August 15, 2025 • 65 mins
Join Bob and Texas Toast as they discuss is Bitcoin "A Cult"
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Thank you.
(00:30):
All right, good morning, everybody.
Hopefully I can get this stuff working here this morning.
Been a crazy day already, and hopefully you're enjoying it.
Let's see.
(00:50):
We got a bunch of people filing in, hopefully, and we're going to talk about cult-like behavior,
echo chambers maybe a little bit of bitcoin price but hopefully not too much and uh yeah it should
be fun we'll let people file in please we re-post the space so we can reach out to as many people
as possible we're gonna have a fun thursday here and hang out but want to welcome everyone and say
(01:15):
good morning good morning we are back at it again today thank you for joining bitcoin veteran spaces
number 243, where we talk about Bitcoin. My name is Bob Van Kirk. I'll be your host this morning.
And I am also joined by your other co-host, Texas Toast. Good morning, sir. And good morning to those
(01:38):
of you on stage. Welcome in everyone who faithfully listens every day. Let's take a look at the stats
for today is thursday august 14 2025 and we are at bitcoin block height 910 021 with the last block
(01:58):
found just about 35 minutes ago so this one's a little over time but that's okay looks like the
bitcoin price hasn't moved much since our show yesterday hovering just above 118 000 which means
you can still pick up 846 sats for each us dollar and if you guys got caught up in the price pump
(02:22):
uh since our last show and you uh fomoed in uh welcome to bitcoin and uh this is par for the
course good stuff hopefully nobody uh is is wrecked but uh i do think it's funny and it was
fun to play some good old time music wipeout. That was,
(02:45):
that was fun to kick off the show. So let's see one announcement and then we'll
get going here. And if you guys want to have a sip of that grape juice while
we're, while I'm making this announcement,
we'll get into the cult talk here in a second,
but Bitcoin veterans is having their second annual summit on November 10th and
(03:06):
11th in Nashville.
Day one is going to be conference day, and day two will be range day, where you will get the chance to shoot some targets with some firearms.
Looking for people to get involved, so please do visit bitcoinveterans.org forward slash summit 2025.
Looking for speakers, panel topics, volunteers, and attendees if you don't want to get up on stage, make yourself known.
(03:33):
All right, that's my announcement for this morning.
And wanted to say good morning.
Go around the horn.
Thanks for joining us again.
Texas Toast, do you have your coffee this morning?
How are you?
Connection good.
Stable.
Feeling good.
I really hope they involve Tannerite in some way at the shooting event.
(03:57):
That would be cool.
Yeah, we can dive into some of that maybe.
Neil, how are you doing, sir?
Real good, real good.
Another day.
Yes.
And BFP, how are you this morning?
I'm well, Bob.
(04:18):
Thanks for having me.
Another great day.
And we'll round it out with Pubby.
How are you, sir?
Oh, man, too good.
Hey, I like when you have the surf music going.
At first, I thought that was Sam the Shaman of Pharaohs with Lully Polly.
But no, that was a safaris with wiped out.
Good call on the music.
(04:38):
Yeah.
So I just, I timed it pretty well.
I sold at 121 yesterday, bought back in at 120.
So you can say I'm up a bit today.
Thank you.
Trader Pubby, stack and sets in an interesting way.
But yes, good morning.
And yeah, some people saw an opportunity.
(04:59):
Some people maybe got wiped out.
But yes, I'll take that into consideration for tomorrow's music as we wait for people to file in.
I always try to throw something a little different in there.
And if you're listening on the recording, you're probably hearing the normal intro music.
But when we do the live spaces, I try to keep it interesting and throw something different on the live show every day because I get bored.
(05:28):
And so I do it for myself and maybe you too.
But let's see. Let's look at the topic this morning.
You know, we've been kind of skirting around the news, not really covering it.
We can definitely jump into some of those topics today.
But I think it's a little more fun to talk about some of these topics around Bitcoin and maybe poke fun at ourselves from time to time.
(05:55):
So this morning.
I'm a cult expert.
at this point.
What kind of cult is this, Texas?
Well, you know, we all got so many different types of cults in our lives.
I went to a school.
You know, you can get involved in cultish behavior when you're, you know,
really wanting your football team to win, especially here in Texas.
(06:19):
That can become extreme, let's say.
So I can understand the cultish behavior there.
There's a few universities out there that display cultish behavior.
It's okay.
Cult stuff is cool.
It's radical.
(06:39):
We talked about on Tomer's stuff.
It's kind of extreme.
So I appreciate it to an extent.
It's when it gets overdone or irrational, that's when it can get scary.
but overall I think it, you know,
a lot of the slander behind cults and stuff is like,
(07:02):
is just the radical nature of it. So
kind of take it as a compliment.
Yeah. As long as the cult's not dangerous. Right.
And so my cult would never be dangerous.
BFP. I see your hand. Go ahead, sir.
I think cult, like Texas toast said, cult gets a bad rap,
(07:23):
But culture, which is kind of the same word, just with a little extension, the Bitcoin culture is one of the best cultures I've ever been a part of because people are truth seekers and real people.
And you learn from these people and you don't get I mean, there are bad people in every culture, so it's not like it's perfect.
(07:47):
But like you said, every cult can get dangerous and every culture can get dangerous, too, if they start sniffing their own farts and believe in nonsensical things and not – go ahead.
No, yeah, I was just going to – I absolutely agree.
(08:09):
The ability for this culture in particular to kind of police itself and call each other out and debate the ideas I think is very valuable.
Exactly.
You're going to call me out.
I'm going to call you out.
(08:29):
Bob's going to call Pubby out if you say something nonsensical and that doesn't resonate.
We're all in the same boat, but we're not afraid of uncomfortable confrontations or discourse.
(08:49):
Discourse is how you get.
Discourse is good.
Bitcoiners love it.
I totally agree.
And I think that, you know, sometimes we do get in here and we have these echo chambers, maybe not this space, but maybe sometimes this space at admittedly.
(09:10):
And I think it is good to have differing opinions.
I think one of the rubs in Bitcoin spaces comes with this idea of Bitcoin maximalism, where people are just, you know, single minded, single focused, nothing else matters.
and they truly do see things only through orange colored glasses, which I can appreciate.
(09:34):
But there is more to life than Bitcoin.
And I really enjoy it.
I love talking about it, as you know, being up here.
But there's so many great things in life.
And I think sometimes we need to just step away and understand what else is out there.
continue learning and not just with these orange colored glasses.
(09:58):
So that doesn't mean I'm a shit coiner.
It just means I'm open minded.
And it means that I you can't only look at the world through one lens.
Now, if you guys want to disagree, by all means.
But I'm going to stop this monologue and go to Pubby.
Oh, I was just going to add another sort of difference is that most colts,
(10:20):
they keep the family away from you.
They intercept their letters, them coming for you.
But the Bitcoin cult, you usually remove yourself from the normies if you've worn out your welcome arms pilling.
So that's one major difference is you will only take yourself out of society.
You don't have to be forced.
It's kind of like the military.
You're making me think I'm in the Navy again.
(10:40):
I don't know.
Old boot camp.
The old boot camp letter search is always a good one.
We're going to take you out in the middle of the sea, separate you from your family.
We are going to make you question everything about life, and then we're going to pump you full of information that is useful at the time, maybe useful later, but we don't know.
(11:00):
We're just trying to scare you.
The only fresh air you're going to get is the smoke deck.
Exactly.
If you're lucky, we'll give you some sea air.
No, but all good.
I think this is a fun topic, guys, because we do have to poke fun at ourselves.
I do think we can look at it both ways and say that sometimes there is cult-like behavior, but I really like what BFP said about this idea of culture, not just cult, but culture.
(11:30):
And so, you know, I think the reason that sometimes Bitcoiners can be accused and be labeled as having cult-like mentality is because you start seeing this, what I would say sometimes be a radical and passionate focus on one single aspect of life, which is this digital scarcity that we talk about so much.
(11:59):
And so not to defend it, but I think we can kick around this topic from quite a few different angles and would love to hear from Neil this morning.
Good morning, sir, and go ahead.
Yeah, I'm just going to riff a little bit in that same vein of the culture because it's like when you go back to the etymology of the word, I mean, it has like farming roots, like the Latin root, you know, to cultivate, to till, to nourish a plant.
(12:29):
to produce a harvest, you know, to produce an end.
And it's like that's taken root in our human relations societally,
how we organize, how we adopt values and virtues to achieve, you know,
a particular end, a particular harvest, which is, you know,
when we throw around the term cult as like a derogatory thing,
(12:52):
like you're in a cult, you're in a that.
It's like, I mean, that's kind of a bastardization of the actual meanings
of the word because like to be human is to be cultured to be in a cult like that's kind of just
a universe it's like a non it means every it applies to all so it doesn't really uh i don't
know it's not really helpful uh word in that sense um and so it's just like why does bitcoin
(13:18):
or why do bitcoiners get kind of oh you're in a cult-like behavior it's like well we've galvanized
around a particular end.
You know, we've our values and our virtues,
which we enact in our everyday lives,
trying to achieve this end, get to that end.
(13:39):
It's just, it's different than the normal counter.
Like it is a kind of counter-cultural thing
in the sense that it just, it's going against the grain.
Like we're not about just extracting from each other.
Like we want these positive sum games
that we all win at and we create abundance.
(14:00):
Like that's kind of in my head,
just the most simplistic way of putting it.
Like, well, what is the harvest we're trying to get?
You know, we're trying to not have, you know,
extractive, coercive slavery with debasement.
We like to have our social bonds, you know, not be changed.
(14:21):
We would like them to be cooperative, you know, loving relationships where people come together voluntarily.
People come together and enact their free will, fully, you know, fully actualize their rational capacity as a moral agent and just be this complete dignified human being.
(14:42):
Like that's that's very much so different than the culture we're steeped in.
So it sticks out. And that's why we get labeled as such.
But to one slight other point, the Bitcoin maximalism thing, like to me, all that means to me is just it's a recognition that Bitcoin is the maximally potent monetary object.
(15:08):
Like it's nothing like I don't care what it does to me.
That doesn't mean what you're doing or anything like that.
It's just like if you recognize Bitcoin for what it is as that maximally potent object, you will act accordingly to that.
Like if that starts to guide your behavior, I mean, that's going to send you in that direction.
But that's all I got for riffing.
(15:29):
Man, go ahead, BFP.
But yeah, I love what you're saying, Neil.
That was magnificent.
I'm going to go back and listen to that again.
yeah now he uh he um made me think of just the word play that that whole cultivate uh the way
he said that so it made me think of acculturation everyone acculturates their children we acculturate
(15:54):
them so they don't drop their pants and pee at the playground you know us as bitcoiners
we're acculturating normies to understand what they're using in everyday life.
You know, money is just a tool and you're using an inferior form of money that is from actually the 1930s.
(16:19):
And it acculturation So that just what I had another point but I forgot it Can we use bigger and bigger words
Because I need some help.
I need a dictionary.
I read too much, so I get all these goofy words in my brain.
(16:44):
That might be something we have to clip.
Eating France.
I miss that when we were having Coleman on here more regularly, but welcome to the stage, sir. How are you?
Hey, good morning, everybody. Sorry, joined a little late, but enjoying the conversation. So I'm just going to kind of sit back and kind of my entry.
(17:06):
Awesome.
One of the things I wanted to bring up this morning, and maybe we can riff on a little bit as well,
is I think one of the reasons that people start labeling Bitcoiners as a cult
is because of charismatic figures and thought leaders who like to share their wisdom with us,
like Michael Saylor, Jack Maulers, I could name a lot of others.
(17:30):
But I wonder what people think about these charismatic leaders.
Do you guys think that that is a fair assessment because of what people from the outside see?
Or is it really not applicable because Bitcoin is decentralized and has no central leader?
(17:53):
What say you guys?
I had the Bitcoin maxi comment is what I was going to say.
And I think it was Jack Mahler's that explained this to me.
It was a derogatory term.
And basically Bitcoiners always take derogatory terms about them and they use them.
(18:13):
They use them in a way that makes everyone understand something about Bitcoin.
So Bitcoin Maxis
And I don't know if you guys saw Besson come out
And say what he said
More people are paying attention to guys like Besson and Jerome Powell
(18:33):
Than Saylor and Jack Mahler
We pay attention to the people that have signal
Yeah, what do other people think about some of these charismatic leaders?
Again, if you're just joining us, guys
please do repost the space.
Love to get more people in here,
but we're just kind of laughing at ourselves a little bit here this
(18:55):
morning.
And also looking at some of the cult-like behavior and maybe not
explaining it away,
but some of us are trying to justify it.
But I think it's fun.
And it's also hopefully educational from some of you as you talk to
people.
But Jimmy,
I see your hand.
Go ahead,
sir.
Thanks for coming up.
(19:17):
Yeah.
Good morning.
And it just reminds me of something that I used to always tell people that to me,
Bitcoin seemed to be like a tribe with no chief, a religion with no God, and a cult with no leader.
And then I was at an event, I think it was in 2020, in Ensenada, Mexico, with a bunch of OGs.
And Giacomo Zucco was the only one that, we all were speakers, but he was the only one that had given his own platform.
(19:38):
We were all on panels.
And Giacomo gave this great speech.
I wish we had a recording of it.
But at the end of it, the punchline was, cult harder.
That's what I love about Maxis.
These old Gs that have been in the space so long, they embrace it.
They're like, yeah, it's a cult.
Damn right it is.
But what's funny was the guy that was attacking everybody, calling it a cult, was Udi.
(20:00):
And if anybody's more of a cult leader, it's Udi.
He's got people following him, like taproot wizards, all this dressing up and all this stuff.
Dick winners don't have a leader.
The reality is it's a cult-like thing.
Who are you following?
You're following yourself.
At least I am.
I think most of you are.
So, yeah, it's a rather interesting dynamic that we all come together,
and yet we really don't have anybody that we're following.
(20:21):
As far as I see it, it's a mix of people.
But, yeah, I thought it was pretty good the way Giacomo Colt Harder
had become a phrase between a bunch of us.
So, yeah, Colt Harder.
Or slay your heroes.
Neil, I see your hands up again.
Go ahead, sir.
Yeah, on the leadership thing, so from, like, a philosophical,
(20:43):
like leadership is just kind of the the directing of collective action right like so that necessarily
makes like morality the determining of the end uh like the technical foundation of leadership
and so from that kind of from that understanding when we when we the way we say bitcoin doesn't
(21:09):
have leaders, it's kind of a, it's like a kind of mangled meaning of that word. Because just
coming into this space and someone talking about the truth or something like explaining, describing
reality and saying, hey, if you want to go here, take this path, like that's a form of leadership.
(21:30):
And I mean, like we're saying there's no one forcing you to do that. You know, like that's
when they're like, Bitcoin doesn't have a leader.
It's like, yes, it doesn't have a president.
It doesn't have a quote-unquote authority figure
that dictates and forces, you know, coercive action.
That's correct.
But Bitcoin is full of leaders.
(21:51):
Like, you know, we're all leaders.
We're up here talking.
We're speaking.
We're describing reality.
And we're trying to, like, arm people with that.
Not like if they don't...
We're trying to provide clarity for people
so that they can direct their, you know, action.
And we come together collectively to achieve these goals.
Like we're all part of the network.
(22:12):
We're all running nodes.
We're all like, so like that's collective action.
And, you know, we don't have the authoritarian coercive figure that we don't have an enforcer
that forces that.
But I mean, we do have leaders and I don't know.
It just like I I just think that when we're talking about when we when we juxtapose or compare that to like the quote unquote cult leader.
(22:38):
Well, they're selling something that's not true.
They're selling something that's not real.
And they're relying on your trust in them.
So like everything that I said in my book, I'm saying, don't trust me.
Like I'm describing to you how I I'm seeing reality and you can validate that yourself.
(23:03):
You are a rational creature. You are your own node, like validate it yourself.
But like, you know, don't trust me. So it's like the quote unquote cult leader relies completely on the trust, your blind trust in them.
Like everything that sailor says that's right. It's right because it's true, not because he said it.
And like I listen to him and I validate the things he says myself and I pick up what I agree with, what I validate.
(23:32):
And if I think he's off on something, I just discard it.
Like, that's fine.
You know, like so, I mean, I don't know.
The leadership thing is kind of it's it really is cooperative, too.
Like we learn from each other.
And I think that's good.
Yeah.
No, I like that.
And I think it's one of those things where, you know, some people just don't want to think and they don't want to challenge.
(23:55):
And so I do think it's good, you know, like BFP said, slay your heroes, right?
It's kind of like you have to filter and you have to digest and contemplate what's being said and not take things at face value.
And I think that's maybe one of the valuable lessons about getting involved in Bitcoin.
We should be leery.
(24:15):
And you hear the terms like don't trust verify.
And I do think that's important.
It's a skill in life, not just for people who are interested in Bitcoin, but maybe Bitcoin helps some people see that they need to do that.
So let's see.
I think I see a couple of hands.
(24:35):
We can really take this anywhere, guys.
So feel free to jump in.
But I did.
Let's see.
I think Pubby still has his hand up.
Oh, yeah. Just, you know, something Neil said really resonated with me. You know, it's not true because someone says it, like a sailor. You know, it's true because it's just true. And when you've been here long enough, look, you've got a loose affiliation of, I don't even know if you want to call them thought leaders, but a topic will come up and people wait on Twitter.
(25:04):
well, yeah, what's Adam Back have to say about this?
Or what does so-and-so have to say about this?
At the end, everyone's sort of an individual, obviously.
But yeah, you see the, I don't know if you want to call them thought leaders or whatever,
but it's the same group that rotates through the podcast circuit,
you know, through the years you've been here and Booth and Foss
and everyone else goes through there.
(25:25):
But they give you food for thought.
And now when it comes to, yeah, you know,
Bitcoin isn't true because we say it's true.
It was true because, fuck, man, you got 16 years now, 16 years of looking at this thing.
And, you know, when I when I was starting to orange pill, watching it drop and all this, but believing in it and and moving forward.
(25:46):
Now people come back to you and say, is you still in that cold thing or how do I get?
Look, man, I don't know what else to tell you.
Bitcoin, there is so much education material out there for you to see.
OK, it's true because it's true.
I don't know how many years you need to believe it.
That's up to you.
But we're at 16 years now.
(26:07):
If you want to wait until 20, 25, whatever is good for you, that's fine.
But that's the most beautiful part about this.
It's not an individual that is leading Bitcoin.
Bitcoin just leads to charge.
That's it.
Yeah, I like that.
I do think that, you know, again, there's a lot of ways we can look at this.
One of the things that I'll say just pisses me off the most when I'm in spaces is, or even on just X comments, all those things, is that a lot of times critics are dismissed as simply just not understanding Bitcoin or, you know, oh, you're just part of the fiat system.
(26:44):
And I think that that is what leads to people calling it a cult or an echo chamber.
And sometimes I think, you know, if you're honest with yourself, you even feel that.
But I wanted to say good morning and welcome to TXMC.
I think he has some thoughts on this with his hands up.
Go ahead.
Yeah, Bob.
Thanks, man.
(27:04):
Enjoying listening to you guys.
I do have some opinions on this.
As someone who often feels like he's like on the periphery of some undefined group that is in Bitcoin here.
like I agree with some of what Neil said in the sense like yeah there are there are no leaders
we're just kind of a bunch of individuals but there are thought leaders for lack of a better term
(27:29):
that get elevated because this is a difficult to understand thing for people who've never
learned about money or or have limited understanding of finance or in history like
you have to kind of do your research, as we all know. And the willingness of people to do that
varies wildly. So we can't, it's nice to assume that all Bitcoiners are like, don't trust,
(27:54):
verify, very discriminating and scrutinizing about things they hear, and they always do their own
research. A lot of people, honestly, want to outsource their thinking on complex topics to
people that they feel have a better handle on it than them. And what ends up happening is you get
this, it's, I don't mean this to be completely derogatory, but maybe a little bit, but you end
(28:15):
up with this varsity team of influencers who kind of drive a lot of the narratives. They come up with
catchphrases. And then you end up with kind of like this tribal behavior where a bunch of people
adopt those things as their own. They adopt those ideas. They adopt those turns of phrase.
And then in every conversation, every space, a lot of the podcasts you hear, people just kind of,
(28:36):
They use this colloquial language to signal that they're part of the group and that they understand.
And I don't think it's a cult.
Sometimes we use the word cult as an insult, and some people may actually mean it.
I don't really think it's a cult, but I do think there is a tendency for intellectual laziness because this is a hard-to-understand thing.
(29:01):
And I think that leads to a lot of groupthink and a lot of lack of challenging, diverse ideas within the group.
It's really easy to hear Peter Schiff, or I'm just pulling someone out of the hat, a Peter Schiff type, someone who's constantly negative, Charlie Munger.
It's really easy to pick apart their critiques.
(29:22):
This guy doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
But there's a lot of times within Bitcoin, I'm speaking from personal experience, where I can be like, listen, I don't think what these influencer people are saying even makes sense.
They're trying, you know, a lot of these people are, this is not an insult to Neil because I haven't read his book and I'm sure it's wonderful, but there are other people who have written books.
(29:46):
They have podcasts.
They have content to sell.
They have businesses.
and their opinions are heavily shaped by their own ability to sell you those things and sell
those things to an audience and appear as an expert. And I just get frustrated because
I take my own path. I don't like to read Bitcoin or curated versions of history. I like to read my
(30:10):
own history books and kind of come up with my own opinions about things. A lot of times I will
express those things. And they are resoundingly shut down by people telling me, I don't understand
anything about Bitcoin when I literally spend thousands of hours trying to understand this stuff.
And so I think what I just kind of put a bow on my opinion here, I don't, I agree that it's not a
(30:34):
cult. And there are, for the most part, good people just trying to understand this thing,
be on the right side of a bet and put themselves in a position to benefit financially over the long term by having the right idea about this thing.
But along the way, there is a lot of cultish attitude in the sense that people get lazy in their thinking,
(30:57):
and they just want someone else like a sailor type or a Jeff Booth type or someone to tell them what the future is going to look like,
and that they decide, oh, I like that.
I'm going to adopt that as my own.
And then their learning kind of stops there. And I experienced this a lot. People just kind of stop learning at that point and being critical in their thinking. And they just assume, well, this guy has a handle on it. He clearly must be right. This is the direction it's going. I see it now. It's so obvious. And anyone who doesn't agree just doesn't understand Bitcoin.
(31:27):
And I would just encourage people to get away from that thinking and don't assume that just because someone is in the bet with you that they have the same mindset as you and the same incentives that you do.
At the end of the day, this is just a monetary asset.
It's not something, in my opinion, people should build a personality around.
(31:47):
It's just some money.
Life is much bigger than this.
You know, you really take some chances when you name a Bitcoin veterans morning space.
What kind of cult is this?
And actually, I was having a conversation with a good friend last night who we used to joke around when we'd hang out.
We'd say, what kind of cult are you in?
(32:07):
And so that's where the name came from.
But it is a relevant topic.
And, man, I love this discussion.
I think everybody so far has dropped some real truth.
And I appreciate that.
I hope this is causing you as a listener to think.
And man, thanks so much, TXMC, for coming up and saying that.
(32:27):
I want to go to BFP.
And BFP, I'm going to forewarn you right now.
If you, in response to TXMC, say you just don't understand Bitcoin or you're part of the fiat system, I'm booting you.
Okay?
So go ahead.
No, actually, I have a question for all of you people that are in this cult.
(32:49):
anyway do you think the bitcoin cult is more of a cult or do you think the CIA or FBI is more of a cult
This space is being recorded.
(33:10):
That was a mic drop.
I don't even have crickets for that one.
You know what?
Let's table that one.
If someone wants to jump back to that one, fine.
But I do see TC with a hand.
So I'm going to let him go first.
No, Pubby was first.
Pubby, did you want to jump right in there?
Yeah, just a real quick one was what TXMC was talking about is, you know, sort of who was new here,
(33:34):
who filters sort of top these ideas and thoughts.
And I think you're absolutely right on is who can best explain this thing called Bitcoin,
who can take this and have an all-encompassing sort of idea about it.
And that's why, you know, you look back at it, one of the best has been Andreas Antonopoulos.
Like, hey, who's this Greek guy with a receding hairline talking to two people in a Motel 6, right?
(34:01):
You look at it now and you laugh, but you still go back.
And if I have to put my life on a line for someone to defend Bitcoin for me, it's going to be that dude because he could break it down.
And Saylor has that sort of gift of breaking it down.
But I will say this is where the cultage part comes in, right?
So this is the guy that led how many people to Bitcoin, but then he had the audacity, the nerve to use his free will.
(34:24):
And I only use Bitcoin as he wanted, but he decided to study Ethereum.
That which shall not be named.
You see?
So you have the best of both worlds here.
I'll just land a point there.
Always got to bring up a shit going on my show.
No, I'm just kidding.
Not my show.
This is your show.
So go ahead, Pubby.
Just litter the stage.
(34:45):
TC, go ahead, sir.
Yeah, I think this is a very interesting topic.
And I've heard a lot of people bringing up the idea of Bitcoin culture recently.
And I can't think of the word cult without the word culture because I believe they are related.
and um you know in in in modern society this world that we live in there's all kinds of things that
(35:16):
align people on different vectors just look at something like sports where you get a bunch of
people who have an affinity for the same sports team and they start wearing the same colored shirts
and hats and then on the same day of the week they all watch the game and they scream and get
really excited or really disappointed. And then they talk about it the rest of the week with their
(35:37):
other compatriots who care about that. And when they're in the grocery store and they see someone
wearing the same color hat or same color shirt, there's that knowing nod. You're like, yeah,
I'm in the cult with you. And that kind of phenomenon, I think, exists on just unknowable
number of vectors. And that's just human beings being human beings because this life experience,
(36:03):
especially in the modern world with all the variety of, you know, sticky behaviors out there
offer all these opportunities for people to align. So then along comes Bitcoin. And now you're
talking about something that, you know, is, is right in the core of the topic of money,
which reaches out and branches out and touches everything in our world these days.
(36:29):
And at the same time, we're living in a world that has just an absolute extreme amount of uncertainty,
an extreme amount of information, and yet so much misinformation and so much just weirdness around,
you know, analysis of what is true and what isn't.
And then through Bitcoin, you find a variety of these sort of revolutionary perspectives.
(36:55):
Like, wait a minute, the money everyone's using is wrong.
We should be using this alternative money system.
And a bunch of people thinking that looks like a cult.
And then you start learning about Bitcoin and how to use it.
And next thing you know, you're doing all kinds of things with all kinds of technology and tools that you never imagined.
(37:16):
And now you're down like this rabbit hole. And it very easily like looks from the outside, like something where, you know, just it's a bunch of people really obsessive over a thing.
But I believe the implications of Bitcoin as far as the monetary change or an alternative to the system that everything seems so locked into, and you're one of these people that wants to step to the side and bypass that main route that everyone's taking.
(37:52):
There's so many different aspects that come into that point of view.
And I believe people on the outside looking at Bitcoin and calling it a cult or believing it's a cult. It's just an easy way to wrap all that up in a bow and dismiss it. It's an easy way to kind of disregard the people that you find obnoxious or annoying or they're trying too hard to orange pill you.
(38:16):
Within Bitcoin, there's just a ton of analysis of one another's points of view and exactly what words you use to describe things.
And everyone's just constantly doing this social human behavior that manifests this way.
(38:37):
I don't think that there's really anything wrong with calling it whatever you want to call it.
at the end of the day, I believe that it really is a journey of your own. And I, I found that it's
incredible how, you know, seeking better money, seeking less uncertainty in the future for myself
(39:00):
and my family has led to like a total dietary change for myself and a whole variety of other
lifestyle changes that, you know, it's just, it's this like self-improvement thing. So that once
again, you know, okay, look at the people who go to the gym religiously. Is that a cult? People
looking to just improve their health and improve themselves. Bitcoin overlaps with just so many of
(39:25):
these things. So hell yeah, it's a cult. Hell no, it's not a cult. Do what you want to do.
It's cool. We can talk to each other on the internet. Yeah, I like that. And I do, it does
remind me that, you know, Bitcoin is a global and diverse community and it's completely voluntary,
Terry, right? You don't have to be here, but I do want to thank each of you for being here.
(39:48):
It's fun to kick around these things, but I really like how you wrap
that up, that it is a cult, but it's not a cult.
And that'll stick with me today. Bitcoin is low time
preference. Yeah, that was
yesterday. Yeah, we did a whole
show yesterday on time preference, but welcome to the stage, Number
(40:11):
and ye go ahead or g however you say your name sorry sir yeah sorry about that it's a g um anyways
yeah no i'd like to talk about it being a cult but not being a cult hearing that it takes me back to
um well it's it's anti-cultural it goes against a lot of these social norms that the world knows
(40:33):
and that the world's comfortable with so when they see you go in the opposite direction or
not participating in kinsian economics then they look at you like what are you doing you're you're
in a cult you don't believe in the same so it's like are we the cult or is the world really the
(40:53):
universal thinking is that the cult thinking is it is the world pushing is the world pushing
people towards you know this universal type of um thinking or understanding you know i believe so
we see a lot of
you know
ancient biblical texts
(41:15):
being censored
you're seeing a lot of information being censored
shit I can't even tell y'all right now
if we did go to the moon back in the space race
like looking at the footage now
so
you know in order for us
to tell all these other non-coiners
or these normies like hey you're wrong
it's you that's
(41:36):
that's part of the cult
You're the one that's telling these people, hey, you're in a cult, but they're so far down.
So far in this system, it's like, what are you talking about?
This is life.
You know, I try to break it down to people a lot and be like, hey, you know, look back in the old days.
The pilgrims and the cavemen, they didn't have to wake up and worry about I need to get to work by 9 a.m.
(42:01):
or I'm going to get a write up or I'm going to have to go see HR.
um yeah it it's a very reminding uh of this movie called what was it called oh uh jesus
revolution if anybody's ever seen that i got dragged to watch it but it was such an inspirational
(42:23):
movie because in the 70s uh faith was counterculture back then so if you were a believer
than you were in a cult.
But just like we're seeing with Bitcoin,
in the movie in the 70s,
you started seeing different believer groups pop up.
Like they started in California in the movie,
(42:45):
and then in the movie they started saying,
oh, well, there's a group popping up in Texas, in Kansas.
So it was kind of interesting to watch and hear that
because I'm seeing the same thing in these Bitcoin circles.
If there's not a Bitcoin community in your local community,
some most some of these bitcoiners will take that upon themselves um and it's just to open eyes to
(43:07):
open doors for people you know the people are the ones who have to walk through i always think about
morpheus when he tells neo that i can show you the door but you have to be the one to walk through it
but now these are cool talks i appreciate letting me come up and uh speak a little bit
yeah for sure man it's always great to have new voices up here and as long as people are
(43:29):
respectful i think it's great to get new voices and uh even opposing viewpoints so yeah thanks so
much for coming up and sharing that with us i'm going to check that out um it's an interesting uh
a way to look at things bfp i see you have your hand up sir go ahead yeah i just wanted to say
something tc mentioned uh bitcoin gets you down different paths like uh the fitness path but uh
(43:56):
technology too and as i was kind of going away from more social media i was kind of into it at
first but i ended up on nostr and testing all that out and now you know when like this morning i saw
bitcoin like dropped from its all-time high down to 117 or something so i'm like huh i wonder what
(44:19):
that's about the first thing i pull up is nostr because that's where this true signal is and
And Twitter is more like a noisy, you got to really dig to find the signal.
But on Noster, right away I see the Besant clip.
Walker posted it.
And it's like, wow, these are new technologies that are very useful.
(44:44):
But, you know, they don't have the spaces, so Twitter is useful also.
And that's just, that's all I had to say.
yeah you know i think i'm going to invite you guys to my next having party my next uh having
watch party where we can just watch the time chain go by and uh we'll all get together and
(45:07):
just watch a screen with some numbers on it and you know it's these types of things i i'm just
it's i'm saying that in jest but it's these types of things though that that people from the outside
look at us and say we're nuts and maybe we are but it's these i don't know i'm just having a good
time guys trying to reminisce on some of these these odd things and then you know we even have
(45:29):
these sayings right like hodl and stack sacks and have fun staying poor and we argue about how we
shouldn't say that to people because it's not very nice and you know if you said that somebody on the
playground when you're a kid they throw dirt in your face um but in again it's it's just all of
these things that I think gives some people some hesitation to learn more. And so, I don't know,
(45:52):
I think maybe it's, again, something we can laugh at, but also something we should be aware of
if we're getting sucked into something. Yeah, look, it's fundamental. Like, I feel like
it's just weird because everybody wants to find a neat way to package it up and understand like
what's going on but fundamentally it's just people relating to one another and i i actually
(46:17):
really appreciate the the thing that g referenced about what happened in society like in the 70s
people kind of like leaving the normal life to go be in communes and then you know a bunch of
these things turn into cults and you know it's just like this is humans trying to find the right
(46:38):
way to live and humans trying to interact with one another and understand if they're aligned or
not. I think Bitcoin does a fabulous job of like doing that in both directions, like pulling people
together and also dividing people. And we see it all the time where you get a bunch of people who
are just 99% aligned, but they're ripping each other's like, you know, they're ripping each other
(47:04):
apart over the 1% where they differ on these things. So it's just a, it's like a challenging,
um, human experience fundamentally, uh, to shift your framework of the world.
And at the same time, I really do think we are at an unusually crazy time these last five years,
(47:27):
as far as the world shifting dramatically and challenging that worldview. So I think that
That catalyzes a more extreme manifestation of that as far as, you know, all the people that go along with the narrative or go along with what they're told and all the people that are like, what the fuck? No, I'm going this other way. And Bitcoin's right in the heart of all that.
(47:52):
And so it's just, I think this is just the nature of whatever vector people would be sort of like choosing the fork in the road based on.
But boy, Bitcoin really illuminates that or really heightens that.
And that's why this is just constantly people feeling good and coming together.
(48:13):
And then people realizing, wait a minute, you think what?
And then like attacking one another.
And I don't know.
I don't think it's really that's cult behavior as much as it's just fundamental human behavior.
Yeah, I like those comments.
23 Skidoo, I see you had your hand up and then put it down.
Did you have something?
(48:33):
Otherwise, I can go to...
Sure, I'll jump in.
Thanks.
Yeah, I think I would change, and I don't mean to change the title of your show, but in my mind, I would change the question to a more relative one.
And that would be, is Bitcoin a tribe or tribalism?
Because cult has to do with leaders in control and behavior patterns that are synonymous and related and kind of a cousin to it all.
(49:01):
But it is more a question of a tribe.
And like with all things, human beings, due to biological and evolutionary history, are tribal creatures.
And as TC mentioned with the sports teams with all of these things right down to the waving of the flag in the nation states These are all tribal behaviors and they have benefits Having a tribe is a good thing but it only a good thing in so far as people are consciously
(49:30):
aware of their behavior patterns and how they're acting.
I had a time on a space where I questioned one of those fundamental kind of premises of Bitcoin.
It was something about like that whole thing that the use of energy is a marker of human happiness or something like that.
(49:51):
I questioned something on there and immediately just had people screaming at me.
But then as soon as someone who I won't name a name, someone who is respected in the Bitcoin space,
You know, one of the people like a Tomer or, you know, one of these writers and thinkers actually agreed with me while everyone was screaming.
(50:14):
All of a sudden, everybody backed off.
Everybody backed off and just put their tail between their legs and went silent because, you know, one of the people in the tribe had spoken.
So watch out for tribal behavior.
You know, I like those comments and I can kick it around here because we do have some hands.
But we are looking for a new producer to the show, so I don't have to do it by myself.
(50:38):
And I'm nominating 23 Skidoo since he would change the name of the space.
Arguably, I'm being bombastic with my...
Thanks, thanks.
No, but it is funny.
Like, you do these spaces and you're like, hey, we want people in here.
So let's talk about something or name the space something crazy to get people in.
Hopefully it did the job.
But tomorrow will be about tribalism.
(51:01):
Pubby, you had your hand up.
Go ahead.
Yeah, something both GS sort of touched upon in 23 Skidoo. 23 Skidoo talked about the cults usually have a leader in control. And maybe the question should be, what kind of cult is this world? And from what GS talked about questioning, hey, you know, I got to look at this moon landing thing.
the term cult usually refers to a very small sect.
(51:25):
And I'm always thinking now the NPC meme, like what is the true cult out there?
Who just believes anything being told by people that control their lives?
Absolutely.
You see?
So when you're looking back, and here's the hard part,
it's when you start in Bitcoin and you understand you've been lied to about the economy
(51:46):
and how they devalue the currency, which is your life work.
Okay?
Now you've got to go.
Here's where you've got to ask the hard questions.
If they lied about this, what else did they lie about?
This is where you're going down.
Well, damn, how did we get into this war?
Well, did we land on the moon?
Okay?
What about 9-11?
(52:07):
What is thermite?
How did Building 7 come down?
It's when you do that, man, you've got a choice at that point, man.
And you keep going or you say, you know what, fuck this, like in the Matrix.
Just give me the steak.
Make it medium rare.
I'm happy with life.
You guys are really trying to get me in trouble with the government.
I see what you're doing there.
It's fun.
(52:27):
G, did you have some comments that you wanted to make on this one?
And then we'll go to Neil after that.
Yeah, one of the guys mentioned earlier, I think it was TC,
about kind of like well about the sports teams thing and how tribalism people want to you know
(52:48):
belong to a group of people um yes that is in our nature inherently but a lot of it too i think um
a lot of it's man-made barriers so what's interesting about us being bitcoiners
and what I'm seeing here just in fiat world is, you know, we can agree on one thing, which
(53:14):
Bitcoin is money. If you look at the world we live in right now, we can't agree on a lot of
things. We could argue that we can talk to regular people and we won't come to an agreement
what money is so therefore we have nothing to work down from right so that creates these barriers
(53:39):
then you bring in these teams and these religions and these politics and they make you choose a side
so now now we have this this barrier here where it's like well i'm republican or i'm democrat
at and it creates this man-made thing between y'all where you can't see it you can't feel it
(54:00):
but it doesn't allow for collaboration um i don't know just something that touched on
that you know i've been seeing a lot of people um bring up a lot of these things you know like for
instance um talking about just faith in general just faith not even bringing up a religion
(54:23):
just faith do you have faith automatically most of the time you're gonna hear somebody i'm catholic
i'm christian i'm lutheran you know i'm jewish all these different types of religion right
um and that's like a barrier just right there and it's like whoa man we weren't even going
down that road i was just asking if you believe i'm not asking in what you believe in but you see
(54:46):
how we just automatically create these barriers and then it's like we're not even talking about
that and that's what i love about bitcoin is like we can talk about all these things but it's like
i'm just talking about bitcoin we're talking about the money but we can get into everything else it
bleeds into everything and people can wander off in that conversation but that's what i love about
(55:07):
bitcoin it's like we can talk and we get to a subject they're passionate about and we'll go
into it and they start wandering off to like uh you know a social issue and that's when i'll catch
and it's like oh you're wandering off you come back to the money let's get back to this root
cause and fix it uh so it's able to break a lot of these barriers and allow for all these talks
(55:27):
and collaboration um that's why we're pushing in well that's why we live in the renaissance 2.0
renaissance 1.0 they had gold so they were able to agree on gold and they made these beautiful
monoliths and you know these um giant structures all this stuff beautiful paintings uh and that's
(55:49):
what i think we're experiencing right now just because we can all come to an agreement on one
thing actually bitcoin is bitcoin let me let me just tack on to that real quick because i hear a
lot of very intense debate over like bitcoin is money no bitcoin is the database and this is kind
of like a very heated thing that's going on lately. What's really cool about Bitcoin and
(56:14):
what makes it so different from some of these other ways that people become organized or
grouped together is that Bitcoin doesn't care what you call it or what you think about
it. You can run it. You can use it. And in so doing, you yourself know exactly what it
(56:35):
is, regardless of what anyone else says. And that is so unique. I think a lot of things people rely
on experts or authorities to tell them, you know, religion is one of those things that people
gather together and you look at the person in the front of the room telling you how to think about
(56:57):
this stuff. And Bitcoin inverts all of that because it puts it all back to you as an individual.
you can go and download the software, you can run it, you can create wallets, you can do transactions,
you can mine, you can do all these things yourself. It doesn't require anyone else to describe it to
(57:18):
you, doesn't require anyone else to agree with you about your perspective on it. The protocol is what
we share, and in using it, you're abiding by the same rule set as everyone else who's using it,
And that is powerful as far as connecting people and aligning people on a very specific angle.
(57:40):
And it just, at that point, all that other discussion over the top is just discussion.
And it's kind of outside of the real thing.
So I think that's actually a kind of a cautionary thing.
I like to tell myself even is like, you know, stop.
It really doesn't matter if somebody says it wrong or has a different way of expressing it or even believes some idea that is conflicting with an idea that I have. It doesn't matter. What's really cool is that the protocol is the signal. That is where you can basically cut through all of that.
(58:18):
And so use it. Use Bitcoin directly. And that's the source of truth. And that's the thing that just doesn't even require you to express it in a certain way or define things in a certain way or any of that.
Yeah, I appreciate that. Did want to see if Neil, yeah, you still have something to say. And then maybe we can go to number here before we wrap up the show. Did want to hear from him as well.
(58:45):
uh yeah just real quick i just uh i can't remember who was saying uh talking about how like
kind of people are outsourcing their thinking you know like you just kind of you don't you don't
want to do the thinking yourself so you just kind of swallow what someone else said uh because you
you trust them or whatever and uh it's really interesting because it's like you can really tell
(59:06):
uh if someone is in is using their brain or not is like when you when you do say something that's
quote unquote wrong speak or like, you know, like this slaughtering of the sacred cows,
you know, like, and I've had, you know, me just kind of fresh into the space, you know,
I'm coming from it from my angle. I'm looking at the surface level analysis of the economics
(59:28):
and this like idea that the money appears broken, the money's broken. And it's like,
I understand why people latch onto that. And I can understand why it's a partial truth from that
surface level analysis. And I'm saying, hey, you know, from my, you know, when I'm getting at the
philosophical roots here, and we consider money as a whole and what it is, you know, it's like,
it's not broken, because it's a tool, because it forms the bonds of our social connections. And it's,
(59:52):
you know, being used to control, extract and enslave. So we really shouldn't conceptualize
it as money is broken, because you know, that forfeits the moral high ground and blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah. And it's like, I get attacked, you know, and I can tell instantly when discussing
these, you know, uh, ideas with people, whether or not they're literally just, they just swallowed
this thing and they can't even entertain the fact that it, there's more to it or that it's wrong.
(01:00:19):
And it's like, I, I feel, I feel bad for these people because, uh, like they don't actually,
I don't think they understand, you know, if you're not using your own brain to kind of validate
reality yourself, like you're going to walk off a cliff eventually, you're going to hit reality,
you're going to walk into something and you could get hurt. So it's like, always have your head on
(01:00:42):
the swivel, always be validating stuff for yourself. Think about it. And if you can't,
like, if you can't defend your own beliefs, your own conceptions or ideas, then it's like, that's,
it's kind of a different, like the flip side of the like fiat world. Like it's just kind of,
I don't know. I just I'm just always advocating for, you know, we want to talk about our monetary sovereignty.
(01:01:05):
You know, it's like, well, you're a ration. Take your rational sovereignty, too.
You know, like, I don't know. I just want to add that.
You're just too into the fiat system, Neil. You just don't understand.
Just kidding. OK, number did want to get to you. How are you doing this morning?
I think we live in a comforting version of reality.
(01:01:30):
One where chaos is not really shown and the system works as it should, but Bitcoin just completely destroys that.
Yeah, thanks for that.
Let's see, we have Puncher.
Puncher, did you have any comments?
(01:01:51):
I know you kind of joined late, but we were just talking about,
we were kind of laughing at each other ourselves,
talking about the Bitcoin cult or lack thereof, why it is a cult, why it's not.
And yeah, curious to hear if you had any thoughts on this topic.
Yeah. I mean, it's the only cult that,
I question everyone, slay your heroes and all your preconceptions.
(01:02:16):
So, you know, I do tend to think that it's more of it's tribal in nature, not cultish in nature.
There are no leaders, even though there are from time to time people we look up to inside the tribe.
But, you know, I'm here for the separation.
It's a larger goal, right?
It's a common goal of the separation of money from the state.
(01:02:40):
But Bessent's comments don't bother me at all.
I don't believe that the United States
Won't be acquiring Bitcoin
That's foolish because their adversaries will
And Bitcoin is
Money for your enemies
But that's all great
I want the separation of money
Which is the root of all power
Which is the root of the power of the state
(01:03:00):
Separated from the state
And I want decentralized money
So it's all good
But I enjoyed the conversation guys
And thanks very much
And just a shameless plug
We're going to have Jeff Booth on Bitcoin today
tomorrow at nine o'clock. So a lot of these questions, you know, Jeff's been on a lot of
podcasts, but he hasn't been on spaces. So we'll open up and have plenty of time for questions if
(01:03:22):
you want to listen in, because there's a lot going on. And I'm sure a lot of people would
like to ask him those questions. Yeah, thanks for that. And yeah, Bitcoin today does run at 1130
Eastern each weekday and always a good time. I think those guys are pretty funny. I would,
I don't know. I try to be funny, but my jokes are more dad jokes.
(01:03:44):
And I'm not as in command of the soundboard as Lauren is.
Somebody's got to confiscate that soundboard. That's for Dan.
I'm putting a, I'm putting a bounty out on that soundboard.
Yeah. I did introduce him to the soundboard. He just uses it better than I do.
So, but guys, this has been fun.
I hope if you were a listener that you enjoyed today,
(01:04:06):
I hope you've enjoyed this week.
We haven't gotten into any news topics.
We'll try to keep that going tomorrow.
We'll see what kind of crazy name of a space I can come up with and drag you guys in here again.
But we do do this each weekday at 10 a.m. Eastern.
Would love it if you'd continue to join us.
We're just having fun, making fun of ourselves, kicking around these topics, hopefully making you think and challenge some of your biases.
(01:04:33):
And so also helping you relate to other people as you talk to people about Bitcoin.
And they're trying to figure out what this bright orange future is.
So that's a wrap. Do want to thank everybody. Follow everybody who is up here today on the stage speaking.
Thanks to all the new speakers. Thanks to all of those who listen each and every day.
(01:04:55):
And you know what? I'm going to give BFP a warning, even though he dropped down.
CIA crickets
Matrix birds
Yeah I love it when you guys try to get me in trouble
But that's all we have for today
Want to wish you a wonderful Thursday
And remember
As always please do not shitcoin
It's just not
(01:05:21):
Smart
It's not good for you
Don't do it
Fiat currency as a store of value.
We call them we poor.
We call them we poor.
Thank you.
(00:30):
All right, good morning, everybody.
Hopefully I can get this stuff working here this morning.
Been a crazy day already, and hopefully you're enjoying it.
Let's see.
(00:50):
We got a bunch of people filing in, hopefully, and we're going to talk about cult-like behavior,
echo chambers maybe a little bit of bitcoin price but hopefully not too much and uh yeah it should
be fun we'll let people file in please we re-post the space so we can reach out to as many people
as possible we're gonna have a fun thursday here and hang out but want to welcome everyone and say
(01:15):
good morning good morning we are back at it again today thank you for joining bitcoin veteran spaces
number 243, where we talk about Bitcoin. My name is Bob Van Kirk. I'll be your host this morning.
And I am also joined by your other co-host, Texas Toast. Good morning, sir. And good morning to those
(01:38):
of you on stage. Welcome in everyone who faithfully listens every day. Let's take a look at the stats
for today is thursday august 14 2025 and we are at bitcoin block height 910 021 with the last block
(01:58):
found just about 35 minutes ago so this one's a little over time but that's okay looks like the
bitcoin price hasn't moved much since our show yesterday hovering just above 118 000 which means
you can still pick up 846 sats for each us dollar and if you guys got caught up in the price pump
(02:22):
uh since our last show and you uh fomoed in uh welcome to bitcoin and uh this is par for the
course good stuff hopefully nobody uh is is wrecked but uh i do think it's funny and it was
fun to play some good old time music wipeout. That was,
(02:45):
that was fun to kick off the show. So let's see one announcement and then we'll
get going here. And if you guys want to have a sip of that grape juice while
we're, while I'm making this announcement,
we'll get into the cult talk here in a second,
but Bitcoin veterans is having their second annual summit on November 10th and
(03:06):
11th in Nashville.
Day one is going to be conference day, and day two will be range day, where you will get the chance to shoot some targets with some firearms.
Looking for people to get involved, so please do visit bitcoinveterans.org forward slash summit 2025.
Looking for speakers, panel topics, volunteers, and attendees if you don't want to get up on stage, make yourself known.
(03:33):
All right, that's my announcement for this morning.
And wanted to say good morning.
Go around the horn.
Thanks for joining us again.
Texas Toast, do you have your coffee this morning?
How are you?
Connection good.
Stable.
Feeling good.
I really hope they involve Tannerite in some way at the shooting event.
(03:57):
That would be cool.
Yeah, we can dive into some of that maybe.
Neil, how are you doing, sir?
Real good, real good.
Another day.
Yes.
And BFP, how are you this morning?
I'm well, Bob.
(04:18):
Thanks for having me.
Another great day.
And we'll round it out with Pubby.
How are you, sir?
Oh, man, too good.
Hey, I like when you have the surf music going.
At first, I thought that was Sam the Shaman of Pharaohs with Lully Polly.
But no, that was a safaris with wiped out.
Good call on the music.
(04:38):
Yeah.
So I just, I timed it pretty well.
I sold at 121 yesterday, bought back in at 120.
So you can say I'm up a bit today.
Thank you.
Trader Pubby, stack and sets in an interesting way.
But yes, good morning.
And yeah, some people saw an opportunity.
(04:59):
Some people maybe got wiped out.
But yes, I'll take that into consideration for tomorrow's music as we wait for people to file in.
I always try to throw something a little different in there.
And if you're listening on the recording, you're probably hearing the normal intro music.
But when we do the live spaces, I try to keep it interesting and throw something different on the live show every day because I get bored.
(05:28):
And so I do it for myself and maybe you too.
But let's see. Let's look at the topic this morning.
You know, we've been kind of skirting around the news, not really covering it.
We can definitely jump into some of those topics today.
But I think it's a little more fun to talk about some of these topics around Bitcoin and maybe poke fun at ourselves from time to time.
(05:55):
So this morning.
I'm a cult expert.
at this point.
What kind of cult is this, Texas?
Well, you know, we all got so many different types of cults in our lives.
I went to a school.
You know, you can get involved in cultish behavior when you're, you know,
really wanting your football team to win, especially here in Texas.
(06:19):
That can become extreme, let's say.
So I can understand the cultish behavior there.
There's a few universities out there that display cultish behavior.
It's okay.
Cult stuff is cool.
It's radical.
(06:39):
We talked about on Tomer's stuff.
It's kind of extreme.
So I appreciate it to an extent.
It's when it gets overdone or irrational, that's when it can get scary.
but overall I think it, you know,
a lot of the slander behind cults and stuff is like,
(07:02):
is just the radical nature of it. So
kind of take it as a compliment.
Yeah. As long as the cult's not dangerous. Right.
And so my cult would never be dangerous.
BFP. I see your hand. Go ahead, sir.
I think cult, like Texas toast said, cult gets a bad rap,
(07:23):
But culture, which is kind of the same word, just with a little extension, the Bitcoin culture is one of the best cultures I've ever been a part of because people are truth seekers and real people.
And you learn from these people and you don't get I mean, there are bad people in every culture, so it's not like it's perfect.
(07:47):
But like you said, every cult can get dangerous and every culture can get dangerous, too, if they start sniffing their own farts and believe in nonsensical things and not – go ahead.
No, yeah, I was just going to – I absolutely agree.
(08:09):
The ability for this culture in particular to kind of police itself and call each other out and debate the ideas I think is very valuable.
Exactly.
You're going to call me out.
I'm going to call you out.
(08:29):
Bob's going to call Pubby out if you say something nonsensical and that doesn't resonate.
We're all in the same boat, but we're not afraid of uncomfortable confrontations or discourse.
(08:49):
Discourse is how you get.
Discourse is good.
Bitcoiners love it.
I totally agree.
And I think that, you know, sometimes we do get in here and we have these echo chambers, maybe not this space, but maybe sometimes this space at admittedly.
(09:10):
And I think it is good to have differing opinions.
I think one of the rubs in Bitcoin spaces comes with this idea of Bitcoin maximalism, where people are just, you know, single minded, single focused, nothing else matters.
and they truly do see things only through orange colored glasses, which I can appreciate.
(09:34):
But there is more to life than Bitcoin.
And I really enjoy it.
I love talking about it, as you know, being up here.
But there's so many great things in life.
And I think sometimes we need to just step away and understand what else is out there.
continue learning and not just with these orange colored glasses.
(09:58):
So that doesn't mean I'm a shit coiner.
It just means I'm open minded.
And it means that I you can't only look at the world through one lens.
Now, if you guys want to disagree, by all means.
But I'm going to stop this monologue and go to Pubby.
Oh, I was just going to add another sort of difference is that most colts,
(10:20):
they keep the family away from you.
They intercept their letters, them coming for you.
But the Bitcoin cult, you usually remove yourself from the normies if you've worn out your welcome arms pilling.
So that's one major difference is you will only take yourself out of society.
You don't have to be forced.
It's kind of like the military.
You're making me think I'm in the Navy again.
(10:40):
I don't know.
Old boot camp.
The old boot camp letter search is always a good one.
We're going to take you out in the middle of the sea, separate you from your family.
We are going to make you question everything about life, and then we're going to pump you full of information that is useful at the time, maybe useful later, but we don't know.
(11:00):
We're just trying to scare you.
The only fresh air you're going to get is the smoke deck.
Exactly.
If you're lucky, we'll give you some sea air.
No, but all good.
I think this is a fun topic, guys, because we do have to poke fun at ourselves.
I do think we can look at it both ways and say that sometimes there is cult-like behavior, but I really like what BFP said about this idea of culture, not just cult, but culture.
(11:30):
And so, you know, I think the reason that sometimes Bitcoiners can be accused and be labeled as having cult-like mentality is because you start seeing this, what I would say sometimes be a radical and passionate focus on one single aspect of life, which is this digital scarcity that we talk about so much.
(11:59):
And so not to defend it, but I think we can kick around this topic from quite a few different angles and would love to hear from Neil this morning.
Good morning, sir, and go ahead.
Yeah, I'm just going to riff a little bit in that same vein of the culture because it's like when you go back to the etymology of the word, I mean, it has like farming roots, like the Latin root, you know, to cultivate, to till, to nourish a plant.
(12:29):
to produce a harvest, you know, to produce an end.
And it's like that's taken root in our human relations societally,
how we organize, how we adopt values and virtues to achieve, you know,
a particular end, a particular harvest, which is, you know,
when we throw around the term cult as like a derogatory thing,
(12:52):
like you're in a cult, you're in a that.
It's like, I mean, that's kind of a bastardization of the actual meanings
of the word because like to be human is to be cultured to be in a cult like that's kind of just
a universe it's like a non it means every it applies to all so it doesn't really uh i don't
know it's not really helpful uh word in that sense um and so it's just like why does bitcoin
(13:18):
or why do bitcoiners get kind of oh you're in a cult-like behavior it's like well we've galvanized
around a particular end.
You know, we've our values and our virtues,
which we enact in our everyday lives,
trying to achieve this end, get to that end.
(13:39):
It's just, it's different than the normal counter.
Like it is a kind of counter-cultural thing
in the sense that it just, it's going against the grain.
Like we're not about just extracting from each other.
Like we want these positive sum games
that we all win at and we create abundance.
(14:00):
Like that's kind of in my head,
just the most simplistic way of putting it.
Like, well, what is the harvest we're trying to get?
You know, we're trying to not have, you know,
extractive, coercive slavery with debasement.
We like to have our social bonds, you know, not be changed.
(14:21):
We would like them to be cooperative, you know, loving relationships where people come together voluntarily.
People come together and enact their free will, fully, you know, fully actualize their rational capacity as a moral agent and just be this complete dignified human being.
(14:42):
Like that's that's very much so different than the culture we're steeped in.
So it sticks out. And that's why we get labeled as such.
But to one slight other point, the Bitcoin maximalism thing, like to me, all that means to me is just it's a recognition that Bitcoin is the maximally potent monetary object.
(15:08):
Like it's nothing like I don't care what it does to me.
That doesn't mean what you're doing or anything like that.
It's just like if you recognize Bitcoin for what it is as that maximally potent object, you will act accordingly to that.
Like if that starts to guide your behavior, I mean, that's going to send you in that direction.
But that's all I got for riffing.
(15:29):
Man, go ahead, BFP.
But yeah, I love what you're saying, Neil.
That was magnificent.
I'm going to go back and listen to that again.
yeah now he uh he um made me think of just the word play that that whole cultivate uh the way
he said that so it made me think of acculturation everyone acculturates their children we acculturate
(15:54):
them so they don't drop their pants and pee at the playground you know us as bitcoiners
we're acculturating normies to understand what they're using in everyday life.
You know, money is just a tool and you're using an inferior form of money that is from actually the 1930s.
(16:19):
And it acculturation So that just what I had another point but I forgot it Can we use bigger and bigger words
Because I need some help.
I need a dictionary.
I read too much, so I get all these goofy words in my brain.
(16:44):
That might be something we have to clip.
Eating France.
I miss that when we were having Coleman on here more regularly, but welcome to the stage, sir. How are you?
Hey, good morning, everybody. Sorry, joined a little late, but enjoying the conversation. So I'm just going to kind of sit back and kind of my entry.
(17:06):
Awesome.
One of the things I wanted to bring up this morning, and maybe we can riff on a little bit as well,
is I think one of the reasons that people start labeling Bitcoiners as a cult
is because of charismatic figures and thought leaders who like to share their wisdom with us,
like Michael Saylor, Jack Maulers, I could name a lot of others.
(17:30):
But I wonder what people think about these charismatic leaders.
Do you guys think that that is a fair assessment because of what people from the outside see?
Or is it really not applicable because Bitcoin is decentralized and has no central leader?
(17:53):
What say you guys?
I had the Bitcoin maxi comment is what I was going to say.
And I think it was Jack Mahler's that explained this to me.
It was a derogatory term.
And basically Bitcoiners always take derogatory terms about them and they use them.
(18:13):
They use them in a way that makes everyone understand something about Bitcoin.
So Bitcoin Maxis
And I don't know if you guys saw Besson come out
And say what he said
More people are paying attention to guys like Besson and Jerome Powell
(18:33):
Than Saylor and Jack Mahler
We pay attention to the people that have signal
Yeah, what do other people think about some of these charismatic leaders?
Again, if you're just joining us, guys
please do repost the space.
Love to get more people in here,
but we're just kind of laughing at ourselves a little bit here this
(18:55):
morning.
And also looking at some of the cult-like behavior and maybe not
explaining it away,
but some of us are trying to justify it.
But I think it's fun.
And it's also hopefully educational from some of you as you talk to
people.
But Jimmy,
I see your hand.
Go ahead,
sir.
Thanks for coming up.
(19:17):
Yeah.
Good morning.
And it just reminds me of something that I used to always tell people that to me,
Bitcoin seemed to be like a tribe with no chief, a religion with no God, and a cult with no leader.
And then I was at an event, I think it was in 2020, in Ensenada, Mexico, with a bunch of OGs.
And Giacomo Zucco was the only one that, we all were speakers, but he was the only one that had given his own platform.
(19:38):
We were all on panels.
And Giacomo gave this great speech.
I wish we had a recording of it.
But at the end of it, the punchline was, cult harder.
That's what I love about Maxis.
These old Gs that have been in the space so long, they embrace it.
They're like, yeah, it's a cult.
Damn right it is.
But what's funny was the guy that was attacking everybody, calling it a cult, was Udi.
(20:00):
And if anybody's more of a cult leader, it's Udi.
He's got people following him, like taproot wizards, all this dressing up and all this stuff.
Dick winners don't have a leader.
The reality is it's a cult-like thing.
Who are you following?
You're following yourself.
At least I am.
I think most of you are.
So, yeah, it's a rather interesting dynamic that we all come together,
and yet we really don't have anybody that we're following.
(20:21):
As far as I see it, it's a mix of people.
But, yeah, I thought it was pretty good the way Giacomo Colt Harder
had become a phrase between a bunch of us.
So, yeah, Colt Harder.
Or slay your heroes.
Neil, I see your hands up again.
Go ahead, sir.
Yeah, on the leadership thing, so from, like, a philosophical,
(20:43):
like leadership is just kind of the the directing of collective action right like so that necessarily
makes like morality the determining of the end uh like the technical foundation of leadership
and so from that kind of from that understanding when we when we the way we say bitcoin doesn't
(21:09):
have leaders, it's kind of a, it's like a kind of mangled meaning of that word. Because just
coming into this space and someone talking about the truth or something like explaining, describing
reality and saying, hey, if you want to go here, take this path, like that's a form of leadership.
(21:30):
And I mean, like we're saying there's no one forcing you to do that. You know, like that's
when they're like, Bitcoin doesn't have a leader.
It's like, yes, it doesn't have a president.
It doesn't have a quote-unquote authority figure
that dictates and forces, you know, coercive action.
That's correct.
But Bitcoin is full of leaders.
(21:51):
Like, you know, we're all leaders.
We're up here talking.
We're speaking.
We're describing reality.
And we're trying to, like, arm people with that.
Not like if they don't...
We're trying to provide clarity for people
so that they can direct their, you know, action.
And we come together collectively to achieve these goals.
Like we're all part of the network.
(22:12):
We're all running nodes.
We're all like, so like that's collective action.
And, you know, we don't have the authoritarian coercive figure that we don't have an enforcer
that forces that.
But I mean, we do have leaders and I don't know.
It just like I I just think that when we're talking about when we when we juxtapose or compare that to like the quote unquote cult leader.
(22:38):
Well, they're selling something that's not true.
They're selling something that's not real.
And they're relying on your trust in them.
So like everything that I said in my book, I'm saying, don't trust me.
Like I'm describing to you how I I'm seeing reality and you can validate that yourself.
(23:03):
You are a rational creature. You are your own node, like validate it yourself.
But like, you know, don't trust me. So it's like the quote unquote cult leader relies completely on the trust, your blind trust in them.
Like everything that sailor says that's right. It's right because it's true, not because he said it.
And like I listen to him and I validate the things he says myself and I pick up what I agree with, what I validate.
(23:32):
And if I think he's off on something, I just discard it.
Like, that's fine.
You know, like so, I mean, I don't know.
The leadership thing is kind of it's it really is cooperative, too.
Like we learn from each other.
And I think that's good.
Yeah.
No, I like that.
And I think it's one of those things where, you know, some people just don't want to think and they don't want to challenge.
(23:55):
And so I do think it's good, you know, like BFP said, slay your heroes, right?
It's kind of like you have to filter and you have to digest and contemplate what's being said and not take things at face value.
And I think that's maybe one of the valuable lessons about getting involved in Bitcoin.
We should be leery.
(24:15):
And you hear the terms like don't trust verify.
And I do think that's important.
It's a skill in life, not just for people who are interested in Bitcoin, but maybe Bitcoin helps some people see that they need to do that.
So let's see.
I think I see a couple of hands.
(24:35):
We can really take this anywhere, guys.
So feel free to jump in.
But I did.
Let's see.
I think Pubby still has his hand up.
Oh, yeah. Just, you know, something Neil said really resonated with me. You know, it's not true because someone says it, like a sailor. You know, it's true because it's just true. And when you've been here long enough, look, you've got a loose affiliation of, I don't even know if you want to call them thought leaders, but a topic will come up and people wait on Twitter.
(25:04):
well, yeah, what's Adam Back have to say about this?
Or what does so-and-so have to say about this?
At the end, everyone's sort of an individual, obviously.
But yeah, you see the, I don't know if you want to call them thought leaders or whatever,
but it's the same group that rotates through the podcast circuit,
you know, through the years you've been here and Booth and Foss
and everyone else goes through there.
(25:25):
But they give you food for thought.
And now when it comes to, yeah, you know,
Bitcoin isn't true because we say it's true.
It was true because, fuck, man, you got 16 years now, 16 years of looking at this thing.
And, you know, when I when I was starting to orange pill, watching it drop and all this, but believing in it and and moving forward.
(25:46):
Now people come back to you and say, is you still in that cold thing or how do I get?
Look, man, I don't know what else to tell you.
Bitcoin, there is so much education material out there for you to see.
OK, it's true because it's true.
I don't know how many years you need to believe it.
That's up to you.
But we're at 16 years now.
(26:07):
If you want to wait until 20, 25, whatever is good for you, that's fine.
But that's the most beautiful part about this.
It's not an individual that is leading Bitcoin.
Bitcoin just leads to charge.
That's it.
Yeah, I like that.
I do think that, you know, again, there's a lot of ways we can look at this.
One of the things that I'll say just pisses me off the most when I'm in spaces is, or even on just X comments, all those things, is that a lot of times critics are dismissed as simply just not understanding Bitcoin or, you know, oh, you're just part of the fiat system.
(26:44):
And I think that that is what leads to people calling it a cult or an echo chamber.
And sometimes I think, you know, if you're honest with yourself, you even feel that.
But I wanted to say good morning and welcome to TXMC.
I think he has some thoughts on this with his hands up.
Go ahead.
Yeah, Bob.
Thanks, man.
(27:04):
Enjoying listening to you guys.
I do have some opinions on this.
As someone who often feels like he's like on the periphery of some undefined group that is in Bitcoin here.
like I agree with some of what Neil said in the sense like yeah there are there are no leaders
we're just kind of a bunch of individuals but there are thought leaders for lack of a better term
(27:29):
that get elevated because this is a difficult to understand thing for people who've never
learned about money or or have limited understanding of finance or in history like
you have to kind of do your research, as we all know. And the willingness of people to do that
varies wildly. So we can't, it's nice to assume that all Bitcoiners are like, don't trust,
(27:54):
verify, very discriminating and scrutinizing about things they hear, and they always do their own
research. A lot of people, honestly, want to outsource their thinking on complex topics to
people that they feel have a better handle on it than them. And what ends up happening is you get
this, it's, I don't mean this to be completely derogatory, but maybe a little bit, but you end
(28:15):
up with this varsity team of influencers who kind of drive a lot of the narratives. They come up with
catchphrases. And then you end up with kind of like this tribal behavior where a bunch of people
adopt those things as their own. They adopt those ideas. They adopt those turns of phrase.
And then in every conversation, every space, a lot of the podcasts you hear, people just kind of,
(28:36):
They use this colloquial language to signal that they're part of the group and that they understand.
And I don't think it's a cult.
Sometimes we use the word cult as an insult, and some people may actually mean it.
I don't really think it's a cult, but I do think there is a tendency for intellectual laziness because this is a hard-to-understand thing.
(29:01):
And I think that leads to a lot of groupthink and a lot of lack of challenging, diverse ideas within the group.
It's really easy to hear Peter Schiff, or I'm just pulling someone out of the hat, a Peter Schiff type, someone who's constantly negative, Charlie Munger.
It's really easy to pick apart their critiques.
(29:22):
This guy doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
But there's a lot of times within Bitcoin, I'm speaking from personal experience, where I can be like, listen, I don't think what these influencer people are saying even makes sense.
They're trying, you know, a lot of these people are, this is not an insult to Neil because I haven't read his book and I'm sure it's wonderful, but there are other people who have written books.
(29:46):
They have podcasts.
They have content to sell.
They have businesses.
and their opinions are heavily shaped by their own ability to sell you those things and sell
those things to an audience and appear as an expert. And I just get frustrated because
I take my own path. I don't like to read Bitcoin or curated versions of history. I like to read my
(30:10):
own history books and kind of come up with my own opinions about things. A lot of times I will
express those things. And they are resoundingly shut down by people telling me, I don't understand
anything about Bitcoin when I literally spend thousands of hours trying to understand this stuff.
And so I think what I just kind of put a bow on my opinion here, I don't, I agree that it's not a
(30:34):
cult. And there are, for the most part, good people just trying to understand this thing,
be on the right side of a bet and put themselves in a position to benefit financially over the long term by having the right idea about this thing.
But along the way, there is a lot of cultish attitude in the sense that people get lazy in their thinking,
(30:57):
and they just want someone else like a sailor type or a Jeff Booth type or someone to tell them what the future is going to look like,
and that they decide, oh, I like that.
I'm going to adopt that as my own.
And then their learning kind of stops there. And I experienced this a lot. People just kind of stop learning at that point and being critical in their thinking. And they just assume, well, this guy has a handle on it. He clearly must be right. This is the direction it's going. I see it now. It's so obvious. And anyone who doesn't agree just doesn't understand Bitcoin.
(31:27):
And I would just encourage people to get away from that thinking and don't assume that just because someone is in the bet with you that they have the same mindset as you and the same incentives that you do.
At the end of the day, this is just a monetary asset.
It's not something, in my opinion, people should build a personality around.
(31:47):
It's just some money.
Life is much bigger than this.
You know, you really take some chances when you name a Bitcoin veterans morning space.
What kind of cult is this?
And actually, I was having a conversation with a good friend last night who we used to joke around when we'd hang out.
We'd say, what kind of cult are you in?
(32:07):
And so that's where the name came from.
But it is a relevant topic.
And, man, I love this discussion.
I think everybody so far has dropped some real truth.
And I appreciate that.
I hope this is causing you as a listener to think.
And man, thanks so much, TXMC, for coming up and saying that.
(32:27):
I want to go to BFP.
And BFP, I'm going to forewarn you right now.
If you, in response to TXMC, say you just don't understand Bitcoin or you're part of the fiat system, I'm booting you.
Okay?
So go ahead.
No, actually, I have a question for all of you people that are in this cult.
(32:49):
anyway do you think the bitcoin cult is more of a cult or do you think the CIA or FBI is more of a cult
This space is being recorded.
(33:10):
That was a mic drop.
I don't even have crickets for that one.
You know what?
Let's table that one.
If someone wants to jump back to that one, fine.
But I do see TC with a hand.
So I'm going to let him go first.
No, Pubby was first.
Pubby, did you want to jump right in there?
Yeah, just a real quick one was what TXMC was talking about is, you know, sort of who was new here,
(33:34):
who filters sort of top these ideas and thoughts.
And I think you're absolutely right on is who can best explain this thing called Bitcoin,
who can take this and have an all-encompassing sort of idea about it.
And that's why, you know, you look back at it, one of the best has been Andreas Antonopoulos.
Like, hey, who's this Greek guy with a receding hairline talking to two people in a Motel 6, right?
(34:01):
You look at it now and you laugh, but you still go back.
And if I have to put my life on a line for someone to defend Bitcoin for me, it's going to be that dude because he could break it down.
And Saylor has that sort of gift of breaking it down.
But I will say this is where the cultage part comes in, right?
So this is the guy that led how many people to Bitcoin, but then he had the audacity, the nerve to use his free will.
(34:24):
And I only use Bitcoin as he wanted, but he decided to study Ethereum.
That which shall not be named.
You see?
So you have the best of both worlds here.
I'll just land a point there.
Always got to bring up a shit going on my show.
No, I'm just kidding.
Not my show.
This is your show.
So go ahead, Pubby.
Just litter the stage.
(34:45):
TC, go ahead, sir.
Yeah, I think this is a very interesting topic.
And I've heard a lot of people bringing up the idea of Bitcoin culture recently.
And I can't think of the word cult without the word culture because I believe they are related.
and um you know in in in modern society this world that we live in there's all kinds of things that
(35:16):
align people on different vectors just look at something like sports where you get a bunch of
people who have an affinity for the same sports team and they start wearing the same colored shirts
and hats and then on the same day of the week they all watch the game and they scream and get
really excited or really disappointed. And then they talk about it the rest of the week with their
(35:37):
other compatriots who care about that. And when they're in the grocery store and they see someone
wearing the same color hat or same color shirt, there's that knowing nod. You're like, yeah,
I'm in the cult with you. And that kind of phenomenon, I think, exists on just unknowable
number of vectors. And that's just human beings being human beings because this life experience,
(36:03):
especially in the modern world with all the variety of, you know, sticky behaviors out there
offer all these opportunities for people to align. So then along comes Bitcoin. And now you're
talking about something that, you know, is, is right in the core of the topic of money,
which reaches out and branches out and touches everything in our world these days.
(36:29):
And at the same time, we're living in a world that has just an absolute extreme amount of uncertainty,
an extreme amount of information, and yet so much misinformation and so much just weirdness around,
you know, analysis of what is true and what isn't.
And then through Bitcoin, you find a variety of these sort of revolutionary perspectives.
(36:55):
Like, wait a minute, the money everyone's using is wrong.
We should be using this alternative money system.
And a bunch of people thinking that looks like a cult.
And then you start learning about Bitcoin and how to use it.
And next thing you know, you're doing all kinds of things with all kinds of technology and tools that you never imagined.
(37:16):
And now you're down like this rabbit hole. And it very easily like looks from the outside, like something where, you know, just it's a bunch of people really obsessive over a thing.
But I believe the implications of Bitcoin as far as the monetary change or an alternative to the system that everything seems so locked into, and you're one of these people that wants to step to the side and bypass that main route that everyone's taking.
(37:52):
There's so many different aspects that come into that point of view.
And I believe people on the outside looking at Bitcoin and calling it a cult or believing it's a cult. It's just an easy way to wrap all that up in a bow and dismiss it. It's an easy way to kind of disregard the people that you find obnoxious or annoying or they're trying too hard to orange pill you.
(38:16):
Within Bitcoin, there's just a ton of analysis of one another's points of view and exactly what words you use to describe things.
And everyone's just constantly doing this social human behavior that manifests this way.
(38:37):
I don't think that there's really anything wrong with calling it whatever you want to call it.
at the end of the day, I believe that it really is a journey of your own. And I, I found that it's
incredible how, you know, seeking better money, seeking less uncertainty in the future for myself
(39:00):
and my family has led to like a total dietary change for myself and a whole variety of other
lifestyle changes that, you know, it's just, it's this like self-improvement thing. So that once
again, you know, okay, look at the people who go to the gym religiously. Is that a cult? People
looking to just improve their health and improve themselves. Bitcoin overlaps with just so many of
(39:25):
these things. So hell yeah, it's a cult. Hell no, it's not a cult. Do what you want to do.
It's cool. We can talk to each other on the internet. Yeah, I like that. And I do, it does
remind me that, you know, Bitcoin is a global and diverse community and it's completely voluntary,
Terry, right? You don't have to be here, but I do want to thank each of you for being here.
(39:48):
It's fun to kick around these things, but I really like how you wrap
that up, that it is a cult, but it's not a cult.
And that'll stick with me today. Bitcoin is low time
preference. Yeah, that was
yesterday. Yeah, we did a whole
show yesterday on time preference, but welcome to the stage, Number
(40:11):
and ye go ahead or g however you say your name sorry sir yeah sorry about that it's a g um anyways
yeah no i'd like to talk about it being a cult but not being a cult hearing that it takes me back to
um well it's it's anti-cultural it goes against a lot of these social norms that the world knows
(40:33):
and that the world's comfortable with so when they see you go in the opposite direction or
not participating in kinsian economics then they look at you like what are you doing you're you're
in a cult you don't believe in the same so it's like are we the cult or is the world really the
(40:53):
universal thinking is that the cult thinking is it is the world pushing is the world pushing
people towards you know this universal type of um thinking or understanding you know i believe so
we see a lot of
you know
ancient biblical texts
(41:15):
being censored
you're seeing a lot of information being censored
shit I can't even tell y'all right now
if we did go to the moon back in the space race
like looking at the footage now
so
you know in order for us
to tell all these other non-coiners
or these normies like hey you're wrong
it's you that's
(41:36):
that's part of the cult
You're the one that's telling these people, hey, you're in a cult, but they're so far down.
So far in this system, it's like, what are you talking about?
This is life.
You know, I try to break it down to people a lot and be like, hey, you know, look back in the old days.
The pilgrims and the cavemen, they didn't have to wake up and worry about I need to get to work by 9 a.m.
(42:01):
or I'm going to get a write up or I'm going to have to go see HR.
um yeah it it's a very reminding uh of this movie called what was it called oh uh jesus
revolution if anybody's ever seen that i got dragged to watch it but it was such an inspirational
(42:23):
movie because in the 70s uh faith was counterculture back then so if you were a believer
than you were in a cult.
But just like we're seeing with Bitcoin,
in the movie in the 70s,
you started seeing different believer groups pop up.
Like they started in California in the movie,
(42:45):
and then in the movie they started saying,
oh, well, there's a group popping up in Texas, in Kansas.
So it was kind of interesting to watch and hear that
because I'm seeing the same thing in these Bitcoin circles.
If there's not a Bitcoin community in your local community,
some most some of these bitcoiners will take that upon themselves um and it's just to open eyes to
(43:07):
open doors for people you know the people are the ones who have to walk through i always think about
morpheus when he tells neo that i can show you the door but you have to be the one to walk through it
but now these are cool talks i appreciate letting me come up and uh speak a little bit
yeah for sure man it's always great to have new voices up here and as long as people are
(43:29):
respectful i think it's great to get new voices and uh even opposing viewpoints so yeah thanks so
much for coming up and sharing that with us i'm going to check that out um it's an interesting uh
a way to look at things bfp i see you have your hand up sir go ahead yeah i just wanted to say
something tc mentioned uh bitcoin gets you down different paths like uh the fitness path but uh
(43:56):
technology too and as i was kind of going away from more social media i was kind of into it at
first but i ended up on nostr and testing all that out and now you know when like this morning i saw
bitcoin like dropped from its all-time high down to 117 or something so i'm like huh i wonder what
(44:19):
that's about the first thing i pull up is nostr because that's where this true signal is and
And Twitter is more like a noisy, you got to really dig to find the signal.
But on Noster, right away I see the Besant clip.
Walker posted it.
And it's like, wow, these are new technologies that are very useful.
(44:44):
But, you know, they don't have the spaces, so Twitter is useful also.
And that's just, that's all I had to say.
yeah you know i think i'm going to invite you guys to my next having party my next uh having
watch party where we can just watch the time chain go by and uh we'll all get together and
(45:07):
just watch a screen with some numbers on it and you know it's these types of things i i'm just
it's i'm saying that in jest but it's these types of things though that that people from the outside
look at us and say we're nuts and maybe we are but it's these i don't know i'm just having a good
time guys trying to reminisce on some of these these odd things and then you know we even have
(45:29):
these sayings right like hodl and stack sacks and have fun staying poor and we argue about how we
shouldn't say that to people because it's not very nice and you know if you said that somebody on the
playground when you're a kid they throw dirt in your face um but in again it's it's just all of
these things that I think gives some people some hesitation to learn more. And so, I don't know,
(45:52):
I think maybe it's, again, something we can laugh at, but also something we should be aware of
if we're getting sucked into something. Yeah, look, it's fundamental. Like, I feel like
it's just weird because everybody wants to find a neat way to package it up and understand like
what's going on but fundamentally it's just people relating to one another and i i actually
(46:17):
really appreciate the the thing that g referenced about what happened in society like in the 70s
people kind of like leaving the normal life to go be in communes and then you know a bunch of
these things turn into cults and you know it's just like this is humans trying to find the right
(46:38):
way to live and humans trying to interact with one another and understand if they're aligned or
not. I think Bitcoin does a fabulous job of like doing that in both directions, like pulling people
together and also dividing people. And we see it all the time where you get a bunch of people who
are just 99% aligned, but they're ripping each other's like, you know, they're ripping each other
(47:04):
apart over the 1% where they differ on these things. So it's just a, it's like a challenging,
um, human experience fundamentally, uh, to shift your framework of the world.
And at the same time, I really do think we are at an unusually crazy time these last five years,
(47:27):
as far as the world shifting dramatically and challenging that worldview. So I think that
That catalyzes a more extreme manifestation of that as far as, you know, all the people that go along with the narrative or go along with what they're told and all the people that are like, what the fuck? No, I'm going this other way. And Bitcoin's right in the heart of all that.
(47:52):
And so it's just, I think this is just the nature of whatever vector people would be sort of like choosing the fork in the road based on.
But boy, Bitcoin really illuminates that or really heightens that.
And that's why this is just constantly people feeling good and coming together.
(48:13):
And then people realizing, wait a minute, you think what?
And then like attacking one another.
And I don't know.
I don't think it's really that's cult behavior as much as it's just fundamental human behavior.
Yeah, I like those comments.
23 Skidoo, I see you had your hand up and then put it down.
Did you have something?
(48:33):
Otherwise, I can go to...
Sure, I'll jump in.
Thanks.
Yeah, I think I would change, and I don't mean to change the title of your show, but in my mind, I would change the question to a more relative one.
And that would be, is Bitcoin a tribe or tribalism?
Because cult has to do with leaders in control and behavior patterns that are synonymous and related and kind of a cousin to it all.
(49:01):
But it is more a question of a tribe.
And like with all things, human beings, due to biological and evolutionary history, are tribal creatures.
And as TC mentioned with the sports teams with all of these things right down to the waving of the flag in the nation states These are all tribal behaviors and they have benefits Having a tribe is a good thing but it only a good thing in so far as people are consciously
(49:30):
aware of their behavior patterns and how they're acting.
I had a time on a space where I questioned one of those fundamental kind of premises of Bitcoin.
It was something about like that whole thing that the use of energy is a marker of human happiness or something like that.
(49:51):
I questioned something on there and immediately just had people screaming at me.
But then as soon as someone who I won't name a name, someone who is respected in the Bitcoin space,
You know, one of the people like a Tomer or, you know, one of these writers and thinkers actually agreed with me while everyone was screaming.
(50:14):
All of a sudden, everybody backed off.
Everybody backed off and just put their tail between their legs and went silent because, you know, one of the people in the tribe had spoken.
So watch out for tribal behavior.
You know, I like those comments and I can kick it around here because we do have some hands.
But we are looking for a new producer to the show, so I don't have to do it by myself.
(50:38):
And I'm nominating 23 Skidoo since he would change the name of the space.
Arguably, I'm being bombastic with my...
Thanks, thanks.
No, but it is funny.
Like, you do these spaces and you're like, hey, we want people in here.
So let's talk about something or name the space something crazy to get people in.
Hopefully it did the job.
But tomorrow will be about tribalism.
(51:01):
Pubby, you had your hand up.
Go ahead.
Yeah, something both GS sort of touched upon in 23 Skidoo. 23 Skidoo talked about the cults usually have a leader in control. And maybe the question should be, what kind of cult is this world? And from what GS talked about questioning, hey, you know, I got to look at this moon landing thing.
the term cult usually refers to a very small sect.
(51:25):
And I'm always thinking now the NPC meme, like what is the true cult out there?
Who just believes anything being told by people that control their lives?
Absolutely.
You see?
So when you're looking back, and here's the hard part,
it's when you start in Bitcoin and you understand you've been lied to about the economy
(51:46):
and how they devalue the currency, which is your life work.
Okay?
Now you've got to go.
Here's where you've got to ask the hard questions.
If they lied about this, what else did they lie about?
This is where you're going down.
Well, damn, how did we get into this war?
Well, did we land on the moon?
Okay?
What about 9-11?
(52:07):
What is thermite?
How did Building 7 come down?
It's when you do that, man, you've got a choice at that point, man.
And you keep going or you say, you know what, fuck this, like in the Matrix.
Just give me the steak.
Make it medium rare.
I'm happy with life.
You guys are really trying to get me in trouble with the government.
I see what you're doing there.
It's fun.
(52:27):
G, did you have some comments that you wanted to make on this one?
And then we'll go to Neil after that.
Yeah, one of the guys mentioned earlier, I think it was TC,
about kind of like well about the sports teams thing and how tribalism people want to you know
(52:48):
belong to a group of people um yes that is in our nature inherently but a lot of it too i think um
a lot of it's man-made barriers so what's interesting about us being bitcoiners
and what I'm seeing here just in fiat world is, you know, we can agree on one thing, which
(53:14):
Bitcoin is money. If you look at the world we live in right now, we can't agree on a lot of
things. We could argue that we can talk to regular people and we won't come to an agreement
what money is so therefore we have nothing to work down from right so that creates these barriers
(53:39):
then you bring in these teams and these religions and these politics and they make you choose a side
so now now we have this this barrier here where it's like well i'm republican or i'm democrat
at and it creates this man-made thing between y'all where you can't see it you can't feel it
(54:00):
but it doesn't allow for collaboration um i don't know just something that touched on
that you know i've been seeing a lot of people um bring up a lot of these things you know like for
instance um talking about just faith in general just faith not even bringing up a religion
(54:23):
just faith do you have faith automatically most of the time you're gonna hear somebody i'm catholic
i'm christian i'm lutheran you know i'm jewish all these different types of religion right
um and that's like a barrier just right there and it's like whoa man we weren't even going
down that road i was just asking if you believe i'm not asking in what you believe in but you see
(54:46):
how we just automatically create these barriers and then it's like we're not even talking about
that and that's what i love about bitcoin is like we can talk about all these things but it's like
i'm just talking about bitcoin we're talking about the money but we can get into everything else it
bleeds into everything and people can wander off in that conversation but that's what i love about
(55:07):
bitcoin it's like we can talk and we get to a subject they're passionate about and we'll go
into it and they start wandering off to like uh you know a social issue and that's when i'll catch
and it's like oh you're wandering off you come back to the money let's get back to this root
cause and fix it uh so it's able to break a lot of these barriers and allow for all these talks
(55:27):
and collaboration um that's why we're pushing in well that's why we live in the renaissance 2.0
renaissance 1.0 they had gold so they were able to agree on gold and they made these beautiful
monoliths and you know these um giant structures all this stuff beautiful paintings uh and that's
(55:49):
what i think we're experiencing right now just because we can all come to an agreement on one
thing actually bitcoin is bitcoin let me let me just tack on to that real quick because i hear a
lot of very intense debate over like bitcoin is money no bitcoin is the database and this is kind
of like a very heated thing that's going on lately. What's really cool about Bitcoin and
(56:14):
what makes it so different from some of these other ways that people become organized or
grouped together is that Bitcoin doesn't care what you call it or what you think about
it. You can run it. You can use it. And in so doing, you yourself know exactly what it
(56:35):
is, regardless of what anyone else says. And that is so unique. I think a lot of things people rely
on experts or authorities to tell them, you know, religion is one of those things that people
gather together and you look at the person in the front of the room telling you how to think about
(56:57):
this stuff. And Bitcoin inverts all of that because it puts it all back to you as an individual.
you can go and download the software, you can run it, you can create wallets, you can do transactions,
you can mine, you can do all these things yourself. It doesn't require anyone else to describe it to
(57:18):
you, doesn't require anyone else to agree with you about your perspective on it. The protocol is what
we share, and in using it, you're abiding by the same rule set as everyone else who's using it,
And that is powerful as far as connecting people and aligning people on a very specific angle.
(57:40):
And it just, at that point, all that other discussion over the top is just discussion.
And it's kind of outside of the real thing.
So I think that's actually a kind of a cautionary thing.
I like to tell myself even is like, you know, stop.
It really doesn't matter if somebody says it wrong or has a different way of expressing it or even believes some idea that is conflicting with an idea that I have. It doesn't matter. What's really cool is that the protocol is the signal. That is where you can basically cut through all of that.
(58:18):
And so use it. Use Bitcoin directly. And that's the source of truth. And that's the thing that just doesn't even require you to express it in a certain way or define things in a certain way or any of that.
Yeah, I appreciate that. Did want to see if Neil, yeah, you still have something to say. And then maybe we can go to number here before we wrap up the show. Did want to hear from him as well.
(58:45):
uh yeah just real quick i just uh i can't remember who was saying uh talking about how like
kind of people are outsourcing their thinking you know like you just kind of you don't you don't
want to do the thinking yourself so you just kind of swallow what someone else said uh because you
you trust them or whatever and uh it's really interesting because it's like you can really tell
(59:06):
uh if someone is in is using their brain or not is like when you when you do say something that's
quote unquote wrong speak or like, you know, like this slaughtering of the sacred cows,
you know, like, and I've had, you know, me just kind of fresh into the space, you know,
I'm coming from it from my angle. I'm looking at the surface level analysis of the economics
(59:28):
and this like idea that the money appears broken, the money's broken. And it's like,
I understand why people latch onto that. And I can understand why it's a partial truth from that
surface level analysis. And I'm saying, hey, you know, from my, you know, when I'm getting at the
philosophical roots here, and we consider money as a whole and what it is, you know, it's like,
it's not broken, because it's a tool, because it forms the bonds of our social connections. And it's,
(59:52):
you know, being used to control, extract and enslave. So we really shouldn't conceptualize
it as money is broken, because you know, that forfeits the moral high ground and blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah. And it's like, I get attacked, you know, and I can tell instantly when discussing
these, you know, uh, ideas with people, whether or not they're literally just, they just swallowed
this thing and they can't even entertain the fact that it, there's more to it or that it's wrong.
(01:00:19):
And it's like, I, I feel, I feel bad for these people because, uh, like they don't actually,
I don't think they understand, you know, if you're not using your own brain to kind of validate
reality yourself, like you're going to walk off a cliff eventually, you're going to hit reality,
you're going to walk into something and you could get hurt. So it's like, always have your head on
(01:00:42):
the swivel, always be validating stuff for yourself. Think about it. And if you can't,
like, if you can't defend your own beliefs, your own conceptions or ideas, then it's like, that's,
it's kind of a different, like the flip side of the like fiat world. Like it's just kind of,
I don't know. I just I'm just always advocating for, you know, we want to talk about our monetary sovereignty.
(01:01:05):
You know, it's like, well, you're a ration. Take your rational sovereignty, too.
You know, like, I don't know. I just want to add that.
You're just too into the fiat system, Neil. You just don't understand.
Just kidding. OK, number did want to get to you. How are you doing this morning?
I think we live in a comforting version of reality.
(01:01:30):
One where chaos is not really shown and the system works as it should, but Bitcoin just completely destroys that.
Yeah, thanks for that.
Let's see, we have Puncher.
Puncher, did you have any comments?
(01:01:51):
I know you kind of joined late, but we were just talking about,
we were kind of laughing at each other ourselves,
talking about the Bitcoin cult or lack thereof, why it is a cult, why it's not.
And yeah, curious to hear if you had any thoughts on this topic.
Yeah. I mean, it's the only cult that,
I question everyone, slay your heroes and all your preconceptions.
(01:02:16):
So, you know, I do tend to think that it's more of it's tribal in nature, not cultish in nature.
There are no leaders, even though there are from time to time people we look up to inside the tribe.
But, you know, I'm here for the separation.
It's a larger goal, right?
It's a common goal of the separation of money from the state.
(01:02:40):
But Bessent's comments don't bother me at all.
I don't believe that the United States
Won't be acquiring Bitcoin
That's foolish because their adversaries will
And Bitcoin is
Money for your enemies
But that's all great
I want the separation of money
Which is the root of all power
Which is the root of the power of the state
(01:03:00):
Separated from the state
And I want decentralized money
So it's all good
But I enjoyed the conversation guys
And thanks very much
And just a shameless plug
We're going to have Jeff Booth on Bitcoin today
tomorrow at nine o'clock. So a lot of these questions, you know, Jeff's been on a lot of
podcasts, but he hasn't been on spaces. So we'll open up and have plenty of time for questions if
(01:03:22):
you want to listen in, because there's a lot going on. And I'm sure a lot of people would
like to ask him those questions. Yeah, thanks for that. And yeah, Bitcoin today does run at 1130
Eastern each weekday and always a good time. I think those guys are pretty funny. I would,
I don't know. I try to be funny, but my jokes are more dad jokes.
(01:03:44):
And I'm not as in command of the soundboard as Lauren is.
Somebody's got to confiscate that soundboard. That's for Dan.
I'm putting a, I'm putting a bounty out on that soundboard.
Yeah. I did introduce him to the soundboard. He just uses it better than I do.
So, but guys, this has been fun.
I hope if you were a listener that you enjoyed today,
(01:04:06):
I hope you've enjoyed this week.
We haven't gotten into any news topics.
We'll try to keep that going tomorrow.
We'll see what kind of crazy name of a space I can come up with and drag you guys in here again.
But we do do this each weekday at 10 a.m. Eastern.
Would love it if you'd continue to join us.
We're just having fun, making fun of ourselves, kicking around these topics, hopefully making you think and challenge some of your biases.
(01:04:33):
And so also helping you relate to other people as you talk to people about Bitcoin.
And they're trying to figure out what this bright orange future is.
So that's a wrap. Do want to thank everybody. Follow everybody who is up here today on the stage speaking.
Thanks to all the new speakers. Thanks to all of those who listen each and every day.
(01:04:55):
And you know what? I'm going to give BFP a warning, even though he dropped down.
CIA crickets
Matrix birds
Yeah I love it when you guys try to get me in trouble
But that's all we have for today
Want to wish you a wonderful Thursday
And remember
As always please do not shitcoin
It's just not
(01:05:21):
Smart
It's not good for you
Don't do it
Fiat currency as a store of value.
We call them we poor.
We call them we poor.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.