July 25, 2025 • 59 mins
We're back after our short summer podcast pause to bring you the very last books of the Old Testament through the lens of our favorite Victorian Feminists.
They rip through the last six or so (who's counting?) books of the OT and we're covering it for you in under an hour. We start with the book of Job and that's great because we're kind of living in the book of job right now.
Then we move on to the books written by King David and King Solomon and man are they cranky and lord above they haven't learned a lick about women. Unfortunately these attitudes were put in written form so the cranky men of today can use them as how-to manuals.
We'll hip you to how Proverbs characterizes women as either virtuous, marriage-material treasures with a value "above the price of rubies" or dangerous temptresses, harlots if you will, and how that pretty much sums up the two female characters in modern fiction and film.
All of that and more in this episode!
Oh and ----
An AI told us we should use this description:
Most striking is how biblical women are used primarily as symbols rather than depicted as full individuals. In the prophetic books like Isaiah, women represent either virtue or vice, their "idiosyncrasies constantly used to point a moral or condemn a sin." The hosts draw compelling parallels to modern discourse, where women's experiences are still framed through their relationship to men rather than valued independently.
Tune in for eye-opening discussion that connects biblical representation to contemporary challenges, highlighting that when it comes to gender equality, we're still wrestling with frameworks established thousands of years ago.
Credits
Recorded at Troubadour Studios in Lansing, MI
Audio Engineer Corey DeRushia
Edited by Rie Daisies at Nighttime Girlfriend Studio
Music: ‘Shifting pt. 2 (instrumental)’ by Rie Daisies
Have some feedback? Praise? General thoughts? Know how to pronounce something? Are you a religious scholar? We'd love to hear from you. Leave a message right from your phone or computer by clicking here. Recordings may be used in future episodes.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sara Kaye (00:00):
Am I like good distance from the mic.
Joanna (00:02):
Yeah, let me know if I am too, because I talk loud, or
closer I'm relaxed.
Sara Kaye (00:07):
Okay.
Joanna (00:07):
Should I get closer, or am I just?
Sara Kaye (00:09):
loud.
Joanna (00:09):
Everyone's like Joanna, no, I am loud, joanna, go over
there.
I'm right here, I'm using myteacher voice.
I love it.
I only have one voice, and it'smine, and it's loud and you
gotta use it, sister.
Sara Kaye (00:27):
It's the podcast that Salty Serpent warned you about.
Joanna (00:30):
Welcome to Biting All the Apples, where two gals
discuss one radical book.
Sara Kaye (00:36):
The best-selling critical and comedic masterpiece
from 1895,.
Joanna (00:57):
The Women's Bible by Elizabeth Cady Stanton.
I'm Sarah Kay.
I'm Joanna V.
Sara Kaye (00:59):
We are back after a little summer break and boy are
we rested, calm, totallycollected, totally in the
perfect state to discuss thelast books in the Old Testament.
But that's mostly because theUS is doing a whole Old
Testament cosplay thing rightnow, minus the sackcloth and Old
English, of course.
You agree?
I?
Joanna (01:19):
agree, I agree, agreed, agreed, a thousand percent.
I agree, I agree, agreed,agreed, a thousand percent.
Sara Kaye (01:24):
So yeah, we are moving into the very last
morsels of the.
Old Testament with theVictorian feminists.
We're going to kick it off withJob, the most famous sad sack
in literary history.
Joanna (01:36):
Literally.
Did I say literary?
Literary and literary.
I know I was saying themtogether In book history.
Whatever, he's a sad sack andhe wears a sack, him together.
Sara Kaye (01:43):
In book history.
He's a sad sack and he wears asack, and I don't even know if
that's entirely true but I'mthrowing it out there.
Joanna (01:47):
I like it.
I feel like it fits with what Iread.
Sara Kaye (01:49):
Job.
You're a sorry ass.
Joanna (01:51):
He's very faithful.
Sara Kaye (01:55):
Then we're going to move Victorian feminist style
through Psalms, proverbs,ecclesiastes, isaiah, daniel,
micah and Malachi, malachi,malachi.
I like him Shooey.
That's a whole dinner partyright there, but don't worry
about time.
Stanton blazes through theselast books, it's true, cutting
to the parts where aging kingswrite about foolish and
(02:17):
contentious women.
True, so cool.
But before we begin, we aren'tfools, so we're going to cover
our buns with some disclaimers.
Joanna (02:26):
Biting All the Apples covers analysis of religious
texts.
Some listeners that arereligious out of the need for
the illusion of certainty mayfind our content offensive.
Biting All the Apples alsodiscusses historic texts and
feminist movements.
We recognize that individuals,groups and alternative movements
have been left out of themainstream history.
(02:46):
We will note that wheneverpossible, we are open to
additional information providedto us in the spirit of expanding
knowledge.
Sara Kaye (02:54):
That still happens.
I believe it happens it does?
Joanna (02:57):
I'm actually learning stuff every day, still, still.
Sara Kaye (03:01):
And.
Joanna (03:01):
I'm 50.
One Plus one.
Plus what?
50 plus one?
Yeah, still, and I'm 50.
One Plus one.
Sara Kaye (03:06):
Plus what?
50 plus one?
Yeah, yes, so alternativemovements and moments, it's true
, it's true, it's true.
Get to that.
It's been a minute since we'vebeen in the studio, I know.
Joanna (03:17):
And talking with our ladies, but I haven't totally
left the Bible behind.
I've got to be honest.
Sara Kaye (03:22):
Really that I haven't totally left the Bible behind.
Joanna (03:23):
I've got to be honest.
Really, that's what I was goingto ask you.
Yeah, I told you.
I've been falling into thesealgorithms of priests talking to
me, telling me about the Bible,the priest-erythms yeah, I mean
the priest algorithms.
I don't know, they're allEpiscopal.
Sara Kaye (03:38):
So I don't know if it's a sign Verified.
Joanna (03:40):
Verified Verified, verified.
Sara Kaye (03:42):
And some of them from like my old hometown.
Joanna (03:44):
That was the first one I saw something right, yeah, and
I was like El Cajon Cali, right,and I was like I'm going to
listen to this guy and I likedhim, you know, just talking
about the Bible.
And then all of a sudden I wasgetting all these priests and
I'm digging it.
They're talking about thethings we're talking about and
(04:06):
they're talking to theirparishioners about how we should
be living as Christians.
And if you're going to talkabout the Bible, you should be.
So that's been, I've been.
It's interesting, you should be.
What Cooler, meaner, nicer.
Thank you, you should be doingthe things like taking care of
immigrants.
Yeah, yeah, taking care of them, of immigrants, immigrants yeah
yeah, taking care of them,people different than you.
Sara Kaye (04:25):
Yeah, protecting those that are less than.
Are they so sure that's in theBible?
It's funny, I'm kidding.
Well, but the Episcopalians Iwas wondering.
Joanna (04:36):
I was like dang, maybe, when did Episcopalians start?
Man, because it sounds likeElizabeth probably would have
been one.
She's a Protestant, protestant,okay, Okay, remember I did that
.
I can't.
The whole Christian thing, thebranching off thing.
Did I send you that video?
Yeah, it's mind boggling, justthat endless sex.
Do you know why?
Sara Kaye (04:56):
I didn't watch that.
Why?
Because I was busy watchingApocalypse in the Tropics.
Oh gosh, oh gosh.
Joanna (05:03):
I heard that was not good, it's great.
Sara Kaye (05:06):
It's a fabulous documentary.
I highly recommend it and it'spertinent to this examination of
the hold that patriarchalreligion has over people in.
I don't know entire countrieslike Brazil and now the United
States, but follow the samepattern.
So the Apocalypse in theTropics is about the rise of
(05:30):
evangelicalism in Brazil.
And it went from like Using oursame Bible.
Joanna (05:37):
The same Bible.
Sara Kaye (05:39):
Maybe not the exact same their own?
Oh, I'm so curious.
Joanna (05:42):
I wonder if it's a King James version.
Sara Kaye (05:44):
In the documentary documentary they show the.
Oh you know what?
I should know the guy's name,but it's not bull and sorrow,
but the rich like evangelicalpreacher, and they say the same
stuff about family values havethose babies, yeah, and very,
you know, like gender conformityand bleaching off the system
(06:05):
and you know All those samethings, same things.
And watching that, I justrecommend it to everybody
because it fits.
It's like they're.
It's the exact script that theUnited States is running right
now.
I don't know.
Joanna (06:21):
So we got to change these things, we got to learn so
we can change, right, sure, welearn, we change, we stop the
progression of what Brazilalready did.
Sara Kaye (06:32):
I know, but sometimes I'm like do we have to change
or are we trying to make otherpeople change?
Joanna (06:38):
Yeah, I don't think we have to change.
Sara Kaye (06:39):
I mean, I think we're there.
Joanna (06:41):
I think we're there.
I mean, I'm not perfect, butboy.
Sara Kaye (06:44):
I do think.
Joanna (06:46):
Sarah Kay, we are on the right path.
We are, I feel it emotionallyand physically, please join our
club.
Sara Kaye (06:52):
It's called the Path to Perfection.
The.
Joanna (06:54):
Path to Perfection, we just truck on along.
Sara Kaye (06:58):
You know who else is on the Path to Perfection Job.
Joanna (07:02):
Job.
Oh my gosh.
Let me tell you about that guy.
Should we just get yeah, likewe can.
Sara Kaye (07:06):
You know, let's talk about Job.
We'll do.
We can talk more about theEpiscopalians and the change in
politics in Brazil later.
This is the Women's Bible.
Joanna (07:16):
Podcast.
That's right.
That's right, but we will chatwith you.
If you message us and give usyour input, I'm like we'll chat
with anybody seriously Seriously.
We'll even chat with thenaysayers.
Sara Kaye (07:30):
They're fun.
They're fun, we might shut youdown, but we'll listen.
It is crazy that we are almostat the end of the Old Testament,
but in the women's Bible, yeah,the Old Testament takes up, I'm
thinking, three quarters.
Joanna (07:47):
Yeah, I think so most of their rules and things were
coming from that Old Testament,that they were the old testy,
yeah, yeah, that they were goingto Congress to try and change
things.
They're like hold up.
Sara Kaye (07:54):
Wait a minute.
They're like.
Your foundational text isflawed, sirs.
Joanna (07:58):
Flawed and I want my own property.
So and I think it's justElizabeth that does the
responses Job- Well, yeah,actually, through the whole
thing, through the rest of this,she goes real fast.
Sara Kaye (08:10):
She's whipping through, let's whip through this
.
So the book of Job is one thatI do remember from childhood,
because that was another onethat didn't compute.
I'd hear the story.
I'd be like, yeah, is thissupposed to be inspiring?
That sounds horrible.
Joanna (08:23):
This is really depressing.
Yeah, so the guy Job, just he'sa great man, so, and I think
even in the Bible, because shesays it's an imaginary
conversation, yep, between Godand the devil, that's my first
note up top here.
Sara Kaye (08:37):
It just says Satan, yeah, satan.
I was like, where's he been.
Joanna (08:41):
It's our first Satan.
Is that the first time Satan's?
Maybe not, no, but I mean likewhere he's talking and he's like
a form of something First time.
Sara Kaye (08:48):
He's like a main character, a sentient being.
Joanna (08:51):
But yeah, so God's like oh, job's the best, he's the
best, he follows me, he doeseverything, and Satan's like
okay, go ahead.
Sara Kaye (09:04):
That's my favorite part about the whole thing.
He was like, okay, and I'm like, oh God, you're going to let
Satan.
Joanna (09:10):
You're the best guy You're going to let Satan just
like screw with him like a catin a mouse.
That's basically what he did,yeah.
Sara Kaye (09:17):
So that does make me think that God might be a man.
Actually, I'm going back oneverything.
Joanna (09:23):
Because I was like only it's not, Alanis.
Sara Kaye (09:25):
Morissette, because like only a dude would be like,
okay, we're going to challengeoff, yeah, where it's like
challenge, he could have justbeen like no Job's cool.
Joanna (09:35):
Yeah, no, if you don't believe me, satan, I don't care,
I'm God.
Yeah, but no, he was like goahead, test him.
Sara Kaye (09:45):
Yeah him, yeah, kill his kids.
Joanna (09:46):
He totally does and he had like all these farm animals,
kill them all.
Oh my gosh, see, if he stillloves you then.
And then he goes after the wifeand turns the wife on him.
Sara Kaye (09:52):
So that's dinah is that her name?
I'm looking here, she's she.
Joanna (09:56):
But you know, satan did it to her, made her, made her
turn.
Sara Kaye (10:00):
That's what.
So I had yeah, I had some stuffto say about that.
Well, Elizabeth talks a lotabout that how the wife, Job's
first wife, who I can't rememberthe name- of I think her name
was Dinah.
It is Dinah.
Job's wife's name is Dinah, soJob is like losing the farm.
Kids are getting killed.
Joanna (10:19):
Bad stuff is happening.
Her kids too, by the way, yeah.
Sara Kaye (10:21):
So this is what I got to say about that.
Two, by the way.
Yeah, this is what.
This is what I gotta say aboutthat.
So they and then like, and thenhis three friends like make fun
of him and they're just likegive up on this, god, dude.
And so dinah's saying that too,but he doesn't, he doesn't and
he doesn't.
Joanna (10:36):
He wears a sackcloth and he does all things and that,
and I know there's probablyother biblical reasoning for the
story of Job.
Sara Kaye (10:44):
But you know, what I see in this is a classic role
that women are still portrayed,even as plot devices.
So she's like the pushback, youknow?
Joanna (10:57):
Yeah, like she's supposed to.
Sara Kaye (10:58):
And they pick on her so that he ends up getting rid
of Dinah, because she was likeyou've got to stop believing,
you just need to, like you know,go over to Satan.
Joanna (11:04):
She, basically told him to kill himself.
Yeah, she's like.
You've got to stop believing.
Sara Kaye (11:05):
You just need to like she basically told him to kill
himself.
Yeah, she's like off yourself,and sure maybe that sounds bad,
but think about it.
She lost her kids, so you'rebad.
Women can't even own property.
She's relying on this dude forher food, shelter and safety
Good point, and he's liketotally messing up.
So is it unreasonable for Dinahto be like hey bud, he wasn't
(11:28):
messing up, though.
It was Satan.
But was Satan ever going tostop?
Joanna (11:32):
I don't know Was he, like you, have to denounce.
Sara Kaye (11:34):
God or whatever, but I'm just saying they're a little
harsh on Dinah so much, and sohe upgrades from her.
Joanna (11:42):
He loses her, he loses her and, yeah, he gets
everything.
Yeah, so Dinah might be thefirst nagging wife.
Sara Kaye (11:47):
You always see this in movies where the mobster you
know like Karen in Goodfellas.
They always turn on the guy,but it's like you know, so
Dinah's like Karen in Goodfellas.
That doesn't make sense.
Joanna (12:01):
Yeah, elizabeth says she bantered him for his constancy.
Douse thou still maintain thyconfidence in thy god, who has
punished thee?
Why dost thou be so obstinatein thy religion, which serves no
good to thee?
Why truckle, which means submitto a god who, so far from
(12:23):
rewarding thy services with thymarks of his favor, seems seems
to take pleasure in making theemiserable?
She's basically like thinkingwhat a lot of people would be
thinking if life was going thisshitty.
Sara Kaye (12:33):
Yeah.
Joanna (12:34):
Yeah, you're right.
I guess I agree with you.
Sara Kaye (12:36):
I mean, but I wouldn't urge him to.
Joanna (12:38):
I would be like man.
What's going on?
Why are we being attacked?
Sara Kaye (12:42):
Yeah, there you go, she's like you kill yourself.
Joanna (12:45):
Get away from me.
That's my problem with dying.
Sara Kaye (12:49):
I just envision her as like a practical gal, because
if she doesn't know how this isgoing to end, she's like I
don't know how this is going toend, but I know how you can end,
but anyway.
Joanna (12:57):
Oh my gosh, Poor Job.
Anyways, Job's amazing he neverloses his faith.
Sara Kaye (13:02):
He never loses his faith, even through all that,
Deserted by wife, by friends andseemingly by God, to Job's
faith wavered not.
Joanna (13:12):
Not an iota, not a little smidge.
Sara Kaye (13:14):
But since he proved his faith.
He got everything back he isrestored to health and nearly
all his earthly possessions arereturned fourfold.
So, yeah, he gets a wifeupgrade, and this is where
Elizabeth's like so, but afterthat, nothing more aside of his
first wife.
Joanna (13:32):
Yeah, she just they were like oh, you observed your
purpose.
Sara Kaye (13:35):
Yeah, this is like a plot device.
They're like we just needed youthere for something the main
character to bounce off of withsome, you know, adversarial
conditions.
Joanna (13:43):
We needed you throwing some more stones in his path.
Sara Kaye (13:45):
But his 10 children are restored.
Joanna (13:48):
Not the same children, they're just new.
I think that's funny, thatthey're just like and he just
got 10 more children.
It's not like they brought himback to life.
He got new ones with this newwife.
Sara Kaye (13:55):
Why did you say restored?
Oh, he just gets new ones withthe new wife yeah, that's how I
read it.
And then she, she says Godadorned them with great beauty.
Yeah, no woman being so fair,as they were daughters of Job.
Joanna (14:08):
So he really did upgrade the kids.
They must have not been goodlooking before.
Sara Kaye (14:12):
They were just like ugh.
Satan did them a favor.
Joanna (14:16):
Like what Trump would have kicked them right out.
Those kids got to go, man.
Sara Kaye (14:22):
Edit that out no kids in Trump.
I also had a note too, so it'sa reward.
So how can god?
It's a reward to make thembeautiful.
But yeah, in previous storieslike it was ruth.
Joanna (14:38):
Yeah, it's like you need to.
Sara Kaye (14:40):
You know beauty is not like don't have a beautiful
wife because that's notimportant and stuff.
Joanna (14:45):
And now this makes it where, like, hey, you can
upgrade.
Sara Kaye (14:49):
But beautiful daughters.
They're worth a lot of money,that's true, you can probably
get even more farm animals forthose.
Joanna (14:54):
Yeah, you know, this Bible is digging on the
good-looking, fair-faced virgins.
They're the best.
Sara Kaye (15:02):
They're the most valuable.
Joanna (15:06):
And so at the very end she's— oh, go ahead.
Sara Kaye (15:08):
I was just going to wrap up this with her last
sentence.
Joanna (15:10):
Oh, yeah, yeah, it's a good one.
I got it highlighted.
Stop, it Must be the slain, ohmy God, is it this one, whether
(15:31):
Dinah lived to cheer Job'sdeclining years or whether she
was replaced, like the rest ofthe things in his life, and
apparently that did not like hewasn't like, but I didn't miss
the other things.
God is still great, even thoughhe took all that.
Sara Kaye (15:44):
I don't know, I just think it's a weird parable.
And if they're married like,why is it just a test on Job?
Joanna (15:51):
Yeah, and why did she have to go?
Is he that great of a guy if hejust like got rid of her?
But I mean she did ask him tokill himself.
Sara Kaye (15:59):
I didn't see this, but Elizabeth wrote she's like
much more sympathy has beenexpressed by women for the wife
than for Job, so I guess we fellinto it too.
Joanna (16:07):
But I mean seriously though.
I mean she kind of got morescrewed, she didn't get any more
kids.
Sara Kaye (16:13):
Well, here's the thing she inadvertently was
tested too.
Joanna (16:17):
But she doesn't get a book named after her.
Sara Kaye (16:21):
She wasn't as important, her faith wasn't as
important.
So, when she was like, shewasn't as important, her faith
wasn't as important.
Joanna (16:26):
So when she was like she's a woman, she's a woman,
she's a woman, she's abackground character.
Yeah, crazy yeah crazy.
Sara Kaye (16:33):
Let's move on.
Joanna (16:34):
Yeah, well, that was Job .
I mean basically it's just likeit's two pages.
It's in there.
You have to be faithful againstall odds.
And um again, the woman isexpendable.
Sara Kaye (16:45):
You might get your fortune back fourfold yeah might
maybe, if you're tested it's agood thing.
So if you're ever curled up inthe fetal position, just keep on
trucking but I like the wholetest of satan was about belief,
so that is really again.
We just have yeah, keep, thatis the core, keep the faith.
Joanna (17:06):
Don't just keep the faith.
Don't question what's happening.
There's always a reason.
That's what Job is all about.
God's plan yeah, it's God'splan.
And just keep, keep, keep thatfaith, keep praying, keep doing
what you're doing and you'll getyour kids back.
Sara Kaye (17:22):
And you'll get.
You'll get your kids back andyou'll get your kids back but a
better wife and better kids.
Joanna (17:26):
Better kids, you get everything.
I bet the cows gave more milk.
I mean, come on.
Sara Kaye (17:33):
I wonder if there's a lost book of Dinah you know I
was thinking.
Joanna (17:37):
You know I hear about Satan here.
Does Satan have a book?
I want to know more I just wantto know more about this guy.
Sara Kaye (17:46):
I think there's a few books about him.
Joanna (17:48):
I mean, like biblical books, I want the book of Satan.
Oh my God, this is going to be.
I mean, just like they left itout, I just it's a real question
?
Sara Kaye (18:01):
No, it is a real question, it's a real question.
Joanna (18:03):
I know he's a fallen angel and ever since seeing
Dogma I was like you're right.
Sara Kaye (18:07):
Yes, we don't know, I don't know, we don't know.
So we have, and it really isthe.
It's like two pages on Job, andthen it flips right to the
books of Psalms, proverbs,ecclesiastes, and then it says
the Song of Solomon.
Joanna (18:22):
Song of Solomon, song of Solomon Ecclesiastes, the
Ecclesiastes, that's thepriesties, right, ecclesiastes.
This is all the.
They're like lessons, right?
They're lessons, proverbsbasically.
Sara Kaye (18:35):
And then this really is.
This is only like three pageshere.
She only picks like six sevenpsalms, but remember she's
selecting things that have to dowith Women and rights Women and
rights.
Joanna (18:49):
Yeah, it starts with psalms, and psalms is like she
just picks out like I'm surepsalms is.
I got to be honest, I did notgo flip through the Bible and
see how long psalms is, but shejust picked out that little
short piece.
Sara Kaye (19:02):
There's like a, there's a lot of them.
Okay, that's my biblicalscholar thing.
There's like a hundred youflipped.
Joanna (19:09):
Yeah, but she just focused on these supposed to be
written by David, the David andGoliath that we learned great
things about, like we thought hewas great, but he's very flawed
, Mm-hmm.
But she said many of the poemsare beautiful in sentiment and
celebrated as specimens ofliterature, as are some passages
(19:32):
in Job, but the general tone ispessimistic and that's what we
see later.
Sara Kaye (19:40):
All these kings.
This is what I learned withthese last chapters kings as
they get older they're cranky.
Joanna (19:47):
Well, it's funny.
You know they got everythingthey wanted.
You know all these wives, allthese things.
You would think that peoplewouldn't be so obsessed with
wealth.
You would think that whenyou're reading this, like the
Bible followers Right.
Sara Kaye (20:01):
And you would think that they would be more
comforted by their faith.
Rather than worldly things,worldly things, but the psalms
that she picks are about king'sdaughters and beauty right.
Joanna (20:15):
Yeah, yeah, she only picked a few.
Sara Kaye (20:18):
Yeah, nothing really stood out to me she goes.
Yet David, in the twilight ofhis days, seemed to dwell in the
shadows of despair in sackclothyeah, which I forgot Job was in
a sackcloth for a while, whenhe was having trouble, yeah.
Sackcloth love it.
Joanna (20:33):
Am I imagining like they're like literally wearing,
like they quit wearing clothesand they're just like I am just
devoutly praying, yeah.
Sara Kaye (20:41):
I just envision.
So people know that you're Likea green sack with like a slit
at the top.
Well, that's what.
Joanna (20:47):
I'm thinking my sorry sack that remember.
Sara Kaye (20:49):
I told you when I yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joanna (20:50):
But why, like is that for everybody else to know that
like I'm oh, actually that's myquestion.
I didn't look that up.
You know what I did want a deepdive on sackcloth.
I'm like now that I'm, now thatI can see it says in sackcloth
and ashes.
Sara Kaye (21:09):
So actually it might've just been a type of
fabric, but yeah, it's probablyjust like a little wrap.
Joanna (21:11):
I'm just curious but it's definitely like a pashmina,
but it's rough.
But it's something when you'refeeling bad and you wear it Like
if you're feeling, I mean theremust be.
I don't know, I'll tell younext week because I'll look.
I'll look at it.
Sara Kaye (21:24):
Okay, you better look up on that sackcloth.
I'm going to do my sackclothdive.
Joanna (21:28):
I'm going to deep dive in a sackcloth.
Maybe I'll find a picture of mein my sackcloth.
Sara Kaye (21:33):
What if we just wear sackcloth until the
administration changes?
Oh my gosh, I really thinkpeople Wait until I do my
research, and then maybe that.
Joanna (21:41):
Okay, that would cause a big it's going to cause a wave
and that'll change things.
We'll be change starters.
Sara Kaye (21:49):
Don't worry anybody, we got it handled we're going to
change the world withsackcloths.
Oh, I forgot, oh, it's like.
Oh, I was in the middle of aquote, so yet David, in the
twilight of his days, seemed todwell in the shadows of despair,
in sackcloth and ashes,repenting for his own sins and
bemoaning the evil tendency ofmen in general.
Joanna (22:11):
Himself.
He's bemoaning himself.
He's like why was I?
Sara Kaye (22:12):
such a whore.
He's like I had a moth in myhands when I killed the giant
and then I went and got greedyyeah.
I'm glad he feels bad about ithonestly, there is a passing
mention of the existence ofwomen as imaginary beings in the
Psalms.
The passing mention of theexistence of women as imaginary
beings in the Psalms, theProverbs and the Song of Solomon
, but not illustrated by anygrand personalities or
individual characters.
Joanna (22:31):
Yeah, they talk about women, no names.
Sara Kaye (22:34):
Right, and so he's mostly just writing about how
men are lame.
Joanna (22:40):
Like, women are great, men are lame.
Sara Kaye (22:42):
Well, not really.
That's not what he says, youknow, he is talking about the
evil tendencies of men.
Yeah, towards women which thatpart is fascinating because to
this day we still use the phraseboys will be boys.
I hate that phrase.
Joanna (22:59):
I know it's gross, it's like a universal, you know
unaccountability situation.
Yes, unaccountability, becauseI'm like what about girls?
Sara Kaye (23:07):
will be girls.
I mean, just imagine a worldwhere nobody said that and
everybody is just like heldaccountable.
Joanna (23:13):
Yeah for your actions as a human.
Can we just be?
Sara Kaye (23:15):
human.
If people have evil tendenciesby nature, then they should
probably not be in society.
Right or getting help in a—yeah, oh, that's nice Right,
that was nice of you, thank you.
You know it's later at nightI'm a little more.
Joanna (23:30):
Or we can help them.
I was going to give them anisland or something.
Oh, we're not going to helpthem get better.
No, we'll help, but maybethey're the Satan.
I don't know.
I don't Evil tendencies, but itdoes go back to Bathsheba,
(23:52):
which I think is funny, becauseone of the priests I follow, the
Episcopal priest, was talkingabout David the other day and he
did this cute little thing andhe was like he did this, this
and he raped and blah, blah,blah.
And he went in and he goes yeah, did you hear me?
Yeah, I said David raped her.
She never gave consent.
This is a priest that's like inaction right now.
Sara Kaye (24:11):
It has to be a West Coast.
I'm like that is a West Coast,yeah, it's a Cali guy.
Joanna (24:15):
Is it really?
Yeah, he's from Cali, but yeah.
Sara Kaye (24:18):
I'm like, oh God, but look at it.
Joanna (24:28):
David's treatment troubled him for this act to the
end of his days.
We are not told whetherBathsheba ever dropped a tear
over the sad fate of Uriah orsuffered any unbraidings of
conscience, so they don't talkabout her being taken advantage
of, which I find interesting,Because really, David sent Uriah
to be killed, you know, and hejust took her.
(24:50):
So it's like, oh well, I meanhe just, you know, he took care
of her because he killed thehusband.
But no, like he basically tookher and yeah, you're right, she
didn't give any, say like, yeah,I'll go with you.
Yeah, she had to go with himbecause her husband was killed
by him and he was a king.
Sara Kaye (25:05):
Yeah, I mean, what are you going to do?
Totally nonconsensual.
So what I had here as a note ishow, even though we're saying
that he is a dark passage andmaybe he regrets it, but we're
seeing these first examples ofwhat they now call spiritual
bypassing.
So instead of actually takinglike full responsibility and
(25:28):
examining feelings or writingabout his actual role in it.
He's just handing it over toGod, so he doesn't have to like
examine it too much and askingfor mercy.
So it's like when?
So have you heard that termspiritual bypassing.
Joanna (25:43):
I have not.
Sara Kaye (25:44):
So say you're like talking to a friend who's very
religious and you're like, oh,this is going on and trying to
express like you're worriedabout finding a job or your home
or things are going bad, andthey just say, well, just trust
in the Lord.
Oh, so it's a way of avoiding,like, any personal examination
and that is a repeat and stuffthat we see throughout.
(26:04):
You know, the internal life ishanded over.
Joanna (26:08):
Yeah, it's so hard.
You know, I've been thinkingabout this a lot lately because,
you know, when something badhappens to someone, you always
say, well, I'll pray for you,right?
Well, now that I've been doingthis and really thinking about
things, I'm like I pray to theuniverse and to all.
Like it's still a prayer, yeah,yeah.
(26:28):
So I've been reexamining myidea of what a prayer is,
because how do you send good,like you're sending good vibes?
It really is a prayer.
Sara Kaye (26:36):
So I've been really consciously being like, okay,
I'm calling on all my ancestorsand I am sending If you have
like little particles floatingaround, could you just go float
over Sarah Kay for a little bit?
That's right.
That's when people are like I'msending you whatever vibes I'm
thinking you know, send, and wejust equate prayer with
Christian prayers and that's not.
Joanna (26:57):
And it's not Because you can pray in a different way to
the universe.
That's kind of how I thinkWe've got to pray.
Pray to the universe, that'skind of how I think We've got to
pray.
Sara Kaye (27:05):
Pray, remember MC Hammer.
Joanna (27:06):
Yes, okay thank you, I do Thank you.
Sara Kaye (27:09):
So he's like he feels bad about it.
But he's not like examining hisbad feelings, he just wants God
to take those away, yeah, whenhe's like.
Have mercy upon me, oh God.
According to thy lovingkindness, according unto the
multitude of thy tender mercies,Blot out my transgressions.
Blot them out.
Actually, I might use that.
That's a good request.
Joanna (27:30):
Oh my gosh.
Sara Kaye (27:30):
Yes, I like it Blot out my transgressions, but I do
remember from being a kid Iremember kind of digging some of
the psalms.
Joanna (27:38):
Yeah, there were some good ones.
Yeah, there's some really goodones.
There's some good ones.
Sara Kaye (27:41):
They're not in here, of course they're not going to
be.
In the women's Bible there werea song.
Joanna (27:44):
There's a good song of psalms, the Song of Psalms.
Love it, I don't know.
I remember thinking psalms weregreat, these ones that she—.
Sara Kaye (27:53):
Psalms they're great.
I don't remember any of these.
Yeah, well, you know don't wantto say it, I'm like that's not.
Joanna (28:07):
I feel like they were more like happy songs.
They were, they're sure, thatthey shared in my childhood.
Sara Kaye (28:14):
Actually, I think the next section, the.
Joanna (28:16):
Proverbs are weird.
Sara Kaye (28:18):
What the selection here listeners Was so weird.
Joanna (28:22):
Yeah, and she bounces around, so she's picking some
good ones.
I'm not quite sure.
Sara Kaye (28:25):
The numbers.
That's right she picks.
I'm looking at here.
I'm just saying there'sprobably like 20 different ones.
Joanna (28:31):
There's got to be 8 million problems.
Sara Kaye (28:32):
They're all over the place, but they're the ones that
well, for example, what is this?
913, a foolish woman isclamorous, she is simple and
knoweth nothing.
Okay, thanks, Bible Withnothing.
Okay, thanks Bible.
Joanna (28:43):
Yeah, A gracious woman retaineth honor, and strong men
retain riches.
That's so gross, right, strongmen retain riches?
Sara Kaye (28:52):
Is that where the whole prosperity gospel is yeah.
Joanna (28:54):
I think so, oh yeah, this whole thing is just filled
with weird crap.
Sara Kaye (29:00):
I'm kidding.
I'm glad that Elizabeth shecould have just like.
This whole thing is filled withweird crap, but instead she the
Proverbs do go after the sonstoo.
Joanna (29:11):
A foolish son is a grief to his father and a bitterness
to her.
That bear him.
That would be his mother, Hello.
Sara Kaye (29:18):
I kind of I'm digging these because they remind me
you know of you know, likeBenjamin Franklin.
Oh, like early to bed, early torise, and this is like you know
, it is better to dwell in thewilderness than with a
contentious and angry woman.
Joanna (29:34):
I know that one that is hilarious that's not bad that's
hilarious, but it shouldn't bewoman that's the thing.
Sara Kaye (29:41):
I should be a human.
Joanna (29:44):
Yeah, it is better to dwell in the wilderness than
with a contentious and angryhuman.
Sara Kaye (29:47):
They could not get enough human Contentious right
and a continual dropping in avery rainy day and a contentious
women are alike.
Joanna (29:56):
Just like they just like beat down on you, Like it's
fine Just a nag, just a smalland then all of a sudden, you're
soaking wet.
Sara Kaye (30:02):
Oh my For an odious woman when she is married.
A handmaid that is heir to hermistress, I mean, what was?
Joanna (30:08):
that, what is an?
Sara Kaye (30:09):
odious woman For a certain.
Joanna (30:10):
That's why I want to know what odious is, because I
go to odor and I'm like she justdangled my mouth.
Sara Kaye (30:17):
You keep writing those.
I'm going to look it up.
Yeah, look it up.
Joanna (30:29):
I'm Um Odious.
Read me some more proverbs.
Who can find a virtuous womanfor her?
Sara Kaye (30:31):
price is far above rubies, like that's in the Bible
.
Yeah, actually, did you knowthere's a movie with Renee
Zellweger called A Price AboveRubies?
What yeah?
Joanna (30:39):
Oh my gosh, Wait, was she sold to somebody?
Sara Kaye (30:43):
No, but it is about she's.
I think she's like a oh my gosh, like an Orthodox Jewish woman,
okay, okay, and I don't knowthe whole plot, but it's about
her and her husband.
Joanna (30:56):
I mean there's definitely some, and it is
dramatic.
It's very dramatic.
Of course, renee Zellweger,come on.
Sara Kaye (31:02):
Oh my gosh odious.
How could we not know this?
Joanna (31:04):
What is this?
Sara Kaye (31:06):
Extremely unpleasant.
Oh, repulsive.
Joanna (31:09):
Oh my gosh.
Well, you know stinky yeah, butyeah, yeah.
Sara Kaye (31:15):
I was going with odor .
You're in the realm.
Joanna (31:17):
You're in the realm An odious woman when she is married
and a handmaid that is heir toher mistress what the I know?
And a handmaid that is heir toher mistress.
Sara Kaye (31:25):
What does that mean?
Joanna (31:26):
I know she has a handmaid, because I am watching
Handmaid's Tale now and I'm likethat stuff is weird.
Sara Kaye (31:32):
I love this Wait.
What she openeth her mouth withwisdom and in her tongue, is
the law of kindness.
Joanna (31:40):
See, those are nice.
Sara Kaye (31:41):
That's sweet, that's a nice one.
Joanna (31:43):
That's a nice one.
There are some nice ones.
She stretcheth out her hand tothe poor.
Yeah, cool, cool.
That's a nice one.
Sara Kaye (31:51):
I could go on reading these.
Joanna (31:52):
Now I'm like I'm really into this.
Well, they're interesting.
Sara Kaye (31:56):
But Elizabeth says right here with these pen
pictures of the foolish,contentious wife contrasted with
the more gracious woman.
Surely every reader of CommonSense will try to follow the
example of the latter.
It's like obvious.
She's like come on, Acomplaining woman is worse than
a leaky house.
Joanna (32:12):
This is so funny.
I have an experience, I know.
Sara Kaye (32:16):
Because with paint and putty you can stop the
dropping.
But how can one find the sourceof constant complaints?
Joanna (32:22):
All she does is complain .
I know, I just wish you were aleaky house.
I'd mud you up.
Sara Kaye (32:29):
Shut you up.
I like how she writes about thebiblical writers and this it's
a change in format in what she'stalking about, the epigrammatic
sentences.
It was the most ancient way ofteaching among the Greeks.
This kind of short, you knowsentences, like contentious
women's, like you know a drop ofrain on your head.
Joanna (32:47):
Yeah yeah, it's quick learning, you know.
Keep this with you, keep thisthought with you.
Sara Kaye (32:53):
So how come it switches?
Why did you start talking aboutSolomon?
Joanna (32:58):
Well, I think they all kind of Well this is what.
Sara Kaye (33:01):
Oh, she said, david, he just wrote that.
Solomon and stuff like thatDavid wrote the Psalms.
Joanna (33:06):
Yeah, and Solomon wrote the Proverbs I don't—Solomon
wrote.
I thought the rest of them,well, she's—yeah, she is it was
Solomon.
Sara Kaye (33:14):
Yeah, he wrote— Aren't you glad you're listening
to this podcast where we'relike?
One of these dudes wrote this.
It's right here.
Solomon's idea of a wise woman,a good mother, a prudent wife,
a saving housekeeper andsuccessful merchant will be
found in the foregoing text, yes, which every woman who reads
should have printed, framed andhung up at her family altar.
Joanna (33:33):
I think she's being cheeky.
There Is she.
I think she's being a lotcheeky as.
Sara Kaye (33:37):
Solomon had a thousand women in his household.
He had a great opportunity forthe study of the characteristics
of the sex, though one wouldnaturally suppose that wise
women, even in his day,preferred a larger sphere of
action than within his palacewalls.
Joanna (33:50):
She's so sassy.
Nice job, solomon, but theydidn't want in there.
Sara Kaye (33:54):
Yeah, trust me, he's like so Elizabeth is saying, yes
, he had a thousand wives, butnone of them could have been
that fun, interesting or cool,Because they were like or cool,
Because they were like heldhostage.
Yeah, she's like nobody coolwould be down with that.
Joanna (34:10):
I mean, I hope not.
So yeah, so this turns intoSolomon.
So he writes the Song ofSolomon when he's young.
Proverbs he wrote middle oflife, and then Ecclesiastes when
he was old.
Sara Kaye (34:25):
Okay, that's there you go.
And I like this.
He gave admirable rules forwisdom and virtue to all classes
, to men, to women and tochildren, but failed to practice
these lessons which he taught.
Joanna (34:37):
Yeah, isn't that the problem Rules?
Sara Kaye (34:39):
for thee, not for me.
Joanna (34:42):
Oh, I like that.
Yeah, that seems to be theproblem with the world.
Sara Kaye (34:46):
Very strong paragraphs there from Elizabeth,
very sassy I like it.
She's like oh yeah, print theseout, don't be odious.
Joanna (34:54):
Hang those up and live your life.
Yeah, please.
Sara Kaye (34:57):
Ecclesiastes.
Yes See, I'm telling you, theseare only like a page.
Joanna (35:01):
They're a page.
I I love it.
This is quick.
There must not have been a lotof contentiousness in there.
Sara Kaye (35:05):
Yeah, the book written in Solomon's old age.
So, ecclesiastes, do you havenotes on?
Joanna (35:09):
this.
I don't have really any notes.
Solomon just sounds like acrybaby.
Sara Kaye (35:16):
Yes, everything in life seems to have been
disappointing to him.
Joanna (35:20):
Yeah, I hate to bring it back, but it seems like the
leaders today that are ruiningthe world Very similar bring it
back, but it seems like theleaders today that are ruining
the world.
They are like this guy becausehe had everything.
That's kind of what I wassaying about David too.
These kings had everything, butit was disappointing.
I'm not getting anything.
I don't feel better.
I keep getting more and I don'tfeel better, so I'm just going
(35:42):
to keep getting more.
So wealth, position, learning,all earthly possessions and
acquirements he declares aliketo be vanity of vanities and
vexation of spirit.
Yet he had them all.
He's just like.
It's not that great.
I tried it.
Sara Kaye (35:57):
So the lesson is that's not that great, so maybe
you can find comfort in faith,right?
Is that what they're trying tosay?
Joanna (36:04):
Or are they just?
Sara Kaye (36:04):
like all kings, are miserable.
The Ecclesiastes I like thispart where it says Then I saw
that wisdom excelleth folly, asfar as light excelleth darkness.
The wise man's eyes are in hishead, but the fool walketh in
darkness, and I myself perceivedalso that one event happeneth
to them all.
Joanna (36:25):
I love the words in here you get old, you get wise.
Sara Kaye (36:27):
I love the words in here.
Joanna (36:29):
There are some nice ones .
I like when they say saith.
Sara Kaye (36:32):
It just adds that TH it does it really?
It hits different.
It does it's more powerful,it's more.
Joanna (36:38):
he said it's more powerful.
Sara Kaye (36:40):
You don't walk down the hallway, you walketh.
Joanna (36:43):
Walketh.
I like the wise man's eyes arein his head, but the fool, I'm
sorry.
Sara Kaye (36:50):
I thought that was the whole thing the wise man's
ears on the side of his head Onthe side of his face.
Joanna (36:57):
But the fool walketh in darkness, and I myself perceived
also that one event happeneththem all.
Sara Kaye (37:06):
That's what I'm saying.
Joanna (37:07):
Happeneth, yeah, happeneth.
So, whether you're wise orfoolish, the events still happen
.
Sara Kaye (37:13):
I like that.
Is that what that means?
I don't know.
As I'm reading this, I'm likethis is not good stuff to read
right nowadays, because it'slike—.
I know she's like wholecongregations of educated men
and women, day after day, yearafter year, confessing
themselves miserable sinners,with no evident improvement from
generation to generation andthose are the episcopals and I'm
telling you nowadays they arequite lovely.
Joanna (37:33):
I don't know the ones that I found on the talk um are
lovely like this is theepiscopalian.
Actually I'm following at leastthree Episcopal reverends.
Sara Kaye (37:45):
What if that's because TikTok wants you?
I think I know who you'retalking about.
Some of them are awesome.
Joanna (37:49):
It's on Reels and it's also.
I found them in differentplaces and then I went and
looked for some too.
And then I met one the othernight in real life Susan the
Episcopalian.
She was great.
Real life Susan theEpiscopalian.
She was great.
She didn't say anything aboutfaith we were there for John
Lewis, but she seemed lovely.
Sara Kaye (38:06):
Like a memory of that .
These are lovely people.
Joanna (38:08):
So, and then he says one they're saying Episcopalians
are just, you are always sinning, so how can you, how can you,
how can you?
Sara Kaye (38:17):
improve.
Right before that she said yeah, the Episcopalian service is
demoralizing in this.
Joanna (38:20):
Yeah.
Sara Kaye (38:21):
So is she Elizabeth?
You never know.
I wish I knew a little bit more.
I bet there's some scholarsthat could be like she was.
You know this section.
Joanna (38:29):
Yeah, I want to know.
I thought she was Protestant.
I told you there's so manybranches, we're never taking a
break again I'm like who'sElizabeth Cady Stanton?
Sara Kaye (38:44):
Stop, stanton, stop it, I'm just kidding.
So the last part.
She gives another thing Onewise man among a thousand have I
found, but a woman among allthose have I not found.
Joanna (38:49):
Yeah, because you're at a thousand, maybe, maybe because
you're taking them and the wisewomen hate your guts and
they're not going to tell youhow wise they are.
Sara Kaye (38:58):
Solomon, hey, Solomon focus Focus on one Come on
Elizabeth is like Solomon musthave had a sad experience in his
relations with women, such anopinion and grave reflection on
his own mother who was sodevoted to his success in the
world.
Joanna (39:13):
Yeah, she's the only reason he got the job, is it?
Sara Kaye (39:15):
Yeah, but for her ambition he would never have
been crowned king of Israel.
Joanna (39:19):
Yeah, Because her ambition he would never have
been crowned king of Israel.
Yeah, because David hadforgotten all about him.
Sara Kaye (39:22):
Let that be a lesson to you, oh my.
Joanna (39:25):
Lord, and then she doesn't?
Sara Kaye (39:27):
we're almost, we're moving on to the last, but she
does say to the public, thecommentators, that's her.
Joanna (39:32):
I would think the commentators vouchsafed the
opinion that there are more goodwomen than men.
It is very kind in some of thecommentators to give us a word
of praise now and then, but fromthe general tone of the learned
fabulist one would think thatthe Jezebels and JLs
predominated.
In fact, solomon says that hehas not found one woman in a
(39:55):
thousand, she's like.
But the commenters are likesaying there's all these good
women.
But he's there like eh, nonethat I took.
Sara Kaye (40:04):
So I'm like the common denominator dude, you
know what I mean.
Yeah, like figure it out, buddy.
Joanna (40:10):
Yeah, maybe it's you and you live so long you'd think in
your old age, I know, and thenI think it's funny.
So they did the old age, youngage.
Now she ends with Song ofSolomon, which he wrote when he
was young, a young man.
Sara Kaye (40:27):
I don't know why she did it that way and apparently
they don't think it should be inthe Bible at all.
I didn't know that, Maybe.
I wonder if that's changed.
Joanna (40:31):
The Jewish doctors.
Sara Kaye (40:32):
This is 130 years old , maybe I wonder if it's not in
there anymore.
Joanna (40:35):
I don't know, you know what Song of Solomon.
Sara Kaye (40:37):
If we had a podcast to talk about this stuff, I
would totally research thatbefore we talked about it.
You would like that?
I would look it up.
We'll check.
We'll get back to you.
Joanna (40:46):
But there's so many different versions of the Bible.
Sara Kaye (40:48):
Yeah.
Joanna (40:48):
There's a new one called the Kodachrome.
I don't think it's theKodachrome, it's something close
to that, the Kodachrome.
Sara Kaye (40:53):
They color-coded it.
Joanna (40:55):
The Jewish advise that their young people not read the
Book of Solomon until they were30.
Sara Kaye (41:03):
I was fascinated by that.
Joanna (41:04):
Why 30?
I'll tell you why Tell us why30 is when they were supposed to
be more susceptible tospiritual beauties and virtues
than the mere attractions offace and form.
Sara Kaye (41:20):
Which is a lie.
Joanna (41:21):
I know plenty of 30-year-olds that are still
attracted to face and form,which is a lie.
I know plenty of 30-year-oldsthat are still attracted to face
and form, but maybe you couldjust pair it out better.
You're not so eager.
You've had a little taste ofthe both.
Sara Kaye (41:31):
It was 30 years old back in 1800s oh yeah, you're
half dead, right, yeah, you'rehalf dead.
If not on your deathbed.
Joanna (41:38):
Yeah, so I thought that was interesting that they were
like ooh, this is sultry the.
Sara Kaye (41:42):
Song of Solomon.
Joanna (41:44):
Yeah, so Solomon winds up being a little bitter, but
the Song of Solomon is just likea love story.
Sara Kaye (41:51):
Well, that's wistful.
So we have, oh my gosh, buckleup.
This is like the last bits.
Are you ready?
I'm ready.
Are you ready?
The closing books of the lastbits.
Are you ready?
I'm ready.
Are you ready?
The closing books of the OldTestament.
Do a drum roll, thank you.
Joanna (42:07):
This is it.
Sara Kaye (42:08):
This is books of Isaiah and Daniel and Micah and
Malachi in four pages.
They're going to wrap us upquickly.
They are the closing books.
Make but little.
And this is why there's justscant words from Stanton on this
, she says because they make butlittle mention of women as
illustrating individualcharacteristics.
(42:29):
So sad.
The ideal woman is used more asa standard of comparison for
good and for evil they are andwe usually end up being evil.
Joanna (42:38):
So sad, wicked women.
Sara Kaye (42:40):
Oh, don't make me.
Joanna (42:41):
You know what I mean Wicked women.
You know what I'm saying yeah.
Sara Kaye (42:44):
The good women representing the elements of
success in building up thefamily, the tribe, the nation as
devout worshiper of the God ofIsrael.
The wicked women.
Woman the elements ofdestruction and the downfall of
great cities and nations.
Women.
Joanna (42:58):
As women.
Sara Kaye (42:59):
As woman, woman, I keep on.
It seems like that should bewomen, but whatever.
But no, I think.
As woman is chosen, oh, she'susing it, as in you can say as
man yeah.
As woman, is chosen to representthe extremes of human
conditions, she has no specialreason to complain.
Oh, snap, snap, snap.
You are just here to help usPair things out, pair things out
(43:22):
, pair things out.
How is that any different from2025?
It's not, sadly, okay.
Collective.
So, isaiah, yeah, I have barelyanything.
She doesn't write much.
I was like so, Isaiah, twowords.
Well, no, she picks out thisthing.
(43:43):
Oh, I do love this.
She doesn't write much.
I was like so, isaiah, twowords.
Well, no, she picks out thisthing where?
Joanna (43:46):
he's going off on what women are wearing, which is
great.
Actually, it's just like whyare you wearing all of this?
You shouldn't be tinklingaround.
You should just be praying, isthat?
Sara Kaye (43:55):
Yeah.
Joanna (43:56):
Yeah, that's exactly.
Sara Kaye (43:56):
But I love the word tinkling you like tinkling I do,
of course I do Tinkling around.
So, moreover, the Lord saith,because the daughters of Zion
are haughty and walk withstretched forth necks and wanton
eyes, walking and mincing asthey go and making a tinkling
with their feet.
Joanna (44:17):
It sounds like they're feeling themselves, like they're
just confident.
Yeah, they're just confident.
Yeah, they're wearing thattinkling and that is frowned
upon.
Sara Kaye (44:26):
Don't be showy, be humble, isn't that so?
Joanna (44:31):
And look at how much Tinkling makes me happy.
Sara Kaye (44:34):
To this day, women are policed in how they look
constantly.
Oh my God, Even young kids.
Joanna (44:40):
The whole stupid dress code thing in schools with the
dang tank tops, spaghetti strapsversus a dude wearing it Right?
I don't like give me a break.
Sara Kaye (44:53):
I know, well, you know, those shoulders create
lustful thoughts.
Oh, I can't, man, when I see ashoulder, ooh, we're going to
have to censor that.
Be sure to beep that one out.
Don't say shoulder or anklearound here.
So it is, and you're talkingabout.
They're wearing the ankle.
Joanna (45:09):
I just love this they say tinkling away.
Sara Kaye (45:12):
So, yeah, it's about stuff that they wear, and I'm
trying to see if Elizabethreally has much to say.
He does not like their style ofwalking which, from the
description, must have been muchlike the mincing gait of some
women today.
Joanna (45:23):
Yeah, she goes in and she's like, well, if this is
what we're living by, then webetter have a chat with all
these people wearing Easterbonnets and veils and all this
crap.
Sara Kaye (45:33):
They're coming to church.
Joanna (45:35):
Did they not read Isaiah ?
Sara Kaye (45:37):
I know you think tinkling ankles is bad.
Joanna (45:41):
Come take a look at these earrings and these
feathers.
Sara Kaye (45:45):
She says the mufflers .
I love mufflers, I do too themufflers, the bales, the glasses
and girdles.
Elizabeth, you got it.
If the prophets, instead of theFrench milliners and
dressmakers, could supervise thetoilets of our women, they
would dress in far better taste.
Joanna (46:01):
Apparently, she has no use for all of those frivalties
Frivolities, that's another wordin there.
Sara Kaye (46:07):
Do you think she's like mad that some people have
French dressmakers?
Joanna (46:11):
I don't know, but no, because I think she has them.
She's rich, remember I knowYou're right, you're right,
she's rich.
Sara Kaye (46:16):
Right.
She's rich she's got time towrite books about.
Joanna (46:20):
No I think she liked it.
But then when she had all thekids she just became a little
more dressed down yeah, you know.
Sara Kaye (46:27):
I just want you to know that my notes on this next
section for daniel actually sayszzz.
Am I missing something?
Joanna (46:39):
what does that mean?
Oh, because it was sleepy.
Yeah, I actually onlyhighlighted one thing.
Sara Kaye (46:44):
Well, tell me so well , tell us what it's about the
name of this prophet, and he wasDemiel.
I think it's funny.
Joanna (46:52):
First of all, who changed the names?
Why wouldn't they just keep itthe same?
His Chaldean name wasBethashazi that's cool, but now
he's Daniel Weird.
Betheshazi, that's cool, butnow he's Daniel Weird.
Sara Kaye (47:04):
Beth Shazi.
That's a great name.
Joanna (47:06):
I know that's way better than Daniel.
Sara Kaye (47:08):
Or Shazai, Okay anyways.
Joanna (47:09):
Whatever, there's so many.
Sara Kaye (47:11):
So Joseph calls him one of the greatest prophets.
So they talk about this king.
Joanna (47:16):
There's a guy that has something he gets this writing.
He can't read it, he can'tfigure it out.
All the wise men soothsayers,they can't read it.
And his queen says, hey,there's this dude named Daniel,
I bet he can read it.
He reads it and from what Itake from this, he translated it
.
But from what I get from whatElizabeth says is that he did a
(47:40):
pretty poor job.
But they were like, eh, he's anold guy, he's an old guy.
The interpretation ends up beingis thou are weighted in the
balance and art found in wanting.
Thy kingdom is divided andgiven to the Maidens and
Persians.
And he just said that's what itsaid.
(48:02):
So they clothed him in scarlet,made him like a sounds like a
cardinal or something, clothedhim in scarlet, put a chain of
gold about his neck and he wouldbe the third ruler because he
translated it.
Historians say that Cyrus wasat this time besieging the city
and they knew of this feast andtook the opportunity to make his
(48:22):
attack and slay the king, whileDaniel was getting all of this
pomp and circumstance fortranslating.
Sara Kaye (48:29):
Okay, and the women come in this story with the
queen entering to advise theking.
Okay, yeah, gotcha.
See, this is probably why I waslike snazzy because Elizabeth
had done such a great you knowsassy job the last time.
Joanna (48:45):
But this is, she kind of just doing a little more like
summary and reporting yeah,she's like, the interpretation
which Daniel gave of thesemystic characters was far from
easing the king from his fearsand, daniel being in years and
Belshazzar being still young, hetook greater liberty in dealing
plainly with him than he hadwith his father and he read the
(49:06):
warning as written on the wallThou hast been weighted in the
balance and found waiting.
And the king kept his promiseand still gave, even though he
didn't like it.
Like it didn't, the translationdidn't please the king because
it wasn't good, because itsounded like the Persians were
going to divide his kingdom.
Right, but he still made Davidthe dude Okay.
(49:28):
But, I don't see anythingrelated to women, so I'm not
quite sure why.
Yeah, or like Read a tab?
Sara Kaye (49:35):
It was the queen.
The only role that women had is.
The queen said let prophetDavid come and translate.
Okay, yeah, sweet, daniel, yeahSweet, all right, and that's
Daniel.
I bet it's you know again,maybe the entire book of Daniel
is great.
Joanna (49:51):
Maybe, but that was a snoozer, that was a snoozer as
far as the women's Bible goes.
Yeah, there was nothing goodfor women.
Sara Kaye (49:57):
And I don't know Like snappies, we may have to pull
up a whole mattress because youknow to rest for how long.
This thing on, micah.
Oh my gosh, micah.
It's like a paragraph, it's notTwo verses, yeah.
Joanna (50:09):
Micah, micah, micah, micah.
And this is about.
This is the women Dishonoringyour father and mother.
Yeah, and mother-in-law.
Sara Kaye (50:18):
So it's Micah 2, verse 9.
The women of my people have yecast out from their pleasant
houses.
From their children have yetaken away by glory forever.
Joanna (50:31):
Micah.
7.
The women of my people.
Did I say that?
I'm just saying like, just thewomen, come on.
Sara Kaye (50:36):
Micah, yeah, and the children are taken away.
There's so much familydestruction in the Bible.
Joanna (50:44):
There's like people destruction.
They're like, oh, we want tolive here, let's kill everybody
Right, including the babies,right, the wives and children
are completely entertained,which again still doing today.
Sara Kaye (50:53):
I know Still going on .
Joanna (50:55):
Right now we're doing it While we're chatting.
Yeah.
Sara Kaye (50:59):
So Elizabeth just says the only thing I had Well
here.
Joanna (51:03):
Israelites are reproved for their cruel treatment of
their own people, robbing widowsand selling children into
slavery.
Family life as well as publicaffairs seem to have become
unsettled.
So things are going wonky, butit makes sense because we're
going to the end of the.
If the writers of the Biblewere like trying to get the book
too sadded, you know, part two.
(51:24):
Things are falling apart.
The contempt and the violationof the laws of domestic duties
are a sad symptom of universalcorruption.
I think we're in universalcorruption right now, but it's
for a totally different reason.
It's definitely not the womenbeing contentious and haughty
Sad symptom.
(51:45):
Check that out.
But yeah, that's all she saysabout that.
Sara Kaye (51:47):
but Israelites are rebuked.
That's the part you miss whenshe just picks the verse,
because I'm like, are theycondoning that?
Joanna (51:55):
No, no, no, they're saying, they're rebuked.
Okay, they're rebuking, themRebuked.
Thank you.
Sara Kaye (51:59):
They should have titled that Rebuking, rebuking
the women and the last, oh myGod, the last.
Joanna (52:06):
Malachi.
Sara Kaye (52:08):
I like his name.
I do too, but it reminds me ofChildren of the Corn, I know.
Joanna (52:11):
You can never name your kid Malachi.
Okay, malachi is, it's justabout marrying strange women,
which really means the strangewoman just means they are a
different religion, right?
Sara Kaye (52:22):
That's it.
But it was national law thatforbid them to marry strange
women.
Joanna (52:46):
And then so she goes on to say these Israelites were
always violating the nationallaw, which forb historians with
the intermarriage of the sons ofGod with the daughters of men,
meaning, I suppose, those of thetribes who had a different
religion.
So it's so funny because theykept picking those women.
It's not like they stuck to thelaw.
Sara Kaye (52:58):
Who's she quoting here where she says he that
marries a heathen woman is as ifhe made himself son-in-law to
the law?
Who's she quoting here whereshe says he that marries a
heathen woman is as if he madehimself son-in-law to an idol?
Joanna (53:07):
It must be quotes from the Bible, I would assume.
Sara Kaye (53:09):
Or she's done this before too where she'll quote
idioms or sayings of that time.
Joanna (53:15):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it could be one of those.
Or like a bird in the hand Isworth two in the bush.
Sara Kaye (53:22):
Remember she's like a diamond shining, a super shiny.
I don't know what she said.
I don't think it was that one.
But she said they put away thewives of their own nation and,
as was the fashion at one time,married those of other nations.
And then I should just note incase we have people super
following along like Bible style, she did Malachi 2, verse 11,
(53:44):
14, and 15.
So, really, she's just lookingat that part which is about
marrying strange women, Strangegods, but it does.
I like that it's ending up withthis theme, which is really
about the whole Old Testament,though, is about how women are
used to illustrate points andthey're not used as people
Charming women.
Thank you.
Joanna (54:04):
Of the Hittites is that Hittites and the Midianites.
Sara Kaye (54:08):
Sure.
Joanna (54:08):
With their novel dress, manners and conversation
attracted the men of Israel.
I mean, how could they helpthemselves?
They could not resist thetemptation when the strongest
man and the wisest one are alikeled captive.
There is no significance incalling women the weaker sex I
love.
Sara Kaye (54:29):
Elizabeth, I know she's like there's no
significance in that.
She's like when the strongestman and the wisest one are led
astray.
Yeah, how is it our fault?
Exactly how is it our fault,though few women appear in the
closing tragedies of the OldTestament, yet the
idiosyncrasies of the sex areconstantly used to point a moral
(54:50):
or to condemn a sin.
Joanna (54:52):
Yeah, point to a moral or condemn a sin, that's the
only thing we're used for.
And no responsibility on theman.
It's the women led them astray.
Nope, they were looking toogood, yep, and couldn't help
themselves.
You know which it's reallytying in today?
Because, you know, obviously wehave a lot going on in the news
with women being not respected,even children, girls, all these
(55:18):
girls that were in the Epsteinfiles, right, totally not even
referred to as children, butthey're just called young women,
even though they're 12 and 13.
And I'm just like so grossedout that this shit is still
going on.
Sara Kaye (55:53):
This is exactly what I was going to bring up as well
is that in current culture, weonly hear the names, or just
even you know, not names of,like the Epstein victims brought
up to make a political point,just like the woman and I hate
that I can't remember her nameright now, but the woman- that
the brutal crime happened.
That was done by an illegal now, but the woman that the brutal
crime happened, that was done byan illegal.
Joanna (56:07):
oh, so they'll bring up these women's names, but only to
illustrate.
Sara Kaye (56:09):
Yeah a point, not to like look at the bigger problem,
right, but rather just toprogress their party for exactly
but seeing that was kind of thewhole playbook from 2,000 years
ago and it's still working,though it's probably so hard to
understand, like it, doesn't?
We don't have to think likethat, you know.
Joanna (56:30):
No, we could be equals, we could be.
I kind of like this whole idea.
We could be heroes Like thewhole spectrum of who we are, as
you know, male, female.
Spectrum of who we are, as youknow, male, female.
We're just humans andeveryone's on a spectrum of
where we are with femininity andstrongness, because I know a
lot of strong women oh yeah, Ifeel like I'm very strong.
Sara Kaye (56:53):
Listen my nieces wrestle.
They can like.
Yeah right, I'm like they couldkill anybody.
I'm just kidding.
You don't kill people inwrestling anyways, because but
you could.
Joanna (57:01):
You could take them down .
Sara Kaye (57:02):
You could protect yourself.
Joanna (57:03):
You know what I mean.
Sara Kaye (57:05):
Well, I'm glad that you brought up the spectrum
thing, because that is a goodstopping point, because next
week we're going to have kind ofa special discussion of the
Kabbalah Kabbalah.
Joanna (57:18):
I'm so excited.
Which does?
Sara Kaye (57:19):
talk about that.
It does talk about thedifference between the binaries
of genders, yeah, which isconsidered kind of.
They write it in this, don'tkill us viewers, listeners.
Joanna (57:33):
Listeners, we will know a little more.
Sara Kaye (57:34):
But Elizabeth, I peeked ahead and she does say
it's kind of the occult book ofthe Bible.
Joanna (57:40):
Of the Old Testament, of the Old Testament, of the Old
Testament, old Testament yeah,so that's what we're going to be
talking about next week.
Sara Kaye (57:46):
I can't believe whoa.
It only took us like.
Joanna (57:49):
What episode are we on?
Sara Kaye (57:50):
I think we're on 16 or 17, but we had a couple bonus
episodes.
Joanna (57:54):
Oh yeah, I like the bonuses.
Oh, we're 16.
Sara Kaye (57:56):
It's so awesome, so let us know what's on your mind.
Yeah, what do you want us to?
Joanna (58:04):
delve into.
You know the things that maybewe spaced out on we never space.
It's always on purpose.
We are just like machines.
I mean we have no strain, wedon't strain.
Sara Kaye (58:17):
So you check our show notes in the episode
description for how to reach outthrough text or voicemail.
We've got infotainment and moreup on TikTok and YouTube.
Join us there if you likeawesome stuff.
Joanna (58:28):
Chat with us, get to know us, like, comment,
subscribe, share this podcastwith everyone you see this week.
And if you don't see anyone, goto the grocery store Right,
you'll see people there.
Right, talk to them at thecheckout.
We will write your name in thesky with invisible but potent
gratitude dust.
What a deal, oh my gosh.
(58:50):
So when you look up and you seeit, you're like oh, that's from
Sarah.
Sara Kaye (58:53):
Kay and Joanna V.
Joanna (58:54):
Exactly.
Sara Kaye (58:56):
So, yes, have a super week and we'll meet you for
some old school occult talk.
Joanna (59:01):
next episode Love you, see you later.
Bye.
Sara Kaye (59:31):
Bye, thank you.
Am I like good distance from the mic.
Joanna (00:02):
Yeah, let me know if I am too, because I talk loud, or
closer I'm relaxed.
Sara Kaye (00:07):
Okay.
Joanna (00:07):
Should I get closer, or am I just?
Sara Kaye (00:09):
loud.
Joanna (00:09):
Everyone's like Joanna, no, I am loud, joanna, go over
there.
I'm right here, I'm using myteacher voice.
I love it.
I only have one voice, and it'smine, and it's loud and you
gotta use it, sister.
Sara Kaye (00:27):
It's the podcast that Salty Serpent warned you about.
Joanna (00:30):
Welcome to Biting All the Apples, where two gals
discuss one radical book.
Sara Kaye (00:36):
The best-selling critical and comedic masterpiece
from 1895,.
Joanna (00:57):
The Women's Bible by Elizabeth Cady Stanton.
I'm Sarah Kay.
I'm Joanna V.
Sara Kaye (00:59):
We are back after a little summer break and boy are
we rested, calm, totallycollected, totally in the
perfect state to discuss thelast books in the Old Testament.
But that's mostly because theUS is doing a whole Old
Testament cosplay thing rightnow, minus the sackcloth and Old
English, of course.
You agree?
I?
Joanna (01:19):
agree, I agree, agreed, agreed, a thousand percent.
I agree, I agree, agreed,agreed, a thousand percent.
Sara Kaye (01:24):
So yeah, we are moving into the very last
morsels of the.
Old Testament with theVictorian feminists.
We're going to kick it off withJob, the most famous sad sack
in literary history.
Joanna (01:36):
Literally.
Did I say literary?
Literary and literary.
I know I was saying themtogether In book history.
Whatever, he's a sad sack andhe wears a sack, him together.
Sara Kaye (01:43):
In book history.
He's a sad sack and he wears asack, and I don't even know if
that's entirely true but I'mthrowing it out there.
Joanna (01:47):
I like it.
I feel like it fits with what Iread.
Sara Kaye (01:49):
Job.
You're a sorry ass.
Joanna (01:51):
He's very faithful.
Sara Kaye (01:55):
Then we're going to move Victorian feminist style
through Psalms, proverbs,ecclesiastes, isaiah, daniel,
micah and Malachi, malachi,malachi.
I like him Shooey.
That's a whole dinner partyright there, but don't worry
about time.
Stanton blazes through theselast books, it's true, cutting
to the parts where aging kingswrite about foolish and
(02:17):
contentious women.
True, so cool.
But before we begin, we aren'tfools, so we're going to cover
our buns with some disclaimers.
Joanna (02:26):
Biting All the Apples covers analysis of religious
texts.
Some listeners that arereligious out of the need for
the illusion of certainty mayfind our content offensive.
Biting All the Apples alsodiscusses historic texts and
feminist movements.
We recognize that individuals,groups and alternative movements
have been left out of themainstream history.
(02:46):
We will note that wheneverpossible, we are open to
additional information providedto us in the spirit of expanding
knowledge.
Sara Kaye (02:54):
That still happens.
I believe it happens it does?
Joanna (02:57):
I'm actually learning stuff every day, still, still.
Sara Kaye (03:01):
And.
Joanna (03:01):
I'm 50.
One Plus one.
Plus what?
50 plus one?
Yeah, still, and I'm 50.
One Plus one.
Sara Kaye (03:06):
Plus what?
50 plus one?
Yeah, yes, so alternativemovements and moments, it's true
, it's true, it's true.
Get to that.
It's been a minute since we'vebeen in the studio, I know.
Joanna (03:17):
And talking with our ladies, but I haven't totally
left the Bible behind.
I've got to be honest.
Sara Kaye (03:22):
Really that I haven't totally left the Bible behind.
Joanna (03:23):
I've got to be honest.
Really, that's what I was goingto ask you.
Yeah, I told you.
I've been falling into thesealgorithms of priests talking to
me, telling me about the Bible,the priest-erythms yeah, I mean
the priest algorithms.
I don't know, they're allEpiscopal.
Sara Kaye (03:38):
So I don't know if it's a sign Verified.
Joanna (03:40):
Verified Verified, verified.
Sara Kaye (03:42):
And some of them from like my old hometown.
Joanna (03:44):
That was the first one I saw something right, yeah, and
I was like El Cajon Cali, right,and I was like I'm going to
listen to this guy and I likedhim, you know, just talking
about the Bible.
And then all of a sudden I wasgetting all these priests and
I'm digging it.
They're talking about thethings we're talking about and
(04:06):
they're talking to theirparishioners about how we should
be living as Christians.
And if you're going to talkabout the Bible, you should be.
So that's been, I've been.
It's interesting, you should be.
What Cooler, meaner, nicer.
Thank you, you should be doingthe things like taking care of
immigrants.
Yeah, yeah, taking care of them, of immigrants, immigrants yeah
yeah, taking care of them,people different than you.
Sara Kaye (04:25):
Yeah, protecting those that are less than.
Are they so sure that's in theBible?
It's funny, I'm kidding.
Well, but the Episcopalians Iwas wondering.
Joanna (04:36):
I was like dang, maybe, when did Episcopalians start?
Man, because it sounds likeElizabeth probably would have
been one.
She's a Protestant, protestant,okay, Okay, remember I did that
.
I can't.
The whole Christian thing, thebranching off thing.
Did I send you that video?
Yeah, it's mind boggling, justthat endless sex.
Do you know why?
Sara Kaye (04:56):
I didn't watch that.
Why?
Because I was busy watchingApocalypse in the Tropics.
Oh gosh, oh gosh.
Joanna (05:03):
I heard that was not good, it's great.
Sara Kaye (05:06):
It's a fabulous documentary.
I highly recommend it and it'spertinent to this examination of
the hold that patriarchalreligion has over people in.
I don't know entire countrieslike Brazil and now the United
States, but follow the samepattern.
So the Apocalypse in theTropics is about the rise of
(05:30):
evangelicalism in Brazil.
And it went from like Using oursame Bible.
Joanna (05:37):
The same Bible.
Sara Kaye (05:39):
Maybe not the exact same their own?
Oh, I'm so curious.
Joanna (05:42):
I wonder if it's a King James version.
Sara Kaye (05:44):
In the documentary documentary they show the.
Oh you know what?
I should know the guy's name,but it's not bull and sorrow,
but the rich like evangelicalpreacher, and they say the same
stuff about family values havethose babies, yeah, and very,
you know, like gender conformityand bleaching off the system
(06:05):
and you know All those samethings, same things.
And watching that, I justrecommend it to everybody
because it fits.
It's like they're.
It's the exact script that theUnited States is running right
now.
I don't know.
Joanna (06:21):
So we got to change these things, we got to learn so
we can change, right, sure, welearn, we change, we stop the
progression of what Brazilalready did.
Sara Kaye (06:32):
I know, but sometimes I'm like do we have to change
or are we trying to make otherpeople change?
Joanna (06:38):
Yeah, I don't think we have to change.
Sara Kaye (06:39):
I mean, I think we're there.
Joanna (06:41):
I think we're there.
I mean, I'm not perfect, butboy.
Sara Kaye (06:44):
I do think.
Joanna (06:46):
Sarah Kay, we are on the right path.
We are, I feel it emotionallyand physically, please join our
club.
Sara Kaye (06:52):
It's called the Path to Perfection.
The.
Joanna (06:54):
Path to Perfection, we just truck on along.
Sara Kaye (06:58):
You know who else is on the Path to Perfection Job.
Joanna (07:02):
Job.
Oh my gosh.
Let me tell you about that guy.
Should we just get yeah, likewe can.
Sara Kaye (07:06):
You know, let's talk about Job.
We'll do.
We can talk more about theEpiscopalians and the change in
politics in Brazil later.
This is the Women's Bible.
Joanna (07:16):
Podcast.
That's right.
That's right, but we will chatwith you.
If you message us and give usyour input, I'm like we'll chat
with anybody seriously Seriously.
We'll even chat with thenaysayers.
Sara Kaye (07:30):
They're fun.
They're fun, we might shut youdown, but we'll listen.
It is crazy that we are almostat the end of the Old Testament,
but in the women's Bible, yeah,the Old Testament takes up, I'm
thinking, three quarters.
Joanna (07:47):
Yeah, I think so most of their rules and things were
coming from that Old Testament,that they were the old testy,
yeah, yeah, that they were goingto Congress to try and change
things.
They're like hold up.
Sara Kaye (07:54):
Wait a minute.
They're like.
Your foundational text isflawed, sirs.
Joanna (07:58):
Flawed and I want my own property.
So and I think it's justElizabeth that does the
responses Job- Well, yeah,actually, through the whole
thing, through the rest of this,she goes real fast.
Sara Kaye (08:10):
She's whipping through, let's whip through this
.
So the book of Job is one thatI do remember from childhood,
because that was another onethat didn't compute.
I'd hear the story.
I'd be like, yeah, is thissupposed to be inspiring?
That sounds horrible.
Joanna (08:23):
This is really depressing.
Yeah, so the guy Job, just he'sa great man, so, and I think
even in the Bible, because shesays it's an imaginary
conversation, yep, between Godand the devil, that's my first
note up top here.
Sara Kaye (08:37):
It just says Satan, yeah, satan.
I was like, where's he been.
Joanna (08:41):
It's our first Satan.
Is that the first time Satan's?
Maybe not, no, but I mean likewhere he's talking and he's like
a form of something First time.
Sara Kaye (08:48):
He's like a main character, a sentient being.
Joanna (08:51):
But yeah, so God's like oh, job's the best, he's the
best, he follows me, he doeseverything, and Satan's like
okay, go ahead.
Sara Kaye (09:04):
That's my favorite part about the whole thing.
He was like, okay, and I'm like, oh God, you're going to let
Satan.
Joanna (09:10):
You're the best guy You're going to let Satan just
like screw with him like a catin a mouse.
That's basically what he did,yeah.
Sara Kaye (09:17):
So that does make me think that God might be a man.
Actually, I'm going back oneverything.
Joanna (09:23):
Because I was like only it's not, Alanis.
Sara Kaye (09:25):
Morissette, because like only a dude would be like,
okay, we're going to challengeoff, yeah, where it's like
challenge, he could have justbeen like no Job's cool.
Joanna (09:35):
Yeah, no, if you don't believe me, satan, I don't care,
I'm God.
Yeah, but no, he was like goahead, test him.
Sara Kaye (09:45):
Yeah him, yeah, kill his kids.
Joanna (09:46):
He totally does and he had like all these farm animals,
kill them all.
Oh my gosh, see, if he stillloves you then.
And then he goes after the wifeand turns the wife on him.
Sara Kaye (09:52):
So that's dinah is that her name?
I'm looking here, she's she.
Joanna (09:56):
But you know, satan did it to her, made her, made her
turn.
Sara Kaye (10:00):
That's what.
So I had yeah, I had some stuffto say about that.
Well, Elizabeth talks a lotabout that how the wife, Job's
first wife, who I can't rememberthe name- of I think her name
was Dinah.
It is Dinah.
Job's wife's name is Dinah, soJob is like losing the farm.
Kids are getting killed.
Joanna (10:19):
Bad stuff is happening.
Her kids too, by the way, yeah.
Sara Kaye (10:21):
So this is what I got to say about that.
Two, by the way.
Yeah, this is what.
This is what I gotta say aboutthat.
So they and then like, and thenhis three friends like make fun
of him and they're just likegive up on this, god, dude.
And so dinah's saying that too,but he doesn't, he doesn't and
he doesn't.
Joanna (10:36):
He wears a sackcloth and he does all things and that,
and I know there's probablyother biblical reasoning for the
story of Job.
Sara Kaye (10:44):
But you know, what I see in this is a classic role
that women are still portrayed,even as plot devices.
So she's like the pushback, youknow?
Joanna (10:57):
Yeah, like she's supposed to.
Sara Kaye (10:58):
And they pick on her so that he ends up getting rid
of Dinah, because she was likeyou've got to stop believing,
you just need to, like you know,go over to Satan.
Joanna (11:04):
She, basically told him to kill himself.
Yeah, she's like.
You've got to stop believing.
Sara Kaye (11:05):
You just need to like she basically told him to kill
himself.
Yeah, she's like off yourself,and sure maybe that sounds bad,
but think about it.
She lost her kids, so you'rebad.
Women can't even own property.
She's relying on this dude forher food, shelter and safety
Good point, and he's liketotally messing up.
So is it unreasonable for Dinahto be like hey bud, he wasn't
(11:28):
messing up, though.
It was Satan.
But was Satan ever going tostop?
Joanna (11:32):
I don't know Was he, like you, have to denounce.
Sara Kaye (11:34):
God or whatever, but I'm just saying they're a little
harsh on Dinah so much, and sohe upgrades from her.
Joanna (11:42):
He loses her, he loses her and, yeah, he gets
everything.
Yeah, so Dinah might be thefirst nagging wife.
Sara Kaye (11:47):
You always see this in movies where the mobster you
know like Karen in Goodfellas.
They always turn on the guy,but it's like you know, so
Dinah's like Karen in Goodfellas.
That doesn't make sense.
Joanna (12:01):
Yeah, elizabeth says she bantered him for his constancy.
Douse thou still maintain thyconfidence in thy god, who has
punished thee?
Why dost thou be so obstinatein thy religion, which serves no
good to thee?
Why truckle, which means submitto a god who, so far from
(12:23):
rewarding thy services with thymarks of his favor, seems seems
to take pleasure in making theemiserable?
She's basically like thinkingwhat a lot of people would be
thinking if life was going thisshitty.
Sara Kaye (12:33):
Yeah.
Joanna (12:34):
Yeah, you're right.
I guess I agree with you.
Sara Kaye (12:36):
I mean, but I wouldn't urge him to.
Joanna (12:38):
I would be like man.
What's going on?
Why are we being attacked?
Sara Kaye (12:42):
Yeah, there you go, she's like you kill yourself.
Joanna (12:45):
Get away from me.
That's my problem with dying.
Sara Kaye (12:49):
I just envision her as like a practical gal, because
if she doesn't know how this isgoing to end, she's like I
don't know how this is going toend, but I know how you can end,
but anyway.
Joanna (12:57):
Oh my gosh, Poor Job.
Anyways, Job's amazing he neverloses his faith.
Sara Kaye (13:02):
He never loses his faith, even through all that,
Deserted by wife, by friends andseemingly by God, to Job's
faith wavered not.
Joanna (13:12):
Not an iota, not a little smidge.
Sara Kaye (13:14):
But since he proved his faith.
He got everything back he isrestored to health and nearly
all his earthly possessions arereturned fourfold.
So, yeah, he gets a wifeupgrade, and this is where
Elizabeth's like so, but afterthat, nothing more aside of his
first wife.
Joanna (13:32):
Yeah, she just they were like oh, you observed your
purpose.
Sara Kaye (13:35):
Yeah, this is like a plot device.
They're like we just needed youthere for something the main
character to bounce off of withsome, you know, adversarial
conditions.
Joanna (13:43):
We needed you throwing some more stones in his path.
Sara Kaye (13:45):
But his 10 children are restored.
Joanna (13:48):
Not the same children, they're just new.
I think that's funny, thatthey're just like and he just
got 10 more children.
It's not like they brought himback to life.
He got new ones with this newwife.
Sara Kaye (13:55):
Why did you say restored?
Oh, he just gets new ones withthe new wife yeah, that's how I
read it.
And then she, she says Godadorned them with great beauty.
Yeah, no woman being so fair,as they were daughters of Job.
Joanna (14:08):
So he really did upgrade the kids.
They must have not been goodlooking before.
Sara Kaye (14:12):
They were just like ugh.
Satan did them a favor.
Joanna (14:16):
Like what Trump would have kicked them right out.
Those kids got to go, man.
Sara Kaye (14:22):
Edit that out no kids in Trump.
I also had a note too, so it'sa reward.
So how can god?
It's a reward to make thembeautiful.
But yeah, in previous storieslike it was ruth.
Joanna (14:38):
Yeah, it's like you need to.
Sara Kaye (14:40):
You know beauty is not like don't have a beautiful
wife because that's notimportant and stuff.
Joanna (14:45):
And now this makes it where, like, hey, you can
upgrade.
Sara Kaye (14:49):
But beautiful daughters.
They're worth a lot of money,that's true, you can probably
get even more farm animals forthose.
Joanna (14:54):
Yeah, you know, this Bible is digging on the
good-looking, fair-faced virgins.
They're the best.
Sara Kaye (15:02):
They're the most valuable.
Joanna (15:06):
And so at the very end she's— oh, go ahead.
Sara Kaye (15:08):
I was just going to wrap up this with her last
sentence.
Joanna (15:10):
Oh, yeah, yeah, it's a good one.
I got it highlighted.
Stop, it Must be the slain, ohmy God, is it this one, whether
(15:31):
Dinah lived to cheer Job'sdeclining years or whether she
was replaced, like the rest ofthe things in his life, and
apparently that did not like hewasn't like, but I didn't miss
the other things.
God is still great, even thoughhe took all that.
Sara Kaye (15:44):
I don't know, I just think it's a weird parable.
And if they're married like,why is it just a test on Job?
Joanna (15:51):
Yeah, and why did she have to go?
Is he that great of a guy if hejust like got rid of her?
But I mean she did ask him tokill himself.
Sara Kaye (15:59):
I didn't see this, but Elizabeth wrote she's like
much more sympathy has beenexpressed by women for the wife
than for Job, so I guess we fellinto it too.
Joanna (16:07):
But I mean seriously though.
I mean she kind of got morescrewed, she didn't get any more
kids.
Sara Kaye (16:13):
Well, here's the thing she inadvertently was
tested too.
Joanna (16:17):
But she doesn't get a book named after her.
Sara Kaye (16:21):
She wasn't as important, her faith wasn't as
important.
So, when she was like, shewasn't as important, her faith
wasn't as important.
Joanna (16:26):
So when she was like she's a woman, she's a woman,
she's a woman, she's abackground character.
Yeah, crazy yeah crazy.
Sara Kaye (16:33):
Let's move on.
Joanna (16:34):
Yeah, well, that was Job .
I mean basically it's just likeit's two pages.
It's in there.
You have to be faithful againstall odds.
And um again, the woman isexpendable.
Sara Kaye (16:45):
You might get your fortune back fourfold yeah might
maybe, if you're tested it's agood thing.
So if you're ever curled up inthe fetal position, just keep on
trucking but I like the wholetest of satan was about belief,
so that is really again.
We just have yeah, keep, thatis the core, keep the faith.
Joanna (17:06):
Don't just keep the faith.
Don't question what's happening.
There's always a reason.
That's what Job is all about.
God's plan yeah, it's God'splan.
And just keep, keep, keep thatfaith, keep praying, keep doing
what you're doing and you'll getyour kids back.
Sara Kaye (17:22):
And you'll get.
You'll get your kids back andyou'll get your kids back but a
better wife and better kids.
Joanna (17:26):
Better kids, you get everything.
I bet the cows gave more milk.
I mean, come on.
Sara Kaye (17:33):
I wonder if there's a lost book of Dinah you know I
was thinking.
Joanna (17:37):
You know I hear about Satan here.
Does Satan have a book?
I want to know more I just wantto know more about this guy.
Sara Kaye (17:46):
I think there's a few books about him.
Joanna (17:48):
I mean, like biblical books, I want the book of Satan.
Oh my God, this is going to be.
I mean, just like they left itout, I just it's a real question
?
Sara Kaye (18:01):
No, it is a real question, it's a real question.
Joanna (18:03):
I know he's a fallen angel and ever since seeing
Dogma I was like you're right.
Sara Kaye (18:07):
Yes, we don't know, I don't know, we don't know.
So we have, and it really isthe.
It's like two pages on Job, andthen it flips right to the
books of Psalms, proverbs,ecclesiastes, and then it says
the Song of Solomon.
Joanna (18:22):
Song of Solomon, song of Solomon Ecclesiastes, the
Ecclesiastes, that's thepriesties, right, ecclesiastes.
This is all the.
They're like lessons, right?
They're lessons, proverbsbasically.
Sara Kaye (18:35):
And then this really is.
This is only like three pageshere.
She only picks like six sevenpsalms, but remember she's
selecting things that have to dowith Women and rights Women and
rights.
Joanna (18:49):
Yeah, it starts with psalms, and psalms is like she
just picks out like I'm surepsalms is.
I got to be honest, I did notgo flip through the Bible and
see how long psalms is, but shejust picked out that little
short piece.
Sara Kaye (19:02):
There's like a, there's a lot of them.
Okay, that's my biblicalscholar thing.
There's like a hundred youflipped.
Joanna (19:09):
Yeah, but she just focused on these supposed to be
written by David, the David andGoliath that we learned great
things about, like we thought hewas great, but he's very flawed
, Mm-hmm.
But she said many of the poemsare beautiful in sentiment and
celebrated as specimens ofliterature, as are some passages
(19:32):
in Job, but the general tone ispessimistic and that's what we
see later.
Sara Kaye (19:40):
All these kings.
This is what I learned withthese last chapters kings as
they get older they're cranky.
Joanna (19:47):
Well, it's funny.
You know they got everythingthey wanted.
You know all these wives, allthese things.
You would think that peoplewouldn't be so obsessed with
wealth.
You would think that whenyou're reading this, like the
Bible followers Right.
Sara Kaye (20:01):
And you would think that they would be more
comforted by their faith.
Rather than worldly things,worldly things, but the psalms
that she picks are about king'sdaughters and beauty right.
Joanna (20:15):
Yeah, yeah, she only picked a few.
Sara Kaye (20:18):
Yeah, nothing really stood out to me she goes.
Yet David, in the twilight ofhis days, seemed to dwell in the
shadows of despair in sackclothyeah, which I forgot Job was in
a sackcloth for a while, whenhe was having trouble, yeah.
Sackcloth love it.
Joanna (20:33):
Am I imagining like they're like literally wearing,
like they quit wearing clothesand they're just like I am just
devoutly praying, yeah.
Sara Kaye (20:41):
I just envision.
So people know that you're Likea green sack with like a slit
at the top.
Well, that's what.
Joanna (20:47):
I'm thinking my sorry sack that remember.
Sara Kaye (20:49):
I told you when I yeah, yeah, yeah.
Joanna (20:50):
But why, like is that for everybody else to know that
like I'm oh, actually that's myquestion.
I didn't look that up.
You know what I did want a deepdive on sackcloth.
I'm like now that I'm, now thatI can see it says in sackcloth
and ashes.
Sara Kaye (21:09):
So actually it might've just been a type of
fabric, but yeah, it's probablyjust like a little wrap.
Joanna (21:11):
I'm just curious but it's definitely like a pashmina,
but it's rough.
But it's something when you'refeeling bad and you wear it Like
if you're feeling, I mean theremust be.
I don't know, I'll tell younext week because I'll look.
I'll look at it.
Sara Kaye (21:24):
Okay, you better look up on that sackcloth.
I'm going to do my sackclothdive.
Joanna (21:28):
I'm going to deep dive in a sackcloth.
Maybe I'll find a picture of mein my sackcloth.
Sara Kaye (21:33):
What if we just wear sackcloth until the
administration changes?
Oh my gosh, I really thinkpeople Wait until I do my
research, and then maybe that.
Joanna (21:41):
Okay, that would cause a big it's going to cause a wave
and that'll change things.
We'll be change starters.
Sara Kaye (21:49):
Don't worry anybody, we got it handled we're going to
change the world withsackcloths.
Oh, I forgot, oh, it's like.
Oh, I was in the middle of aquote, so yet David, in the
twilight of his days, seemed todwell in the shadows of despair,
in sackcloth and ashes,repenting for his own sins and
bemoaning the evil tendency ofmen in general.
Joanna (22:11):
Himself.
He's bemoaning himself.
He's like why was I?
Sara Kaye (22:12):
such a whore.
He's like I had a moth in myhands when I killed the giant
and then I went and got greedyyeah.
I'm glad he feels bad about ithonestly, there is a passing
mention of the existence ofwomen as imaginary beings in the
Psalms.
The passing mention of theexistence of women as imaginary
beings in the Psalms, theProverbs and the Song of Solomon
, but not illustrated by anygrand personalities or
individual characters.
Joanna (22:31):
Yeah, they talk about women, no names.
Sara Kaye (22:34):
Right, and so he's mostly just writing about how
men are lame.
Joanna (22:40):
Like, women are great, men are lame.
Sara Kaye (22:42):
Well, not really.
That's not what he says, youknow, he is talking about the
evil tendencies of men.
Yeah, towards women which thatpart is fascinating because to
this day we still use the phraseboys will be boys.
I hate that phrase.
Joanna (22:59):
I know it's gross, it's like a universal, you know
unaccountability situation.
Yes, unaccountability, becauseI'm like what about girls?
Sara Kaye (23:07):
will be girls.
I mean, just imagine a worldwhere nobody said that and
everybody is just like heldaccountable.
Joanna (23:13):
Yeah for your actions as a human.
Can we just be?
Sara Kaye (23:15):
human.
If people have evil tendenciesby nature, then they should
probably not be in society.
Right or getting help in a—yeah, oh, that's nice Right,
that was nice of you, thank you.
You know it's later at nightI'm a little more.
Joanna (23:30):
Or we can help them.
I was going to give them anisland or something.
Oh, we're not going to helpthem get better.
No, we'll help, but maybethey're the Satan.
I don't know.
I don't Evil tendencies, but itdoes go back to Bathsheba,
(23:52):
which I think is funny, becauseone of the priests I follow, the
Episcopal priest, was talkingabout David the other day and he
did this cute little thing andhe was like he did this, this
and he raped and blah, blah,blah.
And he went in and he goes yeah, did you hear me?
Yeah, I said David raped her.
She never gave consent.
This is a priest that's like inaction right now.
Sara Kaye (24:11):
It has to be a West Coast.
I'm like that is a West Coast,yeah, it's a Cali guy.
Joanna (24:15):
Is it really?
Yeah, he's from Cali, but yeah.
Sara Kaye (24:18):
I'm like, oh God, but look at it.
Joanna (24:28):
David's treatment troubled him for this act to the
end of his days.
We are not told whetherBathsheba ever dropped a tear
over the sad fate of Uriah orsuffered any unbraidings of
conscience, so they don't talkabout her being taken advantage
of, which I find interesting,Because really, David sent Uriah
to be killed, you know, and hejust took her.
(24:50):
So it's like, oh well, I meanhe just, you know, he took care
of her because he killed thehusband.
But no, like he basically tookher and yeah, you're right, she
didn't give any, say like, yeah,I'll go with you.
Yeah, she had to go with himbecause her husband was killed
by him and he was a king.
Sara Kaye (25:05):
Yeah, I mean, what are you going to do?
Totally nonconsensual.
So what I had here as a note ishow, even though we're saying
that he is a dark passage andmaybe he regrets it, but we're
seeing these first examples ofwhat they now call spiritual
bypassing.
So instead of actually takinglike full responsibility and
(25:28):
examining feelings or writingabout his actual role in it.
He's just handing it over toGod, so he doesn't have to like
examine it too much and askingfor mercy.
So it's like when?
So have you heard that termspiritual bypassing.
Joanna (25:43):
I have not.
Sara Kaye (25:44):
So say you're like talking to a friend who's very
religious and you're like, oh,this is going on and trying to
express like you're worriedabout finding a job or your home
or things are going bad, andthey just say, well, just trust
in the Lord.
Oh, so it's a way of avoiding,like, any personal examination
and that is a repeat and stuffthat we see throughout.
(26:04):
You know, the internal life ishanded over.
Joanna (26:08):
Yeah, it's so hard.
You know, I've been thinkingabout this a lot lately because,
you know, when something badhappens to someone, you always
say, well, I'll pray for you,right?
Well, now that I've been doingthis and really thinking about
things, I'm like I pray to theuniverse and to all.
Like it's still a prayer, yeah,yeah.
(26:28):
So I've been reexamining myidea of what a prayer is,
because how do you send good,like you're sending good vibes?
It really is a prayer.
Sara Kaye (26:36):
So I've been really consciously being like, okay,
I'm calling on all my ancestorsand I am sending If you have
like little particles floatingaround, could you just go float
over Sarah Kay for a little bit?
That's right.
That's when people are like I'msending you whatever vibes I'm
thinking you know, send, and wejust equate prayer with
Christian prayers and that's not.
Joanna (26:57):
And it's not Because you can pray in a different way to
the universe.
That's kind of how I thinkWe've got to pray.
Pray to the universe, that'skind of how I think We've got to
pray.
Sara Kaye (27:05):
Pray, remember MC Hammer.
Joanna (27:06):
Yes, okay thank you, I do Thank you.
Sara Kaye (27:09):
So he's like he feels bad about it.
But he's not like examining hisbad feelings, he just wants God
to take those away, yeah, whenhe's like.
Have mercy upon me, oh God.
According to thy lovingkindness, according unto the
multitude of thy tender mercies,Blot out my transgressions.
Blot them out.
Actually, I might use that.
That's a good request.
Joanna (27:30):
Oh my gosh.
Sara Kaye (27:30):
Yes, I like it Blot out my transgressions, but I do
remember from being a kid Iremember kind of digging some of
the psalms.
Joanna (27:38):
Yeah, there were some good ones.
Yeah, there's some really goodones.
There's some good ones.
Sara Kaye (27:41):
They're not in here, of course they're not going to
be.
In the women's Bible there werea song.
Joanna (27:44):
There's a good song of psalms, the Song of Psalms.
Love it, I don't know.
I remember thinking psalms weregreat, these ones that she—.
Sara Kaye (27:53):
Psalms they're great.
I don't remember any of these.
Yeah, well, you know don't wantto say it, I'm like that's not.
Joanna (28:07):
I feel like they were more like happy songs.
They were, they're sure, thatthey shared in my childhood.
Sara Kaye (28:14):
Actually, I think the next section, the.
Joanna (28:16):
Proverbs are weird.
Sara Kaye (28:18):
What the selection here listeners Was so weird.
Joanna (28:22):
Yeah, and she bounces around, so she's picking some
good ones.
I'm not quite sure.
Sara Kaye (28:25):
The numbers.
That's right she picks.
I'm looking at here.
I'm just saying there'sprobably like 20 different ones.
Joanna (28:31):
There's got to be 8 million problems.
Sara Kaye (28:32):
They're all over the place, but they're the ones that
well, for example, what is this?
913, a foolish woman isclamorous, she is simple and
knoweth nothing.
Okay, thanks, Bible Withnothing.
Okay, thanks Bible.
Joanna (28:43):
Yeah, A gracious woman retaineth honor, and strong men
retain riches.
That's so gross, right, strongmen retain riches?
Sara Kaye (28:52):
Is that where the whole prosperity gospel is yeah.
Joanna (28:54):
I think so, oh yeah, this whole thing is just filled
with weird crap.
Sara Kaye (29:00):
I'm kidding.
I'm glad that Elizabeth shecould have just like.
This whole thing is filled withweird crap, but instead she the
Proverbs do go after the sonstoo.
Joanna (29:11):
A foolish son is a grief to his father and a bitterness
to her.
That bear him.
That would be his mother, Hello.
Sara Kaye (29:18):
I kind of I'm digging these because they remind me
you know of you know, likeBenjamin Franklin.
Oh, like early to bed, early torise, and this is like you know
, it is better to dwell in thewilderness than with a
contentious and angry woman.
Joanna (29:34):
I know that one that is hilarious that's not bad that's
hilarious, but it shouldn't bewoman that's the thing.
Sara Kaye (29:41):
I should be a human.
Joanna (29:44):
Yeah, it is better to dwell in the wilderness than
with a contentious and angryhuman.
Sara Kaye (29:47):
They could not get enough human Contentious right
and a continual dropping in avery rainy day and a contentious
women are alike.
Joanna (29:56):
Just like they just like beat down on you, Like it's
fine Just a nag, just a smalland then all of a sudden, you're
soaking wet.
Sara Kaye (30:02):
Oh my For an odious woman when she is married.
A handmaid that is heir to hermistress, I mean, what was?
Joanna (30:08):
that, what is an?
Sara Kaye (30:09):
odious woman For a certain.
Joanna (30:10):
That's why I want to know what odious is, because I
go to odor and I'm like she justdangled my mouth.
Sara Kaye (30:17):
You keep writing those.
I'm going to look it up.
Yeah, look it up.
Joanna (30:29):
I'm Um Odious.
Read me some more proverbs.
Who can find a virtuous womanfor her?
Sara Kaye (30:31):
price is far above rubies, like that's in the Bible
.
Yeah, actually, did you knowthere's a movie with Renee
Zellweger called A Price AboveRubies?
What yeah?
Joanna (30:39):
Oh my gosh, Wait, was she sold to somebody?
Sara Kaye (30:43):
No, but it is about she's.
I think she's like a oh my gosh, like an Orthodox Jewish woman,
okay, okay, and I don't knowthe whole plot, but it's about
her and her husband.
Joanna (30:56):
I mean there's definitely some, and it is
dramatic.
It's very dramatic.
Of course, renee Zellweger,come on.
Sara Kaye (31:02):
Oh my gosh odious.
How could we not know this?
Joanna (31:04):
What is this?
Sara Kaye (31:06):
Extremely unpleasant.
Oh, repulsive.
Joanna (31:09):
Oh my gosh.
Well, you know stinky yeah, butyeah, yeah.
Sara Kaye (31:15):
I was going with odor .
You're in the realm.
Joanna (31:17):
You're in the realm An odious woman when she is married
and a handmaid that is heir toher mistress what the I know?
And a handmaid that is heir toher mistress.
Sara Kaye (31:25):
What does that mean?
Joanna (31:26):
I know she has a handmaid, because I am watching
Handmaid's Tale now and I'm likethat stuff is weird.
Sara Kaye (31:32):
I love this Wait.
What she openeth her mouth withwisdom and in her tongue, is
the law of kindness.
Joanna (31:40):
See, those are nice.
Sara Kaye (31:41):
That's sweet, that's a nice one.
Joanna (31:43):
That's a nice one.
There are some nice ones.
She stretcheth out her hand tothe poor.
Yeah, cool, cool.
That's a nice one.
Sara Kaye (31:51):
I could go on reading these.
Joanna (31:52):
Now I'm like I'm really into this.
Well, they're interesting.
Sara Kaye (31:56):
But Elizabeth says right here with these pen
pictures of the foolish,contentious wife contrasted with
the more gracious woman.
Surely every reader of CommonSense will try to follow the
example of the latter.
It's like obvious.
She's like come on, Acomplaining woman is worse than
a leaky house.
Joanna (32:12):
This is so funny.
I have an experience, I know.
Sara Kaye (32:16):
Because with paint and putty you can stop the
dropping.
But how can one find the sourceof constant complaints?
Joanna (32:22):
All she does is complain .
I know, I just wish you were aleaky house.
I'd mud you up.
Sara Kaye (32:29):
Shut you up.
I like how she writes about thebiblical writers and this it's
a change in format in what she'stalking about, the epigrammatic
sentences.
It was the most ancient way ofteaching among the Greeks.
This kind of short, you knowsentences, like contentious
women's, like you know a drop ofrain on your head.
Joanna (32:47):
Yeah yeah, it's quick learning, you know.
Keep this with you, keep thisthought with you.
Sara Kaye (32:53):
So how come it switches?
Why did you start talking aboutSolomon?
Joanna (32:58):
Well, I think they all kind of Well this is what.
Sara Kaye (33:01):
Oh, she said, david, he just wrote that.
Solomon and stuff like thatDavid wrote the Psalms.
Joanna (33:06):
Yeah, and Solomon wrote the Proverbs I don't—Solomon
wrote.
I thought the rest of them,well, she's—yeah, she is it was
Solomon.
Sara Kaye (33:14):
Yeah, he wrote— Aren't you glad you're listening
to this podcast where we'relike?
One of these dudes wrote this.
It's right here.
Solomon's idea of a wise woman,a good mother, a prudent wife,
a saving housekeeper andsuccessful merchant will be
found in the foregoing text, yes, which every woman who reads
should have printed, framed andhung up at her family altar.
Joanna (33:33):
I think she's being cheeky.
There Is she.
I think she's being a lotcheeky as.
Sara Kaye (33:37):
Solomon had a thousand women in his household.
He had a great opportunity forthe study of the characteristics
of the sex, though one wouldnaturally suppose that wise
women, even in his day,preferred a larger sphere of
action than within his palacewalls.
Joanna (33:50):
She's so sassy.
Nice job, solomon, but theydidn't want in there.
Sara Kaye (33:54):
Yeah, trust me, he's like so Elizabeth is saying, yes
, he had a thousand wives, butnone of them could have been
that fun, interesting or cool,Because they were like or cool,
Because they were like heldhostage.
Yeah, she's like nobody coolwould be down with that.
Joanna (34:10):
I mean, I hope not.
So yeah, so this turns intoSolomon.
So he writes the Song ofSolomon when he's young.
Proverbs he wrote middle oflife, and then Ecclesiastes when
he was old.
Sara Kaye (34:25):
Okay, that's there you go.
And I like this.
He gave admirable rules forwisdom and virtue to all classes
, to men, to women and tochildren, but failed to practice
these lessons which he taught.
Joanna (34:37):
Yeah, isn't that the problem Rules?
Sara Kaye (34:39):
for thee, not for me.
Joanna (34:42):
Oh, I like that.
Yeah, that seems to be theproblem with the world.
Sara Kaye (34:46):
Very strong paragraphs there from Elizabeth,
very sassy I like it.
She's like oh yeah, print theseout, don't be odious.
Joanna (34:54):
Hang those up and live your life.
Yeah, please.
Sara Kaye (34:57):
Ecclesiastes.
Yes See, I'm telling you, theseare only like a page.
Joanna (35:01):
They're a page.
I I love it.
This is quick.
There must not have been a lotof contentiousness in there.
Sara Kaye (35:05):
Yeah, the book written in Solomon's old age.
So, ecclesiastes, do you havenotes on?
Joanna (35:09):
this.
I don't have really any notes.
Solomon just sounds like acrybaby.
Sara Kaye (35:16):
Yes, everything in life seems to have been
disappointing to him.
Joanna (35:20):
Yeah, I hate to bring it back, but it seems like the
leaders today that are ruiningthe world Very similar bring it
back, but it seems like theleaders today that are ruining
the world.
They are like this guy becausehe had everything.
That's kind of what I wassaying about David too.
These kings had everything, butit was disappointing.
I'm not getting anything.
I don't feel better.
I keep getting more and I don'tfeel better, so I'm just going
(35:42):
to keep getting more.
So wealth, position, learning,all earthly possessions and
acquirements he declares aliketo be vanity of vanities and
vexation of spirit.
Yet he had them all.
He's just like.
It's not that great.
I tried it.
Sara Kaye (35:57):
So the lesson is that's not that great, so maybe
you can find comfort in faith,right?
Is that what they're trying tosay?
Joanna (36:04):
Or are they just?
Sara Kaye (36:04):
like all kings, are miserable.
The Ecclesiastes I like thispart where it says Then I saw
that wisdom excelleth folly, asfar as light excelleth darkness.
The wise man's eyes are in hishead, but the fool walketh in
darkness, and I myself perceivedalso that one event happeneth
to them all.
Joanna (36:25):
I love the words in here you get old, you get wise.
Sara Kaye (36:27):
I love the words in here.
Joanna (36:29):
There are some nice ones .
I like when they say saith.
Sara Kaye (36:32):
It just adds that TH it does it really?
It hits different.
It does it's more powerful,it's more.
Joanna (36:38):
he said it's more powerful.
Sara Kaye (36:40):
You don't walk down the hallway, you walketh.
Joanna (36:43):
Walketh.
I like the wise man's eyes arein his head, but the fool, I'm
sorry.
Sara Kaye (36:50):
I thought that was the whole thing the wise man's
ears on the side of his head Onthe side of his face.
Joanna (36:57):
But the fool walketh in darkness, and I myself perceived
also that one event happeneththem all.
Sara Kaye (37:06):
That's what I'm saying.
Joanna (37:07):
Happeneth, yeah, happeneth.
So, whether you're wise orfoolish, the events still happen
.
Sara Kaye (37:13):
I like that.
Is that what that means?
I don't know.
As I'm reading this, I'm likethis is not good stuff to read
right nowadays, because it'slike—.
I know she's like wholecongregations of educated men
and women, day after day, yearafter year, confessing
themselves miserable sinners,with no evident improvement from
generation to generation andthose are the episcopals and I'm
telling you nowadays they arequite lovely.
Joanna (37:33):
I don't know the ones that I found on the talk um are
lovely like this is theepiscopalian.
Actually I'm following at leastthree Episcopal reverends.
Sara Kaye (37:45):
What if that's because TikTok wants you?
I think I know who you'retalking about.
Some of them are awesome.
Joanna (37:49):
It's on Reels and it's also.
I found them in differentplaces and then I went and
looked for some too.
And then I met one the othernight in real life Susan the
Episcopalian.
She was great.
Real life Susan theEpiscopalian.
She was great.
She didn't say anything aboutfaith we were there for John
Lewis, but she seemed lovely.
Sara Kaye (38:06):
Like a memory of that .
These are lovely people.
Joanna (38:08):
So, and then he says one they're saying Episcopalians
are just, you are always sinning, so how can you, how can you,
how can you?
Sara Kaye (38:17):
improve.
Right before that she said yeah, the Episcopalian service is
demoralizing in this.
Joanna (38:20):
Yeah.
Sara Kaye (38:21):
So is she Elizabeth?
You never know.
I wish I knew a little bit more.
I bet there's some scholarsthat could be like she was.
You know this section.
Joanna (38:29):
Yeah, I want to know.
I thought she was Protestant.
I told you there's so manybranches, we're never taking a
break again I'm like who'sElizabeth Cady Stanton?
Sara Kaye (38:44):
Stop, stanton, stop it, I'm just kidding.
So the last part.
She gives another thing Onewise man among a thousand have I
found, but a woman among allthose have I not found.
Joanna (38:49):
Yeah, because you're at a thousand, maybe, maybe because
you're taking them and the wisewomen hate your guts and
they're not going to tell youhow wise they are.
Sara Kaye (38:58):
Solomon, hey, Solomon focus Focus on one Come on
Elizabeth is like Solomon musthave had a sad experience in his
relations with women, such anopinion and grave reflection on
his own mother who was sodevoted to his success in the
world.
Joanna (39:13):
Yeah, she's the only reason he got the job, is it?
Sara Kaye (39:15):
Yeah, but for her ambition he would never have
been crowned king of Israel.
Joanna (39:19):
Yeah, Because her ambition he would never have
been crowned king of Israel.
Yeah, because David hadforgotten all about him.
Sara Kaye (39:22):
Let that be a lesson to you, oh my.
Joanna (39:25):
Lord, and then she doesn't?
Sara Kaye (39:27):
we're almost, we're moving on to the last, but she
does say to the public, thecommentators, that's her.
Joanna (39:32):
I would think the commentators vouchsafed the
opinion that there are more goodwomen than men.
It is very kind in some of thecommentators to give us a word
of praise now and then, but fromthe general tone of the learned
fabulist one would think thatthe Jezebels and JLs
predominated.
In fact, solomon says that hehas not found one woman in a
(39:55):
thousand, she's like.
But the commenters are likesaying there's all these good
women.
But he's there like eh, nonethat I took.
Sara Kaye (40:04):
So I'm like the common denominator dude, you
know what I mean.
Yeah, like figure it out, buddy.
Joanna (40:10):
Yeah, maybe it's you and you live so long you'd think in
your old age, I know, and thenI think it's funny.
So they did the old age, youngage.
Now she ends with Song ofSolomon, which he wrote when he
was young, a young man.
Sara Kaye (40:27):
I don't know why she did it that way and apparently
they don't think it should be inthe Bible at all.
I didn't know that, Maybe.
I wonder if that's changed.
Joanna (40:31):
The Jewish doctors.
Sara Kaye (40:32):
This is 130 years old , maybe I wonder if it's not in
there anymore.
Joanna (40:35):
I don't know, you know what Song of Solomon.
Sara Kaye (40:37):
If we had a podcast to talk about this stuff, I
would totally research thatbefore we talked about it.
You would like that?
I would look it up.
We'll check.
We'll get back to you.
Joanna (40:46):
But there's so many different versions of the Bible.
Sara Kaye (40:48):
Yeah.
Joanna (40:48):
There's a new one called the Kodachrome.
I don't think it's theKodachrome, it's something close
to that, the Kodachrome.
Sara Kaye (40:53):
They color-coded it.
Joanna (40:55):
The Jewish advise that their young people not read the
Book of Solomon until they were30.
Sara Kaye (41:03):
I was fascinated by that.
Joanna (41:04):
Why 30?
I'll tell you why Tell us why30 is when they were supposed to
be more susceptible tospiritual beauties and virtues
than the mere attractions offace and form.
Sara Kaye (41:20):
Which is a lie.
Joanna (41:21):
I know plenty of 30-year-olds that are still
attracted to face and form,which is a lie.
I know plenty of 30-year-oldsthat are still attracted to face
and form, but maybe you couldjust pair it out better.
You're not so eager.
You've had a little taste ofthe both.
Sara Kaye (41:31):
It was 30 years old back in 1800s oh yeah, you're
half dead, right, yeah, you'rehalf dead.
If not on your deathbed.
Joanna (41:38):
Yeah, so I thought that was interesting that they were
like ooh, this is sultry the.
Sara Kaye (41:42):
Song of Solomon.
Joanna (41:44):
Yeah, so Solomon winds up being a little bitter, but
the Song of Solomon is just likea love story.
Sara Kaye (41:51):
Well, that's wistful.
So we have, oh my gosh, buckleup.
This is like the last bits.
Are you ready?
I'm ready.
Are you ready?
The closing books of the lastbits.
Are you ready?
I'm ready.
Are you ready?
The closing books of the OldTestament.
Do a drum roll, thank you.
Joanna (42:07):
This is it.
Sara Kaye (42:08):
This is books of Isaiah and Daniel and Micah and
Malachi in four pages.
They're going to wrap us upquickly.
They are the closing books.
Make but little.
And this is why there's justscant words from Stanton on this
, she says because they make butlittle mention of women as
illustrating individualcharacteristics.
(42:29):
So sad.
The ideal woman is used more asa standard of comparison for
good and for evil they are andwe usually end up being evil.
Joanna (42:38):
So sad, wicked women.
Sara Kaye (42:40):
Oh, don't make me.
Joanna (42:41):
You know what I mean Wicked women.
You know what I'm saying yeah.
Sara Kaye (42:44):
The good women representing the elements of
success in building up thefamily, the tribe, the nation as
devout worshiper of the God ofIsrael.
The wicked women.
Woman the elements ofdestruction and the downfall of
great cities and nations.
Women.
Joanna (42:58):
As women.
Sara Kaye (42:59):
As woman, woman, I keep on.
It seems like that should bewomen, but whatever.
But no, I think.
As woman is chosen, oh, she'susing it, as in you can say as
man yeah.
As woman, is chosen to representthe extremes of human
conditions, she has no specialreason to complain.
Oh, snap, snap, snap.
You are just here to help usPair things out, pair things out
(43:22):
, pair things out.
How is that any different from2025?
It's not, sadly, okay.
Collective.
So, isaiah, yeah, I have barelyanything.
She doesn't write much.
I was like so, Isaiah, twowords.
Well, no, she picks out thisthing.
(43:43):
Oh, I do love this.
She doesn't write much.
I was like so, isaiah, twowords.
Well, no, she picks out thisthing where?
Joanna (43:46):
he's going off on what women are wearing, which is
great.
Actually, it's just like whyare you wearing all of this?
You shouldn't be tinklingaround.
You should just be praying, isthat?
Sara Kaye (43:55):
Yeah.
Joanna (43:56):
Yeah, that's exactly.
Sara Kaye (43:56):
But I love the word tinkling you like tinkling I do,
of course I do Tinkling around.
So, moreover, the Lord saith,because the daughters of Zion
are haughty and walk withstretched forth necks and wanton
eyes, walking and mincing asthey go and making a tinkling
with their feet.
Joanna (44:17):
It sounds like they're feeling themselves, like they're
just confident.
Yeah, they're just confident.
Yeah, they're wearing thattinkling and that is frowned
upon.
Sara Kaye (44:26):
Don't be showy, be humble, isn't that so?
Joanna (44:31):
And look at how much Tinkling makes me happy.
Sara Kaye (44:34):
To this day, women are policed in how they look
constantly.
Oh my God, Even young kids.
Joanna (44:40):
The whole stupid dress code thing in schools with the
dang tank tops, spaghetti strapsversus a dude wearing it Right?
I don't like give me a break.
Sara Kaye (44:53):
I know, well, you know, those shoulders create
lustful thoughts.
Oh, I can't, man, when I see ashoulder, ooh, we're going to
have to censor that.
Be sure to beep that one out.
Don't say shoulder or anklearound here.
So it is, and you're talkingabout.
They're wearing the ankle.
Joanna (45:09):
I just love this they say tinkling away.
Sara Kaye (45:12):
So, yeah, it's about stuff that they wear, and I'm
trying to see if Elizabethreally has much to say.
He does not like their style ofwalking which, from the
description, must have been muchlike the mincing gait of some
women today.
Joanna (45:23):
Yeah, she goes in and she's like, well, if this is
what we're living by, then webetter have a chat with all
these people wearing Easterbonnets and veils and all this
crap.
Sara Kaye (45:33):
They're coming to church.
Joanna (45:35):
Did they not read Isaiah ?
Sara Kaye (45:37):
I know you think tinkling ankles is bad.
Joanna (45:41):
Come take a look at these earrings and these
feathers.
Sara Kaye (45:45):
She says the mufflers .
I love mufflers, I do too themufflers, the bales, the glasses
and girdles.
Elizabeth, you got it.
If the prophets, instead of theFrench milliners and
dressmakers, could supervise thetoilets of our women, they
would dress in far better taste.
Joanna (46:01):
Apparently, she has no use for all of those frivalties
Frivolities, that's another wordin there.
Sara Kaye (46:07):
Do you think she's like mad that some people have
French dressmakers?
Joanna (46:11):
I don't know, but no, because I think she has them.
She's rich, remember I knowYou're right, you're right,
she's rich.
Sara Kaye (46:16):
Right.
She's rich she's got time towrite books about.
Joanna (46:20):
No I think she liked it.
But then when she had all thekids she just became a little
more dressed down yeah, you know.
Sara Kaye (46:27):
I just want you to know that my notes on this next
section for daniel actually sayszzz.
Am I missing something?
Joanna (46:39):
what does that mean?
Oh, because it was sleepy.
Yeah, I actually onlyhighlighted one thing.
Sara Kaye (46:44):
Well, tell me so well , tell us what it's about the
name of this prophet, and he wasDemiel.
I think it's funny.
Joanna (46:52):
First of all, who changed the names?
Why wouldn't they just keep itthe same?
His Chaldean name wasBethashazi that's cool, but now
he's Daniel Weird.
Betheshazi, that's cool, butnow he's Daniel Weird.
Sara Kaye (47:04):
Beth Shazi.
That's a great name.
Joanna (47:06):
I know that's way better than Daniel.
Sara Kaye (47:08):
Or Shazai, Okay anyways.
Joanna (47:09):
Whatever, there's so many.
Sara Kaye (47:11):
So Joseph calls him one of the greatest prophets.
So they talk about this king.
Joanna (47:16):
There's a guy that has something he gets this writing.
He can't read it, he can'tfigure it out.
All the wise men soothsayers,they can't read it.
And his queen says, hey,there's this dude named Daniel,
I bet he can read it.
He reads it and from what Itake from this, he translated it
.
But from what I get from whatElizabeth says is that he did a
(47:40):
pretty poor job.
But they were like, eh, he's anold guy, he's an old guy.
The interpretation ends up beingis thou are weighted in the
balance and art found in wanting.
Thy kingdom is divided andgiven to the Maidens and
Persians.
And he just said that's what itsaid.
(48:02):
So they clothed him in scarlet,made him like a sounds like a
cardinal or something, clothedhim in scarlet, put a chain of
gold about his neck and he wouldbe the third ruler because he
translated it.
Historians say that Cyrus wasat this time besieging the city
and they knew of this feast andtook the opportunity to make his
(48:22):
attack and slay the king, whileDaniel was getting all of this
pomp and circumstance fortranslating.
Sara Kaye (48:29):
Okay, and the women come in this story with the
queen entering to advise theking.
Okay, yeah, gotcha.
See, this is probably why I waslike snazzy because Elizabeth
had done such a great you knowsassy job the last time.
Joanna (48:45):
But this is, she kind of just doing a little more like
summary and reporting yeah,she's like, the interpretation
which Daniel gave of thesemystic characters was far from
easing the king from his fearsand, daniel being in years and
Belshazzar being still young, hetook greater liberty in dealing
plainly with him than he hadwith his father and he read the
(49:06):
warning as written on the wallThou hast been weighted in the
balance and found waiting.
And the king kept his promiseand still gave, even though he
didn't like it.
Like it didn't, the translationdidn't please the king because
it wasn't good, because itsounded like the Persians were
going to divide his kingdom.
Right, but he still made Davidthe dude Okay.
(49:28):
But, I don't see anythingrelated to women, so I'm not
quite sure why.
Yeah, or like Read a tab?
Sara Kaye (49:35):
It was the queen.
The only role that women had is.
The queen said let prophetDavid come and translate.
Okay, yeah, sweet, daniel, yeahSweet, all right, and that's
Daniel.
I bet it's you know again,maybe the entire book of Daniel
is great.
Joanna (49:51):
Maybe, but that was a snoozer, that was a snoozer as
far as the women's Bible goes.
Yeah, there was nothing goodfor women.
Sara Kaye (49:57):
And I don't know Like snappies, we may have to pull
up a whole mattress because youknow to rest for how long.
This thing on, micah.
Oh my gosh, micah.
It's like a paragraph, it's notTwo verses, yeah.
Joanna (50:09):
Micah, micah, micah, micah.
And this is about.
This is the women Dishonoringyour father and mother.
Yeah, and mother-in-law.
Sara Kaye (50:18):
So it's Micah 2, verse 9.
The women of my people have yecast out from their pleasant
houses.
From their children have yetaken away by glory forever.
Joanna (50:31):
Micah.
7.
The women of my people.
Did I say that?
I'm just saying like, just thewomen, come on.
Sara Kaye (50:36):
Micah, yeah, and the children are taken away.
There's so much familydestruction in the Bible.
Joanna (50:44):
There's like people destruction.
They're like, oh, we want tolive here, let's kill everybody
Right, including the babies,right, the wives and children
are completely entertained,which again still doing today.
Sara Kaye (50:53):
I know Still going on .
Joanna (50:55):
Right now we're doing it While we're chatting.
Yeah.
Sara Kaye (50:59):
So Elizabeth just says the only thing I had Well
here.
Joanna (51:03):
Israelites are reproved for their cruel treatment of
their own people, robbing widowsand selling children into
slavery.
Family life as well as publicaffairs seem to have become
unsettled.
So things are going wonky, butit makes sense because we're
going to the end of the.
If the writers of the Biblewere like trying to get the book
too sadded, you know, part two.
(51:24):
Things are falling apart.
The contempt and the violationof the laws of domestic duties
are a sad symptom of universalcorruption.
I think we're in universalcorruption right now, but it's
for a totally different reason.
It's definitely not the womenbeing contentious and haughty
Sad symptom.
(51:45):
Check that out.
But yeah, that's all she saysabout that.
Sara Kaye (51:47):
but Israelites are rebuked.
That's the part you miss whenshe just picks the verse,
because I'm like, are theycondoning that?
Joanna (51:55):
No, no, no, they're saying, they're rebuked.
Okay, they're rebuking, themRebuked.
Thank you.
Sara Kaye (51:59):
They should have titled that Rebuking, rebuking
the women and the last, oh myGod, the last.
Joanna (52:06):
Malachi.
Sara Kaye (52:08):
I like his name.
I do too, but it reminds me ofChildren of the Corn, I know.
Joanna (52:11):
You can never name your kid Malachi.
Okay, malachi is, it's justabout marrying strange women,
which really means the strangewoman just means they are a
different religion, right?
Sara Kaye (52:22):
That's it.
But it was national law thatforbid them to marry strange
women.
Joanna (52:46):
And then so she goes on to say these Israelites were
always violating the nationallaw, which forb historians with
the intermarriage of the sons ofGod with the daughters of men,
meaning, I suppose, those of thetribes who had a different
religion.
So it's so funny because theykept picking those women.
It's not like they stuck to thelaw.
Sara Kaye (52:58):
Who's she quoting here where she says he that
marries a heathen woman is as ifhe made himself son-in-law to
the law?
Who's she quoting here whereshe says he that marries a
heathen woman is as if he madehimself son-in-law to an idol?
Joanna (53:07):
It must be quotes from the Bible, I would assume.
Sara Kaye (53:09):
Or she's done this before too where she'll quote
idioms or sayings of that time.
Joanna (53:15):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it could be one of those.
Or like a bird in the hand Isworth two in the bush.
Sara Kaye (53:22):
Remember she's like a diamond shining, a super shiny.
I don't know what she said.
I don't think it was that one.
But she said they put away thewives of their own nation and,
as was the fashion at one time,married those of other nations.
And then I should just note incase we have people super
following along like Bible style, she did Malachi 2, verse 11,
(53:44):
14, and 15.
So, really, she's just lookingat that part which is about
marrying strange women, Strangegods, but it does.
I like that it's ending up withthis theme, which is really
about the whole Old Testament,though, is about how women are
used to illustrate points andthey're not used as people
Charming women.
Thank you.
Joanna (54:04):
Of the Hittites is that Hittites and the Midianites.
Sara Kaye (54:08):
Sure.
Joanna (54:08):
With their novel dress, manners and conversation
attracted the men of Israel.
I mean, how could they helpthemselves?
They could not resist thetemptation when the strongest
man and the wisest one are alikeled captive.
There is no significance incalling women the weaker sex I
love.
Sara Kaye (54:29):
Elizabeth, I know she's like there's no
significance in that.
She's like when the strongestman and the wisest one are led
astray.
Yeah, how is it our fault?
Exactly how is it our fault,though few women appear in the
closing tragedies of the OldTestament, yet the
idiosyncrasies of the sex areconstantly used to point a moral
(54:50):
or to condemn a sin.
Joanna (54:52):
Yeah, point to a moral or condemn a sin, that's the
only thing we're used for.
And no responsibility on theman.
It's the women led them astray.
Nope, they were looking toogood, yep, and couldn't help
themselves.
You know which it's reallytying in today?
Because, you know, obviously wehave a lot going on in the news
with women being not respected,even children, girls, all these
(55:18):
girls that were in the Epsteinfiles, right, totally not even
referred to as children, butthey're just called young women,
even though they're 12 and 13.
And I'm just like so grossedout that this shit is still
going on.
Sara Kaye (55:53):
This is exactly what I was going to bring up as well
is that in current culture, weonly hear the names, or just
even you know, not names of,like the Epstein victims brought
up to make a political point,just like the woman and I hate
that I can't remember her nameright now, but the woman- that
the brutal crime happened.
That was done by an illegal now, but the woman that the brutal
crime happened, that was done byan illegal.
Joanna (56:07):
oh, so they'll bring up these women's names, but only to
illustrate.
Sara Kaye (56:09):
Yeah a point, not to like look at the bigger problem,
right, but rather just toprogress their party for exactly
but seeing that was kind of thewhole playbook from 2,000 years
ago and it's still working,though it's probably so hard to
understand, like it, doesn't?
We don't have to think likethat, you know.
Joanna (56:30):
No, we could be equals, we could be.
I kind of like this whole idea.
We could be heroes Like thewhole spectrum of who we are, as
you know, male, female.
Spectrum of who we are, as youknow, male, female.
We're just humans andeveryone's on a spectrum of
where we are with femininity andstrongness, because I know a
lot of strong women oh yeah, Ifeel like I'm very strong.
Sara Kaye (56:53):
Listen my nieces wrestle.
They can like.
Yeah right, I'm like they couldkill anybody.
I'm just kidding.
You don't kill people inwrestling anyways, because but
you could.
Joanna (57:01):
You could take them down .
Sara Kaye (57:02):
You could protect yourself.
Joanna (57:03):
You know what I mean.
Sara Kaye (57:05):
Well, I'm glad that you brought up the spectrum
thing, because that is a goodstopping point, because next
week we're going to have kind ofa special discussion of the
Kabbalah Kabbalah.
Joanna (57:18):
I'm so excited.
Which does?
Sara Kaye (57:19):
talk about that.
It does talk about thedifference between the binaries
of genders, yeah, which isconsidered kind of.
They write it in this, don'tkill us viewers, listeners.
Joanna (57:33):
Listeners, we will know a little more.
Sara Kaye (57:34):
But Elizabeth, I peeked ahead and she does say
it's kind of the occult book ofthe Bible.
Joanna (57:40):
Of the Old Testament, of the Old Testament, of the Old
Testament, old Testament yeah,so that's what we're going to be
talking about next week.
Sara Kaye (57:46):
I can't believe whoa.
It only took us like.
Joanna (57:49):
What episode are we on?
Sara Kaye (57:50):
I think we're on 16 or 17, but we had a couple bonus
episodes.
Joanna (57:54):
Oh yeah, I like the bonuses.
Oh, we're 16.
Sara Kaye (57:56):
It's so awesome, so let us know what's on your mind.
Yeah, what do you want us to?
Joanna (58:04):
delve into.
You know the things that maybewe spaced out on we never space.
It's always on purpose.
We are just like machines.
I mean we have no strain, wedon't strain.
Sara Kaye (58:17):
So you check our show notes in the episode
description for how to reach outthrough text or voicemail.
We've got infotainment and moreup on TikTok and YouTube.
Join us there if you likeawesome stuff.
Joanna (58:28):
Chat with us, get to know us, like, comment,
subscribe, share this podcastwith everyone you see this week.
And if you don't see anyone, goto the grocery store Right,
you'll see people there.
Right, talk to them at thecheckout.
We will write your name in thesky with invisible but potent
gratitude dust.
What a deal, oh my gosh.
(58:50):
So when you look up and you seeit, you're like oh, that's from
Sarah.
Sara Kaye (58:53):
Kay and Joanna V.
Joanna (58:54):
Exactly.
Sara Kaye (58:56):
So, yes, have a super week and we'll meet you for
some old school occult talk.
Joanna (59:01):
next episode Love you, see you later.
Bye.
Sara Kaye (59:31):
Bye, thank you.
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