The Significance Of Digital Scarcity Ep. 240

Join Bob and company as they discuss the importance of digital scarcity.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Thank you.

(00:30):
All right, good morning, everybody.
We are back.
It's Monday.
Hope you guys are all excited for another Bitcoin Veterans Faces.
Number 240.
Yeah, it just keeps on ticking.
My name is Bob Van Kirk.

(00:50):
I will be your host this morning.
Good morning, Mining Goblin.
I'll let you come off mute here in just a second.
But let's look at the time chain today.
Monday, August 11th, 2025.
The Bitcoin block height is at $909,569 with the Bitcoin price just over $120,000, which means you can still pick up about 832 sats for each U.S. dollar.

(01:16):
I'm going to actually put Mining Goblin on the spot.
Would you like to talk about the Bitcoin Veterans Second Annual Summit, sir?
Yeah, absolutely.
November 10th and 11th this year, the year of our Lord 2025 in Nashville, Tennessee at the Bitcoin Park in Nashville.
We will host a one day event, panels, speakers, workshops.

(01:38):
It's going to be a free flow.
We'll have a main stage with panels and speakers.
But if that doesn't scratch your itch, we're going to have hands on activities in the other building with hardware wallets, guns, Bitcoin miners and any other doodads, widgets or gizmos that you can get your hands on that are relevant to Freedom Tech and the broader Bitcoin veterans mission.
And if you're interested in something like that, BitcoinVeterans.org slash Summit 2025 is where you can get more information.

(02:01):
Sign up on the wait list on meetup.com and we will be in touch for ticketing.
The second day is going to be a range day called Range Day and other stuff.
So if you're a veteran, if you're not, it doesn't matter.
All are welcome at this event.
And it is geared and themed around Bitcoin, as is everything Bitcoin Veterans does.
But if you've never held a gun, if you've never shot a gun, come out, join us.
You want to learn from the people that know how to use these tools in the best way possible.

(02:25):
We will teach you how to properly handle a firearm, how to manipulate a firearm.
And if you're a more advanced shooter, intermediate or advanced, you've sent rounds downrange, you're proficient with the tools of the trade, come out and join us and we'll have some friendly competition.
And maybe we can wager some stats on the line.
So two-day event, November 10th and 11th, Nashville, Tennessee, Bitcoin Veterans Summit.

(02:45):
Be there or else.
else. I think I'm going to clip that one and replay it every day until the... Thank you for
that. Really appreciate it. You've done a much better job than I have thus far, so really
appreciate you coming on and doing that. We do have several familiar faces on the stage. Wanted

(03:06):
to say good morning to each of you. Coleman, thanks for joining us. We have Shane, we have
Mining Goblin, and we have BFP. And wanted to say good morning to each of you. But before we kick
off the show and talk about topics. Wanted to invite the audience to participate. Please do
hit that microphone button if you'd like to join us up here on stage. And if you can't,

(03:30):
you're just listening. All good. Feel free to use that comment box in the bottom right. It is the
purple pill showing up on your screen and would love to interact with you there. So leave a comment
or question, snide remark or meme. And lastly, please retweet the space. We want to educate as

(03:50):
many people as possible on Bitcoin. So good morning, Texas Toast as well. And yeah, today's
topic, we could talk about news. There's a lot of different things. One of the things I do want
to hit on today, though, is this topic of the significance of digital scarcity. And main reason

(04:13):
I wanted to bring it up is because I do think that we tend to move past it quite quickly. And so for
people who are newer, they may not quite understand what this is. A lot of people come here for
number go up. And so I thought it'd be fun to kind of reach back into maybe some of the little

(04:34):
early things that people should be learning and really concentrate on this topic. I realize
there's others, so we can really take this anywhere you guys want to. If you don't want to
start there, to the guys on stage, trust each one of you. So I think what we'll do, since we have
quite a few folks on stage already, is I want to say good morning to BFP first. How are you doing,

(05:01):
sir. I'm doing well. How's it going, Bob? Outstanding as always. Great and wonderful
for this Monday. Shane, how are you doing this morning, sir? It's been a couple of weeks since
we've seen you. Thanks for joining. Great to see you guys, Bob. I love the energy in here.
I can see everybody up here on stage and in the audience. I've been traveling my ass off and just

(05:23):
getting after it in the Bitcoin mining space, but glad to see you guys are rocking and rolling.
It really feels like you've fallen into a groove here, Bob, and I'm digging the energy, man.
Yeah, I appreciate it.
It's been fun.
Built my own little prison here.
No, I'm just kidding.
But we do do this every weekday, 10 a.m. Eastern.
Would love it for you guys to join us, and we'll keep doing it as long as you guys keep showing up each weekday.

(05:49):
Let's see.
My stage is moving around a little bit.
Coleman, are you lifting heavy things, or are you chilling out?
What's going on this morning?
I am not lifting heavy things this morning at the home base, home office, first day of homeschooling with the kiddos.
So just trying to get all that situated.

(06:12):
Living real life. It's good stuff.
Texas Toast, thanks for co-hosting this morning. You're back.
Better Internet connection. Let's test that.
I'm back, dude. We're so back.
Bob, I have a question for you.
If there's only one pizza with 21 slices, how can everybody get a slice of pizza?

(06:34):
Nibblins.
Yes, I think it's the corn dust on the crust.
Mining Goblin, how are you doing this morning, sir?
I'm doing well.
I'm here to celebrate another Bitcoin Veteran Spaces all-time high, led by our very own Bob.
You're the only one that made this all-time high possible, so thank you for that.

(06:55):
and look forward to talking about digital scarcity.
I've got a great little rant queued up in my brain.
We'll see if it comes out as vomit or as eloquent.
Yeah, why don't we kick it off there?
You're always eloquent and interested to hear
how you approach this topic.
Hopefully you guys can appreciate this this morning,
but we really, you know, for some of us,

(07:15):
you've been in the space so long,
you've forgotten about digital scarcity.
You're like, ah, that's just, you know, clockwork.
It doesn't matter.
But I really do think it'll be fun,
hopefully for us to kick around this topic. So, Mynum Goblin, I'm going to give you the honors
since you did such a great job talking about the Bitcoin Veterans Summit. So, go ahead, sir.
Would love to hear from you. Sure. Well, I mean, I think the first thing to sort of recognize about

(07:38):
digital scarcity is this is the first time in history Bitcoin is the first time in history
where we have digital scarcity, right? There's been no provable way to not be able to just right
click, copy, and save something in the digital space until Bitcoin came around. And now you have
this unit of value within Bitcoin that is absolutely digitally scarce, guaranteed by
cryptographic irrefutable truths called mathematics. But the second and third order implications of

(08:03):
that I think are great. And if you haven't checked out anything by Jeff Booth, specifically,
there's a book called The Price of Tomorrow. I think it mentions Bitcoin just one time.
But The Price of Tomorrow basically covers when you have an abundance of money, which is the fiat
system, when they can just print ad nauseum, you have scarcity in everything else. The converse

(08:23):
side of that, or the flip side of that, is digital scarcity creates abundance with everything else
in relation to that. Because when you look at something from an economic or even just a financial
lens, it's really a supply and demand, right? You have something measured against something else,
and supply and demand works into that. But with an absolute finite measurement,

(08:45):
an absolute finite measuring stick, you can now acquire more things for less units of that digital scarcity, right?
So less Bitcoin gets you more goods or services in the future over time due to this digital scarcity.
And when you look at that also from just a productivity standpoint, right, AI is now all the rage.

(09:06):
You have like the productivity or the non-so productive class of people just pushing papers around.
AI, I think, is going to remove those people and push them back to the edges of actual productive use of their time, skills, and labor.
And what that means is you're going to drive the prices down to the marginal cost of production.
So whatever it takes to make a pencil, we'll call it because pencils are great analogies in economics.

(09:30):
Whatever the cost it is to make a pencil, that's where the price is going to trend around because it's just going to go to the floor due to productivity.
The problem we've had with fiat is the ratio between pencils and fiat. That fiat number just grows exponentially. So like pencils are way more unaffordable as denominated fiat than they were 5, 10, 20 years ago.

(09:53):
And with Bitcoin, everything, houses, beef, time, is more affordable, more abundant. If you are living yourself on a Bitcoin standard, your abundance of time goes up because the thing that you are holding and capturing that time in, which is money, right?
Money is used to sort of capture the value that you produce for potential future uses, for exchanges of future uses.

(10:19):
And we have a consistent measuring stick of Bitcoin.
You now have this thing that you can gauge everything against.
And sure, your time might not be worth as much Bitcoin going into the future.
But the flip side of that is you will have you'll be able to leverage your time a lot better.
You'll be able to use your time to pursue the things that you find meaningful, to pursue the things that make your world and your family, your community better.

(10:45):
I think that's probably where I'll lead with the conversation.
But the price of tomorrow is where my mind goes when you talk about digital scarcity, where we've just had this broken ruler of measurement for everything across broad society in the unit of the dollar for the most part.
And unfortunately, that's expanded to the global economy.
But because of that, you have one pencil denominated by however many dollars, and that number just keeps going up in dollar terms.

(11:11):
TXMC, if you've got some comments coming on stage, I'd love to hear from you.
Yeah, I did throw TXMC an invite.
Curious to hear a counterpoint.
So, yeah, feel free to come up.
We'd love to have you.
But others that we have up here on stage, what are your guys' thoughts on either one?
I have a thought on how you share a 21 slice pizza with more than 21 people.

(11:36):
You tokenize the pizza slice and then you give it that token to somebody else.
And you're like, don't you enjoy your wonderful token slice of your pizza?
And then they're going to look at you and they're going to be like, no, I want your pizza.
So that's what tokenization is kind of worth.
It's just, you know, an empty slice of pizza.

(11:57):
I totally agree with that.
but you without the pizza are now incentivized to work your ass off to get
that pizza.
I mean,
it does leave you a severe want for pizza.
So I guess it does leave something with you.
Chains of hunger,
good motivator.
Anyways,
I,

(12:17):
I think on the digital scarcity thing,
one of the things that is,
is most interesting to me,
at least is this idea that,
this scarcity only comes with censorship resistance.
And I think that's something that we have to be really, really careful about.

(12:39):
There's been a couple of very heated discussions around censorship and Bitcoin,
and I think that that's something that we really need to understand,
And that to have provable scarcity, you have to have the ability to have censorship-resistant validation of the total sum of transactions and the total sum of coins.

(13:05):
And we really need to be careful about filtering and or censoring because they're the same thing.
And those are slippery slopes when it comes to digital scarcity.
Yeah, I don't disagree. I think there are people on both sides, right? On the far end, you have people who want filtering because they think that nodes shouldn't be clogged with a bunch of garbage data.

(13:36):
But on the other side of the argument would be people who say, I think what you're asserting, BitPetro, which is that this is an open network and everyone should be able to use it however they want.
I think probably most of us fall somewhere along the lines of that spectrum.
It's an interesting topic, but I do want to keep it on this thought of digital scarcity.

(14:04):
Again, trying to get it back down to the basics.
And so if I can just maybe kind of circle the wagons here on this, you know, there's a problem that had existed.
Anything digital can be duplicated infinitely before Bitcoin.
And I think that the world is still people are still trying to figure out or understand the significance of this and thus the topic.

(14:33):
And so if we're really dialing it back, I mean, there's a lot of things that we can talk about.
And I think some of the ideas have already been introduced.
But really where I wanted to start us off is really at this original problem that when the world started to go digital, we had this problem because if I send you a file or an email, that file or email is infinitely duplicatable or duplicated infinitely, let's say it that way.

(15:08):
And so if money is just a file, nothing is stopping you from making another identical copy and spending it twice.
And so as we look at the white paper I think a lot of people miss because you know we just see number go up We miss the fact that Bitcoin is the first time in history that the double spend problem was solved And it simple

(15:41):
but it's also something difficult to understand. And so, again, just circling the wagons,
I know for a lot of us, this is repeat. This is simple. But I think that if you really boil it down, until people understand how important this discovery is, they will look at Bitcoin as irrelevant or a number. They'll look at it and measure it by price.

(16:09):
and so BFP I saw you come off mute I'll let you go and then Shane I think you were emoting but
go ahead BFP. I lost you on that last year you cut in and out so I was wondering if I was having
trouble so I hit the mic button but I did have something to say I was going to raise my hand

(16:33):
Can you hear me okay?
Oh, yeah.
I was going to say the Neil Flesher guy that you guys had on, I've been reading his book,
and he's got me thinking about money and how it's basically not valuable at all without people.

(16:54):
Money is just an abstract and a physical form, but Bitcoin is not a physical form of money,
but it is tied to the physical world through the energy process, which makes it kind of
hylomorphic.
That's his term that gives form to matter.

(17:16):
So things, you know, it's a complicated term, but when you read his book, it helps crystallize
it.
But all these forms of money, they compete in right now.
They're all competing for the physical, which the physical U.S. dollar has morphed into this digital dollar, which is just coming unraveled.

(17:39):
The tapestry, somebody pulled the thread and there's just it's it's it's becoming like just everywhere.
And there's too much of it. And it's debasing.
at a rapid level.
And then you have Bitcoin, which is showing all the flaws of this currency,
and currencies are always going to compete against each other.

(18:01):
So you're just seeing it all play out, and Bitcoin's winning this race.
And that's the way I see it, I guess.
That might have not made sense, but that was my shot at it.
No, good comments.
And Shane, go ahead, sir.
I see your hand.

(18:21):
I think these are all great comments.
And I think, you know, as we really understand the significance of digital scarcity in a decentralized way as it pertains to money,
I think this is probably the crux that is probably I think most important to me is that now instead of having a centralized form of money

(18:45):
that's controlled by some of the worst people on Earth that can counterfeit it out of thin air,
We've got a proof of work type of money that takes time to understand.
It takes a lot of energy and effort to mine and to put into the hands of the people that actually understand it and value it as a commodity, a limited commodity and a digital property asset.

(19:12):
And in terms of changing the world, this is the base layer.
This is how we stop the atrocities and start pushing peace because right now and what we've seen over eons really is the people who centralize their economies and counterfeit money and debase their money are the worst kinds of people.

(19:35):
They are into, you know, this this right now, this the glut, the sexualization, the sloth, the rage, the war.
And, you know, what we're seeing, you know, how this has manifested itself now is, you know, if you can print the money, you can buy anybody you need to buy.
You can run, you know, elaborate types of entrapments.

(19:58):
You can blackmail people who would never have been blackmailed in the past.
And then on top of it, you can traffic kids around the world and drop bombs on them and starve them.
And this this this is all going to change as they now have to play on a level playing field with the people who actually produce.
And, you know, moving back into a meritocracy of some sort or a multitude of sorts across different cultures,

(20:26):
of different geographical regions, especially the global south that has been just kind of
hollowed out by a lot of what you can read in the economic hitman.
I mean, this is going to change money.
And in terms of digital scarcity, to have something like this to now finally catch up

(20:51):
with the global economy. This gives legs to people all around the world to send value to one another
directly without the interference of middlemen from, you know, like I said, the worst people
on possible that live on earth. So as we start to recognize, you know, what this does for,

(21:12):
you know, not only economies and our time that we recapture instead of giving it to,
you know, murderers and rapists and the rest of these guys that are in powerful positions.
I get this hope and this optimism and this passion.
And I think that's probably what a lot of other people here in this space in terms of

(21:33):
Bitcoin veterans, you know, have and see.
And that's why they're so excited about the future.
And it's why they're working their butts off, you know, a lot of times for, you know,
nothing at all to make this thing happen.
And so the legacy in the end is something that we can all be proud of and something that our kids and their kids and the generations to come will look back and go, thank God these guys adopted Bitcoin and fought like hellions for it and tried to do it as peacefully as possible.

(21:59):
yeah and i think that what you're talking about really does challenge a lot of people's personal
professional and even like some people's national identity i don't know if you guys have ever talked
to people about bitcoin and they start going down the path of oh man you know this is you're saying

(22:24):
this is going to replace the dollar. And, you know, for a lot of people, they're super patriotic.
They're very entrenched in the system, whether they've done well or not. A lot of them think,
man, this is something that is really going to be if everything you say is true, this is going to be

(22:45):
very disruptive. And a lot of people are just conditioned to want to go with the status quo.
And so I think we've seen this in the first 16 years of Bitcoin, especially with institutions.
Institutions are remarkably slow to move and probably for good reason, but they rely upon currency expansion.

(23:09):
And so they're not going to endorse something that's going to remove their control.
And I think that's beginning to change.
But I think what Shane pointed out is some of the corruption or negative aspects of this assertion of control that we've seen with the money.

(23:33):
And so, yeah, I think this is really interesting because Bitcoin really is, as I was saying earlier, it's very intellectually simple to understand digital scarcity.
Like once you take a second, understand what has happened here.
It's very simple, but it's psychologically radical.

(23:57):
And that has to do with, again, these these biases that we have, these things that we are in like these beliefs and these systems that are entrenched from the moment you're born, basically.
And so Bitcoin is threatening those beliefs and then those systems.
And so I think it's really interesting because we can come at it from a lot of different angles, right?

(24:23):
Like we could come at it from a personal level, a professional level.
We could look at it from governments, what this looks to upend.
And there's just so many things that this really changes.
And so, you know, when I named the space, the significance of digital scarcity, my hope is and remains that when we talk about this, we can go down a lot of different rabbit holes, but that we're really trying to key back in on why it's important that this discovery of digital scarcity was made.

(24:59):
And so I'll land the plane there, but I want to give Texas Toast a chance to kind of respond or come up with his thoughts on this topic.
Yeah. I mean, when digital money, as we know it now, is just a ledger. And when that ledger can be controlled and replicated without a code, like Bitcoin is just a code that authorizes the distribution of the code through proof of work mining.

(25:31):
and the U.S. dollar is authorized by, you know, a bunch of different factors.
And that money flows from the person who clicked the button down
and it hardly ever makes it down.
It's inefficient in a lot of ways, through corruption,
through bureaucracy, through all this stuff.

(25:53):
So to have an incorruptible money is extremely powerful.
And the fact that it is scarce and infinitely divisible is what makes it also extremely powerful.
Something that gold did not have.
Gold did not have infinite divisibility and an ability to, you know, reach every person on the planet as money.

(26:17):
Bitcoin does.
And when you add through a second layer and anything like this, you can create that penny, basically penny cost transactions on second layers.
Because it's just a ledger in digital, there's a multitude of different things without actually increasing the supply or diluting it at all.

(26:42):
So, yeah, I got that question the other day from my mom.
she asked me about like, how can it get, how can everybody benefit from it? You know, it's like this,
this communist couple, I've had a couple of people where they start to think about it and they go,
okay, there's only so much. How can everybody benefit from it and not just the insiders or

(27:05):
the first movers? And so kind of digging into that and how, you know, you might not benefit as
much because, you know, I saw this or somebody else, they took more risk in the past. So they're
going to get outsized benefits as kind of first adopters of this system, but everybody stands to
benefit. And, uh, even just the base, even if it's not number go up gains in terms of, you know,

(27:31):
these astronomical, uh, levels, it provides this, this base layer of trust and, uh, or it takes away
trust in a lot of ways, but, you know, once you understand that you can put it into a law
instead of a person, you know, that adds a lot too. So I don't know. That's it. How would you

(27:53):
respond to that type of question, Bob, or anybody else? Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, you bring up
a lot of things in my mind and maybe I'll take it some place and some other people can take it
other places. But for me, I don't know, I just I'm trying to think back, like a lot of, you know,

(28:13):
where we've come from is, I think, important, like as people, as societies, you look at the
evolution of money, as, you know, history past has gone by. And I think that we're, you know,
we're not, how do I want to say this? We are in history before the internet really conditioned

(28:38):
to this idea of physical scarcity. Now, nothing's absolutely physically scarce. Maybe you could
argue land, but I think we've seen recently, like the argument is they can make more land if they
want. And what I mean by that is like waterfront property. We can go down that path, but really,

(28:59):
Really, like if you boil it down for humans because of our inability, maybe in the past to travel, to communicate over huge distances in a quick manner.
Like think about all the things that the Internet's allowed us to do.
Land, food, tools, precious metals, money has been physically scarce.

(29:21):
And like our brains are wired for tangible things.
And so I think that using something or being introduced something that is provably finite or provably scarce really feels unnatural to us.
Like it's hard coded into us because we're still adjusting, like it or not, to this Internet age, this digital age.

(29:46):
And so I don't know, that's kind of where it gets me thinking like, we probably don't have people that are that like against Bitcoin, they just haven't really taken the time to conceptualize what it means like, heck, some people just started having move from, you know, a phone being on their wall to a flip phone, or maybe a smartphone.

(30:10):
You know, people people will hold off on this stuff as long as humanly possible, either out of fear or just again, like I was sharing.
I just think for a lot of people, it just feels like something unnatural.
And it's easier to not dig into it when your whole life has been built around these things that are tangible, physical things that you understand that are right in front of you.

(30:35):
So I'll, that's where you were getting me thinking Texas dose,
but I do see Hunter's hand and I've spoken enough.
So go ahead, sir.
Hey, good morning guys.
Yeah.
I was having a conversation with my stepbrother kind of about this topic and
you know you guys have kind of hit on it but you know the fact that we got generations of us that have been just born into this fiat prison I feel like there maybe like a lack of imagination that we can even break this cycle

(31:06):
And it takes a certain amount of energy and education to really understand the principles that make Bitcoin so special.
And some people are just so much with the shutters on the sheep that they don't understand that there is an alternative.
They're just born into this fiat prison and they don't even realize that the solution is Bitcoin or what these principles of Bitcoin even unlock for them.

(31:33):
And so that's just something that I think it's going to take a lot of imagination and orange peeling and just get people to understand how these things can change the world that we live in.
We don't have to settle for where we're at just because it's been this way for us and our parents and our grandparents and as far back as we can remember.

(31:56):
Yeah, good comments.
Did want to welcome TC to the stage.
Anybody else have comments or TC, you want to take it somewhere?
Yeah, I love this topic. I don't know. I think you guys covered a lot. For me, there's a lot of sort of sneaky concepts there that are really obvious once you see them. I think all Bitcoiners kind of know that feeling. It's like all this stuff is so obvious in retrospect.

(32:24):
But it really does take a shift in perspective and thinking to get you to even look and think about it long enough to actually have those kind of thought patterns change for yourself.
I mean, the scarcity thing is really a fundamental aspect of value.
And if you think about everything in your life that's meaningful, most of the things that you really value highly are incredibly scarce.

(32:54):
Think about your children or your wife, your family.
These things are so important because it is so scarce and irreplaceable.
And something happens to that and that breaks and it's a disaster.

(33:14):
And I mean, just apply that to every other aspect of your life and you can see that pattern is there.
And then as far as the money goes, I love that question about, well, how is it going to benefit everyone? Because the instant thought from a fiat perspective is, oh, well, the people who got in early are obviously going to benefit from Bitcoin. And how can I, as someone late to the party, benefit?

(33:39):
And that's actually a really interesting way to look at it because in fiat money, as time goes on, because of the inequality of access to the new printed units, everyone is actually suffering from the design of that system.

(34:00):
So as more money is created, because that system has to increase the debt, the debt feeds on itself and it has to proliferate more debasement of the currency. And that's just kind of like a design aspect of it.
You know, BFP, you said it's broken system.

(34:20):
It's not.
It's working exactly as intended.
It's a debt-based monetary system.
So it demands that the units get debased.
So going into the future, everyone feels the pain from that debasement with the exception of those with the privilege of having access to those new units.
Now look at Bitcoin from that perspective.

(34:41):
yes obviously if you the earlier you got in your benefits are magnified but everyone who holds any
bitcoin benefits from the fact that bitcoin's design means that it's going to increase in
purchasing power as a scaling mechanism that is how it actually scales to more and more people

(35:02):
so if we're sitting here with one percent of the planet having some bitcoin and you think we're
going to go to 10% or 50% or 100% eventually, the scaling vector there is the actual purchasing
power of those fixed units. And everyone, whether they hold a big stack from a long time ago,

(35:25):
or they start stacking today and they, you know, accumulate some Bitcoin in the near term,
they're all going to benefit from it. So it's a really interesting inversion,
because in the fiat system, you're talking about everyone suffering from the consequences of this
debasement that's built in, it's baked into the cake. And in Bitcoin, everyone benefits from the

(35:48):
purchasing power increase of those units as the system scales to more people. So that scarcity
functions as a way of flipping around sort of the worst dynamic about the fiat money system,
which is that everyone, especially those that are completely oblivious and aren't even aware of how that system's working.

(36:09):
But I saw a bunch of these videos in my feed this morning of people trying to just go shopping for things,
and the prices are smacking people in the face.
And they're just like, what is going on here?
And so it's really just one of these things where if people just put those two concepts together
And they realize this is not some kind of accident or mistake that those prices keep going up in dollars.

(36:35):
And it's also not an accident or a mistake that Bitcoin keeps accruing more purchasing power priced in those dollars.
So I think it's a great one to talk to your mom or your brother and just kind of help them see that duality right there.
It's not a technical thing.
It's kind of just a realization of sort of these forces, especially with the fiat debasing.

(36:59):
Everyone has experienced that in the last five years.
So I think it's a great jumping off point to get people to start looking at Bitcoin.
Yeah, TC, and BFP, I see your hand there, so I'll let you go next.
It does get me thinking, though, like Shane brought up kind of like the big idea, right?
Where does the pain meet people?

(37:19):
And so what I love about what you said, TC, is you were bringing up another pain point, right?
So I think what really, and we've talked about this a million times about orange billing, like people, a lot of people won't see what Bitcoin is or the significance of it until they understand the pain that comes along with the current system.

(37:42):
And so I like the range here this morning, guys. We've gotten, like I was saying, Shane bringing up some of the egregious problems that come from controlling the money printer.
But then, TC, I think you're bringing it down to more a personal level, which I think is super important as we're having conversations.

(38:04):
and so BFP, I'll let you go
and Hunter, I'm not sure if we still have your hands here
but BFP first and then Hunter, if your hand's truly up, we'll let you go
Thanks, Bob
I think the whole
Bitcoin revealing

(38:27):
basically, it's revealing what fiat
is and how it's flawed.
And I think a lot of times we think, or I always mismatch these words,
revolution and a monetary revolution or revelation,
but I think it's more of a monetary revelation because there's no war.

(38:52):
If anything, everyone combines to figure it out when they figure it out.
So it doesn't have this like we have to attack, we have to do anything.
It's really just doing it in the background organically through people's minds.
It's all I mean, you could you could argue it's a mental war or that's the battlefield of the mind.

(39:20):
But in essence, it's a revelation.
You know, Bitcoin reveals itself when you're ready.
And a lot of times it takes somebody planting that seed in your head for you to think, oh, maybe I should look into this.
And that's why I call it the rabbit hole revelation.

(39:41):
That's it.
I don't know.
The revolution is changing your actions.
it's a shift in thinking and then a shift in how you operate.
And it can be revolutionary. It doesn't require war.

(40:03):
In today's society, it is a revolutionary thing to think critically
because so many forces are trying to get you to switch your brain off
and just take the doctrine and carry it.
so there's a lot there but i mean that to me the the the pain point is something that's universal

(40:27):
at this point i don't think anyone who actually operates in the real world if you go shopping for
food i think that's one of the the most obvious ones but i saw in my feed this morning someone's
like trying to buy some silverware for their new apartment or somebody's going out to buy
or someone goes to the dollar store and everything costs at least five or six or seven bucks.

(40:49):
And it's like, you know, everyone is seeing this shit.
They just don't have a context for what to do with those thoughts.
And in the absence of some critical thinking or some sort of helpful connections,
it's real easy to tell that person, hey, that this is happening because of those people over there

(41:10):
or because of that person right there.
And that's what's going on mostly. So most people are delegating out the sort of thinking part of it to whatever talking head on the news or whatever people they trust. And, you know, all of that stews into a lot of sort of anger and tension socially.

(41:35):
So heads up for that, too, because I think that's all that's all happening steadily in the background.
I put a I put a post in the nest that's from Stack Hodler.
I don't know if any of you guys follow this guy.
He writes some some very well-organized thoughts sometimes.
And his thing this morning was about, you know, your beliefs determine your thoughts and then your thoughts determine your actions.

(41:58):
And he ties it all into to Bitcoin.
And it's I think I sent that this morning to a friend of mine.
I think it's a useful one for the people that are sort of on the fringes.
TC, I think part of the key is to lead people away from having to trust people so much and to educate them that there's a protocol that you don't have to trust and you can just verify code.

(42:22):
And I think the pain point is going to catch up with these people where they're sick of putting their faith in politicians and the Federal Reserve and people that are making the money decisions for them and to just trust Bitcoin or trust something that you can verify the code.
You don't even need trust with Bitcoin.

(42:44):
Yeah, good stuff.
Did want to go to 23 Skidoo.
Welcome to the stage, sir.
Thanks for putting your hand up.
Hey, thank you.
Good morning, everybody.
Yeah, I mean, of course I agree with basically everything I see here, here, here, TC, everything you've been saying is true. And, you know, I'm always I'm always the devil's advocate in my own head.
I don't mean to push back at people, but the concerning part for me, the sobering part is just, or the sobering piece is just simply that I think of people, I don't know what cross section it is, middle class, lower middle class, but just the everyday people that I'm around.

(43:23):
Yes, everything we said here applies.
The pain point applies.
They're being stolen from.
Life is getting harder.
They need to investigate it.
They need to think about it.
They need to understand it.
But the fucking reality is, Sarah's offering, is that to some extent people won't.
I mean, that's kind of depressing in and of itself.

(43:45):
It's just that people won't.
And with some compassionate people also don't have time, space, bandwidth when they're just working all the time,
when they're just caught in this fiat prison to come to terms with this because and weaving it

(44:07):
around to things that other people said earlier people are programmed for physicality i think
bob was saying it like immediacy holding gold holding dollars holding an object that's being
traded and bitcoin is digital that is a bit of a struggle in this time and especially under all
the things I just said for people to be expected when they're living hand to mouth, struggling

(44:30):
every day, whatever little bit of money that they can afford to have a little bit of fun
with, get a drink, go out here, music with a friend, to expect them to make an intellectual
connection, to make a courageous connection between trade some of that for Bitcoin.

(44:50):
I'm not going to say buy.
I've been thinking about this.
Why do we always say buy Bitcoin?
It's not a fucking stock.
Trade the currency for another currency and hang on to it.
The price will go up in time.
There'll be less pain.
And to even circle that around to the thing that I'm people who hear me on here might be getting bored of me saying Bitcoin needs to be used every day for things in our life because that would be the connecting point.

(45:18):
That would be the needle and thread weaving everything we're saying together is that people were in the damn store and online.
And seeing two prices, U.S. dollars, the loaf of bread is $4.
It is $6.
It is $8.
It is $10.
Bitcoin, if there was a way we could break it down without the complicated numerals, but Bitcoin is .005 satoshis.

(45:46):
Bitcoin is .007 satoshis.
Three.
You're on the wrong way.
Am I going the wrong way?
But I'm just saying if people could see that.
Have you seen the opportunity cost
current extension?
I have it.
So that kind of stuff is coming out.
I was listening to a podcast

(46:08):
and I think they're making a mobile app version of it.
You know what would be really cool?
This is pretty freaking analog to do this,
but to have a guerrilla effort
by a bunch of Bitcoiners
to go around in stores
and maybe I can make them somehow cheap and have them for sale just to make it easy for people And when you go in a store you just put up these little two things next to the price of bread and milk and eggs

(46:34):
And it has a quick breakdown over the past year, once every year.
What is the price of these eggs denominated in Bitcoin?
Just do it at the store.
Just put them up, you know.
So I just I get a little bit triggered when you say that people don't have time because I really call I really call bullshit on that.

(46:56):
A ton of people spend hours doing Netflix and chill.
They spend hours watching sports.
They spend hours watching the news.
Yeah, they they they do.
They spend a lot of time giving their attention and their their brainpower over to these other things.
Yeah, this is this is where the unfortunate realization as a Bitcoin comes that you're not going to save everyone. In fact, you're not going to save most people. And you may not even save anyone. Try to save yourself because this is a situation that requires people to activate their brains. They have to care.

(47:37):
what's cool about Bitcoin is once you realize hey that's a place to start looking hey that's
where some of these answers come from there's a distinct frustration out there about what's
happening with the money and the prices of things and the cost of living and I think the trick is

(47:58):
just to shine a light on the path and somebody who really feels the pain enough and has the desire
enough to want to do something about it, well, they know where to take the next step.
And that's it.
That's the magic right there.
And the rest has to be a thing that people do on their own.
I think as a Bitcoiner, you can also maybe just try to stack a little extra for some

(48:22):
people close to you and in the future at some point when their perspective is better, then
you can help them out by saying, yeah, you know, I stacked a little stack for you too.
Um, other than that, you can't, you can't make the horse drink, right?
No, I know.
And I, and I, you know, my whole life has been that being a person that's trying to,

(48:44):
you know, change the world, if you will.
I mean, to make a better world, a world that functions better with its food systems, its
economic systems, its moral values.
It's been my whole life.
That's been my whole life's walk.
So Bitcoin is a piece of it.
But in the relative terms, no, people don't think they have time.
I agree with you.
You always have time to do something like that.

(49:04):
But let's just assume that their world operates on this base level, how to make the fruit so low hanging and so simple that they will do something with Bitcoin instead of just fiat.
And that is the question right now.
That is the crux. And that's actually an extreme danger, because as you said earlier, the way things are going, there's actually an undercurrent of anger and, frankly, violence building, building, building and manipulation building towards something else.

(49:35):
and our that's why bitcoiners have a responsibility like we all feel that we talk about it we try to
educate our friends and family you have a responsibility as an early adopter to coax
the society along and at the upper levels it's going to go to michael saylor and all these guys
that are super rich on it like they need to start building libraries public spaces oh man i'll jump

(49:58):
off. But yeah, hopefully that's kind of where it goes on the high end too. We should be pressuring
the upper echelon of Bitcoin holders to be altruistic and become the, you know, the
Carnegies and Rockefellers and create institutions. And, you know, this is the way to do it so that

(50:23):
you can bring everybody along with us. Yeah. I also think too often we do a lot of telling,
or I guess you could consider it selling. People need to sell themselves. And so as we talk about
some of these topics, we need to make sure we're asking good questions. People will come to it if
you just ask them important questions around the topic. Hubby, hey, thanks for coming up.

(50:47):
I see your hand. Go ahead, sir. Hey, what's going on, guys? Yeah, just sort of piggyback
Back off of what TC is talking about, it's a lesson everyone sort of learns is it's not that you never have time.
No one ever makes time.
And this is something you've got to make time for.
There's got to – we've become such a victim culture.
We just – we coddle everyone.

(51:09):
You know, we coddle like, oh, you mean I've got to go to the gym and I've got to eat right?
I've got to – you know, it's just – if I only had time – no, you make time for some of this stuff.
And I was talking to some guys out of Australia, you know, this one I was talking to.
And there was one guy in there.
I mean, a couple didn't do exactly what they're talking about with Bitcoin.

(51:30):
And there's a guy that came in and he's been following it for years now and saying, yeah, I don't begrudge you guys for doing it.
I mean, that is great.
But it's just it's too late for me.
Everything is too late.
And because he's, of course, looking at the price and, you know, you're trying to explain to him.
Well, yeah, man, what do you think it felt like when somebody was at 20,000 and they know they've got friends that were there at 100 or 200?

(51:57):
This seems silly.
The perspective is off.
Do your research.
And it was just negative.
Nellie, well, what about quantum computing?
You know, the quantum computing is going to come in and everything was just a negative thing.
It's like, dude, just you've read it.
Look how quickly you want to slap them out of it.
You want to do a good slap.
You're a free man.

(52:18):
there's going to come a there's a risk tolerance level okay so maybe you don't go you don't put
100 of everything start with one percent two percent but get go you don't have to know how
a car runs all the way just get in and start driving that's i guess what i'm saying get in
and start driving now yeah i really like it i i think people tend to it goes back to what i was

(52:43):
saying earlier, which is that we create our own reality. Like we create our own prisons. We
we think about things with in the way that we were conditioned to think about things.
And so I think some people are curious and others are just happy to have met this very low

(53:09):
threshold in their lives where they have shelter and food, whether that's provided by someone else
or not. But they have all of their basic needs met and they can sit around and watch Netflix
and do all these other fun things that they think are so great. I don't know if it's all their needs

(53:29):
are met. It's more they know that it's familiar. And the uncertainty of a different way is to
fear inducing like that's what happens is people get paralyzed where they're at we all know people
that stay in bad situations way longer than they ought to and it's the fear of change the fear of

(53:49):
the unknown that is a greater force than their will or their desire to fix things well everything
you guys are saying is absolutely correct but sadly this is the rationale for the elite classes
going all the way back to blue bloods in europe to have the well the perception that ultimately

(54:14):
despite the fact that there's democracies ultimately things should be controlled secretly
by them because no one else really gives a fuck come on let's be realistic that what's going on
And that pitch from the leaders resonates with the masses because they're like, yes, please fix it for me.
Come in and save me.

(54:34):
Exactly.
Govern me harder, daddy.
But that part is there's some truth to it.
There's some fucking truth to it because that's what we're all saying here as Bitcoin.
The human condition is real.
Like this is a real – we live in the real world.
There is hierarchy.
There is patriarchy.
There are these other systems at play and networks.
So to ignore that is wrong as well.

(54:56):
It is. And so you got to find a balance and trying to find that, you know, Bitcoin gives us a tool to take away a power mechanism that is fundamentally unfair and brings it back to fairness.
So that is a plus and a positive. And we can work off of those incentives to create a better world and a better structure, maybe government or communities.

(55:17):
You know, it can it can percolate throughout the entire society.
Absolutely. And the fundamental difference between Bitcoin and that rationale of the secret ruling elite who are on to something when they say that people don't care, but their conclusion is, so let's manipulate things and do things. And Bitcoin is non-coercive, open source to everybody. But it's a tool that does provide the same answer from a 180 degree angle.

(55:46):
yeah i love it i love these uh spaces where we can talk about these things and not you know not
that the news isn't fun and kicking around those topics but i think sometimes we just need to take
some time and dial it back before we end the show guys i did want to give anyone who's on stage an

(56:07):
opportunity to kind of wrap things up uh or or get something off their chest that they think belong
on this episode.
I think it's one that people maybe will go back to
and just listen because we've covered
a lot of the different topics.
And if the goal really is to educate people,

(56:27):
hopefully we've done a little of that,
but also we've caused you to think a little bit this morning.
So I wanted to give people one last stab here
before we round out the show.
Anybody with hands, I think I see BFP first
and then maybe Pubby if your hand,
If that's a new one, you can go after him.
I think what Bitcoin does, which I love, is it gives you freedom of choice or volition back to what you want to use as your currency.

(57:01):
Because nobody can stop you from acquiring Bitcoin.
And I choose Bitcoin for the future of myself and my family.
awesome uh pubby maybe your hand is uh just a phantom hand on my screen
yeah it was a phantom hand but i'll just say and this is what you see when you have some of the

(57:22):
spaces of people that are new coming in and as excited as people are that have been here for a
couple years to to go out and try to orange pill it does get tiring when you you want to start seeing
people help you can't do it for everybody and you just want to do like help yourself just a little
bit help yourself uh just get started you know we're not going to be the bitcoin puritans that

(57:44):
i'll have you you know hey how come you've been here for three days why aren't you running your
own node why don't you want cold card what but you people got to help themselves man i'm i'm just so
over the victimhood mentality and everything isn't fair everything isn't your fault man step the fuck
up and do something yeah yeah we're not the bitcoin puritans we're the bitcoin vanguard all

(58:08):
right and i'm pubby i know you're an old man all right you're tired you've been at this a long time
all right that's why you gotta you gotta light a fire under some of these youngins all right
get him going keep it up we need you we need you in the fight don't go out just yet man don't make
Don't make us old jail or you out back.

(58:28):
Hey, just buy them a beer, Pubby.
They'll come and listen to you.
No, it's all good, guys.
Everybody comes at this from a different angle, like I've been saying.
And it's just fun to, yeah, go through this and kind of kick it around.
And I think I agree with you, Pubby.
It is tiring.
I think for me it goes in fits and starts.

(58:51):
Like sometimes I'm all fired up, want to talk about stuff,
And other times I'm like, man, I'm just tired.
So what I've decided is pick my spots, not to fully give up,
and just make sure people know.
Like if they want to talk about it, they have someone to talk to.
Let's see.
We have TC up here still.

(59:14):
If you want to say anything, Coleman or 23 Skidoo,
before we close out the show for this Monday morning.
Be strong.
Be in love with life.
see the beauty see the joy laugh and be fucking fierce love y'all um i i'm gonna quote a tweet i
did a few days ago uh responsibility is radical self-reliance is revolutionary thanks for having

(59:41):
me yeah good stuff guys um maybe coleman is uh available maybe not but i'm going to take his oh
Go ahead.
No, I was going to say it was a great space today, Bob.
Thanks for everybody who came up on the panel and spoke.
I always enjoy the ones where I can just sit back and listen and absorb a lot of information.

(01:00:04):
So I hope everybody listening enjoyed the conversation as well.
And I know it's been said, but for all of you that are listening, please go up and hello everybody that's up here on the panel, excluding myself.
They're great.
They all have very high signal, no noise.
So they're just a great people to follow.
So thanks, Bob.

(01:00:25):
And thanks, everybody, for doing this.
Yeah, guys, that's it.
We'll do this all again tomorrow, 10 a.m. Eastern.
Would love for you to join us.
We do this each weekday.
And I want to remind you, we do have Bitcoin Veterans coming up with the second annual summit on November 10th and 11th in Nashville, Tennessee.

(01:00:46):
And would love for you to join us.
please visit bitcoinveterans.org forward slash summit 2025 to get involved.
You can attend, you can be a speaker, maybe you can even fire a gun.
And yeah, I think that's pretty much all we have for today.
It's a little after the hour, but I'm getting some messages here.

(01:01:11):
I think we can continue some of this stuff tomorrow.
So again, join us guys.
Appreciate all of you.
Have an awesome Monday.
Kick your week off right.
And remember, whatever you do, don't shake coin.
It's like swallowing toothpaste.

(01:01:47):
Thank you.