October 21, 2024 • 30 mins
Tannis Braithwaite, retired lawyer and director with the Connect the Coast Society, shares her passionate advocacy for the Connect the Coast Trail — a visionary cycling project linking Vancouver Island, the Lower Mainland, and the Sunshine Coast along the Highway 101 corridor.
Inspired by the success of Cycle 16's Smithers-to-Telkwa trail, we explore how provincial and federal support can bridge the funding gap for this ambitious project.
Explore Connect the Coast's vision HERE.
Hear the inspiration for Connect the Coast on Bike Sense's very first episode back in April 2023: From Smithers to Telkwa with Allan Cormier.
***********************************************
The Bike Sense podcast with Peter Ladner is produced by the BC Cycling Coalition – your voice for safer and more accessible cycling and active transportation in British Columbia.
Got feedback or ideas for future episodes? Please drop us an email at admin@bccycling.ca.
Membership in the BCCC is now FREE! The future of this podcast depends on people like you becoming members at BCCycling.ca.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Bike Sense , the BC Cycling Coalition's
podcast, where we talk about allthings related to active
transportation advocacy in BC.
I'm your host, peter Ladner,chair of the Board of the BC
Cycling Coalition.
I hope you enjoy the show.
Communities all over BC areexcited by the possibility of
(00:43):
cycle tourism on AAA routessuitable for all ages and
abilities, and we've coveredsome of these on this podcast
the Smithers to Telcoir route,tofino to Ucluelet, the Salish
Sea Trail from Salt SpringIsland around Couch and Valley
into Souk, the Lake to Lakeroute in Penticton and the
Okanagan Rail Trail.
But maybe the grandmother of allthese routes and dreams is the
(01:09):
Connect the Coast Trail, becauseit's so close to Vancouver and
all the possible people whocould come from there and go
north along Highway 101 pastSechelt and Roberts Creek all
the way, potentially, to PowellRiver.
All these trails have one thingin common, which is very strong
(01:31):
local advocates, and one of thestrongest of these advocates is
Tannis Braithwaite, my guesttoday.
She's a retired lawyer who is adirector with the Connect the
Coast Society, which is anoffshoot of the Transportation
Choices Sunshine CoastOrganization, which has been
championing cycling alternativesand options on the Sunshine
(01:53):
Coast for, I'm going to say,decades.
Tannis, welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Thank you, it's good to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Could you tell us off the top what is your dream Like
if all the plans came tofruition and all the funding
suddenly, mysteriously andwondrously arrived?
What would we see that you'repromoting?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Well, we would see actually a long distance
circular cycle route that wouldconnect Vancouver Island, the
lower mainland and the SunshineCoast in a great big circular
loop.
Probably the worst section sofar for cyclists is the Sunshine
(02:39):
Coast.
It's the Highway 101 corridorand, for people who aren't super
familiar with the geography,you get to the Sunshine Coast
you have to go by ferry.
There's no road connection, butthe Sunshine Coast is not an
island.
You take the ferry fromHorseshoe Bay.
It's a 40-minute ride over toLangdale and then Highway 101
(03:01):
runs about 160 kilometers northfrom there to a small town
called Lund.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
You're planning on going all the way to Lund.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yes, I mean the Connect.
The Coast Society itselfcommissioned a report back in
2021.
Back in 2021, we hired atransportation planner to take a
look at the Highway 101corridor and sort of assess the
feasibility of buildingseparated active transportation
infrastructure along that routebetween the Langdale Ferry
(03:38):
Terminal and the town of SecheltScheldt.
After that report was published, Sunshine Coast Tourism was so
excited about the project thatthey commissioned their own
report that basically continuedthe assessment of the corridor
from Sechelt all the way to Lund.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
And how feasible is it to build this route?
What did the reports discover?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
So the preliminary report is a very high level
overview.
Basically, the planner took alook at how wide is the right of
way, how wide is the roadway,where are the power poles, where
are the conflict points withdriveways, all of that sort of
information, and obviously it ispossible to build a route the
whole way, but it's not easy.
There's places where thegeography is very different,
(04:34):
there's places where the rightof way is too constrained, so
there would have to be someprivate property acquisitions.
It's always possible.
It's just a matter of how muchmoney you want to spend getting
it done.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Well, you did mention the priority on the first
section between Langdale andRoberts Creek.
Is that where you're focusingyour energy now, and describe
what that route would be like ifI rode my bike off the ferry
from Langdale?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, so one of the things that the preliminary
design reports did was they dida multiple accounts evaluation
which looked at things like whatis the level of existing demand
, what is population density inthe area, what would be the cost
of building that route, and sowhat that enabled us to do was
(05:27):
to prioritize segments of theroute for development.
It's not feasible to try to dothe whole route at once, or even
the route from Langdale toSechelt all at once.
So the first priority sectionruns from upper Gibsons to the
turnoff to Roberts Creek, so itwould connect, basically, the
(05:51):
town of Gibsons to a lower speed, lower traffic volume road that
would lead to Roberts Creek.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
And you mentioned existing demand.
What is the existing demand?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
You mentioned existing demand.
What is the existing demand?
Well, on a sunny, long weekendday, we see up to about 500
cyclists a day using the highwaycorridor.
That's obviously the peakdemand.
That's also at the busiest partof the route, which is just
outside of the town of Gibsons.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
And are those people coming from somewhere else or
are they local people?
Speaker 2 (06:30):
You know it's hard to say.
I think they're mostly localpeople.
I actually frequently do countson the highway, where I sit out
on the highway for two hours ata stretch and I take notes
about all the activetransportation users who go by.
What are they doing?
Are they walking their dog?
Are they riding their bikes?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Just a second.
You get out on a Sunday or aSaturday afternoon, you have
nothing better to do than countcyclists going by on the highway
.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It's quite a life I lead.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
And.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Well, and I try to distinguish local cyclists from
tourists, but, of course, theonly way I can do that, because
I don't stop people and ask themquestions.
Uh, if they're carrying a lotof gear they've got tents and
sleeping bags they get countedas tourists.
If they don't have a lot ofstuff, they get counted as local
people.
So it's an inexact measure.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
But, tannis, this very act of yours to sit by the
highway and count is verybizarre.
When you think that if we wereto treat cycling as a legitimate
form of transportation, why isit up to some local activist in
her spare time doing thisresearch to get it done, doing
(07:46):
this research to get it donewhen, if it involved cars, there
would be all sorts ofgovernment agencies that would
look after this and build itquickly?
I mean, why are these type ofroutes not considered basic
transportation infrastructure bythe Ministry of Transportation
Infrastructure?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Well, Peter, I think I'm the wrong one to ask that
question to.
I have no idea.
I have no idea why.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I'll bet you have some ideas, but share them with
us.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Well, I have no idea why that's not being done.
I mean, I know that it traffic.
I mean the Ministry ofTransportation and
Infrastructure does.
Do I mean the Ministry ofTransportation and
Infrastructure does do regulartraffic volume counts?
They have a permanent countstation as well as a couple of
(08:34):
count stations that I think theyrove around.
So there are count stations formotor vehicles but there aren't
any for cyclists or pedestriansthat I am aware of, but there
aren't any for cyclists orpedestrians that I am aware of.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
So, aside from counting the cars on the highway
, what has the ministry?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
done to help you, if anything.
Well, in terms of how we'redealing with the ministry, we're
just at a sort of informationsharing stage, I would call it
so.
The ministry's position is thatthey want to work through local
governments on activetransportation priorities, and
(09:16):
so what we have done is we havea professional project manager.
Actually, I would like to givea shout out to the BC Cycling
Coalition who, when I reachedout for help early on in this
project, connected me to theCycle 16 group up in Smithers,
who have not only provided uswith a tremendous amount of
(09:36):
helpful information on how to goabout this, but connected us
with their project manager, whois now also our project manager.
He's an engineer with WSP andhe really knows what he's doing.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Who is he?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
With respect to these projects.
His name is Alan Kindrat.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
So you've hired him, the local community activists
have hired him.
You pay him.
Yes, we do.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
You hired him, you pay him?
Yes, we do, and he's puttogether a proposal for all of
the things that we will need tohave done for our first segment
that we're looking at the UpperGibsons to the turnoff to
Roberts Creek that I mentionedand that involves a whole bunch
(10:37):
of interconnected steps.
You need to do environmentalevaluations, archaeological
evaluations, stakeholderengagement, topographical
surveying and design work, andso we have been working with the
local governments to fund thatproject and we've received some
grant money as well to fund thatproject.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
So you mentioned that MOTI, the provincial ministry,
wants to get some leadershipfrom the local governments.
How much have they?
You mentioned they've given yousome money.
Are they behind this project orare they just sort of watching
with some distant interest?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
I think they're watching with distant interest.
So if you look at the BC ActiveTransportation Design Guide,
the only chapter in there thatspeaks to this active
transportation infrastructure inthe ministry right-of-way is
(11:29):
Chapter F and essentiallyChapter F puts responsibility
for building and maintainingactive transportation
infrastructure even if it'sgoing to be in the provincial
right-of-way on localgovernments, and the ministries
doesn't get actively involved,as I understand it, until the
(11:56):
local processes are at thedetailed design stage.
So that's at least one or maybetwo steps into the design
process.
You go through multiple phasesof design before you actually
have a design that'sconstruction ready.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
How much would this cost the regional government if
you were to bring it all tofruition?
Do you have any ideas?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Well, I can give you a number and then I can tell you
why that number doesn't meanvery much.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Okay, let's do that.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
So the high level cost estimate for the Langdale
to Sechelt section is about $100million.
Now the way that that estimateis made is that engineers have a
standard per kilometerconstruction cost that they
(12:54):
apply for, say, a multi-use paththat comes in three levels.
So they look at whether theterrain is easy to build, in
medium difficulty or hard tobuild-in, and the per-kilometer
cost.
It's about $2 million for aneasy area to build-in, $5
(13:19):
million per kilometer in amedium area and about $11
million a kilometer in difficultareas.
Now, obviously there'sdifficult areas and then there's
difficult areas.
So on the Sunshine Coast, ourfirst segment has at least three
, possibly four, streamcrossings.
We may need major retainingwalls, long bridges, and all of
(13:45):
that interacts a lot with whatthe environmental and
archaeological findings are,because there's more permitting
and regulatory processes thatyou need to go through if you're
interfering with streams,particularly if you've got fish
bearing streams, which we do.
So at this point it's very hardis what I'm saying to have any
(14:07):
kind of accurate cost estimate.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I can't help but comment that $100 million is the
cost of about less than thecost of half a kilometer of
Highway 1 widening in the latestexpansion estimates.
So given what we're spending oncars, this is an almost trivial
amount.
Now you mentioned the TourismAssociation got excited about
(14:41):
this project, and you mentionedsome involvement from the
regional government.
What about the local FirstNations?
Are they?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
involved?
Yes, very much so.
So our first segment that we'reworking on is in Squamish
Nation territory and they havebeen very engaged.
They're currently reviewing ourenvironmental overview
assessment and they willactively participate in the
(15:09):
archaeological assessment, andthey've been coming to
stakeholder engagement meetings.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Terrific.
I once had a conversation witha board member from the BC
Ferries who you would know whosaid that BC Ferries should be
looking at the ways people comeon the ferries and get off the
ferries and if they could shiftsome of the ferry passengers
(15:33):
from cars to bikes, they wouldeffectively increase the
capacity of the ferries withvery little effort.
How much are the BC ferriesinvolved, if at all, in this
project, given that it starts ata ferry terminal and, in the
longer version, leads to anotherferry terminal?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Well, that's a very good question.
I mean, we have not activelyengaged with them, with the BC
Ferries at all on this project,but I think that's probably our
failing.
We should be engaging with them.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Well, we'd like to do a podcast with the BC Ferries,
engaging with them.
Well, we'd like to do a podcastwith the BC Ferries we're
having a lot of difficultygetting somebody to come on just
about things like theirfriendliness and wayfinding and
so on towards cyclists on theferries, which I would imagine
would have to be built into thisproject at some level.
So what have you learned, tanis, from all of these struggles
and tests and studies, otherthan what section of the of the
(16:28):
act is applied to what sectionof your project?
But generally speaking, if youwere to share some advice with
other advocates in other partsof the province, what would it
be?
Speaker 2 (16:42):
well, I think one thing that I didn't fully
understand when I started thisprocess is, essentially, what we
are trying to do is build a onelane highway, and we're trying
to build it without any money,without any staff, without any
expertise, on land that does notbelong to us, so it is not an
(17:06):
easy undertaking to us.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
So it is not an easy undertaking.
Just stop there for a second.
When you say you're building aone-lane highway, is that
because of the width of it, andthen there would be two-way
traffic on it?
That's right, you're notbuilding one lane on one side
and one on the other.
Okay, so one lane.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
No, yep.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
But when you think about what goes into building a
highway, what goes into buildinga highway, all of those same
things go into building abicycle path.
It has to be built to a veryhigh standard, and so you need
professionals doing the work.
(17:53):
It's not possible for volunteersto actually do the work, and so
that means using what influenceyou can muster to convince
governments to help in ways thatthey can, and to convince
governments to help in ways thatthey can, and we really try and
look for ways to make it easyfor governments.
So as much of the work that wecan do, we do do on behalf of
(18:13):
whoever is involved, whetherit's a local government or the
ministry, to try to move theproject forward, because the
real problem, I think, is thatgovernment is largely
overwhelmed with all of theissues that they have to deal
with, and so and I think that'strue of the local governments as
well as the provincialgovernments and so active
(18:35):
transportation never seems tomake it to the top of the heap,
so it just gets shoved aside andshoved aside, and shoved aside,
because it's something that canwait for another day, and so
we're trying to make it easierfor governments to bring it to
the top of the heap.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Governments respond to public opinion.
What's your estimate of thepublic opinion about this, and
is it getting bigger or peopleare getting less interested?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
bigger or people are getting less interested.
Well, we have overwhelmingsupport.
On the Sunshine Coast is mysense.
We do quite a bit of talking atcommunity events and tabling at
community events, and everyonethat talks to us thinks it's a
wonderful idea.
The problem is not that peopledon't want it.
People definitely do want it,but they want to have water
(19:31):
infrastructure more than theywant to have an at-bike path,
they want garbage collectionmore than they want a bike path,
and so I don't think it's alack of support.
It's a lack of prioritizationfor it, and I'm not sure how we
make it people's priority overall of the other things that
(19:53):
they have to deal with.
Believe me, if I could think ofa way I'd be doing that.
Right now is a perfect time inthe election campaign to be
raising it as an issue.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
I would like to think that as GHG emissions become
more of a concern, asaffordability becomes more of a
concern, equity people would bewanting more of what active
transportation can offer.
But obviously I understand,compared to having clean water
(20:26):
when you need it, it's hard tocompete with that.
But do people ever talk aboutthis during political campaigns?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Well, it's particularly, I think, a big
issue on the Sunshine Coast,because the ministry is also
looking at the possibility ofbuilding a new highway on the
Sunshine Coast, also looking atthe possibility of building a
new highway on the SunshineCoast, a four-lane, a new
four-lane highway that would runessentially along what is now
the power line, which isobviously a I don't know
(20:57):
hundreds of millions, possiblybillion-dollar project.
No-transcript.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
It could actually be a real money saver.
That's an interesting point.
Is that a point that's widelyshared, or is that still a bit
of a reach too far for theaverage voter?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Well, I would say that it's probably about 50-50
in terms of the people who thinkthat a new highway is needed
and the people who think thatit's not needed.
I guess that we should be doingother things.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
This is the same argument that happens all over
the province and we tend.
Our go-to position on highwaycongestion is to build more
capacity, which, as we know, isa mixed blessing it works for a
while and then it doesn't.
But I don't know that we'veever really fully explored all
the other options better transit, other safe routes for other
(22:20):
means of transportation, all thedifferent new micromobility
options coming in.
All the different newmicromobility options coming in.
Does your society work withtransit too?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
thinking that getting people out of their cars also
requires decent transit.
Yeah, we have worked a littlebit with BC Transit in terms of
how the multi-use path wouldinteract with bus stops, but a
huge problem for transit on theSunshine Coast is that it's very
dangerous to cross the highway.
The traffic volumes on theSunshine Coast Highway are over
(22:57):
13,000 cars a day on average,and they're traveling at, you
know, 80 or 90 kilometers anhour typically, and so you take
your life in your hands to crossthe highway.
There's, you know, stretches of10 kilometers just on the
section between Gibsons andSechelt where there's no
(23:20):
controlled crossing and sopeople can't get to bus stops.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Interesting.
Well, tanis, if you were tolook at the entire project let's
just say the part from RobertsCreek to Gibson's what
(23:48):
percentage of and the wholeproject project would take?
Let's say 100, what percentagealong that route are you now
with these various studies andfeasibility questions and
negotiations and so on?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
um, we're probably at about 10 completion.
I would say, um, we're, we'reworking towards getting a
conceptual design.
After that there will be awhole series of engagement
processes and then, hopefully, adetailed design, and then we
(24:17):
start trying to raise money forconstruction, which is, things
get more expensive as you goalong the path.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
When you say we, you mean the local governments have
to make that a priority forconstruction or MOTI or your
society.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Well, it's definitely going to become a priority.
It is the priority for oursociety to get this first
section built, but you're notgoing to finance the
construction of it, are you?
No, no, we're not.
It's probably, it's probablygoing to be.
The first section will cost, Iwould guess, more than $10
million, and so, no, I'm notgoing to pay for that.
(24:59):
And local government, frankly,is not going to pay for it.
Money will have because it'syou know, Gibsons has a
population of 5,000 people.
They're not going to be able tocome up with $10 million to
build this infrastructure.
So we'll need to haveparticipation from senior levels
(25:19):
of government and hopefullythat will be both the provincial
and federal governments.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
All in all, it's not very encouraging, I must say,
but the dream is so big andwonderful that I can't.
I'm sure that's why you can'tlet it go.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Well, honestly, I'm not sure that it is that
unrealistic, like when you lookat what cycle 16 has
accomplished.
This is exactly the path thatwe are on has accomplished.
This is exactly the path thatwe are on, but it's actually
moving probably 10 times thespeed of what cycle 16 was able
to move at.
I mean, they worked for yearsto get any traction and I mean I
(25:58):
think we've already got a fairamount of traction and the
provincial ministry has steppedin and taken responsibility for
the path up there and we're veryhopeful that they will do the
same thing for the path on theSunshine Coast once we get far
enough along in the process.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
That's great to hear.
I love the precedent of Cycle16 and it would be so great if
that became a precedent for allthese projects like yours.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah, I mean that was a new thing in the provincial
budget last year.
I think it was $150 millionthat was allocated for the
ministry to spend on activetransportation infrastructure in
highway right-of-ways.
So historically the ministryhas funded grants for local
governments to build things, butthey haven't actually had their
(26:49):
own pot of money to buildthings in the right of ways.
And now they do.
And that's only a year old,that program.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Oh, I didn't fully understand that.
That's a very good point.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, and that's where Cycle 16's money came from
to complete that project.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Well, tanis, all I can suggest, as a keen observer
and someone who would love tosee this implemented, is to keep
that old maxim in mind sell thebeach, not the flight.
You keep fanning the embers ofthe vision of this.
As you say, when people hearabout it, they get very excited
(27:29):
and I think if we can keep thefocus on that rather than, oh,
all the costs and barriers andproblems and things to get there
, that's what's going to take,and hopefully it will also
engender some shift in thinkingfrom the ministry that these
things are add-ons and nice tohaves rather than basic elements
of proper infrastructure fortransportation.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah, I would say I have a sense that things are
starting to shift at theministry.
I think historically they'vebeen very focused on regional
movement through trafficbasically, and not very focused
on the needs of localcommunities, and I think that is
starting to shift and when thatshift happens, I think we'll
(28:16):
definitely see more focus onactive transportation
infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Well, that's great to hear, because in your case, as
in many, many communities aroundBC, the highway is effectively
the main street of the town andwithout the involvement of MOTI,
you can't really deal withthese issues.
Tannis, thank you so much.
Is there anything more you wantto say?
Parting words of wisdom oranything?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Just best of luck to all of the groups out there that
are trying to make this happen,and thanks to all the local
governments who are supportingthat, and I hope soon that I'll
be thanking the provincial andfederal governments for also
supporting it.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
As do we.
Thanks so much, Tanis.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Thanks, Peter.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
You've been listening to bike sense, an original
podcast from the bc cyclingcoalition.
If you like the podcast, we'dbe grateful if you could leave
us a rating.
On whatever platform you use,you can also subscribe so you
don't miss future episodes.
If you have comments orsuggestions for future episodes,
(29:27):
email me at peterladner atbccyclingca.
You can help us amplify BCCycling Coalition's voice by
simply becoming a free member atbccyclingca.
Welcome to Bike Sense , the BC Cycling Coalition's
podcast, where we talk about allthings related to active
transportation advocacy in BC.
I'm your host, peter Ladner,chair of the Board of the BC
Cycling Coalition.
I hope you enjoy the show.
Communities all over BC areexcited by the possibility of
(00:43):
cycle tourism on AAA routessuitable for all ages and
abilities, and we've coveredsome of these on this podcast
the Smithers to Telcoir route,tofino to Ucluelet, the Salish
Sea Trail from Salt SpringIsland around Couch and Valley
into Souk, the Lake to Lakeroute in Penticton and the
Okanagan Rail Trail.
But maybe the grandmother of allthese routes and dreams is the
(01:09):
Connect the Coast Trail, becauseit's so close to Vancouver and
all the possible people whocould come from there and go
north along Highway 101 pastSechelt and Roberts Creek all
the way, potentially, to PowellRiver.
All these trails have one thingin common, which is very strong
(01:31):
local advocates, and one of thestrongest of these advocates is
Tannis Braithwaite, my guesttoday.
She's a retired lawyer who is adirector with the Connect the
Coast Society, which is anoffshoot of the Transportation
Choices Sunshine CoastOrganization, which has been
championing cycling alternativesand options on the Sunshine
(01:53):
Coast for, I'm going to say,decades.
Tannis, welcome.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Thank you, it's good to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Could you tell us off the top what is your dream Like
if all the plans came tofruition and all the funding
suddenly, mysteriously andwondrously arrived?
What would we see that you'repromoting?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Well, we would see actually a long distance
circular cycle route that wouldconnect Vancouver Island, the
lower mainland and the SunshineCoast in a great big circular
loop.
Probably the worst section sofar for cyclists is the Sunshine
(02:39):
Coast.
It's the Highway 101 corridorand, for people who aren't super
familiar with the geography,you get to the Sunshine Coast
you have to go by ferry.
There's no road connection, butthe Sunshine Coast is not an
island.
You take the ferry fromHorseshoe Bay.
It's a 40-minute ride over toLangdale and then Highway 101
(03:01):
runs about 160 kilometers northfrom there to a small town
called Lund.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
You're planning on going all the way to Lund.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yes, I mean the Connect.
The Coast Society itselfcommissioned a report back in
2021.
Back in 2021, we hired atransportation planner to take a
look at the Highway 101corridor and sort of assess the
feasibility of buildingseparated active transportation
infrastructure along that routebetween the Langdale Ferry
(03:38):
Terminal and the town of SecheltScheldt.
After that report was published, Sunshine Coast Tourism was so
excited about the project thatthey commissioned their own
report that basically continuedthe assessment of the corridor
from Sechelt all the way to Lund.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
And how feasible is it to build this route?
What did the reports discover?
Speaker 2 (04:14):
So the preliminary report is a very high level
overview.
Basically, the planner took alook at how wide is the right of
way, how wide is the roadway,where are the power poles, where
are the conflict points withdriveways, all of that sort of
information, and obviously it ispossible to build a route the
whole way, but it's not easy.
There's places where thegeography is very different,
(04:34):
there's places where the rightof way is too constrained, so
there would have to be someprivate property acquisitions.
It's always possible.
It's just a matter of how muchmoney you want to spend getting
it done.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Well, you did mention the priority on the first
section between Langdale andRoberts Creek.
Is that where you're focusingyour energy now, and describe
what that route would be like ifI rode my bike off the ferry
from Langdale?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, so one of the things that the preliminary
design reports did was they dida multiple accounts evaluation
which looked at things like whatis the level of existing demand
, what is population density inthe area, what would be the cost
of building that route, and sowhat that enabled us to do was
(05:27):
to prioritize segments of theroute for development.
It's not feasible to try to dothe whole route at once, or even
the route from Langdale toSechelt all at once.
So the first priority sectionruns from upper Gibsons to the
turnoff to Roberts Creek, so itwould connect, basically, the
(05:51):
town of Gibsons to a lower speed, lower traffic volume road that
would lead to Roberts Creek.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
And you mentioned existing demand.
What is the existing demand?
Speaker 2 (06:04):
You mentioned existing demand.
What is the existing demand?
Well, on a sunny, long weekendday, we see up to about 500
cyclists a day using the highwaycorridor.
That's obviously the peakdemand.
That's also at the busiest partof the route, which is just
outside of the town of Gibsons.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
And are those people coming from somewhere else or
are they local people?
Speaker 2 (06:30):
You know it's hard to say.
I think they're mostly localpeople.
I actually frequently do countson the highway, where I sit out
on the highway for two hours ata stretch and I take notes
about all the activetransportation users who go by.
What are they doing?
Are they walking their dog?
Are they riding their bikes?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Just a second.
You get out on a Sunday or aSaturday afternoon, you have
nothing better to do than countcyclists going by on the highway
.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It's quite a life I lead.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
And.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Well, and I try to distinguish local cyclists from
tourists, but, of course, theonly way I can do that, because
I don't stop people and ask themquestions.
Uh, if they're carrying a lotof gear they've got tents and
sleeping bags they get countedas tourists.
If they don't have a lot ofstuff, they get counted as local
people.
So it's an inexact measure.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
But, tannis, this very act of yours to sit by the
highway and count is verybizarre.
When you think that if we wereto treat cycling as a legitimate
form of transportation, why isit up to some local activist in
her spare time doing thisresearch to get it done, doing
(07:46):
this research to get it donewhen, if it involved cars, there
would be all sorts ofgovernment agencies that would
look after this and build itquickly?
I mean, why are these type ofroutes not considered basic
transportation infrastructure bythe Ministry of Transportation
Infrastructure?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Well, Peter, I think I'm the wrong one to ask that
question to.
I have no idea.
I have no idea why.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I'll bet you have some ideas, but share them with
us.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Well, I have no idea why that's not being done.
I mean, I know that it traffic.
I mean the Ministry ofTransportation and
Infrastructure does.
Do I mean the Ministry ofTransportation and
Infrastructure does do regulartraffic volume counts?
They have a permanent countstation as well as a couple of
(08:34):
count stations that I think theyrove around.
So there are count stations formotor vehicles but there aren't
any for cyclists or pedestriansthat I am aware of, but there
aren't any for cyclists orpedestrians that I am aware of.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
So, aside from counting the cars on the highway
, what has the ministry?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
done to help you, if anything.
Well, in terms of how we'redealing with the ministry, we're
just at a sort of informationsharing stage, I would call it
so.
The ministry's position is thatthey want to work through local
governments on activetransportation priorities, and
(09:16):
so what we have done is we havea professional project manager.
Actually, I would like to givea shout out to the BC Cycling
Coalition who, when I reachedout for help early on in this
project, connected me to theCycle 16 group up in Smithers,
who have not only provided uswith a tremendous amount of
(09:36):
helpful information on how to goabout this, but connected us
with their project manager, whois now also our project manager.
He's an engineer with WSP andhe really knows what he's doing.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Who is he?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
With respect to these projects.
His name is Alan Kindrat.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
So you've hired him, the local community activists
have hired him.
You pay him.
Yes, we do.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
You hired him, you pay him?
Yes, we do, and he's puttogether a proposal for all of
the things that we will need tohave done for our first segment
that we're looking at the UpperGibsons to the turnoff to
Roberts Creek that I mentionedand that involves a whole bunch
(10:37):
of interconnected steps.
You need to do environmentalevaluations, archaeological
evaluations, stakeholderengagement, topographical
surveying and design work, andso we have been working with the
local governments to fund thatproject and we've received some
grant money as well to fund thatproject.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
So you mentioned that MOTI, the provincial ministry,
wants to get some leadershipfrom the local governments.
How much have they?
You mentioned they've given yousome money.
Are they behind this project orare they just sort of watching
with some distant interest?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
I think they're watching with distant interest.
So if you look at the BC ActiveTransportation Design Guide,
the only chapter in there thatspeaks to this active
transportation infrastructure inthe ministry right-of-way is
(11:29):
Chapter F and essentiallyChapter F puts responsibility
for building and maintainingactive transportation
infrastructure even if it'sgoing to be in the provincial
right-of-way on localgovernments, and the ministries
doesn't get actively involved,as I understand it, until the
(11:56):
local processes are at thedetailed design stage.
So that's at least one or maybetwo steps into the design
process.
You go through multiple phasesof design before you actually
have a design that'sconstruction ready.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
How much would this cost the regional government if
you were to bring it all tofruition?
Do you have any ideas?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Well, I can give you a number and then I can tell you
why that number doesn't meanvery much.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Okay, let's do that.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
So the high level cost estimate for the Langdale
to Sechelt section is about $100million.
Now the way that that estimateis made is that engineers have a
standard per kilometerconstruction cost that they
(12:54):
apply for, say, a multi-use paththat comes in three levels.
So they look at whether theterrain is easy to build, in
medium difficulty or hard tobuild-in, and the per-kilometer
cost.
It's about $2 million for aneasy area to build-in, $5
(13:19):
million per kilometer in amedium area and about $11
million a kilometer in difficultareas.
Now, obviously there'sdifficult areas and then there's
difficult areas.
So on the Sunshine Coast, ourfirst segment has at least three
, possibly four, streamcrossings.
We may need major retainingwalls, long bridges, and all of
(13:45):
that interacts a lot with whatthe environmental and
archaeological findings are,because there's more permitting
and regulatory processes thatyou need to go through if you're
interfering with streams,particularly if you've got fish
bearing streams, which we do.
So at this point it's very hardis what I'm saying to have any
(14:07):
kind of accurate cost estimate.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I can't help but comment that $100 million is the
cost of about less than thecost of half a kilometer of
Highway 1 widening in the latestexpansion estimates.
So given what we're spending oncars, this is an almost trivial
amount.
Now you mentioned the TourismAssociation got excited about
(14:41):
this project, and you mentionedsome involvement from the
regional government.
What about the local FirstNations?
Are they?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
involved?
Yes, very much so.
So our first segment that we'reworking on is in Squamish
Nation territory and they havebeen very engaged.
They're currently reviewing ourenvironmental overview
assessment and they willactively participate in the
(15:09):
archaeological assessment, andthey've been coming to
stakeholder engagement meetings.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Terrific.
I once had a conversation witha board member from the BC
Ferries who you would know whosaid that BC Ferries should be
looking at the ways people comeon the ferries and get off the
ferries and if they could shiftsome of the ferry passengers
(15:33):
from cars to bikes, they wouldeffectively increase the
capacity of the ferries withvery little effort.
How much are the BC ferriesinvolved, if at all, in this
project, given that it starts ata ferry terminal and, in the
longer version, leads to anotherferry terminal?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Well, that's a very good question.
I mean, we have not activelyengaged with them, with the BC
Ferries at all on this project,but I think that's probably our
failing.
We should be engaging with them.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Well, we'd like to do a podcast with the BC Ferries,
engaging with them.
Well, we'd like to do a podcastwith the BC Ferries we're
having a lot of difficultygetting somebody to come on just
about things like theirfriendliness and wayfinding and
so on towards cyclists on theferries, which I would imagine
would have to be built into thisproject at some level.
So what have you learned, tanis, from all of these struggles
and tests and studies, otherthan what section of the of the
(16:28):
act is applied to what sectionof your project?
But generally speaking, if youwere to share some advice with
other advocates in other partsof the province, what would it
be?
Speaker 2 (16:42):
well, I think one thing that I didn't fully
understand when I started thisprocess is, essentially, what we
are trying to do is build a onelane highway, and we're trying
to build it without any money,without any staff, without any
expertise, on land that does notbelong to us, so it is not an
(17:06):
easy undertaking to us.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
So it is not an easy undertaking.
Just stop there for a second.
When you say you're building aone-lane highway, is that
because of the width of it, andthen there would be two-way
traffic on it?
That's right, you're notbuilding one lane on one side
and one on the other.
Okay, so one lane.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
No, yep.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
But when you think about what goes into building a
highway, what goes into buildinga highway, all of those same
things go into building abicycle path.
It has to be built to a veryhigh standard, and so you need
professionals doing the work.
(17:53):
It's not possible for volunteersto actually do the work, and so
that means using what influenceyou can muster to convince
governments to help in ways thatthey can, and to convince
governments to help in ways thatthey can, and we really try and
look for ways to make it easyfor governments.
So as much of the work that wecan do, we do do on behalf of
(18:13):
whoever is involved, whetherit's a local government or the
ministry, to try to move theproject forward, because the
real problem, I think, is thatgovernment is largely
overwhelmed with all of theissues that they have to deal
with, and so and I think that'strue of the local governments as
well as the provincialgovernments and so active
(18:35):
transportation never seems tomake it to the top of the heap,
so it just gets shoved aside andshoved aside, and shoved aside,
because it's something that canwait for another day, and so
we're trying to make it easierfor governments to bring it to
the top of the heap.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Governments respond to public opinion.
What's your estimate of thepublic opinion about this, and
is it getting bigger or peopleare getting less interested?
Speaker 2 (19:10):
bigger or people are getting less interested.
Well, we have overwhelmingsupport.
On the Sunshine Coast is mysense.
We do quite a bit of talking atcommunity events and tabling at
community events, and everyonethat talks to us thinks it's a
wonderful idea.
The problem is not that peopledon't want it.
People definitely do want it,but they want to have water
(19:31):
infrastructure more than theywant to have an at-bike path,
they want garbage collectionmore than they want a bike path,
and so I don't think it's alack of support.
It's a lack of prioritizationfor it, and I'm not sure how we
make it people's priority overall of the other things that
(19:53):
they have to deal with.
Believe me, if I could think ofa way I'd be doing that.
Right now is a perfect time inthe election campaign to be
raising it as an issue.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
I would like to think that as GHG emissions become
more of a concern, asaffordability becomes more of a
concern, equity people would bewanting more of what active
transportation can offer.
But obviously I understand,compared to having clean water
(20:26):
when you need it, it's hard tocompete with that.
But do people ever talk aboutthis during political campaigns?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Well, it's particularly, I think, a big
issue on the Sunshine Coast,because the ministry is also
looking at the possibility ofbuilding a new highway on the
Sunshine Coast, also looking atthe possibility of building a
new highway on the SunshineCoast, a four-lane, a new
four-lane highway that would runessentially along what is now
the power line, which isobviously a I don't know
(20:57):
hundreds of millions, possiblybillion-dollar project.
No-transcript.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
It could actually be a real money saver.
That's an interesting point.
Is that a point that's widelyshared, or is that still a bit
of a reach too far for theaverage voter?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Well, I would say that it's probably about 50-50
in terms of the people who thinkthat a new highway is needed
and the people who think thatit's not needed.
I guess that we should be doingother things.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
This is the same argument that happens all over
the province and we tend.
Our go-to position on highwaycongestion is to build more
capacity, which, as we know, isa mixed blessing it works for a
while and then it doesn't.
But I don't know that we'veever really fully explored all
the other options better transit, other safe routes for other
(22:20):
means of transportation, all thedifferent new micromobility
options coming in.
All the different newmicromobility options coming in.
Does your society work withtransit too?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
thinking that getting people out of their cars also
requires decent transit.
Yeah, we have worked a littlebit with BC Transit in terms of
how the multi-use path wouldinteract with bus stops, but a
huge problem for transit on theSunshine Coast is that it's very
dangerous to cross the highway.
The traffic volumes on theSunshine Coast Highway are over
(22:57):
13,000 cars a day on average,and they're traveling at, you
know, 80 or 90 kilometers anhour typically, and so you take
your life in your hands to crossthe highway.
There's, you know, stretches of10 kilometers just on the
section between Gibsons andSechelt where there's no
(23:20):
controlled crossing and sopeople can't get to bus stops.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Interesting.
Well, tanis, if you were tolook at the entire project let's
just say the part from RobertsCreek to Gibson's what
(23:48):
percentage of and the wholeproject project would take?
Let's say 100, what percentagealong that route are you now
with these various studies andfeasibility questions and
negotiations and so on?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
um, we're probably at about 10 completion.
I would say, um, we're, we'reworking towards getting a
conceptual design.
After that there will be awhole series of engagement
processes and then, hopefully, adetailed design, and then we
(24:17):
start trying to raise money forconstruction, which is, things
get more expensive as you goalong the path.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
When you say we, you mean the local governments have
to make that a priority forconstruction or MOTI or your
society.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Well, it's definitely going to become a priority.
It is the priority for oursociety to get this first
section built, but you're notgoing to finance the
construction of it, are you?
No, no, we're not.
It's probably, it's probablygoing to be.
The first section will cost, Iwould guess, more than $10
million, and so, no, I'm notgoing to pay for that.
(24:59):
And local government, frankly,is not going to pay for it.
Money will have because it'syou know, Gibsons has a
population of 5,000 people.
They're not going to be able tocome up with $10 million to
build this infrastructure.
So we'll need to haveparticipation from senior levels
(25:19):
of government and hopefullythat will be both the provincial
and federal governments.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
All in all, it's not very encouraging, I must say,
but the dream is so big andwonderful that I can't.
I'm sure that's why you can'tlet it go.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Well, honestly, I'm not sure that it is that
unrealistic, like when you lookat what cycle 16 has
accomplished.
This is exactly the path thatwe are on has accomplished.
This is exactly the path thatwe are on, but it's actually
moving probably 10 times thespeed of what cycle 16 was able
to move at.
I mean, they worked for yearsto get any traction and I mean I
(25:58):
think we've already got a fairamount of traction and the
provincial ministry has steppedin and taken responsibility for
the path up there and we're veryhopeful that they will do the
same thing for the path on theSunshine Coast once we get far
enough along in the process.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
That's great to hear.
I love the precedent of Cycle16 and it would be so great if
that became a precedent for allthese projects like yours.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah, I mean that was a new thing in the provincial
budget last year.
I think it was $150 millionthat was allocated for the
ministry to spend on activetransportation infrastructure in
highway right-of-ways.
So historically the ministryhas funded grants for local
governments to build things, butthey haven't actually had their
(26:49):
own pot of money to buildthings in the right of ways.
And now they do.
And that's only a year old,that program.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Oh, I didn't fully understand that.
That's a very good point.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, and that's where Cycle 16's money came from
to complete that project.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Well, tanis, all I can suggest, as a keen observer
and someone who would love tosee this implemented, is to keep
that old maxim in mind sell thebeach, not the flight.
You keep fanning the embers ofthe vision of this.
As you say, when people hearabout it, they get very excited
(27:29):
and I think if we can keep thefocus on that rather than, oh,
all the costs and barriers andproblems and things to get there
, that's what's going to take,and hopefully it will also
engender some shift in thinkingfrom the ministry that these
things are add-ons and nice tohaves rather than basic elements
of proper infrastructure fortransportation.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Yeah, I would say I have a sense that things are
starting to shift at theministry.
I think historically they'vebeen very focused on regional
movement through trafficbasically, and not very focused
on the needs of localcommunities, and I think that is
starting to shift and when thatshift happens, I think we'll
(28:16):
definitely see more focus onactive transportation
infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
Well, that's great to hear, because in your case, as
in many, many communities aroundBC, the highway is effectively
the main street of the town andwithout the involvement of MOTI,
you can't really deal withthese issues.
Tannis, thank you so much.
Is there anything more you wantto say?
Parting words of wisdom oranything?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Just best of luck to all of the groups out there that
are trying to make this happen,and thanks to all the local
governments who are supportingthat, and I hope soon that I'll
be thanking the provincial andfederal governments for also
supporting it.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
As do we.
Thanks so much, Tanis.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Thanks, Peter.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
You've been listening to bike sense, an original
podcast from the bc cyclingcoalition.
If you like the podcast, we'dbe grateful if you could leave
us a rating.
On whatever platform you use,you can also subscribe so you
don't miss future episodes.
If you have comments orsuggestions for future episodes,
(29:27):
email me at peterladner atbccyclingca.
You can help us amplify BCCycling Coalition's voice by
simply becoming a free member atbccyclingca.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.