September 9, 2025 • 62 mins
Join the Bitcoin Veterans as they discuss events taking place over the weekend.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Thank you.
(00:30):
Oh, I guess that's me.
Good morning, everybody.
Happy Monday.
And we're back.
Give me a thumbs up if you guys can hear me okay.
And thank you for joining Bitcoin Better in Spaces, number 259, where we talk about op return.
(00:54):
No, I'm just kidding.
We talk about fear-mongering and emotional Bitcoiners spreading FUD.
Just kidding again.
And also grown men running around a field chasing after an oblong football that used to be made of pigskin.
Okay, joking again.
Just had to change the intro up a little bit for you guys, see if you're paying attention.
(01:16):
But good morning again.
Welcome in.
My name is Bob Van Kirk.
I'll be your host.
And looks like we have a few folks joining us up here on stage.
Wade, Neil, BFP, Pubby, Coleman
Good morning to you all
And I think we have Texas coming up as the co-host
We'll see about that if Eric can help us out
(01:40):
But yeah, thanks again to producer Eric for opening up the show
And let's take a look at the time chain today
It is Monday, September 8th, 2025
We are at Bitcoin block height number 913,746 with the Bitcoin price hovering just above $112,000,
(02:03):
which means you can still pick up 892 sats for each U.S. dollar.
One announcement before we get started.
Well, actually, we'll have two.
The first announcement is Bitcoin Veterans is having our second annual summit on November 10th and 11th in Nashville, Tennessee.
Would love to see you all there.
(02:24):
Tickets are live at bitcoinveterans.org forward slash summit 2025.
Also, if you'd like to get involved, looking for speakers, panel topics, volunteers.
So head there and plug your information in.
Would love to hear from you.
that summit is going to take place on November 10th and 11th.
(02:45):
Again, 10th will be the conference day and the 11th will be range day.
So that should be fun.
Get involved.
And then, yeah, other announcement.
Sometimes I miss this one.
But if you're in the audience, thank you for listening.
Would love to have you come up and speak with us.
If you'd like to, hit that microphone button in the bottom left.
(03:06):
If you have questions, comments, snide remarks, funny memes,
Throw them in the comments.
That's that purple pill in the bottom right of your screen.
If you click on that, you'll still be able to hear us.
Then you can type something in there or add an image if you don't know how spaces work.
All right.
That little PSA is out there now.
(03:30):
Wanted to go around the horn and say good morning before we hop into topics.
And if you bring up OpReturn, man, I might beat you up.
No, I'm just kidding.
Wade, go ahead.
How are you this morning?
I'm doing great, guys.
Just wanted to give a shout-out to the Ohio Bobcats, reigning MAAC champions,
taking down West Virginia Mountaineers in beautiful Athens, Ohio this weekend.
(03:53):
There you go.
All right.
Well, I opened it up with a little bit of pigskin comments, so I guess I deserve that.
Neil, how are you, sir?
I'm doing good, Bob.
I don't know.
It's just another day.
Good deal. BFP, we got any birds out there this morning?
(04:14):
Kind of. I don't know if you can hear them.
The cars are overwhelming the sound, so I can hear the birds, but I don't know if you guys can.
It's a beautiful day.
Yes, alert out there. Pubby, good morning. Welcome.
Bob, hey, you brought up the pigskin. Yes, I don't even care if it's Fiat as hell.
(04:36):
football was back so football feed is fine bitcoin for the rest thank you sir coleman
good morning hey good morning everybody hope everybody had a fantastic weekend
yeah and last but not least we have texas toast thanks for co-hosting again
good morning i'm just here to talk uh sports we got hockey coming up we got uh sec football
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You know, we're here to have a good time.
Bitcoin, what's Bitcoin?
Who cares?
Exactly.
And that's why we're going to dive right into OpReturn this morning.
Just kidding.
But I do think there's several things that we can go over from the weekend.
And, you know, anything's open here.
But I wanted to start off with a little bit of news.
(05:27):
It looks like MicroStrategy or strategy was snubbed from the S&P 500.
I think that's a topic that Coleman might like to chat about,
but also gold still near all-time highs and has outperformed Bitcoin this year.
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Coleman, any thoughts on this?
And will strategy be included in December?
Well, I would just like to say that a stop clock is right twice a day.
So I think that was my two calls.
I think MicroStrategy was going to underperform and gold was going to do quite well in the coming future.
(06:10):
So outside of risking making myself look like a fool, that's pretty much all I know.
I do think MicroStrategy will be included in the December.
I think everyone was just kind of overzealous with them getting into their first shot.
Again, they're very old school with the way that they decide this.
Again, a lot of this is over my head, but I just think Bitcoiners, we really talk about having a long-term time preference.
(06:35):
But I think that goes out the window.
Anytime someone mentions something that's bullish for Bitcoin in general, we just lose our shit.
And we just think that it's going to happen immediately.
So I think sometimes just taking a step back and looking at everything and kind of taking our time and make sure things are done right.
Michael Saylor hasn't done the right blood
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ritual with the old men in Nantucket yet
so he's got that scheduled, they're going to go
do some laps around an owl in the woods and then
he'll be accepted into the club
Yep, I'm just
bringing it on myself this morning guys, everybody's in like a wild
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mood and I love it. This is really good stuff. So thank you for that. Any other thoughts on
strategy, gold, performance of other assets since we're having such a good time here this morning so
far? All right, then we will move on to the next topic. Let's see. Oh, by the way, hey,
(07:47):
Since we have this up here, you guys might see a new face on the stage.
We have Eric up here, and Eric is running two handles.
But follow him.
He is our producer.
Did it all last week, doing a bang-up job.
And, yeah, thanks for being up here, Eric.
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But, guys, do follow him.
Just wanted to give him a shout-out.
Thanks for all the work he's doing behind the scenes to help out with the show.
Good to get you up here on stage, too.
So, you know, one thing I wanted to cover today that could be fun, maybe not,
but you see a lot of turmoil going around the world.
And over the weekend, we got news that Japan's prime minister is resigning.
(08:38):
UK's deputy prime minister resigned.
France is broke.
And Canada's Prime Minister, Mark Carney, is giving out stimulus to all of the poor Canadians out there.
What do you guys make of this?
We hear about, you know, upcoming things in U.S. financial markets.
(09:00):
We've got CPI coming out this week, PPI coming out.
The Fed is expected to cut.
I don't want to get too heavy into macro, but are you guys, what kind of sense are you getting for what could come?
What do you guys think about all this stuff going on?
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Yeah, I mean, if we could get Yomar up here to cover some of this stuff, he's been slacking on our geopolitics coverage.
But, you know, it seems like we're getting these teasers over and over again.
And I can't, this is every, it feels like every weekend now we get a teaser for Gaza,
ceasefire in Gaza.
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That doesn't seem to end.
Ukraine, it's like now Macron thinks he's going to be the new Napoleon and, you know,
head off the Russians.
Yeah, I'm sure that'll go great.
The French are getting their butts whooped in Africa and getting displaced.
(10:02):
You know, it's not looking good for Europe.
It seems like a wave of populism is definitely upon Europe.
We'll see how the AFD and all these German elections and stuff that are coming up, how they go.
But it all seems to be trending one direction, which is kind of this re-migration push and, you know, Europeans trying to claw their country back.
(10:27):
But we'll see. We got this CBDC coming up for the euro.
It goes live in October, right? I think if I remember right.
So that's coming up. Pretty wild times.
But I don't know. What do you think, Bob? What do you think is going on? Where are we going?
(10:48):
Yeah, it's it's really interesting. You know, for as many people hate the tariffs and what Trump's doing.
I mean, he's just going to be able to stick his boot on the necks of a lot of these guys.
I think if you look into the Japan prime minister thing, it does have a lot to do with their economy.
They want to raise interest rates, which would send panic throughout all markets, I think.
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People are used to that cheap money, and it's interesting.
Obviously, turmoil in the U.K.
yeah France sounds like it's going to have to get bailed out by the IMF
we've talked at length on this show about
all of the civil unrest and I would say
criminality that's going on over there
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seems like they can't get their act together and I do think
Canada it's interesting like the pride that you see
out of Kearney maybe some we have some Canadians
in the audience that would like to come up and talk about it,
but it seems like he's not willing to bend the knee and would rather just print money
and give out more stimmies to people in Canada, which we know the long-term effects of that.
(12:03):
So I don't know.
I think, yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, with Canada specifically, I saw this crazy number that in the last 10 years,
36% or 38% of their population has been imported.
Um, that's insane. So I don't know if we're going to get some more trucker protests. It seems like
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the Canadians only wake up in the winter and the summer they're like, you know, just sunbathing in
the mountains all summer and like being in the woods or something. But once the winter they get
bored, they start drinking and then they, uh, you know, start getting all feisty. So who knows if we
see something there, but something's got to be done. They they're either going to go full bore
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this direction and in another five years it'll be 50 of their population is foreign born in 15 years
that's crazy that's your culture is gone you are not what you were at that point so we'll see if
they can uh you know spin up some some nativism but i don't have really any faith in them they're
too nice uh they don't have their like hockey animal spirits anymore so we'll see maybe the
(13:13):
hockey season i'll get them going yeah they're not even allowed to go out in the woods anymore
So I'm not I'm not even sure what's going on there.
Pubby, I saw you come off mute before hands went up.
So I'm going to go to you first and then Neil after that.
Yeah, you know, I was going to bring up that same stat.
I saw that Texas toast had there that 36 percent.
And what an insane number to immigrate a third of your population.
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To put in perspective, that'd be, you know, bringing 100 million people into the U.S.
All right.
150, we'll say it's going up.
And it's unsustainable. And there's jokes about, look at the doctors and lawyers bringing in. But it all dovetails nicely into these unelected officials from the WEF and IMF and one to roll out the CBCs and more control is you're importing a population that just requires government assistance.
(14:06):
You know, barely they'll do some of the menial work and, you know, they're going to maybe drive Uber.
But here's the thing.
Once the population gets to that point, once by demographics, you know, they come in and they start to outpopulate others that are there.
Man, it is full on anyone's game.
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Yeah, it is sad to see Western Europe.
It's sad to see what's going on in England and Ireland.
And, you know, there's a guy that called somebody a Muppet and got arrested because they were offended by words.
It's sad to watch this history that, you know, those that are older grew up watching.
And no one has that sense of place and home right now.
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And it's unfortunate.
Yeah, thanks for that.
Totally agree.
Neil, what say you?
Yeah, I was going to kind of hit on that the same thing with like, you know,
you said all that stuff like what comes to my mind and it's just like all the craziness in the
world it's like we talk about stacking stats we talk about you know accumulating wealth and it's
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like you know social capital that's the greatest that's the most sovereign wealth of all and it's
like you know what are you doing to stack kids you know what are you doing to have children to
actually contribute to
the propagation
of civilizations That really important too That the whole reason why we do this in the first place What the point of wealth It like that really important too And it you know that kind of the whole reason why we do this in the first place Like what the point of wealth You know it like if your answer is Lambos that fine But like you just have to accept that that is you know
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the most, you're kind of stepping outside, you're isolating yourself from civilization,
society itself. Like, when you start having family, when you like, that's an investment into
you are stepping into, you know, a greater whole. And I mean, that's, that's where you find meaning.
Like, it's, it's kind of crazy. Like, and even just like a couple hundred years ago, like people
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used to measure, like, you know, when you would meet someone new, and they say, like, how many
kids do you have? How many children do you have? And like, like, that was the sign of your, your,
that was your status, you know, how big of a family you had. And it's just kind of like,
we've kind of completely flipped that on its head and it's like, you know, the dual income,
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you know, no kids. It's like when you elevate that, it changes, you know, it inverts the
priorities of a society. And it's just kind of like, you know, us as Bitcoiners, we're going to
have monetary potency. And it's like what we choose to do with it is that like that's going
to dig that's going to sail the ship direct the ship and uh that's a responsibility that's a duty
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and if you're not thinking about that uh you know i i kind of i don't know i don't we're not the same
but well it's making people think like what what nationalism really is and kind of you know how to
think about that and it this country was built if you're an american if you're if you've had
generations here, this country, your ancestors built it for their posterity. And if you have
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no posterity, then it's like, well, you have no real stake in the country. So, you know,
they kind of go alongside right with each other. So you'll see a lot of patriots and people that
love this country and don't want it to, you know, want it to be better for their children.
And that's kind of this national uprising, I think, that we're seeing with nationalism is people getting fed up.
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But I don't know how Bitcoin, it's going to help.
It's like, are we seeing a rise in Bitcoin nationalism?
Or are we becoming a micronation inside of America?
Or is it going to populate and permeate through the entire system?
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And I'm betting on the latter that everybody's going to get on board one way or the other through the financial markets or through all these other things.
But it's interesting to see the rise of nationalism kind of in this stage.
I agree. I do think it's a long game, though.
You know, it's especially like with football coming back.
(18:30):
I think you see people just getting out there on the fantasy apps and betting.
and they'd much rather do that than take the sure bet and buy Bitcoin.
This is what we're up against a little bit.
I don't know.
It's certainly interesting.
BFP, I see you're agreeing.
(18:52):
I'd rather you fight me, but did you have thoughts on this?
Yeah, I do.
I have a 19-year-old son who was betting on stuff like that.
And it's comical to me because he borrowed $100 from me recently.
He said he'd pay me back by the weekend.
I'm like, I don't loan money.
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That's just not for me.
I'd rather put it into Bitcoin.
And then I loaned it to him anyway just, you know, because he's my son.
And I don't know what he needed it for.
But here he is gambling on these just ridiculous, you know, fantasy football things.
and he paid me back 50, but he still owes me 50 from, this was last weekend.
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And he has a small amount of Bitcoin that I gave him as his early inheritance to teach him how this money stuff works.
But it's just the culture is so they indoctrinate these children all through the 15,000 hours of schooling.
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And, you know, it's mostly you learn more from your friends and peers than you do the teachers.
And it's just the culture we live in.
And it's as much as I try and teach them about Bitcoin and how the financial stuff works.
It's like they're not interested until it pains them, you know.
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So we'll see how that plays out.
You need to read your son the parable of, I forget what the parable is,
but where he gives them money and they come back with less.
And my good and faithful servant, I forget all the specifics.
The talents.
He needs to read that.
Yeah, it's called the parable of the talents.
Yeah, that's in the four.
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Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, I think it's in there.
Yeah, I hear you.
Well, now I'm going to use it as if he ever wants to borrow money.
I'd be like, you still owe me 50 from, I don't know how long it's been.
(21:08):
Yeah, any other thoughts on this topic, guys?
I think if you really look at it, all these things do play together,
but we, I don't think you're going to stop.
Like it's a big marketing machine when you look at it.
That's all these professional sports organizations are.
(21:30):
They're giant marketing organizations and they do wield a lot of power
because all the fiat that's sloshing around.
And so I think that this is one of those places where just in my life,
I'll say, like, since becoming more in tune with Bitcoin, I care less and less all the time about sports ball, as I call it.
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And what's funny about it, my grandfather was a minor in the league player for the St. Louis Cardinals.
And so big into sports, in love with Major League Baseball.
and he always looks at me funny now when I say, you know, hey, I haven't paid attention.
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I don't care much about sports ball.
He kind of looks at me cross-eyed.
So I do think for some of us, you know, it's becoming less and less of a thing,
but it's still pervasive.
I mean, my kids are really into fantasy, not like the daily betting, far too young for that,
but they, you know, have their teams and want to talk about it and all that stuff.
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And I'm like, guys, there's so much more to life than spending, you know,
an entire day or a weekend dealing with, again,
grown men running around a field and chasing after a ball.
Well, it's a social thing for them.
It's like it's, you know, it's something like the weather that you can talk about
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and just have like a normal conversation that isn't political or too heavy.
It's like it's very light. So I get it.
But we're in more serious times, I think.
I think that honeymoon kind of like laissez faire,
everything's going to be hippy, dippy, hunky dory in America, I think is kind of over.
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And it's like you get into this doomer mindset,
but you have to kind of steal yourself from some of this
and wake up. It's like you want to just shake people. Your wealth is being eroded. You're in a
bed of quicksand and you're not going to be able to survive or raise a family in the future if you
(23:48):
don't get on solid ground. And it's like, so enough with this betting and betting on frivolous
things. And yeah, I get it. It's nice to talk about. I prefer the weather personally for those
kinds of conversations. And then I dive straight into Bitcoin and how everything's going to shit.
And you need to protect yourself and your family. But that's just me. That's just me.
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Yeah, we bring it. We bring it on ourselves, right? We're like, hey, the sky is falling.
And then people are like, okay, hey, I just wanted to check out and look at stats on a phone
and see if I'm ahead. BFP, I think I see your hand still, sir. Go ahead.
Yeah, my son, who I was just talking about, he pointed out the ridiculous amounts of money that the NFL throws at the tele screens and the fans and the stadiums and everything.
(24:41):
I just thought it was a very sign of the times.
And another thing, I saw the commercials are so much better.
You know, I actually kind of forced myself to pay attention to the normie stuff nowadays because I got so disinterested.
I just lost all touch with sports ball and all that stuff.
(25:03):
And I just had head down reading books.
But I saw a commercial with Patrick Mahomes on the insurance Allstate or one of those insurance things he does.
And it was hilarious because the Bitcoin meme bled into the commercials.
The girl's announcing him.
He's like, she's like, what's your name?
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And he's like, Patrick.
And she goes, oh, let's give it up for Patrick.
He plays sports ball.
Like she had no idea who he was, Patrick Mahomes.
And it was just a good play on, you know, I don't know who this guy is.
He's just a sports ball guy.
Yeah, man, fortune favors the bold.
I saw Grayscale in some commercials during football.
(25:47):
I don't know.
They're starting to make a comeback.
So we're starting to see this kind of swell of crypto, Bitcoin, maybe treasury company advertisements coming down through the fall.
It'd be funny to see that Matt Damon back on the screen, you know, getting after it.
Oh, yeah.
(26:07):
Remember Tom Brady for FTX.
Wade, I see your hand.
I did want to get to this other topic, too, but do you have something on this one that we should hear about?
Yeah, I just wanted to bring up a bit in the news, the Disney and its vertical integration of its entertainment and its sports betting and whatnot.
(26:34):
And it's really a sign of the times because, I mean, we can historically go back and look at this country.
We've had sports for, you know, centuries here in the United States, but it hadn't necessarily degenerated into an area where you have vertical integration of media companies incorporating sports betting inside their like multi-linked platform, their cross, you know, cross-platform access that they have.
(26:59):
And so the thing that's a little bit worrisome is when you look at like the it's one thing for football and fantasy stuff to be a nice little side distraction or five dollar bet or something like that.
But we're looking at like, you know, Disney incorporating gambling and sports betting into this app with all of the with all like the cross pollination that they have and then slamming it in people's face.
(27:23):
It's going to be an addiction problem.
yeah sadly i think it already is uh tau uh thanks for coming up i see your hands there go ahead
sorry about that um yeah no this is a interesting topic i wanted to add
weigh in on my two stats here um so i play poker uh i go to the casino i love you know
(27:52):
playing on craps here and there.
And I've also sports bet it in the past,
basketball, football.
And so I want to kind of frame it a little bit differently.
I do think there is a place for it
in the sense where it's a form of entertainment.
(28:15):
Now, you have to be responsible for your money,
however you're going to manage your money so that you can take care of your life and build your life, etc.
But there are times where you want to be able to have that sort of entertainment,
(28:35):
that enjoyment of just putting a bet down.
And it is exciting.
And I don't know how many of you guys have betted on a football game,
maybe during a Super Bowl or something.
But it is exciting because every play that happens in your favor, you cheer for that team.
(28:59):
You're so excited.
Every basket that goes in, you're like, wow, this is so cool.
And that high that you get, it's an interesting feeling.
And I actually love that feeling.
And then when you have poker, you have some good hands, you can win, things like that.
but that's just a feeling, right?
(29:19):
That's just an form of entertainment, okay?
That's not all it is.
And so that entertainment, I think it's no different than you going to do something else,
like you go spend some tickets to the amusement park,
or you go and, you know, whatever you like, you go to a concert or whatever, right?
Some people, they like to gather with their buddies, watch a game, right?
(29:43):
And put some money on the game to get that additional sort of excitement.
And that's it.
It's just a form of entertainment.
It's not being irresponsible.
Although there are people who take it to the stream and think, oh, they can predict everything.
And then that's where people get in trouble, right?
And then that's being not responsible for your finances, etc.
(30:06):
Right?
I do think this whole sports betting thing, whatever it is,
there is a place, right, for everybody if they're interested in it,
but not something to, hey, I'm going to build my wealth doing this.
So, yeah, that's my two cents.
Thanks.
Thanks.
(30:27):
Yeah, I think it's good.
You know, I guess I don't want to paint the picture that this is all, like, horrible.
I think we've kind of touched on it.
You know, it is a social thing.
But I do fear that too many people, especially young people,
do bet too much, right?
And they're taking their entertainment a little too far.
(30:47):
So I think that's a good frame.
Tao did want to transition topics, though, kind of reset the room.
Guys, if you would like to come up, we'd love to have you hit that microphone
button in the bottom left.
Otherwise, throw your comments in that purple pill.
But the topic I wanted to cover is this well and mainly I wanted to hear from Wade on this but this news that came out that we had I think it was upwards of 475 illegal
(31:24):
and they were not of Hispanic descent.
It sounds like they were from South Korea.
But they overstayed their welcome at a Hyundai plant in Georgia.
And interesting to see that despite these folks providing economic activity, that the Trump administration didn't give any warning to Hyundai and say, hey, you need to fix these people who have overstayed their visas.
(31:53):
They just went in and rounded them all up.
And so Wade had sent me an article before the show that kind of indicated maybe one of the main reasons for that is wage suppression, right?
Hyundai was getting an unfair advantage by, you know, allowing these people to stay and not having to pay as much in wages maybe.
(32:17):
And so maybe I teed that up too much for you, Wade, but wanted to hear a little bit of your thoughts on this.
And I think it is interesting for the audience in relation to the other things we've been talking to about Bitcoin this morning and what's going on around the world as well.
Yeah, Bob, I kind of want to link this historically to some of the concerns I had regarding the historical Biden ships and infrastructure funding, because this plant in question received $3 billion in tax credits to produce these batteries for EV and hybrid vehicles.
(32:56):
And one of my largest concerns with the new administration coming in was that they should have put a pause and or seized or had a significant amount of these funds returned.
Historically, many of the departmental inspector generals had issued warnings stating that this was one of the most it was one of the largest and fastest distribution of funds from the Treasury for these types of stimulative projects.
(33:22):
And I think we're just going to continue to see billions, if not trillions of additional dollars of waste, fraud and abuse out there.
This looks like it was one of the largest, most successful immigration and wage suppression fraud investigations going on in the southeast.
(33:43):
There were hundreds of people that were detained for probable cause down there.
Obviously, ongoing investigation. We're not going to know the full details of it until we get there.
But I had some serious concerns about major subcontractors for these prime contractors that have received billions of dollars in tax credits and government handouts.
(34:05):
And effectively, what they're doing is, one, I'm not saying it's an issue that many of these projects have been moved to the south, which are right to work states.
Right. So you're kind of carving out you're getting some wage suppression there already by not using union labor.
But now you're getting to the point where you're using you're using a foreign illegal craft nonunion labor.
(34:28):
And even the local even the local construction firms aren't getting the opportunity to bid on some of these projects because it's all effectively antitrust labor wage suppression fraud.
So that that was my kind of 10,000 foot take on it. So happy to hear your guys thoughts.
yeah go ahead texas yeah i mean we see this all across the country um you know i have
(34:53):
family in a small town and uh in the heartland and you know the same kind of things are going
on in these factories all over the place um you just see it you know i saw it at the
at the dry cleaners. You see it in these places where it's like, you know, families are living in
(35:15):
these really cheap apartments that don't have washers and dryers. And that's where you see
them all coming in. And you're like, who are these people that are in this town? And they're all
foreign. And none of them were born there. And where are they working? They're working at the
factories. And, you know, you know that if it's if it's done legally or illegally, they aren't from
(35:39):
here. They're getting subsidized to work there. That's the big thing is the subsidies. So it's
exactly to your point. It's suppressing the American wage. And and I think hopefully they're
they're going to do some stuff to to go against that. But, yeah, I don't see that as a one off
problem. This is only the second major news headline I've seen. If you remember, maybe it
(36:04):
was three or four months ago, we had that Tyson plant that they did the same thing at. And so
this is just the ones that are making the headlines. But this has happened on a mass
scale across this country. So you would hope that as some of this stuff gets cleared out,
You know, you start to get the average American getting getting an increase in their wage and able to take care of their families the way it's supposed to be.
(36:32):
And just thinking for the in the attempt for the administration, this administration and the previous administration to reassure and step up our industrial priorities, critical defense, critical national defense priorities.
(36:54):
we're realizing that we have no labor to do it. We don't have the qualified craft labor.
We're not willing to pay the qualified craft labor wage to reshore the industrial and production capacity that we need to even be functional.
I mean, the craft labor jobs that we're talking about down there, it's no wonder that they got ratted out to the feds because you're talking about, you know, 50, 100, $150 craft union wage positions down there.
(37:24):
And the workers have been completely and even the American construction firms have been completely cut out of the process.
I mean, this is a direct handout from the United States Treasury in billion dollar tax credits to foreign firms that are going to engage in fraud.
(37:46):
Yeah. And you wonder why, you know, this is maybe it hasn't gotten as bad in the United States.
I mean, we were talking earlier about nationalism.
It's not just, you know, the turnover, importation of people, you know, other nationalities into countries.
It's also stuff like this.
It's the jobs.
(38:08):
Tao, I see your hand.
Go ahead.
Ooh, this is an interesting topic, very touchy topic, too.
um so i want to preface it with like um because we're talking about that the hyundai factory right
that the workers there that they're not necessarily legal um or the or their or their visa or something
(38:30):
expire so i do have um some uh i guess uh you know people that know work been working um doing
doing all our sort of gardening and landscaping for um many many years over 15 to 20 probably 20
(38:52):
years they're great people i love them etc i don't know their documentation situation whatever i don't
really care, things like that. But in regards to this whole topic in general, you know,
one of the questions we'll have to ask ourselves is, do people have the right to pursue happiness?
(39:12):
Right? Because I do think however these people are coming through or coming in,
that's all they're trying to do is they're trying to build a life for their family, you know,
and pursue, you know, just like everyone else is.
Every day you do something to build a life and pursue some sort of happiness.
(39:36):
Do people, like, on a basic level have that right?
Well, the only problem with that is, well, you are doing it illegally, right, against the law.
and that also affects the people who are currently, let's say, in the U.S.
(40:00):
Whether it's businesses, competing businesses, or jobs,
or jobs where there might not be as many to go around, etc.
And that's maybe a more deeper topic as far as the competition goes,
But it does have some impact, of course. It does have some impact. And we don't know how that dynamic will shift. Let's say no illegals came in, etc. Right. So but then we also have the law. Right. We wrote laws for a specific reason. And if you have laws written.
(40:41):
what's the purpose?
I mean, what's the point
if you're not going to enforce it, right?
It's like, I'm going to write it,
but forget about it.
Let's do whatever.
That doesn't make sense.
So, you know,
I'm going to come down,
like, if I had to kind of make
a sort of, like, opinion,
and I'll be completely honest,
(41:03):
because I'm not from the U.S. either, right?
So, I do think
people need to follow the law.
I mean, that's why we wrote it.
And if we feel that, hey, it's too strict
or whatever may be the case,
then it needs to be updated, right?
But if we have laws written,
(41:24):
the point is to, you know,
abide by those laws.
And people, you know,
will get their opportunities
as long as they follow the rules.
So that's just my opinion.
It's a very complex topic.
Yeah, I mean, it's not to say that people aren't like trying to, you know, there aren't good people, you know, everywhere.
(41:48):
There's a lot of good people.
There's some bad apples.
Like when nobody's making the argument that like all these people are evil and need to be killed or like that's crazy.
But, you know, you kind of get down to what you were talking about at the end there.
It's like why do we have laws?
What is a nation?
It gets to these fundamental levels where it's like, okay, why are we here?
What are we doing here? Is this just a free for all? And everybody, no, you create a nation and you have laws, you know, that is a creation of you and your people and your posterity and your ancestors.
(42:19):
And you want it for your children. So then we get back to that.
And it's like, OK, that's why we have laws to protect our citizens and allow them to freely, you know, pursue their their happiness.
That's where that's where I kind of come in on this. And it's like you're you're starting to scratch at it there at the end there.
And it's not to say that everybody's bad. We're all humans. Like it's especially if you're a Christian, you understand the human nature of everybody.
(42:45):
And we're all created equal in the eyes of God. But there's a proper way to do things.
And we have to kind of, you know, treat people with with some humility and humanity and respect.
But if you have if you want to, you know, have a nation, you have to be able to defend it as well.
as well. Yeah. And I do think it can be argued that some of these people may be victims themselves.
(43:12):
Now, I might get a lot of pushback on that, but I think, you know, if you look at the type of visas
that they overstayed, they were training visas. So essentially these people were, you know, brought
in to be trained and presumably to be sent back to factories in other countries to work for Hyundai.
And so back to Wade's point, I think while it's fine for people to be, you know, pursuing happiness and all that stuff, that's great.
(43:40):
I totally think that's fine.
It's really these corporations that are taking advantage and impacting workers and other companies by, you know,
taking handouts from the government that we're all paying for because it's printed money.
And, and again, I don't want to paint it as, hey, like all these major corporations, but like in these instances, I think maybe the broader point here is like, should we be incentivizing major corporations if they can't follow the rules?
(44:18):
And what are the implications?
So as much as we want jobs here from these corporations, a lot of them have hollowed us out labor-wise in other ways.
And then now that they've repatriated or come back and are saying, hey, we're going to create a bunch of jobs,
(44:39):
if they're not playing by the rules, are they really creating the jobs that they said they would with the stimulus that we're giving them?
So, again, I'm just kind of I'm not trying to place blame like solely anywhere.
But I do think like as much as we can have bleeding hearts for these people, because I do think some of them are probably victims.
(45:00):
I do think like the bigger story is all the corruption that goes on between the government and unnecessary printing and money creation and, you know, helping major corporations that are really just taking advantage of the American people and the American worker.
(45:20):
So anyway, that was a long thing.
I think we have a couple of hands.
I'll give Wade a chance and then BFP.
I'll close out on this, Bob.
I'll be a little harsher than you.
I will attribute some blame because Hyundai as a prime contractor has a
contractual, if not legal obligation to be in compliance with the e-check,
the e-check controls, the immigration controls for their employees.
(45:44):
And they, they have a responsibility to take control of their subcontractors,
which they clearly have not been in control of their subcontractors.
Yeah. Thanks for that. And I just want to be careful.
I'm not an attorney or don't know that much about immigration.
I just am kind of like a lot of other people who pay attention to the news.
(46:04):
BFP, go ahead, sir.
Yeah, I think it's a hot topic right now, especially.
But I have a brother-in-law that is full-blooded Filipino,
and he earned his way over here through years and years of just tumultuous,
you know, check in the boxes.
(46:25):
and his mom married a, my mother-in-law married a serviceman,
you know, my wife's dad was in the Navy, I think.
Everybody in the military is the Filipino mafia, dude.
Yeah so whatever happened it took him he had to live with his grandma without his mom for I don know at least a decade or more And finally now he has his citizenship and earned it the right way
(46:56):
You know, he works for Herschel and he's got a family, he's doing well. But that being said,
I don't agree with this flip-flopping like the Biden administration invites everyone in.
And now we have California filled, you know, with immigrants that are get, you know, hoodwinked.
(47:17):
I mean, they're giving them money, putting them on planes, just the absurdity.
And then the next administration comes in and flips.
It's red team, blue team, and it's got to stop because every four years flip-flopping like that,
it's not right to do that to people and families.
and it's just sad to see.
(47:38):
Then they, you know, they show up to try and get their stuff in line
and then they get arrested and thrown back at the place
where they're trying to be good citizens.
So it's just a hodgepodge and it's all messed up.
They need to, like, stand on business and be about, like,
(47:59):
get a good policy and stick with it, not this flip-flopping crap.
yep it is uh there's lots of problems out there uh maybe we can finish out the show here with some
good news uh sounds like uh a another solo miner found a block what do you guys think about that
(48:20):
as we try to transition away from uh this topic um why why are people still mining guys when uh
the fees are so low like what's the economic incentive i'm just curious like what are your
guys's thoughts on this we've had sustained very low fee rates on chain and uh yet the hash rate
(48:40):
last week hit all new all-time highs and pulled back a little bit now but still uh maybe we can
finish off with this topic what are you guys thoughts on this yeah that one guy got a cool
300 uh u.s guck bucks so that's pretty awesome um that's basically it energy monetization where
(49:02):
there was a where their energy could not be monetized efficiently before.
Now it is.
I think that combined with or now it's able to.
And that combined with like the the state kind of incentives of being a part of the
network and having their ability to pass blocks through, I think, is going to become more
(49:25):
more prevalent and, you know, kind of define the economics of mining for the next decade,
especially as the block reward subsidy diminishes.
I think all this stuff about, you know, JPEGs and data, I think it's a lot of its noise.
You know, it's missing the forest for the trees.
(49:48):
And I think a lot of different stuff's going on with mining.
So I wish it was me that mined that block.
Unfortunately, it wasn't.
As soon as I heard that, probably like a lot of you, I went to my and saw my little solo mining wallet to see if it populated with three Bitcoin.
And it did not.
(50:09):
So I was sad.
But maybe I'll get them next time.
It's the little engine that could.
That's what I like about it.
It's the little guy story.
3.125.
Texas, Texas toast.
3.12125 Bitcoin
I feel like I won the day
I got you to come up here
What are your thoughts?
(50:30):
Happy Monday
In the year 2025
It is still
More profitable
Even with 3.125
Subsidy
Than it was at 6.25
Subsidy in the last epoch
The number go up
A very important ingredient in this equation.
(50:52):
Also, you know, it still remains if you have really affordable energy to supply as the inputs to this activity, you can basically generate Bitcoin at a discount to what the exchange market is doing.
And this is the primary incentive for mining.
(51:13):
You ask the question, why are people mining?
I give you the number one answer.
to get Bitcoin at a discount.
You know, I actually am quite happy mining,
pointing my hash rate to Ocean,
where I get paid out direct in the Coinbase transaction from the protocol.
So I get these so-called virgin sats straight from the protocol, no KYC.
(51:37):
And there's some more great reasons to mine.
I think it's actually a thing where over time,
that's a more and more important factor.
You know, just going and creating a Coinbase account
or a Gemini account or a Kraken account,
like just, you know, KYC-ing and buying on the exchange
(51:59):
is looking like a very much less attractive option too
if you can actually get some Bitcoin in cold storage from the source.
So, yeah, there's a ton of reasons why this hash rate continues
and will continue to keep piling up.
It's pretty tremendous.
(52:21):
We are actually just creeping up on the one Zeta hash
on these longer average readings of hash rate,
which is really incredible.
You know, we had just a couple days ago
a massive difficulty increase of almost 5%,
and that was at already all-time high difficulty.
(52:43):
So we're at screamingly high difficulty right now.
And meanwhile, in the last 24 hours, 158 blocks when we only expect 144.
So, you know, this network is a monster.
And I would say that hash rate chart and the trend of just where, you know, that activity subsector of the Bitcoin landscape is going is probably the most bullish thing ever.
(53:12):
switch out your price chart for a hash rate chart it's it's pretty damn bullish cheers
yeah i love that take and maybe there's some other people that want to chime in but i think
it's really good perspective for folks and especially for people who haven't been maybe
paying attention or don't know how bitcoin works i think we get a variety of people in the space
(53:34):
and uh love all you guys for being here each day uh listening to us at 10 a.m eastern um
We'll do it again tomorrow.
But I do think that it's really interesting when you zoom out on the mining space.
And, you know, a lot of people have their tail between their legs because they say, hey, you know, this is all corporatized.
(53:57):
It's all run by a bunch of very large-scale miners.
It's further consolidated by, you know, mining pools that everyone's a part of.
And, you know, it's a little scary.
And so people choose not to pay attention or to mine or understand how these things work.
But I think some of what you said, TC, actually all of what you said was well put.
(54:21):
And people should really pay attention to this part of Bitcoin.
I wonder why, like considering everything you laid out there for us, TC, why we're still having this op return debate,
why people aren't talking more about the mining space and how we're hitting new all-time highs
(54:42):
and all the bullish stuff that you just brought up.
And I don't want to go down that path, but I just feel like people are bored
and a certain segment of Bitcoin Twitter has stoked a lot of emotions in people,
unnecessarily maybe in some cases.
(55:02):
And I don't know.
I think these are the things that we should be talking about on spaces, maybe even more so than what we spent the first 50 minutes talking about.
So I really do appreciate you coming up here and sharing.
Yeah, go ahead.
I saw – I'm trying to remember who it was.
I don't remember.
(55:23):
But on my feed this morning, somebody was saying, if you're new to Bitcoin, this infighting is normal.
It's their market.
This is literally – it's crab market, honestly.
Like I think crab market infighting is nastier than bear market infighting because bear market infighting, a lot of the tourists go home and it's really just the diehards remaining.
(55:47):
But in this crab market where we have these spurts of bull market activity and a bunch of new people crowd in and then suddenly, oh, heaven forbid, we go sideways for a month.
You know, everybody loses their damn mind. But, you know, I mean, honestly, let's not overlook the fact that, you know, you're talking about a bunch of people who care very dearly about this thing in Bitcoin.
(56:11):
So if they perceive some kind of threat, especially if they perceive an internal threat from people who, you know, should be, you know, looking out for Bitcoin, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to really get, you know, passionately drawn into that conflict.
And I think it's to be expected.
(56:36):
And don't disregard it because in every pleb's heart is their own understanding and context for Bitcoin.
And people really do put their whole lives and invest a lot of themselves in it.
So expect impassioned, bloody, drawn-out fistfights.
(56:58):
and that's, I think, to be expected.
It's just part of the deal.
This too shall pass.
Rico, how are you doing this morning?
Yeah, good afternoon.
Good morning.
I'm doing great.
I appreciate TC's sobering voice.
(57:20):
I agree.
Like, Hashrate's doing fine.
The network's doing fine.
I think that we haven't realized that Bitcoin has been co-opted by Wall Street
and there's a lot of volatility, I would say.
And that's what we're feeling.
I mean, Bitcoin has always been kind of infighting
between the plebs for the greater good.
But I think now it's just become speculative
(57:41):
and everybody's just trying to figure out
who has the alpha and who's making the right decisions.
And if you think about it,
Bitcoin's just, it's for you, it's individual.
So it's not, there's no general,
like encapsulating way to be in Bitcoin.
You just do you.
but right now everybody's signaling that you should be doing this and we are in this crab
bull market with this sideways chop that feels like it's forever and i have been there cycles
(58:08):
before and this always happens but with the capacity the amount of people coming into this
space it just feels so intense that um people just really need to take a break for their own cycle
their mental state.
So, yeah, I just wanted to
reiterate that. Don't take it
so serious, guys.
(58:29):
That's not...
Take it serious when it comes to
how you were in Bitcoin, but don't
take everybody else so serious because
that's what it is. Everybody's taking
way too much input on everybody
else's outputs
and just grain of salt, guys.
No. Satoshi is
like your two sats. It doesn't have
(58:49):
to be your entire life on a conversation that you're so right like we're so early and most of
us are completely wrong um and we're just trying to figure out you know who to kind of in a sense
uh connect with in the space and you know like i said it's just everybody's just so focused on
(59:10):
everybody else's opinions that they're not even just taking care of their lonely selves so
anyways good conversation
and yeah hash rates up guys like
price does follow hash we have
like the highest stock to
flow ratio in any commodity
any valuation
of anything ever created if you don't know
what the stock to flow is it's
(59:32):
basically how much it would
take how much energy would take to
recreate an
asset or commodity
and bitcoin has the highest
stock to flow it's at 120 where gold
is at 60.
So we're way ahead of the curve.
Yeah, it's a really good perspective.
(59:52):
And I want to start wrapping it up here.
We're just past the hour.
Do try to keep these to an hour if possible,
just to respect people's time.
But do enjoy everybody come up here and sharing their thoughts
and everyone who listens.
Anybody on the stage want to give some final thoughts
before we wrap it up for this Monday?
(01:00:14):
Good to go. Happy Monday. Have a good week. See you tomorrow.
Your fantasy football team has one last chance tonight, I guess.
I'll wrap it up with that since we've been joking about the NFL coming back into into season.
(01:00:36):
But guys want to give another reminder and shout out to the Bitcoin Veterans second annual summit, November 10th and 11th.
Visit BitcoinVeterans.org forward slash summit 2025.
Tickets are live.
So we'd love to see you there.
And that's a wrap.
Again, want to thank the speakers.
(01:00:57):
Want to thank everybody who listens in each day.
Hopefully we make this fun and interesting.
We haven't really spent as much time talking about news lately, so it was kind of fun.
We've been more topical, which has also been fun.
Hopefully you guys are enjoying it.
If you guys have any input for the show, if you want to tell me I suck, just DM me.
I do like hearing from you, especially the music that Eric has to play every day.
(01:01:21):
Try to give him some input, some direction.
It was kind of fun to hear a country song, 21 Summer, even though it doesn't really feel like it
because people are all pissed off at each other about Op Return.
So anyway, we try to have fun on the show.
We try to laugh at ourselves and each other.
But we'll do this all again tomorrow, 10 a.m. Eastern.
(01:01:43):
Please do join us.
And that's all I have for today.
I want to wish you a great Monday.
And as always, do not shit going.
It's like pumping kerosene into an unleaded tank.
All people that use fiat currency as a store of value, we call them a core.
Thank you.
(00:30):
Oh, I guess that's me.
Good morning, everybody.
Happy Monday.
And we're back.
Give me a thumbs up if you guys can hear me okay.
And thank you for joining Bitcoin Better in Spaces, number 259, where we talk about op return.
(00:54):
No, I'm just kidding.
We talk about fear-mongering and emotional Bitcoiners spreading FUD.
Just kidding again.
And also grown men running around a field chasing after an oblong football that used to be made of pigskin.
Okay, joking again.
Just had to change the intro up a little bit for you guys, see if you're paying attention.
(01:16):
But good morning again.
Welcome in.
My name is Bob Van Kirk.
I'll be your host.
And looks like we have a few folks joining us up here on stage.
Wade, Neil, BFP, Pubby, Coleman
Good morning to you all
And I think we have Texas coming up as the co-host
We'll see about that if Eric can help us out
(01:40):
But yeah, thanks again to producer Eric for opening up the show
And let's take a look at the time chain today
It is Monday, September 8th, 2025
We are at Bitcoin block height number 913,746 with the Bitcoin price hovering just above $112,000,
(02:03):
which means you can still pick up 892 sats for each U.S. dollar.
One announcement before we get started.
Well, actually, we'll have two.
The first announcement is Bitcoin Veterans is having our second annual summit on November 10th and 11th in Nashville, Tennessee.
Would love to see you all there.
(02:24):
Tickets are live at bitcoinveterans.org forward slash summit 2025.
Also, if you'd like to get involved, looking for speakers, panel topics, volunteers.
So head there and plug your information in.
Would love to hear from you.
that summit is going to take place on November 10th and 11th.
(02:45):
Again, 10th will be the conference day and the 11th will be range day.
So that should be fun.
Get involved.
And then, yeah, other announcement.
Sometimes I miss this one.
But if you're in the audience, thank you for listening.
Would love to have you come up and speak with us.
If you'd like to, hit that microphone button in the bottom left.
(03:06):
If you have questions, comments, snide remarks, funny memes,
Throw them in the comments.
That's that purple pill in the bottom right of your screen.
If you click on that, you'll still be able to hear us.
Then you can type something in there or add an image if you don't know how spaces work.
All right.
That little PSA is out there now.
(03:30):
Wanted to go around the horn and say good morning before we hop into topics.
And if you bring up OpReturn, man, I might beat you up.
No, I'm just kidding.
Wade, go ahead.
How are you this morning?
I'm doing great, guys.
Just wanted to give a shout-out to the Ohio Bobcats, reigning MAAC champions,
taking down West Virginia Mountaineers in beautiful Athens, Ohio this weekend.
(03:53):
There you go.
All right.
Well, I opened it up with a little bit of pigskin comments, so I guess I deserve that.
Neil, how are you, sir?
I'm doing good, Bob.
I don't know.
It's just another day.
Good deal. BFP, we got any birds out there this morning?
(04:14):
Kind of. I don't know if you can hear them.
The cars are overwhelming the sound, so I can hear the birds, but I don't know if you guys can.
It's a beautiful day.
Yes, alert out there. Pubby, good morning. Welcome.
Bob, hey, you brought up the pigskin. Yes, I don't even care if it's Fiat as hell.
(04:36):
football was back so football feed is fine bitcoin for the rest thank you sir coleman
good morning hey good morning everybody hope everybody had a fantastic weekend
yeah and last but not least we have texas toast thanks for co-hosting again
good morning i'm just here to talk uh sports we got hockey coming up we got uh sec football
(05:03):
You know, we're here to have a good time.
Bitcoin, what's Bitcoin?
Who cares?
Exactly.
And that's why we're going to dive right into OpReturn this morning.
Just kidding.
But I do think there's several things that we can go over from the weekend.
And, you know, anything's open here.
But I wanted to start off with a little bit of news.
(05:27):
It looks like MicroStrategy or strategy was snubbed from the S&P 500.
I think that's a topic that Coleman might like to chat about,
but also gold still near all-time highs and has outperformed Bitcoin this year.
(05:48):
Coleman, any thoughts on this?
And will strategy be included in December?
Well, I would just like to say that a stop clock is right twice a day.
So I think that was my two calls.
I think MicroStrategy was going to underperform and gold was going to do quite well in the coming future.
(06:10):
So outside of risking making myself look like a fool, that's pretty much all I know.
I do think MicroStrategy will be included in the December.
I think everyone was just kind of overzealous with them getting into their first shot.
Again, they're very old school with the way that they decide this.
Again, a lot of this is over my head, but I just think Bitcoiners, we really talk about having a long-term time preference.
(06:35):
But I think that goes out the window.
Anytime someone mentions something that's bullish for Bitcoin in general, we just lose our shit.
And we just think that it's going to happen immediately.
So I think sometimes just taking a step back and looking at everything and kind of taking our time and make sure things are done right.
Michael Saylor hasn't done the right blood
(06:59):
ritual with the old men in Nantucket yet
so he's got that scheduled, they're going to go
do some laps around an owl in the woods and then
he'll be accepted into the club
Yep, I'm just
bringing it on myself this morning guys, everybody's in like a wild
(07:24):
mood and I love it. This is really good stuff. So thank you for that. Any other thoughts on
strategy, gold, performance of other assets since we're having such a good time here this morning so
far? All right, then we will move on to the next topic. Let's see. Oh, by the way, hey,
(07:47):
Since we have this up here, you guys might see a new face on the stage.
We have Eric up here, and Eric is running two handles.
But follow him.
He is our producer.
Did it all last week, doing a bang-up job.
And, yeah, thanks for being up here, Eric.
(08:10):
But, guys, do follow him.
Just wanted to give him a shout-out.
Thanks for all the work he's doing behind the scenes to help out with the show.
Good to get you up here on stage, too.
So, you know, one thing I wanted to cover today that could be fun, maybe not,
but you see a lot of turmoil going around the world.
And over the weekend, we got news that Japan's prime minister is resigning.
(08:38):
UK's deputy prime minister resigned.
France is broke.
And Canada's Prime Minister, Mark Carney, is giving out stimulus to all of the poor Canadians out there.
What do you guys make of this?
We hear about, you know, upcoming things in U.S. financial markets.
(09:00):
We've got CPI coming out this week, PPI coming out.
The Fed is expected to cut.
I don't want to get too heavy into macro, but are you guys, what kind of sense are you getting for what could come?
What do you guys think about all this stuff going on?
(09:22):
Yeah, I mean, if we could get Yomar up here to cover some of this stuff, he's been slacking on our geopolitics coverage.
But, you know, it seems like we're getting these teasers over and over again.
And I can't, this is every, it feels like every weekend now we get a teaser for Gaza,
ceasefire in Gaza.
(09:42):
That doesn't seem to end.
Ukraine, it's like now Macron thinks he's going to be the new Napoleon and, you know,
head off the Russians.
Yeah, I'm sure that'll go great.
The French are getting their butts whooped in Africa and getting displaced.
(10:02):
You know, it's not looking good for Europe.
It seems like a wave of populism is definitely upon Europe.
We'll see how the AFD and all these German elections and stuff that are coming up, how they go.
But it all seems to be trending one direction, which is kind of this re-migration push and, you know, Europeans trying to claw their country back.
(10:27):
But we'll see. We got this CBDC coming up for the euro.
It goes live in October, right? I think if I remember right.
So that's coming up. Pretty wild times.
But I don't know. What do you think, Bob? What do you think is going on? Where are we going?
(10:48):
Yeah, it's it's really interesting. You know, for as many people hate the tariffs and what Trump's doing.
I mean, he's just going to be able to stick his boot on the necks of a lot of these guys.
I think if you look into the Japan prime minister thing, it does have a lot to do with their economy.
They want to raise interest rates, which would send panic throughout all markets, I think.
(11:14):
People are used to that cheap money, and it's interesting.
Obviously, turmoil in the U.K.
yeah France sounds like it's going to have to get bailed out by the IMF
we've talked at length on this show about
all of the civil unrest and I would say
criminality that's going on over there
(11:37):
seems like they can't get their act together and I do think
Canada it's interesting like the pride that you see
out of Kearney maybe some we have some Canadians
in the audience that would like to come up and talk about it,
but it seems like he's not willing to bend the knee and would rather just print money
and give out more stimmies to people in Canada, which we know the long-term effects of that.
(12:03):
So I don't know.
I think, yeah, go ahead.
Yeah, with Canada specifically, I saw this crazy number that in the last 10 years,
36% or 38% of their population has been imported.
Um, that's insane. So I don't know if we're going to get some more trucker protests. It seems like
(12:27):
the Canadians only wake up in the winter and the summer they're like, you know, just sunbathing in
the mountains all summer and like being in the woods or something. But once the winter they get
bored, they start drinking and then they, uh, you know, start getting all feisty. So who knows if we
see something there, but something's got to be done. They they're either going to go full bore
(12:48):
this direction and in another five years it'll be 50 of their population is foreign born in 15 years
that's crazy that's your culture is gone you are not what you were at that point so we'll see if
they can uh you know spin up some some nativism but i don't have really any faith in them they're
too nice uh they don't have their like hockey animal spirits anymore so we'll see maybe the
(13:13):
hockey season i'll get them going yeah they're not even allowed to go out in the woods anymore
So I'm not I'm not even sure what's going on there.
Pubby, I saw you come off mute before hands went up.
So I'm going to go to you first and then Neil after that.
Yeah, you know, I was going to bring up that same stat.
I saw that Texas toast had there that 36 percent.
And what an insane number to immigrate a third of your population.
(13:37):
To put in perspective, that'd be, you know, bringing 100 million people into the U.S.
All right.
150, we'll say it's going up.
And it's unsustainable. And there's jokes about, look at the doctors and lawyers bringing in. But it all dovetails nicely into these unelected officials from the WEF and IMF and one to roll out the CBCs and more control is you're importing a population that just requires government assistance.
(14:06):
You know, barely they'll do some of the menial work and, you know, they're going to maybe drive Uber.
But here's the thing.
Once the population gets to that point, once by demographics, you know, they come in and they start to outpopulate others that are there.
Man, it is full on anyone's game.
(14:28):
Yeah, it is sad to see Western Europe.
It's sad to see what's going on in England and Ireland.
And, you know, there's a guy that called somebody a Muppet and got arrested because they were offended by words.
It's sad to watch this history that, you know, those that are older grew up watching.
And no one has that sense of place and home right now.
(14:49):
And it's unfortunate.
Yeah, thanks for that.
Totally agree.
Neil, what say you?
Yeah, I was going to kind of hit on that the same thing with like, you know,
you said all that stuff like what comes to my mind and it's just like all the craziness in the
world it's like we talk about stacking stats we talk about you know accumulating wealth and it's
(15:16):
like you know social capital that's the greatest that's the most sovereign wealth of all and it's
like you know what are you doing to stack kids you know what are you doing to have children to
actually contribute to
the propagation
of civilizations That really important too That the whole reason why we do this in the first place What the point of wealth It like that really important too And it you know that kind of the whole reason why we do this in the first place Like what the point of wealth You know it like if your answer is Lambos that fine But like you just have to accept that that is you know
(15:46):
the most, you're kind of stepping outside, you're isolating yourself from civilization,
society itself. Like, when you start having family, when you like, that's an investment into
you are stepping into, you know, a greater whole. And I mean, that's, that's where you find meaning.
Like, it's, it's kind of crazy. Like, and even just like a couple hundred years ago, like people
(16:09):
used to measure, like, you know, when you would meet someone new, and they say, like, how many
kids do you have? How many children do you have? And like, like, that was the sign of your, your,
that was your status, you know, how big of a family you had. And it's just kind of like,
we've kind of completely flipped that on its head and it's like, you know, the dual income,
(16:31):
you know, no kids. It's like when you elevate that, it changes, you know, it inverts the
priorities of a society. And it's just kind of like, you know, us as Bitcoiners, we're going to
have monetary potency. And it's like what we choose to do with it is that like that's going
to dig that's going to sail the ship direct the ship and uh that's a responsibility that's a duty
(16:55):
and if you're not thinking about that uh you know i i kind of i don't know i don't we're not the same
but well it's making people think like what what nationalism really is and kind of you know how to
think about that and it this country was built if you're an american if you're if you've had
generations here, this country, your ancestors built it for their posterity. And if you have
(17:21):
no posterity, then it's like, well, you have no real stake in the country. So, you know,
they kind of go alongside right with each other. So you'll see a lot of patriots and people that
love this country and don't want it to, you know, want it to be better for their children.
And that's kind of this national uprising, I think, that we're seeing with nationalism is people getting fed up.
(17:48):
But I don't know how Bitcoin, it's going to help.
It's like, are we seeing a rise in Bitcoin nationalism?
Or are we becoming a micronation inside of America?
Or is it going to populate and permeate through the entire system?
(18:08):
And I'm betting on the latter that everybody's going to get on board one way or the other through the financial markets or through all these other things.
But it's interesting to see the rise of nationalism kind of in this stage.
I agree. I do think it's a long game, though.
You know, it's especially like with football coming back.
(18:30):
I think you see people just getting out there on the fantasy apps and betting.
and they'd much rather do that than take the sure bet and buy Bitcoin.
This is what we're up against a little bit.
I don't know.
It's certainly interesting.
BFP, I see you're agreeing.
(18:52):
I'd rather you fight me, but did you have thoughts on this?
Yeah, I do.
I have a 19-year-old son who was betting on stuff like that.
And it's comical to me because he borrowed $100 from me recently.
He said he'd pay me back by the weekend.
I'm like, I don't loan money.
(19:12):
That's just not for me.
I'd rather put it into Bitcoin.
And then I loaned it to him anyway just, you know, because he's my son.
And I don't know what he needed it for.
But here he is gambling on these just ridiculous, you know, fantasy football things.
and he paid me back 50, but he still owes me 50 from, this was last weekend.
(19:39):
And he has a small amount of Bitcoin that I gave him as his early inheritance to teach him how this money stuff works.
But it's just the culture is so they indoctrinate these children all through the 15,000 hours of schooling.
(20:02):
And, you know, it's mostly you learn more from your friends and peers than you do the teachers.
And it's just the culture we live in.
And it's as much as I try and teach them about Bitcoin and how the financial stuff works.
It's like they're not interested until it pains them, you know.
(20:23):
So we'll see how that plays out.
You need to read your son the parable of, I forget what the parable is,
but where he gives them money and they come back with less.
And my good and faithful servant, I forget all the specifics.
The talents.
He needs to read that.
Yeah, it's called the parable of the talents.
Yeah, that's in the four.
(20:47):
Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, I think it's in there.
Yeah, I hear you.
Well, now I'm going to use it as if he ever wants to borrow money.
I'd be like, you still owe me 50 from, I don't know how long it's been.
(21:08):
Yeah, any other thoughts on this topic, guys?
I think if you really look at it, all these things do play together,
but we, I don't think you're going to stop.
Like it's a big marketing machine when you look at it.
That's all these professional sports organizations are.
(21:30):
They're giant marketing organizations and they do wield a lot of power
because all the fiat that's sloshing around.
And so I think that this is one of those places where just in my life,
I'll say, like, since becoming more in tune with Bitcoin, I care less and less all the time about sports ball, as I call it.
(21:55):
And what's funny about it, my grandfather was a minor in the league player for the St. Louis Cardinals.
And so big into sports, in love with Major League Baseball.
and he always looks at me funny now when I say, you know, hey, I haven't paid attention.
(22:19):
I don't care much about sports ball.
He kind of looks at me cross-eyed.
So I do think for some of us, you know, it's becoming less and less of a thing,
but it's still pervasive.
I mean, my kids are really into fantasy, not like the daily betting, far too young for that,
but they, you know, have their teams and want to talk about it and all that stuff.
(22:43):
And I'm like, guys, there's so much more to life than spending, you know,
an entire day or a weekend dealing with, again,
grown men running around a field and chasing after a ball.
Well, it's a social thing for them.
It's like it's, you know, it's something like the weather that you can talk about
(23:04):
and just have like a normal conversation that isn't political or too heavy.
It's like it's very light. So I get it.
But we're in more serious times, I think.
I think that honeymoon kind of like laissez faire,
everything's going to be hippy, dippy, hunky dory in America, I think is kind of over.
(23:27):
And it's like you get into this doomer mindset,
but you have to kind of steal yourself from some of this
and wake up. It's like you want to just shake people. Your wealth is being eroded. You're in a
bed of quicksand and you're not going to be able to survive or raise a family in the future if you
(23:48):
don't get on solid ground. And it's like, so enough with this betting and betting on frivolous
things. And yeah, I get it. It's nice to talk about. I prefer the weather personally for those
kinds of conversations. And then I dive straight into Bitcoin and how everything's going to shit.
And you need to protect yourself and your family. But that's just me. That's just me.
(24:12):
Yeah, we bring it. We bring it on ourselves, right? We're like, hey, the sky is falling.
And then people are like, okay, hey, I just wanted to check out and look at stats on a phone
and see if I'm ahead. BFP, I think I see your hand still, sir. Go ahead.
Yeah, my son, who I was just talking about, he pointed out the ridiculous amounts of money that the NFL throws at the tele screens and the fans and the stadiums and everything.
(24:41):
I just thought it was a very sign of the times.
And another thing, I saw the commercials are so much better.
You know, I actually kind of forced myself to pay attention to the normie stuff nowadays because I got so disinterested.
I just lost all touch with sports ball and all that stuff.
(25:03):
And I just had head down reading books.
But I saw a commercial with Patrick Mahomes on the insurance Allstate or one of those insurance things he does.
And it was hilarious because the Bitcoin meme bled into the commercials.
The girl's announcing him.
He's like, she's like, what's your name?
(25:24):
And he's like, Patrick.
And she goes, oh, let's give it up for Patrick.
He plays sports ball.
Like she had no idea who he was, Patrick Mahomes.
And it was just a good play on, you know, I don't know who this guy is.
He's just a sports ball guy.
Yeah, man, fortune favors the bold.
I saw Grayscale in some commercials during football.
(25:47):
I don't know.
They're starting to make a comeback.
So we're starting to see this kind of swell of crypto, Bitcoin, maybe treasury company advertisements coming down through the fall.
It'd be funny to see that Matt Damon back on the screen, you know, getting after it.
Oh, yeah.
(26:07):
Remember Tom Brady for FTX.
Wade, I see your hand.
I did want to get to this other topic, too, but do you have something on this one that we should hear about?
Yeah, I just wanted to bring up a bit in the news, the Disney and its vertical integration of its entertainment and its sports betting and whatnot.
(26:34):
And it's really a sign of the times because, I mean, we can historically go back and look at this country.
We've had sports for, you know, centuries here in the United States, but it hadn't necessarily degenerated into an area where you have vertical integration of media companies incorporating sports betting inside their like multi-linked platform, their cross, you know, cross-platform access that they have.
(26:59):
And so the thing that's a little bit worrisome is when you look at like the it's one thing for football and fantasy stuff to be a nice little side distraction or five dollar bet or something like that.
But we're looking at like, you know, Disney incorporating gambling and sports betting into this app with all of the with all like the cross pollination that they have and then slamming it in people's face.
(27:23):
It's going to be an addiction problem.
yeah sadly i think it already is uh tau uh thanks for coming up i see your hands there go ahead
sorry about that um yeah no this is a interesting topic i wanted to add
weigh in on my two stats here um so i play poker uh i go to the casino i love you know
(27:52):
playing on craps here and there.
And I've also sports bet it in the past,
basketball, football.
And so I want to kind of frame it a little bit differently.
I do think there is a place for it
in the sense where it's a form of entertainment.
(28:15):
Now, you have to be responsible for your money,
however you're going to manage your money so that you can take care of your life and build your life, etc.
But there are times where you want to be able to have that sort of entertainment,
(28:35):
that enjoyment of just putting a bet down.
And it is exciting.
And I don't know how many of you guys have betted on a football game,
maybe during a Super Bowl or something.
But it is exciting because every play that happens in your favor, you cheer for that team.
(28:59):
You're so excited.
Every basket that goes in, you're like, wow, this is so cool.
And that high that you get, it's an interesting feeling.
And I actually love that feeling.
And then when you have poker, you have some good hands, you can win, things like that.
but that's just a feeling, right?
(29:19):
That's just an form of entertainment, okay?
That's not all it is.
And so that entertainment, I think it's no different than you going to do something else,
like you go spend some tickets to the amusement park,
or you go and, you know, whatever you like, you go to a concert or whatever, right?
Some people, they like to gather with their buddies, watch a game, right?
(29:43):
And put some money on the game to get that additional sort of excitement.
And that's it.
It's just a form of entertainment.
It's not being irresponsible.
Although there are people who take it to the stream and think, oh, they can predict everything.
And then that's where people get in trouble, right?
And then that's being not responsible for your finances, etc.
(30:06):
Right?
I do think this whole sports betting thing, whatever it is,
there is a place, right, for everybody if they're interested in it,
but not something to, hey, I'm going to build my wealth doing this.
So, yeah, that's my two cents.
Thanks.
Thanks.
(30:27):
Yeah, I think it's good.
You know, I guess I don't want to paint the picture that this is all, like, horrible.
I think we've kind of touched on it.
You know, it is a social thing.
But I do fear that too many people, especially young people,
do bet too much, right?
And they're taking their entertainment a little too far.
(30:47):
So I think that's a good frame.
Tao did want to transition topics, though, kind of reset the room.
Guys, if you would like to come up, we'd love to have you hit that microphone
button in the bottom left.
Otherwise, throw your comments in that purple pill.
But the topic I wanted to cover is this well and mainly I wanted to hear from Wade on this but this news that came out that we had I think it was upwards of 475 illegal
(31:24):
and they were not of Hispanic descent.
It sounds like they were from South Korea.
But they overstayed their welcome at a Hyundai plant in Georgia.
And interesting to see that despite these folks providing economic activity, that the Trump administration didn't give any warning to Hyundai and say, hey, you need to fix these people who have overstayed their visas.
(31:53):
They just went in and rounded them all up.
And so Wade had sent me an article before the show that kind of indicated maybe one of the main reasons for that is wage suppression, right?
Hyundai was getting an unfair advantage by, you know, allowing these people to stay and not having to pay as much in wages maybe.
(32:17):
And so maybe I teed that up too much for you, Wade, but wanted to hear a little bit of your thoughts on this.
And I think it is interesting for the audience in relation to the other things we've been talking to about Bitcoin this morning and what's going on around the world as well.
Yeah, Bob, I kind of want to link this historically to some of the concerns I had regarding the historical Biden ships and infrastructure funding, because this plant in question received $3 billion in tax credits to produce these batteries for EV and hybrid vehicles.
(32:56):
And one of my largest concerns with the new administration coming in was that they should have put a pause and or seized or had a significant amount of these funds returned.
Historically, many of the departmental inspector generals had issued warnings stating that this was one of the most it was one of the largest and fastest distribution of funds from the Treasury for these types of stimulative projects.
(33:22):
And I think we're just going to continue to see billions, if not trillions of additional dollars of waste, fraud and abuse out there.
This looks like it was one of the largest, most successful immigration and wage suppression fraud investigations going on in the southeast.
(33:43):
There were hundreds of people that were detained for probable cause down there.
Obviously, ongoing investigation. We're not going to know the full details of it until we get there.
But I had some serious concerns about major subcontractors for these prime contractors that have received billions of dollars in tax credits and government handouts.
(34:05):
And effectively, what they're doing is, one, I'm not saying it's an issue that many of these projects have been moved to the south, which are right to work states.
Right. So you're kind of carving out you're getting some wage suppression there already by not using union labor.
But now you're getting to the point where you're using you're using a foreign illegal craft nonunion labor.
(34:28):
And even the local even the local construction firms aren't getting the opportunity to bid on some of these projects because it's all effectively antitrust labor wage suppression fraud.
So that that was my kind of 10,000 foot take on it. So happy to hear your guys thoughts.
yeah go ahead texas yeah i mean we see this all across the country um you know i have
(34:53):
family in a small town and uh in the heartland and you know the same kind of things are going
on in these factories all over the place um you just see it you know i saw it at the
at the dry cleaners. You see it in these places where it's like, you know, families are living in
(35:15):
these really cheap apartments that don't have washers and dryers. And that's where you see
them all coming in. And you're like, who are these people that are in this town? And they're all
foreign. And none of them were born there. And where are they working? They're working at the
factories. And, you know, you know that if it's if it's done legally or illegally, they aren't from
(35:39):
here. They're getting subsidized to work there. That's the big thing is the subsidies. So it's
exactly to your point. It's suppressing the American wage. And and I think hopefully they're
they're going to do some stuff to to go against that. But, yeah, I don't see that as a one off
problem. This is only the second major news headline I've seen. If you remember, maybe it
(36:04):
was three or four months ago, we had that Tyson plant that they did the same thing at. And so
this is just the ones that are making the headlines. But this has happened on a mass
scale across this country. So you would hope that as some of this stuff gets cleared out,
You know, you start to get the average American getting getting an increase in their wage and able to take care of their families the way it's supposed to be.
(36:32):
And just thinking for the in the attempt for the administration, this administration and the previous administration to reassure and step up our industrial priorities, critical defense, critical national defense priorities.
(36:54):
we're realizing that we have no labor to do it. We don't have the qualified craft labor.
We're not willing to pay the qualified craft labor wage to reshore the industrial and production capacity that we need to even be functional.
I mean, the craft labor jobs that we're talking about down there, it's no wonder that they got ratted out to the feds because you're talking about, you know, 50, 100, $150 craft union wage positions down there.
(37:24):
And the workers have been completely and even the American construction firms have been completely cut out of the process.
I mean, this is a direct handout from the United States Treasury in billion dollar tax credits to foreign firms that are going to engage in fraud.
(37:46):
Yeah. And you wonder why, you know, this is maybe it hasn't gotten as bad in the United States.
I mean, we were talking earlier about nationalism.
It's not just, you know, the turnover, importation of people, you know, other nationalities into countries.
It's also stuff like this.
It's the jobs.
(38:08):
Tao, I see your hand.
Go ahead.
Ooh, this is an interesting topic, very touchy topic, too.
um so i want to preface it with like um because we're talking about that the hyundai factory right
that the workers there that they're not necessarily legal um or the or their or their visa or something
(38:30):
expire so i do have um some uh i guess uh you know people that know work been working um doing
doing all our sort of gardening and landscaping for um many many years over 15 to 20 probably 20
(38:52):
years they're great people i love them etc i don't know their documentation situation whatever i don't
really care, things like that. But in regards to this whole topic in general, you know,
one of the questions we'll have to ask ourselves is, do people have the right to pursue happiness?
(39:12):
Right? Because I do think however these people are coming through or coming in,
that's all they're trying to do is they're trying to build a life for their family, you know,
and pursue, you know, just like everyone else is.
Every day you do something to build a life and pursue some sort of happiness.
(39:36):
Do people, like, on a basic level have that right?
Well, the only problem with that is, well, you are doing it illegally, right, against the law.
and that also affects the people who are currently, let's say, in the U.S.
(40:00):
Whether it's businesses, competing businesses, or jobs,
or jobs where there might not be as many to go around, etc.
And that's maybe a more deeper topic as far as the competition goes,
But it does have some impact, of course. It does have some impact. And we don't know how that dynamic will shift. Let's say no illegals came in, etc. Right. So but then we also have the law. Right. We wrote laws for a specific reason. And if you have laws written.
(40:41):
what's the purpose?
I mean, what's the point
if you're not going to enforce it, right?
It's like, I'm going to write it,
but forget about it.
Let's do whatever.
That doesn't make sense.
So, you know,
I'm going to come down,
like, if I had to kind of make
a sort of, like, opinion,
and I'll be completely honest,
(41:03):
because I'm not from the U.S. either, right?
So, I do think
people need to follow the law.
I mean, that's why we wrote it.
And if we feel that, hey, it's too strict
or whatever may be the case,
then it needs to be updated, right?
But if we have laws written,
(41:24):
the point is to, you know,
abide by those laws.
And people, you know,
will get their opportunities
as long as they follow the rules.
So that's just my opinion.
It's a very complex topic.
Yeah, I mean, it's not to say that people aren't like trying to, you know, there aren't good people, you know, everywhere.
(41:48):
There's a lot of good people.
There's some bad apples.
Like when nobody's making the argument that like all these people are evil and need to be killed or like that's crazy.
But, you know, you kind of get down to what you were talking about at the end there.
It's like why do we have laws?
What is a nation?
It gets to these fundamental levels where it's like, okay, why are we here?
What are we doing here? Is this just a free for all? And everybody, no, you create a nation and you have laws, you know, that is a creation of you and your people and your posterity and your ancestors.
(42:19):
And you want it for your children. So then we get back to that.
And it's like, OK, that's why we have laws to protect our citizens and allow them to freely, you know, pursue their their happiness.
That's where that's where I kind of come in on this. And it's like you're you're starting to scratch at it there at the end there.
And it's not to say that everybody's bad. We're all humans. Like it's especially if you're a Christian, you understand the human nature of everybody.
(42:45):
And we're all created equal in the eyes of God. But there's a proper way to do things.
And we have to kind of, you know, treat people with with some humility and humanity and respect.
But if you have if you want to, you know, have a nation, you have to be able to defend it as well.
as well. Yeah. And I do think it can be argued that some of these people may be victims themselves.
(43:12):
Now, I might get a lot of pushback on that, but I think, you know, if you look at the type of visas
that they overstayed, they were training visas. So essentially these people were, you know, brought
in to be trained and presumably to be sent back to factories in other countries to work for Hyundai.
And so back to Wade's point, I think while it's fine for people to be, you know, pursuing happiness and all that stuff, that's great.
(43:40):
I totally think that's fine.
It's really these corporations that are taking advantage and impacting workers and other companies by, you know,
taking handouts from the government that we're all paying for because it's printed money.
And, and again, I don't want to paint it as, hey, like all these major corporations, but like in these instances, I think maybe the broader point here is like, should we be incentivizing major corporations if they can't follow the rules?
(44:18):
And what are the implications?
So as much as we want jobs here from these corporations, a lot of them have hollowed us out labor-wise in other ways.
And then now that they've repatriated or come back and are saying, hey, we're going to create a bunch of jobs,
(44:39):
if they're not playing by the rules, are they really creating the jobs that they said they would with the stimulus that we're giving them?
So, again, I'm just kind of I'm not trying to place blame like solely anywhere.
But I do think like as much as we can have bleeding hearts for these people, because I do think some of them are probably victims.
(45:00):
I do think like the bigger story is all the corruption that goes on between the government and unnecessary printing and money creation and, you know, helping major corporations that are really just taking advantage of the American people and the American worker.
(45:20):
So anyway, that was a long thing.
I think we have a couple of hands.
I'll give Wade a chance and then BFP.
I'll close out on this, Bob.
I'll be a little harsher than you.
I will attribute some blame because Hyundai as a prime contractor has a
contractual, if not legal obligation to be in compliance with the e-check,
the e-check controls, the immigration controls for their employees.
(45:44):
And they, they have a responsibility to take control of their subcontractors,
which they clearly have not been in control of their subcontractors.
Yeah. Thanks for that. And I just want to be careful.
I'm not an attorney or don't know that much about immigration.
I just am kind of like a lot of other people who pay attention to the news.
(46:04):
BFP, go ahead, sir.
Yeah, I think it's a hot topic right now, especially.
But I have a brother-in-law that is full-blooded Filipino,
and he earned his way over here through years and years of just tumultuous,
you know, check in the boxes.
(46:25):
and his mom married a, my mother-in-law married a serviceman,
you know, my wife's dad was in the Navy, I think.
Everybody in the military is the Filipino mafia, dude.
Yeah so whatever happened it took him he had to live with his grandma without his mom for I don know at least a decade or more And finally now he has his citizenship and earned it the right way
(46:56):
You know, he works for Herschel and he's got a family, he's doing well. But that being said,
I don't agree with this flip-flopping like the Biden administration invites everyone in.
And now we have California filled, you know, with immigrants that are get, you know, hoodwinked.
(47:17):
I mean, they're giving them money, putting them on planes, just the absurdity.
And then the next administration comes in and flips.
It's red team, blue team, and it's got to stop because every four years flip-flopping like that,
it's not right to do that to people and families.
and it's just sad to see.
(47:38):
Then they, you know, they show up to try and get their stuff in line
and then they get arrested and thrown back at the place
where they're trying to be good citizens.
So it's just a hodgepodge and it's all messed up.
They need to, like, stand on business and be about, like,
(47:59):
get a good policy and stick with it, not this flip-flopping crap.
yep it is uh there's lots of problems out there uh maybe we can finish out the show here with some
good news uh sounds like uh a another solo miner found a block what do you guys think about that
(48:20):
as we try to transition away from uh this topic um why why are people still mining guys when uh
the fees are so low like what's the economic incentive i'm just curious like what are your
guys's thoughts on this we've had sustained very low fee rates on chain and uh yet the hash rate
(48:40):
last week hit all new all-time highs and pulled back a little bit now but still uh maybe we can
finish off with this topic what are you guys thoughts on this yeah that one guy got a cool
300 uh u.s guck bucks so that's pretty awesome um that's basically it energy monetization where
(49:02):
there was a where their energy could not be monetized efficiently before.
Now it is.
I think that combined with or now it's able to.
And that combined with like the the state kind of incentives of being a part of the
network and having their ability to pass blocks through, I think, is going to become more
(49:25):
more prevalent and, you know, kind of define the economics of mining for the next decade,
especially as the block reward subsidy diminishes.
I think all this stuff about, you know, JPEGs and data, I think it's a lot of its noise.
You know, it's missing the forest for the trees.
(49:48):
And I think a lot of different stuff's going on with mining.
So I wish it was me that mined that block.
Unfortunately, it wasn't.
As soon as I heard that, probably like a lot of you, I went to my and saw my little solo mining wallet to see if it populated with three Bitcoin.
And it did not.
(50:09):
So I was sad.
But maybe I'll get them next time.
It's the little engine that could.
That's what I like about it.
It's the little guy story.
3.125.
Texas, Texas toast.
3.12125 Bitcoin
I feel like I won the day
I got you to come up here
What are your thoughts?
(50:30):
Happy Monday
In the year 2025
It is still
More profitable
Even with 3.125
Subsidy
Than it was at 6.25
Subsidy in the last epoch
The number go up
A very important ingredient in this equation.
(50:52):
Also, you know, it still remains if you have really affordable energy to supply as the inputs to this activity, you can basically generate Bitcoin at a discount to what the exchange market is doing.
And this is the primary incentive for mining.
(51:13):
You ask the question, why are people mining?
I give you the number one answer.
to get Bitcoin at a discount.
You know, I actually am quite happy mining,
pointing my hash rate to Ocean,
where I get paid out direct in the Coinbase transaction from the protocol.
So I get these so-called virgin sats straight from the protocol, no KYC.
(51:37):
And there's some more great reasons to mine.
I think it's actually a thing where over time,
that's a more and more important factor.
You know, just going and creating a Coinbase account
or a Gemini account or a Kraken account,
like just, you know, KYC-ing and buying on the exchange
(51:59):
is looking like a very much less attractive option too
if you can actually get some Bitcoin in cold storage from the source.
So, yeah, there's a ton of reasons why this hash rate continues
and will continue to keep piling up.
It's pretty tremendous.
(52:21):
We are actually just creeping up on the one Zeta hash
on these longer average readings of hash rate,
which is really incredible.
You know, we had just a couple days ago
a massive difficulty increase of almost 5%,
and that was at already all-time high difficulty.
(52:43):
So we're at screamingly high difficulty right now.
And meanwhile, in the last 24 hours, 158 blocks when we only expect 144.
So, you know, this network is a monster.
And I would say that hash rate chart and the trend of just where, you know, that activity subsector of the Bitcoin landscape is going is probably the most bullish thing ever.
(53:12):
switch out your price chart for a hash rate chart it's it's pretty damn bullish cheers
yeah i love that take and maybe there's some other people that want to chime in but i think
it's really good perspective for folks and especially for people who haven't been maybe
paying attention or don't know how bitcoin works i think we get a variety of people in the space
(53:34):
and uh love all you guys for being here each day uh listening to us at 10 a.m eastern um
We'll do it again tomorrow.
But I do think that it's really interesting when you zoom out on the mining space.
And, you know, a lot of people have their tail between their legs because they say, hey, you know, this is all corporatized.
(53:57):
It's all run by a bunch of very large-scale miners.
It's further consolidated by, you know, mining pools that everyone's a part of.
And, you know, it's a little scary.
And so people choose not to pay attention or to mine or understand how these things work.
But I think some of what you said, TC, actually all of what you said was well put.
(54:21):
And people should really pay attention to this part of Bitcoin.
I wonder why, like considering everything you laid out there for us, TC, why we're still having this op return debate,
why people aren't talking more about the mining space and how we're hitting new all-time highs
(54:42):
and all the bullish stuff that you just brought up.
And I don't want to go down that path, but I just feel like people are bored
and a certain segment of Bitcoin Twitter has stoked a lot of emotions in people,
unnecessarily maybe in some cases.
(55:02):
And I don't know.
I think these are the things that we should be talking about on spaces, maybe even more so than what we spent the first 50 minutes talking about.
So I really do appreciate you coming up here and sharing.
Yeah, go ahead.
I saw – I'm trying to remember who it was.
I don't remember.
(55:23):
But on my feed this morning, somebody was saying, if you're new to Bitcoin, this infighting is normal.
It's their market.
This is literally – it's crab market, honestly.
Like I think crab market infighting is nastier than bear market infighting because bear market infighting, a lot of the tourists go home and it's really just the diehards remaining.
(55:47):
But in this crab market where we have these spurts of bull market activity and a bunch of new people crowd in and then suddenly, oh, heaven forbid, we go sideways for a month.
You know, everybody loses their damn mind. But, you know, I mean, honestly, let's not overlook the fact that, you know, you're talking about a bunch of people who care very dearly about this thing in Bitcoin.
(56:11):
So if they perceive some kind of threat, especially if they perceive an internal threat from people who, you know, should be, you know, looking out for Bitcoin, I don't think it's unreasonable for people to really get, you know, passionately drawn into that conflict.
And I think it's to be expected.
(56:36):
And don't disregard it because in every pleb's heart is their own understanding and context for Bitcoin.
And people really do put their whole lives and invest a lot of themselves in it.
So expect impassioned, bloody, drawn-out fistfights.
(56:58):
and that's, I think, to be expected.
It's just part of the deal.
This too shall pass.
Rico, how are you doing this morning?
Yeah, good afternoon.
Good morning.
I'm doing great.
I appreciate TC's sobering voice.
(57:20):
I agree.
Like, Hashrate's doing fine.
The network's doing fine.
I think that we haven't realized that Bitcoin has been co-opted by Wall Street
and there's a lot of volatility, I would say.
And that's what we're feeling.
I mean, Bitcoin has always been kind of infighting
between the plebs for the greater good.
But I think now it's just become speculative
(57:41):
and everybody's just trying to figure out
who has the alpha and who's making the right decisions.
And if you think about it,
Bitcoin's just, it's for you, it's individual.
So it's not, there's no general,
like encapsulating way to be in Bitcoin.
You just do you.
but right now everybody's signaling that you should be doing this and we are in this crab
bull market with this sideways chop that feels like it's forever and i have been there cycles
(58:08):
before and this always happens but with the capacity the amount of people coming into this
space it just feels so intense that um people just really need to take a break for their own cycle
their mental state.
So, yeah, I just wanted to
reiterate that. Don't take it
so serious, guys.
(58:29):
That's not...
Take it serious when it comes to
how you were in Bitcoin, but don't
take everybody else so serious because
that's what it is. Everybody's taking
way too much input on everybody
else's outputs
and just grain of salt, guys.
No. Satoshi is
like your two sats. It doesn't have
(58:49):
to be your entire life on a conversation that you're so right like we're so early and most of
us are completely wrong um and we're just trying to figure out you know who to kind of in a sense
uh connect with in the space and you know like i said it's just everybody's just so focused on
(59:10):
everybody else's opinions that they're not even just taking care of their lonely selves so
anyways good conversation
and yeah hash rates up guys like
price does follow hash we have
like the highest stock to
flow ratio in any commodity
any valuation
of anything ever created if you don't know
what the stock to flow is it's
(59:32):
basically how much it would
take how much energy would take to
recreate an
asset or commodity
and bitcoin has the highest
stock to flow it's at 120 where gold
is at 60.
So we're way ahead of the curve.
Yeah, it's a really good perspective.
(59:52):
And I want to start wrapping it up here.
We're just past the hour.
Do try to keep these to an hour if possible,
just to respect people's time.
But do enjoy everybody come up here and sharing their thoughts
and everyone who listens.
Anybody on the stage want to give some final thoughts
before we wrap it up for this Monday?
(01:00:14):
Good to go. Happy Monday. Have a good week. See you tomorrow.
Your fantasy football team has one last chance tonight, I guess.
I'll wrap it up with that since we've been joking about the NFL coming back into into season.
(01:00:36):
But guys want to give another reminder and shout out to the Bitcoin Veterans second annual summit, November 10th and 11th.
Visit BitcoinVeterans.org forward slash summit 2025.
Tickets are live.
So we'd love to see you there.
And that's a wrap.
Again, want to thank the speakers.
(01:00:57):
Want to thank everybody who listens in each day.
Hopefully we make this fun and interesting.
We haven't really spent as much time talking about news lately, so it was kind of fun.
We've been more topical, which has also been fun.
Hopefully you guys are enjoying it.
If you guys have any input for the show, if you want to tell me I suck, just DM me.
I do like hearing from you, especially the music that Eric has to play every day.
(01:01:21):
Try to give him some input, some direction.
It was kind of fun to hear a country song, 21 Summer, even though it doesn't really feel like it
because people are all pissed off at each other about Op Return.
So anyway, we try to have fun on the show.
We try to laugh at ourselves and each other.
But we'll do this all again tomorrow, 10 a.m. Eastern.
(01:01:43):
Please do join us.
And that's all I have for today.
I want to wish you a great Monday.
And as always, do not shit going.
It's like pumping kerosene into an unleaded tank.
All people that use fiat currency as a store of value, we call them a core.
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