Everyday People Ep. 241

Join Bob and company as they discuss what will it take for everyday people to find bitcoin?

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Thank you.

(00:30):
All right, we got a little bit of an echo, so let me fix that.
It's a Tuesday, feeling like a Monday.
Bet you guys are used to it by now.
I'm always playing around with all of the devices that I have to produce and talk on this show as the host.

(00:54):
By the way, my name is Bob Van Kirk.
Welcome to Bitcoin Veterans Faces number 241.
where we talk about Bitcoin.
And let's see, today is Tuesday, August 12th.
Is that right?
Wow.
The 12th of August, 2025.
Let's take a look at the time chain today.
We are at Bitcoin block height number 909,697

(01:18):
with the Bitcoin price just below $119,000,
which means you can still pick up just over 840 sats for each U.S. dollar.
We're going to try something this morning that I promised yesterday, which is we're going to let Mining Goblin from yesterday.

(01:39):
I have a recording. Give us the announcement for Bitcoin veterans.
So bear with me one second while I cue that up on the BV handle.
November 10th and 11th this year, the year of our Lord 2025 in Nashville, Tennessee, at the Bitcoin Park in Nashville.

(02:06):
We will host a one-day event, a panel, speakers, workshops.
It's going to be a free flow.
We'll have a main stage with panels and speakers.
But if that doesn't scratch your head, we're going to have hands-on activities in the other building with hardware wallets, guns, Bitcoin miners,
and any other doodads, wizards, or gizmos that you can use your hands on that are relevant to Freedom Tech and the broader Bitcoin veteran submission.

(02:28):
If you're interested in something like that,
bitcoinveterance.org slash summit2025 is where you get more information.
Sign up on the waitlist on meetup.com, and we will be in touch for ticketing.
The second day is going to be a range day called Range Day and other stuff.
So if you're a veteran, if you're not, it doesn't matter.
You're all welcome at this event.
I mean, it is geared and thinking around Bitcoin, as is everything Bitcoin Veterans does.

(02:49):
But if you've never held a gun, you've never shot a gun, come out and join us.
You want to learn from the people that know how to use these tools in the best way possible.
We will teach you how to properly handle a firearm, how to manipulate a firearm.
And if you're a more advanced shooter, intermediate or advanced, you send rounds down range and you're proficient with the tools and the trade,
come out and join us and we'll have some friendly competition.

(03:11):
And wait for some staff on the line.
So, T-Day event, November 10th and 11th, Nashville, Tennessee, Bitcoin Veterans Summit.
Be there or else.
All right. Thanks for bearing with me on that one.
I wanted to say good morning to everyone who joins us each day.

(03:34):
If you guys want to participate, we'd love to have new voices up here.
Please do hit that microphone button in the bottom left.
Love to have you up here.
And if you can't, you're just listening while you're at work or driving in the car and don't want to come up because you're shy.
hit that purple pill in the bottom right and leave your comments your questions snide remarks

(03:55):
and maybe a meme and we will try to address those during the show did want to say good morning as
well to our panel so far up here we have neil pubby and coleman and bfp neil start with you
how are you doing this morning sir uh doing good uh driving up to meet the uh illustrator that did

(04:15):
the cover and book design for the book.
So it would be cool to meet her in real life and say thanks and deliver a book.
Very cool.
Drive safely, my friend.
BFP, good morning.
How are you this morning?
Good morning, Bob.
Thanks for having me.
Walking the dog.

(04:36):
Waiting for some Matrix birds or just birds, but feel free when you hear them.
Pubby, any beers yet?
Breakfast beers.
Good morning.
Oh, no beers. You haven't heard. I actually quit drinking. So that's good. Hey, look, for the low, low price of one hundred and twenty thousand dollars, you too can be a whole coiner. That's right.

(04:57):
And I bring that up only because I saw a little video from Adam Meister, the Bitcoin Meister, if you guys remember him. And that was a little bit for my time.
But he did a show saying, look, for your financial future, buy six Bitcoin for ten thousand dollars.
That's it. He said take ten grand and buy six Bitcoin.
And yeah, he's proven right so far. But yeah, good morning.

(05:22):
Yeah, thanks for joining us. Always fun to look back on some of those things.
There's that gentleman who was, I think, in Africa that comes up from time to time begging people or not begging them, just getting kind of crazy and sternly telling everybody to buy Bitcoin when it was around a dollar.

(05:42):
So I wonder what happened to that gentleman.
But always fun to look back.
Coleman, good morning, sir.
How are you?
Hey, good morning, everybody.
I am doing well.
No complaints.
Just living life, loving life.
Goldman, here's a reminder not to skip leg day and Texas Toast.
How are you this morning? Thanks for coming up and co-hosting.

(06:03):
Good morning. The conference thing has me or the what are we calling it?
The summit has has me thinking about all the stuff that, you know,
Bitcoiners have touched over the last like four years, at least around here.

(06:24):
One thing that comes to mind is like MeshTastic and some of these more secure comms.
It'd be cool if there was a booth or something kind of going over a communications booth,
kind of highlighting some of the different tools that are out there.
I don't know.
But other than that, having a great morning.
Awesome.

(06:44):
Yeah, put your request in, guys.
They are looking for contributors.
Hopefully somebody takes up the mantle on that one.
There's going to be other great speakers, topics, maybe even booths with some interesting information.
So be sure to join us at the Bitcoin Veterans Summit 2025.

(07:06):
But with that, I think we've said good morning to everybody.
And we have about 56 people in the space.
Again, welcome, welcome.
And if you can, re-post the space so we can get more people in here and get people on their journey for this Bitcoin journey.
All right, let's see.

(07:27):
So where do we want to start, guys?
I did title the space Everyday People, kind of benign.
But I was having a conversation, admittedly, with AI because my kids keep telling me,
Dad, you should really do this.
You should really type some things in and go back and forth and argue with the AI.
And so I went in and said to Grok, what would be the, actually not Grok, I did OpenAI this time.

(07:54):
What would be the most effective way or what event would make the average person in the United States stop and try to understand Bitcoin?
And so it came back with a whole bunch of different things.
And I thought this might be fun to kick around today as people look, you know, maybe as they carry on our conversation from yesterday a little bit on the significance of digital scarcity.

(08:19):
But the interesting thing to me was OpenAI or chat GBT5, I guess it is, came up with three main ideas.
And the first one was it was really trying to steer me down this idea of a highly visible bank or payment system failure.

(08:42):
So whether it's a bank or a fintech like Venmo, freezing accounts, halting withdrawals or experiencing a multi-day outage.
And I push back a little bit on this one because I said, one, I think that this is probably the most unlikely path, a cataclysmic failure in the system, because I think that the Fed won't allow it to happen, as we saw in 2023 when we had those banking failures.

(09:10):
And it doesn't seem to me that many people really paid too much attention to that.
Obviously, if it impacted you directly because you're getting your paycheck from one of those banks or, you know, you were one of those fintechs that was banking there.
But I don't think the news really did a great job.
And maybe that's due to the influence of the Fed and the government trying to keep the system propped up.

(09:35):
So with that one, I just wanted to kick it around.
anybody where it's open season guys this morning,
like whatever you guys want to talk about,
but I thought I'd start with this one.
Do you think that there there's going to be this main event that occurs that
really wakes people up?
And again,
we can go any direction with this.
So anybody want me to play the cricket sound or do you guys have some ideas

(10:00):
this morning?
Yeah,
I've got,
I've got an idea,
Bob.
How are you doing brother?
Back to school day in our area.
So busy morning.
Yeah, I think look to Europe.
I mean, Europe right now is in the middle of trying to hide a financial crisis continent-wide.
And there's many nations right now that are really struggling.

(10:23):
Many of the societies are about to erupt.
There's been a lot of civil unrest there.
And in October, they'll be theoretically embedding a CBDC on the continent.
I think that's kind of a big wake up call for people when they start to realize what that is.
I think it's unavoidable that we that we see something coming out of Europe eventually.
Yeah, it's an interesting point. And I think people in the United States specifically are mostly shielded from that news.

(10:49):
So unless you're paying attention, you have friends, family over there.
It really is like, where do you get your news? Right. And so I'm looking at everyday people.
So when I say that, I mean, like, obviously, we have a lot more information, and we get to come on these spaces and talk about these things. And so I think it's a really good place to share ideas and get other perspectives and news.

(11:16):
But the everyday person knows nothing of anything that's going on.
That would be my argument.
But I do appreciate that.
And I think it's valuable for the listener and the panel to think about, yeah, maybe Europe is that place where this does erupt and people start paying more attention.

(11:37):
So thanks for that, Eric.
And Neil, I see your hand.
Go ahead, sir.
Yeah, I tend to agree.
I don't think, at least in the United States, I don't think that we're going to have some, you know, nuclear cataclysmic event that just wakes people up.
Because it's like, we've already been, like, there's, these events are already happening.
Like, when people are focused on just, like, the nominal terms, if they're only viewing their life in these nominal terms,

(12:06):
they just, they're just not seeing those events that are actually happening in real time before their eyes.
So it's just the trick, you know, the task that the challenge is how do you just get people to take the glasses off, just stop looking at nominal the world through these nominal terms and actually look at the real value that's inside the dollars, that's inside the monetary objects.

(12:33):
objects it's like i i think once like whether it's a simple meme of like the median house price
you know like in dollars right next to bitcoin or like any any of those little those are really
effective tools that just like flipping that switch at like ah yeah the the number go up in
dollars but that's not actually good the the bitcoin price go down like that's actually

(12:58):
that's the thing that is real.
So it's just like, I don't know, I don't think anything's going to just wake everybody up.
Yeah, thanks for that.
Pubby, go ahead, sir.
Yeah, and like you was alluding to a little bit earlier,
the U.S. obviously, the advantage of having the U.S. dollars,

(13:21):
we're the last to feel a lot of this stuff.
180 currencies tied to the dollar.
A couple of things, I think people are waking up to inflation, just normies, to understanding what the debasement of the currency is really all about.
And I can see them starting to say, OK, what else is out there that I can store some of my value in?

(13:42):
I think they're waking up to that point of Bitcoin.
Also, the sense of control that we've seen from our brothers and sisters in the UK especially, the sense of control that the governments are putting on, it will come to a point where I think people are going to want an outlet of where and how to spend their money.

(14:03):
They're already trying to tell you you're going to have these 15-minute cities of where you can go.
I do think people are going to see it's like where can you spend your money?
What can it be spent upon?
And people are sort of laughing
But in Canada
They're literally going to fine people $25,000
For going for a hike
Or fishing or boating

(14:24):
And what started as
They had a fear of wildfires
There was just an interview that came out
And the lady says
We just don't have the resources
If someone breaks a leg
To send them out there
Because there could be a wildfire
And people are eating this up
Or buying it I guess
And so I'm looking at this control
People say, well, they'll never tell you what to spend and where to spend it.

(14:48):
And when you see the truck drivers getting bank accounts shut down, restaurants being told don't serve them coffee or breakfast, and their accounts being shut down, I think that is a very real threat here in the West especially.
And I don't know if there's a cataclysmic event because our lifeblood is consumerism here.

(15:08):
They've got to keep the money rolling somehow.
But I think the trickle effect of all of this will get more and more people to say what are some alternatives Yeah really good I see a couple more hands I want to let everybody contribute Go ahead B
Yeah, I think the big tipping point will be when we see the market really, really falling, whether it be NASDAQ, Dow, S&P 500 and Bitcoin continuing to rise.

(15:39):
a lot of normieville will wake up and be like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa wait a minute and i also find
it real funny how the fed's supposedly biggest one of the biggest mandate is fighting inflation
and they're looking to you know ease rates here i don't i don't see the economy in a downturn

(16:04):
And we're at all-time highs.
I mean, we're bumping up against it in the Normieville market bill.
And Trump keeps wanting them to reduce the Fed funds rate.
But how does that help people on the lowest level?
You know, they're going to feel the inflation because it's coming.
I mean, it's here.
It comes every day.

(16:24):
But it's very surreptitious or sneaky.
and it's not getting, it's not so sneaky anymore when you go to the grocery stores and buy some
steak for heaven's sake. It's a really good point. It's the second one that ChatGPT brought up as far
as things that would make people, you know, the everyday person start paying attention. Eric,

(16:49):
I see your answer. What say you? Yeah, Neil brings up a good point that we're kind of shielded from
this stuff here. And I think that there's two mechanisms to awaken the American people to
Bitcoin. And I think Europe fits in there. Europe is by continent. Europe has the lowest Bitcoin
participation in the world. So I think that they start buying, it pumps the price up. And then we

(17:11):
see Americans start seeing the price up that creates more activity. But I do want to bring
something up that the last speaker just brought up. I brought up a comparison between Q2 2008 and
Q2 2025. And if you believe these numbers, it's a bullish market. I don't believe three of these
five major metrics or six major metrics. Housing inventory in today, 2.6 million homes, 08, 5

(17:38):
million. Oh my gosh, hold on a second. My dog is eating something here. GDP growth last quarter,
3%, which we know was primarily led by front-running tariffs in 2008. It was 1.1%. I think those are
comparable in reality. Unemployment, 4.2 right now, 5.3 then. I think that we are probably around

(18:01):
6% or 7% considering anyone driving an Uber is considered a full-time employee right now. So I
think those numbers are probably the same. Inflation today, 2.7, 08, 4.9. I think we're
probably at least around 4.9 in real inflation. Fed funds rates are two and a half times higher.
Mortgage rates are half a percentage higher. And we are unchanged in the S&P over Q2,

(18:25):
and we're down 2.7 back then. So I think the last speaker is dead on. I think that there is
something that could erupt here, but those numbers are so comparable. If you believe
the inflation, unemployment, and GDP, probably not concerned at all. I don't believe any three
of those numbers. So I don't believe any government numbers. So a hundred percent zero. Yeah.

(18:47):
Yeah. And I want, yeah, they go ahead. I'm sorry. I want to bring this back to everyday people,
right? I don't think like, so for us, we objectively look at those numbers and say,
yeah, they're completely false. They're what the government wants you to believe. And to some degree,
I think business leaders will make decisions on that, large institutions.

(19:08):
But for the most part, like people, that information that gets pushed out doesn't really hit people unless they're hearing it from the mainstream media.
And whatever the mainstream media narrative is around those numbers is what people tend to believe.
So if we look at it from like everyday people, I kind of want to bring this back to that because I think we need to come up with something maybe a little more clever to pounce on some of these things.

(19:34):
And, you know, I think back to the stories that my dad told me about the 1970s when inflation really was an issue and people began to realize it.
And there was this pin that they pushed out that people could wear.
And so obviously different times in the 70s, we didn't have the Internet, but there was this pin that was launched.

(19:58):
It was a campaign launched by then President Gerald Ford in response to rising inflation.
saying whip inflation now. And so it was this wind pin and everybody knew what it was. And it
was short. It was simple. Kind of reminds me of make America great again. These, these simple
things that everybody would identify with in order to really capture, I guess, what I would say,

(20:26):
the lizard brain people along with all the other thinking people. And I just wonder, like, when,
when does that happen? You know, we kind of talked about like, is it an event? Is it,
is it offshore? Is it in the United States? I think maybe something like that could happen.
But I do think that there's still this narrative controlled by corporations, probably the government

(20:52):
and, you know, directly from mainstream media that still captures the attention of a lot of people.
And so this is just too complicated, sorry to say, but I think your average person who's in the rat race, on the hamster wheel is not paying attention.
They don't care about CPI.

(21:13):
They don't care whether it's true or not.
They don't care about it.
They need something simple to latch on to.
And so I'll go back to this MAGA movement.
I think my personal feeling is Trump is a marketing genius, whether you like him or not.
And it does get me thinking back to this wind pin that my dad was telling me about that everybody was wearing back in the 70s.

(21:37):
So I'll pause there, and I think I see Neil's hand.
Yeah, so when Eric was talking about the statistical comparisons, it just got me thinking.
I was like, well, what's another statistical category that actually might wake the normal person up?

(21:57):
And it's like, I don't know, maybe when like birth rates literally bottom out and we actually hit zero and it just bang.
Like, I don't know, maybe that's something real enough that a normal person like would actually feel.
And like, I don't know, maybe take a second look or question like this, like something's off, you know, like it just takes that one question where you say you see kind of like the illusion falling apart and you just like, wait a second.

(22:25):
And then that gets you going down the rabbit hole. So just throwing that out there, maybe the birth rate hitting could be one of those wake up calls.
Yeah, maybe there's people with other thoughts, but I'll push back on that one a little bit just because I do think it's an important metric, but people don't know the significance.
Right. Like, I mean, we have people throwing dildos on WNBA courts. I don't think that encourages the birth rate to go up.

(22:49):
Also, we have, I don't think people realize the implications and younger people most specifically are, you know, I think they are looking at it saying, well, no, no kidding, the birth rates low or zero or negative.
I can't afford to have kids.
And so I really do think it comes back to jumping on this visible cost of daily life in some way.

(23:16):
But I don't know.
I'm curious to hear others thoughts.
So go ahead, anybody else who wants to jump in on this one.
Well, yeah, I bring up those stats from Q2 2008 because Q3 2008 was not a good quarter.
And that was a huge wake-up call for a lot of people.
Another comparison that comes out, insider dumping on the stock market is higher now than it was in 2008.

(23:38):
Warren Buffett has 10x the amount of cash, or excuse me, three times the amount on a percentage basis in his portfolio.
Back then he was 10%.
Now he's 34% cash.
He's definitely an indicator of contrarian front running.
On the other hand, the biggest signal for me was the other day when they came out and said that 63% of the S&P 500 companies met or beat their earnings.

(24:01):
So I looked back at Q2 2008.
That number was 65%.
So 65% right before the GFC of the S&P 500 met or beat their earnings expectations the quarter before.
All these signals are in there.
And I think that Americans are really docile when it comes to a lot of financial stuff.
We have almost no financial literacy programs that are worth a crap in this country.

(24:25):
Might as well be.
Guys, hold on.
Eric, your dog is hungry.
This is great.
No, the kids are out of the house now.
So they're like, someone has to play with me.
No, it's all good.
One thing I was going to say about Warren Buffett is I think his big, you know, I think a lot of people will.
look at that and say, man, his strategy is there because he's worried about things that are going

(24:53):
on. But I would just say that he's waiting for probably a good deal, right? He's watching all
these overpriced PE ratios on the S&P. He's looking at all these different companies that are
so far out of, you know, where anybody would want to make an entry point and just saying,

(25:13):
I'm going to get out of some of this stuff because it's way overpriced.
People are going to overpay for it.
And I'm going to look for opportunities if there is some sort of meltdown or catastrophic
event.
So I don't know.
He's like Scrooge McDuck on his gold.
Just hanging out.
Oh, he's going to be snapping up AI companies when there's a dip.

(25:36):
No question about it.
I think that that's what he's sitting there waiting to pounce on.
But he also is a good contrarian indicator of the market itself with three times the amount of cash holdings.
I think that's a warning sign for a sophisticated investor.
But the average person in this country is just looking at the price of hamburger and steak, chicken.
I haven't seen a decline in any of that stuff at the grocery store, despite what the government tells us.

(25:57):
I just haven't seen it.
Gas prices started to tick down recently, but they're talking about like, you know,
we just kind of go on this leveled pyramid all the time that levels down. Each new administration
lowers expectations of a president. When I moved to Texas in 2020, gas was $1.77. We're hearing how
cheap it is now at $2.89. So every four years, we get lowered expectations and a higher bar on

(26:21):
inflation that we tolerate and move forward with. Not to mention the fact that this administration's
plans will cost $15.5 to $21 trillion to implement. So you're looking at massive money printing
coming in the future per the administration's plans.
That doesn't mean they'll get it all approved, but all the signs are set up there for for
something moving forward that is really impactful that should be really good for Bitcoin.

(26:47):
Yeah, I agree.
Anybody else have any other thoughts on how we reach everyday people, the normal person,
not the people in this room?
I think most of the people here, if you're new, welcome.
We talk about this stuff every day.
at 10 a.m. Eastern, but anybody else have any other thoughts on this topic related to,

(27:10):
and it looks like we're going to get Nate up here, but on this topic of when everyday people are
going to finally stop and wake up and take a look at what's actually going on. Pain, exclusion,
envy, all of those things. So let's go to Nate. He is up here and I see your hands here.

(27:32):
Hey, can you hear me?
Loud in here.
Cool.
Before I get to the everyday kind of pain that people are feeling,
I just want to push back and say that Warren Buffett has never invested in technology in its nascent stage.
He's always waited until it's way too fucking late,

(27:55):
and then he's taken a big chunk of whatever he's invested into.
So he waits until it's already a sure thing.
I would not see him invest in an AI anytime soon if he's still alive when he finally decides to do it.
And you could check me on that.
Like, I just double-checked it myself.
I think it was, what, IBM?

(28:16):
He waited until 2011.
VeriSign, he waited until 2012.
Amazon, he waited until 2019.
Apple, he waited until 2016.
He's always late to the party.
But that's because he makes sure it's a sure thing.
As far as Main Street inflation hitting people, I think today's big topic of conversation is meat, beef especially.

(28:44):
And I think this is going to push people to, rather than kind of doom scroll or whatever.
I mean, you can find that shit if you want to, but most people are going to go back to the old ways.
You're going to get your cheaper cuts of meat.
You're going to start seeing people doing awful.
There's YouTube sites or pages where you can see depression era cooking and things like that.

(29:10):
I mean, people are just going to go back to the like you're going to go back to what fits your budget.
And if Snap and Wick are not going to give you the crap anymore so you can spend your money on weed and going on cruises and all this other bullshit, you're going to have to cut back.
You're going to have to learn to make rice and beans and chicken and keep it fucking simple.

(29:31):
You can buy a $5 chicken that's the size of a house at Costco or Sam's, buy a bag of onions, celery, and carrots, and you're still under $15.
And you can feed the family for three days.
So, like, people have to change their priorities.
You've got to make it work.
You just have to.
And I think it might, hopefully, drive people to eating more things that they need rather than things that they want.

(29:57):
Yeah, I really like those points.
Pubby, I think I see your hand come up again.
Let's hear from you.
Yeah, just like everyone knows those everyday people, it's got to be that max.
You got to be smacked in the face.
They really just need to feel some pain.
And I think we're starting to see that about, you know, you're talking about this one time mass, you know, sort of black salon event.

(30:17):
But they're starting to see the pain.
And I'm sure everyone's feet has seen what's going on.
lost you dude
sort of a frivolous trip I don need you know oh wait am I back Not sure if you can hear me Okay good Yeah yeah

(30:39):
And so those are the things.
Maybe instead of like the two vacations,
you take one.
More people stay local.
You cut back on going out to eat.
You're going to see all that
before the real pain sets in and says,
what's wrong with the currency?
They know the inflation is just killing them,
but it's going to take them a while to understand, well, where else can I go?

(31:01):
This is about everyday people.
Like I said, everyone that's in these spaces, they understand what's going on.
But, yeah, it's interesting to me, and this is even after COVID,
just people like convenience, they like going out, they like to be –
but when you start to see that take a hit, that, to me, is the canary in the coal mine.
Well, Vegas is twofold, right?

(31:21):
Because they started overcharging and charging you, like nickel and diming you every which way from Sunday
when people just used to go get a free buffet and then they would blow away too much money at the
tables or the slots or whatever and like things were affordable like you could go there they
incentivized you to go there and have fun and do the thing and just come show up you'll pay like

(31:42):
35 50 bucks for a room and then blow everything at the tables but they had that they had to tweak
it and corporatize it and all this other nonsense it's not part of the recipe in the first place
right so yeah vegas has got problems aside from the economy itself i agree i think trends are
changing people don't have the money to gamble kind of like what you alluded to uh also people

(32:06):
don't drink as much younger people are not drinking alcohol so there's you know the revenue
is the nature of gambling has changed the nature of gambling has changed itself when you see
robin hood when you see people going on meme coins and doge and all this other garbage
there's another outlet for it and vegas ain't it anymore i got it on my phone

(32:27):
i i don't have to go i go out and kick and i watch those streamers and guess what they're
getting big payouts because who's sponsoring them the site owners have one of the largest
online casinos in the world on the web period so that's where that's where vegas is these days
for the kids like the younger generation is not going to vegas because they have it on their phone

(32:51):
There's no reason. And they do it every day.
Yeah, I don't disagree. I think it has moved online. And I think that's a trend, right? Like, this will continue.
I wonder what, though, is going through the minds of, again, everyday people when they see, you know, and we've talked about this a million times, but it's like, I have this inability to purchase a home.

(33:23):
It's too expensive.
Or, you know, maybe they look at things and say, like, shrinkflation is a true thing.
Maybe maybe there's a campaign that's run on social media where people are like, hey, remember when a bag of chips was actually full or, you know, people just begin to notice.

(33:43):
So I don't know. I guess I'm curious if you guys have other thoughts on this as we've kicked around a bunch of the topics.
Did want to say good morning to AC and I see Coleman's hand. Go ahead.
moment. I think a good person to bring up, if we can get him in the room to talk about this,
is our friend Robert for Infra. And he has a pretty interesting chart. I'll try and throw

(34:07):
up in the nest. But he talks about depression among the youth. And youth, I mean, like people
aged from 20 to 30, 20 to 40, is greater than what it was during the Great Depression. And
I'm sure if you start breaking down some of those numbers and you start doing some deep diving,
you'll see that it's, you know, there's definitely two types of economies going on right now.

(34:30):
You have the upper class that are just kind of humming along.
It's not really affecting them.
And then you have everybody else where they're really feeling the pain.
And so I think everyone's kind of on the same page where, you know, we can sense that something's going on.
But when you're able to go ahead and fire people that are in charge of pointing out the statistics

(34:51):
because the statistics that are being presented don't fit your agenda.
You know, again, we all know the numbers are manipulated,
but I think it's just kind of becoming evident that it's a little bit more serious
than maybe what people are trying to admit.
And I think if you look at the housing sector specifically,

(35:11):
there's never been a time in history where there's been more sellers than there are buyers.
It's even worse than the great financial crisis.
of 2008. So if I was going to guess,
I guess we're probably about six to 12 months before we start really seeing
cracks under the hood. But again, I think

(35:33):
Robert has some really good points on his
if we can get him up there.
Pubby, I think I see your hand. Go ahead.
Yeah, just to dovetail on that, this generation,
and I really do feel for them.
Some are going to university to get a degree,

(35:53):
and the degree they started four years ago is now,
it's obviated by AI.
There's entire career fields now that are just being blown away because of AI.
And they're coming out and they're underemployed,
not making as much as they thought they would.
They look at housing prices and they feel hopeless there.

(36:14):
And it's just like this perfect storm of everything.
And this is why you see you see a mayor running now for New York like a straight up communist.
It's we have a generation that feels they have no way ahead.
And if there's someone telling me, well, it's not your fault.
And truly, in some ways, it isn't. You know, there's a lot of factors there.

(36:35):
It's not your fault. So we're just going to tax the hell out of everybody.
Yeah. To them, it's like, well, yeah, I got I can't find a decent job.
I'm priced out of the housing system. What am I going to?
I got student loans.
We're not going to wait till I'm 35 to buy my first house and start a family.
So, yeah, these are all underlying factors that we got to deal with at the moment.

(36:58):
Yeah, I agree.
And I think, you know, a lot of, you know, we were talking about Vegas and trips and all those things.
How are most of those things financed?
I mean, sure, some people are able to save, especially the people in this room.
You're saving in Bitcoin.
You're purchasing power has gone up, obviously.
But for the everyday person who we're talking about this morning, I think a lot of people finance those things. And so as you see the rates sustained higher, but the wage gap increase, right, because you have prices going up and you have wages not keeping pace.

(37:35):
I think this was kind of Coleman's point in bringing up Robert, is that these things over a sustained amount of time do impact people.
And at some point, the spending is going to stop and the economy can't withstand that.
And so I think Trump sees that. And that's why he's pushing the Fed to stimulate by decreasing interest rates.

(37:57):
But it'll be interesting to see. Nate, I see your hand again, sir. Go ahead.
now just to
clarify this real quick
the post I put in the nest
I didn't search crime rates
or anything about the surrounding areas
this is just homes
three bedroom
two bathroom houses
under 250k
and they're in places like El Paso

(38:18):
some in the major cities
but you're going to find them around
they exist
for under 250,000 right
which is
that's an affordable price
in this market
if the house is good
some are new
some are modular
whatever
One of the things that I keep seeing in these, like, Doomer posts about the price of things and food deserts and things like that and the ending of SNAP being abused,

(38:42):
and what we've seen in this recent kind of news cycle, is that people are not discussing the optionality of moving.
tribes and people in the past when food got scarce or the herds moved you had to relocate
you had to go where the food was because there was no food in your location or the weather changed

(39:08):
or something natural disasters occurred you have to move if it's unsustainable to live in new york
city because middle-class price ranges or like income ranges are in like to be considered middle
class in new york city you need to make three hundred thousand dollars okay you just need to

(39:28):
that's part of the project if you if you make three hundred thousand dollars in south dakota
you're living really well you're well above middle class you're i mean you're you're like at 80k 100k
to be in middle class in that range in the middle Midwest.
So people, it doesn't even enter their mind as a possibility

(39:51):
because they've either lived there their whole lives
or they think they can't buy an $80 bus ticket
and find a job on the web or whatever,
make cooking burgers for the same amount of money
relatively to what they're making in their current position
and then spending their expenses,
like exceed the amount that they would literally make

(40:11):
somewhere else so like it's just not part of their their their their thought process and um
it's it's a staggering like realization i've come to with that so they what do you what do you think
because and this isn't really a pushback because i see exactly what you're saying and it was
interesting is those who i said been in the workforce well over 30 years the whole thing

(40:35):
of the digital nomad it i mean this is a pretty relatively new phenomena that you can relocate
most places. And I get that. But there's also the fact right now there are many people,
myself included in this, that with it only five years ago, they put an anchor in the ground at a
sub-3% mortgage. And my God, you're going to need an act of Congress to get people to leave that

(40:59):
house. What's the use of them moving to the Midwest if they take a 50% hit on their salary?
oh, by the way, that same house that was much cheaper, you're still paying your same mortgage because the rates have tripled.
I didn't know what your thoughts were on that.
I wouldn't push somebody in that situation and be like, well, you should move.
They're above the average when it comes to situations.

(41:22):
I'm talking about the people who are renting and have had their rent increase 30% over the past five years.
The kind of people that see another, and they're told by their landlords they're going to see another increase next year.
those and then either they've got student loans and all these other bills that they've piled onto
themselves but they can't manage it so what do you need to do in that situation you need to lower

(41:42):
your cost of living period you need to start eating roasted chicken from the grocery store for five
dollars buying fruits and vegetables and something like learning how to cook learning how to manage
a pantry the economy of the household and not just buying your food from door dash every fucking day
Yeah, I do think that there are luxuries that people enjoy that are going to have to go away.

(42:10):
I wonder, though, like, you know, I was kind of going down the debt route and I wonder what people think about the fact that, you know, if if debt is no longer really viable for people to for all this spending, I think Nate's right.
You're going to have to decrease your costs. But if this happens where you have credit card APRs going higher and higher and you have approvals tighten because there's too many delinquencies or people are just not paying it back and filing for bankruptcy.

(42:46):
and then you also probably have eventually auto loans are the defaults rise and lenders start
requiring bigger down payments like does that have a bigger impact and then the other thing I wanted
to ask you guys or actually tell you I was in the car with a Canadian yesterday and he's trying

(43:09):
he's been here in the United States for three years and he was telling me all kinds of things
like the five major banks in Toronto, which is their capital center, financial capital center.
They all announced over the last week or so that they're phasing out work from home. So,

(43:32):
you know, the people who moved out to the suburbs, because didn't care how far away they were from
work now are going to have to shift back to five days a week early next year at their office.
And so, you know, what impact does that have on people's expense load as they go closer to city

(43:53):
centers? And maybe Canada is an outlier, but you can see this trend coming back because
commercial real estate has gotten crushed in the United States based on people's ability to
start working from home over the last five years. And so, I don't know, all these things play
together. And I just wonder, yeah, if anybody else has any thoughts on either of these topics about

(44:16):
credit crunch, or just, you know, kind of the flows of people and where they have to live in
order to work. Neil, I think I see your hand, but I can play crickets as well.
Yeah, I just had this thought, kind of like, the flip side of all the pain, you know, like the pain will definitely wake people up, but I think we can leverage that too.

(44:43):
like as Bitcoiners, this grassroots thing, like not necessarily, you know, promoting it, like
shouting it off the rooftops, but the, the people in your lives, you know, like being that good
steward of like Bitcoin, like, like as you, as they're pulling their hair out and you're just
living this calm, stress-free life, like that contrast, you know, like that's something that

(45:08):
can help wake the normal person up too.
You know, so it's like trying to figure out kind of how you want to be
and move throughout your life and, you know, make yourself like thinking very digital.
Like we talked about like the security and, you know, your own privacy and protection

(45:30):
and that type of thing.
But like how do you want to advocate it for the people that are closest to you?
like and having a strategy and having like being visible at some sense like showing people that
like this is the way like if you want to avoid all that pain like do what i do like i think that type of thing can also help the normal person out Yeah I really like you bringing it back

(45:56):
to the everyday person.
And Pubby, I did see you come off mute there for a second,
but I want to maybe give,
as we're getting towards the end of the hour here,
did want to give you guys the outcome
with my discussion with ChatGPT.
it said to time your messaging. So speak to the pain points as they surface, not before. So I think

(46:22):
a lot of people are turned off. And I'm sure we've all experienced this, where we go tell people
like, hey, this is gonna happen. And it's like, we're trying to be fortune tellers. And people
are like, you're nuts. You're the sky is falling type person. And I don't want to have anything to
do with you. You sound completely crazy, unhinged. I'm just a guy in the rat race,

(46:45):
just trying to live my life. And here you are telling me the sky is falling. So people don't
like the Henny Penny approach. And then the other thing it came back with is be the bridge.
Most people will try Bitcoin because someone they trust recommends it. So to Neil's point,
are we building trust with the people around us and looking for opportunities to share with people

(47:08):
what we've experienced, not tell them what they're going to experience.
So I'll pause there.
Wanted to see if anybody had any thoughts on that.
Have we been taking the right approach or have we been just trying to ram it down people's
throats?
So go ahead.
Yeah, I mean, I've been successful in two ways.
With my best friend, I basically bullied him into buying some by calling him retarded and

(47:34):
telling him that, you know, he's an idiot, basically just over and over again, badgering him.
And then he, and I was transparent, like kind of what the price was doing and how I'm going to live
a wonderful life and he's going to be poor forever. So that worked with him. And then my mother,

(47:57):
you know i pestered her uh in a different way but just a little more nice just like trying to
explain it away and she still doesn't get it but she at least you know bought some some uh etf
and then anybody else that i've tried to talk to uh outside of those two people closest to me

(48:19):
basically um has has sloughed it off or they're buying quietly without you know talking to me
about it. And so I see it to me, it's like it's very much the same as trying to convert somebody
to a religion like we're never happy until they're, you know, at our level. But no, you're not going to

(48:43):
convince anybody by trying to shove it down their throat. Basically, you have to just be a good
example. That is the best thing you can do is to just live a good life, be a good example, and
people will notice and then they will ask you. So I'm all for the propaganda. You know, I want to
call a Bitcoin. Michael Saylor should really start funding like a propaganda outlet and really doing

(49:11):
sending his AI images on a on a exponential scale. But, you know, other than that, you just got to
live a good life. Yeah, I love those comments. I do want to go to the hands. We have
looks like three hands. I'm going to try to do it in order. BFP, then Jimmy, then Nate.
Yeah, my real quick thought comes from earlier. And I think it was Neil Flesher and

(49:40):
Breedlove on a podcast talking about it. And if I'm getting it right, it's the language we're using.
a lot of times
I'm included in this
you tell people you gotta buy Bitcoin
to do this
you gotta buy Bitcoin
to get out of this
I think the language should be

(50:02):
you should be trading your currency
in
from fiat to Bitcoin
there's no buying
you're really not buying anything
you're just trading a crappy currency
to a good currency
so I think the language we use
and always, you know, meeting them where they're at

(50:22):
and talking to them when they want to talk about it
because I don't, you know, trying to push it on people never works.
They're just like, who is this weirdo?
So wearing a T-shirt is, you know, I wear Bitcoin T-shirts to the gym
and once in a while someone says something to me
and then we have a conversation, but it's nothing pushy.

(50:44):
It's more explanatory than anything.
Go ahead, Jimmy, and welcome to the stage from Mexico.
Hey, good morning.
I think you were on the space last night with me, or I was on one with you,
but they were talking about orange peeling people and how to do it quickly.
I've discovered something, and this comes from years of teaching.

(51:05):
I've taught all kinds of things, climbing, skiing, kayaking, flying, diving,
all types of extreme sports and things.
And I'll tell you one thing.
Nobody is learning anything unless they're asking questions.
That's how you know they're listening.
And if people aren't asking questions of you, you're shoving it down their throat and they're not going to get it.
But so what I tried to do is back up and quit trying to tell people all this stuff.

(51:26):
And what is going to get them to ask questions?
So I came up with a simple thing that actually works with Mexicans, El Salvadorians, Americans, retirees, workers, all kinds of people.
And it's simply I just say Bitcoin is money for the people by the people run by code or run by math.
And that's it.
And if they don't ask me after that, what do I mean?

(51:48):
And then I get excited about it and go, this is the first time in humanity that we have money for the people that's run by the people that nobody can control.
That wakes up a lot of people.
A lot of people like sovereignty.
A lot of people don't trust their state, their government.
And when you tell them it's not owned by a government, not controlled by a government or a company, that really is exciting to them.

(52:09):
And then they start going down the rabbit hole.
So my point is, instead of trying to get them down the rabbit hole or literally load them up with everything, look how long it took you to learn what you've learned.
I've been in this for years, and there's still tons to learn.
And I study it all day long.
I'm retired, so I can do that.
But the point is, you're not going to apply to every single person.
But what you can do is get them asking questions.

(52:30):
And if you get them, whatever intrigues them, whatever applies to them.
And I just find that people are really fascinated by the fact that this is the first time in all of human history that there's actually a money that can be used anywhere in the world.
And, you know, it's run by nothing but people running it.
And when they understand that, that gets them intrigued.
And I have found that I've got workers using it.

(52:52):
I've got in Mexico, I've got El Salvadorans that were buying.
They thought it was Bukele's money.
The day that they made El Salvador took away the law saying you have to use Bitcoin.
I talked to three El Salvadorians that wanted to buy Bitcoin now because then they understood it wasn't Bukele's money.
Up until then, they thought it was actually Bukele controlling Bitcoin.
So this is how misinformation people get.

(53:13):
So I look at it, I back up because I get into the weeds just like anybody.
It's really hard not to talk about mining, cold storage, unconfiscatable.
It goes on and on and on, right?
You go on for years with this stuff.
That doesn't teach anybody anything.
What teaches them is when they ask, well, what do you mean?
And then you say, well, this and then they're intrigued.
And they say, well, how do I use it or what good is it for me?

(53:34):
And then you have to apply.
Well, is it a payment system for them?
Is it a hodling system?
Is it a retiree?
Is it a young person, old person?
You know, but that's they're asking questions.
As soon as they start asking questions, you've got them.
If they're not asking questions, I jokingly say, you know, if they're trying to get in the life raft to help them, if they're swimming away from it, I let them go.
I go with the low hanging fruit.
I don't beat people up.
All my friends and all my acquaintances that own Bitcoin will tell you he never lectured me on it.

(54:01):
I had to ask him because I intrigued them, but I don't push.
Never push. It doesn't work.
Anyway, that's it.
It's a really great point.
If they're not asking questions, you're shoving it down their throat.
Nate, go ahead, sir.
Yeah, intellectual curiosity is a requirement for me to continue a conversation with somebody on Bitcoin.
If they don't show it or they're like, they just pull a smug, older style investor with me, then I just, cool.

(54:27):
All right.
And then I go about my day.
There's no point in continuing it.
I wanted to continue the conversation about lending a little bit.
I put two Grok summaries in the nest.
And you can always make sure that at the end of any citation, it gives you, there's two little links, at least two, that it puts out where you can go and see where it got the sources for the information.

(54:51):
I highly recommend you check some of these out.
One of these is the buy now, pay later kind of situation we've seen growing at a really fast rate.
It's going to reach hundreds of billions of dollars globally.
But what we're seeing is that it's consistently being abused by the younger generation.

(55:17):
Users defaults have risen by 37 percent, with 26 percent of users managing multiple loans simultaneously.
Twenty four, twenty twenty four survey noted 43 percent of users missed at least one payment, particularly Gen Z and millennials.
Fifty one percent of Americans believe it encourages overborrowing.

(55:38):
73% of its users are 18 to 35 with 48% reporting income instability. So like, this is just a simple
mismanagement of your budget, like straight up. People do not, they don't even think about it.
They don't think about their income and their outflows. It's not just the buy now, pay later

(56:03):
system they're over leveraging on their cars their subprime loan rate is 6.6 on defaults that's the
highest in 15 years since the great financial crisis so what we're talking about is people who
were educated in how to get through college and look for a high-paying job in the humanities

(56:25):
somewhere i don't know where it exists probably in college um and not have any functional real world
skills like home economics in in high school used to teach you how to budget your kitchen
your utilities the things that made the house run like basic fundamental needs that a someone

(56:47):
graduating high school could use going into the world they don't teach that shit anymore
they don't teach anything close to it so this like there's some basic fundamental just real
world experience that is not being taught at school level anymore everybody was told you need
to go to college they never bothered teaching them anything else like you need to go to college that's

(57:11):
it and i'm being facetious here of course but the reality is nobody learned anything and everybody
that went to college is now completely in debt and has no exit um so they just they're going to
borrow forever and never pay it back. Right.
Cause it falls off your debt in seven years anyway. So whatever,

(57:33):
just get a new credit card. Right.
Yeah, that's a good point. I do see on one screen here,
we have that ominous floating hand by order.
So I wanted to say good morning. Maybe you put it down, sir,
but would love to hear from you this morning before we wrap up the show.

(57:59):
I had to do it, guys.
Well, I think this was a good topic.
I hope you guys like talking about everyday people.
And I really do appreciate everybody who listens in each day, 10 a.m. Eastern, everybody who comes up on the stage.
You guys are awesome.
It's fun to chat about this stuff, to learn from each other, understand diverse perspectives.

(58:20):
And if you're a listener, please do follow everybody up here on stage.
We'll do this all again tomorrow at 10 a.m. Eastern and hopefully pick another good topic that we can kick around.
Nate, I see you come off mute.
Real quick, just real quick.
Just anybody who might be thinking I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass.
Less than half of all students coming out of California since 2013 have not met mathematical standardized testing qualifications.

(58:47):
That is true for the entire nation, by the way.
less than half meet or exceed mathematical standardized testing.
You can look it up.
Yeah, so if you're a rich, wealthy Bitcoiner and you have the time,
maybe you want to volunteer in your local school system,

(59:08):
do your part, as Neil was talking about, with people around you, local communities.
Start seeing where you can partner with the school system to either change the curriculum
or hold home ec classes or something like that.
I think there's things that we can all be doing.
Probably need to have an entire space on that.
Maybe it'd be interesting, maybe not.
But I do think there are people out there

(59:30):
doing good things in their communities.
And so we need to look for opportunities,
especially if you have your time freed up
because of this bright orange future
that you evidently got on quite early.
So thanks again, everybody.
That's a wrap for this Tuesday.
We'll do it again tomorrow.
Like I said, 10 a.m. Eastern.
Please do join us.

(59:50):
We love talking about Bitcoin and related topics with you.
And yeah, it was fun.
So thanks so much, guys.
Want to wish you a wonderful rest of your Tuesday.
And remember, don't shitcoin.

(01:00:12):
It's just bad for you.
People that use fiat currency as a store of value, we call them, we call them, we call them.

(01:00:47):
Thank you.