October 31, 2025 • 54 mins
We sit down with "therapist to the millennials" Tess Brigham to unpack why the 20s feel overwhelming, how parents can ease anxiety without enabling, and what healthy support looks like in a world of constant comparison and blurred work boundaries.
We also share a step‑by‑step plan for tapering financial help and end with three clear takeaways to guide tough conversations.
• why questions beat lectures when adult kids call in crisis
• social media’s role in comparison, urgency and the “by 30” myth
• money stress, pandemic shifts and the gig economy
• boundaries at work, after‑hours expectations and burnout
• individuation, values and reworking family narratives
• mother‑daughter friction and being seen without defensiveness
• tapering financial support with timelines and transparency
• three takeaways: coach, contextualise, accept
Huge thanks to Connie Gorant Fisher, our audio engineer.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:05):
If you've got a kid where you're really, I'm really
enabling them and I'm solvingall their problems for them,
that's where you want to stopsolving your problems and
simply, when you get on thephone with them, ask them
questions.
Which is they're calling you andsaying, Oh my god, I don't know
what to do, a pipe broke in myhouse, and I don't know, should
I call a plumber?
Do I call the landlord?
(00:25):
What do I do?
That's a moment where you wantto say, Well, what, huh?
What do you think you should do?
What makes the most sense foryou right now?
And coach them through solvingthe problem on their own.
That's one thing that I see is Isee a lot of parents wanting to,
you know, wanting to do itdifferently maybe than how their
relationship with their ownparents and they want to have
this close relationship withtheir kids, and then they
(00:46):
realize, like, oh my god, I mykid's 25 and they're calling me
all day, every day, asking meabout everything.
And so those are the moments oftime where you want to start to
be a bit more strategic andthink, okay, I need to get them
to solve their own problem.
And so that requires you to justask questions.
Just questions, no statements.
SPEAKER_04 (01:13):
Hello everyone, I'm Denise Gorin.
Welcome to Bite Your Tongue thePodcast.
Thanks for joining us as wespeak with experts, authors,
parents, and even young adultsto explore the transition from
parenting our young children tobuilding healthy relationships
with our now adults.
Hopefully we'll grow together,learn about ourselves, our young
(01:34):
adults, and of course, when tobite our tongues.
We are so happy you're with us.
So let's get started.
Hello everyone and welcome toanother episode of Bite Your
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(01:55):
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(02:15):
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Now let's get on to thisepisode.
Well, today we're thrilled towelcome Tess Bringham, a
(02:58):
licensed psychotherapist, lifecoach, and former 20-something.
In fact, if you look at herwebsite, you'll learn a lot
about her 20-somethings.
Or her 20-something years, Ishould say.
But anyway, in a recent articlefrom CNBC, Tess says, over a
decade ago, when I first becamea therapist, I never expected
that five years later mypractice would consist of nearly
(03:20):
90% millennials, and the rest ofmy patients being the parents of
millennials.
So hey, listeners, she's gotboth sides of the story covered
for us.
Tess has been featured in majormedia throughout the U.S., from
the New York Times to OMagazine.
So we're pretty excited to haveher today.
I think it's going to be reallygreat, Ellen.
What do you say?
SPEAKER_03 (03:40):
Oh, I totally think this is going to be great.
She's going to give us thatinside scoop on what she's
hearing from our kids, themillennial generation.
And maybe through this we canunderstand a bit more about them
and even more importantly, wherewe might offer some compassion
and support and even some uhmental health assistance for us
as we're dealing with them andthey're dealing with us, I have
(04:03):
to say.
SPEAKER_04 (04:04):
You're telling me, and and Ellen, maybe we ought to
all be discussing that with ournew bite-your-tongue mug over a
cup of coffee, right?
Oh, I can't wait to get mine.
SPEAKER_03 (04:13):
Yes.
Absolutely.
Anyway, go ahead.
So, Tess, uh, is it okay if wecall you Tess?
Oh, yeah, of course.
Well, we'd love to know a bitmore about you and how you
became a therapist with apractice of mostly millennials.
SPEAKER_00 (04:26):
Well, so yeah, I mean, Denise mentions this.
My website talks about my own20-something years because my
own 20-something years were fullof, you know, what am I doing
with my life and what does itall mean?
And I had my own quarter lifecrisis when I was 27.
And I didn't really know Iworked in my big dream when it
(04:46):
growing up was to work in filmHollywood.
Um, and that's what I worked forthroughout my entire life,
through high school and college.
I was a film major and I, youknow, spent my summers like
interning at I spent an entiresummer interning at Columbia
Pictures for free.
And then I interned at WarnerBrothers, and I, you know, this
(05:08):
was my dream.
And when I was 24, I went off toLA and to fulfill my dream.
And by 27, I was depressed andexhausted and lost and confused.
And and that's when I had thisquarter life crisis, and I ended
up leaving LA, coming back tothe Bay Area, which is where I'm
(05:29):
from, and having to sort ofstart all over again in some
ways.
And that's when I finallydecided that I wanted to be uh a
therapist.
That was the thing that Ienjoyed the most about working.
I used to work with actors, andthat's what I enjoyed the most
was just being able to be, youknow, listen to their problems,
hear what they have to say.
I thought I was pretty good atthat part.
(05:50):
And then about 10 years ago, Iopened up, um, after I got
licensed and all that, I openedup a practice in downtown San
Francisco, not really knowingwho was going to show up.
And what happened was that abunch of 25, 26, 27-year-olds
showed up.
And I was like, oh, wait asecond.
I remember these years.
I remember how lost and confusedI was because it had been over a
(06:11):
decade since I went through allof that.
I was like, oh wow, you know,being a young adult in the world
today, there are some thingsthat I could really relate to
with my clients that I couldunderstand.
Because I also spent a goodchunk of my, you know,
20-something years in SanFrancisco and in LA.
And I and I understood what itwas like to be in the city and
and to deal with sort of theday-to-day part.
(06:34):
But as I was talking to them, Irealized there was this whole
other aspect of life that I hadno idea about that I didn't have
to deal with, which was theinternet, social media, um, and
and really, you know, thepressures that having
information at your fingertipscreate, uh, the pressure of
keeping up with the Joneses andhaving to, you know, having
(06:55):
friends who are getting engagedand, you know, promoting
themselves and all of this onsome social media platform or
another, and that constantlybeing in your face.
And so that's when I, you know,I really started to study this
generation.
How are millennials different?
What is their experience likefrom myself?
(07:16):
I mean, I'm in my late 40s, soI'm a Gen Zier.
I mean, Gen Gen Xer, sorry.
And I um, so I really started totry to understand them.
Like, what is it about thisgeneration and what is it that
they're experiencing that noother generation has ever
experienced before?
And so that's where it reallycame from.
And then inevitably, what wouldhappen is parents would call me
(07:38):
because they see that I workwith 20-somethings.
So they they'd call me upbecause they were lost and
confused as well on what do I doabout my kid?
And that's when I started towork with them as well.
SPEAKER_04 (07:49):
Um, I know this episode, we want to get into the
top five or more concerns yousee in your practice, but I want
to ask a couple questions first.
I listened to your video, so yousay all this and I'm getting it.
Why are the 20-somethings sohard?
Have they always been so hard?
And also even the adult parentrelationship.
I think more and more of ourfriends, we're in our 60s, are
(08:11):
talking about how to, you know,build that healthy relationship
with our adult children.
So you did a whole video on whyyoung adulthood is so hard.
Can you sort of sum that up forus?
SPEAKER_00 (08:22):
Sure.
So it's hard because you'retrying to do two things at once
and they both inform each other,and you're really flying by the
seat of your pants.
So, on one hand, you are tryingto figure out who you are, what
you want, what life's all about.
How are you gonna be in theworld?
What are you gonna value andbelieve in, right?
(08:44):
Because up until this point,your values and beliefs and how
you see the world has beenheavily influenced by your
parents and how you lived andhow you grew up.
And when you're out on your own,this is your opportunity to say,
like, oh, is work, you know, doI want to make my career my
entire life?
Do I want to sacrifice, youknow, all these things over
here, vacations and fun and allof that for my career?
(09:08):
Like making those big decisionsaround who you are and what you
value.
And at the same time, you'retrying to figure out what kind
of work do I want to do?
What kind of relationship do Iwant to be in?
Do I want to be in arelationship?
You know, how do I be in ahealthy relationship?
Do I want to get married?
Do I want to have kids?
Like, where am I going to live?
You know, what all of these bigquestions.
(09:28):
And the thing is, is that it'sthrough understanding yourself
and your values and what youbelieve in that informs the kind
of jobs that you pick and theand the um relationships that
you have in the city that youlive in.
But also your experiences atyour jobs and your relationships
in the cities that you live in,that actually also informs your
(09:48):
values and what you believe in.
So you're you're sort of walkinginto this thing a bit, you have
a sense of who you are already,but you're walking into this and
you're like, okay, I have tofigure all of these things out.
And so the thing is that you'reyou're constantly like in a job
and you're like, oh, wait aminute, it's not quite this job,
and this is going to inform myvalues over here.
And so my values are gonnachange a little bit, okay, and
(10:10):
that's gonna change the job Ihave, right?
And so this is what you see withyoung people.
There's a lot of moving aroundin jobs and cities and
relationships because it's thisconstant trying to figure it
out.
And the problem is that there'ssomewhere along the way, there
was this myth that was createdthat said that you have to
figure all this out by 30.
That's what I was gonna say.
Are they rushing it?
(10:31):
Right.
Exactly, exactly.
Yes.
And and that's the part that'sreally tricky is that this is
where the social media stuffcomes into play.
Because when I was younger and Iwas looking around at my
friends, you know, we were alldriving crappy cards and we were
all broke and we were, you know,all sort of flailing around.
There wasn't this thing that wasattached, you know, we all have
(10:52):
our phones attached to our handsnow.
And there wasn't this app that Icould go to where I could scroll
through and see people my age infabulous cars, taking fabulous
vacations, you know, doing allof this stuff that constantly,
you know, is this reminder ofI'm failing in some way, I'm
behind in some way.
Um, and I think we did, westarted creating these things 30
(11:14):
under 30 and these lists and allof that that made 30 this weird
cutoff point.
And I think that for a lot ofyoung people, they really see
that as, oh, I'm an adult now.
If I'm over 30, I'm officially,you know, old, or I have to uh I
have to figure it all out.
And everybody's worst fear is ifI don't figure out these things
now, I'm gonna wake up at 50 andbe miserable.
(11:36):
So I gotta figure this out now.
SPEAKER_03 (11:37):
Can I just tell you, hearing you say this, that a
person at my age, I don't knowif Denise is feeling this too,
is it's not that different.
Like the things that you'resaying that 20-somethings have
to negotiate are the same sortof things that 60-something year
olds have to negotiate, which iswhat's my role in the world
(11:58):
right now?
I'm not doing the same things Iused to do.
I'm not a parent as my primarysort of relationship.
And many 60-year-olds arechanging their jobs, leaving
their jobs, and trying to figureout what the next stage of their
life is.
And this is different for thisgeneration, I think, because 50
(12:18):
years ago, if you reached theage of 62, you really were kind
of looking at the end of yourlife, and now that's not the way
it is at all.
We're sort of expected to alsohave another part of our life
that is productive andgenerative.
And it's just interestinghearing you talk about this, how
similar the process is for bothsides.
SPEAKER_04 (12:40):
But I want to say, I'm gonna add to that, Ellen.
I think some of that's true, butI think the difference is when
you're in your 20s, you do havethis fear, sort of like Tess
said, if you don't do it now,you're gonna be a failure.
And I think we've accomplishedwhat we probably are, you know,
our greatest accomplishments upto 62, 63, maybe Hillary Clinton
(13:00):
75, and running for president orwhatever.
And I always say, God, she canrun for president.
I can't even, you know, tie myshoes sometimes.
Um, you know, we have all thosesame comparisons going on, but I
think there's a lot of fear inyour 20s of not taking the right
steps, and then that's the wholerest of your life's gonna be a
failure.
SPEAKER_03 (13:17):
Absolutely.
And I do think that we gave themthis impression that somehow
this is, you know, my my littlebone to pick with just how we,
and I'm putting myself in there,and the education system sort of
make every child think thatthey're going to grow up to be a
leader when really only very fewpeople can be leaders.
And so I think we we have setthat generation up for feeling
(13:40):
exactly like they do.
SPEAKER_00 (13:41):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Well, and the other thing I wasgonna say about you know, the
difference between 20 and 60 isthat you have, I often say there
are things about aging that Idon't love, right?
There's a lot of them.
But one of the nicer thingsabout getting older is you have
the wisdom of time, right?
You have the wisdom ofexperience.
And that's what a lot of times Ithink is parents, especially
(14:03):
they forget, which is your kidsnever done this before.
They they don't know if they'regonna be okay.
You know you're gonna be okaybecause you've faced these
questions before.
You've gotten through it, youknow that you can always bounce
back, you know you've been downand you figured it out.
But when you're 25 and you'releaving a job that has defined
(14:24):
you, and you don't know ifyou're ever gonna find something
else.
You don't know if you leave thisrelationship, if there's gonna
be someone else around thecorner.
So that's the part that's reallyhard when you're young.
You just don't, you can't reallytrust that things are gonna, you
know, you're gonna figure thingsout because you haven't had time
to trust.
(14:45):
And that's one of the biggestthings that I see is this this
my clients really struggle witha lot of anxiety.
And that anxiety is coming fromthis fear of, right, things
aren't gonna work out for me, orI'm gonna make a mistake along
the way, or or I'm gonna failand everything's gonna fall
apart.
And the answer to that is alwaysyou have to trust.
(15:08):
You have to trust that you willfigure it out.
And it's incredibly difficult ifyou have no uh background in it.
SPEAKER_04 (15:14):
So, so what's our role as parents when we know
that our kids are feeling a lotof this, making these big
decisions, and we're saying, Didyou get a job?
Are you dating anyone?
You know, all of that.
How can we temper that and yetstill feel like we're uh being
supportive?
And, you know, there's lots ofsituations I can look back on,
(15:36):
not in my direct family, where Isaw parents of my parents'
generation not being firm withtheir kids, enabling them
through their whole lives, youknow, that sort of thing.
So we want to be supportive, butnot enabling.
What role can we play inlessening this anxiety without,
you know, doing too much?
SPEAKER_00 (15:53):
Yeah, and I think it's so hard.
And it's always, I always tellpeople so much of this is a
case-by-case basis, really basedon your kid, right?
You know, based on your kid andyour relationship with your kid
and how they are and how they'vebeen throughout their lives.
But in terms of what you can do,I I think that a lot of it is
doing less of the asking, youknow, asking those kinds of
(16:16):
questions, like, did you meetsomeone?
Where, you know, what's going onwith your career, and asking
more open-ended questions abouthow, you know, how are you
feeling?
How are things going?
I think also a lot of timesthere's a lot of value, and we
can do it especially on text,there's a lot of value in just
texting your kid and saying, youknow, I see you doing these
(16:37):
things, I'm so proud of you, orI see things are really
difficult for you, just want tolet you know I'm thinking about
you.
Because kids always want to, nomatter who you are, what your
background is.
Like kids need their parents'approval, you know, no matter
how what your relationship iswith your your parents.
And that is that's a very DNAgenetic right piece because we
(16:59):
need our parents for survival.
We always have, and so we needtheir approval for survival.
And so your kids are alwayslooking for your, you know, your
approval, your the stamp that Iam doing okay, I am living up to
what you what you want and whatI want for myself.
And so I think that you cancheer that part on versus
(17:21):
getting into the nitty-gritty ofwork and love and right, because
we get very stuck in this placeof if I have uh a great job
where I get paid a lot and I dothese things, if I'm in a
marriage and and I have kids orI have a home or whatever these
other trappings are, like if Ihave all that, those things are
(17:41):
gonna make me happy.
And in actuality, they may ormay not, right?
Right?
Like you want to celebrate theirhappiness.
We've all learned that.
Yeah, but they haven't.
And so they're trying to yourkids are trying to figure that
out for themselves.
And I think also just tellingthem, I mean, I think I think
there's a lot of value.
(18:02):
I think there's a lot of valuein leaders being vulnerable, and
I think there's a lot of valuein parents being vulnerable as
well, in terms of telling them,like, hey, this thing happened
to me and this is what happened,and I fell down and I failed,
and then, you know, I figured itout, I picked myself back up.
Giving your kids less of thelectures of what you feel like
(18:23):
they should be doing, and a bitmore of this is who I, this is
my life experience, this is whoI am.
And I have faith and belief thatyou too will figure it out.
If you've got a kid where you'rereally, you know, you feel like
I'm I'm in really enabling themand I'm solving all their
problems for them, that's apoint where I would say that's
(18:45):
where you want to stop, stopsolving their problems and
simply, you know, when you geton the phone with them, ask them
questions.
Which is, you know, if they'recalling you and saying, oh my
God, I don't know what to do,you know, a pipe broke in my
house, and I don't know, shouldI call a plumber?
Do I call the landlord?
What do I do?
That's a moment where you wantto say, Well, what, huh?
What do you think you should do?
(19:06):
Like, what makes the most sensefor you right now?
And coach them through solvingthe problem on their own.
Because that's one thing that Isee is I see a lot of parents
wanting to, you know, wanting todo it differently maybe than how
their relationship with theirown parents and they want to
have this close relationshipwith their kids.
And then they realize, like, ohmy God, I my kid's 25 and
(19:27):
they're calling me all day,every day, asking me about
everything.
And so those are the moments intime where you want to start to
be a bit more strategic andthink, okay, I need to get them
to solve their own problems.
And so that requires you to justask questions.
Just questions, no statements.
SPEAKER_03 (19:43):
Yeah, do you find that with this generation it
tends more towards the callingtoo much as opposed to the
calling too little?
SPEAKER_04 (19:52):
Not my kids, but go ahead, Tess.
I was going to say, yeah, whatabout the ones who don't call
enough?
Yeah, I don't know.
Do you have boys?
No, I have a girl and a boy, andactually, my boy is he he would
call more.
But my daughter is very busy.
I mean, she's a resident, butstill, he's much more a talker.
SPEAKER_00 (20:09):
Yeah, I mean, it's funny because usually
gender-wise, what I've seen isthat usually the the girls are
the ones that are callingconstantly and the boys not so
much.
Again, I think it's therelationship that you have with
your parents that you have withthem that really determines how
much they're calling or notcalling.
But ask your question again.
(20:29):
I'm sorry, I got what was youroriginal question?
SPEAKER_03 (20:32):
Oh, I think I just said you you answered it, I
think, which is what about doyou do you find that in this
generation it's more they'rethey're wanting their parents
too much as opposed to toolittle?
And what do we do about the oneswho want too little?
I have one of each, so yeah, butit but it's different.
It it involves different sortsof approaches either way.
SPEAKER_00 (20:50):
Yeah.
I mean, listen, I I only haveone child, so I don't know what
it's like to parent multiplechildren, but I think, right?
It's just my assumption is thatyou you parent each child the
way in which they need it,right?
And so it sounds like yourdaughter needs a little bit.
Maybe it sounds like she's got alot going on, she's got a lot on
her plate.
It's not that she's not thinkingof you and doesn't care about
(21:10):
you.
It's just that, you know, whenshe finally has a half hour to
herself, she wants to zone outand watch Netflix.
SPEAKER_04 (21:17):
Well, and I was and I was that like that way as a
young adult.
I mean, I had to call once aweek and I sort of dreaded that
call.
I was very close to my parents.
I'm not sure why I dreaded it.
I'm still trying to figure thatout.
I think it was sort of what yousaid before.
You always want your parents'approval.
You know, was I doing thingsthat were good enough?
Was I pleasing them?
And when you're on the phonewith them, you feel that more
(21:37):
because you're attached, youknow what I mean?
You're you're thinking about itmore.
I think it's important the wayyou handle those calls, and
we've discussed that a littlebit.
But let's get to some of thesethings.
You say the number one concernthat millennials have is money.
And as I look at inflation andreal estate prices and all that
sort of thing, I don't know whatI would be feeling as an
emerging adult today.
(21:59):
So what are they feeling?
How can we be supportive?
You know, that sort of thing.
That's a pretty tough situationto be in right now.
SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
It is, it really is.
And I I I will say I wrote thatarticle before the pandemic, and
the pandemic has changed thingsa little bit.
They're even more worried,right?
Or not?
Yes and no.
It's been interesting, and maybethis this might be more of a Gen
Z thing because my I started offworking with millennials.
My millennials are gettingolder.
So this new generation comingup, I have a lot of Gen Z
clients as well.
(22:27):
And so with the what changedwith the pandemic was there were
a lot of young people who hadjobs that they weren't making a
lot of money, and then they gotfired and laid off.
And then, you know, thegovernment was giving out like a
thousand dollars a week.
And right, we were they werethere was suddenly they were
like, oh my God, I'm making moremoney now being unemployed than
I ever did working all the time.
(22:47):
And a lot of them, right, reallysaved that money.
And then there was these thestipends that we were getting,
right?
And because they're not working,so they get the full benefit of
the stipend, you know, they getthe full amount.
A lot of them moved back homewith their parents and they
didn't have as many expenses.
And so what I'm seeing is thisinteresting thing of kids who
the young ones who reallypandemic was very difficult, but
(23:10):
financially they walked awaywith a lot of money, and their
parents are really anxiousbecause they're not really doing
anything now.
SPEAKER_04 (23:16):
Interesting.
So that's a real catch.
That's a real catch 22.
I would be pretty frustrated ifmy kid wasn't working and just
depending on that kind of thing.
But I found some of those kidsthat got those whatever, because
stipends and stuff spent them.
I mean, my husband was playinggolf one day, and the guy he was
playing with was a tattooartist.
And the tattoo artist said hecan tell every time a stimulus
(23:37):
check went out, there were linesat the tattoo parlor.
SPEAKER_02 (23:41):
Well, that'll tell you something about the well, it
was supposed to be a stimulus.
I mean, that's exactly right.
It did what it was supposed todo, but but I don't think I
don't think tattoos were whatthey did.
SPEAKER_04 (23:51):
I think they were hoping there was a line at the
grocery store, but um exactly.
And I know how needed that was.
I'm not getting into a politicalconversation.
Parent to do now, the kids stillliving at home.
I I'm just gonna say something.
I just had an interview withthese two young, they're
actually comedians in Brooklyn.
They have a podcast called OKStupid.
And we titled the episode OkayStupid and What Other Things
(24:12):
Your Your Kids Say About You.
Um, but one of the things theysaid in the interview was that
all their friends are onantidepressants.
And yet they feel like they'remaking all the right choices in
their lives.
They're doing things reallydifferent from their parents.
So I'm thinking, uh, and theytalked a lot about their friends
living at home and all that sortof thing.
So I'm wrapping up a lot ofthings in one.
(24:33):
But what's going on here?
SPEAKER_00 (24:35):
A couple different things.
I mean, one is that, you know,the the relationship that people
have, the younger generations,to mental health is very, very
different, right?
Okay.
For the first time, and I mean,I think the pandemic, one of the
things of the pandemic that Ithink has been a positive is I
think we're finally talkingabout mental health.
We're finally talking about theum, you know, that we've created
(24:58):
a society in a world wheretechnology is great, technology
has helped us tremendously.
And imagine the pandemic withouttechnology, it would have been a
mess, right?
To keep it going.
I couldn't have been able tokeep my business going.
Nobody would have.
Yeah.
And so it's really positive.
But the flip side of it is, andwhat we forget is that the
expectations that we have onyoung people in the workplace
(25:21):
today is radically different.
So, you know, my first job outof college, I worked 9 30 to 5
30.
And when 5 30 hit, we lock thedoors, we turn off the lights,
we lock the doors, and we left.
And my boss had no way ofgetting a hold of me unless she
called me at home and I pickedup.
But what's happening now withmillennials and now Gen Zers is
(25:43):
that when technology hit, it waslike a free-for-all.
Like people were workingnon-stop, especially here in the
San Francisco Bay Area where wehave Silicon Valley.
Almost everywhere.
Yeah.
And and so what was happening,and I saw this with my clients,
I was like, God, there's no youyourself at age 25, 26, you have
to figure out your ownboundaries.
Like there are no boundaries.
(26:04):
The the blinds are reallyblurry.
All you know, everything isreally blurry for these young
people.
So what was happening is thatthe technology really overtook
everything and made it reallymade this younger generation
feel like they had to be, ifthey wanted to excel and succeed
and be a good employee, to beconstantly, constantly working.
(26:27):
What I've seen is that I think alot of young people, what's
happened is is that with thepandemic and everything that's
happened is that they're askingthemselves these questions of
like, what's my life all about?
Like, do I really want to betied down to my computer, you
know, in my bedroom for the restof my life?
Is this what my life's gonnalook like, you know, forever and
(26:50):
ever?
And then they started to askthemselves these questions.
But before the pandemic, youngpeople were much more willing to
go see a therapist.
Uh, millennials were primarilyraised by baby boomers who were
very accepting if their kid hadan issue when they were young to
take them to a therapist, right?
So they were introduced totherapy very early.
(27:12):
And I had a lot of clients thatcame to me that were like, yeah,
I went to therapy in my teens,but then I stopped, but now I'm
in my 20s and I'm gonna comeback.
So they're they're veryaccepting of that.
And, you know, a part of it'sit's not, we don't push meds on
people the first thing that theycome in.
But if someone's reallystruggling and having a hard
(27:32):
time, we recommend, and I dotoo, recommend, you know,
medications.
And so I think that the thing isis that people have been on
these meds for a long, longtime.
They just never talked aboutthem.
That's now they talk about them.
SPEAKER_02 (27:44):
That's true.
SPEAKER_00 (27:44):
People have been in therapy for a long, long time,
they just never talked about itas much as they're talking about
it now.
So it seems like, oh my God,everyone's on antidepressants
and everyone's depressed, andeveryone's this and everyone's
that.
It's like, no, no, no.
People have been anxious for along time.
It's just these youngergenerations are willing to say,
hey, I'm anxious, help me, pointme in the right direction.
(28:06):
And that's the real difference.
But they've also shown that yes,all of this technology is making
us anxious, that we are reallystruggling with our attention
span because we can't focus onanything for more than a few
minutes, right?
If you you don't hook someone insix seconds, they're gone
(28:26):
forever.
You know, I record videos forYouTube, I gotta like make them
shorter and shorter.
I'm constantly doing things likeInstagram.
You know, you want to put up areel?
Like I'm supposed to solve yourproblems in less than six
seconds.
SPEAKER_04 (28:36):
And now you got TikTok, which is sort of like,
you know, bringing YouTube downto a second.
Yes, yes.
And people are scrolling andscrolling and scrolling,
scrolling and scrolling andscrolling.
So it's hard.
It's so what do you tell thesekids?
I'm feeling anxious just talkingabout this.
I can't even imagine what itwould be like.
I mean, I'm so glad I'm olderbecause if I was young and
feeling a lot of, I mean, I Inever closed the door at 5:30.
(28:59):
I would work till 8:30 or 9 inmy first job, but I knew at nine
o'clock when I went home no onewould call me and there was no
computer at home.
So I couldn't keep working, Icouldn't keep writing.
So even if it was not nine tofive, you knew you had a break
when you got home.
Now you never have a break.
So, what's the answer to this?
And what do you tell these kidswhen it's causing so much
anxiety and life questions?
And how is the world gonna dealwith it?
SPEAKER_00 (29:21):
Well, I tell them that they need to set those
boundaries for themselves.
They need to figure out forthemselves, like what is it, you
know, how long do I want towork?
And setting a boundary andsetting a line for themselves.
And when we set boundaries, weit's gonna feel a little
uncomfortable.
That's what happens a lot oftimes.
(29:41):
People set these boundaries andthen they start to feel
uncomfortable.
And then they're like, oh, no,no, that means the boundary is
wrong.
It's like, no, no.
It just means that, you know,it's it's a hard boundary to
set.
So, you know, if I have clientswho are constantly, constantly
working, it's really figuringout okay, how many hours do you
want to work?
What feels reasonable?
reasonable.
Okay, this is the time.
And I will sit there with themand help them plan that out.
(30:04):
And then plan out like, okay, soif your boss texts you, what are
you going to do?
What do you do?
Well, you you have a coupledifferent I mean it depends on
the boss, but you have a coupledifferent options.
I think one is I think goinginto the office and setting,
talking to your boss about whenyou text me on the weekends, are
you expecting me to respond?
Because that's the biggestthing.
My clients just have never evenhad a conversation with their
(30:26):
boss about this particularissue.
I said, you know, if you areemailing, finding out from them
saying, hey, if you're emailingme on the weekends, if you're
texting me, what's theexpectation?
Find out what is expected of youfirst.
And then once you know, and mostof the time what I found is they
would go and talk to theirbosses about it.
And the boss would be like, ohno, I just was thinking about
(30:46):
this and I just sent it to you.
I didn't think of anything ofit.
So usually it works itself outand then they can then say well,
you know, then they know theyknow they don't need to respond.
They know they don't need to doanything about it.
I also think that part of it toois really making a conscious
choice not to check your workemail after a certain time.
Or if you're going to check yourwork email, you do it at this
(31:09):
time and you get like if you getcaught up in something you have
20 minutes to do it and thenyou're done.
It has to be an emergency.
So each person's very differentabout what they need.
And then I think that if youhave a situation where you have
a boss who doesn't respect yourboundaries and and is constantly
pinging you and then it comesback to you to figure out like
how much do I want this job?
(31:30):
How important is this to me todo that?
And then making that decisionfrom there.
SPEAKER_04 (31:35):
Well you know you said something earlier that
struck me which was you knowthey were feeling in order to in
order to excel they had to dothis.
And I still think some of thatexists.
The person that gets back to theboss or is engaged over the
weekend or at nine o'clock atnight has an idea, you know, all
that sort of thing, there'sreward for that.
And it's also hard as a workernot to feel that reward because
(31:59):
that's where you get your I meanmoney is one thing but you also
get strokes through affirmationsand that you're doing a good
job.
When the when the boss says wowevery time I text you you're
right on it you feel I'm doing agood job.
So you almost have to changethat mindset as well.
SPEAKER_00 (32:14):
Yeah.
And that's another thing Ipre-pandemic I used to go into
companies and talk to employees.
And it was always reallyinteresting because I would be
usually there hired to talkabout you know mental health in
the workplace or how tode-stress and the irony was that
it was it was always the workersit was never management would
never come.
And the thing was that as I waschatting with people, I knew
(32:37):
that they were in that bindwhich is you know it's this
thing where yes if you work workand work all the time and you
make work your life then you'regoing to get rewarded.
But at the same time thecompany's also talking out of
the other side of their mouthsaying but you need to take time
off and here we're going to hiresomeone to come in and talk to
you about stress.
Right, right, right, right.
Right.
And and and they knew they knewthey were in this bind and here
(32:59):
I am telling them to like setboundaries and do all this stuff
and they they know that.
So I don't disagree with you.
Yes, absolutely that there isthat correlation.
I think that that is going to Ithink it's going to be very
interesting to see what happenswith work in the next 20 years
because I think that's going tochange and really truly it
starts with if there's anymanagers and bosses out there,
(33:21):
it starts with you.
You have the power if you're aCEO, if you're whatever you're
running if you're a leader thenyou need to be more aware of
this.
And you need to recognize andunderstand that your company
cannot operate on that.
Because yes the people who workwork all the time yes they're
(33:42):
the ones getting the praise butcareers are a marathon not a
sprint.
You will get burned out I'veseen it time and time again.
And companies have to realizethat that if they if they want
to create long lasting employeeswhich is what is always cheaper
and more effective in the end ifyou want to you keep your and
(34:02):
retain your employees then itrequires the leaders the
management to change this way ofthinking and this way of being
and to start to change andmodify for these younger
generations.
But the problem is is that whenI say that to older generations
they don't like that.
No they don't at all.
(34:22):
Because much like myself I trustme that was just that first job
that I left at 530.
Once I moved to Hollywoodeverything changed.
Yeah you worked your bottom offyes my dad you know drilled into
me first to be there last toleave yes and so that's the
thing is is that that was for along long time that was the the
secret to success right whichwas you work really hard and you
(34:46):
you know you can buy things butthe problem now is is that it
doesn't work like that anymore.
Back in 1950 you the averageAmerican had a 90% chance of out
earning their parents today youhave about I think less than 50%
chance.
That's huge.
So what's happening withmillennials and Gen Zers is this
(35:07):
the American dream has changed.
Because in your generation andin my generation we were told if
you work hard you go to collegeyou find a career you first one
in last one out if you do all ofthat you can have a home you
know you can have women right wecan have it all you can have a
home you can have retirement youcan have all of these things all
(35:28):
of this will be given to you.
The problem is is that you'renot going to have those
millennials are working to deathand they can't afford homes yet
generation zers don't even thinkabout homes they can't even
fathom that that is so beyondthem.
They're not thinking aboutunless their parents are helping
them.
Yeah I mean and and that's thatis the the problem is is that
(35:49):
all of those things that mygeneration your generation the
things that we were pushing andpushing and pushing to show you
like this is what you get withthis American dream that has
changed.
And so yes I am sorry if you area manager at a company and you
were browbeaten by your bosseswhen you were younger and you
had to work your way up and nowyou're sitting on the top and
(36:12):
now you can't treat peoplepoorly.
You have to like you know whatthey always say is oh my God I
have to cow town to these um youknow snowflakes.
Right.
Right?
SPEAKER_04 (36:21):
And it's like talk you talk a lot about the
reputation that these kids haveand you really don't think they
are who what they have thereputation of.
SPEAKER_00 (36:28):
Yes.
And I think that's that's theproblem is is that the minute
these older generations hearlike hey maybe you should
approach it from this place orbe vulnerable or you know
understand it or or change yourbehavior that mentality of but I
work so hard to get to where Iam shouldn't why should I
change?
They need to change.
(36:49):
And what I think is reallyunique and special about
millennials and Gen Zers is theyare sort of these generations
that are saying no we're notgoing to do that.
Because not only are we notgoing to get a pension at the
end of our jobs, not only are weunsure of all of these things,
we have ways of making money nowthat were not possible before
(37:10):
and we don't need you.
That's true too.
You know that's the thing it'sfunny because when I was in
Hollywood and working constantlylike the thing was the only way
to work up was you had to besomeone's assistant.
And you had to be someone'sassistant you had to put up with
their crap and you had to put upwith their behavior and how they
treated you to get crumbs fromthem to teach you how to do this
job that you eventually wantedto do.
(37:32):
Right.
But the thing is nowadays kidscan just they just go on
YouTube.
I can just figure this out I canset up a small business I can do
this I can do that.
And and being an entrepreneur issuch a big thing now with social
media and all of that thatthere's so many young people
that are like well I'm not goingto put up with that.
Like why should I?
I'll just go and do my ownthing.
SPEAKER_03 (37:51):
I mean I I have to say though that's that's a very
small percentage of kids.
I mean most kids are not goingto be entrepreneurs most of us
are going to have to beassistants in something to start
out in well in some in some wayEllen but what she's saying and
I see this a lot it's sort ofthis whole gig economy.
SPEAKER_04 (38:08):
They may not be intro entrepreneurs but they're
putting together five or sixdifferent things that are making
them the same salary that theywere making.
Now someone remember when weinterviewed those two young
adults from Adultish and we weretalked about that a little bit
they said yes that's true but isit what was the word they use it
will it stay?
You know, is it what was theword they used?
Do you remember Ellen they saidum you know it might just be
(38:29):
short-lived.
SPEAKER_03 (38:30):
Yeah I mean yes and that's true but I think it sort
of sells something I meaneventually people do have to me
you know plant tomatoes and havestores and things like that.
Like there's it's sort of I Idon't know I think it feeds
their that sense of anxiety thatoh I'm going to be an
entrepreneur and if I'm not thenI'm a failure at that too.
I mean I think there are somekids who will be successful at
(38:53):
that but the vast majority arestill going to have to take
those jobs that, you know, Imean they're not everybody can
be an entrepreneur I agree.
SPEAKER_04 (39:02):
And I and then I also worry I mean I have a son
who's an entrepreneur and Iworry about his 401 insurance
disability insurance.
They forget about all thatstuff.
SPEAKER_00 (39:13):
I I listen Ellen I agree with you that not everyone
can be an entrepreneur.
But the main thing is is that Ijust remember when I was younger
in my 20s I did not question anyanything of what I shon that and
part of why I didn't questionwas there were no other you know
(39:34):
the the path was so clear rightand and what happened with the
internet and and the wayinformation is seen because
young people don't seeinformation the same way that I
know I see information becauseonce upon a time you had to work
to get information.
You had to work to get knowledgeand experience from somebody.
(39:55):
And the world that we live intoday is anyone become become an
expert in something withoutreally ever having to work for
it or find it or find thatknowledge.
Right?
You can it's everything is soreadily available to people that
information has changed andconsiderably.
And so that's one of the thingsthat I see is when millennials
(40:18):
and Gen Zers they come into theworkplace you know they're not
they're not looking at theirbosses as that same thing of oh
I'm going to get informationfrom this person.
I want to take these crumbs fromyou.
You know they're looking therebecause they have information
they're looking for other thingsthey're looking for a
relationship and mentorship muchmore than I think I I ever did.
(40:39):
And so so much has changed inthat in that way.
And I don't know I I it will beinteresting to see what happens
with Gen Zers, like what theyend up doing, right?
Because we have this greatresignation and I see this
constantly and the big the bigthing is a lot of my clients
they don't like service servicejobs.
Any kind of waitressing orbartending or any of that
(41:02):
they're hard to fill these days.
And that is an area that a lotof young people are sort of
willing to make other sacrificesto not have to take those kinds
of jobs.
SPEAKER_03 (41:12):
Somebody's got to take those jobs who's going to
take them do you think I don'tknow I mean someone will.
When you answer that yeah whenyou answer that I mean it I mean
that it's interesting though butit because it's like are we all
just gonna not have restaurantsanymore?
Like is that sort of it's notjust restaurants.
I mean my feeling is that I meanwe should honor those
(41:34):
professions as opposed to youknow look at them with with sort
of disdain.
But that I think is agenerational difference that
we're talking about.
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (41:44):
We we've been talking about money a lot and we
don't have a whole lot moretime.
So I'd really like to hear fromyou Tess what other things do
you think are in the top of mindof the struggles with young
adults?
I mean I listed a few thingsthere seems to be a lot of
mother-daughter conflictunresolved childhood conflicts
anything that comes up in yourpractice where you see these are
things that you could share withour listeners that they should
(42:06):
pay attention to boundaries isanother big one.
Do they come very much talkingabout my mom's driving me crazy
or my dad's driving me crazy orhow do I separate?
What are some of the top thingsyou hear?
SPEAKER_00 (42:17):
It is a lot of the the relationship with the
parents because it used to bethat right that it was thought
of as the teenage years were theyears where you individuate and
you become your person and whoyou are and that's not true.
Like it is young adulthood,emerging adulthood when you
really start to understandyourself and understand your
opinions.
(42:37):
And so what a lot of is it's alot of parsing out for young
people of is this what I believeor is this what my parents
believe and told me I shouldbelieve right and that's a big
thing because especially when itcomes around a lot of parents
said to their kids like becomean accountant become a lawyer
become this become that you'llalways have a job it's a good
it's a good living you need towork hard and a lot of people
(43:01):
went out and did that theybecame lawyers they you know
they became accountants and thenthey're four or five years into
the job and they hate it.
You know they're reallymiserable.
So a lot of it is trying tounderstand for themselves with
their parents like how do Iforge my own path that is
different than what I was taughtand what I was told how do I how
(43:21):
do I do that?
But there's there's that partabout it and it's also and then
how do I make how do I declareand say I want to do this and
not disappoint my parents or notfreak out my parents because
you're younger and you you're anadult now and you can see things
a lot clearer a lot of timesyoung people are they're able to
sort of look back at theirparents whether their parents
(43:41):
got divorced or you know mom ordad had an affair or they had a
step parent that they didn'tlike, right?
You can go back and as an adultnow and look at your childhood
and look at those things andyou're trying to you know trying
to understand like your parentsand why they did what they did
and understand yourrelationship.
So there is that piece of it ofkids you know wanting answers
(44:03):
from their parents of like whydid you get divorced and why are
why you know why did you move orwhy did you leave or any of
these things.
So it's it's a lot of it's a lotof kind of trying to understand
yourself through your parents.
SPEAKER_04 (44:17):
That makes so much sense and I think what it opens
up to me is I think for ourlisteners being willing to talk
about those things.
I mean my daughter saidsomething to me recently I mean
you know she's a fourth yearresident she's working her buns
off and she says you know so andso just left early the other day
and said she was worn out.
And she said, you know, mom Iwish I could do that but you
(44:38):
just drilled into me not to quityou know and I felt so bad.
I mean I didn't feel bad and Iunderstood what I drilled into
her but I was glad she washaving those thoughts and
thinking for herself in thatway.
So I think being able to talkabout it is probably important.
SPEAKER_00 (44:51):
Do you agree?
Oh yeah absolutely and I thinkthe way you handled it was very
good because I think sometimesthere's this want of this want
to be defensive of yes youshouldn't quit.
Right.
You know I taught you that andthat's great.
And I too listen I I haveparents who um very much taught
myself and my sister you knowwork you know work hard and you
know excel and and all of thatand I too have those feelings
(45:15):
where it's like God I wish youtold me to take a vacation more.
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (45:18):
Well you know funny she says to me when I started
ballet you wouldn't let me quitwhen and I had no thoughts that
I was like that.
I thought she enjoyed everythingshe was doing.
SPEAKER_03 (45:27):
You know so I'm gonna just intercede here that
you know this is not necessarilyshameful to not be able to say
you know what I'm gonna pushthrough this.
I mean that's no no no you'reright Ellen you're right you're
right you're right instead ofwalks around the block.
I mean there there's a balancein here and I think we tend to
go one direction or the other.
You're absolutely right um andit it that's also like Katie
(45:48):
shouldn't feel bad because she'snot that other person.
That other person is a separateperson with different goals
different values.
SPEAKER_04 (45:54):
Right, right you're right and so but you know Ellen
I was glad she was thinkingabout it and making decisions
for herself.
She'll never be a quitter that'snot her personality but I'm glad
she's thinking about herself.
SPEAKER_00 (46:05):
And I think that what I was going to say was your
reaction to her was it doesn'tsound like you got defensive and
tried to you know put your standor sort of apologize.
I think it's important to sortof just take it in.
SPEAKER_03 (46:16):
Well I did apologize a little bit no no no she liked
ballet she liked it I didn'ttell you this with a 100%
certainty.
SPEAKER_00 (46:26):
I didn't just kidding and if you hadn't I mean
that's the other side of thecoin is that you you know had
you allowed her to quit a lot ofthings you'd have a different
you know a different you'reright there's a balance there's
absolutely you're right but I'msure those are the exact kind of
things they talk to Tess aboutthat's my guess yeah yeah yeah
(46:47):
being a parent myself and I'llalways say I always say this to
my clients or or to whomeverit's like the parents aren't the
enemy when I'm in the room withthem their parents are not their
enemy I'm a mother I know whatit's like and you there is no
way you get through parentingunscathed no way it is so hard
so so hard.
And so I think the best thingthat you can do for your kids is
(47:09):
to be able to write that wasthat was your daughter's
experience.
Her experience in her mind was Iwanted to quit ballet and mom
didn't so it's not about youdefending that experience or
apologizing for it or anythingof just saying you know I hear
you you know I I see you I hearyou and and I you know because
in the end I think that kidsjust want to be seen by their
(47:32):
parents for who they are andaccepted for who they are right.
That's the core of it.
SPEAKER_04 (47:37):
We hear that all the time from the young adults we
interview whatever the situationthey always hear their parents'
voice in their minds.
Yeah.
Okay we've been going on reallylong here and we've got to wrap
up but I promised I would askthis one listener question Tess
and it's a little bit in regardsto money.
So I'm gonna ask this questionand then we're gonna ask you to
give us our few takeaways forour listenership.
Unless Ellen do you haveanything else before I do this
(47:59):
no because I love this question.
SPEAKER_03 (48:01):
I'm glad you're getting to it because I actually
know a few people are havingtrouble getting their kids out
of the house.
SPEAKER_04 (48:06):
Yeah so the listener question was they have a young
adult daughter so she and herhusband have helping their young
adult daughter in the last fewyears after college to help her
get her feet on the ground.
And now she's moved in with herboyfriend.
And the parents feel that theirsupport should stop but don't
know how to approach it withtheir adult child.
What should their steps be orhow would you address this?
SPEAKER_00 (48:27):
Well I think first the parents have to get on the
same page about what they feelcomfortable doing.
Like you know if they're both aton the same page of we really
need to we don't want to supporther any longer then what I would
do is I would go to her and Iwould put together a plan.
You know you don't want tospring it on them like we're
cutting you off.
You know see but you you want tobe able to go to her and say hey
(48:50):
you know we've been supportingyou we're we feel like we've
done enough we can't do thisanymore however you want to
phrase it and just say okay sowe're gonna put together a plan
for the next six months you knowand we can do it in a couple
different ways we can slowlystop 10 by 10% each month or
every you know whatever it is wecan slowly give you less and
(49:11):
less money or I we can or we cansay you know at the end of the
six months you we're giving yousix months warning we're gonna
stop supporting you at all.
I would go and I would just saythis is the plan.
This is what we're doing.
And you know if your kid comesback at you and being like oh my
God I can't I can't I can't putit back on them and say okay you
(49:31):
need to tell us exactly whereyou're where if if you want our
financial support you need totell us what you need
specifically and where it'sgonna go.
We're not gonna just blanketgive you money because I have a
lot of I hear this all the timelike the kids get on the cell
phone family plan, right?
And the parents just keep payingfor it or sometimes they'll pay
for insurance or healthinsurance because they're
(49:53):
worried about it.
That's why I'm saying you andyour partner have to kind of get
on the same page of listen, wewant to cut her off but we're
worried about the healthinsurance.
So let's just keep paying that.
We'll tell her this right thetwo of you want to make sure
that you know what you want andthen just go and tell them like
this is what's going to happen.
And if you if something needs tobe different, you need to come
(50:13):
back to me and tell them us whatis the plan and what is your
plan for eventually becomingfinancially free.
SPEAKER_04 (50:23):
You know like you can't we can't we're not gonna
pay this bill in perpetuityright you know I love the way
you said that you know because Ihad a situation um and it was
again the generation before minewhere the parents basically
supported their young adultchild through his marriage with
the kids never asking where thatmoney was going to and I thought
(50:43):
my gosh the parents are like youknow giving them everything.
So I love the idea of saying youknow if you continue to need it
let us know where it's going.
SPEAKER_00 (50:51):
Yeah yeah that's a good that's a good phrase.
SPEAKER_04 (50:53):
Good.
So anyway I really appreciatethat.
Now Tess before we end we alwaysask for a few takeaways you're
talking to our adult parentswhat are the two or three things
that you really want ouraudience to remember and think
about so if you have a child whois calling you constantly
wanting you to solve everysingle problem and you don't
know how to stop then it's timefor you to set a boundary.
SPEAKER_00 (51:15):
And the easiest way of doing that is stop solving
their problems and when you geton the phone or text you only
ask questions.
You always put things back onthem.
How do you think you should dothat?
What do you think you shouldsay?
Number two is be aware that theworld is very very different now
and that your kids are goingthrough something that is very
(51:38):
different.
Even if it feels like hey it'sthe same stuff I went through it
is all new to them.
It is all new to them.
They don't know yet so whensomeone doesn't know what do you
do do you shame them?
No you recognize and understandit and help guide them through
and that finally the core thingis your kid your children just
(52:00):
want you to love them and acceptthem for who they are.
So always when you walk into anydifficult conversation or get on
the phone with them or anythingjust keep that in mind.
Like my child wants me to lovethem and recognize them for who
they are today.
And it may not be what youwanted or what you planned but
(52:22):
that's being a parent.
Yeah that's such such animportant thing to remember
that's the hard part too aboutbeing a parent.
SPEAKER_04 (52:28):
Tess this has been wonderful I think what you're
doing and the audience thatyou've gravitated to is
wonderful.
You'll help so many people andI'm glad you had a terrible time
in LA so thank you so so muchfor joining us today.
Oh absolutely thank you forhaving me so that's a wrap
(52:54):
thanks Tess so much for yourinsight into our young adult
children and some of thestruggles that they face that we
might not quite understand.
I think we all know that everygeneration has their own hurdles
and as Tess said in the end it'sreally about loving our kids for
who they are.
That really seems like just thedefinition of parenting.
(53:16):
After the interview I thoughtabout my father who loved his
job so much he was able toinvolve all of us in his job and
kind of became a family affair.
In the end I'm glad he droveinto me the value of hard work I
do believe it's still veryimportant.
Anyway learn more about Tess andher practice by visiting
(53:38):
testbringhamcoaching.com at TestT-S Brigham R-I-G-H-A-M-Coaching
dot com she also offers a numberof books like a radically
practical guide to life in yourtwenties and some online courses
to help young adults find theirtrue selves, set goals and make
(54:01):
some of those important lifedecisions.
Go to her website and you'llfind a link to her courses and
her books.
It might be something you'llwant to share with your young
adult children.
Thanks again to Connie Fisher,our audio engineer and to you
all of our listeners.
Check out our social media sitesand you'll find the link to buy
our new bite your tongue muglet's spread the word.
(54:24):
And finally remember sometimesyou just have to bite your
tongue
If you've got a kid where you're really, I'm really
enabling them and I'm solvingall their problems for them,
that's where you want to stopsolving your problems and
simply, when you get on thephone with them, ask them
questions.
Which is they're calling you andsaying, Oh my god, I don't know
what to do, a pipe broke in myhouse, and I don't know, should
I call a plumber?
Do I call the landlord?
(00:25):
What do I do?
That's a moment where you wantto say, Well, what, huh?
What do you think you should do?
What makes the most sense foryou right now?
And coach them through solvingthe problem on their own.
That's one thing that I see is Isee a lot of parents wanting to,
you know, wanting to do itdifferently maybe than how their
relationship with their ownparents and they want to have
this close relationship withtheir kids, and then they
(00:46):
realize, like, oh my god, I mykid's 25 and they're calling me
all day, every day, asking meabout everything.
And so those are the moments oftime where you want to start to
be a bit more strategic andthink, okay, I need to get them
to solve their own problem.
And so that requires you to justask questions.
Just questions, no statements.
SPEAKER_04 (01:13):
Hello everyone, I'm Denise Gorin.
Welcome to Bite Your Tongue thePodcast.
Thanks for joining us as wespeak with experts, authors,
parents, and even young adultsto explore the transition from
parenting our young children tobuilding healthy relationships
with our now adults.
Hopefully we'll grow together,learn about ourselves, our young
(01:34):
adults, and of course, when tobite our tongues.
We are so happy you're with us.
So let's get started.
Hello everyone and welcome toanother episode of Bite Your
Tongue the Podcast.
It's hard to believe, but it'sbeen just about one year since
we dropped our first episode.
(01:55):
We're so grateful to all of you,our listeners, and of course
also to our amazing guests.
We're thrilled that ourlistenership continues to grow,
and we're very touched by thefeedback we continue to receive.
So let's celebrate.
Let's celebrate with a specialoffer you'll not want to miss.
Starting today, you'll be ableto buy these darling
(02:15):
bite-your-tongue coffee mugs.
They are fun and great to havearound.
Well, maybe to remind you whento bite your tongue.
A portion of each sale will helpcover the cost of doing the
podcast.
So you'll get a great mug and wecan keep on going.
We hope you'll help us.
There will be a link to buy themugs on our website, on social
(02:35):
media, and in all of our episodenotes.
Remember, they'll make greatgifts too.
We hope you love them.
And remember each purchase willhelp us keep going.
Now let's get on to thisepisode.
Well, today we're thrilled towelcome Tess Bringham, a
(02:58):
licensed psychotherapist, lifecoach, and former 20-something.
In fact, if you look at herwebsite, you'll learn a lot
about her 20-somethings.
Or her 20-something years, Ishould say.
But anyway, in a recent articlefrom CNBC, Tess says, over a
decade ago, when I first becamea therapist, I never expected
that five years later mypractice would consist of nearly
(03:20):
90% millennials, and the rest ofmy patients being the parents of
millennials.
So hey, listeners, she's gotboth sides of the story covered
for us.
Tess has been featured in majormedia throughout the U.S., from
the New York Times to OMagazine.
So we're pretty excited to haveher today.
I think it's going to be reallygreat, Ellen.
What do you say?
SPEAKER_03 (03:40):
Oh, I totally think this is going to be great.
She's going to give us thatinside scoop on what she's
hearing from our kids, themillennial generation.
And maybe through this we canunderstand a bit more about them
and even more importantly, wherewe might offer some compassion
and support and even some uhmental health assistance for us
as we're dealing with them andthey're dealing with us, I have
(04:03):
to say.
SPEAKER_04 (04:04):
You're telling me, and and Ellen, maybe we ought to
all be discussing that with ournew bite-your-tongue mug over a
cup of coffee, right?
Oh, I can't wait to get mine.
SPEAKER_03 (04:13):
Yes.
Absolutely.
Anyway, go ahead.
So, Tess, uh, is it okay if wecall you Tess?
Oh, yeah, of course.
Well, we'd love to know a bitmore about you and how you
became a therapist with apractice of mostly millennials.
SPEAKER_00 (04:26):
Well, so yeah, I mean, Denise mentions this.
My website talks about my own20-something years because my
own 20-something years were fullof, you know, what am I doing
with my life and what does itall mean?
And I had my own quarter lifecrisis when I was 27.
And I didn't really know Iworked in my big dream when it
(04:46):
growing up was to work in filmHollywood.
Um, and that's what I worked forthroughout my entire life,
through high school and college.
I was a film major and I, youknow, spent my summers like
interning at I spent an entiresummer interning at Columbia
Pictures for free.
And then I interned at WarnerBrothers, and I, you know, this
(05:08):
was my dream.
And when I was 24, I went off toLA and to fulfill my dream.
And by 27, I was depressed andexhausted and lost and confused.
And and that's when I had thisquarter life crisis, and I ended
up leaving LA, coming back tothe Bay Area, which is where I'm
(05:29):
from, and having to sort ofstart all over again in some
ways.
And that's when I finallydecided that I wanted to be uh a
therapist.
That was the thing that Ienjoyed the most about working.
I used to work with actors, andthat's what I enjoyed the most
was just being able to be, youknow, listen to their problems,
hear what they have to say.
I thought I was pretty good atthat part.
(05:50):
And then about 10 years ago, Iopened up, um, after I got
licensed and all that, I openedup a practice in downtown San
Francisco, not really knowingwho was going to show up.
And what happened was that abunch of 25, 26, 27-year-olds
showed up.
And I was like, oh, wait asecond.
I remember these years.
I remember how lost and confusedI was because it had been over a
(06:11):
decade since I went through allof that.
I was like, oh wow, you know,being a young adult in the world
today, there are some thingsthat I could really relate to
with my clients that I couldunderstand.
Because I also spent a goodchunk of my, you know,
20-something years in SanFrancisco and in LA.
And I and I understood what itwas like to be in the city and
and to deal with sort of theday-to-day part.
(06:34):
But as I was talking to them, Irealized there was this whole
other aspect of life that I hadno idea about that I didn't have
to deal with, which was theinternet, social media, um, and
and really, you know, thepressures that having
information at your fingertipscreate, uh, the pressure of
keeping up with the Joneses andhaving to, you know, having
(06:55):
friends who are getting engagedand, you know, promoting
themselves and all of this onsome social media platform or
another, and that constantlybeing in your face.
And so that's when I, you know,I really started to study this
generation.
How are millennials different?
What is their experience likefrom myself?
(07:16):
I mean, I'm in my late 40s, soI'm a Gen Zier.
I mean, Gen Gen Xer, sorry.
And I um, so I really started totry to understand them.
Like, what is it about thisgeneration and what is it that
they're experiencing that noother generation has ever
experienced before?
And so that's where it reallycame from.
And then inevitably, what wouldhappen is parents would call me
(07:38):
because they see that I workwith 20-somethings.
So they they'd call me upbecause they were lost and
confused as well on what do I doabout my kid?
And that's when I started towork with them as well.
SPEAKER_04 (07:49):
Um, I know this episode, we want to get into the
top five or more concerns yousee in your practice, but I want
to ask a couple questions first.
I listened to your video, so yousay all this and I'm getting it.
Why are the 20-somethings sohard?
Have they always been so hard?
And also even the adult parentrelationship.
I think more and more of ourfriends, we're in our 60s, are
(08:11):
talking about how to, you know,build that healthy relationship
with our adult children.
So you did a whole video on whyyoung adulthood is so hard.
Can you sort of sum that up forus?
SPEAKER_00 (08:22):
Sure.
So it's hard because you'retrying to do two things at once
and they both inform each other,and you're really flying by the
seat of your pants.
So, on one hand, you are tryingto figure out who you are, what
you want, what life's all about.
How are you gonna be in theworld?
What are you gonna value andbelieve in, right?
(08:44):
Because up until this point,your values and beliefs and how
you see the world has beenheavily influenced by your
parents and how you lived andhow you grew up.
And when you're out on your own,this is your opportunity to say,
like, oh, is work, you know, doI want to make my career my
entire life?
Do I want to sacrifice, youknow, all these things over
here, vacations and fun and allof that for my career?
(09:08):
Like making those big decisionsaround who you are and what you
value.
And at the same time, you'retrying to figure out what kind
of work do I want to do?
What kind of relationship do Iwant to be in?
Do I want to be in arelationship?
You know, how do I be in ahealthy relationship?
Do I want to get married?
Do I want to have kids?
Like, where am I going to live?
You know, what all of these bigquestions.
(09:28):
And the thing is, is that it'sthrough understanding yourself
and your values and what youbelieve in that informs the kind
of jobs that you pick and theand the um relationships that
you have in the city that youlive in.
But also your experiences atyour jobs and your relationships
in the cities that you live in,that actually also informs your
(09:48):
values and what you believe in.
So you're you're sort of walkinginto this thing a bit, you have
a sense of who you are already,but you're walking into this and
you're like, okay, I have tofigure all of these things out.
And so the thing is that you'reyou're constantly like in a job
and you're like, oh, wait aminute, it's not quite this job,
and this is going to inform myvalues over here.
And so my values are gonnachange a little bit, okay, and
(10:10):
that's gonna change the job Ihave, right?
And so this is what you see withyoung people.
There's a lot of moving aroundin jobs and cities and
relationships because it's thisconstant trying to figure it
out.
And the problem is that there'ssomewhere along the way, there
was this myth that was createdthat said that you have to
figure all this out by 30.
That's what I was gonna say.
Are they rushing it?
(10:31):
Right.
Exactly, exactly.
Yes.
And and that's the part that'sreally tricky is that this is
where the social media stuffcomes into play.
Because when I was younger and Iwas looking around at my
friends, you know, we were alldriving crappy cards and we were
all broke and we were, you know,all sort of flailing around.
There wasn't this thing that wasattached, you know, we all have
(10:52):
our phones attached to our handsnow.
And there wasn't this app that Icould go to where I could scroll
through and see people my age infabulous cars, taking fabulous
vacations, you know, doing allof this stuff that constantly,
you know, is this reminder ofI'm failing in some way, I'm
behind in some way.
Um, and I think we did, westarted creating these things 30
(11:14):
under 30 and these lists and allof that that made 30 this weird
cutoff point.
And I think that for a lot ofyoung people, they really see
that as, oh, I'm an adult now.
If I'm over 30, I'm officially,you know, old, or I have to uh I
have to figure it all out.
And everybody's worst fear is ifI don't figure out these things
now, I'm gonna wake up at 50 andbe miserable.
(11:36):
So I gotta figure this out now.
SPEAKER_03 (11:37):
Can I just tell you, hearing you say this, that a
person at my age, I don't knowif Denise is feeling this too,
is it's not that different.
Like the things that you'resaying that 20-somethings have
to negotiate are the same sortof things that 60-something year
olds have to negotiate, which iswhat's my role in the world
(11:58):
right now?
I'm not doing the same things Iused to do.
I'm not a parent as my primarysort of relationship.
And many 60-year-olds arechanging their jobs, leaving
their jobs, and trying to figureout what the next stage of their
life is.
And this is different for thisgeneration, I think, because 50
(12:18):
years ago, if you reached theage of 62, you really were kind
of looking at the end of yourlife, and now that's not the way
it is at all.
We're sort of expected to alsohave another part of our life
that is productive andgenerative.
And it's just interestinghearing you talk about this, how
similar the process is for bothsides.
SPEAKER_04 (12:40):
But I want to say, I'm gonna add to that, Ellen.
I think some of that's true, butI think the difference is when
you're in your 20s, you do havethis fear, sort of like Tess
said, if you don't do it now,you're gonna be a failure.
And I think we've accomplishedwhat we probably are, you know,
our greatest accomplishments upto 62, 63, maybe Hillary Clinton
(13:00):
75, and running for president orwhatever.
And I always say, God, she canrun for president.
I can't even, you know, tie myshoes sometimes.
Um, you know, we have all thosesame comparisons going on, but I
think there's a lot of fear inyour 20s of not taking the right
steps, and then that's the wholerest of your life's gonna be a
failure.
SPEAKER_03 (13:17):
Absolutely.
And I do think that we gave themthis impression that somehow
this is, you know, my my littlebone to pick with just how we,
and I'm putting myself in there,and the education system sort of
make every child think thatthey're going to grow up to be a
leader when really only very fewpeople can be leaders.
And so I think we we have setthat generation up for feeling
(13:40):
exactly like they do.
SPEAKER_00 (13:41):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Well, and the other thing I wasgonna say about you know, the
difference between 20 and 60 isthat you have, I often say there
are things about aging that Idon't love, right?
There's a lot of them.
But one of the nicer thingsabout getting older is you have
the wisdom of time, right?
You have the wisdom ofexperience.
And that's what a lot of times Ithink is parents, especially
(14:03):
they forget, which is your kidsnever done this before.
They they don't know if they'regonna be okay.
You know you're gonna be okaybecause you've faced these
questions before.
You've gotten through it, youknow that you can always bounce
back, you know you've been downand you figured it out.
But when you're 25 and you'releaving a job that has defined
(14:24):
you, and you don't know ifyou're ever gonna find something
else.
You don't know if you leave thisrelationship, if there's gonna
be someone else around thecorner.
So that's the part that's reallyhard when you're young.
You just don't, you can't reallytrust that things are gonna, you
know, you're gonna figure thingsout because you haven't had time
to trust.
(14:45):
And that's one of the biggestthings that I see is this this
my clients really struggle witha lot of anxiety.
And that anxiety is coming fromthis fear of, right, things
aren't gonna work out for me, orI'm gonna make a mistake along
the way, or or I'm gonna failand everything's gonna fall
apart.
And the answer to that is alwaysyou have to trust.
(15:08):
You have to trust that you willfigure it out.
And it's incredibly difficult ifyou have no uh background in it.
SPEAKER_04 (15:14):
So, so what's our role as parents when we know
that our kids are feeling a lotof this, making these big
decisions, and we're saying, Didyou get a job?
Are you dating anyone?
You know, all of that.
How can we temper that and yetstill feel like we're uh being
supportive?
And, you know, there's lots ofsituations I can look back on,
(15:36):
not in my direct family, where Isaw parents of my parents'
generation not being firm withtheir kids, enabling them
through their whole lives, youknow, that sort of thing.
So we want to be supportive, butnot enabling.
What role can we play inlessening this anxiety without,
you know, doing too much?
SPEAKER_00 (15:53):
Yeah, and I think it's so hard.
And it's always, I always tellpeople so much of this is a
case-by-case basis, really basedon your kid, right?
You know, based on your kid andyour relationship with your kid
and how they are and how they'vebeen throughout their lives.
But in terms of what you can do,I I think that a lot of it is
doing less of the asking, youknow, asking those kinds of
(16:16):
questions, like, did you meetsomeone?
Where, you know, what's going onwith your career, and asking
more open-ended questions abouthow, you know, how are you
feeling?
How are things going?
I think also a lot of timesthere's a lot of value, and we
can do it especially on text,there's a lot of value in just
texting your kid and saying, youknow, I see you doing these
(16:37):
things, I'm so proud of you, orI see things are really
difficult for you, just want tolet you know I'm thinking about
you.
Because kids always want to, nomatter who you are, what your
background is.
Like kids need their parents'approval, you know, no matter
how what your relationship iswith your your parents.
And that is that's a very DNAgenetic right piece because we
(16:59):
need our parents for survival.
We always have, and so we needtheir approval for survival.
And so your kids are alwayslooking for your, you know, your
approval, your the stamp that Iam doing okay, I am living up to
what you what you want and whatI want for myself.
And so I think that you cancheer that part on versus
(17:21):
getting into the nitty-gritty ofwork and love and right, because
we get very stuck in this placeof if I have uh a great job
where I get paid a lot and I dothese things, if I'm in a
marriage and and I have kids orI have a home or whatever these
other trappings are, like if Ihave all that, those things are
(17:41):
gonna make me happy.
And in actuality, they may ormay not, right?
Right?
Like you want to celebrate theirhappiness.
We've all learned that.
Yeah, but they haven't.
And so they're trying to yourkids are trying to figure that
out for themselves.
And I think also just tellingthem, I mean, I think I think
there's a lot of value.
(18:02):
I think there's a lot of valuein leaders being vulnerable, and
I think there's a lot of valuein parents being vulnerable as
well, in terms of telling them,like, hey, this thing happened
to me and this is what happened,and I fell down and I failed,
and then, you know, I figured itout, I picked myself back up.
Giving your kids less of thelectures of what you feel like
(18:23):
they should be doing, and a bitmore of this is who I, this is
my life experience, this is whoI am.
And I have faith and belief thatyou too will figure it out.
If you've got a kid where you'rereally, you know, you feel like
I'm I'm in really enabling themand I'm solving all their
problems for them, that's apoint where I would say that's
(18:45):
where you want to stop, stopsolving their problems and
simply, you know, when you geton the phone with them, ask them
questions.
Which is, you know, if they'recalling you and saying, oh my
God, I don't know what to do,you know, a pipe broke in my
house, and I don't know, shouldI call a plumber?
Do I call the landlord?
What do I do?
That's a moment where you wantto say, Well, what, huh?
What do you think you should do?
(19:06):
Like, what makes the most sensefor you right now?
And coach them through solvingthe problem on their own.
Because that's one thing that Isee is I see a lot of parents
wanting to, you know, wanting todo it differently maybe than how
their relationship with theirown parents and they want to
have this close relationshipwith their kids.
And then they realize, like, ohmy God, I my kid's 25 and
(19:27):
they're calling me all day,every day, asking me about
everything.
And so those are the moments intime where you want to start to
be a bit more strategic andthink, okay, I need to get them
to solve their own problems.
And so that requires you to justask questions.
Just questions, no statements.
SPEAKER_03 (19:43):
Yeah, do you find that with this generation it
tends more towards the callingtoo much as opposed to the
calling too little?
SPEAKER_04 (19:52):
Not my kids, but go ahead, Tess.
I was going to say, yeah, whatabout the ones who don't call
enough?
Yeah, I don't know.
Do you have boys?
No, I have a girl and a boy, andactually, my boy is he he would
call more.
But my daughter is very busy.
I mean, she's a resident, butstill, he's much more a talker.
SPEAKER_00 (20:09):
Yeah, I mean, it's funny because usually
gender-wise, what I've seen isthat usually the the girls are
the ones that are callingconstantly and the boys not so
much.
Again, I think it's therelationship that you have with
your parents that you have withthem that really determines how
much they're calling or notcalling.
But ask your question again.
(20:29):
I'm sorry, I got what was youroriginal question?
SPEAKER_03 (20:32):
Oh, I think I just said you you answered it, I
think, which is what about doyou do you find that in this
generation it's more they'rethey're wanting their parents
too much as opposed to toolittle?
And what do we do about the oneswho want too little?
I have one of each, so yeah, butit but it's different.
It it involves different sortsof approaches either way.
SPEAKER_00 (20:50):
Yeah.
I mean, listen, I I only haveone child, so I don't know what
it's like to parent multiplechildren, but I think, right?
It's just my assumption is thatyou you parent each child the
way in which they need it,right?
And so it sounds like yourdaughter needs a little bit.
Maybe it sounds like she's got alot going on, she's got a lot on
her plate.
It's not that she's not thinkingof you and doesn't care about
(21:10):
you.
It's just that, you know, whenshe finally has a half hour to
herself, she wants to zone outand watch Netflix.
SPEAKER_04 (21:17):
Well, and I was and I was that like that way as a
young adult.
I mean, I had to call once aweek and I sort of dreaded that
call.
I was very close to my parents.
I'm not sure why I dreaded it.
I'm still trying to figure thatout.
I think it was sort of what yousaid before.
You always want your parents'approval.
You know, was I doing thingsthat were good enough?
Was I pleasing them?
And when you're on the phonewith them, you feel that more
(21:37):
because you're attached, youknow what I mean?
You're you're thinking about itmore.
I think it's important the wayyou handle those calls, and
we've discussed that a littlebit.
But let's get to some of thesethings.
You say the number one concernthat millennials have is money.
And as I look at inflation andreal estate prices and all that
sort of thing, I don't know whatI would be feeling as an
emerging adult today.
(21:59):
So what are they feeling?
How can we be supportive?
You know, that sort of thing.
That's a pretty tough situationto be in right now.
SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
It is, it really is.
And I I I will say I wrote thatarticle before the pandemic, and
the pandemic has changed thingsa little bit.
They're even more worried,right?
Or not?
Yes and no.
It's been interesting, and maybethis this might be more of a Gen
Z thing because my I started offworking with millennials.
My millennials are gettingolder.
So this new generation comingup, I have a lot of Gen Z
clients as well.
(22:27):
And so with the what changedwith the pandemic was there were
a lot of young people who hadjobs that they weren't making a
lot of money, and then they gotfired and laid off.
And then, you know, thegovernment was giving out like a
thousand dollars a week.
And right, we were they werethere was suddenly they were
like, oh my God, I'm making moremoney now being unemployed than
I ever did working all the time.
(22:47):
And a lot of them, right, reallysaved that money.
And then there was these thestipends that we were getting,
right?
And because they're not working,so they get the full benefit of
the stipend, you know, they getthe full amount.
A lot of them moved back homewith their parents and they
didn't have as many expenses.
And so what I'm seeing is thisinteresting thing of kids who
the young ones who reallypandemic was very difficult, but
(23:10):
financially they walked awaywith a lot of money, and their
parents are really anxiousbecause they're not really doing
anything now.
SPEAKER_04 (23:16):
Interesting.
So that's a real catch.
That's a real catch 22.
I would be pretty frustrated ifmy kid wasn't working and just
depending on that kind of thing.
But I found some of those kidsthat got those whatever, because
stipends and stuff spent them.
I mean, my husband was playinggolf one day, and the guy he was
playing with was a tattooartist.
And the tattoo artist said hecan tell every time a stimulus
(23:37):
check went out, there were linesat the tattoo parlor.
SPEAKER_02 (23:41):
Well, that'll tell you something about the well, it
was supposed to be a stimulus.
I mean, that's exactly right.
It did what it was supposed todo, but but I don't think I
don't think tattoos were whatthey did.
SPEAKER_04 (23:51):
I think they were hoping there was a line at the
grocery store, but um exactly.
And I know how needed that was.
I'm not getting into a politicalconversation.
Parent to do now, the kids stillliving at home.
I I'm just gonna say something.
I just had an interview withthese two young, they're
actually comedians in Brooklyn.
They have a podcast called OKStupid.
And we titled the episode OkayStupid and What Other Things
(24:12):
Your Your Kids Say About You.
Um, but one of the things theysaid in the interview was that
all their friends are onantidepressants.
And yet they feel like they'remaking all the right choices in
their lives.
They're doing things reallydifferent from their parents.
So I'm thinking, uh, and theytalked a lot about their friends
living at home and all that sortof thing.
So I'm wrapping up a lot ofthings in one.
(24:33):
But what's going on here?
SPEAKER_00 (24:35):
A couple different things.
I mean, one is that, you know,the the relationship that people
have, the younger generations,to mental health is very, very
different, right?
Okay.
For the first time, and I mean,I think the pandemic, one of the
things of the pandemic that Ithink has been a positive is I
think we're finally talkingabout mental health.
We're finally talking about theum, you know, that we've created
(24:58):
a society in a world wheretechnology is great, technology
has helped us tremendously.
And imagine the pandemic withouttechnology, it would have been a
mess, right?
To keep it going.
I couldn't have been able tokeep my business going.
Nobody would have.
Yeah.
And so it's really positive.
But the flip side of it is, andwhat we forget is that the
expectations that we have onyoung people in the workplace
(25:21):
today is radically different.
So, you know, my first job outof college, I worked 9 30 to 5
30.
And when 5 30 hit, we lock thedoors, we turn off the lights,
we lock the doors, and we left.
And my boss had no way ofgetting a hold of me unless she
called me at home and I pickedup.
But what's happening now withmillennials and now Gen Zers is
(25:43):
that when technology hit, it waslike a free-for-all.
Like people were workingnon-stop, especially here in the
San Francisco Bay Area where wehave Silicon Valley.
Almost everywhere.
Yeah.
And and so what was happening,and I saw this with my clients,
I was like, God, there's no youyourself at age 25, 26, you have
to figure out your ownboundaries.
Like there are no boundaries.
(26:04):
The the blinds are reallyblurry.
All you know, everything isreally blurry for these young
people.
So what was happening is thatthe technology really overtook
everything and made it reallymade this younger generation
feel like they had to be, ifthey wanted to excel and succeed
and be a good employee, to beconstantly, constantly working.
(26:27):
What I've seen is that I think alot of young people, what's
happened is is that with thepandemic and everything that's
happened is that they're askingthemselves these questions of
like, what's my life all about?
Like, do I really want to betied down to my computer, you
know, in my bedroom for the restof my life?
Is this what my life's gonnalook like, you know, forever and
(26:50):
ever?
And then they started to askthemselves these questions.
But before the pandemic, youngpeople were much more willing to
go see a therapist.
Uh, millennials were primarilyraised by baby boomers who were
very accepting if their kid hadan issue when they were young to
take them to a therapist, right?
So they were introduced totherapy very early.
(27:12):
And I had a lot of clients thatcame to me that were like, yeah,
I went to therapy in my teens,but then I stopped, but now I'm
in my 20s and I'm gonna comeback.
So they're they're veryaccepting of that.
And, you know, a part of it'sit's not, we don't push meds on
people the first thing that theycome in.
But if someone's reallystruggling and having a hard
(27:32):
time, we recommend, and I dotoo, recommend, you know,
medications.
And so I think that the thing isis that people have been on
these meds for a long, longtime.
They just never talked aboutthem.
That's now they talk about them.
SPEAKER_02 (27:44):
That's true.
SPEAKER_00 (27:44):
People have been in therapy for a long, long time,
they just never talked about itas much as they're talking about
it now.
So it seems like, oh my God,everyone's on antidepressants
and everyone's depressed, andeveryone's this and everyone's
that.
It's like, no, no, no.
People have been anxious for along time.
It's just these youngergenerations are willing to say,
hey, I'm anxious, help me, pointme in the right direction.
(28:06):
And that's the real difference.
But they've also shown that yes,all of this technology is making
us anxious, that we are reallystruggling with our attention
span because we can't focus onanything for more than a few
minutes, right?
If you you don't hook someone insix seconds, they're gone
(28:26):
forever.
You know, I record videos forYouTube, I gotta like make them
shorter and shorter.
I'm constantly doing things likeInstagram.
You know, you want to put up areel?
Like I'm supposed to solve yourproblems in less than six
seconds.
SPEAKER_04 (28:36):
And now you got TikTok, which is sort of like,
you know, bringing YouTube downto a second.
Yes, yes.
And people are scrolling andscrolling and scrolling,
scrolling and scrolling andscrolling.
So it's hard.
It's so what do you tell thesekids?
I'm feeling anxious just talkingabout this.
I can't even imagine what itwould be like.
I mean, I'm so glad I'm olderbecause if I was young and
feeling a lot of, I mean, I Inever closed the door at 5:30.
(28:59):
I would work till 8:30 or 9 inmy first job, but I knew at nine
o'clock when I went home no onewould call me and there was no
computer at home.
So I couldn't keep working, Icouldn't keep writing.
So even if it was not nine tofive, you knew you had a break
when you got home.
Now you never have a break.
So, what's the answer to this?
And what do you tell these kidswhen it's causing so much
anxiety and life questions?
And how is the world gonna dealwith it?
SPEAKER_00 (29:21):
Well, I tell them that they need to set those
boundaries for themselves.
They need to figure out forthemselves, like what is it, you
know, how long do I want towork?
And setting a boundary andsetting a line for themselves.
And when we set boundaries, weit's gonna feel a little
uncomfortable.
That's what happens a lot oftimes.
(29:41):
People set these boundaries andthen they start to feel
uncomfortable.
And then they're like, oh, no,no, that means the boundary is
wrong.
It's like, no, no.
It just means that, you know,it's it's a hard boundary to
set.
So, you know, if I have clientswho are constantly, constantly
working, it's really figuringout okay, how many hours do you
want to work?
What feels reasonable?
reasonable.
Okay, this is the time.
And I will sit there with themand help them plan that out.
(30:04):
And then plan out like, okay, soif your boss texts you, what are
you going to do?
What do you do?
Well, you you have a coupledifferent I mean it depends on
the boss, but you have a coupledifferent options.
I think one is I think goinginto the office and setting,
talking to your boss about whenyou text me on the weekends, are
you expecting me to respond?
Because that's the biggestthing.
My clients just have never evenhad a conversation with their
(30:26):
boss about this particularissue.
I said, you know, if you areemailing, finding out from them
saying, hey, if you're emailingme on the weekends, if you're
texting me, what's theexpectation?
Find out what is expected of youfirst.
And then once you know, and mostof the time what I found is they
would go and talk to theirbosses about it.
And the boss would be like, ohno, I just was thinking about
(30:46):
this and I just sent it to you.
I didn't think of anything ofit.
So usually it works itself outand then they can then say well,
you know, then they know theyknow they don't need to respond.
They know they don't need to doanything about it.
I also think that part of it toois really making a conscious
choice not to check your workemail after a certain time.
Or if you're going to check yourwork email, you do it at this
(31:09):
time and you get like if you getcaught up in something you have
20 minutes to do it and thenyou're done.
It has to be an emergency.
So each person's very differentabout what they need.
And then I think that if youhave a situation where you have
a boss who doesn't respect yourboundaries and and is constantly
pinging you and then it comesback to you to figure out like
how much do I want this job?
(31:30):
How important is this to me todo that?
And then making that decisionfrom there.
SPEAKER_04 (31:35):
Well you know you said something earlier that
struck me which was you knowthey were feeling in order to in
order to excel they had to dothis.
And I still think some of thatexists.
The person that gets back to theboss or is engaged over the
weekend or at nine o'clock atnight has an idea, you know, all
that sort of thing, there'sreward for that.
And it's also hard as a workernot to feel that reward because
(31:59):
that's where you get your I meanmoney is one thing but you also
get strokes through affirmationsand that you're doing a good
job.
When the when the boss says wowevery time I text you you're
right on it you feel I'm doing agood job.
So you almost have to changethat mindset as well.
SPEAKER_00 (32:14):
Yeah.
And that's another thing Ipre-pandemic I used to go into
companies and talk to employees.
And it was always reallyinteresting because I would be
usually there hired to talkabout you know mental health in
the workplace or how tode-stress and the irony was that
it was it was always the workersit was never management would
never come.
And the thing was that as I waschatting with people, I knew
(32:37):
that they were in that bindwhich is you know it's this
thing where yes if you work workand work all the time and you
make work your life then you'regoing to get rewarded.
But at the same time thecompany's also talking out of
the other side of their mouthsaying but you need to take time
off and here we're going to hiresomeone to come in and talk to
you about stress.
Right, right, right, right.
Right.
And and and they knew they knewthey were in this bind and here
(32:59):
I am telling them to like setboundaries and do all this stuff
and they they know that.
So I don't disagree with you.
Yes, absolutely that there isthat correlation.
I think that that is going to Ithink it's going to be very
interesting to see what happenswith work in the next 20 years
because I think that's going tochange and really truly it
starts with if there's anymanagers and bosses out there,
(33:21):
it starts with you.
You have the power if you're aCEO, if you're whatever you're
running if you're a leader thenyou need to be more aware of
this.
And you need to recognize andunderstand that your company
cannot operate on that.
Because yes the people who workwork all the time yes they're
(33:42):
the ones getting the praise butcareers are a marathon not a
sprint.
You will get burned out I'veseen it time and time again.
And companies have to realizethat that if they if they want
to create long lasting employeeswhich is what is always cheaper
and more effective in the end ifyou want to you keep your and
(34:02):
retain your employees then itrequires the leaders the
management to change this way ofthinking and this way of being
and to start to change andmodify for these younger
generations.
But the problem is is that whenI say that to older generations
they don't like that.
No they don't at all.
(34:22):
Because much like myself I trustme that was just that first job
that I left at 530.
Once I moved to Hollywoodeverything changed.
Yeah you worked your bottom offyes my dad you know drilled into
me first to be there last toleave yes and so that's the
thing is is that that was for along long time that was the the
secret to success right whichwas you work really hard and you
(34:46):
you know you can buy things butthe problem now is is that it
doesn't work like that anymore.
Back in 1950 you the averageAmerican had a 90% chance of out
earning their parents today youhave about I think less than 50%
chance.
That's huge.
So what's happening withmillennials and Gen Zers is this
(35:07):
the American dream has changed.
Because in your generation andin my generation we were told if
you work hard you go to collegeyou find a career you first one
in last one out if you do all ofthat you can have a home you
know you can have women right wecan have it all you can have a
home you can have retirement youcan have all of these things all
(35:28):
of this will be given to you.
The problem is is that you'renot going to have those
millennials are working to deathand they can't afford homes yet
generation zers don't even thinkabout homes they can't even
fathom that that is so beyondthem.
They're not thinking aboutunless their parents are helping
them.
Yeah I mean and and that's thatis the the problem is is that
(35:49):
all of those things that mygeneration your generation the
things that we were pushing andpushing and pushing to show you
like this is what you get withthis American dream that has
changed.
And so yes I am sorry if you area manager at a company and you
were browbeaten by your bosseswhen you were younger and you
had to work your way up and nowyou're sitting on the top and
(36:12):
now you can't treat peoplepoorly.
You have to like you know whatthey always say is oh my God I
have to cow town to these um youknow snowflakes.
Right.
Right?
SPEAKER_04 (36:21):
And it's like talk you talk a lot about the
reputation that these kids haveand you really don't think they
are who what they have thereputation of.
SPEAKER_00 (36:28):
Yes.
And I think that's that's theproblem is is that the minute
these older generations hearlike hey maybe you should
approach it from this place orbe vulnerable or you know
understand it or or change yourbehavior that mentality of but I
work so hard to get to where Iam shouldn't why should I
change?
They need to change.
(36:49):
And what I think is reallyunique and special about
millennials and Gen Zers is theyare sort of these generations
that are saying no we're notgoing to do that.
Because not only are we notgoing to get a pension at the
end of our jobs, not only are weunsure of all of these things,
we have ways of making money nowthat were not possible before
(37:10):
and we don't need you.
That's true too.
You know that's the thing it'sfunny because when I was in
Hollywood and working constantlylike the thing was the only way
to work up was you had to besomeone's assistant.
And you had to be someone'sassistant you had to put up with
their crap and you had to put upwith their behavior and how they
treated you to get crumbs fromthem to teach you how to do this
job that you eventually wantedto do.
(37:32):
Right.
But the thing is nowadays kidscan just they just go on
YouTube.
I can just figure this out I canset up a small business I can do
this I can do that.
And and being an entrepreneur issuch a big thing now with social
media and all of that thatthere's so many young people
that are like well I'm not goingto put up with that.
Like why should I?
I'll just go and do my ownthing.
SPEAKER_03 (37:51):
I mean I I have to say though that's that's a very
small percentage of kids.
I mean most kids are not goingto be entrepreneurs most of us
are going to have to beassistants in something to start
out in well in some in some wayEllen but what she's saying and
I see this a lot it's sort ofthis whole gig economy.
SPEAKER_04 (38:08):
They may not be intro entrepreneurs but they're
putting together five or sixdifferent things that are making
them the same salary that theywere making.
Now someone remember when weinterviewed those two young
adults from Adultish and we weretalked about that a little bit
they said yes that's true but isit what was the word they use it
will it stay?
You know, is it what was theword they used?
Do you remember Ellen they saidum you know it might just be
(38:29):
short-lived.
SPEAKER_03 (38:30):
Yeah I mean yes and that's true but I think it sort
of sells something I meaneventually people do have to me
you know plant tomatoes and havestores and things like that.
Like there's it's sort of I Idon't know I think it feeds
their that sense of anxiety thatoh I'm going to be an
entrepreneur and if I'm not thenI'm a failure at that too.
I mean I think there are somekids who will be successful at
(38:53):
that but the vast majority arestill going to have to take
those jobs that, you know, Imean they're not everybody can
be an entrepreneur I agree.
SPEAKER_04 (39:02):
And I and then I also worry I mean I have a son
who's an entrepreneur and Iworry about his 401 insurance
disability insurance.
They forget about all thatstuff.
SPEAKER_00 (39:13):
I I listen Ellen I agree with you that not everyone
can be an entrepreneur.
But the main thing is is that Ijust remember when I was younger
in my 20s I did not question anyanything of what I shon that and
part of why I didn't questionwas there were no other you know
(39:34):
the the path was so clear rightand and what happened with the
internet and and the wayinformation is seen because
young people don't seeinformation the same way that I
know I see information becauseonce upon a time you had to work
to get information.
You had to work to get knowledgeand experience from somebody.
(39:55):
And the world that we live intoday is anyone become become an
expert in something withoutreally ever having to work for
it or find it or find thatknowledge.
Right?
You can it's everything is soreadily available to people that
information has changed andconsiderably.
And so that's one of the thingsthat I see is when millennials
(40:18):
and Gen Zers they come into theworkplace you know they're not
they're not looking at theirbosses as that same thing of oh
I'm going to get informationfrom this person.
I want to take these crumbs fromyou.
You know they're looking therebecause they have information
they're looking for other thingsthey're looking for a
relationship and mentorship muchmore than I think I I ever did.
(40:39):
And so so much has changed inthat in that way.
And I don't know I I it will beinteresting to see what happens
with Gen Zers, like what theyend up doing, right?
Because we have this greatresignation and I see this
constantly and the big the bigthing is a lot of my clients
they don't like service servicejobs.
Any kind of waitressing orbartending or any of that
(41:02):
they're hard to fill these days.
And that is an area that a lotof young people are sort of
willing to make other sacrificesto not have to take those kinds
of jobs.
SPEAKER_03 (41:12):
Somebody's got to take those jobs who's going to
take them do you think I don'tknow I mean someone will.
When you answer that yeah whenyou answer that I mean it I mean
that it's interesting though butit because it's like are we all
just gonna not have restaurantsanymore?
Like is that sort of it's notjust restaurants.
I mean my feeling is that I meanwe should honor those
(41:34):
professions as opposed to youknow look at them with with sort
of disdain.
But that I think is agenerational difference that
we're talking about.
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (41:44):
We we've been talking about money a lot and we
don't have a whole lot moretime.
So I'd really like to hear fromyou Tess what other things do
you think are in the top of mindof the struggles with young
adults?
I mean I listed a few thingsthere seems to be a lot of
mother-daughter conflictunresolved childhood conflicts
anything that comes up in yourpractice where you see these are
things that you could share withour listeners that they should
(42:06):
pay attention to boundaries isanother big one.
Do they come very much talkingabout my mom's driving me crazy
or my dad's driving me crazy orhow do I separate?
What are some of the top thingsyou hear?
SPEAKER_00 (42:17):
It is a lot of the the relationship with the
parents because it used to bethat right that it was thought
of as the teenage years were theyears where you individuate and
you become your person and whoyou are and that's not true.
Like it is young adulthood,emerging adulthood when you
really start to understandyourself and understand your
opinions.
(42:37):
And so what a lot of is it's alot of parsing out for young
people of is this what I believeor is this what my parents
believe and told me I shouldbelieve right and that's a big
thing because especially when itcomes around a lot of parents
said to their kids like becomean accountant become a lawyer
become this become that you'llalways have a job it's a good
it's a good living you need towork hard and a lot of people
(43:01):
went out and did that theybecame lawyers they you know
they became accountants and thenthey're four or five years into
the job and they hate it.
You know they're reallymiserable.
So a lot of it is trying tounderstand for themselves with
their parents like how do Iforge my own path that is
different than what I was taughtand what I was told how do I how
(43:21):
do I do that?
But there's there's that partabout it and it's also and then
how do I make how do I declareand say I want to do this and
not disappoint my parents or notfreak out my parents because
you're younger and you you're anadult now and you can see things
a lot clearer a lot of timesyoung people are they're able to
sort of look back at theirparents whether their parents
(43:41):
got divorced or you know mom ordad had an affair or they had a
step parent that they didn'tlike, right?
You can go back and as an adultnow and look at your childhood
and look at those things andyou're trying to you know trying
to understand like your parentsand why they did what they did
and understand yourrelationship.
So there is that piece of it ofkids you know wanting answers
(44:03):
from their parents of like whydid you get divorced and why are
why you know why did you move orwhy did you leave or any of
these things.
So it's it's a lot of it's a lotof kind of trying to understand
yourself through your parents.
SPEAKER_04 (44:17):
That makes so much sense and I think what it opens
up to me is I think for ourlisteners being willing to talk
about those things.
I mean my daughter saidsomething to me recently I mean
you know she's a fourth yearresident she's working her buns
off and she says you know so andso just left early the other day
and said she was worn out.
And she said, you know, mom Iwish I could do that but you
(44:38):
just drilled into me not to quityou know and I felt so bad.
I mean I didn't feel bad and Iunderstood what I drilled into
her but I was glad she washaving those thoughts and
thinking for herself in thatway.
So I think being able to talkabout it is probably important.
SPEAKER_00 (44:51):
Do you agree?
Oh yeah absolutely and I thinkthe way you handled it was very
good because I think sometimesthere's this want of this want
to be defensive of yes youshouldn't quit.
Right.
You know I taught you that andthat's great.
And I too listen I I haveparents who um very much taught
myself and my sister you knowwork you know work hard and you
know excel and and all of thatand I too have those feelings
(45:15):
where it's like God I wish youtold me to take a vacation more.
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (45:18):
Well you know funny she says to me when I started
ballet you wouldn't let me quitwhen and I had no thoughts that
I was like that.
I thought she enjoyed everythingshe was doing.
SPEAKER_03 (45:27):
You know so I'm gonna just intercede here that
you know this is not necessarilyshameful to not be able to say
you know what I'm gonna pushthrough this.
I mean that's no no no you'reright Ellen you're right you're
right you're right instead ofwalks around the block.
I mean there there's a balancein here and I think we tend to
go one direction or the other.
You're absolutely right um andit it that's also like Katie
(45:48):
shouldn't feel bad because she'snot that other person.
That other person is a separateperson with different goals
different values.
SPEAKER_04 (45:54):
Right, right you're right and so but you know Ellen
I was glad she was thinkingabout it and making decisions
for herself.
She'll never be a quitter that'snot her personality but I'm glad
she's thinking about herself.
SPEAKER_00 (46:05):
And I think that what I was going to say was your
reaction to her was it doesn'tsound like you got defensive and
tried to you know put your standor sort of apologize.
I think it's important to sortof just take it in.
SPEAKER_03 (46:16):
Well I did apologize a little bit no no no she liked
ballet she liked it I didn'ttell you this with a 100%
certainty.
SPEAKER_00 (46:26):
I didn't just kidding and if you hadn't I mean
that's the other side of thecoin is that you you know had
you allowed her to quit a lot ofthings you'd have a different
you know a different you'reright there's a balance there's
absolutely you're right but I'msure those are the exact kind of
things they talk to Tess aboutthat's my guess yeah yeah yeah
(46:47):
being a parent myself and I'llalways say I always say this to
my clients or or to whomeverit's like the parents aren't the
enemy when I'm in the room withthem their parents are not their
enemy I'm a mother I know whatit's like and you there is no
way you get through parentingunscathed no way it is so hard
so so hard.
And so I think the best thingthat you can do for your kids is
(47:09):
to be able to write that wasthat was your daughter's
experience.
Her experience in her mind was Iwanted to quit ballet and mom
didn't so it's not about youdefending that experience or
apologizing for it or anythingof just saying you know I hear
you you know I I see you I hearyou and and I you know because
in the end I think that kidsjust want to be seen by their
(47:32):
parents for who they are andaccepted for who they are right.
That's the core of it.
SPEAKER_04 (47:37):
We hear that all the time from the young adults we
interview whatever the situationthey always hear their parents'
voice in their minds.
Yeah.
Okay we've been going on reallylong here and we've got to wrap
up but I promised I would askthis one listener question Tess
and it's a little bit in regardsto money.
So I'm gonna ask this questionand then we're gonna ask you to
give us our few takeaways forour listenership.
Unless Ellen do you haveanything else before I do this
(47:59):
no because I love this question.
SPEAKER_03 (48:01):
I'm glad you're getting to it because I actually
know a few people are havingtrouble getting their kids out
of the house.
SPEAKER_04 (48:06):
Yeah so the listener question was they have a young
adult daughter so she and herhusband have helping their young
adult daughter in the last fewyears after college to help her
get her feet on the ground.
And now she's moved in with herboyfriend.
And the parents feel that theirsupport should stop but don't
know how to approach it withtheir adult child.
What should their steps be orhow would you address this?
SPEAKER_00 (48:27):
Well I think first the parents have to get on the
same page about what they feelcomfortable doing.
Like you know if they're both aton the same page of we really
need to we don't want to supporther any longer then what I would
do is I would go to her and Iwould put together a plan.
You know you don't want tospring it on them like we're
cutting you off.
You know see but you you want tobe able to go to her and say hey
(48:50):
you know we've been supportingyou we're we feel like we've
done enough we can't do thisanymore however you want to
phrase it and just say okay sowe're gonna put together a plan
for the next six months you knowand we can do it in a couple
different ways we can slowlystop 10 by 10% each month or
every you know whatever it is wecan slowly give you less and
(49:11):
less money or I we can or we cansay you know at the end of the
six months you we're giving yousix months warning we're gonna
stop supporting you at all.
I would go and I would just saythis is the plan.
This is what we're doing.
And you know if your kid comesback at you and being like oh my
God I can't I can't I can't putit back on them and say okay you
(49:31):
need to tell us exactly whereyou're where if if you want our
financial support you need totell us what you need
specifically and where it'sgonna go.
We're not gonna just blanketgive you money because I have a
lot of I hear this all the timelike the kids get on the cell
phone family plan, right?
And the parents just keep payingfor it or sometimes they'll pay
for insurance or healthinsurance because they're
(49:53):
worried about it.
That's why I'm saying you andyour partner have to kind of get
on the same page of listen, wewant to cut her off but we're
worried about the healthinsurance.
So let's just keep paying that.
We'll tell her this right thetwo of you want to make sure
that you know what you want andthen just go and tell them like
this is what's going to happen.
And if you if something needs tobe different, you need to come
(50:13):
back to me and tell them us whatis the plan and what is your
plan for eventually becomingfinancially free.
SPEAKER_04 (50:23):
You know like you can't we can't we're not gonna
pay this bill in perpetuityright you know I love the way
you said that you know because Ihad a situation um and it was
again the generation before minewhere the parents basically
supported their young adultchild through his marriage with
the kids never asking where thatmoney was going to and I thought
(50:43):
my gosh the parents are like youknow giving them everything.
So I love the idea of saying youknow if you continue to need it
let us know where it's going.
SPEAKER_00 (50:51):
Yeah yeah that's a good that's a good phrase.
SPEAKER_04 (50:53):
Good.
So anyway I really appreciatethat.
Now Tess before we end we alwaysask for a few takeaways you're
talking to our adult parentswhat are the two or three things
that you really want ouraudience to remember and think
about so if you have a child whois calling you constantly
wanting you to solve everysingle problem and you don't
know how to stop then it's timefor you to set a boundary.
SPEAKER_00 (51:15):
And the easiest way of doing that is stop solving
their problems and when you geton the phone or text you only
ask questions.
You always put things back onthem.
How do you think you should dothat?
What do you think you shouldsay?
Number two is be aware that theworld is very very different now
and that your kids are goingthrough something that is very
(51:38):
different.
Even if it feels like hey it'sthe same stuff I went through it
is all new to them.
It is all new to them.
They don't know yet so whensomeone doesn't know what do you
do do you shame them?
No you recognize and understandit and help guide them through
and that finally the core thingis your kid your children just
(52:00):
want you to love them and acceptthem for who they are.
So always when you walk into anydifficult conversation or get on
the phone with them or anythingjust keep that in mind.
Like my child wants me to lovethem and recognize them for who
they are today.
And it may not be what youwanted or what you planned but
(52:22):
that's being a parent.
Yeah that's such such animportant thing to remember
that's the hard part too aboutbeing a parent.
SPEAKER_04 (52:28):
Tess this has been wonderful I think what you're
doing and the audience thatyou've gravitated to is
wonderful.
You'll help so many people andI'm glad you had a terrible time
in LA so thank you so so muchfor joining us today.
Oh absolutely thank you forhaving me so that's a wrap
(52:54):
thanks Tess so much for yourinsight into our young adult
children and some of thestruggles that they face that we
might not quite understand.
I think we all know that everygeneration has their own hurdles
and as Tess said in the end it'sreally about loving our kids for
who they are.
That really seems like just thedefinition of parenting.
(53:16):
After the interview I thoughtabout my father who loved his
job so much he was able toinvolve all of us in his job and
kind of became a family affair.
In the end I'm glad he droveinto me the value of hard work I
do believe it's still veryimportant.
Anyway learn more about Tess andher practice by visiting
(53:38):
testbringhamcoaching.com at TestT-S Brigham R-I-G-H-A-M-Coaching
dot com she also offers a numberof books like a radically
practical guide to life in yourtwenties and some online courses
to help young adults find theirtrue selves, set goals and make
(54:01):
some of those important lifedecisions.
Go to her website and you'llfind a link to her courses and
her books.
It might be something you'llwant to share with your young
adult children.
Thanks again to Connie Fisher,our audio engineer and to you
all of our listeners.
Check out our social media sitesand you'll find the link to buy
our new bite your tongue muglet's spread the word.
(54:24):
And finally remember sometimesyou just have to bite your
tongue
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