126: Vanilla Cream & Led Zeppelin: A Hospital Birth with Midwives

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lisa (00:00):
You're listening to the Birth Matters Podcast, episode
126.
Then

Lindsay (00:03):
they bring him back over.
I remember he smelled so good,but I thought he would smell
awful because nothing has evercome out of my body before
smelling great.
But he smelled, I swear to God,like when you're making a cake
and you use the electric mixerand like the way the air smells
that comes up from that process.

(00:25):
I feel like that's what hesmelled like.

Music (00:28):
Yeah.

Lisa (00:36):
Hey there, and welcome to the Birth Matters Show.
I'm your host, LisaGreaves-Taylor, founder of Birth
Matters NYC and director ofEast River Doula Collective.
I'm a childbirth educator,birth doula, and lactation
counselor, and I've beenpassionately supporting growing
families since 2009.
We'll see you next time.

(00:59):
In today's story, Lindsay, asocial worker from Brooklyn,

(01:19):
shares her fresh and detailedjourney to motherhood.
Due to her experience workingin hospitals, Lindsay chose to
work with midwives for a morepersonalized birthing
experience.
Her story includes gleaninglots of tips from friends who
gave birth shortly before her,some fairly extreme work stress
leading up to labor, theconfusion of a stop-start labor,

(01:41):
how she had to wait a long timeto get the epidural and then it
slowed progress, how multiplevisitors prevented her from
resting, as well as the magicalmoment of welcoming her baby to
the sounds of Led Zeppelin.
We'll discover the strugglesand triumphs of early
breastfeeding, the relentlesscycles of pumping, and the
delightful detail of her babysmelling like a freshly baked

(02:05):
cake at birth.
Just a quick heads up that thisepisode does have some strong
language, just in case there areany sensitive ears around.
Before we jump in, a quick wordfrom our sponsor.
Today's episode is brought toyou by the Birth Matters
Complete Online Course.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.

(02:46):
newborn feeding, which includesbody feeding, pumping, and
bottle feeding basics, andnewborn care.
And to top it off, you getlifetime access so that you can
use it as a refresher later inthis or future pregnancies.
How awesome is that?

(03:07):
You also have an option to addto the course a private
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Check it out atbirthmattersonline.com.
Also, did you know that you cantake our live group class
virtually?
If you have a preference forlive and interactive over

(03:30):
recorded and or don't live inthe New York City area, this is
a great option and is priced abit lower than the in-person
group course.
Check that out over atbirthmattersnyc.com.
Last thing, East River DoulaCollective's next Meet the
Doulas will be on Wednesday,June 4th at 6.30 p.m.
on Zoom.
And our next virtual SavvyBirth 101 workshop will be on

(03:54):
Monday, June 9th at 7 p.m.
You can find the link to signup on the top banner over at
birthmattersnyc.com.
So if you're expecting a baby,we'd love to see you at either
or both of those events.
All right, now let's jump inand hear

Lindsay (04:11):
from Lindsay.
I'm Lindsay.
I am a social worker.
I work at a public hospital inBrooklyn in the psychiatric
emergency department.
I live in Prospect LeffertsGardens.
I have been a mother for sixand a half weeks.
Now we gave birth in October,end of October of this year.

(04:31):
Yeah.

Lisa (04:33):
Lindsay is a student of mine, former student of mine.
She took birth class with me inperson, right?
I was looking back at the classpicture.
And when was that?
I didn't look at the date.
It was in

Lindsay (04:43):
August.

Lisa (04:44):
Yeah, because we did have our picture outdoors on my deck.
Thank you so much.
And as you were reminding meabout what you do for a living,
I was reminded that in class,you gave some wisdom in the
postpartum wellness mentalhealth topic.
And I have adjusted my slide interms of when to call 911.
I removed that.
I just said call for mentalhealth.
I knew I wanted to work

Lindsay (05:23):
with midwives, but also...
give birth in a hospital.
I'm very much a believer inmodern medicine, but I also, as
a person who's worked inhealthcare for over a decade
now, I also am aware of thelimitations.
And when it comes to working inlike a more classic system,
it's going to be more rare tocome across somebody who maybe

(05:45):
is in it more for passion andless in it for liability.
Let me rephrase that.
I don't mean they're inhealthcare because they care
about liability.
I mean that the facilitiesthemselves stress that more.
So as a healthcare provider,even myself working in a
hospital, and this is one of thereasons that in the class, when

(06:07):
I said to be aware, it's verysimilar, right?
With any sort of area in ahospital that there's certain
things that you need to stickto.
And it's more about hospitalbeing up to par with regulations
and less about maybe the actualneed of the patient there in

(06:28):
that moment.
There's reasons for it, right?
There are good reasons, but asan individual person, you might
be more interested in workingwith somebody who's more
tailored to what your needs areand also maybe more up on actual
research, right?

(06:48):
I think that you have morefreedom when it's a midwife,
something that's morenon-traditional that allows more
room for actually looking atwhat is evidence for certain
things versus what did thelatest regulations suggest,
which might be out of date.
I also have a lot of friendswho worked with midwives and I

(07:09):
had one friend in particular whohad a midwife.
This is not in New York City,so I'm not throwing anybody
under the bus here.
and had planned on doing a homebirth and was in labor at home
for about two days before theyrealized, okay, we need to
actually get you to a medicalfacility.
And then she had preeclampsiaand had they waited longer, she

(07:31):
may not be with us today.
So this was the reason that Iwas like midwife, cool, but also
not just that.
And yeah, I am prettysatisfied.
I would definitely work withthem again if we're still living
in this area, if we haveanother kid.
If we're so lucky to do that.
I did originally work with ULA,which is like kind of a newer

(07:54):
midwife group.
Found them on Instagram, verymuch like a fancy environment.
They have a beautiful bathroomwith all the amenities.
And I was really happy workingwith them.
However, I live in Brooklyn andthey are affiliated with Mount
Sinai West, which is a greathospital.
Loved my appointments there.
The ultrasound was reallyamazing.

(08:15):
Very clear.
But I had a friend at work whowas like, why are you doing
this?
You should work with Park SlopeMidwives.
They're wonderful.
And I was like, you don'tunderstand.
I'm getting state-of-the-artcare with ULA.
They're awesome.
And he was just like, thinkabout how close Methodist
Hospital is to where you live.

(08:35):
And I really started thinkingabout it and thinking about it.
And I was like, okay, let meswitch there because if I go
into labor and it's like rushhour, we could get stuck in
traffic.
I've been stuck in traffic onthe West Side Highway and it's
not fun.
And now being at the other sidewhere I just did a 20 minute

(08:58):
drive, it had been in my birthplan.
My very loose birth planbecause I never really
officially finished it to walkto the hospital.
I was going to do this, butthen the circumstances did not
quite allow for it.
And I was very glad that thedrive was fast because I cannot
imagine if I had taken...
really much longer than it did,which was only 20 minutes.

(09:21):
And it could have potentiallybeen a couple of hours if we had
had to go across the bridge.
So I switched to Park Slope andthey were great.
You know, ULA feels like astartup.
It's very, very fancy, but theactual core of the type of care
that you're going to receive atULA versus Park Slope, you have
the same sort of quality in yourprovider.
Very similar model in terms ofthey have a group of midwives,

(09:42):
both providers.
So you, every time you go in,you work with a different
midwife that way.
You get to know an array ofthem with the hope that you will
have met whoever is there foryour labor at least once before
you go there because they're inrotation for that component
based on who's on call.
And I actually had three ofthem there with me for my labor.

(10:05):
Three?
You mean like rotating three?
Yeah.
Not three at once.
Okay.
No, not at once.
Although two at once at theend, but we'll get to that.
But I had actually only met oneof them before, but that is the
one that was there for theactual delivery.
And I saw her again for mysix-week follow-up.
Very special.

(10:25):
Although she was disappointed Idid not bring the baby.
Okay.

Lisa (10:28):
Yeah, we always want to

Lindsay (10:30):
see the baby.
Yeah, fair.
I did show her pictures.
But yeah, so my pregnancy ingeneral, I would say the way
that I've always framed it is Ithink that I had an easy
pregnancy based on what I hearfrom other people.
But with that being said,pregnancy is not easy.
There's parts of it that Iactually really liked and kind

(10:51):
of miss in some ways, which isfunny because I didn't expect
that.
But At the same time, it's alot.
It's a big mindfuck.
I don't know if it's okay forme to curse on this, but it's a
big mindfuck in terms of youjust gain weight really fast.
And even though there's areason, it's one thing to think
about it intellectually andphilosophically.

(11:12):
It's another thing to actuallyexperience it.
Also, the impact that has toyour body.
I remember one of my firstsymptoms was like...
I would get winded reallyeasily.
I actually thought I had COVIDinitially before I knew I was
pregnant because I would be likegoing up the stairs and really
getting winded and feeling veryslowed down, which is, I don't

(11:32):
think that symptom impactseverybody.
But for me, I had it really badfrom the beginning, from the, I
think the hemoglobin levels orwhatever.
I don't know all of thetechnicalities of it, but I read
that somewhere.
And yeah, just feeling likeyour body is not capable of the
same things that it is when it'snot pregnant, which is
frustrating.

(11:52):
I also, I was very lucky to notreally have nausea morning
sickness in the beginning, butthe trade-off was that I gained
weight really quickly because Iwas eating a lot.
And then later on, I had a lotof acid reflux.
So I did end up having a lot oflike vomiting episodes, but

(12:13):
because of that more so thanbecause of early on nausea.
Yeah.
You're peeing all the time.
Fun time.
But yeah, so I do think somepeople really go through a lot
of sickness, and I don't thinkthat I had that comparatively.
I also think that I sleptpretty well compared to what it

(12:37):
can be.
A lot of people told me, oh,you're not going to sleep at all
the last month.
Not true.
I slept so much.
I had hypersomnia.
I was like sleeping...
11 hours at a time, waking uponly to pee frequently because
that's a thing, but able to fallright back to sleep.
That's one of the things I missabout being pregnant because I
can't do that now.
I have to wake up a lot morethan that.

(12:58):
But yeah, there's a lot ofthings that are really tough
about it.
The things that are reallygreat about it is you have this
little thing inside of you andit feels really magical and
people treat you like you'relike this maternal queen, people
are like, oh, even on thestreet, people roll their
windows down to be like,congratulations, you look

(13:19):
wonderful.
Now, of course, the downside ofthat is sometimes too much
commentary from other peoplethat can get in your head.
But I already said enoughnegative things.
So I'll focus more on whereit's nice.
And then you get specialprivilege.
People will be like, oh, you'repregnant.
Why don't you step in front ofme in line?
And so you feel like you'relike the prom queen.
So all of that is nice.

(13:40):
And yeah, It is a reallymagical experience to just feel
something moving around insideof you that you know is going to
be in your life.

Lisa (13:51):
How did you decide to take birth class?
And did you do any nutritionalchanges or any other classes?
No, I just

Lindsay (13:59):
took yours, actually.
I

Lisa (14:00):
don't know, like fitness or prenatal yoga?
Oh,

Lindsay (14:04):
I did do some prenatal yoga with Brooklyn Flow, which
is...
recommend.
If for no other reason, thenit's like a really nice, almost
like support group because yougo around in a circle and you
talk about how you've beenfeeling.
And it's not necessarily, atleast that one, I didn't go to
any others to compare, but thatone, it's not really that

(14:25):
strenuous, which some peoplemight not like because they
might want more of a workout.
But for me, when it comes toyoga, I'm not very great at
yoga.
I'm not very flexible.
So for me, it was like aperfect one.
And it was a lot of likerestorative positions and stuff
that were very comfortable.
So that I kind of went in wavesin the beginning.
I went, cause I did one ofthose packages where you can go

(14:47):
like as many times as you wantfor two weeks.
So I did a bunch for that.
And then I took a break.
And then towards the end, I wasgoing probably once every other
week, So it wasn't like toooften, but it was something.
I did not take any otherclasses.
I did work with a doula.
So we had a couple of prenatalvisits.
And okay, the big thing wasthat, and this is also the

(15:09):
reason, I don't even know if Iwould have taken your class or
come across.
I have to give my friend Erikaand her partner Javier, who took
your class before me, a lot ofcredit.
They're great personalities,but they also...
They're just huge pools ofinformation.
I have to give them so muchcredit because they're both
Gemini's and they're both likevery much.
They do the research they read.

(15:30):
But yeah, back to Erika andJavier.
They just did so much research.
Erika got pregnant and he gotthe ACOG book and he read it
like 700 page ACOG book.
And then not only that, he hadthis thing called an air table,
which I've never even heard of,but it's like a multi level
Excel table.
spreadsheet situation.

(15:51):
You know, he had an analysisfor comparing the cost of
diapers.
We had one comparing the costof birth classes.
So they're like, we'll justshare our air table and you can
do your own research based onthat.
And I'm like, obviously thestats here point to this one
makes the most sense for costand what it covers and all of
that.
So no offense to other birthclasses in New York City, but

(16:13):
Lisa's is the best.
You did the research.

Lisa (16:18):
You're so sweet.

Lindsay (16:18):
So yeah, so many things.
And I just, I really, I wouldlike to give myself more credit,
but I have often wondered,would I have been so prepared
had she not also been pregnantat the same time?
And had we not been on a groupchat?
Because there were so manythings that I was like, oh,
should I be doing that?
I think I would have sought outa doula.

(16:39):
And I think I still would havedone like the midwife care and
all that, because that wasalways my plan.
But the other things likecertain books that she
recommended.
Not that I didn't read toomany, but specifically Emily
Oster's books.
And then yeah, the birth class,actually where I got a doula
from, because that was somethingshe recommended.
All of this stuff was fromknowing to do the what to expect

(17:02):
app, like these little simplethings.
Like, I don't know if I wouldhave come to that on my own.
I was pretty prepared for thesituation and I have to give
credit to them because they Didthe preparing and I piggybacked.
I

Lisa (17:19):
love it.
That just drives home the powerof friendship and community and
how much we need each other inthis journey where it's like all
new.
It can be so overwhelming.

Lindsay (17:28):
She's two months ahead, two months and change from when
her son was born.
It's made a lot easier becauseI'm like, oh, Erika went through
this at this point.
And then I'm just like applyingeverything.
the things that she learned.
And then otherwise, I prettymuch like kind of went with the
flow of things when I waspregnant.

(17:49):
I tried my best to walk as muchas possible.
I ate a lot of food.

Lisa (17:53):
That's great.
Sounds good.
Great.
Well, then feel free to go intoyour birth story and you can
start wherever like with laborstarting or the last few days or
weeks leading up to that,wherever you'd like to start.

Lindsay (18:08):
So The context also was I had planned to work up until
the end of my pregnancy, right?
Until I went into labor, whichI was due October 28th.
And then I actually went intolabor on the 22nd.
So I went out of work a weekearly, but basically I had been

(18:30):
working up until then.
And I had all these plans ofI'm going to finish this and
that at work so that the lastcouple of weeks are just going
to be like chill and calm.
And I'll just be like showingup and not to say that it would
ever be.
I supervise social workers in apsychiatric emergency
department, so it's never goingto be like completely chill, but
in terms of like other extrathings.
But what ended up happening wasthat Woodhull flooded Woodhull.

(18:54):
in the last couple of weeks.
I don't know if you may haveseen this on the news because it
was like that big rainstorm.

Lisa (19:00):
Yeah, I did.
Yeah.
So

Lindsay (19:02):
the whole hospital had to close for a week.
And like some people got towork from home.
I tried.
I was like, hey, I'm superpregnant and I have employee
evaluations to finish.
Can I work from home?
And I got a big no from mydepartment.
Instead, I got deployed luckilyto Kings County, which is
within walking distance.
But I felt very utilizedactually that week.

(19:26):
Like some people had a verychill like week away from
Woodhull, including my staff.
Once I got everything set up,like they didn't have much to do
because they have their ownstaff at Kings County.
But yeah, I went in the dayafter the flooding to the
hospital to help with evacuatingall the patients.
That was like a 12 hour day.
The next day I was like on thephone with my staff, with my

(19:46):
supervisor.
And then all week I was veryengaged in planning kind of just
like managing things.
So I felt kind of the oppositeof winding that.
I was able to get some stuff ofmy own done that week, but I
also just, it was like a veryamped up hyperactive week.
After that, like the hospitaldid reopen a week later, we

(20:10):
returned there and just, therewas like all this buzzing
energy.
I had less time to finish allthe things that I needed to
finish, including that I had tomove my office, which was, is
just like a lot of coordinationand then some physical labor as
well.
So yeah.
And in the meantime, I wasgetting like bigger and bigger

(20:30):
and bigger.
I remember that day that I washelping with the evacuation of
the patients.
I'm like walking up and downthe hallways and the executive
director of our floor was like,that baby is going to fall out
of you.
And I was like, not yet.
It can't come yet.
And yeah, I just, that kepthappening.
And then about a week before Iactually went into labor, it was

(20:50):
a Sunday evening around 9 PM.
I started having these intenselower back pains, lower
abdominal, like kind of likeperiod cramps, phlegm.
And then having like waves ofmore intense pain.
And I'm like, I've never beenthrough this before.
I hadn't even had period crampsin like years, actually.

(21:11):
I'm very, I know probablypeople are listening to this,
like, shut up.
I was like, is this what it'slike?
Is this a period cramp?
I think the reality is that itwas more than a period cramp.
I was having contractions.
I looked it up and I was like,oh, these are labor pains.
Okay.
But I was like, there's no way.
I was like, I still have tomove my office.

(21:32):
I'm like, You can't come.
I'm talking to him.
I'm like, you can't come yet.
I need time.
I need at least a week.
I need at least a week.
And I'm like, is this BraxtonHicks?
But I had remembered thatyou're supposed to be able to
change your position and theykind of subside with Braxton
Hicks.
Still, I guess maybe that'stechnically what it was because
I didn't actually go into labor.
But for two hours, I was likepacing around, going on the

(21:56):
birthing ball, doing differentthings.
stretches and positions that Ilearned both from class and then
also from my doula when she hadcome over for the prenatal
visit.
Nothing was helping.
It was terrible, but I was sophysically exhausted from that,
that by 11 PM, I just was like,I'm just going to try to go to
sleep.
And I like laid down, Gerardcame and gave me a lower back

(22:19):
massage.
And somehow I just fell asleepthrough these pains.
And then I woke up and theywere gone.
And I was like, oh, phew.
Okay.
Went back to work.
And at this point, I think Iwas running on a lot of
adrenaline.
Oh, yeah, Gerard had started anew job.
Also, I forgot this detail.
So like I had been taking thecar to work like throughout

(22:39):
pregnancy, but he needed the carmore than me for this job
because he's a schoolphotographer.
He had to bring a lot ofequipment there and needed the
car to do this and also had togo to Long Island by seven
o'clock in the morning.
Right.
So I'm like, obviously I workthree miles away.
I just have to suck it up andtake the bus.

(23:00):
But here I am at nine monthspregnant, taking the bus for the
first time in a long time.
And usually an older woman willnotice, oh, you're pregnant.
And they'll be like, here's aseat.
But man, it does not alwayshappen.
Sometimes people literallydon't even look up.
And then there's other peoplethat need it too.

(23:21):
Sometimes I'd be looking andI'm like, oh, these people are
older or maybe have othermedical problems.
I don't know.
The reality just being that Idefinitely was like on my feet
in very sardine like buses acouple of times, also worrying a
little bit about, oh, COVID issurging.
So all of this is going on.
My last week, I'm like, he'sdefinitely been dropping.

(23:44):
I've walking a little bit likeit feels like somebody has, for
lack of a better description,punched me in the crotch.
Like I'd been like suckerpunched and also my feet were
hurting all the time.
Yeah.
Wow.
You had some serious curveballs.
Yeah.
But also at that point, peoplewere like, screw work, just stop

(24:05):
coming in right now.
And I'm like, no, the thingsthat I have left are like, I
didn't want somebody else tomove my office.
Like I worked there for a longtime.
I have a lot of stuff in there.
It's like a joke.
People are like, I'm like MaryPoppins in my office.
I have all the things,including, I don't know if
they're going to be like, youhave a hammer and nails control
or anything.
But I'm like, I don't want tobe on leave and come back and

(24:27):
it's not set up and things likethat.
I really was like, I want to dothat.
It's not like I'm like thevictim of circumstance
completely.
Some of it was like mypreference, but also just not
ideal.
Yeah.
And again, the timing that Ihad planned got screwed up
because of this, the floodingand everything.
Oh, yeah.
So that was like my last week.

(24:48):
They had a very nice babyshower for me at work.
It was supposed to be that weekthat we were deployed, but
obviously it didn't happen thatweek for that reason.
So it got delayed.
And so that was lovely.
It was really funny.
It was like all of the thingsthat I did not do for my own
baby shower was like very muchlike more emphasis on.
I wanted people to like kind ofparty and have fun.

(25:10):
We have a dance floor.
Our decorations were like alittle more nontraditional.
And at work, it was like all ofthe blue balloons and blocks
that are like baby and like babybottles and all of this stuff.
So it was like just funny.
Very different.

speaker 4 (25:26):
Yeah.

Lindsay (25:26):
Very different, but it was really cute.
And you could tell that theyput a lot of effort in.
I know there was like a fewdifferent people that were in on
it.
This is what you get when youwork somewhere for 10 years, you
make a lot of friends.
So I feel very grateful forthat.
And yeah.

Lisa (25:39):
Pretty late though for a baby shower, but I guess maybe
with all the flooding and stuff.
Yeah,

Lindsay (25:43):
it was two weeks later than it was supposed to be.
And then remember the baby camea week earlier.
So it's good that they had itthat week because the next week
I was out.
So then that Friday I had anultrasound.
At that point, I'd been goingin for weekly ultrasounds
because he was measuring big,which my doula did say, if you
don't want to do that, it isnormal.
Like we're both tall.
Like it is normal that he'smeasuring big and also it could

(26:03):
be inaccurate.
So if you don't want to do theultrasounds, you can turn them
down.
And I was like, no, I like tosee him.
So I was going in for theseweekly ultrasounds and he was
like over the 90th percentile interms of size.
And on that Friday, when theywere reading the results, the
nurse practitioner who read theresults was like, he's measuring

(26:24):
nine pounds.
And I would recommend that youget induced now.
I was like, hell no.
I was like, he is not due foranother week.
I am not even consideringinduction until Halloween, which
is three days after his duedate.
I was like, there's no way.
I was like, this could bewrong, blah, blah, blah.

(26:46):
And she was like, all right, wewant you to come in on Monday
to do a follow-up ultrasound.
And I was like, Monday is notgood for me because it's my long
day and I have work and then Ihave two clients.
So I'll come in Tuesday.
And she was like, okay.
And then I was like, plus I'mgoing to see what my midwives
have to say about it anyway.
So then I right afterwards hadan appointment with the
midwives.
We went there.
And the one thing that wassticking out from what the nurse

(27:09):
practitioner was saying wasthat she was like, if he gets
too big, then you might likehave to have a C-section because
of the size, which I know fromyour class and from things that
I've read and other things liketo try to tune these things out.
But once somebody says it andyou're in the circumstance,
you're like, that's hard.
Like, is this like I could diefrom this?
Yeah.

(27:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The anxiety.
Yeah.
So anyway, we went and we had along conversation with the
midwife that I saw that daywhere she was like, you could
just try some natural inductionmethods.
Have a lot of sex this weekend.
I forget what else sherecommended.
I just remember the sex part.
She was like, basically...

(27:53):
Yeah, they could be wrong, butalso they could be right.
And there are realities tolike, if it gets to a certain
point, which we don't reallyknow if it's there, but here's
all the information for you tohave.
We were supposed to go out thatnight to my friend's concert,
which I had like really beenlooking forward to.
And now I'm starting to thinkin my mind, this is my last
chance to be social.

(28:14):
I really wanted to go to thisconcert and go to dinner.
But after this really long sagaof appointments and week after
We were both really tired.
It was raining really hard.
Gerard was like, I am notdriving to the city.
And I was like, you'redepriving me of socialization.
But then I passed out, sleptlike 12 hours.

(28:34):
We had a really chill next day.
And then at about 3.45 a.m.
going into Sunday morning, Iwoke up with the pains again.
And I was like, oh, okay.
This is like last Sunday wherewe had this episode.
So I was like, let me not, Iknow Gerard has to wake up early
to, he has a client.
So I'm like, let me just gointo the other room and work

(28:56):
through this on my own.
So I have the two hours againof birthing ball, going to the
couch to do cat-cow pacing backand forth, groaning, trying to
not groan too loud.
Again, it goes for about twohours and I'm like, okay, last
time it was two hours and then Iwas able to sleep and I'm just
so tired.
So I'm just going to go liedown again and maybe I'll fall

(29:17):
asleep.
Nope.
Instead, I'm just like groaningin bed really loud.
At this point, he wakes up andhe's like, hospital?
And I was like...
No, we're going to call themidwives.
So we call the midwives andthey page the midwife on call.
Shannon, who I had not at thatpoint met before, she calls and

(29:39):
he basically is talking to herwhile I'm in the background.
And then she, based on mygroans, is like, okay, it sounds
like you're having like prettyintense contractions, but
they're only like 30 secondslong, but they're happening kind
of fast.
She was like, it's a Sunday.
You could come in, but you'dhave to come to the hospital and

(29:59):
we could see where you're at.
Or you could try to labor athome for a little while and you
can call back.
And so I'm determined.
I'm like, no, there's thingsthat I can do, right?
I was like, can I take a bath?
And she was like, yeah, take abath.
So I was like, okay.
So I get into the bath.
We make a plan because we hadon the to-do list for that day,
finish the hospital bag.

(30:19):
So I was like, can you finishthe hospital bag?
Also, can you get some food forme?
And then...
Also, let's call it the doula.
So I like get into the bath.
We call the doula.
He goes and gets food.
One thing I noticed right awayis that so what was happening
was that same thing where likein between these contractions, I
like couldn't really fullyrelax because I had really bad

(30:43):
cramps and lower back pain.
So one thing that the bathhelped a lot with was that sort
of in between contraction pain.
Like that subsided a bit.
And actually for a while, likeit helped.
Like I was in the bath forprobably an hour and a half.
We called the doula.
She was like, it sounds likeyou're in very early labor.
You might give birth in twodays.

(31:04):
Just try to do these differentthings at home.
Try to have him do massage.
She was recommending a lot todo a guided meditation, which I
will admit right away that Iwas...
Very, in general, I'm kind ofresistant to them, like an ADHD
personality.
So things like that, I'm like,oh, I don't want to, that's not

(31:26):
how I relax.
But also I think the way thatthings were happening for me, it
really didn't seem relaxing todo something like that because
again, the pain was pretty high.
So I needed more physicaldistractions at that point.
I ended up taking a bath forabout 90 minutes.
At first I did a hot bath tohelp with the pain, but then I

(31:47):
started like getting overheated.
So then I switched to coldwater.
And then after a while I waslike, I am done being in the
bath.
I live in a New York cityapartment.
I am five foot, almost 11.
Baths are great, but they'realso like a luxury.
Actually, my doula had beenlike, Why don't you consider

(32:07):
getting an Airbnb for whenyou're in labor?
I think as maybe like notingthat maybe like my apartment is
we share the apartment withGerard's cousin and her kid.
And so it's not always themost, although he wasn't there
when this happened because he'soften not here on weekends.
So that actually worked out.
But I just like, how would thateven work logistically?
Like I go into labor and then Ijust like log into Airbnb and

(32:30):
see if anything's available.
Oh yeah, because

Lisa (32:31):
you can't

Lindsay (32:32):
really schedule it in advance.
How am I going to know when ithappens?
So I don't know if you fullythought through that suggestion.
But in any case, I dounderstand in terms of probably
you can find a better bathtubsomewhere.
Ours is not the best.
So eventually I was just likedone with it.
And at that point, Gerard wasback with the food or had been
back with the food for a while.
And I like tried to eat.

(32:53):
No dice.
I was like, I can't evenbecause as soon as I got out of
the bath, like all of theintensity returned.
So I couldn't relax enough tochew and swallow.
I am like at this point, I'm sotired.
So I'm like, I'm going to tryto lie down.
Nope.
So much pain and trying to liedown, try any sort of way.
The only thing I could do wasbe like literally on all fours

(33:16):
or be on my knees and proppingmyself against the bed.
Gerard is frantic at thispoint, trying to pack the bag,
get stuff ready, take all theequipment out of the car from
that job.
That was part of it too,because all the equipment's in
there.
So he has something that ends.
I actually don't even think hewas able to clear.
I think the plan had to berevised.

(33:38):
He'll just have to come backand do that so that we can deal
with that later.
And then he's also trying tomassage me.
I'm calling my doula.
She's like, suggesting I take anap.
And I was like, I don't think,I don't know, man.
I was like, it's all I want.
It's all I want is to take anap, but I don't think I can.
So I, I, that point, I just waslike, I'm calling it.

(33:59):
We're going to the hospital.
So we call the midwife back andshe's like, okay, I'll meet you
there.
We get into the car.
It was awful.
Remember, I had said earlierthat my birth plan was to walk
to the hospital.
Now, when I had that plan in mymind, it was going to be like
contractions every five minutesin growing intensity.

(34:21):
And that just was not I wouldnot have been able to.
I live in Prospect LeffertsGardens.
Methodist hospital is on theother side of the park.
It is not far.
It is less than two miles.
This is why I thought thatwould be a realistic thing.
I also was like, who wants tobe in a car?
And of course there werecaveats to this plan.
Like if it was going to be inthe middle of the night, that

(34:42):
wasn't going to work.
This was not the middle of thenight.
This was like, by the time welike made the call, like we are
going to the hospital, it was 945 AM.
So I was like, I've been inthis for over five hours now.
And it is, exhausting me it isstarting to feel like
debilitating and in the carthat's the first time that I

(35:03):
decided to take out the app thatmeasures how quick your
contractions are coming beforethat Gerard was like oh I've
been measuring them and I'm likehow do you know when they're
happening he goes just everytime you go ah I just hit start
he had he's a personal trainerso he has like all these little
things like that to measure repsor whatever that people are

(35:24):
doing So I don't know what.

Lisa (35:26):
So he wasn't even using a contraction app timer.
And

Lindsay (35:31):
he's like, so it's been about 30 seconds each time.
That was when I was in thebath.
And I was like, oh, yeah,that's pretty accurate from, I
guess, from when I'm yellingout.
That is happening.
So then I start doing that inthe car.
And at this point, I'm like,OK, it's like 80 to 90 seconds.
And they're coming like everytwo minutes.

(35:51):
It's rapid.
He finds parking.
Luckily, it's like half a blockaway from the hospital.
And then I must have.
It's so funny because it's likeit's daytime now.
We're not alone on thesestreets.
And I'm walking like three feetand then going against a
building like people aredefinitely walking by.
Oh, she's very pregnant.

(36:12):
Oh, we know what's happening.
I just felt like I'm like, thisis so public.
What's going on with me?
We get to the stoplight.
Cause we have to cross thestreet to get to the hospital
and Gerard spots these bluepants.
And he's like, okay, thisperson in scrubs, he purchased
them.
And he's like, do you work forthe hospital?
Cause we realized we never dida hospital tour.

(36:33):
So we don't know where to go.
And this man takes one look atme and he's like, He just
becomes my patient navigator.
He's directing traffic out ofthe way, brings me in.
He is like, communicates withthe security guard.
They call ahead to labor anddelivery.
They even have, by the time weget to the elevator to get
there, it's been queued for us.

(36:54):
He gets me up there for 20minutes.
I don't know how long it wouldhave taken if this man hadn't
been.
And he had never been to thatpart of the hospital either.
He worked in a totallydifferent part of the hospital.
He just was like, let me riseto the occasion.
So whoever that man was,because I never learned his
name.
Thank you.
So we get into labor anddelivery and like another very

(37:14):
big lucky thing was that it, forsome reason, I think there were
not a lot of people going intolabor that day.
They were like ready for me.
They received me.
They were like, your midwife'son the way.
In the meantime, because I waslike, I need an epidural.
It has been way too long.
I need an epidural.
So they're like, okay, we needto hook you up to an IV then.

(37:35):
That ends up being a struggle.
They try on my right hand.
I don't know if maybe I waslike too frantic for them to get
it in, but like when they putit in my right arm, it didn't
really work.
latch.
This is the word that's comingto my mind.
That's not the right term.
You're in breastfeeding land,aren't you?
The only term that I can thinkof right now is latch.

(37:57):
And then I ended up having thisbig bubble from where they
tried, which remained for thenext several days.
It sounds

Lisa (38:04):
like maybe extravasation where the fluid escapes the
vein, like it didn't go into theproper place.

Lindsay (38:10):
Yeah, that's exactly what it was.
And it was kind of painful.
And then they got it on theother arm.
And then finally, My midwifegets there, Shannon.
She does the cervical exam andshe's like, oh yeah, you're like
five to six centimeters.
And so I was like, okay.
Cause I definitely had a lot oflike labor imposter syndrome

(38:35):
happening.
Like I was like this whole timeI was like, Am I just being
really traumatic?
Is it just that I haven't hadlike period cramps in years and
I can't, I really can't handlethem?
No, my body was doing a lot ofwork.
So that was validating.
And then they're like, okay, wehave your room set up.
We're going to bring you inthere and then you're going to
get the epidural.
They're like, you are next inline.

(38:56):
There's just only oneanesthesiologist because it's a
Sunday.
You're next in line.
They're with somebody elseright now.
Now that ends up taking...
I had gone to the hospitalaround 10, 15.
That whole saga of trying toget me hooked up to the IV
circle exam took maybe 45minutes.
So by the time I get into theroom, it's probably like 11, 15.
And at this point, it's justincreasing and increasing.

(39:18):
And the pain is building on thepain.
My body is exhausted from beingin pain for so long.
And the contractions are justlike really strong.
So at this point, my midwifeis...
just stepping in.
She rose the hospital bed.
I remember she's doing all thecounterpressures on me.
Gerard is looking overwhelmedin the corner.
A nurse comes in and is like,try to stay as still as possible

(39:43):
because when we do theepidural, you're going to have
to be still.
And I'm like, in my head, areyou crazy?
But it takes 45 minutes.
I can't be still for 45 minutesbecause that's how long.
So yeah, spoiler alert.
That's how long it ends uptaking, right?
They don't come in to give methe epidural until afternoon,
like 12.05 maybe.

Lisa (40:03):
But they're saying you need to be still before they
come

Lindsay (40:06):
in?
Well, they're like practicebeing still so that when they
come in.
No, thank you.
What ends up happening is thatI'm like, the person who was in
front of me, whoever they were,Bless them.
I don't know what happened.
I don't know why it took 45minutes for them to get the
epidural because it took fiveminutes for me to get it once
they were there.
But because it was taking solong with the other person, for

(40:28):
whatever reason that was, in myhead, I was like, it takes this
long to get hooked up to anepidural.
And they're asking me to bestill for that long when I'm
like, literally, I'm like, I'mtrying here, but I can't, I'm
not in control of my body rightnow.
Like I'm like writhing in painwhen they came.
And then I guess, I was yellingloud.

(40:50):
So the anesthesiology team,there was a man there, I
remember, and he was like, we'regoing to give you a little
something on top for the pain.
And I was like, okay, which Ilater learned was fentanyl,
which I'm laughing becauseobviously it's a hospital.

(41:10):
They're not like But had hebeen like, we're going to give
you some fentanyl, I might havebeen like, what are you trying
to kill me?

Lisa (41:16):
They're never going to say the exact

Lindsay (41:18):
opioid that they're using.

Lisa (41:20):
Yeah.

Lindsay (41:21):
And especially that one, considering the crisis
that's happening in our time.
That's like the biggest killeron the street these days.
Yeah.
And I think I might have had areaction had they said it.
And I literally they never saidit.
I think my sister read it onlike the drip website.
from the epidural drip waslike, huh, I think this says
fentanyl.

Lisa (41:41):
Wow.

Lindsay (41:41):
So that's like how I learned that's what that was.
But what I will say is likealmost immediately, like within
minutes, I was like, good.
I was like, the pain was numbedout.
And I think I really, I don'tknow.
Part of me is like, what wouldhave happened if I just kept
going?
Because obviously there arepeople who just do this without

(42:03):
an epidural drip.
There are also people who tryan epidural and it does not
work.
I've had several friends thathas happened to, I don't know.
I really feel like maybe theadrenaline would have kicked in
a different way.
Maybe I would have risen to theoccasion, but the way that I
was feeling before I got theepidural was like, I don't have
any strength.

(42:23):
I'm so tired.
I need a break from this beforeI try anything else.
I had remembered a friend ofmine saying that The epidural
helped her relax enough so thatshe could actually push.
So I was picturing that wouldhappen for me, like, okay, one
or two hours, I'll chill out alittle bit and then I'll be able
to push.
It's not what happened to me.

(42:45):
What happens is I'm on thisepidural, my body calms down,
and then we are there for a longtime.
That's like maybe like 1230p.m.
until like basically overnight.
Like I think it was revisitedin the morning when I actually

(43:05):
finally started pushing.
It was like 7 a.m.
the next day.
So it was a really long period.
But I feel at least maybe at acertain point it went maybe
long.
And some of that I think waspsychological.
So this is like the learninglesson.
But in the beginning, what theepidural enabled was for me to

(43:26):
relax enough, literally to beable to eat.
That's one of the things isthat.
So remember, like I woke up tohaving contractions.
So I hadn't eaten since thenight before.
And, you know, my doula hadalso been like, try to eat
protein, you know, the midwife,try to eat some protein on your
way.
And I was not able to eat.
So finally I was able to eatthat bagel, which did have

(43:47):
protein on it.
It was bacon, egg and cheese,which was great.
The most common thing I ateduring pregnancy and also
probably in life.
Yum.
Just continued cravings from myusual self.
Yeah.
So I was like able to eat andthen able to relax.
Now I had also said beforehand,I don't want anybody coming to
the hospital.
This is why I got a doula.

(44:08):
I have my partner.
That's it.
But of course, Gerard announcesto people, Lindsay is in labor.
And then all of a sudden hismom and my sister are there.
My sister tells the story, andshe's going to be very happy
later on when she listens tothis, that I'm including this,
that her brother-in-law was intown from Zimbabwe, and they had
been spending a lot of fun timetogether that weekend.

(44:29):
So once she got the text fromGerard that Lindsay's in labor,
both...
He and my brother-in-law, herhusband, started jumping up and
down.
What do we do?
What do we do?
What does she need?
What do we bring her?
She's like, should I go?
And they're like, yes, yeah,just go, just go.
It's like a very funny scene topicture them all sort of like
jumping up and down.
Yeah, it

Lisa (44:47):
sounds like a rom-com or a comedy.

Lindsay (44:50):
Yeah, exactly.
And then, yeah, then suddenlythey're like there and I'm like,
man, I said don't come.
But then they're there, ofcourse, and I'm like hopped up.
I'm realizing now on opiates,which like for a lot of my life,
I pictured you take an opiateand you're like nodding off.
That's like the classic idea.
But I learned through being asocial worker and having clients

(45:12):
with substance use problems orjust maybe prescribed sometimes
opiates for like chronic painthat for some people, it has a
different effect.
Like it can make you hyper,actually.
It can make you kind of manic.
And I think that was more...
And probably circumstantially,right?
What's going on?
There's all this excitement.
And then now I have my sisterwho's my closest person in the

(45:34):
world and his mom, who's alsovery chatty or I get very chatty
with her at least.
So they're there and I'm like,just chatting away all of a
sudden.
So that's like for hours is thenext part of the experience.
And they're, you know, mysister's like, man, I'm giving
all your friends updates onwhat's going on with you.
And just, she's just talking.
Yeah.

Lisa (45:53):
So what was the maximum number of people you had during
labor in your labor and deliveryroom, like personal family?

Lindsay (46:00):
So it was supposed to be two, but they clearly bent
the rules.
It

Lisa (46:04):
sounded like it.
Usually it's limited to two.

Lindsay (46:08):
Now, my doula didn't come.
They got there in the afternoonand she didn't arrive until 7
p.m.
So it was just the two of themand then Gerard.
And at a certain point, theylike went and got food like they
weren't like therecontinuously.
And also, I wasn't.
Actively in labor at thatpoint, I was just chilling.
I had gone from active laboralmost to like all this

(46:31):
downtime.
I also do wonder, as much as itwas really pleasant to have
them there, I think part of merealizes that probably upped my
excitement.
It was also a distraction.
If they had not been there, Imight have been able to...
eat and then maybe actuallytake a nap, which is what I was

(46:52):
like supposed to do.
But because of the excitement,I did not.
I literally was up hanging outfor a really long time.
I think I got the least sleepout of anybody at a certain
point, even though I was in thebed and Gerard was in a chair or
like on the, they had a windowsill.
They had a missed opportunityfor having an interesting bed

(47:14):
there.
It's like a nice delivery room,I would say, at Methodist.
And including that they haddifferent lighting options, like
kind of built in, I will say.
I did have string lights, asyou had recommended, actually,
that Erika had given me that shehad used.
So props to Erika again.
But we didn't end up using themuntil I was in the recovery
room, which at that point, wedid use them.

(47:37):
And it was really nice.
But the actual labor room, theyhad different lighting options.
But they had this kind ofwindow seat that was very long.
And if they had just put somecushions on top of it, this
could have been a bed.
But It was not.
It was hard.
But he did stretch out on thatat one point.
But yeah, so I'm like just upwatching cartoons here and

(47:59):
there.
My doula came at certain pointstalking to her because Gerard's
mom and my sister went back toour apartment to sleep for a
while.
So he stayed and then the doulawas there.
But yeah, anyway, I should...
rewind a bit because a fewthings happened during this time
that are all kind of quickthings one being that my water
broke at a certain point maybearound 1 30 p.m which is just

(48:21):
very quickly like an interestingi felt a pop that was of course
like a numbed pop because i wasand then a wet sensation so i
was like oh that's my waterbreaking so that is what it is
and then another thing thathappened with the epidural was
that so like i had dilated thatmuch and then i went on the
epidural and then it slowed downa lot So the midwife had come

(48:45):
back a couple hours, maybearound 4 or 45 p.m.
being like, you should considertaking the Pitocin because it
slowed down a lot.
And my reaction at that pointwas like, I was in touch with my
doula and she was likereminding me, you can delay
this.
And I was remembering that fromclass.
And so I did advocate for thatand they honored that.

(49:07):
We tried Nipstim.
Which was a really interestingexperience too, because people
kept coming in and then we'd belike, we're having this intimate
moment.

Lisa (49:24):
Might be less effective with people coming in and out.

Lindsay (49:27):
Yeah.
Eventually it did work becauseenough people learned that was
what was going on.
But it was like this wave ofpeople learning, like including
that at one point, his mom justcame in and we're like.

Music (49:38):
Yeah.

Lindsay (49:38):
And then she was like, oh, OK, go to the waiting area.
And also, there's a certaindegree to which you can't fully
control what happens in ahospital because they'll come in
like, oh, I just need to check.
And that just happens.
So it took a little while, buteventually it did work.
And then I will say that onething that I didn't fully
realize before actually goinginto labor is how literal it's

(50:01):
supposed to maybe be like asexual thing.
because I thought it was just atrigger on your body and it
will help like that's for somereason how I heard it but I
remember on the way to thehospital like my doula texted me
like massages orgasms and I waslike huh and then there when
we're there somebody I forgetwho explains or maybe it was her

(50:24):
when she came you knoweventually it might have been
that like Literally, yeah,because when you have an orgasm,
it is your uterus contracting.
So then that will help italong.
I was thinking I had heard,including from our conversation
with the midwife that Friday,that this is helpful because of
semen.
There's something in that thathelps induce a birth.
I didn't know that also if Iwere to have an orgasm, that

(50:47):
could be part of it too.
And then I think a nurse thatwe had, oh, our first nurse was
really lovely.
It was her, I think, that somepeople...
find that out and then they goand I guess at the pharmacy near
Methodist they have vibratorsand people go and get them I
opted out of this because I hada catheter and I was like I

(51:10):
cannot imagine I just maybe it'spossible but in my head I'm
like there's something downthere and what if I sure

Lisa (51:17):
yeah

Lindsay (51:18):
yeah I like so I was like let's just try to do it
this way with the nipples whichworked well enough I don't know
if I would say I didn't go likeright into labor I don't really
know but whatever the case itwas like a lovely little moment
of intimacy I guess our lastintimate moment together before
baby.
So I'm grateful for that atleast.
But I do think maybe I wouldhave put a vibrator in the

(51:41):
hospital bag had I known.
So that's just like aninteresting thing to add.
Yeah, I need to check mypacking list and see if that's
on there.
It may not be it and it shouldbe.
I don't remember, honestly.
Because I also, there was yourpacking list and there was
Erika's and I don't know if Iremember telling this in your
class, but hers had like over 70items on it.
So Yeah, those were all thingsthat were happening during the

(52:04):
downtime.
And then one of those thingswas that they had just regular
cable TV.
So I don't know.
I didn't grow up with cable.
So I'm the type of person thatI'll settle on something and
I'll be like, this is goodenough.
We can keep watching it.
And what happened was thathappened to be cartoons.
So it was playing Bob'sBurgers.
It was playing...
South Park.
And then I got really into it.

(52:26):
I was like, no, this makessense because often at home I'll
watch cartoons and it helps mesleep.
So this is supposed to help merelax.
And it kind of did help merelax, but this becomes relevant
later why I'm emphasizing that.
But yeah, at some point in themiddle of the night, I realized
that my epidural, it startsbeeping.

(52:47):
Somebody goes and looks at itand is like, oh, it's like
almost gone.
And so I start to be like, oh,no, like I cannot return to that
place.
So I start like buzzing in likemy epidural is gone.
And they're like, OK, they comein like a nurse comes in and
they're like, OK, so we knowthat it's down and don't worry

(53:09):
too much because it stays inyour system for like two hours
and maybe you won't need it asmuch.
And I'm like freaking out.
I don't trust this.
Part of the reason is because Ihad requested and Again, I work
at a hospital, so I understandwhy things like this happen.
But I had requested an antacidin the afternoon on the first

(53:32):
day, and it did not come for 12hours.
So I was like, that was for alittle bit of acid reflux,
whatever.
This is, I think I really needthis.
Like, I think in my head, I'mlike, I...
cannot go on without thisassistance of this drug that I'm
now dependent on this epidural.
And they're like, it's going tobe in your system for two

(53:56):
hours.
And I'm like, you guys aregoing to take longer than that.
And I know it.
I just know it.
I was like, I don't trust it.
And they're like, they're like,whatever, don't worry.
We want to talk to you aboutPitocin again.
And I was like, I will not dothat until, and this was like a
back and forth for a while now.
They're like, we called in theanesthesiologist and I'm like, I
don't believe you.

(54:16):
I was like, I don't believesomebody came in.
Like I'm here with a Pitocin.
I was like, I do not consent.
So eventually I win.
And I was at that point, I wasright.
Now, later on, I'll get tothis.
I think I was wrong.
But at this point I was rightbecause I was like, you're
saying it's in my system for twohours, but it's already been an

(54:38):
hour and a half and I'm alreadyfeeling it again.
And if you're going to begiving me the Pitocin with the
idea of that's going to increasecontractions and increase
dilate.
And at that point, oh, I thinkthey had done another exam at
that point.
And I was, I had dilated a lotmore at some point, even though
it's going to ask you that.
Yeah.
I always forget this.

(54:59):
It took a long time, buteventually I got up to nine
centimeters.
So they're like, but mycontractions were lazy.
So the idea of at that pointusing the Pitocin was like, we
want you to have that extracentimeter.
And then also we want thecontractions to increase so that
you can push this kid out.
So I was starting to feel thecontractions though, slash maybe

(55:24):
I just had lower back pain thatnow wasn't being dulled from
everything else.
So they did end up bringing theepidural back.
And it was a process that tooka little while.
And then eventually, themidwife...
So I had three midwives overthe course of it.
First was Shannon, who was veryinvolved.
Then I had Danielle, who...
That was the overnight one.
She was very nice, but not muchhappened.

(55:45):
And then Shara came in, who Ihad met a couple times before.
And she was like, we are nowgoing to push.
And she was like, I amencouraging you.
One of the first things shesaid, she was like...
We want you to lower theepidural because I want you to
know what you're doing and whereto push.
And this is where I think itwas very psychological for me.

(56:08):
I was like, I can't, no, like Ineed to be relaxed to push.
I keep thinking about my friendwho was like, the epidural
helped me relax, which again,her labor story is also
different.
I had been on the epidural fora long time.
She did not have that sameexperience and she's like okay
true but also so we're likegoing back and forth and she

(56:30):
lets it go okay we're gonna trypushing she's holding a leg
gerard's holding a leg i'mpushing i think in my head i'm
like i'm doing great right i'vebeen doing planks all through oh
i did a plank every day everythroughout my pregnancy that's
what i did to prepare that'ssomething i do anyway But I
continued it up until literallythe day before I went into
labor.
And then I took a two weekbreak and now I'm back on it.

(56:52):
But in my head, I was like,yeah, so clearly I have ab
strength.
I have core strength and I'mpushing.
And they're like, ah, yeah,you're kind of, you're doing it.
They're like, push from yourbutt.
And I'm like, right, I'm doingit.
So yeah, the moral of the storyis that I did not quite know.
And the reason that they werelike, lower the epidural so that
you can feel where it is sothat you know your body like,

(57:15):
kind of can understand where itneeds to focus the energy.
And I have no clue.
I did two hours where I couldreally feel it again, or maybe
like almost two hours.
And another thing that happenedfor me was they were like, most
times people push one to threehours.
So I was also really fixated onthat.
And I was like, it's only beenan hour and 45 minutes.

(57:37):
What's the problem?
Don't I have up to three hoursof this like wide range of
normal?
Like, why are people?
I think in my head, I was like,Feeling like I still need to
advocate.
Are they just trying to movethings along?
But the reality was in thiscase that no, at this point, it
was like you are overdoing itwith the epidural.
You need something even likehaving the motivation of the

(57:59):
pain or something.
Now, what ends up happening isthat this woman came in at
around the two hour mark.
I don't remember her name.
She was another midwife fromthe practice.
I had never met her before.
Older woman.
She has purple hair or hadpurple hair at the time.
And I call this woman like shesaved my labor because they

(58:24):
brought her in as like arepositioning expert.
He was head down, but he waslike kind of sprawled in an
interesting way, like his head.
head was here his back was overhere his feet were over there
so like he was not straight upand down so she was brought in
originally to reposition him andshe comes in and she also notes

(58:45):
that and a lot of people havebeen like oh interesting you're
watching South Park while yougave birth and I was like yeah
it relaxes me like this likekept happening and I was like
not getting the hint she comesin and she like basically rolls
her eyes and was like This iswhat you're going to give birth
to.
And I was like, fine, MissJudgy Pants.
And so I had not planned forthis at all, even though I know

(59:09):
that's a thing like, oh, makeyour birthing playlist.
I had not done this.
So I was like, what is likesomething that motivates me?
And for me, that is AchillesLast Stand by Led Zeppelin.
So I asked Gerard to put thaton.
And so he does.
I think of that song as like asong I love to work out to or
drive to or like potentially goto war to.
So this is like sort of like megoing to war with my body.

(59:29):
So we put that on and she comesand does her like repositioning
thing.
And at this point, I starthearing grumblings, right?
It's been this long andsomething about the heart rate,
blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, oh, my God.
They're prepping me for aC-section.
No way.
And I felt very strongly atthat point because I was like,

(59:53):
at a certain point in mypregnancy, I was sort of like,
oh man, a planned C-sectiondoesn't sound so bad, right?
But at this point I was like,man, if I just went through all
of that and then I have adifferent, because that's, other
people have that story, right?
Where you are recovering fromessentially a vaginal birth and
then also a C-section.
And I just was like, fuck that.

(01:00:14):
It's a tough route, yeah.
Let me see what I can do.
So I hear that.
And then they even at thatpoint bring in an attending from
the floor, which I later learnis because they literally had
the stretcher outside of my roomlike she was going to take me
for my surgery, that attending.
But instead, she just helpedwith the actual birth.

(01:00:35):
So both midwives are there, mylabor nurse, and then also the
attending from the floor.
Gerard is there.
And then my doula is thererecording.
In the background, what's goingon?
Which I did consent tobeforehand, but it's just like a
funny scene, right?
Many hands on me.
He's telling me later on thatthere were hands up in me doing

(01:00:57):
all sorts of things.
And this same woman, thispurple haired woman with the
judgment was like, okay, say itwith me.
F U C K.
Get mad.
And she was like, startyelling.
And I was like, okay.
And then so I do.
I start being like, get thefuck out.

(01:01:19):
I love you, but get out of me.
Gerard's over there putting onthe different Led Zeppelin
songs.
He puts on, if you're familiarwith the band, When the Levee
Breaks, which is perfect.
When the levee breaks, you'llhave no place to stay.
So this is the message that'son.
He's also like whisperingthings in my ear.
Think about the traffic cop.
There was a traffic cop who hadpulled me over a year before.

(01:01:40):
And I had just gone to courtwith and he like, he had issued
me two bullshit tickets.
And then I ended up beingaccountable for one.
And I have a lot of opinionsabout that, but in any case, it
was, it's the perfect thing tosay to me because I was like,
fuck that guy.
It was a very effective thingto say

Lisa (01:01:58):
to

Lindsay (01:01:59):
get me thinking about screw that guy, because that
gave me like all of this energyto push out my baby.
And then I did start feeling itmore because the epidural,
because I did eventually, Sharakept being like, How about
reducing?
And I was like, how about no?
And then eventually I was like,fine, you can reduce the
epidural by half.
And whether they did it by halfor by full, I have no way of

(01:02:22):
knowing.
All I know is that I did startfeeling sensations again.
And then it did make adifference because I know where
things are in my body.
No, it did.
It made a difference.
They also at one point didsomething very helpful, which
like one of the things that youcan consider for a birthing plan
is do you want a mirror to seeyour baby crowning?
And I was like, no, I'll justsee the baby when he comes out.

(01:02:43):
But they did take a picture andshowed me.
And that was more like I hadthought like this is on the
birth plan for some peoplebecause you're like you can't
wait to see your baby and you'rejust so excited to have that
first moment.
No, the point was like, lookhow far you've come.
Yes.
Keep pushing.

Lisa (01:03:02):
And

Lindsay (01:03:02):
it really did help because I was like, oh, he's
like right there.
Let me like I had kind of felthe hasn't gone that far.
And then you feel like I'mgoing to give up because I
don't.
What's the point?
But the point was like you havethis full head of hair, baby,
which is why you had acidreflux.
So that also helped motivate.
I know people are different,but yeah, I don't.

(01:03:25):
know how he would have come outif we did not have that many
people there helping to get himout because that was six people
in the room all assisting in theprocess when he came out he was
blue which in my head i waslike oh is this what babies look

(01:03:49):
like initially No, it's not.

Lisa (01:03:52):
To some degree, yeah, they can be, but depends on how.
In his case, it's because his

Lindsay (01:03:57):
oxygen was really low.

Lisa (01:03:59):
Heart

Lindsay (01:03:59):
rate was low.
So I didn't know this untillater because it all kind of is
like a whirlwind, right?

Lisa (01:04:04):
Sure.

Lindsay (01:04:05):
I remember he comes out.
They lift him up over me.
It's very much like Simba overPride Rock, which is an
extremely sweet moment thatactually I would love to relive
just that moment of him comingup for the first time and then
they handed him to me and then iremember almost immediately

(01:04:26):
they handed the cord to gerardto clamp and i was like wait a
second that's not supposed tohappen which really not only was
it for me i wanted it delayedbut also it's not the practice
of the midwife group or thehospital to do that they do
delayed cord clamping But thereason that it had to be done
was because they needed to givehim oxygen.
So they gave me 20 seconds ofskin to skin and then they took

(01:04:49):
him away again.
That was all like a whirlwind.
I was like, oh, they'recleaning him up or something.
I'm like really loopy at thispoint just from all of the
intensity.
But then they bring him backover.
I remember he smelled so good.
I thought he would smell awfulbecause nothing has ever come
out of my body before smellingbad.

(01:05:10):
great but he smelled I swear togod like when you're making a
cake and you use the electricmixer and like the way the air
smells that comes up from thatprocess I feel like that's what
he smelled like oh that's soyummy just like this like really
sweet vanilla cream I was likeblown away I was like this is

(01:05:34):
like literally the best smellI've ever smelled I'm really
into it Oh, and also when he didcome out, we think that the
song, if anybody listening is aLed Zeppelin fan, we think it
was Over the Hills and Far Away,which I actually think is like
a really special, like babycoming out.
I'm about to embark on thisjourney of life song.

(01:05:55):
So really special.
I'll be sure to link to it

Lisa (01:05:58):
in the show

Lindsay (01:05:59):
notes.
Yeah.
And Led Zeppelin is a lot ofsongs where they have one thing
is going on in the beginningmelodically or like tempo wise.
And then it'll have atransition, kind of like a beat
dropping and a hip hop song.
Led Zeppelin does that a lot.
And this song has one of thosewhere it's like, at first it's
just like acoustic and then it'slike the drums kick in and then
it's like triumphant.
So I feel perfect.

(01:06:21):
Yeah.
Then I was, then I got to holdhim.
We were doing skin to skin.
My doula then at that pointhelped me through like the first
breastfeeding, which like issuch a, hazy memory to me.
All I remember is that itdefinitely, he did latch and it
worked, which then has notalways been the easiest after
that.
I will say I had heard, and myexperience was that Methodist

(01:06:44):
has really great lactationsupport, but one negative thing
that happened was that like, soafter we hung out for a while, I
did my first trip to the Icouldn't pee.
I was like too much, like Ican't do anything.
And they were like, okay, we'lltry again upstairs.

(01:07:06):
But I.
Yeah.

Lisa (01:07:10):
It's terrifying when you've just pushed a baby out
down there.

Lindsay (01:07:13):
Yeah.
I didn't even think about, oh,I guess maybe at some point I
had been told that's a thingthat happens, but I was like,
what do you mean I have to gopee?
I was like really horrified bythe idea.
And then there's like all thisblood.
It got all over my pretty gownthat I had been wearing.
Then they brought me upstairs.
I was very lucky.
This is another thing.
So there were not a lot ofpeople that gave birth that

(01:07:36):
couple of days.
So I would have been a sharedroom.
I was very lucky that in myrecovery room, I never had to
share it.
I cannot imagine.
I'm sure it is the experienceof many people that you do have
to share it, but oh my God.
Yeah.
Because you're like, I was, oh,the amount of times I was just
like, so decrepitly walking tothe bathroom and you're not in

(01:07:59):
control of all of your bodilyfunctions so you're just like
having gas and what's one thingif there's another person in the
room who also just gave birthbut they're collaterals and then
also having I feel like wereally spread out in the room my
stuff was everywhere

Lisa (01:08:17):
as you do

Lindsay (01:08:18):
Gerard stayed that first night and because there
was an extra bed even thoughyou're really not supposed to he
definitely he didn't sleep alot he was I have a lot of
memories of him being like hewas like dealing with the basics
baby all night and he was likekept being like I don't know
what you want oh what do well ohbut good thing you're so cute
like I just could hear him likeas I was like half asleep like

(01:08:40):
going through his like firstnight of fatherhood it was very
endearing but yeah geez if wehad to share the room and also
just to like what if you have amoment where you're able to
relax but the other person islike going through that it's
just oh I'm sure that a lot ofpeople do I'm sure it's

Lisa (01:08:57):
New York City hospitals are shared unless you pay the
big bucks.
And like, that's nice.
I very

Lindsay (01:09:02):
luckily did not pay the big bucks.
And I was there for two extranights right after birth.
So I really was lucky.
But yeah, so like my one sortof negative experience at the
hospital was that the firstnurse, she was very young, that
I had in my recovery room wasreally anxious.

(01:09:23):
And she was trying to push thebaby to breastfeed like
immediately.
And I guess something was goingon with the glucose levels.
Like I never really fullyunderstood what, but they were
having to monitor that with himfor the first day.
And they were pricking hislittle foot a lot.
Although he tolerated reallywell.
I was sort of like, what is hegoing through?
What are you putting himthrough?

(01:09:45):
But he was like, oh, okay.
He like didn't cry at all.

Lisa (01:09:49):
He was on the larger side, right?
In the nine pound range.

Lindsay (01:09:51):
Yes.
Okay.

Lisa (01:09:52):
Yeah.
So often the glucose levels arecan be low when they're bigger.
Maybe that was part of it.

Lindsay (01:09:58):
I think actually now that you're saying that, I think
that sounds right.
I think that's what it was.
So they were doing that, butshe was saying things to me like
he needs to latch right now orotherwise I have to give him
formula.
And if you don't let me givehim like, we have to bring him
to the NICU.
This is how she was talking.
She was also like kind oftaking his head and like trying
to force him in the nipple.
And then she also led methrough the bathroom thing

(01:10:18):
again, but did it way too fast.
And there were parts of it thatI didn't A day later, I was
like, oh, I'm supposed to bedoing this.
So I do feel like it delayed myrecovery.
Things like start using the iceright away.
I did not for the first 24hours.
And I was crazy sore.
The first 24 hours is probablythe most important time to be

(01:10:38):
using the ice pads.
And that she was like, just usethis numbing cream.
Don't worry about that.
Nope, that was wrong.
Also, I wasn't using shediscouraged me using the witch
hazel, which subsequent nursewas like, no, you need that to
heal your stitches because I hadstitches.
I left that out, but I did havetears.
I had second degree tears.
Anyway, at a certain point, Iwill give her props that she did

(01:11:01):
realize what was going onbecause I started crying twice
and she apologized and was like,I know you just gave birth and
I'm sorry I was too pushy.
So she was like, she was awareof it.
And I think that she, like Isaid, she's young.
I did end up talking about thatexperience a lot.
And then at some point patientrelations came to talk to me.

(01:11:22):
And at the time I was like, oh,that's so interesting.
They're sending patientrelations to check on my
experience.
And then later on, I was like,they weren't, they don't do, I
work at a hospital.
They sent Uh-huh.
So they totally were like, wentto patient relations right

(01:11:57):
after.
And they were like, check inwith this patient.
Now, when, by the time theycame, I was like, no, because
for the most part, like I said,I wasn't even thinking about
that by the time they came.
Interestingly, because Ithought about it a lot, but this
is how the mind works.
Like for the most part, all ofmy nurses were really great.
The lactation consultants weregreat.
What is really tough, I thinkthat is inevitable about being

(01:12:19):
at a hospital is is like,there's just so much things
going on.
And part of having good care isalso information overload.
So part of the reason that Istayed the second night was
because I had a lot of anxietyabout going home.
Like, how am I going to be ableto manage this?
And I think that when Iactually went home, I felt like

(01:12:39):
a huge amount of relief.
And what I realized is that alot of what was happening was
that I was getting likeinstructions from different
entities at the hospital.
Here's a whole list of thingsthat you need to do for your
recovery.
And then here's a whole list ofthings you need to do if you
want to breastfeed.
And these things were not Oneof the lactation consultants,

(01:13:00):
like I decided the second nightto give him to the nursery
because I was like, I feel likeI need to recover from labor
before I take him home becausehow am I going to be able to
take care of him without sleep?
Now, famous last words, becauseI didn't really, they still
come and interrupt you.
frequently even though the babywas in the nursery so it's not
like i got eight hours ofuninterrupted sleep i but it was

(01:13:22):
it would have been moreinterrupted if he was there for
sure i also like gerard i waslike go home so you can sleep
before we have this experienceof parenthood and she was like
this is really going to set backyour breastfeeding and honestly
maybe it did because since theni haven't it hasn't been
perfect like we are triplefeeding and He does not latch
every day.

(01:13:43):
Sometimes he latches well.
Sometimes he gets reallyfrustrated and cries.
And then I'm like, okay, youdon't have to do this.
Sometimes he's even looking forthe boob, finds it, can't
remember how to latch, cries.
It's hard.

Lisa (01:14:00):
And triple feeding is so much for you.
Yeah.

Lindsay (01:14:03):
Yeah.
But like, honestly, I thinkthat in some ways it is helpful
because then I'm not like, Imean, pumping is a lot, but it's
also like, I do want, I wanthim to have breast milk.
I also really just, this isanother piece that's, I just
think it's really magical.
I just think it's really coolthat your body makes this like

(01:14:24):
substance that can feed thebaby.
And I'm like, cool.
It also like my boobs look funand full right now.
There's just something very,just like magical.
womanly about it.
And I love my, my boobs lookfun, fun.
They do.
I'm like a small chestedperson.
And for the first time, I'mlike, Ooh, I have these boobs.
I don't think I'm kind of intothem for now.

(01:14:44):
Um, And there was one day whenthe milk was coming in where
they were like kind of engorged.
And I was like, wow, this ishorrifying.
It just looked deranged.
Too full.
And they like settled down.
But the thing that's reallyannoying with pumping is I have
to, no matter what, even if wesplit shifts, I have to get up
every three hours to do that.
For now, at least, I thinkthere's a certain point where

(01:15:06):
you get to reduce, but it's notuntil the fourth month or
something.
So it's going to be like thisfor a while.

Lisa (01:15:12):
And was this from the get-go that they were
recommending that you triplefeed or when did you start that?

Lindsay (01:15:17):
Oh, so sorry.
Yeah.
So initially they were like,all of the feedback they were
giving me was to onlybreastfeed.
I did get a lot, even though wedid not follow this plan.
I will say that having theconsultations was really helpful
because I learned what I shouldbe looking for.
I did successfully have afeeding session with him at the

(01:15:37):
hospital with a consultant.
So I really got to have theexperience.
So he did latch right afterbirth.
But remember, I was in such adaze that I don't know how that
worked.
Plus, it said that the hormonesand stuff can make it.
It's a little different, right?
that first feed versus likelater on.
It's not as easy as it is thefirst time, so to speak.

(01:15:58):
But yeah, I had another sessionwhere he like latched fully for
45 minutes.
So I got to experience likewhat that actually feels like,
what are the different things Ican do to help it along.
So that was really helpful.
My other thing was I, so itjust was so hard to tell.
They had me like handexpressing, they had me using a
manual pump.
At one point they were like,you can pump and hand express

(01:16:22):
into a spoon and then feed himthat.
At this point, he only needsthree tablespoons, two or three.
I don't remember which one itwas.
I did this.
It took like a good half hourto get half of a teaspoon or
tablespoon.
I don't even remember.
Either way, if it was ateaspoon, if it was a

(01:16:45):
tablespoon, it took a half hourto get half of that full and
then Somehow there was like ajerky movement from the baby and
half of that spilled.
And I was like, oh my God,there's no way.
Like, how can I sustain thischild?
This isn't sustainable.
I'm supposed to do this, what,12 times a day, like for two

(01:17:06):
hours, hand express until I'veproduced enough cholesterol.
I don't know how, obviouslythere's other women, like there
was a woman that was there thatlike in the lactation class had
the baby latched and was justlike chilling.

Music (01:17:19):
Yeah.

Lindsay (01:17:19):
I was like, this is not happening for me.
So that was like, that was veryhard.
Even though they were verysupportive, it was really rough
because I also, another thing, Idefinitely was getting the baby
blues.
There was a moment when we werein a lactation class because we
went to a couple of them and Iwas having a really rough moment

(01:17:43):
because I'm just tired.
A lot of different things havebeen going on.
I'm in pain.
And Gerard has been verywonderful throughout all of
this.
And then an unexpected thingthat happened was that I got a
little, I think, jealous of likehow much he was able to do.
I've just spent nine monthscreating this baby.

(01:18:04):
And now I feel like I amuseless to this baby.
Like I am supposed to berecovering.
So I'm not the one that gets tochange him yet, even though
they're like, no, you're goingto be feeding him.
So like dad does this.
And so, yeah.
Now I'm like, cool.
We're both doing that now.
But at the time I was sort oflike, okay, but he's not
latching.
I'm not serving this need forhim.

(01:18:26):
So essentially like I amproviding him with nothing.
Like I was like this uselessand like Gerard also.
So I have less experience withbabies than he does before this.
And he kept getting fixated on,he thought I wasn't supporting
his head enough, which I willadmit I was not.
doing the best job of for themost part.

(01:18:47):
But in this particular moment,I was like, when we were in this
class, I was holding him in away that one of the lactation
consultants had showed me.
And I felt confident I have agood position here.
And it was like the only thingthat I had felt confident about
so far.
And he was like, make sure yousupport the head.
You're not doing that.
I was like, no, I am.
And he was like, no, you needto listen.

(01:19:07):
And I was like, you don't thinkI can do anything right.
And I start crying in thisclass.
And like I'm like reallycrying, not wailing, but like
tears.
And I'm like not able to slowthem down.
Also, interestingly enough, Ihad been struggling to like
sweat, which is like kind ofcontinued after.
Although now I'm exercisingagain a little bit.

(01:19:29):
So it's gotten better.
Crying did help me break asweat.
But also I was like in themiddle of this class and there's
other classes.
new moms here and none of themare freaking like crying during
the lactation class.
Of course, he was the only, Ithink there was maybe one other
male partner there.
Everybody else had their mom orthey were by themselves.
So maybe part of it is thatmakes a little bit of a

(01:19:50):
difference.
I don't know.
There's men versus women.
So also what happened inbetween then was that I had
gotten weighed on the hospitalbed and they told me how much
And I don't know if that waslike a weird weighing device

(01:20:11):
that can be off or if maybe Iwas like, that's how much fluid
I had retained from how long Iwas on the epidural and also
fentanyl, which is very likely.
And also, I guess pushing for along time can inflate you a
little bit more too.
But like, essentially I weighedthe exact same amount that I
had before the I went intolabor, like my way in a few days

(01:20:34):
before.
And now I'm not alone in this.
I'm sure many women, but alsocertainly me.
I will admit, I have said manytimes, it's probably good that
my first child is not a girlbecause I worry about passing
this along.
But I had a lot ofpreoccupation with like how much
weight I was gaining.
And a thing that people say toyou throughout your entire

(01:20:55):
pregnancy is don't worry.
You're going to, you're goingto lose it immediately.
Like the baby weighs this much.
And then your fluids come outand like, you lose all of that
literally during delivery.
And I was like, Ooh, how muchdid I lose from the baby coming
out?
He was nine pounds, six ounces.
I'm like, I at least lost that.
And then they give me thenumber and I, and it was, they
gave it to me in kilograms.

(01:21:16):
So I like did the conversion.
I'm like, Ooh.
And then I was like, Oh, myGod.
So I started crying a

Lisa (01:21:23):
lot.
And then

Lindsay (01:21:24):
they came to do my blood pressure right after that.
And then my blood pressure washigh because I think I was like
upset.
And they were like, oh, honey,you need to stop crying.
Otherwise, like we have to keepyou here because your blood
pressure is really high.
So all of this stuff happenedright before that.
We go into this class and thenhe makes this comment and I'm

(01:21:45):
like, oh my God, I'm just thiswhale.
I can't even hold my baby, likeall of this stuff.
And then the consultant comesover afterwards after it's over
and she's like, I probablydidn't help it because I was
giving dad all these props.
I guess I think at a pointwhere I had to leave, they had
to pull me away for something.
And I guess during that, shewas like, look at dad over here

(01:22:07):
and all of the nice things thathe's doing.
And obviously, I am very happythat this is who I procreated
with, this guy that is likeshowing up for the baby and
doing all the things and isdoing a good job.
This is objectively a very goodthing.
But in the moment, I just feltlike this incompetent whale of a

(01:22:29):
person.
So then, of course, she'stalking and she's very calming,
but she was also like...
Let's talk about, are youhaving any thoughts of hurting
yourself?
And of course I'm a therapist.
I'm like, no, I'm just, I justam a person who sometimes has
the physical reaction of, I crya lot and I know myself very

(01:22:50):
well.
And also it just veryinconveniently just happened in
a very public way.
I think that, yeah, that'swhere being at a hospital, you
have all this support, but youalso have Again, like how would
I have reacted as an employee?
And there's this patient that'scrying uncontrollably in the
class.
I also would have, of course,you have to ask those questions.

(01:23:14):
But as the person receiving it,I'm like, no, geez, I'm not
like, I don't need some bigintervention right now.
Like I just, all of thesecontexts are happening.
So this is where eventuallygoing home is really nice
because you get to kind of justlike, be in your own routine and
space, feeling the way that youneed to feel.

(01:23:35):
And my trust for myself startedreturning a little bit because
there was less intervention.
Before I left, that sameconsultant that gave that class
came to me with a revised planthat was more like, okay,
because he's not latching enoughconsistently and you need to
feed your baby.
It was a little bit more of atriple feeding plan that was

(01:23:55):
geared towards building me uptowards fully breastfeeding that
also involved pumping now someof this we had to abandon even
like in the beginning like i waslike i'm supposed to hand
express and then feed himcholesterol and he was like we
need to feed this baby like weare giving him the formula and i
was like no you're interruptingthe journey but also that's not

(01:24:16):
wrong we did need to feed thebaby and i yeah i think that
that's where all of theintervention got confusing but
ultimately you go home And youstart to kind of pull from the
different pieces and you make anarrangement of the advice and
guidance that is going toactually work for you.
And at the end of the day, I'mgrateful that I had all of that

(01:24:39):
so that I could pull from thatand put something together.
But yeah, where we're at nowwith all of that, I also worked
with a lactation consultantvirtually through my insurance
who I had three sessions with sofar.
And then I think next week Ihave another follow-up after
it's been like almost a monthsince last time I saw her.
And Our focus has been more onpumping with the idea of, again,

(01:25:01):
like maybe building up towardsbreastfeeding, but where I'm at
now with it is that I also thinkI am now exhausted by hearing
about how much goes intobreastfeeding.
It's a lot.
I guess technically pumping isbreastfeeding.
So let me give myself creditthat I am doing that.
I am pumping every, I actuallyprobably at some point soon need

(01:25:22):
to do it.
I think I'm overdue, but yeah.
For the most part, like everytwo to three hours, sometimes it
goes a little longer based onwhatever else is going on and
focusing on trying to get mysupply up because right now I
don't produce as much as heeats.
He is pretty big.
I'm sure close to 12 pounds nowbecause he's growing out of...

(01:25:43):
But the last time when we didthe one month follow-up and that
was November 22nd, he was 11pounds, two ounces.
And yeah, since then he hasgrown out of certain clothes.
So he's definitely...
bigger.
I'm excited for him to be thefull 12 pounds because then we
can use the carrier instead of,I like the wraps, but I think
the carrier will be nice.
And yeah, well, he'll qualifyfor that at that point.

(01:26:04):
But yeah, this kid eats like 30ounces a day and I'm producing
under 15.
So one thing that also makes menervous about breastfeeding,
and I know that the more you doit, there's like a symbiotic
relationship and it increases.
But as of what I'm producingright now, it's not enough.
When he is breastfeeding, Ican't tell fully how much he's

(01:26:25):
getting, but I know that if I'mpumping and I'm getting at most,
the most I've ever gotten froma pumping session is two ounces
from each breast, like combined,right?
And one produces more than theother.
One produces like never morethan the most one ounce at a
time.
He eats four ounces each timehe eats.
So it would not be enough.

Lisa (01:26:46):
And I'm sure you know this, but just for listeners,
usually the baby is able to getmore milk out of us than a pump
can.

Lindsay (01:26:54):
Oh, yeah.
My pump is weak and I'm goingto try.
This is interesting.
So I got the Medela.
It was recommended by a friendwho used it maybe five years ago
when she, five, six years ago.
I saw a TikTok from a lactationconsultant recently that said
in the past year or so, it'sbeen remodeled.

(01:27:16):
And that particular consultant,and she said that other
consultants feel this way too,that it's just not a good
redesign.
And that it is a weaker motor.
So I do have that.
Thanks.
Spectra.

Lisa (01:27:29):
Yes.

Lindsay (01:27:29):
Excellent.
They're using and they reallylike, I just haven't done it
yet.
I did feel relieved to hearthat you can get it from Walmart
for 200 and something.
Cause I was like, is, am Igoing to have to pay like $800?
Cause I, I, people are like,try your insurance again.
I'm like, it's hard to get thefirst pump through my insurance.
This is the city's insurancefor you.
I

Lisa (01:27:50):
don't want

Lindsay (01:27:51):
to pay for anything.
So I'm not even going to gothrough the trouble of calling
them and getting pissed offbecause I know that they're only
going to cover it.
But luckily you can get thisfrom Walmart for less.
So I am going to try that andthat might make a big
difference.

Lisa (01:28:03):
It could make a big difference.
And then the flange size canalso make a difference too.

Lindsay (01:28:07):
Oh yeah.
I've already done that.
So I, that's what's helpfulabout the lactate because she
was like, let's just see.
Cause I was like, I'm sureit's, it seems like the right
size.
And then she looked, she hadoriginally been like, but comes
with the standard 24 size.
And she was like, probably try21s.
And then she actually looked atmy nipples and she was like 15.
I was like, Whoa, that's likeway off.

(01:28:29):
So I did.
Yeah.
That has made a difference thatjust happened a while ago.
I forgot about it.
So yeah.
But what I will say is I thinkthat I'm open.
Like if he starts morenaturally going towards nursing.
Like I am open to doing thatmore with him, but I do feel
like I'm not interested inreally pushing it, if that makes

(01:28:51):
sense.
Like at this point, yeah, likeit's hard to watch him be
frustrated.
It's really satisfying to feedhim in a way where he's
satisfied because it's a reallynice, happy moment when he just
looks cute and he's like, oh,I'm not upset anymore because my
needs are being met.
It is also nice to have theability for other people to help
out with that.

(01:29:11):
Also, it's very nice forGerard.
And honestly, my sister lovesfeeding him because it's a
bonding moment for other people.
His cousin, our roommate, shelikes to feed him as well.
So that also gives me a break,which is needed because of how
time consuming pumping can be.
Pumping can feel a little bitlike, okay, you can feed my
child while I go sit in a roomand...

(01:29:32):
pump my boobs so it's like alittle isolating sometimes but
at the same time it's very niceto have the help because there
are definitely days when i'mhere alone like when gerard is
working and i have to pump andfeed him at the same time
because it'll just line up thatway and it's possible but it's
difficult because he will befussy especially like when it
comes time to burp him and hewill kick out the cords and so

(01:29:57):
it's a little bit of a chaos butit is possible But yeah, so now
like when he does latch, it'slike nice bonding and I'm glad
that it happens sometimes.
Overall, I think that it looksdifferent for everybody and I am
leaning into what it looks likefor us.
I will shit talk formula alittle bit.
Formula smells terrible.
Breast milk smells so good.

(01:30:19):
Breast milk smells almost asgood as the baby smelled when he
came out of me.
I've had a little taste of it.
And it tastes amazing.
It's just like this lovelysubstance.
I don't even want to know whatformula tastes like.
It smells like, but it smellslike babies love it.
Like he loves it.
So no judgment to using it, butjust like shit talking the

(01:30:43):
actual substance.
That's my target here.

Lisa (01:30:46):
Thank you for the comedy show.
It's funny, but I mean, Alsonot funny because you don't want
to smell something that doesn'tsmell nice.

Lindsay (01:30:58):
But also like at the same time, like the important
thing is like he eats it.
Babies like the formula.
So there's nothing wrong withusing formula.
Oh, absolutely.
Literally, if formula were aperson, I am shit talking you.
Just you smell bad.
Could you try some hygiene orsomething?
I don't know.
I guess earlier when you saidto talk a little bit about

(01:31:19):
parents like this is the stuff Iguess that's been going on is
like figuring out what works interms of feeding and a lot of
that story starts before yougive birth people ask you all
the time are you going tobreastfeed and I said the whole
time because I know from justother people I was like I'm
going to try I want toexperience that.

(01:31:41):
I know there's a lot ofbenefits, but I also have known
a lot of people that it just didnot work for.
Two of my cousins just neverproduced a lot of milk and
stopped.
So I was like, maybe there'ssomething there.
Like maybe it's like a geneticthing.
Although my mom did breastfeedme.
She is not around to talk to meabout how, because she passed

(01:32:03):
away, unfortunately, but I knowthat she was able to, and that
she struggled with my sisterwho's older.
and was not able to there, butthen was able to with me.
So, you know, who knows, maybelike next time around, like I'll
have enough know-how ingeneral, like maybe that's some
of it too, that so much wasgoing on and it was all new that

(01:32:24):
I'm like learning and trying toincorporate all of the
information.
Maybe the second time around, Ijust know enough to be able to
be like, and also including likein terms of like my recovery
and stuff too, which is, Ihaven't spoken much about yet,
but yeah.
Oh my God.
I can't believe I really waslike, I don't want to have a

(01:32:46):
C-section mostly because therecovery is significant.
Holy shit.
The recovery from vaginal isinsane.
I am still recovering.
Although I will say props topeople who have it worse than me
because they exist because Iwent into my six week
appointment.
She was like, looks reallygood.
And I was like, oh, because Iam not comfortable.

(01:33:07):
But she was like, yeah,everything is your incisions are
healing.
There are people who get tearsworse than I do.
There's people who apparentlyhave worse scarring.
She was saying my scarringlooks really good.
So there is associations withhow much pain then you're going
to experience because if it'snot healing as well, that's
going to be worse.
So I am like totally on theluckier end of things.
And it is not is not easy.

(01:33:29):
Yeah.
My God, the first two weeks, itwas like so much pain.
It was hard to move.
Anytime you sit up, justhorrible.
When you're on all the Motrin,I was using the padsicles, both
ones from Freedom Mom and alsosome ones that were homemade by
Erika that I inherited.

(01:33:50):
Thanks again, Erika.
I actually just, I didn't useall of those and I just gave
them to somebody on the buynothing group in my
neighborhood.
So they were passing along.
So that's also how many shemade that they were able to work
through three people.
And I had split up the amountof them and given half of what

(01:34:10):
she gave me to our friend wholives upstate that also she gave
birth six days before me.
Michelle, sorry, I haven't saidmuch about Michelle for when
she listens to this.
She's also a very importantpart of this journey.
It's just that admittedly,Erika has done the most research
and Javier actually, especiallyhas done the most research.
That's why she gets the mostshout outs, but both of us

(01:34:32):
benefited from that.
And I'm very close with both ofthem.
I lived with both of them forthree years at a time.
So it's actually been a reallymagical experience.

Lisa (01:34:40):
That's really cool that y'all had babies so close
together.

Lindsay (01:34:44):
So yeah, that's pretty much, I'm sure there's other
little funny anecdotes I couldshare, but that's the main
thing.
Vaginal birth is really, yeah,it's no joke.
It's painful.
The recovery is a lot, but sixweeks out, I definitely, the
improvements are there.
I would say in the past coupleof days, actually, I have

(01:35:06):
noticed more relief and Butbefore that, it was like slow
going.
And yeah, now I have a morerealistic idea.
Because again, this probably isjust different for everyone.
And this is just what it is forme.
And some of this is going toresonate with some people that
have given birth and otherpeople have different

(01:35:27):
experiences.
And it's a really humblingprocess.
This is something you asked atthe beginning, what can I say to
new parents?
And what I will say is that Ican tend to be a little OCD.
And I was like, we will have aclean house.
used to sometimes privatelyjudge parents who were like, I
don't have time to clean.
I get it.
We've had some time to clean,but that's because Gerard has

(01:35:49):
work schedule is not like a nineto five.
around maybe a little bit morethan other partners might be.
His mom has also, she's beenaround more than we thought she
would be.
She was living in Floridabefore, but has moved back and
has come a couple of days aweek.
Everybody that comes over lovesto hold him because he's really
cute.
So we have lucked out withsupport and it is amazing how
time consuming it is to do thereally simple things required to

(01:36:13):
take care of a baby.
Because at the end of the day,it is very simple.
Feed them a bottle, change thediaper, pick them up there's not
many things that you're doingactually but it takes a lot of
time and energy and that's whythey make them cute so that you
can be like oh oh what do youneed what do you need yes
totally i've read somewhere thatcats actually modeled their

(01:36:38):
meows after human babies reallythat's like a manipulation so
that humans will take care ofthem And feed them.
Cats are smart and maybe alittle evil.
But interestingly enough, Igrew up with cats.
So when I hear him meowing, I'mlike, oh, the kitty cat needs
something.
It has the opposite.
I'm sure that I would careregardless.

(01:36:59):
But it's like this extra levelof cute for me that he sounds
like a little cat.

Lisa (01:37:03):
I love that.

Lindsay (01:37:10):
He has a lot of love.
And he's very cute.

Lisa (01:37:12):
Thank you so much, Lindsay.
It has been such a pleasure tohear these details.
I really appreciate your takingthe time.

Lindsay (01:37:20):
Hey, thank you.
Good to see you.

Lisa (01:37:22):
You too.
Bye.
All right.
So a few quick things I'llcomment on before we wrap it up
for today.
You heard Lindsay say it tookaround 45 minutes before they
came to administer the epidural.
And this isn't uncommon.
It largely depends on how manyother patients need the
anesthesiologist at the time onerequests it.
And it can take this long ifthey just went into the OR for a

(01:37:45):
C-section as they have to bethere the whole time.
Or sometimes they have anotherepidural or two to administer
and we have to wait in line, soto speak.
Not super ideal, but sometimeshappens.
Epidurals do have a tendency toslow labor down, particularly
the earlier one is administeredin labor, which is why most

(01:38:07):
hospitals pair it with Pitocin,also known as Pit, to counteract
that.
Pitocin is synthetic oxytocin,and so that creates stronger,
longer, closer togethercontractions.
A lot of local hospitalsautomatically pair pit with an
epidural for this reason, butthis wasn't the case for
Lindsay.
As you heard, it was onlysuggested when in reality it did

(01:38:28):
seem that the epidural wasslowing things down.
This is more of what we call anexpectant management approach,
and it makes good sense.
Pitocin is a powerful drug, andwhy use it unless we see that
we actually need it?
I did want to mention that it'svery common for a newborn to
look a little bluish orpurplish, which we call
cyanotic, in the moment whenthey're born.

(01:38:50):
It takes a few minutes of themtransitioning from getting their
oxygen through the umbilicalcord to breathing with their
lungs for the first time beforetheir skin color changes toward
a warmer hue that we associatemore with a healthy human.
We're most likely to see thisbluish hue in its strongest
pigmentation in baby'sextremities, their hands and

(01:39:11):
feet.
Just wanted to clarify thatsince in this particular case of
Lindsay's baby, he did have amedical concern.
Fun fact, did you know researchshows that swearing is a great
pain coping tool?
A related example is thatresearch shows you can lift more
weight when swearing than whennot.
Interesting, huh?

(01:39:31):
In case triple feeding is anunfamiliar concept to you, I'll
link to other episodes talkingabout this in the show notes for
this episode.
This has been discussed inepisodes 98, 99, 104, and 111.
I asked Lindsay if she wantedto share a mantra or
affirmation.
She responded with thefollowing...

(01:39:53):
I used throughout pregnancy andlabor a phrase I return to
often and also repeat to mytherapy clients frequently.
It's only temporary.
And then once she said thenurse passed along to her in
pushing that in somecircumstances could be useful in
that part of labor, get mad.

(01:40:13):
Okay, here's a sneak peek ofwhat's up next time.

Ann (01:40:18):
The birth photographer arrived first.
She lived a little closer thanthe midwives did.
And so she arrived around like10, 20 or so.
And I just remember when shewalked into the room, like her
female presence was just...
So wonderful.
And I just remember I likeembraced her.
I probably cried a little bitand I was just like, I'm so glad
you're here.

(01:40:38):
And she encouraged me and shetold me, you're so beautiful.
You're doing so good.
She gave me such words ofaffirmation and it was just, it
was really wonderful.
Just the female presence, howpowerful it is in the birth
space.
Not that my husband's notwonderful.
He had been doing an amazingjob supporting me, but it just
goes to show there's somethingto be said about being supported

(01:40:58):
by another

Lisa (01:41:00):
If you enjoy this show, we'd be incredibly grateful if
you'd share it with a friend.
You can follow and share ourposts on social media at Birth
Matters NYC or simply tell themto search for Birth Matters
wherever they listen topodcasts.
So today, consider meditatingon this idea that it's only
temporary.
Is there a current circumstanceor might there be a future

(01:41:23):
circumstance in which thisaffirmation could be really
supportive?
Thanks so much for listening tothe Birth Matters Show.
We look forward to seeing younext time.
And until then, be well.

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126: Vanilla Cream & Led Zeppelin: A Hospital Birth with Midwives

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