August 8, 2025 • 58 mins
Join Bob and the panel as they have a very casual conversation about bitcoin
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Thank you.
(00:30):
All right. Good morning, everybody. Welcome in. Welcome in. It's Friday.
And we will get it looks like we have a couple of folks who have joined us up on the stage.
My long lost friend Coleman. Thanks for coming up, sir. Neil. Good morning, as always.
(00:55):
Hope to get some of you up here as well.
um but yeah let me wish you a good morning and welcome you to bitcoin veteran spaces number
239 where if you're just joining us we talk about bitcoin my name is bob van kirk i'll be your host
(01:16):
i'm joined by our co-host coleman and it's going to be a great day guys friday august 8th 2025
and let's take a look at the time chain today.
We are at Bitcoin block height, $909,183,
with the Bitcoin price hovering just about around $117,000,
(01:42):
which means you can still pick up 854 sats for each U.S. dollar.
If you haven't gotten off zero yet, please consider doing so, not financial advice.
Yesterday, we got to speak with Rob Warren from Bitcoin Park.
If you missed that one, I think there were a lot of great themes besides talking about the Imagine If Summit coming up in September.
(02:08):
And so, yeah, if you missed it yesterday, please check that one out.
Rob had a lot of great things to say besides just talking about the summit.
If you guys are interested in that one, though, do check out BitcoinPark.com.
Also, not to be outdone, our very own Bitcoin Veterans will be having their second annual summit November 10th and 11th in Nashville in coordination with Bitcoin Park.
(02:36):
And they'll be hosting us.
Day one will be the conference on Monday the 10th.
And then on Veterans Day, there'll be a range day.
So if you're looking to be firing some firearms and getting some training, that would be a great opportunity for that.
If you want to get involved with that, looking for all kinds of folks to volunteer, they're accepting speakers, panel topics, all that stuff.
(03:06):
Go to BitcoinVeterans.org forward slash summit 2025 and get involved.
It should be a great time.
Nashville is pretty nice still usually in November, although we can't promise the weather, but it should be a great time.
So, all right, enough for announcements.
Let's kick off the show by saying good morning once again to Neil and Coleman.
(03:30):
Let's start with Coleman.
How are you doing this morning, sir?
Hey, guys.
Can you hear me?
Yes, you must be lifting heavy things again.
Always, Bob. Always. Yeah, if there's too much background, you know, you should let me know. I'm happy to be up here.
(03:51):
Yeah, thanks for joining. Neil, good morning, sir. How are you today?
Good morning. Yeah, I'm doing really good. I'm actually pretty excited.
I'm going to meet up with some other Bitcoin veterans today in real life for the first time.
So that'll be a fun thing. Perfect. Yeah, that's great.
Always good to do things in real life, for sure.
(04:12):
I think I see some people who usually join us.
I see AC.
If you get a chance, please do come up.
Today is Freedom Tech Friday or Free For All Friday.
We can really talk about anything.
It's been an eventful week.
Lots of things going on.
We've steered clear of a lot of the news this week.
(04:32):
We could head there or we can continue on other topics that we've been touching on this week.
so really guys it is up to you and if you're in the audience and would like you have something
on your mind would like to come up and chat with us use that little microphone button in the bottom
left you can request to come up we'll be nice to you or at least try to be as long as you don't
(04:55):
shitcoin this is a bitcoin only show also you can participate by hitting that little comment
box in the purple pill down in the bottom right of your screen and type your comments questions
and snide remarks. And you can even put in a nice meme in there for us. All right. So maybe we kick
(05:17):
it off with, well, again, you guys can take it anywhere you want. But Trump had a new executive
order yesterday, trying to push the markets to get Bitcoin into 401k plans. And I wonder,
Does this change anything in your guys' mind?
And welcome to the stage as well, BFP.
(05:50):
I didn't have the crickets ready.
Does anybody know about this objective?
I can introduce it.
Go ahead, Coleman.
I'm seeing just an observation.
I see a lot of executive holders coming out of this administration without a lot of, I guess, legal backing on it.
(06:11):
So, yeah, it sounds really good in the short term, but we're going to do quick things.
We have a long-term time horizon.
Really easy the next three years for someone to come with a story to the pen and change back all of these leaders.
yeah so i think i heard what you said coleman a little bit of background noise there but um
(06:33):
yeah it seems like these uh executive orders really are pointing us in a direction doesn't
mean that they will stick around so um i think i caught that anybody else neil thoughts on this
move the needle at all?
Does it give signal to the markets?
(06:54):
BFP, any
thoughts, either of you guys on this one?
Yeah, I mean, I don't
really know if it's
that much signal. I mean,
that's kind of stepping out of my lane
in the more economic stuff, but
I mean, I would imagine that that's
really, if it's going to do anything, if it is
going to move the needle, it's going to be
tapping into just like the passive,
(07:17):
like people's
passive investments. Like although, I mean, so like, I don't even know if that really,
if you're getting indirect passive exposure, because you're just buying some index,
you're just buying some, you know, thing that has exposure. It's like,
you're not really learning anything about Bitcoin at all. So it might make the price,
(07:41):
it might help the price go up, but I don't know if that helps us move the ball in terms of orange
pilling people and getting families like on a Bitcoin standard.
Yeah, I think it's a really good point.
Passive inflows into Bitcoin would be probably one of the biggest things that we'd see out
(08:06):
of it.
But I still think that an executive order doesn't force some of these 401k providers
to allow that.
So, I don't know. I think it's, we'll see. BFP, go ahead, sir.
I think it's going to help the housing market get off its rear end and get moving because it allows a lot of other stuff.
(08:35):
Bitcoin is just going to move by itself.
I think Americans, we live in a bubble because we're hegemonically the captains.
We live on the top of the pyramid with our fiat currency.
And even though they debase us, they debase everyone else worse.
(08:57):
So I think when the world catches on to what's really going on, these velvet shackles,
they're going to wake up and it's going to be
Bitcoin's going to start moving real fast
Yeah, it's
an echo here, I got a phone call, hang on
(09:19):
Yeah, I heard the echo that time
I think the economics
of it are going to be good for his whole plan
to grow us out of the debt, which is kind of absurd,
but that's what Bess and the administration has planned,
(09:44):
is to grow us out of this debt spiral, which is literally impossible.
yeah it's funny because like the way you grow is by just further accelerating the debasement
(10:05):
essentially the rock in the hard place yeah it's yeah it's basically getting more
and more liquidity into the system to where everyone's just, you know, got their foot.
It's kind of like everyone speeding down the Autobahn.
(10:29):
It's just everyone's got to go faster.
And so we're just catapulting ourselves into a faster and faster economy,
which makes all the prices go up and it makes our debt less valuable.
it's like getting
more and more house
so you can have a bigger and bigger mortgage
(10:50):
so the mortgage will get debased quicker
it's just illogical thinking
but that's Keynesianism
whatever you want to call it
I like just saying
it's retarded that works too yeah we were trying to cover for you there Bob me and Neil
(11:18):
did you leave again yeah no I'm back um I do think that
you know we've we've been playing around with this and talking about it kicking
(11:40):
Am I the only one that can't hear Bob?
(12:04):
No, I can't hear him either.
okay i thought i was in a dead spot or something bob we lost you again
you go
(12:36):
This is some serious dead space.
What were you going to say, Neil?
Oh, I was just going to say, I think I picked up your Velvet Chains reference.
(13:02):
Yeah.
We're all just getting, or I'm not really, but people are complacent with the status quo.
And it's changing, right, beneath their feet.
It's shifting.
Yeah, I mean, maybe that's something that ties back into kind of what we were talking about with this executive order.
(13:24):
I do think it does inject pain in different ways.
Like, so even though they're trying to, you know, put some salve on one aspect of, you know, this economy coming apart at the seams, it's like, well, it just, it doesn't alleviate the tension.
(13:48):
It just shifts it somewhere else.
So it's like, you know, there is a level of pain at which people will actually pay attention.
So it's, you know, in some sense, you can think of it as even a good thing.
Like, like they have to, they have to do something and that thing just further accelerates, you know, it just injects more and more force into the seam.
(14:12):
And like, it's going to, it's going to be felt by people in different, different areas of their lives.
It affects the common man a lot different than it does the Wall Street guy.
But I mean, I don't know.
I'm, I'm very bullish on people waking up.
I mean like that I want to orange bill people I want to teach people about Bitcoin And you know so in some sense like the creation of more and more pain
(14:42):
the absurdity that the solutions, you know,
as they keep raising the level of absurdity, you know,
that is just creating opportunity for us to attack and get the message out.
0Yeah, I agree with that. It's so everywhere, like universities or college. It's hilarious how the government has backstopped. 159 00:15:13,1000 --> 00:15:32,580 It's like price controls on your university degree has pushed the price so high that just to go get a university indoctrination hat so you can go work in the licensed professions,
(15:32):
You have to pay or go into debt and be enslaved by a government backstop debt.
And it pushes the price up for everyone.
So it's really absurd how price controls have been proven time and time again that they don't work.
(15:55):
You're muting the signal of supply and demand, and that's what is everywhere.
I mean, medical, you name it. It's just everywhere now.
Yeah. And with the college, the student loans, I mean, you can look at them as usurious.
That's like a different side thing. But just like if you're coming at it from like a free market, like it's not a free market at all because you basically tell all the young kids that they have to go to college if they want to have any chance at success.
(16:29):
0And then the government fully backs and guarantees basically all the loans, which, you know, it's like any time you just inject that much demand into a market, like the colleges, they understand what's going on. 168 00:16:45,1000 --> 00:16:58,200 Like that's like it just feeds the prices that feeds like all the bloat comes from this like false demand that we've created and then enabled.
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So it's like, you know, if you return just college back to just a free market where you had to go and fund it normally without some, you know, secondary program, government insured student loan, it's like, you know, maybe prices for a college education would be down.
(17:18):
Maybe colleges actually would have to offer more value to their degrees.
But when everything's paid for and you know that it's guaranteed and they can't escape it, it's just like you don't have to worry about your product.
You don't have to worry about anything, like who you let in.
It's just like you just take anybody.
(17:38):
And that's why, I mean, college is literally a joke.
Just riffing.
yeah I mean it's one of those things where you try to convince people that um this isn't the case
right that like you should not be sending your kids to college and like that seems so foreign
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and so strange to some people and it's like well that's the only way that my kids are ever going
to have a future if they go to college and it's like I don't know I you know I have these discussions
with my wife and I have a couple of sons in high school and it's like, we need to beef up on,
um, how to use AI and to think really long and hard about jobs that will be there. Um,
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one of my sons is super like hands-on with stuff and just loves to, you know, get dirty and do all
kinds of things. And it's like, um, while I didn't want to become a tradesman, like a plumber or
something like that. I could see where that would be super fulfilling for him and he could actually
get paid to do it. A lot of people don't want to do those jobs, but that is probably better than
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going to a four-year school for him to get into huge amounts of debt or expect me to pay for it.
So I don't know. These are just things that we kind of discuss in my household as we're
evaluating the value for the money? Like, what are you getting out of it? And so, Neil, I saw
your hand go up first, and then we'll go to BFB. Yeah, this like, just really ties back into the
(19:14):
whole kind of idea of money. But like, how are you going to create value in the world? Like,
that's the question. It's not like, it's not really so much like what, if you just think like,
oh, I just need to make money. Well, in this fiat world, making money is not, that tether
from creating value has been severed. So making money isn't necessarily meaning you're creating
(19:38):
any value. That's why everybody goes into finance and just, I need to win trades. I need to get good
at extracting from others in these speculative gambles. And it's like, okay, well, that's where
everybody's pushing, but it's like if you get back to basics, back to principles and you have
your kid and you're just like, how are you going to create value in the world? Like if you can
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answer that question and pursue that, you'll be set. Like it really doesn't matter what the answer
is, because if you if you are creating value in the world, like that's the stuff that you put into
the money. That's the stuff that you're storing. That's the stuff that actually actualizes your
needs when you trade it back and forth between others.
Like, you know, it's we I really like focusing on the value and not just the stupid monetary
(20:27):
units that, you know, all these games are associated with, because at the end of the
day, the creation of value is real.
When you make something, when you create something, when you provide a service, when you offer
insight, when you could do like anything you're creating in the world, like you're going to
be you're going to be set.
And it's like, I think that should be more so the message for what I'm trying to convey to my kids when they get old enough.
(20:53):
You know, how are you adding value to the world?
Yeah, I truly believe that the tradesmen, whether you're a plumber or you're framing houses or whatever you're doing, welding that.
Well, let's just call them certificates of appreciation.
So what you, you know, take in return for your value, hopefully it's Bitcoin for the people who figure it out, that gap is going to, the gap between what a lawyer makes and a tradesman is going to shrink.
(21:35):
because people are going to realize if I store my certificates of appreciation,
the value I create in this,
then I'm going to catapult myself into a different category.
So I think as it unwinds and more people adopt Bitcoin,
you're going to see the tradesman, his star is going to rise
(21:57):
as the lawyers shrinks or the doctor.
You know, people are going it's going to level the playing field is what I'm saying.
Yeah, we also had TJ and Tomer join us. Tomer, I see your hand. Go ahead, sir. Thanks for coming up.
Hey, good morning, guys. I think just to add to some reflections on what's been said so far.
(22:20):
the whole determination of your identity that you build while you're young,
when you decide what you're passionate about and what you're going to go to school to do
or what you're going to get trained to do, what you're going to start dedicating your time to,
is a really, it becomes a really tall order and very challenging when you have a society
(22:47):
where the value awarded to those things changes dramatically in your lifetime.
So I'll give an example.
My oldest kid loved math, loves math, reads math textbooks for fun,
did a degree in math and computer science,
and finds themselves now unemployed for the first time in their four-year career so far
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and having a really hard time finding a job that they want to do
because they're focused on building video games.
And that's like a movie-type industry where you go from job to job,
like project to project.
And all the projects seem to have been canceled in the last year.
And when they were growing up, we never thought,
(23:37):
when my kids were growing up,
we never thought that this one would be the one to have a problem finding a job
because it seemed like computer programming would be endlessly short-staffed and increasing in demand.
But on a similar vein, sorry that I'm taking so long to make this point,
(24:02):
in a similar vein, they're also suffering, like that whole generation.
they're suffering from the good times make for weak men fallacy or not fallacy phenomenon because
during the good times universities lend out money left right and center they get endowments left
(24:28):
right and center from people who were successful and they get sloppy and I think this was one of
the points that was being made when I joined the spaces and so what what value the universities teach
you to create and give back to the world can get quite diminished.
And we went through this whole period, which I think we're still going through, but it
(24:49):
maybe has peaked, where the universities are more about virtue signaling than value creation.
And if you happen to spend your years in university and education and growing up during one of
these periods where you were raised weak, it's very, very hard to...
(25:10):
to have a sane view of the world where you can add value back in.
Like you did everything right by the metrics of the world.
You did what everyone told you to do.
You applied your mind in every way that was presented to you to challenge
and to create value.
And then you find yourself in a world where your skills are not in demand.
(25:35):
And I think that's a big problem right now.
and it's probably going to continue to get bigger.
People talk a lot about AI and automation through robotics
and I think some of that stuff is coming.
We're probably in that early stage of some overreaction to that.
But there's no question that a lot of lives,
(25:57):
a lot of minds have been wasted studying things
that aren't of particularly high value.
And many of those minds aren't aware that those things
aren't of particularly high value
because they were indoctrinated and told that they were of high value.
And so we've got a real big problem on our hands added to the existing problems.
(26:19):
I think it's very hard to figure out what to tell kids to do.
I think it's very hard for kids to figure out what to do nowadays.
So if everybody goes into the trades, there will be an oversupply of trades.
We will say, why do we have 10 plumbers per cap per 100 people?
it's too much. So we're really at a point in time where, I mean, I think what we haven't done is we
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haven't cashed in on, I'm sorry for ranting here. We haven't cashed in on all the productivity gains
that we got. We kept the 40 hour work week in place. And we know that it's fake, that that
demand for it is fake. Like many of the office jobs were bullshit jobs. When we went to work at
home for COVID. We realized we don't need to commute to work. And we realized we didn't even
(27:11):
need to do much of the work. Most of us have been unproductive and not generating value. The whole
middle management thing has been a make work exercise. And instead of harvesting those gains
and saying, you know, people only need to work five hours a week or three hours a week,
because we have machines that are doing all the added work.
(27:33):
We've tried to keep people busy,
and the pretense of that has created a tremendous amount of fakery,
and people have become skilled at lying about how busy they are
or how important their unimportant jobs are when they're not busy
and their jobs aren't adding value
because we haven't figured out how to fairly distribute wealth
and let people contribute what their actual value is
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and harvest the rest as profits and as free time.
So there's like three or four really convoluted, interrelated ideas in what I just said.
I haven't presented a clear theory as to what the solution is,
but I think a lot of it lies in being honest about harvesting the productivity gains that we actually get
(28:16):
rather than trying to continue to find ways to make tedious employment a lengthy part of our lives
when it doesn't need to be.
tom right i landed there i got two uh children about to be 19 and 18 boys and i'm in the same
boat i don't know what to tell them i always say serve people in a way that makes them want to pay
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you that's all i can tell you yeah and and it's hard because like so there's very simple things
that are answers to that like i'll shovel driveways and mow the grass and help little
old ladies cross the street, but that's not going to generate for them the kind of
income, freedom, wealth, value, satisfaction that is their highest potential.
(29:04):
What I been telling young people lately which isn very precise or prescriptive it go with the flow It like know what you want like set yourself some goals in terms of what you want
One kid I was talking to said he wanted to be married by the time he was 30 and wanted to have a good income.
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Another one told me that they loved working outdoors and just wanted to find a way to make it outdoors.
and I'm not going to pretend to say, oh, well, then the job you should do is our landscape
architecture or something like this. It is know what you're aiming for and then go with the flow.
And the reason is that's what creates manifestations that are flexible and dynamic.
(29:50):
They're not foolproof, but if you know what you're aiming for, then your subconscious is
constantly on the lookout for saying, oh, this fits with that, that fits with this.
And it doesn't have to be perfectly logical or perfectly deductive.
You can go with the flow and things start to happen.
And I know at times in my life when I've been most distressed about dealing with my long-term future, it hasn't been trying to create a long-term future plan that's detailed, that's worked out for me.
(30:22):
It's been doing what I want to do now and keeping an eye out for opportunities to expand it and improve upon it.
but it's, it's not all like, if you're stressed,
it's very hard to relax enough to go with the flow. So that's,
that's a little bit of the challenge. Take that stress off,
especially if you're a father who can provide for his kids to go with the flow
(30:44):
rather than to do something that they feel is responsible and like,
like going to university and studying law, but something that they hate,
just as an example, you know, if you,
If you can send them off to do something that's going with the flow, letting them live with you for longer or helping support them in some other ways, you may be doing them a bigger favor than helping pay to send them to school for a career that they don't really love or that might not be there by the time they graduate or shortly afterwards.
(31:19):
Yeah, I think that's really important.
I'll let Neil go, but I did want to say, I think our kids on average are probably not taught goal setting.
And so, you know, I really like that point to have people think about the long-term goal in mind.
Like, what are we going after here?
And then filling in the steps that it takes to get there.
(31:42):
Like, kids don't know how to goal set.
So, Neil.
Yeah, just the quick point.
And the quick point, I think, on goal setting is it's not quantitative goals.
it's qualitative goals, right?
Like, you know, or it's directional stuff.
It's not like I want to be making exactly this amount of money
and hold that position and title at a mag seven company
(32:02):
because that's really hard to expect to even exist
at the time that you set that goal for
because you just don't know what's going to exist.
But if you follow your heart rather than follow
what is presented to you by the leading minds of the world,
I think that's a giant shift
(32:23):
because it used to be
very sound advice to say
what are the experts saying
oh the experts are saying you should have a degree in
computer science and get involved
in a start up
it's not necessarily
anywhere near as valuable as it used to be
and it's not because the experts didn't
see it coming
it came really fast
(32:43):
and now they're all experts about why it's not important
but too little too late frankly
yeah uh neil uh you have your hand up sure i think maybe hopefully yeah i was just uh
tomer said something about uh you know like the plumbers like everybody can't be a plumber if
(33:05):
everybody goes in the plumbering you know then it's like that switches you know the dynamics
completely around and it's like that's exactly right like the when you're thinking about
these strategies. It's about getting your principles right. And if you have the principles,
you'll be able to apply them to find the particular solutions. And, you know, so when you see yourself
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as this, like, what am I, what are my competencies? What are my, what am I good at? Like, what do I
actually have, like my abilities? And when you're looking out at people, like everybody has needs.
And when you can see people's needs, you know, like applying your potency, your abilities to service those needs, like those are the principles and how that works.
(33:52):
It's like when you think about it that way, it kind of pushes this idea of like even what you kind of want, you know, kind of to the side.
Like, oh, I really wanted to be a barista, you know, or something like that.
But it's like and start my own coffee shop.
It's like, well, if you're in an area where there's, you know, coffee shops on every corner and the market's completely flooded, it's like you either have to like do something, you know, completely above and beyond all of that to establish yourself there.
(34:22):
Or you have to move to a place that's not there or you have to just kind of sacrifice that dream, that want of being this barista and seeing, well, what's not being serviced?
Where's the opportunity?
And if you're seeking and looking for opportunities to insert yourself,
that's the principles that you're trying to analyze the situation.
(34:47):
Each person is in their own unique circumstance,
and they have their own unique set of abilities,
and their experience, everything they're bringing to the table,
they're truly an individual is this unique thing.
And it's like, well, what can you offer the world?
What can you do? And it's, you know, it's finding it's create it's finding those those opportunities and capitalizing on them.
(35:12):
Like that's the thing that's going to do it. So if you say, oh, you just have to if someone asked you a question like that and you hit them with a particular answer,
you're I don't think you're really doing them that service, you know, because even if it's right, it's right accidentally.
You know, it's like if you teach them how to think, how to analyze and look at themselves, self-reflect and then project that out into the world, like it's making there a when there's a what's the right word?
(35:43):
Like when those things correspond, that's prosperity.
you know but if when when they don't correspond and you're providing something that's just not
needed or you just suck like you're not gonna you're not gonna have a good life like if i tried
to be a painter i would be the worst painter in the world no one would buy anything and i would
(36:04):
go hungry like it's just i even if that was my dream like it just that's not the reality of me
like i just i suck so bad at it so it's just kind of uh i don't know i i like focusing on principles
yeah it's a really great topic and you know we have some posts in the um i don't know if it was
(36:28):
the comments or where i was seeing it maybe one of our uh listeners i don't know if you guys
noticed this phenomenon of people throwing things onto the wnba courts but it's uh it's kind of wild
you know we talk about the fourth turning and you know where we're at in that and to have I guess
(36:54):
what you might politely call sex stories being thrown out on a women's basketball professional
basketball court I don't know I heard about that Bob and I thought to myself who's bringing these
things to the game like what well you can bet on it too you can bet on the color like it's uh
(37:15):
it's about as degeny as you can get
crazy times we're living in so we laugh at these things but i think you know if you're
sober-minded you start thinking you zoom out and you say okay sure we can all laugh at that but
really like i mean it brings up all sorts of questions about our society and where things
(37:39):
are at and what we really, you know, what we're really doing. Like, I almost wonder if it's a
PSYOP. I mean, the WNBA hasn't made money in its existence. It's completely subsidized by the NBA.
And you almost wonder, like, how are these things getting through security? Right. And so,
(37:59):
you know, it's funny to talk about, but again, like you start like peeling it back and you start
wondering like is this poly market uh bet that someone could put on it is that manipulated
is uh you know is this just to get more eyeballs on the wnba um like it'll you know if you if you
(38:19):
bet on something like that you're not betting on the game you're not betting on the outcome
you're not betting on the amount of assists the star players are going to have but this is a way
to get viewership if you think about it.
It's like, hey, I bet on this
and now I'm actually interested to see
like what color is going to get thrown out on the court.
Like it's kind of, it is truly insanity
(38:41):
when you really think about it.
So I'll let other people chime in,
but I think it's ridiculous, but it's also something,
like why do we bring it up?
I bring it up because, you know,
it should make you think like what's really going on here.
And, you know, maybe we don't have to spend
a lot of time on it, but it is,
just another signal that things have really broken down in our society.
(39:06):
And so anyway, I've ranted enough, but Neil, I think your hand's up.
Maybe not. Go ahead.
Sorry, my hand wasn't up, but just on your point, Bob, of how do you sneak that in?
I mean, unless they're doing cavity checks, I don't know.
I think that's a good point
(39:30):
what Bob said is you have to really take a step back
and think about what's going on and I think the same
thing goes for Trump and Powell
like is this like WWE are they really at odds with each other
or is this just the whole scheme to make it look like
they're
(39:51):
you know,
you know,
mommy and daddy are fighting,
but in reality it's planned.
This is what they do.
This is their,
uh,
stick as far as,
you know,
what they put out to the world.
And the same thing goes with the WNBA and,
(40:11):
uh,
these,
uh,
green things.
So if you're an ad advertiser,
you know,
someone who is virtue signaling,
because you know you're not really making money off of it,
but you're virtue signaling, supporting the NBA,
advertising to those fans.
And now this is somewhat allowed to go on.
(40:33):
Do you keep advertising?
You're basically complicit, I would say, to some degree.
And so I just wonder, all the stakeholders involved,
are people thinking about this?
Are they excited about it?
Are they, you know, what, I don't really know much about it, to be honest.
(40:54):
I've just seen a bunch of memes and some commentary.
Our friend Coleman posted, better question is,
where are they hiding them to get past security?
Neil kind of mentioned that.
It's funny, but again, like, I don't think security cares.
That's not what they're looking for, at least yet.
Yeah, I don't follow the WNBA,
(41:15):
and I don't even follow the NBA that much anymore, sadly.
But we got some real problems going on, and I feel like, you know, sports and all that.
You know, I am in a fantasy football league coming up,
but I do see the bread and circuses of it all.
(41:37):
So it's a fourth.
I do believe we're in the fourth tourney.
It's pretty evident to me.
So how do we fix it, guys?
What do we – I think Coleman's back up here.
Coleman, I know you're lifting heavy things, but have any fixes for this at all?
(41:59):
That's a step in the right direction.
Can you hear me?
Yep, you sound good.
A little bit of background noise, but we can handle it for now.
I'll make it quick then.
There's going to have to be some pain.
just like with anything if you want to grow
you want to challenge yourself
you want to get out of a rut there's going to be some type of pain
and we've created a society
(42:20):
where we try to limit
any exposure
and any extended duration
with pain
and until we can get over that as a society
we can start pushing each other
and start working through things
instead of taking a pill, trying to take a shortcut
ask for a handout
there's no solution
And so Bitcoin does fix this. It's the system outside the system.
(42:49):
Yeah. And I think our institutions want to continue propping things up.
And so the big question is, how does it all happen? Right.
Like, how does the pain actually occur?
And again, I'm not rooting it on.
I just I mean, I think we can all step back and see it, that there has to be more pain in order for people to wake up and realize like things are broken.
(43:17):
Again, Neil, I'm having trouble with my spaces.
I think I have your hand up, so I'll throw it over to you.
Yeah. Just to answer your question, like how do we move on?
It's like like these are I mean, I laugh at it just because I don't know how else to do it.
I mean, it's just this is clown world. It's absurd.
So just like for me kind of making light of it helps me just keep it in perspective that this is just an absurdity And that absurdity is created from this just a vacuum of meaning You know people lives have been hollowed out They don mean
(43:54):
anything when work doesn't mean anything. They're not creating value. Like that's, that's really how
we anchor ourselves in a meaning. Like we anchor our lives with meaning through that in a lot of
ways, whether that's, you know, working with your family and creating your family and your community
or, you know, your actual job.
But, you know, it's just like that's why DJ, like that's DJ culture.
(44:18):
It's in all its different manifestations, whether it's throwing stuff on the court
or it's, you know, making meme coins or, you know, like I'm not surprised that there's not,
you know, 10, you know, meme coins already about the WNBA's stuff.
Like, you know, just like this meme culture of just DJ is just, you know,
people are searching for anything and everything just to attach any meaning to.
(44:42):
And so it's like, well, what is that?
Going back to earlier, it's like, well, what do people need?
They need meaning.
Like that's the opportunity.
The opportunity is that we have, you know, to attack this big opening is like, hey, if
you can provide anybody with a sense of meaning and purpose in their life and talk to them
about that and get them focusing on the right things like that, that's going to resonate
(45:04):
inside their soul.
Like that will resonate in their heart. That'll resonate in their mind. And it's like and that's essentially what Bitcoin is doing, you know, from this outside way.
You're not directly saying, hey, do you want to have a meaningful, purposeful life? But just that the tiniest ability to just save and protect the value that you create, that that's that preserves a sliver of your human dignity.
(45:34):
and people feel it. And like when, when they feel that, that's what catches their eyes and
gets them moving in that direction. So it's just like, you know, as, as you, as you start,
you know, actualizing that human, your potential human dignity and walking in a dignified manner,
like that's what makes you stand up tall. That was what makes you move through life with,
(45:56):
you know, I don't know, like that. I think that's how that, like, that's the solution.
At the end of the day, when the problem is solved, everybody's doing that.
However it takes us as leaders to not only to walk and carry ourselves in that dignified way, but to actually do so in a way that encourages others to follow suit.
(46:21):
Like, that's why I really like, you know, Bitcoin veterans.
And it's like get on mission and being leaders.
And it's like, you know, getting everybody to come together and start, you know, just
rejecting, you got to reject the degen.
You know, you can't do that.
So I don't know.
The answer is found in, I think, in our human dignity and acting accordingly.
(46:49):
Yeah, those are really good thoughts.
Before the end of the episode, I did want to transition and talk a little bit about this new hack that I heard about yesterday from a gentleman who is in one of the meetups that I go to.
And his brother actually works for Coinbase.
(47:12):
And what we saw essentially is maybe, and this will probably come out, but he called me yesterday afternoon and shared it with me.
said hey i know you work with a lot of people and on self custody and things like that and just wanted
to make you aware um essentially you know we've we've all seen it uh where email address email
(47:33):
addresses get spoofed uh but somehow these hackers have uh infiltrated at least figured out who some
of the contacts are from coinbase employees and have been uh spoofing email addresses sending them
out and saying, you know, I think they're matching them up with Trezor users and they've got those
(47:58):
lists, right? They've got a list of Coinbase users. They've got a list of Trezor users and they've,
they're sending out these emails, phishing emails to say, hey, we know you've connected your Trezor
wallet in the past and there's an issue, there's an error and they've created with AI, they've
created a lot of really convincing content to convince the person that they basically need to
(48:25):
send a transaction. And once the person connects their hardware wallet and they have the attacker
on the phone, the attacker is purporting to be a Coinbase employee. They have an American accent,
Not sure if that's AI or not, but it's an American accent.
(48:47):
And once you connect your Trezor to the computer and you've given the Coinbase rep, I don't know if it's access or they're running some script.
But essentially, once you connect the hardware wallet, it signs a transaction and wipes your wallet.
The person that was attacked actually lost 100 Bitcoin, which, again, these things really surprise me that they're still going on, that people fall for this stuff.
(49:19):
But it is not knowing how things work and also being duped by technology.
And these guys are taking advantage.
So if you've done business on these exchanges, if you've ordered a hardware wallet from companies like Ledger, Trezor, that have been infiltrated, you were on a list as a previous customer.
(49:49):
Beware.
I almost think it's like who wants to be a millionaire if you ever watch that show.
I didn't watch it too much, but I do remember there was this thing where you could phone a friend.
And I just think before you do anything, before you act on any of these things, it'd really be good to get the advice of someone else.
(50:12):
It's almost like out of band authentication, like somebody else who could objectively just look at the situation and be like, no, you're stupid.
Hang up the phone.
Don't call them back.
you know, wipe your computer. You should have your keys protected offline in a air gap device,
(50:35):
not one that you can connect to your computer like a Trezor or a Ledger. And anyway, I just
wanted to tee that up. I know we just have a few minutes left, but I wanted to get your guys'
thoughts and make sure people are aware that this stuff is going on. I don't think we could bring
this stuff up enough because as people listen to this space, you know, we don't want people
(50:59):
to lose all the hard earned sats that they've been stacking and sacrificing for due to some
stupid decision.
And I don't know about you, but a hundred Bitcoin at this point would be life changing
money.
And some people are just trying to get point one Bitcoin, let alone one Bitcoin or 100 Bitcoin.
(51:25):
And so, yeah, I just think that it's a terrible situation.
But again, I wanted to bring it up here at the end.
So people, one, hear what's going on and two, can kind of look out for these scams, no matter how convincing these, you know, screens that might be coming up in front of you.
(51:45):
and how legit, like you don't want to let your guard down,
even if you do think it is an employee of one of these companies that you've
done business with. And so I'll, I'll leave it there.
Maybe Coleman wants to chime in, Neil, BFP,
anybody else here at the end,
we can add you up here to the stage if you hit that microphone button,
would love to kick this around with people for the next like five or so
(52:08):
minutes. And, and then we'll close it out for the week.
I'll go first and say do not use Coinbase.
They're a trash coin casino, and that's just my opinion.
And Ledger and Trezor, I would steer clear.
(52:31):
Go with Seed Center or Cold Card.
Yeah, I mean, it's just like, you know, this emphasizes just the knowledge part
and like understanding what you're doing and getting smart and proficient with everything.
And like if you're, you know, first onboarding and, you know, I don't care how anybody onboards,
(52:54):
if they need to, you know, use some, you know, company, third party to help them get in.
Like I think it's better just to get in at all than just be on the sidelines.
But understanding that like that's like a temporary thing and you need to level up.
You need to get smart and, you know, unless you're prompting things like, I don't know, like I just instantly would just delete it.
(53:22):
Like if it's really important, I mean, they'll actually get, you know, get in touch with you somehow.
But I mean, when you have your stuff in cold storage, like you're not going to get an email saying you need to enter your seed phrase or move your coins or something like that.
(53:42):
Like once you're set up, I mean, you're you're set.
So, yeah, this was an older Trezor.
It was the Model T with the.
With the touch screen, I guess.
And so that was important to me to understand because I do think that there have been some hacks or scripts that can automate the signing function.
(54:08):
And so, yeah, as we fill in the details here, I mean, I think you guys are giving good points.
Did want to say good morning to Rico.
Thanks for joining us from France, but go ahead, BFP.
Yeah, I just want to say you also need to keep up with things.
Just like you prune your garden or you prune your stock portfolio, you know, you have to pay attention to these cold storage devices.
(54:33):
And if something is, you know, hackable, you want to switch to a different cold storage model or, you know, the whole quantum computer nonsense.
You know, if that ever takes hold, you got to pay attention to your net worth or your money.
It's your lifeblood, your time and energy in abstract form.
(54:58):
So that's all.
Yeah, I can second that really quick.
And what's up, Bob?
What's up, everybody on the stage?
Anybody in the audience?
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, Bitcoin's like you have to go to source.
It's a base layer, meaning you have to take responsibility for your finances.
It's as close as you're going to get on an international settlement layer.
(55:21):
So, yeah, I wanted to just say exchanges right now, they're looking to get your Bitcoin.
The rise of wrench attacks, I mean, this is when popularity of Bitcoin adoption is happening.
So, yeah, I reckon everybody should understand that this is responsibility of your own finances.
And it's a new way of thinking.
(55:42):
Bitcoin is literally a new school of thinking.
and a lot of people aren't used to being responsible.
So I think we really need to, and it has to do with everything,
all your actions, all your thoughts, your inputs, your outputs,
like take responsibility.
Yeah, it's, again, we say this stuff when we hear about it,
(56:04):
but it's a big reason why I think a lot of people are afraid to self-custody.
They don't understand how this stuff works,
probably don't have the time to do it and want to make sure they don't make a mistake.
It is sad because, you know, we've been talking about it, right?
Paper Bitcoin summer.
It's not your Bitcoin until you have it in self-custody.
(56:30):
And so we would encourage it.
Just make sure you're doing it in a safe way.
There's great tools out there.
Once you understand the basics, it's not that difficult.
I think the key is that what Rico said, others have said, all along the way, it is, and Texas Toast says this too, it's radical responsibility.
(56:51):
So you really do have to be on your toes.
You have to be thinking about it and continually learning.
BFP, see your hand again, sir.
My bad.
It's not up there.
Sorry.
All right. Before we close out, I'm going to then give us one of these.
(57:12):
But I do want to thank everybody for coming up today.
It was a fun Friday. I know it was kind of a free for all.
We're just kind of kicking around topics, really enjoyed kind of where we went with things.
Maybe not the most exciting Friday, but hey, we're all on the right side of the ground.
(57:36):
And so thankful to have you guys listening.
People come up on stage.
We're, yeah, we're going to do this again next week, 10 a.m. Eastern on Monday.
And as always, thank you guys for coming.
I'm going to hop to another meeting.
So I'm going to close it out with just Sailor here real quick for you guys.
(58:00):
people that use fiat currency as a store of value we call them we core we call them we core
Thank you.
(00:30):
All right. Good morning, everybody. Welcome in. Welcome in. It's Friday.
And we will get it looks like we have a couple of folks who have joined us up on the stage.
My long lost friend Coleman. Thanks for coming up, sir. Neil. Good morning, as always.
(00:55):
Hope to get some of you up here as well.
um but yeah let me wish you a good morning and welcome you to bitcoin veteran spaces number
239 where if you're just joining us we talk about bitcoin my name is bob van kirk i'll be your host
(01:16):
i'm joined by our co-host coleman and it's going to be a great day guys friday august 8th 2025
and let's take a look at the time chain today.
We are at Bitcoin block height, $909,183,
with the Bitcoin price hovering just about around $117,000,
(01:42):
which means you can still pick up 854 sats for each U.S. dollar.
If you haven't gotten off zero yet, please consider doing so, not financial advice.
Yesterday, we got to speak with Rob Warren from Bitcoin Park.
If you missed that one, I think there were a lot of great themes besides talking about the Imagine If Summit coming up in September.
(02:08):
And so, yeah, if you missed it yesterday, please check that one out.
Rob had a lot of great things to say besides just talking about the summit.
If you guys are interested in that one, though, do check out BitcoinPark.com.
Also, not to be outdone, our very own Bitcoin Veterans will be having their second annual summit November 10th and 11th in Nashville in coordination with Bitcoin Park.
(02:36):
And they'll be hosting us.
Day one will be the conference on Monday the 10th.
And then on Veterans Day, there'll be a range day.
So if you're looking to be firing some firearms and getting some training, that would be a great opportunity for that.
If you want to get involved with that, looking for all kinds of folks to volunteer, they're accepting speakers, panel topics, all that stuff.
(03:06):
Go to BitcoinVeterans.org forward slash summit 2025 and get involved.
It should be a great time.
Nashville is pretty nice still usually in November, although we can't promise the weather, but it should be a great time.
So, all right, enough for announcements.
Let's kick off the show by saying good morning once again to Neil and Coleman.
(03:30):
Let's start with Coleman.
How are you doing this morning, sir?
Hey, guys.
Can you hear me?
Yes, you must be lifting heavy things again.
Always, Bob. Always. Yeah, if there's too much background, you know, you should let me know. I'm happy to be up here.
(03:51):
Yeah, thanks for joining. Neil, good morning, sir. How are you today?
Good morning. Yeah, I'm doing really good. I'm actually pretty excited.
I'm going to meet up with some other Bitcoin veterans today in real life for the first time.
So that'll be a fun thing. Perfect. Yeah, that's great.
Always good to do things in real life, for sure.
(04:12):
I think I see some people who usually join us.
I see AC.
If you get a chance, please do come up.
Today is Freedom Tech Friday or Free For All Friday.
We can really talk about anything.
It's been an eventful week.
Lots of things going on.
We've steered clear of a lot of the news this week.
(04:32):
We could head there or we can continue on other topics that we've been touching on this week.
so really guys it is up to you and if you're in the audience and would like you have something
on your mind would like to come up and chat with us use that little microphone button in the bottom
left you can request to come up we'll be nice to you or at least try to be as long as you don't
(04:55):
shitcoin this is a bitcoin only show also you can participate by hitting that little comment
box in the purple pill down in the bottom right of your screen and type your comments questions
and snide remarks. And you can even put in a nice meme in there for us. All right. So maybe we kick
(05:17):
it off with, well, again, you guys can take it anywhere you want. But Trump had a new executive
order yesterday, trying to push the markets to get Bitcoin into 401k plans. And I wonder,
Does this change anything in your guys' mind?
And welcome to the stage as well, BFP.
(05:50):
I didn't have the crickets ready.
Does anybody know about this objective?
I can introduce it.
Go ahead, Coleman.
I'm seeing just an observation.
I see a lot of executive holders coming out of this administration without a lot of, I guess, legal backing on it.
(06:11):
So, yeah, it sounds really good in the short term, but we're going to do quick things.
We have a long-term time horizon.
Really easy the next three years for someone to come with a story to the pen and change back all of these leaders.
yeah so i think i heard what you said coleman a little bit of background noise there but um
(06:33):
yeah it seems like these uh executive orders really are pointing us in a direction doesn't
mean that they will stick around so um i think i caught that anybody else neil thoughts on this
move the needle at all?
Does it give signal to the markets?
(06:54):
BFP, any
thoughts, either of you guys on this one?
Yeah, I mean, I don't
really know if it's
that much signal. I mean,
that's kind of stepping out of my lane
in the more economic stuff, but
I mean, I would imagine that that's
really, if it's going to do anything, if it is
going to move the needle, it's going to be
tapping into just like the passive,
(07:17):
like people's
passive investments. Like although, I mean, so like, I don't even know if that really,
if you're getting indirect passive exposure, because you're just buying some index,
you're just buying some, you know, thing that has exposure. It's like,
you're not really learning anything about Bitcoin at all. So it might make the price,
(07:41):
it might help the price go up, but I don't know if that helps us move the ball in terms of orange
pilling people and getting families like on a Bitcoin standard.
Yeah, I think it's a really good point.
Passive inflows into Bitcoin would be probably one of the biggest things that we'd see out
(08:06):
of it.
But I still think that an executive order doesn't force some of these 401k providers
to allow that.
So, I don't know. I think it's, we'll see. BFP, go ahead, sir.
I think it's going to help the housing market get off its rear end and get moving because it allows a lot of other stuff.
(08:35):
Bitcoin is just going to move by itself.
I think Americans, we live in a bubble because we're hegemonically the captains.
We live on the top of the pyramid with our fiat currency.
And even though they debase us, they debase everyone else worse.
(08:57):
So I think when the world catches on to what's really going on, these velvet shackles,
they're going to wake up and it's going to be
Bitcoin's going to start moving real fast
Yeah, it's
an echo here, I got a phone call, hang on
(09:19):
Yeah, I heard the echo that time
I think the economics
of it are going to be good for his whole plan
to grow us out of the debt, which is kind of absurd,
but that's what Bess and the administration has planned,
(09:44):
is to grow us out of this debt spiral, which is literally impossible.
yeah it's funny because like the way you grow is by just further accelerating the debasement
(10:05):
essentially the rock in the hard place yeah it's yeah it's basically getting more
and more liquidity into the system to where everyone's just, you know, got their foot.
It's kind of like everyone speeding down the Autobahn.
(10:29):
It's just everyone's got to go faster.
And so we're just catapulting ourselves into a faster and faster economy,
which makes all the prices go up and it makes our debt less valuable.
it's like getting
more and more house
so you can have a bigger and bigger mortgage
(10:50):
so the mortgage will get debased quicker
it's just illogical thinking
but that's Keynesianism
whatever you want to call it
I like just saying
it's retarded that works too yeah we were trying to cover for you there Bob me and Neil
(11:18):
did you leave again yeah no I'm back um I do think that
you know we've we've been playing around with this and talking about it kicking
(11:40):
Am I the only one that can't hear Bob?
(12:04):
No, I can't hear him either.
okay i thought i was in a dead spot or something bob we lost you again
you go
(12:36):
This is some serious dead space.
What were you going to say, Neil?
Oh, I was just going to say, I think I picked up your Velvet Chains reference.
(13:02):
Yeah.
We're all just getting, or I'm not really, but people are complacent with the status quo.
And it's changing, right, beneath their feet.
It's shifting.
Yeah, I mean, maybe that's something that ties back into kind of what we were talking about with this executive order.
(13:24):
I do think it does inject pain in different ways.
Like, so even though they're trying to, you know, put some salve on one aspect of, you know, this economy coming apart at the seams, it's like, well, it just, it doesn't alleviate the tension.
(13:48):
It just shifts it somewhere else.
So it's like, you know, there is a level of pain at which people will actually pay attention.
So it's, you know, in some sense, you can think of it as even a good thing.
Like, like they have to, they have to do something and that thing just further accelerates, you know, it just injects more and more force into the seam.
(14:12):
And like, it's going to, it's going to be felt by people in different, different areas of their lives.
It affects the common man a lot different than it does the Wall Street guy.
But I mean, I don't know.
I'm, I'm very bullish on people waking up.
I mean like that I want to orange bill people I want to teach people about Bitcoin And you know so in some sense like the creation of more and more pain
(14:42):
the absurdity that the solutions, you know,
as they keep raising the level of absurdity, you know,
that is just creating opportunity for us to attack and get the message out.
0Yeah, I agree with that. It's so everywhere, like universities or college. It's hilarious how the government has backstopped. 159 00:15:13,1000 --> 00:15:32,580 It's like price controls on your university degree has pushed the price so high that just to go get a university indoctrination hat so you can go work in the licensed professions,
(15:32):
You have to pay or go into debt and be enslaved by a government backstop debt.
And it pushes the price up for everyone.
So it's really absurd how price controls have been proven time and time again that they don't work.
(15:55):
You're muting the signal of supply and demand, and that's what is everywhere.
I mean, medical, you name it. It's just everywhere now.
Yeah. And with the college, the student loans, I mean, you can look at them as usurious.
That's like a different side thing. But just like if you're coming at it from like a free market, like it's not a free market at all because you basically tell all the young kids that they have to go to college if they want to have any chance at success.
(16:29):
0And then the government fully backs and guarantees basically all the loans, which, you know, it's like any time you just inject that much demand into a market, like the colleges, they understand what's going on. 168 00:16:45,1000 --> 00:16:58,200 Like that's like it just feeds the prices that feeds like all the bloat comes from this like false demand that we've created and then enabled.
(16:58):
So it's like, you know, if you return just college back to just a free market where you had to go and fund it normally without some, you know, secondary program, government insured student loan, it's like, you know, maybe prices for a college education would be down.
(17:18):
Maybe colleges actually would have to offer more value to their degrees.
But when everything's paid for and you know that it's guaranteed and they can't escape it, it's just like you don't have to worry about your product.
You don't have to worry about anything, like who you let in.
It's just like you just take anybody.
(17:38):
And that's why, I mean, college is literally a joke.
Just riffing.
yeah I mean it's one of those things where you try to convince people that um this isn't the case
right that like you should not be sending your kids to college and like that seems so foreign
(18:00):
and so strange to some people and it's like well that's the only way that my kids are ever going
to have a future if they go to college and it's like I don't know I you know I have these discussions
with my wife and I have a couple of sons in high school and it's like, we need to beef up on,
um, how to use AI and to think really long and hard about jobs that will be there. Um,
(18:25):
one of my sons is super like hands-on with stuff and just loves to, you know, get dirty and do all
kinds of things. And it's like, um, while I didn't want to become a tradesman, like a plumber or
something like that. I could see where that would be super fulfilling for him and he could actually
get paid to do it. A lot of people don't want to do those jobs, but that is probably better than
(18:49):
going to a four-year school for him to get into huge amounts of debt or expect me to pay for it.
So I don't know. These are just things that we kind of discuss in my household as we're
evaluating the value for the money? Like, what are you getting out of it? And so, Neil, I saw
your hand go up first, and then we'll go to BFB. Yeah, this like, just really ties back into the
(19:14):
whole kind of idea of money. But like, how are you going to create value in the world? Like,
that's the question. It's not like, it's not really so much like what, if you just think like,
oh, I just need to make money. Well, in this fiat world, making money is not, that tether
from creating value has been severed. So making money isn't necessarily meaning you're creating
(19:38):
any value. That's why everybody goes into finance and just, I need to win trades. I need to get good
at extracting from others in these speculative gambles. And it's like, okay, well, that's where
everybody's pushing, but it's like if you get back to basics, back to principles and you have
your kid and you're just like, how are you going to create value in the world? Like if you can
(20:02):
answer that question and pursue that, you'll be set. Like it really doesn't matter what the answer
is, because if you if you are creating value in the world, like that's the stuff that you put into
the money. That's the stuff that you're storing. That's the stuff that actually actualizes your
needs when you trade it back and forth between others.
Like, you know, it's we I really like focusing on the value and not just the stupid monetary
(20:27):
units that, you know, all these games are associated with, because at the end of the
day, the creation of value is real.
When you make something, when you create something, when you provide a service, when you offer
insight, when you could do like anything you're creating in the world, like you're going to
be you're going to be set.
And it's like, I think that should be more so the message for what I'm trying to convey to my kids when they get old enough.
(20:53):
You know, how are you adding value to the world?
Yeah, I truly believe that the tradesmen, whether you're a plumber or you're framing houses or whatever you're doing, welding that.
Well, let's just call them certificates of appreciation.
So what you, you know, take in return for your value, hopefully it's Bitcoin for the people who figure it out, that gap is going to, the gap between what a lawyer makes and a tradesman is going to shrink.
(21:35):
because people are going to realize if I store my certificates of appreciation,
the value I create in this,
then I'm going to catapult myself into a different category.
So I think as it unwinds and more people adopt Bitcoin,
you're going to see the tradesman, his star is going to rise
(21:57):
as the lawyers shrinks or the doctor.
You know, people are going it's going to level the playing field is what I'm saying.
Yeah, we also had TJ and Tomer join us. Tomer, I see your hand. Go ahead, sir. Thanks for coming up.
Hey, good morning, guys. I think just to add to some reflections on what's been said so far.
(22:20):
the whole determination of your identity that you build while you're young,
when you decide what you're passionate about and what you're going to go to school to do
or what you're going to get trained to do, what you're going to start dedicating your time to,
is a really, it becomes a really tall order and very challenging when you have a society
(22:47):
where the value awarded to those things changes dramatically in your lifetime.
So I'll give an example.
My oldest kid loved math, loves math, reads math textbooks for fun,
did a degree in math and computer science,
and finds themselves now unemployed for the first time in their four-year career so far
(23:15):
and having a really hard time finding a job that they want to do
because they're focused on building video games.
And that's like a movie-type industry where you go from job to job,
like project to project.
And all the projects seem to have been canceled in the last year.
And when they were growing up, we never thought,
(23:37):
when my kids were growing up,
we never thought that this one would be the one to have a problem finding a job
because it seemed like computer programming would be endlessly short-staffed and increasing in demand.
But on a similar vein, sorry that I'm taking so long to make this point,
(24:02):
in a similar vein, they're also suffering, like that whole generation.
they're suffering from the good times make for weak men fallacy or not fallacy phenomenon because
during the good times universities lend out money left right and center they get endowments left
(24:28):
right and center from people who were successful and they get sloppy and I think this was one of
the points that was being made when I joined the spaces and so what what value the universities teach
you to create and give back to the world can get quite diminished.
And we went through this whole period, which I think we're still going through, but it
(24:49):
maybe has peaked, where the universities are more about virtue signaling than value creation.
And if you happen to spend your years in university and education and growing up during one of
these periods where you were raised weak, it's very, very hard to...
(25:10):
to have a sane view of the world where you can add value back in.
Like you did everything right by the metrics of the world.
You did what everyone told you to do.
You applied your mind in every way that was presented to you to challenge
and to create value.
And then you find yourself in a world where your skills are not in demand.
(25:35):
And I think that's a big problem right now.
and it's probably going to continue to get bigger.
People talk a lot about AI and automation through robotics
and I think some of that stuff is coming.
We're probably in that early stage of some overreaction to that.
But there's no question that a lot of lives,
(25:57):
a lot of minds have been wasted studying things
that aren't of particularly high value.
And many of those minds aren't aware that those things
aren't of particularly high value
because they were indoctrinated and told that they were of high value.
And so we've got a real big problem on our hands added to the existing problems.
(26:19):
I think it's very hard to figure out what to tell kids to do.
I think it's very hard for kids to figure out what to do nowadays.
So if everybody goes into the trades, there will be an oversupply of trades.
We will say, why do we have 10 plumbers per cap per 100 people?
it's too much. So we're really at a point in time where, I mean, I think what we haven't done is we
(26:46):
haven't cashed in on, I'm sorry for ranting here. We haven't cashed in on all the productivity gains
that we got. We kept the 40 hour work week in place. And we know that it's fake, that that
demand for it is fake. Like many of the office jobs were bullshit jobs. When we went to work at
home for COVID. We realized we don't need to commute to work. And we realized we didn't even
(27:11):
need to do much of the work. Most of us have been unproductive and not generating value. The whole
middle management thing has been a make work exercise. And instead of harvesting those gains
and saying, you know, people only need to work five hours a week or three hours a week,
because we have machines that are doing all the added work.
(27:33):
We've tried to keep people busy,
and the pretense of that has created a tremendous amount of fakery,
and people have become skilled at lying about how busy they are
or how important their unimportant jobs are when they're not busy
and their jobs aren't adding value
because we haven't figured out how to fairly distribute wealth
and let people contribute what their actual value is
(27:55):
and harvest the rest as profits and as free time.
So there's like three or four really convoluted, interrelated ideas in what I just said.
I haven't presented a clear theory as to what the solution is,
but I think a lot of it lies in being honest about harvesting the productivity gains that we actually get
(28:16):
rather than trying to continue to find ways to make tedious employment a lengthy part of our lives
when it doesn't need to be.
tom right i landed there i got two uh children about to be 19 and 18 boys and i'm in the same
boat i don't know what to tell them i always say serve people in a way that makes them want to pay
(28:40):
you that's all i can tell you yeah and and it's hard because like so there's very simple things
that are answers to that like i'll shovel driveways and mow the grass and help little
old ladies cross the street, but that's not going to generate for them the kind of
income, freedom, wealth, value, satisfaction that is their highest potential.
(29:04):
What I been telling young people lately which isn very precise or prescriptive it go with the flow It like know what you want like set yourself some goals in terms of what you want
One kid I was talking to said he wanted to be married by the time he was 30 and wanted to have a good income.
(29:25):
Another one told me that they loved working outdoors and just wanted to find a way to make it outdoors.
and I'm not going to pretend to say, oh, well, then the job you should do is our landscape
architecture or something like this. It is know what you're aiming for and then go with the flow.
And the reason is that's what creates manifestations that are flexible and dynamic.
(29:50):
They're not foolproof, but if you know what you're aiming for, then your subconscious is
constantly on the lookout for saying, oh, this fits with that, that fits with this.
And it doesn't have to be perfectly logical or perfectly deductive.
You can go with the flow and things start to happen.
And I know at times in my life when I've been most distressed about dealing with my long-term future, it hasn't been trying to create a long-term future plan that's detailed, that's worked out for me.
(30:22):
It's been doing what I want to do now and keeping an eye out for opportunities to expand it and improve upon it.
but it's, it's not all like, if you're stressed,
it's very hard to relax enough to go with the flow. So that's,
that's a little bit of the challenge. Take that stress off,
especially if you're a father who can provide for his kids to go with the flow
(30:44):
rather than to do something that they feel is responsible and like,
like going to university and studying law, but something that they hate,
just as an example, you know, if you,
If you can send them off to do something that's going with the flow, letting them live with you for longer or helping support them in some other ways, you may be doing them a bigger favor than helping pay to send them to school for a career that they don't really love or that might not be there by the time they graduate or shortly afterwards.
(31:19):
Yeah, I think that's really important.
I'll let Neil go, but I did want to say, I think our kids on average are probably not taught goal setting.
And so, you know, I really like that point to have people think about the long-term goal in mind.
Like, what are we going after here?
And then filling in the steps that it takes to get there.
(31:42):
Like, kids don't know how to goal set.
So, Neil.
Yeah, just the quick point.
And the quick point, I think, on goal setting is it's not quantitative goals.
it's qualitative goals, right?
Like, you know, or it's directional stuff.
It's not like I want to be making exactly this amount of money
and hold that position and title at a mag seven company
(32:02):
because that's really hard to expect to even exist
at the time that you set that goal for
because you just don't know what's going to exist.
But if you follow your heart rather than follow
what is presented to you by the leading minds of the world,
I think that's a giant shift
(32:23):
because it used to be
very sound advice to say
what are the experts saying
oh the experts are saying you should have a degree in
computer science and get involved
in a start up
it's not necessarily
anywhere near as valuable as it used to be
and it's not because the experts didn't
see it coming
it came really fast
(32:43):
and now they're all experts about why it's not important
but too little too late frankly
yeah uh neil uh you have your hand up sure i think maybe hopefully yeah i was just uh
tomer said something about uh you know like the plumbers like everybody can't be a plumber if
(33:05):
everybody goes in the plumbering you know then it's like that switches you know the dynamics
completely around and it's like that's exactly right like the when you're thinking about
these strategies. It's about getting your principles right. And if you have the principles,
you'll be able to apply them to find the particular solutions. And, you know, so when you see yourself
(33:27):
as this, like, what am I, what are my competencies? What are my, what am I good at? Like, what do I
actually have, like my abilities? And when you're looking out at people, like everybody has needs.
And when you can see people's needs, you know, like applying your potency, your abilities to service those needs, like those are the principles and how that works.
(33:52):
It's like when you think about it that way, it kind of pushes this idea of like even what you kind of want, you know, kind of to the side.
Like, oh, I really wanted to be a barista, you know, or something like that.
But it's like and start my own coffee shop.
It's like, well, if you're in an area where there's, you know, coffee shops on every corner and the market's completely flooded, it's like you either have to like do something, you know, completely above and beyond all of that to establish yourself there.
(34:22):
Or you have to move to a place that's not there or you have to just kind of sacrifice that dream, that want of being this barista and seeing, well, what's not being serviced?
Where's the opportunity?
And if you're seeking and looking for opportunities to insert yourself,
that's the principles that you're trying to analyze the situation.
(34:47):
Each person is in their own unique circumstance,
and they have their own unique set of abilities,
and their experience, everything they're bringing to the table,
they're truly an individual is this unique thing.
And it's like, well, what can you offer the world?
What can you do? And it's, you know, it's finding it's create it's finding those those opportunities and capitalizing on them.
(35:12):
Like that's the thing that's going to do it. So if you say, oh, you just have to if someone asked you a question like that and you hit them with a particular answer,
you're I don't think you're really doing them that service, you know, because even if it's right, it's right accidentally.
You know, it's like if you teach them how to think, how to analyze and look at themselves, self-reflect and then project that out into the world, like it's making there a when there's a what's the right word?
(35:43):
Like when those things correspond, that's prosperity.
you know but if when when they don't correspond and you're providing something that's just not
needed or you just suck like you're not gonna you're not gonna have a good life like if i tried
to be a painter i would be the worst painter in the world no one would buy anything and i would
(36:04):
go hungry like it's just i even if that was my dream like it just that's not the reality of me
like i just i suck so bad at it so it's just kind of uh i don't know i i like focusing on principles
yeah it's a really great topic and you know we have some posts in the um i don't know if it was
(36:28):
the comments or where i was seeing it maybe one of our uh listeners i don't know if you guys
noticed this phenomenon of people throwing things onto the wnba courts but it's uh it's kind of wild
you know we talk about the fourth turning and you know where we're at in that and to have I guess
(36:54):
what you might politely call sex stories being thrown out on a women's basketball professional
basketball court I don't know I heard about that Bob and I thought to myself who's bringing these
things to the game like what well you can bet on it too you can bet on the color like it's uh
(37:15):
it's about as degeny as you can get
crazy times we're living in so we laugh at these things but i think you know if you're
sober-minded you start thinking you zoom out and you say okay sure we can all laugh at that but
really like i mean it brings up all sorts of questions about our society and where things
(37:39):
are at and what we really, you know, what we're really doing. Like, I almost wonder if it's a
PSYOP. I mean, the WNBA hasn't made money in its existence. It's completely subsidized by the NBA.
And you almost wonder, like, how are these things getting through security? Right. And so,
(37:59):
you know, it's funny to talk about, but again, like you start like peeling it back and you start
wondering like is this poly market uh bet that someone could put on it is that manipulated
is uh you know is this just to get more eyeballs on the wnba um like it'll you know if you if you
(38:19):
bet on something like that you're not betting on the game you're not betting on the outcome
you're not betting on the amount of assists the star players are going to have but this is a way
to get viewership if you think about it.
It's like, hey, I bet on this
and now I'm actually interested to see
like what color is going to get thrown out on the court.
Like it's kind of, it is truly insanity
(38:41):
when you really think about it.
So I'll let other people chime in,
but I think it's ridiculous, but it's also something,
like why do we bring it up?
I bring it up because, you know,
it should make you think like what's really going on here.
And, you know, maybe we don't have to spend
a lot of time on it, but it is,
just another signal that things have really broken down in our society.
(39:06):
And so anyway, I've ranted enough, but Neil, I think your hand's up.
Maybe not. Go ahead.
Sorry, my hand wasn't up, but just on your point, Bob, of how do you sneak that in?
I mean, unless they're doing cavity checks, I don't know.
I think that's a good point
(39:30):
what Bob said is you have to really take a step back
and think about what's going on and I think the same
thing goes for Trump and Powell
like is this like WWE are they really at odds with each other
or is this just the whole scheme to make it look like
they're
(39:51):
you know,
you know,
mommy and daddy are fighting,
but in reality it's planned.
This is what they do.
This is their,
uh,
stick as far as,
you know,
what they put out to the world.
And the same thing goes with the WNBA and,
(40:11):
uh,
these,
uh,
green things.
So if you're an ad advertiser,
you know,
someone who is virtue signaling,
because you know you're not really making money off of it,
but you're virtue signaling, supporting the NBA,
advertising to those fans.
And now this is somewhat allowed to go on.
(40:33):
Do you keep advertising?
You're basically complicit, I would say, to some degree.
And so I just wonder, all the stakeholders involved,
are people thinking about this?
Are they excited about it?
Are they, you know, what, I don't really know much about it, to be honest.
(40:54):
I've just seen a bunch of memes and some commentary.
Our friend Coleman posted, better question is,
where are they hiding them to get past security?
Neil kind of mentioned that.
It's funny, but again, like, I don't think security cares.
That's not what they're looking for, at least yet.
Yeah, I don't follow the WNBA,
(41:15):
and I don't even follow the NBA that much anymore, sadly.
But we got some real problems going on, and I feel like, you know, sports and all that.
You know, I am in a fantasy football league coming up,
but I do see the bread and circuses of it all.
(41:37):
So it's a fourth.
I do believe we're in the fourth tourney.
It's pretty evident to me.
So how do we fix it, guys?
What do we – I think Coleman's back up here.
Coleman, I know you're lifting heavy things, but have any fixes for this at all?
(41:59):
That's a step in the right direction.
Can you hear me?
Yep, you sound good.
A little bit of background noise, but we can handle it for now.
I'll make it quick then.
There's going to have to be some pain.
just like with anything if you want to grow
you want to challenge yourself
you want to get out of a rut there's going to be some type of pain
and we've created a society
(42:20):
where we try to limit
any exposure
and any extended duration
with pain
and until we can get over that as a society
we can start pushing each other
and start working through things
instead of taking a pill, trying to take a shortcut
ask for a handout
there's no solution
And so Bitcoin does fix this. It's the system outside the system.
(42:49):
Yeah. And I think our institutions want to continue propping things up.
And so the big question is, how does it all happen? Right.
Like, how does the pain actually occur?
And again, I'm not rooting it on.
I just I mean, I think we can all step back and see it, that there has to be more pain in order for people to wake up and realize like things are broken.
(43:17):
Again, Neil, I'm having trouble with my spaces.
I think I have your hand up, so I'll throw it over to you.
Yeah. Just to answer your question, like how do we move on?
It's like like these are I mean, I laugh at it just because I don't know how else to do it.
I mean, it's just this is clown world. It's absurd.
So just like for me kind of making light of it helps me just keep it in perspective that this is just an absurdity And that absurdity is created from this just a vacuum of meaning You know people lives have been hollowed out They don mean
(43:54):
anything when work doesn't mean anything. They're not creating value. Like that's, that's really how
we anchor ourselves in a meaning. Like we anchor our lives with meaning through that in a lot of
ways, whether that's, you know, working with your family and creating your family and your community
or, you know, your actual job.
But, you know, it's just like that's why DJ, like that's DJ culture.
(44:18):
It's in all its different manifestations, whether it's throwing stuff on the court
or it's, you know, making meme coins or, you know, like I'm not surprised that there's not,
you know, 10, you know, meme coins already about the WNBA's stuff.
Like, you know, just like this meme culture of just DJ is just, you know,
people are searching for anything and everything just to attach any meaning to.
(44:42):
And so it's like, well, what is that?
Going back to earlier, it's like, well, what do people need?
They need meaning.
Like that's the opportunity.
The opportunity is that we have, you know, to attack this big opening is like, hey, if
you can provide anybody with a sense of meaning and purpose in their life and talk to them
about that and get them focusing on the right things like that, that's going to resonate
(45:04):
inside their soul.
Like that will resonate in their heart. That'll resonate in their mind. And it's like and that's essentially what Bitcoin is doing, you know, from this outside way.
You're not directly saying, hey, do you want to have a meaningful, purposeful life? But just that the tiniest ability to just save and protect the value that you create, that that's that preserves a sliver of your human dignity.
(45:34):
and people feel it. And like when, when they feel that, that's what catches their eyes and
gets them moving in that direction. So it's just like, you know, as, as you, as you start,
you know, actualizing that human, your potential human dignity and walking in a dignified manner,
like that's what makes you stand up tall. That was what makes you move through life with,
(45:56):
you know, I don't know, like that. I think that's how that, like, that's the solution.
At the end of the day, when the problem is solved, everybody's doing that.
However it takes us as leaders to not only to walk and carry ourselves in that dignified way, but to actually do so in a way that encourages others to follow suit.
(46:21):
Like, that's why I really like, you know, Bitcoin veterans.
And it's like get on mission and being leaders.
And it's like, you know, getting everybody to come together and start, you know, just
rejecting, you got to reject the degen.
You know, you can't do that.
So I don't know.
The answer is found in, I think, in our human dignity and acting accordingly.
(46:49):
Yeah, those are really good thoughts.
Before the end of the episode, I did want to transition and talk a little bit about this new hack that I heard about yesterday from a gentleman who is in one of the meetups that I go to.
And his brother actually works for Coinbase.
(47:12):
And what we saw essentially is maybe, and this will probably come out, but he called me yesterday afternoon and shared it with me.
said hey i know you work with a lot of people and on self custody and things like that and just wanted
to make you aware um essentially you know we've we've all seen it uh where email address email
(47:33):
addresses get spoofed uh but somehow these hackers have uh infiltrated at least figured out who some
of the contacts are from coinbase employees and have been uh spoofing email addresses sending them
out and saying, you know, I think they're matching them up with Trezor users and they've got those
(47:58):
lists, right? They've got a list of Coinbase users. They've got a list of Trezor users and they've,
they're sending out these emails, phishing emails to say, hey, we know you've connected your Trezor
wallet in the past and there's an issue, there's an error and they've created with AI, they've
created a lot of really convincing content to convince the person that they basically need to
(48:25):
send a transaction. And once the person connects their hardware wallet and they have the attacker
on the phone, the attacker is purporting to be a Coinbase employee. They have an American accent,
Not sure if that's AI or not, but it's an American accent.
(48:47):
And once you connect your Trezor to the computer and you've given the Coinbase rep, I don't know if it's access or they're running some script.
But essentially, once you connect the hardware wallet, it signs a transaction and wipes your wallet.
The person that was attacked actually lost 100 Bitcoin, which, again, these things really surprise me that they're still going on, that people fall for this stuff.
(49:19):
But it is not knowing how things work and also being duped by technology.
And these guys are taking advantage.
So if you've done business on these exchanges, if you've ordered a hardware wallet from companies like Ledger, Trezor, that have been infiltrated, you were on a list as a previous customer.
(49:49):
Beware.
I almost think it's like who wants to be a millionaire if you ever watch that show.
I didn't watch it too much, but I do remember there was this thing where you could phone a friend.
And I just think before you do anything, before you act on any of these things, it'd really be good to get the advice of someone else.
(50:12):
It's almost like out of band authentication, like somebody else who could objectively just look at the situation and be like, no, you're stupid.
Hang up the phone.
Don't call them back.
you know, wipe your computer. You should have your keys protected offline in a air gap device,
(50:35):
not one that you can connect to your computer like a Trezor or a Ledger. And anyway, I just
wanted to tee that up. I know we just have a few minutes left, but I wanted to get your guys'
thoughts and make sure people are aware that this stuff is going on. I don't think we could bring
this stuff up enough because as people listen to this space, you know, we don't want people
(50:59):
to lose all the hard earned sats that they've been stacking and sacrificing for due to some
stupid decision.
And I don't know about you, but a hundred Bitcoin at this point would be life changing
money.
And some people are just trying to get point one Bitcoin, let alone one Bitcoin or 100 Bitcoin.
(51:25):
And so, yeah, I just think that it's a terrible situation.
But again, I wanted to bring it up here at the end.
So people, one, hear what's going on and two, can kind of look out for these scams, no matter how convincing these, you know, screens that might be coming up in front of you.
(51:45):
and how legit, like you don't want to let your guard down,
even if you do think it is an employee of one of these companies that you've
done business with. And so I'll, I'll leave it there.
Maybe Coleman wants to chime in, Neil, BFP,
anybody else here at the end,
we can add you up here to the stage if you hit that microphone button,
would love to kick this around with people for the next like five or so
(52:08):
minutes. And, and then we'll close it out for the week.
I'll go first and say do not use Coinbase.
They're a trash coin casino, and that's just my opinion.
And Ledger and Trezor, I would steer clear.
(52:31):
Go with Seed Center or Cold Card.
Yeah, I mean, it's just like, you know, this emphasizes just the knowledge part
and like understanding what you're doing and getting smart and proficient with everything.
And like if you're, you know, first onboarding and, you know, I don't care how anybody onboards,
(52:54):
if they need to, you know, use some, you know, company, third party to help them get in.
Like I think it's better just to get in at all than just be on the sidelines.
But understanding that like that's like a temporary thing and you need to level up.
You need to get smart and, you know, unless you're prompting things like, I don't know, like I just instantly would just delete it.
(53:22):
Like if it's really important, I mean, they'll actually get, you know, get in touch with you somehow.
But I mean, when you have your stuff in cold storage, like you're not going to get an email saying you need to enter your seed phrase or move your coins or something like that.
(53:42):
Like once you're set up, I mean, you're you're set.
So, yeah, this was an older Trezor.
It was the Model T with the.
With the touch screen, I guess.
And so that was important to me to understand because I do think that there have been some hacks or scripts that can automate the signing function.
(54:08):
And so, yeah, as we fill in the details here, I mean, I think you guys are giving good points.
Did want to say good morning to Rico.
Thanks for joining us from France, but go ahead, BFP.
Yeah, I just want to say you also need to keep up with things.
Just like you prune your garden or you prune your stock portfolio, you know, you have to pay attention to these cold storage devices.
(54:33):
And if something is, you know, hackable, you want to switch to a different cold storage model or, you know, the whole quantum computer nonsense.
You know, if that ever takes hold, you got to pay attention to your net worth or your money.
It's your lifeblood, your time and energy in abstract form.
(54:58):
So that's all.
Yeah, I can second that really quick.
And what's up, Bob?
What's up, everybody on the stage?
Anybody in the audience?
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, Bitcoin's like you have to go to source.
It's a base layer, meaning you have to take responsibility for your finances.
It's as close as you're going to get on an international settlement layer.
(55:21):
So, yeah, I wanted to just say exchanges right now, they're looking to get your Bitcoin.
The rise of wrench attacks, I mean, this is when popularity of Bitcoin adoption is happening.
So, yeah, I reckon everybody should understand that this is responsibility of your own finances.
And it's a new way of thinking.
(55:42):
Bitcoin is literally a new school of thinking.
and a lot of people aren't used to being responsible.
So I think we really need to, and it has to do with everything,
all your actions, all your thoughts, your inputs, your outputs,
like take responsibility.
Yeah, it's, again, we say this stuff when we hear about it,
(56:04):
but it's a big reason why I think a lot of people are afraid to self-custody.
They don't understand how this stuff works,
probably don't have the time to do it and want to make sure they don't make a mistake.
It is sad because, you know, we've been talking about it, right?
Paper Bitcoin summer.
It's not your Bitcoin until you have it in self-custody.
(56:30):
And so we would encourage it.
Just make sure you're doing it in a safe way.
There's great tools out there.
Once you understand the basics, it's not that difficult.
I think the key is that what Rico said, others have said, all along the way, it is, and Texas Toast says this too, it's radical responsibility.
(56:51):
So you really do have to be on your toes.
You have to be thinking about it and continually learning.
BFP, see your hand again, sir.
My bad.
It's not up there.
Sorry.
All right. Before we close out, I'm going to then give us one of these.
(57:12):
But I do want to thank everybody for coming up today.
It was a fun Friday. I know it was kind of a free for all.
We're just kind of kicking around topics, really enjoyed kind of where we went with things.
Maybe not the most exciting Friday, but hey, we're all on the right side of the ground.
(57:36):
And so thankful to have you guys listening.
People come up on stage.
We're, yeah, we're going to do this again next week, 10 a.m. Eastern on Monday.
And as always, thank you guys for coming.
I'm going to hop to another meeting.
So I'm going to close it out with just Sailor here real quick for you guys.
(58:00):
people that use fiat currency as a store of value we call them we core we call them we core
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