January 27, 2025 • 21 mins
Active transportation in Indigenous communities isn't just a matter of movement — it's also about culture, identity, and safety. Aaron Pete, Chawathil First Nation Councillor (and Podcaster!), shares how the Chawathil are forging partnerships to support the Coast to Canyon Trail near Hope, BC, identifying the changes necessary for safe travel within the region, and integrating traditional values into modern transportation plans.
Check out Aaron's podcast, Bigger Than Me, where he chats with leaders and change makers from across the political/cultural spectrum.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Bike Sense , the BC Cycling Coalition's
podcast, where we talk about allthings related to active
transportation advocacy in BC.
I'm your host, Peter Ladner,Chair of the Board of the BC
Cycling Coalition.
I hope you enjoy the show.
At the Active TransportationSummit in June 2024, Aaron Peet
(00:43):
was a presenter and gave us aninsight into issues facing
Indigenous communities that arequite different from the rest of
BC, and we've invited him ontothe podcast today to talk about
how active transportation plansare affecting his own community
and how he foresees the futurefor active transportation in
Indigenous communities.
Welcome, Aaron Peet.
Thank you so much for having me.
(01:04):
Now I'm going to do something.
You have a podcast You've done180 podcasts and I'm in the
hands of a master here and Inotice you always ask people to
introduce themselves, so I'mgoing to ask you to introduce
yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
My name is Aaron Peet .
I am a counsellor withChihuahua First Nation, I host
the Bigger Than Me podcast and Iwork as the strategic relations
manager for Métis Nation BC.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
And you have a law degree, by the way, I do.
Yes, could you tell us howtransportation has changed in
your community over the past 200years?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
That's a very interesting question.
So I've actually been doing alot of work learning about a lot
of this history.
So, historically, pre-contact,we actually had a location
called T'Kols and it is wherethe District of Hope's main area
is today, and that was ourvillage site and we actually
have photos from that period.
Um, throughout contact, we wereactually displaced and moved
(02:10):
over from where to calls wasover to what we call chihuahua
ir4 indian reserve 4 and thatmoved us farther away from our
usual fishing sites, villagesites, and the consequence of
that shortly thereafter was thathighways were then also put in
that further displaced us anddisconnected us from our ability
to move back and forth fromcommunity to community safely.
And I would say that's where weare today is we are farther
(02:36):
away from the District of Hope.
We're about a 10, 15 minutedrive from the District of Hope
and a significant like an hourwalk along two different
highways in order to get intotown.
There are very narrow pointswhere there are bridges, and
these are some of theconstraints our community is
facing now.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
And people in your community where you are a
councillor.
They have to go to Hope quiteregularly, I assume, for
groceries and so on.
There are a few amenities inyour community, Is that right?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Correct.
We don't have grocery stores,so everything that you have to
go pick up, taking your kids toschool, all of those are
commutes outside of thecommunity.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
And I noticed that the plan that you've done you
recorded that 100% of your tripsright now are made by car and
yet you've got ambitions for anactive transportation plan.
Can you describe how you'regoing to get from where you are
now to a more active form oftransportation and why that's
(03:36):
even important or necessary?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
So we actually started off engaging the
community on this front, and Iguess I'll just backtrack a
little bit.
My understanding of activetransportation was actually
introduced when I was a nativecourt worker, assisting
Indigenous people through thelegal system, and a predominant
amount of the files that I wasdealing with were driving while
prohibited, driving without alicense and other motor vehicle
(04:03):
infractions for driving withouta proper insurance or license,
and so that's predominant across, from my understanding at least
, the Fraser Valley.
And so, coming into this role,I knew as a council member that
this was a pain point, and so westarted and applied for $50,000
from the federal government foran active transportation plan.
(04:25):
We did that back November 2022.
Throughout 2023 and consultedthe community.
We did open houses, communitysurveys, focus groups and really
got to know what the communitywas looking for.
And this was a pain point forthem as well.
Within the Fraser Valley, wehave lost members as a
(04:46):
consequence of them having tocommute on the highway by
walking, being hit by semis.
Those types of issues havearisen.
So this is a well-known issuewithin Indigenous communities,
and so we started communicating.
We started putting up maps onsome of our ideas.
We actually met with ourfloodplain mappers and team
(05:07):
there to start to understandwhere they think some good
trails could be, where we'reputting in dikes and stuff to
further encourage that.
And then we started reachingout to organizations like the
Fraser Valley Regional Districtand other stakeholders like
Tourism BC to understand wheretheir goals for regional active
transportation were, and one ofthose was the Costa Canyon Trail
(05:29):
.
And throughout this processwe've been able to engage
organizations like Enbridge, cpRail, other funders like
TransCanada Trails to start toget funding, to start to look at
design.
So we are in the design phase.
We've finished our activetransportation plan.
Now we're designing andimplementing.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Tell us for a minute about the Coast to Canyon Trail.
You said that the design hasbeen done.
How much of that has been builtand what would that look like
when it's built out?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
So the Coast to Canyon Trail starts, from my
understanding, somewhere inVancouver or New Westminster,
and the dream has always beenfor trails to be able to go from
there all the way to the canyon, which is Hope, and a lot of
that has, from my perspective,been completed.
Obviously, a lot of that fallsoutside of Chihuahua's
jurisdiction, but we werelooking at what can we implement
(06:23):
within our region to supportthis trail.
So we have about four to sixkilometers of that trail that we
can start to implement and wehave actually the space.
We've spoken to CP Rail, we'vespoken to the Ministry of
Transportation of our goals tobegin to implement this.
That way, if somebody does needto walk, bike run or cycle to
(06:44):
town, they would have a safe wayto do so where they're not on
the road.
So we're working with TransCanada Trails.
They've funded some grants todo some of the design work and
starting to figure out exactlywhere that would go.
There are some very narrowpoints where we do need some
further design to figure out howwe support people where the
highway really constricts andthere's not a lot of space on
(07:05):
either side, in order to reachsome of these goals, to make
sure that it's feasible all theway through.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
And how far are you in your estimation, in the
completion of your portion ofthis project like that would
enable your community to meetits transportation needs without
having to drive?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
We are, I would say, probably maybe five to ten years
away from actually having thatsection completed.
We are in the planning.
We just finished the planningstage.
Now we're trying to figure outwhere those pain points are,
designing that and then the costto actually implement that.
We're starting to speak withfunders to see who has the
dollars for implementation,because six kilometers of
(07:43):
developed trail, whether we lookat paved or gravel, that's all
going to be a significant cost.
And so now we're reaching outto stakeholders to kind of
engage who's willing toparticipate.
How do we make sure werecognize them in their support?
Is there ways to put up signsthat say supported by Enbridge,
supported by CP Rail, supportedby the Ministry of
(08:04):
Transportation, in order to kindof get their buy-in as well?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
As an Indigenous community, do you have access to
other funds that are speciallyallocated to Indigenous causes
and projects like this?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I don't think we have access to special funds, but I
would say that we have specialconsiderations that we're
starting to receive and fundersare able to kind of look at our
application somewhat differentlybecause the challenges that we
have are so much different thanchallenges faced by individuals
living in a municipality.
Municipalities have a tax baseto pull from, and First Nation
(08:44):
communities we don't have thatsame tax base, and so we do rely
more heavily on grants andtheir ability to understand that
we're in unique circumstances.
We're not just wanting trailsbecause they're nice to bike on
or because we enjoy theexperience, or we're doing it
because we actually need safetransportation for people who
might not have licenses in orderto get to and from community.
(09:06):
How much support is there forthis in your community?
I would say very high support.
We continue.
We just did an infrastructuresurvey with the community and we
again pulled very strongly insupport of active transportation
.
Particularly the Costa CanyonTrail, I think is more
interesting perhaps to yourviewers.
(09:26):
But within our community thereneeds to be more connections for
people to get from their houseto the band office without
having to drive, and so we'vedeveloped.
The Enbridge line actually runsthrough our community and
there's huge interest from thecommunity to have that, because
then they wouldn't have to drivefour minutes from their place
to the band office, they'd havea safe place to walk and it
(09:47):
would be private trails for themto enjoy.
And we haven't really had that.
It's always been kind ofwalking through the grass, and
so the idea of having beautifulscenery throughout the forest
that's only member accessible issomething I think that really
excites them, because it's theirability to reconnect with the
land in a more private way thanthe Costa Canyon Trail would
(10:08):
look.
So there's huge support forthat Enbridge Line Trail.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Can you describe what the impact of that Enbridge
Line is?
Is this like a hydro right away, where everything's cleared out
and now you're left with anopen path that can be replanted
in different ways?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yes, so they have one of their pipelines that comes
through our community and it isfairly wide I'd say it's
probably 30 meters wide andthere's special spots where we
would be able to develop thesetrails that wouldn't impact the
actual pipeline, is verysupportive of that.
(10:49):
But it runs through the wholeof our reserve and so, um,
tourists wouldn't be able toaccess it, but it would be a way
for communities to go for nicelong walks throughout their
community.
Um, we have lots of wildlifethat they'd be able to enjoy and
that would be just for theirbenefit to connect the
communities more so becauseright now and this is true for
many first nation communitiesthere's a house and then like
five blocks and then anotherhouse, and so the connection
(11:11):
between homes has always been achallenge, and this will kind of
integrate the community andmake it more accessible for
people to connect.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Now you said that your community, the Chihuahua
community, is separate from theSCAM community, which is just
slightly north of Hope, isseparate from the SCAM community
, which is just slightly northof Hope.
What's the distance betweenthose communities and do you
have families that are spreadout between those two
communities?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yes, it's around a 50-50 split.
Scam is mainly higher ground,so we don't have to worry about
the floodplain.
Chihuahua IR4 is within thefloodplain, so that's one of the
challenges that we have withour Chihuahua IR4 is that we
were also displaced to alocation that is.
We're working with NorthwestHydraulics and they've
(11:58):
identified that we're verydeeply within the floodplain and
at very, extremely high risk,and we saw that during the 2021
atmospheric river, and so a lotof our new developments are
looking at SCAM.
The challenge is it is about afive to seven minute drive from
Chihuahua to SCAM.
Again, the highway narrowsthroughout those points and so
people are walking very, veryclose to highway traffic in
(12:20):
order to go from one communityto the other or relying on
somebody to drive them.
But SCAM is another area wherewe're looking at further
development, so we also want tosee further growth in terms of
active transportation.
Our first trail that we builtwas actually up at SCAM, around
the ball field, and we'veactually accomplished that a
couple of months almost a yearback in August, sorry.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
You're also looking for a bridge over the highway, a
grade separated crossing.
How likely is that to happenand is that a that would sound
like a major cost?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
that is likely to happen.
I guess I should reframe thequestion you asked me before.
We do have special funding, inthe sense that we are supported
by Indigenous Services Canadaand they have funds specifically
for Indigenous communities inorder to accomplish
infrastructure goals and makesure that we're served.
Again, since we don't have atax base, we rely on the federal
government support for a lot ofthese initiatives, and so we
(13:19):
are working with them right nowto do a feasibility study on
whether or not we would look ata bridge or a tunnel, on whether
or not we would look at abridge or a tunnel.
There's concerns with both, butwe're not okay with an accurate
crosswalk, which was proposedby the Ministry of
Transportation initially.
We don't feel comfortable withthat.
People from what's called KStreet have to cross the road
(13:40):
over to Scam in order to catchthe bus, and we don't feel
comfortable with our childrenhaving to cross the number one
highway in order to catch thebus in the morning.
We're looking at potentiallyhaving a daycare up at SCAM, and
so people would have to taketheir kids across the road again
in order to access thoseservices, to access the parks
and all of those pieces.
We have a cultural centre up atSCAM, so we need something
(14:02):
that's more safe for people toget across.
So we're speaking withIndigenous Services Canada, the
Ministry of Transportation andwe're working on a feasibility
study right now in order to lookat some of those costs.
What's the most feasible?
There's a lot of hesitationwith a tunnel because a lot of
wildlife would likely go throughthere.
It can become an unsightlypremise and there can be
(14:22):
challenges with people who areunhoused in those areas, and so
those are some of the concerns.
The concerns with the bridgewould be that young people like
to cause shenanigans and there'sa risk that they might utilize
that bridge in order to causesome challenges for oncoming
traffic, and so we'reconsidering all of those things
(14:42):
as we move forward.
I do think that there's a hugemomentum within our council and
leadership and within thecommunity to want to see that
project come to fruition, and soI do think that there's a
strong likelihood that it comesto life.
That's a three to five yearproject in order to get
implemented, but I think as longas we have that community
support, we'll be able to getthat across the finish line.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
It's interesting.
You say that as three to fiveyears and I said earlier that
sounds like a big project, butwhen you compare that to the
highway projects that we do,there's no way a little thing
like that, compared to a bighighway exchange, would take
that long.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
In another First Nation community I can see the
hydro poles that go through theforest up a mountain, and that's
(15:38):
an incredible feat forCanadians, for British
Columbians, that were able to dothose things.
But yes, when an organizationcomes back to me and says that's
really expensive, it's like myargument is that we were
displaced here.
It wasn't our preference to behere.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
We wouldn't have had these issues if we weren't
displaced, and so we do needsome give and take on these
fronts to make sure that it isfeasible for our members to live
here aaron, if you figure outhow to get a the highways, to
put a pedestrian overpass on ahighway, there are communities
(16:13):
all over this province achingfor that solution and realizing
that to truly realize an activetransportation integrated plan,
you have to have ways ofcrossing these highways, and so
I I really hope that works foryou.
I want to ask you somethingabout.
One of the things that you'retrying to do is integrate
culture and tradition into yourplans.
(16:34):
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
So I actually had the opportunity during law school
to study some more of thehistory of how Indigenous people
traveled, and we have thestatistics that people traveled
from Alaska all the history tolearn more about how people
traveled vast distances.
And I think the part that'sreally interesting to me about
(17:07):
us being an oral culture is thatthe stories that you hear about
the mountains served twopurposes from my perspective.
One was they were moral stories, very similar to biblical
stories on how to live a goodlife.
They taught you a lot aboutphilosophy, how to be a good
contributing person in yourcommunity.
(17:27):
But then two, they are also ageographic map.
If you understand the story,you understand where you are
geographically, because theywouldn't have had GPS or
anything like that, so they wereserving dual purposes.
So when you get to learn someof that history about Mount Siam
and stuff, you start to realizethat these are actually
geographic points that you wouldbe able to identify if you're
(17:50):
traveling through from Alaskaall the way down to California
and having those stories youwould tell along your walk to
keep track of where you were andlearn some things along the way
.
The challenge I always remindpeople with written traditions
is that often they getdisconnected or they don't make
as much sense, Like.
People know who Shakespeare was, but how much can they tell you
(18:11):
about what those storiesactually meant or the lessons to
be learned from them?
That's where people start todrop off for written traditions
but oral traditions.
If you don't understandsomething, then it's my job as
the storyteller to shape it in away that does make sense to you
.
So those stories were able tosurvive for so long because
people were really able to takethem in and see themselves
(18:32):
reflected in those stories, andso I like that piece and I think
there's ways to incorporatethat history and that rich
culture into these trails.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Fantastic, so interesting.
Aaron, I know you have a tightdeadline.
We're going to let you go, butI would just like to leave us
with a plug for your podcast.
Tell us it's called Bigger ThanMe and tell us what you do with
that podcast and why ourlisteners might be interested in
it.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
It's called the Bigger Than Me podcast.
I interview people from alldifferent backgrounds.
I had the opportunity tointerview all of the party
leaders for the last BC election.
That was David Eby, kevinFalcon, john Rustad and Sonia
Fersonow and that was a hugeopportunity.
But I go down all differenttypes of paths to learn about
people's journey and why they dowhat they do and why they love
(19:19):
making a difference in theircommunity.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Well, let us know the next time you're going to do
one that's even remotely relatedto transportation.
We'd be happy to help youpromote it.
Thanks so much, Aaron, and goodluck with that project.
Thank you so much, I appreciateit you've been listening to bike
(19:41):
sense, an original podcast fromthe bc cycling coalition.
If you like the podcast, we'dbe grateful if you could leave
us a rating.
On whatever platform you use,you can also subscribe so you
don't miss future episodes.
If you have comments orsuggestions for future episodes,
email me at peterladner atbccyclingca.
(20:05):
No-transcript.
Welcome to Bike Sense , the BC Cycling Coalition's
podcast, where we talk about allthings related to active
transportation advocacy in BC.
I'm your host, Peter Ladner,Chair of the Board of the BC
Cycling Coalition.
I hope you enjoy the show.
At the Active TransportationSummit in June 2024, Aaron Peet
(00:43):
was a presenter and gave us aninsight into issues facing
Indigenous communities that arequite different from the rest of
BC, and we've invited him ontothe podcast today to talk about
how active transportation plansare affecting his own community
and how he foresees the futurefor active transportation in
Indigenous communities.
Welcome, Aaron Peet.
Thank you so much for having me.
(01:04):
Now I'm going to do something.
You have a podcast You've done180 podcasts and I'm in the
hands of a master here and Inotice you always ask people to
introduce themselves, so I'mgoing to ask you to introduce
yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
My name is Aaron Peet .
I am a counsellor withChihuahua First Nation, I host
the Bigger Than Me podcast and Iwork as the strategic relations
manager for Métis Nation BC.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
And you have a law degree, by the way, I do.
Yes, could you tell us howtransportation has changed in
your community over the past 200years?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
That's a very interesting question.
So I've actually been doing alot of work learning about a lot
of this history.
So, historically, pre-contact,we actually had a location
called T'Kols and it is wherethe District of Hope's main area
is today, and that was ourvillage site and we actually
have photos from that period.
Um, throughout contact, we wereactually displaced and moved
(02:10):
over from where to calls wasover to what we call chihuahua
ir4 indian reserve 4 and thatmoved us farther away from our
usual fishing sites, villagesites, and the consequence of
that shortly thereafter was thathighways were then also put in
that further displaced us anddisconnected us from our ability
to move back and forth fromcommunity to community safely.
And I would say that's where weare today is we are farther
(02:36):
away from the District of Hope.
We're about a 10, 15 minutedrive from the District of Hope
and a significant like an hourwalk along two different
highways in order to get intotown.
There are very narrow pointswhere there are bridges, and
these are some of theconstraints our community is
facing now.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
And people in your community where you are a
councillor.
They have to go to Hope quiteregularly, I assume, for
groceries and so on.
There are a few amenities inyour community, Is that right?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Correct.
We don't have grocery stores,so everything that you have to
go pick up, taking your kids toschool, all of those are
commutes outside of thecommunity.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
And I noticed that the plan that you've done you
recorded that 100% of your tripsright now are made by car and
yet you've got ambitions for anactive transportation plan.
Can you describe how you'regoing to get from where you are
now to a more active form oftransportation and why that's
(03:36):
even important or necessary?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
So we actually started off engaging the
community on this front, and Iguess I'll just backtrack a
little bit.
My understanding of activetransportation was actually
introduced when I was a nativecourt worker, assisting
Indigenous people through thelegal system, and a predominant
amount of the files that I wasdealing with were driving while
prohibited, driving without alicense and other motor vehicle
(04:03):
infractions for driving withouta proper insurance or license,
and so that's predominant across, from my understanding at least
, the Fraser Valley.
And so, coming into this role,I knew as a council member that
this was a pain point, and so westarted and applied for $50,000
from the federal government foran active transportation plan.
(04:25):
We did that back November 2022.
Throughout 2023 and consultedthe community.
We did open houses, communitysurveys, focus groups and really
got to know what the communitywas looking for.
And this was a pain point forthem as well.
Within the Fraser Valley, wehave lost members as a
(04:46):
consequence of them having tocommute on the highway by
walking, being hit by semis.
Those types of issues havearisen.
So this is a well-known issuewithin Indigenous communities,
and so we started communicating.
We started putting up maps onsome of our ideas.
We actually met with ourfloodplain mappers and team
(05:07):
there to start to understandwhere they think some good
trails could be, where we'reputting in dikes and stuff to
further encourage that.
And then we started reachingout to organizations like the
Fraser Valley Regional Districtand other stakeholders like
Tourism BC to understand wheretheir goals for regional active
transportation were, and one ofthose was the Costa Canyon Trail
(05:29):
.
And throughout this processwe've been able to engage
organizations like Enbridge, cpRail, other funders like
TransCanada Trails to start toget funding, to start to look at
design.
So we are in the design phase.
We've finished our activetransportation plan.
Now we're designing andimplementing.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Tell us for a minute about the Coast to Canyon Trail.
You said that the design hasbeen done.
How much of that has been builtand what would that look like
when it's built out?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
So the Coast to Canyon Trail starts, from my
understanding, somewhere inVancouver or New Westminster,
and the dream has always beenfor trails to be able to go from
there all the way to the canyon, which is Hope, and a lot of
that has, from my perspective,been completed.
Obviously, a lot of that fallsoutside of Chihuahua's
jurisdiction, but we werelooking at what can we implement
(06:23):
within our region to supportthis trail.
So we have about four to sixkilometers of that trail that we
can start to implement and wehave actually the space.
We've spoken to CP Rail, we'vespoken to the Ministry of
Transportation of our goals tobegin to implement this.
That way, if somebody does needto walk, bike run or cycle to
(06:44):
town, they would have a safe wayto do so where they're not on
the road.
So we're working with TransCanada Trails.
They've funded some grants todo some of the design work and
starting to figure out exactlywhere that would go.
There are some very narrowpoints where we do need some
further design to figure out howwe support people where the
highway really constricts andthere's not a lot of space on
(07:05):
either side, in order to reachsome of these goals, to make
sure that it's feasible all theway through.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
And how far are you in your estimation, in the
completion of your portion ofthis project like that would
enable your community to meetits transportation needs without
having to drive?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
We are, I would say, probably maybe five to ten years
away from actually having thatsection completed.
We are in the planning.
We just finished the planningstage.
Now we're trying to figure outwhere those pain points are,
designing that and then the costto actually implement that.
We're starting to speak withfunders to see who has the
dollars for implementation,because six kilometers of
(07:43):
developed trail, whether we lookat paved or gravel, that's all
going to be a significant cost.
And so now we're reaching outto stakeholders to kind of
engage who's willing toparticipate.
How do we make sure werecognize them in their support?
Is there ways to put up signsthat say supported by Enbridge,
supported by CP Rail, supportedby the Ministry of
(08:04):
Transportation, in order to kindof get their buy-in as well?
Speaker 1 (08:07):
As an Indigenous community, do you have access to
other funds that are speciallyallocated to Indigenous causes
and projects like this?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
I don't think we have access to special funds, but I
would say that we have specialconsiderations that we're
starting to receive and fundersare able to kind of look at our
application somewhat differentlybecause the challenges that we
have are so much different thanchallenges faced by individuals
living in a municipality.
Municipalities have a tax baseto pull from, and First Nation
(08:44):
communities we don't have thatsame tax base, and so we do rely
more heavily on grants andtheir ability to understand that
we're in unique circumstances.
We're not just wanting trailsbecause they're nice to bike on
or because we enjoy theexperience, or we're doing it
because we actually need safetransportation for people who
might not have licenses in orderto get to and from community.
(09:06):
How much support is there forthis in your community?
I would say very high support.
We continue.
We just did an infrastructuresurvey with the community and we
again pulled very strongly insupport of active transportation
.
Particularly the Costa CanyonTrail, I think is more
interesting perhaps to yourviewers.
(09:26):
But within our community thereneeds to be more connections for
people to get from their houseto the band office without
having to drive, and so we'vedeveloped.
The Enbridge line actually runsthrough our community and
there's huge interest from thecommunity to have that, because
then they wouldn't have to drivefour minutes from their place
to the band office, they'd havea safe place to walk and it
(09:47):
would be private trails for themto enjoy.
And we haven't really had that.
It's always been kind ofwalking through the grass, and
so the idea of having beautifulscenery throughout the forest
that's only member accessible issomething I think that really
excites them, because it's theirability to reconnect with the
land in a more private way thanthe Costa Canyon Trail would
(10:08):
look.
So there's huge support forthat Enbridge Line Trail.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Can you describe what the impact of that Enbridge
Line is?
Is this like a hydro right away, where everything's cleared out
and now you're left with anopen path that can be replanted
in different ways?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yes, so they have one of their pipelines that comes
through our community and it isfairly wide I'd say it's
probably 30 meters wide andthere's special spots where we
would be able to develop thesetrails that wouldn't impact the
actual pipeline, is verysupportive of that.
(10:49):
But it runs through the wholeof our reserve and so, um,
tourists wouldn't be able toaccess it, but it would be a way
for communities to go for nicelong walks throughout their
community.
Um, we have lots of wildlifethat they'd be able to enjoy and
that would be just for theirbenefit to connect the
communities more so becauseright now and this is true for
many first nation communitiesthere's a house and then like
five blocks and then anotherhouse, and so the connection
(11:11):
between homes has always been achallenge, and this will kind of
integrate the community andmake it more accessible for
people to connect.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Now you said that your community, the Chihuahua
community, is separate from theSCAM community, which is just
slightly north of Hope, isseparate from the SCAM community
, which is just slightly northof Hope.
What's the distance betweenthose communities and do you
have families that are spreadout between those two
communities?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yes, it's around a 50-50 split.
Scam is mainly higher ground,so we don't have to worry about
the floodplain.
Chihuahua IR4 is within thefloodplain, so that's one of the
challenges that we have withour Chihuahua IR4 is that we
were also displaced to alocation that is.
We're working with NorthwestHydraulics and they've
(11:58):
identified that we're verydeeply within the floodplain and
at very, extremely high risk,and we saw that during the 2021
atmospheric river, and so a lotof our new developments are
looking at SCAM.
The challenge is it is about afive to seven minute drive from
Chihuahua to SCAM.
Again, the highway narrowsthroughout those points and so
people are walking very, veryclose to highway traffic in
(12:20):
order to go from one communityto the other or relying on
somebody to drive them.
But SCAM is another area wherewe're looking at further
development, so we also want tosee further growth in terms of
active transportation.
Our first trail that we builtwas actually up at SCAM, around
the ball field, and we'veactually accomplished that a
couple of months almost a yearback in August, sorry.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
You're also looking for a bridge over the highway, a
grade separated crossing.
How likely is that to happenand is that a that would sound
like a major cost?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
that is likely to happen.
I guess I should reframe thequestion you asked me before.
We do have special funding, inthe sense that we are supported
by Indigenous Services Canadaand they have funds specifically
for Indigenous communities inorder to accomplish
infrastructure goals and makesure that we're served.
Again, since we don't have atax base, we rely on the federal
government support for a lot ofthese initiatives, and so we
(13:19):
are working with them right nowto do a feasibility study on
whether or not we would look ata bridge or a tunnel, on whether
or not we would look at abridge or a tunnel.
There's concerns with both, butwe're not okay with an accurate
crosswalk, which was proposedby the Ministry of
Transportation initially.
We don't feel comfortable withthat.
People from what's called KStreet have to cross the road
(13:40):
over to Scam in order to catchthe bus, and we don't feel
comfortable with our childrenhaving to cross the number one
highway in order to catch thebus in the morning.
We're looking at potentiallyhaving a daycare up at SCAM, and
so people would have to taketheir kids across the road again
in order to access thoseservices, to access the parks
and all of those pieces.
We have a cultural centre up atSCAM, so we need something
(14:02):
that's more safe for people toget across.
So we're speaking withIndigenous Services Canada, the
Ministry of Transportation andwe're working on a feasibility
study right now in order to lookat some of those costs.
What's the most feasible?
There's a lot of hesitationwith a tunnel because a lot of
wildlife would likely go throughthere.
It can become an unsightlypremise and there can be
(14:22):
challenges with people who areunhoused in those areas, and so
those are some of the concerns.
The concerns with the bridgewould be that young people like
to cause shenanigans and there'sa risk that they might utilize
that bridge in order to causesome challenges for oncoming
traffic, and so we'reconsidering all of those things
(14:42):
as we move forward.
I do think that there's a hugemomentum within our council and
leadership and within thecommunity to want to see that
project come to fruition, and soI do think that there's a
strong likelihood that it comesto life.
That's a three to five yearproject in order to get
implemented, but I think as longas we have that community
support, we'll be able to getthat across the finish line.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
It's interesting.
You say that as three to fiveyears and I said earlier that
sounds like a big project, butwhen you compare that to the
highway projects that we do,there's no way a little thing
like that, compared to a bighighway exchange, would take
that long.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
In another First Nation community I can see the
hydro poles that go through theforest up a mountain, and that's
(15:38):
an incredible feat forCanadians, for British
Columbians, that were able to dothose things.
But yes, when an organizationcomes back to me and says that's
really expensive, it's like myargument is that we were
displaced here.
It wasn't our preference to behere.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
We wouldn't have had these issues if we weren't
displaced, and so we do needsome give and take on these
fronts to make sure that it isfeasible for our members to live
here aaron, if you figure outhow to get a the highways, to
put a pedestrian overpass on ahighway, there are communities
(16:13):
all over this province achingfor that solution and realizing
that to truly realize an activetransportation integrated plan,
you have to have ways ofcrossing these highways, and so
I I really hope that works foryou.
I want to ask you somethingabout.
One of the things that you'retrying to do is integrate
culture and tradition into yourplans.
(16:34):
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
So I actually had the opportunity during law school
to study some more of thehistory of how Indigenous people
traveled, and we have thestatistics that people traveled
from Alaska all the history tolearn more about how people
traveled vast distances.
And I think the part that'sreally interesting to me about
(17:07):
us being an oral culture is thatthe stories that you hear about
the mountains served twopurposes from my perspective.
One was they were moral stories, very similar to biblical
stories on how to live a goodlife.
They taught you a lot aboutphilosophy, how to be a good
contributing person in yourcommunity.
(17:27):
But then two, they are also ageographic map.
If you understand the story,you understand where you are
geographically, because theywouldn't have had GPS or
anything like that, so they wereserving dual purposes.
So when you get to learn someof that history about Mount Siam
and stuff, you start to realizethat these are actually
geographic points that you wouldbe able to identify if you're
(17:50):
traveling through from Alaskaall the way down to California
and having those stories youwould tell along your walk to
keep track of where you were andlearn some things along the way
.
The challenge I always remindpeople with written traditions
is that often they getdisconnected or they don't make
as much sense, Like.
People know who Shakespeare was, but how much can they tell you
(18:11):
about what those storiesactually meant or the lessons to
be learned from them?
That's where people start todrop off for written traditions
but oral traditions.
If you don't understandsomething, then it's my job as
the storyteller to shape it in away that does make sense to you
.
So those stories were able tosurvive for so long because
people were really able to takethem in and see themselves
(18:32):
reflected in those stories, andso I like that piece and I think
there's ways to incorporatethat history and that rich
culture into these trails.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Fantastic, so interesting.
Aaron, I know you have a tightdeadline.
We're going to let you go, butI would just like to leave us
with a plug for your podcast.
Tell us it's called Bigger ThanMe and tell us what you do with
that podcast and why ourlisteners might be interested in
it.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
It's called the Bigger Than Me podcast.
I interview people from alldifferent backgrounds.
I had the opportunity tointerview all of the party
leaders for the last BC election.
That was David Eby, kevinFalcon, john Rustad and Sonia
Fersonow and that was a hugeopportunity.
But I go down all differenttypes of paths to learn about
people's journey and why they dowhat they do and why they love
(19:19):
making a difference in theircommunity.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Well, let us know the next time you're going to do
one that's even remotely relatedto transportation.
We'd be happy to help youpromote it.
Thanks so much, Aaron, and goodluck with that project.
Thank you so much, I appreciateit you've been listening to bike
(19:41):
sense, an original podcast fromthe bc cycling coalition.
If you like the podcast, we'dbe grateful if you could leave
us a rating.
On whatever platform you use,you can also subscribe so you
don't miss future episodes.
If you have comments orsuggestions for future episodes,
email me at peterladner atbccyclingca.
(20:05):
No-transcript.
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