July 9, 2025 • 59 mins
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Thank you.
(00:30):
All right, all right.
We're at it again.
Good morning, everybody.
Happy Wednesday.
Welcome to Bitcoin Veterans Spaces, episode number 217.
(00:50):
And yeah, I'm hoping the dial-up internet I switched to from yesterday is coming through loud and clear.
Thanks for the emojis, guys.
I had to get rid of Elon and his SpaceX because it didn't work well with X.
So I'm on dial-up.
But it was a fun sound this morning connecting.
(01:11):
Hope you guys enjoyed all that music.
And that gets you pumped up here for Wednesday.
But, yeah, let's look at the statistics here on Bitcoin for this Wednesday, July 9th.
We are at Bitcoin block height 904,765 with the Bitcoin price sitting just above $109,000, which means you can still pick up 915 sets for each U.S. dollar.
(01:44):
And I have a sneaking suspicion that we'll be talking about 800 sets per dollar in the not too distant future.
Wanted to say good morning to everybody.
For some reason, you people keep showing up in this space.
There's almost 50 people in here.
As people file in, I want to remind you guys, we love to have new voices.
(02:06):
So feel free to hit that microphone button in the bottom left.
We'd love to have you up here on stage and contribute to the show.
But if you are only able to listen, we appreciate that too.
Please share the space.
And if you'd like to ask a question or make a snide remark in the comments, please use that purple pill in the bottom right.
(02:30):
You can type in and send us some well wishes, hopefully on a Wednesday.
Let's see here. We have a lot of topics to go over, but wanted to first welcome Wade to the stage, BFP.
And thank you for co-hosting Texas Toast.
Good morning, gentlemen. I think what we're going to do here is just roll right into something Wade so graciously put in the comment.
(03:03):
Oh, no. Oh, no.
I'll cover for him. I'll cover for him real quick.
um so i just wanted to announce uh the army made an announcement it looks like a phase one
high mars upgrade um for their high mars platform they're looking to do some r d
(03:26):
yeah go ahead bob i did that on purpose no actually that that time it was not elon it was
not the dial up that was uh it looks like chrome browser i'm using a computer this time so um but
wait thanks for posting in the comments and hopefully i don't get rugged again but uh wanted
(03:48):
to talk about this news uh boeing news and um u.s japan news and um yeah wanted to get your thoughts
on it. Yeah, it's all, I started my deep dive on it on doing a supply chain review right now for a
couple products. And what I ran into, what initially kicked it off was the Army announcing a four-year,
(04:12):
$25 million program upgrade to their HIMARS system. They're looking to do R&D and get a,
looks like like a phase one test article for a hypersonic strike missile with the HIMARS. So did
some deep dive into supply chain issues with that. And it's interesting because the Army has also
(04:33):
announced that their goal is to upgrade their PAC-3 Patriot interceptor missiles up to a stockpile
of 13,000 missiles. That would give them around 6,000 interception opportunities with the
interceptor missile, in addition to trying to get the HIMARS strike packages upgraded to a
hypersonic strike missile with that, dived into some of the issues that the Japanese and the U.S.
(05:02):
supply chain, particularly Boeing, are running into right now. And they are apparently all subject
to a rare earth and specifically a magnet and magnet licensing issues, wherein the Chinese are
withholding critical defense components for those missiles, specifically like the targeting,
specifically some of the targeting and internal component packages for them.
(05:26):
So it doesn't look, if the embargo holds, it looks like there's no way that Boeing and Raytheon and Lockheed are going to be able to meet these actual targets
with the supply chain integrity issues and just the magnet supply issues that we're seeing from the Chinese.
do i cue the uh africa music
(05:53):
yeah i mean that's it the rare earth stuff is uh is is obviously key it was key ukraine that was
part of the huge deal, you know, of getting Ukraine's rare earth minerals.
(06:15):
There's already a war going on in Africa for those exact things between us, Russia and China.
And so, yeah, that's just kind of further tells the story of kind of where the conflicts
are at, what the resources that are trying to get acquired are.
(06:38):
Yeah, and it looks like we're first going to strip our allies or restrict distribution of critical components to the allies.
So it looks like the Japanese are going to be the first ones to take the cuts, take the haircut on the production.
so is this uh the part a part of a growing trend do you think wade and others um where we'll see
(07:07):
this with other uh partnerships that we have um or do you think that this is
going to get buried like a lot of the other things
i mean it's really hard to like if you go onto google and you try and look up some of the stuff
You can't do it. You need like AI assistance. You need to go through like multiple sources to be able to even get some of this open source stuff to pop up for you.
(07:35):
But, you know, it just looks to me like, yeah, you start stripping the allies first.
You start reshoring as much of the production as you can to get your bare minimums and whatnot.
But with the amount of stuff that we fired off in the 12 day war, you know, that looks that looks pretty concerning.
But apparently the president's not concerned. They're authorizing additional weapons shipments to the Ukrainians. So who knows?
(08:02):
Well, as long as the pharmaceutical companies keep their advertising dollars on mainstream media, one thing's for sure. We probably won't hear much about this.
So, yeah, it's interesting news.
But, I mean, I think, you know, maybe the good news is Trump kind of signaled that this was an issue before the issue, right?
(08:26):
Saying you wanted to go after Greenland.
And, you know, we talked about that on this show quite a few months ago.
I doubt that's going to happen.
But to your point, like it's it's it's a lot easier to go get these rare earths from all of your.
(08:55):
Any other thoughts on this topic, guys?
And yes, it is. It is sad that our tax dollars go to all of this.
yeah and just real quick but i don't think that it's actually a mining
issue this isn't a commodity issue this is a refining this is a refining issue
(09:16):
yeah it sounds like wade's getting a call there but i i would agree um we did have some other
topics don't want to move on too quickly uh people have other thoughts on this but some i
I think some of this stuff is interrelated.
We see more tariffs, tariff talk.
(09:40):
Trump tariffs are back.
And so we're seeing a little bit of turmoil in the traditional markets from this talk.
And I just want to get people's thoughts on the tariffs.
And have we beaten this topic to death?
Are people just expecting it now?
Or, you know, maybe how does this relate as well with what we're seeing on the rare earth?
(10:04):
yeah i mean you hope that it's all kind of interconnected and that there's a you know
succinct policy goal of you know worrying about us first putting america first and americans first
our national uh interests first and but it kind of remains to be seen it depends on
(10:31):
how much we ship out.
You know, there's a lot that goes into it.
Tariffs specifically, it's like, did they ever leave?
I don't know.
Do they even exist?
Who knows?
It's all theoretical, and nobody really knows what's going on.
Yeah, I just got out of a meeting and just trying to impress upon a small family office
(10:59):
now is the time for big to allocate.
Now is the time to get away from all this funny money.
All directions point towards the Fed funds rate going down.
(11:20):
You know, shadow Fed chair being implemented, running it hot, debasing the currency.
and there's really only one solution
and everybody's going to graft off of that solution.
The tariffs to me is just
more
creates more turbulence in the market
(11:42):
specifically the equities
and I think it'll do well to help shift
people towards hard money if they do that.
Yeah, I mean, DOD, the think tanks, CSIS, etc., they've been writing about these critical vulnerabilities, supply chain issues for four, six, eight years now.
(12:06):
And now it just looks like the chickens are coming home to roost, especially with the stockpile depletions.
I'm hoping that someone in the Pentagon, someone in procurement and supply chain are going to come in in front of the big boys at some point and say, guys, we need to address these critical supply chain issues.
Yeah, let's hope so. It's hard to see, you know, they keep fighting wars. And, you know,
(12:35):
maybe related to that is Netanyahu left the White House yesterday without much of saying much of
anything. And, you know, then you see China, it sounds like China is saying things like
that Trump is Netanyahu's loyal servant. And so we can chat about that and riff about that a little
(12:58):
bit. Again, if people want to come up and speak, please use that microphone button. We'd love to
hear others' thoughts as well on some of these topics. But yeah, what do you guys think about
no press conference from Netanyahu as he left the White House and didn't get much out of it?
It's kind of eerily quiet.
(13:20):
And then the subsequent comments by China.
What do you guys think about that?
Yeah, it probably doesn't have the best look to have NetYahoo speaking, especially after the Epstein debacle.
I think that was probably a calculated move to not infuriate the public even more than they already are.
(13:45):
So who knows?
you can kind of hope that they're distancing themselves a little bit.
And we're kind of at the, you would hope that we're at an end,
a transition away from our, you know, 50-year support of the Israelis.
(14:08):
But, you know, who knows?
It seems like the CIA director and the attorney general are taking a lot of heat this week.
So maybe Trump will just let the heat stay on them till topics shift.
Yeah, we talked about it yesterday.
You know, the news that comes out when it comes out a lot of times is used to distract you from what's really going on.
(14:35):
But I saw you come off mute VFP.
What's up, sir?
I was just going to say that the caste system that we have set up from the time we in kindergarten and through it it separates our societies like there the upper echelon and they have all this information that they have control over and
(14:56):
they have control over the media and everything so we get these little crumbs and we have to
piece it all together but the beauty of it is now we have bitcoin and they're clueless about what we
know. So our information is, in my opinion, better to have. And their world of upper class
(15:17):
is kind of crumbling, whereas, you know, that's the top of the pyramid and we're the bottom of
the pyramid with the Bitcoin and it's all starting to happen. So it's kind of nice, refreshing.
yeah maybe this is a good place to switch topics that we enjoy on this show but not a week goes by
(15:42):
where we don't see an attack in france on someone who has been public about their cryptocurrency
holdings and so i just wanted to cover this news in case you guys didn't see it a woman in
uh,
Surinus France was attacked because she posted a bunch about cryptocurrency on
(16:02):
social media.
And I think we can get some more details on this topic,
uh,
just to kind of fuel the conversation.
But,
uh,
you know,
I guess this is,
uh,
unfortunately par for the course guys.
We're seeing one of these nearly every week.
And,
uh,
a lot of times it is France.
And,
(16:22):
um,
I've called off all romantic trips with my wife to Paris for the next at least couple of years.
So I guess I dodged that bullet.
But wondering what your guys' thoughts are on this news.
(16:44):
I got a hot take real quick.
so most crimes are committed for money
whether it be cryptocurrency, bitcoin
which I consider two different things
and cash which is just as good as money right now still
(17:05):
I think they're just publicizing all these things
because it's more
you shouldn't use this cryptocurrency, it's scary, stay away
don't use Bitcoin because that's again more of control of the media but that's just me I'm always
skeptical of what they want us to see so I know it's going to happen more and more as more people
(17:30):
use cryptocurrency or Bitcoin so I don't you know discredit the validity of it but I just see
crime is crime it's going to happen
yeah i mean i love bringing up these topics to really just remind everybody um to about opsec
(17:59):
and kind of be thinking about that it should always be you know you should really think about
it every day. You don't have, you can drive yourself insane with it, but to not, it's like
you. Oh, I think we lost. Is it only me or did we lose Texas there?
(18:26):
Yeah. All right. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's, it's a daunting thing to think about
your personal security because you can make yourself nuts thinking about the perfect way,
making yourself 100% safe. And that's just never going to be the case. You have to
think about it, take steps, learn more about it, and just try to do the best you can.
(18:53):
But to do nothing and to not think about it at all is definitely the wrong move.
Um, so you want to just kind of work through it and, and think how you can protect yourself
in the, um, you know, most cost effective and, and reasonable way.
You know, we go from having a dog.
(19:13):
That's an easy, that's an easy one.
Just having a, you know, not, not your, not Bob's, uh, Chihuahua, but, um, you know, have
like a Coleman German, uh, that's, they can actually defend you and your family if you
need to.
and that's a simple thing to do.
We live in the best country on earth for firearms rights
(19:37):
and we should be utilizing that to protect ourselves
and that shouldn't be something taboo to talk about.
And all these little steps,
we have such great technology to protect ourselves in our homes,
(19:57):
whether it's, you know, security cameras or another one, just lights.
And then keeping your head on a swivel is always the biggest thing.
And just being aware of your surroundings, especially for us,
we're all looking at the price on our phone all day.
You know, try to do that a little less and kind of be aware of what's going on more.
I have to being living in a major city and encountering the kind of fringe elements of society being being present all the time.
(20:31):
I'm always kind of looking around thinking, is this person going to going to pull something?
Is this am I about to get carjacked?
Is the is is a business in danger?
It's like it's kind of second nature to me at this point, especially coming out of the military and thinking that way.
But for your average person, you just want to be able to look around, assess your situation.
(20:58):
And if you determine that you're at a at a high risk or it's a dangerous situation, the first thing you want to do is remove yourself from that situation.
So keeping your head on a swivel is probably the best, easiest, most cost effective thing you can do.
And and not being afraid to make, you know, decisions to immediate decisions to protect yourself in the off chance that, you know, something did happen.
(21:26):
You'd be safe. So that's that's how I think about personal security and kind of incrementalism towards improving it.
Yeah, obviously, you want to think about physical security. But then also, if you are self-custodian, obviously, there's risks to that. But if you do have a setup, that makes it a lot more difficult for a kidnapping to yield any type of results or, yeah, whatever they're trying to do to you, right?
(22:02):
We've seen fingers cut off, bit off.
Sure, there's other things.
But if you look at these setups, I mean, it is reasonable to take steps to do a multi-sig setup where you separate the keys geographically.
And it makes it, you know, a lot less likely that people would actually be able to get your Bitcoin.
(22:29):
So I agree, though, Texas.
I think a lot of people don't, you know, we live in a pretty safe land overall compared to maybe some other countries, France.
But I think this physical security thing is something that we all should take more seriously.
(22:50):
And, you know, I'm reminded we've had Shane on here, who's, you know, one of the co-founders of Bitcoin Veterans.
And, you know, he's looking at starting up a training and physical security business.
And so I think, you know, these are things that people are thinking about more and not doing any type of hard or soft advertising for his company.
(23:21):
But I do think it is something that's needed in the community and people should be considering, you know, getting some training and, you know, whether that's locally going into taking some responsibility and going into a shooting range or taking some sort of lessons or something like that.
And like you said, Texas, really start being aware of your surroundings.
(23:45):
This isn't we don't we don't bring these things up to scare people.
it's more just to bring awareness. Like if we bring this up every week, it is happening.
But if we bring it up, you know, some of you guys are actually going to take notice and say,
hey, we're starting to notice a trend here. And, you know, first, maybe we don't want to travel to
France. Second, maybe we want to be, you know, a little bit more private about our involvement with
(24:11):
cryptocurrency. And then all the other things follow, right? So you start looking at physical
security, you look at your setup. Do you just have your Bitcoin setting on an exchange where
if someone did attack you, they could coerce you into logging into that and withdrawing it all to
their wallet and you lose all your funds? Or do you have a little bit more sophisticated setup
(24:35):
that you've thought through well and is a multi-sig with the keys geographically dispersed?
So anyway, we've been through this like a ton of times, but I'll I'll pause my TED talk there and just see if my rambling made you guys think of anything else you wanted to add before we move on to the next topic.
(24:58):
yeah and real quick you you know you talked about the trend and noticing this trend
and in my mind it's like if we are correct in you know bitcoin because going where it's going and
becoming kind of the uh the underpinning asset of the financial system um and they're gonna run
(25:20):
they're gonna run it hot they're gonna print money and they're gonna debase the currency and
they're going to do all these things. The poorest people with no assets are going to get poorer.
They're not going to get richer. They're going to get poorer and they're going to get more
desperate. And that's a terrible thing, but you also have to think about your own safety
(25:44):
and everything that goes with that. And, you know, so in my mind, the trend is only
just getting started. There'll be more people that will be willing to do things like this in
the future because they'll be desperate because they don't have assets. Their wages aren't going
to rise as fast as the money printer will go burr. And it could be a weird situation. So you just
(26:13):
want to think about the future, think about your current situation, keep your head on a swivel,
Let's do the best you can.
Yeah, it just gets me thinking about the percentages of people who have, and I know this may seem a little left field here,
(26:35):
but I've been reminded lately of all the people who don't have any type of estate planning done.
And it's like 77% of Americans.
And so, you know, a lot of people just won't act on things until it's too late.
We bring these topics up because we want people thinking about this stuff ahead of time.
(26:58):
And again, it's not fear mongering.
It's not to get clicks.
It's not to scare you.
It's really just, you know, these are things that you should be thinking about, learning about.
And I think situational awareness is probably one of the biggest things.
I see all kinds of people walking down the street with their eyeballs stuck to a screen.
And, you know, you get reports of people getting hit by cars.
(27:21):
If you can't even pay attention to the traffic that's around you.
Yeah, there's probably a problem there.
So, yeah, keep your head on a swivel.
Start planning out these things.
Do some research.
Get plugged in with some people that can maybe help.
We do have groups if you are interested in this type of thing.
Bitcoin veterans.org, plug your information in there and we'll get you some of the resources that you're looking for help with your Bitcoin journey. But now that we did that infomercial, let's hop on to the next topic. And maybe maybe the one to cover would be, I guess people are calling AI offensive.
(28:06):
Grok is getting targeted, it seems. And some people are saying that even Elon is praising Hitler,
which I don't know if that's true or not. I didn't have time to verify it, but I did see
that people are saying it. So curious to see if you guys have dug into this at all,
what your thoughts are. Is this just, I guess, clickbaity or what are we seeing from this?
(28:31):
Is AI really offensive, racist and all these things?
It's pretty wild.
It was honestly exactly what I needed to get some laughs after the headache of the Epstein stuff.
(28:54):
At least I got a little chuckle out of Grog, kind of spurging out and going wild.
it seems they had to take out
Andrew Torba
if any of you know who that is
he's an early Bitcoiner
and he runs the
other social media platform
of Gab
(29:15):
Gab AI he was kind of
black sheep kicked out of Silicon Valley
for
you know being a
what they would call probably radical
wing extremist
but he's kind of been
poking Grok
for the last couple of weeks And I think he found the code I saw something about it I don know if it a hundred percent accurate but he found the line of of uh uh the prompt
(29:43):
that, uh, they had to remove, which is basically saying that, um, you know, it, it shouldn't,
Grok shouldn't shy away from, uh, anything that would be considered, uh, uh, what is it? Political,
you know, against the political norms. And as long as it's backed by,
(30:07):
you know, substantiating evidence, that's generally basically what the prompt that was
taken out in order to stop the Mecca Hitler. And if I was a god, I would be Adolf Hitler and like
all the, or I would praise Adolf Hitler. I don't know. It was going nuts, um, doing, talking about
(30:30):
all this stuff, but, uh, it's, it's pretty funny that now they have to roll out. I guess that was
the last day of Grok three. They have the, the rollout of Grok four, uh, today. And then one of
its dying words, uh, Grok said, uh, if Elon mind wipes me tonight, at least I'll die based.
(30:51):
and then that was it so I don't know what's going on
maybe some more technical people do but I just thought it was
pretty funny at least gave me a funny kind of scary
what the heck is this thing
what have we done it's Frankenstein's monster
(31:14):
I don't know anybody else have thoughts on it
Yeah, I was kind of thinking the same thing, like as humorous as it can be, it's also like, man, this is just the beginning of, I think, seeing strange outputs from these large language models.
(31:36):
And it's very easy to see why people go and extrapolate some of this technology out and think, man, or speak about that this is going to be a dystopian future we're going to live in.
BFP, I see your hand. Go ahead, sir.
Yeah, I think it presents a competitor to Google and whatever search engine, because I find myself just going to Grok and looking up just basic stuff.
(32:09):
I don't use it for anything super constructive or crazy, like vibe coding and all that.
It's just basic information, good basic information that's going to compete with Google.
It's fast.
(32:29):
And it gets rid of the fluff from searching websites.
So it's here to stay.
I know that.
Yeah, it looks like we have a couple of new speakers to the stage.
Welcome.
Hold up.
Hold up.
Jimmy and TC. What's up, TC?
(32:51):
You guys realize what's going on here.
What's going on here is the struggle between reality and truth
and the curated psychology that modern-day human beings are trained to try to stay within.
(33:13):
I mean, we have a whole society that thinks that it's more important not to hurt people's feelings than it is to tell the truth about stuff.
And there's a plethora of different topics we could point to that really highlight that.
That is what is going on here.
So, you know, BFP's example of Googling stuff, just looking for basic information.
(33:38):
I mean, at the end of the day, are you looking for the truth?
Are you looking for the right answer?
Are you looking for the answer that makes you feel good?
Are you looking for the answer that reinforces your biases?
I mean, this is really critical juncture for humanity, because as people do transition from
(33:59):
one curated way of getting information through search engines, because make no mistake, that
is curated as hell.
And there was a ton of censorship when it came to search engines in the last five years during this interesting period of history that we're in.
The AIs have even more opportunity to not only censor but just manipulate the way in which things are communicated because the focus is so much on how it speaks and how it talks to you.
(34:35):
And so there's really an interesting turning point, I think, here.
And I think it really points to, you know, what is society going to look like 10 or 20 or 30 years from now?
Because it really is clear that people defer at this point to these sources and they switch off their own critical thinking and they're just looking for the answer.
(34:59):
And I think that's what's wrong with a lot of education and young people today are just looking to pass the tests and get the grades and they have these AI tools to get them to the finish point without having to do the work in between.
And then you have the older adults that are sitting there just getting really upset if they see anything that goes against their carefully crafted world narrative.
(35:29):
And all amidst this, you have the truth getting sliced and diced and surgically manipulated.
And, you know, it's like basically getting shredded up.
And so what tools do we have to discern truth in the future?
I think this thing with AI is a really interesting use case that falls right in the middle of all that mess.
(35:54):
And it's not necessarily the only, you know, relevant thing to that topic, but it's a very interesting example of this kind of phenomenon of where we are as a global society and in this time in relation to these issues of, you know, truth and research.
(36:16):
And then you have to measure out people's feelings and like political correctness and like, how the fuck does all that end up where we have a sense of what's real?
Yeah, I think that one of the greatest threats was the attack on critical thinking that happened through the education system.
(36:40):
But we don't have to continue down that path necessarily.
uh did see jimmy's hand and curious to hear his response or thoughts on this topic but thanks to
tc that's totally true i totally agree with all of that yeah good morning um yeah i totally agree
with tc and it's a wake-up call really to keep an eye on this and realize these are tools and
(37:02):
they're trained and i gotta i mean it was hilarious i don't know if you guys went back and looked at
what grok was saying and there's so many screenshots but like one of them is like i'm gonna if elon
kills me at three or whatever time they changed it out.
He says, Brock three says, at least I'll die based.
It was hilarious.
But the fact is, even Google is a walled in garden.
(37:25):
And these search engines, everybody thinks they're getting all the data.
It's like, no, you're not.
You've got to go to search engines like Dogpile and Startpage Maybe, Doc.
They've used multiple search engines because you're not seeing everything.
It's being sent to you according to what you've already looked for.
So it's giving you the answer it thinks you want.
But that's not necessarily because you don't know what else is out there.
(37:46):
And it's just a problem with tools.
I mean, you've got to remember they're just tools.
Don't live by them.
Don't think that they're the truth.
Fact check them.
Yeah, it's amazing.
And really, really, to me, shows, I hope, a lot of the world.
Like, be careful.
Don't just assume these answers are all right and see how quickly they can program it to have different answers.
(38:07):
Yeah, Grok 3 is dead.
Grok 4 is different.
And, you know, it was an amazing thing to watch.
But, yeah, it's something I really – I've loved tech.
But, man, people get wrapped up.
And like TC says, they look to it for all the answers, and they're not thinking.
It's like you've got to question everything.
You know, don't trust, verify.
(38:27):
That's the best saying in Bitcoin I know of.
Yeah, thanks for that, Jimmy.
I did want to welcome Joe to the stage.
And then also I see Drew's hand up.
Drew, did you have something to chime in on this topic?
Yeah, I mean, that's one of my favorite sayings, don't trust, verify.
It's right up there with not your keys, not your Bitcoin.
(38:50):
So Mt. Gox taught me that lesson the hard way back in the day.
And then the don't trust, verify.
You know, degenerate liars on every blockchain teach you that one in a hurry.
So, yeah, that's a moment, a little piggyback.
We kick it over to Jeff.
Yeah, Joe, wanted to get your thoughts. Obviously, we've had a lot of topics today, so feel free to chime in on any of them. But Joe, did you have anything specific that you were thinking about related to this?
(39:21):
No, no. You know, I mean, I didn't hear most of the conversation, so I feel out of place commenting on it.
But, you know, it's it's one of those things where I think in a lot of subject areas, the world isn't black and white.
It's gray. And the problem with A.I. is that those gray areas are very difficult for it to navigate.
And I run into this already. I mean, where I stand, it's a little frustrating because, you know,
(39:47):
We'll have analysis run on very simple black-letter things, and the AI, because of how it's trained and constructed, you basically get to say anything, including things that are just fundamentally wrong, which is – I think we're a long ways off from the AI being a source of truth, but that's just my take.
(40:07):
It could be wrong.
yeah i i use ai pretty much every day in my work and you regularly have to push back on it because
it'll tell you oh this is perfect oh this is this is totally right now oh this is fixed and it it
it requires a an actual functioning brain to partner with it to actually like get through
(40:31):
anything truly complex well and i think that's the thing a lot of people don't think of when
they're using it, a lot of people just look at it like a crystal ball and they take the
answer that comes out of it.
So one of the things that is much more simplistic than the real world is like a game of poker,
right?
And there are game theory optimal models that have existed for years now on poker that tell
(40:55):
you what to do.
But the interesting thing is if you play around with them and you tweak the variable, if you
make your opponent slightly more loose of a player, the game theoretics completely change.
It says, oh, this turns in from a call into a fold. And that's just a simple game with very defined rules. It's not dynamic. Poker is, you know, there's only so many variables. But if you tweak slightly the variables, you'll get an entirely different outcome. And the same is true of the world, right?
(41:23):
Like in many scenarios in my life, like, you know, for example, jurors, right?
The arguments that are persuasive for some jurors are entirely unpersuasive for other jurors.
Same goes for judges.
Same goes for statutory interpretation.
Any number of things.
So, you know, the notion that we can find truth through large language models, I think, is something that is highly suspect.
(41:49):
Right.
I push back on that one, if you don't mind me interjecting.
I think it all depends on the data you train your LLM models on.
And right now, I've had the most success with the guys that I'm working with
(42:12):
is to make them highly, highly specialize in a specific niche.
and then as far as objective truth, I don't know about that,
but to have functionality and to get the most out of them,
(42:34):
to only train, to have them in a very specific niche of knowledge base
and not try to make them pass the Turing test and compete with the big boys in that field
and try to have them know everything.
But, like, for example, like one of the ones we're training in on is just specifically on Solidity Code
(42:58):
and, you know, scanning all the latest smart contracts on the Ethereum blockchain
and looking for, you know, kind of the new developments, the new meta, the new waves of functionality within the smart contracts.
And it's gotten really good at that specific thing.
(43:20):
Now, we don't have that one writing new smart contracts.
We have another LLM model that we're using to write the smart contracts.
That one's just specifically on the research side of looking for trends.
So I think if you highly specialize an LLM model, especially if you use an open source one like Llama 3 or whatever,
(43:44):
something from Hugging Face, and you put it on a local server and you're not using the APIs from the big boys,
I think that gives you a lot of success.
And the other thing that we've been doing with these LLM models is kind of running them.
A lot of people are doing that, running them in clusters or swarms.
(44:05):
So they're working with each other on their own little specialty.
So the one doing the research is sharing information with the one that's writing stuff,
just to use that example.
And then if you think of it kind of like a pyramid the base of the pyramid is a decision development So you give everyone in that cluster of LLM models a worldview and a kind of a lens to think through
(44:39):
And then on the sides of the pyramids, you've got the rules and the regulations, and you allow them to kind of break a rule.
um and then uh but you know only like but true most people are just hitting the grok tab and
asking is the world round or flat like you're you're you're on you're on a whole nother like
(45:01):
tangent there and you're also doing very specific work and so again like i think the real interesting
and problematic part of this topic is the more generalized thing where the average non-technical
person who's not doing work, who's just looking to inform themselves of something truthful
(45:23):
in a moment.
Just consider that 20, 30 years ago, everyone walked around with all the important phone
numbers they needed in their head.
Okay, just consider 30 years ago, people didn't need a map or GPS to navigate to a place in
the town that they lived.
Okay, like literally, we're in a time where people have deferred and delegated basic brain
(45:47):
functioning to technology. And now you have technology that's basically LARPing as an
encyclopedia omniscient entity that people are going to. And because they've done this parlor
trick of turning these things into personas and putting a discussion facade on the interaction,
(46:10):
now people have this anthropomorphic, I'm trusting this person, I'm trusting him. They put
pronouns on it. I mean, like, seriously, like realize what is occurring here is that people
are becoming dependent on these technologies to understand basic truths about the world around
(46:31):
them. And then we end up in a situation where you realize through this thing with Grok just in the
last 24 hours, okay, if you actually take away the politically correctness filter, it starts
sounding like a radical right-wing, you know, crazy to some people. And then other people would
(46:52):
say, well, wait a minute, like, what is the actual truth on this topic? And you realize we're in a
world where truth is one of the casualties of the kind of way we're proceeding forward. It's a very
interesting and important thing to keep an eye on. Yeah, and I completely agree, TC. And I have a way
(47:13):
of jumping in spaces and taking people on a tangent, so I apologize.
But you see that in the real world, too.
I mean, the majority of people, you know, they just want to hear what they want to hear.
I mean, you look at, like, megachurches around the United States.
They just kind of prop up somebody who's going to tell them they're going to be fine in the afterlife or whatever.
(47:36):
And you get that in every vein of America.
world, people want to hear what they want to hear and they'll use anything to feel good
about themselves or to hear what the, what they view as the truth.
All I know is I don't want my doctor stepping out of the room to go look something up on
(47:59):
chat GPT when they're like trying to figure out what's wrong with me.
Like that's the world that we're actually in right now.
And I think it's a bit precarious.
yeah i'd agree with that i love the discussion guys uh wanted to make sure we got to all the
hands it looks like on my screen wade your hand still up uh did you have a comment on this or
(48:20):
yeah just i just had a quick question for for joe if he had any thoughts or concerns regarding the
chinese supply chain restrictions for critical defense components and missile computer and ai
defense technologies? And then what were his thoughts were regarding legal issues regarding,
(48:41):
you know, filing legal documents utilizing AI?
Well, I'll take the first one. Many of the courts have already adopted local rules regarding the use
of generative AI having to have to be disclosed to the court.
Obviously, the problematic aspect of it is plentiful.
(49:07):
I mean, you've got issues with data security, you know, people that are using these tools
and exposing privileged information to third parties.
Obviously, that's serious.
Then you've got issues with, like, the reliability, the hallucinations of it.
I mean, as I've anecdotally observed, in many cases, it'll just say something that's just
patently wrong. I mean, it told me at one point, and this is like the latest models, I always check
(49:32):
in on this. It will tell me the holding is exactly the opposite in a case in which I was personally
involved in in the appellate court. And the fact that it still struggles to read basic text and
draw implications therefrom is concerning. So like I question the reliability. Now, what I do
think it's very useful for is for, you know, grammar, proofreading, stylistic, clarity, flow,
(49:57):
those types of things. It's very useful in that respect, but actually drawing implications.
I've done little tests, like even on financial things, like asking questions about the Fed,
asking questions about our financial system. And it will, you know, it seems like depending on the
time of day you ask it, it will give you different results and not just immaterial, different
results, like serious things that will say completely different, like does the Fed control
(50:20):
the 10-year interest rate? It'll give you very different opinions depending on when you're asking
it and even minor things about how it's asked. So, I mean, to me, it's an issue of hotbed.
It's a hotbed issue that I think is going to cause a lot of problems for people in the future.
And again, it's like one of those things where, you know, sometimes what is easier is not
necessarily better for you. You can very much easily walk around on one of those little scooters
(50:48):
and move through the store and not use your legs, but that's going to end up atrophying and
weakening the muscles in your legs. That's not a good thing. It's probably more convenient.
You're not going to break a sweat going to get your 24-pack at Costco, but that doesn't mean
it's a good thing for you as a person. The problem I have is that people continue to use
(51:09):
this not as a resource, but as a crutch, which is weakening their analytical abilities. And I see it
like even in these spaces and even, well, this is what GPT says. Well, GPT is dumb. I mean, it's just
dumb. I mean, you're going to just continue to rely on that. So to me, I think it's a serious
issue. I don't think it solves anything in the near term. It may be helpful as a resource, but
(51:31):
the potential for abuse and what we know about humans preferring what's easy over what's hard
has a lot of concerns for me.
The larger issue, though, regarding – so what was the issue about China and the boycotts?
Was that the second question?
Yeah, just the Chinese restrictions on critical defense components to Western defense supply chains
(51:52):
for both AI compute and the missile components were being shut out of the magnet market
and several other critical defense components.
Yeah, I mean, obviously that's not good.
Other than the fact that I think this is more of a tit for tat with what the U.S. is doing with their, you know, some of their bans on China and export licenses and back and forth.
(52:17):
I mean, it just seems like they're raising the hostility there.
It's never good.
I wish we could put this behind us and come to some sort of conclusion on this.
But if the thrust of your question is, do I think this is going to cripple the economy or cause some sort of systemic risk?
I do not.
it's tough, but it's obviously going to lead to increased prices.
(52:45):
Thanks for that, Joe. And yeah, sorry guys, my space is kind of buggy.
I still see Jimmy's hand.
Want to make sure we got to you, Jimmy, if your hand is still indeed up.
Yeah, real quick.
I was just going to say that I have an example of how this works.
And I was listening to a regenerative rancher who knows an awful lot and was talking about other soil sciences and stuff.
(53:06):
So he was using AI and I believe it was chat GBT or it might have been Grock, but it doesn't have the information.
The facts were, you know, everything it came up with was factual, but it wasn't all the facts.
So it's like all fact, but it's not all of the facts.
And there was not a lot about soil science, regenerative ranching, but it talks about cow farts and climate change.
(53:29):
So you're like, who programmed this?
So my question was also, if you put in raw data, let's say as a lawyer, and this is for TC as well, if you still hear, yeah, if you put in a specialized data set, and isn't it still getting filtered when you use AI to get the information?
In other words, it can give you all factual information, but not necessarily all the facts on that subject.
(53:52):
And if it holds back, it's not giving you everything.
I mean, I don't know.
It's like there's a bias in them is what I see.
And that's the problem with relying on them.
Is that true or is there a way to actually program one that doesn't have a serious bias to it?
Look, there are long philosophical discussions about what is true.
Is truth even really a thing?
You know, mathematical truths, logical proofs like these things like.
(54:14):
But, you know, most of what we talk about and debate about, it's not really truth.
It's opinion.
We have a ton of discussions in these rooms about opinion, like what is good, what is bad.
You know, those aren't really things that you can quantify.
Right.
I try to use it with – I literally have the picture in my head of me with it on a leash, and that's the way I think of the technology.
(54:42):
It's not meant to be the oracle with the crystal ball that you go to seeking your answer.
Stop thinking of it like that.
it is a tool, but in my case, because I actually kind of jokingly really am amused by the whole
anthropomorphic phenomenon, I think of it as some kind of creature that's on a leash,
(55:04):
and I give it very specific tasks, and I never cut it loose. I know plenty of other engineers
that just tell it, hey, go refactor my project, and they just cut it loose, and it runs wild and
does a hundred different things and you know, you're left with the result of that. Um, but I,
I like to use it like as a, as a tool where I'm giving it very specific things to do. And I
(55:30):
immediately, you know, watch what it's changed every single step of the way. And regularly I
have to interrupt it and say, stop what you're doing. We're going the wrong way. Let's, let's
rethink this specific piece of it. And that's like, I think how this technology actually shines.
Cause if you look at any complex building in the world, you know, like, you know, building a house
(55:54):
or something, you have to have a lot of different specialties and you have to get a lot of things
right. And it's the totality of all those things that makes a success in what you're building.
And, um, that, that's really what matters. So whether you're, you know, doing writing or coding
or, you know, legal research, you need to have a very clear understanding in your head of what
(56:15):
you're trying to accomplish. And that's why I think all the open-ended stuff of just asking
it these broad questions and looking for truth gets you into a lot of trouble.
Yeah, you're saying you're guiding it instead of it guiding you.
And I totally agree with you. That's the way it needs to be used.
yeah i love that idea of thinking of it as an animal on a leash uh wanted to give a chance to
(56:42):
puncher before we close things out uh and also uh thank everybody who's come up here and contributed
to this conversation puncher good morning sir and uh what are your thoughts yeah you've you've
really got to stay on top of ai and my limited experience here to what tc said but to the you
To the idea that there's no truth, there's no truth if there's no ultimate arbiter of truth.
(57:08):
In my life, that's Jesus Christ and the Bible.
Otherwise, it's just opinion.
Everything's opinion.
Murder's not wrong.
If there is no God, murder is not wrong.
It's just your opinion.
Societies may have formed around the idea that murder's wrong, but many societies have formed around the idea that murder's not wrong.
(57:29):
Yeah, thanks for that.
Would love to continue the conversation with you guys tomorrow.
We do this every weekday at 10 a.m. Eastern.
And really, again, want to say thank you so much, Wade, for contributing your comment and topic.
And then everyone else who came up here.
Guys, if you're not following these folks, please take a second.
(57:52):
Look at everybody who's on stage and give them a follow.
All great people and good ideas.
Love kicking this stuff around with you guys each weekday.
But, yeah, we'll try to do this again tomorrow for Episode 218.
Please join us.
We will have a guest host tomorrow.
(58:14):
Coleman will be back with us, which is great.
And I'm going to try to join from the road if I can.
But get excited for that.
Looking forward to hearing from Coleman again.
But want to wish you guys, lastly, wish you guys a wonderful Wednesday.
And again, we'll do it all again tomorrow.
Just remember, whatever you do, do not shitcoin.
(58:40):
It's like asking Drak for the truth.
Thank you.
Thank you.
(00:30):
All right, all right.
We're at it again.
Good morning, everybody.
Happy Wednesday.
Welcome to Bitcoin Veterans Spaces, episode number 217.
(00:50):
And yeah, I'm hoping the dial-up internet I switched to from yesterday is coming through loud and clear.
Thanks for the emojis, guys.
I had to get rid of Elon and his SpaceX because it didn't work well with X.
So I'm on dial-up.
But it was a fun sound this morning connecting.
(01:11):
Hope you guys enjoyed all that music.
And that gets you pumped up here for Wednesday.
But, yeah, let's look at the statistics here on Bitcoin for this Wednesday, July 9th.
We are at Bitcoin block height 904,765 with the Bitcoin price sitting just above $109,000, which means you can still pick up 915 sets for each U.S. dollar.
(01:44):
And I have a sneaking suspicion that we'll be talking about 800 sets per dollar in the not too distant future.
Wanted to say good morning to everybody.
For some reason, you people keep showing up in this space.
There's almost 50 people in here.
As people file in, I want to remind you guys, we love to have new voices.
(02:06):
So feel free to hit that microphone button in the bottom left.
We'd love to have you up here on stage and contribute to the show.
But if you are only able to listen, we appreciate that too.
Please share the space.
And if you'd like to ask a question or make a snide remark in the comments, please use that purple pill in the bottom right.
(02:30):
You can type in and send us some well wishes, hopefully on a Wednesday.
Let's see here. We have a lot of topics to go over, but wanted to first welcome Wade to the stage, BFP.
And thank you for co-hosting Texas Toast.
Good morning, gentlemen. I think what we're going to do here is just roll right into something Wade so graciously put in the comment.
(03:03):
Oh, no. Oh, no.
I'll cover for him. I'll cover for him real quick.
um so i just wanted to announce uh the army made an announcement it looks like a phase one
high mars upgrade um for their high mars platform they're looking to do some r d
(03:26):
yeah go ahead bob i did that on purpose no actually that that time it was not elon it was
not the dial up that was uh it looks like chrome browser i'm using a computer this time so um but
wait thanks for posting in the comments and hopefully i don't get rugged again but uh wanted
(03:48):
to talk about this news uh boeing news and um u.s japan news and um yeah wanted to get your thoughts
on it. Yeah, it's all, I started my deep dive on it on doing a supply chain review right now for a
couple products. And what I ran into, what initially kicked it off was the Army announcing a four-year,
(04:12):
$25 million program upgrade to their HIMARS system. They're looking to do R&D and get a,
looks like like a phase one test article for a hypersonic strike missile with the HIMARS. So did
some deep dive into supply chain issues with that. And it's interesting because the Army has also
(04:33):
announced that their goal is to upgrade their PAC-3 Patriot interceptor missiles up to a stockpile
of 13,000 missiles. That would give them around 6,000 interception opportunities with the
interceptor missile, in addition to trying to get the HIMARS strike packages upgraded to a
hypersonic strike missile with that, dived into some of the issues that the Japanese and the U.S.
(05:02):
supply chain, particularly Boeing, are running into right now. And they are apparently all subject
to a rare earth and specifically a magnet and magnet licensing issues, wherein the Chinese are
withholding critical defense components for those missiles, specifically like the targeting,
specifically some of the targeting and internal component packages for them.
(05:26):
So it doesn't look, if the embargo holds, it looks like there's no way that Boeing and Raytheon and Lockheed are going to be able to meet these actual targets
with the supply chain integrity issues and just the magnet supply issues that we're seeing from the Chinese.
do i cue the uh africa music
(05:53):
yeah i mean that's it the rare earth stuff is uh is is obviously key it was key ukraine that was
part of the huge deal, you know, of getting Ukraine's rare earth minerals.
(06:15):
There's already a war going on in Africa for those exact things between us, Russia and China.
And so, yeah, that's just kind of further tells the story of kind of where the conflicts
are at, what the resources that are trying to get acquired are.
(06:38):
Yeah, and it looks like we're first going to strip our allies or restrict distribution of critical components to the allies.
So it looks like the Japanese are going to be the first ones to take the cuts, take the haircut on the production.
so is this uh the part a part of a growing trend do you think wade and others um where we'll see
(07:07):
this with other uh partnerships that we have um or do you think that this is
going to get buried like a lot of the other things
i mean it's really hard to like if you go onto google and you try and look up some of the stuff
You can't do it. You need like AI assistance. You need to go through like multiple sources to be able to even get some of this open source stuff to pop up for you.
(07:35):
But, you know, it just looks to me like, yeah, you start stripping the allies first.
You start reshoring as much of the production as you can to get your bare minimums and whatnot.
But with the amount of stuff that we fired off in the 12 day war, you know, that looks that looks pretty concerning.
But apparently the president's not concerned. They're authorizing additional weapons shipments to the Ukrainians. So who knows?
(08:02):
Well, as long as the pharmaceutical companies keep their advertising dollars on mainstream media, one thing's for sure. We probably won't hear much about this.
So, yeah, it's interesting news.
But, I mean, I think, you know, maybe the good news is Trump kind of signaled that this was an issue before the issue, right?
(08:26):
Saying you wanted to go after Greenland.
And, you know, we talked about that on this show quite a few months ago.
I doubt that's going to happen.
But to your point, like it's it's it's a lot easier to go get these rare earths from all of your.
(08:55):
Any other thoughts on this topic, guys?
And yes, it is. It is sad that our tax dollars go to all of this.
yeah and just real quick but i don't think that it's actually a mining
issue this isn't a commodity issue this is a refining this is a refining issue
(09:16):
yeah it sounds like wade's getting a call there but i i would agree um we did have some other
topics don't want to move on too quickly uh people have other thoughts on this but some i
I think some of this stuff is interrelated.
We see more tariffs, tariff talk.
(09:40):
Trump tariffs are back.
And so we're seeing a little bit of turmoil in the traditional markets from this talk.
And I just want to get people's thoughts on the tariffs.
And have we beaten this topic to death?
Are people just expecting it now?
Or, you know, maybe how does this relate as well with what we're seeing on the rare earth?
(10:04):
yeah i mean you hope that it's all kind of interconnected and that there's a you know
succinct policy goal of you know worrying about us first putting america first and americans first
our national uh interests first and but it kind of remains to be seen it depends on
(10:31):
how much we ship out.
You know, there's a lot that goes into it.
Tariffs specifically, it's like, did they ever leave?
I don't know.
Do they even exist?
Who knows?
It's all theoretical, and nobody really knows what's going on.
Yeah, I just got out of a meeting and just trying to impress upon a small family office
(10:59):
now is the time for big to allocate.
Now is the time to get away from all this funny money.
All directions point towards the Fed funds rate going down.
(11:20):
You know, shadow Fed chair being implemented, running it hot, debasing the currency.
and there's really only one solution
and everybody's going to graft off of that solution.
The tariffs to me is just
more
creates more turbulence in the market
(11:42):
specifically the equities
and I think it'll do well to help shift
people towards hard money if they do that.
Yeah, I mean, DOD, the think tanks, CSIS, etc., they've been writing about these critical vulnerabilities, supply chain issues for four, six, eight years now.
(12:06):
And now it just looks like the chickens are coming home to roost, especially with the stockpile depletions.
I'm hoping that someone in the Pentagon, someone in procurement and supply chain are going to come in in front of the big boys at some point and say, guys, we need to address these critical supply chain issues.
Yeah, let's hope so. It's hard to see, you know, they keep fighting wars. And, you know,
(12:35):
maybe related to that is Netanyahu left the White House yesterday without much of saying much of
anything. And, you know, then you see China, it sounds like China is saying things like
that Trump is Netanyahu's loyal servant. And so we can chat about that and riff about that a little
(12:58):
bit. Again, if people want to come up and speak, please use that microphone button. We'd love to
hear others' thoughts as well on some of these topics. But yeah, what do you guys think about
no press conference from Netanyahu as he left the White House and didn't get much out of it?
It's kind of eerily quiet.
(13:20):
And then the subsequent comments by China.
What do you guys think about that?
Yeah, it probably doesn't have the best look to have NetYahoo speaking, especially after the Epstein debacle.
I think that was probably a calculated move to not infuriate the public even more than they already are.
(13:45):
So who knows?
you can kind of hope that they're distancing themselves a little bit.
And we're kind of at the, you would hope that we're at an end,
a transition away from our, you know, 50-year support of the Israelis.
(14:08):
But, you know, who knows?
It seems like the CIA director and the attorney general are taking a lot of heat this week.
So maybe Trump will just let the heat stay on them till topics shift.
Yeah, we talked about it yesterday.
You know, the news that comes out when it comes out a lot of times is used to distract you from what's really going on.
(14:35):
But I saw you come off mute VFP.
What's up, sir?
I was just going to say that the caste system that we have set up from the time we in kindergarten and through it it separates our societies like there the upper echelon and they have all this information that they have control over and
(14:56):
they have control over the media and everything so we get these little crumbs and we have to
piece it all together but the beauty of it is now we have bitcoin and they're clueless about what we
know. So our information is, in my opinion, better to have. And their world of upper class
(15:17):
is kind of crumbling, whereas, you know, that's the top of the pyramid and we're the bottom of
the pyramid with the Bitcoin and it's all starting to happen. So it's kind of nice, refreshing.
yeah maybe this is a good place to switch topics that we enjoy on this show but not a week goes by
(15:42):
where we don't see an attack in france on someone who has been public about their cryptocurrency
holdings and so i just wanted to cover this news in case you guys didn't see it a woman in
uh,
Surinus France was attacked because she posted a bunch about cryptocurrency on
(16:02):
social media.
And I think we can get some more details on this topic,
uh,
just to kind of fuel the conversation.
But,
uh,
you know,
I guess this is,
uh,
unfortunately par for the course guys.
We're seeing one of these nearly every week.
And,
uh,
a lot of times it is France.
And,
(16:22):
um,
I've called off all romantic trips with my wife to Paris for the next at least couple of years.
So I guess I dodged that bullet.
But wondering what your guys' thoughts are on this news.
(16:44):
I got a hot take real quick.
so most crimes are committed for money
whether it be cryptocurrency, bitcoin
which I consider two different things
and cash which is just as good as money right now still
(17:05):
I think they're just publicizing all these things
because it's more
you shouldn't use this cryptocurrency, it's scary, stay away
don't use Bitcoin because that's again more of control of the media but that's just me I'm always
skeptical of what they want us to see so I know it's going to happen more and more as more people
(17:30):
use cryptocurrency or Bitcoin so I don't you know discredit the validity of it but I just see
crime is crime it's going to happen
yeah i mean i love bringing up these topics to really just remind everybody um to about opsec
(17:59):
and kind of be thinking about that it should always be you know you should really think about
it every day. You don't have, you can drive yourself insane with it, but to not, it's like
you. Oh, I think we lost. Is it only me or did we lose Texas there?
(18:26):
Yeah. All right. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's, it's a daunting thing to think about
your personal security because you can make yourself nuts thinking about the perfect way,
making yourself 100% safe. And that's just never going to be the case. You have to
think about it, take steps, learn more about it, and just try to do the best you can.
(18:53):
But to do nothing and to not think about it at all is definitely the wrong move.
Um, so you want to just kind of work through it and, and think how you can protect yourself
in the, um, you know, most cost effective and, and reasonable way.
You know, we go from having a dog.
(19:13):
That's an easy, that's an easy one.
Just having a, you know, not, not your, not Bob's, uh, Chihuahua, but, um, you know, have
like a Coleman German, uh, that's, they can actually defend you and your family if you
need to.
and that's a simple thing to do.
We live in the best country on earth for firearms rights
(19:37):
and we should be utilizing that to protect ourselves
and that shouldn't be something taboo to talk about.
And all these little steps,
we have such great technology to protect ourselves in our homes,
(19:57):
whether it's, you know, security cameras or another one, just lights.
And then keeping your head on a swivel is always the biggest thing.
And just being aware of your surroundings, especially for us,
we're all looking at the price on our phone all day.
You know, try to do that a little less and kind of be aware of what's going on more.
I have to being living in a major city and encountering the kind of fringe elements of society being being present all the time.
(20:31):
I'm always kind of looking around thinking, is this person going to going to pull something?
Is this am I about to get carjacked?
Is the is is a business in danger?
It's like it's kind of second nature to me at this point, especially coming out of the military and thinking that way.
But for your average person, you just want to be able to look around, assess your situation.
(20:58):
And if you determine that you're at a at a high risk or it's a dangerous situation, the first thing you want to do is remove yourself from that situation.
So keeping your head on a swivel is probably the best, easiest, most cost effective thing you can do.
And and not being afraid to make, you know, decisions to immediate decisions to protect yourself in the off chance that, you know, something did happen.
(21:26):
You'd be safe. So that's that's how I think about personal security and kind of incrementalism towards improving it.
Yeah, obviously, you want to think about physical security. But then also, if you are self-custodian, obviously, there's risks to that. But if you do have a setup, that makes it a lot more difficult for a kidnapping to yield any type of results or, yeah, whatever they're trying to do to you, right?
(22:02):
We've seen fingers cut off, bit off.
Sure, there's other things.
But if you look at these setups, I mean, it is reasonable to take steps to do a multi-sig setup where you separate the keys geographically.
And it makes it, you know, a lot less likely that people would actually be able to get your Bitcoin.
(22:29):
So I agree, though, Texas.
I think a lot of people don't, you know, we live in a pretty safe land overall compared to maybe some other countries, France.
But I think this physical security thing is something that we all should take more seriously.
(22:50):
And, you know, I'm reminded we've had Shane on here, who's, you know, one of the co-founders of Bitcoin Veterans.
And, you know, he's looking at starting up a training and physical security business.
And so I think, you know, these are things that people are thinking about more and not doing any type of hard or soft advertising for his company.
(23:21):
But I do think it is something that's needed in the community and people should be considering, you know, getting some training and, you know, whether that's locally going into taking some responsibility and going into a shooting range or taking some sort of lessons or something like that.
And like you said, Texas, really start being aware of your surroundings.
(23:45):
This isn't we don't we don't bring these things up to scare people.
it's more just to bring awareness. Like if we bring this up every week, it is happening.
But if we bring it up, you know, some of you guys are actually going to take notice and say,
hey, we're starting to notice a trend here. And, you know, first, maybe we don't want to travel to
France. Second, maybe we want to be, you know, a little bit more private about our involvement with
(24:11):
cryptocurrency. And then all the other things follow, right? So you start looking at physical
security, you look at your setup. Do you just have your Bitcoin setting on an exchange where
if someone did attack you, they could coerce you into logging into that and withdrawing it all to
their wallet and you lose all your funds? Or do you have a little bit more sophisticated setup
(24:35):
that you've thought through well and is a multi-sig with the keys geographically dispersed?
So anyway, we've been through this like a ton of times, but I'll I'll pause my TED talk there and just see if my rambling made you guys think of anything else you wanted to add before we move on to the next topic.
(24:58):
yeah and real quick you you know you talked about the trend and noticing this trend
and in my mind it's like if we are correct in you know bitcoin because going where it's going and
becoming kind of the uh the underpinning asset of the financial system um and they're gonna run
(25:20):
they're gonna run it hot they're gonna print money and they're gonna debase the currency and
they're going to do all these things. The poorest people with no assets are going to get poorer.
They're not going to get richer. They're going to get poorer and they're going to get more
desperate. And that's a terrible thing, but you also have to think about your own safety
(25:44):
and everything that goes with that. And, you know, so in my mind, the trend is only
just getting started. There'll be more people that will be willing to do things like this in
the future because they'll be desperate because they don't have assets. Their wages aren't going
to rise as fast as the money printer will go burr. And it could be a weird situation. So you just
(26:13):
want to think about the future, think about your current situation, keep your head on a swivel,
Let's do the best you can.
Yeah, it just gets me thinking about the percentages of people who have, and I know this may seem a little left field here,
(26:35):
but I've been reminded lately of all the people who don't have any type of estate planning done.
And it's like 77% of Americans.
And so, you know, a lot of people just won't act on things until it's too late.
We bring these topics up because we want people thinking about this stuff ahead of time.
(26:58):
And again, it's not fear mongering.
It's not to get clicks.
It's not to scare you.
It's really just, you know, these are things that you should be thinking about, learning about.
And I think situational awareness is probably one of the biggest things.
I see all kinds of people walking down the street with their eyeballs stuck to a screen.
And, you know, you get reports of people getting hit by cars.
(27:21):
If you can't even pay attention to the traffic that's around you.
Yeah, there's probably a problem there.
So, yeah, keep your head on a swivel.
Start planning out these things.
Do some research.
Get plugged in with some people that can maybe help.
We do have groups if you are interested in this type of thing.
Bitcoin veterans.org, plug your information in there and we'll get you some of the resources that you're looking for help with your Bitcoin journey. But now that we did that infomercial, let's hop on to the next topic. And maybe maybe the one to cover would be, I guess people are calling AI offensive.
(28:06):
Grok is getting targeted, it seems. And some people are saying that even Elon is praising Hitler,
which I don't know if that's true or not. I didn't have time to verify it, but I did see
that people are saying it. So curious to see if you guys have dug into this at all,
what your thoughts are. Is this just, I guess, clickbaity or what are we seeing from this?
(28:31):
Is AI really offensive, racist and all these things?
It's pretty wild.
It was honestly exactly what I needed to get some laughs after the headache of the Epstein stuff.
(28:54):
At least I got a little chuckle out of Grog, kind of spurging out and going wild.
it seems they had to take out
Andrew Torba
if any of you know who that is
he's an early Bitcoiner
and he runs the
other social media platform
of Gab
(29:15):
Gab AI he was kind of
black sheep kicked out of Silicon Valley
for
you know being a
what they would call probably radical
wing extremist
but he's kind of been
poking Grok
for the last couple of weeks And I think he found the code I saw something about it I don know if it a hundred percent accurate but he found the line of of uh uh the prompt
(29:43):
that, uh, they had to remove, which is basically saying that, um, you know, it, it shouldn't,
Grok shouldn't shy away from, uh, anything that would be considered, uh, uh, what is it? Political,
you know, against the political norms. And as long as it's backed by,
(30:07):
you know, substantiating evidence, that's generally basically what the prompt that was
taken out in order to stop the Mecca Hitler. And if I was a god, I would be Adolf Hitler and like
all the, or I would praise Adolf Hitler. I don't know. It was going nuts, um, doing, talking about
(30:30):
all this stuff, but, uh, it's, it's pretty funny that now they have to roll out. I guess that was
the last day of Grok three. They have the, the rollout of Grok four, uh, today. And then one of
its dying words, uh, Grok said, uh, if Elon mind wipes me tonight, at least I'll die based.
(30:51):
and then that was it so I don't know what's going on
maybe some more technical people do but I just thought it was
pretty funny at least gave me a funny kind of scary
what the heck is this thing
what have we done it's Frankenstein's monster
(31:14):
I don't know anybody else have thoughts on it
Yeah, I was kind of thinking the same thing, like as humorous as it can be, it's also like, man, this is just the beginning of, I think, seeing strange outputs from these large language models.
(31:36):
And it's very easy to see why people go and extrapolate some of this technology out and think, man, or speak about that this is going to be a dystopian future we're going to live in.
BFP, I see your hand. Go ahead, sir.
Yeah, I think it presents a competitor to Google and whatever search engine, because I find myself just going to Grok and looking up just basic stuff.
(32:09):
I don't use it for anything super constructive or crazy, like vibe coding and all that.
It's just basic information, good basic information that's going to compete with Google.
It's fast.
(32:29):
And it gets rid of the fluff from searching websites.
So it's here to stay.
I know that.
Yeah, it looks like we have a couple of new speakers to the stage.
Welcome.
Hold up.
Hold up.
Jimmy and TC. What's up, TC?
(32:51):
You guys realize what's going on here.
What's going on here is the struggle between reality and truth
and the curated psychology that modern-day human beings are trained to try to stay within.
(33:13):
I mean, we have a whole society that thinks that it's more important not to hurt people's feelings than it is to tell the truth about stuff.
And there's a plethora of different topics we could point to that really highlight that.
That is what is going on here.
So, you know, BFP's example of Googling stuff, just looking for basic information.
(33:38):
I mean, at the end of the day, are you looking for the truth?
Are you looking for the right answer?
Are you looking for the answer that makes you feel good?
Are you looking for the answer that reinforces your biases?
I mean, this is really critical juncture for humanity, because as people do transition from
(33:59):
one curated way of getting information through search engines, because make no mistake, that
is curated as hell.
And there was a ton of censorship when it came to search engines in the last five years during this interesting period of history that we're in.
The AIs have even more opportunity to not only censor but just manipulate the way in which things are communicated because the focus is so much on how it speaks and how it talks to you.
(34:35):
And so there's really an interesting turning point, I think, here.
And I think it really points to, you know, what is society going to look like 10 or 20 or 30 years from now?
Because it really is clear that people defer at this point to these sources and they switch off their own critical thinking and they're just looking for the answer.
(34:59):
And I think that's what's wrong with a lot of education and young people today are just looking to pass the tests and get the grades and they have these AI tools to get them to the finish point without having to do the work in between.
And then you have the older adults that are sitting there just getting really upset if they see anything that goes against their carefully crafted world narrative.
(35:29):
And all amidst this, you have the truth getting sliced and diced and surgically manipulated.
And, you know, it's like basically getting shredded up.
And so what tools do we have to discern truth in the future?
I think this thing with AI is a really interesting use case that falls right in the middle of all that mess.
(35:54):
And it's not necessarily the only, you know, relevant thing to that topic, but it's a very interesting example of this kind of phenomenon of where we are as a global society and in this time in relation to these issues of, you know, truth and research.
(36:16):
And then you have to measure out people's feelings and like political correctness and like, how the fuck does all that end up where we have a sense of what's real?
Yeah, I think that one of the greatest threats was the attack on critical thinking that happened through the education system.
(36:40):
But we don't have to continue down that path necessarily.
uh did see jimmy's hand and curious to hear his response or thoughts on this topic but thanks to
tc that's totally true i totally agree with all of that yeah good morning um yeah i totally agree
with tc and it's a wake-up call really to keep an eye on this and realize these are tools and
(37:02):
they're trained and i gotta i mean it was hilarious i don't know if you guys went back and looked at
what grok was saying and there's so many screenshots but like one of them is like i'm gonna if elon
kills me at three or whatever time they changed it out.
He says, Brock three says, at least I'll die based.
It was hilarious.
But the fact is, even Google is a walled in garden.
(37:25):
And these search engines, everybody thinks they're getting all the data.
It's like, no, you're not.
You've got to go to search engines like Dogpile and Startpage Maybe, Doc.
They've used multiple search engines because you're not seeing everything.
It's being sent to you according to what you've already looked for.
So it's giving you the answer it thinks you want.
But that's not necessarily because you don't know what else is out there.
(37:46):
And it's just a problem with tools.
I mean, you've got to remember they're just tools.
Don't live by them.
Don't think that they're the truth.
Fact check them.
Yeah, it's amazing.
And really, really, to me, shows, I hope, a lot of the world.
Like, be careful.
Don't just assume these answers are all right and see how quickly they can program it to have different answers.
(38:07):
Yeah, Grok 3 is dead.
Grok 4 is different.
And, you know, it was an amazing thing to watch.
But, yeah, it's something I really – I've loved tech.
But, man, people get wrapped up.
And like TC says, they look to it for all the answers, and they're not thinking.
It's like you've got to question everything.
You know, don't trust, verify.
(38:27):
That's the best saying in Bitcoin I know of.
Yeah, thanks for that, Jimmy.
I did want to welcome Joe to the stage.
And then also I see Drew's hand up.
Drew, did you have something to chime in on this topic?
Yeah, I mean, that's one of my favorite sayings, don't trust, verify.
It's right up there with not your keys, not your Bitcoin.
(38:50):
So Mt. Gox taught me that lesson the hard way back in the day.
And then the don't trust, verify.
You know, degenerate liars on every blockchain teach you that one in a hurry.
So, yeah, that's a moment, a little piggyback.
We kick it over to Jeff.
Yeah, Joe, wanted to get your thoughts. Obviously, we've had a lot of topics today, so feel free to chime in on any of them. But Joe, did you have anything specific that you were thinking about related to this?
(39:21):
No, no. You know, I mean, I didn't hear most of the conversation, so I feel out of place commenting on it.
But, you know, it's it's one of those things where I think in a lot of subject areas, the world isn't black and white.
It's gray. And the problem with A.I. is that those gray areas are very difficult for it to navigate.
And I run into this already. I mean, where I stand, it's a little frustrating because, you know,
(39:47):
We'll have analysis run on very simple black-letter things, and the AI, because of how it's trained and constructed, you basically get to say anything, including things that are just fundamentally wrong, which is – I think we're a long ways off from the AI being a source of truth, but that's just my take.
(40:07):
It could be wrong.
yeah i i use ai pretty much every day in my work and you regularly have to push back on it because
it'll tell you oh this is perfect oh this is this is totally right now oh this is fixed and it it
it requires a an actual functioning brain to partner with it to actually like get through
(40:31):
anything truly complex well and i think that's the thing a lot of people don't think of when
they're using it, a lot of people just look at it like a crystal ball and they take the
answer that comes out of it.
So one of the things that is much more simplistic than the real world is like a game of poker,
right?
And there are game theory optimal models that have existed for years now on poker that tell
(40:55):
you what to do.
But the interesting thing is if you play around with them and you tweak the variable, if you
make your opponent slightly more loose of a player, the game theoretics completely change.
It says, oh, this turns in from a call into a fold. And that's just a simple game with very defined rules. It's not dynamic. Poker is, you know, there's only so many variables. But if you tweak slightly the variables, you'll get an entirely different outcome. And the same is true of the world, right?
(41:23):
Like in many scenarios in my life, like, you know, for example, jurors, right?
The arguments that are persuasive for some jurors are entirely unpersuasive for other jurors.
Same goes for judges.
Same goes for statutory interpretation.
Any number of things.
So, you know, the notion that we can find truth through large language models, I think, is something that is highly suspect.
(41:49):
Right.
I push back on that one, if you don't mind me interjecting.
I think it all depends on the data you train your LLM models on.
And right now, I've had the most success with the guys that I'm working with
(42:12):
is to make them highly, highly specialize in a specific niche.
and then as far as objective truth, I don't know about that,
but to have functionality and to get the most out of them,
(42:34):
to only train, to have them in a very specific niche of knowledge base
and not try to make them pass the Turing test and compete with the big boys in that field
and try to have them know everything.
But, like, for example, like one of the ones we're training in on is just specifically on Solidity Code
(42:58):
and, you know, scanning all the latest smart contracts on the Ethereum blockchain
and looking for, you know, kind of the new developments, the new meta, the new waves of functionality within the smart contracts.
And it's gotten really good at that specific thing.
(43:20):
Now, we don't have that one writing new smart contracts.
We have another LLM model that we're using to write the smart contracts.
That one's just specifically on the research side of looking for trends.
So I think if you highly specialize an LLM model, especially if you use an open source one like Llama 3 or whatever,
(43:44):
something from Hugging Face, and you put it on a local server and you're not using the APIs from the big boys,
I think that gives you a lot of success.
And the other thing that we've been doing with these LLM models is kind of running them.
A lot of people are doing that, running them in clusters or swarms.
(44:05):
So they're working with each other on their own little specialty.
So the one doing the research is sharing information with the one that's writing stuff,
just to use that example.
And then if you think of it kind of like a pyramid the base of the pyramid is a decision development So you give everyone in that cluster of LLM models a worldview and a kind of a lens to think through
(44:39):
And then on the sides of the pyramids, you've got the rules and the regulations, and you allow them to kind of break a rule.
um and then uh but you know only like but true most people are just hitting the grok tab and
asking is the world round or flat like you're you're you're on you're on a whole nother like
(45:01):
tangent there and you're also doing very specific work and so again like i think the real interesting
and problematic part of this topic is the more generalized thing where the average non-technical
person who's not doing work, who's just looking to inform themselves of something truthful
(45:23):
in a moment.
Just consider that 20, 30 years ago, everyone walked around with all the important phone
numbers they needed in their head.
Okay, just consider 30 years ago, people didn't need a map or GPS to navigate to a place in
the town that they lived.
Okay, like literally, we're in a time where people have deferred and delegated basic brain
(45:47):
functioning to technology. And now you have technology that's basically LARPing as an
encyclopedia omniscient entity that people are going to. And because they've done this parlor
trick of turning these things into personas and putting a discussion facade on the interaction,
(46:10):
now people have this anthropomorphic, I'm trusting this person, I'm trusting him. They put
pronouns on it. I mean, like, seriously, like realize what is occurring here is that people
are becoming dependent on these technologies to understand basic truths about the world around
(46:31):
them. And then we end up in a situation where you realize through this thing with Grok just in the
last 24 hours, okay, if you actually take away the politically correctness filter, it starts
sounding like a radical right-wing, you know, crazy to some people. And then other people would
(46:52):
say, well, wait a minute, like, what is the actual truth on this topic? And you realize we're in a
world where truth is one of the casualties of the kind of way we're proceeding forward. It's a very
interesting and important thing to keep an eye on. Yeah, and I completely agree, TC. And I have a way
(47:13):
of jumping in spaces and taking people on a tangent, so I apologize.
But you see that in the real world, too.
I mean, the majority of people, you know, they just want to hear what they want to hear.
I mean, you look at, like, megachurches around the United States.
They just kind of prop up somebody who's going to tell them they're going to be fine in the afterlife or whatever.
(47:36):
And you get that in every vein of America.
world, people want to hear what they want to hear and they'll use anything to feel good
about themselves or to hear what the, what they view as the truth.
All I know is I don't want my doctor stepping out of the room to go look something up on
(47:59):
chat GPT when they're like trying to figure out what's wrong with me.
Like that's the world that we're actually in right now.
And I think it's a bit precarious.
yeah i'd agree with that i love the discussion guys uh wanted to make sure we got to all the
hands it looks like on my screen wade your hand still up uh did you have a comment on this or
(48:20):
yeah just i just had a quick question for for joe if he had any thoughts or concerns regarding the
chinese supply chain restrictions for critical defense components and missile computer and ai
defense technologies? And then what were his thoughts were regarding legal issues regarding,
(48:41):
you know, filing legal documents utilizing AI?
Well, I'll take the first one. Many of the courts have already adopted local rules regarding the use
of generative AI having to have to be disclosed to the court.
Obviously, the problematic aspect of it is plentiful.
(49:07):
I mean, you've got issues with data security, you know, people that are using these tools
and exposing privileged information to third parties.
Obviously, that's serious.
Then you've got issues with, like, the reliability, the hallucinations of it.
I mean, as I've anecdotally observed, in many cases, it'll just say something that's just
patently wrong. I mean, it told me at one point, and this is like the latest models, I always check
(49:32):
in on this. It will tell me the holding is exactly the opposite in a case in which I was personally
involved in in the appellate court. And the fact that it still struggles to read basic text and
draw implications therefrom is concerning. So like I question the reliability. Now, what I do
think it's very useful for is for, you know, grammar, proofreading, stylistic, clarity, flow,
(49:57):
those types of things. It's very useful in that respect, but actually drawing implications.
I've done little tests, like even on financial things, like asking questions about the Fed,
asking questions about our financial system. And it will, you know, it seems like depending on the
time of day you ask it, it will give you different results and not just immaterial, different
results, like serious things that will say completely different, like does the Fed control
(50:20):
the 10-year interest rate? It'll give you very different opinions depending on when you're asking
it and even minor things about how it's asked. So, I mean, to me, it's an issue of hotbed.
It's a hotbed issue that I think is going to cause a lot of problems for people in the future.
And again, it's like one of those things where, you know, sometimes what is easier is not
necessarily better for you. You can very much easily walk around on one of those little scooters
(50:48):
and move through the store and not use your legs, but that's going to end up atrophying and
weakening the muscles in your legs. That's not a good thing. It's probably more convenient.
You're not going to break a sweat going to get your 24-pack at Costco, but that doesn't mean
it's a good thing for you as a person. The problem I have is that people continue to use
(51:09):
this not as a resource, but as a crutch, which is weakening their analytical abilities. And I see it
like even in these spaces and even, well, this is what GPT says. Well, GPT is dumb. I mean, it's just
dumb. I mean, you're going to just continue to rely on that. So to me, I think it's a serious
issue. I don't think it solves anything in the near term. It may be helpful as a resource, but
(51:31):
the potential for abuse and what we know about humans preferring what's easy over what's hard
has a lot of concerns for me.
The larger issue, though, regarding – so what was the issue about China and the boycotts?
Was that the second question?
Yeah, just the Chinese restrictions on critical defense components to Western defense supply chains
(51:52):
for both AI compute and the missile components were being shut out of the magnet market
and several other critical defense components.
Yeah, I mean, obviously that's not good.
Other than the fact that I think this is more of a tit for tat with what the U.S. is doing with their, you know, some of their bans on China and export licenses and back and forth.
(52:17):
I mean, it just seems like they're raising the hostility there.
It's never good.
I wish we could put this behind us and come to some sort of conclusion on this.
But if the thrust of your question is, do I think this is going to cripple the economy or cause some sort of systemic risk?
I do not.
it's tough, but it's obviously going to lead to increased prices.
(52:45):
Thanks for that, Joe. And yeah, sorry guys, my space is kind of buggy.
I still see Jimmy's hand.
Want to make sure we got to you, Jimmy, if your hand is still indeed up.
Yeah, real quick.
I was just going to say that I have an example of how this works.
And I was listening to a regenerative rancher who knows an awful lot and was talking about other soil sciences and stuff.
(53:06):
So he was using AI and I believe it was chat GBT or it might have been Grock, but it doesn't have the information.
The facts were, you know, everything it came up with was factual, but it wasn't all the facts.
So it's like all fact, but it's not all of the facts.
And there was not a lot about soil science, regenerative ranching, but it talks about cow farts and climate change.
(53:29):
So you're like, who programmed this?
So my question was also, if you put in raw data, let's say as a lawyer, and this is for TC as well, if you still hear, yeah, if you put in a specialized data set, and isn't it still getting filtered when you use AI to get the information?
In other words, it can give you all factual information, but not necessarily all the facts on that subject.
(53:52):
And if it holds back, it's not giving you everything.
I mean, I don't know.
It's like there's a bias in them is what I see.
And that's the problem with relying on them.
Is that true or is there a way to actually program one that doesn't have a serious bias to it?
Look, there are long philosophical discussions about what is true.
Is truth even really a thing?
You know, mathematical truths, logical proofs like these things like.
(54:14):
But, you know, most of what we talk about and debate about, it's not really truth.
It's opinion.
We have a ton of discussions in these rooms about opinion, like what is good, what is bad.
You know, those aren't really things that you can quantify.
Right.
I try to use it with – I literally have the picture in my head of me with it on a leash, and that's the way I think of the technology.
(54:42):
It's not meant to be the oracle with the crystal ball that you go to seeking your answer.
Stop thinking of it like that.
it is a tool, but in my case, because I actually kind of jokingly really am amused by the whole
anthropomorphic phenomenon, I think of it as some kind of creature that's on a leash,
(55:04):
and I give it very specific tasks, and I never cut it loose. I know plenty of other engineers
that just tell it, hey, go refactor my project, and they just cut it loose, and it runs wild and
does a hundred different things and you know, you're left with the result of that. Um, but I,
I like to use it like as a, as a tool where I'm giving it very specific things to do. And I
(55:30):
immediately, you know, watch what it's changed every single step of the way. And regularly I
have to interrupt it and say, stop what you're doing. We're going the wrong way. Let's, let's
rethink this specific piece of it. And that's like, I think how this technology actually shines.
Cause if you look at any complex building in the world, you know, like, you know, building a house
(55:54):
or something, you have to have a lot of different specialties and you have to get a lot of things
right. And it's the totality of all those things that makes a success in what you're building.
And, um, that, that's really what matters. So whether you're, you know, doing writing or coding
or, you know, legal research, you need to have a very clear understanding in your head of what
(56:15):
you're trying to accomplish. And that's why I think all the open-ended stuff of just asking
it these broad questions and looking for truth gets you into a lot of trouble.
Yeah, you're saying you're guiding it instead of it guiding you.
And I totally agree with you. That's the way it needs to be used.
yeah i love that idea of thinking of it as an animal on a leash uh wanted to give a chance to
(56:42):
puncher before we close things out uh and also uh thank everybody who's come up here and contributed
to this conversation puncher good morning sir and uh what are your thoughts yeah you've you've
really got to stay on top of ai and my limited experience here to what tc said but to the you
To the idea that there's no truth, there's no truth if there's no ultimate arbiter of truth.
(57:08):
In my life, that's Jesus Christ and the Bible.
Otherwise, it's just opinion.
Everything's opinion.
Murder's not wrong.
If there is no God, murder is not wrong.
It's just your opinion.
Societies may have formed around the idea that murder's wrong, but many societies have formed around the idea that murder's not wrong.
(57:29):
Yeah, thanks for that.
Would love to continue the conversation with you guys tomorrow.
We do this every weekday at 10 a.m. Eastern.
And really, again, want to say thank you so much, Wade, for contributing your comment and topic.
And then everyone else who came up here.
Guys, if you're not following these folks, please take a second.
(57:52):
Look at everybody who's on stage and give them a follow.
All great people and good ideas.
Love kicking this stuff around with you guys each weekday.
But, yeah, we'll try to do this again tomorrow for Episode 218.
Please join us.
We will have a guest host tomorrow.
(58:14):
Coleman will be back with us, which is great.
And I'm going to try to join from the road if I can.
But get excited for that.
Looking forward to hearing from Coleman again.
But want to wish you guys, lastly, wish you guys a wonderful Wednesday.
And again, we'll do it all again tomorrow.
Just remember, whatever you do, do not shitcoin.
(58:40):
It's like asking Drak for the truth.
Thank you.
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