April 23, 2025 • 11 mins
This week on BioTech Nation, Luminary Therapeutics CEO Jeff Liter shares how his team is working to make advanced cell therapy easier to access and more affordable. Instead of using each patient’s own cells, they use healthy donor cells that are ready to go. This approach could help more people get treated for cancer and autoimmune diseases like lupus, with just a single dose.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Moira Gunn (00:11):
Cell therapies, they've been a long time coming,
and even now they're veryexpensive, primarily because to
date, to be effective, we've hadto formulate them specifically
for each patient. What if thatcost could come down and be more
effective at the same time?Today I speak with Jeff Liter,
(00:34):
the President and CEO ofLuminary Therapeutics. Well,
Jeff, welcome to Biotech Nation.
Jeff Liter (00:41):
Thank you so much for having us. We really
appreciate it.
Dr. Moira Gunn (00:44):
Well, to me, this is a story of three
scientists and a guy, and you'rethe guy.
Jeff Liter (00:51):
That is correct.
Dr. Moira Gunn (00:52):
Yes. There is. So So tell us, who are the three
scientists? What were theyworking on? How did this come
together?
And where is the guy involved?
Jeff Liter (01:00):
Sure. So, at the University of Minnesota, there
are three scientists named DavidLarcasvada, Brandon Moriarty,
and Bo Weber. And I accidentallybumped into them in early twenty
sixteen, and they were workingon engineering immune cells. And
I had just come from a placewhere I was doing manufacturing
(01:23):
work with engineered immunecells. And so we just
accidentally got to talking tostart a company.
And we formed our first companycalled Beamogen in 2016, where
we developed a method toengineer these immune cells in a
brand new novel way that wasmuch more cost effective than
the way they typically areengineered.
Dr. Moira Gunn (01:44):
But you're luminary now. Did you just
change your name?
Jeff Liter (01:48):
No, we sold that company in 2019 and decided that
the four of us, the threescientists and a guy, worked
really well together. So wesaid, Well, let's develop a
therapeutic company where wecould use engineered cells to
cure cancer as well asautoimmune disorders. And more
importantly than that, we wantedto solve some very technical
(02:10):
problems in the cell therapyspace. So we set out to make
cell therapies much moreaccessible by creating a new way
to manufacture those particularcell therapies so that they
could be accessible. Right now,may not be known to your users,
but today for cell therapies,that's only available to twenty
(02:32):
percent of the people who reallyneed it.
So there's eighty percent of thepeople who are not getting
treated with cell therapies thatcould benefit from that.
Dr. Moira Gunn (02:41):
Why only twenty percent?
Jeff Liter (02:43):
Yeah, so right now for cell therapy, in order to
get that treatment, you have touse the sick patient's cells.
And that's where the currentstandard of care is. And it's
very expensive to be able totake the cancer patient's cells,
remove them from them, ship themoff to a manufacturing center,
(03:03):
and then ship them back. It'sextremely expensive, and it's
just only available at the majorcancer centers. So we felt that
there was a way to make many outof a healthy donor rather than
the sick patient, where we couldeffectively make that product
available to many, many patientsthat's off the shelf at the
(03:25):
hospital waiting for them.
Dr. Moira Gunn (03:27):
Well, words, words, words. You could say that
all you want. Now let me justask one little question here. I
get a confirmation on what youjust said earlier. When they
take the cells from the sickpatient, their patient's own
cells, and they send them off tothat center, not just to create
more of them, but they engineerthem to come back and fight
(03:47):
their own cancer, right?
Jeff Liter (03:49):
Yes, that's exactly right. They engineer them and to
recognize the cancer.
Dr. Moira Gunn (03:54):
Now let's acknowledge, you know, we've
done very well with thispersonalized or individual
cancer therapy. Some of you maybe familiar with it, it's called
CAR T. But this new approach,this next generation approach,
which Luminary is working on,tell us what you're trying to do
and why it can work.
Jeff Liter (04:15):
Yeah, so the work that we're doing at Luminary is
we're able to take a very smallsubset of immune cells that
effectively can go into anypatient without causing harm.
And within that very smallsubset, there's two kinds.
There's one that's called a Vdelta gamma one and a V delta
gamma two. And the beauty of ourproduct is we put both of those
(04:38):
together, and the V delta 2swill act as a rapid shock and
awe to the system to kind ofclear as many as they can, but
they don't persist and they goaway. Whereas the V delta 1s
will persist longer and clean upanything on Aisle 8 that didn't
get cleaned up before.
So that's a unique approach fromLuminary that we're quite
(04:58):
excited about getting into theclinic.
Dr. Moira Gunn (05:00):
The old one two punch. Is that what you call it?
Jeff Liter (05:03):
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And as
Dr. Moira Gunn (05:05):
I understand it, you're hitting three different
receptors on the cancer cell. Soif one can reject it, another
one can't. Is that the idea?
Jeff Liter (05:15):
That is exactly correct. Most of the companies
that are out there, you only useone antigen, but we've
engineered these in a fashionwhere we can attract three
different receptors, as younoted, and we only need one of
those to be present for theconnection to be made between
the cancer cell and the immunecell where it gets clearanced.
(05:36):
These are engineered in afashion where they have three
receptors on each cell. And tomake clearance happen for those
cancerous or pathogenic cells,we only need one of those three.
So those cells are it's veryhard for them to escape our
particular product.
Dr. Moira Gunn (05:54):
Preliminary has six programs underway, including
head and neck cancer, and and anumber of others. You have three
in phase one in humans. One isfor multiple myeloma, one for
non Hodgkin lymphoma, and onefor lupus. Now tell us about
these trials. How big are they?
(06:16):
Who are you treating? How longwill it take to read out?
Jeff Liter (06:20):
Yeah, so as you noted, these are phase one
trials. And in each one of thosethree trials, we're looking to
treat between fifteen andeighteen patients. For the non
Hodgkin lymphoma, that's the onethat we're the furthest ahead
on. We have treated fourpatients to date and had very
good results. On the multiplemyeloma, we have treated one
patient.
(06:41):
And then on the lupus trial, weexpect to treat our first
patient within the next threeweeks.
Dr. Moira Gunn (06:46):
Is this all the same drug?
Jeff Liter (06:49):
Yes, it is. And the fact that we've engineered these
cells to have these threedifferent receptors give them a
broad application, which is whywe were able to create three
different trials using the samedrugcell therapy.
Dr. Moira Gunn (07:04):
So what is it like being in these trials?
Jeff Liter (07:06):
Yeah, so for the patient, effectively they come
in and they go through a processto get the cells, and then
that's an infusion that happensto them. They typically are
staying around the hospital fortwo or three days just to make
sure that there's no sideeffects. And then effectively,
it's a one dose. So that's allthey need is a single dose. In
(07:28):
many cases, we're hoping for acure just from that single dose.
Dr. Moira Gunn (07:32):
Now, while they're hanging around the
hospital for three days, this isphase one. You don't anticipate
in the future, if this all comesto fruition, that they will have
to spend that kind of time.
Jeff Liter (07:44):
We do not. So the ability to treat side effects is
getting better and better, andthe side effects are very
minimal compared tochemotherapy. And so they will
be able to be treated as anoutpatient in the future.
Dr. Moira Gunn (07:58):
You keep talking about accessibility. You're in
Minnesota. The cells aremanufactured somewhere probably
in Minnesota. How are you makingthem accessible? Why can they be
so much more accessible?
Jeff Liter (08:13):
So once they've been engineered, they're frozen to a
very, very low temperaturecalled cryopreservation, and
they're able to be shippedanywhere across the world. They
can be sitting in any hospitalfor an off the shelf drug that a
patient could get the same daythey walked into the hospital.
Dr. Moira Gunn (08:31):
So this is going to be delivered anywhere, can be
delivered anywhere, ultimately.And that's the whole goal, so
that if you have one of thesecancers and you're eligible for
the cell therapy will work foryou, that you can get them
because they'll actually they'llgo into any human being.
Jeff Liter (08:51):
That is exactly right. And we're looking to make
sure that this product becomesavailable to the entire world
who needs these drugsdesperately.
Dr. Moira Gunn (09:00):
Let's be clear. The three programs you have in
phase one, two of them arecancers, and one of them is an
autoimmune disorder, lupus. Howdoes this work in the case of
lupus?
Jeff Liter (09:14):
So the B cells that are in a patient effectively can
either become cancerous or theycan become auto inflammatory. I
know those are technical terms,but the same product wipes out
those B cells either way,whether they're cancer or
they're auto inflammatory.
Dr. Moira Gunn (09:31):
So we're not just talking about treating
cancer, we're talking about anynumber of chronic diseases here.
Jeff Liter (09:39):
Yes, we are. And that's the true excitement of
these cell therapies, that theyhave applications that go well
beyond oncology and are movinginto the autoimmune disorders
with very, very good results.
Dr. Moira Gunn (09:51):
How well is the CAR T therapy working itself?
Jeff Liter (09:55):
So CAR T therapies for blood cancers get about a
fifty percent cure rate with onesingle dose. So far, the data is
still early, but in theseautoimmune disorders, there have
been eighty percent cure rates.So quite exciting times for cell
therapy to transform the waymedicine is practiced.
Dr. Moira Gunn (10:16):
This is what I call the technology side. You
know, better, faster, cheaper.Hey, this works. Can we get it
to you better? Can we get it toyou faster?
Can we get it to you cheaper?
Jeff Liter (10:26):
Exactly right. And that's what we've been focused
on as a company since we startedLuminary Therapeutics.
Dr. Moira Gunn (10:32):
Well, thank you so much, Jeff. Please come back
and see us again. Keep usupdated, if you will.
Jeff Liter (10:37):
We would love to.
Dr. Moira Gunn (10:38):
I've been speaking with Jeff Liter, the
President and CEO of LuminaryTherapeutics in Minneapolis,
Minnesota. More information isavailable on the web at
luminarytx.com.
Cell therapies, they've been a long time coming,
and even now they're veryexpensive, primarily because to
date, to be effective, we've hadto formulate them specifically
for each patient. What if thatcost could come down and be more
effective at the same time?Today I speak with Jeff Liter,
(00:34):
the President and CEO ofLuminary Therapeutics. Well,
Jeff, welcome to Biotech Nation.
Jeff Liter (00:41):
Thank you so much for having us. We really
appreciate it.
Dr. Moira Gunn (00:44):
Well, to me, this is a story of three
scientists and a guy, and you'rethe guy.
Jeff Liter (00:51):
That is correct.
Dr. Moira Gunn (00:52):
Yes. There is. So So tell us, who are the three
scientists? What were theyworking on? How did this come
together?
And where is the guy involved?
Jeff Liter (01:00):
Sure. So, at the University of Minnesota, there
are three scientists named DavidLarcasvada, Brandon Moriarty,
and Bo Weber. And I accidentallybumped into them in early twenty
sixteen, and they were workingon engineering immune cells. And
I had just come from a placewhere I was doing manufacturing
(01:23):
work with engineered immunecells. And so we just
accidentally got to talking tostart a company.
And we formed our first companycalled Beamogen in 2016, where
we developed a method toengineer these immune cells in a
brand new novel way that wasmuch more cost effective than
the way they typically areengineered.
Dr. Moira Gunn (01:44):
But you're luminary now. Did you just
change your name?
Jeff Liter (01:48):
No, we sold that company in 2019 and decided that
the four of us, the threescientists and a guy, worked
really well together. So wesaid, Well, let's develop a
therapeutic company where wecould use engineered cells to
cure cancer as well asautoimmune disorders. And more
importantly than that, we wantedto solve some very technical
(02:10):
problems in the cell therapyspace. So we set out to make
cell therapies much moreaccessible by creating a new way
to manufacture those particularcell therapies so that they
could be accessible. Right now,may not be known to your users,
but today for cell therapies,that's only available to twenty
(02:32):
percent of the people who reallyneed it.
So there's eighty percent of thepeople who are not getting
treated with cell therapies thatcould benefit from that.
Dr. Moira Gunn (02:41):
Why only twenty percent?
Jeff Liter (02:43):
Yeah, so right now for cell therapy, in order to
get that treatment, you have touse the sick patient's cells.
And that's where the currentstandard of care is. And it's
very expensive to be able totake the cancer patient's cells,
remove them from them, ship themoff to a manufacturing center,
(03:03):
and then ship them back. It'sextremely expensive, and it's
just only available at the majorcancer centers. So we felt that
there was a way to make many outof a healthy donor rather than
the sick patient, where we couldeffectively make that product
available to many, many patientsthat's off the shelf at the
(03:25):
hospital waiting for them.
Dr. Moira Gunn (03:27):
Well, words, words, words. You could say that
all you want. Now let me justask one little question here. I
get a confirmation on what youjust said earlier. When they
take the cells from the sickpatient, their patient's own
cells, and they send them off tothat center, not just to create
more of them, but they engineerthem to come back and fight
(03:47):
their own cancer, right?
Jeff Liter (03:49):
Yes, that's exactly right. They engineer them and to
recognize the cancer.
Dr. Moira Gunn (03:54):
Now let's acknowledge, you know, we've
done very well with thispersonalized or individual
cancer therapy. Some of you maybe familiar with it, it's called
CAR T. But this new approach,this next generation approach,
which Luminary is working on,tell us what you're trying to do
and why it can work.
Jeff Liter (04:15):
Yeah, so the work that we're doing at Luminary is
we're able to take a very smallsubset of immune cells that
effectively can go into anypatient without causing harm.
And within that very smallsubset, there's two kinds.
There's one that's called a Vdelta gamma one and a V delta
gamma two. And the beauty of ourproduct is we put both of those
(04:38):
together, and the V delta 2swill act as a rapid shock and
awe to the system to kind ofclear as many as they can, but
they don't persist and they goaway. Whereas the V delta 1s
will persist longer and clean upanything on Aisle 8 that didn't
get cleaned up before.
So that's a unique approach fromLuminary that we're quite
(04:58):
excited about getting into theclinic.
Dr. Moira Gunn (05:00):
The old one two punch. Is that what you call it?
Jeff Liter (05:03):
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And as
Dr. Moira Gunn (05:05):
I understand it, you're hitting three different
receptors on the cancer cell. Soif one can reject it, another
one can't. Is that the idea?
Jeff Liter (05:15):
That is exactly correct. Most of the companies
that are out there, you only useone antigen, but we've
engineered these in a fashionwhere we can attract three
different receptors, as younoted, and we only need one of
those to be present for theconnection to be made between
the cancer cell and the immunecell where it gets clearanced.
(05:36):
These are engineered in afashion where they have three
receptors on each cell. And tomake clearance happen for those
cancerous or pathogenic cells,we only need one of those three.
So those cells are it's veryhard for them to escape our
particular product.
Dr. Moira Gunn (05:54):
Preliminary has six programs underway, including
head and neck cancer, and and anumber of others. You have three
in phase one in humans. One isfor multiple myeloma, one for
non Hodgkin lymphoma, and onefor lupus. Now tell us about
these trials. How big are they?
(06:16):
Who are you treating? How longwill it take to read out?
Jeff Liter (06:20):
Yeah, so as you noted, these are phase one
trials. And in each one of thosethree trials, we're looking to
treat between fifteen andeighteen patients. For the non
Hodgkin lymphoma, that's the onethat we're the furthest ahead
on. We have treated fourpatients to date and had very
good results. On the multiplemyeloma, we have treated one
patient.
(06:41):
And then on the lupus trial, weexpect to treat our first
patient within the next threeweeks.
Dr. Moira Gunn (06:46):
Is this all the same drug?
Jeff Liter (06:49):
Yes, it is. And the fact that we've engineered these
cells to have these threedifferent receptors give them a
broad application, which is whywe were able to create three
different trials using the samedrugcell therapy.
Dr. Moira Gunn (07:04):
So what is it like being in these trials?
Jeff Liter (07:06):
Yeah, so for the patient, effectively they come
in and they go through a processto get the cells, and then
that's an infusion that happensto them. They typically are
staying around the hospital fortwo or three days just to make
sure that there's no sideeffects. And then effectively,
it's a one dose. So that's allthey need is a single dose. In
(07:28):
many cases, we're hoping for acure just from that single dose.
Dr. Moira Gunn (07:32):
Now, while they're hanging around the
hospital for three days, this isphase one. You don't anticipate
in the future, if this all comesto fruition, that they will have
to spend that kind of time.
Jeff Liter (07:44):
We do not. So the ability to treat side effects is
getting better and better, andthe side effects are very
minimal compared tochemotherapy. And so they will
be able to be treated as anoutpatient in the future.
Dr. Moira Gunn (07:58):
You keep talking about accessibility. You're in
Minnesota. The cells aremanufactured somewhere probably
in Minnesota. How are you makingthem accessible? Why can they be
so much more accessible?
Jeff Liter (08:13):
So once they've been engineered, they're frozen to a
very, very low temperaturecalled cryopreservation, and
they're able to be shippedanywhere across the world. They
can be sitting in any hospitalfor an off the shelf drug that a
patient could get the same daythey walked into the hospital.
Dr. Moira Gunn (08:31):
So this is going to be delivered anywhere, can be
delivered anywhere, ultimately.And that's the whole goal, so
that if you have one of thesecancers and you're eligible for
the cell therapy will work foryou, that you can get them
because they'll actually they'llgo into any human being.
Jeff Liter (08:51):
That is exactly right. And we're looking to make
sure that this product becomesavailable to the entire world
who needs these drugsdesperately.
Dr. Moira Gunn (09:00):
Let's be clear. The three programs you have in
phase one, two of them arecancers, and one of them is an
autoimmune disorder, lupus. Howdoes this work in the case of
lupus?
Jeff Liter (09:14):
So the B cells that are in a patient effectively can
either become cancerous or theycan become auto inflammatory. I
know those are technical terms,but the same product wipes out
those B cells either way,whether they're cancer or
they're auto inflammatory.
Dr. Moira Gunn (09:31):
So we're not just talking about treating
cancer, we're talking about anynumber of chronic diseases here.
Jeff Liter (09:39):
Yes, we are. And that's the true excitement of
these cell therapies, that theyhave applications that go well
beyond oncology and are movinginto the autoimmune disorders
with very, very good results.
Dr. Moira Gunn (09:51):
How well is the CAR T therapy working itself?
Jeff Liter (09:55):
So CAR T therapies for blood cancers get about a
fifty percent cure rate with onesingle dose. So far, the data is
still early, but in theseautoimmune disorders, there have
been eighty percent cure rates.So quite exciting times for cell
therapy to transform the waymedicine is practiced.
Dr. Moira Gunn (10:16):
This is what I call the technology side. You
know, better, faster, cheaper.Hey, this works. Can we get it
to you better? Can we get it toyou faster?
Can we get it to you cheaper?
Jeff Liter (10:26):
Exactly right. And that's what we've been focused
on as a company since we startedLuminary Therapeutics.
Dr. Moira Gunn (10:32):
Well, thank you so much, Jeff. Please come back
and see us again. Keep usupdated, if you will.
Jeff Liter (10:37):
We would love to.
Dr. Moira Gunn (10:38):
I've been speaking with Jeff Liter, the
President and CEO of LuminaryTherapeutics in Minneapolis,
Minnesota. More information isavailable on the web at
luminarytx.com.
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