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April 26, 2021 • 49 mins

William Forchion interviews Laughter League Hero, Hospital Clown, Multifaceted Performer, Jay Stewart

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Intro Voice (00:05):
Welcome to a place where we're thinking together
and thinking deeper about who weare. And what we do in this
world. Welcome to the Billosophypodcast.

Jay Stewart (00:18):
Listen, Bobo. The Comedy guys are the ones who
work.

William Forchion (00:21):
Hello, this is Billosophy 101. And I am William
Forchion. Today, my guest is

Jay Stewart (00:28):
My name is Jay Stewart. And I am a long story
short, I'm a clown, varietyartist and physical comedian.
And I've been able to pay mybills doing that for about 30
years. So I'm one of the luckyones.

William Forchion (00:45):
What the listeners and the viewers don't
know is that just before werolled, I talked to Jay about
how he was going to jump off andwhere he's gonna, how he's going
to describe themselves. And thatwould be how we would run this
this interview, the fact thatJay describes himself as a
clown, I really thinkunderserves the clown business.

(01:06):
Because Jay is thequintessential clown. And he may
not agree with that. But I'veknown him for well, around 30
years or so maybe more. And thiswhen way back when as young baby
clowns, this guy was doingsomething that I mean, I was I

(01:27):
came into clowning as an actor,and Jay came to clowning. And as
a clown.

Jay Stewart (01:36):
You're right. You know, I, I stumbled into this.
And probably like you did billand realized this is so open and
kind of all about who I am, asopposed to a roll that some
directors telling you how to doit was be what you think is
funny, and what you can do forthe crowd, you know, and that

(02:00):
was why I latched on to clownand even with all the negative
images and stuff that are outthere, I'm still proud to call
myself a clown. And to say that,you know, what I tried to do is,
you know, bring some laughterand some, you know, positive
feelings into this world.

William Forchion (02:17):
Right, right.
Well, I just jumped in saidwe've known each other for 30
some odd years. And but I wantto I want to flash forward.
Normally I just take out take usdown the long meandering road of
of our connections through theyears. But I want to flash
forward because we have a commonthing in that I worked with the
Big Apple circus clown care unitin New York way back in the

(02:38):
early 90s. And you are currentlyworking with the laughter league
in Boston. And for me, the mywork in the hospitals. Actually,
let's back up let's just you canyou explain what the laughter
league is because I can explainwhat the the Big Apple circus
clown care unit was because itno longer exists. And but just
explain what that is what itwhat it is with the laughter

(03:01):
league does.

Jay Stewart (03:03):
It's It's good that that you brought up the Big
Apple circus clown care unit,because that's what we were at
Boston Children's Hospital for20 years. It was the team that
was at Boston Children'sHospital where I know you worked
in New York. And there's theyhad satellites all over the
place at the high point of theBig Apple circus clown care

(03:23):
days. And, and then when theyfolded the tents. And when the
circus kind of went under theall the clown teams were kind of
left with, you know, somequestion marks. A lot of them
gathered together under anothergroup called healthy humor,
which is what's now providingcloud teams to those same
facilities. Our group went adifferent route. And we set up

(03:47):
our own our own group, thelaughter league. Can you see
that there? Yes, we weaffiliated ourselves with
another group in Texas, whetherit was a couple of hospitals
there, our group in Boston andthen also we also do Hasbro
Children's Hospital inProvidence, Rhode Island. So we

(04:09):
put all that together. It's ait's a fair size. Team of
laughter lead clowns. Now theidea of that is room to room,
bedside visitation. And our goalis not to go in and wring the
laugh out of some sick kid, itis out a predatory. Got to get

(04:31):
the laugh, focus. I'm sure youremember. The main thing is
we're there as part of thecircle of care is what we call
it. And we can help with somethings that maybe the medical
folks can't, you know, we're notgoing to prescribe anything and
we're not going to do procedure,but we can see the emotional
value in the room and we can seewhere people are at and it's

(04:54):
good stress relief, and it'sgood. You know, to take that
anxiety down a little bitthrough laughter and through
amazement and through all thedifferent things our team does
magic music puppetry, eccentriccharacters, clown, you know,
it's, it's, it's a really bigpicture for something that
happens at a small level, youand I both bill have been in

(05:18):
front of big crowds, you know,and we've had good success
making huge crowds laugh, youknow, Madison Square Garden on
opening night, all of that, youknow, it's fantastic. Somehow,
that doesn't quite measure up tobedside, in the oncology unit.
Right? No, this kid and thisfamily is going through

(05:41):
something that is horrible.

William Forchion (05:44):
And it's there's no other way to put it.
There's one there, you mentioneda few different things. And just
from my experience, one of thewhen we were when working in the
hospitals, our job, you know,there's a whole team of medical
professionals who are dealingwith the illness, right, our job
was to work with that healthynugget of what everyone who was

(06:07):
there, and it wasn't just thepatients, it was the families,
it was the caregivers, it waseveryone who we were in contact
was our audience. It's true.
There was also one thing MichaelChristensen, who was the founder
of the Big Apple circus clowncare unit. One of the things he
said to me, he was the personwho auditioned me for the

(06:28):
conquer unit. And it helps shapeeverything I did, as a performer
from that point on. And it was,it was about showing up, he
said, Your job is to show up,just being there in the makeup.
And in the weird in the labcoat, which looks like the

(06:50):
normal part of the hospitalprocedure. But it says Big Apple
circus clown care unit, you gotto if you're wearing whatever
your outfit is, that doesn'tfit. It's that not fitting that
makes it work. When you show up,and the doctors look and go,
that's one of No, that's not oneof us. Or the patient looks up

(07:11):
and goes, you're not going togive me medicine, you know, like
there's just being in Congresswas 90% of the job.

Jay Stewart (07:26):
He said something to me once or actually to a
group of us, but I was there.
And it resonated with me in thesame kind of way. He said, we,
we acknowledge What's wrong, butwe focus on what's right, right.
And what's right is right now,we've got this moment that we
can do these silly, Goofy kidthings and not be a patient or

(07:46):
the parent of a patient or acaregiver or whatever. I love it
when we're working. And we'redoing something with a kid and a
doctor walks in. And we alwayskind of want to get out of the
way of that doctor, butsometimes they come in and give
us the nod that they're willingto play a little too. And we can
bring them into something thatwe're doing if it's a song or

(08:07):
whatever. One great example Ialways come back to is in the
emergency department. We wouldgo on Monday nights, because
that's when it was very busy.
And I'm not sure why. But thatwas when we went. And it was
always, you know, you've seen TVshows about emergency
departments. It's not, you know,a pretty place usually. And and

(08:29):
you think well, why are theclowns in the way, you know, but
we go back to the treatmentrooms, a lot of people are
waiting for something to happen,and whatever, we're not right in
the middle of the triage, youknow, and we're back there. And
we're, my buddy and I aresinging a song. It's john
Denver, you know, country roads,right? Take me home to the place

(08:50):
I belong. And then we'restanding in the doorway singing
to this family. And this doctorcomes out and puts his head
right between ours and he goesWest Virginia. We did a double
take. And we all we just hit itas big as we could. And it
stopped everything in that areafor just a second. Right?
Everybody looked in and cameback to it later. And I was

(09:11):
like, you know, for that moment.
We were all just enjoying that.
And we weren't thinking aboutall the medicine and all the
grief and all the anxiety andall the misery. We were people.
We were human beings justengaged and enjoying

William Forchion (09:28):
what so often.
So in medicine, they'reconstantly looking for, you
know, like the QR the this andwhat I find in the this the
hospital clown is that moreoften than not you it's not that
you create miracles, but youopen that doorway and create a
rift where miracles can seep inwhere they can or that they can

(09:50):
be seen and made visible in thatmoment. And the miracles don't
always happen to be these bigphenomenon. Things like there is
no degree in miracles. It's notlike that was a lesser miracle.
And this is a bigger miracle,that moment when the kid who you
know, or the parent who justhasn't seen hope, or light, and
they see you, and that shakesthem up so much that they open

(10:14):
that door and go, I see there'shope here.

Jay Stewart (10:19):
Yeah, that was great. We another example of
what you're talking about, wasso great. There was a kid who
was nonverbal. He was on thespectrum, when we see a fair
amount of kids who were dealingwith that families dealing with
it, it's it's a, it's a toughthing. And I my, my heart goes
out to them. But I found thatoften, those folks who are on

(10:45):
that spectrum, it's not likethey're not perceiving their
world. It's not like they're notaware, you know, it's just, I'm
not, I'm not a physician, Ican't explain it. But I do know
that they respond in their way.
And we, a great example of thatwas, we came up to this kid, and
it was I think, again, it was inthe emergency department,
because it was an area wherethere was a bunch of, you know,

(11:06):
bays, where people were waitingfor a dock or whatever. And we
can walk in and we're playingaround. And we were telling
jokes to one of the otherpeople, we were like joking
around, and we said, well, what,why does a wear, you know,
something that I can't rememberwhat the setup was, but as we
said that the setup, the kidwho's nonverbal goes, because

(11:27):
it's hammer time. And we werelike, you know, we didn't even
know that he was nonverbal.
Right? Because we hadn't gottenthe whole rundown or anything we
walked out with, like, you know,why'd the chicken cross the
road? Right? And because it'shammer time, and then I mean,
every head swiveled, and looked,and we thought, okay, boom,

(11:49):
boom, boom, boom, you know, westarted doing our ever dance.
And, and, because I just didhave to reference this kid knew,
right? He knew, somehow. And sowe did hammertime for a few
minutes. And later, we werestill in the general area, but
another other side of it. Andone of the nurses came over and
just said, I don't know if youknew that that kid was

(12:09):
nonverbal. It hadn't saidanything for years. And suddenly
you guys come in, and he'ssaying hammertime I've often
wanted to send MC Hammer thatanecdote so maybe you get him to
watch this. Hammer time reacheseverybody, right? You know, it's

(12:30):
universal

William Forchion (12:31):
hammer, time crosses through and into the
clown world, right?

Jay Stewart (12:37):
You gave us a great intro for that dance. And some
my buddy has a ukulele he playsreally well. And he started
playing. And we did we did alittle dance and stuff and and
the room just went I mean, theenergy went through the roof.

William Forchion (12:50):
And I know that anybody here if you pass it
on to MC Hammer that his what hedid way back when was healing
now, you know, exactly.

Jay Stewart (13:00):
I'd be proud, you know, if I was him, I was proud
just that this silly joke, youknow, that got the kid to to
respond. He was a little bitolder kid to what like a little
kid, it was probably, you know,I don't know, mid teens.

William Forchion (13:13):
But this I mean, this, obviously, just like
in my world, the stepping intothe hospital stuff was very
transformative. Now let's backup. Let's go do a regression
trail. How did you get there?
How did you like where? So let'sbecause clouding has been
transformative in your world,and how you're doing it? Where

(13:34):
did you start? How did you getinto this? Would you start as a
kid going, I want to be a clown.
Or I heard that no.

Jay Stewart (13:43):
To be honest, I had no reference of clown as a as a
young person I didn't want I'dnever even seen a circus. My dad
said he took me when I waslittle, but we didn't go, you
know, it wasn't a regular thing.
I didn't have a frame ofreference for what a clown was
to be honest. But I was exposedearly to physical comedy, and
the great old golden age of youknow, physical comedians with

(14:08):
Chaplin and Keaton and Laureland Hardy, and, you know, the
silent guys. And then when itcame into talkies and bringing
in, you know, some of the otherAbbott and Costello and Marx
Brothers and so I my dad was aformative for me in that regard.
He introduced us all of us kidsto that stuff. In an early age,
there was a little village inRaleigh, North Carolina. And

(14:30):
there was a little, you know,art house cinema that showed old
stuff like that, you know, likea Chaplin Film Festival. We go
see city lights and the kid andthe circus and, and some of the
other movies that Chaplin madething with Buster Keaton, and
the Laurel and Hardy ones werethe ones that I always remember

(14:52):
but like my favorite movieforever, and it's still kind of
his his city lights by CharlieChaplin. If you haven't seen
that one. guys find it becausebrilliant in high school, I was
the editor of the high schoolnewspaper, I was convinced I was
going to go into journalism. SoI was gonna be an English major.
I know you're laughing now cuzyou know me now, but then I was,

(15:12):
I was serious. I was trying todo and, and I was gonna do the
whole the whole round.

William Forchion (15:20):
Just for a moment, just so you know, what
you didn't know is that I alsothought I was going to
journalism. My junior year ofhigh school, I went to a
journalism workshop forminorities and was run by the
the Philadelphia daily newseditor. And it was serious deal.
Yeah. I was like a writing.

Jay Stewart (15:42):
Yeah. Well, what I figured out through doing the
high school paper was, yeah, itwas a lot of work. And also, I
hadn't, didn't have a whole lotof interest in news. My thing
was, I would really have beenbetter doing like, a literary
magazine, or something likethat, where it was, what I
enjoyed was writing stories andtelling stories and doing and so

(16:05):
all I became the editor, becauseI guess I was the only one who
would take the gig. I don'tknow. But our newspaper always
ended up being mostly featurearticles, you know, and just
junk. The news was pretty small.
Yeah. Okay. So anyway, that wasit. And so then I go to college,
and I'm thinking, Okay, I'mgoing to get into this. And
we'll do all that. And I tookdrama appreciation as an
elective, thinking allcharacters as easy, as easy a,

(16:29):
oh, watch some movies, you know,go to a play be great. And I'm
sitting there in class firstday, and the director walks in,
of the entire, I'm taking hisclass. He's the director of the
whole theater department, hewalks in, and then my eyes just
went blank. Like, I mean, theguy was, he was intimidating. He
was inspiring. He was riveting.

(16:54):
He held focus with no effortwhatsoever. He was one of those
guys. And I just sat there andwent, that's something I want, I
want to be able to walk in aroom and own it. I want to I
want to be somebody who's that,that to gather. You know, I he,
his name was Dr. James Oliverlink. And he's sadly passed on

(17:19):
now but became a real mentor forme and did encourage me, and I
actually, for that class, if youauditioned for the mainstage
play, you got extra credit. So Iwent to the audition. And he
cast me. And that was it. Thenext four years at that school,
I was on stage every time therewas anything. So in a way you

(17:39):
and I both sort of came at itfrom a theater at least.

William Forchion (17:43):
Yeah, here's,

Jay Stewart (17:44):
I kept thinking that I was going to be the next
sir Laurence Olivier, and that Iwas going to be cast as Hamlet
and, you know, speak the speech.
I pray you, you know, it's goingto be all that and he kept
casting me as a stooge. I waspoverty relief in every play.
Finally, I said, Dr. Link, justwondering, you know, can I can

(18:05):
I, you know, what can I do tostep up out of these stupid
roles? And he goes, What are youtalking about? I said, Well, you
know, I'd love to play like,normally the lead role says,
Look, he called everybody Boboinstead of name. is hunting dog
was named Bobo. All right.

(18:26):
That's what Allison Bobo,you're, you're in the most
important place in the show.
Your comedy relief? Yeah, we gotto have that. I can't, I can't
waste you in a lead role. I waslike, wait a minute. And I'm
coming out, I'm falling down.
I'm getting a laugh, and I leaveand then everybody else is the

(18:47):
ones taking the big bow at theend and go Wait a minute, you
know, but I realized, he alsosaid to me, Listen, Bubba, the
comedy guys are the ones whowork. Those lead guys are all
fighting. They're all fightingto get jobs. A good character
actor will always get work. AndI went, Oh, if I really want to

(19:08):
do this, if I want to pursuethis, you know, okay. Well, then
I went to grad school. Bill. Allright. Wave that one in front of
you. Yeah. I didn't want to tryto find a job yet. So I had a
chance to go. I had a chance togo to grad school. So I was
like, okay, they offered me goodfinancial aid and stuff. So I
was like, Okay, I'll do that.
While I was there. I met anotherprofessor who was amazing. Jim

(19:29):
darting from London, actuallyfrom Northern England, but lived
in London, and he would comeover and spring and do this big
spring musical. And this guy wasas inspiring but from a
different way instead of scaringyour pants off. This guy. Just
he was all about love. It wasjust like this guy. Just he

(19:49):
loved everybody that he met. Hewas this big, open hearted guy.
I remember thinking oh my gosh,you know, he's so great. And he
says to me, Jay, you follow?
down Well, you should look intophysical comedy and clowning.
And I said, Hmm. Those were itwas weird to me. It was like,

(20:10):
Okay, here's this guy who I'mgetting a degree in theater and
legitimate kind of stuff. And hewants me to go be a clown. I
mean, I'm like, You mean likebirthday parties and stuff like
that? Well, about that time thecircus came to town, Ringling
Brothers, Barnum and Bailey, andthey had an audition for the
clown college. And so he and acouple other people, that
friends of mine said, you got togo do that. You should go on the

(20:32):
audition. And I was like, Isthat why people?

William Forchion (20:37):
put you out with the trash?

Jay Stewart (20:41):
I literally got dragged to the thing. Okay. I
said, Get in the car. I'm takingyou to it. Because I said, you
know, it was that the it wascross. You know, it was it
wasn't close where the auditionwas. And I was like, I don't
know if my car will make it andyou just get in the car. I'm
taking you. So I literally getdragged to the audition and walk
into the circus, you know,building the arena, right?

(21:03):
Greensboro, North Carolina. Youprobably remember that.

William Forchion (21:05):
Yeah. Okay.

Jay Stewart (21:07):
There's elephants in that ring was aerialists over
here. And then the centering asclowns running an hour long
workshop of improvisation andphysical gags and show me what
you got kid. And it was almostexactly what I was doing. For
the whole six years I've been inschool, right? I was just like,
this is where I'm supposed tobe. This is it. And I looked at

(21:28):
that guy who brought me in Iwent, I can't thank you enough
for bringing me to this. I waslike, I'm, I'm doing this
period. It worked out my thefaculty were cool. And I went
and did it. And then I ended upgetting a job out of it. That's
when I met you and got on theroad in two years at that time.
And then I realized that Ididn't go back and finish I
would have wasted. I did all thecoursework, then went to clown

(21:51):
college. And then I had to goback and write the thesis or the
degree, but didn't do that Iwould have wasted all that time.
So I left I went back andfinished the degree and got the
degree. And then I was luckyenough. Bill, I'll say it,
you're looking at a very luckyguy. And I understand that it's

(22:11):
a lot of it is my privilege. Youknow, I own it. I say yes. I
don't know what I did to deservethis other than just be who I
am. And white guy, okay. I'lltake it. I'd say it happened. I
don't ever want to rely on that.
I don't ever want to ask for it.
But at the same time, if someonegives me a chance at something,

(22:32):
I'm going to work so hard thatthey want me back again. And
they're gonna go Oh, yeah, I getit isn't just because j is this
name. We know what he does. Andhe wants you know, that's,
that's that's my thing in thiswork that we do. Now. I always
say nothing more important thanyour name. You can have a great
you know, press kit and theperfect headshots on. But if you

(22:52):
come in and you're a jerk andyou don't do the job, you're
never getting another chancewith those. So I think is I
believe people want me to comeback is my whole take on it.
Like I may have had a foot inthe door and been lucky and
gotten some things to break myway. There's nobody's gonna
outwork me. Oh,

William Forchion (23:09):
look at I mean, I remember time, our time
in the alley. I had already donethe gold unit in Japan. And then
we worked on the red unittogether. And I mean, you stood
out. You were a white face. Youam there's something. So there's
another thing you talk justtalking about your privilege.
And there the your characterchoice was a white face and a

(23:32):
white face is erudite. It's theupper like of the strata of
clowning. That is the thehighbrow that is, you know, it's
the white face is never the buttof the joke. It's not that
normally typically, yeah, andwrangling it gets a little bit
cloudy, because you can have awhite face that doesn't really

(23:53):
fit the the true, right? Thereare some people who make their
choices. And you go, why did youdo you know, I totally not your
character. And I felt like thatwas your character. Although,
you know, I do have memories andthinking, Man, that dude is, you
know, like, he's was, you know,born with a golden spoon spoon
and sitting on the golden egg.
And that, you know, but there isalso something that was you were

(24:15):
quite humbled in your in yourloftiness because I understand
you did, you did, put the pin inyour own balloon and have your
moments of, I realize that I'mjust full of hot air right now.
And you bring yourself down abit. And it was

Jay Stewart (24:35):
I'll say this bill, thank you for the nice, nice
words. The other thing was, inmy, in my time of development,
which is what I consider mywhole career is development. But
at that point, what I had done,particularly at clown college,
was to say, okay, you know,build a character, just like we

(24:55):
did on stage when we were gonnaplay a role. You know, you had
to you had to find out whatwe're about you could make that
character real. And so I wasbuilding a character. And
somebody said, well look forcharacter references that you
know, would be something thatyou. And what I had always loved
was the dancing frog from thatold Warner Brothers cartoon.

William Forchion (25:14):
Hello, my baby. Hello, my honey, you know,

Jay Stewart (25:16):
and so I thought, I'm gonna be the showman, that's
going to be me. And that's why Iwent that whole white base
elegant look, you know, theykind of steered me towards that
European kind of white facelook. So it was a little off. It
was a little weird looking, Ialways thought, but, but it
helped me to play that sort offlashy thing. I had the sequence
and all that crap. And then as Iwas working, I realized that

(25:38):
where I was getting laughs andthe bread and butter of what I
did, was the slapstick stuff. Iwas actually pretty good at my
level. I didn't take the bigfalls, you did, as I recall,
made of rubber this guy bouncingall over the but

William Forchion (25:54):
now I'm like, I'm paying for it right now. So
just so you know,

Unknown (25:57):
aren't we all?

William Forchion (25:58):
Are we all?

Jay Stewart (25:59):
I'm sure you are more than me. But it's uh, that
was the thing was I realizedthat that's, I can't really do
what I do. In you know, I sortof went the mo Howard route,
because then I could be thesmarter guy. Supposedly, I could
be tougher, and I could stillget into slapstick stuff, but
just be the one throw in theslabs. Right?

William Forchion (26:21):
So you you decided to be the smart idiot?

Jay Stewart (26:26):
Yeah. In the study, you said the strata of the
idiots. The white base usuallythinks he's here when usually
he's actually down here. But butit was it was a phase I would
say for me. When I I left thecircus after a couple years,
went back to school, all thatand I had a chance to do some
other things that reallyinformed who I was and who I was

(26:49):
pitching myself as a performeractually did The Three Stooges
show I don't know if you know, Idid that in Vegas for almost
three years. I was a Moe andLarry impersonator. So all of
that added up. And then I wouldjust say all that was part of
what I did. And then I walkedinto this hospital clowning
thing. I moved to New England.
My wife was from here. And it'sbeen a great choice for me to

(27:14):
live up here. So I said, Hey,we're looking for clowns in the
hospital up there. I was like,oh, a gig for clowns. Okay, I
had heard about the cloudcare. Ididn't really know what it was,
but I knew people, good people Iknew had done it. I was okay. So
I wanted to audition. And then Irealized, Jay, you've got
nothing that is going to walkyou, you've gotten sick. I mean,

(27:36):
honestly, you're not gonna havea pie fight, you're not gonna
knock people down, you're notgonna do anything that you've
spent your entire career doing.
So, what I really had to realizeand register was the only thing
I had, because I wasn't a pocketmagician. I didn't care. I
wasn't really much of a juggler,I didn't carry anything like in

(27:58):
my pockets, that that would workas a thing. I didn't play, you
know, music harmonica or youknow, easily, nothing
transportable. You know, I waslike, right? What am I? What am
I going to do? And I realizedthe only thing that I had was
the character work. I mean, thatwas what I had. That's why I was
a clown to begin with. Notbecause I was a juggler, or

(28:21):
stilt Walker, or any of thosethings that I've added since
then, well, when I what I gotattracted to was the character
work, right. And I said, that'swhat I've got to focus on. I got
to make that my calling cardbecause there's guys on our
team, you know, and have beenover the years who, you know,
it's they're musicians and funnymusicians and in great what they

(28:43):
do, then there's people who aremagicians and funny and clown
magicians, you okay? It'sfantastic what you do there, I
don't do any of that. So thisidea of Jay as the white face,
smart guy, blah, blah. You know,I knew that I couldn't find a
way to make that work bedside,right. Get us and all of that.

(29:06):
And go on to being the stooge,and being back to my days of,
you know, the the physicalcomedy guy. And so I've got some
big hearted, generous partnersthat I work with, who let me be
the stooge. And I'm Les that,you know, my Southern roots. I'm
a bumpkin, you know, from theCarolinas,

William Forchion (29:23):
there's a lot of I mean, there's you've met
you have wrapped up, you're somuch wrapped up in that in how
just your path and where youare. One of the things that
keeps popping up that I keepforgetting to ask is, what is
your the name of your clowndoctor?

Jay Stewart (29:38):
Oh, that's it. That was just saying, I decided when
I started doing this, that whatmade me stand out, up here was
my voice. People would alwayslook at me and go, where are you
from? You know, and so I waslike, Well, I'm a southerner. I
mean, I am. I'm, you know,that's my, that's my history.
And that's my base. So I'm asoutherner. And honestly, if you

(30:03):
want to be the stooge in NewEngland, being a southerner is
like the shortcut to this huge,right?

William Forchion (30:13):
I'm not, I'm not gonna own it, own it.

Jay Stewart (30:17):
I have a master's degree. I'm not as you know, no,
I'm not gonna go that way. If ithelps me get the desired effect.
I'm more than happy to play thestooge. So I my character is,
Doc. Because we all mimic, youknow, medical professional.
Everybody's got a doctor ornurse or whatever name, but I
just went with Doc, and then anickname that you've probably

(30:40):
heard before. Skeeter. Now is agreat clown, Skeeter Reese. Hey,
speeder. That guy, known him fora while. I actually just saw him
a couple years ago, we were inVegas for a reunion and Skeeter
came, it was great. But mygrandmother called me that when
I was a kid that, like you're anannoying little mosquito eater,

(31:02):
you know, and it was and thatwas a term that just kind of
resonated with me and it feltSouthern and it felt like a
annoying little kid, which waswhat I was 10 and so I went with
doc Skeeter. But mostly peoplejust call me Doc, you know,
what's up, Doc? That kind ofthing. So I wear overalls, tool
belt. And I'm actually thehandyman, they always say, you

(31:25):
know what kind of doctor youare. I can't be a doctor all the
time. And I gotta make somemoney. Right? So handyman will
come in, I've got you know,gonna, we got a work order to
fix your door over here. Sorry,we're just gonna, you know, I've
got these fake tools and stuffand we banger but it's a, it's a
framework to use some of thephysical stuff that I enjoy
doing. And so it's characterdriven, if I'm there to fake

(31:48):
hammer, and I go to bang on. Andthen I got a fake thumb. That's
this big. You know, I can dosome of these cheesy bits. For
Kids. You know, I'm not right.
But on the way

William Forchion (32:00):
it's funny because that was one of my
choices of what when I was aclown doctor was I was Dr. Su
bone. And underneath Dr. Subone, it said diesel
maintenance. There you go. Yeah,I would go in and go What what?
diesel maintenance? I just Yeah,I was like, well, I will fit
diesel fix this and diesel fixthat. And yeah, my only tool was

(32:26):
a rawhide dog bone, that. So Iused that as my hammer. That was
a wrench that was my my dogbone.

Jay Stewart (32:35):
I love it. I love it. It was honestly, it was an
easy choice for me to go withthat I had been a maintenance
man, for another gig that wedid. We had a team of performers
in Myrtle Beach for a couple ofyears after we left the circus.

(32:56):
And one of the strollingcharacters I did at some of the
properties that were there washis maintenance guy. So I had
the safety orange, you know, andthe cap and all thing. But
everything I'm covered in bandaids and finger splint, given
the safety lecture to people, asI wrap myself in the head with a
hammer, and so that was that wassort of transporting what was

(33:19):
successful about that in thisactor character. But like I said
earlier, it's all indevelopment, and it changes door
to door, you know what I mean? Imean, in some rooms, I'm
actually the, the, I'm the lead,or whatever you call them, that
I'm the high status guy, youknow, it changes depending on
the moment. And then and thenthe thing, and that's when you

(33:41):
know, you're working withsomebody and you're really
attuned of what's going on. Youknow, not only for the patient
and the family and many of thestaff, but also your partner,
you know, that the give andtake, you have to have with the
partner to be able to make thatthing, that little visit that
little, four or five minutesthat you're in there, like you

(34:02):
said earlier to make that bethat magical thing. But as you
exit, you leave on a high noteand those kids are laughing or
they're at least you know, we'redepending on where they are
physically there. They'reengaged, and they're, they're
going to talk about a cup, butthat being talked about it being
the shimmer, yeah, after youleave, a lot of times we'll get
people, members of our team tocome in and street clothes, and

(34:26):
just follow or maybe go into awaiting room ahead of us and sit
down. And then we wait a coupleminutes and then we come in and
they get chance to see theeffect that actually they have,
you know, because people youknow, when you're doing it, you
don't necessarily see. So wecall it shadowing. So on a
shadowing day, you get a chanceto go in and watch to other

(34:48):
people work. And you know, itcan be in some ways frustrating.
Oh, they missed that bid. Iwould have done this, you know,
you're like critiquing but atthe same time he's the response.
Other people? Because I can'ttell you how many times bill,
you've probably heard it twopeople say, clowns in the
hospital. But But aren't youlike in the way, aren't you

(35:09):
like, distract? And I canunderstand why people say that.
But what they don't understandis anybody who's there needs a
laugh. One thing, anybody whowalks in that building probably
needs a laugh. But also, I don'tthink even the families and
stuff even know how much theyneed something that is not

(35:32):
medical. At that moment.

William Forchion (35:34):
Yeah. There's also something that was said,
and I think it was a doctor whosaid it. He said, everyone who
is the folks who are here, don'twant to be here, right? There's
the only ones. And when theclowns are here, the only ones
who actually want to be here arethe clowns. And what you what
the clowns get to do is changethat shift that for everyone,

(35:58):
for doctors, nurses, attendants,maintenance people, everyone who
we are in touch with, becausewe're purposefully there, not to
treat not just to be there. Andwe transform that and there are
people that I encountered duringmy time in the hospitals, who
knew which days we were in whichhospitals, and were there, they

(36:21):
would make sure that they werevisiting whoever, or they're on
those days. So they get amoment, a spark of that some of
that glimmer, just just by us,just catching a glimpse of us
coming out of an elevator orwalking down a hall, not because
they're going to be in a roomwith us. Right? Also, how it
changes in that room is that youhave you know, we're mainly

(36:41):
dealing with the kids, but tohave a kid who, who is looking
forward to a moment in thehospital, because it's not a
poke, prod anything move. It'sjust another moment, a moment in
the hospital. And a moment inwhich you know what the doctors,
that's one thing you don't wantis you don't want to show up and
get surprised by what's going tohappen next. Right. Whereas when

(37:03):
the clouds walk in, you kind ofwant to be surprised by what's
going to happen next.

Jay Stewart (37:09):
Yeah, it's great.
And you touched on somethingthat I always say is that I look
at that nose, that we were theclown nose. And so some of the
people that's pretty much allthey were, I mean, they don't
wear a lot of makeup, not likewe did, no white faces, none of
that, you know, it's veryminimalist, much warmer, because
it's up close. You know, youdon't need all that because
you're not trying to reach theback of an arena. You're just

(37:30):
trying to be a close, but thatknows is an invitation to play.

William Forchion (37:43):
I want to ask you a question before we get
done. And we're talking aboutthe laughter league. We talked
about Ringling Brothers, wetalked about you going to
college getting your master'sdegree. What I want to dig up
some dirt here, what role Whatpart? What in your career? Did
you take on that job that youwere like, oh, my goodness, this

(38:04):
is like, every day of work islike I surgery. I don't want to
be here. And you know it? Didyou have a part of your career?
That man that was like that?

Jay Stewart (38:15):
I do. You know, I always say that I wouldn't
change any of the decisions thatI made along the route, because
it all made me who I am. Butsome of them were because you
learn what you don't want to do.
Right? Yeah, no, it's not. Youlearn more from failure than
from success. That's an oldsaying I think it's true. I will
say that. I spent one year whileI went back to college to finish

(38:39):
my master's degree. I spent thatyear the way we say it is under
the arches. Oh, yes. Yeah. And Ispent one year doing that gig in
North Carolina, while I finishedmy degree at Wake Forest.

William Forchion (39:00):
If I wait, hold on, if I may. I'm gonna
give a little bit more of ahint. Yeah. I'm not gonna give
it away. But it was a clown in acorporate setting. Exactly.
International. Oh, yeah. Roll.
Yeah.

Jay Stewart (39:17):
And there's people out there who will tell you that
that is the that was thegreatest gig in the whole world
for them. For me, I had a verydifferent experience, and it was
not good. And I if I had wantedto dedicate, you know, five to
10 years to build that up intosomething, it may have become
that I know people who, you knowthat that corporate clown thing

(39:39):
kind of went away recently,right? For a multitude of
reasons, but one of which wasthe whole scary clown thing. And
I felt lucky at the time to getin. And then once I started
doing I realized that it Itwasn't a character that I had
any connection to it wasn't achance for For me to grow, it

(40:01):
was really restrictive.

William Forchion (40:05):
Now we've been chatting here for quite a bit,
and I, we haven't even covered.
So much of your experience, I'mgonna have to have you back on
here we're gonna talk about thestuff, we're gonna have to get
deep into philosophical ideasand opinions about the clowning
and, and performance, physicaltheater, physical comedy, I
mean, there's so much more thatwe can we can talk about, what I
like to ask is, and I like Ididn't even do many my plugs, my

(40:30):
mid roll my enroll. So I will dosome of that, at the end. What I
want to ask is, in your life, soyou have, you've had a life
you've lived, you've had thisexperience and a lot of
experiences. If you could goback to your younger self, at
any age, and give yourself someadvice with the knowledge that

(40:53):
you have now, what would yougive? What advice would you give
your younger selves self?

Jay Stewart (41:00):
I've actually been asked this before, and I had to
give it some thought. And soyou're gonna benefit from that.
From that time spent, I wouldsay to myself have some
competence, because I felt Ispent a lot of time feeling like
I had a lot to prove. And I feltlike, in my early high school,

(41:26):
college, early days, I felt likeI had to work harder than
anybody else to achieveanything. And I'm not saying
that that hasn't benefited me,in a lot of ways, because it
has, but I think I probablycould have had a little more
competence and understood thatthings didn't have to be a fight

(41:47):
to make it right. You know, Ithought a lot of times, I had to
prove I was the funniest guy inthe room. And I was operating it
at this level all the time. Andas I've gotten older, and I've
now I just I look back at that,and I go, boy, I I wasted a lot
of brain energy and room in myin my head, feeling like I had

(42:11):
something to prove that yoursign back there I am enough.
That speaks to me. Because therewas a lot of time that I didn't
feel that that was true for me.
I felt like I needed to besomething more than what I am.
And so if I could convincemyself of those days, if I could
go back to that guy and go, Hey,J come here, and really tell him

(42:33):
that and convince him of that. Ithink that other things would be
easier for me as I as I wentforward. But at the same time,
I'm sure a lot of people look atthe stuff I've had a chance to
do. And I'm like, oh,everything's easy for J. And
it's like, well, on the outside,it always looks like that. You
never know what's going on.
Somebody told no. Yes. You know,and so that's the thing is that

(42:56):
I go that confidence to say I'menough, would have helped me a
lot, right. And Ed, I came insort of very competitive and
very, you know, skeptical andseeing people as as competition,

(43:16):
but it is the thing that I lookback on now. And I think of
specific instances and I go, youknow, if I just calm down a
little bit, much easier, youknow, this to get something
done, you know? So it's it'slife lessons that time teaches
you and all that stuff that youhear it's true, you know, Time

(43:37):
heals all wounds and timeteaches lessons.

William Forchion (43:40):
Now I'm going to ask you one of the questions.
You're the first one, I'm askingthis question in my new series
of questioning. We are in atough times we're in right now.
There's a lot of unrest. There'sa lot of civil unrest, there's a
lot of political unrest. Andwithout getting into politics
without even getting into any,you are now thrust. So imagine
you are thrust into a positionof leadership you are taking

(44:03):
over. And you're leading thisnation and maybe even larger, so
I don't know, director of theUN. In your leadership role.
What do you see is a way ofuniting us again, how do we
resolve the issues that we're,we're facing?

Jay Stewart (44:21):
You know, Bill, that's an awesome question. And
obviously, if I had the perfectABCD answer for that, I would
not be sitting here in mybasement doing this with you.
I'd probably be you know,helping in the real world. But
it seems to me that what whatwhat would help is if there was

(44:45):
a way to propose a way to havepeep this. Whenever I've been in
charge of some kind of grouplike say boss clown on Ringling
or run on our trip in MyrtleBeach or now with the laughter
like this that there has to beequity and equality among the
people, they all have to feelthat they're working towards a

(45:06):
goal that we're all going tobenefit by pulling together.
There's no way that our team,the laughter league is going to
have the effect that it canhave. If there's infighting, and
people who meet, there's alwaysgoing to be some people who
don't really get along. But theyhave to put the The goal of the

(45:26):
team first. And I think our guysdo our clowns do that. And then
on Ringling, we did it to anextent, our team and Myrtle
Beach was great. We had peoplewho were really dug in and
wanted to wanted to make thething go and make it, you know,
real. So I think my thing isbuild ensemble, you have to
build ensemble, you have to makepeople feel important and feel

(45:49):
like their contribution is asgood. As you know, from my old
days of being the stooge onstage, I got to feel as
important as the lead guy, youknow, right. So lessons there,
that I would need to really workin my head and extrapolate
forward. But there has to bethat feeling of coming together,
as opposed to always looking forwhat divides. And I, like I

(46:13):
said, If I had the answer tothat, I'd probably be writing
books and be much more famousthan, than some of the people
who are in office. Now.

William Forchion (46:23):
I think you just gave a really, I mean, it's
clear. It's simple. It's simple.
That's

Jay Stewart (46:31):
a great quote. That I think helps. I think it was
Eisenhower, President Eisenhowersaid, an effective leader takes
all the blame when things gowrong, and gives away all the
credit. When things go well, italways comes back. Really Any

(46:52):
question? Any any thing that youcan talk about, like that? goes
back to humanity and being humanand being somebody who's able to
write well,

William Forchion (47:01):
right? Yeah,

Jay Stewart (47:03):
if you can be welcoming and open and, and that
shouldn't be restricted by anyoutside element you want to put
on it.

William Forchion (47:12):
Mj Stewart, I just want to say thank you so
much. Like I said, we could goon and on and on for this is
going to be one of the longestpodcast I know. Because there's
so much juice, a juicy here tochew on,

Jay Stewart (47:25):
people will be hanging up on this.

William Forchion (47:28):
I don't want to hear that guy anymore. Yeah.
Jay Stewart, thank you so muchfor joining me on the philosophy
podcast. It has been an absolutepleasure. I'm so glad to have
you in the fold of my life, andmy professional career. And just
to be connected with you, andthank you so much for joining
us.

Jay Stewart (47:46):
Bill, you've got a huge heart. And I love you. And
thank you for inviting me tothis. And I, I know some of what
you do, and that you you know,you just want to find some
sanity in the world and unityand Let's be together. And I
love that and I love you for it.
So So call me anytime. But I'llcome back.

William Forchion (48:07):
Thank you.
This is the Billosophy one ohone podcast. If you like what
you see, and you want to getmore of this, please, you can
subscribe, you can become aPatreon patron and help make
this possible. Because this isall produced. This is my house,
what you're hearing is carnoises because I no longer have
my studio setup that I hadbefore. This is all from my
heart from because I want toshare my friends with the world

(48:29):
I want to share some amazingpeople that I've encountered in
my travels with the world. Soonce again, you can you can be a
Patreon patron at Billosophy 101or William Forchion. I don't
know which one it is. You canalso find the podcast wherever
you find podcasts. You can alsoif you don't want to go through
Patreon you can just plain sendme money through Venmo or for

(48:49):
cash app using Billosophy one ohone. And remember, just remember
this move forward with passionand purpose. every morning and
every night. Look at yourself inthe mirror and say I am enough
because you are enough. Thankyou so much for joining me here
today. Billosophy family.

Jay Stewart (49:13):
Thank you, Bill.

Intro Voice (49:21):
Thank you for listening to the Billosophy
podcast. Keep checking in as wewill be regularly releasing new
episodes.
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