July 29, 2024 • 32 mins
An eye-opening conversation with Steve New, board member of Island Pathways and former Chief Operating Officer of BC Transit.
We explore the ambitious vision of completing the 180-kilometre Salish Sea Trail loop on Salt Spring Island's narrow roads, and dive into the role of BC Transit in enabling active transportation across B.C.
Island Pathways: improving transportation on Salt Spring Island https://islandpathways.ca/
B.C. Transit's vision
***********************************************
The Bike Sense podcast with Peter Ladner is produced by the BC Cycling Coalition – your voice for safer and more accessible cycling and active transportation in British Columbia.
Got feedback or ideas for future episodes? Please drop us an email at admin@bccycling.ca.
Membership in the BCCC is now FREE! The future of this podcast depends on people like you becoming members at BCCycling.ca.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Bike Sense , the BC Cycling Coalition's
podcast, where we talk about allthings related to active
transportation advocacy in BC.
I'm your host, peter Ladner,chair of the Board of the BC
Cycling Coalition.
I hope you enjoy the show ofthe board of the BC Cycling
(00:27):
Coalition.
I hope you enjoy the show.
My guest today is Steve New.
He's a resident of Salt SpringIsland and I've invited him to
come on the podcast for tworeasons.
One is Salt Spring Island has avery interesting and
long-standing organization thatis championing a specific route
that would have major cycletourism implications.
And secondly, he's the formerchief operating officer of BC
(00:49):
Transit and I thought he mighthave some things to say about
how bus transit and other formsof transit organized by BC
Transit might have an impact onactive transportation.
So welcome, steve.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Thanks, peter, I'm glad to be here active
transportation.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So welcome Steve.
Thanks Peter, I'm glad to behere.
Tell us what is your role onIsland Pathways?
What is Island Pathways?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
and what are they trying to do?
First, I'm a part-time residentof Salt Spring Island, but I
serve on the board of directorsof Island Pathways, which is an
organization that's been activefor almost 40 years in advocacy,
planning, design andconstruction of walkways on Salt
(01:34):
Spring Island and benches andmapping for walking and cycling
and in the last two or threeyears, has become very active in
developing safe, all ages andabilities cycling infrastructure
on the island and how's thatgoing?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I, I was on salt spring island.
I don't recall seeing bikelanes.
Am I missing something, or werethey somewhere?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
else.
No, you're quite right.
Of the 265 kilometers of roadson salt Spring Island, there's
currently one kilometer ofsegregated cycle path on Upper
Ganges Road, but we were veryambitious and we expect that
(02:18):
there will be at least another19 more kilometers if we're
successful in completing themissing link of the Salish Sea
Trail.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I really like that image and I'm going to get you
to tell us what that is in asecond.
But I just want to recall anincident in Vancouver or a
situation in Vancouver where wehad a stretch of the missing
link in the seawall aroundVancouver along Point Grey Road
and that was a big sellingfeature for taking cars through
traffic off that road.
So the big picture can work inselling an improvement in active
(02:53):
transportation.
So tell us about the bigpicture.
What is the Sailor C Trail?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, the big picture is that it's a trail of some
180 kilometers.
It's a loop that would connectthe Cowichan Valley, the
Victoria area of the CapitalRegional District, as well as
Salt Spring Island, and itconnects existing segregated and
(03:20):
on-road cycle routes in thoseother regions.
And we're hoping that SaltSprings 20 kilometers between
Fulford Harbor to the town ofGanges and then on to Vesuvius
those two endpoints, with ferryterminals, would be a perfect
(03:41):
addition to create arecreational cycling tourism and
a place where activetransportation users, including
walkers and those on bikes, cansafely traverse the island.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Steve, I just want to stop for a moment.
You and I are both cyclists.
You know that cyclists love tonerd out on their routes that
they take, so you haven't toldme enough.
I'm going to go.
Let's say I start in Vesuvius.
Then where do I go?
I take the ferry over to what'sthe place?
Chimenas.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, from Vesuvius you take a ferry to Crofton and
from Crofton you'd cycle on somevery generous road shoulders
through to North Cowichan andDuncan.
And then get onto the CowichanValley Trail which loops out to
the Cowichan Lake, back on thetrail through the provincial
(04:40):
lands back to Duncan provinciallands back to Duncan and then
over towards the Malahat alongthe Cowichan Valley Trail over
the Souk Hills Wilderness Trail,connect to the Galloping Goose
into Victoria and then Victoriaout on the Lockside Trail back
to Swartz Bay and then over toFulford and then into Ganges oh.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
I like that and on to Vesuvius.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
that's where you're staying.
Fantastic, and how long is that?
That is a 180, roughlykilometer trail.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
So that would be a multi-day trip for most people.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yes, it would, and the users could take any part of
it.
What it does on Salt Spring isit eliminates the narrow in some
cases no shoulders in somecases no shoulders in others on
roads that are posted at 80kilometers per hour and make it
(05:39):
very uncomfortable for manyriders, whether they're advanced
or beginners.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Is this route so enticing that people are doing
it anyway now but havingproblems on that particular
stretch?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, that's right, they're doing that.
Now there is an alternate routethat is still quite hilly and
with very few, a little less,traffic, but with no shoulders
as well, and we're hoping thatwith that those wider shoulders,
(06:16):
that not only residents butalso visitors to Salt Spring
Island will find it an even moreattractive place to visit.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So let's cut to the chase.
How much money do you need andwhat are your chances of getting
?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
it.
Well, it's hard to pin an exactfigure on that.
There's some work that IslandPathways had initiated, and then
our partner, the CapitalRegional District, that has
designated this corridor fromFulford Harbour to Vesuvius as a
regional trail.
(06:49):
They've now assumedresponsibility for a contract to
prepare preliminary design anddrawings for this route.
Based on that, we'll be able tomake a more educated guess
about what it'll take tocomplete it.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So does that mean the citizens of Salt Spring are now
relegated to sort of acheerleader role and monitoring
and encouraging and making sureit happens, and not having to
pay for it or do the rest of thework Well?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
there's a lot of cheerleading.
The records show that there'sbeen 50 years of cheerleading,
50 years of asking for widershoulders, and we feel that,
with the quite complex worldarrangement of responsibilities
for various works on Salt Spring, that the regional director, a
(07:46):
small group called the LocalCommunity Commission, will be
able to get on board anddetermine the priorities for
that and then get on with thework.
That's not to say and then geton with the work, that's not to
say that nothing has been done.
For example, just last week,tenders on 1.6 kilometers of one
(08:16):
of the toughest sections ofthis route closed, and that's
what's called the Ganges Hill,the hill just south of Ganges,
and so seeing that workcompleted will give a great, a
big boost to future work.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Well, I think you may have heard that at our recent
Active Transportation Summit inNew Westminster, the Minister
Fleming announced the fundingfor Cycle 16 in Smithers, from
Smithers to Telco.
I believe it was in the orderof $10 million to finish that
off, and so I think you shouldgo to the Ministry of
Transportation and say thatthey've now set a precedent for
(08:55):
per capita spending on activetransportation routes and you're
ready to go, presuming thosedrawings have been done, will
you be relying on the Ministryfor funding?
Funding, or will the regionaldistrict raise taxes, or how
does that work?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, in our case there'll be a partnership
arrangement for funding.
I'm sure I don't know how itwill work out in particular, but
typically there'll be perhapssome federal active
transportation dollars,certainly the ministry, and
there may be some local dollarsas well.
The minister is someone whoknows about Salt Spring event a
(09:38):
little over a year ago and waskind enough to cycle along parts
of this route.
The Minister of Tourism, lanaPopham, was on the island just
three weeks ago that would be inJune.
In June looking at the cyclingtourism potential and we were
(10:06):
able to show her and some of herstaff the potential for cycling
tourism on the island that withsome enhancements in the
infrastructure that we canfurther improve the tourism and
the economy on Salt Spring.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
One of the things that I love about cycle tourism
is that, from a political pointof view, it brings in unlikely
supporters for activetransportation, such as the
chambers of commerce, thetourism hotel and whatever
operators bike rental people,business people and I love that.
It expands the reach of supportthat way and hopefully will
(10:50):
help generate enough politicalsupport to get these projects
through.
So your vision.
I love the Sailor Sea Trail.
I've done sections of that.
I would love to do the wholething sections of that.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I would love to do the whole thing.
Yeah, we were very pleased tohave other speakers on this day
of activities with MinisterPopham, and one person, Colleen
MacDonald, who is the author ofbooks on cycling, talks about
the New Zealand experience,which is very positive and this
is a paraphrase, but millions ininvestment in cycling
infrastructure in New Zealandhave produced billions in
(11:29):
revenue for the economy.
You know, we hope we can do afraction of that here.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
We talk.
We cyclists like to talk thatway, but I think there's some
reality in those numbers, unlike, let's just say, the so-called
billions that come from worldcup games coming to vancouver or
whatever.
So I I think it's great thatthere's evidence from other
regions, and all over theprovince there are these cycle
tourism visions and pieces puttogether, and the more of them
(11:57):
that can be completed todemonstrate what actually
happens and get some data, thebetter.
So I wish you the best of luckwith that, and do you have any
next steps, deadlines, timelines, promises that you're waiting
to see fulfilled?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Well, there's a couple of follow-ups.
One is with the provincialgovernment.
With the active transportationcapital projects that were
announced last week by MinisterFleming, we want to find out
more about how we canparticipate in the development
of future projects.
We're very pleased with theprojects that were announced,
(12:34):
although none for Salt Spring,but with the work that's
underway with the CRD and theconsultants that we and they
have retained for this work.
We think that will be fuel forthose future projects cycle
tourism, not only in southernVancouver Island, gulf Islands,
(12:54):
but also Sea to Sky, theOkanagan and other regions and
we're hopeful that she will be acatalyst for perhaps
inter-ministry work.
Those with money for capitalprojects, combined with the
(13:20):
ministry's enthusiasm forbringing not only BC but
national and internationalvisitors in, will be so
important.
We want to ensure that the touroperators who are operating on
Salt Spring at the moment saythat they can get cycle groups
in at least once.
It's difficult to get them intwice because of the unsafe
(13:45):
nature of our roads.
How?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
about once a day.
Wouldn't that be something youknow?
There was a theme at the ActiveTransportation Summit that was
held in mid-June in NewWestminster that rung true to me
, which was that we have to berealistic about what the
spending is going to be, have tobe to realize the dreams of
these cycling infrastructureprojects around the province and
(14:10):
the reality of achieving theClean BC goals, and it's going
to have to be a vast improvement, a whole order of magnitude.
It needs a whole differentapproach to thinking about the
$5 billion Ministry ofTransportation infrastructure
budget and Mayor Patrick Johnsonfrom New Westminster said let's
just say we take 6% of thatbudget as a target and rally
(14:33):
around that number, which wouldgive projects like yours the
money to proceed seed.
I want to move on to anothertopic and ask you about transit.
So we've talked about cycling.
That's fine, and e-bikes I'msure will help get up that
(14:53):
ganji's hill.
But is there a role for transitin these routes and and along
these to attract tourists andand open up even more options
for these trails so-calledtrails, actually roads?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, yes, there is.
And BC Transit, which wasformerly a VP and chief
operating officer, in theirrecently completed 2024
strategic plan.
What I see although I've notworked with BC Transit in the
last 14 years what I see in thework that they've done is that
(15:28):
it's an organization that isoutward focused.
They're looking at issuesbigger than just maintaining the
bus, keeping it rolling and soon.
Maintaining the bus, keeping itrolling and so on, the typical
traditional internal focusedorganization, and so connecting
to communities, connecting tohousing, connecting to issues
(15:53):
like social isolation.
These are issues that aren'talways absorbed by transit
organization when they'reworking on their strategic plans
.
So, in the big picture, bcTransit, to my view, is taking
that bigger role and adopting it?
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Do they see themselves as being purveyors of
being able to carry bikes andthings like that around?
I know that the buses that goup to Whistler they all now have
these bike trailers on them andsometimes they can put bikes
underneath and they're willingto encourage cyclists to use
that mode of transit as a way tohelp them be more active them
(16:41):
be more active.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Bc Transit, from what I've seen, either in the past
or under the current strategicplan, are definitely looking at
ways to integrate other modes oftransportation, like cycling,
into their world.
So, for instance, it's nowquite common to have bike racks
on buses.
It's quite common to have bikelockers at transit stations.
(17:08):
These are ways and with higherorder transit, like in TransLink
with trains and so on, mightexist between organizations or
geography are lowered as much aspossible so that there's a
(17:45):
seamless trip for those riderswho are going from one place to
another and using other modes oftravel and using other modes of
travel.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Now the Island Pathways begins with a ferry
trip, ends with a ferry trip,one ferry from Swasson to
Fasubias, no Fulford Harbour,and the other one from Fasubias
to Crofton.
Do you at Island Pathways weighin on the issues of bikes on
ferries?
Do you, for example, addressthe lack of signage, the lack of
(18:15):
promotion, the lack ofinstruction when you're getting
on and off the ferry, whatcyclists should be doing, the
lack of bike parking and obviousplaces to put your bike and all
that kind of stuff?
Are you on that too?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Do you see that as part of your island pathways and
Sailor's Sea Trail?
Yes, we do see it as a role.
I don't think we're fullyintegrated.
The cycling arm of islandpathways is relatively new in
the last two to three, fouryears and there's some evidence
that even in some of the workthat's been done by BC Ferries
at the Vesuvius terminal planshasn't fully absorbed all of our
(18:56):
wish lists for easy passageonto and off of the ferries in
that link.
So it's a constant issue thatwe need to work on.
For instance, even at SwartzBay major terminal, the
greetings between ferry usersand transit users is still very
(19:21):
basic and it hasn't changed in along time.
So being able to upgrade theterminal design and some of the
amenities for walk-on passengersto transit, as well as those
with bicycles if they'recarrying them on those racks at
the front of bicycles, I thinkstill needs work, so the job
(19:41):
isn't completely done.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
If I, as a cyclist, approach the ferry terminal of
Vesuvius, is there any signtelling me what to do, where to
go, how to park?
Any of that?
I mean, I'm just talking aboutsignage, which I think would be
a fairly simple and basicstarting point.
But I don't see signageanywhere on any ferry saying
cyclists, go here, do thiswelcome, take this entrance, pay
(20:04):
here no still, you're correctokay, you're correct.
Well, we're trying to get bcferries to come on the podcast
and answer for some of thesesins of emissions but, uh, so
far, uh, no results.
But I'm sure they're thinkingabout this, I know they are.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
They've done some surveys, the president appears
to be very oriented towardsthose linkages and reaching out
to other partners, but I thinkthe work to date is still quite
traditional.
There's limitations of spaceand dollars and so on.
(20:38):
But I think we really need tobe bold in looking at active
transportation and breaking downthe barriers between the modes
of transportation so that thetrip for the customer is
seamless and it's wellunderstood and there's
understanding about who gets onthe ferry first and where you
might wait.
And it's well understood andthere's understanding about who
(20:58):
gets on the ferry first andwhere you might wait when it's
pouring, with rain and andsimilar ways, even just where to
park your bike.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
And I understand they were thinking about having some
hanging racks.
And, uh, our executive directorat the bc cycling coalition,
mike Kosky, actually worked atICBC with Mr Jimenez is his name
, yes, jimenez and helped himbuy a bicycle, actually, and
Mike said, no, don't put ahanging rack on a bike on a
(21:29):
ferry, because we're not goingto be talking about a lot of
e-bikes that are heavy to liftup Some people can't even lift
them up to hang them and bikesloaded with panniers front
panniers particularly that don'tmake sense to put in a hangar.
So those kind of things they'restill working through.
But your example at Salt Springis such a vivid one of the
(21:51):
intermodality Is that the rightword?
The change of modes that isrequired to make these active
transportation dreams come true,particularly these cycling
tourism routes, is one of thehighest performing types of
transit in rural and small townareas.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
It was designed with integration at its heart.
So, for instance, the marketserving the ferry terminals was
(22:28):
an integral part of planningthat service.
Their arrangements were madefor the little minibus.
It only fits 24 people and onaverage it's half transit in the
community.
Integration is the name of thegame.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Perfect.
Well, when I go to communitiesanywhere and I see a bus go by,
I always look to see how manypeople are in the bus.
When it's half full or more, Igo.
Yes, it's being used, they'veobviously they're doing
something useful.
But how many times have I seenwe've all seen in, particularly
in smaller communities these bigempty buses rumbling around
(23:26):
once an hour, maybe one, maybetwo people in them, and I don't
understand why this keepshappening when it obviously
isn't serving a need, whereas ina place like pow River they're
experimenting with somethingcalled a Zunga bus.
I think it is an on-demand busthat will, through software,
create the most efficient routethrough all the demands and be
(23:48):
much more efficient andresponsive to the public.
Do you see that happening at BCTransit?
Happening at?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
BC Transit.
Yeah, I do see it.
There's evidence the fact thatPowell River is doing it, and
Powell River is a member of thatBC Transit group of communities
.
But BC Transit itself isexperimenting with a pilot in a
residential area in Kelowna withon-demand transit, which would
(24:15):
accomplish the same thing.
The difference between thePowell River example that you
gave and the Kelowna pilotthat's being run is that the
pilot is structured in a waythat can be scaled up to other
communities.
So at the core of BC Transit'sexistence is shared services, in
(24:40):
other words, being able todevelop services that can be
extended easily and scaled up toother communities, and the
Kelowna model is based upon thatkind of technology.
That can be then, once pilotedand proven successful, can then
be extended to many communitieswith less effort than
(25:07):
reinventing the wheel each time.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Fantastic.
Well, I look forward to that.
I know it's underway now, Ithink, the Cologne experiment
and it can't happen soon enough,in my opinion, particularly
because we have technology nowthat can coordinate these things
.
In Vancouver, in MetroVancouver, you still have to
phone a day ahead for HandyDart.
It's like imagine phoning a dayahead for your Uber ride.
(25:32):
It's inconceivable.
And the technology is there todo a lot of these things
differently, better than we'vedone in the past.
And obviously an activetransportation future has to
involve transit in many, manyways.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, what I've seen because of my work I was a past
chair of the Canadian UrbanTransit Association and also in
my own consulting practice fornine years worked across Canada
and what I saw in BC was thatbetween with TransLink and BC
(26:09):
Transit, these were both best ofclass organizations.
They were outward looking,they're looking for partnerships
, they're building, looking atinnovation, looking at ways to
reduce their carbon footprint asan organization and so on, and
it was as a former executivewith BC Transit I was quite
(26:32):
proud to see the organization isstill positioned in that way,
In a similar way that BC CyclingCoalition.
Hub Capital Bikes are similarlyso well regarded by other
organizations across the countryin recent conversations with
(26:52):
Cycle Toronto and Velo Quebecthat we're punching above our
weight class.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Well, I'm happy to hear that, although we tend to
look at Velo Quebec and say, wow, we'd love to be doing what
they're doing, but that's a goodthing.
Well, it sounds like we'vesketched out a future here
Better ferries, more accessibleto cyclists and active
transportation, people route,safe routes through salt spring,
starting with smithers and saltspring, and on on around, and
then some of these rail trails,because I know part of that
(27:23):
cowichan valley leg that youmentioned is on a rail bit
former rail bed, and so is thegalloping goose, and, uh,
wonderful future.
We did hear, by the way, at theconference that the Saanich
kind of sets the standard forsuburban municipality using rail
trails to increase their modeshare.
I believe it's up to 8% and itcan be done outside the major
(27:48):
built-up centers.
Anything else you want to add,steve?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, just the direction's very positive.
The pace of development seemsslow at times, perhaps always
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I mean, I like to think that if you see the roads,
as it were, with a whole bunchof e-bike riders, through the
rebates that are going on, andother people like that, the
demand will quickly rise to dealwith safety.
And also when people see therainbow of these cycle tours and
routes, that people, it's easyto get excited about these
(28:26):
routes and if I, you and I canget excited about them, somebody
coming from Germany or Atlantacould easily also get excited
about them and spawn newindustries, new businesses and
new and ultimately, new spendingto make it all happen.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Yeah, I think so, and with integrated mobility, as I
think of it, there's a new wayof thinking that draws social
equity into the planning processand the policies of road
providers, and I think that'salso at the heart of trying to
(29:03):
make a change, with so manyyears of emphasis on
auto-oriented infrastructuredevelopments, that trying to
rebalance the scales to reflectservices for seniors, people
with disabilities, walkers,cyclists and so on scooter users
, mobility device usersReflecting that, you know, in
(29:27):
terms of some hardwired newthinking, is going to be an
important continuing step totake.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
We also heard about at the conference from people
from Indigenous communitieshaving to walk along the highway
and cross the road with nocrosswalk to get to some
semblance of public transit or aplace they can get a ride.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
I think that the main theme of the next provincial
election is going to beaffordability and these
initiatives are absolutelydelivering affordability and
hopefully some of thepoliticians will see that and
make some commitments and we'llget to this next level, because
it's waiting out there for usand it's tantalizing.
Thank you so much, steve, it'sbeen wonderful talking with you,
(30:10):
and all the best to IslandPathways.
Go up to Smithers and find outwhat they did to get all that
whack of funding and bring itback and show Minister Povham
how excited you are to bematched.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
We'll speak with the Smithers people and with the
minister For sure, and sharewhat sounds like your enthusiasm
for that project too.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Okay, steve, thank you very much, and we'll leave
it at that.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Great Thanks, so much , peter.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
You've been listening to Bike Sense, an original
podcast from the BC CyclingCoalition.
If you liked the podcast, we'dbe grateful if you could leave
us a rating.
On whatever platform you use,you can also subscribe so you
don't miss future episodes.
If you have comments orsuggestions for future episodes,
(31:07):
email me at peterladner atbccyclingca.
At bccyclingca, you can help usamplify BC Cycling Coalition's
voice by simply becoming a freemember at bccyclingca.
Welcome to Bike Sense , the BC Cycling Coalition's
podcast, where we talk about allthings related to active
transportation advocacy in BC.
I'm your host, peter Ladner,chair of the Board of the BC
Cycling Coalition.
I hope you enjoy the show ofthe board of the BC Cycling
(00:27):
Coalition.
I hope you enjoy the show.
My guest today is Steve New.
He's a resident of Salt SpringIsland and I've invited him to
come on the podcast for tworeasons.
One is Salt Spring Island has avery interesting and
long-standing organization thatis championing a specific route
that would have major cycletourism implications.
And secondly, he's the formerchief operating officer of BC
(00:49):
Transit and I thought he mighthave some things to say about
how bus transit and other formsof transit organized by BC
Transit might have an impact onactive transportation.
So welcome, steve.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Thanks, peter, I'm glad to be here active
transportation.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So welcome Steve.
Thanks Peter, I'm glad to behere.
Tell us what is your role onIsland Pathways?
What is Island Pathways?
Speaker 2 (01:12):
and what are they trying to do?
First, I'm a part-time residentof Salt Spring Island, but I
serve on the board of directorsof Island Pathways, which is an
organization that's been activefor almost 40 years in advocacy,
planning, design andconstruction of walkways on Salt
(01:34):
Spring Island and benches andmapping for walking and cycling
and in the last two or threeyears, has become very active in
developing safe, all ages andabilities cycling infrastructure
on the island and how's thatgoing?
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I, I was on salt spring island.
I don't recall seeing bikelanes.
Am I missing something, or werethey somewhere?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
else.
No, you're quite right.
Of the 265 kilometers of roadson salt Spring Island, there's
currently one kilometer ofsegregated cycle path on Upper
Ganges Road, but we were veryambitious and we expect that
(02:18):
there will be at least another19 more kilometers if we're
successful in completing themissing link of the Salish Sea
Trail.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I really like that image and I'm going to get you
to tell us what that is in asecond.
But I just want to recall anincident in Vancouver or a
situation in Vancouver where wehad a stretch of the missing
link in the seawall aroundVancouver along Point Grey Road
and that was a big sellingfeature for taking cars through
traffic off that road.
So the big picture can work inselling an improvement in active
(02:53):
transportation.
So tell us about the bigpicture.
What is the Sailor C Trail?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, the big picture is that it's a trail of some
180 kilometers.
It's a loop that would connectthe Cowichan Valley, the
Victoria area of the CapitalRegional District, as well as
Salt Spring Island, and itconnects existing segregated and
(03:20):
on-road cycle routes in thoseother regions.
And we're hoping that SaltSprings 20 kilometers between
Fulford Harbor to the town ofGanges and then on to Vesuvius
those two endpoints, with ferryterminals, would be a perfect
(03:41):
addition to create arecreational cycling tourism and
a place where activetransportation users, including
walkers and those on bikes, cansafely traverse the island.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Steve, I just want to stop for a moment.
You and I are both cyclists.
You know that cyclists love tonerd out on their routes that
they take, so you haven't toldme enough.
I'm going to go.
Let's say I start in Vesuvius.
Then where do I go?
I take the ferry over to what'sthe place?
Chimenas.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah, from Vesuvius you take a ferry to Crofton and
from Crofton you'd cycle on somevery generous road shoulders
through to North Cowichan andDuncan.
And then get onto the CowichanValley Trail which loops out to
the Cowichan Lake, back on thetrail through the provincial
(04:40):
lands back to Duncan provinciallands back to Duncan and then
over towards the Malahat alongthe Cowichan Valley Trail over
the Souk Hills Wilderness Trail,connect to the Galloping Goose
into Victoria and then Victoriaout on the Lockside Trail back
to Swartz Bay and then over toFulford and then into Ganges oh.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
I like that and on to Vesuvius.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
that's where you're staying.
Fantastic, and how long is that?
That is a 180, roughlykilometer trail.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
So that would be a multi-day trip for most people.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yes, it would, and the users could take any part of
it.
What it does on Salt Spring isit eliminates the narrow in some
cases no shoulders in somecases no shoulders in others on
roads that are posted at 80kilometers per hour and make it
(05:39):
very uncomfortable for manyriders, whether they're advanced
or beginners.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Is this route so enticing that people are doing
it anyway now but havingproblems on that particular
stretch?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, that's right, they're doing that.
Now there is an alternate routethat is still quite hilly and
with very few, a little less,traffic, but with no shoulders
as well, and we're hoping thatwith that those wider shoulders,
(06:16):
that not only residents butalso visitors to Salt Spring
Island will find it an even moreattractive place to visit.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
So let's cut to the chase.
How much money do you need andwhat are your chances of getting
?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
it.
Well, it's hard to pin an exactfigure on that.
There's some work that IslandPathways had initiated, and then
our partner, the CapitalRegional District, that has
designated this corridor fromFulford Harbour to Vesuvius as a
regional trail.
(06:49):
They've now assumedresponsibility for a contract to
prepare preliminary design anddrawings for this route.
Based on that, we'll be able tomake a more educated guess
about what it'll take tocomplete it.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
So does that mean the citizens of Salt Spring are now
relegated to sort of acheerleader role and monitoring
and encouraging and making sureit happens, and not having to
pay for it or do the rest of thework Well?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
there's a lot of cheerleading.
The records show that there'sbeen 50 years of cheerleading,
50 years of asking for widershoulders, and we feel that,
with the quite complex worldarrangement of responsibilities
for various works on Salt Spring, that the regional director, a
(07:46):
small group called the LocalCommunity Commission, will be
able to get on board anddetermine the priorities for
that and then get on with thework.
That's not to say and then geton with the work, that's not to
say that nothing has been done.
For example, just last week,tenders on 1.6 kilometers of one
(08:16):
of the toughest sections ofthis route closed, and that's
what's called the Ganges Hill,the hill just south of Ganges,
and so seeing that workcompleted will give a great, a
big boost to future work.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Well, I think you may have heard that at our recent
Active Transportation Summit inNew Westminster, the Minister
Fleming announced the fundingfor Cycle 16 in Smithers, from
Smithers to Telco.
I believe it was in the orderof $10 million to finish that
off, and so I think you shouldgo to the Ministry of
Transportation and say thatthey've now set a precedent for
(08:55):
per capita spending on activetransportation routes and you're
ready to go, presuming thosedrawings have been done, will
you be relying on the Ministryfor funding?
Funding, or will the regionaldistrict raise taxes, or how
does that work?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, in our case there'll be a partnership
arrangement for funding.
I'm sure I don't know how itwill work out in particular, but
typically there'll be perhapssome federal active
transportation dollars,certainly the ministry, and
there may be some local dollarsas well.
The minister is someone whoknows about Salt Spring event a
(09:38):
little over a year ago and waskind enough to cycle along parts
of this route.
The Minister of Tourism, lanaPopham, was on the island just
three weeks ago that would be inJune.
In June looking at the cyclingtourism potential and we were
(10:06):
able to show her and some of herstaff the potential for cycling
tourism on the island that withsome enhancements in the
infrastructure that we canfurther improve the tourism and
the economy on Salt Spring.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
One of the things that I love about cycle tourism
is that, from a political pointof view, it brings in unlikely
supporters for activetransportation, such as the
chambers of commerce, thetourism hotel and whatever
operators bike rental people,business people and I love that.
It expands the reach of supportthat way and hopefully will
(10:50):
help generate enough politicalsupport to get these projects
through.
So your vision.
I love the Sailor Sea Trail.
I've done sections of that.
I would love to do the wholething sections of that.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I would love to do the whole thing.
Yeah, we were very pleased tohave other speakers on this day
of activities with MinisterPopham, and one person, Colleen
MacDonald, who is the author ofbooks on cycling, talks about
the New Zealand experience,which is very positive and this
is a paraphrase, but millions ininvestment in cycling
infrastructure in New Zealandhave produced billions in
(11:29):
revenue for the economy.
You know, we hope we can do afraction of that here.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
We talk.
We cyclists like to talk thatway, but I think there's some
reality in those numbers, unlike, let's just say, the so-called
billions that come from worldcup games coming to vancouver or
whatever.
So I I think it's great thatthere's evidence from other
regions, and all over theprovince there are these cycle
tourism visions and pieces puttogether, and the more of them
(11:57):
that can be completed todemonstrate what actually
happens and get some data, thebetter.
So I wish you the best of luckwith that, and do you have any
next steps, deadlines, timelines, promises that you're waiting
to see fulfilled?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Well, there's a couple of follow-ups.
One is with the provincialgovernment.
With the active transportationcapital projects that were
announced last week by MinisterFleming, we want to find out
more about how we canparticipate in the development
of future projects.
We're very pleased with theprojects that were announced,
(12:34):
although none for Salt Spring,but with the work that's
underway with the CRD and theconsultants that we and they
have retained for this work.
We think that will be fuel forthose future projects cycle
tourism, not only in southernVancouver Island, gulf Islands,
(12:54):
but also Sea to Sky, theOkanagan and other regions and
we're hopeful that she will be acatalyst for perhaps
inter-ministry work.
Those with money for capitalprojects, combined with the
(13:20):
ministry's enthusiasm forbringing not only BC but
national and internationalvisitors in, will be so
important.
We want to ensure that the touroperators who are operating on
Salt Spring at the moment saythat they can get cycle groups
in at least once.
It's difficult to get them intwice because of the unsafe
(13:45):
nature of our roads.
How?
Speaker 1 (13:47):
about once a day.
Wouldn't that be something youknow?
There was a theme at the ActiveTransportation Summit that was
held in mid-June in NewWestminster that rung true to me
, which was that we have to berealistic about what the
spending is going to be, have tobe to realize the dreams of
these cycling infrastructureprojects around the province and
(14:10):
the reality of achieving theClean BC goals, and it's going
to have to be a vast improvement, a whole order of magnitude.
It needs a whole differentapproach to thinking about the
$5 billion Ministry ofTransportation infrastructure
budget and Mayor Patrick Johnsonfrom New Westminster said let's
just say we take 6% of thatbudget as a target and rally
(14:33):
around that number, which wouldgive projects like yours the
money to proceed seed.
I want to move on to anothertopic and ask you about transit.
So we've talked about cycling.
That's fine, and e-bikes I'msure will help get up that
(14:53):
ganji's hill.
But is there a role for transitin these routes and and along
these to attract tourists andand open up even more options
for these trails so-calledtrails, actually roads?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Yeah, yes, there is.
And BC Transit, which wasformerly a VP and chief
operating officer, in theirrecently completed 2024
strategic plan.
What I see although I've notworked with BC Transit in the
last 14 years what I see in thework that they've done is that
(15:28):
it's an organization that isoutward focused.
They're looking at issuesbigger than just maintaining the
bus, keeping it rolling and soon.
Maintaining the bus, keeping itrolling and so on, the typical
traditional internal focusedorganization, and so connecting
to communities, connecting tohousing, connecting to issues
(15:53):
like social isolation.
These are issues that aren'talways absorbed by transit
organization when they'reworking on their strategic plans
.
So, in the big picture, bcTransit, to my view, is taking
that bigger role and adopting it?
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Do they see themselves as being purveyors of
being able to carry bikes andthings like that around?
I know that the buses that goup to Whistler they all now have
these bike trailers on them andsometimes they can put bikes
underneath and they're willingto encourage cyclists to use
that mode of transit as a way tohelp them be more active them
(16:41):
be more active.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Bc Transit, from what I've seen, either in the past
or under the current strategicplan, are definitely looking at
ways to integrate other modes oftransportation, like cycling,
into their world.
So, for instance, it's nowquite common to have bike racks
on buses.
It's quite common to have bikelockers at transit stations.
(17:08):
These are ways and with higherorder transit, like in TransLink
with trains and so on, mightexist between organizations or
geography are lowered as much aspossible so that there's a
(17:45):
seamless trip for those riderswho are going from one place to
another and using other modes oftravel and using other modes of
travel.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Now the Island Pathways begins with a ferry
trip, ends with a ferry trip,one ferry from Swasson to
Fasubias, no Fulford Harbour,and the other one from Fasubias
to Crofton.
Do you at Island Pathways weighin on the issues of bikes on
ferries?
Do you, for example, addressthe lack of signage, the lack of
(18:15):
promotion, the lack ofinstruction when you're getting
on and off the ferry, whatcyclists should be doing, the
lack of bike parking and obviousplaces to put your bike and all
that kind of stuff?
Are you on that too?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Do you see that as part of your island pathways and
Sailor's Sea Trail?
Yes, we do see it as a role.
I don't think we're fullyintegrated.
The cycling arm of islandpathways is relatively new in
the last two to three, fouryears and there's some evidence
that even in some of the workthat's been done by BC Ferries
at the Vesuvius terminal planshasn't fully absorbed all of our
(18:56):
wish lists for easy passageonto and off of the ferries in
that link.
So it's a constant issue thatwe need to work on.
For instance, even at SwartzBay major terminal, the
greetings between ferry usersand transit users is still very
(19:21):
basic and it hasn't changed in along time.
So being able to upgrade theterminal design and some of the
amenities for walk-on passengersto transit, as well as those
with bicycles if they'recarrying them on those racks at
the front of bicycles, I thinkstill needs work, so the job
(19:41):
isn't completely done.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
If I, as a cyclist, approach the ferry terminal of
Vesuvius, is there any signtelling me what to do, where to
go, how to park?
Any of that?
I mean, I'm just talking aboutsignage, which I think would be
a fairly simple and basicstarting point.
But I don't see signageanywhere on any ferry saying
cyclists, go here, do thiswelcome, take this entrance, pay
(20:04):
here no still, you're correctokay, you're correct.
Well, we're trying to get bcferries to come on the podcast
and answer for some of thesesins of emissions but, uh, so
far, uh, no results.
But I'm sure they're thinkingabout this, I know they are.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
They've done some surveys, the president appears
to be very oriented towardsthose linkages and reaching out
to other partners, but I thinkthe work to date is still quite
traditional.
There's limitations of spaceand dollars and so on.
(20:38):
But I think we really need tobe bold in looking at active
transportation and breaking downthe barriers between the modes
of transportation so that thetrip for the customer is
seamless and it's wellunderstood and there's
understanding about who gets onthe ferry first and where you
might wait.
And it's well understood andthere's understanding about who
(20:58):
gets on the ferry first andwhere you might wait when it's
pouring, with rain and andsimilar ways, even just where to
park your bike.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
And I understand they were thinking about having some
hanging racks.
And, uh, our executive directorat the bc cycling coalition,
mike Kosky, actually worked atICBC with Mr Jimenez is his name
, yes, jimenez and helped himbuy a bicycle, actually, and
Mike said, no, don't put ahanging rack on a bike on a
(21:29):
ferry, because we're not goingto be talking about a lot of
e-bikes that are heavy to liftup Some people can't even lift
them up to hang them and bikesloaded with panniers front
panniers particularly that don'tmake sense to put in a hangar.
So those kind of things they'restill working through.
But your example at Salt Springis such a vivid one of the
(21:51):
intermodality Is that the rightword?
The change of modes that isrequired to make these active
transportation dreams come true,particularly these cycling
tourism routes, is one of thehighest performing types of
transit in rural and small townareas.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
It was designed with integration at its heart.
So, for instance, the marketserving the ferry terminals was
(22:28):
an integral part of planningthat service.
Their arrangements were madefor the little minibus.
It only fits 24 people and onaverage it's half transit in the
community.
Integration is the name of thegame.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Perfect.
Well, when I go to communitiesanywhere and I see a bus go by,
I always look to see how manypeople are in the bus.
When it's half full or more, Igo.
Yes, it's being used, they'veobviously they're doing
something useful.
But how many times have I seenwe've all seen in, particularly
in smaller communities these bigempty buses rumbling around
(23:26):
once an hour, maybe one, maybetwo people in them, and I don't
understand why this keepshappening when it obviously
isn't serving a need, whereas ina place like pow River they're
experimenting with somethingcalled a Zunga bus.
I think it is an on-demand busthat will, through software,
create the most efficient routethrough all the demands and be
(23:48):
much more efficient andresponsive to the public.
Do you see that happening at BCTransit?
Happening at?
Speaker 2 (23:53):
BC Transit.
Yeah, I do see it.
There's evidence the fact thatPowell River is doing it, and
Powell River is a member of thatBC Transit group of communities
.
But BC Transit itself isexperimenting with a pilot in a
residential area in Kelowna withon-demand transit, which would
(24:15):
accomplish the same thing.
The difference between thePowell River example that you
gave and the Kelowna pilotthat's being run is that the
pilot is structured in a waythat can be scaled up to other
communities.
So at the core of BC Transit'sexistence is shared services, in
(24:40):
other words, being able todevelop services that can be
extended easily and scaled up toother communities, and the
Kelowna model is based upon thatkind of technology.
That can be then, once pilotedand proven successful, can then
be extended to many communitieswith less effort than
(25:07):
reinventing the wheel each time.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Fantastic.
Well, I look forward to that.
I know it's underway now, Ithink, the Cologne experiment
and it can't happen soon enough,in my opinion, particularly
because we have technology nowthat can coordinate these things
.
In Vancouver, in MetroVancouver, you still have to
phone a day ahead for HandyDart.
It's like imagine phoning a dayahead for your Uber ride.
(25:32):
It's inconceivable.
And the technology is there todo a lot of these things
differently, better than we'vedone in the past.
And obviously an activetransportation future has to
involve transit in many, manyways.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, what I've seen because of my work I was a past
chair of the Canadian UrbanTransit Association and also in
my own consulting practice fornine years worked across Canada
and what I saw in BC was thatbetween with TransLink and BC
(26:09):
Transit, these were both best ofclass organizations.
They were outward looking,they're looking for partnerships
, they're building, looking atinnovation, looking at ways to
reduce their carbon footprint asan organization and so on, and
it was as a former executivewith BC Transit I was quite
(26:32):
proud to see the organization isstill positioned in that way,
In a similar way that BC CyclingCoalition.
Hub Capital Bikes are similarlyso well regarded by other
organizations across the countryin recent conversations with
(26:52):
Cycle Toronto and Velo Quebecthat we're punching above our
weight class.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Well, I'm happy to hear that, although we tend to
look at Velo Quebec and say, wow, we'd love to be doing what
they're doing, but that's a goodthing.
Well, it sounds like we'vesketched out a future here
Better ferries, more accessibleto cyclists and active
transportation, people route,safe routes through salt spring,
starting with smithers and saltspring, and on on around, and
then some of these rail trails,because I know part of that
(27:23):
cowichan valley leg that youmentioned is on a rail bit
former rail bed, and so is thegalloping goose, and, uh,
wonderful future.
We did hear, by the way, at theconference that the Saanich
kind of sets the standard forsuburban municipality using rail
trails to increase their modeshare.
I believe it's up to 8% and itcan be done outside the major
(27:48):
built-up centers.
Anything else you want to add,steve?
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, just the direction's very positive.
The pace of development seemsslow at times, perhaps always
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I mean, I like to think that if you see the roads,
as it were, with a whole bunchof e-bike riders, through the
rebates that are going on, andother people like that, the
demand will quickly rise to dealwith safety.
And also when people see therainbow of these cycle tours and
routes, that people, it's easyto get excited about these
(28:26):
routes and if I, you and I canget excited about them, somebody
coming from Germany or Atlantacould easily also get excited
about them and spawn newindustries, new businesses and
new and ultimately, new spendingto make it all happen.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Yeah, I think so, and with integrated mobility, as I
think of it, there's a new wayof thinking that draws social
equity into the planning processand the policies of road
providers, and I think that'salso at the heart of trying to
(29:03):
make a change, with so manyyears of emphasis on
auto-oriented infrastructuredevelopments, that trying to
rebalance the scales to reflectservices for seniors, people
with disabilities, walkers,cyclists and so on scooter users
, mobility device usersReflecting that, you know, in
(29:27):
terms of some hardwired newthinking, is going to be an
important continuing step totake.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
We also heard about at the conference from people
from Indigenous communitieshaving to walk along the highway
and cross the road with nocrosswalk to get to some
semblance of public transit or aplace they can get a ride.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
I think that the main theme of the next provincial
election is going to beaffordability and these
initiatives are absolutelydelivering affordability and
hopefully some of thepoliticians will see that and
make some commitments and we'llget to this next level, because
it's waiting out there for usand it's tantalizing.
Thank you so much, steve, it'sbeen wonderful talking with you,
(30:10):
and all the best to IslandPathways.
Go up to Smithers and find outwhat they did to get all that
whack of funding and bring itback and show Minister Povham
how excited you are to bematched.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
We'll speak with the Smithers people and with the
minister For sure, and sharewhat sounds like your enthusiasm
for that project too.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Okay, steve, thank you very much, and we'll leave
it at that.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Great Thanks, so much , peter.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
You've been listening to Bike Sense, an original
podcast from the BC CyclingCoalition.
If you liked the podcast, we'dbe grateful if you could leave
us a rating.
On whatever platform you use,you can also subscribe so you
don't miss future episodes.
If you have comments orsuggestions for future episodes,
(31:07):
email me at peterladner atbccyclingca.
At bccyclingca, you can help usamplify BC Cycling Coalition's
voice by simply becoming a freemember at bccyclingca.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.