December 22, 2025 • 37 mins
NOTE: This episode originally aired in October of 2023. Since then, Brendan and Amanda and family have moved from Whistler to Nelson, BC. They now own a family car, which they mostly use to get to the mountain to ski. They continue to cycle year-round.
Peter Ladner brings in son Brendan and daughter-in-law Amanda to expose the reality of life as a bikes-only family in Whistler, BC. We talk ice, snow, studded tires, e-bikes, singing kids, irate drivers, and Whistler's political will ... or notable lack thereof.
Read about the Whistler Climate Action Plan at
www.whistler.ca/climate-action/big-moves
Please feel free to reach out to Amanda Ladner at amandabelle@gmail.com if you'd like to talk Whistler, bikes, or family cycling.
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The Bike Sense podcast with Peter Ladner is produced by the BC Cycling Coalition – your voice for safer and more accessible cycling and active transportation in British Columbia. Membership in the BCCC is now FREE! The future of this podcast depends on people like you becoming members at BCCycling.ca. Please join us.
Got feedback or ideas for future episodes? Please drop us an email at admin@bccycling.ca.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
The following is an encore broadcast of an episode
we originally aired in Octoberof 2023.
Since this interview, the Ladnerclan has moved to Nelson.
They now own a family car, butthey say they mostly use it just
to get to the mountain to ski,and they still cycle through the
winter.
SPEAKER_04 (01:06):
Welcome to BikeSense, the BC Cycling
Coalition's podcast where wetalk about all things related to
cycling advocacy, education, andsafety in BC.
I'm your host, Peter Latier, thechair of the board of the BC
Cycling Coalition.
I hope you enjoy the show.
(01:27):
My guests today are Brendan andAmanda Latin.
This is the nepotism podcast.
Brendan is my son, Amanda's mydaughter-in-law, and they are
the parents of my two of mygrandchildren, Gavin and Soren,
age nine and six.
And the reason that we'retalking is that Brennan and
(01:48):
Amanda live in Whistler, andthey have not had a car for I'll
get the exact number of years.
How many years?
SPEAKER_03 (01:56):
We're moving on three years here.
SPEAKER_04 (01:58):
Three years without a car, and they've done
everything they need to do withtwo e-bikes and sometimes some
trailers.
We're going to get into how theymade it all work.
But first of all, welcomeBrendan, welcome Amanda.
SPEAKER_02 (02:12):
Happy to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
Yay.
SPEAKER_04 (02:15):
Amanda, could you describe from your point of view
what it's been like to have twobikes, no car?
SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
It's been a process that we've had to learn over
time.
And I think that's with any uhbig change you make.
Uh it's a big change, so thenyou have to keep adapting and
responding to that and uh andjust making the priority about
safety always.
SPEAKER_04 (02:45):
Can you tell us tell us what you do specifically with
the kids and the bikes?
SPEAKER_01 (02:52):
Yeah, so we yeah, we take them to school.
Um, that's every day.
Uh we take them to the mountain.
So on the weekends when the snowcomes, we bike them straight to
the foot of the mountain and uhand get on the lift.
And uh we bike them to thegrocery store and we grocery
shop.
Uh and if we need to travel,we've even biked, uh, we've put
(03:16):
the bikes on uh the bus andwe've taken the bikes to
Vancouver and then onwards toVictoria, and then we get off
the bus and then we bike towhere our travel destination is,
wherever that might be.
So we bike all around.
And as transportation becomesmore accessible for e-bikes,
(03:38):
we'll continue to expand uh howfar we go.
But certainly uh it has uh madeour footprint smaller in the
sense that we don't try to go asfar places, we don't necessarily
go up to Pemberton just for, youknow, on a whim or up to Joffrey
Lakes.
We have to be very conscious ofusing and utilizing the
(03:58):
neighborhood and the amenitiesthat we have close by.
SPEAKER_04 (04:03):
Brendan, what have you learned and how have you
adjusted as the years go by one-biking everywhere?
SPEAKER_03 (04:13):
Well, boy, we've learned a lot.
Well, first we got an e-bike andthen we learned that we needed
two e-bikes because we competedfor who would get the e-bike,
because you realize for example,going to the ski hill, it's so
much easier with an e-bike thanwalking or driving because you
(04:35):
can drive your e-bike right tothe edge of the snow, park
within a few steps of the lifts,and so we used to fight about
who got to take the e-bike tothe mountain to go skiing
because the other person didn'twant to have to walk home the
whole ten minutes.
SPEAKER_04 (04:55):
So you've got two bikes, but you've also got did
you have to get trailers?
Do you want the kids just righton behind you on the seat?
How does that work?
SPEAKER_03 (05:03):
Well, first you have to decide what bike is best
suited for your needs.
So in our case, we want a bikethat can carry two kids on it.
Uh sometimes three kids if theyhave friends with us.
And uh so we demoed a few bikes.
And for example, the rad wagonhas a very long wheelbase, it's
(05:26):
quite difficult to maneuver.
And in Whistler, uh, becausethey've built so many
impediments to the smooth travelof bicycles, you have to go
through these gates and do theseawkward turns and things.
And it was all it was very, verydifficult to do that in a safe
way because you have to comebasically to complete stop on a
(05:48):
rad wagon.
So we found that the volt bikeKodiak that we got was a better
choice for what we needed.
It's more agile.
And actually, since then, otherparents have replaced their rad
wagon with ours by speaking tous about what we do.
So you need the right bike forthat.
Um, also, it's got enough enoughpower to be able to carry two or
(06:12):
three people on it and get youup the hills.
SPEAKER_04 (06:16):
So let's cut to the winter.
Everybody's thinking, how do youdo this when there's ice and
snow on the road?
Amanda, how does it work?
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
Yeah, so it admittedly, the first year we
did not have the right setup.
Uh, we we I did have some slips.
Um, and so I definitelyencourage everyone to speak to
someone that does it and learnabout uh how to do it.
Um, it it's there's multiplesteps to it.
(06:47):
One is knowing your route reallywell already and knowing the
places that are, you know,potentially uh you can slip on.
So knowing your route and usingthe same route daily because
you'll see it change.
Um, second for me, the big lifechanger was the year uh that we
(07:09):
got snow tires.
So as soon as we got wintertires with studs in them.
SPEAKER_02 (07:15):
Studd, yeah, studded tires.
SPEAKER_01 (07:17):
Studded tires, it just changed my life.
Uh, it really made me it's verysafe to ride on snow, ice, any
kind of conditions.
You feel very supported.
Um, you still have to be veryconscientious and and watch
where you're going, but thestudded tires has changed my
life.
And so now I feel much morecomfortable going out in all
(07:40):
conditions when it's snowing.
Um, yeah, but certainly Brendandoes the major snow days,
admittedly, yes.
He's he'll still do those, um,which just so that I I'm not as
he feels more comfortable.
Um, I didn't grow up biking inthe snow, even though I grew up
in Edmonton.
I that wasn't part of oureveryday.
(08:02):
So yeah, the studded tires.
Then the next thing is you haveto dress properly.
You actually have to wear a fullski outfit, um, insulated, warm
on an e-bike.
It is cold.
Uh, you need to wear propergloves, a helmet, and goggles
because when it's snowing, youcan't see as well.
So you need to be able to havegoggles so you can see in all
(08:24):
lights, just like you would upthe mountain.
SPEAKER_04 (08:26):
Brendan, can you elaborate on clothing and ways
to keep warm and dry?
You've got to get the kids onthe kids have to wear all this
stuff too?
SPEAKER_03 (08:37):
Well, yeah, the kids, it's great if the kids
have uh a onesie, but they'rewearing ski gear.
SPEAKER_04 (08:42):
Well, not everybody.
SPEAKER_03 (08:43):
Yeah, but not everybody listening to this is
Okay, so let's go, let's gothrough what that is, right?
You have a base layer, you whichbasically uh we live in the
mountains, so I'm wearing a baselayer on my pants, uh starting
end of October till the end ofApril.
Every day, all day, no matterwhat I'm wearing, unless I'm uh
at work.
SPEAKER_04 (09:00):
That that's like long underwear.
SPEAKER_03 (09:02):
Long underwear, yeah, like a marina wool base
layer.
Then you have whatever the pantsare, let's call it a pair of
jeans or a pair of pants, andthen you have uh uh snow pants.
Now, those snow pants, theygotta be loose, right?
If you have them tight fitting,which might work for skiing,
it's not the same because you'rebringing one knee up with the
other knee down, you need moreroom to move, right?
(09:25):
So I've tried, I've actually hadthree different pairs of pants,
but I keep going back to theoriginal pair because they have
the best mobility.
That pair needs to be insulated.
Just a simple shell means youwould need another layer of
pants underneath.
That gets a lot clunkier andtougher to move in.
So having uh an insulated pantthat is, let's call it one size
(09:49):
too big for you, with a waistthat you can get tightened,
tightened.
Now, also it's gonna get reallydirty.
Right?
You're gonna get dirty slush,you're gonna get stuff off your
chain, etc.
etc.
So uh just be ready that they'regonna get dirty.
So it was easy for me to choose.
I went to the thrift store, Igot a pair, and then the last
thing is is make sure thatthey're waterproof.
(10:12):
Right?
Water resistant, anything belowthe top level of waterproof is
not good enough because you aregonna get soaked.
Um, moving up the body, uh, muchto my wife's dismay, I wear a
workman's jacket uh from Mark'sWorkwear World that has the big
reflective thing on it, so it'slike a reflective vest because I
(10:36):
feel safer on darker mornings,having more visibility.
Also, the jacket is immediatelywarm when you put it on and is
pretty good, except for on thewettest of days.
And the wettest of days, you'vegot to wear the actual Gore-Tex,
where you know, your HeliHansen, Arcteryx, whatever, that
high-end Gore-Tex that willreally keep you dry.
The goggles need to be light, soyellow or clear, as if you're
(11:00):
going night skiing, becauseyou're gonna be biking at night.
If you have any tint in them,it's gonna impede your
visibility.
And then lastly, uh it's themitts, bar mitts, they're
called, which are the neoprenepockets that sit on the outside
of your uh handlebars.
That's gonna keep your hands dryand warm and keep the wind off.
(11:20):
I tried Hestrar gloves, I triedsnowmobiling gloves, I bought
all different pairs of gloves,and nothing will keep your hands
warm.
You can wear lousy gloves in thebar bits, and your hands will
stay warm because there's nowind and there's no water,
there's no snow getting ontoyour hands.
So, from the gear perspective,that's my additions to Amanda's
(11:41):
uh insights there.
SPEAKER_04 (11:42):
Okay, so now you're warm and dry and you got your
studded tires.
Amanda, where do you go whereyou're not gonna be in danger of
being hit by a car or a truck?
SPEAKER_01 (11:52):
Mm-hmm.
Well, it's an important questionbecause where do you go?
It's uh you do need to share theroads.
Um, you're you're gonna besharing the roads, and so the
municipalities that are makingbikes a priority, that means
before cars, before trucks.
(12:15):
That's what making biking is apriority in terms of the their
those individuals' safety.
It's a net gain to everyone, themunicipalities that are actually
trying to make biking safe.
It is just an ultimate gain forall the community.
And so, admittedly, I'm gonnasay there's certain
(12:37):
municipalities that are makingit safe, it's doing their best.
Uh, Vancouver and Victoria aresome of the best places to bike.
And and I know that I spoke tothe Gibson's mayor, and he is
also very invested in in this aswell.
So we'll see if he does it.
Um, but yeah, where do I go?
I mean, I prefer to bike on thevalley trail.
(12:59):
And the problem with that isthat it's caused our community a
quite a bit of upheaval becausemy e-bike goes 20 kilometers an
hour and I'm moving quickly, andthere's and we're sharing the
path with pedestrians, cycliststhat are not on e-bikes,
mountain bikers, dog walkers,right?
So it's becoming that trafficand that ability to maneuver
(13:25):
around multiple flows within thevalley trail system is now
something that is causing us tochange and adapt as a community.
And as I said earlier in thispodcast, it's been an adaptation
and evolution since we startedand moved here.
Um, certainly when we firstmoved here, we were some of the
(13:46):
only ones electric with electricbikes on everyday commuting
versus some people will take outelectric bikes just for a fun
lifestyle or tourist engagementfor an hour of a day, right?
So it's not, there was a littlebit of e-biking, but it wasn't
like it is three years later.
Now what we're seeing is moreand more families and parents
(14:09):
inspired and motivated to taketheir kids on an e-bike because
it's just easier in a hillyplace to get your kids around,
get them to soccer practice, getthem to, you know, this year
we've been in baseball now threeyears, and we started being the
only electric bike family comingin onto the baseball diamond
(14:30):
with our two kids.
But now we come to baseball andthere's all those electric bikes
with all their kids.
Um, and that's great because uhmore and more what we're seeing
is that that's beneficial forchildren as well to be spending
time outside um for that longerperiod of time.
And and so we'll see.
I'm sure that those families arealso having um challenges and
(14:53):
adapting as we've had to do.
And so now more and morefamilies will ask us about our
tires and how we set up ourbaskets and all of this.
So it's a it's a learning, it'sa learning together, and we need
to continue to be learningtogether and and helping each
other out.
SPEAKER_04 (15:15):
So, Amanda, you've talked about how some parents
have been inspired.
Brendan, can you talk a littlemore about the reaction you get
when you're riding around on ane-bike, either from parents or
drivers or politicians thatyou're lobbying to try to get
support?
What's it been like?
SPEAKER_03 (15:33):
Well, there's a few layers to that.
Uh, because when you're bikingin the winter, you have to bike
where it's plowed.
And the Valley Trail, which uhis a multi-use path, gets plowed
most of the time, especially ifyou call them and tell them it
hasn't been plowed.
(15:54):
Uh but they aren't, it's notalways plowed ready for your
morning commute.
However, the roads are alwaysplowed for your morning commute.
So you end up having to bike onthe road.
And when you bike on the road,you have to bike where it's
plowed, which means that you arein the way of people driving
cars and trucks, and even thoughthe speed limit's 30, and even
(16:18):
though we have studded tires andwe're going 30, they get very
impatient.
SPEAKER_04 (16:22):
So just let me be clear are you out in the
traffic, like in the same pathas the cars and trucks, or are
you just off to the side but notvery far off?
SPEAKER_03 (16:30):
You there's only a path wide enough for one car.
You can't be on the side,otherwise, you're in a foot of
snow.
You're talking about residentialstreets.
SPEAKER_04 (16:40):
Residential streets or on the highway.
SPEAKER_03 (16:42):
I'm talking about residential streets on snowy
days.
SPEAKER_02 (16:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:46):
Uh in fact, to get from our house to school, there
is no multi-use path to take.
You have to go on the road.
Right?
Because otherwise, if we tookthe multi-use path, we would
take a four-kilometer trip,which is otherwise 1.6
kilometers, uh, if we stay onthe roads.
So we have to bike on the roads.
And when it snows, you have tobike where it's been plowed,
(17:09):
which means you are therefore inthe way of a truck that is
capable of going faster than thespeed limit, with a driver that
desperately wants to go fasterthan you.
So uh what we find is likedefinitely on the snowy days
when you have to go in themiddle of the road, you will be
subjected to aggressive behaviorby impatient drivers because
(17:31):
there's not like if it was aplastic bag on the road, people
would slow down.
Oh, what's that?
Drive around it.
But if it's a cyclistdeliberately in front of you,
being safe with their family, Idon't know if anything enrages
pickup truck drivers more thanthat.
And so we get subjected to closepasses, we get subjected to
yelling, people have thrownstuff at us, um, lots of
(17:55):
dangerous driving behavior.
And unfortunately, you gottabuild a thick skin if you want
to be a change maker, becausethe trucks are the status quo,
and we're trying to makepositive change, and we're just
actually trying to get around ona bike.
And uh sometimes you have toI've had I know Amanda's had
more experiences than me becausepeople will uh speak down to
(18:18):
women more than to men.
So, but uh, anyways, you have toshare the road.
So there's confrontation and toget through the center of
Whistler, the village, which isour town center, there is no
multi-use path to get around.
There's only sidewalks where youhave to walk your bike.
So you are forced to go on theroads.
So unfortunately, we are forcedthrough the design of the
(18:41):
infrastructure of our town to bein conflict with drivers uh on
snowy days.
SPEAKER_04 (18:47):
Talk a little bit about the kids.
Like they're what it's like forthem to either be on the on the
on the bike on a happy day orwhen somebody's yelling at you.
Amanda?
Do they enjoy it?
Do they look forward to gettingon the bike?
SPEAKER_01 (19:04):
Oh, yeah.
I mean, well, again, so you haveto understand that there isn't
an option, right?
Like we there's not anotherchoice.
That's how we get around.
So the kids, uh, the kids aredefinitely of, you know, they
enjoy it.
When we first started, myyounger one used to sing the
whole time.
(19:25):
He would just sing and he wouldsing me as we, you know, biked
around the town and um even onsnowy days, you know.
So uh I think they have, youknow, what we would term a
grittiness for it, um, which isis built, it's developed.
Um, they know they need to dressin a certain way.
(19:46):
They will sometimes choose tonot, but that that has its own
consequences.
Um, but I mean, and definitelythe safety, safety first.
So we're always trying to besafe.
Um I have to say, like my kidsdon't like it when we get
verbally abused by drivers.
Like they will start nowshouting back and uh and because
(20:09):
they feel it and it's it's veryit's very unkind towards us.
Um it's uh they know that itit's it not only distracts us,
but it it uh it it reallyimpacts us.
It's very stressful to be yelledat by cars and trucks and taxi
drivers.
Get out of the way, youshouldn't be on the road.
(20:31):
Like, well, where are wesupposed to go?
Um, and so it uh I have uhcontacted the municipality and
telling.
them that we are abused becausewe don't have our own space to
to bike.
And so is, you know, it's morethan just a safety issue for us
(20:53):
sharing the path.
It's a safety issue for our ownemotional and psychological
safety.
And it's it's very, it's it'svery sad actually.
It's sad that drivers are soanxious about us being on the
road.
They don't want to hit us, youknow, they don't want to do
that.
And so there's a fear.
(21:14):
There is a fear that somewherein that anger, and I hear it and
I do have compassion for it.
But I just every time I justwant to say well then tell your
municipality to prioritize bikesso that we don't have to share
the road.
SPEAKER_04 (21:30):
Let's talk about that for a minute.
As you may know, the BC CyclingCoalition is championing safe
routes throughout the province.
And Whistler actually rankspretty high by by the number of
kilometers of so-calledprotected routes for cyclists.
Brendan, you've taken thispretty seriously I know and you
(21:52):
ran for council, almost gotelected on this as part of your
platform.
What has been the reaction fromthe politicians?
Because Whistler, along with somany other municipalities, has
an active transportation planthat purports to be delivering
the very benefits that you'relooking for.
The province has a clean BC planthat's trying to get people
(22:14):
supposedly out of their cars todoing the very things you're
doing, but it doesn't sound likeit's landing very well on the
road.
SPEAKER_03 (22:21):
So discuss the just tell us a little bit about the
political climate, the supportfor what you're doing at the
municipal level well first uhI'm going to question the
methodology of the BC CyclingCoalition to have been able to
give Whistler a good scorebecause multi-use path is not a
protected bike lane.
SPEAKER_04 (22:39):
Well let's be clear and as we're not we're not
advocates of multi-use pathseither but I it's not our
rankings but other people havesaid by some measures of of uh
comfort and convenience and soon you do have Whistler has
Whistler has exactly six feet ofprotected bike lane six total
feet of bike only infrastructureand it's not even open because
(23:04):
they built it and neverconnected it on either end.
SPEAKER_03 (23:07):
There is nowhere in Whistler where bike has priority
zero kilometers.
Any not even one square inch ofWhistler prioritizes cycling
because it's all valley trailwhich we is our multi-use path
network here and it says veryclearly that pedestrians have
(23:27):
right of way dogs have right ofway the speed limit is 15
kilometers an hour and that isthe core of our cycling
infrastructure in Whistler infact that's the entirety of the
cycling infrastructure inWhistler and so uh as Amanda's
already talked about you'reforced into conflict with people
who don't want you there.
And car drivers who are takingtheir dogs for walks on the
(23:51):
trail really do not want you andyour family and your trailer and
your kids going 30 kilometerstrying to get where you want to
go.
SPEAKER_04 (23:58):
Okay but let's get back to the politics you Amanda
mentioned you you you talked tothe Muni.
What do they say?
Why did are they actually goingto fix it?
SPEAKER_03 (24:07):
They throw up their hands they say we've got this
amazing valley trail what areyou talking about?
Why aren't you using it?
Why aren't you taking thismeandering trail that takes
twice as many kilometers to getyou where you want to go that's
the they think they've alreadythey've already done it and they
shrug their shoulders becausethey don't bike yeah the
politicians don't bikebureaucrats don't bike but also
(24:34):
um there is biking of a uhdriver's mindset of cyclists who
have people who have cars whothink car first and then there's
people who only have bikes andwhen you only have a bike you
see the world through adifferent lens and I think it's
psychologically impossible forthe people in government in
(24:55):
Whistler to think cyclist first.
Now they've had since 2012 theevery transportation plan that's
ever been released says we willprioritize biking and walking
yet there is not even one inchof cycle only trail in Whistler.
SPEAKER_01 (25:11):
And it's our number one climate action that they
were we're trying to take in ourbig six climate actions is to
encourage people to take to bikeand walk which is so funny it's
like their number one priorityand they're they themselves the
politicians except for Kathydon't bike and I saw then I've
called them out via letters tothe peak newspaper or local
(25:36):
saying have you tried it haveyou actually done it because
once you do it and you try toget to the library to the school
right to to the grocery storethe three most important things
you don't have safe biking.
It is not safe and I need to Ineed to take my kids to the
library and I need to take mykids to the mountain and so and
(25:59):
so every day we are negotiatingour own safety every day.
SPEAKER_03 (26:03):
And and to do it you almost have to put your elbows
out and take up space on theroad so you're not pushed off
the road and by doing so it isperceived by the drivers that we
are creating the conflict whenactually we just want to be
safe.
SPEAKER_04 (26:20):
Well I should say that uh the BC Cycle coalition
and numerous other cyclingadvocates have been championing
a safe passing distance where acar passing a bike would have to
keep at least one meter, 1.5meters away I'm not sure that's
going to have a lot of impact inyour situation.
But uh I wanted to just umchange subject slightly we
(26:40):
talked about your you're onlywith e-bikes first of all does
it have to be an e-bike do yousee people who don't have
e-bikes but just have regularbikes it absolutely must be an
e-bike 125% you have hills youhave weight you can't take two
kids and then the other thing wehaven't even talked about here
so far is that you have to havea trailer.
SPEAKER_03 (27:01):
Yeah the trailer is the trunk of the car that you're
towing behind your bike that'show you carry your groceries
that's how you carry your skisthat's how you carry your picnic
stuff your festival chairs yourblankets your coolers uh all of
those things so uh you have tohave that and you can't possibly
tow that up a hill pedalingbecause you'll get you'll start
sweating in 10 pedals.
SPEAKER_04 (27:22):
Okay so you've got the e-bikes but and you've
mentioned that sometimes you'llbe going to Vancouver so you put
the e-bikes in the in the busbecause you can't drive to
Vancouver in your car uh whatare other some some other
workarounds you must take taxisat some point you must rent cars
and so on and if you could justtalk about that and also the the
savings you're yeah like haveyou worked out the dollar
(27:43):
savings of doing this versusowning a car either one of you
can yeah the uh when uh theaverage car owner in Canada
spends eleven thousand dollars ayear on their car and let's say
you're being cheap and you havea beater and you don't have to
repair it much you're probablypaying half that much you know
(28:06):
um so if you consider yourbudget of even if it's$500 per
month well it costs nine centsto fill a bike battery from zero
to full um so basically the costof the energy is negligible uh
(28:27):
which means that there are timeswhere you will take a taxi but
you don't flinch at it becauseyou've saved all this money of
course splash on a taxi treatyourself you're going out for a
nice dinner you dress nice takea taxi of course take a taxi if
we want to go to uh visit ourrelatives somewhere else in
(28:47):
British Columbia we rent a carbut you have budget to do that
you don't flinch and did youknow renting a car for an entire
month is only$1400 for a brandnew car it's not even that
expensive it's barely much morethan owning a car yourself.
SPEAKER_03 (29:03):
So we do spend money on those things.
And when we go to Vancouver wetake the bus and what we've
learned is gosh is it morerelaxing taking the bus.
You don't worry about trafficyou get to go through HOV lanes
and then we get there we takeour bikes out of the bottom and
we can zip around Vancouverfaster than you could in a car.
And it's fun.
SPEAKER_04 (29:22):
Yeah how much fun is it?
Because we always say thatcycling is more fun but then
those people if you're sittingin your the comfort of your car
and you're looking at somebodyin the rain and the snow and the
you can't you wonder that's notpossibly fun.
Is it fun?
SPEAKER_03 (29:37):
Hell yeah it's fun even in the rain and snow it's
fun because when you're in theelements and you're out there
like actually feeling the worldon your skin it feels good.
SPEAKER_01 (29:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:49):
And there's no doubt that our kids arrive at school
our teachers have told us thisthat the kids arrive at school
more invigorated first of allthey're always properly dressed
for school because they had toto get to school so playtime and
stuff they have the right gearinstead of being thrown into a
warm car.
And we you know we chit chat andwe sing and we do all kinds of
(30:11):
stuff while we're biking in theelements and like our kids don't
care if it's minus 20 andsnowing because they don't they
never mention it.
Is it is it a like torrentialrainstorm?
They don't care because they'vegot the right gear.
SPEAKER_01 (30:26):
It's fun we're just getting over that's how we get
around is it always fun for youAmanda is it always fun it's
both it's both challenging andso in that way it is fun.
And uh you know I'm gonna behonest some days it's very
uncomfortable you know and sowe've we're always adapting and
(30:48):
trying to make it morecomfortable more safe and so
this is a a constant adaptationand yeah I've you know the more
comfortable you are uh the morethe more you enjoy it so dress
warm uh and on rainy days uhdress properly right so that you
arrive in your place and you'reyou just take off all your stuff
(31:11):
you don't you know and thenyou're you're basically in your
clothes.
So the nice thing about e-bikingis that you'll minorly sweat.
So those uh end-of-usefacilities that everyone is
promoting, sure that's good.
It's better just to have aproper hanger for people and
boots so that people canbasically almost dry their stuff
(31:34):
versus having a whole you don'tneed a whole shower and stuff,
right?
That would be involved if youwere just cycling to work.
So I like that.
SPEAKER_03 (31:42):
I like that you don't arrive all sweaty um but
you've still been outsideenjoying the elements and
getting to your place quickerthan a vehicle so we're gonna
wrap up and I'd just like to askboth of you to talk to other
people in the province insmaller towns situations like
(32:02):
yours maybe without a multi-usepath um what's your what's your
sort of general advice uhoverall uh suggestions to them
to make this possible in theirlives Brendan you gotta start
doing it that's the biggestthing because the critical mass
(32:26):
the more people that do it themore people will see that they
do it the more people doing itthe safer it gets so if you have
an e-bike you have the traileryou've got all the right gear
gear you've got you know notjust one set but probably a
second set as well so that ifyou come home soaking wet but
you need to go out again in anhour or two your stuff isn't dry
(32:46):
you've got a second set it onlytakes 45 seconds to take all of
your wet stuff off and be inyour home or office close right
but you've got to start doing itand then um as a part of that
you're going to be seen doing itand that will inspire others
because we have had otherparents in Whistler come to us
(33:08):
and say we've seen you do itevery day all winter so we know
it's possible like what do wegot to do and we are constantly
coaching other people in what todo but we accept coaching as
well we bumped into a woman lastwinter she had studded tires on
the bike we model we have withthese obscure tire size so we
had to ask her hey how do you dothis what we're you know what
(33:30):
size oh this version of the bikeyou have to take the fender off
if you want studded tires thisthe version you have you don't
need to and it's those types ofthings and then when you're
doing it you're given thumbs upsyou know you're you're cheering
people on you're given thosesmiles but we're all smiling at
each other when we do it thereare smiles shared and that's the
(33:52):
part of what makes it fun.
SPEAKER_04 (33:56):
Amanda, anything to add to that?
SPEAKER_01 (33:58):
Yeah I just want to add to the real commitment uh
all we're asking is that youcommit to doing short-term trips
so that's going to the grocerystore just commit to biking to
the grocery store if you canmake that one change I know
everyone says I have to I haveto drive my car to work
everybody says it so okay youknow but just bike to the
(34:22):
grocery store just bike yourkids to school that those two
things if you can commit to thatright and I know a lot of
parents drop their kids offbefore they you know drive to
work but really ask yourself doI need to drive do I absolutely
need to drive and define foryourself like what's what's the
(34:42):
distance right do I need to do Ineed to drive right now and if
you can walk or bike walk andbike that's a great note to end
on Amanda Ladner mydaughter-in-law Brendan my son
uh thank you so much for uhsharing your insights and uh I'm
sure you're somehow available uhwe can certainly make your
(35:05):
contacts available through theBC Cycling Coalition if anybody
wants to talk to you and uh wewant to uh encourage anybody
listening to join the BC CyclingCoalition so we can keep doing
podcasts like this and help uhadvance more quickly a safe
cycling future for BC thanks forlistening to Bic6 and supporting
(35:29):
safe cycling in BC pleasesubscribe so you don't miss an
episode BC Cycling Coalitionrelies on your support please
consider becoming a member andadding your voice to the call
for safer and more accessiblecycling in BC special thanks to
(35:51):
our sponsors BC Hydro RichardFuel ICBC Moto and the bicycle
visit us at BCcycling.ca
The following is an encore broadcast of an episode
we originally aired in Octoberof 2023.
Since this interview, the Ladnerclan has moved to Nelson.
They now own a family car, butthey say they mostly use it just
to get to the mountain to ski,and they still cycle through the
winter.
SPEAKER_04 (01:06):
Welcome to BikeSense, the BC Cycling
Coalition's podcast where wetalk about all things related to
cycling advocacy, education, andsafety in BC.
I'm your host, Peter Latier, thechair of the board of the BC
Cycling Coalition.
I hope you enjoy the show.
(01:27):
My guests today are Brendan andAmanda Latin.
This is the nepotism podcast.
Brendan is my son, Amanda's mydaughter-in-law, and they are
the parents of my two of mygrandchildren, Gavin and Soren,
age nine and six.
And the reason that we'retalking is that Brennan and
(01:48):
Amanda live in Whistler, andthey have not had a car for I'll
get the exact number of years.
How many years?
SPEAKER_03 (01:56):
We're moving on three years here.
SPEAKER_04 (01:58):
Three years without a car, and they've done
everything they need to do withtwo e-bikes and sometimes some
trailers.
We're going to get into how theymade it all work.
But first of all, welcomeBrendan, welcome Amanda.
SPEAKER_02 (02:12):
Happy to be here.
SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
Yay.
SPEAKER_04 (02:15):
Amanda, could you describe from your point of view
what it's been like to have twobikes, no car?
SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
It's been a process that we've had to learn over
time.
And I think that's with any uhbig change you make.
Uh it's a big change, so thenyou have to keep adapting and
responding to that and uh andjust making the priority about
safety always.
SPEAKER_04 (02:45):
Can you tell us tell us what you do specifically with
the kids and the bikes?
SPEAKER_01 (02:52):
Yeah, so we yeah, we take them to school.
Um, that's every day.
Uh we take them to the mountain.
So on the weekends when the snowcomes, we bike them straight to
the foot of the mountain and uhand get on the lift.
And uh we bike them to thegrocery store and we grocery
shop.
Uh and if we need to travel,we've even biked, uh, we've put
(03:16):
the bikes on uh the bus andwe've taken the bikes to
Vancouver and then onwards toVictoria, and then we get off
the bus and then we bike towhere our travel destination is,
wherever that might be.
So we bike all around.
And as transportation becomesmore accessible for e-bikes,
(03:38):
we'll continue to expand uh howfar we go.
But certainly uh it has uh madeour footprint smaller in the
sense that we don't try to go asfar places, we don't necessarily
go up to Pemberton just for, youknow, on a whim or up to Joffrey
Lakes.
We have to be very conscious ofusing and utilizing the
(03:58):
neighborhood and the amenitiesthat we have close by.
SPEAKER_04 (04:03):
Brendan, what have you learned and how have you
adjusted as the years go by one-biking everywhere?
SPEAKER_03 (04:13):
Well, boy, we've learned a lot.
Well, first we got an e-bike andthen we learned that we needed
two e-bikes because we competedfor who would get the e-bike,
because you realize for example,going to the ski hill, it's so
much easier with an e-bike thanwalking or driving because you
(04:35):
can drive your e-bike right tothe edge of the snow, park
within a few steps of the lifts,and so we used to fight about
who got to take the e-bike tothe mountain to go skiing
because the other person didn'twant to have to walk home the
whole ten minutes.
SPEAKER_04 (04:55):
So you've got two bikes, but you've also got did
you have to get trailers?
Do you want the kids just righton behind you on the seat?
How does that work?
SPEAKER_03 (05:03):
Well, first you have to decide what bike is best
suited for your needs.
So in our case, we want a bikethat can carry two kids on it.
Uh sometimes three kids if theyhave friends with us.
And uh so we demoed a few bikes.
And for example, the rad wagonhas a very long wheelbase, it's
(05:26):
quite difficult to maneuver.
And in Whistler, uh, becausethey've built so many
impediments to the smooth travelof bicycles, you have to go
through these gates and do theseawkward turns and things.
And it was all it was very, verydifficult to do that in a safe
way because you have to comebasically to complete stop on a
(05:48):
rad wagon.
So we found that the volt bikeKodiak that we got was a better
choice for what we needed.
It's more agile.
And actually, since then, otherparents have replaced their rad
wagon with ours by speaking tous about what we do.
So you need the right bike forthat.
Um, also, it's got enough enoughpower to be able to carry two or
(06:12):
three people on it and get youup the hills.
SPEAKER_04 (06:16):
So let's cut to the winter.
Everybody's thinking, how do youdo this when there's ice and
snow on the road?
Amanda, how does it work?
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
Yeah, so it admittedly, the first year we
did not have the right setup.
Uh, we we I did have some slips.
Um, and so I definitelyencourage everyone to speak to
someone that does it and learnabout uh how to do it.
Um, it it's there's multiplesteps to it.
(06:47):
One is knowing your route reallywell already and knowing the
places that are, you know,potentially uh you can slip on.
So knowing your route and usingthe same route daily because
you'll see it change.
Um, second for me, the big lifechanger was the year uh that we
(07:09):
got snow tires.
So as soon as we got wintertires with studs in them.
SPEAKER_02 (07:15):
Studd, yeah, studded tires.
SPEAKER_01 (07:17):
Studded tires, it just changed my life.
Uh, it really made me it's verysafe to ride on snow, ice, any
kind of conditions.
You feel very supported.
Um, you still have to be veryconscientious and and watch
where you're going, but thestudded tires has changed my
life.
And so now I feel much morecomfortable going out in all
(07:40):
conditions when it's snowing.
Um, yeah, but certainly Brendandoes the major snow days,
admittedly, yes.
He's he'll still do those, um,which just so that I I'm not as
he feels more comfortable.
Um, I didn't grow up biking inthe snow, even though I grew up
in Edmonton.
I that wasn't part of oureveryday.
(08:02):
So yeah, the studded tires.
Then the next thing is you haveto dress properly.
You actually have to wear a fullski outfit, um, insulated, warm
on an e-bike.
It is cold.
Uh, you need to wear propergloves, a helmet, and goggles
because when it's snowing, youcan't see as well.
So you need to be able to havegoggles so you can see in all
(08:24):
lights, just like you would upthe mountain.
SPEAKER_04 (08:26):
Brendan, can you elaborate on clothing and ways
to keep warm and dry?
You've got to get the kids onthe kids have to wear all this
stuff too?
SPEAKER_03 (08:37):
Well, yeah, the kids, it's great if the kids
have uh a onesie, but they'rewearing ski gear.
SPEAKER_04 (08:42):
Well, not everybody.
SPEAKER_03 (08:43):
Yeah, but not everybody listening to this is
Okay, so let's go, let's gothrough what that is, right?
You have a base layer, you whichbasically uh we live in the
mountains, so I'm wearing a baselayer on my pants, uh starting
end of October till the end ofApril.
Every day, all day, no matterwhat I'm wearing, unless I'm uh
at work.
SPEAKER_04 (09:00):
That that's like long underwear.
SPEAKER_03 (09:02):
Long underwear, yeah, like a marina wool base
layer.
Then you have whatever the pantsare, let's call it a pair of
jeans or a pair of pants, andthen you have uh uh snow pants.
Now, those snow pants, theygotta be loose, right?
If you have them tight fitting,which might work for skiing,
it's not the same because you'rebringing one knee up with the
other knee down, you need moreroom to move, right?
(09:25):
So I've tried, I've actually hadthree different pairs of pants,
but I keep going back to theoriginal pair because they have
the best mobility.
That pair needs to be insulated.
Just a simple shell means youwould need another layer of
pants underneath.
That gets a lot clunkier andtougher to move in.
So having uh an insulated pantthat is, let's call it one size
(09:49):
too big for you, with a waistthat you can get tightened,
tightened.
Now, also it's gonna get reallydirty.
Right?
You're gonna get dirty slush,you're gonna get stuff off your
chain, etc.
etc.
So uh just be ready that they'regonna get dirty.
So it was easy for me to choose.
I went to the thrift store, Igot a pair, and then the last
thing is is make sure thatthey're waterproof.
(10:12):
Right?
Water resistant, anything belowthe top level of waterproof is
not good enough because you aregonna get soaked.
Um, moving up the body, uh, muchto my wife's dismay, I wear a
workman's jacket uh from Mark'sWorkwear World that has the big
reflective thing on it, so it'slike a reflective vest because I
(10:36):
feel safer on darker mornings,having more visibility.
Also, the jacket is immediatelywarm when you put it on and is
pretty good, except for on thewettest of days.
And the wettest of days, you'vegot to wear the actual Gore-Tex,
where you know, your HeliHansen, Arcteryx, whatever, that
high-end Gore-Tex that willreally keep you dry.
The goggles need to be light, soyellow or clear, as if you're
(11:00):
going night skiing, becauseyou're gonna be biking at night.
If you have any tint in them,it's gonna impede your
visibility.
And then lastly, uh it's themitts, bar mitts, they're
called, which are the neoprenepockets that sit on the outside
of your uh handlebars.
That's gonna keep your hands dryand warm and keep the wind off.
(11:20):
I tried Hestrar gloves, I triedsnowmobiling gloves, I bought
all different pairs of gloves,and nothing will keep your hands
warm.
You can wear lousy gloves in thebar bits, and your hands will
stay warm because there's nowind and there's no water,
there's no snow getting ontoyour hands.
So, from the gear perspective,that's my additions to Amanda's
(11:41):
uh insights there.
SPEAKER_04 (11:42):
Okay, so now you're warm and dry and you got your
studded tires.
Amanda, where do you go whereyou're not gonna be in danger of
being hit by a car or a truck?
SPEAKER_01 (11:52):
Mm-hmm.
Well, it's an important questionbecause where do you go?
It's uh you do need to share theroads.
Um, you're you're gonna besharing the roads, and so the
municipalities that are makingbikes a priority, that means
before cars, before trucks.
(12:15):
That's what making biking is apriority in terms of the their
those individuals' safety.
It's a net gain to everyone, themunicipalities that are actually
trying to make biking safe.
It is just an ultimate gain forall the community.
And so, admittedly, I'm gonnasay there's certain
(12:37):
municipalities that are makingit safe, it's doing their best.
Uh, Vancouver and Victoria aresome of the best places to bike.
And and I know that I spoke tothe Gibson's mayor, and he is
also very invested in in this aswell.
So we'll see if he does it.
Um, but yeah, where do I go?
I mean, I prefer to bike on thevalley trail.
(12:59):
And the problem with that isthat it's caused our community a
quite a bit of upheaval becausemy e-bike goes 20 kilometers an
hour and I'm moving quickly, andthere's and we're sharing the
path with pedestrians, cycliststhat are not on e-bikes,
mountain bikers, dog walkers,right?
So it's becoming that trafficand that ability to maneuver
(13:25):
around multiple flows within thevalley trail system is now
something that is causing us tochange and adapt as a community.
And as I said earlier in thispodcast, it's been an adaptation
and evolution since we startedand moved here.
Um, certainly when we firstmoved here, we were some of the
(13:46):
only ones electric with electricbikes on everyday commuting
versus some people will take outelectric bikes just for a fun
lifestyle or tourist engagementfor an hour of a day, right?
So it's not, there was a littlebit of e-biking, but it wasn't
like it is three years later.
Now what we're seeing is moreand more families and parents
(14:09):
inspired and motivated to taketheir kids on an e-bike because
it's just easier in a hillyplace to get your kids around,
get them to soccer practice, getthem to, you know, this year
we've been in baseball now threeyears, and we started being the
only electric bike family comingin onto the baseball diamond
(14:30):
with our two kids.
But now we come to baseball andthere's all those electric bikes
with all their kids.
Um, and that's great because uhmore and more what we're seeing
is that that's beneficial forchildren as well to be spending
time outside um for that longerperiod of time.
And and so we'll see.
I'm sure that those families arealso having um challenges and
(14:53):
adapting as we've had to do.
And so now more and morefamilies will ask us about our
tires and how we set up ourbaskets and all of this.
So it's a it's a learning, it'sa learning together, and we need
to continue to be learningtogether and and helping each
other out.
SPEAKER_04 (15:15):
So, Amanda, you've talked about how some parents
have been inspired.
Brendan, can you talk a littlemore about the reaction you get
when you're riding around on ane-bike, either from parents or
drivers or politicians thatyou're lobbying to try to get
support?
What's it been like?
SPEAKER_03 (15:33):
Well, there's a few layers to that.
Uh, because when you're bikingin the winter, you have to bike
where it's plowed.
And the Valley Trail, which uhis a multi-use path, gets plowed
most of the time, especially ifyou call them and tell them it
hasn't been plowed.
(15:54):
Uh but they aren't, it's notalways plowed ready for your
morning commute.
However, the roads are alwaysplowed for your morning commute.
So you end up having to bike onthe road.
And when you bike on the road,you have to bike where it's
plowed, which means that you arein the way of people driving
cars and trucks, and even thoughthe speed limit's 30, and even
(16:18):
though we have studded tires andwe're going 30, they get very
impatient.
SPEAKER_04 (16:22):
So just let me be clear are you out in the
traffic, like in the same pathas the cars and trucks, or are
you just off to the side but notvery far off?
SPEAKER_03 (16:30):
You there's only a path wide enough for one car.
You can't be on the side,otherwise, you're in a foot of
snow.
You're talking about residentialstreets.
SPEAKER_04 (16:40):
Residential streets or on the highway.
SPEAKER_03 (16:42):
I'm talking about residential streets on snowy
days.
SPEAKER_02 (16:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (16:46):
Uh in fact, to get from our house to school, there
is no multi-use path to take.
You have to go on the road.
Right?
Because otherwise, if we tookthe multi-use path, we would
take a four-kilometer trip,which is otherwise 1.6
kilometers, uh, if we stay onthe roads.
So we have to bike on the roads.
And when it snows, you have tobike where it's been plowed,
(17:09):
which means you are therefore inthe way of a truck that is
capable of going faster than thespeed limit, with a driver that
desperately wants to go fasterthan you.
So uh what we find is likedefinitely on the snowy days
when you have to go in themiddle of the road, you will be
subjected to aggressive behaviorby impatient drivers because
(17:31):
there's not like if it was aplastic bag on the road, people
would slow down.
Oh, what's that?
Drive around it.
But if it's a cyclistdeliberately in front of you,
being safe with their family, Idon't know if anything enrages
pickup truck drivers more thanthat.
And so we get subjected to closepasses, we get subjected to
yelling, people have thrownstuff at us, um, lots of
(17:55):
dangerous driving behavior.
And unfortunately, you gottabuild a thick skin if you want
to be a change maker, becausethe trucks are the status quo,
and we're trying to makepositive change, and we're just
actually trying to get around ona bike.
And uh sometimes you have toI've had I know Amanda's had
more experiences than me becausepeople will uh speak down to
(18:18):
women more than to men.
So, but uh, anyways, you have toshare the road.
So there's confrontation and toget through the center of
Whistler, the village, which isour town center, there is no
multi-use path to get around.
There's only sidewalks where youhave to walk your bike.
So you are forced to go on theroads.
So unfortunately, we are forcedthrough the design of the
(18:41):
infrastructure of our town to bein conflict with drivers uh on
snowy days.
SPEAKER_04 (18:47):
Talk a little bit about the kids.
Like they're what it's like forthem to either be on the on the
on the bike on a happy day orwhen somebody's yelling at you.
Amanda?
Do they enjoy it?
Do they look forward to gettingon the bike?
SPEAKER_01 (19:04):
Oh, yeah.
I mean, well, again, so you haveto understand that there isn't
an option, right?
Like we there's not anotherchoice.
That's how we get around.
So the kids, uh, the kids aredefinitely of, you know, they
enjoy it.
When we first started, myyounger one used to sing the
whole time.
(19:25):
He would just sing and he wouldsing me as we, you know, biked
around the town and um even onsnowy days, you know.
So uh I think they have, youknow, what we would term a
grittiness for it, um, which isis built, it's developed.
Um, they know they need to dressin a certain way.
(19:46):
They will sometimes choose tonot, but that that has its own
consequences.
Um, but I mean, and definitelythe safety, safety first.
So we're always trying to besafe.
Um I have to say, like my kidsdon't like it when we get
verbally abused by drivers.
Like they will start nowshouting back and uh and because
(20:09):
they feel it and it's it's veryit's very unkind towards us.
Um it's uh they know that itit's it not only distracts us,
but it it uh it it reallyimpacts us.
It's very stressful to be yelledat by cars and trucks and taxi
drivers.
Get out of the way, youshouldn't be on the road.
(20:31):
Like, well, where are wesupposed to go?
Um, and so it uh I have uhcontacted the municipality and
telling.
them that we are abused becausewe don't have our own space to
to bike.
And so is, you know, it's morethan just a safety issue for us
(20:53):
sharing the path.
It's a safety issue for our ownemotional and psychological
safety.
And it's it's very, it's it'svery sad actually.
It's sad that drivers are soanxious about us being on the
road.
They don't want to hit us, youknow, they don't want to do
that.
And so there's a fear.
(21:14):
There is a fear that somewherein that anger, and I hear it and
I do have compassion for it.
But I just every time I justwant to say well then tell your
municipality to prioritize bikesso that we don't have to share
the road.
SPEAKER_04 (21:30):
Let's talk about that for a minute.
As you may know, the BC CyclingCoalition is championing safe
routes throughout the province.
And Whistler actually rankspretty high by by the number of
kilometers of so-calledprotected routes for cyclists.
Brendan, you've taken thispretty seriously I know and you
(21:52):
ran for council, almost gotelected on this as part of your
platform.
What has been the reaction fromthe politicians?
Because Whistler, along with somany other municipalities, has
an active transportation planthat purports to be delivering
the very benefits that you'relooking for.
The province has a clean BC planthat's trying to get people
(22:14):
supposedly out of their cars todoing the very things you're
doing, but it doesn't sound likeit's landing very well on the
road.
SPEAKER_03 (22:21):
So discuss the just tell us a little bit about the
political climate, the supportfor what you're doing at the
municipal level well first uhI'm going to question the
methodology of the BC CyclingCoalition to have been able to
give Whistler a good scorebecause multi-use path is not a
protected bike lane.
SPEAKER_04 (22:39):
Well let's be clear and as we're not we're not
advocates of multi-use pathseither but I it's not our
rankings but other people havesaid by some measures of of uh
comfort and convenience and soon you do have Whistler has
Whistler has exactly six feet ofprotected bike lane six total
feet of bike only infrastructureand it's not even open because
(23:04):
they built it and neverconnected it on either end.
SPEAKER_03 (23:07):
There is nowhere in Whistler where bike has priority
zero kilometers.
Any not even one square inch ofWhistler prioritizes cycling
because it's all valley trailwhich we is our multi-use path
network here and it says veryclearly that pedestrians have
(23:27):
right of way dogs have right ofway the speed limit is 15
kilometers an hour and that isthe core of our cycling
infrastructure in Whistler infact that's the entirety of the
cycling infrastructure inWhistler and so uh as Amanda's
already talked about you'reforced into conflict with people
who don't want you there.
And car drivers who are takingtheir dogs for walks on the
(23:51):
trail really do not want you andyour family and your trailer and
your kids going 30 kilometerstrying to get where you want to
go.
SPEAKER_04 (23:58):
Okay but let's get back to the politics you Amanda
mentioned you you you talked tothe Muni.
What do they say?
Why did are they actually goingto fix it?
SPEAKER_03 (24:07):
They throw up their hands they say we've got this
amazing valley trail what areyou talking about?
Why aren't you using it?
Why aren't you taking thismeandering trail that takes
twice as many kilometers to getyou where you want to go that's
the they think they've alreadythey've already done it and they
shrug their shoulders becausethey don't bike yeah the
politicians don't bikebureaucrats don't bike but also
(24:34):
um there is biking of a uhdriver's mindset of cyclists who
have people who have cars whothink car first and then there's
people who only have bikes andwhen you only have a bike you
see the world through adifferent lens and I think it's
psychologically impossible forthe people in government in
(24:55):
Whistler to think cyclist first.
Now they've had since 2012 theevery transportation plan that's
ever been released says we willprioritize biking and walking
yet there is not even one inchof cycle only trail in Whistler.
SPEAKER_01 (25:11):
And it's our number one climate action that they
were we're trying to take in ourbig six climate actions is to
encourage people to take to bikeand walk which is so funny it's
like their number one priorityand they're they themselves the
politicians except for Kathydon't bike and I saw then I've
called them out via letters tothe peak newspaper or local
(25:36):
saying have you tried it haveyou actually done it because
once you do it and you try toget to the library to the school
right to to the grocery storethe three most important things
you don't have safe biking.
It is not safe and I need to Ineed to take my kids to the
library and I need to take mykids to the mountain and so and
(25:59):
so every day we are negotiatingour own safety every day.
SPEAKER_03 (26:03):
And and to do it you almost have to put your elbows
out and take up space on theroad so you're not pushed off
the road and by doing so it isperceived by the drivers that we
are creating the conflict whenactually we just want to be
safe.
SPEAKER_04 (26:20):
Well I should say that uh the BC Cycle coalition
and numerous other cyclingadvocates have been championing
a safe passing distance where acar passing a bike would have to
keep at least one meter, 1.5meters away I'm not sure that's
going to have a lot of impact inyour situation.
But uh I wanted to just umchange subject slightly we
(26:40):
talked about your you're onlywith e-bikes first of all does
it have to be an e-bike do yousee people who don't have
e-bikes but just have regularbikes it absolutely must be an
e-bike 125% you have hills youhave weight you can't take two
kids and then the other thing wehaven't even talked about here
so far is that you have to havea trailer.
SPEAKER_03 (27:01):
Yeah the trailer is the trunk of the car that you're
towing behind your bike that'show you carry your groceries
that's how you carry your skisthat's how you carry your picnic
stuff your festival chairs yourblankets your coolers uh all of
those things so uh you have tohave that and you can't possibly
tow that up a hill pedalingbecause you'll get you'll start
sweating in 10 pedals.
SPEAKER_04 (27:22):
Okay so you've got the e-bikes but and you've
mentioned that sometimes you'llbe going to Vancouver so you put
the e-bikes in the in the busbecause you can't drive to
Vancouver in your car uh whatare other some some other
workarounds you must take taxisat some point you must rent cars
and so on and if you could justtalk about that and also the the
savings you're yeah like haveyou worked out the dollar
(27:43):
savings of doing this versusowning a car either one of you
can yeah the uh when uh theaverage car owner in Canada
spends eleven thousand dollars ayear on their car and let's say
you're being cheap and you havea beater and you don't have to
repair it much you're probablypaying half that much you know
(28:06):
um so if you consider yourbudget of even if it's$500 per
month well it costs nine centsto fill a bike battery from zero
to full um so basically the costof the energy is negligible uh
(28:27):
which means that there are timeswhere you will take a taxi but
you don't flinch at it becauseyou've saved all this money of
course splash on a taxi treatyourself you're going out for a
nice dinner you dress nice takea taxi of course take a taxi if
we want to go to uh visit ourrelatives somewhere else in
(28:47):
British Columbia we rent a carbut you have budget to do that
you don't flinch and did youknow renting a car for an entire
month is only$1400 for a brandnew car it's not even that
expensive it's barely much morethan owning a car yourself.
SPEAKER_03 (29:03):
So we do spend money on those things.
And when we go to Vancouver wetake the bus and what we've
learned is gosh is it morerelaxing taking the bus.
You don't worry about trafficyou get to go through HOV lanes
and then we get there we takeour bikes out of the bottom and
we can zip around Vancouverfaster than you could in a car.
And it's fun.
SPEAKER_04 (29:22):
Yeah how much fun is it?
Because we always say thatcycling is more fun but then
those people if you're sittingin your the comfort of your car
and you're looking at somebodyin the rain and the snow and the
you can't you wonder that's notpossibly fun.
Is it fun?
SPEAKER_03 (29:37):
Hell yeah it's fun even in the rain and snow it's
fun because when you're in theelements and you're out there
like actually feeling the worldon your skin it feels good.
SPEAKER_01 (29:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:49):
And there's no doubt that our kids arrive at school
our teachers have told us thisthat the kids arrive at school
more invigorated first of allthey're always properly dressed
for school because they had toto get to school so playtime and
stuff they have the right gearinstead of being thrown into a
warm car.
And we you know we chit chat andwe sing and we do all kinds of
(30:11):
stuff while we're biking in theelements and like our kids don't
care if it's minus 20 andsnowing because they don't they
never mention it.
Is it is it a like torrentialrainstorm?
They don't care because they'vegot the right gear.
SPEAKER_01 (30:26):
It's fun we're just getting over that's how we get
around is it always fun for youAmanda is it always fun it's
both it's both challenging andso in that way it is fun.
And uh you know I'm gonna behonest some days it's very
uncomfortable you know and sowe've we're always adapting and
(30:48):
trying to make it morecomfortable more safe and so
this is a a constant adaptationand yeah I've you know the more
comfortable you are uh the morethe more you enjoy it so dress
warm uh and on rainy days uhdress properly right so that you
arrive in your place and you'reyou just take off all your stuff
(31:11):
you don't you know and thenyou're you're basically in your
clothes.
So the nice thing about e-bikingis that you'll minorly sweat.
So those uh end-of-usefacilities that everyone is
promoting, sure that's good.
It's better just to have aproper hanger for people and
boots so that people canbasically almost dry their stuff
(31:34):
versus having a whole you don'tneed a whole shower and stuff,
right?
That would be involved if youwere just cycling to work.
So I like that.
SPEAKER_03 (31:42):
I like that you don't arrive all sweaty um but
you've still been outsideenjoying the elements and
getting to your place quickerthan a vehicle so we're gonna
wrap up and I'd just like to askboth of you to talk to other
people in the province insmaller towns situations like
(32:02):
yours maybe without a multi-usepath um what's your what's your
sort of general advice uhoverall uh suggestions to them
to make this possible in theirlives Brendan you gotta start
doing it that's the biggestthing because the critical mass
(32:26):
the more people that do it themore people will see that they
do it the more people doing itthe safer it gets so if you have
an e-bike you have the traileryou've got all the right gear
gear you've got you know notjust one set but probably a
second set as well so that ifyou come home soaking wet but
you need to go out again in anhour or two your stuff isn't dry
(32:46):
you've got a second set it onlytakes 45 seconds to take all of
your wet stuff off and be inyour home or office close right
but you've got to start doing itand then um as a part of that
you're going to be seen doing itand that will inspire others
because we have had otherparents in Whistler come to us
(33:08):
and say we've seen you do itevery day all winter so we know
it's possible like what do wegot to do and we are constantly
coaching other people in what todo but we accept coaching as
well we bumped into a woman lastwinter she had studded tires on
the bike we model we have withthese obscure tire size so we
had to ask her hey how do you dothis what we're you know what
(33:30):
size oh this version of the bikeyou have to take the fender off
if you want studded tires thisthe version you have you don't
need to and it's those types ofthings and then when you're
doing it you're given thumbs upsyou know you're you're cheering
people on you're given thosesmiles but we're all smiling at
each other when we do it thereare smiles shared and that's the
(33:52):
part of what makes it fun.
SPEAKER_04 (33:56):
Amanda, anything to add to that?
SPEAKER_01 (33:58):
Yeah I just want to add to the real commitment uh
all we're asking is that youcommit to doing short-term trips
so that's going to the grocerystore just commit to biking to
the grocery store if you canmake that one change I know
everyone says I have to I haveto drive my car to work
everybody says it so okay youknow but just bike to the
(34:22):
grocery store just bike yourkids to school that those two
things if you can commit to thatright and I know a lot of
parents drop their kids offbefore they you know drive to
work but really ask yourself doI need to drive do I absolutely
need to drive and define foryourself like what's what's the
(34:42):
distance right do I need to do Ineed to drive right now and if
you can walk or bike walk andbike that's a great note to end
on Amanda Ladner mydaughter-in-law Brendan my son
uh thank you so much for uhsharing your insights and uh I'm
sure you're somehow available uhwe can certainly make your
(35:05):
contacts available through theBC Cycling Coalition if anybody
wants to talk to you and uh wewant to uh encourage anybody
listening to join the BC CyclingCoalition so we can keep doing
podcasts like this and help uhadvance more quickly a safe
cycling future for BC thanks forlistening to Bic6 and supporting
(35:29):
safe cycling in BC pleasesubscribe so you don't miss an
episode BC Cycling Coalitionrelies on your support please
consider becoming a member andadding your voice to the call
for safer and more accessiblecycling in BC special thanks to
(35:51):
our sponsors BC Hydro RichardFuel ICBC Moto and the bicycle
visit us at BCcycling.ca
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