Bitcoin Ep. 261

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Thank you.

(00:30):
All right. Good morning, everybody.
Didn't give people as long to join us this morning, but that's okay.
Welcome in, welcome in.
We will get people in here as the intro goes on and try to rearrange the stage.

(00:51):
Get everybody up here, have a fun discussion.
But thank you for spending time with us each and every morning, 10 a.m. Eastern.
We do this and welcome to Bitcoin veteran spaces.
I think this is number 261.
Not sure what happened to the title or if the schedule space got lost,
but my name is Bob Van Kirk.

(01:14):
We'll get a title up there shortly.
I'll be your host this morning.
Maybe if I can get through this,
thanks producer Eric for playing that music this morning.
Eric's up here on stage
He is the guy in the hat
And his title says
Run nuts

(01:36):
I'm also joined by BFP
Neil
And I see some of our favorite listeners
If I miss you, don't get mad
But it looks like we have
ITOD, Christian, Turbo
Bitballer, Bitcat
But Layer Z, thank you guys all and ladies.

(01:59):
Coach Coyne, who else?
Bitcoin Ubuntu.
Lots of good people out there.
Thank you for listening.
It is Wednesday, September 10th, 2025.
All day today.
And we're going to take a look at the time chain.
Wow, the blocks keep flying off the shelf.

(02:19):
914,076.
I think we hit 914 sometime last evening.
And big milestones as Bitcoin goes over $114,000, which is still crazy to say,
which means you can still purchase 877 sats for each U.S. dollar.

(02:42):
All right.
If you guys would like to join us on stage, talk about the topics, news of the day,
things that are on your mind, we'd love to have you up.
please hit that microphone button in the bottom left.
If you just want to send me nasty comments about the music Eric plays,
you can use that purple pill in the bottom right and type in anything you want.

(03:07):
Keep it clean.
This is a family show.
All right.
What else?
It's also a Bitcoin-only show, so don't bring your shit coins in here as usual.
Also, Bitcoin Veterans is having our annual summit, second annual summit,
on November 10th and 11th.

(03:29):
Would love to see you guys there, bitcoinveterans.org forward slash summit 2025
to get your tickets.
Also looking for people to get involved who want to help out, maybe volunteer.
And also, if you have something to provide, that would be great too.
Would love to have you guys submit speaker proposals or maybe panel topics.

(03:57):
So, yeah, check that out.
That's going to be November 10th and 11th in beautiful Nashville, Tennessee.
Hopefully all the leaves will not be off the trees by then.
You'll still get to see some colors, but that should be a fun event.
Day one is going to be the conference, and day two will be firing some firearms.
safely and should be a fun time.

(04:20):
If you can't travel with your firearm and ammo,
there will be some provided, probably at a cost.
But if you're in that game, you probably know ammo is not free.
So, but would love to have you guys.
All right.
Well, let's kick it off this morning.
Want to say good morning to our speakers.

(04:41):
Eric, do you have a microphone yet that's working?
Do you want to say good morning to everyone so they know you're a real person?
I put him on the spot, so I'm not going to give him the crickets.
Neil, thanks for coming.
He is not a real person, guys.
Eric is not a real person.

(05:02):
I made him up.
He's my best friend.
We talk all the time about Bitcoin.
We talk about this show, what we're going to say.
He's actually AI generated.
and all right neil good morning how are you i'm doing pretty good i think i'm a real person but
uh and as long as i'm acting like a real person then i guess i am good stuff yeah and we do have

(05:28):
a couple of people requesting come on stage a couple of regulars uh eric if you can help me
out with that again once again having issues with the stage so uh we'll get you guys up here
and wanted to say good morning to BFP while we rearrange the stage.
How are you doing, sir?
Hey, good morning, Bob.
Thanks for having me.

(05:48):
Another great day for a great day.
Yeah, sometimes I wonder, BFP, if you are a real person just because the birds throw people off.
They think, oh, he's outside walking his dog, and there's birds chirping in the background.
But that would just be an AI psyop.

(06:10):
So good morning.
Thank you for joining in.
Birds are not real.
The spies are everywhere.
BitPetro, good morning.
Thanks for joining.
How are you?
Doing well.
Good morning.
How's everybody doing?
Good, great, and wonderful.
As always, AC, thanks for joining the stage.
Good morning, sir.

(06:32):
Morning.
Bitcoin all day, every day.
We got a mic check and it's working. Thanks AC. Texas Toast, our usual host, looks to be connecting.
So we'll try to get him up here.
Hello?
There he is. Hello.
What up dog?
It's your dad calling. Just kidding.

(06:52):
Hey dad.
How's it going today?
It's good. Beautiful day.
Um, yeah, just, uh, working on taxes because I deferred my taxes and, um, first time I've
ever done that.
And let me tell you when you, um, just little, little Bitcoin side note for all you American

(07:18):
citizens out there.
Um, it's a pain in the ass, uh, keeping track of your cost basis, especially when, uh, BlockFi
and Celsius are bankrupt and don't give you any of your data.
So yeah, having a good time.
Luckily, I didn't really sell any, just a few hundred bucks.

(07:43):
So I'll probably just record it at zero and be good to go.
But yeah, it's a huge pain.
best practice is probably to stick with one Bitcoin only exchange
keep track of that cost basis
maybe have another one as a backup
but if you're anything like me

(08:03):
it's a nightmare dealing with all this shit
yeah it's one of those things
that we have to do
I think if you give it the good old college try
it's probably not worth it for them to spend the money to come after you for a few bucks.

(08:24):
But, yeah, maybe set it at a cost basis of zero and just take care of business.
All right.
Awesome.
I think that's everybody on stage.
Got some other invites out.
If you guys do want to come up again, reminder, love to have you, even some new voices.
I know some of you are just out there listening, but if you want to come up, would love to have you.

(08:47):
So we're going to hop into it.
We're going to revisit this topic that I think you might have touched on a couple of weeks ago, Neil.
This idea of having a boating accident and people just saying, Bitcoin, I don't own it.
I used to. I like it. I'm interested in it.

(09:07):
But I lost my keys versus being prepared and saying to the world, I'm out here.
I don't care. Come take my .01 Bitcoin that I've been saving up. Come and take it.
So I'm going to throw it over to Neil and let him kind of give a better intro than that,

(09:33):
or maybe give us some ideas on this topic and maybe where we can go from here.
Yeah, it's just kind of funny. No matter how you get into Bitcoin, at some point,
you're going to come across this idea of sovereignty, you know, like what that means.

(09:53):
And it's something I've been kind of thinking at the forefront of my mind for, I don't know, a month or so now.
You're not in your.
Is that working?
We lost you for a second.

(10:14):
You might be sitting by an airport or your lawn man is out there mowing your lawn.
Not sure.
Yeah.
Airplane flew over.
Yeah.
So we're chewing on these ideas of self-sovereignty and what it means for you in your life.
And like there are like it's basically two sides of this coin.
And they're both it's it's important to understand that they they both come together.

(10:39):
And just, you know, the idea that, you know, your privacy, the idea that, you know, you as an individual, like Bitcoin enables you to be untouchable, you know, in a sense like you can't be, no one can take the Bitcoin from you unless you give it away.
And that's a really powerful idea.

(10:59):
And, you know, that's kind of what like the rhetoric of the boating accident is pointing out.
You can't be deprived of your Bitcoin. And no matter what, you know, you can keep, you know, the powers that be at bay in that sense.
Like I just plausible deniability that kind of taking a step back, kind of being in the shadows or, you know, the Homer Simpson into the hedge, you know, like you can do that with Bitcoin.

(11:29):
And that's a really powerful thing. But also, you know, when we think about ourselves and how we relate to others and our place in society and.
You know, like we live with other people.
We live, you know, in a community.
Like even if you don't want to call it like your nation or your state or anything like that, you live around other people.

(11:49):
You're connected with other people necessarily.
And how you act and how you relate to other people, you know, that's really important too.
That's a really important part of your human, what it means to be a human being.
And there's something like the flip side of that sovereignty is that that idea that, you know, I'm standing tall and will push back like and when we think about.

(12:18):
like the shifting of the gears. Like when I'm thinking about what approach or like what
principles of sovereignty am I going to be enacting in my life, it really depends upon the domain in
which I'm acting. And when I step into a role as a leader, I think that, you know, leadership and

(12:44):
privacy are kind of antithetical. And to lead is to be in the front, to be seen. And anyone in the
military understands that vividly. You're a squad leader, you're a team leader, you're a platoon
leader, you're a commander. You are in the front, you are visible, you are heard. There is no privacy
as a leader. And when you step into public life, when you step into some advocacy role,

(13:11):
I mean, like, I think, you know, I'm not saying like everybody has to do that and just take that come and take it mentality.
But it's just to be aware of if you are in a leadership role, like you are sacrificing your privacy.
And just that means you have to be a little more hyper aware in other aspects of your, you know, your your self custody plan or, you know, your information and, you know, doxing and all this stuff.

(13:40):
Like, it's just like, you know, I think it's just important to talk about this.
Like these, both of these things are good.
They both have a function and a purpose and it's just the right tool, right job and what
you're trying to do.
And like, for me personally, I'm in the spot where I, I'm really trying to, to, I'm trying
to lead.
I'm trying to orange pill people close to me, people around me, you know, coming, hopping

(14:04):
on a Twitter space or whatever.
some privacy, consciously sacrificing, you know, exposing myself because I think for me personally,
like the time and the place is to like push the message out, like to try to get traction,

(14:26):
to try to help move the ball of orange peeling forward. So it's like, as long as I'm aware of
what I'm doing and what's happening. And like, I can have a plan. I can do it smartly. You know,
like writing a book, like even our founders, you know, like they wrote under pseudonyms,

(14:47):
you know, a lot of they would write into, you know, newspapers and stuff under different
pseudonyms and say, you know, the things that they felt in their heart. But, you know, at some
point they had to put their names, you know, on the declaration. Like, that's kind of the same
thing. Like you can, you can have your privacy and push forward ideas. And then at some point

(15:08):
in a different domains, like you've got to put your name on the line and you got to, you know,
Hey, this is my life, my Liberty, like all this stuff is, it's, you gotta, you, you flop it out
and you put it on the chopping block and you know, you're playing for all the marbles. And I,
But the world I want to create and hand off to my children is like I'm starting to put more and more on the chopping block because I think that the stakes are worth it.

(15:37):
And this is our shot. This is a great shot, great opportunity to destroy central banking, to end fiat and to end the formal slavery that we find ourselves in in this economic reality.
So I don't know. That's just kind of riffing. Hopefully, if any of those ideas like sparked anything else off of other people or whatever.

(15:58):
But that just kind of what I been chewing on and trying to figure out like how I want to navigate through life What what I want to push for Yeah I like that Neil And I don see any hands so I just kind of chime in here
Maybe this is what you got me thinking about a little bit.

(16:21):
Lots of ideas, but one of them was this idea of leadership,
and we've covered this on the show before.
But it gets me thinking about how if you do stick your neck out there, if you are someone who is leading, who is trying to bring people into the fold, that it may actually help you better determine your path.

(16:51):
Meaning you have people who you've told these truths to about Bitcoin and whether it's your family or friends or other people, to some degree, you almost want to show them and you don't want to waver because you've stuck your neck out there.

(17:12):
And so the more and more that you put this information out there, these ideals, this solution, I guess my question is, does in your journey, anybody up here on stage, have you seen where as you stick your neck out there more and more, that you've really, it's given you more resolve or more confidence or more conviction in one, your Bitcoin position,

(17:41):
but also in the ideals and the way you operate.
Does that tee it up for anybody?
Go ahead, Petro.
Yeah, look, I hit every wrong branch on the way down on the Bitcoin make a mistake tree.
So I'd say, you know, first and foremost, I started a project that was, for me, really close to my heart.

(18:11):
In 2017, there was an exodus in Venezuela.
And I had just gotten clipped for trying to bring oil and gas, Bitcoin, and just being way too early.
And I shifted to that and it really forced me to evaluate Bitcoin from the perspective of somebody that would probably never maybe even have a smartphone.

(18:37):
And that experience of teaching people a very technical thing that then turned around and gave them an additional level of freedom that they didn't have before.
that really cemented in me before even really truly understanding the economic and like,

(19:01):
you know, money side of Bitcoin. It really gave me the censorship resistant and get people out of
trouble sense. Like that was a bigger lesson that I learned before I learned the lesson of 21 million
and all of that. It really wasn't until like 2018, 2019, when I started really kind of digging into

(19:24):
the texts, like everybody's writings and really kind of reading and really strengthening my
position, my mental position around the arguments for Bitcoin that I really believed more in the
monetary side of it. I was more of a network and technology guy and just a counterculture person.

(19:48):
So like I'm always doing the things that other people don't want to do first. That's just my way.
And so when I see, when I saw that and eventually it failed because we failed because of our own
success. When you're giving away $5 of anything in a place where people are having trouble eating,
you are going to be dancing with the dangers of that situation. And unfortunately, we have,

(20:14):
you know, our setups were really intended to only take care of about 15 to 20 people. And the last
event where I had to shut down the project, we had over 300 people hit us. And guys, you tell
300 people that you don't have any more food, and you're in a world of pain. I mean, like,
you could really get in trouble there with the people that are working for you, or they're
organizing the event. So, you know, for me, that eventually led into starting Fort Bitcoin,

(20:42):
which is the Fort Worth Bitcoin meetup. And that really had the goal of orange pilling the
university. I say all of this because you can't do any of this by being anonymous. Like I have
completely given up my anonymity. I have completely given up the fact that I am not a public person.

(21:03):
I am a public person. I get up here and I don't care if I say my first name and dot myself because you guys already are going to come see me when I go speak in places or when I set up meetups.
So to me, this is something that is. It's a challenge in that I recognize the risk of being a forward person in in Bitcoin.

(21:24):
I recognize that, you know, telling somebody that I'm a class of 2013, they might think I'm a gajillionaire, but I'm not.
Um, and, and so these are both risks and opportunity that I see in my life.
The opportunity for me is that I educate the people around me, that I put the city of Fort

(21:45):
Worth's feet to the fire to the fact that they said they were the first Bitcoin mining,
uh, municipality in the United States.
Um, and so for me, it's a, I can, I am willing to affect the circle of influence around me.
And that is both geographic and, you know, at a social level.
And so you cannot do that being anonymous.

(22:07):
You must raise your hand and lead from the front.
And I think that veterans really know that well.
So, yeah, I mean, I think it's a maturing step.
But it also, for me, unfortunately, as much as it completely galvanized my belief in Bitcoin,
it also galvanized my belief that being a maxi is wrong, that it doesn't help, that what it does

(22:32):
is it drives people the other direction because it doesn't allow for moderate discourse. And you're
going to gain more people with moderate discourse and by bringing the subject to them where they are.
You cannot try to browbeat somebody with technical language. You cannot try to browbeat somebody with

(22:52):
your Austrian economic philosophies. The only thing that you can do is show them this is a
better idea and let them come to that idea. Everything else is just you serving yourself
and your ego. And that's a tough, tough one to learn. So I would, I would caution everybody to,
you know, measure the risks and reward of being a public person, and then understand that you're

(23:14):
not going to be able to say, I had a boating accident when you're telling people, hey, buy
Bitcoin, because it's going to save, it's going to save you in the future. Like those are
antithetical to one another. Yeah, very good comments. And thank you for that. Does get me
thinking. And obviously, we've gotten some hands up. So this is great, guys. We're going to get
participation more than just everyone having to listen to me this morning. And Neil, all right,

(23:40):
BFP, go ahead. Yeah, I just wanted to touch on something BitPatre said. He said,
being a Bitcoin Maxie turns people off.
And that being said, I don't like being labeled anything.
Now, if you define Bitcoin Maxie as only Bitcoin

(24:02):
and I don't entertain other stuff,
well, yeah, that's me,
but I don't consider myself a Bitcoin maximalist
where I'm toxic to people and I talk, you know,
like that kind of way.
But Bitcoin Maxie was a trope to make fun of people that were Bitcoin only way back in the day.

(24:23):
And then they turned it on its head and made it like a badge of honor like Bitcoiners all do.
They always take the negative and turn it into a positive.
But I don't like labels.
So I'm not a Democrat.
I'm not a Republican.
And I'm definitely not going to be labeled this or that.
I have Bitcoin for precedence.

(24:45):
as my label because it was Bitcoin for president before.
And I like equivocations and messing people's with, you know,
and I'm out front, even look up my name.
I'm Golf Lynch all over the internet.
It's my name is easy to pull up.
So I'm with you on that.
But yeah, I just I don't like that whole Bitcoin maximalist

(25:11):
trope either.
I'm with them on that.
Good stuff. Pubby, thanks for raising your hand. How are you this morning? And what say you?
Yeah, good morning. Yeah, that's, you know, always the classic meme here, right? Yep.
Going bulletin today, boys. Probably going to come back empty handed.
And I'm still trying to track down what had happened. I guess it was this past March and it was in a case in Puerto Rico.

(25:36):
There was a guy that I guess he had about 120 Bitcoin and they were trying to get it back in some some civil and criminal matter.
But when they gave him the court order, I guess within the next day, he had transferred all of it among multiple wallets.
And they started to fine him $10,000 daily.

(25:57):
And guess what wasn't working for him?
Well, I had a boating accident.
It wasn't working because it had already been established that he was in possession at that time.
And I believe there was a case they had cited previously.
Someone went to jail for four years just because they would not turn those funds over.
Now, moving forward, I don't know what the legality will say, but it's insidious.

(26:19):
So on the one hand, yes, you control your keys.
They will not be able to get it.
But how far are you willing to go to have lost your keys, man?
It's going to be interesting to watch these tax laws and criminal laws play out because there's nothing really to it.
And it's different.
Look, I get it, guys.
You people out there, I'm going to a Bitcoin conference.

(26:42):
here's $20 for a Bitcoin hat
you know here's $40 I'm going to get a
Bitcoin t-shirt
are they coming where you
bought something off in exchange and you
transferred it to one wallet
then a lightning wallet then you paid
that sum for something
probably not but larger
sums we're talking yeah who knows man

(27:02):
it's interesting but I think it's a great topic
Bob
four years in prison
And you can force toddle there to come out.
Well, that's what he said.
And this is back in March, but apparently what was $10 million has doubled just by him not turning it over.

(27:24):
So you're right.
What are you going to pay for your time in prison?
I'm changing the name of the space to Bitcoin changed me.
Actually, it was prison.
Wow, that's crazy.
You know, hey, to be put in contempt of court over your stack, I guess we could argue that point.
Let's shift it back to, yeah, the main topic here, which is, I think, you know, maybe this is, maybe this boating accident thing is a, it's kind of tongue in cheek, right?

(28:00):
Because some people are saying it like, hey, yeah, I don't have any Bitcoin.
I'm not a target.
But other people, I think it's tongue in cheek because a lot of people have been over the years very careless with their keys.
Right. And so people have lost large sums of Bitcoin.
And at the time, it probably wasn't worth very much.

(28:23):
And their security measures weren't or the importance wasn't there for them.
And so they probably didn't take care of the keys as much.
BFP, I see your hand.
Go ahead.
Well, I think the more cases like that get brought to attention,

(28:43):
we're going to have a divergence of KYC.
People are not going to just go and buy KYC, AML, Bitcoin.
And that, I think, is something they're very aware of,
and they don't want to make that a thing.
They want to keep people going through the gates.
they want to keep all their farm animals on the land and keep them enslaved like they're used to

(29:07):
being if they bring awareness to how this all works you're going to see mass you know masses
buy kyc free and then there's you don't your dog could own your wallet you know there's no uh you
don't need a social security number or a phone number or an address or anything to buy bitcoin

(29:30):
go to your meetups like Jimmy says
in any country in the world
so you can't make laws
on something
where it's a worldwide phenomenon
US can make all the laws they want
just like in Chicago
you can put gun law after gun law
in Chicago
but people are still going to carry guns

(29:52):
to stay alive
that's just how it works
natural law supersedes legalities
Yeah, thanks for that. We're about halfway through the hour. Please do share the space, guys.
Again, if you'd like to come up and chime in, use that microphone button in the bottom left.
We like audience participation, so throw your comments down in that purple pill in the right.

(30:19):
And anybody else have anything else to say on this topic, guys?
Or should we shift gears to something else?
give me uh nobody's coming off mute so we're gonna shift um maybe neil why don't you why don't
you wrap this up uh for us maybe final thoughts on this topic and then we'll we'll move on if if

(30:41):
that's okay if i can put you on the spot yeah yeah sure i i think the biggest takeaway uh you know
when it just comes to this like idea of sovereignty is just actually realizing that you
like you you are a sovereign agent you are a moral agent you have uh
over like how you interact and go through the world then we you realize and i i think that's

(31:10):
one of the most terrifying things you know is is not that like oh we're being oppressed and abused
it's that oh I actually don't have to put up with this abuse there's actually something I can do
about it like the the flipping of the you know I'm a victim to actually I'm a human being with

(31:32):
dignity and I'm a sovereign moral agent um I can seize my dignity back I
the world's walking mat I'm not a sail flapping in the wind
I'm actually driving my life forward. I'm choosing where it goes. I'm choosing what's important to me,

(31:53):
what values I'm striving to enact. For me personally, that was the most terrifying gear switch,
but it also the most important steps along my journey was just that transition from just I have to take this to no no I can do something about it And you know that we all have that that latent potential that inherent power in us as a human being to

(32:30):
to actualize that, that sovereignty. It's just a choice. It's like, you know,
so I think that that's really cool. That's a, I mean, it's just such a huge fulcrum that you
can just lever so much from it in your life and completely transform it.
But it's just like that, that is terrifying.

(32:51):
But it also comes with, you know, responsibility.
Because when you do do that, you know, I'm responsible for not only my life, but my family's
life and my children's life.
And it can get a little overwhelming when you just like try to just slurp that all up,
you know, in an instant.
It takes a little bit of time to digest, but I mean, I don't know.

(33:15):
It's to me, it's like invaluable, you know, like that's that's that feeling of walking through my life as like as a fully upright, dignified human being.
Like I cannot put a price on that.
So it's like that's the thing that stabilizes my resolve and conviction through volatility.

(33:37):
because like I'm actually getting this immense value, this intangible, you know, value of just
my human experience is elevated as something so much more than, you know, this little,
I may be a pleb, but I don't walk around as a pleb. You know, I walk around as a full,

(34:00):
you know, fully dignified human being. And that's amazing. And it feels great and it spreads. And I'm
trying to pass that on to the people around me, you know, like they talk about, you know, like,
you know, attitude is contagious. Attitude spreads. And it's just like, you know, when you spread that
to the other people around you and you feed, it's like a reciprocal, uh, you know, it's like a

(34:20):
positive feedback loop. You know, the, the people that I'm close with when they succeed, you know,
I'm help. I, it's, it feels good to be a part of their success and their success bounces back to
you and motivates you. And it's just like, everybody crushes life. And that's just like,
it's really awesome. And it's like, you compare that to your life. And just like, I just getting

(34:42):
beaten down by my nine to five and I'm have no meaning and there's no purpose. And I'm just
depressed. And I might as well just drink it away or drug it away or gamble it away. Like,
like that's, that's what we're completely in
your human life.
And I don't know, that's just the,

(35:04):
that all is, that all that comes unpacked
from just this idea of sovereignty.
So it's just like, you know,
wherever you're at in your journey,
if you're teasing around with that idea or whatever,
like that, it's something worth thinking about.
It's something worth digesting.
It was like, I don't know, but that's,
I'll just land it there.

(35:26):
Yeah, anybody else have any thoughts on what Neil just laid out?
I think it's a really good way to tee it off.
Go ahead, BFP.
Yeah, I think that was a long-winded way.
I said that's kind of negative.

(35:46):
But basically, he roundabout said it gives you this feeling inside of something like you have control or sovereignty of your money, which changes your whole outlook on life.
and real quick I went to

(36:07):
I've been put in prison
believe it or not for four and a half months
and it was
unlawfully in prison
for not showing up
to a mental competency test
if you can believe that
and I had a little bit
of Bitcoin and when I got
out I had three times more

(36:27):
Bitcoin I mean three times
more in dollars
when I got out
So my little tiny stack was worth three times more in dollar bills.
So I know how it can be to HODL.
And I stayed positive and I taught a bunch of people about Bitcoin while I was in there.

(36:48):
Told them the books to read.
And, you know, I got more physically fit and enjoyed my time.
Met a bunch of people and lived on.
So they can't mess with your mind because it is mind control is what they want.
They want control over your mind. And with Bitcoin, it just gives you this.
You're floating on air. No one can mess with you. You're sovereign.

(37:13):
So it is a mental thing. And Neil, I totally agree with like all that stuff.
You broke up a little bit, so I didn't catch everything.
But it's very uplifting, the whole concept of being sovereign.
BFP, I really appreciate you sharing that. And I do think we don't have to camp out here, but I do have a couple of questions for you because I do think it's really important. You could choose and maybe you went through it. I don't know how much you want to share, but maybe there was this period of mourning when you went in there because you're away from family, friends, all that stuff. Your freedom's taken from you.

(37:53):
but I want to key in on this point about attitude and having a strong mind and using it to the best of your ability.
So where did you get that idea, I guess, that you should use this for good?
Because obviously it's an interruption to your life.

(38:14):
And so just curious, like, have you reflected on it?
Do you have thoughts?
And where did you get that idea?
Yeah, basically, I flipped my brain in 2021 to realize what Bitcoin was.
I had heard about it a long time ago when it was 67 cents, and I thought it was a scam.
And I lost $100 in Mt. Gox, and I traded it like a stock on Coinbase.

(38:41):
But in 2021, the GameStop thing changed me.
And that's when I started reading book after book on Bitcoin.
And then in 2023 was when I got incarcerated in August.
And yeah, I did have like two or three days of just, you know, wallowing in despair and hearing my young daughter's voice.

(39:07):
You know, it was hard to even keep from, you know, crying on the phone.
So I had to hang up real quick, but I didn't I didn't like being away from my family.
But, you know, after two or three days, the human in me just, you know, I'm an eternal optimist.
And Bitcoin gives you that walking on air feeling.

(39:28):
And so I just, you know, started working out and reading books and talking to people and, you know, making friends real quick.
And they moved me like they call it diesel therapy, but they moved me like 12 different times in four and a half months.
so I don't know if they were trying to make me crazy so then when they gave me the mental

(39:50):
competency test uh then they could say yeah look he's crazy but um it was it was quite an adventure
and uh I met a lot of cool people a lot of people that are um veterans that are in there
like not there's a lot of uh gnarly things that um I learned in there that I'll never

(40:13):
I would have never learned the things I learned in there out on the outside.
So I appreciate it, actually.
Adversity makes you stronger and I appreciate my time in there, believe it or not.
Yeah, it sounds like a wild story.
We could probably do an entire episode on that.

(40:34):
So it seemed like people were receptive to this idea of Bitcoin once you had finally come around.
So what's, yeah, tell us about the responses.
I mean, obviously, they're kind of captive in there, right?
So it's kind of like, you have to listen to their downtrodden too.

(40:57):
And so they very much are, they're so much more receptive to it.
I mean, they were writing down these books because I would write down six books, you know, I'd give them the the basic money layer by Nick Batia.
I'd give them the Bitcoin standard by Saif Adin.
And thank God for Bitcoin for, you know, I would just give them like six books off Jeff Booth's and people would write them down.

(41:27):
And, you know, and then another guy would come up, oh, hey, can I get a list?
You know, it's very when you're when you're down in the dumps and you hold on to hope for anything.
And those people are very, you know, holding on for anything that any kind of spark that gives them hope inside there.

(41:52):
They're receptive to it. And some people have a lot of money in there, believe it or not.
And I heard a fantastic Bitcoin story from an Asian guy in Chickasha, Oklahoma.
But I'll get into that some other time.
We don't have time for that.
But it was a come up for sure.
Big time.

(42:13):
It was a crazy story, too.
Yeah, I think that this is maybe on the other side of it, what we don't, most of us don't understand.
So if you're in the United States and you've tried to talk to people about Bitcoin, a lot of people, the main reason that they're not listening to you is because they don't perceive the issue.

(42:39):
They don't perceive the problem.
And so, you know, I think what, if I may, BFP, what you probably experienced was people who probably view their life at a low point.
and, one, were able to more easily see the problem, but, two, they were receptive just because of their situation.

(43:07):
And it gets me thinking, like, you know, we talk about it a lot, and Jimmy's up here,
but third world countries and even, you know, countries like Mexico have seen their currencies debased,
and these people just more readily see the problem.
And so it almost gets me thinking, BFP, that you were on a trip across the world to a different place,

(43:35):
yet you're right here in the United States and able to see these people who, yeah, could digest the information.
One, because, yeah, again, they were captive, but two, they were receptive because they had this adversity.
it it was truly surreal and it it was uh it was cool to see how receptive people are in that mode

(44:02):
and some people you know were familiar there was a guy in mcc chicago who was in there for six
months he's a coast guard guy and it was something to do with a ticket he brought out the bitcoin
magazine and he was uh he let me borrow it but some people know about it and uh you know some

(44:24):
people the guards they were very interested in the books i was um because they're in jail with
you too and they don't get paid anything hardly so it just gives the working man a shot especially
like a guard he can uh he can definitely um come up anyone in the trades can come up you know you

(44:44):
just saving Bitcoin and be
producer Eric I think is playing with us a little bit here
sorry about the mute go ahead BFP no worries
it's all good yeah I
had something I can't remember what I was

(45:08):
I had a thought that was
crossed my brain but I forgot it no worries
So don't worry.
All right, Jimmy, you got your hand up.
Thanks for coming up.
And what are your thoughts on this?
Oh, good morning.
First off, I got to say, yeah, P's real.
I've met him.
So I'll verify that.
On top of that, yeah, you guys talking about this stuff gets me thinking.

(45:31):
And it's like, what's the top of the white paper say?
Peer to peer.
So, you see, the thing is about using exchanges and playing the games,
it's a master strategy or whatever they are ETFs all this stuff is you're still feeding the monster
you're still playing with the game and once you get away from it it really changes you I've got

(45:52):
friends that are still trading and they're trying to get me into it and I'm like I don't want to
trade stocks I don't even do it I'm glad that I don't have to and like but you could make guys
it's not always about making more and more and more how about if you can just keep your purchasing
power for the future that's why I got into Bitcoin the fact that I've made so many gains is insane
I didn't come in for a number go up.
I didn't even know that would happen.
But then as I understood it, it was like, oh, obviously it's going to happen.

(46:15):
And so it was like a secondary thing to me.
But a lot of people, I get into it for a number go, I get it.
But I can't believe how many people still use exchanges.
Guys, I mean, I did put a lot in IRA, and that's how I can sell it and build and do things without paying a lot of taxes.
I don't like third parties.
I don't like, I mean, it's held with BICTO.
It's a pretty safe system.
It seems to be decent.
but there is another way of doing it where you can hold your own keys,

(46:37):
which I recommend if you're going to do an IRA.
But it's all about taxation.
But just overall, you see what's going on in the world, all over the world.
I mean, I joked with my dad that World War III was going to be the entire world at civil war.
Well, it seems to be exactly what's going to happen.
And it's happening.
People are revolting, and they're going to.
And the governments are going to fight back, and as the globalist bullshit happens

(46:58):
and the Islamic crap happens and all the shit that's going to happen,
I don't know what's going to go next.
But all I know is I feel a lot safer holding my own keys and knowing that most of what I have personally was bought from other people.
And we trade all the time.
Make friends in real life of Bitcoiners.
It will serve you in every way.
It's really what this network's about.

(47:19):
It's the most powerful part about it is the network of people you can connect with.
I can text somebody I did yesterday.
And, yeah, got you covered.
Boom, taken care of.
And it was just like, you know, and I had bought and sold from the same people.
I love knowing that if somebody is going to make a bunch of money off my coin, they're my friends.
It's a great feeling.
I know exactly who's made a lot of money out of buying a coin from me, and they've done the same with me.

(47:42):
I mean, I've made it off of them.
So, you know, it's kind of nice to work with people you know.
You know, it's like we're all our own bank when you do it right.
And you run your node, you connect it to a wallet.
It's true sovereignty.
And in that sense, you know, Mexico, America, I don't care where you live.
I don't think there's any perfect place in the world.
I don't think there's any place we're going to avoid the clown world for a while.

(48:02):
So hunker down, and I think it's just stack your stats.
And, you know, again, if you're only stacking, you don't have to worry about the taxation.
But still, stack personally, peer-to-peer.
It just makes no sense to use exchanges.
You're just feeding a monster.
Anyway, that's it.
Yeah, good stuff.
Did want to welcome Tao to the stage.
Had his hand up for a brief moment and then took it down Maybe Jimmy answered his question Good morning Tav Good morning No no it a really important point what Jimmy pointed out The thing is

(48:37):
it's so powerful. Look, the fact that you can fully control your money, it's so powerful.
I don't know how people feel, but ever since I discovered Bitcoin and it allowed me to do
such a thing and now with how there are certain merchants that are accepting bitcoin in a big way

(49:00):
like stake and shake those sort of experiences is what like kind of just just just makes me like
sort of completes this whole sort of like notion i have or idea i have for the future with bitcoin
So you have your cold storage, but at the same time, we have even more merchants mass adoption.

(49:22):
Just imagine the beauty of that.
I mean, you can have your node running at home.
You can go anywhere in the world, and you can actually pay for whatever you want, and it's coming out of your bank.
It's your system.
Like, hey, I might be in Italy, but I'm going to zap you some sats from my node that's sitting at home that has sats ready to send you.

(49:48):
I'm not waiting for no third party or anybody to be open or permission and things like that.
It's a beautiful thing.
That's why, like, when you guys say this, I truly believe it.
I mean, I truly believe it.
Now, I know people talk about, well, you're doing these other things.
Well, that's a different sort of topic, right?

(50:10):
There's reasons why people may be doing that for various reasons, like the taxing situation, etc.
And one last point I just want to point out is, it's just weird.
Like, when I discovered this concept for the first time, it's weird, right?
It's like many, many years ago, when I started talking to more people on Bitcoin Twitter, they taught me a lot of things.

(50:32):
and one of the things that they taught me,
they just brought it up because I never thought about it in this way.
And that is, you know how you guys mentioned people who are like in,
let's say, out of Saudi or Venezuela,
they get the concept of money much better than people in the first world.

(50:55):
And that kind of like threw me for a loop there because I was like,
You know, the people here, they go to college, they get a degree.
Supposedly, they're more educated.
And thus, they should know about money, the economy, and things like that.
And that's not what it is, right?
The people in the third world, because they actually went through that experience of hyperinflation,

(51:23):
they understand it even more, right?
It's kind of ironic in a way.
When I see that, I feel like, yeah, you're right.
Like when they tell me, it's like they are more like understanding of how it works, the system, because they actually are forced to know it.
Like the force, like what the heck?
My loaf of bread costs me a hundred bucks now and it was only like three dollars a week ago or something.

(51:47):
So, yes, I feel that point very ironic.
I think a lot of people in the first world has a lot to learn in that context.
Yeah, it gets me thinking that, you know, we've heard this a thousand times in Bitcoin spaces, but the denominator is screwed up.
And so people in other countries see that a lot more readily than people who use dollars all the time.

(52:13):
We see that evidence we covered on the show yesterday about central banks acquiring gold and gold being at an all time high.
And I don't think that this leads to these other countries trying to back their currencies with gold,
which, interestingly enough, I think would make a lot of sense,

(52:35):
that someone would try to compete with the dollar by doing that,
but it'd probably create a war, right?
Because the U.S. doesn't want to lose dollar dominance.
Jimmy, is your hand still up? I want to make sure I get to you here.
I was just going to add one quick tip to what I was saying is that a lot of people say to me, well, I don't know how to do that.

(52:57):
I mean, I've got friends, but they're all over the place.
And it's like, yeah, one of the things you got to think out of the box.
If somebody, I'm talking to a buddy of mine six months ago, he needs to make a flight.
He doesn't, he's going to use Bitcoin.
I said, I'll just put it on my card and you pay me.
You buy dinner for people, get reimbursed.
There's ways to use so many ways to get this done.
And if you get creative about it, you really can create a network.

(53:18):
I rarely buy bank accounts I haven't used in months.
They're about ready to get shut down, and I don't need them.
And these apps that I use in Mexico and apps that are coming up in the United States are replacing these things.
So you become your own bank, and it really is something.
But if you're in these spaces, I would not recommend everybody do all no KYC.
If you're in these spaces, you obviously have Bitcoin.

(53:39):
So having a little of both is really the way to go because you want true sovereignty.
You want to be able to, you know, have your own literally off the exchanges.
And if you bought other, don't mix them.
But just keep in mind that, you know, it's worth it because shit's happening in the world.
And you'll see all over the world, people are going to wake up to the fact that the people have the power.

(54:00):
Look what happened with Cracker Barrel.
Look what happened with the woman that steals the baseball from a kid.
Look what's happening to politicians all over the world.
They're being discovered because of social media.
They shut down social media in Nepal.
I'm sure many of you have seen what happened.
The people are not going to tolerate this shit.
It's nature. You're not going to control humans the way they think.
It doesn't work, but it's not going to be an easy transition.

(54:22):
But I believe that transition is coming and this is what it's about.
So you have to fight, not necessarily just step to the side, create a parallel way to live and watch the fucking show.
Yeah, lots of places we could go there.
I heard that lady on at the Phillies game that took that baseball.
She got fired from her job and people are threatening her.

(54:45):
That's it's interesting, though, to see the effects of social media.
And so, yeah, I mean, I've seen a lot of things with this thing in Nepal where the people are are rising up.
And it is interesting because it's a great tool, but it's also a dangerous tool.
And so I think it's a danger for governments.

(55:06):
But that's why I think the U.S. is, you know, it seems like we've opened it up so that people will kind of out themselves.
And now you can be monitored and tracked.
I was reminded of something that happened, I think, about a year ago in Dallas where a guy was imprisoned because he had installed device, camera devices that had tracking and where he was effectively sending images back to China.

(55:42):
And so, you know, you see all these new devices.
I don't know if you guys have heard of Flock.
I think we've touched on it before.
But these law enforcement agencies are putting them, yeah, all over and able to track movements of, you know,

(56:02):
supposed criminals or stolen vehicles or things like that.
And for right now, they seem like, you know, it helps and aids law enforcement.
But you can see where this technology, along with social media, and we've talked about Palantir and others, where it does become an issue.

(56:24):
Now, maybe I'm a little off topic here, but I do think that this kind of goes back to kind of what Neil was saying, which is that it's kind of like control the controllables.
And so with Bitcoin, you kind of have a little bit more, kind of, you have a lot more freedom.

(56:45):
And because you can send it yourself, it's probably something that you want to adopt.
I do like this idea of, or just this imagery that Neil painted about, you know, having your head held high,
that you have dignity because your money can't be messed with.
But Tao, I think we have your hand back up.

(57:07):
Go ahead, sir.
Yeah, I know.
You guys are talking about technology, and it just reminded me of something that I want to say.
And this is really, really difficult with technology.
I struggle with this sometimes myself.
So if you think about it, I think technology, it has limited our capacity in empathy and compassion.

(57:31):
And the reason why I say that is because like how we use the platform, it has not, it connected us, but it also kind of like removed a lot of those sort of like in-person interaction, feeling, tone, expression, and that connectionness, that connection between people when you're seeing them together or like face to face.

(58:00):
and I just think people these days, oh, they just send a text because it's nice and simple
or like they don't even bother to send a text because there's like, oh, if you want to reach me,
you can totally reach me and I'm just right there.
And so you never bother even reaching out to people or talking to people as much as before.

(58:23):
Before, you would be excited and everything and it takes effort to do such a thing, right?
It's a big deal.
These days, when people are going to hang out, they still are on their phones instead of really just interacting with each other face-to-face.
And so there's that sort of empathy that I was referring to.
You're not doing the interaction that human interaction, I think, should have.

(58:46):
The thing is, technology also brings us really, really good things like efficiency to certain tasks that we need to accomplish.
and, of course, Bitcoin and all these other amazing little things that exist.
So to me, I don't think it's clear-cut either way,
and I just think people need to evaluate for themselves

(59:09):
and really be mindful, really pay attention to how you're using technology
and the effects, okay, the effects that it has on you.
because I think people always look at only the benefits
and not necessarily the effects.
I think the effects are actually way more
on a person and their lives, right?

(59:33):
I mean, you have families who are just
eating dinner on their iPhone.
They're not even like sitting together to each other.
They're eating separately on the iPhone, iPad or whatever.
Just things like that.
It's just, to me, I don't like that.
I hate that.
And I just wish that, you know, we are mindful about that.

(59:54):
But to me, it feels like the direction of society is going in that direction, unfortunately.
And because we're going in that direction, that also impacts all these other things that are happening, you know.
So you guys bring this up.
I think it's a very important topic to discuss how, you know, technology affects us.

(01:00:15):
And what are some of the ways to kind of like try to mitigate that sort of thing?
The negative parts of technology, right?
How to mitigate that.
So, yeah, that's all I just wanted to say.
Thanks.
Yeah, thanks, Tal.
And I do think it's something that, you know, if we're all honest, that we all struggle with.

(01:00:37):
I'm sure it'll come up a lot more in the future as it becomes more pervasive.
And, you know, even as the older generations pass away and we know we have digitally native generations coming up, I think the problem likely gets worse before it gets better.

(01:00:58):
I don't know if you guys have ever had one of those days, though, where everybody comes out of the woodwork to contact you.
But that's the day I'm having.
So before this show, didn't have as much time to prep.
I'm glad we got this topic.
I want to thank everybody who was up here on stage.
And by the way, I do have lots of other people to get back to,

(01:01:20):
so I don't know what's going on.
Maybe it's – I don't think it's a full moon, but kind of weird stuff's going on.
So hopefully everybody else has a great day.
I think my day is super full.
But once again, thank everybody for listening.
We do this every weekday, 10 a.m. Eastern.
We'll do it again tomorrow.
hopefully I'll be more prepped for the show

(01:01:40):
but do want to say thank you to all our
speakers
so
I'm also saying this
because this is terrible
I was literally
I guess a little bit hypocrite
yesterday I was talking to
AI and I'm

(01:02:01):
like what the heck
it's so advanced right it's almost like a person
you're talking to so I was literally
talking to AI as if it was another person just giving me advice and things, information.
And it's scary.
I'm pointing this out because I'm going through it myself and I feel scary.
It's really that scary.

(01:02:21):
Yeah, I was telling a friend last night that I used AI just to see what it would tell me
if I wanted to go on a trip.
Like, could it plan a trip for me?
And he's like, what could go wrong?
It's going to tell you everything that you say is right.
And I don't know, it was just kind of funny.
Kyle, Captain Trips, go ahead.

(01:02:42):
Bob, I do want to say thanks for hosting again today.
And yes, actually, it was a full moon and a total lunar eclipse three days ago.
So if you're getting some weird, you know, that might have something to do with people coming out of work.
I certainly had a day like that yesterday.
Yeah, it's funny.
You know, I don't believe in all that stuff.
But I do think it's it was something in banking where I had 21 years in banking and it always just seemed when there was a full moon that just the strangest things would happen.

(01:03:14):
I don't know if it's like the pressure or if people are just nuts or what it is, but it just does seem like people are come out of the woodwork around those times.
So anyway, that's just some weird stuff from my life.
But thanks for chiming in on that.
Guys, if you need help on your Bitcoin journey, go to BitcoinVeterans.org.

(01:03:37):
Fill out that form.
We'll help answer any questions that you have.
Get you plugged into helpful resources.
Again, we do this every weekday, 10 a.m. Eastern.
Again, I want to thank everybody who came up and spoke.
And, yeah, I guess that's all we have for today.
I want to wish you a wonderful and fantastic Wednesday.
And remember not to shitcoin.

(01:04:04):
It's like posting pictures on social media while you're on vacation.
People that use fiat currency as a store of value,
We call them, we core, core, core.
We call them, we core.