes
from the top.
It's the only way we're goingto be able to address this issue
.
And you know there is instanceswhere local governments don't
(14:34):
want to participate.
Westman is a cost example.
They don't want transit becausethey're afraid that people with
middle incomes or low incomeswill come to their neighborhood.
You know they don't want tohave more housing in their
community because they feel likethe problem should be solved by
somebody else, and the realityis we're all in it together.
If the city of North Vancouverand the district of North
(14:57):
Vancouver are going to approvehousing, well, West Vancouver
has to be part of that solutionfor the North Shore, and that
goes for every community in theentire province.
And so you know, I'm hopingthat we're able to get to a
place where all communities willdo their part.
We're not there yet, but we'remaking some real progress,
because there's a lot ofcommunities that are doing
(15:17):
amazing work right now acrossthe province.
Aaron Pete (15:20):
What happens if municipalities refuse to comply
and work within these confines?
Ravi Kahlon (15:26):
Well, we have legislation in place for
communities that don't comeanywhere close to their targets.
Now we have two communitiesright now West Vancouver and Oak
Bay which are like way offtheir targets.
You know we have a lot ofcommunities that are not at
their targets, but you can seethat they're making some
progress.
But in those cases we've gottwo independent advisors that
(15:46):
have come in.
They're reviewing what the citydoes in order to make decisions
on housing and they're going toissue a report very soon to us
on what next steps need tohappen to help those communities
get on track.
So that's the first step andthen we'll see what the
recommendations are laid out andthen we'll take appropriate
(16:06):
steps from there.
But everyone has to be part ofthis.
It can't be one community inand one community out, because
what I hear the most from thosecommunities that are doing it is
that people come to them andsay, why are we approving
housing when that community overthere is not doing their part?
And we can't have that,especially when you have so many
young people that arestruggling to access housing.
Aaron Pete (16:27):
The next piece I want to talk about and it's
personal to me and I'd like toshare appreciation for the late
John Horgan for advocating forthis is the Indigenous Housing
Fund.
Through BC Housing, mycommunity, chihuahua First
Nation, has been supported by BCHousing.
We're hoping to startconstruction in the summer of
2025 and I just wanted to getyour reflections on this.
(16:49):
I had the opportunity tointerview the Premier and I
didn't feel like he had a fullyfleshed out position on the
future of that program.
He knows that that's obviouslya federal responsibility, but
the piece that I should havebrought up to him in that
interview was just thinkingabout the fact that an
incredibly high amount ofindividuals who are living
homeless throughout all urbansettings are Indigenous people,
(17:12):
and a lot of that is caused bythe fact that there isn't
sufficient housing within theircommunity.
I worked as a native courtworker for nearly five years and
really got to understand thefact that many people want to be
at home, but homes are already20 people to a four-bedroom
house.
That's just not feasible, andCMHC is a good partner, as is
Indigenous Services Canada, butthe fact that BC Housing comes
(17:36):
to the table and brings inprovincial code and municipal
code standards is something mostFirst Nation communities have
never seen.
They're on federal land, sothere is no provincial standards
, there is no municipalstandards on which the homes are
built, and so they were alwaysbuilt to a lower standard, and
so they were always built to alower standard.
This will be the first time mycommunity gets high quality
housing at an affordable rateand it allows members to move
(18:00):
home and bring down a lot of thepressure on homelessness within
municipalities like Chilliwack,but also allows people who are
barely scraping by to be able tocome home, and I'm a huge
advocate for this programbecause I just don't see CMHC or
Indigenous Services Canadastepping up, and I just wanted
(18:21):
to get your understanding of theprogram and what your thoughts
are.
Ravi Kahlon (18:22):
Yeah, you summarized it very well.
I agree with every single thingthat you've just said.
That program has been huge.
We're the only province in thecountry that has been funding
Indigenous housing, both on andoff reserve.
It's a source of great pridefor me.
No other province is investingin this and I've visited so many
nations where there's housingcoming online and I can tell you
(18:43):
it is game changing Eldersgetting a space of their own
with additional bedrooms becausesometimes you got the grandkids
or other family members comingto stay with you, having
culturally appropriate space inthe housing so that people can
store their belongings forfeasts and other important,
(19:03):
significant events in theircommunities.
Housing is core.
It's health care, it's mentalhealth, it's community building
and so, yeah, I'm a strongadvocate for it.
One of the first asked and theonly ask that we made to the
federal government was you knowwhat?
Match us?
No other province wants to putdollars in.
Just match us dollar for dollar, because you're right, I've met
(19:26):
with too many leaders withinthe First Nations community who
are like the last time we hadhousing was from CMAC 60, 70
years ago.
It's the same building.
It's in disrepair, there's mold, and how do you live in that
type of environment?
And, yes, you're going to seepeople go into city centres to
try to find access to supportsand access to housing and
(19:47):
connect with families and thenget trapped in that cycle.
What we're seeing right now withthe Indigenous Housing Fund is
a lot of nations who are saying,guess what, because of this
housing that we built, we havepeople coming back.
People are, for example,seabird, seabird Band I was
there when we announced thehousing there and they're saying
(20:10):
we have people coming back tothe community.
That's a sign of a healthynation, when people, when your
population is growing, whenpeople are coming back and
participating in your localschool.
And so, yes, I'm a proponent ofthat, I'm a big proponent of
that.
We're going to find ways tocontinue to expand that program.
But I'll also tell you that theCommunity Housing Fund, which
is also an additional stream,that's for everyone, almost a
quarter of that is Indigenoushousing providers, and so we're
(20:33):
seeing that space growdramatically.
And lastly, I'll just say thatI was at the Silcatine Nation
dramatically.
And lastly, I'll just say thatI was at the Silcatine Nation
meeting with Chief Alphonse andmany of their housing advocates.
They shared with me that theydid a poll amongst all their
members and they thought rightsand title would be number one,
and they had this list of whatelected officials had in their
(20:55):
mind.
Housing was by far the numberone issue amongst all their
members.
And I go nation by nation and Ihear the same thing.
So you know one of the thingsthat I would say to the new
federal leader, or to any leaderthat's running in the next
federal election prioritizeIndigenous housing.
We address that challenge.
Not only are we creating a moreequitable society, but we're
(21:17):
also addressing a lot of otherpressures that we're seeing in
our communities.
Aaron Pete (21:21):
I'm so glad that you see it the same way because,
from my perspective, if youcan't live at home within your
community, you're disconnectingyourself from your family,
you're disconnecting yourselffrom the people who understand
you, whether it be culturalpractices or just people you've
grown up with, and so when youleave that, I find you're more
vulnerable.
Like I interviewed inez louie along time ago and she talked
(21:42):
about going from um, the, thechilliwack area, all the way to
ubc and the culture shock youfeel from growing up on reserve
to being in a big, largeinstitution and how that kind of
has a difference of experiencefor people and just joining on
council in 2022, seeing that alot of the homes were in
disrepair, a lot of theinvestments there was funding
(22:03):
from Indigenous Services Canada,but the process to apply for it
was complicated and so manypeople didn't look at that and
the extent at which BC Housing'swilling to work with us, adapt
to what we're seeking has reallyimpressed me and, like again
just going back to being anative court worker, I wanted to
see a lot of those issuesaddressed but I didn't have any
tools at my disposal.
(22:24):
It was relying on the existingtools and community resources.
But being on council, I'm ableto work with our team, develop a
housing strategy throughIndigenous Services Canada,
apply to BC Housing for fundingand they've been an amazing
partner supporting us throughthis process, and that just
gives me a lot of hope on wherewe're going and how we address
(22:44):
some of those systemic issueswe've heard so much about.
Ravi Kahlon (22:47):
Yeah, and nothing more frustrating when it comes
to building code, when we hearabout dollars going to fix
housing and it's doneinadequately.
You know it's a real concern,and especially in smaller
communities.
But you know we're seeing somuch progress.
Nations are taking theirhousing on themselves and saying
we want learn together but alsobe able to make sure that
(23:22):
nations have then the capacityfor them to be able to keep the
housing upkeep all the waythrough.
That, I think, is the greaterpartnership.
The housing is important, butthat institutional change
actually is the game changer formany years, generations going
forward game changer for manyyears, generations going forward
.
Aaron Pete (23:42):
A few tough questions for you.
If the policies are working,why are housing starts down 11%
this year?
Ravi Kahlon (23:45):
Well, I would say that, first off, the last four
years have been the highesthousing starts in BC's history.
So last year was the highesthousing starts ever and so, yes,
you can say we're 11% lowerthan the highest we've ever been
.
But we have had the last lowerthan the highest we've ever been
, but we have had the last fouryears the highest ever.
So we have headwinds.
I mean I'm not denying interestrates going up real fast, the
(24:09):
cost of goods and materialsgoing into our projects.
Now the tariffs we got tons ofheadwinds but we are double per
capita of Ontario.
We are dramatically higher thanmost other jurisdictions.
Only Alberta this year passedus per capita for housings.
But if you look at the lastseven years we have been blowing
things out of the water andthat gives me hope.
(24:31):
And what we're seeing alreadyin communities is vacancy rates
are going up.
You know CMHC actually projectsthat if we keep going on the
trend line we're going on, wecan start seeing communities
like Victoria and othercommunities at 3%.
That is unheard of incommunities in British Columbia.
We're seeing rents, accordingto rentalsca, coming down for
(24:52):
the last nine months Every month, new units going on their site
for less and less money.
So you know these are goodindicators that we're heading in
the right direction.
We're not there yet.
We have a lot more work to do.
Aaron Pete (25:04):
Why has Vancouver's Expo lands sat undeveloped for
40 years?
Ravi Kahlon (25:08):
Yeah, frustrating.
I mean, if you want to posterchild, for why you just don't
give up private lands, publiclands, to private interests and
hope that will solve the problem.
There's one, I mean, LittleMountain is another one, this is
another one, and so you knowit's frustrating.
And one of the things thatwe're working on right now is
saying to Concord, the companythat owns the land, and to the
(25:32):
city of Vancouver let's get tothe table and let's figure out
what the problem is and let'sstart getting shovels in the
ground.
Those are thousands of homesthat can help address a major
crisis that we have.
And I appreciate the land wassold 40 years ago.
I mean it's crazy to think thatX486 is 40 years tomorrow and
there's still nothing to showfor it.
(25:53):
But I'm determined that that'sgoing to be one of the pieces
that we get across the line.
We're already starting thatconversation and I'm hopeful we
will move it forward.
Aaron Pete (26:01):
How real is the US tariff threat and what's BC's
plan?
Very real.
Ravi Kahlon (26:07):
And I am, you know, I was the Minister for Economic
Recovery through the pandemic,and I can tell you the same
trauma has come back right upagain, because in this case,
this is more unpredictable thanCOVID was, and so that's a real
challenge for us, and so thethreat is real.
We're taking it very seriously.
We're looking at measures to beable to respond to tariffs,
(26:34):
because you have to respond.
You can't simply say they'regoing to put tariffs on us and
we're going to say it's OK,because if we do that, there's
more coming.
I can guarantee you that we'reworking on elements to
strengthen.
The Premier announced 18projects that will be expedited
that will help with our economicgrowth, mostly around clean
energy.
Twelve of those projects aremajority First Nations ownership
, which is amazing.
(26:55):
That's something you neverwould have heard of before, and
so we have a lot of work to do.
And then, lastly, to diversify.
We have to find new markets,more to Asia, more across the
country, and those are thethings that we're working on
right now.
Aaron Pete (27:09):
Field hockey or politics.
Which is tougher?
Ravi Kahlon (27:12):
Well, you know what ?
My first team I ever played onin field hockey was an all-girls
team, because there was no boysplaying at that time, and when
I walked in the field I thoughtthis is great, and then I left
the field beat up and bruisedbecause the girls decided that
they wanted to teach me a lesson.
So I would say that was tougherthan than politics.
But overall, politics is reallife and it impacts people's
(27:35):
lives, and so I find that muchtougher than a sport that I love
, that I was committed to, butwhen you took your uniform off,
you were not impacting others'lives as much.
Aaron Pete (27:47):
It seems like we're in a very tumultuous time.
There's a lot of unknowns.
What would you say to BritishColumbians right now?
Ravi Kahlon (27:55):
Well, I would say to them that just like through
the pandemic, just through othercrises, we're going to be that.
Just like through the pandemic,just through other crises,
we're going to be there.
We're going to be there tosupport them.
We're going to support workerswho are worried about the
impacts of forestry mining.
We're going to work with FirstNations communities to ensure
that they're part of therecovery that will come from
this.
We're going to work with allpartners, and what gives me the
(28:17):
most hope is that all ourpartners are at one table
talking about solutions together, as opposed to every community
in their corner trying to figureout what they're going to do.
And so we're going to make itthrough.
I'm confident of that.
There will be some challengingdays ahead, but I'm just proud
of the response we're seeingacross the country.
Aaron Pete (28:38):
Minister, I really appreciate you being willing to
take the time.
Please tell people how they canfollow along with your work.
Ravi Kahlon (28:44):
Well, you can follow me on social media and
certainly we're pretty publicwith all the things we're doing,
and I certainly hope thatyou'll have me back on again for
an update of how things aregoing.
Aaron Pete (28:55):
That sounds fantastic.
First, I'd just like to thankyou.
I find you to be very engagedin the communications process
and I think obviously it's atemperament thing for some
people it's hard to put yourselfout there, but your willingness
to engage during the lastelection really stood out to me
personally and your willingnessto do interviews like this.
(29:17):
You didn't know what questionsI was going to ask.
I think that is a sign of ahealthy democracy when we're
able to have these conversations, and I just really appreciate
you and your team for beingwilling to take this time.
Thank you.
Ravi Kahlon (29:27):
I raise my hands to you.
Thank you for creating thespace for this.
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