February 25, 2021 • 36 mins
Hey World, meet renaissance man, Joel Kaemmerlen.
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Intro Voice (00:05):
Welcome to a place where we're thinking together
and thinking deeper about who weare. Welcome to the philosophy
podcast.
Joel Kaemmerlen (00:18):
Hello, good morning. How are you? Sounds
good. Oh, I can I can send.
William Forchion (00:24):
Welcome to the philosophy podcast. I'm William
Forchion. And today, my guestis...
Joel Kaemmerlen (00:31):
I am Joel Kaemmerlen. And I am a
renaissance maniac.
William Forchion (00:36):
a renaissance man, that's a great
Joel Kaemmerlen (00:39):
better than a renaissa nce manequin, which I
have been before
William Forchion (00:42):
I ran into Joel. The first time I was
working at a hardware store andthis guy, we started talking
about something and then standup comedy came up. And we both
do stand up comedy, which Iwould say, wait a minute, this
guy, bear with me. This guy'spretty square. And he's doing
stand up comedy.
Intro Voice (01:04):
me.
William Forchion (01:07):
But you have a lot of other really cool
interests. And we're gonna getinto stand up comedy as well. I
like where does your money comefrom? How do you know what made
you just jump into that? BecauseI also so I was hosting and it
got shut down really quickly dueto the the, the stay at home
shelter in place orders that areout there. And we couldn't do
(01:29):
any longer or an audience. I wasrunning a once monthly stand up
comedy open mic. And the firstone I did I actually used Joel's
talents, for better for lack ofa better phrase. So tell tell me
a little, a little bit aboutyour background in getting into
(01:50):
stand up comedy. And where doesthat come from?
Joel Kaemmerlen (01:53):
That's a good question. I'm not sure where
where it comes from. It'sprobably universal, you know,
that it comes from some sort ofsome sort of personal anguish
and the release that comedy hasfrom it. I i've, because I've
been pursuing comedy a lot I'vebeen thinking about, you know,
(02:13):
why we do it. And, you know,what inclines us as people to to
accommodate. And I think a lotof ways it's the release valve
for tension for situations and Ifound that humor is especially
pivotal in my relationships withother people if navigating
through things that might beuncomfortable, or unpleasant,
(02:34):
that there's that that releaseof stepping back from it and
finding humor in it and beingreleased from maybe the
emotional tension that's causedby I don't know what what got me
into stand up comedy other thanmy admiration for other stand up
comics, and just the pleasurethat I found from performance in
general. It's something that Icraved doing for a long time and
(02:56):
finally mustered up the cajonesto get up there and give it a
shot.
William Forchion (03:01):
Now, one of the things that a lot of stand
up comics talk about is a is whothey who they looked up to who
they emulated resinated.
Joel Kaemmerlen (03:08):
Yeah.
William Forchion (03:08):
First of all, who who do you did you resonate
with? And who do you most seeyourself? Like?
Joel Kaemmerlen (03:14):
It's a question. Um, there's, there's a
lot of comics who influenced melike from my childhood on. I
think sketch comedy was reallymy first love before doing stand
up, but there's definitely somecrossover there. So I was too
young, when Saturday Night Livewas really in its heyday. But I
(03:37):
remember getting the EddieMurphy, the best of Eddie Murphy
Saturday Night Live on VHS as akid. And then getting into his
stand up comedy, some of hisearlier stuff raw and delirious,
things like that. So other thankind of the 1950s style of stand
(03:58):
up comedy that started evolvingin the one liners. As I got
older, I really got into BillHicks. That was really an eye
opening experience for me when Iwas a teenager and I was feeling
especially rebellious. And a lotof that intellectual leftist
rebellion spoke to mesignificantly. And I'm a huge
(04:22):
fan of Maria Bamford. Andthere's just too many to name
William Forchion (04:26):
When I listened to your work when I
when you when I want to ply yourtrade. I'm right right. I feel
like I've just been transportedto the Catskills or you're off
you know, like, I could justimagine you in a room doing the
borscht circuit or just becauseyou have a really dry delivery.
(04:50):
And but you do contrast that byI mean you have a great bit of
contrast. I love your sets inthat they do have they start off
really dry and they just rev upJust like they're there, you
don't see them coming at you.
And then you know they're onyou. And it's it's, it's a it's
really neat.
Joel Kaemmerlen (05:07):
And that that kind of reminds me a lot of my
my father, I think I got a lotof my comic sense from him
because my, my father has a verydry sense of humor, but he knows
what's funny. So he'll betelling this hysterical story
and just hitting all the pointswith it and barely cracking a
(05:28):
smile, and it makes it all thatmuch funnier. Remember, actually
reading he read this book to mewhen I was a kid is called
Danny, the champion of theworld, which was a book by Roald
Dahl, about a father and son wholived together and a dad gets
the Son into poaching pheasants.
It's a really funny story. Andthere's this detail in that book
(05:48):
about how the father neversmiles. But instead, when he's
smiling, he twinkles in his eye,and how a lot of people can fake
a smile, but you can't fake. Andwhen my father tells us wry
stories, if he doesn't smilewhen he has that twinkle in his
eye, just like in that book, andI think that I picked up a lot
(06:09):
of my sense from him, and youdefinitely do see it in my stand
up. And I it's not like I wasable to do it for very long
before this COVID mess came. Sothere's still a lot to develop.
But to answer your previousquestion, I I see the style that
been working now it's a lotresembling of patent Oswald's
earlier stuff like that. I thinkthat listening to a lot of those
(06:33):
albums, were also lollipops andfeeling kind of had. And those
had a pretty profound influenceon my writing style as a comic.
Because I do as a writer, Ireally have come to enjoy the
rewriting process and trying tohash something out. And then as
(06:54):
you see in my stand up, I'lljust take a bit and I'll just
double down and triple down andquadruple down and just keep
developing until it descendsinto complete madness.
William Forchion (07:03):
Right, and it's funny, because doing stand
up, which I am also new to I'veonly been at it for a couple
years, although I've wanted todo it for over 40 years. Yeah,
you are, we have a verydifferent style, I will say I'll
run through my head a lot, Ibarely write down anything. And
then I, I just I improv, I justkind of go I know where I'm
heading to, I don't know how I'mgetting there. But I know I'm
(07:25):
heading and I go for it. And youare really meticulous you have
worked out you have you have somuch of it sculpted already. And
then you allow it to shape infront of an audience and then
you try it again. And you workit some more until you I mean
you're like a fine art sculpturewith your work. And it and it
(07:46):
shows because I watched you overa couple of sessions take a
pieces that have developed andthey develop beautifully. And I
appreciate that and expand inwhat you do. Now, I want to I
have to there's a two roads herethat we can take one is taking
(08:06):
how this is shaping other thingsthat you're doing. And the other
one is going backwards and andlike just where did you Where
did you come from? What planetare you from? Where did you get
like where did you grow up? Whatwas what was home life like?
Because as you said there's alot of the comedy that when we
look instead of comics there's alot of comics who are their
(08:28):
comedy is developed from NXP isdeveloped from kind of hardship
and there's an inner turmoilthat they're working through
that make that comes out asfunny yet within the the Cesar
are dark and dank and they'reroiling. Right, well, but the
funny comes out. So tell us alittle bit about where you come
from. You're growing up Sure.
Joel Kaemmerlen (08:48):
Yeah. Or or what's funny is a lot of people
think that they're being funny.
And that's a situation by forsome people, other people also
think it's funny when theydemonstrate that anguish, you
know, right, for some peoplethat can come out as some as a
lot of vitriol, you know,whereas others it can be a
bonding experience whereeveryone is released from that,
which is really interesting.
(09:11):
Yeah, and it's it's interesting,like how one can take something
like mania and it can be thisincredible fuel to the fire but
you know, you get gasoline tooclose to your your bonfire and
you end up self sabotaging withthat same energy. So I was born
in New Hampshire, and I lived ina few different towns before
(09:34):
moving to Western Mass when Iwas six years old, and I lived
there for my entire education.
So in kindergarten throughcollege, and when I got to
Worcester, I went to a privatereligious school, went to a
Solomon Schechter day school.
And my I think the biggest classI ever had was maybe like 10
(09:56):
other students. So it wasdefinitely a bubble, a social
bubble. And there is a realcontrast, I think, between the
teachers who appreciated myintensity, and who I found
refuge with, and those who werekind of mainline hardcore, very
(10:16):
rigid, which just did not flyvery well with me. And I think
in a lot of ways, gave me a kneejerk reaction to authority in
general that has, unfortunatelysabotage some of some of the
relationships I had withauthority going on in my youth
before I was
William Forchion (10:33):
Were you the class clown?
Joel Kaemmerlen (10:36):
I was definitely described as weird,
you know, like, I'm not sure.
It's so complicated to try todisseminate the your social
relationship when the class iseight kids, right now you're
kind of, you're trapped, and youkind of need each other. So you
can't effectively be a pariahfor very long because people are
(11:00):
stuck with you.
William Forchion (11:02):
Right
Joel Kaemmerlen (11:03):
I was never, I was never a pariah. But I'm not
I'm not really sure what myidentity was, I was known for
being a goofball. But a classclown would be hyperbole.
William Forchion (11:15):
Right. Okay.
No, and that's a, you know, oneof those common questions. And
what I'm really floored at, isthat very few people who do
adventure into comedy, areactually the class clown. Most
of us are where we're sittingback and thinking through
things, or a lot of us werethinking, thinking it through
and, and really understandingthe relationship between words
and people and all that stuff.
(11:37):
And then it eventually came outas the the comedy thing.
Joel Kaemmerlen (11:42):
Yeah. And there's people who suffer from
social anxiety who get up onstage and do the scariest thing
you can do, which is, you know,up there. Right, stand up
comedy.
William Forchion (11:51):
Where did you go to college?
Joel Kaemmerlen (11:53):
So after I got out of that day school, I went
to a pretty rough high school.
It was not the high school thatwas close to the private school,
where a lot of the kids that Ihad been in school with for nine
years, we're going, I went up toburncoat, Senior High in North
End, Western, which was, yeah,like, had a lot of kids that
(12:15):
were from tough projects. Andwhen I went to shadow there, I
just saw that there were so manypeople who didn't look like me,
and who didn't act like me. Andit was so appealing after being
stuck at Solomon chapter fornine years to branch out. And I
went there. And then, you know,I did well academically, but I
(12:36):
had, I still had my brush inswith the administration, with
the hardcore people who justdidn't appreciate any true
creativity, they just wanted youto kind of jump through the
hoops and be an automaton,essentially. And so I left
there, I went to college for mysenior year of high school at
Worcester State. So I went toClark University for four years
(12:56):
afterwards, but I had alreadybeen in college for a year when
I went there. I kind of regretmissing out on my senior year,
but it was also it was just timeto get out of there. And I had
some good times. I mean, it'scollege.
William Forchion (13:12):
So I'm just gonna take a moment here and
just say that if you're justjoining, I am in conversation
with Joel Kaemmerlen, who hasbeen sharing about stand up
comedy, and we're at his how itgot to where he is right now.
And we're heading towards hisother interests and his other
loves and passions in life. Ihave worked with Joel, we've
(13:35):
done some stand up together. Andwe've done other projects
together, which we'll get intolater. So back to where we were,
we were so you got to college,what did you study? And then did
you know what you're going todo?
Joel Kaemmerlen (13:47):
I studied sociology. And eventually what
happened was, one of the thingsin the background that really
got me into doing stand up wasperformance in general. I got
into community theater when Iwas an adolescent, and did that
through high school. And thatwas really my passion. I wanted
to be an actor. That's what Iwanted. And my grandparents were
really generous. They were theywere footing the bill for what
(14:11):
my scholarships didn't pay for,for college, but they had no
interest in sending another oneof their kids to an art school.
They had done that before andlearn their lesson. And so I
ended up going to ClarkUniversity because it was close
to my martial arts school at thetime. I was I'm not sure if I
(14:32):
started running classes when Iwas admitted into court, but I
did. I did. I was runningclasses. By the time I was a
freshman. And that was reallywhat what held me there and I've
lost my train of thought it wasfine. It took me way so many
things, but martial arts is oneof the things that I got really
William Forchion (14:51):
Wh at form martial arts did you did you
train?
Joel Kaemmerlen (14:53):
so that it's Taekwondo than kung fu and I
studied at another kung fuschool a few years ago, for A
few years, okay, so mostly KungFu. But fortunately, the
Taekwondo gave me a really goodfoundation for my kicks, because
that's what they're awesome at.
William Forchion (15:09):
And as a stand up comic you need that you need
that.
Joel Kaemmerlen (15:12):
Hey man,. Yeah.
You never know when your hipflexors will come in handy when
someone bum rushes you, becauseyou've offended there were
too many.
William Forchion (15:24):
You've got you've got another tool for
handling hecklers. There you go.
Joel Kaemmerlen (15:26):
Be prepared at all times.
William Forchion (15:30):
All right. So one of the other things that you
are doing is you are writing.
Currently, you're working on apodcast, which is I want to say
it's, it's unusual, but thereare so many different kinds of
podcasts out there. Your podcastis more like a old time radio
show. Yeah, but it's sketchcomedy. It's got right.
(15:52):
commercials. Yeah. Tell me.
Joel Kaemmerlen (15:56):
It's, you know, it is it's hard to describe what
the show is. But yeah, I wantedto do an old time radio show
that kind of descended into asketch comedy show. That's,
that's utter madness, and hasbeen an absolute pleasure to
work on. I just can't put enoughblessings on all the people who
I've managed to recruit into theshow with their talent. It's
(16:21):
been it's been a reallywonderful experience. And we've
been working on it for about ayear and a half now. Slowly
chipping away at it and gettingthe pilot ready. And it's
happening. So yeah, that'sreally exciting.
William Forchion (16:34):
Please tell us what the name of that podcast
is. And then if you can give alittle overview of what it looks
like, you know, what makes thispodcast stand out from in the
podcast verse.
Joel Kaemmerlen (16:48):
So, the name of the show is Christmas Wolf,
which is kind of a strange namethat came about because it came
about for a few reasons. One isthat when they were still video
stores around I don't know ifyou remember that back in the
day, but me and my wife werelooking at the movies and
noticed what an influx ofmovies, they were about dogs
(17:11):
saving Christmas. And at anotherpoint, I was talking with my
good friend, Josh, who is apivotal member of the show, and
I was talking about how I'm moreof a Christmas, wolf. And it was
looking back on my childhood,because my mom's side is Jewish,
and my father and his Christian,we were practicing Jews, and we
(17:34):
would go to their house tocelebrate Christmas. And it was
like, This is Christmas. Andit's awesome. But you can't have
it. It's not really for you. Theidea of being an outsider, I
think it's pivotal to the showthat it appeals to people who
are a bit on the fringes, it'soffbeat humor. It's dark, and
mixes horror with with comedy.
But the show also has a lot ofheart. There's definitely
moments where we're leaning moretowards comedy and having
(17:57):
characters with real substanceand beauty to them with the
comedy still in there. So we'retrying to cover a lot of bases
with it. And I think that we'redoing a good job with it.
William Forchion (18:09):
You have mentioned Josh, and if I may, or
Josh Cunningham
Joel Kaemmerlen (18:13):
He's my best buddy,
William Forchion (18:14):
who you guys go back a bit because you you
were doing stuff before becauseyou had worked on a radio show.
If I'm not incorrect. And thetwo of you had worked together
on that, can you tell me aboutthat? And did work from the
radio show? help shape yourstand up or the podcast that
(18:38):
you're?
Joel Kaemmerlen (18:39):
Yeah, that entirely. I mean, that was
really the whole drawing boardfor what we're doing right now.
And learning from our successesand our mistakes and what we
needed to do to take things tothe next level. So this show
originally started with me doingit myself, and it was called
muskrat repair services, whichwas based on a sketch where two
(19:01):
reoccurring characters who run aradio show have guests on and
everything goes wrong inhilarious ways. The first guest
was Larry Donahue, the owner ofmuskrat repair services, who is
an incredibly certainly man whois asked to leave about three
minutes into the interview. Andthat's where most credit repair
services comes from. And it wasan old it was an old idea of
(19:25):
mine back when I was working inkitchen about muskrat repair and
I would leave I would leavemessages on my my phone
voicemails for people to leaveit to for the business. I'm not
sure where it came about, but itjust it stuck around God bless.
And so I ended up recording anumber of sketches all with my
(19:47):
own voices and intermeshingthings over and and after a
while Josh got interested and westarted writing scripts together
and started doing things andthen we kind of burned out on
it. It was. We were doing it atwV w here in Brattleboro, the
local radio station. And we hadto come up with a cue for music
(20:10):
and plan shows, in addition toall the comedy stuff, and it
just became unsustainable withtwo people to keep it up. And so
we took a break. Andfortunately, in the last few
years, I've gotten back intocommunity theater pretty
heavily, been in almost everyshow of it, the Guilford Grange,
and the few other of themillions of theatre companies
(20:33):
here in Vermont. And Josh hasalso been in a number of shows
with me in the and going throughthe different productions, I've
met a lot of really talentedpeople that I recruited for the
show to do voice acting. Andwhat's really cool is some of
them have also gotten intowriting where they never did
(20:55):
before. And it's been reallyawesome to create a supportive,
ego free environment in whichpeople can develop skills they
might not otherwise havepursued. And also to provide a
break for some creative peoplelike Anders Burroughs is a
really talented musician, but hewanted to do acting for this.
(21:16):
Fortunately, he's also a verytalented actor. So it's nice to
give some creative people abreak from what they're doing
for money, trying to doprofessionally and make it as
fun as possible for everyone.
William Forchion (21:29):
Right. One of the other things, which I also
think is pretty unique, is withhaving been seen the inner
workings of what you're doingwith Christmas, Wolf, is that
it's it employs the whole thewriters room concept is that you
come up with a you have atemplate, or you throw out some
you're writing your script, andthen everyone is a table read.
(21:51):
And then there's room foradditions and subtractions. Not
always because you are the czarthat you because I've I've
actually seen this process. AndI think it's really a neat
process. And it doesn't theensemble component, I think is
really important to how each ofthe pieces develops, even when
(22:14):
some so your ensemble may notalways have a say in, in making
changes. But they do have a sayin developing the characters.
And I have seen where they havehad SES in the developing of the
piece after it's been written oryou've given them the structure
of the bones of it. So can youtalk a little bit about that?
Joel Kaemmerlen (22:34):
Sure. The process that like what's the
process of actually like makingsomething like this? Yeah, I
really tried to give people alot of credence and leeway to
try different things and allowpeople to make whatever
suggestions and there have beentimes where there's been
consensus between a number ofpeople there about something
that I'm not really on boardwith, but it seems that people
(22:57):
are strongly enough for ittogether, that they have a
better idea of where somethingshould go. And I think that's
it's part of the creativeprocess, whether you're writing
by yourself or with otherpeople, too. Even if you really
like something, and you're like,Oh, that's that's funny, our
whole man, that's smart, that Ilove this character. If it's not
(23:21):
working for the piece itself,it's not working for that thing,
you got to ditch it, and you gotto let it go. And so that's
really a lot of the process of,you know, working together on
something as is everyone puttingin their two cents about? What
should this get out of here?
Like, do we need to develop thisplatform. And what that looks
(23:41):
like on a meeting basis ispretty varied. So some, the same
person who wrote a script, theother week, might come up with
an idea but have no interest inwriting the script and hand it
off to someone else, or someonewho thought they were going to
be involved in one respectbecomes involved more than
(24:02):
another. And that's, that'sreally cool to see. Because
people have different strengths,and different leanings and
giving everyone the opportunity.
So there's no real clear way toconvey exactly how you know what
the process is because it tendsto change. But usually, it's
just someone someone findssomething really funny. It's,
(24:23):
it's a scenario That's funny.
It's a character. That'shilarious. And there's some
there's some little thing and itjust catches it's like a it's
it's like a flick of a matchthat hits the Tinder in the
right race and everyone you canjust see everyone light up and
go that is funny, like, what dowe do with that? And then
throwing the ideas around thetable until we start developing
and then someone will do acharacter voice and kind of, you
(24:46):
know, go back and forth and asas a group together, we just
were trying to figure out what'sactually funny about it, right.
Once we figure that out, you'vewrite a first draft and that
first draft doesn't need to beGood, needs to be finished.
Right? And when you when youhave meat to work with, right
rewrite it until it's right,
William Forchion (25:08):
when you're working through the process,
because not everybody knows whatthis process is. And and
actually quite a few peopledon't know this process. Do you
hear the voices in your head? Doyou? Are you like, a little, you
know, are you? Are thecharacters actually coming
alive? Or are you? Are yousitting there worrying?
Joel Kaemmerlen (25:27):
Completely and for me, it's, you know, you
describe me as meticulous in mywriting. And that's, that's
definitely how it is, I can hearall the timing, I can hear the
tone, I can hear all of it, it'sall clear as day in my head when
I'm writing it, especially whenit's a good script. Because I
can get really set on that andbe meticulous, I understand that
(25:49):
enough to when I'm bringing thescript to people for the first
time, or the second or even thethird, I really try not to
provide any of that direction, Itry not to get too attached with
what's going on in my head.
Because when you're working withother people, they bring
brilliance that you just don'thave to the table, they're going
to have a different take on acharacter that's going to maybe
it's not going to work, but alot of times it provides
(26:12):
something that's like absolutegold that I didn't even see and
couldn't have. So that's that'sreally
William Forchion (26:21):
that was my follow up on that was Have you
had where you had a clear voicein your head of a character, and
then someone reading thatcharacter, and they're taking it
in a very different direction.
And you're just like, no, haveyou had the chance times where
you've needed to just steer themback to this is how I hear it,
and draw a line read of whatthat is.
Joel Kaemmerlen (26:42):
Definitely. And I and I'm trying to find the
right equilibrium with withactors, you know, where, because
some people really want a freerein, some people really want a
lot of guidance. And sometimesthe opposite is good, if it's
gentle, and it's just a matterof, you know, figuring out that
(27:02):
process together of wheresomeone's at, where they where
they're at their optimum levelof having those reins pulled in
or being let go. And it's beenreally fun to see and support
people. Because it's creating asa as a process you what works
(27:23):
for you one year changes anotheryou you become better you
develop.
William Forchion (27:28):
And well. So where we're at right now, the
reason why we're doing thisinterview and with this process
right now is that normally Iwhen I started doing the
interviews, it was person toperson, we'd be in the same
place, but now we're in right.
We're social distancing. And,and we so times have changed and
which has meant a differentplatform. You're I mean, this,
it's great that you're doing apodcast because you don't need a
(27:51):
large audience to be in the roomwhen you're doing that. Where do
you see this? How do you see thebusiness changing the the whole
entertainment industry ischanging, and where you're
poised with what you're doing?
Do you see where we're comingout to? Do you have any idea of
what might be ahead?
Joel Kaemmerlen (28:12):
I think that we're all just stuck in
speculation right now. And evenpeople who are insiders who are
much more deeply connected withthe industry would still be
giving you a pretty widespectrum of Gamble's on this, we
could use someone who's youngand hungry. Right now. I just
picture some scraggly, 24 yearold who's sick, who knows all
(28:35):
the social media platforms,because the amount of work that
goes into post production, asyou know, is incredibly
demanding. And in addition tostill working a job, thank God,
you know, doing, trying tryingto build an exorcism that's
taking place in an auditoriumwith all sorts of people making
(28:58):
reactions and making thatbelievable is not a simple
process, especially when thesketch is 14 minutes long. So
yeah, it's that's something thatwe're we've been talking about a
lot lately and trying to thinkand
William Forchion (29:15):
I would say that's also something that
that's come up is that you'renot creating uniform packages.
So each of your writings are youcreating a like so the finished
product. Since it's not doneyet. I'm asking speculatively is
are you putting out a half hourshow? Are you putting out a 15
minute show? Or are you justputting out skits going out
(29:37):
whatever length it is a sevenminute a five minute, a 20
minute skit? How is that how yourolling out this? And partly
because I would like to know itpartly because I think that
listeners who are thinkingoutside the box or creating
innovative stuff might be goingoh yeah, there's validity into
my doing it that way as well.
Joel Kaemmerlen (29:58):
It is such an honor interesting topic, because
we are living in an era wheretelevision and movies and media
has changed a lot and the howlong something runs and and and
how it's released has becomeincredibly nuanced. And it's
(30:19):
been an interesting debate withwith everyone as to what's the
best thing to do. And theconclusion I came to is, what
we're trying to do right now isreally nail down this pilot and
make it a really great portfolioof what the show has to offer.
With that said, there is a pileof scripts about that thick,
(30:39):
waiting to be recorded and madeinto episodes, we have so much
material that's already beenrewritten and written, it's
ready to go. And how we're goingto divide that, I think that
that pilots probably going to be40 minutes, and that 40 minutes
is going to be longer than theaverage episode that most of
them will be shorter than that.
But it's really going to be amatter of where how they're put
(31:02):
together. So I do not see ushaving a standard time for
episodes, I see them as I'm hardpressed to think of some other
shows that I've seen do this,but there's going to be some
variants there, there will beshows that are 12 to 15 minutes
long, there will be ones thatare 23 minutes long. There'll be
(31:24):
ones that are 40 minutes long.
We have long scripts, we haveshort scripts. So right. There
will be rewards for those whocontinue listening that way, but
those who might jump around,
William Forchion (31:40):
right? All right. Well, Joel, it's been
great chatting with you. So oneof the things I always think of
is, you got the younger youwho's sitting back there going
Hmm, I'm thinking about doingthat. Do you have any advice to
give to someone who is thinkingabout either stand up or
creating, writing and doing thisrecording their work, any
(32:02):
advice, any Sure.
Joel Kaemmerlen (32:05):
Glad to do anything, you know, because you
don't know, if you if you havean interest, just pursue it.
Because it might connect you tothings that you don't
anticipate. You might not evenlike that thing in the long run.
But it might lead you tosomething else that might
connect you to other people whoare creative, who can turn you
(32:25):
on to things that you didn'tanticipate. And also just start
small. You know, if you're like,I want to write, I'm going to
sit down and write that novel,or that idea that I've had
cooking in my head for a while,you're probably you might you
might succeed at it. But why notwrite something small first, and
(32:46):
give yourself that reward ofhaving finished something
because that feeling that youhaven't finished things
perpetuates that feeling ofyourself as someone who doesn't
finish things, and we don't,none of us finish everything.
It's okay. But the more thingsthat you actually do complete,
whether they're good or not, thefarther you'll go, and you can
(33:07):
take something that you finishand you can actually make it
better, it's easier to do thatthan to improve on than to try
to edit something as you'regoing along. So to set your
goals really small is has been ahuge factor for myself, at
least. And be okay with yourfailures, laugh at them and
learn from them. Every singleperson who's made it any place
(33:27):
has has suitcases and suitcasesof failures there.
William Forchion (33:34):
And I think I mean, what reminded me of in
the, you know, the disparagingterm of snowflake, but if you
were to craft a bunch of snow,you know, one snowflake, not a
big deal. But if you were to getyou know, a bunch of snowflakes,
turns into a blizzard. And youwould laugh at a snowflake but
(33:54):
not at you know, six foot ofsnow. And yet that six foot snow
is made up of all thosesnowflakes,
Joel Kaemmerlen (33:59):
nothing but snowflakes,
William Forchion (34:00):
nothing but snowflakes. And I use that term
on purpose just because of
Joel Kaemmerlen (34:05):
Oh, yes, no.
Thank you.
William Forchion (34:07):
All right. So, Joel, it's been great chatting
with you. This is a moment sincewe're almost at to the end. If
you have anything you want tothrow out there that I didn't
ask you that you was like, Hey,I wanted to share this, man. Why
didn't you ask me about that? Ifthere's anything you got that
you want to throw out there justlike, you know, hey, I've got a
sports drink that I want tosell.
Joel Kaemmerlen (34:27):
You know, plugging myself isn't isn't
really my strong suit. There isone thing though I did say like,
you know, you could ask intimatequestions and I was really
helping you to get to all thosemurders that I got away with. So
William Forchion (34:40):
you're not helping yourself here.
Joel Kaemmerlen (34:43):
I never do I never do.
William Forchion (34:45):
If you are not helping yourself, Joel Cameron.
I am really grateful that we hadthis time together. And thank
you for sharing what you're whatyou're digging into and how
you're changing the world with alittle with humor. Not a little
bit. A lot. You're going to dropus a little avalanche or or a
snow storm of fumer where
Joel Kaemmerlen (35:07):
it's gonna be a fire-nado typhoon,
William Forchion (35:09):
a fire-nado typhoon with with killer
turtles, or everyone thank youfor listening. Thank you for
watching here on vBillolsophy
Joel Kaemmerlen (35:22):
William Forchion, I love you. Thank you.
William Forchion (35:24):
Thank you very much Joel
Joel Kaemmerlen (35:27):
Have a great day, Buddy.
William Forchion (35:28):
OK I'll be dropping a few more of these I
got some more interviews comingup. And I also go back to my
format from my first season,which is just my stepping inside
of my cranium and, and pullingout topics and if you have
topics that you would like tohear, please hit me up at my
email Bill lesufi 101 atgmail.com and also support
(35:51):
through Patreon. You can alsosupport through philosophy 101
at cashapp and philosophy, oneon one at Venmo. Okay, thank you
very much. And remember, moveforward with passion and
purpose. And please, everymorning and every night look in
the mirror say to yourself, I amenough because you know it, you
(36:13):
are enough.
Intro Voice (36:21):
Thank you for listening to the philosophy
podcast. Keep checking in as wewill be regularly releasing new
episodes.
Welcome to a place where we're thinking together
and thinking deeper about who weare. Welcome to the philosophy
podcast.
Joel Kaemmerlen (00:18):
Hello, good morning. How are you? Sounds
good. Oh, I can I can send.
William Forchion (00:24):
Welcome to the philosophy podcast. I'm William
Forchion. And today, my guestis...
Joel Kaemmerlen (00:31):
I am Joel Kaemmerlen. And I am a
renaissance maniac.
William Forchion (00:36):
a renaissance man, that's a great
Joel Kaemmerlen (00:39):
better than a renaissa nce manequin, which I
have been before
William Forchion (00:42):
I ran into Joel. The first time I was
working at a hardware store andthis guy, we started talking
about something and then standup comedy came up. And we both
do stand up comedy, which Iwould say, wait a minute, this
guy, bear with me. This guy'spretty square. And he's doing
stand up comedy.
Intro Voice (01:04):
me.
William Forchion (01:07):
But you have a lot of other really cool
interests. And we're gonna getinto stand up comedy as well. I
like where does your money comefrom? How do you know what made
you just jump into that? BecauseI also so I was hosting and it
got shut down really quickly dueto the the, the stay at home
shelter in place orders that areout there. And we couldn't do
(01:29):
any longer or an audience. I wasrunning a once monthly stand up
comedy open mic. And the firstone I did I actually used Joel's
talents, for better for lack ofa better phrase. So tell tell me
a little, a little bit aboutyour background in getting into
(01:50):
stand up comedy. And where doesthat come from?
Joel Kaemmerlen (01:53):
That's a good question. I'm not sure where
where it comes from. It'sprobably universal, you know,
that it comes from some sort ofsome sort of personal anguish
and the release that comedy hasfrom it. I i've, because I've
been pursuing comedy a lot I'vebeen thinking about, you know,
(02:13):
why we do it. And, you know,what inclines us as people to to
accommodate. And I think a lotof ways it's the release valve
for tension for situations and Ifound that humor is especially
pivotal in my relationships withother people if navigating
through things that might beuncomfortable, or unpleasant,
(02:34):
that there's that that releaseof stepping back from it and
finding humor in it and beingreleased from maybe the
emotional tension that's causedby I don't know what what got me
into stand up comedy other thanmy admiration for other stand up
comics, and just the pleasurethat I found from performance in
general. It's something that Icraved doing for a long time and
(02:56):
finally mustered up the cajonesto get up there and give it a
shot.
William Forchion (03:01):
Now, one of the things that a lot of stand
up comics talk about is a is whothey who they looked up to who
they emulated resinated.
Joel Kaemmerlen (03:08):
Yeah.
William Forchion (03:08):
First of all, who who do you did you resonate
with? And who do you most seeyourself? Like?
Joel Kaemmerlen (03:14):
It's a question. Um, there's, there's a
lot of comics who influenced melike from my childhood on. I
think sketch comedy was reallymy first love before doing stand
up, but there's definitely somecrossover there. So I was too
young, when Saturday Night Livewas really in its heyday. But I
(03:37):
remember getting the EddieMurphy, the best of Eddie Murphy
Saturday Night Live on VHS as akid. And then getting into his
stand up comedy, some of hisearlier stuff raw and delirious,
things like that. So other thankind of the 1950s style of stand
(03:58):
up comedy that started evolvingin the one liners. As I got
older, I really got into BillHicks. That was really an eye
opening experience for me when Iwas a teenager and I was feeling
especially rebellious. And a lotof that intellectual leftist
rebellion spoke to mesignificantly. And I'm a huge
(04:22):
fan of Maria Bamford. Andthere's just too many to name
William Forchion (04:26):
When I listened to your work when I
when you when I want to ply yourtrade. I'm right right. I feel
like I've just been transportedto the Catskills or you're off
you know, like, I could justimagine you in a room doing the
borscht circuit or just becauseyou have a really dry delivery.
(04:50):
And but you do contrast that byI mean you have a great bit of
contrast. I love your sets inthat they do have they start off
really dry and they just rev upJust like they're there, you
don't see them coming at you.
And then you know they're onyou. And it's it's, it's a it's
really neat.
Joel Kaemmerlen (05:07):
And that that kind of reminds me a lot of my
my father, I think I got a lotof my comic sense from him
because my, my father has a verydry sense of humor, but he knows
what's funny. So he'll betelling this hysterical story
and just hitting all the pointswith it and barely cracking a
(05:28):
smile, and it makes it all thatmuch funnier. Remember, actually
reading he read this book to mewhen I was a kid is called
Danny, the champion of theworld, which was a book by Roald
Dahl, about a father and son wholived together and a dad gets
the Son into poaching pheasants.
It's a really funny story. Andthere's this detail in that book
(05:48):
about how the father neversmiles. But instead, when he's
smiling, he twinkles in his eye,and how a lot of people can fake
a smile, but you can't fake. Andwhen my father tells us wry
stories, if he doesn't smilewhen he has that twinkle in his
eye, just like in that book, andI think that I picked up a lot
(06:09):
of my sense from him, and youdefinitely do see it in my stand
up. And I it's not like I wasable to do it for very long
before this COVID mess came. Sothere's still a lot to develop.
But to answer your previousquestion, I I see the style that
been working now it's a lotresembling of patent Oswald's
earlier stuff like that. I thinkthat listening to a lot of those
(06:33):
albums, were also lollipops andfeeling kind of had. And those
had a pretty profound influenceon my writing style as a comic.
Because I do as a writer, Ireally have come to enjoy the
rewriting process and trying tohash something out. And then as
(06:54):
you see in my stand up, I'lljust take a bit and I'll just
double down and triple down andquadruple down and just keep
developing until it descendsinto complete madness.
William Forchion (07:03):
Right, and it's funny, because doing stand
up, which I am also new to I'veonly been at it for a couple
years, although I've wanted todo it for over 40 years. Yeah,
you are, we have a verydifferent style, I will say I'll
run through my head a lot, Ibarely write down anything. And
then I, I just I improv, I justkind of go I know where I'm
heading to, I don't know how I'mgetting there. But I know I'm
(07:25):
heading and I go for it. And youare really meticulous you have
worked out you have you have somuch of it sculpted already. And
then you allow it to shape infront of an audience and then
you try it again. And you workit some more until you I mean
you're like a fine art sculpturewith your work. And it and it
(07:46):
shows because I watched you overa couple of sessions take a
pieces that have developed andthey develop beautifully. And I
appreciate that and expand inwhat you do. Now, I want to I
have to there's a two roads herethat we can take one is taking
(08:06):
how this is shaping other thingsthat you're doing. And the other
one is going backwards and andlike just where did you Where
did you come from? What planetare you from? Where did you get
like where did you grow up? Whatwas what was home life like?
Because as you said there's alot of the comedy that when we
look instead of comics there's alot of comics who are their
(08:28):
comedy is developed from NXP isdeveloped from kind of hardship
and there's an inner turmoilthat they're working through
that make that comes out asfunny yet within the the Cesar
are dark and dank and they'reroiling. Right, well, but the
funny comes out. So tell us alittle bit about where you come
from. You're growing up Sure.
Joel Kaemmerlen (08:48):
Yeah. Or or what's funny is a lot of people
think that they're being funny.
And that's a situation by forsome people, other people also
think it's funny when theydemonstrate that anguish, you
know, right, for some peoplethat can come out as some as a
lot of vitriol, you know,whereas others it can be a
bonding experience whereeveryone is released from that,
which is really interesting.
(09:11):
Yeah, and it's it's interesting,like how one can take something
like mania and it can be thisincredible fuel to the fire but
you know, you get gasoline tooclose to your your bonfire and
you end up self sabotaging withthat same energy. So I was born
in New Hampshire, and I lived ina few different towns before
(09:34):
moving to Western Mass when Iwas six years old, and I lived
there for my entire education.
So in kindergarten throughcollege, and when I got to
Worcester, I went to a privatereligious school, went to a
Solomon Schechter day school.
And my I think the biggest classI ever had was maybe like 10
(09:56):
other students. So it wasdefinitely a bubble, a social
bubble. And there is a realcontrast, I think, between the
teachers who appreciated myintensity, and who I found
refuge with, and those who werekind of mainline hardcore, very
(10:16):
rigid, which just did not flyvery well with me. And I think
in a lot of ways, gave me a kneejerk reaction to authority in
general that has, unfortunatelysabotage some of some of the
relationships I had withauthority going on in my youth
before I was
William Forchion (10:33):
Were you the class clown?
Joel Kaemmerlen (10:36):
I was definitely described as weird,
you know, like, I'm not sure.
It's so complicated to try todisseminate the your social
relationship when the class iseight kids, right now you're
kind of, you're trapped, and youkind of need each other. So you
can't effectively be a pariahfor very long because people are
(11:00):
stuck with you.
William Forchion (11:02):
Right
Joel Kaemmerlen (11:03):
I was never, I was never a pariah. But I'm not
I'm not really sure what myidentity was, I was known for
being a goofball. But a classclown would be hyperbole.
William Forchion (11:15):
Right. Okay.
No, and that's a, you know, oneof those common questions. And
what I'm really floored at, isthat very few people who do
adventure into comedy, areactually the class clown. Most
of us are where we're sittingback and thinking through
things, or a lot of us werethinking, thinking it through
and, and really understandingthe relationship between words
and people and all that stuff.
(11:37):
And then it eventually came outas the the comedy thing.
Joel Kaemmerlen (11:42):
Yeah. And there's people who suffer from
social anxiety who get up onstage and do the scariest thing
you can do, which is, you know,up there. Right, stand up
comedy.
William Forchion (11:51):
Where did you go to college?
Joel Kaemmerlen (11:53):
So after I got out of that day school, I went
to a pretty rough high school.
It was not the high school thatwas close to the private school,
where a lot of the kids that Ihad been in school with for nine
years, we're going, I went up toburncoat, Senior High in North
End, Western, which was, yeah,like, had a lot of kids that
(12:15):
were from tough projects. Andwhen I went to shadow there, I
just saw that there were so manypeople who didn't look like me,
and who didn't act like me. Andit was so appealing after being
stuck at Solomon chapter fornine years to branch out. And I
went there. And then, you know,I did well academically, but I
(12:36):
had, I still had my brush inswith the administration, with
the hardcore people who justdidn't appreciate any true
creativity, they just wanted youto kind of jump through the
hoops and be an automaton,essentially. And so I left
there, I went to college for mysenior year of high school at
Worcester State. So I went toClark University for four years
(12:56):
afterwards, but I had alreadybeen in college for a year when
I went there. I kind of regretmissing out on my senior year,
but it was also it was just timeto get out of there. And I had
some good times. I mean, it'scollege.
William Forchion (13:12):
So I'm just gonna take a moment here and
just say that if you're justjoining, I am in conversation
with Joel Kaemmerlen, who hasbeen sharing about stand up
comedy, and we're at his how itgot to where he is right now.
And we're heading towards hisother interests and his other
loves and passions in life. Ihave worked with Joel, we've
(13:35):
done some stand up together. Andwe've done other projects
together, which we'll get intolater. So back to where we were,
we were so you got to college,what did you study? And then did
you know what you're going todo?
Joel Kaemmerlen (13:47):
I studied sociology. And eventually what
happened was, one of the thingsin the background that really
got me into doing stand up wasperformance in general. I got
into community theater when Iwas an adolescent, and did that
through high school. And thatwas really my passion. I wanted
to be an actor. That's what Iwanted. And my grandparents were
really generous. They were theywere footing the bill for what
(14:11):
my scholarships didn't pay for,for college, but they had no
interest in sending another oneof their kids to an art school.
They had done that before andlearn their lesson. And so I
ended up going to ClarkUniversity because it was close
to my martial arts school at thetime. I was I'm not sure if I
(14:32):
started running classes when Iwas admitted into court, but I
did. I did. I was runningclasses. By the time I was a
freshman. And that was reallywhat what held me there and I've
lost my train of thought it wasfine. It took me way so many
things, but martial arts is oneof the things that I got really
William Forchion (14:51):
Wh at form martial arts did you did you
train?
Joel Kaemmerlen (14:53):
so that it's Taekwondo than kung fu and I
studied at another kung fuschool a few years ago, for A
few years, okay, so mostly KungFu. But fortunately, the
Taekwondo gave me a really goodfoundation for my kicks, because
that's what they're awesome at.
William Forchion (15:09):
And as a stand up comic you need that you need
that.
Joel Kaemmerlen (15:12):
Hey man,. Yeah.
You never know when your hipflexors will come in handy when
someone bum rushes you, becauseyou've offended there were
too many.
William Forchion (15:24):
You've got you've got another tool for
handling hecklers. There you go.
Joel Kaemmerlen (15:26):
Be prepared at all times.
William Forchion (15:30):
All right. So one of the other things that you
are doing is you are writing.
Currently, you're working on apodcast, which is I want to say
it's, it's unusual, but thereare so many different kinds of
podcasts out there. Your podcastis more like a old time radio
show. Yeah, but it's sketchcomedy. It's got right.
(15:52):
commercials. Yeah. Tell me.
Joel Kaemmerlen (15:56):
It's, you know, it is it's hard to describe what
the show is. But yeah, I wantedto do an old time radio show
that kind of descended into asketch comedy show. That's,
that's utter madness, and hasbeen an absolute pleasure to
work on. I just can't put enoughblessings on all the people who
I've managed to recruit into theshow with their talent. It's
(16:21):
been it's been a reallywonderful experience. And we've
been working on it for about ayear and a half now. Slowly
chipping away at it and gettingthe pilot ready. And it's
happening. So yeah, that'sreally exciting.
William Forchion (16:34):
Please tell us what the name of that podcast
is. And then if you can give alittle overview of what it looks
like, you know, what makes thispodcast stand out from in the
podcast verse.
Joel Kaemmerlen (16:48):
So, the name of the show is Christmas Wolf,
which is kind of a strange namethat came about because it came
about for a few reasons. One isthat when they were still video
stores around I don't know ifyou remember that back in the
day, but me and my wife werelooking at the movies and
noticed what an influx ofmovies, they were about dogs
(17:11):
saving Christmas. And at anotherpoint, I was talking with my
good friend, Josh, who is apivotal member of the show, and
I was talking about how I'm moreof a Christmas, wolf. And it was
looking back on my childhood,because my mom's side is Jewish,
and my father and his Christian,we were practicing Jews, and we
(17:34):
would go to their house tocelebrate Christmas. And it was
like, This is Christmas. Andit's awesome. But you can't have
it. It's not really for you. Theidea of being an outsider, I
think it's pivotal to the showthat it appeals to people who
are a bit on the fringes, it'soffbeat humor. It's dark, and
mixes horror with with comedy.
But the show also has a lot ofheart. There's definitely
moments where we're leaning moretowards comedy and having
(17:57):
characters with real substanceand beauty to them with the
comedy still in there. So we'retrying to cover a lot of bases
with it. And I think that we'redoing a good job with it.
William Forchion (18:09):
You have mentioned Josh, and if I may, or
Josh Cunningham
Joel Kaemmerlen (18:13):
He's my best buddy,
William Forchion (18:14):
who you guys go back a bit because you you
were doing stuff before becauseyou had worked on a radio show.
If I'm not incorrect. And thetwo of you had worked together
on that, can you tell me aboutthat? And did work from the
radio show? help shape yourstand up or the podcast that
(18:38):
you're?
Joel Kaemmerlen (18:39):
Yeah, that entirely. I mean, that was
really the whole drawing boardfor what we're doing right now.
And learning from our successesand our mistakes and what we
needed to do to take things tothe next level. So this show
originally started with me doingit myself, and it was called
muskrat repair services, whichwas based on a sketch where two
(19:01):
reoccurring characters who run aradio show have guests on and
everything goes wrong inhilarious ways. The first guest
was Larry Donahue, the owner ofmuskrat repair services, who is
an incredibly certainly man whois asked to leave about three
minutes into the interview. Andthat's where most credit repair
services comes from. And it wasan old it was an old idea of
(19:25):
mine back when I was working inkitchen about muskrat repair and
I would leave I would leavemessages on my my phone
voicemails for people to leaveit to for the business. I'm not
sure where it came about, but itjust it stuck around God bless.
And so I ended up recording anumber of sketches all with my
(19:47):
own voices and intermeshingthings over and and after a
while Josh got interested and westarted writing scripts together
and started doing things andthen we kind of burned out on
it. It was. We were doing it atwV w here in Brattleboro, the
local radio station. And we hadto come up with a cue for music
(20:10):
and plan shows, in addition toall the comedy stuff, and it
just became unsustainable withtwo people to keep it up. And so
we took a break. Andfortunately, in the last few
years, I've gotten back intocommunity theater pretty
heavily, been in almost everyshow of it, the Guilford Grange,
and the few other of themillions of theatre companies
(20:33):
here in Vermont. And Josh hasalso been in a number of shows
with me in the and going throughthe different productions, I've
met a lot of really talentedpeople that I recruited for the
show to do voice acting. Andwhat's really cool is some of
them have also gotten intowriting where they never did
(20:55):
before. And it's been reallyawesome to create a supportive,
ego free environment in whichpeople can develop skills they
might not otherwise havepursued. And also to provide a
break for some creative peoplelike Anders Burroughs is a
really talented musician, but hewanted to do acting for this.
(21:16):
Fortunately, he's also a verytalented actor. So it's nice to
give some creative people abreak from what they're doing
for money, trying to doprofessionally and make it as
fun as possible for everyone.
William Forchion (21:29):
Right. One of the other things, which I also
think is pretty unique, is withhaving been seen the inner
workings of what you're doingwith Christmas, Wolf, is that
it's it employs the whole thewriters room concept is that you
come up with a you have atemplate, or you throw out some
you're writing your script, andthen everyone is a table read.
(21:51):
And then there's room foradditions and subtractions. Not
always because you are the czarthat you because I've I've
actually seen this process. AndI think it's really a neat
process. And it doesn't theensemble component, I think is
really important to how each ofthe pieces develops, even when
(22:14):
some so your ensemble may notalways have a say in, in making
changes. But they do have a sayin developing the characters.
And I have seen where they havehad SES in the developing of the
piece after it's been written oryou've given them the structure
of the bones of it. So can youtalk a little bit about that?
Joel Kaemmerlen (22:34):
Sure. The process that like what's the
process of actually like makingsomething like this? Yeah, I
really tried to give people alot of credence and leeway to
try different things and allowpeople to make whatever
suggestions and there have beentimes where there's been
consensus between a number ofpeople there about something
that I'm not really on boardwith, but it seems that people
(22:57):
are strongly enough for ittogether, that they have a
better idea of where somethingshould go. And I think that's
it's part of the creativeprocess, whether you're writing
by yourself or with otherpeople, too. Even if you really
like something, and you're like,Oh, that's that's funny, our
whole man, that's smart, that Ilove this character. If it's not
(23:21):
working for the piece itself,it's not working for that thing,
you got to ditch it, and you gotto let it go. And so that's
really a lot of the process of,you know, working together on
something as is everyone puttingin their two cents about? What
should this get out of here?
Like, do we need to develop thisplatform. And what that looks
(23:41):
like on a meeting basis ispretty varied. So some, the same
person who wrote a script, theother week, might come up with
an idea but have no interest inwriting the script and hand it
off to someone else, or someonewho thought they were going to
be involved in one respectbecomes involved more than
(24:02):
another. And that's, that'sreally cool to see. Because
people have different strengths,and different leanings and
giving everyone the opportunity.
So there's no real clear way toconvey exactly how you know what
the process is because it tendsto change. But usually, it's
just someone someone findssomething really funny. It's,
(24:23):
it's a scenario That's funny.
It's a character. That'shilarious. And there's some
there's some little thing and itjust catches it's like a it's
it's like a flick of a matchthat hits the Tinder in the
right race and everyone you canjust see everyone light up and
go that is funny, like, what dowe do with that? And then
throwing the ideas around thetable until we start developing
and then someone will do acharacter voice and kind of, you
(24:46):
know, go back and forth and asas a group together, we just
were trying to figure out what'sactually funny about it, right.
Once we figure that out, you'vewrite a first draft and that
first draft doesn't need to beGood, needs to be finished.
Right? And when you when youhave meat to work with, right
rewrite it until it's right,
William Forchion (25:08):
when you're working through the process,
because not everybody knows whatthis process is. And and
actually quite a few peopledon't know this process. Do you
hear the voices in your head? Doyou? Are you like, a little, you
know, are you? Are thecharacters actually coming
alive? Or are you? Are yousitting there worrying?
Joel Kaemmerlen (25:27):
Completely and for me, it's, you know, you
describe me as meticulous in mywriting. And that's, that's
definitely how it is, I can hearall the timing, I can hear the
tone, I can hear all of it, it'sall clear as day in my head when
I'm writing it, especially whenit's a good script. Because I
can get really set on that andbe meticulous, I understand that
(25:49):
enough to when I'm bringing thescript to people for the first
time, or the second or even thethird, I really try not to
provide any of that direction, Itry not to get too attached with
what's going on in my head.
Because when you're working withother people, they bring
brilliance that you just don'thave to the table, they're going
to have a different take on acharacter that's going to maybe
it's not going to work, but alot of times it provides
(26:12):
something that's like absolutegold that I didn't even see and
couldn't have. So that's that'sreally
William Forchion (26:21):
that was my follow up on that was Have you
had where you had a clear voicein your head of a character, and
then someone reading thatcharacter, and they're taking it
in a very different direction.
And you're just like, no, haveyou had the chance times where
you've needed to just steer themback to this is how I hear it,
and draw a line read of whatthat is.
Joel Kaemmerlen (26:42):
Definitely. And I and I'm trying to find the
right equilibrium with withactors, you know, where, because
some people really want a freerein, some people really want a
lot of guidance. And sometimesthe opposite is good, if it's
gentle, and it's just a matterof, you know, figuring out that
(27:02):
process together of wheresomeone's at, where they where
they're at their optimum levelof having those reins pulled in
or being let go. And it's beenreally fun to see and support
people. Because it's creating asa as a process you what works
(27:23):
for you one year changes anotheryou you become better you
develop.
William Forchion (27:28):
And well. So where we're at right now, the
reason why we're doing thisinterview and with this process
right now is that normally Iwhen I started doing the
interviews, it was person toperson, we'd be in the same
place, but now we're in right.
We're social distancing. And,and we so times have changed and
which has meant a differentplatform. You're I mean, this,
it's great that you're doing apodcast because you don't need a
(27:51):
large audience to be in the roomwhen you're doing that. Where do
you see this? How do you see thebusiness changing the the whole
entertainment industry ischanging, and where you're
poised with what you're doing?
Do you see where we're comingout to? Do you have any idea of
what might be ahead?
Joel Kaemmerlen (28:12):
I think that we're all just stuck in
speculation right now. And evenpeople who are insiders who are
much more deeply connected withthe industry would still be
giving you a pretty widespectrum of Gamble's on this, we
could use someone who's youngand hungry. Right now. I just
picture some scraggly, 24 yearold who's sick, who knows all
(28:35):
the social media platforms,because the amount of work that
goes into post production, asyou know, is incredibly
demanding. And in addition tostill working a job, thank God,
you know, doing, trying tryingto build an exorcism that's
taking place in an auditoriumwith all sorts of people making
(28:58):
reactions and making thatbelievable is not a simple
process, especially when thesketch is 14 minutes long. So
yeah, it's that's something thatwe're we've been talking about a
lot lately and trying to thinkand
William Forchion (29:15):
I would say that's also something that
that's come up is that you'renot creating uniform packages.
So each of your writings are youcreating a like so the finished
product. Since it's not doneyet. I'm asking speculatively is
are you putting out a half hourshow? Are you putting out a 15
minute show? Or are you justputting out skits going out
(29:37):
whatever length it is a sevenminute a five minute, a 20
minute skit? How is that how yourolling out this? And partly
because I would like to know itpartly because I think that
listeners who are thinkingoutside the box or creating
innovative stuff might be goingoh yeah, there's validity into
my doing it that way as well.
Joel Kaemmerlen (29:58):
It is such an honor interesting topic, because
we are living in an era wheretelevision and movies and media
has changed a lot and the howlong something runs and and and
how it's released has becomeincredibly nuanced. And it's
(30:19):
been an interesting debate withwith everyone as to what's the
best thing to do. And theconclusion I came to is, what
we're trying to do right now isreally nail down this pilot and
make it a really great portfolioof what the show has to offer.
With that said, there is a pileof scripts about that thick,
(30:39):
waiting to be recorded and madeinto episodes, we have so much
material that's already beenrewritten and written, it's
ready to go. And how we're goingto divide that, I think that
that pilots probably going to be40 minutes, and that 40 minutes
is going to be longer than theaverage episode that most of
them will be shorter than that.
But it's really going to be amatter of where how they're put
(31:02):
together. So I do not see ushaving a standard time for
episodes, I see them as I'm hardpressed to think of some other
shows that I've seen do this,but there's going to be some
variants there, there will beshows that are 12 to 15 minutes
long, there will be ones thatare 23 minutes long. There'll be
(31:24):
ones that are 40 minutes long.
We have long scripts, we haveshort scripts. So right. There
will be rewards for those whocontinue listening that way, but
those who might jump around,
William Forchion (31:40):
right? All right. Well, Joel, it's been
great chatting with you. So oneof the things I always think of
is, you got the younger youwho's sitting back there going
Hmm, I'm thinking about doingthat. Do you have any advice to
give to someone who is thinkingabout either stand up or
creating, writing and doing thisrecording their work, any
(32:02):
advice, any Sure.
Joel Kaemmerlen (32:05):
Glad to do anything, you know, because you
don't know, if you if you havean interest, just pursue it.
Because it might connect you tothings that you don't
anticipate. You might not evenlike that thing in the long run.
But it might lead you tosomething else that might
connect you to other people whoare creative, who can turn you
(32:25):
on to things that you didn'tanticipate. And also just start
small. You know, if you're like,I want to write, I'm going to
sit down and write that novel,or that idea that I've had
cooking in my head for a while,you're probably you might you
might succeed at it. But why notwrite something small first, and
(32:46):
give yourself that reward ofhaving finished something
because that feeling that youhaven't finished things
perpetuates that feeling ofyourself as someone who doesn't
finish things, and we don't,none of us finish everything.
It's okay. But the more thingsthat you actually do complete,
whether they're good or not, thefarther you'll go, and you can
(33:07):
take something that you finishand you can actually make it
better, it's easier to do thatthan to improve on than to try
to edit something as you'regoing along. So to set your
goals really small is has been ahuge factor for myself, at
least. And be okay with yourfailures, laugh at them and
learn from them. Every singleperson who's made it any place
(33:27):
has has suitcases and suitcasesof failures there.
William Forchion (33:34):
And I think I mean, what reminded me of in
the, you know, the disparagingterm of snowflake, but if you
were to craft a bunch of snow,you know, one snowflake, not a
big deal. But if you were to getyou know, a bunch of snowflakes,
turns into a blizzard. And youwould laugh at a snowflake but
(33:54):
not at you know, six foot ofsnow. And yet that six foot snow
is made up of all thosesnowflakes,
Joel Kaemmerlen (33:59):
nothing but snowflakes,
William Forchion (34:00):
nothing but snowflakes. And I use that term
on purpose just because of
Joel Kaemmerlen (34:05):
Oh, yes, no.
Thank you.
William Forchion (34:07):
All right. So, Joel, it's been great chatting
with you. This is a moment sincewe're almost at to the end. If
you have anything you want tothrow out there that I didn't
ask you that you was like, Hey,I wanted to share this, man. Why
didn't you ask me about that? Ifthere's anything you got that
you want to throw out there justlike, you know, hey, I've got a
sports drink that I want tosell.
Joel Kaemmerlen (34:27):
You know, plugging myself isn't isn't
really my strong suit. There isone thing though I did say like,
you know, you could ask intimatequestions and I was really
helping you to get to all thosemurders that I got away with. So
William Forchion (34:40):
you're not helping yourself here.
Joel Kaemmerlen (34:43):
I never do I never do.
William Forchion (34:45):
If you are not helping yourself, Joel Cameron.
I am really grateful that we hadthis time together. And thank
you for sharing what you're whatyou're digging into and how
you're changing the world with alittle with humor. Not a little
bit. A lot. You're going to dropus a little avalanche or or a
snow storm of fumer where
Joel Kaemmerlen (35:07):
it's gonna be a fire-nado typhoon,
William Forchion (35:09):
a fire-nado typhoon with with killer
turtles, or everyone thank youfor listening. Thank you for
watching here on vBillolsophy
Joel Kaemmerlen (35:22):
William Forchion, I love you. Thank you.
William Forchion (35:24):
Thank you very much Joel
Joel Kaemmerlen (35:27):
Have a great day, Buddy.
William Forchion (35:28):
OK I'll be dropping a few more of these I
got some more interviews comingup. And I also go back to my
format from my first season,which is just my stepping inside
of my cranium and, and pullingout topics and if you have
topics that you would like tohear, please hit me up at my
email Bill lesufi 101 atgmail.com and also support
(35:51):
through Patreon. You can alsosupport through philosophy 101
at cashapp and philosophy, oneon one at Venmo. Okay, thank you
very much. And remember, moveforward with passion and
purpose. And please, everymorning and every night look in
the mirror say to yourself, I amenough because you know it, you
(36:13):
are enough.
Intro Voice (36:21):
Thank you for listening to the philosophy
podcast. Keep checking in as wewill be regularly releasing new
episodes.
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