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July 25, 2025 51 mins

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Dr. Lawrence Steinberg sheds light on the evolving relationship between parents and their adult children in today's challenging economic landscape, offering practical advice on when to speak up and when to bite your tongue. He explains how the elongation of adolescence and unprecedented financial pressures have transformed traditional parent-child dynamics.

• Housing costs have risen five times faster than salaries, creating barriers to independence for young adults
• Living with parents is now the most common arrangement for Americans in their 20s
• Financial support creates complex dynamics about expectations and boundaries
• Follow the "40-70 rule": discuss finances before parents turn 70 or children turn 40
• Only offer unsolicited advice when your child faces potentially irreparable harmful consequences
• Frame concerns as questions rather than directives to preserve your child's autonomy
• Adult children experience a "third autonomy crisis" around age 30
• When grandparenting, recognize that parenting advice changes generationally
• Focus on making your adult children feel confident and competent as parents
• Stop judging your child's progress by the timetable you followed at their age

Huge thank you to Connie Gorant Fisher, our audio engineer.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
I think that a lot of young people feel misunderstood
and I think they feel unfairlylabeled as lazy or self-absorbed
or selfish or whatever, and Idon't think that that's true.
I think it's really hard to bethat age today, because of the

(00:24):
economy, because of the laborforce, because of everything
that's going on in the world.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Hey everyone, welcome to Bite your Tongue, the
podcast.
Join me, your host, deniseGorin, as we explore the ins and
outs of building healthyrelationships with our adult
children.
Together, we'll speak withexperts, share heartfelt stories
and get timely adviceaddressing topics that matter
most to you.
Get ready to dive deep andlearn to build and nurture deep

(01:00):
connections with our adultchildren and, of course, when to
bite our tongues.
So let's get started.
Hello everyone, we're back.
Welcome to season three of Biteyour Tongue, the podcast.
I hope while we were on hiatus,each of you were able to listen
to some past episodes, even fora second time.

(01:21):
I find I actually get much morefrom certain episodes if I
listen again.
In any event, as many of youknow, ellen is busy promoting
her book and I'm activelylooking for another co host.
I just find the podcast worksso much better when there's two
of us.
We can bounce ideas off eachother and it just flows so much

(01:42):
better.
Give me some time.
I'll find the perfect person,but please email me at
biteyourtonguepodcast atgmailcom if you think you may be
the one.
Now on to the show.
We're opening season three witha guest.
Many of you may already haveheard of Early.
In the summer he released abook called you and your Adult

(02:04):
Child how to Grow TogetherDuring Challenging Times.
Because we were on hiatus, Ischeduled him for our first
interview of the new season.
You may have even seen glimpsesof him on many popular shows,
but today you're going to get adeeper insight into his book,
his ideas and why this wholetopic of you and your adult

(02:25):
child is suddenly so trendy.
Drum roll, please.
Today we're so excited to speakwith Dr Lawrence Steinberg.
His new book, you and yourAdult Child how to Grow Together
During Challenging Times, is agodsend.
Truly, when I read the book, Irealized that he's covering so

(02:46):
many topics that we've beencovering on our podcast, from
finance and sexuality toweddings, partner choices,
disrespect and so much more.
But this is not just histhoughts and ideas.
He's unpacking decades ofresearch and interviews.
But what I liked best is hedoesn't really give us a
specific right or wrong.

(03:07):
He balances both sides of therelationship.
That's why I think this is agreat book, both for young
adults to read and for us, theparents.
The publisher touts the book asthe first comprehensive guide
for parents whose children arein the two most crucial decades
of their life, and we've saidthat over and over again on this

(03:28):
podcast these years are thelongest relationship we'll have
with our adult children.
Let's make it a good one.
I'm so honored to have DrSteinberg with us today.
Such a thrill to chat with him.
So let's get started.
Well, naturally, the firstquestion I want to ask you is
tell me why why you wrote thisbook.

(03:49):
You know, when we started thispodcast a year or so ago, no one
was really talking aboutrelationships with their adult
children, and suddenly it'sbecome an important topic and
you've gotten great notoriety.
So what was the catalyst?
How did you decide to go aheadwith this and really dig deep
into this subject?

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Well, I hadn't thought about writing this book
until I got a call from myeditor at Simon Schuster, who
had been contacted by AARP, theorganization that advocates for
and supports adults who are 50and older.
Right Saying that a lot of itsmembers and AARP has 137 million

(04:28):
members, so it's a bigorganization A lot of its
members were having troubleraising adult children, living
with adult children, taking careof their adult children
whatever verb we want to usethere, right right but they were
puzzled by it and had a lot ofquestions and couldn't find

(04:49):
resources out there to turn to.
I then was invited to writethis book.
It actually fit nicely withwhere my own thinking had
evolved over time in twodifferent ways.
The first is that I'm theparent of an adult child and
during the time I was writingthis book, I was living this

(05:09):
book and we get along just fine.
But what I realized is that youdon't have to be going through
a crisis in order to need helpwith this stage of life, in the
same way that you know books andthey buy books on cobblers and
they buy books on teenagers, andnot a lot of them who buy those

(05:29):
books are going through acrisis.
They're going through atransition and they don't
understand what the transitionis or how they should act.
Also, in terms of my ownacademic interests, I was moving
more and more toward an olderage group than I had specialized
in, so I've been specializingin adolescence and been working
on that age group for 50 years.

(05:52):
One thing that I wrote about inmy previous book, age of
Opportunity, was thatadolescence has been lengthening
.
It's been elongated because theend of it really comes at the
point when people make thetransition into adulthood, and
that's socially defined.
It's not a biologicaltransition for the most part,
and what we know is that moreand more people are taking

(06:16):
longer and longer to move intotheir careers, to become married
, to become parents, to becomeeconomically dependent, to set
up their own home.
And I had already been thinkingabout that and had been writing
about that.
But what I hadn't written aboutor thought about was how these
changes are affecting parents,because when we scholars of

(06:46):
development write about peoplein their 20s, let's say, or
people in their 30s, we writeabout them as students or
workers or spouses.
We don't write about them aschildren.
In fact, one of the difficultthings in writing this book was
coming up with a phrase todescribe who these people are,
because we don't have one in ourlanguage.
A lot of people don't likecalling them adult children, but

(07:06):
that's about the best we can do.
I mean we could say adult sonsand daughters.
That's a little cumbersome tohave in the title of a book and
adult children has some weirdconnotations, as I like to say.
It makes you think either ofDonald Trump, who's an adult
child.
It makes you think either ofDonald Trump, who's an adult

(07:27):
child, or young Sheldon, who'sone of those precocious,
obnoxious sitcom stars.
And I don't mean that I'm notmaking a judgment or passing a
judgment on people's maturitywhen I say that somebody's an
adult child.
I'm simply saying that thereare adults who are still
actively involved with theirparents.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
I think that's great, because I do think that
whatever age you are, people sayto you how many children do you
have?
They don't say how many adultsons or daughters do you have.
So whatever age you are, Idon't care if you're 80, if, for
some reason, your parents alive, you're still a child to that
adult parent.
And think about it when youread an obituary.
They say they leave behind blah, blah, blah and four children.

(08:06):
But what I really liked whatyou said was and I loved your no
one can see this because it's apodcast your expression when
you said I have one adult childand everyone does this.
We get along fine.
You know, it's like this sortof I didn't write this because I
had problems, but that's what Ilove that you said.
This isn't about people thatare just have deep problems and

(08:28):
their kids.
This is us learning a newtransition in parenting, one
that hasn't been approachedbefore, and so I really love
that.
You said that.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
But you wouldn't know that.
So one of the first things Idid, once I agreed to do the
book.
As most authors do, I wanted tosee what else was out there.
I went to bookstores, onlineand in person, and what's out?
There are books written by andfor parents who are estranged
from their adult children, andso if you were to judge the

(08:59):
situation only by looking atwhat's been written already, you
would think that everybody washaving a tough time raising
their adult children, and someof them weren't on speaking
terms with them, and we can talkabout that if you want.
I mean, I think that that wholeissue estrangement which is a
serious one, has been reallyoverstated in terms of its

(09:21):
magnitude.
My guess is that, like me, mostadults with adult children get
along with them fine, but haveissues that they need help with
and they have questions thatthey haven't confronted before.
Right, a big part of the bookis discussing how times have
changed in ways that transformedthe parent-child relationship.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
And that's exactly my next question.
You talk about challengingtimes.
What does that mean?
You say in the book towards theend.
If there's one crucial takeawayfrom the book, it's that
parenting an adult child todayis very different than it was a
generation ago.
This has left many parentsperplexed about their
relationship with their adultchildren.
Can you explain this and thefactors that contribute to it,

(10:06):
because I think we'd all beinterested to know that for sure
.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Sure.
Well, we used the term wemeaning my editor and I used the
term challenging times to meantwo different things.
One is that it's a challengingtime for the relationship period
.
The second is that it's achallenging time in history that
affects that relationship inways that were not present

(10:30):
previously, and so by that I'mtalking about a couple of things
.
The first is that, because it'staking longer for young people
to make the transition intothese adult roles, so they're
staying in school longer, forexample, into these adult roles,
so they're staying in schoollonger, for example, each of
these transitions, when it getsslowed or delayed, has cascading
effects.

(10:51):
If you stay in school longer,then you're putting off earning
money.
If you're putting off earningmoney, then you have to get
money from somewhere, and it'sprobably your parents.
And so many parents now findthat they're helping to support
their kids for a far longerperiod of time than they
expected.
And, by the same token, manykids are finding that they're

(11:12):
having to depend on theirparents for a far longer period
of time than they expected, andthat's one way in which it's
changed.
And, as we'll discuss, thiscombination of economic
dependence but emotionalindependence is a very
challenging one for families tonavigate.
So that's one way.

(11:32):
A second is the incredibleincrease in the cost of housing.
Housing, whether you're talkingabout rent or purchase housing,
has gone up five times fasterthan salaries have, and so more
and more young people are havingto either depend on their
parents to pay for or subsidizetheir housing, or to move back

(11:55):
home with their parents.
So, as I note, we have thehighest proportion of people in
their 20s living at home aswe've ever had in modern times.
Right now, it is the mostcommon living arrangement in
America for people in their 20sis to live with one or both of
their parents.
That was never the case at anypoint in time in the 20th

(12:17):
century, even during the heightof the Great Depression.
It wasn't even the case towardthe end of the 19th century.
So, in America at least, it'svery unusual and because it's
unusual and because it's new forlots of families nobody knows
what the rules are, nobody knowswhat the guidelines are, nobody
knows how to navigate this, andit's not the same, as I

(12:40):
explained, as when your collegestudent returns home for summer
vacation or for Christmas break.
So what are the expectationsthat you have and that the adult
child has for living togetherEverything from the mundane like
are they expected to dohousehold chores, are they

(13:00):
expected to be at dinner everynight To the kinds of things
that we don't talk about.
Like what, if they want to havean active sex life?
They're having a sex life downthe hall from their parents,
their parents.
You know, as parents, we don'tlike to think of our children as
sexual beings.
I should say that our childrendon't like to think of us as
sexual beings.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
I was going to say I think that goes both ways.
It does go both ways.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
I was going to say, I think that goes both ways, but
it's a little too close forcomfort, you know, to know that
your son or daughter has justcome home with somebody they
maybe met that night and thatthey're planning on sleeping
together.
You know, two doors down thehallway, as somebody said when I
was doing a talk show andsomebody said I don't want to
come down to breakfast and findsome dude sitting in his boxer

(13:45):
shorts at my kitchen table, andso I think that probably doesn't
happen all that often, but youget the point.
Yeah, but what do?

Speaker 2 (13:52):
parents do.
I mean, we can talk about it,but what are the steps they take
?
I mean, you know,internationally, kids have been
living with their families.
In Italy, it's a normal thing.
In China it's a normal thing.
The grandparents raise the kidsand no one seems to have a
problem.
I wonder.
I just want to ask something.
Go back to you know, kids arein school longer and that sort

(14:16):
of thing.
Do you mean getting furtherdegrees?
Or also, some kids aren't ableto finish school in five or six
years, and is that part of ourparenting error?
You know, have we been tooindulgent, as they've been
growing up and paying forcollege and, okay, well, they
don't make it through in fouryears, we'll make it through in
five.
You know, is it partying goingon?
Where do they have to step tothe plate and say you know what?
You either get through in fouryears or figure it out, bud.

(14:39):
I mean, what is that?
How does this play into it?

Speaker 1 (14:42):
Well, both of what you said turn out to be true.
So it is taking students longerto complete a bachelor's degree
.
There's no question about that.
In fact, you know, we insist oncalling it a four-year degree,
and it's not a four-year degreefor the majority of people.
So more people take more thanfour years now than four years
or fewer, and so we have to stopthinking of it that way.

(15:06):
Now, why that is?
There are a number of reasonsfor it, some of which are out of
the control of the students.
So, for example, at myuniversity, temple University in
Philadelphia, big school 30,000or so undergrads there are
requirements for graduation.
To be a psych major, you haveto take a certain number of
courses.

(15:26):
Well, we might be understaffedas a department one year and we
may not be able to offer all thecourses that students need in
order to graduate, and thisisn't unique to my university.
This is across the country.
And then if students decide intotheir careers as students to

(15:46):
change majors and then theymight not be able to complete
the requirements for the newmajor within four years.
Now the question that you raiseand it's a very good one is how
long are parents supposed to bepaying for this?
And on top of that, we knowthat more and more jobs require
more education than they did inthe past.

(16:08):
Whether they should is adifferent matter and maybe not
part of our conversation.
But if you need a master'sdegree to do a job that you only
needed a bachelor's degree todo five years ago, that's two
more years of schooling thatsomebody is going to have to pay
for.
Plus there's all the add-onancillary training that students

(16:33):
need.
So you graduate from collegeand then you realize I never
took a course in computer codingand I'm going to have to code
when I get out there.
So now you're going to have topay for and take a semester long
coding class someplace, andthis happens all the time.
So I'm not one of those personswho is on.

(16:54):
The millennials are lazybandwagon.
I don't think that that's true.
I don't think there's anyevidence that it's true.
I do think it's harder toestablish your financial footing
today for people in their 20sand 30s than it has been in the
past, and every family is goingto respond differently.
And I have to say that was achallenge in writing you and

(17:16):
your adult child, because youknow it's fairly easy to write a
book for parents of babies.
Most babies are pretty similar.
I mean you don't have to adoptdifferent diapering techniques
for different babies.
But once you get to be in your20s or even 30s, I mean life
just varies so much from personto person, and so it was hard

(17:37):
for me to give blanket advice onlots of issues and instead what
I thought would be helpful wasto say to parents here's what
you should be thinking about.
I can't tell you whether youshould pay for a fifth year of
college or not.
A lot of that depends on yourown finances.
A lot of that depends onwhether you think your child has
a plan and that this makes alot of sense.

(18:00):
Without knowing the answers tothose questions, I can't tell
you what I think you should do,but I can tell you that what you
should think about is is thisgoing to be okay with my
finances as an adult?
Is this going to interfere withmy retirement plans, for
example, and is my child seriousabout education in a way that I
think this is going to be agood investment?

(18:22):
Or maybe my kid should justtake some time off until she
figures out what she wants to dowith her life?
So sorry for kind of windingaround a little bit here, but it
is linked to the earlierquestion you asked about
challenging times, because theother thing that makes these
times challenging is the factthat this generation of parents

(18:46):
was super involved in theirkids' lives from the beginning.
You know I mean, choosing apreschool was life or death,
going to every back-to-schoolnight with notebooks to write
down everything the teacherssaid, standing on the sidelines
and screaming at all the soccergames.

(19:06):
You know, I said I don't think Iwrote this in the book, but I
gave a talk in which I saidwanting to be the cool parent
who has relationships with allyour kids' high school buddies,
being involved in the collegeapplication process, writing the
college application essay, andso a lot of these parents are
used to being really, reallyinvolved and they wonder should

(19:28):
I remain this involved now thatmy kid has grown up, has
finished college, is in their20s or even 30s, what is the
right level of involvement?
And so it's a kind of boundaryproblem that exists.

Speaker 2 (19:42):
Well, and sometimes they're not able to stop being
involved.
That brings me to the nextquestion.
Early in the book you talkabout conflict versus autonomy,
and I think a lot of mylisteners and myself how to let
go when we've been so close tothem for so many years because
really they are adults and theyhave to make their own decisions
.
And how do we then back off?

Speaker 1 (20:04):
You can't be so engaged, but some parents are
forced to be there sort of faceto face.
In other words, it's easy to beless engaged when you're not
living with each other, but nowthat you're living together with
your adult children, you see alot of things and you're tempted
to ask questions or to saysomething about it.

(20:26):
And so I love the name of yourpodcast, because biting your
tongue is a big part of beingthe parent of a young adult.
When I was first talking aboutthis book with my agent, he said
that a friend of his joked thatthe leading cause of death
among parents with adultchildren were extensive
lacerations to the tongue,because you are in that

(20:50):
situation so often and you don'tknow what to do.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
But you give some suggestions that you should ask
yourself.
You have a whole chapter onbiting your tongue, and so I
have to ask you outlinequestions to ask yourself before
you decide should you bite yourtongue or not bite your tongue.
Can you talk about those?

Speaker 1 (21:09):
Sure, I mean, the most important one is is my
child about to do somethingthat's going to have irreparable
harmful consequences?
And so there, I think youshould not bite your tongue.
I mean, you need to speak up ifthey're going to be making a
dangerous decision that's goingto affect them, or their partner
, or their child.

(21:30):
So let's say that you'vecleared that and you decide this
isn't a dangerous decision,it's just one that I'm not happy
with.
Well, is it just a matter oftaste and you and your child
have different taste, or is it?
Is it substantial in some way?
And if it's just a matter oftaste, you're just going to have
to, you know, hold your noseand look the other way, um, and.

(21:52):
And then a third one is youknow, on the other hand, how is
it going to affect your mentalhealth?
The feeling like you're walkingon eggshells which, by the way,
is the name of another book?

Speaker 2 (22:02):
I've interviewed her, jane.
I say, yeah, she's terrificyeah, um.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
so you, that can't be easy, that's not easy, and so
you've got to figure out.
You know, we say to parents ofyounger people pick your battle
right, don't fight abouteverything.
And I would say, with respectto biting your tongue, pick
carefully the times when you'renot going to bite.
But you know, as I say in thebook, generally speaking, if

(22:27):
this is not a dangerous, harmful, irreparable decision, don't
offer advice unless your childasks for it.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
How can we develop a friendship rather than this?
You know give and take and Itry very hard to say the right
things all the time, but I messup here and there and I think
there's just a way to say hey,mom, you know you don't say that
anymore or whatever.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yeah, yeah, I have those moments with our son when
he calls me Archie.
So I think that you can befriendly without being a friend.
You are never not going to betheir parent and that carries a
lot of psychological baggagewith it, and that's where we get
into autonomy as an issue, andit occurred to me.

(23:15):
As a psychologist, I know thatthere are two periods in a
child's development whenautonomy often comes to the fore
as a big problem for families.
One is when they're toddlersthat's why we call it the
terrible twos and when they'realways saying no One.
When they're teenagers, we callit the terrible teens.
And as I was thinking about thisstage of life, this stage that

(23:38):
we're talking about for being anadult child, I think there's a
third autonomy related crisisthat's going on.
Then I don't have a specificage.
I would say it's in the late20s, somewhere around 30.
And it's worth thinking aboutthis in comparison to the other
two autonomy-related periods.
When your two or three-year-oldis asserting their autonomy,

(24:02):
what they're saying is I realizenow that I'm a separate person
from you.
What they're saying is Irealize now that I'm a separate
person from you and I have anopinion about something.
When it's a teenager, it'sslightly different.
It's not only do I have my ownopinions, I have the right to
assert them to you too.
I can disagree with you and Ican argue with you about whether

(24:30):
I should have an 11 o'clockcurfew or not.
This autonomy issue during theadult years is about
demonstrating to themselves andto you that they can handle the
challenges of adulthood withoutyou To answer your question.
When you point something out toyour child that you disagree
with or that you think they'redoing wrong or that you think is

(24:52):
a bad decision, it isn't likesaying that to a friend, because
they always will be carryingaround you in part of their
psyche and it might make themfeel like, oh, maybe I'm not
quite mature enough or as matureas I should be if I need to ask
their advice on this or if Ineed to take their advice on

(25:16):
this.
But I think it is a problemwhen you start saying, hmm, this
doesn't seem like a very goodapartment to rent.
Do you want to rent that Like?
I noticed that there are lotsof clubs on the street and it's
going to be noise.
Did you think about that thatit's going to be noisy at night.
And then so when you say that,and they say to themselves, boy,

(25:38):
it was really stupid to notthink about that.
Like I thought about all kindsof other things.
I love the cool you know oven,the chef's oven that it came
with, or I love the view out theyou know bedroom window, but I
didn't think that it was goingto be hard to sleep at night
because there are clubs andrestaurants right nearby.
And then I think that makesthem feel, makes them question

(26:01):
themselves.
In a way, if their friends saidthe exact same thing to them,
it wouldn't make them questiontheir maturity or their
competence as a person, butbecause mom said it or dad said
it, I think it has that effect.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
That's why so I also think sometimes we don't always
know what's right or wrong.
Possibly that rental with allthe clubs around is exactly what
the kid wants.
So I hesitate a lot to givethose kinds of even work advice.
I'm not sure we know what thework life is like nowadays.
It's changed completely.
So even when we think they'remaking a mistake, I might say in

(26:39):
my day I would think about this, but things are so changed you
really need to depend on yourown opinion or whatever.
I might offer it in a sort of abackpedal way.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
So that's why I think that the middle ground in lots
of these situations is to ask aquestion rather than to give
advice.
In other words, you can say youknow lots of people think that
it's important to see a placeboth during the daytime and in
the evening before you make adecision to buy it, because the

(27:09):
environment may be verydifferent.
Just saying that maybe youshould think about doing that.
Or, you know, I've never workedin the kind of office that you
work in, but sometimes thisfollowing kind of thing comes up
and I wonder is that somethinglike what's going on here for
you?
And I think that asking thequestion serves two different

(27:34):
purposes.
The first is, in a way, ithelps you give advice, in a way
that doesn't sound like you'regiving advice, and secondly, it
may actually help clarifysomething in their own mind that
they hadn't really understoodor that they'd been confused
about.
Now it also goes back tosomething we talked about
earlier, about how involvedtoday's parents of adult

(27:56):
children have been.
I bought there isn't a singlehouse that I purchased or that
my wife and I purchased that myparents even saw before we
purchased it, so there was noopportunity for them to weigh in
on it because I didn't needthem to weigh in on it and it
wouldn't have mattered.
True, true, right.
But I think today, and thisalso then gets tangled up with

(28:21):
the finances- A lot of parentsare helping with down payments
in houses.
And I think that, as you knowfrom having read the book, this
is a topic that I raise in acouple of different realms.
And this is the question thatparents wonder about Does my
financial assistance entitle meto have a say in how the money

(28:42):
is spent?
You know, whether it's thechoice of a house or the choice
of a car, or if I'm subsidizingmy kids.
You know month to monthexpenditures.
Do I get to know how they'respending their money?
And you know, I'm sure it's acommon situation, because I know

(29:05):
we have a lot of friends whohelp their children out monthly,
not for something specific, butmaybe they give them 200, 300,
500 a month, and then theydiscover that they're, that
their kids are going out to youknow expensive restaurants to
eat, and you start to think well, I thought you said you needed
the money.
Obviously you don.
You needed the money.
Obviously you don't need themoney if this is what you're

(29:30):
spending it on.
And so then, where do you drawthe line about speaking up or
biting your tongue when it comesto that kind of issue?

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Well, what do you do in that situation?
You write a whole thing aboutthat, about this parents who
were lending their daughtermoney and then finding out the
kid was planning a trip toScandinavia.
What do you say?
How do you approach that?

Speaker 1 (29:44):
I think that I wouldn't do it.
When there's one, when there'sone expenditure that bugs you,
you know.
But I think if it's a pattern,I think you say something like
you know from a distance, itseems like you don't need as
much help from us as we've beengiving you.
Should we discuss?
You know a new amount.

(30:06):
And if they say, what are youtalking about?
If they get all huffy, you knowabout it then I think you can
say seems like you're going outto eat a lot, when you could be
bringing stuff home from thegrocery store.
I know right.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Those are hard conversations.
That's really judgmental.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
It's very judgmental.
And, as I say in the book, youknow, just because you're
helping your child doesn't meanthat this should mean that they
can never go out to dinner.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
Right, right, that's a hard, you know a hard.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
But I think you just have to sort of do it softly
without pointing to something.
Just have to sort of do itsoftly without pointing to
something specific.
It turned out in that storyabout the young woman who was
taking a vacation with herpartner to Scandinavia that her
partner's mother had given themthe airplane tickets as a
birthday present.
And of course, the youngwoman's parents didn't know that

(30:58):
.
They thought, well, she'sspending the money we're giving
her on, you know, going toSweden for the month of August.
Well, that turned out not to bethe case and they also said you
know, we stopped going toStarbucks for, you know, for our
morning coffee.
And we realized how much moneyyou can save if you don't have
coffee out every morning andevery coffee break.

(31:19):
So, you know, you may not knowwhere the money is coming from
that they're using for thingsthat you think are extravagances
, and, after all, it's a matterof bookkeeping, isn't it?
I mean, if you give your childa subsidy to pay for daycare,
you're not actually writing thecheck to.
Maybe you are, but most of theparents are giving the money to
their kids and just assumingthat they're spending it the way

(31:41):
that they're saying they wereplanning on spending it.
And you know, as I say, therelationship has to be based in
trust.
Right From the beginning, youhave to say to your child we can
help you out to this extent,but I'm going to trust you that
when you no longer need themoney or when you no longer need
as much, you're going to cometo me and tell me that.

(32:04):
And if you can't trust yourchild to do that, I would say
you've got bigger problems thanfiguring out the finances.
Because the relationship has tobe grounded in trust.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Yeah, that makes sense.
You know when we're talkingabout finances, so I'm going to
bring this up.
One listener wrote my son haslost his job.
He has three children.
They've never managed theirmoney.
If I don't pay their rent,they'll be homeless.
I don't see he or his wifespending money wisely or even
trying to get a job.
What do I do?

Speaker 1 (32:33):
Well, I think a lot of it depends on whether they
can move in with you temporarily, which is a way to make sure
that they're safely housed.
I mean, I don't think very manyparents would willingly want
their child to be homeless.
That seems like a bad responseto you know you're managing your

(32:53):
money.
I mean, you know, I think you,I think you can sit down with
them and say let's talk about abudget.
Down with them and say let'stalk about a budget, and because
it seems to me that you're alittle spendthrift in the way
that you, in the way that you gothrough money so quickly, and
I'm comfortable helping you finda place to live.
You've got children to takecare of and I don't want them to

(33:18):
be threatened out on the streetor wherever.
But I think you could use somehelp with managing your money
and I'm happy to help you figureout a plan to do that.
And you know, I think there aretimes of desperation where
parents finally just say I'msorry, I can't keep doing this,

(33:39):
I just can't keep doing it, andI think then that can lead to
estrangement and you have to, asa parent, you have to know that
that is a possible consequenceof taking the hard line and I
will try everything you knowbefore doing that.
Now we're talking as if theparents have the money to do

(34:00):
this.
That's exactly right, right.
We're talking as if the parentshave the money to do this.
That's exactly right, right,Right.
And I don't think we shouldassume that that's always the
case.
You know, because AARP was asponsor of this book.
They had some advice to giveand I tried to be compassionate
to both generations in the bookand I hope I was able.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
I think you were.
I think it's a good book forboth generations to read.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, the AARP said you should never give your child
money if it threatens yourhealth or your retirement or
your plans for the future.
And so there are parents thatcan't afford to do everything
that their children need them todo, and I, you know, I'm not a
financial advisor.

(34:42):
It's not my role to say here'show you should handle the money
thing, yeah, so I think that alot of young people feel
misunderstood and I think theyfeel unfairly labeled as lazy or
self-absorbed or selfish orwhatever, and I don't think that

(35:03):
that's true.
I think it's really hard to bethat age today, because of the
economy, because of the laborforce, because of everything
that's going on in the world.
When I get asked questions, as Ido frequently, about whether
social media is responsible forthe increase in depression and
anxiety among teenagers andyoung adults, I think a little,

(35:26):
but I mean the list of things tobe depressed about it's just
enormous.
I mean we've got climate changeand the war in Ukraine and the
political divisiveness and thepolitical divisiveness and the
threats to women's reproductiveautonomy and the notion that you

(35:47):
know that pandemics are goingto be a way of life, you know
going ahead and the high cost of.
I mean there are so many thingsto be depressed about.
To honestly think thatinstagram is causing all this, I
think is very, very foolish,because I think there are lots
of things that are contributingto it and I think that young
people feel misunderstood.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
I love that.
I love that.
I hate to go backwards.
But I want to go back to thatfinance thing again because I
think sometimes you're rightTake stock of your finances,
give only what you can.
I want to say two things.
I think it's hard to know howmuch you will need.
But when you're in that sort ofplace where, well, you have
enough to give them, but youdon't know if you're going to
need it when you're 80, you knowthat's really hard.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
It's hard to know.
Hopefully, well, a couple ofthings.
Hopefully, you will have donesome financial planning for
yourself and be able toanticipate what you're going to
need.
Second, I suggest that youfollow the 40-70 rule, which is,
have a talk about your financeswith your child before you turn

(36:51):
70 or before they turn 40.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
I've never heard that before.
Say that again.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
It's called.
It's referred to often as the40-70 rule to have a talk with
your child about your financesbefore you turn 70 or before
they turn 40.
And if you go online you'll seeit.
It's written up.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
I never heard it.
I think that's very interesting.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
You know, I think a lot of parents are reluctant to
discuss their financialsituation with their child, but
it serves a couple of purposes.
First of all, it answers somequestions that your child may
have about what kind of helpyou're going to need as you get
elderly.
It also answers some questionsthat your child may have about
whether they're going to inheritanything from you after you

(37:33):
pass.
But I think, most of all, itgives your child some sense of
what your own financialsituation is, in a way that
might make their approach to youa little different.
And so if they understand thatyou have trouble making ends
meet each month because betweenSocial Security and your savings

(37:54):
, you know, and your pension youdon't have enough or you only
have a little bit more than whatyou actually need, your child
will understand that.
Remember, you're not talkingabout a five-year-old who's in
the toy store saying buy thisfor me.
You're talking about somebodywho's 30 years old, who
understands what it's like tofeel a financial crunch.

(38:16):
And so I think it's importantto have an honest discussion
about your own financialsituation, and your child
doesn't want to raise it becausethey don't like to think about
you getting old and gettinginfirm and dying, and so they're
not going to come to you andsay, well, what's going to
happen after you die, I mean,but you're going to have to let
them know what the plan is Right.

Speaker 2 (38:37):
So we've been talking a long time and I want to get
to marriage and grandchildrenand you said you wrote about how
your relationship with yourchild changes when they marry.
Can you talk about this andwhat parents of adult children
need to know sort of about whentheir child takes on a life
partner and how their rolechanges and what things they can
do to make it a positivetransition?
Yeah, there's a lot to sayabout this.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
You know you didn't pick this person.
Who's their partner?
They picked their partner andyou may not have cared for this
person, but you've got to figureout a way to get along with
this person, because in healthyfamilies, your child is going to
take that person's side ifsomething comes up and your

(39:19):
child is not going to bail onthat person in order to please
you.
As you know, as their parentsperiod I mean, if that's
happening something is thematter with their marriage or
their relationship.
So you've got to find a way tomeet this person in some in some
way that's going to beacceptable to both of you.

(39:41):
There's nothing that says youhave to love this person.
There's nothing that says youhave to be you know, close
friends with this person, butthere is something that says
that you and this person share acommon interest, which is your
kid and your kid's well-being.
And your kid's well-being isgoing to be threatened if you
are constantly on the outs withtheir partner.

(40:04):
If that's happening, I thinkthe first step would be to talk
to your kid about it and say didI do something wrong that's
making him distance himself fromme, because if I did, I'd like
to correct it, or it's not goingas well as I had hoped it would
go.
Do you know what's going on andmaybe you can get to the bottom

(40:24):
of it?
So that's the first point.
The second point is that, as acouple, your kid and their
partner are going to have tomake their own compromises and
they may make decisions that youdon't like that they're making
because it was the partner'sinfluence over that, because it
was the partner's influence overthat.
And, as I say in the book, oneof the wonderful things that

(40:46):
comes out of a good romanticrelationship is the fact that
you are influenced by, and youdo learn from your partner, and
so your child may make decisionsthat you think.
I don't know where they gotthat idea.
They didn't get it from me.
Well, maybe they got it fromtheir partner and maybe that's
not such a bad thing, and youdon't know how many of the
things they're doing as a couplethat their partner is not crazy

(41:06):
about.
But it was.
It was a situation in whichyour kid had the you know, had
the final decision.
So I think you need to do tokeep the peace.
Now.
I'm very fortunate.
My wife and I get along verywell with our daughter in law.
We can spend time with herwithout our son being there and
things are great and we love herand she loves us and we're very

(41:29):
, very lucky in that respect.
Not all parents have that.
You know you want to be able tosit next to them at
Thanksgiving and not, you know,give each one the cold shoulder.
You know it's only a meal andmaybe you don't have to see them
all that often, but you've gotto make the peace.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
Do you think we become a little bit secondary?
I sort of feel like we have torealize we're no longer there
when they call it.
I'm getting old and losing mymind too.
We're not there.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Yeah, they're touched on.
Yeah, and that's, you know,that's as it should be.
I mean I would frankly worry ifmy child were married and just
kept coming to me all the timewith things that I think could
be discussed with, you know,with their partner.
I mean I would worry thatsomething wasn't quite right and
you know you've already had ataste of this when you're when

(42:19):
your high school age kid had aserious boyfriend or girlfriend
and all of sudden you felt likeyou were the third wheel there.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
Not quite as much when they get married, they have
their own house they're.
Financially, they're reallytheir own unit now.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Yes, that's true, that's true.
Yeah, yeah, but you've had somepractice at being, you know,
the second most important personin their life.
I guess you know.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
I feel like when they really have their own home and
their own spouse and especiallylet's get to grandparent they
have their own child.
They become the primary unit weare no longer the primary unit
that we were before.
So let's get to grandparentbefore we wrap up.
I don't have grandchildren.
Many of my friends andlisteners do.
And they tell me it's prettyhard.
They're biting their tonguesall the time, all the time.

(43:04):
So even more than they do.
So tell us about that.
I guess you know how do youbecome a good parent and you
know helpful, non-intrusivegrandparent.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
Well, the first is to understand that parenting
advice changes generationally,right, and so you may see your
child do something that youthink, oh my God, I would never
have done.
And then you may find that thisis exactly what their
pediatrician told them to do, orthat this is exactly what the

(43:34):
guru, whose parenting book isthe most popular parenting book,
says you should do, or it'sexactly what your friends, what
their friends tell them to do,and they would think that how
you raised them was crazy inretrospect.
And so a big difference that Ijoke about in the book is that I

(43:54):
, as a parent I refer to DrSpock a lot, penelope Leach a
lot, and they were my gurus andthey were very relaxed.
In fact, spock begins his bookwith the famous sentence trust
yourself.
Now, if you were to open up theequivalent book today, the

(44:15):
first sentence might be trustthe data, because parenting has
become very data driven, and sokids today keep very detailed
log of how much their child eatsat every feeding and how many
minutes their child sleeps atevery nap, at what time they
were put down, at what time theygot up.

(44:35):
You know, I mean it's allrecorded.
There are so many apps that youcan download onto your phone to
do this.
It looks crazy to parents likeus who trusted ourselves, right
I mean to me.
You put your baby down whenyour baby seemed tired and you
pick your baby up when they wokeup from sleep and you didn't
write down.
You know you fed them when theywere hungry and you stopped

(44:58):
feeding them when they didn'twant any more food, and it
wasn't more complicated thanthat.
And what I say in the book is,first of all, recognize that and
secondly, you know what Doesn'treally matter.
There are lots of differentways to be a good parent and you
know.
I mean, if your kids are beingabusive or neglectful, you've
got to speak up, but if they'redoing things like this, they

(45:21):
don't like the way that they're.
You think that they're toopermissive, or you think that
they're too strict, or whatever.
You know, just leave it alone.
It's not going to affect theway your grandchild turns out
and all it's going to do isdistance you from this part of
their life.
My closing advice on this forparents is for the parents of

(45:44):
adult children who aregrandparents is the most
important thing you can do is tomake your kids and their
partner feel confident andcompetent as parents Because,
especially if this is theirfirst child, it's an
anxiety-provoking situation foreverybody.
It is a difficult situation.
You are sleep-deprived.

(46:05):
You don't know how to interpretdifferent things your baby does
.
You're worried all the time.
If you're a woman, there's avery good chance you're going to
, if not, have postpartumdepression.
You're going to have the babyblues.
You're not going to be yourselfas a grandparent.
Do what you can to make theirlife easier.
Don't make their life moredifficult.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
So when you say make them feel good as parents, are
you saying you should say what agreat mom you are, what a great
dad you are.
Yes, Always give them accoladesfor and you know how hard it is
and what a great job they'redoing.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Exactly, and if you see them do something good, say
I really handled that, that wasgreat.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
Yeah yeah, sort of the old fashioned point out what
they're doing, right, all right, as I've said, I say in my
intro, this book covers so manytopics, everything We've not
been able to cover everything.
I wish we could.
I hope everyone gets the book.
But before we close, and evenif you've said it before, I like
my guests to leave ourlisteners with one or two key

(47:05):
points that they really hopethey'll take away from this
interview.
What would those one or two I'mgoing to say two or three key
points be from you?

Speaker 1 (47:12):
Okay, Well, the first one is to stop thinking
something along the lines ofwhen I was your age.
In other words, don't judgeyour child's progress using the
timetable that you followed whenyou were growing through young
adulthood.
And a lot of parents worry thattheir kids are floundering when

(47:34):
in fact they're on a completelynormal timetable for today's
standards.
I meet lots of parents who arejust word sick that their child
isn't married and they'realready 30 years old.
Well, guess what?
The average age of marriageamong college educated people is
around 32 or so.
So, if your child isn't married, at development of autonomy and

(48:04):
their development ofindependence, and figure out
ways to support that rather thanto challenge it.
Make your child feel moreconfident in their decisions,
not more worried about whatthey're doing.
And then, finally, if they'reabout to do something that is
going to be harmful andirreparable and dangerous, speak

(48:27):
up.
Other than that, unless yourkid asks for advice, keep it to
yourself.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
I love that.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate you givingme this time today.
I loved your book.
I hope everyone will read it.
It's a lot of work on bothsides, I think, but I think once
parents realize what their roleis, the transition and the
development of a goodrelationship will come.
Yes, absolutely.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, I enjoyed theconversation.
Well, that's a wrap.

(48:54):
I really enjoyed chatting withDr Steinberg.
He's given us a differentperspective for sure.
We all need to have morecompassion for the world our
young adults are living in rightnow.
When he said that real estateprices have risen five times
faster than salaries, it letsyou know how hard it really is
to get a solid financial footingtoday.

(49:14):
Also, the whole idea offamilies living together.
As long as everyone'sproductive, it might be a
win-win for all.
The hard part is setting up theboundaries and the rules.
That's difficult.
Finally, I love the 70-40 rule.
Talk to our kids about financesby the time they are 40 and
before we are 70.
It makes good sense.
He sure got a handle on thisworld of adult children and

(49:37):
their parents.
I hope this resonated with youas it did for me.
Don't forget the name of hisbook is you and your Adult Child
how to Grow Together DuringChallenging Times.
It's available at Amazon, atyour local bookstore or even on
audio.
Lots of great information.
Thanks so much for listening.
Thank you also to ConnieGorant-Fisher, our audio

(49:58):
engineer, and I have to onceagain remind everyone to support
our work by going to ourwebsite at
BiteYourTonguePodcastcom.
Hit.
Support us For as little as $5,you can really keep us going.
Just buy us a virtual cup ofcoffee.
It's $5.
It would mean so much.
Have a great day everyone, andremember, sometimes you just

(50:21):
have to bite your tongue.
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