September 23, 2025 • 30 mins
Is this the U.K.’s moment to capitalize on its biotech ecosystem? That was one of the primary themes discussed at the debut Grand Rounds — Europe conference last week in Cambridge, U.K. BioMarin's James Sabry and Astex's Michelle Jones joined BioCentury’s analysts on a special edition of the BioCentury This Week podcast recorded live at the event to discuss their key takeaways from the two-day conference.
Beyond the state of the U.K. biopharma ecosystem, the analysts discussed the meeting’s major science themes, including what’s next for DNA damage repair pathway targets, both inside and outside of cancer; whether obesity should be recast as a brain disease; and the cutting edge of small molecule design.
View full story: https://www.biocentury.com/article/657082
#UKBiotech #TranslationalMedicine #DrugPricing #GlobalCollaboration #Aging #Biologics #SmallMolecules #Biobanking
00:00 - Introduction
00:35 - Key Takeaways
02:14 - The State of the U.K. Biotech Ecosystem
09:01 - Scientific Highlights & Panel Takeaways
22:44 - Closing Remarks and Future Events
To submit a question to BioCentury’s editors, email the BioCentury This Week team at podcasts@biocentury.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[AI-generated transcript.]
Jeff Cranmer (00:02):
You are listening to a special edition Of the
BioCentury this week podcast.
recorded live on stagein Cambridge at the
third BioCentury GrandRounds conference.
And first to take place inEurope, grand Rounds Europe.
Like Grand Rounds, U.S. seeksto engage thought leaders at
(00:23):
the academia industry interface.
Now, here's your host,BioCentury's, Stephen Hansen.
Stephen Hansen (00:31):
Welcome to a special edition of the
BioCentury This week podcast.
I'm Stephen Hansen, directorof Biopharma Intelligence here
at BioCentury's, and we arecoming to you from the ancient
university town of Cambridge inthe U.K. The original Cambridge
as it were, uh, where we arewrapping up our first inaugural
Grand Rounds Europe conference.
(00:51):
Joining me to discuss keytakeaways from the event are
James Sabry, EVP, and ChiefBusiness Officer of BioMarin
Pharmaceutical, MichelleJones, chief Operating Officer
at Astex Pharmaceuticals.
And then from the BioCenturyside we have our illustrious vp.
Used to
Simone Fishburn (01:11):
be
Stephen Hansen (01:11):
esteemed.
I used to be esteemed.
You used to be esteemed.
Well, you're still esteemed,but you're also illustrious.
Right.
And editor in chief,Simone Fishburn.
And then our talented executiveeditor and head of intelligence
and research, Selina Koch.
so thank you.
Uh, first off to our sponsorsagain for a tremendous
conference over the pastfew days, believe that
they achieved sort of theunthinkable, in terms of
(01:34):
having two days of pretty.
Great weather, uh, whichI did not think was gonna
happen having this inCambridge in the fall.
I'm so glad.
'cause
Simone Fishburn (01:42):
I thought you were gonna say two
days of pretty good panels,which is totally thinkable.
Stephen Hansen (01:47):
Oh, they were more than just, they
were more than just good.
No, but.
The weather also seems tocooperate better than expected.
So, but you're right.
We also have had two and ahalf days of panel discussions,
uh, meetings, firesidechats about the future of
translational medicine andin Europe's role in it.
So I think we should,we should dive right in.
So, Simone, as normal,I'm gonna start with you.
(02:08):
I would like you to giveme, uh, you know, maybe
one or two of your keytakeaways from this week.
Simone Fishburn (02:13):
Right.
So I, I want to start withjust sort of stipulating to
the fact that Grand Roundsis really a very geeky,
sciencey conference, bringingtogether academic innovators
together with thought leadersfrom Venture World Pharma.
biotech and, and more.
and so we are going to getinto some of the key scientific
(02:33):
takeaways, but it's also aboutan ecosystem here in the U.K.
where, you know, biotechhas been growing and growing
and then this conferencecame on the heels of some.
Sort of big blows to theecosystem in terms of Merck
deciding to, withdraw on a$1 billion, facility that
(02:55):
it was, building in Londonand followed by Lily and
AstraZeneca saying they mightpull back on their presence.
And so I wanna startwith just a little bit of
discussion about the, thegeneral environment here.
We had two, sessions, thatwere really fantastic.
We had a debate with theSteve Bates, who is the CEO
(03:16):
of the BIA, which is the UK'sversion of BIO, and soon to be.
Some very big, the nextdirector or some big, big
poobah in, um, office of LifeSciences in the government.
I
Stephen Hansen (03:28):
think Big Poobah is the official
Simone Fishburn (03:30):
I think Big, Poobah, I think
is the official title.
And then Jérôme VanBiervliet from uh, VIB.
They did a great debate onwhether this is the UK's.
Moment for biotech.
I'm gonna come to a coupleof those things in a minute.
And then we had a great firesidechat moderated by Kate Bingham
who as people will remember,led the Vaccine Task Force
is a, a premier investor,uh, managing director at,
(03:50):
uh, SV Life Sciences and, uh,Patrick Valance, Lord Patrick
Valance to you, who is theMinister for Life Sciences.
And I, I just wanna makea couple of comments,
about my take home.
On the vibe here.
So there's no questionthat these were like kind
of big body blows, right?
And that definitely, there was aneed to respond and I think what
(04:12):
we heard and, you know, tuneinto BioCentury's and read it.
Next week we'll be writingmore about this, but
the minister definitelygave the message that.
He has heard and he plansto convey to the government
that he's heard, the urgency,the importance of resolving.
I think what most peopleagree, the real problem
(04:34):
is around drug pricing.
You know, it may be dressedup as a few other things here
and there, and Merck may haveits own issues and we can talk
about that, but there is avery big need to address that
amount of spend in the NHS.
We'll, elaborate,as I said on that.
In another place.
Um, but I, I also wantedto, make the point that
he and he talking withKate and Steve Jerome.
(04:55):
And just the vibe here.
It may have been a bodyblow, but there's still
tremendous enthusiasm.
Nobody is walking aroundtalking about the death of U.K.
biotech, you know, grosslyoverstated as some would
say, prematurely announced.
So I think there's just,you know, a feeling that
that's gotta be resolved.
But at the innovation level andat the energy level, There's
(05:15):
still a lot of value hereand people creating value and
people believing that they'recreating value and a lot of
thirst also for the kind of,input and advice that they can
get from people like you, Jamesfrom pharma or an ex pharma
BD people and from investors.
And so I feel like there'sstill a very healthy buzz here.
(05:37):
At the same time as therebeing a kind of like,
yikes, what's happening?
James Sabry (05:42):
Yeah.
One thing that, that Iappreciated was that although
there was, uh, some joyfulbanter on France versus the
U.K. um, and France did not comeout well, and I'm sure the U.K.
would not come out well ifthis was being held in France.
But, uh, besides thatbanter, in the end, I think
it was very clear that ourindustry does really well.
Only when there are wideopen borders for talent
(06:02):
flow, for capital flow, forglobal collaborations, and
that kind of came out as anunderscore I think throughout
the whole conference.
Stephen Hansen (06:09):
Yeah, I mean, Michelle, you're, you're sort of
our local, local hero here, sortof maybe the local hero effect.
Could you talk a little bitabout sort of what, what
your perspective was fromthe takeaway from the week?
Michelle Jones (06:18):
Yeah.
No, I think it's reallygreat that BioCentury Grand
Rounds has come to Cambridge,has come to Europe, but in
particular come to Cambridge.
I really, uh, think theCambridge ecosystem has
really been grateful forthe opportunity to showcase
everything that's going onin the, in this environment.
It's a thriving.
Community of academics, VCs,pharma execs, and I think,
(06:39):
there has been a lot ofenergy around in the room.
I've seen the buzz out inthe corridors and that's
been really great to see.
A lot of partnering meetings,a lot of companies presenting.
There's a real burgeoninglife science, in particular
biotech community here inCambridge and Astex, who's been
here for t over 25 years now.
Is really proud to be part ofthat and to contribute to that.
(07:00):
And we have a number ofinteractions with research
institutes across theCambridge ecosystem.
We are part of the Milner whoare one of your sponsors here.
We have academic relationshipswith a number of the academics
who were, Over here today,David Klenerman, Matthew
Garnett at the Sanger are allacademics that we work with
at, at Astex and, and someof the companies that have,
(07:20):
they've been spinning out aswell, like Mosaic and Base Rx.
I'm also minded of the panelbefore about, uh, quantum
computing, you know, lookingto the future as well.
Astex has a. Also a relationshipwith a, a biotech company
here in Cambridge calledRiverlane who've been at the
forefront of quantum computing.
So I think there's a lotof great stuff going on
in Cambridge, and I thinkwe really appreciate that
(07:43):
we've had an opportunityto, to showcase that to the
wider BioCentury's audience.
Simone Fishburn (07:47):
Actually, can I just follow that with
one point, because one of thethings that we have done with,
BioCentury Grand Rounds and ispart of the kind of what, what
I call the thesis of it is, isalso to bring innovators and
investors from everywhere else.
And so that's beena very significant
part of the audience.
So on the one hand we'veshowcased that, but on
the other hand, it's beengreat to see people from
(08:08):
Glasgow and Edinburgh andother parts of Europe and
innovators from everywhere.
And that really goesback to your point there.
It is about creating, youknow, we've always believed
that by a century, thosecross border connections
are what makes this tick.
So, you know, I, I thinkthat's been, that's
been quite fun to see.
And as I said, even againstthe backdrop of that sort
of very, kind of what feltlike alarming news, you,
(08:29):
you don't see sort of.
Long faces or too much,except a few people from
Merck had pretty long faces.
Michelle Jones (08:35):
I, I was just gonna say, I mean,
and there's only lots ofpositivity on the panels that
have all been presented here.
Obviously the ones that werefocused on the economics, and
some of those big, you know,body blows as you said to the
U.K. life science industry.
But overall, I think, Isense that there was enormous
positivity and innovationand science are really
at the forefront of that.
And I think the, the politicalpressures will be what they
(08:55):
will be, but I think as longas everybody keeps focusing
on the science, that that'sreally primary importance.
Stephen Hansen (09:01):
Speaking of sort of the AI and the things
there, I mean, Simone, I thinkyou, you also wanted to talk
maybe a bit about some of the,what we saw from the AI and
like chemical space and sort ofsome of the mapping and things.
what was your takeawayfrom one of those?
I think one of thosepanels as well.
Simone Fishburn (09:13):
Do you wanna go first to Selina?
That was linked.
Selina Koch (09:15):
So this is a geeky conference as Simone described,
and so I thought maybe wecould talk about science.
Stephen Hans (09:23):
Yeah, let's do it.
Let's it, what, what doyou wanna talk about?
So, um,
Selina Koch (09:26):
let's see.
Well, we have two keynote,we had two keynotes, which
I thought were really great.
Um, so I'll start there.
One was Steve Jackson.
Um, well known for his work onDNA damage repair pathways and
for work that led to Lynparza.
I think the thing that struckme most about that one.
was just the utility of thatpathway outside of cancer.
So these, um, DNA damagerepair mutations are
(09:49):
driving certain ataxia.
I think a neuroscience is apromising area and even, in
repeat expansion diseases, youcan get these somatic mutations
of relearning in Huntington'sdisease that develop over the
course of one's lifetime andincrease the length of a repeat.
And lead to symptom onsetwhen there's a certain
length of that repeat.
And so that's a whole areathat I think is not, it's new
(10:12):
and it's really promising andhasn't been super tapped yet.
So that's one.
The other one was, wait, lemmejust get, can I just interrupt
Simone Fishburn (10:17):
that?
'cause one of the things that Ithought was really interesting,
and we will be looking atthis, is the fact that.
You know, you had Lynparzaand there was this expectation
that they would uncover awhole lot of like, pairs
of genes that would be, youknow, DDR, you know, pairs.
And that hasn't yet happened.
And so there's a sortof question at the same
(10:38):
time as it's expandinginto other disease areas.
There's a question as to thereis where hasn't it even gone
further than it has in a cancer?
Stephen Hansen (10:44):
Yeah.
Selina Koch (10:45):
Re synthetic, uh, rescue.
Do you wanna
Stephen Hansen (10:48):
Well, I, I was, I was actually gonna
give, one fun fact that Ilearned from, uh, during Steve
Jackson's fun, or like, maybemore mind blowing, at least
the word, what I thought of.
But he, you know, he notedduring his lecture that, um,
that the DNA in every oneof our cells is damaged in
some way more than a hundredthousand times every day, and
(11:08):
then subsequently repaired.
And I'm still.
Kind of trying to wrapmy mind around that,
that that occurrence.
Um, so that, thatreally stuck with me.
Simone Fishburn (11:17):
yeah.
You know, my, my pi, when I didmy, um, postdoc used to have a,
what in England we call a badge,and the Americans call a button
saying, I know it looks like I'mdoing nothing, but at a cellular
level, I'm really very busy.
Stephen Hanse (11:30):
That's very good.
Well, maybe maybe on thatnote, on being active,
we will take a break.
We will come back andthen we can talk more
science when we return.
So hang with us.
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Stephen Hansen (12:17):
And we are back, live here from Churchill College
at the University of Cambridge.
before we dive back into thegeeky science that I know
Selina is dying to tell youmore about, first, uh, we have
started, from our first fewlive podcasts we've started
something of a tradition,of encouraging our guests.
Even sometimes our audiencemembers, if they wanna join in.
(12:38):
to wear some colorfulor extravagant, uh,
socks to our show.
Maybe I'll start off,if you don't mind.
Uh, I can show theaudience what I have.
So I have, Cambridge sockson my right side showing the,
um, punting in the cam, river.
But, having been someone whowent to Oxford, I also have, uh,
an Oxford sock on the other sideshowing the SPIs of the city.
(13:01):
So kind of sitting on the fence,you know, trying to be polite.
Are you
Simone Fishburn (13:04):
right?
Are you right footed or left?
Footed
Michelle (13:06):
Oxford socks allowed.
That's why it's on the left.
Moja, I, I think wemight have to evict you.
Stephen Hansen (13:12):
I'm trying, I'm trying to live in both
camps, so, um, but maybe,maybe, uh, we can, go around
here and have everyonetell me what their socks
are, even though, uh, it's.
Simone shamelessly forgotto bring her socks.
I just, I do want topoint that out explicitly.
but maybe James, you can tell mewhat, uh, what you've got going
with your, with your socks.
Yeah.
I'm
James Sabry (13:28):
wearing my Canadian moose socks.
Uh, an underappreciatedanimal, especially in
Europe, but in Canada it'svery much appreciated.
I'm Canadian.
Much bigger than
Stephen Hansen (13:36):
you expect in real life actually.
Yeah.
James Sabry (13:37):
Muir Lake.
Exactly.
But, uh, the Canadian flag'son there just to fly the
excellent, the national colors.
Excellent.
Uh,
Stephen Hansen (13:42):
Selina.
Selina Koch (13:44):
Science, like magic, but real.
Stephen Hansen (13:48):
That's good.
That's good.
And, uh, Michelle, what,uh, what, what do you got
going on with your sock game?
Michelle Jones (13:53):
Yeah, so, um, in jarring blue against my
black and white monochromeoutfits, um, I went for
jazzy, structure of DNA Helix,which obviously was famously,
Discovered in Cambridge, butalso ably supported by the x-ray
structures of Rosalind Franklin.
And those of you whoknow familiar with Astex
structure is at the centerof everything we do.
(14:14):
So, uh,
Stephen Hansen (14:15):
perfect.
Michelle Jones (14:15):
They, they felt like a good
choice, very appropriate.
Simone Fishburn (14:17):
I'd just like to defend myself here.
Okay.
Stephen Hansen (14:19):
You can try.
Simone Fishburn (14:19):
I did forget about the socks.
It's true.
But I thought I'd show thenails, especially as I realized
that they're actually inCambridge Blue, so they go.
You have light blue,light blue nails.
Yeah, that's good.
Stephen Hansen (14:30):
That's good.
Okay.
All right.
we'll let you out anyways.
let's return to ourgeeky, science discussion.
Selina, I think there,there were sort of two
sort of keynotes that youhad wanted to touch on.
I'll let you talk aboutthe first one and then
I abruptly cut you off.
Why don't we, uh, carry onwith the, with the second one?
No problem at
Selina Koch (14:45):
all.
The second one was SarahTeichmann who showcased,
uh, an example of the powerof spatial transcriptomics.
In resolving the cellular,you know, at the single
cell level, the complexityof an organ, in this case,
the thymus and its molecularmilieu, and how it changes
over the course of a lifetime.
And, relating that to,the hallmarks of aging
(15:09):
and to disease phenotypes.
And I think James mighthave some thoughts
on the aging panel.
James Sabry (15:15):
uh, the one thing that I found very interesting
about that aging panel was.
the question or hypothesisthat aging could be a driver
of disease and therefore ifyou actually, interfere with
the aging process itself,you may be able to have
an effect of the disease.
But in some ways, the, thereal question in front of all
of those scientists is, isaging simply correlated with
the disease and thereforegoing after the biology
(15:36):
of the disease itself?
Rather than aging is actuallya more fruitful way to develop
effective therapeutics withthe caveat that there may be
certain diseases that trulyare driven by aging, but
most diseases tend to show aphenotype where they're more
common the older you are.
Simone Fishburn (15:52):
explain.
So I think what those people inthat field are saying is they're
more common the older you are.
Therefore, aging is afactor in those diseases.
Selina Koch (16:02):
I think one way to think about it is somebody
says, I'm studying APOE4 inthe context of Alzheimer's.
'Cause it's a risk factor.
It's correlated.
Nobody says, well, youshouldn't study that.
They're like, that's obviouslysomething worth investigating.
So if age is an even biggerlike risk factor, it seems
like it's worth the hypothesis.
But I think the problem isthat it's just a h Like APOE4
(16:23):
is a very discreet entity,whereas agents is very complex
thing that's not well defined.
And how do you even go about it?
Yeah, yeah,
James Sabry (16:28):
exactly.
And the idea of doing a clinicaltrial to slow down aging is
a bit of a daunting thought.
Right.
Simone Fishburn (16:33):
And and I think that.
I think they did stipulate tothe idea that clinical trials
on it is quite far off right.
But understandingthe mechanisms of it.
So if you're saying thatwe know that, I don't know,
you know, skin elasticity isone that they talked about
or various other things offeatures that you uncover those
pathways and maybe they revealdisease processes to you.
(16:54):
For sure.
James Sabry (16:55):
For sure.
But something like APOE4 maybe important for Alzheimer's
disease regardless of age.
Simone Fishburn (17:00):
Right.
I think that one
Selina Koch (17:01):
is, yeah, it was just a guess.
Simone Fishburn (17:03):
I think what was interesting, like one
thing I noticed that theyactually drew a distinction
between the sort of termaging and longevity, right?
So that, you know, longevitybeing the goal, being to
extend your life, which isyou pointed out for clinical
trials, is very problematic.
James Sabry (17:16):
Correct.
Stephen Hansen (17:17):
Well, James, I know you had some other thoughts
from a few of the other panels.
I think you maybe sat in onthe, uh, the obesity panel.
Yeah.
James Sabry (17:23):
Stephen O'Rahilly from Cambridge gave a re some
really interesting thoughtstowards the end of the
panel on obesity, which was.
You know, obviouslyvery relevant to what's
going on right now.
the one thing I likedparticularly was that he
started to reframe how we thinkabout some of these diseases.
He referred to obesityas a neurologic disease.
Because of the mechanism ofaction of the incretins being in
the nervous system, particularlybrainstem, et cetera, which
(17:44):
is really interesting because,you know, it, challenges us to
think about the disease fromits fundamental pathophysiology.
The other thing he said, whichI think is solely true, is
that the skeletal muscle systemis not simply a contractile
organ, but a metabolic organ.
This is probably also trueof bone and other organs
that we have that we thinkof in structural terms, but
they have this big metaboliccomponent that could be
(18:06):
harnessed for new therapies.
Simone Fishburn (18:08):
I wrote down his quote was like, obesity
is not a fat cell disease.
It's a brain disease.
and in a way that sort oftaps back into what you
were saying, that I thinkmore and more we are sort of
seeing diseases redefined ortechnology boundaries redefined
beyond where we've sort ofclassically pigeonholed them.
Selina Koch (18:28):
The other thing I really loved about that talk
is his idea of, like the,uh, thermostat mechanism, like
there's a homeostatic mechanismthat sets your weight in a
certain range and wheneveryou perturb it, it wants
to kind of come back there.
So if you can unravel thebiology of homeostasis,
maybe you have a way into
James Sabry (18:44):
that said point I mean, similar to things
like calcium level in theblood or, or body temperature,
Stephen Hansen (18:49):
it's, that is I think, kind of the holy
grail of in obesity treatment.
I think it's, it's still.
You know, I think there's stillsome debate around obviously
where that biology revolves and,and, but it's, it is definitely
the dream is like, can yousomehow adjust homeostasis
Simone Fishburn (19:02):
and, and sorry, going back to the
dream and your parallel,he drew the parallel right.
With cardiovasculardisease that.
In however many years, muchas people just take statins
or whatever now to reduce,to reduce hypertension in
order to offset all theseother morbidities that come
with high blood pressure.
So it will be with obesitymedications in, I dunno,
(19:23):
James, how many years?
James Sabry (19:24):
Yeah.
What, whatever number of years.
But it's, it, the ideaof, of being able to take
something in a preventive way.
That's inexpensive and hencewidely available like a statin
is, I think it, it is ogres,well for the eventual large
population health of societies.
Michelle Jones (19:40):
Yeah.
And I think to do thatthough, it needs to be more
accessible in particulararound, being orally available.
And that really leads ontothe small molecule panels
that we had that, you know,I think there's lots of.
lots of work thatneeds to be done there.
If you want to turn itinto preventative editing,
it's gotta be horrible.
It's gotta be much easier toget that patient compliance.
Simone Fishburn (20:00):
Yeah, I mean actually for me, one of
the highlights was the smallmolecule panel and they also, in
that context, discussed a littlebit about what's the definition
of a small molecule, you know,even extended to is a peptide,
small molecule, and so on.
One of the things that stoodout to me in that panel was,
Lee Cronin from Glasgow.
He was, he was very interestingand this was when the
(20:22):
conversation went to ai.
And obviously that's been abig, you know, AI and genomics
being big, Strengths, let'ssay in, in the U.K. and
this was AI in the contextof small molecule creation.
And what was veryinteresting was that he
was saying It's not only.
Coming up with thatfinal molecule.
It's also about the syntheticpathway to getting there.
(20:44):
And so he drew this analogy bysaying like, if you go to Google
Maps, it might tell you thatRoute A is shorter, but Route B,
which is more circuitous, mightactually be faster and better.
And so it can be that AI is.
Also helping U.S. optimizethe synthetic root.
He's actually infavor of complexity.
'cause I think that protectsyou, uh, from an IP point of
(21:06):
view or I dunno what you'llhave thoughts about that.
His
James Sabry (21:08):
comments on, on building ultimately
complex molecules I thinkwas very interesting
because and you said therereally are two limitations.
One is modeling out the complexmolecule and its binding site
onto a moving protein that hassalvation spheres around it, but
also the synthetic roots, as youpoint out, are also challenging.
But the more we can unleashcomplex molecules, into
(21:28):
the pharmacopia, thebetter because of their
specificity and effectiveness.
Yes,
Selina Koch (21:32):
I would say it's not just about the
ip, it's the specificity.
Yeah.
Michelle Jones (21:34):
I think the ability potentially explore
unchartered chemistry spaceas well as getting, using ai,
not just to get there quicker,but to get to somewhere
different quicker, I thinkis, is really powerful and a
really promising opportunity.
Stephen Hansen (21:48):
So from all of this, I mean, is the basic
takeaway that small moleculesrock, is that basically
the, I think they were,
Simone Fishburn (21:53):
they, they were sort of really making the case,
Hey listen, I know you got allthese other sexy new modalities,
but small molecules are stillwhere money at kind of thing.
Stephen Hansen (22:02):
I, I do actually want to ask Simone a question
do, was it on purpose that wehad the biologics panel and
the small molecules panel likeimmediately after each other?
'cause like, I almost thoughtit was sort of like a west
side, kind of like Jetsversus Sharks kind of thing,
where they were like, who'syou got the better modality,
James Sabry (22:15):
U.K. versus France?
Stephen Hansen (22:16):
Yeah.
Simone Fishburn (22:18):
Well, we hadn't thought about it
quite as antagonistically.
We thought about itin the collaboration.
Stephen Hansen (22:24):
True, true, uh,
Simone Fishbur (22:25):
you know, sense.
Um, maybe U.K. Belgium, um,as to carry on a thread.
So yeah, it wasn't acoincidence, but we had not
really pitted it as needingto defend your, your turf.
Stephen Hansen (22:35):
Fair enough.
James Sabry (22:36):
And in a similar way that we talked about, you
know, global collaborationsgeographically in the end,
really effective medicines rock.
Stephen Hansen (22:42):
Yes.
Good point, James.
Good point James.
So, uh, you know, we obviouslylots of other great panels and
sessions here, including, we hada fireside chat, where Simone,
sat down with AstraZeneca's,Shaun Grady James, do you mind
just sharing maybe a thoughtor two that you had about,
uh, about that, that talk?
James Sabry (22:57):
It, it was so great to see Shaun, I've known him for
years in his BD capacity, butnow he's taken a job as chairman
of the U.K. for AstraZeneca.
And he dropped a zillionnames and because he's such
a good guy, he then had toapologize to the audience
about hobnobbing with theroyals and bumping up against
Kings and Macron and all that.
But, um, but then hemade a really interesting
comment was how.
(23:17):
AstraZeneca as itreformed its pipeline.
Not only was it acquisitive,did many collaborations to
bring in new molecules into thecompany, but it also had to get
rid of some of the moleculesthat were at the company in
order to make room for those.
And that's a reallyimportant point I think,
for every large company,most medium-sized companies
and even small companiesto take into consideration.
Michelle Jones (23:39):
I mean, I, I can chip in.
I mean, I think, youknow, one of those
themes is collaboration.
And, you know, I thinkthere's been a lot of, talk
about collaborations hereat these sessions today and
yesterday, and that, youknow, Astex has always done
a lot of collaborations withpharma companies, with biotech
companies, with academia, andit's a really great way of.
Bringing new science andinnovation into companies.
And I think, you know, Seantalked about that and I
(24:00):
think it's important for all,companies to really be looking
out there to explore the bestinnovations and securing the
best science to take forward.
And it's not about, you know,there's not, not invented him
mentality can be very strong.
And, and I think that'ssomething that all institutes
need to be really careful of.
Simone Fishburn (24:18):
taking the collaboration thread
and, and going back tothe, To the sciencey bit.
you know, what we had was, wehad the panel on biobanking
that Selina moderated verywell, and obviously genomics
is a big part of Cambridgeand the UK's strength.
There's a little bit of a commonthread for me here as well.
We've talked about in the sortof same sense as the small
(24:39):
molecule, like part of the.
Part of the status appears tobe mapping this path ahead.
We sort of have a sense ofwhat the technology can do,
but now we understand that wehave to, you know, lay down
those Google Maps, as it were.
And, you know, there was a, acomment on the Biobank panel
about creating risk predictionmodels and quantifying risk,
(25:01):
and I felt that this is partof the journey by which I mean
the U.K. Biobank is alreadydelivering for, and you might
have used it actually, James,you know, in your companies
you might talk about that.
So it's already.
Delivering things, but we'vegot our future health as well
and we have this sense thatthere are these data lakes and
I think we are moving beyondthe just constructing data
lakes to starting to work outhow to interrogate them and as
(25:24):
I said, create those pathways.
And I'm hoping in ground rounds,and I dunno how many years we'll
start to be talking more aboutthe fruits of them and what
are your thoughts about that?
Selina Koch (25:34):
So, the mantra of human biology and drug
development has been, youknow, said over and over at
all of these conferences we'vebeen going to for a decade.
I think the thing that struckme really, which I said on
the panel, I'll just repeatit here, uh, is that, um,
you have all these, youhave the scale of the datas.
Really increasing rightnow you have the layers
(25:56):
of the omics also scalingand becoming available.
You have much better tools formeasuring these different kinds
of analytes, and this is allhappening at the same time that
we're having this AI revolution.
So yeah, we may hopefully maybeapp approaching some sort of
a tipping point where actuallythe promise of human biology
(26:18):
and drug development, whichis to increase success rates
in the clinic actually startsmaking a difference in like
a, a larger scale, you know?
James Sabry (26:26):
I, I mean, I think there's a real opportunity
for human genetics to notonly inform the natural
history of a disease, andthat's been what many of these
biobanks have been focused on.
But even more importantly,and this was touched on
in the panel, the treatedhistory of a disease.
'cause now that we have manytherapies, thinking what are
the genetic elements thatwould predict response, predict
resistance, these kinds ofthings in over time in the
(26:49):
treated history of the disease.
There's some realopportunities there.
Simone Fishburn (26:52):
Yeah.
Stephen Hansen (26:53):
Wonderful.
Well, I, I, you know, Ithink just maybe one final
thought before we, uh, beforewe wrap up here, obviously
I know James, you, you andAlex Schuth from Denali.
You guys had a verywonderful panel with
also, a partner from PJT.
Simone Fishbur (27:04):
Moderated by me.
Is that what yourpointing at me for
Stephen Ha (27:07):
Moderated by Simone.
Simone Fishburn (27:10):
Okay.
Stephen Hansen (27:10):
I was actually hoping you might insert the
name of the PJT partner.
Um, but I, I thought itwas very interesting.
There were a couple quotesthat I, that I did sort of
jot down that I thought were,were quite fun and maybe,
maybe a fun way to end on.
So, James, you had a comment,that, some, maybe more than
some deals are pulled out ofthe toilets at dinner, uh,
meetings, um, which I thoughtwas sort of an important.
(27:32):
You know, reminder of the, ofthe personal connection and the
trust that you have to buildwith prospective partners.
James Sabry (27:36):
Yeah.
And until, until you actuallyget deep into business
development, either on the buyside or the sell side, you think
of it as a highly analyticalprocess about valuations
and negotiations, which,and that's a very important
part of it, but there's thisvery human part of it, which
is developing trust and arelationship with the company.
And that can take.
Months, years to do sometimesand dinners are, are,
(27:58):
are one way to do that.
I think a very effective wayand a, a tool in the, uh,
effective BD professionals bag.
Michelle Jones (28:05):
Yeah, and I, I think you also touched on
the fact how important it isto have a champion in the,
in the other organizationand that really, you know,
mirrors our experience as well.
Having, having a championon both sides of the
deal is really importantfor the deal's success.
Stephen Hansen (28:19):
And, and then finally, one, one final quote
from your panel, which I'm gonnabe totally shameless about, um,
Alex, uh, commenting on, youknow, that if you want to know
about your prospective partner,what should you do, Simone?
Simone Fishburn (28:30):
You should read BioCentury.
Stephen Hansen (28:32):
That's right.
That's what he said.
So, um.
On that.
I think we should, uh, weshould bring this to an end.
thank you all for,joining U.S. today.
Uh, thank you to our liveaudience, for being here for
the special edition of theBioCentury this week podcast.
thanks to all of ourlisteners for tuning in.
we will catch you next week,uh, wherever you get your
podcasts, or in the case ofour audience, uh, next year for
(28:54):
Grand Rounds 2026 U.S. in June.
In Seattle, for Grand RoundsEurope next September in a
as yet be disclosed location.
also hold on, the BioCenturyThis Week podcast.
We will be back on theroad, uh, later this fall,
November 19th in London forour third, biotech, CEO and
(29:16):
investor reception during theLondon Life Sciences Week.
the exclusive gatheringwill have some live music.
where I am told thatSimone will be singing.
Is that right, Simone?
No.
So not.
That's not right.
Okay.
Maybe that's stillunder negotiation.
We'll figure that out.
I charge a lot more for that.
I think we should be anyways,um, in any case, we'll also
(29:39):
have a live recording of theBioCentury's This Week podcast,
great networking opportunities.
Uh, so join U.S. the BIA,Pioneer, Precision BioSearch
and other distinguished guestsfor that exclusive event in
November, to request an invite.
Please emailconferences@BioCentury.com.
thank you again for joining us.
and, uh, we willsee you next week.
Thank you.
Jeff Cranmer (30:03):
Kendall Square Orchestra provides the music
for BioCentury this week.
The group connects scienceand technology professionals
and other members of thegreater Boston community to
collaborate, innovate, andinspire through music, while
supporting causes relatedto healthcare and education.
[AI-generated transcript.]
Jeff Cranmer (00:02):
You are listening to a special edition Of the
BioCentury this week podcast.
recorded live on stagein Cambridge at the
third BioCentury GrandRounds conference.
And first to take place inEurope, grand Rounds Europe.
Like Grand Rounds, U.S. seeksto engage thought leaders at
(00:23):
the academia industry interface.
Now, here's your host,BioCentury's, Stephen Hansen.
Stephen Hansen (00:31):
Welcome to a special edition of the
BioCentury This week podcast.
I'm Stephen Hansen, directorof Biopharma Intelligence here
at BioCentury's, and we arecoming to you from the ancient
university town of Cambridge inthe U.K. The original Cambridge
as it were, uh, where we arewrapping up our first inaugural
Grand Rounds Europe conference.
(00:51):
Joining me to discuss keytakeaways from the event are
James Sabry, EVP, and ChiefBusiness Officer of BioMarin
Pharmaceutical, MichelleJones, chief Operating Officer
at Astex Pharmaceuticals.
And then from the BioCenturyside we have our illustrious vp.
Used to
Simone Fishburn (01:11):
be
Stephen Hansen (01:11):
esteemed.
I used to be esteemed.
You used to be esteemed.
Well, you're still esteemed,but you're also illustrious.
Right.
And editor in chief,Simone Fishburn.
And then our talented executiveeditor and head of intelligence
and research, Selina Koch.
so thank you.
Uh, first off to our sponsorsagain for a tremendous
conference over the pastfew days, believe that
they achieved sort of theunthinkable, in terms of
(01:34):
having two days of pretty.
Great weather, uh, whichI did not think was gonna
happen having this inCambridge in the fall.
I'm so glad.
'cause
Simone Fishburn (01:42):
I thought you were gonna say two
days of pretty good panels,which is totally thinkable.
Stephen Hansen (01:47):
Oh, they were more than just, they
were more than just good.
No, but.
The weather also seems tocooperate better than expected.
So, but you're right.
We also have had two and ahalf days of panel discussions,
uh, meetings, firesidechats about the future of
translational medicine andin Europe's role in it.
So I think we should,we should dive right in.
So, Simone, as normal,I'm gonna start with you.
(02:08):
I would like you to giveme, uh, you know, maybe
one or two of your keytakeaways from this week.
Simone Fishburn (02:13):
Right.
So I, I want to start withjust sort of stipulating to
the fact that Grand Roundsis really a very geeky,
sciencey conference, bringingtogether academic innovators
together with thought leadersfrom Venture World Pharma.
biotech and, and more.
and so we are going to getinto some of the key scientific
(02:33):
takeaways, but it's also aboutan ecosystem here in the U.K.
where, you know, biotechhas been growing and growing
and then this conferencecame on the heels of some.
Sort of big blows to theecosystem in terms of Merck
deciding to, withdraw on a$1 billion, facility that
(02:55):
it was, building in Londonand followed by Lily and
AstraZeneca saying they mightpull back on their presence.
And so I wanna startwith just a little bit of
discussion about the, thegeneral environment here.
We had two, sessions, thatwere really fantastic.
We had a debate with theSteve Bates, who is the CEO
(03:16):
of the BIA, which is the UK'sversion of BIO, and soon to be.
Some very big, the nextdirector or some big, big
poobah in, um, office of LifeSciences in the government.
I
Stephen Hansen (03:28):
think Big Poobah is the official
Simone Fishburn (03:30):
I think Big, Poobah, I think
is the official title.
And then Jérôme VanBiervliet from uh, VIB.
They did a great debate onwhether this is the UK's.
Moment for biotech.
I'm gonna come to a coupleof those things in a minute.
And then we had a great firesidechat moderated by Kate Bingham
who as people will remember,led the Vaccine Task Force
is a, a premier investor,uh, managing director at,
(03:50):
uh, SV Life Sciences and, uh,Patrick Valance, Lord Patrick
Valance to you, who is theMinister for Life Sciences.
And I, I just wanna makea couple of comments,
about my take home.
On the vibe here.
So there's no questionthat these were like kind
of big body blows, right?
And that definitely, there was aneed to respond and I think what
(04:12):
we heard and, you know, tuneinto BioCentury's and read it.
Next week we'll be writingmore about this, but
the minister definitelygave the message that.
He has heard and he plansto convey to the government
that he's heard, the urgency,the importance of resolving.
I think what most peopleagree, the real problem
(04:34):
is around drug pricing.
You know, it may be dressedup as a few other things here
and there, and Merck may haveits own issues and we can talk
about that, but there is avery big need to address that
amount of spend in the NHS.
We'll, elaborate,as I said on that.
In another place.
Um, but I, I also wantedto, make the point that
he and he talking withKate and Steve Jerome.
(04:55):
And just the vibe here.
It may have been a bodyblow, but there's still
tremendous enthusiasm.
Nobody is walking aroundtalking about the death of U.K.
biotech, you know, grosslyoverstated as some would
say, prematurely announced.
So I think there's just,you know, a feeling that
that's gotta be resolved.
But at the innovation level andat the energy level, There's
(05:15):
still a lot of value hereand people creating value and
people believing that they'recreating value and a lot of
thirst also for the kind of,input and advice that they can
get from people like you, Jamesfrom pharma or an ex pharma
BD people and from investors.
And so I feel like there'sstill a very healthy buzz here.
(05:37):
At the same time as therebeing a kind of like,
yikes, what's happening?
James Sabry (05:42):
Yeah.
One thing that, that Iappreciated was that although
there was, uh, some joyfulbanter on France versus the
U.K. um, and France did not comeout well, and I'm sure the U.K.
would not come out well ifthis was being held in France.
But, uh, besides thatbanter, in the end, I think
it was very clear that ourindustry does really well.
Only when there are wideopen borders for talent
(06:02):
flow, for capital flow, forglobal collaborations, and
that kind of came out as anunderscore I think throughout
the whole conference.
Stephen Hansen (06:09):
Yeah, I mean, Michelle, you're, you're sort of
our local, local hero here, sortof maybe the local hero effect.
Could you talk a little bitabout sort of what, what
your perspective was fromthe takeaway from the week?
Michelle Jones (06:18):
Yeah.
No, I think it's reallygreat that BioCentury Grand
Rounds has come to Cambridge,has come to Europe, but in
particular come to Cambridge.
I really, uh, think theCambridge ecosystem has
really been grateful forthe opportunity to showcase
everything that's going onin the, in this environment.
It's a thriving.
Community of academics, VCs,pharma execs, and I think,
(06:39):
there has been a lot ofenergy around in the room.
I've seen the buzz out inthe corridors and that's
been really great to see.
A lot of partnering meetings,a lot of companies presenting.
There's a real burgeoninglife science, in particular
biotech community here inCambridge and Astex, who's been
here for t over 25 years now.
Is really proud to be part ofthat and to contribute to that.
(07:00):
And we have a number ofinteractions with research
institutes across theCambridge ecosystem.
We are part of the Milner whoare one of your sponsors here.
We have academic relationshipswith a number of the academics
who were, Over here today,David Klenerman, Matthew
Garnett at the Sanger are allacademics that we work with
at, at Astex and, and someof the companies that have,
(07:20):
they've been spinning out aswell, like Mosaic and Base Rx.
I'm also minded of the panelbefore about, uh, quantum
computing, you know, lookingto the future as well.
Astex has a. Also a relationshipwith a, a biotech company
here in Cambridge calledRiverlane who've been at the
forefront of quantum computing.
So I think there's a lotof great stuff going on
in Cambridge, and I thinkwe really appreciate that
(07:43):
we've had an opportunityto, to showcase that to the
wider BioCentury's audience.
Simone Fishburn (07:47):
Actually, can I just follow that with
one point, because one of thethings that we have done with,
BioCentury Grand Rounds and ispart of the kind of what, what
I call the thesis of it is, isalso to bring innovators and
investors from everywhere else.
And so that's beena very significant
part of the audience.
So on the one hand we'veshowcased that, but on
the other hand, it's beengreat to see people from
(08:08):
Glasgow and Edinburgh andother parts of Europe and
innovators from everywhere.
And that really goesback to your point there.
It is about creating, youknow, we've always believed
that by a century, thosecross border connections
are what makes this tick.
So, you know, I, I thinkthat's been, that's
been quite fun to see.
And as I said, even againstthe backdrop of that sort
of very, kind of what feltlike alarming news, you,
(08:29):
you don't see sort of.
Long faces or too much,except a few people from
Merck had pretty long faces.
Michelle Jones (08:35):
I, I was just gonna say, I mean,
and there's only lots ofpositivity on the panels that
have all been presented here.
Obviously the ones that werefocused on the economics, and
some of those big, you know,body blows as you said to the
U.K. life science industry.
But overall, I think, Isense that there was enormous
positivity and innovationand science are really
at the forefront of that.
And I think the, the politicalpressures will be what they
(08:55):
will be, but I think as longas everybody keeps focusing
on the science, that that'sreally primary importance.
Stephen Hansen (09:01):
Speaking of sort of the AI and the things
there, I mean, Simone, I thinkyou, you also wanted to talk
maybe a bit about some of the,what we saw from the AI and
like chemical space and sort ofsome of the mapping and things.
what was your takeawayfrom one of those?
I think one of thosepanels as well.
Simone Fishburn (09:13):
Do you wanna go first to Selina?
That was linked.
Selina Koch (09:15):
So this is a geeky conference as Simone described,
and so I thought maybe wecould talk about science.
Stephen Hans (09:23):
Yeah, let's do it.
Let's it, what, what doyou wanna talk about?
So, um,
Selina Koch (09:26):
let's see.
Well, we have two keynote,we had two keynotes, which
I thought were really great.
Um, so I'll start there.
One was Steve Jackson.
Um, well known for his work onDNA damage repair pathways and
for work that led to Lynparza.
I think the thing that struckme most about that one.
was just the utility of thatpathway outside of cancer.
So these, um, DNA damagerepair mutations are
(09:49):
driving certain ataxia.
I think a neuroscience is apromising area and even, in
repeat expansion diseases, youcan get these somatic mutations
of relearning in Huntington'sdisease that develop over the
course of one's lifetime andincrease the length of a repeat.
And lead to symptom onsetwhen there's a certain
length of that repeat.
And so that's a whole areathat I think is not, it's new
(10:12):
and it's really promising andhasn't been super tapped yet.
So that's one.
The other one was, wait, lemmejust get, can I just interrupt
Simone Fishburn (10:17):
that?
'cause one of the things that Ithought was really interesting,
and we will be looking atthis, is the fact that.
You know, you had Lynparzaand there was this expectation
that they would uncover awhole lot of like, pairs
of genes that would be, youknow, DDR, you know, pairs.
And that hasn't yet happened.
And so there's a sortof question at the same
(10:38):
time as it's expandinginto other disease areas.
There's a question as to thereis where hasn't it even gone
further than it has in a cancer?
Stephen Hansen (10:44):
Yeah.
Selina Koch (10:45):
Re synthetic, uh, rescue.
Do you wanna
Stephen Hansen (10:48):
Well, I, I was, I was actually gonna
give, one fun fact that Ilearned from, uh, during Steve
Jackson's fun, or like, maybemore mind blowing, at least
the word, what I thought of.
But he, you know, he notedduring his lecture that, um,
that the DNA in every oneof our cells is damaged in
some way more than a hundredthousand times every day, and
(11:08):
then subsequently repaired.
And I'm still.
Kind of trying to wrapmy mind around that,
that that occurrence.
Um, so that, thatreally stuck with me.
Simone Fishburn (11:17):
yeah.
You know, my, my pi, when I didmy, um, postdoc used to have a,
what in England we call a badge,and the Americans call a button
saying, I know it looks like I'mdoing nothing, but at a cellular
level, I'm really very busy.
Stephen Hanse (11:30):
That's very good.
Well, maybe maybe on thatnote, on being active,
we will take a break.
We will come back andthen we can talk more
science when we return.
So hang with us.
Alanna Farro (11:40):
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(12:01):
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Stephen Hansen (12:17):
And we are back, live here from Churchill College
at the University of Cambridge.
before we dive back into thegeeky science that I know
Selina is dying to tell youmore about, first, uh, we have
started, from our first fewlive podcasts we've started
something of a tradition,of encouraging our guests.
Even sometimes our audiencemembers, if they wanna join in.
(12:38):
to wear some colorfulor extravagant, uh,
socks to our show.
Maybe I'll start off,if you don't mind.
Uh, I can show theaudience what I have.
So I have, Cambridge sockson my right side showing the,
um, punting in the cam, river.
But, having been someone whowent to Oxford, I also have, uh,
an Oxford sock on the other sideshowing the SPIs of the city.
(13:01):
So kind of sitting on the fence,you know, trying to be polite.
Are you
Simone Fishburn (13:04):
right?
Are you right footed or left?
Footed
Michelle (13:06):
Oxford socks allowed.
That's why it's on the left.
Moja, I, I think wemight have to evict you.
Stephen Hansen (13:12):
I'm trying, I'm trying to live in both
camps, so, um, but maybe,maybe, uh, we can, go around
here and have everyonetell me what their socks
are, even though, uh, it's.
Simone shamelessly forgotto bring her socks.
I just, I do want topoint that out explicitly.
but maybe James, you can tell mewhat, uh, what you've got going
with your, with your socks.
Yeah.
I'm
James Sabry (13:28):
wearing my Canadian moose socks.
Uh, an underappreciatedanimal, especially in
Europe, but in Canada it'svery much appreciated.
I'm Canadian.
Much bigger than
Stephen Hansen (13:36):
you expect in real life actually.
Yeah.
James Sabry (13:37):
Muir Lake.
Exactly.
But, uh, the Canadian flag'son there just to fly the
excellent, the national colors.
Excellent.
Uh,
Stephen Hansen (13:42):
Selina.
Selina Koch (13:44):
Science, like magic, but real.
Stephen Hansen (13:48):
That's good.
That's good.
And, uh, Michelle, what,uh, what, what do you got
going on with your sock game?
Michelle Jones (13:53):
Yeah, so, um, in jarring blue against my
black and white monochromeoutfits, um, I went for
jazzy, structure of DNA Helix,which obviously was famously,
Discovered in Cambridge, butalso ably supported by the x-ray
structures of Rosalind Franklin.
And those of you whoknow familiar with Astex
structure is at the centerof everything we do.
(14:14):
So, uh,
Stephen Hansen (14:15):
perfect.
Michelle Jones (14:15):
They, they felt like a good
choice, very appropriate.
Simone Fishburn (14:17):
I'd just like to defend myself here.
Okay.
Stephen Hansen (14:19):
You can try.
Simone Fishburn (14:19):
I did forget about the socks.
It's true.
But I thought I'd show thenails, especially as I realized
that they're actually inCambridge Blue, so they go.
You have light blue,light blue nails.
Yeah, that's good.
Stephen Hansen (14:30):
That's good.
Okay.
All right.
we'll let you out anyways.
let's return to ourgeeky, science discussion.
Selina, I think there,there were sort of two
sort of keynotes that youhad wanted to touch on.
I'll let you talk aboutthe first one and then
I abruptly cut you off.
Why don't we, uh, carry onwith the, with the second one?
No problem at
Selina Koch (14:45):
all.
The second one was SarahTeichmann who showcased,
uh, an example of the powerof spatial transcriptomics.
In resolving the cellular,you know, at the single
cell level, the complexityof an organ, in this case,
the thymus and its molecularmilieu, and how it changes
over the course of a lifetime.
And, relating that to,the hallmarks of aging
(15:09):
and to disease phenotypes.
And I think James mighthave some thoughts
on the aging panel.
James Sabry (15:15):
uh, the one thing that I found very interesting
about that aging panel was.
the question or hypothesisthat aging could be a driver
of disease and therefore ifyou actually, interfere with
the aging process itself,you may be able to have
an effect of the disease.
But in some ways, the, thereal question in front of all
of those scientists is, isaging simply correlated with
the disease and thereforegoing after the biology
(15:36):
of the disease itself?
Rather than aging is actuallya more fruitful way to develop
effective therapeutics withthe caveat that there may be
certain diseases that trulyare driven by aging, but
most diseases tend to show aphenotype where they're more
common the older you are.
Simone Fishburn (15:52):
explain.
So I think what those people inthat field are saying is they're
more common the older you are.
Therefore, aging is afactor in those diseases.
Selina Koch (16:02):
I think one way to think about it is somebody
says, I'm studying APOE4 inthe context of Alzheimer's.
'Cause it's a risk factor.
It's correlated.
Nobody says, well, youshouldn't study that.
They're like, that's obviouslysomething worth investigating.
So if age is an even biggerlike risk factor, it seems
like it's worth the hypothesis.
But I think the problem isthat it's just a h Like APOE4
(16:23):
is a very discreet entity,whereas agents is very complex
thing that's not well defined.
And how do you even go about it?
Yeah, yeah,
James Sabry (16:28):
exactly.
And the idea of doing a clinicaltrial to slow down aging is
a bit of a daunting thought.
Right.
Simone Fishburn (16:33):
And and I think that.
I think they did stipulate tothe idea that clinical trials
on it is quite far off right.
But understandingthe mechanisms of it.
So if you're saying thatwe know that, I don't know,
you know, skin elasticity isone that they talked about
or various other things offeatures that you uncover those
pathways and maybe they revealdisease processes to you.
(16:54):
For sure.
James Sabry (16:55):
For sure.
But something like APOE4 maybe important for Alzheimer's
disease regardless of age.
Simone Fishburn (17:00):
Right.
I think that one
Selina Koch (17:01):
is, yeah, it was just a guess.
Simone Fishburn (17:03):
I think what was interesting, like one
thing I noticed that theyactually drew a distinction
between the sort of termaging and longevity, right?
So that, you know, longevitybeing the goal, being to
extend your life, which isyou pointed out for clinical
trials, is very problematic.
James Sabry (17:16):
Correct.
Stephen Hansen (17:17):
Well, James, I know you had some other thoughts
from a few of the other panels.
I think you maybe sat in onthe, uh, the obesity panel.
Yeah.
James Sabry (17:23):
Stephen O'Rahilly from Cambridge gave a re some
really interesting thoughtstowards the end of the
panel on obesity, which was.
You know, obviouslyvery relevant to what's
going on right now.
the one thing I likedparticularly was that he
started to reframe how we thinkabout some of these diseases.
He referred to obesityas a neurologic disease.
Because of the mechanism ofaction of the incretins being in
the nervous system, particularlybrainstem, et cetera, which
(17:44):
is really interesting because,you know, it, challenges us to
think about the disease fromits fundamental pathophysiology.
The other thing he said, whichI think is solely true, is
that the skeletal muscle systemis not simply a contractile
organ, but a metabolic organ.
This is probably also trueof bone and other organs
that we have that we thinkof in structural terms, but
they have this big metaboliccomponent that could be
(18:06):
harnessed for new therapies.
Simone Fishburn (18:08):
I wrote down his quote was like, obesity
is not a fat cell disease.
It's a brain disease.
and in a way that sort oftaps back into what you
were saying, that I thinkmore and more we are sort of
seeing diseases redefined ortechnology boundaries redefined
beyond where we've sort ofclassically pigeonholed them.
Selina Koch (18:28):
The other thing I really loved about that talk
is his idea of, like the,uh, thermostat mechanism, like
there's a homeostatic mechanismthat sets your weight in a
certain range and wheneveryou perturb it, it wants
to kind of come back there.
So if you can unravel thebiology of homeostasis,
maybe you have a way into
James Sabry (18:44):
that said point I mean, similar to things
like calcium level in theblood or, or body temperature,
Stephen Hansen (18:49):
it's, that is I think, kind of the holy
grail of in obesity treatment.
I think it's, it's still.
You know, I think there's stillsome debate around obviously
where that biology revolves and,and, but it's, it is definitely
the dream is like, can yousomehow adjust homeostasis
Simone Fishburn (19:02):
and, and sorry, going back to the
dream and your parallel,he drew the parallel right.
With cardiovasculardisease that.
In however many years, muchas people just take statins
or whatever now to reduce,to reduce hypertension in
order to offset all theseother morbidities that come
with high blood pressure.
So it will be with obesitymedications in, I dunno,
(19:23):
James, how many years?
James Sabry (19:24):
Yeah.
What, whatever number of years.
But it's, it, the ideaof, of being able to take
something in a preventive way.
That's inexpensive and hencewidely available like a statin
is, I think it, it is ogres,well for the eventual large
population health of societies.
Michelle Jones (19:40):
Yeah.
And I think to do thatthough, it needs to be more
accessible in particulararound, being orally available.
And that really leads ontothe small molecule panels
that we had that, you know,I think there's lots of.
lots of work thatneeds to be done there.
If you want to turn itinto preventative editing,
it's gotta be horrible.
It's gotta be much easier toget that patient compliance.
Simone Fishburn (20:00):
Yeah, I mean actually for me, one of
the highlights was the smallmolecule panel and they also, in
that context, discussed a littlebit about what's the definition
of a small molecule, you know,even extended to is a peptide,
small molecule, and so on.
One of the things that stoodout to me in that panel was,
Lee Cronin from Glasgow.
He was, he was very interestingand this was when the
(20:22):
conversation went to ai.
And obviously that's been abig, you know, AI and genomics
being big, Strengths, let'ssay in, in the U.K. and
this was AI in the contextof small molecule creation.
And what was veryinteresting was that he
was saying It's not only.
Coming up with thatfinal molecule.
It's also about the syntheticpathway to getting there.
(20:44):
And so he drew this analogy bysaying like, if you go to Google
Maps, it might tell you thatRoute A is shorter, but Route B,
which is more circuitous, mightactually be faster and better.
And so it can be that AI is.
Also helping U.S. optimizethe synthetic root.
He's actually infavor of complexity.
'cause I think that protectsyou, uh, from an IP point of
(21:06):
view or I dunno what you'llhave thoughts about that.
His
James Sabry (21:08):
comments on, on building ultimately
complex molecules I thinkwas very interesting
because and you said therereally are two limitations.
One is modeling out the complexmolecule and its binding site
onto a moving protein that hassalvation spheres around it, but
also the synthetic roots, as youpoint out, are also challenging.
But the more we can unleashcomplex molecules, into
(21:28):
the pharmacopia, thebetter because of their
specificity and effectiveness.
Yes,
Selina Koch (21:32):
I would say it's not just about the
ip, it's the specificity.
Yeah.
Michelle Jones (21:34):
I think the ability potentially explore
unchartered chemistry spaceas well as getting, using ai,
not just to get there quicker,but to get to somewhere
different quicker, I thinkis, is really powerful and a
really promising opportunity.
Stephen Hansen (21:48):
So from all of this, I mean, is the basic
takeaway that small moleculesrock, is that basically
the, I think they were,
Simone Fishburn (21:53):
they, they were sort of really making the case,
Hey listen, I know you got allthese other sexy new modalities,
but small molecules are stillwhere money at kind of thing.
Stephen Hansen (22:02):
I, I do actually want to ask Simone a question
do, was it on purpose that wehad the biologics panel and
the small molecules panel likeimmediately after each other?
'cause like, I almost thoughtit was sort of like a west
side, kind of like Jetsversus Sharks kind of thing,
where they were like, who'syou got the better modality,
James Sabry (22:15):
U.K. versus France?
Stephen Hansen (22:16):
Yeah.
Simone Fishburn (22:18):
Well, we hadn't thought about it
quite as antagonistically.
We thought about itin the collaboration.
Stephen Hansen (22:24):
True, true, uh,
Simone Fishbur (22:25):
you know, sense.
Um, maybe U.K. Belgium, um,as to carry on a thread.
So yeah, it wasn't acoincidence, but we had not
really pitted it as needingto defend your, your turf.
Stephen Hansen (22:35):
Fair enough.
James Sabry (22:36):
And in a similar way that we talked about, you
know, global collaborationsgeographically in the end,
really effective medicines rock.
Stephen Hansen (22:42):
Yes.
Good point, James.
Good point James.
So, uh, you know, we obviouslylots of other great panels and
sessions here, including, we hada fireside chat, where Simone,
sat down with AstraZeneca's,Shaun Grady James, do you mind
just sharing maybe a thoughtor two that you had about,
uh, about that, that talk?
James Sabry (22:57):
It, it was so great to see Shaun, I've known him for
years in his BD capacity, butnow he's taken a job as chairman
of the U.K. for AstraZeneca.
And he dropped a zillionnames and because he's such
a good guy, he then had toapologize to the audience
about hobnobbing with theroyals and bumping up against
Kings and Macron and all that.
But, um, but then hemade a really interesting
comment was how.
(23:17):
AstraZeneca as itreformed its pipeline.
Not only was it acquisitive,did many collaborations to
bring in new molecules into thecompany, but it also had to get
rid of some of the moleculesthat were at the company in
order to make room for those.
And that's a reallyimportant point I think,
for every large company,most medium-sized companies
and even small companiesto take into consideration.
Michelle Jones (23:39):
I mean, I, I can chip in.
I mean, I think, youknow, one of those
themes is collaboration.
And, you know, I thinkthere's been a lot of, talk
about collaborations hereat these sessions today and
yesterday, and that, youknow, Astex has always done
a lot of collaborations withpharma companies, with biotech
companies, with academia, andit's a really great way of.
Bringing new science andinnovation into companies.
And I think, you know, Seantalked about that and I
(24:00):
think it's important for all,companies to really be looking
out there to explore the bestinnovations and securing the
best science to take forward.
And it's not about, you know,there's not, not invented him
mentality can be very strong.
And, and I think that'ssomething that all institutes
need to be really careful of.
Simone Fishburn (24:18):
taking the collaboration thread
and, and going back tothe, To the sciencey bit.
you know, what we had was, wehad the panel on biobanking
that Selina moderated verywell, and obviously genomics
is a big part of Cambridgeand the UK's strength.
There's a little bit of a commonthread for me here as well.
We've talked about in the sortof same sense as the small
(24:39):
molecule, like part of the.
Part of the status appears tobe mapping this path ahead.
We sort of have a sense ofwhat the technology can do,
but now we understand that wehave to, you know, lay down
those Google Maps, as it were.
And, you know, there was a, acomment on the Biobank panel
about creating risk predictionmodels and quantifying risk,
(25:01):
and I felt that this is partof the journey by which I mean
the U.K. Biobank is alreadydelivering for, and you might
have used it actually, James,you know, in your companies
you might talk about that.
So it's already.
Delivering things, but we'vegot our future health as well
and we have this sense thatthere are these data lakes and
I think we are moving beyondthe just constructing data
lakes to starting to work outhow to interrogate them and as
(25:24):
I said, create those pathways.
And I'm hoping in ground rounds,and I dunno how many years we'll
start to be talking more aboutthe fruits of them and what
are your thoughts about that?
Selina Koch (25:34):
So, the mantra of human biology and drug
development has been, youknow, said over and over at
all of these conferences we'vebeen going to for a decade.
I think the thing that struckme really, which I said on
the panel, I'll just repeatit here, uh, is that, um,
you have all these, youhave the scale of the datas.
Really increasing rightnow you have the layers
(25:56):
of the omics also scalingand becoming available.
You have much better tools formeasuring these different kinds
of analytes, and this is allhappening at the same time that
we're having this AI revolution.
So yeah, we may hopefully maybeapp approaching some sort of
a tipping point where actuallythe promise of human biology
(26:18):
and drug development, whichis to increase success rates
in the clinic actually startsmaking a difference in like
a, a larger scale, you know?
James Sabry (26:26):
I, I mean, I think there's a real opportunity
for human genetics to notonly inform the natural
history of a disease, andthat's been what many of these
biobanks have been focused on.
But even more importantly,and this was touched on
in the panel, the treatedhistory of a disease.
'cause now that we have manytherapies, thinking what are
the genetic elements thatwould predict response, predict
resistance, these kinds ofthings in over time in the
(26:49):
treated history of the disease.
There's some realopportunities there.
Simone Fishburn (26:52):
Yeah.
Stephen Hansen (26:53):
Wonderful.
Well, I, I, you know, Ithink just maybe one final
thought before we, uh, beforewe wrap up here, obviously
I know James, you, you andAlex Schuth from Denali.
You guys had a verywonderful panel with
also, a partner from PJT.
Simone Fishbur (27:04):
Moderated by me.
Is that what yourpointing at me for
Stephen Ha (27:07):
Moderated by Simone.
Simone Fishburn (27:10):
Okay.
Stephen Hansen (27:10):
I was actually hoping you might insert the
name of the PJT partner.
Um, but I, I thought itwas very interesting.
There were a couple quotesthat I, that I did sort of
jot down that I thought were,were quite fun and maybe,
maybe a fun way to end on.
So, James, you had a comment,that, some, maybe more than
some deals are pulled out ofthe toilets at dinner, uh,
meetings, um, which I thoughtwas sort of an important.
(27:32):
You know, reminder of the, ofthe personal connection and the
trust that you have to buildwith prospective partners.
James Sabry (27:36):
Yeah.
And until, until you actuallyget deep into business
development, either on the buyside or the sell side, you think
of it as a highly analyticalprocess about valuations
and negotiations, which,and that's a very important
part of it, but there's thisvery human part of it, which
is developing trust and arelationship with the company.
And that can take.
Months, years to do sometimesand dinners are, are,
(27:58):
are one way to do that.
I think a very effective wayand a, a tool in the, uh,
effective BD professionals bag.
Michelle Jones (28:05):
Yeah, and I, I think you also touched on
the fact how important it isto have a champion in the,
in the other organizationand that really, you know,
mirrors our experience as well.
Having, having a championon both sides of the
deal is really importantfor the deal's success.
Stephen Hansen (28:19):
And, and then finally, one, one final quote
from your panel, which I'm gonnabe totally shameless about, um,
Alex, uh, commenting on, youknow, that if you want to know
about your prospective partner,what should you do, Simone?
Simone Fishburn (28:30):
You should read BioCentury.
Stephen Hansen (28:32):
That's right.
That's what he said.
So, um.
On that.
I think we should, uh, weshould bring this to an end.
thank you all for,joining U.S. today.
Uh, thank you to our liveaudience, for being here for
the special edition of theBioCentury this week podcast.
thanks to all of ourlisteners for tuning in.
we will catch you next week,uh, wherever you get your
podcasts, or in the case ofour audience, uh, next year for
(28:54):
Grand Rounds 2026 U.S. in June.
In Seattle, for Grand RoundsEurope next September in a
as yet be disclosed location.
also hold on, the BioCenturyThis Week podcast.
We will be back on theroad, uh, later this fall,
November 19th in London forour third, biotech, CEO and
(29:16):
investor reception during theLondon Life Sciences Week.
the exclusive gatheringwill have some live music.
where I am told thatSimone will be singing.
Is that right, Simone?
No.
So not.
That's not right.
Okay.
Maybe that's stillunder negotiation.
We'll figure that out.
I charge a lot more for that.
I think we should be anyways,um, in any case, we'll also
(29:39):
have a live recording of theBioCentury's This Week podcast,
great networking opportunities.
Uh, so join U.S. the BIA,Pioneer, Precision BioSearch
and other distinguished guestsfor that exclusive event in
November, to request an invite.
Please emailconferences@BioCentury.com.
thank you again for joining us.
and, uh, we willsee you next week.
Thank you.
Jeff Cranmer (30:03):
Kendall Square Orchestra provides the music
for BioCentury this week.
The group connects scienceand technology professionals
and other members of thegreater Boston community to
collaborate, innovate, andinspire through music, while
supporting causes relatedto healthcare and education.
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