December 27, 2024 • 45 mins
Are you missing the signs? Do you really know how your adult child feels and are you ready to begin to mend a fractured relationship? In this episode, we sit down with Sally Harris, to explore the nuances of maintaining strong, healthy relationships with adult children. From navigating differing values to addressing estrangement, Sally shares practical advice and strategies for parents striving to build deeper connections while respecting boundaries.
Here are some of the things we discuss:
- Recognizing the Parent-Child Dynamic
- Prioritizing Self-Care
- Mastering Effective Communication
- Offering Support Without Judgment
- Embracing Differing Values
- Focusing on Your Role
Huge thank you to Connie Gorant Fisher, our audio engineer.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of
Bite your Tongue, the podcast.
I'm Denise and I'm here with myco-host, kirsten.
Today we're talking with a momof an adult child who's traveled
a very difficult road.
She says on her websitesally-harriscom, by the way that
while her daughter's life spunout of control, hers was doing
(00:42):
the same.
Now, mind you, she's not acertified therapist.
She's a mom who has really beenin the trenches.
She suffered a decade ofaddiction, depression and
anxiety.
She also understands that notwo situations are alike, but
one thing she says that's alwaysthe same is a mother's heart,
and I'm going to add a father'sheart too heart, and I'm going
(01:06):
to add a father's heart too.
We hope to hear a bit about herjourney and get some tips for
keeping our relationships withour adult children intact while
still living our own lives.
She deals quite a bit withestrangement and we've covered a
lot of that.
So today we're hoping to talkabout recognizing the cues in
your relationship and, like ourpodcast says, build healthy
relationships with our adultkids.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, we recently recorded an episode with Tess
Brigham and asked a lot oflistener questions.
It was interesting because thiswas a common theme, both
estrangement, the fear ofabandonment, as well as being
abandoned.
Sally, welcome, can you share alittle bit about your journey
for our listeners and how youdecided to reach out and try to
help others?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Absolutely Well.
Thank you for having me firstof all Appreciate that.
So you know, like Denise said,I'm a mom who walked a difficult
road with my own daughter forover a decade, and I always say
when her life spiraled, so didmine, and it does not have to be
that way.
But at the time I didn't knowhow to cope and so I just went
(02:10):
into the pit.
I ended up becoming analcoholic.
I had become very unhealthy andI had gained 70 pounds.
I was just extremely unhealthyand a diagnosis is what actually
turned me around.
But I now have eight years ofsobriety and, for the record, I
am reconciled with my daughter.
She has been back in the familyfor about four years.
(02:32):
So great, that's a hugeblessing.
Yeah, that's great, but itreally boils down to I fully
believe that we're bestpositioned to serve the person
we once were.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Say that one more time.
I missed what you said.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I think we are best positioned to serve the person
we once were.
So I was that mom.
So when you ask why I starteddoing this, is I wanted to be
the person that I didn't have.
I didn't have that supportsystem, don't get me wrong.
I had friends, I had familyaround me, but I had nobody that
(03:07):
had gone through it.
So everyone has great adviceand you take it all, you kind of
muddle through it, but at theend of the day, I had no
guidance, and so that's reallywhat I was lacking.
So that's why I do what I donow.
What I was lacking.
So that's why I do what I donow.
I started locally, in my home,in a group setting back in
(03:28):
2016-ish, serving moms who wereestranged, and at that time I
was still on the journey myself,and I started my YouTube
channel about four and a halfyears ago, and now I do
one-on-one and group coachingfor moms specifically.
But I love how you includeddads in this, because they're
hurting too.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
It's interesting the way you said your life spun out
of control.
I think that's true for I mean,at least for me.
I can only identify as a mom.
But when my child hurts,whether they were a kid or an
adult, I think I hurt more.
I hate to say that, but it'sbecause I have no control.
I don't know what they're doing.
I can't make any progress forthem.
(04:05):
Does that make sense?
I'm hoping they get out ofwhatever it is and I hope we're
gonna talk more about that.
We're gonna talk about theworry and all that sort of thing
.
But I wanna ask you so thiswhole issue of building healthy
relationships with your adultkids seems to be top of mind
lately.
I mean, we started our podcastlike three years ago.
People weren't talking too muchabout it.
You have nearly 20,000followers on your YouTube
(04:28):
channel and your shorts, inparticular, I think, are really
good.
What's changed that this ishappening?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah, and like you say, I'm not a certified
therapist.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
No, no, I know that.
We said that right up front.
We said that right up front.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
So I just wanted to reiterate that.
So when I answer your question,you know I feel like some of it
is culture, society.
We can't seem to agree todisagree anymore.
We used to be able to havedifferent opinions on things and
then just know that.
You know, that's just not atopic we go, that we discuss and
it wasn't really a big deal.
(05:02):
Nowadays, if you don't agree,it doesn't matter what the topic
is.
There seems to be a completedisconnect and nobody is willing
to agree to disagree, and Ialso think the mental health
issue is definitely on the rise.
One thing that I see a lot andI can tell you from firsthand
experience with this as well,which is why I reiterated that
(05:22):
I'm not a therapist I have hadtons from firsthand experience
with this as well, which is whyI reiterated that I'm not a
therapist.
I have had tons of therapy.
Don't get me wrong.
I've had trauma therapy.
I think that makes you atherapist.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
but anyway, go ahead.
No, we're very clear on that.
You're a mother who's walked inthe trenches, has learned a lot
, but you've also talked to alot of people, you see the
climate.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
So what I was going to say about that was what I see
over and over, and I'm notsaying every therapist is this
way, but what happens is thesekids will go seek therapy and
they're being told to cut offthe family.
My best thought on that isanytime I have a client who
thinks that they need to go seesome, see a therapist, or they
want to try to do therapy withtheir child, by all means, if
(06:03):
that's what you want to do,absolutely do it.
But make sure that you're withsomebody whose goal is to
reconcile the family.
It doesn't mean there's nottimes where people do need to
like okay, this is kind ofreally toxic, they're super
disrespectful one way or theother parent or child and
there's a time where you're likeI gotta, I gotta put some
boundaries up here because thisis killing me, like this is
(06:25):
really hard.
So in those cases, absolutelythere's a time, but I don't
believe it should ever beforever, because forever is a
long time, sally we interviewedJoshua Coleman.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
You've probably read his book.
He came out with one of thesefirst books you and your Adult
Child.
He said something very similarto this that so many therapists
they're literally helping themwrite the letter.
And I thought and I saidafterwards, kirsten and I were
like why aren't people sayinglet's bring your parents in here
, let's talk about this, let'sfigure out how to?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
reconcile Right Exactly, and that's what's so
painful is because it's only onesided.
So while I am serving the momsand granted, you could say
that's one sided too, becauseI'm not hearing the child's
perspective but my goal and Ireally I try to stay middle
ground there.
Sometimes it's really obviouswhat's going on one way or the
other, but for the most part wetry to look at the fact that our
(07:16):
kids have perspectives too.
We don't have to agree withthem, but they're going to have
their own perception of whathappened that day or the
argument that happened, orwhatever the case may be.
But it doesn't mean theirperception is wrong.
It's their reality, whether welike it or not.
Let's meet somewhere in themiddle and try to reconcile
these families, because that'sthe goal for me anyway, that's
my goal, and to do that I haveto get these moms healthy, or or
(07:38):
it's never going to happen.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
That's exactly right.
So that leads right into thenext question.
I watched the video that youtalked about how to let go of
your adult kids.
I loved what you said there.
You said it's not about lettinggo and moving on from them, but
about moving forward in yourown life.
So talk about that a little bit, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Well, I think most moms can agree that we do the
best we can with our kids.
We raise them where they'relike our everything and we kind
of put our own lives on hold andthen, before we know it,
they're adults and we're likewait a minute, where'd they go?
Or these issues start happeningas teens and we don't know how
to handle it because we havelost ourself in the process.
We are so codependent on beinga mom and having that
(08:21):
relationship with the son ordaughter or multiple kids, even
where we lose our own identity.
Being a mom is like one of Idon't know, it's one of my
favorite titles, besides being agam.
I don't know which one's better, but I love being a gam.
But you're a mom, you might be awife, you're a friend, you're a
daughter, you're all theseother things, but the only thing
(08:42):
we focus on is being a mom.
And when this estrangementhappens or just a rocky
relationship and we don't knowhow to handle it, we lose
ourself and we fall into thispit, like I did because I didn't
have the control, like youmentioned earlier.
I really think that we nurtureand love, but we forget about
ourselves.
I think that's where it starts.
So that's what I do now ishelping these moms figure out
(09:06):
what brings you joy.
You can be a mom and still taketime for yourself, and so I
love that we're having thisproactive conversation, kind of
because it's so important,because if I would have known
what to do back then, oh mygoodness, I think I could have
had a faster outcome as well,just because I wouldn't have
made as many mistakes.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Well, I think you know we all, we know we all make
mistakes, or nobody gives us amanual when we have kids.
So you talk a lot aboutreleasing that guilt that comes
from having made those mistakes.
We all do.
We all look back and think, ohgosh, if I'd just done this
differently, would this kid bebetter off or worse off or
whatever.
How do you release that guilt?
What do you do?
(09:47):
What do you tell parents tohelp them with that piece?
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Because that's huge, it's a big, it's a big deal for
all of us, even moms who aren'tgoing through strained
relationships, absolutely, Imean, I don't have strained
relationships.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
So if your kid doesn't call, I think that you
think, whatever choices they'remaking, you think, oh, if I
would have done that differentanyway.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Absolutely.
I think it starts withself-awareness versus starts
with acceptance, because wecan't change the past.
None of us can, no matter what.
That is one thing you cannotchange, but the self-awareness
of knowing that, okay, did I dothe best I could with what I
knew at the time.
Most moms can say yes to that.
There might've been a few timeswhere you're like that was not
(10:29):
so smart, I probably shouldn'thave done that.
But at the end of the day, wehave conversations with our kids
and someone raised their voiceor somebody got mad or whatever
the case may be, and you hadthat guilt about a conversation.
You could have a guilt aboutthe I got divorced or I didn't
get divorced.
I hear both sides of that.
There's just so many things,but it really boils down to
(10:49):
knowing that we can't change thepast and controlling your
thoughts, because how do you?
control your thoughts.
You have to take hold of them,because life and death is in the
power of the tongue First ofall, and we, even the way we
speak to ourselves.
People forget about that.
Like, the way we speak to oneanother is one thing, but what
are you saying to yourself?
(11:10):
We never keep promises toourselves.
We try really hard and we wantto honor everybody else, but we
don't honor ourselves.
And this isn't about beingselfish or anything like that.
It's about just being a whole,healed, healthy person which,
trust me, I had to revamp thatwhole scenario.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah, I mean, I also went to a therapist who made me
say into the mirror everymorning I'm a wonderful person
or something.
We have this phrase and I wouldsay to him I can't say it
because I don't believe it.
They'd say I'm a something,something, something I'm like,
oh, come on, what am I going tosay this to myself for?
But I think that really makes adifference, doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Yeah, those are like affirmations, right, just like
anything else you would say toyourself positively.
You probably aren't going tobelieve it in the beginning, but
the more you speak it, you will.
I always look at it like wehave a choice.
I can focus on the negativeaspect of what my child is doing
and it's really bothering meand I'm worried for them of what
my child is doing and it'sreally bothering me and I'm
worried for them, and I justfocus on the negative and I
focus on an outcome that I don'teven have any proof is gonna
(12:09):
happen, but I focus there anyway.
That's what happens a lot.
I did the same thing To thepoint where I planned my
daughter's funeral.
I was so convinced and I had tobe prepared because I had to be
in control of that, and at thatpoint in time I hadn't lost
anyone.
I had not, other than mygrandma when I was a kid, and so
(12:30):
I was like, how does this work?
And we had a friend that ownedthe funeral home in town, so I
went to her and I was like,please just walk me through this
.
What happened?
And now I'm like, oh my gosh.
So I was literally claiming that, okay, your daughter, my
daughter, is going to pass andI'm going to get this horrible
phone call Right.
And it was devastating to evengo through that process and I
(12:52):
look back now I'm thinking, whydid I do that way from me and I
was letting my thoughts controlher destiny, and mine really,
and I was just had it allplanned out to the point where I
even took action, which isreally scary.
But I always ask people likewhen, with your thoughts, like,
what proof do you have?
Do you have any proof that whatyou're catastrophizing is
(13:15):
actually going to happen?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Ooh, I like that.
Why do we catastrophize?
Cause we've talked about thisbefore.
I definitely will go to theglasses doesn't even have any
water, I'll find the worst thingthat might happen.
My husband says to me why doyou always think the worst?
Why do we catastrophize?
Am I saying that word right?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I know that's a big one, right?
Yeah, I know I think a lot ofit for me.
I'm not sure about for you, butfor me it was.
I had a lot of bad thingshappen in my life and so I just
expected that negative outcome.
Sometimes I think we we try toprotect ourselves.
Like well, if I plan on theworst thing, then anything
better than that will be okay.
Yeah, but I don't think that'sand I get the mentality when you
like logically, but I don'tthink it does anything to serve
(14:04):
your health or your mind.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
So let's go back to what you said about the tongue.
I want you to say that again Ithink it was the positive or
negative because our tonguesalso play a lot.
Well, we call this bite yourtongue.
Our tongues also play a bigpart in our relationship with
our adult kids, because we hadone guest say a parent's voice
comes to the child like amegaphone and we have to be very
(14:29):
careful and very thoughtfulwith our approach.
So I want to hear a little bitmore about that, if you don't
mind or if you can.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, do you mean like life and death is in the
power of the tongue?
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Yeah, that's what you said.
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (14:40):
exactly to you.
Well, to me it means we eitherbreathe life or death into
people Our words have so muchpower into.
Like I could say something toyou positively, so when you
think of me, I might've made you, I complimented you, or I
might've made you feel positiveor good about yourself, right?
Or if we had a negativeinteraction, when you think of
(15:02):
me, that's what you're going toremember.
So that whole megaphone I'veheard that too many times and it
could be positive or negative,like, oh yeah, I can hear my
grandma or I can hear my mom,but then oh, I can hear my mom
or dad, right, and it's justwhatever.
It's almost like whatever voiceis the loudest sometimes, and I
(15:24):
don't mean that in a good waybut like whatever they hear the
most of.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
So give us some advice then, for parents to be
have the tongue, have life.
How do we couch our comments,or do we not say what's on our
mind?
Do we bite our tongues all thetime?
How do we forge a more positive?
Just catching them being good,just like we used to when they
were little?
Anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yeah, number one literally is I mean we used to
when they were little.
Anyway, go ahead.
Yeah, number one literally is Imean we need to think before we
talk.
So many of us just talk and wedon't listen anymore and that's
a huge piece, and I know youwanted to go into about
communication too, but reallyand we'll get to that, yeah,
cause that is such the core ofeverything but thinking before
you talk, because if you thinkof it like, this is kind of a
(16:04):
different example, but I canremember Dr Phil used to say and
this would be more for, like,when your kids are younger but
are you, are you tattling tohelp that person?
Are you tattling to hurt thatperson?
So every time you speak tosomeone, are you doing that to
help them?
Are you doing that to hurt them?
And sometimes, when we hurtpeople, including our own kids,
we're doing it out of our ownpain that I don't think has been
(16:26):
healed and, trust me, I've hadto do a lot of work on myself
with that.
We've all got stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Can you use an example of tattling for good and
tattling for bad for our adultkids?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, so for example, like if you are, if you catch
them doing something, like youhad said earlier, if you catch
them doing something good andnot like in a mother child way,
because we're talking aboutadult children and maybe older
teens or whatnot but if youcatch them, just let them know
that you're proud of them.
(16:57):
Just reinforce the good and tryto stay away from the negative,
because we can always take anegative and turn it to good.
Right, give us an example.
So if you were to say, if youwere to catch your child let's
say they're living at home andthey don't get up in the morning
, you go in the room and you'relike see, I told you, look at
(17:19):
that.
This is the third day in a row.
You haven't gotten up.
What am I going to do with you?
You're worthless, you're this,you're that because some parents
talk to their kids that way and, first of all, depending on the
age we're talking about here,but if we're talking about adult
children, in my opinion youshouldn't even be waking them up
.
They're old enough to make thatchoice.
So that, right, there is anexample of how stay in your own
(17:41):
lane.
I know that, like in thatsituation, it's hard because
they're in your home.
It'd be different if they hadtheir own place and they weren't
getting up for work and youdidn't know about it, right, so
it's a little bit harder, but atthe same time, it's not your
responsibility.
I work a lot onself-responsibility and what is
what is the parent'sresponsibility at this point in
the game?
As a parent, our roles shiftand too many of us including
(18:05):
myself, I didn't shift that roleat a younger teen age and start
letting them make mistakeswhile they're still under my
roof, where you can guide themand help them.
So many kids are stifled.
And then they go off to collegeand they start.
They go crazy because they get.
They're like I've got freedom,I've got freedom, but nobody's
there to rein them in and guidethem.
(18:25):
That makes perfect sense.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
You have to give them a long leash to kind of mess
things up while they're underyour and while the consequences
for the most part are small, asopposed to once they are adults
making those decisions.
Do they even know whatconsequences are and how you
deal with that?
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Let's go through.
I read that one blog post andthat's the one I want to
concentrate on.
I think it's the one calledEffective Strategies for Healing
and Strengthening Relationshipswith Our Adult Children, and
we're going to focus on thestrengthening part.
One of the first things youmentioned is effective
communication.
How can we effectivelycommunicate without feeling
judgy?
Because I think they do hearthings differently.
(19:09):
We try so hard and we've got toround our corner in when we're
talking to them, and it doestake work.
A lot of parents of adult kidsthat I talk to say well, I'm
their parent, I can say whateverI want, and I think to myself
no, you better think twice.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I know, I know it's almost like an ownership thing
that I think some people feelwhen they're an infant yeah,
that's, it's 100% you.
You have to do that, but thenwe have to outgrow that.
As far as communication, Ithink one of the biggest things
that I don't see moms doing thatI teach repeatedly is realizing
(19:44):
that your kids have aperspective too.
But starts up here, so you andI we could be in the same room.
We have this, we're in the sameconversation, things were said,
done, whatever.
You have your perception ofwhat happened and they have
theirs.
So that's usually when some ofthe collision happens is because
(20:05):
they think oh see, you don'tunderstand, you don't listen to
me, because sometimes the mom ordad would be so hard pressed to
say, well, no, that's not howit happened, and they might be
right, but it doesn't matter,it's not about being right, it's
about okay, that was myperception of what happened and
your perception is your reality,right?
(20:27):
So the child could say well, no, I heard mom say X, y, z and
you could be like well, I know,I didn't, that's not how I meant
it.
Well, that's in their mind.
There's that megaphone, maybe,maybe, and having that memory of
what that conversation lookedlike.
And sometimes it's those.
I don't want to say small,because they're not small, but
(20:49):
the problem is when theycompound.
That's when estrangementhappens.
A lot of it.
There's lots of reasons, but wehave to know that we don't have
to agree with them, them wedon't have to think like them,
but we have to, in my opinion,honor their perception of
(21:10):
whatever it is.
If you want to have arelationship with them, if you
don't want to have arelationship with them, then you
, you know, carry on like it.
But if you want to change thatseriously because I just see it
so much, it just breaks my heart.
It's sometimes, if you're, ifthey're willing to have a
conversation with you, and youchange the way you communicate,
it's much, it just breaks myheart.
It's sometimes, if you're, ifthey're willing to have a
conversation with you, and youchange the way you communicate,
it's amazing how that solvesproblems.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
If something like that happened and you're in the
room and they perceive itdifferently and they get angry
and you don't want to go into?
He said.
She said, I imagine what's yourresponse.
You know, I'm so glad to hearyour perspective.
It gives me a new understandingof this conversation, or what
would be my response to get outof that, not have to prove my
point but leave me with someself-respect.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Right.
Well, usually many times, rightafter that conversation or
during that conversation, someit gets heated and someone
leaves.
So when you come back together,because it may not happen at
that moment, sometimes that'sgood.
People need to calm down andwhatever.
But when you come back together, another thing that I would say
is make sure that it's a goodtime for both of you.
(22:14):
It may sound silly, but a lot oftimes moms I see, will and I
used to do the same thing I justassume, like this is a good
time for me, so let's just havethis conversation.
They may not be in the headspacefor it, they are not in the
mood for it, they're notprepared, so then they react and
it just starts all over again.
But also a lot of our kidswould prefer to text through
(22:36):
some of these things, and I knowthat might not be our motive.
Most, you know, moms, that'snot our preferred mode, but
sometimes you know I mean, I'veseen moms do text, I've seen
moms do email and it gives youan option to pause, where it's
not so difficult to bite yourtongue because you're not face
(22:57):
to face and you can reallyreally think through your
responses and you can hear theirresponses by reading them and
really thinking about them andlike, okay, well, okay, I get
that, you know.
Or even if you don't get it,and like, okay, well, okay, I
get that, you know.
Or even if you don't get it,it's okay.
I think so many times and alsolike society, culture, we have
to be right, we don't have to beright.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I think that's the critical thing, because I'm a
little bit.
I have to be right and I'vereally learned that because
usually I'm not Right.
Yeah, that's a really goodpoint.
So when you open up thatconversation again, how would
you open up the conversationafter you both stormed out for
fear of they left really mad atyou.
They might not want to hearfrom you.
How do you open thatconversation again?
Speaker 3 (23:39):
I think the best way to is to ask them.
However you're going tocommunicate with them is ask
them to schedule that time.
When is a good time for us tosit down?
Maybe it's not in the sameplace that the fight happened,
so maybe it's not at home.
Do you want to go to coffee?
Do you want to whatever?
Find a time place that works.
I think it's crucial that, eventhough, like in this case,
we're talking about adultchildren yeah, always adult
(24:02):
children.
Yeah, okay, even though you'rean adult and the child's an
adult, we're still mom.
I feel like we need to set thestage, even if we were the one
that was wrong or maybe weweren't wrong, but we still.
I feel like it's ourresponsibility because we're the
parent, and not in a hierarchyway, but just like a respect,
way to honor them and just belike okay, I want to hear what
(24:23):
you have to say.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
I agree with that.
I think we've said this beforetake the high road.
Don't become a little kid Inmany ways, even though they're
adult kids, sometimes thatinteraction does become
parent-child and I think it isour job to take the high road
when we can.
And it's hard sometimes becauseyou're used to being in charge
and you're no longer in charge.
They're in charge of themselves.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
The other thing with texting or email that you
brought up is that you also, asyou're reading back what you're
writing, sometimes you get whythey responded the way they did,
and that also creates anotheropening for you to say you know
what?
I need to hear you out becauseI can see where you heard this.
(25:09):
I think it's a great tool.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
One of our interviews and I tell everyone to listen
to her, dr Susan Heitler shealways says agree and I agree,
and the minute they hear I agree, it backs everyone down.
So even if you have acompletely different opinion,
you say I agree, and I'd love todiscuss that more.
I think her example was yourkid says I hated the way you
(25:34):
raised me.
You weren't a good parent.
You guys got divorced.
You ignored me.
Whatever it might be, I agree,it's really difficult to raise
children.
I'd love to hear more aboutwhat you're thinking about
rather than.
I tried my best, you know, blah, blah, blah, and that's really
a lot of what you're saying.
You have to take the high road.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
The defenses right.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
The second factor you mentioned are differing values.
Now, this is a hard one.
How do you bite your tonguewhen you watch your children
choose paths so different fromyours, so different than how
they were raised?
We just accept and bite ourtongues.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah, that is hard.
It gets your heart, yourmother's heart, your father's
heart.
It can break your heartAbsolutely.
I went through a lot of thismyself too, but we raise our
kids with values that areimportant to us, that we think
are important, right, Obviously,that we think are positive, or
we likely wouldn't have raisedthem that way, Whether we were
(26:32):
right, wrong or indifferent.
That's just that's what wechose.
That's our parental obligationis to try to raise them up well.
So what happens?
What I see is the values changebecause of a lot of it is the
culture, a lot of it's society.
I feel like there's less valuethan there used to be.
(26:52):
It's almost like they don'tvalue morals as much not all,
and a lot of it.
Addiction has a lot to do withit.
I think you know we always talkabout drugs and alcohol, but I
work with a lot of moms who alsohave their sons mostly sons,
not that there couldn't bedaughters, but gaming addictions
Ooh, I never thought about that.
(27:13):
Yeah, yeah, One of the biggestmistakes is whatever value and
I'm not talking about addictionhere, but they're differing
values.
Like you say, when do you biteyour tongue, Honestly, if you
want to have a relationshipuntil they're ready to talk
about it, want to have arelationship until they're ready
to talk about it.
We have to agree to disagreethere, because otherwise the
(27:34):
family is going to be tore apart, Because if you don't, then
it's just going to be constantchaos, right?
I truly believe I see a lot ofmoms make the mistake of well, I
did not raise them that way.
I don't agree with that.
They want to cut the child off.
Well, you have a choice.
You can do that if that's whatyou want to do, or you have to
(27:55):
love them through it, Cause alot of these are phases I've
seen it as in a phase and also Ialso believe that you raise
children a certain way and ifit's positive, right.
If it's a good, healthy, like, alot of times they come back to
it.
They're trying to seek themtheir own identity out and
figure out who they are, andthey don't want us to impose on
them exactly what they shouldbelieve or what they what they
(28:18):
like.
Or mom said, I always likepizza.
Well, maybe I don't like pizza.
Just as an example, they'rejust so tired of parents telling
them how they should act, whatthey should say, where they
should work, where they shouldgo to school, all the things.
So, honestly, loving them wherethey're at, no matter what it
is, is golden.
(28:39):
It really is, Because as soonas they feel judged by you,
they're gone.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I agree on the phases , that these are phases and even
from the time they're tiny allthe way as adults I'm seeing
that continue to play out, wherethey've got some idea in their
head that they're holding strongto.
And six months down the roadthat softened a little bit and
the next thing, you know, notreally there anymore.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
And I think if you fight it it might not soften as
much, because they're going toput their arms up.
They don't want to be us anddid you want to be your parent?
No, you want to forge your ownway and we have to give them
some space to forge their ownway.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
That goes into a little bit of the life
transitions.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, let's move to that yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Who they, who they choose to be with.
It's that same idea, Like if Iembrace the person that they've
chosen, regardless of how I feel, then they are forced to have
to look at that relationshipthemselves in a different way.
And so you know you talk about,like the altered family
dynamics.
Can you tell us more about thatand what our role is to help
(29:47):
support them during thesechanges?
And not just, not just dating,but you know, marriage and birth
and divorce?
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Well, divorce and divorce, I mean, that's another
thing.
They're going through a divorce, they lose their job.
We don't want to say, well, youwere sleeping in all the time,
you never got there on time.
How do we support Right?
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Always bumps in the road Always bumps in the road.
As far as the marriage piece,like we get to choose who we
marry.
Like our parents didn't decidewho we married.
They may have been happy aboutit or maybe not.
They may have said something ormaybe not.
But one thing that I think iscrucial is a lot of times
parents will say oh, I didn'tlike, I said, I didn't raise
(30:23):
them that way.
Well, we are the biggestinfluence on our children
through grade school.
We're not the biggest influenceanymore.
Our children through gradeschool, then their peers are not
the biggest influence anymore.
There's a lot of louderinfluences now, including social
media and all of that that theyhave to navigate so we can
instill the values as best wecan.
(30:44):
And then what we need to do, inmy opinion, is support them in
the way that they need.
What we need to do, in myopinion, is support them in the
way that they need.
So ask them.
We assume as moms that, well,this relationship is not going
to be good for her or him, so weneed to make a plan.
How is she going to get out ofthis?
All you're going to do isdivide your family and again
(31:06):
loving them through it.
You don't have to agree andit's really around asking them.
Just come right out and askthem I know this is a difficult
time for you.
Maybe they're having marriagetroubles and you just want to
jump right in and fix as bestyou can.
What if we just ask them, likeI know this is a hard time.
How can I help you?
How can I support you?
What do you need from me?
(31:27):
They'll tell you.
If they don't, as long as theydon't feel judged you.
What do you need from me?
They'll tell you if they don't,as long as they don't feel
judged it really go back to that.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
I have a little bit of a question on this that just
popped into my head.
When there are other siblingsand this kind of situation comes
up, how do you support thesiblings who may agree with you
and want to change the situationso badly?
I mean, do you say to them youknow what I'm suggesting, that
you bite your tongue, right, ordo you just really stay out of
it?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
I mean have the other siblings stay out of it or bite
their tongue.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, yeah, because when the siblings see what
you're seeing and they'reworried about their brother or
their sister, how do you alsosupport them through these life
transitions, when their theirfears of losing their sibling
are pretty prominent?
Yeah, how do you support them?
Speaker 3 (32:24):
I think it's the same way as in what you're doing,
Although the siblings sometimesnot always, but they have a
different relationship that'swhat I was thinking Brother or
sister than you have.
You kind of have to leave it upto them.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Right, I wouldn't get involved.
That's their relationship.
I mean, it'd be terrible ifthey became estranged because of
it, but that's their journey.
So I really like this part onaligning expectations, because
this is a big one.
Your kid's born and they'regoing to be president or CEO or
they're going to you know.
All of a sudden they aren'tliving up to everything that you
(32:59):
thought they were going to be.
Now I always say to peoplewhere you're not CEO, you're not
president.
Why do we have these overexaggerated expectations of our
children?
Speaker 3 (33:10):
One of my favorite topics.
It reminds me of the Hallmarkmovies.
If you watch Hallmark, wherethe dad wants the son to be the
CEO of his, of the familycompany and he wants to go farm
out in the Midwest or something,and he's like, dad, I don't
want to own that.
And then there's this bigstrife.
But then once the dad or momsits and listens to the kid at
(33:31):
the end and they're like oh, Ididn't know, your heart wasn't
in it.
Well, why didn't you just tellme?
Well, I tried because theyweren't listening.
Yeah, they weren't listening.
So I don't know.
I always think of that becausewe have these expectations.
There are expectations of, likeyou said, be president or be
the you president, or take overthe family business, and a lot
of that is different cultures tohave that where there's these
(33:53):
very high expectations of doingcertain things.
I've been honored to work withwomen from a lot of different
cultures.
They've had to make thedecision to break through some
of that if they wanted arelationship, because we're all
humans, right, there's stillthat pull and so it doesn't
matter where we come from.
I really think that ourexpectations have to align with
(34:17):
where the reality is when wehave these super high
expectations where our kids arestruggling, but yet we still
have this high expectation ofpresident.
Maybe they're they're dabblingwith drugs and we still have the
high expectation.
Well, why are you not enrollingin college?
And they're just struggling,trying to get through addiction.
Sometimes it's culture,sometimes it is financial,
(34:39):
sometimes it's just more of animage.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah, I think sometimes it's what your friends
think.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Yeah, keeping up with the Joneses right when you sit
down with friends, friends.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
The first thing they say is what are your kids doing
exactly?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
we need a new response to that, yeah, we do
need a new response to that, Iactually just you just say that
you know what, they're happy andthey're healthy, and that's all
I need to know absolutely, andyou know, and there's same thing
when, when a mom is is havingtrouble with their child, and
whether they're estranged orit's just rocky.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
that is something that I always teach too.
It's like whether it's aholiday family get together or a
family reunion or a wedding, oryou're someplace and everyone's
like, oh, how's Susie?
Well, it just makes you want tobreak down.
You have to have that one lineanswer and you're going to have
some people that are intrusiveand just want to gossip.
You don't owe those peopleanything.
That's my opinion.
(35:33):
You don't.
You have to keep your circlesmall.
Who's going to love you throughthis, help you through this
without judgment, because thelast thing you need is judgment
If you're trying to heal yourpart in this, because we all
play a part.
So, absolutely.
It's funny you say that, denise, because you're like oh, how's
Susie doing?
Or how are your kids?
What are they up to?
People always refer to the job.
(35:56):
What do they do?
Always.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Or they'll say are they married or whatever, but
usually it's the job.
What are they doing?
Where are they living?
Always.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Right, but but just having that one line answer.
Or, like you said, kirsten,she's doing really good, she's
loving living in Montana and she, she's happy, she's thriving
period.
You don't have to go on.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, it makes me sad when they were little and
you're struggling with pottytraining.
It's too bad.
We can't be honest, becausethere'd be a lot of support that
mothers and fathers could giveeach other If you could say he's
found this job, he reallydoesn't like it, we really got
into drugs, we're working on it,he's in rehab and you don't
feel like a failure.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Like you said, the reason you're great at what you
do is because you've beenthrough it and that's why I have
my group exactly what you justsaid because they go to their
circle or the people around themand there's just judgment,
because people just likeanything else.
If you haven't been throughsomething, it's just hard to
understand.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, are there some specific things that you suggest
to parents that they absolutelyshould not do like a no-go zone
?
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Don't be a one topic parent.
What we tend to do is that whenthere's any type of struggle,
we tend to focus on the struggle, whether it's a job, whether
it's drugs, whether it's drugs,whether it's a bad relationship,
whatever the case may bebecause we, as moms, we just
always want the answers and wewant to help.
So we focus on that one thingand I'm like, oh, you just talk
(37:21):
about everything, but and you'llbe amazed at how they open up
they don't come around becausewhen they feel that judgment and
they're like, oh my gosh, she'sgoing to bring that up again,
right, she's going to bring thatup again, right, she's going to
bring that up again.
I hear it all the time, evenwith these adult kids.
If there's a real rockyrelationship or maybe even
estrangement, and they juststart to come back together, we
don't bring up the past rightaway.
Let's reunite and see whereeach other are at right now
(37:44):
before we even bring up any ofthat, and let's be discerning
about what really does need tobe brought up again, because not
everything does you also?
Speaker 1 (37:54):
talk about self-care, mothers tend to think about
themselves last.
Do you have a couple pieces ofadvice how a mother or a father
can put themselves first andtake care of themselves?
Speaker 3 (38:04):
You're so right.
That's one of the first things,like in the first phase of what
I do when I coach.
Self-care is right in there andsome people are like I don't
really want to do that right now, but if you don't, you can't
control this.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
She's pointing to her mind those of you that are
listening to the audio.
She said you can't control this, and she's pointing to her mind
.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
You can't control your thoughts.
If your body's not healthy,right, even if it's just walking
, you don't have to go out andrun a marathon, but even if it's
just walking, or whatever youlike to do, find something.
Find one thing type of exercisethat works for you.
It doesn't have to be what yourfriend does.
Just figure out what you can beconsistent with and do it and
get outside in nature.
It starts there, because I'm afirm believer that even when we
(38:49):
are in self-care, when we'rehaving a thought, we're
ruminating on something that'sgoing wrong, we need to stop
what we're doing, we need tobreathe and we need to move, and
that means remove yourself fromthe environment.
So, if you're sitting in youroffice, get out of there, get
outside, walk around the house,whatever you have time to do,
(39:11):
but literally remove yourselfbecause it's amazing, and then
start speaking life intoyourself.
Start speaking life into yourdaughter or your son in the
situation, cause we can focus on, like we said, the negative or
the positive.
But self-care is alsoaccountability.
Find somebody that you can beaccountable with and create some
(39:31):
short-term goals.
It doesn't have to be this hugething, because there's so many
things that moms are workingthrough during this difficult
season, they may think self-careis not that important, but it's
number one.
Outside of having a supportsystem, it's number one.
That's where we start.
It allows you to do the rest ofthe work, because without it
it's very difficult to function.
(39:52):
It helps you get out of bed.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
When I think of self-care, I'm thinking oh, I
got to sign up for a massage.
I have to.
But you're right, just stopbreathe and take a walk.
Yep, that's great.
Before we get into our finaltakeaways, is there anything
we've missed?
Our audience is all parents ofadult children.
Any other tidbits of advicethat we haven't asked about that
you thought I really need toget this out there.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Another key point that I see a lot that I work
with moms on is not givingadvice.
We do tend to give a lot ofadvice to our kids out of love,
right, we're just being mom.
That whole way of being needsto change.
Don't get me wrong.
It depends on your child and,trust me, I do this now even
more than ever, and I do it withmy kids that I didn't have any
(40:37):
problems with.
When they start telling mesomething, I say okay, wait a
minute, do you want me to justlisten or did you want my advice
?
I have one that will say I wantyour advice, and I've got
another one that says justlisten.
Okay, are they all girls?
You have all girls, girls.
Yeah, they're all different.
They have differentpersonalities and to honor that,
(40:59):
try not to give the advice,even though I know your head is
full of all this great wisdom.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
They just don't want to hear it, unless they ask for
it, and then that gives youpermission, yeah, but that's
tough.
I mean, then you're, then you'reon the hook, right.
Then you then, whatever you say, better be really on point,
right.
Well, I think it's fair for usto say, when they do ask, even
even when they do ask for advice, to to say, okay, this is a
whole different world.
(41:30):
I can only really tell you myadvice based on my experience.
It may or may not match.
There's a lot of pitfalls andsome successes that can be had
there in terms of giving advice,but it's hard, it's really hard
.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Asking them prefacing it with.
That has really worked for meand my clients.
They use that with their kidsnow and it has changed the
dynamic because they know mom'snot going to go off and start
offering advice.
So they're more apt to come toyou and talk Right, because they
know that you're going to stopand ask they can voice more,
(42:08):
whether it's getting the adviceor really allowing them to speak
more, kind of both really, andthey learn to expect it from you
, and so when they call you,they know exactly what it is
they're looking for.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
That's helpful too.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Absolutely.
This has been great, and Iwould love you to leave our
listeners with two takeawaysthat you want them to remember
from this discussion today.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
You're on.
Number one is take care of youfirst, and not in a selfish way,
not at all.
But if you don't take care ofyou and you are on a rocky road
or you're estranged or you'reworried that you're going to be,
you not taking care of yourselffirst is going to hinder your
relationship with your child,because then we're not.
(42:56):
We're not our best right.
We need to stay at our best.
We can only control ourselves,and so we need to take care of
the person that we can control.
Number two is the selfresponsibility that I teach,
which is stay in your own lane.
You can control you, but ifyou're both in your own lane and
ideally working on yourselvesand however that looks for you,
quite often I see relationshipsbeing able to come back together
quite easily when we just takea step back and realize, okay,
(43:21):
I've got to stay in my own lane,take care of me, and things
kind of fall into place.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Thank you so much.
This has been really great.
Sally, I'm so glad we found youand I love the shorts on
YouTube.
They're so great, you have somany topics and I hope our
listeners will tune in.
Check her website atsallyharriscom, right,
sally-harris?
Sally-harriscom, I'm so sorry.
We'll put it in our episodenotes and there you have a link
to your YouTube, right.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Sounds good.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Well, that's a wrap.
Today's guest had so much toshare with us and she comes from
a real place.
I loved that.
I loved that she is.
She's not a licensed therapist,but she has lived this, and so
the way this comes across isvery relatable.
I think a lot of our listenersare really going to connect with
(44:13):
the things she said, eventhough we may have heard them
before.
They're going to connect in amuch different way and hopefully
find a lot of value in some ofthe things we discussed.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Absolutely agree with you.
I loved it and I want to remindeveryone to visit
sally-harriscom.
You can link to her YouTubesthere she's got a lot of blog
posts.
Sometimes reading it over andover again helps you choose the
language and see the languagethat you should be using.
I also love the two.
To tango, people have to reallyunderstand.
You don't always have to beright and I love that.
(44:45):
Anyway, I wanna thank ConnieGoren-Fisher, our audio engineer
, who always makes us look andsound much better than we do.
I should say my dog was barkinga little bit and I think,
because we're on Zoom, you'regoing to hear that, so I
apologize, but that's the waylife is.
And visit our websiteBiteYourTonguePodcastcom.
If the spirit moves you, we'dlove you to buy us a virtual cup
(45:05):
of coffee or two or three andremember throughout your life
your relationship with youradult kids.
Sometimes you just have to biteyour tongue.
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of
Bite your Tongue, the podcast.
I'm Denise and I'm here with myco-host, kirsten.
Today we're talking with a momof an adult child who's traveled
a very difficult road.
She says on her websitesally-harriscom, by the way that
while her daughter's life spunout of control, hers was doing
(00:42):
the same.
Now, mind you, she's not acertified therapist.
She's a mom who has really beenin the trenches.
She suffered a decade ofaddiction, depression and
anxiety.
She also understands that notwo situations are alike, but
one thing she says that's alwaysthe same is a mother's heart,
and I'm going to add a father'sheart too heart, and I'm going
(01:06):
to add a father's heart too.
We hope to hear a bit about herjourney and get some tips for
keeping our relationships withour adult children intact while
still living our own lives.
She deals quite a bit withestrangement and we've covered a
lot of that.
So today we're hoping to talkabout recognizing the cues in
your relationship and, like ourpodcast says, build healthy
relationships with our adultkids.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, we recently recorded an episode with Tess
Brigham and asked a lot oflistener questions.
It was interesting because thiswas a common theme, both
estrangement, the fear ofabandonment, as well as being
abandoned.
Sally, welcome, can you share alittle bit about your journey
for our listeners and how youdecided to reach out and try to
help others?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Absolutely Well.
Thank you for having me firstof all Appreciate that.
So you know, like Denise said,I'm a mom who walked a difficult
road with my own daughter forover a decade, and I always say
when her life spiraled, so didmine, and it does not have to be
that way.
But at the time I didn't knowhow to cope and so I just went
(02:10):
into the pit.
I ended up becoming analcoholic.
I had become very unhealthy andI had gained 70 pounds.
I was just extremely unhealthyand a diagnosis is what actually
turned me around.
But I now have eight years ofsobriety and, for the record, I
am reconciled with my daughter.
She has been back in the familyfor about four years.
(02:32):
So great, that's a hugeblessing.
Yeah, that's great, but itreally boils down to I fully
believe that we're bestpositioned to serve the person
we once were.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Say that one more time.
I missed what you said.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
I think we are best positioned to serve the person
we once were.
So I was that mom.
So when you ask why I starteddoing this, is I wanted to be
the person that I didn't have.
I didn't have that supportsystem, don't get me wrong.
I had friends, I had familyaround me, but I had nobody that
(03:07):
had gone through it.
So everyone has great adviceand you take it all, you kind of
muddle through it, but at theend of the day, I had no
guidance, and so that's reallywhat I was lacking.
So that's why I do what I donow.
What I was lacking.
So that's why I do what I donow.
I started locally, in my home,in a group setting back in
(03:28):
2016-ish, serving moms who wereestranged, and at that time I
was still on the journey myself,and I started my YouTube
channel about four and a halfyears ago, and now I do
one-on-one and group coachingfor moms specifically.
But I love how you includeddads in this, because they're
hurting too.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
It's interesting the way you said your life spun out
of control.
I think that's true for I mean,at least for me.
I can only identify as a mom.
But when my child hurts,whether they were a kid or an
adult, I think I hurt more.
I hate to say that, but it'sbecause I have no control.
I don't know what they're doing.
I can't make any progress forthem.
(04:05):
Does that make sense?
I'm hoping they get out ofwhatever it is and I hope we're
gonna talk more about that.
We're gonna talk about theworry and all that sort of thing
.
But I wanna ask you so thiswhole issue of building healthy
relationships with your adultkids seems to be top of mind
lately.
I mean, we started our podcastlike three years ago.
People weren't talking too muchabout it.
You have nearly 20,000followers on your YouTube
(04:28):
channel and your shorts, inparticular, I think, are really
good.
What's changed that this ishappening?
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah, and like you say, I'm not a certified
therapist.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
No, no, I know that.
We said that right up front.
We said that right up front.
Speaker 3 (04:41):
So I just wanted to reiterate that.
So when I answer your question,you know I feel like some of it
is culture, society.
We can't seem to agree todisagree anymore.
We used to be able to havedifferent opinions on things and
then just know that.
You know, that's just not atopic we go, that we discuss and
it wasn't really a big deal.
(05:02):
Nowadays, if you don't agree,it doesn't matter what the topic
is.
There seems to be a completedisconnect and nobody is willing
to agree to disagree, and Ialso think the mental health
issue is definitely on the rise.
One thing that I see a lot andI can tell you from firsthand
experience with this as well,which is why I reiterated that
(05:22):
I'm not a therapist I have hadtons from firsthand experience
with this as well, which is whyI reiterated that I'm not a
therapist.
I have had tons of therapy.
Don't get me wrong.
I've had trauma therapy.
I think that makes you atherapist.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
but anyway, go ahead.
No, we're very clear on that.
You're a mother who's walked inthe trenches, has learned a lot
, but you've also talked to alot of people, you see the
climate.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
So what I was going to say about that was what I see
over and over, and I'm notsaying every therapist is this
way, but what happens is thesekids will go seek therapy and
they're being told to cut offthe family.
My best thought on that isanytime I have a client who
thinks that they need to go seesome, see a therapist, or they
want to try to do therapy withtheir child, by all means, if
(06:03):
that's what you want to do,absolutely do it.
But make sure that you're withsomebody whose goal is to
reconcile the family.
It doesn't mean there's nottimes where people do need to
like okay, this is kind ofreally toxic, they're super
disrespectful one way or theother parent or child and
there's a time where you're likeI gotta, I gotta put some
boundaries up here because thisis killing me, like this is
(06:25):
really hard.
So in those cases, absolutelythere's a time, but I don't
believe it should ever beforever, because forever is a
long time, sally we interviewedJoshua Coleman.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
You've probably read his book.
He came out with one of thesefirst books you and your Adult
Child.
He said something very similarto this that so many therapists
they're literally helping themwrite the letter.
And I thought and I saidafterwards, kirsten and I were
like why aren't people sayinglet's bring your parents in here
, let's talk about this, let'sfigure out how to?
Speaker 3 (06:53):
reconcile Right Exactly, and that's what's so
painful is because it's only onesided.
So while I am serving the momsand granted, you could say
that's one sided too, becauseI'm not hearing the child's
perspective but my goal and Ireally I try to stay middle
ground there.
Sometimes it's really obviouswhat's going on one way or the
other, but for the most part wetry to look at the fact that our
(07:16):
kids have perspectives too.
We don't have to agree withthem, but they're going to have
their own perception of whathappened that day or the
argument that happened, orwhatever the case may be.
But it doesn't mean theirperception is wrong.
It's their reality, whether welike it or not.
Let's meet somewhere in themiddle and try to reconcile
these families, because that'sthe goal for me anyway, that's
my goal, and to do that I haveto get these moms healthy, or or
(07:38):
it's never going to happen.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
That's exactly right.
So that leads right into thenext question.
I watched the video that youtalked about how to let go of
your adult kids.
I loved what you said there.
You said it's not about lettinggo and moving on from them, but
about moving forward in yourown life.
So talk about that a little bit, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Well, I think most moms can agree that we do the
best we can with our kids.
We raise them where they'relike our everything and we kind
of put our own lives on hold andthen, before we know it,
they're adults and we're likewait a minute, where'd they go?
Or these issues start happeningas teens and we don't know how
to handle it because we havelost ourself in the process.
We are so codependent on beinga mom and having that
(08:21):
relationship with the son ordaughter or multiple kids, even
where we lose our own identity.
Being a mom is like one of Idon't know, it's one of my
favorite titles, besides being agam.
I don't know which one's better, but I love being a gam.
But you're a mom, you might be awife, you're a friend, you're a
daughter, you're all theseother things, but the only thing
(08:42):
we focus on is being a mom.
And when this estrangementhappens or just a rocky
relationship and we don't knowhow to handle it, we lose
ourself and we fall into thispit, like I did because I didn't
have the control, like youmentioned earlier.
I really think that we nurtureand love, but we forget about
ourselves.
I think that's where it starts.
So that's what I do now ishelping these moms figure out
(09:06):
what brings you joy.
You can be a mom and still taketime for yourself, and so I
love that we're having thisproactive conversation, kind of
because it's so important,because if I would have known
what to do back then, oh mygoodness, I think I could have
had a faster outcome as well,just because I wouldn't have
made as many mistakes.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Well, I think you know we all, we know we all make
mistakes, or nobody gives us amanual when we have kids.
So you talk a lot aboutreleasing that guilt that comes
from having made those mistakes.
We all do.
We all look back and think, ohgosh, if I'd just done this
differently, would this kid bebetter off or worse off or
whatever.
How do you release that guilt?
What do you do?
(09:47):
What do you tell parents tohelp them with that piece?
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Because that's huge, it's a big, it's a big deal for
all of us, even moms who aren'tgoing through strained
relationships, absolutely, Imean, I don't have strained
relationships.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
So if your kid doesn't call, I think that you
think, whatever choices they'remaking, you think, oh, if I
would have done that differentanyway.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Absolutely.
I think it starts withself-awareness versus starts
with acceptance, because wecan't change the past.
None of us can, no matter what.
That is one thing you cannotchange, but the self-awareness
of knowing that, okay, did I dothe best I could with what I
knew at the time.
Most moms can say yes to that.
There might've been a few timeswhere you're like that was not
(10:29):
so smart, I probably shouldn'thave done that.
But at the end of the day, wehave conversations with our kids
and someone raised their voiceor somebody got mad or whatever
the case may be, and you hadthat guilt about a conversation.
You could have a guilt aboutthe I got divorced or I didn't
get divorced.
I hear both sides of that.
There's just so many things,but it really boils down to
(10:49):
knowing that we can't change thepast and controlling your
thoughts, because how do you?
control your thoughts.
You have to take hold of them,because life and death is in the
power of the tongue First ofall, and we, even the way we
speak to ourselves.
People forget about that.
Like, the way we speak to oneanother is one thing, but what
are you saying to yourself?
(11:10):
We never keep promises toourselves.
We try really hard and we wantto honor everybody else, but we
don't honor ourselves.
And this isn't about beingselfish or anything like that.
It's about just being a whole,healed, healthy person which,
trust me, I had to revamp thatwhole scenario.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah, I mean, I also went to a therapist who made me
say into the mirror everymorning I'm a wonderful person
or something.
We have this phrase and I wouldsay to him I can't say it
because I don't believe it.
They'd say I'm a something,something, something I'm like,
oh, come on, what am I going tosay this to myself for?
But I think that really makes adifference, doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Yeah, those are like affirmations, right, just like
anything else you would say toyourself positively.
You probably aren't going tobelieve it in the beginning, but
the more you speak it, you will.
I always look at it like wehave a choice.
I can focus on the negativeaspect of what my child is doing
and it's really bothering meand I'm worried for them of what
my child is doing and it'sreally bothering me and I'm
worried for them, and I justfocus on the negative and I
focus on an outcome that I don'teven have any proof is gonna
(12:09):
happen, but I focus there anyway.
That's what happens a lot.
I did the same thing To thepoint where I planned my
daughter's funeral.
I was so convinced and I had tobe prepared because I had to be
in control of that, and at thatpoint in time I hadn't lost
anyone.
I had not, other than mygrandma when I was a kid, and so
(12:30):
I was like, how does this work?
And we had a friend that ownedthe funeral home in town, so I
went to her and I was like,please just walk me through this
.
What happened?
And now I'm like, oh my gosh.
So I was literally claiming that, okay, your daughter, my
daughter, is going to pass andI'm going to get this horrible
phone call Right.
And it was devastating to evengo through that process and I
(12:52):
look back now I'm thinking, whydid I do that way from me and I
was letting my thoughts controlher destiny, and mine really,
and I was just had it allplanned out to the point where I
even took action, which isreally scary.
But I always ask people likewhen, with your thoughts, like,
what proof do you have?
Do you have any proof that whatyou're catastrophizing is
(13:15):
actually going to happen?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Ooh, I like that.
Why do we catastrophize?
Cause we've talked about thisbefore.
I definitely will go to theglasses doesn't even have any
water, I'll find the worst thingthat might happen.
My husband says to me why doyou always think the worst?
Why do we catastrophize?
Am I saying that word right?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I know that's a big one, right?
Yeah, I know I think a lot ofit for me.
I'm not sure about for you, butfor me it was.
I had a lot of bad thingshappen in my life and so I just
expected that negative outcome.
Sometimes I think we we try toprotect ourselves.
Like well, if I plan on theworst thing, then anything
better than that will be okay.
Yeah, but I don't think that'sand I get the mentality when you
like logically, but I don'tthink it does anything to serve
(14:04):
your health or your mind.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
So let's go back to what you said about the tongue.
I want you to say that again Ithink it was the positive or
negative because our tonguesalso play a lot.
Well, we call this bite yourtongue.
Our tongues also play a bigpart in our relationship with
our adult kids, because we hadone guest say a parent's voice
comes to the child like amegaphone and we have to be very
(14:29):
careful and very thoughtfulwith our approach.
So I want to hear a little bitmore about that, if you don't
mind or if you can.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, do you mean like life and death is in the
power of the tongue?
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Yeah, that's what you said.
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (14:40):
exactly to you.
Well, to me it means we eitherbreathe life or death into
people Our words have so muchpower into.
Like I could say something toyou positively, so when you
think of me, I might've made you, I complimented you, or I
might've made you feel positiveor good about yourself, right?
Or if we had a negativeinteraction, when you think of
(15:02):
me, that's what you're going toremember.
So that whole megaphone I'veheard that too many times and it
could be positive or negative,like, oh yeah, I can hear my
grandma or I can hear my mom,but then oh, I can hear my mom
or dad, right, and it's justwhatever.
It's almost like whatever voiceis the loudest sometimes, and I
(15:24):
don't mean that in a good waybut like whatever they hear the
most of.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
So give us some advice then, for parents to be
have the tongue, have life.
How do we couch our comments,or do we not say what's on our
mind?
Do we bite our tongues all thetime?
How do we forge a more positive?
Just catching them being good,just like we used to when they
were little?
Anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yeah, number one literally is I mean we used to
when they were little.
Anyway, go ahead.
Yeah, number one literally is Imean we need to think before we
talk.
So many of us just talk and wedon't listen anymore and that's
a huge piece, and I know youwanted to go into about
communication too, but reallyand we'll get to that, yeah,
cause that is such the core ofeverything but thinking before
you talk, because if you thinkof it like, this is kind of a
(16:04):
different example, but I canremember Dr Phil used to say and
this would be more for, like,when your kids are younger but
are you, are you tattling tohelp that person?
Are you tattling to hurt thatperson?
So every time you speak tosomeone, are you doing that to
help them?
Are you doing that to hurt them?
And sometimes, when we hurtpeople, including our own kids,
we're doing it out of our ownpain that I don't think has been
(16:26):
healed and, trust me, I've hadto do a lot of work on myself
with that.
We've all got stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Can you use an example of tattling for good and
tattling for bad for our adultkids?
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Yeah, so for example, like if you are, if you catch
them doing something, like youhad said earlier, if you catch
them doing something good andnot like in a mother child way,
because we're talking aboutadult children and maybe older
teens or whatnot but if youcatch them, just let them know
that you're proud of them.
(16:57):
Just reinforce the good and tryto stay away from the negative,
because we can always take anegative and turn it to good.
Right, give us an example.
So if you were to say, if youwere to catch your child let's
say they're living at home andthey don't get up in the morning
, you go in the room and you'relike see, I told you, look at
(17:19):
that.
This is the third day in a row.
You haven't gotten up.
What am I going to do with you?
You're worthless, you're this,you're that because some parents
talk to their kids that way and, first of all, depending on the
age we're talking about here,but if we're talking about adult
children, in my opinion youshouldn't even be waking them up
.
They're old enough to make thatchoice.
So that, right, there is anexample of how stay in your own
(17:41):
lane.
I know that, like in thatsituation, it's hard because
they're in your home.
It'd be different if they hadtheir own place and they weren't
getting up for work and youdidn't know about it, right, so
it's a little bit harder, but atthe same time, it's not your
responsibility.
I work a lot onself-responsibility and what is
what is the parent'sresponsibility at this point in
the game?
As a parent, our roles shiftand too many of us including
(18:05):
myself, I didn't shift that roleat a younger teen age and start
letting them make mistakeswhile they're still under my
roof, where you can guide themand help them.
So many kids are stifled.
And then they go off to collegeand they start.
They go crazy because they get.
They're like I've got freedom,I've got freedom, but nobody's
there to rein them in and guidethem.
(18:25):
That makes perfect sense.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
You have to give them a long leash to kind of mess
things up while they're underyour and while the consequences
for the most part are small, asopposed to once they are adults
making those decisions.
Do they even know whatconsequences are and how you
deal with that?
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Let's go through.
I read that one blog post andthat's the one I want to
concentrate on.
I think it's the one calledEffective Strategies for Healing
and Strengthening Relationshipswith Our Adult Children, and
we're going to focus on thestrengthening part.
One of the first things youmentioned is effective
communication.
How can we effectivelycommunicate without feeling
judgy?
Because I think they do hearthings differently.
(19:09):
We try so hard and we've got toround our corner in when we're
talking to them, and it doestake work.
A lot of parents of adult kidsthat I talk to say well, I'm
their parent, I can say whateverI want, and I think to myself
no, you better think twice.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
I know, I know it's almost like an ownership thing
that I think some people feelwhen they're an infant yeah,
that's, it's 100% you.
You have to do that, but thenwe have to outgrow that.
As far as communication, Ithink one of the biggest things
that I don't see moms doing thatI teach repeatedly is realizing
(19:44):
that your kids have aperspective too.
But starts up here, so you andI we could be in the same room.
We have this, we're in the sameconversation, things were said,
done, whatever.
You have your perception ofwhat happened and they have
theirs.
So that's usually when some ofthe collision happens is because
(20:05):
they think oh see, you don'tunderstand, you don't listen to
me, because sometimes the mom ordad would be so hard pressed to
say, well, no, that's not howit happened, and they might be
right, but it doesn't matter,it's not about being right, it's
about okay, that was myperception of what happened and
your perception is your reality,right?
(20:27):
So the child could say well, no, I heard mom say X, y, z and
you could be like well, I know,I didn't, that's not how I meant
it.
Well, that's in their mind.
There's that megaphone, maybe,maybe, and having that memory of
what that conversation lookedlike.
And sometimes it's those.
I don't want to say small,because they're not small, but
(20:49):
the problem is when theycompound.
That's when estrangementhappens.
A lot of it.
There's lots of reasons, but wehave to know that we don't have
to agree with them, them wedon't have to think like them,
but we have to, in my opinion,honor their perception of
(21:10):
whatever it is.
If you want to have arelationship with them, if you
don't want to have arelationship with them, then you
, you know, carry on like it.
But if you want to change thatseriously because I just see it
so much, it just breaks my heart.
It's sometimes, if you're, ifthey're willing to have a
conversation with you, and youchange the way you communicate,
it's much, it just breaks myheart.
It's sometimes, if you're, ifthey're willing to have a
conversation with you, and youchange the way you communicate,
it's amazing how that solvesproblems.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
If something like that happened and you're in the
room and they perceive itdifferently and they get angry
and you don't want to go into?
He said.
She said, I imagine what's yourresponse.
You know, I'm so glad to hearyour perspective.
It gives me a new understandingof this conversation, or what
would be my response to get outof that, not have to prove my
point but leave me with someself-respect.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Right.
Well, usually many times, rightafter that conversation or
during that conversation, someit gets heated and someone
leaves.
So when you come back together,because it may not happen at
that moment, sometimes that'sgood.
People need to calm down andwhatever.
But when you come back together, another thing that I would say
is make sure that it's a goodtime for both of you.
(22:14):
It may sound silly, but a lot oftimes moms I see, will and I
used to do the same thing I justassume, like this is a good
time for me, so let's just havethis conversation.
They may not be in the headspacefor it, they are not in the
mood for it, they're notprepared, so then they react and
it just starts all over again.
But also a lot of our kidswould prefer to text through
(22:36):
some of these things, and I knowthat might not be our motive.
Most, you know, moms, that'snot our preferred mode, but
sometimes you know I mean, I'veseen moms do text, I've seen
moms do email and it gives youan option to pause, where it's
not so difficult to bite yourtongue because you're not face
(22:57):
to face and you can reallyreally think through your
responses and you can hear theirresponses by reading them and
really thinking about them andlike, okay, well, okay, I get
that, you know.
Or even if you don't get it,and like, okay, well, okay, I
get that, you know.
Or even if you don't get it,it's okay.
I think so many times and alsolike society, culture, we have
to be right, we don't have to beright.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I think that's the critical thing, because I'm a
little bit.
I have to be right and I'vereally learned that because
usually I'm not Right.
Yeah, that's a really goodpoint.
So when you open up thatconversation again, how would
you open up the conversationafter you both stormed out for
fear of they left really mad atyou.
They might not want to hearfrom you.
How do you open thatconversation again?
Speaker 3 (23:39):
I think the best way to is to ask them.
However you're going tocommunicate with them is ask
them to schedule that time.
When is a good time for us tosit down?
Maybe it's not in the sameplace that the fight happened,
so maybe it's not at home.
Do you want to go to coffee?
Do you want to whatever?
Find a time place that works.
I think it's crucial that, eventhough, like in this case,
we're talking about adultchildren yeah, always adult
(24:02):
children.
Yeah, okay, even though you'rean adult and the child's an
adult, we're still mom.
I feel like we need to set thestage, even if we were the one
that was wrong or maybe weweren't wrong, but we still.
I feel like it's ourresponsibility because we're the
parent, and not in a hierarchyway, but just like a respect,
way to honor them and just belike okay, I want to hear what
(24:23):
you have to say.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
I agree with that.
I think we've said this beforetake the high road.
Don't become a little kid Inmany ways, even though they're
adult kids, sometimes thatinteraction does become
parent-child and I think it isour job to take the high road
when we can.
And it's hard sometimes becauseyou're used to being in charge
and you're no longer in charge.
They're in charge of themselves.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
The other thing with texting or email that you
brought up is that you also, asyou're reading back what you're
writing, sometimes you get whythey responded the way they did,
and that also creates anotheropening for you to say you know
what?
I need to hear you out becauseI can see where you heard this.
(25:09):
I think it's a great tool.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
One of our interviews and I tell everyone to listen
to her, dr Susan Heitler shealways says agree and I agree,
and the minute they hear I agree, it backs everyone down.
So even if you have acompletely different opinion,
you say I agree, and I'd love todiscuss that more.
I think her example was yourkid says I hated the way you
(25:34):
raised me.
You weren't a good parent.
You guys got divorced.
You ignored me.
Whatever it might be, I agree,it's really difficult to raise
children.
I'd love to hear more aboutwhat you're thinking about
rather than.
I tried my best, you know, blah, blah, blah, and that's really
a lot of what you're saying.
You have to take the high road.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
The defenses right.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
The second factor you mentioned are differing values.
Now, this is a hard one.
How do you bite your tonguewhen you watch your children
choose paths so different fromyours, so different than how
they were raised?
We just accept and bite ourtongues.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah, that is hard.
It gets your heart, yourmother's heart, your father's
heart.
It can break your heartAbsolutely.
I went through a lot of thismyself too, but we raise our
kids with values that areimportant to us, that we think
are important, right, Obviously,that we think are positive, or
we likely wouldn't have raisedthem that way, Whether we were
(26:32):
right, wrong or indifferent.
That's just that's what wechose.
That's our parental obligationis to try to raise them up well.
So what happens?
What I see is the values changebecause of a lot of it is the
culture, a lot of it's society.
I feel like there's less valuethan there used to be.
(26:52):
It's almost like they don'tvalue morals as much not all,
and a lot of it.
Addiction has a lot to do withit.
I think you know we always talkabout drugs and alcohol, but I
work with a lot of moms who alsohave their sons mostly sons,
not that there couldn't bedaughters, but gaming addictions
Ooh, I never thought about that.
(27:13):
Yeah, yeah, One of the biggestmistakes is whatever value and
I'm not talking about addictionhere, but they're differing
values.
Like you say, when do you biteyour tongue, Honestly, if you
want to have a relationshipuntil they're ready to talk
about it, want to have arelationship until they're ready
to talk about it.
We have to agree to disagreethere, because otherwise the
(27:34):
family is going to be tore apart, Because if you don't, then
it's just going to be constantchaos, right?
I truly believe I see a lot ofmoms make the mistake of well, I
did not raise them that way.
I don't agree with that.
They want to cut the child off.
Well, you have a choice.
You can do that if that's whatyou want to do, or you have to
(27:55):
love them through it, Cause alot of these are phases I've
seen it as in a phase and also Ialso believe that you raise
children a certain way and ifit's positive, right.
If it's a good, healthy, like, alot of times they come back to
it.
They're trying to seek themtheir own identity out and
figure out who they are, andthey don't want us to impose on
them exactly what they shouldbelieve or what they what they
(28:18):
like.
Or mom said, I always likepizza.
Well, maybe I don't like pizza.
Just as an example, they'rejust so tired of parents telling
them how they should act, whatthey should say, where they
should work, where they shouldgo to school, all the things.
So, honestly, loving them wherethey're at, no matter what it
is, is golden.
(28:39):
It really is, Because as soonas they feel judged by you,
they're gone.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
I agree on the phases , that these are phases and even
from the time they're tiny allthe way as adults I'm seeing
that continue to play out, wherethey've got some idea in their
head that they're holding strongto.
And six months down the roadthat softened a little bit and
the next thing, you know, notreally there anymore.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
And I think if you fight it it might not soften as
much, because they're going toput their arms up.
They don't want to be us anddid you want to be your parent?
No, you want to forge your ownway and we have to give them
some space to forge their ownway.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
That goes into a little bit of the life
transitions.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, let's move to that yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Who they, who they choose to be with.
It's that same idea, Like if Iembrace the person that they've
chosen, regardless of how I feel, then they are forced to have
to look at that relationshipthemselves in a different way.
And so you know you talk about,like the altered family
dynamics.
Can you tell us more about thatand what our role is to help
(29:47):
support them during thesechanges?
And not just, not just dating,but you know, marriage and birth
and divorce?
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Well, divorce and divorce, I mean, that's another
thing.
They're going through a divorce, they lose their job.
We don't want to say, well, youwere sleeping in all the time,
you never got there on time.
How do we support Right?
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Always bumps in the road Always bumps in the road.
As far as the marriage piece,like we get to choose who we
marry.
Like our parents didn't decidewho we married.
They may have been happy aboutit or maybe not.
They may have said something ormaybe not.
But one thing that I think iscrucial is a lot of times
parents will say oh, I didn'tlike, I said, I didn't raise
(30:23):
them that way.
Well, we are the biggestinfluence on our children
through grade school.
We're not the biggest influenceanymore.
Our children through gradeschool, then their peers are not
the biggest influence anymore.
There's a lot of louderinfluences now, including social
media and all of that that theyhave to navigate so we can
instill the values as best wecan.
(30:44):
And then what we need to do, inmy opinion, is support them in
the way that they need.
What we need to do, in myopinion, is support them in the
way that they need.
So ask them.
We assume as moms that, well,this relationship is not going
to be good for her or him, so weneed to make a plan.
How is she going to get out ofthis?
All you're going to do isdivide your family and again
(31:06):
loving them through it.
You don't have to agree andit's really around asking them.
Just come right out and askthem I know this is a difficult
time for you.
Maybe they're having marriagetroubles and you just want to
jump right in and fix as bestyou can.
What if we just ask them, likeI know this is a hard time.
How can I help you?
How can I support you?
What do you need from me?
(31:27):
They'll tell you.
If they don't, as long as theydon't feel judged you.
What do you need from me?
They'll tell you if they don't,as long as they don't feel
judged it really go back to that.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
I have a little bit of a question on this that just
popped into my head.
When there are other siblingsand this kind of situation comes
up, how do you support thesiblings who may agree with you
and want to change the situationso badly?
I mean, do you say to them youknow what I'm suggesting, that
you bite your tongue, right, ordo you just really stay out of
it?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
I mean have the other siblings stay out of it or bite
their tongue.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, yeah, because when the siblings see what
you're seeing and they'reworried about their brother or
their sister, how do you alsosupport them through these life
transitions, when their theirfears of losing their sibling
are pretty prominent?
Yeah, how do you support them?
Speaker 3 (32:24):
I think it's the same way as in what you're doing,
Although the siblings sometimesnot always, but they have a
different relationship that'swhat I was thinking Brother or
sister than you have.
You kind of have to leave it upto them.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Right, I wouldn't get involved.
That's their relationship.
I mean, it'd be terrible ifthey became estranged because of
it, but that's their journey.
So I really like this part onaligning expectations, because
this is a big one.
Your kid's born and they'regoing to be president or CEO or
they're going to you know.
All of a sudden they aren'tliving up to everything that you
(32:59):
thought they were going to be.
Now I always say to peoplewhere you're not CEO, you're not
president.
Why do we have these overexaggerated expectations of our
children?
Speaker 3 (33:10):
One of my favorite topics.
It reminds me of the Hallmarkmovies.
If you watch Hallmark, wherethe dad wants the son to be the
CEO of his, of the familycompany and he wants to go farm
out in the Midwest or something,and he's like, dad, I don't
want to own that.
And then there's this bigstrife.
But then once the dad or momsits and listens to the kid at
(33:31):
the end and they're like oh, Ididn't know, your heart wasn't
in it.
Well, why didn't you just tellme?
Well, I tried because theyweren't listening.
Yeah, they weren't listening.
So I don't know.
I always think of that becausewe have these expectations.
There are expectations of, likeyou said, be president or be
the you president, or take overthe family business, and a lot
of that is different cultures tohave that where there's these
(33:53):
very high expectations of doingcertain things.
I've been honored to work withwomen from a lot of different
cultures.
They've had to make thedecision to break through some
of that if they wanted arelationship, because we're all
humans, right, there's stillthat pull and so it doesn't
matter where we come from.
I really think that ourexpectations have to align with
(34:17):
where the reality is when wehave these super high
expectations where our kids arestruggling, but yet we still
have this high expectation ofpresident.
Maybe they're they're dabblingwith drugs and we still have the
high expectation.
Well, why are you not enrollingin college?
And they're just struggling,trying to get through addiction.
Sometimes it's culture,sometimes it is financial,
(34:39):
sometimes it's just more of animage.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Yeah, I think sometimes it's what your friends
think.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
Yeah, keeping up with the Joneses right when you sit
down with friends, friends.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
The first thing they say is what are your kids doing
exactly?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
we need a new response to that, yeah, we do
need a new response to that, Iactually just you just say that
you know what, they're happy andthey're healthy, and that's all
I need to know absolutely, andyou know, and there's same thing
when, when a mom is is havingtrouble with their child, and
whether they're estranged orit's just rocky.
Speaker 3 (35:12):
that is something that I always teach too.
It's like whether it's aholiday family get together or a
family reunion or a wedding, oryou're someplace and everyone's
like, oh, how's Susie?
Well, it just makes you want tobreak down.
You have to have that one lineanswer and you're going to have
some people that are intrusiveand just want to gossip.
You don't owe those peopleanything.
That's my opinion.
(35:33):
You don't.
You have to keep your circlesmall.
Who's going to love you throughthis, help you through this
without judgment, because thelast thing you need is judgment
If you're trying to heal yourpart in this, because we all
play a part.
So, absolutely.
It's funny you say that, denise, because you're like oh, how's
Susie doing?
Or how are your kids?
What are they up to?
People always refer to the job.
(35:56):
What do they do?
Always.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Or they'll say are they married or whatever, but
usually it's the job.
What are they doing?
Where are they living?
Always.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Right, but but just having that one line answer.
Or, like you said, kirsten,she's doing really good, she's
loving living in Montana and she, she's happy, she's thriving
period.
You don't have to go on.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, it makes me sad when they were little and
you're struggling with pottytraining.
It's too bad.
We can't be honest, becausethere'd be a lot of support that
mothers and fathers could giveeach other If you could say he's
found this job, he reallydoesn't like it, we really got
into drugs, we're working on it,he's in rehab and you don't
feel like a failure.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
Like you said, the reason you're great at what you
do is because you've beenthrough it and that's why I have
my group exactly what you justsaid because they go to their
circle or the people around themand there's just judgment,
because people just likeanything else.
If you haven't been throughsomething, it's just hard to
understand.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, are there some specific things that you suggest
to parents that they absolutelyshould not do like a no-go zone
?
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Don't be a one topic parent.
What we tend to do is that whenthere's any type of struggle,
we tend to focus on the struggle, whether it's a job, whether
it's drugs, whether it's drugs,whether it's a bad relationship,
whatever the case may bebecause we, as moms, we just
always want the answers and wewant to help.
So we focus on that one thingand I'm like, oh, you just talk
(37:21):
about everything, but and you'llbe amazed at how they open up
they don't come around becausewhen they feel that judgment and
they're like, oh my gosh, she'sgoing to bring that up again,
right, she's going to bring thatup again, right, she's going to
bring that up again.
I hear it all the time, evenwith these adult kids.
If there's a real rockyrelationship or maybe even
estrangement, and they juststart to come back together, we
don't bring up the past rightaway.
Let's reunite and see whereeach other are at right now
(37:44):
before we even bring up any ofthat, and let's be discerning
about what really does need tobe brought up again, because not
everything does you also?
Speaker 1 (37:54):
talk about self-care, mothers tend to think about
themselves last.
Do you have a couple pieces ofadvice how a mother or a father
can put themselves first andtake care of themselves?
Speaker 3 (38:04):
You're so right.
That's one of the first things,like in the first phase of what
I do when I coach.
Self-care is right in there andsome people are like I don't
really want to do that right now, but if you don't, you can't
control this.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
She's pointing to her mind those of you that are
listening to the audio.
She said you can't control this, and she's pointing to her mind
.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
You can't control your thoughts.
If your body's not healthy,right, even if it's just walking
, you don't have to go out andrun a marathon, but even if it's
just walking, or whatever youlike to do, find something.
Find one thing type of exercisethat works for you.
It doesn't have to be what yourfriend does.
Just figure out what you can beconsistent with and do it and
get outside in nature.
It starts there, because I'm afirm believer that even when we
(38:49):
are in self-care, when we'rehaving a thought, we're
ruminating on something that'sgoing wrong, we need to stop
what we're doing, we need tobreathe and we need to move, and
that means remove yourself fromthe environment.
So, if you're sitting in youroffice, get out of there, get
outside, walk around the house,whatever you have time to do,
(39:11):
but literally remove yourselfbecause it's amazing, and then
start speaking life intoyourself.
Start speaking life into yourdaughter or your son in the
situation, cause we can focus on, like we said, the negative or
the positive.
But self-care is alsoaccountability.
Find somebody that you can beaccountable with and create some
(39:31):
short-term goals.
It doesn't have to be this hugething, because there's so many
things that moms are workingthrough during this difficult
season, they may think self-careis not that important, but it's
number one.
Outside of having a supportsystem, it's number one.
That's where we start.
It allows you to do the rest ofthe work, because without it
it's very difficult to function.
(39:52):
It helps you get out of bed.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
When I think of self-care, I'm thinking oh, I
got to sign up for a massage.
I have to.
But you're right, just stopbreathe and take a walk.
Yep, that's great.
Before we get into our finaltakeaways, is there anything
we've missed?
Our audience is all parents ofadult children.
Any other tidbits of advicethat we haven't asked about that
you thought I really need toget this out there.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
Another key point that I see a lot that I work
with moms on is not givingadvice.
We do tend to give a lot ofadvice to our kids out of love,
right, we're just being mom.
That whole way of being needsto change.
Don't get me wrong.
It depends on your child and,trust me, I do this now even
more than ever, and I do it withmy kids that I didn't have any
(40:37):
problems with.
When they start telling mesomething, I say okay, wait a
minute, do you want me to justlisten or did you want my advice
?
I have one that will say I wantyour advice, and I've got
another one that says justlisten.
Okay, are they all girls?
You have all girls, girls.
Yeah, they're all different.
They have differentpersonalities and to honor that,
(40:59):
try not to give the advice,even though I know your head is
full of all this great wisdom.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
They just don't want to hear it, unless they ask for
it, and then that gives youpermission, yeah, but that's
tough.
I mean, then you're, then you'reon the hook, right.
Then you then, whatever you say, better be really on point,
right.
Well, I think it's fair for usto say, when they do ask, even
even when they do ask for advice, to to say, okay, this is a
whole different world.
(41:30):
I can only really tell you myadvice based on my experience.
It may or may not match.
There's a lot of pitfalls andsome successes that can be had
there in terms of giving advice,but it's hard, it's really hard
.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
Asking them prefacing it with.
That has really worked for meand my clients.
They use that with their kidsnow and it has changed the
dynamic because they know mom'snot going to go off and start
offering advice.
So they're more apt to come toyou and talk Right, because they
know that you're going to stopand ask they can voice more,
(42:08):
whether it's getting the adviceor really allowing them to speak
more, kind of both really, andthey learn to expect it from you
, and so when they call you,they know exactly what it is
they're looking for.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
That's helpful too.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Absolutely.
This has been great, and Iwould love you to leave our
listeners with two takeawaysthat you want them to remember
from this discussion today.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
You're on.
Number one is take care of youfirst, and not in a selfish way,
not at all.
But if you don't take care ofyou and you are on a rocky road
or you're estranged or you'reworried that you're going to be,
you not taking care of yourselffirst is going to hinder your
relationship with your child,because then we're not.
(42:56):
We're not our best right.
We need to stay at our best.
We can only control ourselves,and so we need to take care of
the person that we can control.
Number two is the selfresponsibility that I teach,
which is stay in your own lane.
You can control you, but ifyou're both in your own lane and
ideally working on yourselvesand however that looks for you,
quite often I see relationshipsbeing able to come back together
quite easily when we just takea step back and realize, okay,
(43:21):
I've got to stay in my own lane,take care of me, and things
kind of fall into place.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Thank you so much.
This has been really great.
Sally, I'm so glad we found youand I love the shorts on
YouTube.
They're so great, you have somany topics and I hope our
listeners will tune in.
Check her website atsallyharriscom, right,
sally-harris?
Sally-harriscom, I'm so sorry.
We'll put it in our episodenotes and there you have a link
to your YouTube, right.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Sounds good.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Well, that's a wrap.
Today's guest had so much toshare with us and she comes from
a real place.
I loved that.
I loved that she is.
She's not a licensed therapist,but she has lived this, and so
the way this comes across isvery relatable.
I think a lot of our listenersare really going to connect with
(44:13):
the things she said, eventhough we may have heard them
before.
They're going to connect in amuch different way and hopefully
find a lot of value in some ofthe things we discussed.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Absolutely agree with you.
I loved it and I want to remindeveryone to visit
sally-harriscom.
You can link to her YouTubesthere she's got a lot of blog
posts.
Sometimes reading it over andover again helps you choose the
language and see the languagethat you should be using.
I also love the two.
To tango, people have to reallyunderstand.
You don't always have to beright and I love that.
(44:45):
Anyway, I wanna thank ConnieGoren-Fisher, our audio engineer
, who always makes us look andsound much better than we do.
I should say my dog was barkinga little bit and I think,
because we're on Zoom, you'regoing to hear that, so I
apologize, but that's the waylife is.
And visit our websiteBiteYourTonguePodcastcom.
If the spirit moves you, we'dlove you to buy us a virtual cup
(45:05):
of coffee or two or three andremember throughout your life
your relationship with youradult kids.
Sometimes you just have to biteyour tongue.
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