Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Thank you.
(00:30):
All right. Good morning, everybody. Happy Friday. We're back.
And thank you for joining Bitcoin Veteran Spaces number 254, where we talk about Bitcoin.
My name is Bob Van Kirk. I'll be your host this morning.
And I'm joined by a nice group of gentlemen, it looks like.
(00:54):
Hopefully we can get some ladies up here, but a great group of guys.
Thanks for joining us this morning.
If you're listening, please do share the space.
If you enjoy the content, want to get people plugged in.
But let's take a look at the time chain before we get too far into it.
Today is Friday, August 29th, and we are Bitcoin block height number 912,254,
(01:23):
with the Bitcoin price sitting just above $109,000, which means sats are on sale.
You can pick them up at the rate of 918 sats per US dollar.
A couple of announcements, guys, before we get to say good morning to this fine panel.
And again, if you'd like to come up, it is open mic day.
(01:45):
Everything goes, anything goes, except for shit coins.
So hit that microphone.
Love to have you up here.
If you haven't spoken before, they'll be extra nice to you.
But a couple of announcements.
Bitcoin Veterans is having their second annual summit on November 10th and 11th in beautiful Nashville, Tennessee.
Day one is going to be a conference.
(02:05):
Come and learn.
Hang out with smart people in the space on a variety of topics.
Day two will be range day.
So you'll get the opportunity to fire some firearms safely with your friends.
And we're looking for people who want to get involved.
So visit BitcoinVeterans.org forward slash Summit 2025.
(02:26):
Get plugged in.
Get involved.
If you want to propose a speaker topic, a panel topic, volunteer or just attend.
Again, BitcoinVeterans.org forward slash Summit 2025.
All right, guys, one more announcement.
Sadly, we won't be hosting the space on Monday.
(02:46):
I know I always say we do this every weekday, 10 a.m. Eastern.
but we're giving everybody a break mainly texas toast i would do it but he he has said
under no circumstances is he working on labor day so um with that it's labor day i'm basically a
communist so if you work on labor day um you're you're not a true american yes it's the one day
(03:08):
you get good morning to you sir uh how are you this morning doing all right um sold a bunch of
shit coins uh being iron so that felt good and uh yeah i'm gonna stack some more sats
beautiful neil good morning how are you i'm doing good bob uh speaking tonight down at the
(03:34):
alamo lab so i'm pretty pumped up for that nice yeah that's great um good friday night for you
captain trips good morning sir welcome back
No crickets this morning, but I would play for him.
(03:55):
Yeah, I know.
Pubby, how are you, sir?
Doing all right.
Doing okay.
The future looks bright.
That's why we got to wear shades, my friend.
Let's keep stacking.
Keep stacking.
We're doing good.
Yes, sir.
Shane, thanks for hopping on this morning.
(04:16):
I know you're a busy guy.
How are you?
Morning, Bob. Morning, everybody. Good to hear everybody, see everybody.
Yeah, I've been traveling a ton, just getting at it in the mining industry out here.
So, yeah, good to be back. I'm with Texas Toast.
I'm going to soak up as much free cuckoox on Monday as possible.
Just enjoy the socialism a little bit and then get back at it.
(04:39):
Very good. Coleman, thanks for coming up. How are you doing, sir?
Hey, good morning, everybody. It's a pleasure to be up here.
I am doing well, no complaints on my end
Three more days till season opener
There you go, and last but not least
BFP, how are you this morning?
You got any birds for us in the background or no?
(05:01):
It's overcast, I can see birds
But they're not making any noise
Good morning, thanks for having me
Yes, spies everywhere
The birds, just kidding
Alright, well let's
let's, let's hop into it. Uh, wondering, uh, if you guys have, this is open mic day. So wondering
(05:22):
if you guys have anything in particular on your mind, uh, we can kind of take the conversation
wherever you want. Just hoping to have a little bit of fun and, um, yeah, let's see. I did see
some interesting things happening, um, with a, um, a thousand developers lost their secrets to an
(05:45):
AI powered thief and interesting things on the AI front.
I think there's good and bad there.
I know mining goblin wants to talk about vibe coding.
I don't see him with us yet this morning, but yeah,
I'm interested to see if we can carry on a conversation about AI and Bitcoin,
(06:05):
or if you guys want to take it somewhere else,
does anybody have anything they've been working on vibe coding? Yeah.
How have you guys been interfacing with AI?
So for me, it's not like I don't interface with AI, aside from asking Grok stupid questions and getting stupid answers.
(06:31):
But I do think it's a threat.
And I had this conversation last night with a municipal bond salesman.
He gets a fee off of shilling municipal bonds and repackaging them and doing all this.
And it just got me thinking, you know, I brought up Bitcoin and started talking about it.
(06:52):
And it is a AI and Bitcoin.
I think a large reason these financial advisors don't want to look at Bitcoin in a serious way is because it's a threat to their model.
Specifically, it's a threat to their job specifically.
specifically why, you know, pay a 3% fee or do any of this, this crap. And I asked him what his
(07:13):
returns were. And he was like, Oh, it's like 4%. It's like, Oh, I would feel like shit. Um, you
know, if I was in charge of somebody else's money and was losing them real purchasing power,
that's where it's like, I don't get it. Um, but I think AI and Bitcoin, especially combined,
And, you know, a lot of these these areas, these finance capitals, finance bros that are really just scraping fees are going to be gone within 10 years, especially if they don't start putting Bitcoin in their clients portfolios or kind of trying to get creative and integrating it into whatever systems they do.
(07:52):
So, yeah, still early. I love having these conversations because I'm just I just feel like they don't get it.
and makes me feel early.
Yeah, it's interesting.
BFP, you have your hand up.
Go ahead, sir.
I used to be a financial advisor for a short period of time,
and it's comical to me because it's all about AUMs,
(08:16):
and now all you have to do is self-custody Bitcoin,
and you remove so much risk,
you're blowing the doors off of any financial advisor
who's stuck in TradFire legacy system.
And it's like the unraveling of an old...
(08:36):
It's like the Roman Empire falling,
but nobody saw it for like 500 years.
So I hope it doesn't take 500 years,
and I doubt it will.
But the monetary systems are shifting
right beneath everyone's feet
and financial advisors.
This is the Roman Empire rising.
You have it back.
Well, yeah, exactly. There you go. I like your framing better.
(09:01):
But they're paid not to see what we're talking about, and that's through AUM's Assets Under Management.
So they're never going to see it as long as they keep paying them not to see it.
I completely agree. Hey, Rico, thanks for coming up. How are you today?
Good morning. Thank you. Excellent.
(09:22):
And it's a good topic to talk about because I think a lot of people are looking at their jobs and wondering how much longer they're going to have that comfortable job.
If it's just like, you know, signing off some notary or giving somebody advice.
AI jobs are literally displacing white collar jobs as we see it.
Like blue collar jobs have all been exported to China or somewhere else that's cheaper for labor.
(09:45):
And, you know, and then you've got white service jobs where you have a lot of people with diplomas and different degrees that they're quote unquote specialists at.
And, you know, even the health and medical field is going to be is going to get hit hard.
And so the idea is life's supposed to get easier.
But if you're, you know, managing systems that are really typically don't need to be managed and will be automated, what are you going to do with your life?
(10:08):
And so I think it comes to self-responsibility.
And you see a lot of vibe, quote unquote, vibe coding and people who are trying to leverage this.
And then there's people who don't want to look at this because they see the time is ticking.
It's almost up.
the Overton window is closing for their comfortable lifestyle.
So I just think it's a good time to apply your skills or learn new skills while
(10:30):
we're in the big transition.
Yeah.
It's just thinking about for, for me,
it's just thinking about what are humans meant to do and trying to,
cause I'm doing this with my own mother.
It's like, she's a bookkeeper at a business. And, you know, I told her,
(10:50):
I was like, like we can, I can get it done with, uh, with software for 20% of the cost
that we're paying you to do this the old school way, just crunching numbers.
It's like, you know, so you're not meant to, you're doing a job that is not meant to be
done by humans anymore.
Um, and it's a harsh reality, but it's like, you know, you, you can find purpose in doing
(11:14):
things that humans are really meant to do.
We're not meant to just sit and crunch numbers all day.
That's like a total machine experience.
So I'm just for like embracing the human side of stuff, getting more creative, artistic, finding stuff you're really passionate about, interacting with other people.
You know, that's what it is to be human.
(11:37):
So, yeah, AI is kind of waking everybody up and Bitcoin at the same time.
So it's like a dual prong.
yeah i keep thinking bring on you know with all these negative uh stories that come out there's
ai has still yet to really go through the true fud period uh like bitcoin has so that'll be
(11:59):
interesting you guys remember the um the little photo box things that would be in the in the
parking lot that's like the shopping center you would pull up and you would drop off your film
and then you'd come back i don't know a couple days later whatever and pick up your photos
(12:20):
yeah it's kind of they had that at the uh at the supermarket too and the reason is is because you
know believe it or not kids like there was no like you know phone phone with a camera digital
camera built in like in your pocket and you had to actually use cameras that exposed film with a
(12:40):
shutter to light and then you had to have people develop that film it like this is just hitting me
like all this stuff y'all are talking about is the same kind of changes and people just don't
want to believe that the way we do things is going to change but i mean if especially for the older
(13:00):
generation they should remember so many instances of this ah do you guys remember newspapers i know
they're not totally gone but do you remember i remember i had a brief period of time i had a
paper boy job when i was young and i had to actually like hop in the back of the car and mom
would drive around and i would you know first fold up all the newspapers and then i would like toss
(13:24):
them out the back of the car on people's driveways do you guys realize how much the world has changed
just in our lifetimes like it is bonkers and like people and i think it's just a fear response it's
just this thing because change means uncertainty. Change means things are going to really be
(13:45):
different and that terrifies people and they cling on to their current view of things and are
defiant and in denial about coming change because it's scary. And that's just, I think, a natural
natural human thing but my god it's like so strong these days and it's changing so fast
(14:07):
it is and you're right i mean it is good to kind of zoom out and think about those things
just in our short lifetimes um you know i know everybody has different uh there's a lot of
different generations in this space and that's awesome uh but i think we can all see a lot of
those things that have changed i think pubby had his hand up next we'll go to him and then i totally
(14:30):
cut him off i totally interrupted hey that's all right let's go to our tc shane after that so go
ahead oh yeah yeah it looking back there a there a quote from uh gandhi and ernie he looking at the machinery coming from from britain and he says unfortunately what we need here in India isn mass production We need production by the masses
(14:51):
And he had a point like, what the fuck?
We got all these people that were farmers.
Now we can't – because it puts everyone out of work.
And this is back just to get us to the AI question regarding anyone that's pushing these bonds.
But I can get you 3 point whatever percent, 4 percent.
and they don't see AI coming for them.
(15:13):
And it started, you know, now mind you, this is well before
when you had to pick individual stocks, but then they got into mutual funds.
Now they have lifecycle funds where you just fire and forget,
automatically shifts your exposure between stocks and bonds.
And I'm sitting here, what am I going to do if I go sit down with someone
and I'll say, okay, what can you do for me?
What kind of returns do you get?
(15:34):
And they can tell me it's some great number of 20%, 30%.
And I said, well, look, man, I've done nothing.
I bought Bitcoin, and for five years, I'm up 859%.
I don't know what the fuck else you guys are going to do for me.
And this is the nature of AI.
You'll be able to optimize.
I mean, if you don't want full exposure to Bitcoin, but AI can go through things faster, anyone else, and optimize what your returns will be.
(16:00):
And this is just scared the hell out of everyone.
And it's just like lawyers.
Something happens to me, man.
I get arrested.
You think I'm taking a court-appointed attorney?
Fuck no.
I said, you know what?
I'll grok that shit out because I know it's going to be better than anything else I get.
So I land a plane there.
AI is coming.
And, you know, it's up to us individually on how we apply it to our lives.
(16:22):
Well, and the main argument these guys have is, you know, you get to talking about this and, like, is the safety aspect of these bonds.
It's like it's safe.
It's a risk profile.
It's all, you know, they start getting into their head with all this stuff, which these things do exist, but their paradigm is so off where that's that's the part that they don't realize, you know, and they're starting to understand the volatility is good kind of thing.
(16:49):
But the safety aspect and that really Bitcoin is one of the least risky things you can own once once that they cross that mental chasm, I think things can start to change.
But until you start to realize until or until you realize that, you know, Bitcoin is actually a safe bet in the long run.
(17:11):
Safe and effective.
We could go there, too. But Shane, go ahead, sir.
It's funny. TC brought up the change.
I know some of us are a little older, got some wiser years and gray hairs and all that kind of stuff.
And, you know, looking at this, I was thinking about it the other day.
(17:35):
The one constant thing in our lives and in this world is change.
And it's weird that we haven't built a culture to embrace it.
And then instead of fighting it, try to flow with it.
It's one of those things I kind of channel my inner hippie when I hear about, you know, these things and, you know, people fighting, you know, the progression of technology and time.
(17:56):
But it's also really awesome to watch, especially in this community, is, you know, really the forebearers of some of the greatest technology that man has ever had to see what they're doing with it and what they're building.
Um, there's so many in this space that crave a life in our building lives that are outside of cities that are very much in line with what I think our grandparents and great grandparents did at the turn of the 1900s, right?
(18:26):
They were putting together farms.
They were raising, you know, livestock of sorts.
They were homeschooling their children.
They were, you know, extremely proficient with firearms and defense.
It was a much simpler, easier, slower time.
I don't know how the rest of the world goes there, but as I see and watch Bitcoiners continue to pioneer this space and really push the envelope,
(18:57):
I see more and more that we're just adding technology to old ways and the mass effect of communication and the network effect to be able to share those old ways with each other while preserving the value of our lives and what we've just strived to earn and then capture in Bitcoin.
(19:20):
I don't know.
For me, it's not scary.
It's one of those things where I see it and I just go, wow, yeah.
Now, you know what, being from the 1900s, you know, we were cavemen and we were barely scratching the surface of technology.
But now that so much is coming out and so much is leaking from, you know, government sources and things like that.
And there's people pushing the idea of, you know, I don't want to say infinite energy, but, you know, machines that can pull energy out of ether,
(19:49):
magnetics, you know, in terms of propulsion and everything else that's happening.
This is one of those spaces that I marvel at.
And it's not that I wish away the years and days, but I'm excited to see what Bitcoiners, especially the Bitcoin veteran space, is going to do in terms of helping people live the lives that they've always dreamed about and then some that they can't even fathom.
(20:15):
That's exciting to me.
And I think AI is definitely part of that.
you know, there's going to be so much that comes from our ability to transact with open AI,
you know, the AI that's actually not going to censor, the AI that's not going to, you know,
throttle or be coded. Like those are, they're going to get left in the dust. And there's a great
(20:36):
series out there. I'm trying to think of, Guy Swan did it. And he talks about how the most open AI,
the most utilitarian AI is going to win out because at the end of the day,
people don't want suppressed artificial intelligence.
They want, you know, anything and everything that they can get their hands on.
(20:58):
And I think that's, you know, that's just kind of the modality of truth.
Truth wants to be free. Information wants to be free. And, you know, this is,
this is the space that's doing it.
We do need based AI for sure.
Want to get to some more hands and really great comments.
Gene, Neil, I think you were next. Go ahead.
yeah uh the ai stuff's interesting and what i'm always always i'm anchoring my thoughts on ai is
(21:23):
okay well what is it not and you know we can call it intelligence and we can have lots of different
uh definitions for what that even means but i mean ai is not rational like it's not pulling
anything out of the world that it's not abstracting principles that we didn't already put there like
We are the one, like, we're the rational creature that collates and abstracts principles from reality.
(21:49):
And we put that into the AI and then we can use it extremely powerfully.
But, like, you know, so what does that mean for me?
It's like, okay, well, make sure, you know, that whatever value you're going to create, make sure you're leveraging that, you know, your rationality.
Make sure you're actually abstracting principles and using those principles.
and then like that makes you immune to like losing your like ai is not a threat to you if that's if
(22:15):
that's the value you're creating you know the people that ai is going to destroy are all the
stupid middlemen bureaucratic administrators that aren't actually doing anything like the the admin
person they didn't create the form they didn't create the protocol they didn't you know come up
with anything they're just literally executing you know an ordered syntax um and charging you
(22:37):
fees for it so it's just like you know those people are going to get wrecked because they're
not needed like the ai will do that you know we train the ai we tell it what to do we make the
connections for it and it just executes faster than we can even like comprehend and it seems like
spooky and magical but it's like that the people make ai like powerful we're the ones that actually
(23:00):
feed it the power so it's like i don't know i i'm excited by ai because i understand like what it
does, what it can be, how it can be leveraged, but I'm not scared by it because it's just a tool at
the end of the day that a human has to use. And, uh, on a side note about the financial advisors,
like that's actually what really got me started down, you know, this, this path of even like,
(23:21):
what is money? Cause I asked my stupid little broker guy, like some basic, basic questions and
he provided retarded answers. And I was like, Oh shit, I have to take, I can't, I can't outsource
this anymore. Like he's retarded. He's not, he's not describing or explaining, you know, the reality
that I see before my eyes. So I got to level up and take that responsibility. So I actually owe him
(23:44):
a great, I'm indebted to him, eternally grateful for being so retarded that it activated me and got
me actually caring about the important stuff in life. But thanks. Yeah, it's really good stuff.
And there's a lot of threads I could pull on from that. One of them, I do want to get to Rico,
But one of them I wanted to bring up is related to the economy and, you know, what you brought up, Neil, was this threat to jobs in a variety of spaces.
(24:14):
And one thing I picked out of the Jackson Hole meeting last week when, you know, all markets rose based on Powell's comments is this, you know, we've a lot of in Bitcoin spaces, we've been talking about this a long time that the Fed is going to come off their 2% inflation target rate.
And I think based on the comments last week and their worry about employment, they are already coming off that number.
(24:45):
And so I think we know what that all means, right?
There's higher prices. Assets will continue to be buoyed.
Things like Bitcoin will continue to go up, which we all know.
But I think, you know, we're really starting to see it in real time.
And it's interesting how AI plays a role in some of this.
(25:09):
And with that, we'll go to Rico.
Oh, I love this comment.
This conversation is great.
It's more productive than a lot of conversations I've been hearing in spaces.
I do want to say that, like, this is like going back to TC, what he's talking about.
Like, there was a time when we had like VHS and people didn't have cell phones and we didn't have the Internet.
So and then the unlocking of the Internet unlocks all of this information.
(25:33):
So I guess like what I'm trying to get to is that over the time, the only thing we really have on this earth is the time and the decisions you make every day.
And I know people are asking these big, big questions about what I'm going to do.
And they're scared and the change. It's like you have to slowly adapt.
You don't have to, you know, quit your job or all of a sudden spend all your hours like trying to figure out what to do with AI.
(25:56):
it's because I'm dealing with this right now I'm on a simbathical year so I have to figure out what
I'm doing for a year um to prepare myself for the the next decade two decades three decades
and so I guess I'm trying to say this is proof of work like for me it's about going back to the
drawing board I'm clearing the these ideas and just looking at what am I good at uh and what can
(26:19):
I bring to the market and it I don't I work more in the social like I'm a teacher so I'm and I
live at a farm. So I'm really good at connecting people. But I don't necessarily use AI for
any kind of vibe coding. I just use it to search questions. It's like a super search engine. And so
(26:40):
I would just say that for a lot of people, you're going to see people scared of the change,
and you just have to adapt. I mean, think about how much the world has changed and how much you
Are you happy with the decisions you made that brought you to this point in the advancement of technology?
Or did you, in a sense, look back and say, I could have done a little bit more.
(27:02):
I could have applied myself more.
So I guess I would just say is a good time to go back to the drawing board if you're asking yourself those questions and say, what am I good at?
What can I produce or services that I can offer?
And then maybe also going to your physical being and saying, am I good with myself?
Am I stable?
(27:23):
psychologically. Am I physically prepared for the changes if there's going to be, you know,
a shortage of food or whatever? I'm just saying that there's a big change happening and it's all
we have is proof of work. So I'll leave it at that. Yeah, I love that. Hey, Wade, thanks for coming up.
What's on your mind? Morning, Bob. Just in the context of talking about, you know, where we are
(27:44):
with the AI revolution, I'm not really that 100%, you know, convinced about the efficacy or efficiency
of the AI models and whatnot right now.
But one of the major concerns I have
is the production and energy and capacity bottlenecks,
which we're going to have.
If we're going to make all of these investments,
it's going to require significant amounts of uranium,
(28:06):
rare earth materials, and labor
that we simply do not have right now.
I mean, the Navy is paying welders $150 an hour
to put their submarines together right now.
So if we try to 2x or 10x our energy consumption, how are we going to build these nuclear facilities?
(28:28):
How are we going to build these natural gas plants to get any and all of this material off the ground?
There's serious bottlenecks.
There's serious labor shortages all the way around.
And these types of investments are going to require materials from abroad.
And I don't know how we're going to get there without a significant inflationary event to make the acquisitions required for these investments.
(28:54):
Well, that's exactly the point.
It kind of goes along with in the spirit of Labor Day.
You know, $150 an hour, that's probably actually the good wage and the average wage for that kind of work.
Maybe it's even higher.
And so people are starting to realize that
They don't want to get paid this shit dollar
For shit work
(29:15):
And so you know
They're going to have to print a bunch of money
To get the things they want
And they're going to pay people
You know
What is the living wage at the time
The problem is Is that six months later You hit that inflation spike And then your goods are twice as expensive again But my concern is that doesn get us
(29:38):
You could raise the wage to $1,000 an hour,
and that doesn't get you any more qualified welders quick enough.
This is the exact same thing that Rheinmetall ran into
with their artillery shell production.
They ended up raising the rate for what an artillery shell costs
from $800 a shell to $8,000 a shell,
and they're not getting, they're not increasing their production capacity.
(30:00):
Yeah, right.
There's definitely a lag and it requires even more, you know,
you have to build the infrastructure to get this kind of like qualified worker available too.
So then that's more money that needs to go into these training facilities and everything else,
trade schools, all this kind of stuff to get things built in this country again.
So I would expect to see a large influx if they're serious about doing this.
(30:25):
And I think just the market is I think Americans are serious about doing this kind of work and bringing production back to this country.
And, you know, that's going to require the money printer.
Yeah, I'm just saying that it's likely it looks like if we're going to do it and we're going to try and do it right,
it's going to be a five or 10 year inflationary cycle of reshoring labor and production capacity.
(30:48):
This isn't something you do in a year or two.
Yeah, this is the signal to the market, right?
If we're paying these guys, you know, $150 or $1,000 an hour to be welders on, you know, whatever or electricians because we just don't have the supply of these blue-collar workers that we need, this is the signal to the market that we need more blue-collar workers.
(31:10):
And if that's, you know, what entices them to become a electrician or a welder or whatever, you know, blue-collar job that's out there, then that's definitely what we need.
And that's coming.
Mike Rowe talks about this extensively, and I think he's absolutely on the money.
The amount of blue-collar workers that we need, there are things that are not going to be going away with AI.
(31:32):
And there's tons and tons and tons of great jobs out there.
And there's developing, I would say, let's just put it this way.
I happen to see the request for proposals and for quotes and things like that in the energy space.
and the plans that the U.S. government has to support exactly what we're talking about is that.
(31:57):
There is a ton of money that they are going to print out of thin air and they are going to throw at energy creation and everything that we need to get that done.
So it's already started.
If you're out there and you're looking for work, this is a great opportunity, especially if you need the skills or are, you know, kind of already in those markets.
(32:19):
Like these are trade jobs that are available and that are going to be extremely coveted and highly valuable for anybody that can pull this off and start to switch their mindset from white collar to blue collar.
Yeah, and I do think that it also pertains to some of us that have kids, right?
Like you're, you gotta be evaluating sec, you know, the post-secondary education and
(32:43):
the value of that with, uh, just learning how to prompt and get good information and
understanding, um, how to think about these things, um, I think is, is going to be huge
and it's hard.
Like there's a transition period.
And I think people are going to have, some people are going to succeed and some people
(33:03):
are going to make the mistake of paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for an education.
that really is completely unnecessary.
And hopefully they're not going into massive amounts of debt to do it.
Hey, I saw Povey's hand, and so I was going to jump in and interrupt.
But this time I'm going to defer.
Go ahead, Povey.
(33:24):
This is great stuff.
You know, one of the questions that we sometimes need to ask and forget to ask is, all right, so what?
So then what?
So what is the use of this automation we've had over the years?
What is the use of this AI?
As someone brought up earlier, what about this time that you have on your hands?
(33:44):
And I can tell you just being in Bitcoin, before you know it and you stack long enough, it's like, oh, goddammit, my retirement sort of plan I thought was going to be 15 years away is now 12 years ahead of schedule.
And so what?
And you've got these think tanks that have seen this coming down the road for years.
I mean, by years, I mean decades, the 60s.
(34:07):
And they knew basically what they assumed was citizens that their idle hands will be work of the devil.
And you flood the workforce.
You double the tax base and you flood the workforce with women.
But they realized, oh, goddammit, our population is going to be out of control.
And this is what you're going to find.
We're going to have a bunch of useless eaters.
And that's what many are.
(34:27):
And this is what many can be.
You say, OK, we're going to take care of all your needs.
What are you going to do all day?
And you'll say, well, goddammit, I'm a gamer.
and people got to ask themselves a personal question.
Some are religious.
Some will say, you know what, I'm going to get more spiritual.
I want to spend more time with family.
Others, yeah, they're going to exist to do things that may seem mindless.
(34:49):
So everyone, I would just encourage in and of yourself, say, all right,
this stuff is coming down.
Automation kicked a lot of blue-collar jobs down the road.
AI, there's going to be a lot of surprises to law firms,
to doctors who thought they had this job.
And this is a serious thing.
That's great that you freed all this stuff and you created this beautiful thing.
(35:12):
But what does that actually mean then?
And then what?
And so what?
So now, damn, you're 45.
And you're thinking, I got half a life to go.
All my basic needs are met.
Who am I?
Those are some serious damn questions.
I go through that honestly on a daily basis.
Who am I?
What am I going to do that's valuable to myself, my family, my community?
(35:35):
Those are sort of tough things.
So I think it's great that you open up a rabbit hole with what AI is going to do and change, but then you've got to ask yourself, and then what?
Goddamn meaning of life.
Got to do something.
For real, though, it's a heavy-duty thing.
(35:56):
And a lot of people maybe set themselves on a path at a very young age.
You know, certainly I'd say the education system is set up this way to kind of put people on a certain trajectory from a pretty young age when, I don't know, my life experience tells me whatever the hell I thought in my early 20s is nothing like what I thought in my 30s and is nothing like what I think today.
(36:24):
and so you have to actually
maybe develop some dynamicism
and I think maybe that's where the AI thing
comes into play for a whole bunch of people
is like you can through this technology
educate yourself in an entirely new way
(36:44):
you can pick a new specialty
a new focus, a new skill set
A meal, your mic is live, a skill set.
You can basically onboard yourself to that in a faster time frame and in a more productive context than ever before.
(37:07):
because now instead of having to go pursue an educational path to learn something,
then go into, you know, maybe the job market and hopefully find a job
and then maybe find an apprenticeship and so on and so on.
Years go by before you're kind of like on your feet.
I see many cases out there where people are in just literal, like, I mean, look,
(37:32):
Jack put out that BitChat app that he literally coded up in a weekend.
You get an idea and AI not only allows you maybe to figure out how you would go about doing that, but actually execute on doing it.
And so it's one of these things. That's kind of what the vibe coding terminology really means is like there's a path to actually manifesting ideas that is real that we just never had before.
(38:05):
So I would say just even looking at like, you know, technology a decade ago versus today, there are massive opportunities and there's kind of a divide out there right now between those that embrace this AI technology and recognize it as the accelerant that it is.
(38:26):
and there's the people that are kind of maybe standing on the sideline and just
just waiting and and and you know maybe are fearful or maybe are hesitant or maybe
assume it's not for them i think it's one of these things it's kind of like
if you go back 10 or 15 years and you said look at this search engine technology that google came
(38:47):
out with that's that's interesting but that's just for internet nerds i don't really need that
and then look at what's happened in all industries in regards to marketing and presence on the web
and how that turns into kind of a ubiquitous facet of things.
So I see it that way.
It's just here comes these next set of powerful tools.
(39:10):
Whatever you do, it will accelerate and it offers you a really – it's like a magic trick.
you can basically shortcut a lot of the time that it would have taken to educate yourself on a certain subject matter,
strategize about how to move forward or do something, and then actually execute on it.
(39:32):
And there's literally people doing all of that in a weekend and manifesting something that didn't exist before.
It's incredibly powerful.
Yeah, I think you're going to see an explosion, and we already are, an explosion of software, right?
because a lot of people have a lot of great ideas.
But in order to innovate, you have to have capital.
(39:54):
You have to have time.
You have to have all these things.
And vibe coding really allows normal people
who don't know how to code anything to create.
And I think this speed up of failing fast
is going to lead to lots of innovations.
(40:16):
but I think one thing we haven't really touched on is some of the negatives.
Rico, go ahead.
Yeah.
What TC is talking about makes me think of like a creative Renaissance.
And I think a lot of people are so worried that they're going to be,
they're not going to be successful.
So I've been dealing with like having everything kind of organized.
(40:36):
I like things organized and clean and that's just how I am,
but it's going to get messy.
There's going to be anarchy.
It doesn't have to succeed.
you know you might get shut off of Google Play Store
because you know maybe they don't like you
but that's kind of like this switch over
so you don't have to have all the answers
I think that a lot of people around you
are doing the same thing
(40:57):
they're all lost in translation
so it's a good time to be fucking lost
it's okay to be a mess
I got something Bob for the dark side
which is basically
you know, the AI has like very seamlessly replaced search in so many contexts. I mean,
(41:20):
quite literally, you go to Google, and the top results now are the AI generated results,
not even the ones that people are paying to advertise, right? And most people don't even
pay really attention to that. I was bitching and moaning a decade ago about why don't people like
pay more attention to the sponsored search results versus the organic ones below them?
(41:40):
And now it's like you got AI ones elbowing out the sponsored results.
So people don't realize it, but this technology has been integrated like everywhere.
So now you're kind of deferring your source of truth or your expertise to individual models all over the place.
(42:01):
We see it all over X.
People are just constantly asking Grok to like, is this true?
And there's a real dangerous, casual attitude and naive attitude about what are these AIs actually.
And the reality check for most normies about how frequently they're just outright wrong, how frequently they just are not providing you with facts.
(42:29):
And it's one of the biggest flaws is that they will always give you an answer.
Have you ever seen an AI say, gee, I don't know, or I'm not sure?
Like, they don't do that.
So just check yourself, because a real human being would run into situations like that and say, wait, gee, I'm not really sure.
(42:53):
I need to look into that more, or that's a complex topic.
There's not a real simple answer right now.
These things don't do that.
What they do is they search their little models and they come up with what they assess to be the best answer to give back.
And that's not necessarily always based on what's the most truthful or accurate.
(43:14):
So I think we're going into a world here rapidly where a ton of people are even more misinformed, despite the fact they have all this insane world of information at their fingertips.
Yeah, I mean, when we stopped teaching people how to think critically, that I think is where what you're saying is true, where people will come in and basically they're seeking truth from an AI and that's problematic.
(43:44):
Pubby, see your hand again. Go ahead.
Yeah, there's a few writers out there.
This is a French guy, Jacques Loul, who wrote a book called The Technological Society.
Another one I would recommend is Neil Postman.
And at its crux, they, they, why they extol the value of technological change and what we're getting is they're the ones that actually asked the question, what is being taken away?
(44:08):
What is taken away?
Because everything that gives something is taken away.
And one of the stories they tell was this old king and of course it sort of a parable that had a bunch of wise men and saying you know during the time of peace and he says I going to have a competition on who can come up with the best invention
And I'll give everyone a month to do this.
(44:28):
Well, they came back, a bunch of cool things,
but the one that was the most intriguing was this guy that invented this thing,
and he called it writing.
And he says, you know, King, everything that you say,
Everything that you, all of your laws, we can now write down and it's permanent.
Everyone can see it.
Okay.
Anywhere you go, you can see this.
(44:50):
And he had thought about it for a moment and said, I see the value.
I see this value in what you're saying.
However, when it's down on this paper, it's not lost from our minds.
Right now, everyone has my laws written on their heart and memorized.
And this is what you're seeing when it comes to AI.
(45:11):
They had a they just had a they were there measuring the the AI searches.
And as soon as school stopped, it dropped to near zero for the summer months.
And they're actually just what they're doing is the kids now just trust the eye.
Yeah, fuck it. You know what?
AI, what's this? You get people that are driving like literally they'll follow their GPS and drive into a body of water because the GPS says this is the road.
(45:34):
There's no like you're talking about the critical thinking that's going.
but the mind changes and that was always the human experience you're losing a human experience of
you make a decision on the facts as you've learned them you find out that you know what my decision
was wrong because i didn't listen to this person i didn't research this and that's that is a human
experience and that's why you look at people that are we consider wise are elders look at them
(45:58):
because they've they've been through it they started out young they made a stupid mistake
they learned from it and that's the thing that gets taken away here that's the dark side of all
this technology is what are we losing as humans yeah really good stuff and it it reminds me uh
you know driving into a lake it reminds me of uh people uh who get hit by cars as they're just
(46:23):
looking staring at their phone and uh trying to cross the street it's crazy to me uh neil i see
your hand go ahead yeah i was just gonna say uh hey grok what's in my pocket you know like i don't
It's like you really don't have to get too confounded by this mystic magic thing.
Like if you are focused and you're directing your human potential, your energy at the real world, looking outside, looking at problems, like that's what you feed the AI.
(46:57):
You go find out what's in the box.
You feed that to the AI and then you use that.
Like that's how you leverage it to help you become a more powerful human agent.
So, you know, like the hottest question.
Yeah, good stuff.
No, I appreciate it.
And this has been fun, guys.
Wanted to say good morning to Petro.
(47:19):
We do have to have him come back up.
Yes.
Dedicate a show to the project he's been working on.
I'm curious to hear an update.
but don't have a ton of time left in the show.
So thanks for coming up and would love to hear your contributions to the topic, sir.
(47:41):
But I got a hold of a world renowned.
He is he's a guy that studies the ethics is an ethicist for psychology,
for ethical applications of psychological treatments.
(48:02):
The way I ran into this guy is because the first person that I was,
I don't know if you guys know Noah Kahn.
I think that's his name.
He's one of the Bitcoin doctors.
He's been around the space.
He's a really cool guy.
Anyways, we got to chatting about the project,
and he put me in contact with a friend of his
that has been doing work with TMS, transmagnetic stimulation.
(48:26):
And so that's kind of a dicey topic in the world of clinical applications.
And so the fact that I'm working with two guys that are already working at the bleeding edge of what's ethically correct
and that they are world experts gives me a lot of hope for them putting me in the right path to get this thing done correctly.
So for those of you that do not know, I'm working on an AI standalone system that would be basically air-gapped from the Internet
(48:53):
that would allow for therapy of veterans at home
without having to have access to the VA
because the VA sucks.
I know I work there.
So that's a short run of what's going on.
Yeah, I think the first question
or the first prompt to the AI is,
(49:15):
please tell me what I want to hear.
No, I'm just kidding.
But I do think that that's a problem for some people.
And in your application in particular, I think I'm sure you can set the parameters so that the AI is actually asking valuable questions.
One thing that I've learned and maybe just, you know, as we kind of head towards the end of the show,
(49:38):
I wonder if people up here on stage or maybe someone in the audience that wants to come up has learned how to prompt better.
So I think we've kind of touched on it here during the show that search engines are kind of dead or, you know, if you do use Google, you're getting the AI anyway.
But a lot of people just simply use the AIs that are out there to ask questions or to use it as a search engine, because that's what people have been used to doing for 20 plus years, 25 years.
(50:13):
And so I wonder if anybody has any tools or suggestions.
I could come up with a couple on how to prompt better so that you get better results from the AI.
Does anybody want to chime in on that?
Yeah, but I think Rico wants something to say because he's been slamming his head.
No, no, no.
I would rather hear the response.
(50:34):
It's nothing.
I'm just going to rebuttal the same thing in the comments.
Okay.
So a quick response on that is prompt engineering is dead.
Context engineering is the new thing.
So what do I mean by that? Prompt engineering has to do with the way that you tell the LLM more information about what you want so that it has more more stickiness as to what you're trying to get out of it.
(51:00):
So it needs mental guardrails.
Like that's really the way, the best way to put it.
Because if you don't, what basically an LLM is doing is it has the corpus of knowledge of all of the probabilistic words that are in that vector database.
When I say a vector database, this is really important to try to understand.
It's arrows in some space in the computer, right?
(51:25):
Like so imagine a bunch of arrows in a big knotted mess.
But the arrows, the distance and the length and the direction of the arrows has to do with the meaning of the word.
And so you would imagine that the word German shepherd and Australian shepherd, those ideas would have very, very similar vectors.
Because A, they share the word shepherd and B, they share the idea of dog.
(51:49):
So that's a quick explanation as to what you're traversing when you're asking an LLM for something.
You're basically asking it to give you the next right arrow.
in that series of arrows of responses.
It really doesn't think about it like words.
And so what you want to do is you want to give it like primed information
(52:11):
that leads it to the right responses before you ask the question.
So one thing you can do is tell it, behave like an expert
or behave like a group of experts.
a very interesting thing to also do is give me the critique of such and such,
especially if they're a podcaster or a well-written person.
(52:33):
The more material that they have written, the more that you're going to get that person's voice.
So you can imagine that a Lynn Alden is very prolific in her writing,
and so the LLMs have Lynn pretty freaking nailed down.
So you can ask for Lynn to critique your essay, right?
(52:54):
Or you can ask for Lynn to say, for example, have an argument with, I don't know,
Saif Adina Moose about a particular topic.
And then you get very interesting responses.
So those are ways that you can begin to think about what's happening.
Now, caveat to all this is with the advent of thinking models,
(53:17):
you're going to get a shit ton of noise if you prompt engineer.
And if you don't know how you prompt engineer,
because they behave completely different than non-thinking models.
And so you have to be very,
very careful about what you're asking to what thing.
And so it really,
it's a tough question when you actually get technically down into it,
(53:37):
because every LLM has its own thing it's good at and its own thing it's good
that makes the responses completely different.
Yeah, good stuff.
And one thing I train people on actually, especially banks,
(53:58):
is a lot of what you said, which is first you've got to give it context.
Then you've got to tell it its role.
So, you know, it could be one person or you can call it an expert in a certain area.
And then what I like to really do is ask it to interview me.
So interview me and give me five questions, one at a time, so that you can gain more perspective, more context on what I'm actually trying to get out of asking you.
(54:26):
And then I give it a task. And so I say, here's what I really want.
And then because it's not descriptive enough in just that initial prompt of context, role, interview, and task, it'll actually come back to me and ask me single questions at a time, up to five, and it will build off of each answer.
(54:49):
And then eventually it gives me a full-length thing and will make suggestions based on its response.
So what you're talking about is agentic workflow?
which is an important different thing, right?
Like you're breaking down the things that you're doing into steps.
Then you get a response from that step and you feed it to the next step.
(55:13):
And so, again, these are things that you have to almost break it down
into like coaches, like, you know, dry board,
and you're doing like the X's and O's and stuff,
and you're like, okay, this is going to go this way,
and then it's going to spit out and go that way.
And really, it sounds funny, but like if you don't do this, you get garbage.
(55:35):
You get absolute garbage.
Like it just hallucinates and starts giving you nonsense.
So very important thing is you have deterministic and non-deterministic tasks.
And the more you go towards a defined, let's say, for example, five-step deterministic plan,
(55:57):
you're going to get a lot better results than if you go non-deterministic.
You know, although there are times when you want a non-deterministic LLM doing things.
And this is one thing I'm going to kind of leave you guys with is
you have to start thinking about an LLM like a CPU and like maybe even a gateway
(56:22):
and maybe even like a router.
and you have to start thinking about virtual machines
and the LLM is like the CPU of the virtual machine
and then the vector database is like the hard drive memory space.
And then you actually have a hard drive space
(56:42):
and then you have to think about,
okay, now what I want to do is I want to put a data lake in my set
so that inside of my data lake,
certain tasks, LLMs, things are accessible. Outside, they are not. And so this really
becomes important in the idea of securing your own materials and your own identity, because like Bob
(57:07):
said, you're asking this thing to interview you. If you're talking to an online one, I have news
for you. It's mapping your psyche. Yeah, really good stuff. And I'm glad to get to this
maybe at the end of the episode, for some people, they're like, hey, I'm a prompt, you know, expert,
and I understand these things. But, you know, for some of us, we just need the how to. So it was fun
(57:31):
today to get into, you know, all the topics around AI and, and Bitcoin. That's, that's kind
of where we went with it. But it's also awesome to get into the nitty gritty a little bit. And so
thankful for each of you guys for coming up and sharing perspective, having the discussion.
And it's always fun.
(57:52):
We do this every weekday, 10 a.m. Eastern, except for we won't be on Monday, taking the day off.
So chill out, go touch some grass, enjoy.
And yeah, I want to wish you guys a great Friday.
And don't forget to check out BitcoinVeterans.org if you need help on your Bitcoin journey.
And also, if you're looking to attend the conference, BitcoinVeterans.org forward slash Summit 2025.
(58:15):
and always remember whatever you do,
do not shit coin.
I don't have anything new guys for the shit coin thing today.
So I just want to disappoint everybody with that.
(58:45):
as a store of value.
We call them we pour.
We call them we pour.
People that use
to see our
currency,
we call them we pour.
Thank you.
(00:30):
All right. Good morning, everybody. Happy Friday. We're back.
And thank you for joining Bitcoin Veteran Spaces number 254, where we talk about Bitcoin.
My name is Bob Van Kirk. I'll be your host this morning.
And I'm joined by a nice group of gentlemen, it looks like.
(00:54):
Hopefully we can get some ladies up here, but a great group of guys.
Thanks for joining us this morning.
If you're listening, please do share the space.
If you enjoy the content, want to get people plugged in.
But let's take a look at the time chain before we get too far into it.
Today is Friday, August 29th, and we are Bitcoin block height number 912,254,
(01:23):
with the Bitcoin price sitting just above $109,000, which means sats are on sale.
You can pick them up at the rate of 918 sats per US dollar.
A couple of announcements, guys, before we get to say good morning to this fine panel.
And again, if you'd like to come up, it is open mic day.
(01:45):
Everything goes, anything goes, except for shit coins.
So hit that microphone.
Love to have you up here.
If you haven't spoken before, they'll be extra nice to you.
But a couple of announcements.
Bitcoin Veterans is having their second annual summit on November 10th and 11th in beautiful Nashville, Tennessee.
Day one is going to be a conference.
(02:05):
Come and learn.
Hang out with smart people in the space on a variety of topics.
Day two will be range day.
So you'll get the opportunity to fire some firearms safely with your friends.
And we're looking for people who want to get involved.
So visit BitcoinVeterans.org forward slash Summit 2025.
(02:26):
Get plugged in.
Get involved.
If you want to propose a speaker topic, a panel topic, volunteer or just attend.
Again, BitcoinVeterans.org forward slash Summit 2025.
All right, guys, one more announcement.
Sadly, we won't be hosting the space on Monday.
(02:46):
I know I always say we do this every weekday, 10 a.m. Eastern.
but we're giving everybody a break mainly texas toast i would do it but he he has said
under no circumstances is he working on labor day so um with that it's labor day i'm basically a
communist so if you work on labor day um you're you're not a true american yes it's the one day
(03:08):
you get good morning to you sir uh how are you this morning doing all right um sold a bunch of
shit coins uh being iron so that felt good and uh yeah i'm gonna stack some more sats
beautiful neil good morning how are you i'm doing good bob uh speaking tonight down at the
(03:34):
alamo lab so i'm pretty pumped up for that nice yeah that's great um good friday night for you
captain trips good morning sir welcome back
No crickets this morning, but I would play for him.
(03:55):
Yeah, I know.
Pubby, how are you, sir?
Doing all right.
Doing okay.
The future looks bright.
That's why we got to wear shades, my friend.
Let's keep stacking.
Keep stacking.
We're doing good.
Yes, sir.
Shane, thanks for hopping on this morning.
(04:16):
I know you're a busy guy.
How are you?
Morning, Bob. Morning, everybody. Good to hear everybody, see everybody.
Yeah, I've been traveling a ton, just getting at it in the mining industry out here.
So, yeah, good to be back. I'm with Texas Toast.
I'm going to soak up as much free cuckoox on Monday as possible.
Just enjoy the socialism a little bit and then get back at it.
(04:39):
Very good. Coleman, thanks for coming up. How are you doing, sir?
Hey, good morning, everybody. It's a pleasure to be up here.
I am doing well, no complaints on my end
Three more days till season opener
There you go, and last but not least
BFP, how are you this morning?
You got any birds for us in the background or no?
(05:01):
It's overcast, I can see birds
But they're not making any noise
Good morning, thanks for having me
Yes, spies everywhere
The birds, just kidding
Alright, well let's
let's, let's hop into it. Uh, wondering, uh, if you guys have, this is open mic day. So wondering
(05:22):
if you guys have anything in particular on your mind, uh, we can kind of take the conversation
wherever you want. Just hoping to have a little bit of fun and, um, yeah, let's see. I did see
some interesting things happening, um, with a, um, a thousand developers lost their secrets to an
(05:45):
AI powered thief and interesting things on the AI front.
I think there's good and bad there.
I know mining goblin wants to talk about vibe coding.
I don't see him with us yet this morning, but yeah,
I'm interested to see if we can carry on a conversation about AI and Bitcoin,
(06:05):
or if you guys want to take it somewhere else,
does anybody have anything they've been working on vibe coding? Yeah.
How have you guys been interfacing with AI?
So for me, it's not like I don't interface with AI, aside from asking Grok stupid questions and getting stupid answers.
(06:31):
But I do think it's a threat.
And I had this conversation last night with a municipal bond salesman.
He gets a fee off of shilling municipal bonds and repackaging them and doing all this.
And it just got me thinking, you know, I brought up Bitcoin and started talking about it.
(06:52):
And it is a AI and Bitcoin.
I think a large reason these financial advisors don't want to look at Bitcoin in a serious way is because it's a threat to their model.
Specifically, it's a threat to their job specifically.
specifically why, you know, pay a 3% fee or do any of this, this crap. And I asked him what his
(07:13):
returns were. And he was like, Oh, it's like 4%. It's like, Oh, I would feel like shit. Um, you
know, if I was in charge of somebody else's money and was losing them real purchasing power,
that's where it's like, I don't get it. Um, but I think AI and Bitcoin, especially combined,
And, you know, a lot of these these areas, these finance capitals, finance bros that are really just scraping fees are going to be gone within 10 years, especially if they don't start putting Bitcoin in their clients portfolios or kind of trying to get creative and integrating it into whatever systems they do.
(07:52):
So, yeah, still early. I love having these conversations because I'm just I just feel like they don't get it.
and makes me feel early.
Yeah, it's interesting.
BFP, you have your hand up.
Go ahead, sir.
I used to be a financial advisor for a short period of time,
and it's comical to me because it's all about AUMs,
(08:16):
and now all you have to do is self-custody Bitcoin,
and you remove so much risk,
you're blowing the doors off of any financial advisor
who's stuck in TradFire legacy system.
And it's like the unraveling of an old...
(08:36):
It's like the Roman Empire falling,
but nobody saw it for like 500 years.
So I hope it doesn't take 500 years,
and I doubt it will.
But the monetary systems are shifting
right beneath everyone's feet
and financial advisors.
This is the Roman Empire rising.
You have it back.
Well, yeah, exactly. There you go. I like your framing better.
(09:01):
But they're paid not to see what we're talking about, and that's through AUM's Assets Under Management.
So they're never going to see it as long as they keep paying them not to see it.
I completely agree. Hey, Rico, thanks for coming up. How are you today?
Good morning. Thank you. Excellent.
(09:22):
And it's a good topic to talk about because I think a lot of people are looking at their jobs and wondering how much longer they're going to have that comfortable job.
If it's just like, you know, signing off some notary or giving somebody advice.
AI jobs are literally displacing white collar jobs as we see it.
Like blue collar jobs have all been exported to China or somewhere else that's cheaper for labor.
(09:45):
And, you know, and then you've got white service jobs where you have a lot of people with diplomas and different degrees that they're quote unquote specialists at.
And, you know, even the health and medical field is going to be is going to get hit hard.
And so the idea is life's supposed to get easier.
But if you're, you know, managing systems that are really typically don't need to be managed and will be automated, what are you going to do with your life?
(10:08):
And so I think it comes to self-responsibility.
And you see a lot of vibe, quote unquote, vibe coding and people who are trying to leverage this.
And then there's people who don't want to look at this because they see the time is ticking.
It's almost up.
the Overton window is closing for their comfortable lifestyle.
So I just think it's a good time to apply your skills or learn new skills while
(10:30):
we're in the big transition.
Yeah.
It's just thinking about for, for me,
it's just thinking about what are humans meant to do and trying to,
cause I'm doing this with my own mother.
It's like, she's a bookkeeper at a business. And, you know, I told her,
(10:50):
I was like, like we can, I can get it done with, uh, with software for 20% of the cost
that we're paying you to do this the old school way, just crunching numbers.
It's like, you know, so you're not meant to, you're doing a job that is not meant to be
done by humans anymore.
Um, and it's a harsh reality, but it's like, you know, you, you can find purpose in doing
(11:14):
things that humans are really meant to do.
We're not meant to just sit and crunch numbers all day.
That's like a total machine experience.
So I'm just for like embracing the human side of stuff, getting more creative, artistic, finding stuff you're really passionate about, interacting with other people.
You know, that's what it is to be human.
(11:37):
So, yeah, AI is kind of waking everybody up and Bitcoin at the same time.
So it's like a dual prong.
yeah i keep thinking bring on you know with all these negative uh stories that come out there's
ai has still yet to really go through the true fud period uh like bitcoin has so that'll be
(11:59):
interesting you guys remember the um the little photo box things that would be in the in the
parking lot that's like the shopping center you would pull up and you would drop off your film
and then you'd come back i don't know a couple days later whatever and pick up your photos
(12:20):
yeah it's kind of they had that at the uh at the supermarket too and the reason is is because you
know believe it or not kids like there was no like you know phone phone with a camera digital
camera built in like in your pocket and you had to actually use cameras that exposed film with a
(12:40):
shutter to light and then you had to have people develop that film it like this is just hitting me
like all this stuff y'all are talking about is the same kind of changes and people just don't
want to believe that the way we do things is going to change but i mean if especially for the older
(13:00):
generation they should remember so many instances of this ah do you guys remember newspapers i know
they're not totally gone but do you remember i remember i had a brief period of time i had a
paper boy job when i was young and i had to actually like hop in the back of the car and mom
would drive around and i would you know first fold up all the newspapers and then i would like toss
(13:24):
them out the back of the car on people's driveways do you guys realize how much the world has changed
just in our lifetimes like it is bonkers and like people and i think it's just a fear response it's
just this thing because change means uncertainty. Change means things are going to really be
(13:45):
different and that terrifies people and they cling on to their current view of things and are
defiant and in denial about coming change because it's scary. And that's just, I think, a natural
natural human thing but my god it's like so strong these days and it's changing so fast
(14:07):
it is and you're right i mean it is good to kind of zoom out and think about those things
just in our short lifetimes um you know i know everybody has different uh there's a lot of
different generations in this space and that's awesome uh but i think we can all see a lot of
those things that have changed i think pubby had his hand up next we'll go to him and then i totally
(14:30):
cut him off i totally interrupted hey that's all right let's go to our tc shane after that so go
ahead oh yeah yeah it looking back there a there a quote from uh gandhi and ernie he looking at the machinery coming from from britain and he says unfortunately what we need here in India isn mass production We need production by the masses
(14:51):
And he had a point like, what the fuck?
We got all these people that were farmers.
Now we can't – because it puts everyone out of work.
And this is back just to get us to the AI question regarding anyone that's pushing these bonds.
But I can get you 3 point whatever percent, 4 percent.
and they don't see AI coming for them.
(15:13):
And it started, you know, now mind you, this is well before
when you had to pick individual stocks, but then they got into mutual funds.
Now they have lifecycle funds where you just fire and forget,
automatically shifts your exposure between stocks and bonds.
And I'm sitting here, what am I going to do if I go sit down with someone
and I'll say, okay, what can you do for me?
What kind of returns do you get?
(15:34):
And they can tell me it's some great number of 20%, 30%.
And I said, well, look, man, I've done nothing.
I bought Bitcoin, and for five years, I'm up 859%.
I don't know what the fuck else you guys are going to do for me.
And this is the nature of AI.
You'll be able to optimize.
I mean, if you don't want full exposure to Bitcoin, but AI can go through things faster, anyone else, and optimize what your returns will be.
(16:00):
And this is just scared the hell out of everyone.
And it's just like lawyers.
Something happens to me, man.
I get arrested.
You think I'm taking a court-appointed attorney?
Fuck no.
I said, you know what?
I'll grok that shit out because I know it's going to be better than anything else I get.
So I land a plane there.
AI is coming.
And, you know, it's up to us individually on how we apply it to our lives.
(16:22):
Well, and the main argument these guys have is, you know, you get to talking about this and, like, is the safety aspect of these bonds.
It's like it's safe.
It's a risk profile.
It's all, you know, they start getting into their head with all this stuff, which these things do exist, but their paradigm is so off where that's that's the part that they don't realize, you know, and they're starting to understand the volatility is good kind of thing.
(16:49):
But the safety aspect and that really Bitcoin is one of the least risky things you can own once once that they cross that mental chasm, I think things can start to change.
But until you start to realize until or until you realize that, you know, Bitcoin is actually a safe bet in the long run.
(17:11):
Safe and effective.
We could go there, too. But Shane, go ahead, sir.
It's funny. TC brought up the change.
I know some of us are a little older, got some wiser years and gray hairs and all that kind of stuff.
And, you know, looking at this, I was thinking about it the other day.
(17:35):
The one constant thing in our lives and in this world is change.
And it's weird that we haven't built a culture to embrace it.
And then instead of fighting it, try to flow with it.
It's one of those things I kind of channel my inner hippie when I hear about, you know, these things and, you know, people fighting, you know, the progression of technology and time.
(17:56):
But it's also really awesome to watch, especially in this community, is, you know, really the forebearers of some of the greatest technology that man has ever had to see what they're doing with it and what they're building.
Um, there's so many in this space that crave a life in our building lives that are outside of cities that are very much in line with what I think our grandparents and great grandparents did at the turn of the 1900s, right?
(18:26):
They were putting together farms.
They were raising, you know, livestock of sorts.
They were homeschooling their children.
They were, you know, extremely proficient with firearms and defense.
It was a much simpler, easier, slower time.
I don't know how the rest of the world goes there, but as I see and watch Bitcoiners continue to pioneer this space and really push the envelope,
(18:57):
I see more and more that we're just adding technology to old ways and the mass effect of communication and the network effect to be able to share those old ways with each other while preserving the value of our lives and what we've just strived to earn and then capture in Bitcoin.
(19:20):
I don't know.
For me, it's not scary.
It's one of those things where I see it and I just go, wow, yeah.
Now, you know what, being from the 1900s, you know, we were cavemen and we were barely scratching the surface of technology.
But now that so much is coming out and so much is leaking from, you know, government sources and things like that.
And there's people pushing the idea of, you know, I don't want to say infinite energy, but, you know, machines that can pull energy out of ether,
(19:49):
magnetics, you know, in terms of propulsion and everything else that's happening.
This is one of those spaces that I marvel at.
And it's not that I wish away the years and days, but I'm excited to see what Bitcoiners, especially the Bitcoin veteran space, is going to do in terms of helping people live the lives that they've always dreamed about and then some that they can't even fathom.
(20:15):
That's exciting to me.
And I think AI is definitely part of that.
you know, there's going to be so much that comes from our ability to transact with open AI,
you know, the AI that's actually not going to censor, the AI that's not going to, you know,
throttle or be coded. Like those are, they're going to get left in the dust. And there's a great
(20:36):
series out there. I'm trying to think of, Guy Swan did it. And he talks about how the most open AI,
the most utilitarian AI is going to win out because at the end of the day,
people don't want suppressed artificial intelligence.
They want, you know, anything and everything that they can get their hands on.
(20:58):
And I think that's, you know, that's just kind of the modality of truth.
Truth wants to be free. Information wants to be free. And, you know, this is,
this is the space that's doing it.
We do need based AI for sure.
Want to get to some more hands and really great comments.
Gene, Neil, I think you were next. Go ahead.
yeah uh the ai stuff's interesting and what i'm always always i'm anchoring my thoughts on ai is
(21:23):
okay well what is it not and you know we can call it intelligence and we can have lots of different
uh definitions for what that even means but i mean ai is not rational like it's not pulling
anything out of the world that it's not abstracting principles that we didn't already put there like
We are the one, like, we're the rational creature that collates and abstracts principles from reality.
(21:49):
And we put that into the AI and then we can use it extremely powerfully.
But, like, you know, so what does that mean for me?
It's like, okay, well, make sure, you know, that whatever value you're going to create, make sure you're leveraging that, you know, your rationality.
Make sure you're actually abstracting principles and using those principles.
and then like that makes you immune to like losing your like ai is not a threat to you if that's if
(22:15):
that's the value you're creating you know the people that ai is going to destroy are all the
stupid middlemen bureaucratic administrators that aren't actually doing anything like the the admin
person they didn't create the form they didn't create the protocol they didn't you know come up
with anything they're just literally executing you know an ordered syntax um and charging you
(22:37):
fees for it so it's just like you know those people are going to get wrecked because they're
not needed like the ai will do that you know we train the ai we tell it what to do we make the
connections for it and it just executes faster than we can even like comprehend and it seems like
spooky and magical but it's like that the people make ai like powerful we're the ones that actually
(23:00):
feed it the power so it's like i don't know i i'm excited by ai because i understand like what it
does, what it can be, how it can be leveraged, but I'm not scared by it because it's just a tool at
the end of the day that a human has to use. And, uh, on a side note about the financial advisors,
like that's actually what really got me started down, you know, this, this path of even like,
(23:21):
what is money? Cause I asked my stupid little broker guy, like some basic, basic questions and
he provided retarded answers. And I was like, Oh shit, I have to take, I can't, I can't outsource
this anymore. Like he's retarded. He's not, he's not describing or explaining, you know, the reality
that I see before my eyes. So I got to level up and take that responsibility. So I actually owe him
(23:44):
a great, I'm indebted to him, eternally grateful for being so retarded that it activated me and got
me actually caring about the important stuff in life. But thanks. Yeah, it's really good stuff.
And there's a lot of threads I could pull on from that. One of them, I do want to get to Rico,
But one of them I wanted to bring up is related to the economy and, you know, what you brought up, Neil, was this threat to jobs in a variety of spaces.
(24:14):
And one thing I picked out of the Jackson Hole meeting last week when, you know, all markets rose based on Powell's comments is this, you know, we've a lot of in Bitcoin spaces, we've been talking about this a long time that the Fed is going to come off their 2% inflation target rate.
And I think based on the comments last week and their worry about employment, they are already coming off that number.
(24:45):
And so I think we know what that all means, right?
There's higher prices. Assets will continue to be buoyed.
Things like Bitcoin will continue to go up, which we all know.
But I think, you know, we're really starting to see it in real time.
And it's interesting how AI plays a role in some of this.
(25:09):
And with that, we'll go to Rico.
Oh, I love this comment.
This conversation is great.
It's more productive than a lot of conversations I've been hearing in spaces.
I do want to say that, like, this is like going back to TC, what he's talking about.
Like, there was a time when we had like VHS and people didn't have cell phones and we didn't have the Internet.
So and then the unlocking of the Internet unlocks all of this information.
(25:33):
So I guess like what I'm trying to get to is that over the time, the only thing we really have on this earth is the time and the decisions you make every day.
And I know people are asking these big, big questions about what I'm going to do.
And they're scared and the change. It's like you have to slowly adapt.
You don't have to, you know, quit your job or all of a sudden spend all your hours like trying to figure out what to do with AI.
(25:56):
it's because I'm dealing with this right now I'm on a simbathical year so I have to figure out what
I'm doing for a year um to prepare myself for the the next decade two decades three decades
and so I guess I'm trying to say this is proof of work like for me it's about going back to the
drawing board I'm clearing the these ideas and just looking at what am I good at uh and what can
(26:19):
I bring to the market and it I don't I work more in the social like I'm a teacher so I'm and I
live at a farm. So I'm really good at connecting people. But I don't necessarily use AI for
any kind of vibe coding. I just use it to search questions. It's like a super search engine. And so
(26:40):
I would just say that for a lot of people, you're going to see people scared of the change,
and you just have to adapt. I mean, think about how much the world has changed and how much you
Are you happy with the decisions you made that brought you to this point in the advancement of technology?
Or did you, in a sense, look back and say, I could have done a little bit more.
(27:02):
I could have applied myself more.
So I guess I would just say is a good time to go back to the drawing board if you're asking yourself those questions and say, what am I good at?
What can I produce or services that I can offer?
And then maybe also going to your physical being and saying, am I good with myself?
Am I stable?
(27:23):
psychologically. Am I physically prepared for the changes if there's going to be, you know,
a shortage of food or whatever? I'm just saying that there's a big change happening and it's all
we have is proof of work. So I'll leave it at that. Yeah, I love that. Hey, Wade, thanks for coming up.
What's on your mind? Morning, Bob. Just in the context of talking about, you know, where we are
(27:44):
with the AI revolution, I'm not really that 100%, you know, convinced about the efficacy or efficiency
of the AI models and whatnot right now.
But one of the major concerns I have
is the production and energy and capacity bottlenecks,
which we're going to have.
If we're going to make all of these investments,
it's going to require significant amounts of uranium,
(28:06):
rare earth materials, and labor
that we simply do not have right now.
I mean, the Navy is paying welders $150 an hour
to put their submarines together right now.
So if we try to 2x or 10x our energy consumption, how are we going to build these nuclear facilities?
(28:28):
How are we going to build these natural gas plants to get any and all of this material off the ground?
There's serious bottlenecks.
There's serious labor shortages all the way around.
And these types of investments are going to require materials from abroad.
And I don't know how we're going to get there without a significant inflationary event to make the acquisitions required for these investments.
(28:54):
Well, that's exactly the point.
It kind of goes along with in the spirit of Labor Day.
You know, $150 an hour, that's probably actually the good wage and the average wage for that kind of work.
Maybe it's even higher.
And so people are starting to realize that
They don't want to get paid this shit dollar
For shit work
(29:15):
And so you know
They're going to have to print a bunch of money
To get the things they want
And they're going to pay people
You know
What is the living wage at the time
The problem is Is that six months later You hit that inflation spike And then your goods are twice as expensive again But my concern is that doesn get us
(29:38):
You could raise the wage to $1,000 an hour,
and that doesn't get you any more qualified welders quick enough.
This is the exact same thing that Rheinmetall ran into
with their artillery shell production.
They ended up raising the rate for what an artillery shell costs
from $800 a shell to $8,000 a shell,
and they're not getting, they're not increasing their production capacity.
(30:00):
Yeah, right.
There's definitely a lag and it requires even more, you know,
you have to build the infrastructure to get this kind of like qualified worker available too.
So then that's more money that needs to go into these training facilities and everything else,
trade schools, all this kind of stuff to get things built in this country again.
So I would expect to see a large influx if they're serious about doing this.
(30:25):
And I think just the market is I think Americans are serious about doing this kind of work and bringing production back to this country.
And, you know, that's going to require the money printer.
Yeah, I'm just saying that it's likely it looks like if we're going to do it and we're going to try and do it right,
it's going to be a five or 10 year inflationary cycle of reshoring labor and production capacity.
(30:48):
This isn't something you do in a year or two.
Yeah, this is the signal to the market, right?
If we're paying these guys, you know, $150 or $1,000 an hour to be welders on, you know, whatever or electricians because we just don't have the supply of these blue-collar workers that we need, this is the signal to the market that we need more blue-collar workers.
(31:10):
And if that's, you know, what entices them to become a electrician or a welder or whatever, you know, blue-collar job that's out there, then that's definitely what we need.
And that's coming.
Mike Rowe talks about this extensively, and I think he's absolutely on the money.
The amount of blue-collar workers that we need, there are things that are not going to be going away with AI.
(31:32):
And there's tons and tons and tons of great jobs out there.
And there's developing, I would say, let's just put it this way.
I happen to see the request for proposals and for quotes and things like that in the energy space.
and the plans that the U.S. government has to support exactly what we're talking about is that.
(31:57):
There is a ton of money that they are going to print out of thin air and they are going to throw at energy creation and everything that we need to get that done.
So it's already started.
If you're out there and you're looking for work, this is a great opportunity, especially if you need the skills or are, you know, kind of already in those markets.
(32:19):
Like these are trade jobs that are available and that are going to be extremely coveted and highly valuable for anybody that can pull this off and start to switch their mindset from white collar to blue collar.
Yeah, and I do think that it also pertains to some of us that have kids, right?
Like you're, you gotta be evaluating sec, you know, the post-secondary education and
(32:43):
the value of that with, uh, just learning how to prompt and get good information and
understanding, um, how to think about these things, um, I think is, is going to be huge
and it's hard.
Like there's a transition period.
And I think people are going to have, some people are going to succeed and some people
(33:03):
are going to make the mistake of paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for an education.
that really is completely unnecessary.
And hopefully they're not going into massive amounts of debt to do it.
Hey, I saw Povey's hand, and so I was going to jump in and interrupt.
But this time I'm going to defer.
Go ahead, Povey.
(33:24):
This is great stuff.
You know, one of the questions that we sometimes need to ask and forget to ask is, all right, so what?
So then what?
So what is the use of this automation we've had over the years?
What is the use of this AI?
As someone brought up earlier, what about this time that you have on your hands?
(33:44):
And I can tell you just being in Bitcoin, before you know it and you stack long enough, it's like, oh, goddammit, my retirement sort of plan I thought was going to be 15 years away is now 12 years ahead of schedule.
And so what?
And you've got these think tanks that have seen this coming down the road for years.
I mean, by years, I mean decades, the 60s.
(34:07):
And they knew basically what they assumed was citizens that their idle hands will be work of the devil.
And you flood the workforce.
You double the tax base and you flood the workforce with women.
But they realized, oh, goddammit, our population is going to be out of control.
And this is what you're going to find.
We're going to have a bunch of useless eaters.
And that's what many are.
(34:27):
And this is what many can be.
You say, OK, we're going to take care of all your needs.
What are you going to do all day?
And you'll say, well, goddammit, I'm a gamer.
and people got to ask themselves a personal question.
Some are religious.
Some will say, you know what, I'm going to get more spiritual.
I want to spend more time with family.
Others, yeah, they're going to exist to do things that may seem mindless.
(34:49):
So everyone, I would just encourage in and of yourself, say, all right,
this stuff is coming down.
Automation kicked a lot of blue-collar jobs down the road.
AI, there's going to be a lot of surprises to law firms,
to doctors who thought they had this job.
And this is a serious thing.
That's great that you freed all this stuff and you created this beautiful thing.
(35:12):
But what does that actually mean then?
And then what?
And so what?
So now, damn, you're 45.
And you're thinking, I got half a life to go.
All my basic needs are met.
Who am I?
Those are some serious damn questions.
I go through that honestly on a daily basis.
Who am I?
What am I going to do that's valuable to myself, my family, my community?
(35:35):
Those are sort of tough things.
So I think it's great that you open up a rabbit hole with what AI is going to do and change, but then you've got to ask yourself, and then what?
Goddamn meaning of life.
Got to do something.
For real, though, it's a heavy-duty thing.
(35:56):
And a lot of people maybe set themselves on a path at a very young age.
You know, certainly I'd say the education system is set up this way to kind of put people on a certain trajectory from a pretty young age when, I don't know, my life experience tells me whatever the hell I thought in my early 20s is nothing like what I thought in my 30s and is nothing like what I think today.
(36:24):
and so you have to actually
maybe develop some dynamicism
and I think maybe that's where the AI thing
comes into play for a whole bunch of people
is like you can through this technology
educate yourself in an entirely new way
(36:44):
you can pick a new specialty
a new focus, a new skill set
A meal, your mic is live, a skill set.
You can basically onboard yourself to that in a faster time frame and in a more productive context than ever before.
(37:07):
because now instead of having to go pursue an educational path to learn something,
then go into, you know, maybe the job market and hopefully find a job
and then maybe find an apprenticeship and so on and so on.
Years go by before you're kind of like on your feet.
I see many cases out there where people are in just literal, like, I mean, look,
(37:32):
Jack put out that BitChat app that he literally coded up in a weekend.
You get an idea and AI not only allows you maybe to figure out how you would go about doing that, but actually execute on doing it.
And so it's one of these things. That's kind of what the vibe coding terminology really means is like there's a path to actually manifesting ideas that is real that we just never had before.
(38:05):
So I would say just even looking at like, you know, technology a decade ago versus today, there are massive opportunities and there's kind of a divide out there right now between those that embrace this AI technology and recognize it as the accelerant that it is.
(38:26):
and there's the people that are kind of maybe standing on the sideline and just
just waiting and and and you know maybe are fearful or maybe are hesitant or maybe
assume it's not for them i think it's one of these things it's kind of like
if you go back 10 or 15 years and you said look at this search engine technology that google came
(38:47):
out with that's that's interesting but that's just for internet nerds i don't really need that
and then look at what's happened in all industries in regards to marketing and presence on the web
and how that turns into kind of a ubiquitous facet of things.
So I see it that way.
It's just here comes these next set of powerful tools.
(39:10):
Whatever you do, it will accelerate and it offers you a really – it's like a magic trick.
you can basically shortcut a lot of the time that it would have taken to educate yourself on a certain subject matter,
strategize about how to move forward or do something, and then actually execute on it.
(39:32):
And there's literally people doing all of that in a weekend and manifesting something that didn't exist before.
It's incredibly powerful.
Yeah, I think you're going to see an explosion, and we already are, an explosion of software, right?
because a lot of people have a lot of great ideas.
But in order to innovate, you have to have capital.
(39:54):
You have to have time.
You have to have all these things.
And vibe coding really allows normal people
who don't know how to code anything to create.
And I think this speed up of failing fast
is going to lead to lots of innovations.
(40:16):
but I think one thing we haven't really touched on is some of the negatives.
Rico, go ahead.
Yeah.
What TC is talking about makes me think of like a creative Renaissance.
And I think a lot of people are so worried that they're going to be,
they're not going to be successful.
So I've been dealing with like having everything kind of organized.
(40:36):
I like things organized and clean and that's just how I am,
but it's going to get messy.
There's going to be anarchy.
It doesn't have to succeed.
you know you might get shut off of Google Play Store
because you know maybe they don't like you
but that's kind of like this switch over
so you don't have to have all the answers
I think that a lot of people around you
are doing the same thing
(40:57):
they're all lost in translation
so it's a good time to be fucking lost
it's okay to be a mess
I got something Bob for the dark side
which is basically
you know, the AI has like very seamlessly replaced search in so many contexts. I mean,
(41:20):
quite literally, you go to Google, and the top results now are the AI generated results,
not even the ones that people are paying to advertise, right? And most people don't even
pay really attention to that. I was bitching and moaning a decade ago about why don't people like
pay more attention to the sponsored search results versus the organic ones below them?
(41:40):
And now it's like you got AI ones elbowing out the sponsored results.
So people don't realize it, but this technology has been integrated like everywhere.
So now you're kind of deferring your source of truth or your expertise to individual models all over the place.
(42:01):
We see it all over X.
People are just constantly asking Grok to like, is this true?
And there's a real dangerous, casual attitude and naive attitude about what are these AIs actually.
And the reality check for most normies about how frequently they're just outright wrong, how frequently they just are not providing you with facts.
(42:29):
And it's one of the biggest flaws is that they will always give you an answer.
Have you ever seen an AI say, gee, I don't know, or I'm not sure?
Like, they don't do that.
So just check yourself, because a real human being would run into situations like that and say, wait, gee, I'm not really sure.
(42:53):
I need to look into that more, or that's a complex topic.
There's not a real simple answer right now.
These things don't do that.
What they do is they search their little models and they come up with what they assess to be the best answer to give back.
And that's not necessarily always based on what's the most truthful or accurate.
(43:14):
So I think we're going into a world here rapidly where a ton of people are even more misinformed, despite the fact they have all this insane world of information at their fingertips.
Yeah, I mean, when we stopped teaching people how to think critically, that I think is where what you're saying is true, where people will come in and basically they're seeking truth from an AI and that's problematic.
(43:44):
Pubby, see your hand again. Go ahead.
Yeah, there's a few writers out there.
This is a French guy, Jacques Loul, who wrote a book called The Technological Society.
Another one I would recommend is Neil Postman.
And at its crux, they, they, why they extol the value of technological change and what we're getting is they're the ones that actually asked the question, what is being taken away?
(44:08):
What is taken away?
Because everything that gives something is taken away.
And one of the stories they tell was this old king and of course it sort of a parable that had a bunch of wise men and saying you know during the time of peace and he says I going to have a competition on who can come up with the best invention
And I'll give everyone a month to do this.
(44:28):
Well, they came back, a bunch of cool things,
but the one that was the most intriguing was this guy that invented this thing,
and he called it writing.
And he says, you know, King, everything that you say,
Everything that you, all of your laws, we can now write down and it's permanent.
Everyone can see it.
Okay.
Anywhere you go, you can see this.
(44:50):
And he had thought about it for a moment and said, I see the value.
I see this value in what you're saying.
However, when it's down on this paper, it's not lost from our minds.
Right now, everyone has my laws written on their heart and memorized.
And this is what you're seeing when it comes to AI.
(45:11):
They had a they just had a they were there measuring the the AI searches.
And as soon as school stopped, it dropped to near zero for the summer months.
And they're actually just what they're doing is the kids now just trust the eye.
Yeah, fuck it. You know what?
AI, what's this? You get people that are driving like literally they'll follow their GPS and drive into a body of water because the GPS says this is the road.
(45:34):
There's no like you're talking about the critical thinking that's going.
but the mind changes and that was always the human experience you're losing a human experience of
you make a decision on the facts as you've learned them you find out that you know what my decision
was wrong because i didn't listen to this person i didn't research this and that's that is a human
experience and that's why you look at people that are we consider wise are elders look at them
(45:58):
because they've they've been through it they started out young they made a stupid mistake
they learned from it and that's the thing that gets taken away here that's the dark side of all
this technology is what are we losing as humans yeah really good stuff and it it reminds me uh
you know driving into a lake it reminds me of uh people uh who get hit by cars as they're just
(46:23):
looking staring at their phone and uh trying to cross the street it's crazy to me uh neil i see
your hand go ahead yeah i was just gonna say uh hey grok what's in my pocket you know like i don't
It's like you really don't have to get too confounded by this mystic magic thing.
Like if you are focused and you're directing your human potential, your energy at the real world, looking outside, looking at problems, like that's what you feed the AI.
(46:57):
You go find out what's in the box.
You feed that to the AI and then you use that.
Like that's how you leverage it to help you become a more powerful human agent.
So, you know, like the hottest question.
Yeah, good stuff.
No, I appreciate it.
And this has been fun, guys.
Wanted to say good morning to Petro.
(47:19):
We do have to have him come back up.
Yes.
Dedicate a show to the project he's been working on.
I'm curious to hear an update.
but don't have a ton of time left in the show.
So thanks for coming up and would love to hear your contributions to the topic, sir.
(47:41):
But I got a hold of a world renowned.
He is he's a guy that studies the ethics is an ethicist for psychology,
for ethical applications of psychological treatments.
(48:02):
The way I ran into this guy is because the first person that I was,
I don't know if you guys know Noah Kahn.
I think that's his name.
He's one of the Bitcoin doctors.
He's been around the space.
He's a really cool guy.
Anyways, we got to chatting about the project,
and he put me in contact with a friend of his
that has been doing work with TMS, transmagnetic stimulation.
(48:26):
And so that's kind of a dicey topic in the world of clinical applications.
And so the fact that I'm working with two guys that are already working at the bleeding edge of what's ethically correct
and that they are world experts gives me a lot of hope for them putting me in the right path to get this thing done correctly.
So for those of you that do not know, I'm working on an AI standalone system that would be basically air-gapped from the Internet
(48:53):
that would allow for therapy of veterans at home
without having to have access to the VA
because the VA sucks.
I know I work there.
So that's a short run of what's going on.
Yeah, I think the first question
or the first prompt to the AI is,
(49:15):
please tell me what I want to hear.
No, I'm just kidding.
But I do think that that's a problem for some people.
And in your application in particular, I think I'm sure you can set the parameters so that the AI is actually asking valuable questions.
One thing that I've learned and maybe just, you know, as we kind of head towards the end of the show,
(49:38):
I wonder if people up here on stage or maybe someone in the audience that wants to come up has learned how to prompt better.
So I think we've kind of touched on it here during the show that search engines are kind of dead or, you know, if you do use Google, you're getting the AI anyway.
But a lot of people just simply use the AIs that are out there to ask questions or to use it as a search engine, because that's what people have been used to doing for 20 plus years, 25 years.
(50:13):
And so I wonder if anybody has any tools or suggestions.
I could come up with a couple on how to prompt better so that you get better results from the AI.
Does anybody want to chime in on that?
Yeah, but I think Rico wants something to say because he's been slamming his head.
No, no, no.
I would rather hear the response.
(50:34):
It's nothing.
I'm just going to rebuttal the same thing in the comments.
Okay.
So a quick response on that is prompt engineering is dead.
Context engineering is the new thing.
So what do I mean by that? Prompt engineering has to do with the way that you tell the LLM more information about what you want so that it has more more stickiness as to what you're trying to get out of it.
(51:00):
So it needs mental guardrails.
Like that's really the way, the best way to put it.
Because if you don't, what basically an LLM is doing is it has the corpus of knowledge of all of the probabilistic words that are in that vector database.
When I say a vector database, this is really important to try to understand.
It's arrows in some space in the computer, right?
(51:25):
Like so imagine a bunch of arrows in a big knotted mess.
But the arrows, the distance and the length and the direction of the arrows has to do with the meaning of the word.
And so you would imagine that the word German shepherd and Australian shepherd, those ideas would have very, very similar vectors.
Because A, they share the word shepherd and B, they share the idea of dog.
(51:49):
So that's a quick explanation as to what you're traversing when you're asking an LLM for something.
You're basically asking it to give you the next right arrow.
in that series of arrows of responses.
It really doesn't think about it like words.
And so what you want to do is you want to give it like primed information
(52:11):
that leads it to the right responses before you ask the question.
So one thing you can do is tell it, behave like an expert
or behave like a group of experts.
a very interesting thing to also do is give me the critique of such and such,
especially if they're a podcaster or a well-written person.
(52:33):
The more material that they have written, the more that you're going to get that person's voice.
So you can imagine that a Lynn Alden is very prolific in her writing,
and so the LLMs have Lynn pretty freaking nailed down.
So you can ask for Lynn to critique your essay, right?
(52:54):
Or you can ask for Lynn to say, for example, have an argument with, I don't know,
Saif Adina Moose about a particular topic.
And then you get very interesting responses.
So those are ways that you can begin to think about what's happening.
Now, caveat to all this is with the advent of thinking models,
(53:17):
you're going to get a shit ton of noise if you prompt engineer.
And if you don't know how you prompt engineer,
because they behave completely different than non-thinking models.
And so you have to be very,
very careful about what you're asking to what thing.
And so it really,
it's a tough question when you actually get technically down into it,
(53:37):
because every LLM has its own thing it's good at and its own thing it's good
that makes the responses completely different.
Yeah, good stuff.
And one thing I train people on actually, especially banks,
(53:58):
is a lot of what you said, which is first you've got to give it context.
Then you've got to tell it its role.
So, you know, it could be one person or you can call it an expert in a certain area.
And then what I like to really do is ask it to interview me.
So interview me and give me five questions, one at a time, so that you can gain more perspective, more context on what I'm actually trying to get out of asking you.
(54:26):
And then I give it a task. And so I say, here's what I really want.
And then because it's not descriptive enough in just that initial prompt of context, role, interview, and task, it'll actually come back to me and ask me single questions at a time, up to five, and it will build off of each answer.
(54:49):
And then eventually it gives me a full-length thing and will make suggestions based on its response.
So what you're talking about is agentic workflow?
which is an important different thing, right?
Like you're breaking down the things that you're doing into steps.
Then you get a response from that step and you feed it to the next step.
(55:13):
And so, again, these are things that you have to almost break it down
into like coaches, like, you know, dry board,
and you're doing like the X's and O's and stuff,
and you're like, okay, this is going to go this way,
and then it's going to spit out and go that way.
And really, it sounds funny, but like if you don't do this, you get garbage.
(55:35):
You get absolute garbage.
Like it just hallucinates and starts giving you nonsense.
So very important thing is you have deterministic and non-deterministic tasks.
And the more you go towards a defined, let's say, for example, five-step deterministic plan,
(55:57):
you're going to get a lot better results than if you go non-deterministic.
You know, although there are times when you want a non-deterministic LLM doing things.
And this is one thing I'm going to kind of leave you guys with is
you have to start thinking about an LLM like a CPU and like maybe even a gateway
(56:22):
and maybe even like a router.
and you have to start thinking about virtual machines
and the LLM is like the CPU of the virtual machine
and then the vector database is like the hard drive memory space.
And then you actually have a hard drive space
(56:42):
and then you have to think about,
okay, now what I want to do is I want to put a data lake in my set
so that inside of my data lake,
certain tasks, LLMs, things are accessible. Outside, they are not. And so this really
becomes important in the idea of securing your own materials and your own identity, because like Bob
(57:07):
said, you're asking this thing to interview you. If you're talking to an online one, I have news
for you. It's mapping your psyche. Yeah, really good stuff. And I'm glad to get to this
maybe at the end of the episode, for some people, they're like, hey, I'm a prompt, you know, expert,
and I understand these things. But, you know, for some of us, we just need the how to. So it was fun
(57:31):
today to get into, you know, all the topics around AI and, and Bitcoin. That's, that's kind
of where we went with it. But it's also awesome to get into the nitty gritty a little bit. And so
thankful for each of you guys for coming up and sharing perspective, having the discussion.
And it's always fun.
(57:52):
We do this every weekday, 10 a.m. Eastern, except for we won't be on Monday, taking the day off.
So chill out, go touch some grass, enjoy.
And yeah, I want to wish you guys a great Friday.
And don't forget to check out BitcoinVeterans.org if you need help on your Bitcoin journey.
And also, if you're looking to attend the conference, BitcoinVeterans.org forward slash Summit 2025.
(58:15):
and always remember whatever you do,
do not shit coin.
I don't have anything new guys for the shit coin thing today.
So I just want to disappoint everybody with that.
(58:45):
as a store of value.
We call them we pour.
We call them we pour.
People that use
to see our
currency,
we call them we pour.
Popular Podcasts
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com