Winner Takes All Ep. 275

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Thank you.

(00:30):
All right, good morning, everybody, and welcome to Bitcoin Veterans Spaces number 275,
where we talk about Bitcoin bears and lettuce hands.
Just kidding.
We talk about Bitcoin.

(00:51):
My name is Bob Van Kirk.
I'll be your host this morning, and I'm joined once again by our co-host, Texas Toast.
Thank you, Producer Eric, for helping remind me what day it is, the last day of September.
And we will get on with the time chain in just a second, but did want to say good morning to everybody.
Thank you for joining in if you're a listener.

(01:12):
Thank you to Neil and Pubby and BFP for joining us as well.
All right, let's take a look at it.
Today is the last day of September and marks the last day of the third quarter.
In fact, it is Tuesday, September 30th, 2025, and it looks like we are at Bitcoin block height number 917,078 with the Bitcoin price at $113,375 and rising, which means you can still pick up 882 sats for each U.S. dollar.

(01:50):
Awesome.
Let's get to a couple of announcements this morning.
as we've been talking about.
We'd love to see you guys join us in Nashville on November 10th and 11th.
We are having a party.
It's the Bitcoin Veterans Second Annual Summit,
and we would love to see you there.
First day is going to be the conference day,

(02:11):
and then we will move on to the second day,
and that will be a range day,
so you'll be able to try out some firearms.
It should be a blast.
please visit bitcoinveterans.org forward slash summit 2025.
If you're interested in being a speaker or sponsoring, you can do that as well.
I'll throw that up in the nest in a little bit.

(02:33):
And as a reminder to everybody here, we do appreciate you.
If you'd like to come up and speak or argue with us,
please hit that little microphone button in the bottom left.
If you're too shy, you can use the purple pill in the bottom right to send us your comments, questions, snide remarks, and funny Bitcoin memes.

(02:56):
All right, now that I'm done with that, want to go around the horn, say good morning to everybody.
Texas Toast, my friend, how are you this morning?
Good morning.
Yeah, friendly reminder, self-custody.
Because if you had Bitcoin and FTX, you're getting about $30K for every one Bitcoin.

(03:19):
So congratulations.
Hope you learned your lesson.
I had some buddies myself that got caught up in that.
I got lucky and listened to guys like Bob and Pubby and Neil.
I think it was actually Pubby was in that crew that I listened to back in the day that helped me get out of that.

(03:39):
off the exchanges, you know, right before FTX and Celsius and all that stuff.
So thank you, Pubby, and thank you all.
Yes, good reminder for sure.
And we actually did have some AC through in a comment to the BV handle about, I guess,

(04:02):
someone lost their life savings.
And so we could talk a little bit about that this morning.
But yeah, crazy
Seeing people get
Fractions of Bitcoin back
From FTX
Neil
How are you today? Let's do a mic check
I'm doing good
Hopefully you got me

(04:23):
You sound great man
Bobby, how about you?
How's it going today?
Oh man, good morning
Thanks Texas for the kind words
You'll find us in the space
The simple message of
of Bitcoin only and self-custody will get you far.
And, yeah, people did lose a lot between FTX and Celsius

(04:44):
and even with all coins and rugs.
And it's sad, man.
You see the stories that would come out of, you know,
the guy that, you know, was at a down payment on the house
that's going to surprise the wife.
Everything is gone.
That just tears at you.
You don't have a heart if that doesn't bother you.
And that's why a lot of people do what they do here, man.

(05:05):
it's not to make money but to save people from losing a lot.
So, yeah, thanks again, Texas.
And, yeah, Bob, as always, thanks for running this space, man.
Yeah, it's a great reminder, and thanks for that, Pubby.
I do think it's good to, yeah, remind us all, like, why we're doing this.
It's fun to hang out, chat about all the nonsense that's going on in the world.

(05:28):
But we do want to help people, and so hopefully we're doing that for you.
If you guys do need additional help that's pertinent to your situation or you're confused about something,
do reach out to the people on stage.
We wouldn't let them up here unless we trusted them.
Sometimes we get a knucklehead, but for the most part, people you see up here every day are a trusted resource.

(05:51):
And you can also visit BitcoinVeterans.org, throw your information in there.
We'll get you plugged into helpful resources as well.
BFP, always good to have you, sir.
How's it going this morning?
Hi, Bob. Good to be here.
Puppy, you actually had the first spaces, which turned me on to spaces,

(06:12):
and the first signal, other than podcasts.
That was where the books and podcasts were where I got my signal from.
But then when I heard your spaces, I was like,
this guy's Bitcoin only? This is a cool space.
And then somehow I got blocked.
I don't know if it was an algorithm.
them so i lost that one source of spaces and other than that it was bitcoin morning which you guys

(06:37):
kind of replaced because they quit doing it so there's there's very little signal out here so
when you find it stick with it yeah uh pubby has been at it a long time and always outspoken
and well-spoken so we do appreciate folks like him that can come in and help us out

(06:58):
Wanted to do a mic check for producer Eric, last but not least.
How are you doing this morning, sir?
I'm doing well.
I hope I'm coming in okay.
Man, the gain is awesome on that one.
You have that fine tune.
Thank you for playing that beautiful music this morning

(07:18):
and coming through loud and clear on your own handle.
So good stuff.
Well, I do want to kick this one off, guys, with, I mean,
we could go a lot of places. There's some, strangely enough, things come up kind of last
minute. Maybe we should talk about self-custody. And, you know, I think just to spell it out for

(07:40):
people, especially if you're a little bit newer, would love to get AC up here. I see him down there
if he's able to speak. But, you know, scams happen all the time. And I think these things
kind of flow together. So maybe into the FTX news, I can just explain a little bit what tends to
happen when you have your Bitcoin on an exchange that goes belly up.

(08:05):
Essentially what they do is, and feel free to chime in anybody else,
but essentially what happens is when an exchange goes insolvent,
I mean, there's a lot of ways it could happen.
You know, some are just rug pulls where they were just a scam up front,
but others were trying to basically make money off of other people's crypto.

(08:30):
And what tends to happen is the bankruptcy courts really do –
it's really the attorneys, I'll say, that do a great job on these things.
They get most of the value out of these bankruptcies.
And what happens is they lock in the price on the day that the bankruptcy is filed.

(08:52):
So the defunct company does a petition with the courts, with the federal courts, and says, hey, we don't have enough money to send out to all of our, all the people that had money on our exchange.
And what they do is they lock in the price of the asset on that day.
And so maybe you want to chime in on this Texas toast, but essentially the petition day price for FTX was, it sounds like around $30,000.

(09:22):
I haven't looked into it too much.
But now we have, you know, fast forward all these years later and payouts are happening and things like that.
Well, FTX, the bankruptcy estate for FTX, only owes people the value, the dollar value of Bitcoin at that time.

(09:45):
And so here we are, you know, end of the third quarter, 2025, people are starting to get the ability to withdraw some of their Bitcoin.
And what's happening is they're getting it locked in at that price of $30,000.
and here we are sitting right around $113,000.
So sure, you think you're getting your Bitcoin back,

(10:09):
but if you had one Bitcoin sitting on that exchange,
you're only getting $30,000 worth of value today,
so you'll never get back that one Bitcoin.
Feel free to chime in anywhere else here, guys.
And I do want to touch on this cookie,
Bitcoin cookie that was put in the nest by AC as well.

(10:29):
as just another good reminder for all of us as to why we do push that on this show
and in other spaces to self-custody.
So anybody can jump in here, but we'd love to hear people's thoughts on this.
BFP, you got your hand up first. Go ahead, sir.
Yeah, I was just going to say it also screws up your confidence

(10:50):
because I was in the Mt. Gox exchange because I always had this notion
that if you want to learn about something, buy a little.
So when I was trading stocks, I would just buy a small amount worth,
and then I would start paying attention to it a lot more.
So I bought $100 worth of the Bitcoin back when I was buying it

(11:15):
almost to affirm my notion that it was a scam.
And then I lost it in the Mt. Gox, one of the first exchange,
If not, the government took it down and I just dismissed it as I lost $100.
And then I didn't pay attention to Bitcoin until like 2017.

(11:36):
And when it was going up, I'm like, why is this still alive?
And then I started trading it on Coinbase like it was a stock.
But that was a good, hard lesson.
And not super hard, but it was, you know, really cemented that exchange.
One Bitcoin is one Bitcoin unless you have a promissory note from an exchange.

(12:06):
Yeah, anybody else want to chime in here?
I was going to say, get yellow in here.
I mean, you guys want to go back to the Wayback Machine if you're new here.
You can just look up Mt. Gox and everything they went through, and they finally, years later, started getting some pullback or callback, however you want to say.
I would only mention this if you are new here.

(12:29):
And, yes, you're going to hear everyone talk about self-custody and are you a true Bitcoin or not self-custodying yet.
Listen, take your time, all right?
This is a marathon at your own speed.
Do not outkick your coverage.
Do not do things you're just not comfortable with yet.
But the fact that you're understanding what Bitcoin represents and you're holding it on exchange for now, that's fine.

(12:51):
You know, most of you'll be fine.
Do the research and reach out to anyone on here that, you know, we don't have all the answers many times, but I can point you to someone else that will.
But the point is this.
Don't let anyone sort of pressure you into – there's a lot of tech here, a lot of tech that is easy for some.

(13:13):
Others, it takes time. Just do what you're comfortable with.
I would just offer that up. As important as it is, go take baby steps, man.
Yeah, good advice. And I do think there are so many different ways to to accomplish this.
I think, you know, you can get philosophical about it, but there's just a lot of reasons to self custody.

(13:40):
I mean, this is the first time where we can actually hold on to a bearer asset and not have to rely upon a third party, you know, for something that's digital.
And so it's pretty cool.
Once you figure it out, it's outstanding.
It's this empowering thing.

(14:02):
AC, hope you can chime in here, too.
Wanted to just touch on what was in the nest there that you put up there.
Maybe you can share this story with the listeners and just give kind of an overview.
I didn't get a chance yet to plug in those transaction IDs into my node to see what has all occurred here.

(14:24):
But it seems like some sort of link or phishing attempt was perpetrated here and Bitcoin was stolen.
Are you with us this morning, AC?
Yeah, Bob, I'm here.
How do you have me?
Perfect.
Perfect.
So, yeah.

(14:44):
So, you know, there's a lot going on with this.
And I think some of it was a little bit of misinformation and not faulting cookie because I know it's a highly emotional situation to have something like this happen to you.
But I will say that after kind of looking at his original post, there was some blame or some shade thrown towards Ledger.

(15:09):
And there was a couple typos that really confused a lot of people.
But basically, he's working on developing a game, and he got a DM or an email about an interview.
And during that process, he had installed some software.
And if you've paid attention to what we've been talking about here and you've listened to the June Seth interviews with the social engineer, you would know that this is a big red flag.

(15:38):
But he installed some software that introduced some malware on his system And he had all of his his entire stack secured by a signing device
AKA a ledger.
And that's where some of the shade was thrown towards that ledger.
But big no,
no,
he also had a backup,

(15:59):
a digital backup of his seed words from his ledger in cloud storage.
And so the malware was able, most likely it was a key logger.
They were able to compromise.
I'm making some assumptions here because not all the information is out there, but a key logger was able to gain access to his Google account.

(16:22):
And his Google account was able, they were able to view his digital backup in cloud storage.
And in effect, they rug pulled his entire stack.
I went through some of the transaction IDs.
It looks like there were a couple consolidations and then it ran.

(16:42):
And then eventually it was joined by 50 other inputs at Binance.
And that's where you kind of lose track of where the Bitcoin is going.
There are probably people far more well-versed in chain analysis than me that can dig a little bit deeper.
Or as one of our other Bitcoin veterans by the initials of TW.

(17:03):
you, so I won't dox him. We'll say that, you know, if you have subpoena power from these centralized
institutions that you can continue to follow that. So that's kind of the long and short. Really,
this is just lessons learned for people who are listening. You know, we talk about air-gapped
self-custody a lot, and air-gapped means just that. Don't ever keep a digital backup. Don't

(17:25):
ever type your 12 or 24 words on an internet-connected device or a device that can ever
connect to the internet, be very wary of software and malware, never store your backups
on cloud, on cloud services. And if you're going to use cloud or if you're going to use something

(17:46):
like 2FA, definitely don't back those up to the cloud as well. So it's an extremely sad story.
Like I'd mentioned in some of the private chats, you know, we were just talking about Jimmy
a couple months ago had a very similar situation,
although slightly different.
And now we've got Cookie.
I don't try to make light of their situation

(18:08):
because I feel terrible.
It could have happened to any of us
early in our Bitcoin journey.
But really, this is an opportunity for Bitcoiners
to learn worse practices and what not to do.
And I'll land it there because I've been going for a while.
Thanks.
Yeah, I really appreciate that.
Go ahead, Texas.
Yeah, and there's a couple things.
I just read the initial post and what he wrote after.

(18:32):
And, you know, he was getting around to deleting the digital footprint.
Something to think about is once it's on the Internet, it is always on the Internet.
So he would have needed to really change his key entirely.
You know, once if you ever put anything on the Internet, just like a photo.
I mean, we teach this to our kids.

(18:53):
We grew up in this digital age, at least millennials.
Once it's out there, you have to assume it will be there forever.
So that wouldn't have even been really best practices just deleting it off of his Google Drive.
That is not the right way to go.
He would have needed to get a completely different key set and then transfer those funds to that new key set.

(19:18):
Also, these things are getting more and more sophisticated.
It never even, you know, we have Alexas, we have our phones always listening to us, giving us, you know, these these advertisements that we were talking to our wife about diapers.
And all of a sudden, 50 ads for diapers show up on on our front page of Amazon.

(19:41):
You know, these things are getting more sophisticated.
These hackers are looking for, especially as Bitcoin grows in value, they're going to be looking for greater and greater ways to steal your seeds.
And one of the ways is through your audio.
So you don't even really want to speak your key into existence.

(20:02):
And so, you know, there's ways to do this safely, securely, ironclad that it is impossible to get.
And, you know, it's not something to really be scared of, especially now that we have all these resources to to get those best practices, you know, locked down, you know, but just just think about what you're doing.

(20:26):
And if you don't know what you're doing, ask a trusted person that does, you know, a lot of these guys will be willing to help.
It's really simple kind of, you know, steps, but especially these military guys that have that have handled classified information and kind of understand, you know, how to keep a secret and how to keep things safe.

(20:52):
You know, I think these guys are some good resources to ask if you need help.
Yeah, I would echo that. And I think, you know, it is really crazy when you start looking at it.
A lot of people just say, well, we're listening to this.
You guys repeat yourself.
This will never happen to me.
But, I mean, I'll just tell you, like, you know, just being in sales, business development, basically for my entire career,

(21:15):
I get people reaching out to me all the time about collaborating on different things.
And even recently, and I was almost fooled by it.
And I'm not saying I don't know for sure, but you just got to ignore these things.
I had someone reach out to me and say, hey, you know, you're an expert in this area.
We'd really love to have you come on our podcast.

(21:36):
And it's like, that's nice.
I'm not interested.
I think ego plays into it sometimes in those things.
But, you know, maybe that's a real invite.
But to have somebody reach out completely unknown to me that wants to add me to a podcast episode, someone I can't really verify, you know, a fake website, maybe it's legit.

(22:02):
Again, these people are not your friends.
And I think TC said this last week pretty well, that you really can't be interacting with these people that are reaching out to you in a variety of methods, whether that's your work life or your personal email.

(22:23):
There's just it's like if you're reaching out to somebody, fine.
But, you know, the FBI won't call you.
Microsoft isn't calling you.
They're not going to email you.
They're not going to pop stuff up on your screen and tell you that, you know, you have a virus.
There's all these different ways.
You know, you're not going to be getting emails from certain people asking you, you know, to do things or that you've been recognized or any of these things.

(22:51):
Go ahead, Texas.
yeah and i mean you know it gets it gets me back as i hear more and more of these stories over the
years and and you know i've i've messed up some uh and had to redo some of my um you know cold
storage practices and you kind of you kind of reiterate um some of these things and build on

(23:15):
as you go. And it kind of enforces in my mind that, you know, we say Bitcoin's for anyone,
not everyone, you know, and it's kind of the same thing in my mind for self-custody. It's like,
if you aren't ready for this or don't have the competency, you have to build on it. You have to

(23:39):
work at it. You have to understand it. You have to actually dig and learn about this. They did not
jump in, you know, head first into the shallow end before you understand what you're doing.
And so, you know, especially for our older generation and, and, uh, you know, some of

(24:01):
these people that aren't native to the internet in the way that, uh, the younger generation is
and some of these younger generations that are almost naive in the same way the older generations are about some of the dangers of the Internet.
You know, it's kind of your job as somebody that does understand these things to walk them along and make sure that they don't hurt themselves in this process.

(24:31):
Because it is scary. It is a technology.
But you have to learn it. You have to work at it.
It's not just a, all right, I got, I'm scared the exchanges are going to go down.
I got to get into self custody now and do it today and right this second.
It's like, no, we have to, you have to learn about these things.
You can do it in incremental steps and we can diversify your, um, the way that you hold

(24:57):
Bitcoin so that, you know, even if you think everything is good and you, you've got, you,
You've got it ironclad locked down.
You know what?
Maybe it might be a good idea to have a little bit in some of these other custody methods.
I've kind of done a full circle in that.
You know, I came out the gate after FTX at Celsius and went cold storage, Bitcoin only.

(25:22):
Like, obviously, it's still Bitcoin only, but like cold storage and everybody should do that.
And I was I've been pretty militant on on that aspect of it.
But kind of as as things have gone on, I understand that not everybody is me.
Not everybody has the same aptitudes and capabilities.
It's like we're all different. We're all equal in the eyes of God.

(25:45):
But that doesn't make everybody the same the same.
So there's different solutions for different people.
And you just got to do what's comfortable.
And if you want to go that route of full self custody and use the best practices, it's going to take some learning.
It's going to take, you know, a lot of a lot of YouTube videos of BTC sessions and a lot of talking with guys on spaces of of just kind of like, OK, what what do you use?

(26:13):
How do you how do you do it? What do you think about this?
Wicked's another great guy that I learned from about self-custody and just kind of learning about these hardware devices and how Bitcoin works.
So, yeah, those are those are my general thoughts on it.
But and kind of the evolution of my thought process as being somebody that was that was militant on self-custody.

(26:35):
But now it's kind of taking a step back and said, hey, you know, for different people, you know, there might be different solutions.
Yeah, great comments.
Probably wanted to hear from you.
oh yeah i was gonna say when you first get in the worst word i think we ever use here is this term
wallet and you know you know i'm in my young 50s here other people that are older the assumption is

(26:58):
oh i have it in a wallet or so my no it's not physically on your phone okay that's one you
gotta wrap your head around that but start with small amounts man you know five ten bucks of
bitcoin and i'll tell you what the first one is sort of the first time you ever send you know a
transaction it's like out in the ether you know it's like throwing a homing pigeon up into the

(27:19):
up into the sky and you're hoping it's going to come down somewhere you don't know when it's going
to hit but then all of a sudden when you see it there it's like man this is fucking magic
but yeah when you when you can delete your wallet and you just got your your little private key and
you type it back in and all of a sudden there it is again again it feels like magic and but just
you gotta practice it use very small amounts you'll get comfortable with it but yeah when the

(27:43):
amounts get higher. Yeah. The pucker factor is always there. You're not alone. You're not alone.
Everyone's had to go through it. Yeah. I do think it's one of the dangers, which is that, you know,
Bitcoin for right now is the best store of value on earth. And as proven out since it's come into
an existence, but people, you know, when they go to self custody, then say, well, hey, I don't need

(28:09):
to transact with this thing so they don't know how to do it right and so that's why i think
you're right pubby that there always is this like gut-wrenching concern by by people who don't
transact in it every day uh that that man when i send this i'm gonna make a mistake with it just
because you're not doing it all the time you don't have that muscle memory so uh did want to go to

(28:30):
bfp maybe i stole your thunder there brother but go ahead yeah that's that's why i do uh i do
transact with it a little bit like i'll i've tipped a starbucks uh employee with it you know
in conversations i have a wallet uh wallet that just sits with small amounts but you do have to

(28:52):
play with it and you do have to get uh familiar with the um signing devices but the reason i uh
raise my hand he mentioned wallets it's such a bad term and i heard a while ago on spaces
one spaces some guy who i can't remember the name so i can't give him credit but the words

(29:13):
are the wallet and that that stuck with me i'm like that is such good phraseology or
terminology whatever you would call it the words are the wallet these are all just signing devices
hot, cold, doesn't matter.
You think of those words as your wallet
because that's the cryptography.
That's the big secret, like TC says.

(29:35):
It's a secret.
Create it in a sacred way
and keep it in a sanctified area
set apart from everything.
Go ahead, Tex.
Sorry, just real quick.
I've lost Bitcoin.
I think almost everybody
that has played with this network and this technology enough has lost some Bitcoin one

(30:00):
way or another, whether they, you know, lost their seed, whether they sent it to the wrong
address, whether they, you know, paid a ridiculous high fee.
I consider that a loss for when they didn't need to.
You know, almost everybody that interacts with this, especially at the early stages,

(30:24):
kind of goes through this.
So you want to make sure it's small amounts
and you're kind of like,
you're just building upon your knowledge
of the network and of the technology.
Yeah, and these are all good reminders.
Go ahead, Pubby.
Oh, I was going to say,
and I believe it was Samurai Wallet
was the first one that actually,

(30:46):
their wallet was the first one
not only had BTC,
but they actually would price in Satoshis
because I remember first time
trying to send some. It's like I'm counting zeros. I'm like, what the hell?
Point zero, zero, zero, zero.
And then finally when it got to, you could display in stats, it made it a lot easier.
All right, I'm just going to send a thousand stats between each.

(31:08):
It made it a lot easier. But that's, I think what I'm pointing out is how far
the tech has come and where we're going.
Every year gets a little bit easier once you get involved here.
Yeah it so true I actually just chime in here with something fun I been working on So I run a variety of Bitcoin nodes just to play around And I been vibe coding here and there when I have time and trying to build

(31:35):
basically a dashboard that could bring in a bunch of different wallets.
So like if you have wallets and not to go over people's heads,
but if you have say two different and I'm trying to rearrange the stage here.
So sorry, I got people requesting, which is great.

(31:56):
But basically, like, if you think about it, like, a lot of the wallet software is designed so that you would only have, you know, maybe one wallet or your wallets are segregated, which is great.
But what happens if you wanted to see all the information from multiple wallets and display that like UTXOs over time or, you know, price over time or sats over time or all of these different maybe different views that you could see?

(32:25):
And, you know, these are just things that I think, you know, as Pabby's laying out, like we've come a long way where at first it was ones and zeros.
then we went to BIP39 and you just have to have 12 words.
Like I think what we're seeing is just this maturation and different things

(32:46):
will come out, different tools to make these things easier.
So as much as we say right now, like, Hey,
take your time and chill out and make sure you know what you're doing.
Hopefully these tools that come out will get easier as,
as time goes on and people will build things that,
that will make it far simpler for you to do this in a safe way.
Go ahead, BFP.
yeah i agree with that and the terminology is important too because when people drop the utxo

(33:13):
it spins these newbies heads you know that's an unspent transaction output and uh when i first
heard that or kept hearing it on podcast i had to look it up that's satoshis that's just a fancy
word for saying sats or fractions of a bitcoin and these things uh the terminology is so important

(33:36):
to just figure it out but the the thing i was also wanting to touch on is bip 85 i just learned
about this and you can like have child this is getting in a little bit of the weeds but you were
talking about multiple wallets you can have a child wallet that you basically on a cold car you

(33:57):
can go in there and set up a wallet your you know you have your master wallet and then you can set
up another wallet that is derived from that wallet and you have a whole nother seed phrase
12 words your wallet and it's backed up by that master seed phrase but it also acts as a standalone

(34:18):
because I played around with it and entered my child seed phrase into a wallet to like, you know,
restore it, pretending I lost my seed phrase because I wanted to see if you needed the master to do it.
And sure enough, it popped up. So FIP85, that's one to check out.

(34:39):
You can definitely get in the weeds with that.
yeah thanks for bringing that up it is uh maybe a little more technical for people but i do think
that these are definitely uh bitcoin improvement proposals that have been enacted that that people
should check out uh huddle huddle did you have uh welcome to the stage by the way thanks for coming

(35:03):
up and did you have any comments here yes sir um i'm generally the oldest person in the room
most places I go just because I refuse to get old.
But one of the things I'm noticing with a lot of my contemporaries
is if you're not updating your phone every two years,

(35:24):
I think it's a misconception that your phone works great.
I don't need a new phone.
And if you're not comfortable buying a $1,200 phone,
then maybe you need a downgrade.
But I think everybody over 50 ought to be buying a new phone every two years because there's so many nuances.
Just the way the screen, the touch, the feel, the way you move things, the way you swipe, the way you do things changes so much over time.

(35:52):
And the apps adapt and do different things that it confuses people as they go, you know, from a two-year-old phone to a four-year-old phone is a lot different.
and they see a lot of different things that just come about.
And I think it's important to try to make that connection to the technology,
especially if you're not good with it, that like most of my friends are,

(36:17):
to really try to get them to understand to update those phones and those computers every few years
just so they're kind of getting the touch and feel of those things.
And that's it.
Yeah, I think that's a really great comment. People using old technology, whether it's a phone or otherwise deprecated technology, a lot of times will have bugs in it.

(36:42):
I think we're coming up here in about 14 days. Microsoft is no longer going to provide updates for Windows 10 operating systems.
And so if you're not using a Mac or Windows 11, you, after October 14th, could be susceptible to, you know, I would say attacks because they're not going to be patching the holes, the security flaws in Windows 10 software any longer.

(37:11):
And so these are just things like I think it's a really good, simple thing to tell people that they should be considering upgrading their devices because it's running, you know, the well, it's better.
Right. They should get better performance.
But it's also running a lot of the security patches that are needed for all of the threat vectors that are out there.

(37:36):
Go ahead, Poby.
No, I like I like that.
But when we're talking about especially older folks that don't come in here,
and most people, when they walk into a house, they want to flip a switch and see electricity, right?
Turn on the light.
That's what they want.
You'll come in spaces where they want a key to the car.
They want to, you know, turn it and drive, you know, turn the ignition switch and drive.

(37:59):
They come in these spaces, and you've got mechanics breaking down every individual component that makes a car run,
and that can get a bit daunting.
But it's going to take time.
And sometimes it is a generational thing for those that remember back when you were helping your grandparents figure out what an email was.
You know, they're still writing handwritten letters there and sending them out.

(38:20):
And it's going to take time.
A lot of the a lot of the quote unquote nerves that have been, you know, they're really into the tech stuff.
They're already here. A lot of that.
So, yeah, the focus is going to be this next wave of people that come in.
They say, all right, this Bitcoin stuff is interesting.
I see it as a fantastic store of value.
Now what? You better make it easy on me. And that's what they want. People want ease.

(38:42):
It's true. But it is radical responsibility, right? So I think there's kind of both sides.
One thing I'll say just personally. So I'm fortunate enough to have three of my grandparents still around.
And my 86 year old grandmother switched a few years ago to sending these e-cards.
And I'm going to be honest with you. I miss I miss it. I miss the real card in the mail.

(39:07):
I don't know. It's just one of those things where you're just used to it, and then all of a sudden you get this e-card with music and animated images, and you're just like, I don't want to watch this crap.
The animations suck. I don't like the music, and I just want that card that I can look at, enjoy for a few seconds, and then maybe toss away.

(39:30):
Anyway, totally off topic. Did want to reset the room here. I think we've been going for a while on this topic. Do love it.
and hope that you guys have learned something here this morning.
But I want to remind you guys to please do share the space.
We'd love to get this out to as many people as possible.
And if you'd like to come up, do hit the microphone.
But again, if you're not following most of us up here,

(39:51):
or at least myself and the Bitcoin Veterans handle,
we probably won't approve you just because every once in a while
we do get those fun people that like to do nasty things on our spaces.
So a little leery if I don't know you.
But all that being said, let's take a look.
I did want to mention you guys probably saw that President Trump is addressing the senior military officials that they've gathered all in Virginia today, which we touched on last week.

(40:23):
Kind of an interesting.
Well, I'll be curious to see what the outcome of this is.
But it is pretty crazy that they have all of these guys summoned from all over the world and they put them all into one place.
We don't need to go too deep into this, but I do think we'd just like to kind of circle back on this real quick if anybody has thoughts.

(40:43):
Plenty of other topics we can talk about this morning, but it's something going on right now and thought we should maybe touch on.
So does anybody have any follow-up thoughts on that?
Yeah, it seems like theater.
Theater to me, that's all.
They wouldn't tell everyone it was happening if it was a secret mission.
You know, they're doing something to create a hub of blue.

(41:10):
Yeah, I think it can be multiple things at once.
It can be theater to just, you know, kind of scare our adversaries and say, oh, they're getting ready to do something.
Or it could also mean that we are getting ready to do something.
Uh, we just had the, uh, nuclear deals and talks with Iran basically completely fall out.

(41:32):
Um, so, you know, that war is don't, you know, it's almost like everybody forgot about Iran
and Israel going at each other and our involvement in that.
Um, you know, that is heating back up again.
I think it could be having something to do with that.
It could be something to do with the new push in Ukraine.
I mean, it could be any number of things. The Iran thing and the fact that now their only option to peace in their eyes is developing a nuclear weapon and dropping out of the nuclear not proliferation treaty and signaling that they actually do have a weapon that to me, that's kind of foremost on my mind with all of this.

(42:17):
But, yeah, it's a lot of theater for sure. It's that. But, you know, we are in interesting times. We're in a fourth turning. There's usually wars during that. And, you know, just kind of buckle up.
Yeah, I would only add, you know, this is a chance to level set.

(42:40):
Like I said, I've been working in some capacity with the military for over 30 years now.
And this is a chance, you know, you've got all these all these generals across many AORs, you know,
different areas of responsibilities around the world. And this is back to focus.
And just remember, they changed they changed the name back from, you know, the Department of Defense.
Now it's Department of War, which is a much more aggressive sounding thing.

(43:05):
And Trump, you know, he's back. He still lives, I think, in a World War Two era. You know, this is this is this is his idea of American military power. And I think it's a way to, hey, we're going to bring in all these generals, all these admirals and refocus on what the military means, what it means to me as your commander in chief.

(43:26):
I'm getting rid of all this woke DIA bullshit out of the military now.
OK, we're going to have standards that that young men and women can can meet.
And I think it's just a chance to refocus it.
Again, I don't think there's a big overarching declaring war.
But, yeah, many times it is. Here's the hotspots we have going on.

(43:50):
This is what's going on with, you know, this new proposal for Gaza.
Here's what's going on from me being over and talking to the U.N. and what's going on with Ukraine and Russia.
So I think it's just like I say, just bring everyone back into a room, level set, and here's what we're doing moving forward.

(44:11):
Yeah, I do think it's interesting, you know, that, as you guys say, theater from that standpoint, obviously they're broadcasting the speech live.
I do wonder what's happening behind closed doors, though.
So I think I'll agree with Texas Toast that there's probably multiple things going on here.
And it'll be interesting to see definitely what's going on.

(44:33):
We don't have to spend too much time on that one.
I just know it's going on now.
And we had touched on it in the past, so maybe a good follow-up.
But I did want to play this clip that happened on CNBC this morning.
And maybe we can riff off that for the next 15 minutes or so.
So, you know, this comes up a lot, guys, especially with gold hitting new all-time highs.

(44:54):
We see banks, central banks all over the world shifting away from U.S. Treasuries and going into non-sovereign assets like gold and silver.
And I think eventually we will see Bitcoin.
But on CNBC this morning, the let's see, a gentleman from Coinbase, John D'Agostino, had I think a pretty decent clip.

(45:22):
He was on for maybe about a little over seven minutes.
We're just going to listen to about, I don't know, I think it's like 40 something seconds of this.
So not even a minute. So I'm going to cue that up.
I didn't. It happened right before we went live this morning.
So I didn't get that over to producer Eric to do.

(45:42):
So I'm going to play that. And so give me one second here.
Hopefully this comes through. Now, if you go back three, five, seven years, there's no question which is which is the better asset to own.
But here's here's the rub. Here's here's the crazy part.
You don't have to choose. Right. This isn't a who's the goat, Jordan or LeBron conversation.
Bitcoin has characteristics.

(46:03):
Gold doesn't.
It's programmable.
It's digital.
It's infinitely scalable in terms of movement.
Easy to move.
You don't have to lug gold across borders.
Most importantly, I would argue, it produces yield, where gold has a negative cost of carry.
So if you're one of the people who are genuinely concerned that global money supply grows like 7%, 8% a year, and that's excessive,

(46:26):
If you believe that's excessive and that's causing inflation, then you need assets that will beat that.
Louder for those in the back.
I hope you guys took something from that.
But, you know, I can think of a few things.
Obviously, he's comparing here gold versus Bitcoin and saying you don't really have to choose.

(46:49):
But I do think that it will become more abundantly clear in the future.
And one of the things that I really took out of that one was just his talk of money supply here at the end of the clip.
And I think that these are things where you know he describing this And this is on I don know I think back to like how far we come again like Pubby was saying like from the tech perspective but like just having guys like this going on the most watched um financial program in the world and talking about like Hey if you have a concern that global money supply being at increasing at

(47:38):
a rate of eight to 9% per year.
If you see that as like unsustainable and as a problem, you should probably consider
Bitcoin.
And so I just think, man, it's almost like waking up to a dream for me.
Like it's really strange to watch it.
It's almost like it's a movie and it doesn't make any sense because people have to take

(48:00):
this in and have to start taking this seriously.
And I think he does a good job of laying it out there.
I'll stop there and let Pubby chime in.
Yeah, you know, one of the things you brought up there, which is interesting to me, and it's in your title here about winner takes all.
And, you know, this is one of the things you come into this.
This isn't either gold or either Bitcoin or anything you have in your life as far as you have your pension, you have your retirement.

(48:29):
This isn't where sell everything, mortgage a house, and everything's 100% Bitcoin.
You've got to do some research and look at the history.
I mean, it's got 16 years of history behind it now.
Everyone's going to have a different percentage.
They think they want to allot to this thing, this new technology.
Maybe it's just 1% of everything, 2% or 5%.

(48:49):
Of course, you're going to come into Bitcoin and have these bases like this,
and you're going to get the Puritans like, you should have everything in here.
No, it doesn't work like that.
Okay, so do your research.
People, some are more comfortable with the traditional gold, depending on their age,
how they are towards retirement with Bitcoin.
But for 16 years and you look at it at these returns over those years as a store of value, it's pretty damn impressive.

(49:15):
OK, and now and people are going to have different amounts they want to put towards that.
But don't feel that when you come into this thing that it is all or nothing.
It's not necessarily winner takes all here. You got to do what's comfortable for you.
Yeah, good points. Go ahead, Texas.
Hey, who was that speaking?
That is I can't remember his title. He's at Coinbase.

(49:35):
It's John D'Agostino.
Okay, well, perfect.
You know, that is a perfect, I love that clip because it's so good.
It's like you get the Bitcoiner talking points at the beginning.
It sounds awesome.
And then the snake starts coming out and he starts talking about yield.

(49:58):
And he's, you know, it has a yield and here's my product to get the yield.
And this is why you need to have your Bitcoin and Coinbase so you can earn a yield.
And I can siphon money off of it.
And it's just like this blood sucking venom that I hear in his voice when he starts talking about that.

(50:18):
It's this Wall Street and Bitcoiner merge where they're just grifting so hard off of the Bitcoiners out there.
And so many people are going to fall for it.
And it's like that first half of the clip was perfect.
That's all.
Bitcoin is this amazing thing that you, you know, that that will help you in your your

(50:40):
currency debasement and your monetary future.
But you got to be real careful with these freaking snake oil salesmen that are trying
to wrap you into their system and not just get you on the Bitcoin system.
So, yeah, the yield stuff.
As soon as people start talking about yield, red flags should be going off in your head and you should be thinking, how is this person trying to take my Bitcoin?

(51:05):
So just always remember that.
Yeah, I think that's a really good point.
And I did, you know, I do think people take it different ways, especially in light of what's going on today with FTX and those things, you know, people getting paid out.
It's that reminder.
I didn't take it so much as that.
But I agree with you.

(51:28):
I'm not arguing with you.
I think that this is a really good point, though, that we could probably spend an entire space talking about in the differences of Bitcoin versus gold.
Because you have, as he was saying, there's this built-in cost of carry for gold that you don't necessarily have with Bitcoin, especially if you're holding it in self-custody.

(51:49):
So, yeah, I do think different people could take that different ways.
But I did appreciate your comments there.
BFP, I think you were first, and then let's get to Neil.
Yeah, I just wanted to say I heard a woman do a stand-up thing about how she and her husband and her family were all in Bitcoin.

(52:12):
And this is way before 2021 when I, you know, went in full bore.
But it was at like a financial bloggers conference or a pod con or something in Vegas.
And I just thought to myself, what in this lady's crazy?
Like, is she insane being all in on such a speculative asset?

(52:37):
But now I get it because I've done the research and I did the homework and now I don't have any other substantial.
I'm 95% or 99% in myself because I've always been that way.
If I see something like Apple back in the day, I put all the stock, all my Roth IRA in that.

(53:03):
So if you see something and you have done the research and you really pile in and educating yourself about it, I don't see a problem.
But I like what you guys are saying.
You definitely should allot what you feel is sleepable.
You've got to be able to sleep at night.
So 1%, 10%, 50%, and gold is not going to hurt you.

(53:26):
It's just not going to outperform Bitcoin.
Yeah, great comments.
And I do think, you know, what's going to happen is you're going to get uncomfortable at some point.
Right. So let's say you put in 20 percent or 10 percent or 5 percent.
Eventually, if it keeps performing like it has been, which I can see some major upside still,

(53:46):
it's going to become a bigger and bigger portion of your overall net worth.
And at some point you will be uncomfortable and you will have to figure out how to do self-custody.
And you will have to understand some of these things.
I'm going to let Neil go, though.
Go ahead, sir.
Yeah, I just was thinking, you know, kind of tying this back to the very beginning and like getting your Bitcoin off exchanges like you have gold and, you know, you try to get it off the exchange.

(54:15):
You know, it's just like you're in this you're in this complete position where you're just trusting them again.
And, you know, like there's all like with the London people, they're trying to withdraw their gold and, oh, it'll take six to eight weeks and da, da, da, da, da.
It's like it's because you don't have it.
You know, I don't think people appreciate how every block, you know, you go check out, you know, TC's time calendar.

(54:40):
Amazing thing.
Like every time the block hits, you are validating your holdings.
You can, you know, fire up your node, look at the addresses yourself.
You see that it's there.
Like that is such an amazing thing.
Like the gold doesn't get validated.
It's all trust and all the stupid derivative stuff that people, the games that people play with it.

(55:02):
Like it's ridiculous.
You know, what would it take to, you know, to validate, you know, 22 tons of gold that's on an exchange?
You get your little electro mass spectrometer out and you're going to like scan it all.
Like that doesn't happen.
You know, that it just it's it's ridiculous.
So even if you think like, oh, I don't trust the debasement.

(55:24):
You know, I don't trust the monetary expansion.
I'm going to go move myself in the gold.
It's like, well, you're kind of still in the same pool.
Like as far as what are you trusting?
Who are you trusting?
And, you know, that's what is so beautiful about Bitcoin is it just it removes the trust from the system.
That's what Satoshi solved for.

(55:45):
That's what he said he identified as the problem.
And that's what he does. You know, he engineered a system to solve for that problem.
And it's like, yeah, that doesn't remove trust from our interpersonal relationships.
You know, going back to like, you know, if my parents or whatever are trying to get into it, they don't, you know, don't have the knowledge.
They don't have all this stuff. It's like I'll help them out and we can have trust between ourselves.

(56:08):
And I'll, you know, take some of that workload to help them, you know, establish a solution for how they want to hold their stuff.
But, you know, like where there's a will, there's a way.
And I think just getting people to Bitcoin, getting people to understand that, hey, we really shouldn't be trusting the government.
Like that's that's probably a good position to push off from.

(56:31):
So I don't know. I just thought it was interesting.
It all comes back together.
It's good stuff. And I really, you know, one of the topics I wanted to get to today,
knowing that at midnight, if they don't have some sort of reconciliation or a bill on the table,
that the government's going to be shut down.
I was thinking to myself this morning, maybe one of the good topics today would be,
would it really be such a terrible thing if the government shut down?

(56:53):
But I wanted to get to Texas toast on this, so go ahead, sir.
Yeah, and with the trust of gold and, like, the centralization that is required in that gold system,
it's like you think about how we had a convertibility gold window.
we were holding all of Europe's gold so that we could get on the Bretton Woods system.

(57:15):
And the French had to send a battleship and the military to come get their gold back
because you're sure as hell that we weren't going to ship it over for them.
And we were going to have to pry it out of our hands to get it back.
And then after they did, we closed it to everybody else.

(57:35):
So it's like, you know, there's a lesson there that once it's in these systems, they don't want it to leave.
They build their whole system around it not leaving, and they're making money off of keeping it.
So you just got to think about that when you're centralizing your Bitcoin on these exchanges as well.

(57:57):
yeah i was gonna say if if you loan someone 20 20 that's his problem he owes you 20 dollars
but if you loan someone a million dollars what becomes your problem getting it back from them
so true go ahead jimmy thanks for coming up sir yeah good morning no you just kind of hit a nerve

(58:21):
there when somebody said you don't trust the government and i laughed at myself because i
I've realized this this last year, how many Americans still do.
The funny thing is, when I moved to Mexico years ago, 30 years ago,
I said the big difference between Mexico and America is Mexicans know their government's corrupt,
they know their police are corrupt, and they know their news is propaganda.
Americans are just discovering this, and many haven't.

(58:43):
That's what blows me away.
Most Latin American countries, most countries I know other than America,
they don't trust their governments.
They don't think their neighbor is the problem.
They know the government's the problem or the cartel or the politicians or the police.
But, yeah, this is something that's really bizarre that that's why people aren't waking up in America quite so quick.
They don't they believe the government is there to help them and take care of them.

(59:06):
I haven't believed that most of my life.
So it's kind of weird to see that and realize that's that's a hard thing for people to break through because they really is boomers.
They're just like, what do you mean? I don't trust the government.
I'm like, you still do. And like, well, yeah, whoa, that's where my sisters are.
They believe the government is right.
They tell them what medicines to put in their body, what food to eat, all of it.

(59:26):
They will follow them right to their grave.
I'm sorry to say there's a lot of people in the world like that.
Well, it's almost like, Jimmy, you know, my family's been in this country a long since the founding.
And it's almost like you're not even a real American if you do trust the government.
It's like I see a lot of people that do trust them.

(59:47):
and it's like do you not know what we are or like oh you're obviously like new here or something
like you you trust these people um that's kind of antithetical to to america in itself so
yeah i love it yeah so go ahead i was just gonna say i was in rural california during the

(01:00:09):
shutdown when it first started i went to my property up there where i have a gold mine and
a thousand acres to bite out on. But the neighborhood around me was fantastic. They
definitely don't trust their government. They're mostly Republican. They're conservatives. And they
just plain and simple don't trust it. And even though they're pro-Trump, they're not like
trusting Trump. They just think it's a better option. But they're real people. And there's a

(01:00:29):
lot of them still in America, but they're not speaking up and they're not talking as much.
And I think that's going to have to happen. I think it's time for people. And there are more.
I just saw a girl the other day put up a post saying, you know, I'm not this way, but I wore
a freedom shirt and people were nice and then they were assholes to me and now i'm going to wear it
all the time because she goes this is bullshit that people are mad at me because i believe in
freedom but yeah that's that's where a lot of americans are really protesting for slavery

(01:00:54):
in favor of it they don't get it they don't see what they're saying but you know this is the
problem it's really this this split media this split country is a bitch because i see it just
falling apart and then the religion war is coming and i mean it's just it's crazy it's like the
divisions happened in America. So yeah, I hope that, you know,
the good old Americans,
especially the veterans start speaking up because I guarantee you they're not

(01:01:15):
going to go along with slavery.
Yeah. I feel like, again,
these topics that we've been touching on today really could fill up an entire
space. And so we'll,
we'll mark these down and keep, keep going at these,
picking at this stuff. I think these are, these are great topics,
but we are at the end of the hour and do want to respect people's time,

(01:01:39):
including my own, because I have to get some stuff done.
But guys, we do this every weekday, 10 a.m. Eastern.
We'll be back at it tomorrow, Wednesday, the first day of October.
Did want to once again thank Huddle Huddle for coming up,
new speaker to the space, and great advice on updating your devices.
Also wanted to thank all the other speakers that are up here every day

(01:02:01):
hanging out with us.
Thanks, AC, for bringing us that story about the unfortunate thing with Cookie.
And, yeah, we hope everybody who listens takes away at least a few nuggets of truth each morning,
and it helps you on your Bitcoin journey.
That's it, though, guys.
I want to wish you guys all a wonderful Tuesday.

(01:02:23):
And once again, remind you that it's never okay to shitcoin.
it's like sitting at the cool table in the cafeteria at a mental hospital
that use fiat currency as a store of value we call them we core we call them we core