October 3, 2025 • 53 mins
The gods of our fathers are our devils. That's what the victorian feminists say an ancient Arabic proverb says. Knowing how much the people of the 19th century liked to embellish the mystical and such, we're not sure if that's actually a thing but it's a thing now because MJG said it. In this episode we tackle Peter and John’s epistles, then flip the script on Revelation with Matilda Joslyn Gage, reading it through symbols, numbers, and stars to uncover a fiercely feminist core. We push back on literalism, call out control, and dream of a world full of Jezebels.
Some highlights:
• subjection verses in Peter and John, Stanton’s rebuttal to wealth and “weaker vessels”
• apostles and patronage, “elect ladies,” class and comfort
• contested authorship of Revelation, the 9,200-word “letter”
• astrology, numerology, Kabbalah as interpretive keys
• the woman, the dragon, twelve stars: feminine principle vs material power
• literalism as a tool of control, symbolism as a path to agency
• speech, censorship, and why we refuse to quiet down
• closing the book proper; next up, Stanton’s appendix and letters
Join us. Join us. We must rebel. And that starts with a podcast of course.
This episode recorded in Bob's Basement Studios.
Credits
Recorded at Troubadour Studios in Lansing, MI
Audio Engineer Corey DeRushia
Edited by Rie Daisies at Nighttime Girlfriend Studio
Music: ‘Shifting pt. 2 (instrumental)’ by Rie Daisies
Have some feedback? Praise? General thoughts? Know how to pronounce something? Are you a religious scholar? We'd love to hear from you. Leave a message right from your phone or computer by clicking here. Recordings may be used in future episodes.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Yeah, you're just rich and gross.
You're not you're stupid.
And I don't even like money.
Yeah.
I just like the things it buysme.
SPEAKER_01 (00:11):
Like global conquest.
Buys me small countries.
I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (00:20):
It's the podcast that Sly Serpent warned you
about.
Welcome to Biting All theApples, where two gals discuss
one radical book.
SPEAKER_01 (00:28):
The best-selling, critical, and comedic
masterpiece from 1895, TheWoman's Bible by Elizabeth Katie
Stanton.
We love her.
SPEAKER_02 (00:49):
I'm Sarah Kay.
I'm Joanna V.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
This episode will be a revelation.
You can count on it.
Especially because we're in thelast bits and books of the
woman's Bible.
That's very spooky the way Isaid it.
Bits and bobs.
That's good for two and newts,eyes of the woman's Bible.
We're going to discuss ourreaction to our favorite
(01:14):
Victorian feminist response.
Reaction, response, get it?
Responses.
To the epistles, to Peter andJohn and the Book of Revelation.
Ooh.
Revealing.
It's very revealing.
It is.
Wait till you see.
Just when you think to yourself,girl, girl, self, these
(01:38):
Victorian thinkers haveenlightened and expanded so many
nooks and crannies of an oldbook everyone takes for granted,
or worse, at its actual word,you think, is it possible to
learn or be surprised byanything else?
Well, the great Matilda JocelynGage returns to give fascinating
insight into the book ofRevelation.
(02:01):
And it involves astrology,women, and dragons.
Yeah.
So yeah, this is gonna be cool.
But first, it's been a coupleweeks since we last spoke to
y'all, so it wouldn't be cool ifwe didn't remind you of our
disclaimers.
Gotta have them.
SPEAKER_02 (02:16):
Biting all the apples covers analysis of
religious texts.
Some listeners that arereligious out of the need for
the illusion of certainty mayfind the content offensive.
Biting all the apples alsodiscusses historic texts and
feminist movements.
We recognize that individuals,groups, and alternative
movements have been left out ofthe mainstream history.
(02:38):
We will note that wheneverpossible.
We are open to additionalinformation provided to us in
the spirit of expandingknowledge.
Knowledge?
SPEAKER_01 (02:51):
We're just talking about we're just talking about
knowledge.
It's gonna be the new currency.
And we'd probably be rich.
We would be so rich.
If knowledge was money, I'd havea lot of it.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
That was really cool analogy.
unknown (03:07):
If I had be rich.
SPEAKER_02 (03:09):
It is late.
Our analogies are weak.
SPEAKER_01 (03:12):
Yeah.
So Joanna was gallivantingaround.
I was.
And so we had to do a quickcheck up, check, check in.
Yeah, I haven't been.
And that lasted probably fivetimes as long as this podcast
was.
SPEAKER_02 (03:25):
Well, it's important.
You had to fill me in.
I was like, I checked out.
And then I was like, oh, I wishI was still checked out.
SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
What a week to not wow.
Not uh checking on any news.
Good for you though.
Look, and you're still alive.
SPEAKER_02 (03:40):
Yeah, because I mean I would have been worried.
Actually, yeah, I was a littleworried going um to I went to
California right near the borderthere of Mexico.
And I wasn't worried, but thenmy husband was like, you gotta
keep a real good eye on our ourkit because she's brown.
And I was like, oh god, yeah, Ihaven't watched the news.
(04:02):
And so that but nothing.
Yeah, I had nothing to worryabout.
Like there was it was great.
Um being in a big city.
Almost everybody was brown.
So it was like majority brown.
It was lovely.
I love SoCale.
It was yeah, it made me veryhappy.
It was glory, yeah, because Ihad no idea what was going on in
the world.
I tried very hard to just enjoy.
(04:22):
And he came back, and now andnow reality is I guess we're
terrorists.
Yeah.
Who knew it was me that I had toworry about?
SPEAKER_01 (04:31):
I know, of the worst kind.
Oh my gosh.
So she hadn't heard of theexecutive order that came out.
And then I read it on the crazyWhite House page.
Woo! It's extensive.
Usually the act of uh fiction.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:48):
Yeah, and it's very elaborate fiction.
What is the title of it again?
It's the viol political violencesomething.
Yeah.
Wham wham wham.
SPEAKER_02 (04:56):
Yeah, because usually I go on there and read
them and they're like um 10sentences long and ridiculous,
of course.
But this was like extensiveridiculousness with details of
people messing with exposingreality.
unknown (05:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (05:12):
We will have nobody talk about.
The man behind the curtain.
Pay no attention to the manbehind the orge facade.
SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
We're laughing because I mean, yeah, that it's
probably terrifying, but alsofuck off.
Yeah, exactly.
Definitely.
The plan is to silence allopposition.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:39):
You want us all scared and chicken in our boots.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
I know.
A little snowflake.
They do a lot of projectinggoing on in these days.
Yeah, it's funny.
I know for the past well,actually, since we started this,
we're like, we don't know howlong we'll be able to do this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:53):
And now we don't know how long we'll be able to
do this.
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
Yeah, exactly.
We don't know how long we'll beable to speak.
We don't know what's going onthere.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy.
But check out that executiveorder.
Although it is an executiveorder, it's not like there's any
teeth.
Although he's been going prettyfar with all this far.
SPEAKER_02 (06:12):
Well, yeah, because he he knows no one is checking
it.
Because, you know, I don't knowif you've seen our Supreme Court
like a top Obel Supreme.
SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
Exactly.
And so I stand by what I hadtold myself when all this
started.
The best way to say stay safe inopposition is to keep speaking
up and to encourage other peopleto speak up.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (06:37):
Do not stay silent.
No, get louder.
Get louder, get louder, getlouder.
SPEAKER_01 (06:42):
The alternative is everybody's like, just lay low.
But then you will be left withthe culture that brought us that
memorial service.
SPEAKER_02 (06:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
That will be that'll be the predominant AI Christian
speeches and stuff.
So those are your choices.
And it's not something that theI think people are starting to
realize this kind of isn'tsomething you can lay low
through.
SPEAKER_02 (07:10):
No, and I've noticed it's not a lot of churches are
speaking out now.
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
Really?
SPEAKER_02 (07:15):
Yeah, they're finally like, okay, guys.
It's a little bit too much.
Yeah.
Uh it's time you speak to thecongregation.
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:27):
And let's get real.
SPEAKER_01 (07:29):
Let's get real.
For real.
Yeah.
How's it been for you to like dothis religion-related project
where now I'm like, I can't tellif it's just because we've been
doing this, or if is itexternal?
Like there's like a cosmic shiftto this force of this type of
(07:53):
American Christian nationalismthat's now mainstreamed out.
Yeah.
It's so crazy.
Yeah, just get talking outearlier today.
I was like, I need moreadjectives.
I keep on being like, it'sweird.
It's crazy.
SPEAKER_02 (08:05):
But it, I mean, yeah.
But yes, I have seen a lot morejust the whole construct of
religion in general, like awhole turn of like, do it.
Is this relevant?
Right.
Where do all the problems start?
SPEAKER_00 (08:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (08:21):
And we're not different.
You know, that's kind of how itstarted for me is like learning
about all the religions andgoing, oh, well, they're very
similar.
Why are we fighting?
And then learning through thisexperience that probably all the
(08:42):
religions started with thecontrol in mind.
Yes.
With the exception of likeNative American spiritualism and
Buddhism, um, where they arelike just take care of the earth
and the well a lot, yeah, theearth religions.
SPEAKER_01 (08:59):
The earth very much.
Yeah.
And then what we're seeing aswe've worked through this book
and then done the extraresearch, a lot of the stories
are pulled from those religions.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:11):
And now I'm bummed, I'll have to put it in the this
is a great one, but how do Icontrol people with that?
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
We're like, we need to put an angry man at the top.
We need a little, I need moredrama.
Yeah, we need a more king-likefigure.
There was uh, I wouldn't forgetthe name, but the Celtic
mythology with the two brothers.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, Cain and Abel were like,oh my, yeah, they just picked
this crap up.
SPEAKER_02 (09:39):
They were like, ooh, that's good.
I'm gonna change, I'm gonnatweak that a little bit.
Which is plagiarism.
Exactly.
They should know that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:47):
Citizens arrest.
SPEAKER_02 (09:50):
Citizens arrest.
Going church to church and belike, get that book out of the
rest of the book out of theirplagiarism all the satanic
plagiarism.
You didn't you didn't make thatstory.
Nobody prophesied that.
He stole it from an Irishman.
So I still so it's been a goodone.
SPEAKER_01 (10:11):
In general, I'm just tripping out.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, every day.
Every day.
So I just did the lip smack.
I'm like, so let's get into it.
You know what we're gettinginto?
This is episode 24, and we're inthe last parts of this book.
These ladies, if do you thinkthey could have thought that
(10:32):
they would help us through anauthoritarian takeover?
SPEAKER_02 (10:35):
I think they would like it.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
I think they would like it.
I think they would be veryhappy.
SPEAKER_02 (10:38):
Or they often look I often stare into Elizabeth's
eyes on my book, and I'm like,we have little little chats.
Maybe she's sending me prophecy.
SPEAKER_01 (10:49):
Maybe she'd start to be like, I saw prophecy.
SPEAKER_02 (10:52):
Women.
Elizabeth came to me and shesaid, We must band together and
overthrow.
She's she talks like she's fromladies.
Mrs.
SPEAKER_01 (11:04):
Snipping.
SPEAKER_02 (11:07):
Ladies, it's enough of the chit-chat.
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
Get out on the streets.
I again I think they actuallywouldn't believe how this is
still the same.
SPEAKER_02 (11:15):
Which definitely the closing line is like we're on
the upward swing.
And I'm like, oh, we were.
And then we hit a big wall.
But I'll tell you what.
If you can swing up once, youcan do it again.
Yeah, and even better.
Because I mean you would they dosay what, like two steps back,
(11:37):
no, one step back, two stepforwards.
But I do think we are in itthree steps back.
Um, sadly, one step forward.
SPEAKER_01 (11:45):
Okay, what are we doing?
We're do you know what we'regetting into this?
Epistles.
SPEAKER_02 (11:48):
Epistles, another letter.
They're but this is different.
This is Peter and John.
This is not Paul.
SPEAKER_01 (11:54):
Oh, so Peter and John wrote this?
SPEAKER_02 (11:55):
Yeah.
To whom?
Well, I did not look that up,but I'm assuming they wrote to
some they're like a generalletter.
General letters to letter to theeditor.
SPEAKER_01 (12:06):
All the churches that they touched.
And this is only two pages inthe women's Bible.
The epistles of Peter and John.
And you're not gonna believewhat the topic is.
Likewise, ye wives, be insubjection to your own husbands.
That if any obey not the word,they may without the word be won
(12:28):
by the conversation of thewives.
SPEAKER_02 (12:31):
Because the wives are just gonna say what the
husband says.
SPEAKER_01 (12:34):
Yeah, and then he then he goes on to talk about
adorning.
SPEAKER_02 (12:38):
I really like the last one.
It's like, likewise, yehusbands, dwell with them
according to the knowledge,giving honor unto the wife, as
unto the weaker vessel.
So, like we're a weaker vessel.
Like you're pouring yourknowledge into your wife so she
can pour it out to somebodyelse.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
It's so clear that these dudes were like, Oh my
god, women can have babies.
We have got to write this.
SPEAKER_02 (13:04):
Yeah, it's like they probably really want to make
babies.
They do they do go through likea thing.
They're like, I can't make ababy.
Come on, that probably is like abig problem.
I mean, that's from thebeginning of time.
Like they're like, wait aminute, I want to grow a shit.
SPEAKER_01 (13:18):
I feel like it was always a problem.
This is just when it becameyeah, yeah.
So, and then yeah, it's only ththree little verses, and he
talks about adorning again,don't plate the hair, which I
believe is braiding.
Yeah.
Or wearing gold.
So, some more picky dude shit.
And Elizabeth is the one thatresponds to this.
SPEAKER_02 (13:37):
Yeah, and the biggest thing I love this little
paragraph here.
Um, because she is about, she'slike, Why do they want to
control us?
All this stuff, and they'relike, have these good virtues,
but yet control your wife.
Then she picks out women's loveof satins, velvets, laces, and
jewels has its correspondingexpression in man's love of
(13:58):
wealth, of position, and hisambition for personal and family
aggrandizement.
So, like, money pours intoeverything, even back then.
And she said, There's much talkof the poor and needy,
especially during politicalcampaigns.
Oh.
In the autumn of 1896, when theworking man's interests formed
(14:21):
the warp and woof of everyspeech, 3,000 children stood in
the streets of New York City,for whom there was no room in
the schoolhouses and noplaygrounds, and yet thousands
of dollars were spent in buyingboats.
(14:41):
Large, well-ventilated homes forthose who do the work of the
world, plenty of schoolhousesand playgrounds for children of
the poor would be much morebeneficial to the race than
expensive monuments to dead menand large appropriations from
the public treasury for holidayand convivial occasions to honor
(15:01):
men in high places.
And this is when they wereputting up the statues of the
Confederates.
SPEAKER_01 (15:08):
That was all part of trying to scare the shit out of
freed people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:13):
They're like, vote for me.
The poor need help, but uh, I'mgonna spend all this money
putting up a statue and thesepoor kids standing on the
street.
So sorry.
Same thing of the women doingall the work in a church and all
the laws are against them.
SPEAKER_01 (15:28):
So exactly.
Exactly.
This could be if you justreplaced um thousands of dollars
with millions, billions.
Billions, actually.
Yeah, billions.
That's another thing I don'tunderstand why modern citizens
just do not rise up becauseevery election, billions get
spent.
SPEAKER_02 (15:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:48):
This last election was nuts.
SPEAKER_02 (15:50):
Where did that money go?
I'm very um curious.
SPEAKER_01 (15:53):
Well, you won't know because some of the money is
hidden.
But the fact that it's been likethat, it can't continue to be
like that.
SPEAKER_02 (16:04):
But they tell us right here.
Do tell.
It's fair to infer that what hehas done in the past, he will
continue to do in the future.
Unless she, that means women,yep, yeah, rebels outright.
He will make her a slave, asubject, the mere reflection of
another human will.
SPEAKER_01 (16:24):
Okay, so as a terrorist, I want to say that we
as an hey gals, ladies, itactually is up to us.
SPEAKER_02 (16:33):
It's up to us.
Time to stop and make the worldnotice.
We're not gonna take it.
No, we're gonna take it.
We're not gonna take it anymore.
Join us.
(16:54):
Join us.
It's time.
It is time.
This is the future.
We must rebel outright.
We must.
SPEAKER_01 (17:02):
But we can't do it alone.
Yeah, and we gotta finish thisepisode.
But before we right after this,at Join us.
Yeah, join us.
SPEAKER_02 (17:08):
October 18th.
SPEAKER_01 (17:10):
No, see, there's so many tangents here, but she
brought up politics, and Icouldn't help.
SPEAKER_02 (17:15):
Yeah, that's good.
No, it was perfect.
And obviously, we should takeher advice.
SPEAKER_01 (17:20):
We take her advice, so I hope you appreciate that
call to action.
Okay, next, what's the nextsituation?
Oh, this is good because this isan another very modern thing.
Oh, the John.
So they she but she picked fourverses from John's epistle.
And in the verses, I'm like, butit's just some crap about fancy
(17:40):
people.
Yeah.
But the main thing is So she'stalking about the elder unto the
elect lady.
It's about this whole eminentand honorable Christian women
and treating them.
SPEAKER_02 (17:52):
But I think that the ba the basic thing is that
apostles relied on thewell-to-do ladies to take care
of them as they traveled aroundspreading the word.
SPEAKER_01 (18:03):
And they preferred that to just sleeping like in
sackcloth or whatever.
SPEAKER_02 (18:08):
I mean, do you think they'd find them in a stable?
Yeah.
Not a change.
SPEAKER_01 (18:13):
So that is very interesting.
Yeah, because um You see thishere.
In in their travels about thecountry, the apostles especially
enjoyed the hospitality offamilies of rank through
democrat oh, sorry, thoughdemocratic in their principles,
they were susceptible to theattractions of wealth and of
culture.
SPEAKER_02 (18:33):
They're like, we're important.
And I can no longer sleep on afloor of hay.
SPEAKER_01 (18:41):
What would Jesus think?
I know, and I think you gotupset.
You really went against thething.
I told you my own note says starfuckers.
unknown (18:50):
Yes, that's right.
SPEAKER_02 (18:53):
That is true.
Just true.
They're like, ooh, they got alittle taste of fame.
They're like, wealthy late, allthe ladies.
Who wants an apostle?
SPEAKER_01 (19:03):
So he even wrote it down.
He was like, You put me up forthe night, I'll write an
epistle.
Put your name in it, sweet lady.
Lady elect.
Yeah, this is in case there'sany biblical people following.
It was what's the say?
Two, John, one verse.
One, five, six, and twelve.
They're kind of like, don't evenread it.
It's really boring.
SPEAKER_02 (19:20):
It's just the elder onto the elect lady and her
children.
The children were probablylovely.
But now, yeah, that was it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:28):
That was it.
That's the epistles.
There's only one thing left todo with a Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (19:37):
It's the heavy hitter.
It's the most contested.
Is it real?
Is it not?
Does it belong in the Bible?
Does it not depends on yourreligion?
Some people don't like it.
We're like, what book?
And no one understands it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:54):
Well, maybe somebody knows.
The timing is great.
Because how does Revelation fitinto uh the rapture?
SPEAKER_02 (20:01):
Oh, it is.
Is it?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:04):
I don't know.
Yes, Revelation is where theyget sucked up and then Well, no,
the rapture is like a made-upthing from the 19th century.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (20:12):
But it ties into like good over evil.
So, but whoever took Revelationand was like, oh, that must mean
all us good people are gonna getsucked up to live in the clouds,
and all the bad people are justgonna live in the sewage pit of
Earth.
SPEAKER_01 (20:30):
Oh.
As we are right now.
I love living in the sewage ofthe phone.
So we have Revelation chapterone.
Is this um MJ MJG?
So remember um Matilda JocelynGage was the super smart lady.
She's part of the Freethinkers.
Her son-in-law was inspired byher.
(20:53):
He was Frank Baum who wrote TheWizard of Oz.
Wizard of Oz.
The term Matilda effect is namedafter her.
So we see a return of her words,and she comes back and she's
really good.
So they get so it says uhRevelation chapter one,
Revelation one through four.
(21:13):
And this is when he's talkingabout the seven churches.
Is it Asia specifically?
So explain this.
This is Roman Empire crap.
SPEAKER_02 (21:20):
It is Roman.
So the person that wrote this isnamed John, and that is
something that we've learnedthat like they're like, we don't
know who this John is.
But he had a vision and he wroteit down.
So some people think it's likerevelations.
It's just one revel, it was onevision with a lot of detail.
SPEAKER_01 (21:40):
Tons of detail.
How many so much detail?
Okay, so this is what Joannatold me before we started.
The book of Revelation is howmany?
It's like a bajillion pages.
SPEAKER_02 (21:49):
Well, it's just it's the longest letter.
No, it's it was so most lettersin that time were like 97 to 200
words.
This letter had 9,200 words.
That's quite a vision.
And it was like a thousandpercent increase.
SPEAKER_01 (22:06):
It was a thousand percent increase.
Nobody's seen anything like it.
Nothing.
It was the big leaf.
It was the greatest letter.
People tell me this is thegreatest book ever.
It's the best one.
The best book.
That's what people say.
That's what people say.
Um they're just saying that theyrevealed it in revelations.
SPEAKER_02 (22:24):
And he sent it to seven churches, this this
revelation.
Blessed is he that readeth, andthey that hear the words of this
prophecy, and keep those thingswhich are written therein for
the time is at hand.
And if it was at hand back then,boy, boy.
(22:45):
This time at hand is reallylong.
SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
That's how yeah, it's a big hand.
Also, want to point out so thisentire book, Revelation, we have
another example of a gentlemanhaving a vision.
Oh yeah, all alone and justbeing like, just trust me.
Jesus came back and he told methis shit.
SPEAKER_02 (23:07):
Told me, he said, I'm gonna show you a bunch of
stuff, write it in a book.
Yeah, write it down.
There will be destruction ofanything you write down.
Yeah, just keep it between meand you, and you're the only one
that knows, but share it witheverybody.
And if people don't believe you,tell them they'll get murdered.
SPEAKER_01 (23:27):
Yeah, and they're not welcome into the next
kingdom.
So, and we'll see, as Batilla'sgonna point out, and then some
of the research we did, thethere is so much symbolism in
this.
Seven is a recurring theme.
SPEAKER_02 (23:43):
I thought this was like your chapter because you
are into astrology.
I am, and that is what um theywere saying.
And I love this crap.
So, John Morley, he must be oneof the um people that like
looked at the Bible and gavetheir viewpoints.
Um, once said, I forgot whatthey're gonna commentators or
(24:05):
whatever.
We're like, it's very late.
We're like, what are they?
Thinkers, they're the thinkers.
SPEAKER_01 (24:09):
He's a biblical pundit.
SPEAKER_02 (24:10):
But he talked to the priests and he said, We shall
not attack you, we shall explainyou.
The book of Revelation, properlyrevealings, um, which is just
another name they're revealing.
This is Matilda's words, yeah.
Cannot even be approximatelyexplained without some knowledge
(24:31):
of astrology.
It is purely esoteric work,largely referring to women, her
intuition, her spiritual powers,and all she represents.
Even the name of its puitiveauthor, John, is identical in
meaning with Dove, which is theemblem of the Holy Ghost, the
(24:55):
female principle in thedivinity.
And I actually looked that upbecause apparently the Holy
Ghost in Hebrew is feminine inits what is that, entomology?
Yes, yeah.
So it's a feminine word.
Um, so the Holy Spirit,apparently, according to our
lady and many other scholarsthroughout the years, was always
(25:18):
feminine.
Interesting.
Um, so maybe John Morley wasmaybe a a guy that was um with
the priest because he says, Wewe won't attack you, we'll
explain you, I'll tell you whatthe revelation is.
And she's like, Okay.
She's like, fine.
SPEAKER_01 (25:34):
But she but bring back the women.
The other thing, the uhVictorian gals, they are in an
era where the occult inspiritualism was very big.
So I'm sure she was pretty wellversed in all of this stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (25:47):
So my god, yeah, because she that's why I said I
was like, ooh, Sarah's gonnaexplain this to me.
SPEAKER_01 (25:52):
So this I'm gonna explain, I'll explain
everything.
Open the revelation.
She writes the book came downfrom old Egyptian mystery,
doesn't quote times, and was oneof the profoundly sacred and
profoundly secret books of thegreat temple of Luxor.
The words sacred and secretpossessing the same meaning
during these mysteries.
(26:13):
All knowledge was ancientlyconcealed in the mysteries,
letters, numbers, astrology, isin parentheses, until the 16th
century, identical withastronomy, alchemy, the parent
of chemistry, these and allother sciences were hidden from
the common people.
Even to all initiates, the mostimportant part of the mysteries
(26:34):
was not revealed.
This is where, and I know otherpeople are doing this work, but
I love the idea, you know, wewere going over the Kabbalah.
Oh, yeah, yep.
The numerology and the tarotstuff involved in that.
It is it is all connected.
And then going back toPythagoreans, yeah, they're
like, it's all math.
SPEAKER_02 (26:55):
Yeah, exactly.
Which is funny because myfather-in-law has always told me
everything is math.
Isn't that trippy?
It's true, and it's true, andI'm not good at it.
SPEAKER_01 (27:08):
No, you're thinking I'm not good at the math that
the old uh capitalist meatgrinder school tried to tell you
what math was.
SPEAKER_02 (27:19):
But math of the universe, I might be really good
at exactly like empathy plushumanity equals equals a
thousand percent.
SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
This is where I do wish that I had a visual because
apparently there's like a wheelof revelation, and there's a lot
of stuff about how you canoverlay that with the 12
astrological signs.
Yeah, yeah.
Where my knowledge, because Iwas like, oh, I want to know
more about this, but peoplegotta remember when we're
(27:51):
talking about astrology, likethe astrology, I know you know,
been a hobbyist or whatever.
That's Western astrology.
Okay.
There are different, you know,houses.
I did look up the Hebrewastrology, they do have the same
names like Virgo, Gemini, andbut the the idea that the
planets possess certainqualities, and that mimics a lot
(28:12):
of what you'll see in like Greekmythology.
Yeah, because even their godswere named after planets, they
were named after planets, butyou know, stuff like uh the
planet of Saturn is is very maleand controlling and sometimes
angry, and Venus is love, love,and beauty, aestheticism, and
(28:33):
all that jazz.
So interesting.
What's Uranus?
Uranus.
Actually, Uranus.
So um people like AlbertEinstein have like strong Uranus
Uranus is how am I sayingUranus?
SPEAKER_02 (28:49):
Well, they used to say Uranus and now they say
Uranus.
SPEAKER_01 (28:51):
I'm gonna say Uranus.
People make fun of me when I saysymbolus.
SPEAKER_02 (28:55):
I know 80s.
SPEAKER_01 (28:57):
And I forget, I think the other thing to
remember is back then the beliefthat there were like seven
planets, but they also believethat like the moon was a planet.
Yeah.
So I don't I don't know thattimeline of that.
Anyways, but Uranus is or Uranususually symbolizes unorthodox,
new, outside of the boxthinking, like revolutionary.
unknown (29:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:22):
Oh, I like that one.
Yeah.
How do you get in that house?
I'll check your I'll check yourchart.
Check my oh, I gotta find mybird.
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
All right.
There's so much so Matilda'sresponse to this is so
fascinating.
So she goes through this list ofthese different religious
leaders and talking about howthey're everybody's pish poshing
in Revelation.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (29:44):
Can I read this?
Because so she said some peopledispute it and say like it
shouldn't belong in the Bible.
And then she says its mysticcharacter has been vaguely
surmised by the later church,which while claiming to be an ex
the explanation.
Exponent of spiritual things hasyet taught the grossest
(30:04):
materialism and from no part ofthe Bible more fully than from
Revelation.
This is my favorite part becauseshe uses the word literal like
10 times.
I know.
I'm like, I have this sohighlighted.
It asserts a literal coming ofChrist in the literal clouds of
heaven, riding a literal horse,while Gabriel, angel of the
(30:28):
moon, with a literal trump witha literal trumpet sounds time.
This um, oh sorry, a literaltrumpet sounds the blast of the
earth's destruction.
A literal devil is to be boundfor a thousand years, during
which the time saints are todwell on earth.
(30:50):
She's like, guys, literally, areyou literally it says this?
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
And I wonder how much they actually used literal.
These women write with suchproperness, and yeah, that's why
you know how we I say literallyall the time.
Right.
And people, you know, grammarpeople are like, that's not what
it means.
I'm like, well, that's what itmeans now.
Now it does.
But she's like, literal devil.
And then just yeah, and everyman to have a farm, as once I
(31:18):
heard a devout Methodistdeclare, but there will not be
land enough for that objectedbrother.
Oh, well, the earth is nowtwo-thirds water, and that will
be dried up, was the reply.
To such straits have Christiansbeen driven in their efforts to
comprehend this book.
They're like, You sound like anidiot.
Yeah, it would be literally so Iin what she's trying to say,
(31:40):
she's like, it is like lookingat like an astrology wheel or a
chart and being like, No, itsays right here, like Venus is
gonna come, and then Libra isgonna, and you're like, you're
like that.
Stop trying to think of it soliterally.
Yeah, it's more like it's sofull of symbolism, and it makes
me want to read the whole thing,but 9,000 words, who has the
(32:02):
time?
I gotta read more think piecesabout the orange devil.
Yeah, and she mentioned thiswhole thing.
We always I think every episode,I'm like, you gotta read this.
You're gonna read the wholething, but it's so delicious,
especially if you are into theoccult.
And back in the 19th century,people really took it seriously.
(32:25):
This guy she mentioned, ElpheusLevi.
Um, and he was an like a superoccultist.
Oops, I'm doing here.
I wrote down something.
SPEAKER_02 (32:35):
Scientist.
SPEAKER_01 (32:36):
He was an occultist, and he considered the biblical
book of Revelation to be amasterpiece of occult science.
He believed that the book'scomplex imagery and prophecies
could not be understoodliterally and required a secret
esoteric key for interpretation.
And his analysis draws onmultiple esoteric systems,
including the Kabbalah,astrology and numerology, and
(33:00):
tarot.
And he associated the 22 majorarcana of the tarot with the
Hebrew alphabet, which and youknow the Hebrew alphabet is
related to numbers, everything'sabout man.
That's research.
Send it to my accountant.
Yeah.
(33:20):
We can't.
So she says, while even apartial comprehension of
reveiling, some knowledge ofastrology is required.
It is no less true that thewhole Bible from Genesis to
Revelation demands a knowledgeof astrology, of letters, and of
numbers with theirinterchangeable values as they
(33:41):
were understood by those whowrote it.
A book written by initiates forinitiates.
So here's think about that.
And not only do they not look atthe occult, you are told it's
(34:02):
bad.
It's demonic.
Yeah.
I remember I was checking myhoroscope near my grandmother,
and she was like, Oh, you know,like, what are you reading?
Satan's that's that's somewitchcraft.
So here we have an intelligentwoman who is part of the free
thinker movement saying, Youactually can't understand this.
(34:24):
The common person can'tunderstand this unless unless
you have this stuff.
But you have the people high upin the church being like, Oh,
that stuff is satanic.
So, what that tells you is theydon't want you to understand it.
SPEAKER_02 (34:37):
Yet they believe in a man that said he was talking
to a burning bush.
Like, right.
SPEAKER_01 (34:43):
Make it well, it gives men power.
Oh, yeah.
Blind faith is way more usefulthan educated, um populist
populist.
Thank you.
Yes, literally.
Literally.
Isn't that so?
It's just fantastic.
SPEAKER_02 (35:02):
I I like so um John, they don't know which John it
is.
He wrote this, he was banishedto an island because he was
speaking about religion and andthis revelation, whatever.
But he wrote, he wrote it onthis island when he was in
exile.
But it says that that's reallyin question.
A man, Professor Goldwyn Smith,in a recent work, recent
(35:26):
1896-ish, um, guesses, it'scalled Guesses at the Riddle of
Existence.
I love that everybody wasthinking about this even back
then.
It sounds like a great book.
I know, so cool.
Free thinkers.
Um, he thinks that we have butlittle reliable information as
to the writers of either the oldor the new testaments.
(35:47):
In this case, the style is sodifferent from that of John that
the same apostle could not havewritten both books.
So she's like, it's definitelynot the Apostle John.
Whoever wrote the Revelation wasevidently the victim of a
terrible and extravagantimagination and of visions which
(36:09):
make the blood curdle.
SPEAKER_00 (36:13):
East.
SPEAKER_01 (36:16):
I love it.
Then they she picks um a coupleof things.
Revelation 2, 18 through 23, andI'll just read you the last
verse in this.
And I will kill her children,and all the churches shall know
that I am he which searchessearcheth the hearts, and I will
give unto every one of youaccording to your works.
SPEAKER_02 (36:38):
Oh, my blood is curled! I know.
I'm like, that's creepy, it'sscary, and it's against women.
SPEAKER_01 (36:43):
I know.
Well, and this reminds me ofwhat we were talking about right
before.
So Revelation references the OldTestament, both in some of its
symbolism, its stories, theplaces they're talking about,
and in the super mean God.
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, lots ofchildren killing and stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (37:07):
Evidently.
SPEAKER_01 (37:08):
Evidently.
Oh, and Jezebel.
Oh yeah, reappears says,Notwithstanding, I have a few
things against thee because thousufferest that woman Jezebel,
which calleth herself a prophetto teach and seduce my servants.
SPEAKER_02 (37:24):
Damn those women.
SPEAKER_01 (37:25):
Women can't call themselves.
Oh no, it was not banned.
She wasn't bad.
And also, how come women can'thave like why can't they
prophesize?
Yeah.
But you have a dream and you getto write a whole book and it's
still here two thousand yearslater.
Come on.
SPEAKER_02 (37:41):
Yeah.
I told you what I think, or yousaid that actually, because I
was like, We have the samethoughts.
Because you know, we thinkthings all the time, right?
But I'm like, oh, maybe I justshould say someone sent it to
me, and it's a vision.
Yeah.
Instead of my own thoughts.
Because maybe these people werelike, I usually don't think.
And all of a sudden I saw abright light and I had all these
(38:03):
thoughts.
People be like, I'm a prophet!I'm a prophet, believe it.
SPEAKER_01 (38:08):
So this is more, and Elizabeth is talking again about
the idea of like what'sfigurative, what's literal.
I only had like the lastsentence.
Yeah, that's all I got.
Satan and women.
Yeah, Satan, Satan and women arethe chief characters in all the
frightful visions.
And the sacred period ofmaternity is made to illustrate
(38:28):
some of the most terribleupheavals in national life, as
between the old dragon and themother of the race.
Whatever this book was intendedto illustrate, its pictures are
painfully vivid.
There's no doubt, there's noquestioning.
SPEAKER_02 (38:43):
Women, you be bad, you little lover of slithering
snakes.
Disgust me.
Yeah, speaking of snakes, whatare we looking at?
Snakey snake.
Um, and this is MJG.
Okay, women were fleeing to thewilderness to prepare a place
for God.
Oh, there's a dragon.
(39:04):
That's what I love about it.
Yeah, we promised dragon.
I love a nice dragon.
And when the dragon saw that hewas cast onto the earth, he was
wroth with the woman, angry.
Because oh, so the woman senthim there.
And went to make war with theremnant of her seed.
Like, right?
What?
Go after the woman.
I want to get her seed, thatbaby.
Little baby blood.
(39:24):
Oh, really?
Yeah.
That's so dark.
Painfully vivid.
So a woman, um, and it's funnybecause they this is astrology
too.
She was clothed, clothed withthe sun and the moon under her
feet, and upon her head 12stars, which is so astrological,
right?
Absolutely.
She had a child, and there sheencountered the dragon that um
(39:48):
sent and sent her sent him toEarth, and he was not happy
about it.
Um, and then she goes on and shetalks about all the
constellations and how thatlines up to astrology.
So basically it's like anastrolog explaining the stars.
Right.
At an early day, serpents weremuch respected.
They were thought to have morepneuma.
(40:09):
Was that I think of penumbre,like the thing, or spirit,
because penumbre is the aura ofthe sun, right?
Or the spirit than any otherliving thing, and they were
termed fiery.
For this cause, high initiateswere called Naga or serpents of
wisdom.
And a living serpent was alwayscarried in the celebration of
(40:31):
mysteries.
During the brilliant 18th and19th Egyptian dynasties, Draco
was a great god.
But when this constellation lostits place in the heavens and
Thubians ceased to be guidingside real divinity, it shared
the fate of all fallen gods.
Quote, the gods of our fathersare our devils, says an Arabic
(40:54):
proverb, which I thought waslike damn.
That's pretty deep, right?
That's very deep.
Because I think about that andI'm like, oh.
Really?
Let that simmer in that.
Let simmer in that.
SPEAKER_01 (41:05):
Put the lid on, let it simmer.
Okay?
That is good.
I like here where she's talking.
Colors and jewels are parts ofastrology.
And ancient cities, as ectabana.
Sure.
Sure.
Were built and colored after theplanets.
Come on, is that true?
It is.
I looked it up.
How fucking cool is that?
(41:25):
What?
Yeah, the new Jerusalem.
But I'm like, I can't get overthat actually.
I'm just gonna go back to that.
I'm like, I want to have a wholecity where I'm like, welcome to
the Ruby town of Mars.
Yes! What if I got I would loveit?
The New Jerusalem of Reveilingsis purely an astrological city,
not to be understood without aknowledge of mystic numbers,
(41:49):
letters, jewels, and colors.
So also the four and twentyelders of reveilings are 24
stars of the Chaldean zodiaccounselors or judges, which rose
and set with it.
See, there's there are so many,I think I'm familiar with like
12 different zodiac things.
(42:10):
Things see that's how familiar Iam.
I'm an expert.
Um, so astrology was broughtinto great prominence by the
visit of the magi, the zodiacalconstellation Virgo, the woman
with a child ruling Palestine,in which country Bethlehem is
situated.
SPEAKER_02 (42:28):
They are the chosen ones, and here we are.
Here we are, um killing off anentire race as the world
watches.
Right.
It's insane.
When I read that, I was justlike, oh yeah.
When I read that, I was like,see, uh how did this all get
(42:49):
misconstrued?
And how did these people becauseI just I really obviously I
think a lot of us in the worldare half the time consumed with
what's happening in these placeswhere people are there's people
living in an awful situationright now.
SPEAKER_01 (43:07):
Palestine, Sudan, Palestine, Sudan, um, I don't
know.
Where else?
There's a like a um I don'tknow, don't get on a boat if
you're in Venezuela.
Oh yeah, don't let it.
It's so yeah.
It's crazy.
I'm actually I have a specialinterest in Virgo too.
And she is a woman with a childoriginally, and now Virgo is
(43:31):
seen as a woman that's likeholding like a harvest, or she's
like from the earth, yeah.
Oh, why did it change?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (43:39):
Ooh, but well, you're gonna look that up.
Find that for me.
I am going to look that up.
Yeah, so this is all um and anda lot of the constellation have
to do with the women.
So she talks about here thecrown of twelve spar stars again
above the head of theapocalyptic woman are the twelve
constellations of the zodiac.
(43:59):
Clothed with the sun, woman hererepresents the divinity of the
feminine.
Its spirituality as opposed tothe materiality of the
masculine.
For in Egypt, the sun as thegiver of life was regarded as
feminine, while the moon,shining by reflected light off
(44:21):
the sun, was looked upon asmasculine.
With her feet upon the moon,woman corresponding to and
representing the soul, portraysthe ultimate triumph of
spiritual things over materialthings, over the body, which man
or the male principlecorresponds to and represents.
(44:44):
Can we follow astrology?
Can we just you know,materialism?
It's ruined us.
SPEAKER_01 (44:48):
And this is sending my brain off to um the moon and
the sun and tarot.
So the sun is about creativeenergy and like external
creation and growth, and themoon reflects your inner
thoughts.
Ooh, that's in like tarot.
(45:09):
But mind you, tarot is like new,oh is compared compared to like
the Bible.
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (45:16):
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (45:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (45:17):
Now I was assuming that the tarot was directly
related to the Kabbalah.
No, no, no.
SPEAKER_01 (45:24):
Tarot's tarot's like kind of I'm like no.
No, but it matches.
Well, I was right.
I thought it was, I was gonnasay like three or four hundred
years, but it is um 580 yearsold.
SPEAKER_02 (45:33):
Oh, that is not old.
SPEAKER_01 (45:35):
Yeah, it's not that old.
SPEAKER_02 (45:36):
Interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (45:37):
Mm-hmm.
No idea.
Absolutely.
But the reason it made me thinkthat is because even as we're
reading symbols, if we'rereading like, so she's reading
these symbols from a 19thcentury perspective, this stuff
can flip.
(45:58):
Like, even the re you know, likewhat people thought um Scorpio
represented.
I mean, that could have changedover time.
Okay.
We could not, we don't really,you don't totally know.
So even the idea of trying to belike, that's what this means,
and crisis coming back onSeptember 24th.
I mean, where'd you get that?
That's that's old news.
So I had this.
(46:18):
There was a war.
Okay, this is I had this wholeparagraph underlined, if I may.
Go ahead.
There was a war treat yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (46:26):
Treat yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (46:27):
This is MJG.
There was a war in heaven, thewonderful progress and freedom
of women as women within thelast half century, despite the
false interpretation of theBible by the church and by
masculine power, is the resultof this great battle, and all
attempts to destroy her will befutile.
Who's who's she quoting?
(46:47):
This is another sometimes theseladies do a quote as if we're
it's like in popular culture.
SPEAKER_02 (46:53):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01 (46:54):
Anyway, sorry.
Despite the false interpretationof the Bible by the church and
by masculine power is the resultof this great battle, and all
attempts to destroy her will befutile.
Her day and hour have arrived.
The dragon of physical powerover her, the supremacy of
material things in the world, asdepicted by the male principle,
are yielding to the spiritualrepresented by women.
(47:18):
The eagle, true bird of the sun,an emblem of our own great
country, gives his wings to heraid, and the whole earth comes
to help her against herdestroyer.
So she's like, You guys haveread this all wrong.
Revelation is about women beinglike, actually, we're taking the
power back.
We're taking the power back, andthe power is in spirituality and
(47:39):
not your materialistic bullshit.
Yeah.
So maybe Revelation will be ourguidebook for these times.
Actually, no, because I'd belike, I'll be like, you guys can
read this, but you have to knownumerology, astrology,
astronomy.
You have to be me to understandit.
SPEAKER_02 (47:59):
Um the writers of the Bible, this is ECS.
Okay.
The writers of the Bible areprone to make women the standard
for all kinds of abominations.
And even motherhood, whichshould be held most sacred, is
used to illustrate the mostrevolting crimes.
Gross.
(48:20):
Um, this is the I just thiswhole last thing is fantastic.
Um why because this this wrapsit up, because this actually is
the end.
And actually, if you'relistening to the Audible book,
they're like, thank you.
I will now recommend you a newbook.
So they don't have our appendix.
SPEAKER_01 (48:37):
Oh, yeah, which we'll talk about in a minute.
But yeah, I can't believe weshouldn't just pause.
This is like the it only took us700 months to do this.
SPEAKER_00 (48:46):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (48:47):
This is it.
This is the end.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (48:49):
This is the end.
This is the final, this is yourperiod on the woman's Bible.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (48:54):
And it did by the way, this episode did come with
a call to action.
SPEAKER_02 (48:59):
Yes, it did.
Yes, it did.
And here, here it is.
Why so many different revisingcommittees of bishops and
clergymen should have retainedthis book as holy and inspiring
to the ordinary reader is amystery.
It does not seem possible thatthe divine John could have
(49:21):
painted these dark pictures ofthe struggles of humanity with
the spirit of evil.
Verily, we need an exparrogatededition of the Old and New
Testament.
So they said, right now, we needto clear up this Bible, get rid
of all this crap, and make itcorrect before they are fit to
(49:42):
be placed in the hands of ouryouth to be read in the public
schools and in the theologicalseminaries, especially if we
wish to inspire our childrenwith proper love and respect for
the mothers of the race.
SPEAKER_01 (50:09):
Any questions?
So, how do we transition fromthe mystical mystery of
revelation to telling you all toshare our podcast so everyone
can get caught up before we goover the extensive appendix
section of the women's Bible?
We just did it! We justtransitioned.
So yes.
(50:29):
In fact, I don't even know, Ihaven't even realized so we just
finished the book.
Well, I mean, we didn't finishit.
What we're seeing I mean, we didthough.
We finished the Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (50:38):
The murder and and what was released, the meat and
the potatoes.
SPEAKER_01 (50:42):
But we've got a side dish for y'all.
Oh, I love a side dish.
A little side dish.
Side dishes always make it.
Yeah.
The women's bible, the copy thatI have, or that we have, has a
whole they call it an appendix,which usually is boring.
Is boring or whatever, but thisis like letters that Elizabeth
(51:03):
has received and her responsesto stuff, and some other
commentators write about howthey did research.
So we, our next episode, we'regoing to be going through some
or all of that.
We'll see we'll see how thatbreaks up.
SPEAKER_02 (51:17):
And I love that because it's it's not gonna be
like the Bible verses, it'sgonna be like people of the time
going, dang girl.
What is this that you talkabout?
SPEAKER_01 (51:29):
Exactly.
So it's gonna be a real kicker.
Oh, I can't wait.
Yeah, it's good because I hateto, I don't like when you go
through a big thing that's justabrupt.
If we were just like, and thankyou, bye.
SPEAKER_02 (51:42):
And thank you.
That's the last episode.
Peace.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (51:44):
But these but these episodes will live on forever.
Yeah, you can re-listen to them.
You can re-listen to them likewe have to tell you.
I bet you have already listenedto all of our episodes several
times.
I know.
I could, you know, we can see.
Yes.
We love you all.
Well we're like on the wish.
Yeah, we're so until our nextepisode, ask yourself, what
(52:07):
would I do if a dragon showed upright now?
What if you were to step on themoon?
Ooh, yeah.
Just get mystical this week.
SPEAKER_02 (52:18):
That'll help you.
Get mystical.
Just get mystical.
Ask yourself, what would Jezebeldo?
SPEAKER_01 (52:24):
Mm-hmm.
And report back.
Tell me.
SPEAKER_02 (52:28):
Not Jezebel.
Do it, lady.
Get it.
Come on, it's time.
It's our time to rise.
Peace out.
Peace.
In the Middle East.
Yeah, you're just rich and gross.
You're not you're stupid.
And I don't even like money.
Yeah.
I just like the things it buysme.
SPEAKER_01 (00:11):
Like global conquest.
Buys me small countries.
I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (00:20):
It's the podcast that Sly Serpent warned you
about.
Welcome to Biting All theApples, where two gals discuss
one radical book.
SPEAKER_01 (00:28):
The best-selling, critical, and comedic
masterpiece from 1895, TheWoman's Bible by Elizabeth Katie
Stanton.
We love her.
SPEAKER_02 (00:49):
I'm Sarah Kay.
I'm Joanna V.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
This episode will be a revelation.
You can count on it.
Especially because we're in thelast bits and books of the
woman's Bible.
That's very spooky the way Isaid it.
Bits and bobs.
That's good for two and newts,eyes of the woman's Bible.
We're going to discuss ourreaction to our favorite
(01:14):
Victorian feminist response.
Reaction, response, get it?
Responses.
To the epistles, to Peter andJohn and the Book of Revelation.
Ooh.
Revealing.
It's very revealing.
It is.
Wait till you see.
Just when you think to yourself,girl, girl, self, these
(01:38):
Victorian thinkers haveenlightened and expanded so many
nooks and crannies of an oldbook everyone takes for granted,
or worse, at its actual word,you think, is it possible to
learn or be surprised byanything else?
Well, the great Matilda JocelynGage returns to give fascinating
insight into the book ofRevelation.
(02:01):
And it involves astrology,women, and dragons.
Yeah.
So yeah, this is gonna be cool.
But first, it's been a coupleweeks since we last spoke to
y'all, so it wouldn't be cool ifwe didn't remind you of our
disclaimers.
Gotta have them.
SPEAKER_02 (02:16):
Biting all the apples covers analysis of
religious texts.
Some listeners that arereligious out of the need for
the illusion of certainty mayfind the content offensive.
Biting all the apples alsodiscusses historic texts and
feminist movements.
We recognize that individuals,groups, and alternative
movements have been left out ofthe mainstream history.
(02:38):
We will note that wheneverpossible.
We are open to additionalinformation provided to us in
the spirit of expandingknowledge.
Knowledge?
SPEAKER_01 (02:51):
We're just talking about we're just talking about
knowledge.
It's gonna be the new currency.
And we'd probably be rich.
We would be so rich.
If knowledge was money, I'd havea lot of it.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
That was really cool analogy.
unknown (03:07):
If I had be rich.
SPEAKER_02 (03:09):
It is late.
Our analogies are weak.
SPEAKER_01 (03:12):
Yeah.
So Joanna was gallivantingaround.
I was.
And so we had to do a quickcheck up, check, check in.
Yeah, I haven't been.
And that lasted probably fivetimes as long as this podcast
was.
SPEAKER_02 (03:25):
Well, it's important.
You had to fill me in.
I was like, I checked out.
And then I was like, oh, I wishI was still checked out.
SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
What a week to not wow.
Not uh checking on any news.
Good for you though.
Look, and you're still alive.
SPEAKER_02 (03:40):
Yeah, because I mean I would have been worried.
Actually, yeah, I was a littleworried going um to I went to
California right near the borderthere of Mexico.
And I wasn't worried, but thenmy husband was like, you gotta
keep a real good eye on our ourkit because she's brown.
And I was like, oh god, yeah, Ihaven't watched the news.
(04:02):
And so that but nothing.
Yeah, I had nothing to worryabout.
Like there was it was great.
Um being in a big city.
Almost everybody was brown.
So it was like majority brown.
It was lovely.
I love SoCale.
It was yeah, it made me veryhappy.
It was glory, yeah, because Ihad no idea what was going on in
the world.
I tried very hard to just enjoy.
(04:22):
And he came back, and now andnow reality is I guess we're
terrorists.
Yeah.
Who knew it was me that I had toworry about?
SPEAKER_01 (04:31):
I know, of the worst kind.
Oh my gosh.
So she hadn't heard of theexecutive order that came out.
And then I read it on the crazyWhite House page.
Woo! It's extensive.
Usually the act of uh fiction.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:48):
Yeah, and it's very elaborate fiction.
What is the title of it again?
It's the viol political violencesomething.
Yeah.
Wham wham wham.
SPEAKER_02 (04:56):
Yeah, because usually I go on there and read
them and they're like um 10sentences long and ridiculous,
of course.
But this was like extensiveridiculousness with details of
people messing with exposingreality.
unknown (05:11):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (05:12):
We will have nobody talk about.
The man behind the curtain.
Pay no attention to the manbehind the orge facade.
SPEAKER_01 (05:25):
We're laughing because I mean, yeah, that it's
probably terrifying, but alsofuck off.
Yeah, exactly.
Definitely.
The plan is to silence allopposition.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:39):
You want us all scared and chicken in our boots.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
I know.
A little snowflake.
They do a lot of projectinggoing on in these days.
Yeah, it's funny.
I know for the past well,actually, since we started this,
we're like, we don't know howlong we'll be able to do this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:53):
And now we don't know how long we'll be able to
do this.
SPEAKER_01 (05:56):
Yeah, exactly.
We don't know how long we'll beable to speak.
We don't know what's going onthere.
Yeah, it's pretty crazy.
But check out that executiveorder.
Although it is an executiveorder, it's not like there's any
teeth.
Although he's been going prettyfar with all this far.
SPEAKER_02 (06:12):
Well, yeah, because he he knows no one is checking
it.
Because, you know, I don't knowif you've seen our Supreme Court
like a top Obel Supreme.
SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
Exactly.
And so I stand by what I hadtold myself when all this
started.
The best way to say stay safe inopposition is to keep speaking
up and to encourage other peopleto speak up.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (06:37):
Do not stay silent.
No, get louder.
Get louder, get louder, getlouder.
SPEAKER_01 (06:42):
The alternative is everybody's like, just lay low.
But then you will be left withthe culture that brought us that
memorial service.
SPEAKER_02 (06:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:55):
That will be that'll be the predominant AI Christian
speeches and stuff.
So those are your choices.
And it's not something that theI think people are starting to
realize this kind of isn'tsomething you can lay low
through.
SPEAKER_02 (07:10):
No, and I've noticed it's not a lot of churches are
speaking out now.
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
Really?
SPEAKER_02 (07:15):
Yeah, they're finally like, okay, guys.
It's a little bit too much.
Yeah.
Uh it's time you speak to thecongregation.
SPEAKER_01 (07:26):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:27):
And let's get real.
SPEAKER_01 (07:29):
Let's get real.
For real.
Yeah.
How's it been for you to like dothis religion-related project
where now I'm like, I can't tellif it's just because we've been
doing this, or if is itexternal?
Like there's like a cosmic shiftto this force of this type of
(07:53):
American Christian nationalismthat's now mainstreamed out.
Yeah.
It's so crazy.
Yeah, just get talking outearlier today.
I was like, I need moreadjectives.
I keep on being like, it'sweird.
It's crazy.
SPEAKER_02 (08:05):
But it, I mean, yeah.
But yes, I have seen a lot morejust the whole construct of
religion in general, like awhole turn of like, do it.
Is this relevant?
Right.
Where do all the problems start?
SPEAKER_00 (08:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (08:21):
And we're not different.
You know, that's kind of how itstarted for me is like learning
about all the religions andgoing, oh, well, they're very
similar.
Why are we fighting?
And then learning through thisexperience that probably all the
(08:42):
religions started with thecontrol in mind.
Yes.
With the exception of likeNative American spiritualism and
Buddhism, um, where they arelike just take care of the earth
and the well a lot, yeah, theearth religions.
SPEAKER_01 (08:59):
The earth very much.
Yeah.
And then what we're seeing aswe've worked through this book
and then done the extraresearch, a lot of the stories
are pulled from those religions.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:11):
And now I'm bummed, I'll have to put it in the this
is a great one, but how do Icontrol people with that?
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
We're like, we need to put an angry man at the top.
We need a little, I need moredrama.
Yeah, we need a more king-likefigure.
There was uh, I wouldn't forgetthe name, but the Celtic
mythology with the two brothers.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, Cain and Abel were like,oh my, yeah, they just picked
this crap up.
SPEAKER_02 (09:39):
They were like, ooh, that's good.
I'm gonna change, I'm gonnatweak that a little bit.
Which is plagiarism.
Exactly.
They should know that.
SPEAKER_01 (09:47):
Citizens arrest.
SPEAKER_02 (09:50):
Citizens arrest.
Going church to church and belike, get that book out of the
rest of the book out of theirplagiarism all the satanic
plagiarism.
You didn't you didn't make thatstory.
Nobody prophesied that.
He stole it from an Irishman.
So I still so it's been a goodone.
SPEAKER_01 (10:11):
In general, I'm just tripping out.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, every day.
Every day.
So I just did the lip smack.
I'm like, so let's get into it.
You know what we're gettinginto?
This is episode 24, and we're inthe last parts of this book.
These ladies, if do you thinkthey could have thought that
(10:32):
they would help us through anauthoritarian takeover?
SPEAKER_02 (10:35):
I think they would like it.
SPEAKER_01 (10:36):
I think they would like it.
I think they would be veryhappy.
SPEAKER_02 (10:38):
Or they often look I often stare into Elizabeth's
eyes on my book, and I'm like,we have little little chats.
Maybe she's sending me prophecy.
SPEAKER_01 (10:49):
Maybe she'd start to be like, I saw prophecy.
SPEAKER_02 (10:52):
Women.
Elizabeth came to me and shesaid, We must band together and
overthrow.
She's she talks like she's fromladies.
Mrs.
SPEAKER_01 (11:04):
Snipping.
SPEAKER_02 (11:07):
Ladies, it's enough of the chit-chat.
SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
Get out on the streets.
I again I think they actuallywouldn't believe how this is
still the same.
SPEAKER_02 (11:15):
Which definitely the closing line is like we're on
the upward swing.
And I'm like, oh, we were.
And then we hit a big wall.
But I'll tell you what.
If you can swing up once, youcan do it again.
Yeah, and even better.
Because I mean you would they dosay what, like two steps back,
(11:37):
no, one step back, two stepforwards.
But I do think we are in itthree steps back.
Um, sadly, one step forward.
SPEAKER_01 (11:45):
Okay, what are we doing?
We're do you know what we'regetting into this?
Epistles.
SPEAKER_02 (11:48):
Epistles, another letter.
They're but this is different.
This is Peter and John.
This is not Paul.
SPEAKER_01 (11:54):
Oh, so Peter and John wrote this?
SPEAKER_02 (11:55):
Yeah.
To whom?
Well, I did not look that up,but I'm assuming they wrote to
some they're like a generalletter.
General letters to letter to theeditor.
SPEAKER_01 (12:06):
All the churches that they touched.
And this is only two pages inthe women's Bible.
The epistles of Peter and John.
And you're not gonna believewhat the topic is.
Likewise, ye wives, be insubjection to your own husbands.
That if any obey not the word,they may without the word be won
(12:28):
by the conversation of thewives.
SPEAKER_02 (12:31):
Because the wives are just gonna say what the
husband says.
SPEAKER_01 (12:34):
Yeah, and then he then he goes on to talk about
adorning.
SPEAKER_02 (12:38):
I really like the last one.
It's like, likewise, yehusbands, dwell with them
according to the knowledge,giving honor unto the wife, as
unto the weaker vessel.
So, like we're a weaker vessel.
Like you're pouring yourknowledge into your wife so she
can pour it out to somebodyelse.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
It's so clear that these dudes were like, Oh my
god, women can have babies.
We have got to write this.
SPEAKER_02 (13:04):
Yeah, it's like they probably really want to make
babies.
They do they do go through likea thing.
They're like, I can't make ababy.
Come on, that probably is like abig problem.
I mean, that's from thebeginning of time.
Like they're like, wait aminute, I want to grow a shit.
SPEAKER_01 (13:18):
I feel like it was always a problem.
This is just when it becameyeah, yeah.
So, and then yeah, it's only ththree little verses, and he
talks about adorning again,don't plate the hair, which I
believe is braiding.
Yeah.
Or wearing gold.
So, some more picky dude shit.
And Elizabeth is the one thatresponds to this.
SPEAKER_02 (13:37):
Yeah, and the biggest thing I love this little
paragraph here.
Um, because she is about, she'slike, Why do they want to
control us?
All this stuff, and they'relike, have these good virtues,
but yet control your wife.
Then she picks out women's loveof satins, velvets, laces, and
jewels has its correspondingexpression in man's love of
(13:58):
wealth, of position, and hisambition for personal and family
aggrandizement.
So, like, money pours intoeverything, even back then.
And she said, There's much talkof the poor and needy,
especially during politicalcampaigns.
Oh.
In the autumn of 1896, when theworking man's interests formed
(14:21):
the warp and woof of everyspeech, 3,000 children stood in
the streets of New York City,for whom there was no room in
the schoolhouses and noplaygrounds, and yet thousands
of dollars were spent in buyingboats.
(14:41):
Large, well-ventilated homes forthose who do the work of the
world, plenty of schoolhousesand playgrounds for children of
the poor would be much morebeneficial to the race than
expensive monuments to dead menand large appropriations from
the public treasury for holidayand convivial occasions to honor
(15:01):
men in high places.
And this is when they wereputting up the statues of the
Confederates.
SPEAKER_01 (15:08):
That was all part of trying to scare the shit out of
freed people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:13):
They're like, vote for me.
The poor need help, but uh, I'mgonna spend all this money
putting up a statue and thesepoor kids standing on the
street.
So sorry.
Same thing of the women doingall the work in a church and all
the laws are against them.
SPEAKER_01 (15:28):
So exactly.
Exactly.
This could be if you justreplaced um thousands of dollars
with millions, billions.
Billions, actually.
Yeah, billions.
That's another thing I don'tunderstand why modern citizens
just do not rise up becauseevery election, billions get
spent.
SPEAKER_02 (15:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:48):
This last election was nuts.
SPEAKER_02 (15:50):
Where did that money go?
I'm very um curious.
SPEAKER_01 (15:53):
Well, you won't know because some of the money is
hidden.
But the fact that it's been likethat, it can't continue to be
like that.
SPEAKER_02 (16:04):
But they tell us right here.
Do tell.
It's fair to infer that what hehas done in the past, he will
continue to do in the future.
Unless she, that means women,yep, yeah, rebels outright.
He will make her a slave, asubject, the mere reflection of
another human will.
SPEAKER_01 (16:24):
Okay, so as a terrorist, I want to say that we
as an hey gals, ladies, itactually is up to us.
SPEAKER_02 (16:33):
It's up to us.
Time to stop and make the worldnotice.
We're not gonna take it.
No, we're gonna take it.
We're not gonna take it anymore.
Join us.
(16:54):
Join us.
It's time.
It is time.
This is the future.
We must rebel outright.
We must.
SPEAKER_01 (17:02):
But we can't do it alone.
Yeah, and we gotta finish thisepisode.
But before we right after this,at Join us.
Yeah, join us.
SPEAKER_02 (17:08):
October 18th.
SPEAKER_01 (17:10):
No, see, there's so many tangents here, but she
brought up politics, and Icouldn't help.
SPEAKER_02 (17:15):
Yeah, that's good.
No, it was perfect.
And obviously, we should takeher advice.
SPEAKER_01 (17:20):
We take her advice, so I hope you appreciate that
call to action.
Okay, next, what's the nextsituation?
Oh, this is good because this isan another very modern thing.
Oh, the John.
So they she but she picked fourverses from John's epistle.
And in the verses, I'm like, butit's just some crap about fancy
(17:40):
people.
Yeah.
But the main thing is So she'stalking about the elder unto the
elect lady.
It's about this whole eminentand honorable Christian women
and treating them.
SPEAKER_02 (17:52):
But I think that the ba the basic thing is that
apostles relied on thewell-to-do ladies to take care
of them as they traveled aroundspreading the word.
SPEAKER_01 (18:03):
And they preferred that to just sleeping like in
sackcloth or whatever.
SPEAKER_02 (18:08):
I mean, do you think they'd find them in a stable?
Yeah.
Not a change.
SPEAKER_01 (18:13):
So that is very interesting.
Yeah, because um You see thishere.
In in their travels about thecountry, the apostles especially
enjoyed the hospitality offamilies of rank through
democrat oh, sorry, thoughdemocratic in their principles,
they were susceptible to theattractions of wealth and of
culture.
SPEAKER_02 (18:33):
They're like, we're important.
And I can no longer sleep on afloor of hay.
SPEAKER_01 (18:41):
What would Jesus think?
I know, and I think you gotupset.
You really went against thething.
I told you my own note says starfuckers.
unknown (18:50):
Yes, that's right.
SPEAKER_02 (18:53):
That is true.
Just true.
They're like, ooh, they got alittle taste of fame.
They're like, wealthy late, allthe ladies.
Who wants an apostle?
SPEAKER_01 (19:03):
So he even wrote it down.
He was like, You put me up forthe night, I'll write an
epistle.
Put your name in it, sweet lady.
Lady elect.
Yeah, this is in case there'sany biblical people following.
It was what's the say?
Two, John, one verse.
One, five, six, and twelve.
They're kind of like, don't evenread it.
It's really boring.
SPEAKER_02 (19:20):
It's just the elder onto the elect lady and her
children.
The children were probablylovely.
But now, yeah, that was it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:28):
That was it.
That's the epistles.
There's only one thing left todo with a Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (19:37):
It's the heavy hitter.
It's the most contested.
Is it real?
Is it not?
Does it belong in the Bible?
Does it not depends on yourreligion?
Some people don't like it.
We're like, what book?
And no one understands it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:54):
Well, maybe somebody knows.
The timing is great.
Because how does Revelation fitinto uh the rapture?
SPEAKER_02 (20:01):
Oh, it is.
Is it?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:04):
I don't know.
Yes, Revelation is where theyget sucked up and then Well, no,
the rapture is like a made-upthing from the 19th century.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (20:12):
But it ties into like good over evil.
So, but whoever took Revelationand was like, oh, that must mean
all us good people are gonna getsucked up to live in the clouds,
and all the bad people are justgonna live in the sewage pit of
Earth.
SPEAKER_01 (20:30):
Oh.
As we are right now.
I love living in the sewage ofthe phone.
So we have Revelation chapterone.
Is this um MJ MJG?
So remember um Matilda JocelynGage was the super smart lady.
She's part of the Freethinkers.
Her son-in-law was inspired byher.
(20:53):
He was Frank Baum who wrote TheWizard of Oz.
Wizard of Oz.
The term Matilda effect is namedafter her.
So we see a return of her words,and she comes back and she's
really good.
So they get so it says uhRevelation chapter one,
Revelation one through four.
(21:13):
And this is when he's talkingabout the seven churches.
Is it Asia specifically?
So explain this.
This is Roman Empire crap.
SPEAKER_02 (21:20):
It is Roman.
So the person that wrote this isnamed John, and that is
something that we've learnedthat like they're like, we don't
know who this John is.
But he had a vision and he wroteit down.
So some people think it's likerevelations.
It's just one revel, it was onevision with a lot of detail.
SPEAKER_01 (21:40):
Tons of detail.
How many so much detail?
Okay, so this is what Joannatold me before we started.
The book of Revelation is howmany?
It's like a bajillion pages.
SPEAKER_02 (21:49):
Well, it's just it's the longest letter.
No, it's it was so most lettersin that time were like 97 to 200
words.
This letter had 9,200 words.
That's quite a vision.
And it was like a thousandpercent increase.
SPEAKER_01 (22:06):
It was a thousand percent increase.
Nobody's seen anything like it.
Nothing.
It was the big leaf.
It was the greatest letter.
People tell me this is thegreatest book ever.
It's the best one.
The best book.
That's what people say.
That's what people say.
Um they're just saying that theyrevealed it in revelations.
SPEAKER_02 (22:24):
And he sent it to seven churches, this this
revelation.
Blessed is he that readeth, andthey that hear the words of this
prophecy, and keep those thingswhich are written therein for
the time is at hand.
And if it was at hand back then,boy, boy.
(22:45):
This time at hand is reallylong.
SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
That's how yeah, it's a big hand.
Also, want to point out so thisentire book, Revelation, we have
another example of a gentlemanhaving a vision.
Oh yeah, all alone and justbeing like, just trust me.
Jesus came back and he told methis shit.
SPEAKER_02 (23:07):
Told me, he said, I'm gonna show you a bunch of
stuff, write it in a book.
Yeah, write it down.
There will be destruction ofanything you write down.
Yeah, just keep it between meand you, and you're the only one
that knows, but share it witheverybody.
And if people don't believe you,tell them they'll get murdered.
SPEAKER_01 (23:27):
Yeah, and they're not welcome into the next
kingdom.
So, and we'll see, as Batilla'sgonna point out, and then some
of the research we did, thethere is so much symbolism in
this.
Seven is a recurring theme.
SPEAKER_02 (23:43):
I thought this was like your chapter because you
are into astrology.
I am, and that is what um theywere saying.
And I love this crap.
So, John Morley, he must be oneof the um people that like
looked at the Bible and gavetheir viewpoints.
Um, once said, I forgot whatthey're gonna commentators or
(24:05):
whatever.
We're like, it's very late.
We're like, what are they?
Thinkers, they're the thinkers.
SPEAKER_01 (24:09):
He's a biblical pundit.
SPEAKER_02 (24:10):
But he talked to the priests and he said, We shall
not attack you, we shall explainyou.
The book of Revelation, properlyrevealings, um, which is just
another name they're revealing.
This is Matilda's words, yeah.
Cannot even be approximatelyexplained without some knowledge
(24:31):
of astrology.
It is purely esoteric work,largely referring to women, her
intuition, her spiritual powers,and all she represents.
Even the name of its puitiveauthor, John, is identical in
meaning with Dove, which is theemblem of the Holy Ghost, the
(24:55):
female principle in thedivinity.
And I actually looked that upbecause apparently the Holy
Ghost in Hebrew is feminine inits what is that, entomology?
Yes, yeah.
So it's a feminine word.
Um, so the Holy Spirit,apparently, according to our
lady and many other scholarsthroughout the years, was always
(25:18):
feminine.
Interesting.
Um, so maybe John Morley wasmaybe a a guy that was um with
the priest because he says, Wewe won't attack you, we'll
explain you, I'll tell you whatthe revelation is.
And she's like, Okay.
She's like, fine.
SPEAKER_01 (25:34):
But she but bring back the women.
The other thing, the uhVictorian gals, they are in an
era where the occult inspiritualism was very big.
So I'm sure she was pretty wellversed in all of this stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (25:47):
So my god, yeah, because she that's why I said I
was like, ooh, Sarah's gonnaexplain this to me.
SPEAKER_01 (25:52):
So this I'm gonna explain, I'll explain
everything.
Open the revelation.
She writes the book came downfrom old Egyptian mystery,
doesn't quote times, and was oneof the profoundly sacred and
profoundly secret books of thegreat temple of Luxor.
The words sacred and secretpossessing the same meaning
during these mysteries.
(26:13):
All knowledge was ancientlyconcealed in the mysteries,
letters, numbers, astrology, isin parentheses, until the 16th
century, identical withastronomy, alchemy, the parent
of chemistry, these and allother sciences were hidden from
the common people.
Even to all initiates, the mostimportant part of the mysteries
(26:34):
was not revealed.
This is where, and I know otherpeople are doing this work, but
I love the idea, you know, wewere going over the Kabbalah.
Oh, yeah, yep.
The numerology and the tarotstuff involved in that.
It is it is all connected.
And then going back toPythagoreans, yeah, they're
like, it's all math.
SPEAKER_02 (26:55):
Yeah, exactly.
Which is funny because myfather-in-law has always told me
everything is math.
Isn't that trippy?
It's true, and it's true, andI'm not good at it.
SPEAKER_01 (27:08):
No, you're thinking I'm not good at the math that
the old uh capitalist meatgrinder school tried to tell you
what math was.
SPEAKER_02 (27:19):
But math of the universe, I might be really good
at exactly like empathy plushumanity equals equals a
thousand percent.
SPEAKER_01 (27:29):
This is where I do wish that I had a visual because
apparently there's like a wheelof revelation, and there's a lot
of stuff about how you canoverlay that with the 12
astrological signs.
Yeah, yeah.
Where my knowledge, because Iwas like, oh, I want to know
more about this, but peoplegotta remember when we're
(27:51):
talking about astrology, likethe astrology, I know you know,
been a hobbyist or whatever.
That's Western astrology.
Okay.
There are different, you know,houses.
I did look up the Hebrewastrology, they do have the same
names like Virgo, Gemini, andbut the the idea that the
planets possess certainqualities, and that mimics a lot
(28:12):
of what you'll see in like Greekmythology.
Yeah, because even their godswere named after planets, they
were named after planets, butyou know, stuff like uh the
planet of Saturn is is very maleand controlling and sometimes
angry, and Venus is love, love,and beauty, aestheticism, and
(28:33):
all that jazz.
So interesting.
What's Uranus?
Uranus.
Actually, Uranus.
So um people like AlbertEinstein have like strong Uranus
Uranus is how am I sayingUranus?
SPEAKER_02 (28:49):
Well, they used to say Uranus and now they say
Uranus.
SPEAKER_01 (28:51):
I'm gonna say Uranus.
People make fun of me when I saysymbolus.
SPEAKER_02 (28:55):
I know 80s.
SPEAKER_01 (28:57):
And I forget, I think the other thing to
remember is back then the beliefthat there were like seven
planets, but they also believethat like the moon was a planet.
Yeah.
So I don't I don't know thattimeline of that.
Anyways, but Uranus is or Uranususually symbolizes unorthodox,
new, outside of the boxthinking, like revolutionary.
unknown (29:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:22):
Oh, I like that one.
Yeah.
How do you get in that house?
I'll check your I'll check yourchart.
Check my oh, I gotta find mybird.
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (29:28):
All right.
There's so much so Matilda'sresponse to this is so
fascinating.
So she goes through this list ofthese different religious
leaders and talking about howthey're everybody's pish poshing
in Revelation.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (29:44):
Can I read this?
Because so she said some peopledispute it and say like it
shouldn't belong in the Bible.
And then she says its mysticcharacter has been vaguely
surmised by the later church,which while claiming to be an ex
the explanation.
Exponent of spiritual things hasyet taught the grossest
(30:04):
materialism and from no part ofthe Bible more fully than from
Revelation.
This is my favorite part becauseshe uses the word literal like
10 times.
I know.
I'm like, I have this sohighlighted.
It asserts a literal coming ofChrist in the literal clouds of
heaven, riding a literal horse,while Gabriel, angel of the
(30:28):
moon, with a literal trump witha literal trumpet sounds time.
This um, oh sorry, a literaltrumpet sounds the blast of the
earth's destruction.
A literal devil is to be boundfor a thousand years, during
which the time saints are todwell on earth.
(30:50):
She's like, guys, literally, areyou literally it says this?
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
And I wonder how much they actually used literal.
These women write with suchproperness, and yeah, that's why
you know how we I say literallyall the time.
Right.
And people, you know, grammarpeople are like, that's not what
it means.
I'm like, well, that's what itmeans now.
Now it does.
But she's like, literal devil.
And then just yeah, and everyman to have a farm, as once I
(31:18):
heard a devout Methodistdeclare, but there will not be
land enough for that objectedbrother.
Oh, well, the earth is nowtwo-thirds water, and that will
be dried up, was the reply.
To such straits have Christiansbeen driven in their efforts to
comprehend this book.
They're like, You sound like anidiot.
Yeah, it would be literally so Iin what she's trying to say,
(31:40):
she's like, it is like lookingat like an astrology wheel or a
chart and being like, No, itsays right here, like Venus is
gonna come, and then Libra isgonna, and you're like, you're
like that.
Stop trying to think of it soliterally.
Yeah, it's more like it's sofull of symbolism, and it makes
me want to read the whole thing,but 9,000 words, who has the
(32:02):
time?
I gotta read more think piecesabout the orange devil.
Yeah, and she mentioned thiswhole thing.
We always I think every episode,I'm like, you gotta read this.
You're gonna read the wholething, but it's so delicious,
especially if you are into theoccult.
And back in the 19th century,people really took it seriously.
(32:25):
This guy she mentioned, ElpheusLevi.
Um, and he was an like a superoccultist.
Oops, I'm doing here.
I wrote down something.
SPEAKER_02 (32:35):
Scientist.
SPEAKER_01 (32:36):
He was an occultist, and he considered the biblical
book of Revelation to be amasterpiece of occult science.
He believed that the book'scomplex imagery and prophecies
could not be understoodliterally and required a secret
esoteric key for interpretation.
And his analysis draws onmultiple esoteric systems,
including the Kabbalah,astrology and numerology, and
(33:00):
tarot.
And he associated the 22 majorarcana of the tarot with the
Hebrew alphabet, which and youknow the Hebrew alphabet is
related to numbers, everything'sabout man.
That's research.
Send it to my accountant.
Yeah.
(33:20):
We can't.
So she says, while even apartial comprehension of
reveiling, some knowledge ofastrology is required.
It is no less true that thewhole Bible from Genesis to
Revelation demands a knowledgeof astrology, of letters, and of
numbers with theirinterchangeable values as they
(33:41):
were understood by those whowrote it.
A book written by initiates forinitiates.
So here's think about that.
And not only do they not look atthe occult, you are told it's
(34:02):
bad.
It's demonic.
Yeah.
I remember I was checking myhoroscope near my grandmother,
and she was like, Oh, you know,like, what are you reading?
Satan's that's that's somewitchcraft.
So here we have an intelligentwoman who is part of the free
thinker movement saying, Youactually can't understand this.
(34:24):
The common person can'tunderstand this unless unless
you have this stuff.
But you have the people high upin the church being like, Oh,
that stuff is satanic.
So, what that tells you is theydon't want you to understand it.
SPEAKER_02 (34:37):
Yet they believe in a man that said he was talking
to a burning bush.
Like, right.
SPEAKER_01 (34:43):
Make it well, it gives men power.
Oh, yeah.
Blind faith is way more usefulthan educated, um populist
populist.
Thank you.
Yes, literally.
Literally.
Isn't that so?
It's just fantastic.
SPEAKER_02 (35:02):
I I like so um John, they don't know which John it
is.
He wrote this, he was banishedto an island because he was
speaking about religion and andthis revelation, whatever.
But he wrote, he wrote it onthis island when he was in
exile.
But it says that that's reallyin question.
A man, Professor Goldwyn Smith,in a recent work, recent
(35:26):
1896-ish, um, guesses, it'scalled Guesses at the Riddle of
Existence.
I love that everybody wasthinking about this even back
then.
It sounds like a great book.
I know, so cool.
Free thinkers.
Um, he thinks that we have butlittle reliable information as
to the writers of either the oldor the new testaments.
(35:47):
In this case, the style is sodifferent from that of John that
the same apostle could not havewritten both books.
So she's like, it's definitelynot the Apostle John.
Whoever wrote the Revelation wasevidently the victim of a
terrible and extravagantimagination and of visions which
(36:09):
make the blood curdle.
SPEAKER_00 (36:13):
East.
SPEAKER_01 (36:16):
I love it.
Then they she picks um a coupleof things.
Revelation 2, 18 through 23, andI'll just read you the last
verse in this.
And I will kill her children,and all the churches shall know
that I am he which searchessearcheth the hearts, and I will
give unto every one of youaccording to your works.
SPEAKER_02 (36:38):
Oh, my blood is curled! I know.
I'm like, that's creepy, it'sscary, and it's against women.
SPEAKER_01 (36:43):
I know.
Well, and this reminds me ofwhat we were talking about right
before.
So Revelation references the OldTestament, both in some of its
symbolism, its stories, theplaces they're talking about,
and in the super mean God.
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, lots ofchildren killing and stuff.
SPEAKER_02 (37:07):
Evidently.
SPEAKER_01 (37:08):
Evidently.
Oh, and Jezebel.
Oh yeah, reappears says,Notwithstanding, I have a few
things against thee because thousufferest that woman Jezebel,
which calleth herself a prophetto teach and seduce my servants.
SPEAKER_02 (37:24):
Damn those women.
SPEAKER_01 (37:25):
Women can't call themselves.
Oh no, it was not banned.
She wasn't bad.
And also, how come women can'thave like why can't they
prophesize?
Yeah.
But you have a dream and you getto write a whole book and it's
still here two thousand yearslater.
Come on.
SPEAKER_02 (37:41):
Yeah.
I told you what I think, or yousaid that actually, because I
was like, We have the samethoughts.
Because you know, we thinkthings all the time, right?
But I'm like, oh, maybe I justshould say someone sent it to
me, and it's a vision.
Yeah.
Instead of my own thoughts.
Because maybe these people werelike, I usually don't think.
And all of a sudden I saw abright light and I had all these
(38:03):
thoughts.
People be like, I'm a prophet!I'm a prophet, believe it.
SPEAKER_01 (38:08):
So this is more, and Elizabeth is talking again about
the idea of like what'sfigurative, what's literal.
I only had like the lastsentence.
Yeah, that's all I got.
Satan and women.
Yeah, Satan, Satan and women arethe chief characters in all the
frightful visions.
And the sacred period ofmaternity is made to illustrate
(38:28):
some of the most terribleupheavals in national life, as
between the old dragon and themother of the race.
Whatever this book was intendedto illustrate, its pictures are
painfully vivid.
There's no doubt, there's noquestioning.
SPEAKER_02 (38:43):
Women, you be bad, you little lover of slithering
snakes.
Disgust me.
Yeah, speaking of snakes, whatare we looking at?
Snakey snake.
Um, and this is MJG.
Okay, women were fleeing to thewilderness to prepare a place
for God.
Oh, there's a dragon.
(39:04):
That's what I love about it.
Yeah, we promised dragon.
I love a nice dragon.
And when the dragon saw that hewas cast onto the earth, he was
wroth with the woman, angry.
Because oh, so the woman senthim there.
And went to make war with theremnant of her seed.
Like, right?
What?
Go after the woman.
I want to get her seed, thatbaby.
Little baby blood.
(39:24):
Oh, really?
Yeah.
That's so dark.
Painfully vivid.
So a woman, um, and it's funnybecause they this is astrology
too.
She was clothed, clothed withthe sun and the moon under her
feet, and upon her head 12stars, which is so astrological,
right?
Absolutely.
She had a child, and there sheencountered the dragon that um
(39:48):
sent and sent her sent him toEarth, and he was not happy
about it.
Um, and then she goes on and shetalks about all the
constellations and how thatlines up to astrology.
So basically it's like anastrolog explaining the stars.
Right.
At an early day, serpents weremuch respected.
They were thought to have morepneuma.
(40:09):
Was that I think of penumbre,like the thing, or spirit,
because penumbre is the aura ofthe sun, right?
Or the spirit than any otherliving thing, and they were
termed fiery.
For this cause, high initiateswere called Naga or serpents of
wisdom.
And a living serpent was alwayscarried in the celebration of
(40:31):
mysteries.
During the brilliant 18th and19th Egyptian dynasties, Draco
was a great god.
But when this constellation lostits place in the heavens and
Thubians ceased to be guidingside real divinity, it shared
the fate of all fallen gods.
Quote, the gods of our fathersare our devils, says an Arabic
(40:54):
proverb, which I thought waslike damn.
That's pretty deep, right?
That's very deep.
Because I think about that andI'm like, oh.
Really?
Let that simmer in that.
Let simmer in that.
SPEAKER_01 (41:05):
Put the lid on, let it simmer.
Okay?
That is good.
I like here where she's talking.
Colors and jewels are parts ofastrology.
And ancient cities, as ectabana.
Sure.
Sure.
Were built and colored after theplanets.
Come on, is that true?
It is.
I looked it up.
How fucking cool is that?
(41:25):
What?
Yeah, the new Jerusalem.
But I'm like, I can't get overthat actually.
I'm just gonna go back to that.
I'm like, I want to have a wholecity where I'm like, welcome to
the Ruby town of Mars.
Yes! What if I got I would loveit?
The New Jerusalem of Reveilingsis purely an astrological city,
not to be understood without aknowledge of mystic numbers,
(41:49):
letters, jewels, and colors.
So also the four and twentyelders of reveilings are 24
stars of the Chaldean zodiaccounselors or judges, which rose
and set with it.
See, there's there are so many,I think I'm familiar with like
12 different zodiac things.
(42:10):
Things see that's how familiar Iam.
I'm an expert.
Um, so astrology was broughtinto great prominence by the
visit of the magi, the zodiacalconstellation Virgo, the woman
with a child ruling Palestine,in which country Bethlehem is
situated.
SPEAKER_02 (42:28):
They are the chosen ones, and here we are.
Here we are, um killing off anentire race as the world
watches.
Right.
It's insane.
When I read that, I was justlike, oh yeah.
When I read that, I was like,see, uh how did this all get
(42:49):
misconstrued?
And how did these people becauseI just I really obviously I
think a lot of us in the worldare half the time consumed with
what's happening in these placeswhere people are there's people
living in an awful situationright now.
SPEAKER_01 (43:07):
Palestine, Sudan, Palestine, Sudan, um, I don't
know.
Where else?
There's a like a um I don'tknow, don't get on a boat if
you're in Venezuela.
Oh yeah, don't let it.
It's so yeah.
It's crazy.
I'm actually I have a specialinterest in Virgo too.
And she is a woman with a childoriginally, and now Virgo is
(43:31):
seen as a woman that's likeholding like a harvest, or she's
like from the earth, yeah.
Oh, why did it change?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (43:39):
Ooh, but well, you're gonna look that up.
Find that for me.
I am going to look that up.
Yeah, so this is all um and anda lot of the constellation have
to do with the women.
So she talks about here thecrown of twelve spar stars again
above the head of theapocalyptic woman are the twelve
constellations of the zodiac.
(43:59):
Clothed with the sun, woman hererepresents the divinity of the
feminine.
Its spirituality as opposed tothe materiality of the
masculine.
For in Egypt, the sun as thegiver of life was regarded as
feminine, while the moon,shining by reflected light off
(44:21):
the sun, was looked upon asmasculine.
With her feet upon the moon,woman corresponding to and
representing the soul, portraysthe ultimate triumph of
spiritual things over materialthings, over the body, which man
or the male principlecorresponds to and represents.
(44:44):
Can we follow astrology?
Can we just you know,materialism?
It's ruined us.
SPEAKER_01 (44:48):
And this is sending my brain off to um the moon and
the sun and tarot.
So the sun is about creativeenergy and like external
creation and growth, and themoon reflects your inner
thoughts.
Ooh, that's in like tarot.
(45:09):
But mind you, tarot is like new,oh is compared compared to like
the Bible.
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (45:16):
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_01 (45:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (45:17):
Now I was assuming that the tarot was directly
related to the Kabbalah.
No, no, no.
SPEAKER_01 (45:24):
Tarot's tarot's like kind of I'm like no.
No, but it matches.
Well, I was right.
I thought it was, I was gonnasay like three or four hundred
years, but it is um 580 yearsold.
SPEAKER_02 (45:33):
Oh, that is not old.
SPEAKER_01 (45:35):
Yeah, it's not that old.
SPEAKER_02 (45:36):
Interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (45:37):
Mm-hmm.
No idea.
Absolutely.
But the reason it made me thinkthat is because even as we're
reading symbols, if we'rereading like, so she's reading
these symbols from a 19thcentury perspective, this stuff
can flip.
(45:58):
Like, even the re you know, likewhat people thought um Scorpio
represented.
I mean, that could have changedover time.
Okay.
We could not, we don't really,you don't totally know.
So even the idea of trying to belike, that's what this means,
and crisis coming back onSeptember 24th.
I mean, where'd you get that?
That's that's old news.
So I had this.
(46:18):
There was a war.
Okay, this is I had this wholeparagraph underlined, if I may.
Go ahead.
There was a war treat yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (46:26):
Treat yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (46:27):
This is MJG.
There was a war in heaven, thewonderful progress and freedom
of women as women within thelast half century, despite the
false interpretation of theBible by the church and by
masculine power, is the resultof this great battle, and all
attempts to destroy her will befutile.
Who's who's she quoting?
(46:47):
This is another sometimes theseladies do a quote as if we're
it's like in popular culture.
SPEAKER_02 (46:53):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_01 (46:54):
Anyway, sorry.
Despite the false interpretationof the Bible by the church and
by masculine power is the resultof this great battle, and all
attempts to destroy her will befutile.
Her day and hour have arrived.
The dragon of physical powerover her, the supremacy of
material things in the world, asdepicted by the male principle,
are yielding to the spiritualrepresented by women.
(47:18):
The eagle, true bird of the sun,an emblem of our own great
country, gives his wings to heraid, and the whole earth comes
to help her against herdestroyer.
So she's like, You guys haveread this all wrong.
Revelation is about women beinglike, actually, we're taking the
power back.
We're taking the power back, andthe power is in spirituality and
(47:39):
not your materialistic bullshit.
Yeah.
So maybe Revelation will be ourguidebook for these times.
Actually, no, because I'd belike, I'll be like, you guys can
read this, but you have to knownumerology, astrology,
astronomy.
You have to be me to understandit.
SPEAKER_02 (47:59):
Um the writers of the Bible, this is ECS.
Okay.
The writers of the Bible areprone to make women the standard
for all kinds of abominations.
And even motherhood, whichshould be held most sacred, is
used to illustrate the mostrevolting crimes.
Gross.
(48:20):
Um, this is the I just thiswhole last thing is fantastic.
Um why because this this wrapsit up, because this actually is
the end.
And actually, if you'relistening to the Audible book,
they're like, thank you.
I will now recommend you a newbook.
So they don't have our appendix.
SPEAKER_01 (48:37):
Oh, yeah, which we'll talk about in a minute.
But yeah, I can't believe weshouldn't just pause.
This is like the it only took us700 months to do this.
SPEAKER_00 (48:46):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (48:47):
This is it.
This is the end.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (48:49):
This is the end.
This is the final, this is yourperiod on the woman's Bible.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (48:54):
And it did by the way, this episode did come with
a call to action.
SPEAKER_02 (48:59):
Yes, it did.
Yes, it did.
And here, here it is.
Why so many different revisingcommittees of bishops and
clergymen should have retainedthis book as holy and inspiring
to the ordinary reader is amystery.
It does not seem possible thatthe divine John could have
(49:21):
painted these dark pictures ofthe struggles of humanity with
the spirit of evil.
Verily, we need an exparrogatededition of the Old and New
Testament.
So they said, right now, we needto clear up this Bible, get rid
of all this crap, and make itcorrect before they are fit to
(49:42):
be placed in the hands of ouryouth to be read in the public
schools and in the theologicalseminaries, especially if we
wish to inspire our childrenwith proper love and respect for
the mothers of the race.
SPEAKER_01 (50:09):
Any questions?
So, how do we transition fromthe mystical mystery of
revelation to telling you all toshare our podcast so everyone
can get caught up before we goover the extensive appendix
section of the women's Bible?
We just did it! We justtransitioned.
So yes.
(50:29):
In fact, I don't even know, Ihaven't even realized so we just
finished the book.
Well, I mean, we didn't finishit.
What we're seeing I mean, we didthough.
We finished the Bible.
SPEAKER_02 (50:38):
The murder and and what was released, the meat and
the potatoes.
SPEAKER_01 (50:42):
But we've got a side dish for y'all.
Oh, I love a side dish.
A little side dish.
Side dishes always make it.
Yeah.
The women's bible, the copy thatI have, or that we have, has a
whole they call it an appendix,which usually is boring.
Is boring or whatever, but thisis like letters that Elizabeth
(51:03):
has received and her responsesto stuff, and some other
commentators write about howthey did research.
So we, our next episode, we'regoing to be going through some
or all of that.
We'll see we'll see how thatbreaks up.
SPEAKER_02 (51:17):
And I love that because it's it's not gonna be
like the Bible verses, it'sgonna be like people of the time
going, dang girl.
What is this that you talkabout?
SPEAKER_01 (51:29):
Exactly.
So it's gonna be a real kicker.
Oh, I can't wait.
Yeah, it's good because I hateto, I don't like when you go
through a big thing that's justabrupt.
If we were just like, and thankyou, bye.
SPEAKER_02 (51:42):
And thank you.
That's the last episode.
Peace.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (51:44):
But these but these episodes will live on forever.
Yeah, you can re-listen to them.
You can re-listen to them likewe have to tell you.
I bet you have already listenedto all of our episodes several
times.
I know.
I could, you know, we can see.
Yes.
We love you all.
Well we're like on the wish.
Yeah, we're so until our nextepisode, ask yourself, what
(52:07):
would I do if a dragon showed upright now?
What if you were to step on themoon?
Ooh, yeah.
Just get mystical this week.
SPEAKER_02 (52:18):
That'll help you.
Get mystical.
Just get mystical.
Ask yourself, what would Jezebeldo?
SPEAKER_01 (52:24):
Mm-hmm.
And report back.
Tell me.
SPEAKER_02 (52:28):
Not Jezebel.
Do it, lady.
Get it.
Come on, it's time.
It's our time to rise.
Peace out.
Peace.
In the Middle East.
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