Ruby Tuesday Ep. 236

Join Bob and company for another fantastic Tuesday conversation

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Thank you.

(00:30):
All right. Good morning. Good morning. Welcome in. We'll give people just a few minutes to join.
Always try to throw some music on there so it's not just dead silence. Start the show with different music.

(00:50):
And hopefully you guys enjoyed that for this Taco Tuesday.
I want to welcome to the stage Neil, and we'll let people continue to file in.
If you guys would like to join the show, please do hit that microphone button in the bottom left.
Otherwise, looks like we got a few comments in that purple pill in the bottom right.
Feel free to drop us a note or a question in there.

(01:13):
Always excited to see new people in the space.
And so we'll just welcome everyone as we get some people up here on stage as we file in.
all right want to welcome you guys to bitcoin veteran spaces number 236

(01:34):
and wow just keeps on ticking by right every day uh we get a new episode so it's fun uh we do this
we do this uh every weekday 10 a.m eastern my name is bob van kirk i will be your host this morning
Again, would love to have others up on stage, see a few requests.

(01:56):
Just try to get some people up here and take a look at the Bitcoin network here for a second.
All right.
It is Tuesday, August 5th, 2025.
And the time chain keeps on ticking just like the episode count.

(02:17):
But we are at Bitcoin block height number 908,736 with the Bitcoin price hovering just above $114,000, which means you can still pick up about 877 sats for each US dollar.
And if you are, this is your weekly reminder, if you are in need of consolidation of your UTXOs, now might be a good time.

(02:47):
the SAS per V byte on the network is around two.
So pretty low, a good time to be doing transactions on chain.
And yeah, support your miners.
All right.
With that, a couple of announcements before we get started.

(03:09):
And again, we'll rearrange the stage.
Want to welcome up BFP and Tomer.
Thanks for joining as well.
But a couple of announcements here before we hop into some topics.
And really, guys, we can take this anywhere you want to.
But first announcement is Thursday.
We have Rob Warren coming in to talk to us about this Imagine If Summit in Nashville, Tennessee on September 19th and 20th.

(03:37):
20th. It is a Bitcoin Park initiative and should be a good time. And then also, I mentioned this
on the show for the first time yesterday, Bitcoin Veterans is having its second summit,
and that's occurring in Nashville as well. Let's see, it's right around Veterans Day. So I think
it's Monday, November 10th is the main conference. And then if you want to get out for range day,

(04:03):
which is optional. That is going to be held on Veterans Day, which is Tuesday the 11th.
So start looking at that today. But if you want more information on that one,
we'll be talking about that quite a bit here in the next few months to get everybody ready,
looking for speakers, people in old workshops, anybody who wants to get involved and help.

(04:25):
But then also if you're just someone who wants to attend and hang out with a bunch of
of veterans uh i think it'd be a good time so visit bitcoinveterans.org forward slash summit
2025 i'll probably remind you guys all at the end as well on that because we do want to make
it a successful event and uh with that let me say good morning first to neil as i see them on my

(04:51):
screen how are you guys how how are you doing this morning neil awesome great i got the girls slept
in a little bit so I got a little bit more uh more shut eye but just another beautiful day
awesome thank you next one I see up here is BFP how are you this morning sir
doing well Bob walking the dog and enjoying the beautiful morning

(05:17):
yeah I think I hear some birds that's great uh Tomer good morning thanks for coming up sir
Hey, good morning.
I don't know if you can hear me well.
I'm in my old beat-up car, so I apologize if the audio is bad.
I'll participate less if it is, but you let me know.
You sound great, sir.
Very good.

(05:37):
And I think it's great that you're driving in an old car.
I sometimes get to drive in an old car myself.
They work, and you just keep them going.
And they don't make things like they used to.
But if you guys have anything on your mind, feel free to bring up any topics or raise your hand.

(05:58):
But one of the things I was thinking we could talk about today was or is, I saw this article that says that adoption of crypto, I guess I'll say, is it was all about that.
And so maybe the main idea of this is that 90% of people who don't own crypto say they don't know enough about it.

(06:28):
So I guess my question to you guys is, do you think that it's actually education about Bitcoin or I guess in this case, crypto is what's needed?
Or do you think that it's in the U.S. at least people haven't felt enough pain with the debasement of the currency?

(06:52):
And I know, Tomer, you join us from Canada.
You guys have seen a lot more purchasing power eroded with the Canadian dollar.
And so, yeah, just curious to hear your guys' thoughts on this topic.
I could go first on that one.
I think it's both, but people don't want to educate themselves until there's a catalyst that makes them interested in the subject or they feel compelled to finally take the plunge down the rabbit hole.

(07:27):
But yeah, education is the way, and we need a catalyst to move the herd.
I mean, my own personal experience is that this is one of the excuses that a lot of people use,
and they say, I'd like to learn more.
But then when you engage with them in dialogue about, well, what is it that you'd like to learn,

(07:48):
or can I guide you through it, they still throw up a lot of objections.
And so I don't know exactly where to put my finger on it.
Like, it's a vague statement to say, I don't know enough about it, because at what point is the threshold that you do know enough about it?
Have you thought to yourself what it means?

(08:10):
So basically, people are saying, I'm not convinced yet, or I'm not motivated enough yet.
And the fact is, most people have heard about Bitcoin.
Many people may be misinformed, and very few people are deeply educated on that.
And so different people have very different thresholds, at which point in time they consider themselves sufficiently informed.

(08:35):
But I also want to be wary of someone saying, I'm not informed enough.
I've had countless people in my life say I'm not informed enough.
And I've sat down with them for three or four hours and answered every question that they have.
And they're still like, well, I'm still not ready to buy it.
I said it was only cheaper, this side, the other.
And I think that if they were to answer, again, a questionnaire about it, they would still say, I'm not informed enough, rather than I'm waiting for prices to come down, or I wasn't persuaded, or I don't believe in it, or I don't think about these things.

(09:07):
So I think that it becomes a catch-all for a lot of vague and unclear thinking that people have who are just basically going with the flow of what everybody else around is doing.
It sounds skeptical or an article you may have come across, but it's just like, I don't think it's the fault of the researchers either.

(09:30):
I think people have a hard time answering what they would do under different circumstances with any accuracy or why they don't do something.
They don't really know an answer.
And so it's easy enough to say, oh, the whole thing is really confusing and dismiss it on those.
yeah yeah i do think it's a cop out go ahead neil yeah i was just gonna say like i kind of

(09:57):
in in my interactions it seems like people it's kind of like a prey response like
they we live in this fiat system where everything's just exploitation and these
zero-sum games player versus player and it's like when you talk to somebody about you know

(10:17):
not just big but i can i can understand someone bringing up the subject of cryptocurrencies and
why you should need them and why you should buy them and then the person just their ears go up
they get like you know that that deer in the headlights look where they're like oh i'm getting
sold something i need to be really cautious they're they're going to take advantage of me

(10:41):
I'm not the one with the like I don't have an advantage of knowledge in this this thing so I'm
probably going to get exploited so it's just kind of like I kind of see that as like they're just
throwing up defensive mechanisms to try not to get eaten to try not to get taken advantage of
or if they just they don't move if they don't take an action they just stay still like they'll

(11:05):
just go kind of unnoticed and i don't know i think that's kind of the problem with the like the the
shit coining is like this dgen culture and it permeates everything from sports gambling to
you know scratch-offs and all this stuff so it's like i it it makes sense in my head of why people

(11:26):
would conflate these things and kind of just group them all together as like this is just another
domain which other people are trying to you know take advantage of me um so it's like breaking
through that is uh i mean that's that's the task yeah i think that's a really good take too and
appreciate all the comments um and guys we can take this kind of anywhere you want we can also

(11:52):
move on to another topic but it's interesting you know what we've been through i think has
played a huge role on both sides, right? The adoption after the pandemic, because people
saw, I think what we could, maybe if we're being nice, call dishonesty from governments around the

(12:13):
world. So it did wake some people up. But on the other hand, some of the fallout from this was,
you know, we've seen boom and bust cycles as well. And so I think that's in some people's minds,
but then you also have high profile collapses like FTX and Celsius and Voyager public companies

(12:36):
like Voyager. And so I do think that there is this,
you know, people don't know about it because they haven't studied it,
but they do know enough to know, as Neil was kind of saying,
to stay away from it because they want to be, take the safe approach.

(12:58):
And so, yeah, I think it's a really interesting topic
because if you're out there talking to people
or if you just see misinformation out there, you know,
I wonder how we combat that.
But I did want to welcome Leb to the stage.
Good morning, sir. How are you?

(13:20):
Hey, thanks so much.
I want to piggyback off exactly what you just said and what Neil just said about conflating Bitcoin and crypto.
Because a lot of what people see in the media, they possibly intentionally conflate Bitcoin and crypto.
So mostly everything people have heard that they think they've heard bad about Bitcoin was actually about crypto.

(13:42):
especially something like, I believe it was like six months ago,
it was a big headline, $25 million of Bitcoin hacked and stolen.
It was actually on Ethereum, wrapped Bitcoin, which, you know, it's a shit coin.
So I think the media plays a part in this as well.
Thanks a lot, guys. I'm going to drop back down.

(14:03):
Yeah, thanks for coming up.
And, you know, we talk about it a lot in the spaces how you can kind of really see some of these things that, for whatever reason, other people don't see.
But the system is kind of set up where corporations largely control the narrative that these media outlets, I would say, put out there.

(14:28):
And, yeah, I do wonder whatever happened to just unbiased media.
But unfortunately, you're fighting that.
I do think that there is this shift, though, where as time goes on, the people who are a little bit younger, I would say the younger generations, it's just going to be much more easy for them to adopt.

(14:52):
Now, maybe not from a price standpoint, but again, we're viewing it through the lens of what we've maybe been able to stack so far.
So I don't know.
Just wonder, anybody have any other thoughts on this?
Tomer, did you want to chime back in at all?
I thought I saw you come off mute, but maybe not.

(15:12):
Well, no, I didn't put my hand up, but I think the points that have been made are all good,
and they all actually relate to why this is a hard hurdle for people to overcome.
There's a lot of things that they have to accept and be prepared to challenge and so on and so forth.
And I don't think that there's a single key to unlocking everybody.

(15:36):
So, you know, on a lot of these spaces, people come up and say,
oh, I found the key is this or the trick is that.
Or, you know, it's different things for different people.
Some people, maybe it's a whole lot of hurdles that they have to jump through many times.
And when you do listen to people's stories who have adopted Bitcoin after some time, they're not all the same story.

(15:59):
Many people go through a Bitcoining phase.
Many people hear about it three or four times over the course of five or six years before they actually take action.
So it could be little pushes eventually cause the wall to tip over for people.
But, no, there's no silver bullet to orange pulling anybody that anyone that I know has discovered yet.

(16:23):
The interesting thing is we do tend to go through these boom-buck cycles that are not macroeconomically related.
They seem to be fueled by price movement that lures a lot of people in with the expectation to get rich quick and then some of those people actually do the learning and they establish conviction and some get burned and ejected from the system

(16:49):
And then some of those return later after learning a lesson and some of them don't return because
they think that the lessons they've learned to stay the hell away from this stuff. So there's
just a lot of really different paths. Yeah, I totally agree with that.
So take, let's see, it's Nate.
Take the ride, go ahead.
Morning, guys.

(17:09):
Hope everybody's doing well today.
In the cars, early adoption phase, when it was being just introduced, roughly half of them were the Ford Model T.
And this is because of price and affordability.
There weren't many other options, of course, but this was what was available.
You saw the same thing when Tesla came out with the EVs for about six or seven years.

(17:33):
And somebody thought about buying an electric car.
They thought about, they only thought about Tesla.
That was pretty much their only consideration because of the format, the pricing, somewhat reliability for the nascent technology.
But unfortunately, if you talk about some, say, electric bikes or something, can anybody name me a brand that they would buy instantly off the top of their head without already being within that realm?

(18:00):
You can't. You really can't.
You can't, I can't walk into that technology and be like, oh, I know which one to buy because this is the one everybody buys.
You can't do that.
With crypto, you're already obfuscating what is the option.
The option is Bitcoin.
The option is not 10,000 new coins every three months because you can spin one up in 30 seconds on a website.

(18:25):
It's not, you can't, if you say crypto, you're already obfuscating the obvious choice.
So when people get sold on this idea of what is Bitcoin, they are already confused.
They're not, they do not, they're looking through muddy waters to begin with.
So it, and it's essentially a, you're attempting to sell someone who's already been sold on

(18:52):
the idea that this is sketchy.
So you're fighting an uphill battle.
And this comes from different perspectives, of course.
Like if you're talking to somebody from Africa, they already understand the need for a fixed denominator.
They live through it.
Year after year, they get cut in half.
When you're talking to somebody from the United States, they don't feel it necessarily as quickly because they only feel it roughly 2% to 10% a year.

(19:20):
On average, it's roughly 4%.
And you have to go back decades to get that actual, I've been cut in half.
the 70s the uh and we saw it in the pandemic but like there were decades between those events
and it takes time and the actual like you need to feel it that you don't you don't necessarily

(19:43):
like you'll see the numbers on the screen you need to feel the pinch at the supermarket at the gas
pump and for those people to relate these two separate zeitgeists together and form a an
understanding of Bitcoin, which is already somewhat complicated to grasp from the get-go,
it takes work. And I think our messaging should be a little clearer when it comes to things like

(20:10):
that. Like, yes, Bitcoin is Bitcoin. Crypto is not Bitcoin. And thus, crypto is shit, basically.
But there's got to be a clearer way for us to get this message across.
yeah i really appreciate those comments and it does get me thinking about a lot of different

(20:30):
things but i'll let neil go uh his hand is up i believe go ahead sir yeah i just uh wanted to add
this had this little thought was like you know when we're thinking of orange pilling you know
it's like we're we're asking the questions we're planting the seeds though that when they take root
will split the stone like the the person has to orange pill themselves we're just helping them

(20:53):
facilitate that process. Like we can't spare them their own proof of work for them to get it.
Because if you just go and tell someone, oh, just go buy Bitcoin. And they don't,
they don't like those roots haven't taken, you know, hold in their heart and their mind. Like
they won't have the conviction. They won't have the know-how, like they won't know how to use it.

(21:17):
Like, you know, giving a toddler a chainsaw and like that, you're not setting them up for success.
So it's like, you know, taking that step back, kind of honoring the other person as a human being, a rational agent, you know, I think that's, for me, that's my kind of approach is I want to treat the other person with dignity, no matter how, like, I don't know, blockheaded they are at any given time.

(21:42):
It's just like I'm going to try to hit them with a question that they can't answer without going deeper.
And so it's not me just like imprinting myself onto them.
It's me really trying to actualize their human potential and help them, you know, become something greater than they are, you know, in this current beaten down state.

(22:10):
Yeah, it's really good.
Somebody came off me. Go ahead, BFP.
Yeah, I was going to say the Americans in general, and I know that's where a lot of the Bitcoin is, but I think the need to educate themselves is going to be all over the world first or the catalyst.

(22:34):
we have barely a million or if not a million addresses with one full bitcoin on them and
we only have like four and a half million with 0.1 bitcoin so 0.1 bitcoin which is 10 million
satoshis and four and a half million addresses which means not it doesn't mean there's four and

(23:01):
a half million people with 0.1 Bitcoin. It just means there's, you know, that many addresses.
People can have as many addresses as they want. So we're really early and we're in the echo
chamber in here. But for all those people that are new, you're so early too, just because you're

(23:23):
hearing about it. So if you run off and get your education and let that seed grow as far as,
getting orange-pilled by orange-pilling yourself
because exactly like Neil said, no one can orange-pill anyone.
They can just plant the seed because you've got to have that conviction
to put your abstracted time

(23:46):
and energy into it. I think it comes
from a grassroots, like I've kind of been saying.
And we're early. Yeah, it's true. We're definitely early
And if you guys are just joining us, we're just talking about this article that says 90% of people who don't own Bitcoin or crypto say they don't know enough about it.

(24:12):
Bob, did you see Scottie Pippen?
He posted about Solano or Solano, whatever.
That's just how early we are when you see guys like that.
It's expected from that liar.
just add like yeah it's just sad
yeah i do think a lot of education needs to happen unfortunately a lot of it comes from

(24:37):
influencers quote-unquote influencers uh this article also said that the researchers found that
only 14 of people have said that they've discussed bitcoin with friends and family
So there really is this, you know, I'll say this kind of stems in my mind, just being in financial services and working in banking, that this is, it originates from this lack of financial literacy, period.

(25:12):
And so people, I think a majority of Americans, at least, when they think about money, it's a big negative to them.
A lot of them think of it as just what they spend.
A lot of people are just not in the habit of saving.
And I think if we're out there telling people about Bitcoin or educating people about Bitcoin, that it's a savings technology or it's a store of value, as the market has seen it recently, then for a lot of people, it's irrelevant because they are happy to be on the hamster wheel of working and then buying the things that they want.

(25:55):
maybe leveraging their future a little bit, you know, borrowing to buy the things that they want.
And they're fine just spending everything that they make.
And a lot of people don't have much savings at all.
So let's see, we got some other hands.
And also, Tao, welcome to the stage.

(26:16):
Do you have any comments on this?
Good morning.
I don't have any comments right now.
I'm just going to listen in.
Great. It looks like we have Rico coming up.
Maybe he has some comments on this before we move on to the next topic.
I know Tomer was driving, so it looks like we lost him to being a listener, but that's okay.

(26:42):
Thanks for coming up earlier, Tomer.
Pubby, how are you doing this morning, sir? And Rico, let's go with Pubby first.
He made it on stage first.
No, no. All good, guys.
Yeah, and that's – look, I get it's a meme.
It's one that's been quite popular, but it's so true about the part about you're so early.
And, yeah, it feels like sometimes a kick in the balls.

(27:05):
How am I early when Bitcoin's, you know, well over $100,000?
What do you mean?
You said that eight years ago.
Well, the sad part is people are still early.
I mean, the actual adoption and usage is minuscule, man.
It just is.
And it's more Bitcoin is more right now reflection on just the basement of the currency and its value.

(27:29):
The store of value is like, geez, you're just trying to hang out.
That's how bad the dollar is doing.
You just hold on to Bitcoin for your store of value and you're going to be coming out ahead just on that reason alone.
And you're looking around at people that are dealing with the true cost of inflation, the 20 percent.
And anyone here that goes grocery shopping or anything else, you just see what the cost is.

(27:54):
You know, I look back a couple of years and, you know, just regular ground coffee I would get has doubled.
You know, a haircut that was $16 is now $25.
And we're trying to explain, especially in the West, is where are they going to scrounge up all this extra cash, you know, to buy Bitcoin?
It's not easy for a lot of people.

(28:15):
And I know there's some that are that are rating the retirement accounts just to keep up lifestyles.
It's tough out there, man. So, yeah, there's a lot going on, but it is still early.
It really is. And if you're you're just starting to get in to understand this, just have patience, man, have patience.
And, oh, this is this is a way out. Many, many of us have found a way forward, at least.

(28:40):
yeah good comments did want to welcome rico uh do you have comments sir
yeah sorry i'm in france it's a bit uh leggy i'm on a farm but yeah i just wanted to jump in
because i've been onboarding some people here at the farm and um i've been talking about this since
for like a couple years and this weekend this last weekend was a huge weekend and um some of the

(29:06):
farmers that we live with, they were really excited to actually put the capital into Bitcoin
once they understood it. But I think we've got a lot of people who have never touched Bitcoin.
We've got a lot of normies, I'd say like, we got like the 30% that are early adopters.
And then now we're tapping into the second 30%. Engineers, farmers, mechanics, people who are just

(29:29):
starting to see the inflation hit pretty hard. So I just want to say that really quick. So you've
got a lot of new adoption coming in of people who are don't understand this at all so it's a really
good time to kind of just have the conversation but maybe not answer all the questions and it's
it's a lot for people to take in but um i love the savings technology that has like brought us

(29:52):
all together in this space right now and um yeah i just i just want to say thanks for having the
space yeah uh really appreciate you coming up and sharing that i did have a question for you before
we go to BFP. Are you in a more rural area? You mentioned a farm, just trying to get a sense,

(30:12):
because we've been joking on this space for a long time, and we probably shouldn't,
but we keep seeing all these reports out of France of crypto kidnappings and heists and
people getting attacked. And so I don't know why France keeps coming up. Maybe Ledger,
who is a pretty popular wallet, has done a good job in France of getting their wallet out there,

(30:38):
and therefore more people have it.
I'm just not sure.
What's your take or feeling on things in France?
That's a really good point.
I left Paris.
I was living there for five years.
I left back in 2022, and I've been living on the countryside since then.
and yeah it doesn't really exist much out here uh there are some i have some friends but

(31:03):
chances where like there's there's a very strong bitcoin community and it's it's on twitter as well
and i think that it's it is strong but it's not publicly talked about it's more done online
um but i haven't heard about any of these attacks uh that's kind of crazy i i we live out in the
country and like um we have a very good insulation barrier between us and the like we've got our own

(31:28):
private road and everything and anybody that comes down there like everybody's like you know looks up
to see what kind of car is coming in but um no i i haven't heard about that i will say that um
for myself i'm keeping a very low profile when it comes to in meat space like irl um about bitcoin
just because of the situation, just because of wrench attacks and stuff like that.

(31:52):
But I haven't heard anything about that.
It's kind of scary.
Well, keep listening to us each weekday at 10 a.m. Eastern.
You'll probably hear some more stories.
Hopefully not, but we do bring them up,
and then we have a whole space on personal security and all of those things.
So, yeah, we're hoping for the best for you guys out there.

(32:12):
Maybe you want to stay away from Paris for a while.
But BFP, go ahead.
And Rico, thanks for coming up and discussing it with us.
Really appreciate the perspective and, yeah, the insights about France.
Yeah, I think that's real cool that farm workers are learning it because I think the lowest income people are the ones who are going to benefit or are benefiting the ones that get it.

(32:38):
this revolution and being able to store your abstract time and energy in a hard currency.
And for those, I always try to, you know, shill like three of my favorite Bitcoin books
to get people to understand it.
But I've come to realize through doing that, that most people just do not read.

(33:02):
So I think you have to either get one of those audio books or you got to do the podcast thing or, you know, watch YouTube videos.
But you do have to put in the work to get you know to get the hardest currency in the world under your or wrapping your mind around the concept because it an abstract concept

(33:31):
Money is hard to understand, and they've made it that way on purpose.
Yeah, and I like your other point about needing to be spoon-fed.
A lot of people do need their hand held quite a bit, especially in financial matters.
Take the ride. Go ahead, sir.
Yeah, I just wanted to touch back on the security issue and not just your security solution for accessing your Bitcoin, your loved ones accessing your Bitcoin when the time comes, but broadcasting it.

(34:03):
Like we can talk about certain security solutions, methods, how to store and preserve our secret keys.
But don't go on Bitcoin Twitter and describe in detail the exact solution involving your children, fingerprints, any kind of physical DNA required to access your Bitcoin through an automated service.

(34:28):
Do not do this.
I'll also mention if you have a Facebook and there are pictures of your house
Delete it now
Do not leave that shit online. There are already ai algorithms that can identify your exact location
And if you're giving them a blueprint for your house on top of that because you want to share everything

(34:49):
Don't do that
Stop talking about how you
Secure your wealth
Don't do this
this is really fucking stupid
I like that take
and honestly it does need that
level of forcefulness
so thank you for bringing that this morning

(35:10):
it drives me nuts when I see people
posting while
they're traveling too
it's like hey my house isn't
occupied right now
nobody's there
even if you have a security system
why would you tell people
like we're having such a good time in the north of uh france or the south of france or wherever it

(35:32):
is we're we're out of the country about that for weeks just come there's some really there's some
really funny things about that too that kind of information is so readily available on your
everyday items if you're a hunter and you put hunting stickers on your truck guess what i know
you leave your house for days at a time you leave any other information out there

(35:55):
because it's really easy to look up really fucking easy i found somebody online i found their exact
location at the bar they were sitting at at what part of the bar they were sitting at and i bought
them a drink simply because they shared a picture online i did that in under five minutes one time
and i was in a truck in the middle of fucking nowhere when i did it

(36:16):
and i'm a i'm a moron i'm a fucking idiot and i did that so please test some
autistic fuck with more time, more free time than a Bitcoiner does. Go ahead. Keep broadcasting your
personal information that puts your children at risk, that puts your livelihood at risk,

(36:38):
put your life at risk. Shut the fuck up, buy Bitcoin and go about your life.
I think we have a hand, but I don't know. It's bugging out for me again, guys, or maybe a couple
hand. So let's get some responses to take the ride. Or if you want to pile on, it's time.
I think it's... I'll jump in.

(36:59):
Good morning, everybody. Thanks for doing this again. Hey, I want to know... That was pretty
funny. I want to know what, you know, yeah, with the rise of, you know, quote unquote,
wrench attacks and whatnot, what are people doing around just going to a Bitcoin meetup? Because I
have an advertisement up here where i live and you know strangers are going to come and let's face

(37:24):
it it's like anything in life even if someone comes they're smiling they're nice they say they
hold bitcoin you talk maybe maybe you meet once a week with several people someone could still be
someone looking to wrench attack you what do you all think about that what are people doing about
that as times have changed.

(37:46):
I'll let somebody else go.
I can jump in.
Yeah, go ahead, Rico.
Yeah.
Yeah, I was about to go to Bitcoin Honey Badger
to Bitcoin, like, Maxi
meetup, and
I go a few times a year, but
I stopped, I mean, just
because I want to stack a little harder
too, but I think about this all the
time, and

(38:06):
And yeah, you have to become more vigilant on a lot of different things.
If you are going to go on vacation, it's good to secure your hardware wallet.
I actually got robbed back in Paris in 2022, actually my birthday.
And they stole everything, my hardware.
I had a private laptop, like a purism laptop.
They stole everything.

(38:27):
They luckily didn't steal the cold storage wallet I had because it didn't look like much.
But yeah, you just got to practice vigilance.
um maybe put your full storage wallet like somewhere outside it's hard i can't tell you
exactly what to do but yeah practice vigilance and everything you do have your seg with wallets
like in different places if you have um passphrases don't put those with your keys as well

(38:52):
it's just we have to practice and i'm glad if you guys are doing like um conversations on privacy
and security this is this is the future what we need to be focusing on right now well unfortunately
it doesn't bode well for Bitcoin or orange-pilling people, right?
I mean, it's weird because it's no different than carrying cash around
and no one questions using USDT fiat because people get mugged.

(39:17):
But it isn't a selling point.
It doesn't help things.
And it doesn't help us to advertise Bitcoin meetups
and wear T-shirts and stickers and talk about it and everything.
I don't know. I wonder what thoughts are on that.
yeah i don't know i'll play like i always think it's a little um i i like it you know going to

(39:40):
meetups and seeing people wear swag but at the same time it gets me thinking like on your way
from wherever you're coming from to the meetup or to the conference um were you just putting a big
target on your back and the thing is you may not even have that much bitcoin and you may not even
have it you might have it uh stored securely and safely and off your person off your residence

(40:05):
um it may even be in an etf um and i know people cringe at me saying that but like there's a lot of
ways to uh hold bitcoin and i just wonder if people are taking on undue uh risk of harm
by wearing swag um and it seems weird right because like a lot of people will say with a

(40:28):
a lot of things like, well, that'll never happen to me. But like, why take the chance? And why post
online, like your movements and all of those things? 23 Skidoo, I'll let you respond. And then
I do see Tao's hand. Yeah, no, I'm just I'm in the same position. It's kind of it's kind of
awkward because it's to use a more mundane lesson that I learned long, long ago, you know, having a

(40:52):
truck in a big city and having a broken boom box sitting on the front seat well it was the
appearance of the boom box you know i get my windows got smashed the box was broken it was
actually the repair of the windows and driving around with broken windows for a while that sucks
so it doesn't matter how much bitcoin you have if you're wearing swag if you're talking about

(41:12):
bitcoin if you're organizing the meetup uh yeah who wants to be uh in a position of torture just
because someone thinks you have a lot, to say the fucking least.
Yeah, things to think about.
Tal, see your hand up.
Go ahead, sir.
Hey, interesting topic.

(41:34):
So I was recently at a meetup just about two days ago in Santa Monica,
and I have to say it's a fine line from, you know,
like going to a meetup and being worried about your safety and everything it's really really
hard to um kind of say it's going to be one way or the other um i i'm going to say um in the very

(42:02):
beginning probably four or five years ago when i got on bitcoin twitter that was one of the my
biggest concerns was that oh um these are people that i don't know i've never met them and do i
trust them, cannot trust them. But there was at some point when you get to know the individual,

(42:24):
you know, through time and on spaces talking, and you feel a sense of comfort, just knowing by the
way they handle themselves and, you know, how they talk and everything, that you feel that this seems
like a pretty good genuine person that you can probably talk to or get to know better. And

(42:45):
that happened to me and after talking with that person you know that changed everything actually
it kind of like um changed the trajectory of i guess my life towards the i guess the bitcoin
community and also open up so many like i would say opportunities friendships it it's a

(43:13):
beautiful thing. Now, I know we need to be very cautious about our security. And that goes not
only with Bitcoin, right? That goes with everything else, right? You do not want to be
driving a fancy car in a bad neighborhood or going to some sketchy place wearing a Rolex and

(43:33):
gold chains or something like that, right? There's something to that. But I must say, guys,
my sort of like, I don't want to call it paranoia, because I don't want to make fun of people who take their security to the extreme.
Everybody has to sort of make that decision.
But I also think that there's really tremendous opportunities to build these amazing friendships throughout the years.

(44:02):
and I have done that with so many people across the world,
not just in my local area,
but across the world where they have helped me in my darkest moments.
You know, you have conversations and they help uplift you
and you share ideas or just somebody you wanted to chat with.

(44:23):
Now, that's going to take time, of course, right?
You're not going to be like, oh, hey, I talked to this person for a month.
Yes, I'm going to trust them completely.
There are people that I have talked to for years, even before even meeting up with them.
But a lot of the people, and I'm going to say like pretty much 99% of the people that I have met in person,

(44:49):
you know, some of them I've invited to my house for a Christmas party because they were that special.
And you just know, you have this vibe that they're special and they know ulterior motives.
Very great people.
And I just want to say, too, don't get too paranoid in a sense where you're like, you're not getting a chance to live life out there.

(45:14):
And I've taken trips to Vegas.
I mean, with them, together.
We share a room.
we talk in very, like, these conversations, like, you know, these are special things.
And so, I don't know, I'm looking at it from that standpoint, and maybe I might be a little
bit naive from that perspective, but I'm just sharing my experience thus far with everybody

(45:40):
that I actually, like, interface with face-to-face.
and the key thing is
you know that they're good people
because they don't pressure, right?
They don't pressure you into
doing this or doing that.
It just flows
and when you notice that sort of thing,
it's a great thing to have someone

(46:02):
you can just once in a while,
you know when there's a special event
like last year at the LA Bitcoin Week,
there are a few events there
and people just gather together
and had a great time sharing food, drinks,
and just had a good conversation about Bitcoin.
So yes, I agree with the security,

(46:24):
but you also have to live your life as well.
And I just wanted to make sure people don't get too paranoid
where they're just saying,
no, remember, what is that phrase
where those who sacrifice freedom for security
deserves neither, something like that?
And so you need to, you know, live freely.

(46:47):
So, yeah, that's all I have to say.
Thanks.
Yeah, thanks for chiming in on that.
And I know we have a couple of hands, but I did want to laugh here and say order came up.
I don't know your order, but I think it's awesome that you change your new profile pic to just a black screen.
So I'd love to hear about that in a little bit.

(47:08):
But first, I want to go to the hands.
I think I saw BFP first.
I feel directly kind of attacked by Tau.
So I'm just going to stay on subject here real quick.
I'm not saying don't talk to people.
I'm saying don't talk about how much you fucking own and your security solution to people.
Don't advertise it.

(47:28):
You can talk about Bitcoin without revealing this information.
You can play dumb.
Very easy to do.
I've done it for years.
Just don't fucking talk about your stack.
That's all I'm saying.
Really, don't advertise. You can talk about Bitcoin. You can play dumb and still teach people about something, too, by asking the right questions, right? You can ask leading questions without insulting somebody and still progressing the conversation.

(47:58):
yeah i really like it and i think that we all you know the main message here is really we all need
to challenge ourselves right this is uh you know as the co-host uh who's up here a lot uh texas
toast i think he's out getting coffee by the way that's why he's not here but he he always says
you know that we have a uh it's it's like radical responsibility with bitcoin and that includes your

(48:27):
personal security, any type of thing around you, you need to be paying attention to.
And so I think we need to treat all of these things as, you know, we kind of need to be
adversarial and protect ourselves.
So I'll let BFP go.
Yeah, Bob, thanks.

(48:48):
I have, I go back and forth with the swag, swag or whatever.
I wear shirts, T-shirts all the time that are Bitcoin.
And I originally started, you know, trying to get my children to understand it by just making them see my shirts by force.

(49:10):
And all that's now they're just old gym shirts and I wear them a lot.
But I just I think it's more important for me to get the word out about Bitcoin than it is Bitcoin.
Because I don't have a lot of Bitcoin and I don't talk about my stack because of how little it is.

(49:33):
But it just gives people with small amounts of money the opportunity to hold on to what they have.
And I'm just not fearful of people in general.
I would probably give the wrench attacker my Bitcoin and try and orange pill him is the sad part because I'm a goofy person.

(49:53):
But I like to go to the gym and you know I protect myself if I think someone going to hurt me But other than that that just me I guess You supposed to say I like to go to the gym and play with guns Well I do like to play with guns but I unfortunately don have one to bring around with me

(50:18):
I was going to joke, kind of joke, but just open carry whenever you're wearing Bitcoin swag.
That'd be nice.
Both of those are no.
Absolutely not.
Live by the sword, you die by the sword.
Open carry is one of the most
dumbest things you could ever do.

(50:39):
I agree.
I'm in the process of getting a concealed carry.
He did
preface it by saying he was going to joke.
So let's not forget.
But order, welcome to the stage.
Thanks for the morning humor.
It's great what you can say
by not saying anything at all, but we'd love to hear you speak.
yeah um what's up guys uh nate about like 15 minutes ago was talking about like facebook and

(51:05):
like i've never understood people who just post their habits their personal lives on facebook
with pictures and uh yeah you shouldn't do that if you own bitcoin or their children like if their
children are like under the age of 12 it's just like leave your kids off the internet we we all
know who lurks on the internet.

(51:26):
Anyway, yeah.
That's nice guy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Totally, totally creepy.
But I don't know.
Rico was talking about break-ins in Paris and shit.
I mean, obviously, what a shithole France is and lots of Europe.

(51:47):
No offense or anything.
If you're in America, though, come on.
just get a gun
you have guns nobody's going to be breaking into your home
stealing your seed phrase and all that shit
you know holding you hostage
James Lopp just posted a story
a guy in Sweden
or one of those Nordic countries

(52:07):
was like brutally tortured
taken out to the forest and all this
this is a new one like recently
I saw that yesterday
yeah that kind of stuff
is just not going to happen in America
if you're armed
there's been three of those stories this year
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyway.
I don't know.
Come back to me.

(52:30):
So I think a good topic is the swag part of things.
Do you want to wear something that makes it stand out that you have Bitcoin or you're really into it?
Or even not just what you wear, but on your car.
You know, people who put BTC or something, right, on their car.

(52:53):
That's an interesting topic.
I think it's important that if you want to wear something that's Bitcoin related,
make sure that it's some sort of apparel that's more subtle
and that it only can be recognized by people who actually know Bitcoin
and not just some nefarious person that's trying to take their Bitcoin, you know.

(53:17):
it's a very difficult subject, right?
Because it's something that we want to like proudly,
I wouldn't say proudly display,
but feel proud about that we are in this somewhat revolution
or we're part of this,
or we really love the idea behind Bitcoin
and what it represents.

(53:39):
And so there's that aspect.
And then there's this sort of like,
well, you don't want to wear that out in public
because then you can become a target.
Now, the interesting question is,
how can you necessarily become a target?
Let's say you're on public and somebody sees you wear that shirt.

(54:00):
Do they think you have one Bitcoin?
Or do they know or do they think you have one million sats or whatever, right?
It's kind of like hard to cover all sort of scenarios.
think okay you know let's say all these different sort of scenarios um i need to watch out for and
look into it's really hard there so to me there's a lot of restrictions there that

(54:28):
ultimately comes down to how comfortable you are and how you live your life right um
do you want to wear it you want to put on on on your ferrari if you if you have a fari or not right
And so I think if you just look at your level of comfort and your situation, et cetera, then I wouldn't overthink it.

(54:49):
Just do what you feel comfortable, stay safe, et cetera.
It's almost like the analogy of, let's say you have a very nice-looking house, a very nice, beautiful house.
What? You're never going to invite a friend over because you're worried that this person sees that you have this beautiful house.

(55:10):
you know that okay well you're gonna be a target or like let's say you you're never gonna drive a
nice car because you're fearful that people see you drive a nice car and they're gonna like like
carjack you or something and that takes away from your life right like okay um i want to drive like
it might not even be a nice car right it may be let's say uh a mercedes right and um you have

(55:35):
always wanted to drive such a car but then you're like well no i'm gonna get attacked at the mall
if i come in and drive in a mercedes or i might get robbed etc and that's that's very sad right
that's very sad to say you know i'm gonna forego how i want to live my life um um because i'm so

(55:57):
i'm so worried about this sort of situation now we're not saying being careless whatsoever right
We're not saying being careless.
We have to be very, very mindful.
My dad has told me, in the U.S., it's not as bad,
but as you go to different parts of the world that's not as safe, etc.,

(56:19):
you don't want to be wearing a Rolex out there
because they'll chop off your hand and take the watch.
There's such a thing like that.
It's scary, right?
So, again, just look at your situation, evaluate everything all around and make a comfortable decision.
And, you know, that's it.

(56:40):
That's the way I'm looking at it.
The basic concept we're talking about is the evaluation of trust that we give strangers.
Right.
And this includes their rationality.
You cannot trust a random stranger with your seed phrase.
you can't trust them with the amount in your stack.

(57:02):
You can't trust them with your children, right?
This is just a basic, super basic understanding
of the things that we encounter every day.
Even just as Bitcoiners, but as parents, whatever.
I'm not saying you can't go to the store, basically.
But you're not going to go to the store
and then talk to some random stranger

(57:23):
about how you have 75 Bitcoin in cold storage in your house, right?
You're not going to do that.
So what you choose to share with other people freely should be measured by the amount of risk you're willing to take on personally.
You're not going to give away your home address to some random stranger on the street and say this is all this stuff.

(57:45):
That's essentially what you're doing when you go on Facebook and post a bunch of pictures.
That's literally what you're doing.
And you need to understand that.
these social media websites are they're at their most basic level are ego yes how many reactions
did i get for my 100 so is your ego worth your family's life is your ego worth your stack is it

(58:13):
all the time and effort you put into building your stack is that worth some fucking likes on
a picture. You need to understand that what you put out into the world is a tool that can be used
against you. So you can be the gray man walking around looking like a bum, be rich as fuck,
and you're not advertising. You're actually dis-advertising it because you're making yourself

(58:36):
not a target. So just all, and you, you can dress nice. You can, you can have nice things.
This is fine. It's just think about what you're doing. The Bushido of Japan in days past was every action has a purpose. You're not doing things frivolously. So when you frivolously advertise your home, your lifestyle, your children, your money, you're giving up a serious level of security and you need to consider that.

(59:08):
And this is a very basic thing.
You're taking a picture of a nice restaurant that you went to and you had an excellent meal and everything fabulous and you had a great time.
And that's awesome.
Great.
Who do you really need to share those things with?
Right?
Yeah, I know.
Don't put it on Facebook.
I never I don't understand.

(59:29):
It's totally narcissists, ego driven behavior like your private life.
Like, look at me with my wife and my children.
Look at us.
Look at us.
We're on Facebook.
Aren't we beautiful?
Okay.
I want to say something, though, that is actually really concerning.
Because we had a situation recently on Bitcoin Twitter where there's this individual that I'm not going to name names.

(59:58):
But everybody's pretty much aware of what happened.
Where they walked amongst us.
And we were shocked.
to, you know, just kind of discover that, you know, he had this, you know, fetish or, you know, criminal record behind him regarding, you know, young people and things like that, right?

(01:00:25):
I'm not going to go too much into it, but there were a lot of people who got, I guess, duped or maybe trusted very easily because I won't say they let their guard down.
But what I'm trying to say is that a lot of people were surprised when they learned about, hey, this individual is not necessary who they put themselves out to be.

(01:00:52):
There's this additional background, including me, I'm going to say that too, right?
Because I had some association with this individual.
But so was another 50, 100, many, many people.
I mean, there are shows about the individual and things like that.

(01:01:13):
I'm not sure about them, but they participated in events and things like that.
And I don't know what to say about that.
I just feel that this is an example where, hey, you are being careful, et cetera, but then there are these people like you never know what their background is.

(01:01:35):
And once you discover them, that this is the situation, like you completely disassociate with that sort of people.
and so there are situations like that not you know one in whatever like what are the chances
sort of thing but there is and so again you have to watch out for that sort of thing and i don't

(01:02:00):
know how much we can do about such a thing right if there are individuals that kind of hide it to
that extent now you know in there in the yeah just just because you're a big corner doesn't make you
a good person yeah we're all flawed it's like just you know there's priests that are yeah you know

(01:02:20):
exactly that's that's a great that goes the same for any like aspect you're not going to go to the
bar and pick a fight with random everybody's human yeah you don't know their skill level
and that's not um i'm not sure what we can do with such a thing right you can literally
you know meet a friend you know a friend and a friend introduces you introduce you to they're a
good friend right but you know doesn't necessarily know that that good friend or something and

(01:02:43):
time goes by, et cetera, et cetera.
So we just, I don't think there's really much to do about it.
I think the best thing is really to say, hey, we're going to be vigilant.
We're going to be in a really mindful situation, evaluate.
And then based on all the evidence or et cetera,
or your experience with the situation, then just go with that decision.

(01:03:05):
And really, I think that's all we can do.
You know, someone should, this should just be purely a security experiment,
purely a social experiment but like someone should like dox their whole name and picture
and everything like first and last name on twitter facebook instagram and then just come out full

(01:03:26):
blown you know i'm a bitcoin or just wear orange shirts all the time and then just see you know
whatever state he chooses to dox from like see what happens in like 6 to 12 months or 18 months
or something, you know, to see, like, who's really going after people, at least in the
U.S. or something.
I know it happens in Europe, but I would be curious.

(01:03:48):
You know, of course, he's armed.
He can defend himself and so on.
But maybe he has no Bitcoin at all.
Right.
Just as the part of the experiment.
But it'd be interesting to see the response to such ridiculous optics, you know.
Fuck that.
Yeah, I mean, it's a it's a fun topic, guys.
I think we had a great discussion today.

(01:04:10):
Texas Toast, thanks for coming up after you got your coffee and chiming in there.
We do expect you tomorrow, co-host.
No, I'm just kidding.
But no, thank you guys.
Seriously, everybody who came up here, we're kind of past time.
But I think it was such a great topic.
Maybe we'll bring it up again.
But you guys did a great job sharing your perspectives.

(01:04:31):
I think we had a little bit of disagreement, but it wasn't too bombastic.
nobody got too angry um i i did love the passion though from take the ride um and i think did you
just come off mute you want to say one last thing well i i mean essentially tau and i are kind of on
the same page it pretty much i would say we're just coming up from different perspectives um

(01:04:55):
one thing i would say is that this should be a constant conversation it's it doesn't need to
like be this level every day, but it should be part of the conversation.
Yeah, I really appreciate it. And I think everybody in the audience does too. We had
a lot of engagement today and we didn't really talk about news too much. So really do appreciate

(01:05:17):
you guys coming up. I think maybe this is a topic suggestion for a panel or maybe a speaker at the
Bitcoin Veterans Summit 2025, which is taking place November 10th and 11th.
So we'll consider that.
And if you guys like to be a part of that, whether you're attending or you want to help

(01:05:39):
out in some way or participate in a panel like we talked about or a workshop, please
go to BitcoinVeterans.org forward slash I guess it's Summit 2025.
and yeah if you guys need help on your Bitcoin journey
please reach out to anybody on the stage
otherwise go to bitcoinveterans.org

(01:06:00):
plug your information in
we will reach out to you
and get you plugged in to resources
to help you on your Bitcoin journey
but that's all we have for this Tuesday
I want to wish you guys a wonderful day
we'll see you tomorrow 10 a.m. Eastern
and please remember
whatever you do
do not shitcoin
It's like bringing a knife to a gunfight.

(01:06:27):
People that use fiat currency as a store of value, we call them we core.
We call them we core.