August 1, 2025 • 44 mins
What if everything you thought you knew about biblical gender roles was based on deliberate mistranslations? We dive deep into a brilliant 1895 feminist analysis that exposes how religious authorities systematically erased the divine feminine from scripture. Frances Ellen Burr, founder of Connecticut's first Women's Suffrage Association, boldly declared "the Bible is an occult book" while revealing how the ancient Kabbalah actually teaches perfect gender equality in the divine nature. Her commentary in Elizabeth Cady Stanton's groundbreaking Woman's Bible demonstrates that Hebrew words like "Elohim" are actually feminine in origin, and that biblical translators deliberately changed feminine references to masculine ones to support patriarchal power structures.
SPECIAL EPISODE NOTE: Episode produced in Bob's Basement Studio with Cindy Clawpurrr the feline mastermind, as animal producer. You may hear her - if you are so blessed.
We explore how Victorian feminists used higher criticism methodology to apply scientific rigor to religious texts, discovering that mystical traditions like the Kabbalah taught that humans were originally androgynous beings and that spiritual wholeness requires both masculine and feminine principles in perfect balance. These 19th-century scholars, supported by religious authorities including Westminster Abbey's Canon Farrar, believed they were witnessing the dawn of a new spiritual awakening that would restore women to their rightful place as equal spiritual authorities.
The parallels between Victorian feminist hopes and our current cultural moment are sobering. These pioneering women believed that education and rational analysis would inevitably lead to gender equality and spiritual enlightenment, yet we're still fighting many of the same battles 130 years later. Their work reminds us that the mystical traditions have always recognized what patriarchal institutions tried to hide: that women hold profound spiritual power and that true divinity encompasses both masculine and feminine aspects. Ready to question everything you thought you knew about religion and gender? Subscribe for more revelations that challenge conventional wisdom and support the independent media exposing hidden histories.
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Recorded at Troubadour Studios in Lansing, MI
Audio Engineer Corey DeRushia
Edited by Rie Daisies at Nighttime Girlfriend Studio
Music: ‘Shifting pt. 2 (instrumental)’ by Rie Daisies
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
literally everything.
I'm just like is she going tobe okay?
I'm like she's a fucking cat.
We used to we had when I was akid.
We had cats.
They like went outside all day,I know, and I wasn't.
I was fine with that.
Yeah, couple didn't come back.
Yeah, couple didn't come back.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
My dad would be like maybe the corn bomb, like that
would be the worst thing thatcould happen to your cat or
they'd be like maybe they gotkilled by a raccoon and you're
like that's not comforting,that's like why don't you lie to
me and say they left and joineda cabal?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
It's the podcast that scheming serpent warned you
about.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Welcome to Biting All the Apples, where two gals
discuss one radical book.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
The best-selling critical and comedic masterpiece
from 1895, the Woman's Bible byElizabeth Cady Stanton and
Friends.
I'm Sarah Kay and I'm Joanna Vand hello, beautiful listeners,
(01:08):
we're we're.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
We're, we are, we are , we're.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So glad to have you here with us today for some more
modern takes on the Victorianfeminist.
Scorching hot takes on theBible Sizzling, so scorching it
is.
We wrapped up analysis on theOld Testament last week and now
we're smack dab in thein-between Limbo, the bardo, the
(01:33):
liminal space between the Oldand New Testaments.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Ooh, yeah, here we are Just dancing in the occult.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
And it's right where Stanton places a special
commentary section on theKabbalah.
Kabbalah, An esoteric pause, ifyou will, to highlight this
Jewish mystical tradition thatexplores the nature of God, the
universe and humanity's placewithin it.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, that's not a big order or anything it's just
giant, just a real small topictonight.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
It's place within it.
Yeah, that's not a big order,or anything, it's just giant.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Just a real small topic tonight it's the biggest
one.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
It likely won't surprise you to hear that the
Kabbalah allows for a much moreinteresting exploration of the
role of women.
The commentary on the Kabbalahis written by the American
suffragist and writer FrancisEllen Burr.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
F-E-B.
We talked about her last week alittle bit, just because.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I wanted to know her initials, Feb.
The first line in hercommentary.
The first line makes the claimthat the Bible is an occult book
and if that doesn't pique yourinterest, you might be listening
to the wrong podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That's right, I was like whoa, that's right up my
alley Bold statement.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
We'll get into all of it Burr's commentary, all of
our rabbit holes and do a quickcheck-in to see how the term
occult has changed meaning andusage over the years.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Right after we remind you all of our friendly
disclaimers Kind of have thedisclaimers Biting All the
Apples.
Covers analysis of religioustexts.
Some listeners that arereligious out of the need for
the illusion of certainty mayfind the content offensive.
Biting All the Apples alsodiscusses historic texts and
feminist movements.
We recognize that individuals,groups and alternative movements
(03:18):
have been left out of themainstream history.
We will note that wheneverpossible, we are open to
additional information providedto us in the spirit of expanding
knowledge.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
As we're doing, occult stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
It's all around us.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I know we're summoning the spirits.
Bring them in Of knowledge,bring them in.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I love spirits Pulling it from the air.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I feel it Pulling it from the air Getting all that.
But yeah, did you all noticethat I tried very hard to say
Kabbalah?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yes, it was not how I would have said it.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So that's what I learned when we were looking,
when we, together looking intomy stuff, I saw some video, some
guy from the Great Courses, andhe's like actually it's
Kabbalah, kabbalah, but theAmericanized version is Kabbalah
, kabbalah, but the Americanizedversion is Kabbalah.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Kabbalah.
Yep, I think you can.
You know what and say peoplesay Kabbalah.
Yeah, they were switching backand forth.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
People use whatever, but Kabbalah is the actual thing
, but it's rabbi approved eitherway.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, if you say it the other way.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
So for the purposes of this episode we can
interchange, yeah, so I won'thave to pause every time where
I'm like I'm about to say it,I'm about to say it correctly,
yeah, because people know iteither way.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, yeah.
So we're getting right into theoccult I know, which you know
we both love, kind of that.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
That's why we're here .
That's like what we love.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
That's why we're here .
Yeah, no, I read it and then Iwas like, ooh, I need to know
more, because I actually I don'tknow if I ever thought about
the Kabbalah, have you I?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
mean I just never have, but in the way that most
people that lived through theearly 2000s from Ashton Kutcher
and Madonna.
Do you remember?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
No.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, you probably were like living.
I don't know, but for a whileshe was like really Madonna was
really into it and like AshtonKutcher was seen like wearing
all white.
You know, in like Peoplemagazine.
They're like it's a trend inHollywood.
Oh really, the Kabbalah Centerin Los Angeles that started
(05:24):
which at the time.
I was like, okay, you know richpeople doing their thing.
When I was learning more aboutit through reading this, the
commentary and then some of thepodcasts and listening to some
lectures, I was like, oh, thatis so tacky.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
They're like I want to get into that, but this is
why.
But it is super interesting,it's crazy interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I actually really liked what I learned about it
Same.
It also shows that it'ssomething that's like open to
total interpretation, becausesome of the when I was looking
into it, there were somepodcasts that were like using
the Kabbalah to increase wealthyou know like using it for real
estate and you're like OK.
Yeah yeah, apparently a freeforfor-all, because it isn't
(06:06):
actually a religion.
It's a way of explaining thedifferent phases and components
of the life that we can see andwhat is unseen.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I like to think of it as kind of like your mind, and
so it goes in layers.
The Kabbalah, it's like a treeof life.
So there's, you know you canhave nothingness.
Then a little bit of something,then an idea, and then the idea
builds and, honestly, isn'tthat actually what we're doing
Exactly?
And I was like this is like.
(06:37):
This makes sense to me.
Yes, and it was written in likeonly 200 BC.
200 BC like only 200 yearsbefore Christ.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
The other explanation that I really like was this one
rabbi was on there talkingabout it, and this is.
It was a video titled like Doyou have to Be 40 Years Old to
Listen?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Oh yeah, To Read the Kabbalah yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And, but they explained it as it is.
Think of it like how there'sdark matter in the universe.
So the Kabbalah is the darkmatter of religion.
Oh, you know, it's the thingsthat are unseen.
Oh yeah, but it's still a hugeforce, so it is possible that's
the thing that's hard to getpast, so like you can't see it.
(07:19):
Yeah, it's a thing that's hardto connect because you're like
it's not like if people follow,you know the Kabbalah, they
aren't Christian or they aren'tJewish.
It can be a supplementary wayof still practicing those
religions.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I would love to see how it's written, though, so
I've read about it, but, like, Iwould love to see how it reads.
You know like the Bible can beread literary.
Well, it has to be read inHebrew, I believe, yeah, which
is a whole thing I learned aboutthe.
Hebrew.
From what I heard, that won'tbe easy.
Hebrew is very difficult.
They said it's close to achemical language.
(07:54):
Yeah so, and all the letterscorrespond in numbers.
And so you can add things up.
It's interesting, it is veryinteresting, it's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
And, of course, this podcast is to talk about the
responses in the Women's Bible.
But we couldn't help but gocheck all this stuff out.
I was even stuck at the first,her first sentence, which says
the bible is an occult book, anda remarkable one when I say
first I'm talking about our galfrancis, francis feb.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Did we, did I say francis, did you?
Yeah, did you learn anythingabout her?
Speaker 1 (08:28):
but that's okay.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So before that, so occult okay so she's the only
one that talks.
This is her entire.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
She's the only one that talks.
This is her entire.
She's the only one that writesabout.
She writes this wholecommentary on the Kabbalah and
when I first saw that wordoccult, it reminded me I'm like
it's so fun being raisedespecially like coming of age in
the 90s, you know, with likesatanic panic.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Oh, yeah, yeah and all that, and Ozzy just died.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I know Rest in peace, rest in rock, rest in rock that
when I hear a cult I justimmediately go to like the
negative and devil.
And even though I know it's not, but just your initial feeling
of it, and I'm like I wonder,like what that meant back then.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Oh, did you look it up?
Yeah, of course I did, I loveit.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
I'm going to slam around here, but it means the
same.
I'm like let me just check myfiles.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Hey, you got all those notes.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I know, I want to know.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Has it changed?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
The original use of it was to study things that were
unseen, or the spiritual realm,things that are unseen, which,
by itself saying occult, there'snot like negative connotations
to that.
It's just more like.
That's what it is Like.
An occultist is somebody thatis interested in the spiritual
world and the unseen and some ofthe stuff that I found I'm like
.
Some of the stuff I foundonline is that there was a
(09:44):
change, like in the nineties,for different uses of it 1890s,
1990s.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
As soon as I said 90s , I was like girl, you better
specify In the 1990s.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
But it has changed over time in what people
associate with it.
You know negative connotationsand stuff.
Cindy, the producer cat, ishere.
She might have felt somespirits.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, she was like we talking about the occult, bring
me in, sister, Bring me in,she's like bring me in.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
So occultism, hidden or supernatural knowledge and
powers.
Occultism in the 1800s reallyemphasized esoteric knowledge
and remember in the late 1800sthere was all that spiritualism.
And in the spiritualism.
Part of that was meant.
That's where they had all thestances and were meant to
communicate with spirits.
(10:34):
Yeah, yeah, so occultism is theumbrella, spiritualism is just
like a section of that.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
So basically, the unseen as it pertains to
Victorian times.
The unseen.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yes, the unseen.
Okay, but occult is from theLatin word occultus, and it
means clandestine, hidden,secret, knowledge of the hidden.
So that's what occult means andthat's yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So the people that could read this?
That's why they say it'sesoteric language.
Only certain people can read itand interpret it, which I find
you know anything like that.
I'm like why would only certainpeople?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
be able to read that, because that means that you can
always have somebody in power.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, I don't like that.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
The person with the knowledge has the power.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
I'm really ready for the kumbaya part.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I know what happened to kumbaya, I know, but by that
definition, frances, she's right, the Bible isn't a cult book.
Yeah, yeah, it just seemsshocking to say now, but it's
true, but actually the more Ithink about it.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
So Moses on the mountain obviously was doing all
sorts of magic stuff.
Fire all this stuff.
He got the tablets of the TenCommandments.
This he also got, but nothingwritten down.
It was all oral.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Right, that's the part that's fascinating.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Right, right, right.
And who told him?
Who told him Was?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
it a Joanna's making a hand motion from the sky.
Was it To her temple.
Yes, from the sky to her temple.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Where did it come the universe?
So yeah, it was handed downjust orally.
There was nothing written.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
So why were the rules written and why was the
Kabbalah not written?
And this is where we'restarting to see the division
between you know religion, whichis more like controlled rules,
rules and ways to live, and thenspirituality.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
So well, I really think the Kabbalah is the way to
go after I'm like you're likewe should all just start doing
the Kabbalah.
I know I mean, it made sense tome.
It even talked about the angelsbeing part of you.
We are it, and this planetwe're on is the chosen place.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
In this part of the tree.
Yeah, I'll try to put a picture, try.
I will put a link to the treethat they show for the top of it
, because it builds it's layersof spirituality?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I guess yeah, From the unknown to the known.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
The fact that it was, that it's set up in a tree
reminded me.
And we're not even getting tothe women's Bible thing yet but
it reminded me of.
Are you familiar with the Norsemythology?
I mean a little bit.
That whole thing is based on atree.
Oh the tree of it's like a treeof life.
I'm bad at pronouncing thisstuff.
(13:17):
It's Yggdrasil.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Mm.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I'm not saying it, it's Y-G-G-Yggdrasil.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Well, if it's Hebrew, you're not going to be able to.
Well, this is Nordic, this islike Norse mythology.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Okay, but isn't that crazy that, like Norse mythology
involves like a huge tree andan eagle, and then there is a
squirrel, a magical squirrelthat runs between the levels of
the tree and the levels of thistree.
(13:55):
In Norse mythology is about thedifferent layers of perception
and spirituality and life on theplanet.
And I'm like that's kind of itall.
There's so many repeat storiesor repeating narrative motifs.
Yes, I love that and, just likeyou had mentioned, with the
tarot, yeah, yeah, the tarot,the tarot.
I didn't realize the symbols ontarot cards correspond to the
Kabbalah, like the the knives,the knives and um the wands,
(14:16):
yeah so there's 10 of each card.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Is that what they said?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
and and each of the cards does correspond to the see
that when I heard them, like Ineed to double check that.
But I've I've always lovedtarot for that reason, because
it there.
It ties into so many differentreligious traditions that it
just shows you that allreligions have a birth, sin,
(14:40):
redemption, you know a rebirthstory, and that's the major
arcana of the tarot.
That's what if you walk throughit?
You?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
know you start with the fool.
Now, you've studied thatbecause you do that.
You do so how long have youbeen?
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Oh, my gosh, I've had .
I had a tarot, my first tarotdeck, I think I had like 19.
Okay, and now that I'm 25.
For a good long while.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
And I liked it, for I mean, I do, I like the woo-woo
stuff a bit, but even more forthat like storytelling.
And then also you know oh gosh,I'm losing my words what is it?
You know, almost like narrativetherapy.
There's just so many repeatstories that people need to hear
and retell to like comfort Ilove that.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah, and to explain our existence, I'm telling you
we do need a lot of comfort.
I've learned that.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yes, it's very much the other thing.
I was thinking of you when youbrought the tarot and the tarot
again.
The major arcana is the hero'sjourney.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Oh, it like absolutely is if you go through
it, it follows that.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
You know, joseph campbell, I know, I know they
all, it all goes together.
That's the background of thekabbalah.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
But my favorite thing about this whole section was
that men and women in theKabbalah it's more non-binary
right.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
That's the part that's in the women's Bible.
For a reason, yes.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, and you know we talked about that in Genesis
way back in our like first, youknow, second episode.
This really comes into men andwomen are one, equal and that
really humans, everybody's both,everybody's both, everybody has
both qualities.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yes, In fact I'm sure we have highlighted a lot.
So now we're actually to thepart in the woman's Bible about.
Francis and I told you I lookedher up.
She's from Connecticut.
She started the first Women'sSuffrage Association in
Connecticut.
She was also one of the fewespecially of the Women's Bible
contributors that actually livedlong enough to see women's
suffrage.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Oh, thank goodness, some of them did.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
And she was a writer and organizer.
It says here you know, writer,speaker, reporter, stenographer,
journalist, activist, francesEllen Burr has done more to
popularize.
I'm having a hard time talking.
Popularize, that's a hard word.
Popular Okay, I want to bepopular.
Did you know thatneurodivergent people often slur
their words?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Because they talk so dang fast.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
That's why I'm like I need to slow down.
We're not in a race, yeah, butI am excited to tell you this
and then we can get to talkingabout it another time.
So Frances Ellen Burr has donemore to popularize the question
of women's suffrage than anyoneelse in the state of Connecticut
.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Isn't that awesome, it's just totally cool.
You know what I'm interested inwith all these ladies.
I want I do.
I know I've mentioned thisbefore, but I would love to hear
from their ancestors Like, whatdid the women in their families
aspire?
Where did they end up?
Can we do that?
As like, a as like.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
And do any of you out there know Any ancestors?
Does anybody know anything?
So yeah, frances, she's awesome.
We hadn't seen any of herwriting before this.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
No, and this must be her jam.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
I did Well, and that's what I was trying to find
out.
I'm like why is this her jam?
Couldn't find anything specific, so if anybody knows, let me
know why is this her?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
thing?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, but also, that was just the tradition.
I'm sure a lot of these women'srights activists were into, you
know, taking down, taking downthe Bible not taking down the
Bible this is the other termthat I learned is there was a
trend in this type of criticism,which was called specifically
higher criticism.
Higher criticism it's actuallylike what they?
(18:30):
That was the methodology whenthey went back to look at the
Bible.
So in the 19th century it wasmore like they were looking at
it historically and through theeyes of how it was written at
that time, instead of just likewhatever it was, God wrote it.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
So there must have been a split there in the
religions.
Yes, Because, like I told you,the Episcopal people seem to be
right on the same track as theseladies, Like they went.
Their allegory, their stories.
There's lessons, but if you'regetting anything besides like we
need to help the poor and dothen you're not following
(19:04):
anything in any version.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
You're like you're not.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Yeah, yeah yeah, and it's more and more.
I see more and more of theseEpiscopalians coming out and
just saying no, please stop.
And even Catholics are comingout and speaking out.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, with the help from the new pope, who is, you
know, a woke Marxist pope, aswoke as he can be for a religion
that doesn't allow women inleadership.
But you know, anyways.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
But these ladies I mean they were in the forefront,
these, out of all the women inthe United States, these women
were well known, they were goingto the Capitol, they were
speaking out, they were sayingwe know that religion is in our
laws, we know that and that'sfine.
But at least get it right andsee that women have been equal
(19:55):
since the beginning.
Right there, there's never beena thing that said men were
above us or that we need to obeymen, that's.
That's never been a thing.
And the kabbalah just takes ita next step.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I think yes, that's she has.
Okay, so let's get into like.
So let's get into this, eventhough we're in it.
We're in it, but I have so manythings you know underlined here
it was great, it wasfascinating, but, like I said, I
had never so it's the elo.
The eloem is both the masculineand feminine, and that is the
deity.
The word eloem is plural,formed from the feminine
(20:33):
singular, al-elo.
By adding i-m to the word Inthe Kabbalah, we find that the
Ancient of Days conforms himselfsimultaneously into the father
and the mother and thus begetsthe son.
Now, this mother is ElohimMm-hmm.
The writer then goes on to showthat the Holy Spirit, usually
represented as masculine, is infact feminine.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
See yeah usually represented as masculine, is in
fact feminine, see, yeah Well,the sephiria is one of the links
of the tree, correct?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yes, yeah so it's one of the.
There's a sephiroth.
All these are the tencalabastical attributes of God,
I love that.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, yeah, I got that, I know, and she's quoting
Mr Mathers.
Oh, yeah, I got that, I know,and she's quoting.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Mr Mathers oh yeah, mcgregor Mathers.
To the stress laid by theKabbalah on the feminine aspects
of the deity and to theshameful way in which any
(21:36):
allusion to these has beensuppressed in the ordinary
translations of the Bible.
Also, to the Kabbalisticalequality of male and female
equality.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I know, and he says suppressed in the ordinary
translations.
Yeah, I know, and he sayssuppressed in the ordinary
translations yes, yes, and thatis what Francis specifically
focuses a lot on this point yeah, that there isn't a separation
and there's not a hierarchy ofyou know who's the most godlike
and who should be in charge.
It's like everybody is both.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, and it's time you wake up, folks Wake up party
people, Wake up folks.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
There is the origin of evil.
Yeah, 2025.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah yeah, men are trying to take over again and
you can't do it.
You can't, it's just not.
It's not okay, it's against thewhole universe.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
It's against everything that makes us human
meaning.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
We are one, we are equal.
No one bows to another ismeaning we are one, we are equal
, no one bows to another.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I'm like they are.
So it's shukma the father,baina the mother, and therein
are the shukma and baina.
So it's wisdom andunderstanding, counterbalanced
together in the most perfectequality of male and female.
And therefore are all thingsestablished in the equality of
male and female.
If it were not so, how couldthey subsist?
How, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Believe that, and she's talking, and this is why
I'm spaced out for a second,because I believe she's still
talking about MacGregor Mathers.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, he wrote.
He did a translation of theKabbalah.
Oh, there you go.
The most recent one, or mostrecent Then In the 1880s?
Yeah, most recent.
Okay, 130 years old, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
And did you see in here.
So she's talking about, and Ido believe she's still talking
about, the Mather's work.
So, and hence, that which isnot both male and female
together is called a half a body.
Now no blessing can rest upon amutilated and defective being,
but only upon a perfect placeand upon a perfect being, and
not at all.
An incomplete being and asemi-complete being cannot live
(23:56):
forever, neither can it receivea blessing forever.
That's not as hot as this otherthing.
I'm like I'm going to have todelete that out.
The following is the author'scomment on the above.
This section is anotherall-sufficient proof of the
teachings maintained throughoutthe Kabbalah, Namely sorry,
throughout the Kabbalah, namelythat man and woman are, from the
(24:18):
creation, co-equal andco-existent, perfectly equal one
with the other.
This fact, the translators ofthe Bible have been at great
pains to conceal by carefullysuppressing every reference to
the feminine portion of thedeity and by constantly
translating feminine nouns bymasculine and this is the work
(24:40):
of so-called religious men.
How dare they?
I mean really yeah.
We could have just read thatparagraph.
That's actually all I wanted tosay about that.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, exactly.
How dare they Look at it?
Speaker 1 (24:53):
How dare they?
And that is not.
And, by the way, that is notFrancis's quote.
That is from the gentlemanMathers.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, that's his comment.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
He says that when he's like.
He's stating that translatorscarefully suppressed every
reference to the feminineportion of the deity, every
reference to the feminineportion of the deity.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, constantly translating feminine nouns by
masculine I, just I.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
It makes me so mad because we're still dealing with
it, because because of aterrible translation right, well
, also, I mean, it was an evil,it was a, because it was yeah,
it was a power translation or aconcerted effort to use
spirituality as a way to I justdon't know why they turned on us
Back in biblical times theycould just grab and enslave them
(25:38):
.
In current times that's not soaccepted, although we're going
back towards that, but that'snot so accepted.
So there's other ways toenslave, and that is by changing
how women think of themselvesin the social order, how they're
able to participate in theeconomy.
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Ooh, mm-hmm, that's deep and how childbirth and
childcare is treated here.
There is a reason that nobodyever steps up to give like free
childcare or to like a year off.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
To take care of if you have kids and stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
so they just want you , filled with lots of guilt if
you, if you do.
Yeah, it is weird, but theseladies knew it.
Um, yeah, I wanted she talksabout the rib story.
Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, so we'regetting back.
I'm like getting back into the,into the kabbalah.
They call this the throbbingheart of the jewish religion,
but the rib story from the oldtestament is veiled in the
(26:34):
mystic language of symbolism.
According to occult teachings,there was a time before man was
differentiated into sexes, thatis, when he was androgynous.
Then the time came, millions ofyears ago, when the
differentiation into sexes tookplace, and that is what the Rib
story refers.
(26:55):
There has been much ignoranceand confusion in regard to the
real nature of woman, indicatingthat she is possessed of a
mystic nature and a power whichwill gradually be developed and
better understood as the worldbecomes more enlightened.
Woman has been branded as theauthor of evil in the world and,
(27:15):
at the same time, she's beenexalted to the position of
mother or of the savior of theworld.
These two positions are asconflicting as the general ideas
which have prevailed in regardto women, the great enigma of
the world.
And that is so true.
We're an enigma.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
It is an enigma because at the same we're like
we're the ones that brought allthe sin of the world and that is
so true.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
We're an enigma.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
It is an enigma, because at the same, we're like.
We're the ones that brought allthe sin and the evil.
They're like also they have allthe babies Also.
What does that mean?
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
And you brought Jesus into the world, like later, I
know, like how can that be?
How can we bring the evil?
And it doesn't make sensebecause you're one, you are
androgynous.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Correct, I had this whole thing underlined from this
Reverend Didi.
It says theological odium haslaid its hand heavily upon her
and odium is evil, or likeGeneral widespread hate.
Yeah, thank you, not evil.
Yeah, general widespread hatewhich, yeah, we are still
focusing on that you're not evil.
Yeah, general widespread hatewhich, yeah, we are still
focusing on that.
(28:16):
This odium is a thing with morehorns, more thorns, more quills
and more snarls than almost anyother sort of thing you have
ever heard of.
It has kindled as many fires ofmartyrdom.
It has slipped noose as manyropes for the necks of
well-meaning men.
It has built as many racks forthe dislocation of human bones.
It has forged as many thumbscrews.
It has built as many dungeons.
It has ostracized as manyscholars and philosophers.
(28:39):
It has set itself against lightand pushed as hard to make the
earth revolve the other way onits axis as any other force of
mischief of whatever name orkind, and he is talking about
that specifically putting womenas like an enigma by obfuscating
the feminine deity.
So when I read that I was likeso again, this is over.
(29:01):
Like 130 years ago they werelike this yeah, that's how bad.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
And that was a reverend.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
That's how serious this, overlooking this
contrivance?
This om yeah, of the femininedivine, or the feminine, the
deity yeah, they're like they're, like that's.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Nothing is as bad as that nothing but yeah, this is
where I got sad though, becauseshe was like well, hopefully,
you know, in the future we don't, since we are, since we're
talking about this, since areverend is saying these things,
you know we're going toprogress.
And she says here and it is thefearful, fearful thing with
women has to contend when she isfree from it, we may be assured
(29:39):
that the dawn of a new day isnot far off, 1895, it's 2025.
I know that same thing too andwe're so far off right.
It just it made me super sad.
It just it made me super sad.
I feel like.
I feel like we're like, I feellike the slingshot is getting
super duper pulled back and thatnot everybody is as concerned
as they should be.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
But we're hoping to make people very concerned.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
I want you to be concerned.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
You need to be very concerned.
So we have Francis talkingabout like hopefully it'll be
you know better in the futureand we've seen that before right
and other responses throughoutthe Old testament in the women's
bible, and it made me curiousand I think we've asked this
before, like well, what happened?
There was this trend for awhile in the 19th century,
(30:25):
people chopping up bibles,looking at it, using this, this
um structure of higher criticismhigher criticism well then,
what happened?
we've asked that before and whatI've found so far is there was
a period of this highercriticism where they were trying
to, you know, apply this veryVictorian like scientific
knowledge, darwin, all these newideas, and that was followed by
(30:49):
people that went and they'relike, well, we're going to go
find hard proof.
It was like this archaeologicalperiod where they were like,
said they found things thatdisproved these higher criticism
theories, where they're like soactually this did happen and
like Noah's Ark was right here.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
In Tennessee?
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
It's in Tennessee.
I'm definitely like very muchsimplifying that, but they were
looking for artifacts, yeah, soit was this archaeological
period this whole.
What year.
This is a trend, so this wouldhave been in the early 1900s.
Okay, right, so right after, soright after the higher
criticism.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
They were like wait a minute, these ladies.
We got to stamp them down.
I know they're wrong.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
So they did a bunch of stuff to you know, debunk or
diffuse the higher criticism.
However, later, later and thisis a very general again, check
the show notes but then later,even that kind of that was those
things were debunked a lot ofthis like archaeological proof.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, so anyway, they're like this is not the
face of jesus on this cloth,peeps although I think that
still exists, doesn't?
It.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
I hope so, doesn't someone have that I just.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
You know, my favorite book about Jesus was written by
Anne Rice.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Oh, my God yeah what was it?
Speaker 2 (32:05):
It's called Jesus.
It was a series Really greatbooks and you know I love.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Anne Rice.
Vampire Gal, oh yeah.
And you know I love vampires.
Vampire gal, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I was obsessed with.
I've seen her house in NewOrleans.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Okay, I was obsessed with Interview with a Vampire.
So when she came out with thesebooks on Jesus because she
became religious in her old ageDid you know that she did?
She did, and so and I know howshe researched things because I
read about her as an author,because I was like, how'd she
write these books?
Because that's the kind ofperson I am.
But she would do like crazyresearch and she would sit
(32:37):
upstairs and like not talk topeople for days and just like
read, read, read, read, read,right.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
So I was like this is going to be We'd get along with
her so well, I would too, but,yeah, she wrote the series on
Jesus.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
It was really well done so.
And then, speaking of otherbooks, so the last part of this
Frances talks about.
It wasn't the Kodachrome Biblethat I said last week, but I
love that you said it and Ithought of you.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
So she talks about these other.
She said what is known ashigher criticism, to clear away
the clouds of superstition whichhave enveloped the Bible.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
The church, the Bible , the church and the.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Bible and she brings up the polychrome.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Bible yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Isn and she brings up the polychrome Bible.
Yeah, isn't that cool.
I don't know if that's everbeen finished.
We'll check on that, I wonder.
I mean it probably has.
It's been 100 years, how longdoes it take?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Well, who knows what if they stopped it?
What if like yeah, so it beganin 1890.
It would probably not becompleted before 1900.
Yeah, different.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
So it's the word meaning in which the text, the
notes, the dates andtranslations are printed for the
sake of simplifying matters, Tomake it easier to read.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
I don't think they would have wanted us to have
that, Because they do keepsaying like there are gems in
this book.
There's gems that people shouldlive by, yes, but they are
covered up by so muchmisinformation.
Yeah, there's actually.
That's what this Kabbalahchapter shows us.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
So this convinces me even more that there is
purposeful misinformation in thetranslations which we are I
mean I guess we did just spendthe last 16 episodes talking
about that and they were hopingbecause people were doing this
higher criticism.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
The other book, the Bible and the Child, went over
and kind of how to.
It wasn't for a child to read,it was how should you introduce
the Bible to your child?
An English writer outside ofthe Orthodox Pale says, quote it
is one of the mostextraordinary books published in
the English language.
It is small, but it is just theturning scale to the side of
(34:31):
common sense in mattersreligious.
The church has at last taken astep in the right direction.
We cannot expect it to set offat a gallop, but it is fairly
ambling along in its comfortablepelfrey.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
I love that word.
Yeah, I wish Comfortablepelfrey.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I wish they would have galloped, though I know you
can gallop.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
So she's talking about the.
It's a book, it's called theBible and the Child and the
eight contributors are headed byCanon FW Farrar of England.
We got to look that up, I meanwe need to get a copy.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
What'd you find out?
Well, I just looked him up.
Guess what?
He was born in India.
So, if you didn't know, indiawas under British rule for, like
ever, like many areas in Indiaare very European, like the
Himalayas are like basicallyEurope in the mountains, because
they were missing their climateand they went up there and
(35:27):
built places like Landor andplaces like that.
But he was born in Bombay butmoved to England and he was a
writer, but he wrote about.
He even wrote his Life ofChrist the Life of Christ, 1874.
And it was really popular.
So he's a very popular guy andit ran through 30 editions Wow.
Yeah, yeah, and then he becamethe canon of Westminster Abbey
(35:47):
and then an archdeacon, and sowhat is canon?
So canon is basically he's thehead of the church.
Okay yeah, in Westminster Abbey.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yes, and here in so in Francis is talking about.
This is where it's like shewinds up talking about how
higher criticism you know inthese lofty goals of how we're
going to gallop forward and thechanges are going to be made.
And Cannon-Farr says that themanner in which the higher
criticism has progressed quoteis exactly analogous to the way
(36:19):
in which the truths of astronomyand geology have triumphed over
universal opposition.
They were once anathematized asinfidel.
They are now accepted asaxiomatic.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Isn't that?
Speaker 1 (36:31):
great, unquestionable , unquestionable, unquestionable
.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Although in 2025, we have again slid back and, sadly,
astronomy and geology are notso axiomatic across the board,
which is a little unnerving.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
That's why I have such, I got such a thing about
the term common sense and thatis what?
Again, if you look at theextreme right, they will take a
hold of that term and it reallyis.
It's like common sense for who?
Whereas this higher criticismis like we're trying to apply
these common sense life thingsthrough.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
By the way, there's like a fruit fly in here.
It's fine, do you see it?
I can't see it.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Oh, that's even better if you're like sure,
Sarah's very into that.
She's just wiping the spiritsaround her face and she brings
up free thought and freecriticism and you know the
Victorian era is so awesome andthat's why I won't read her.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
The last paragraph here is but I won't Wait, don't
read the last.
Because him saying that andsaying oh, obviously you know
we're progressing and this iswhy we need this book for the
children, because there is thishigher criticism.
It all makes sense, right,right, that we got to this point
and it's time to evolve,basically, and then because the
(38:01):
way that FEB writes it.
She says when an official ofthe Church of England, of the
high standing of Canon Farrar,comes out so boldly in the
interest of free thought andfree criticism on the lines here
to here, to held to be toosacred for human reason to cross
, it is one of the quote sign ofthe times and a most hopeful
(38:22):
one for the future.
And I just put a sad face.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
I put what changed?
Question mark question mark yes, I feel sad, I know.
And you see.
And then the next paragraph.
She said and now that we arecoming to understand the Bible
better than to worship it as anidol, it will gradually be
lifted from the shadows and thesuperstitions of an age when, as
(38:46):
fetish, fetish, same thing, oh,is it Okay?
Old English fetish, oh, I likethat.
Incorporate that freely, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Old.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
English fetish.
Oh, I like that Incorporatethat freely as a fetish.
It was exalted above reason andplaced where a spiritually
enlightened people can see it inits true light.
A book in which many a brightjewel has been buried under some
rubbish Rubbish Perhaps, aswell as under many symbolisms
and mystic language.
A book which is not above theapplication of reason and common
(39:14):
sense.
How things have changed.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Maybe it's like too much, though knowledge Like that
in the future progression doeslike really like slingshot.
I think so Us like into, like,like I said, peace and happiness
.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
So Frances Ellen Burr she was a writer.
I have looked for some of herother work because I'm like I
really loved this whole piece,so hopefully those of you that
have the book check it out.
Um, and it just makes me ache,this last paragraph, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (39:46):
a little.
Yes, I'm telling you.
I was like, oh my god, I'mgonna cry because there was so
much promise in this book, somuch hope, and like they were on
the precipice of a greatawakening.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Yes, we're precipicing right now.
Which way it'll go, I don'tknow, but I think I mean it is
you know what, though it issomething we joke about it.
They wrote this 130 years ago.
Yeah, I know we're not the onlyladies talking about it.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
We're not no, so it does stand, it's here.
We are dangling, we're danglingwe could go either way.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yep, so she writes.
We are nearing the close of aremarkable century, the last
half of which, and especiallythe last quarter, has been
crowded with discoveries, someof them startling in their
approximation to the inner oroccult world, a world in which
women has a potent sway.
The close of this century haslong been pointed to by scholars
(40:45):
, by writers and by prophetswithin the church and out of it,
as the close of the olddispensation and the opening of
a new one.
And in the view of the rapidsteps in which we are taking in
these latter years, we canalmost feel the breath of the
new cycle fan our cheeks as wewatch the deepening hues of the
(41:05):
breaking dawn.
Damn girl that is so that isbold.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
I want to be on the breaking dawn.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
We can't.
We're on the breaking dawn.
Let's just declare it this isit.
This is bold.
I want to be on the breakingdawn.
We're on the breaking dawn.
Let's just declare it.
This is it.
This is it.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
We will not go back.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
I love this too, and so importantly, the occult world
, a world in which women havepotent sway.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Potent sway.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
The occult world is where women hold sway, because
we do have the unseen power.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
I mean, I definitely think the feminine has more um,
like, we sense things in ourinner.
We're more open to thespiritual, to the things that
can't be seen right.
Absolutely, emotions, we feelthings.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
We maybe too much, but like well, our bodies
literally create humans from wedon't know where yeah, we don't
know.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
We don't know from elohim?
Speaker 1 (42:01):
I don't know whatever , yeah, and yes, so we're like
the literal, like body pathwaysbetween the unseen and then the
physical world yes however, itdoesn't have to be like women
have that, so we're likesuperior.
It's more like we cannot beseparate we cannot do a
(42:22):
hierarchy of like, well, men arebetter because they can beat
people up, or like women arebetter because they can.
It's like no, we need both wehave to be together.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
We have to be together.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
It makes the whole thing work after all of this it
is going to be hard totransition from all this
esoterica.
I know because I cultism Iactually really like this.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
I did too.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I'm like into it, I'm like dang.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Actually, this is what I've been needing in my
life.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yes, yes, like we may you know what it's our podcast.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
We can keep going but we're gonna stay in the cabula
we're not going to like.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
No, that would be a bonus, whatever.
Bonus Kabbalah Bonus, tiktok,whatever.
So, yeah, it's going to be hardto transition from all this
esoterica and occultism and backto planet Earth or planet New
Testament, anyway, yeah, right,next week.
But we believe in our Victorianfeminists' ability to bring
sass and magic to their analysis.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Magical sass I love it.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
It's a good thing.
The New Testament is going tobe good, really good.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
I believe we'll be kicking it off with the book of
Matthew.
We'll be sure to pack up theshow notes this week with all of
the different sources wementioned.
As always and forever, we'dlove to hear from you.
Check the episode descriptionfor how to reach out to us
through text or voicemail.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Yes, and we've got a fun Name that Victorian Feminist
by Her Initials.
Co-host quiz on TikTok andYouTube.
So good, we are, so fun.
We are fun.
In case you can't tell, join us.
Yeah, a great way to resistfascism is to support
independent media.
So like, comment, subscribe andshare this podcast liberally.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Just like share it out all the time, sometimes
twice a day.
That's what we recommend.
I do, you know it's better thana vitamin Sharing podcasts
helping the artist community.
So thank you for listening andwe'll catch you next week here
on the tastiest podcast of 2025.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Biting all the apples , thank you.
literally everything.
I'm just like is she going tobe okay?
I'm like she's a fucking cat.
We used to we had when I was akid.
We had cats.
They like went outside all day,I know, and I wasn't.
I was fine with that.
Yeah, couple didn't come back.
Yeah, couple didn't come back.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
My dad would be like maybe the corn bomb, like that
would be the worst thing thatcould happen to your cat or
they'd be like maybe they gotkilled by a raccoon and you're
like that's not comforting,that's like why don't you lie to
me and say they left and joineda cabal?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
It's the podcast that scheming serpent warned you
about.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Welcome to Biting All the Apples, where two gals
discuss one radical book.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
The best-selling critical and comedic masterpiece
from 1895, the Woman's Bible byElizabeth Cady Stanton and
Friends.
I'm Sarah Kay and I'm Joanna Vand hello, beautiful listeners,
(01:08):
we're we're.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
We're, we are, we are , we're.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So glad to have you here with us today for some more
modern takes on the Victorianfeminist.
Scorching hot takes on theBible Sizzling, so scorching it
is.
We wrapped up analysis on theOld Testament last week and now
we're smack dab in thein-between Limbo, the bardo, the
(01:33):
liminal space between the Oldand New Testaments.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Ooh, yeah, here we are Just dancing in the occult.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
And it's right where Stanton places a special
commentary section on theKabbalah.
Kabbalah, An esoteric pause, ifyou will, to highlight this
Jewish mystical tradition thatexplores the nature of God, the
universe and humanity's placewithin it.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, that's not a big order or anything it's just
giant, just a real small topictonight.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
It's place within it.
Yeah, that's not a big order,or anything, it's just giant.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Just a real small topic tonight it's the biggest
one.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
It likely won't surprise you to hear that the
Kabbalah allows for a much moreinteresting exploration of the
role of women.
The commentary on the Kabbalahis written by the American
suffragist and writer FrancisEllen Burr.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
F-E-B.
We talked about her last week alittle bit, just because.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
I wanted to know her initials, Feb.
The first line in hercommentary.
The first line makes the claimthat the Bible is an occult book
and if that doesn't pique yourinterest, you might be listening
to the wrong podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
That's right, I was like whoa, that's right up my
alley Bold statement.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
We'll get into all of it Burr's commentary, all of
our rabbit holes and do a quickcheck-in to see how the term
occult has changed meaning andusage over the years.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Right after we remind you all of our friendly
disclaimers Kind of have thedisclaimers Biting All the
Apples.
Covers analysis of religioustexts.
Some listeners that arereligious out of the need for
the illusion of certainty mayfind the content offensive.
Biting All the Apples alsodiscusses historic texts and
feminist movements.
We recognize that individuals,groups and alternative movements
(03:18):
have been left out of themainstream history.
We will note that wheneverpossible, we are open to
additional information providedto us in the spirit of expanding
knowledge.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
As we're doing, occult stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
It's all around us.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I know we're summoning the spirits.
Bring them in Of knowledge,bring them in.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
I love spirits Pulling it from the air.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I feel it Pulling it from the air Getting all that.
But yeah, did you all noticethat I tried very hard to say
Kabbalah?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yes, it was not how I would have said it.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So that's what I learned when we were looking,
when we, together looking intomy stuff, I saw some video, some
guy from the Great Courses, andhe's like actually it's
Kabbalah, kabbalah, but theAmericanized version is Kabbalah
, kabbalah, but the Americanizedversion is Kabbalah.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Kabbalah.
Yep, I think you can.
You know what and say peoplesay Kabbalah.
Yeah, they were switching backand forth.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
People use whatever, but Kabbalah is the actual thing
, but it's rabbi approved eitherway.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, if you say it the other way.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
So for the purposes of this episode we can
interchange, yeah, so I won'thave to pause every time where
I'm like I'm about to say it,I'm about to say it correctly,
yeah, because people know iteither way.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, yeah.
So we're getting right into theoccult I know, which you know
we both love, kind of that.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
That's why we're here .
That's like what we love.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
That's why we're here .
Yeah, no, I read it and then Iwas like, ooh, I need to know
more, because I actually I don'tknow if I ever thought about
the Kabbalah, have you I?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
mean I just never have, but in the way that most
people that lived through theearly 2000s from Ashton Kutcher
and Madonna.
Do you remember?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
No.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah, you probably were like living.
I don't know, but for a whileshe was like really Madonna was
really into it and like AshtonKutcher was seen like wearing
all white.
You know, in like Peoplemagazine.
They're like it's a trend inHollywood.
Oh really, the Kabbalah Centerin Los Angeles that started
(05:24):
which at the time.
I was like, okay, you know richpeople doing their thing.
When I was learning more aboutit through reading this, the
commentary and then some of thepodcasts and listening to some
lectures, I was like, oh, thatis so tacky.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
They're like I want to get into that, but this is
why.
But it is super interesting,it's crazy interesting.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I actually really liked what I learned about it
Same.
It also shows that it'ssomething that's like open to
total interpretation, becausesome of the when I was looking
into it, there were somepodcasts that were like using
the Kabbalah to increase wealthyou know like using it for real
estate and you're like OK.
Yeah yeah, apparently a freeforfor-all, because it isn't
(06:06):
actually a religion.
It's a way of explaining thedifferent phases and components
of the life that we can see andwhat is unseen.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I like to think of it as kind of like your mind, and
so it goes in layers.
The Kabbalah, it's like a treeof life.
So there's, you know you canhave nothingness.
Then a little bit of something,then an idea, and then the idea
builds and, honestly, isn'tthat actually what we're doing
Exactly?
And I was like this is like.
(06:37):
This makes sense to me.
Yes, and it was written in likeonly 200 BC.
200 BC like only 200 yearsbefore Christ.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
The other explanation that I really like was this one
rabbi was on there talkingabout it, and this is.
It was a video titled like Doyou have to Be 40 Years Old to
Listen?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Oh yeah, To Read the Kabbalah yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
And, but they explained it as it is.
Think of it like how there'sdark matter in the universe.
So the Kabbalah is the darkmatter of religion.
Oh, you know, it's the thingsthat are unseen.
Oh yeah, but it's still a hugeforce, so it is possible that's
the thing that's hard to getpast, so like you can't see it.
(07:19):
Yeah, it's a thing that's hardto connect because you're like
it's not like if people follow,you know the Kabbalah, they
aren't Christian or they aren'tJewish.
It can be a supplementary wayof still practicing those
religions.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I would love to see how it's written, though, so
I've read about it, but, like, Iwould love to see how it reads.
You know like the Bible can beread literary.
Well, it has to be read inHebrew, I believe, yeah, which
is a whole thing I learned aboutthe.
Hebrew.
From what I heard, that won'tbe easy.
Hebrew is very difficult.
They said it's close to achemical language.
(07:54):
Yeah so, and all the letterscorrespond in numbers.
And so you can add things up.
It's interesting, it is veryinteresting, it's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
And, of course, this podcast is to talk about the
responses in the Women's Bible.
But we couldn't help but gocheck all this stuff out.
I was even stuck at the first,her first sentence, which says
the bible is an occult book, anda remarkable one when I say
first I'm talking about our galfrancis, francis feb.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Did we, did I say francis, did you?
Yeah, did you learn anythingabout her?
Speaker 1 (08:28):
but that's okay.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So before that, so occult okay so she's the only
one that talks.
This is her entire.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
She's the only one that talks.
This is her entire.
She's the only one that writesabout.
She writes this wholecommentary on the Kabbalah and
when I first saw that wordoccult, it reminded me I'm like
it's so fun being raisedespecially like coming of age in
the 90s, you know, with likesatanic panic.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Oh, yeah, yeah and all that, and Ozzy just died.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I know Rest in peace, rest in rock, rest in rock that
when I hear a cult I justimmediately go to like the
negative and devil.
And even though I know it's not, but just your initial feeling
of it, and I'm like I wonder,like what that meant back then.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Oh, did you look it up?
Yeah, of course I did, I loveit.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
I'm going to slam around here, but it means the
same.
I'm like let me just check myfiles.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Hey, you got all those notes.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I know, I want to know.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Has it changed?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
The original use of it was to study things that were
unseen, or the spiritual realm,things that are unseen, which,
by itself saying occult, there'snot like negative connotations
to that.
It's just more like.
That's what it is Like.
An occultist is somebody thatis interested in the spiritual
world and the unseen and some ofthe stuff that I found I'm like
.
Some of the stuff I foundonline is that there was a
(09:44):
change, like in the nineties,for different uses of it 1890s,
1990s.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
As soon as I said 90s , I was like girl, you better
specify In the 1990s.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
But it has changed over time in what people
associate with it.
You know negative connotationsand stuff.
Cindy, the producer cat, ishere.
She might have felt somespirits.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Yeah, she was like we talking about the occult, bring
me in, sister, Bring me in,she's like bring me in.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
So occultism, hidden or supernatural knowledge and
powers.
Occultism in the 1800s reallyemphasized esoteric knowledge
and remember in the late 1800sthere was all that spiritualism.
And in the spiritualism.
Part of that was meant.
That's where they had all thestances and were meant to
communicate with spirits.
(10:34):
Yeah, yeah, so occultism is theumbrella, spiritualism is just
like a section of that.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
So basically, the unseen as it pertains to
Victorian times.
The unseen.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yes, the unseen.
Okay, but occult is from theLatin word occultus, and it
means clandestine, hidden,secret, knowledge of the hidden.
So that's what occult means andthat's yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So the people that could read this?
That's why they say it'sesoteric language.
Only certain people can read itand interpret it, which I find
you know anything like that.
I'm like why would only certainpeople?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
be able to read that, because that means that you can
always have somebody in power.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Yeah, I don't like that.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
The person with the knowledge has the power.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
I'm really ready for the kumbaya part.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
I know what happened to kumbaya, I know, but by that
definition, frances, she's right, the Bible isn't a cult book.
Yeah, yeah, it just seemsshocking to say now, but it's
true, but actually the more Ithink about it.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
So Moses on the mountain obviously was doing all
sorts of magic stuff.
Fire all this stuff.
He got the tablets of the TenCommandments.
This he also got, but nothingwritten down.
It was all oral.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Right, that's the part that's fascinating.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Right, right, right.
And who told him?
Who told him Was?
Speaker 1 (11:53):
it a Joanna's making a hand motion from the sky.
Was it To her temple.
Yes, from the sky to her temple.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Where did it come the universe?
So yeah, it was handed downjust orally.
There was nothing written.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
So why were the rules written and why was the
Kabbalah not written?
And this is where we'restarting to see the division
between you know religion, whichis more like controlled rules,
rules and ways to live, and thenspirituality.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
So well, I really think the Kabbalah is the way to
go after I'm like you're likewe should all just start doing
the Kabbalah.
I know I mean, it made sense tome.
It even talked about the angelsbeing part of you.
We are it, and this planetwe're on is the chosen place.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
In this part of the tree.
Yeah, I'll try to put a picture, try.
I will put a link to the treethat they show for the top of it
, because it builds it's layersof spirituality?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
I guess yeah, From the unknown to the known.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
The fact that it was, that it's set up in a tree
reminded me.
And we're not even getting tothe women's Bible thing yet but
it reminded me of.
Are you familiar with the Norsemythology?
I mean a little bit.
That whole thing is based on atree.
Oh the tree of it's like a treeof life.
I'm bad at pronouncing thisstuff.
(13:17):
It's Yggdrasil.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Mm.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I'm not saying it, it's Y-G-G-Yggdrasil.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Well, if it's Hebrew, you're not going to be able to.
Well, this is Nordic, this islike Norse mythology.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
Okay, but isn't that crazy that, like Norse mythology
involves like a huge tree andan eagle, and then there is a
squirrel, a magical squirrelthat runs between the levels of
the tree and the levels of thistree.
(13:55):
In Norse mythology is about thedifferent layers of perception
and spirituality and life on theplanet.
And I'm like that's kind of itall.
There's so many repeat storiesor repeating narrative motifs.
Yes, I love that and, just likeyou had mentioned, with the
tarot, yeah, yeah, the tarot,the tarot.
I didn't realize the symbols ontarot cards correspond to the
Kabbalah, like the the knives,the knives and um the wands,
(14:16):
yeah so there's 10 of each card.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Is that what they said?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
and and each of the cards does correspond to the see
that when I heard them, like Ineed to double check that.
But I've I've always lovedtarot for that reason, because
it there.
It ties into so many differentreligious traditions that it
just shows you that allreligions have a birth, sin,
(14:40):
redemption, you know a rebirthstory, and that's the major
arcana of the tarot.
That's what if you walk throughit?
You?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
know you start with the fool.
Now, you've studied thatbecause you do that.
You do so how long have youbeen?
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Oh, my gosh, I've had .
I had a tarot, my first tarotdeck, I think I had like 19.
Okay, and now that I'm 25.
For a good long while.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
And I liked it, for I mean, I do, I like the woo-woo
stuff a bit, but even more forthat like storytelling.
And then also you know oh gosh,I'm losing my words what is it?
You know, almost like narrativetherapy.
There's just so many repeatstories that people need to hear
and retell to like comfort Ilove that.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah, and to explain our existence, I'm telling you
we do need a lot of comfort.
I've learned that.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yes, it's very much the other thing.
I was thinking of you when youbrought the tarot and the tarot
again.
The major arcana is the hero'sjourney.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Oh, it like absolutely is if you go through
it, it follows that.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
You know, joseph campbell, I know, I know they
all, it all goes together.
That's the background of thekabbalah.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
But my favorite thing about this whole section was
that men and women in theKabbalah it's more non-binary
right.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
That's the part that's in the women's Bible.
For a reason, yes.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Yeah, and you know we talked about that in Genesis
way back in our like first, youknow, second episode.
This really comes into men andwomen are one, equal and that
really humans, everybody's both,everybody's both, everybody has
both qualities.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Yes, In fact I'm sure we have highlighted a lot.
So now we're actually to thepart in the woman's Bible about.
Francis and I told you I lookedher up.
She's from Connecticut.
She started the first Women'sSuffrage Association in
Connecticut.
She was also one of the fewespecially of the Women's Bible
contributors that actually livedlong enough to see women's
suffrage.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Oh, thank goodness, some of them did.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
And she was a writer and organizer.
It says here you know, writer,speaker, reporter, stenographer,
journalist, activist, francesEllen Burr has done more to
popularize.
I'm having a hard time talking.
Popularize, that's a hard word.
Popular Okay, I want to bepopular.
Did you know thatneurodivergent people often slur
their words?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Because they talk so dang fast.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
That's why I'm like I need to slow down.
We're not in a race, yeah, butI am excited to tell you this
and then we can get to talkingabout it another time.
So Frances Ellen Burr has donemore to popularize the question
of women's suffrage than anyoneelse in the state of Connecticut
.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Isn't that awesome, it's just totally cool.
You know what I'm interested inwith all these ladies.
I want I do.
I know I've mentioned thisbefore, but I would love to hear
from their ancestors Like, whatdid the women in their families
aspire?
Where did they end up?
Can we do that?
As like, a as like.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
And do any of you out there know Any ancestors?
Does anybody know anything?
So yeah, frances, she's awesome.
We hadn't seen any of herwriting before this.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
No, and this must be her jam.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
I did Well, and that's what I was trying to find
out.
I'm like why is this her jam?
Couldn't find anything specific, so if anybody knows, let me
know why is this her?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
thing?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, but also, that was just the tradition.
I'm sure a lot of these women'srights activists were into, you
know, taking down, taking downthe Bible not taking down the
Bible this is the other termthat I learned is there was a
trend in this type of criticism,which was called specifically
higher criticism.
Higher criticism it's actuallylike what they?
(18:30):
That was the methodology whenthey went back to look at the
Bible.
So in the 19th century it wasmore like they were looking at
it historically and through theeyes of how it was written at
that time, instead of just likewhatever it was, God wrote it.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
So there must have been a split there in the
religions.
Yes, Because, like I told you,the Episcopal people seem to be
right on the same track as theseladies, Like they went.
Their allegory, their stories.
There's lessons, but if you'regetting anything besides like we
need to help the poor and dothen you're not following
(19:04):
anything in any version.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
You're like you're not.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Yeah, yeah yeah, and it's more and more.
I see more and more of theseEpiscopalians coming out and
just saying no, please stop.
And even Catholics are comingout and speaking out.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, with the help from the new pope, who is, you
know, a woke Marxist pope, aswoke as he can be for a religion
that doesn't allow women inleadership.
But you know, anyways.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
But these ladies I mean they were in the forefront,
these, out of all the women inthe United States, these women
were well known, they were goingto the Capitol, they were
speaking out, they were sayingwe know that religion is in our
laws, we know that and that'sfine.
But at least get it right andsee that women have been equal
(19:55):
since the beginning.
Right there, there's never beena thing that said men were
above us or that we need to obeymen, that's.
That's never been a thing.
And the kabbalah just takes ita next step.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
I think yes, that's she has.
Okay, so let's get into like.
So let's get into this, eventhough we're in it.
We're in it, but I have so manythings you know underlined here
it was great, it wasfascinating, but, like I said, I
had never so it's the elo.
The eloem is both the masculineand feminine, and that is the
deity.
The word eloem is plural,formed from the feminine
(20:33):
singular, al-elo.
By adding i-m to the word Inthe Kabbalah, we find that the
Ancient of Days conforms himselfsimultaneously into the father
and the mother and thus begetsthe son.
Now, this mother is ElohimMm-hmm.
The writer then goes on to showthat the Holy Spirit, usually
represented as masculine, is infact feminine.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
See yeah usually represented as masculine, is in
fact feminine, see, yeah Well,the sephiria is one of the links
of the tree, correct?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Yes, yeah so it's one of the.
There's a sephiroth.
All these are the tencalabastical attributes of God,
I love that.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Oh, I love that.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, yeah, I got that, I know, and she's quoting
Mr Mathers.
Oh, yeah, I got that, I know,and she's quoting.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Mr Mathers oh yeah, mcgregor Mathers.
To the stress laid by theKabbalah on the feminine aspects
of the deity and to theshameful way in which any
(21:36):
allusion to these has beensuppressed in the ordinary
translations of the Bible.
Also, to the Kabbalisticalequality of male and female
equality.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I know, and he says suppressed in the ordinary
translations.
Yeah, I know, and he sayssuppressed in the ordinary
translations yes, yes, and thatis what Francis specifically
focuses a lot on this point yeah, that there isn't a separation
and there's not a hierarchy ofyou know who's the most godlike
and who should be in charge.
It's like everybody is both.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, and it's time you wake up, folks Wake up party
people, Wake up folks.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
There is the origin of evil.
Yeah, 2025.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah yeah, men are trying to take over again and
you can't do it.
You can't, it's just not.
It's not okay, it's against thewhole universe.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
It's against everything that makes us human
meaning.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
We are one, we are equal.
No one bows to another ismeaning we are one, we are equal
, no one bows to another.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
I'm like they are.
So it's shukma the father,baina the mother, and therein
are the shukma and baina.
So it's wisdom andunderstanding, counterbalanced
together in the most perfectequality of male and female.
And therefore are all thingsestablished in the equality of
male and female.
If it were not so, how couldthey subsist?
How, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Believe that, and she's talking, and this is why
I'm spaced out for a second,because I believe she's still
talking about MacGregor Mathers.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah, he wrote.
He did a translation of theKabbalah.
Oh, there you go.
The most recent one, or mostrecent Then In the 1880s?
Yeah, most recent.
Okay, 130 years old, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
And did you see in here.
So she's talking about, and Ido believe she's still talking
about, the Mather's work.
So, and hence, that which isnot both male and female
together is called a half a body.
Now no blessing can rest upon amutilated and defective being,
but only upon a perfect placeand upon a perfect being, and
not at all.
An incomplete being and asemi-complete being cannot live
(23:56):
forever, neither can it receivea blessing forever.
That's not as hot as this otherthing.
I'm like I'm going to have todelete that out.
The following is the author'scomment on the above.
This section is anotherall-sufficient proof of the
teachings maintained throughoutthe Kabbalah, Namely sorry,
throughout the Kabbalah, namelythat man and woman are, from the
(24:18):
creation, co-equal andco-existent, perfectly equal one
with the other.
This fact, the translators ofthe Bible have been at great
pains to conceal by carefullysuppressing every reference to
the feminine portion of thedeity and by constantly
translating feminine nouns bymasculine and this is the work
(24:40):
of so-called religious men.
How dare they?
I mean really yeah.
We could have just read thatparagraph.
That's actually all I wanted tosay about that.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah, exactly.
How dare they Look at it?
Speaker 1 (24:53):
How dare they?
And that is not.
And, by the way, that is notFrancis's quote.
That is from the gentlemanMathers.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, that's his comment.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
He says that when he's like.
He's stating that translatorscarefully suppressed every
reference to the feminineportion of the deity, every
reference to the feminineportion of the deity.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, constantly translating feminine nouns by
masculine I, just I.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
It makes me so mad because we're still dealing with
it, because because of aterrible translation right, well
, also, I mean, it was an evil,it was a, because it was yeah,
it was a power translation or aconcerted effort to use
spirituality as a way to I justdon't know why they turned on us
Back in biblical times theycould just grab and enslave them
(25:38):
.
In current times that's not soaccepted, although we're going
back towards that, but that'snot so accepted.
So there's other ways toenslave, and that is by changing
how women think of themselvesin the social order, how they're
able to participate in theeconomy.
Right yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Ooh, mm-hmm, that's deep and how childbirth and
childcare is treated here.
There is a reason that nobodyever steps up to give like free
childcare or to like a year off.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
To take care of if you have kids and stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
so they just want you , filled with lots of guilt if
you, if you do.
Yeah, it is weird, but theseladies knew it.
Um, yeah, I wanted she talksabout the rib story.
Oh, yeah, yeah, okay, so we'regetting back.
I'm like getting back into the,into the kabbalah.
They call this the throbbingheart of the jewish religion,
but the rib story from the oldtestament is veiled in the
(26:34):
mystic language of symbolism.
According to occult teachings,there was a time before man was
differentiated into sexes, thatis, when he was androgynous.
Then the time came, millions ofyears ago, when the
differentiation into sexes tookplace, and that is what the Rib
story refers.
(26:55):
There has been much ignoranceand confusion in regard to the
real nature of woman, indicatingthat she is possessed of a
mystic nature and a power whichwill gradually be developed and
better understood as the worldbecomes more enlightened.
Woman has been branded as theauthor of evil in the world and,
(27:15):
at the same time, she's beenexalted to the position of
mother or of the savior of theworld.
These two positions are asconflicting as the general ideas
which have prevailed in regardto women, the great enigma of
the world.
And that is so true.
We're an enigma.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
It is an enigma because at the same we're like
we're the ones that brought allthe sin of the world and that is
so true.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
We're an enigma.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
It is an enigma, because at the same, we're like.
We're the ones that brought allthe sin and the evil.
They're like also they have allthe babies Also.
What does that mean?
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (27:41):
And you brought Jesus into the world, like later, I
know, like how can that be?
How can we bring the evil?
And it doesn't make sensebecause you're one, you are
androgynous.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Correct, I had this whole thing underlined from this
Reverend Didi.
It says theological odium haslaid its hand heavily upon her
and odium is evil, or likeGeneral widespread hate.
Yeah, thank you, not evil.
Yeah, general widespread hatewhich, yeah, we are still
focusing on that you're not evil.
Yeah, general widespread hatewhich, yeah, we are still
focusing on that.
(28:16):
This odium is a thing with morehorns, more thorns, more quills
and more snarls than almost anyother sort of thing you have
ever heard of.
It has kindled as many fires ofmartyrdom.
It has slipped noose as manyropes for the necks of
well-meaning men.
It has built as many racks forthe dislocation of human bones.
It has forged as many thumbscrews.
It has built as many dungeons.
It has ostracized as manyscholars and philosophers.
(28:39):
It has set itself against lightand pushed as hard to make the
earth revolve the other way onits axis as any other force of
mischief of whatever name orkind, and he is talking about
that specifically putting womenas like an enigma by obfuscating
the feminine deity.
So when I read that I was likeso again, this is over.
(29:01):
Like 130 years ago they werelike this yeah, that's how bad.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
And that was a reverend.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
That's how serious this, overlooking this
contrivance?
This om yeah, of the femininedivine, or the feminine, the
deity yeah, they're like they're, like that's.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Nothing is as bad as that nothing but yeah, this is
where I got sad though, becauseshe was like well, hopefully,
you know, in the future we don't, since we are, since we're
talking about this, since areverend is saying these things,
you know we're going toprogress.
And she says here and it is thefearful, fearful thing with
women has to contend when she isfree from it, we may be assured
(29:39):
that the dawn of a new day isnot far off, 1895, it's 2025.
I know that same thing too andwe're so far off right.
It just it made me super sad.
It just it made me super sad.
I feel like.
I feel like we're like, I feellike the slingshot is getting
super duper pulled back and thatnot everybody is as concerned
as they should be.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
But we're hoping to make people very concerned.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
I want you to be concerned.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
You need to be very concerned.
So we have Francis talkingabout like hopefully it'll be
you know better in the futureand we've seen that before right
and other responses throughoutthe Old testament in the women's
bible, and it made me curiousand I think we've asked this
before, like well, what happened?
There was this trend for awhile in the 19th century,
(30:25):
people chopping up bibles,looking at it, using this, this
um structure of higher criticismhigher criticism well then,
what happened?
we've asked that before and whatI've found so far is there was
a period of this highercriticism where they were trying
to, you know, apply this veryVictorian like scientific
knowledge, darwin, all these newideas, and that was followed by
(30:49):
people that went and they'relike, well, we're going to go
find hard proof.
It was like this archaeologicalperiod where they were like,
said they found things thatdisproved these higher criticism
theories, where they're like soactually this did happen and
like Noah's Ark was right here.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
In Tennessee?
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
It's in Tennessee.
I'm definitely like very muchsimplifying that, but they were
looking for artifacts, yeah, soit was this archaeological
period this whole.
What year.
This is a trend, so this wouldhave been in the early 1900s.
Okay, right, so right after, soright after the higher
criticism.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
They were like wait a minute, these ladies.
We got to stamp them down.
I know they're wrong.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
So they did a bunch of stuff to you know, debunk or
diffuse the higher criticism.
However, later, later and thisis a very general again, check
the show notes but then later,even that kind of that was those
things were debunked a lot ofthis like archaeological proof.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, so anyway, they're like this is not the
face of jesus on this cloth,peeps although I think that
still exists, doesn't?
It.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
I hope so, doesn't someone have that I just.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
You know, my favorite book about Jesus was written by
Anne Rice.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Oh, my God yeah what was it?
Speaker 2 (32:05):
It's called Jesus.
It was a series Really greatbooks and you know I love.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Anne Rice.
Vampire Gal, oh yeah.
And you know I love vampires.
Vampire gal, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I was obsessed with.
I've seen her house in NewOrleans.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Okay, I was obsessed with Interview with a Vampire.
So when she came out with thesebooks on Jesus because she
became religious in her old ageDid you know that she did?
She did, and so and I know howshe researched things because I
read about her as an author,because I was like, how'd she
write these books?
Because that's the kind ofperson I am.
But she would do like crazyresearch and she would sit
(32:37):
upstairs and like not talk topeople for days and just like
read, read, read, read, read,right.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
So I was like this is going to be We'd get along with
her so well, I would too, but,yeah, she wrote the series on
Jesus.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
It was really well done so.
And then, speaking of otherbooks, so the last part of this
Frances talks about.
It wasn't the Kodachrome Biblethat I said last week, but I
love that you said it and Ithought of you.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
So she talks about these other.
She said what is known ashigher criticism, to clear away
the clouds of superstition whichhave enveloped the Bible.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
The church, the Bible , the church and the.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
Bible and she brings up the polychrome.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Bible yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Isn and she brings up the polychrome Bible.
Yeah, isn't that cool.
I don't know if that's everbeen finished.
We'll check on that, I wonder.
I mean it probably has.
It's been 100 years, how longdoes it take?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Well, who knows what if they stopped it?
What if like yeah, so it beganin 1890.
It would probably not becompleted before 1900.
Yeah, different.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
So it's the word meaning in which the text, the
notes, the dates andtranslations are printed for the
sake of simplifying matters, Tomake it easier to read.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
I don't think they would have wanted us to have
that, Because they do keepsaying like there are gems in
this book.
There's gems that people shouldlive by, yes, but they are
covered up by so muchmisinformation.
Yeah, there's actually.
That's what this Kabbalahchapter shows us.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
So this convinces me even more that there is
purposeful misinformation in thetranslations which we are I
mean I guess we did just spendthe last 16 episodes talking
about that and they were hopingbecause people were doing this
higher criticism.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
The other book, the Bible and the Child, went over
and kind of how to.
It wasn't for a child to read,it was how should you introduce
the Bible to your child?
An English writer outside ofthe Orthodox Pale says, quote it
is one of the mostextraordinary books published in
the English language.
It is small, but it is just theturning scale to the side of
(34:31):
common sense in mattersreligious.
The church has at last taken astep in the right direction.
We cannot expect it to set offat a gallop, but it is fairly
ambling along in its comfortablepelfrey.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
I love that word.
Yeah, I wish Comfortablepelfrey.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I wish they would have galloped, though I know you
can gallop.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
So she's talking about the.
It's a book, it's called theBible and the Child and the
eight contributors are headed byCanon FW Farrar of England.
We got to look that up, I meanwe need to get a copy.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
What'd you find out?
Well, I just looked him up.
Guess what?
He was born in India.
So, if you didn't know, indiawas under British rule for, like
ever, like many areas in Indiaare very European, like the
Himalayas are like basicallyEurope in the mountains, because
they were missing their climateand they went up there and
(35:27):
built places like Landor andplaces like that.
But he was born in Bombay butmoved to England and he was a
writer, but he wrote about.
He even wrote his Life ofChrist the Life of Christ, 1874.
And it was really popular.
So he's a very popular guy andit ran through 30 editions Wow.
Yeah, yeah, and then he becamethe canon of Westminster Abbey
(35:47):
and then an archdeacon, and sowhat is canon?
So canon is basically he's thehead of the church.
Okay yeah, in Westminster Abbey.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yes, and here in so in Francis is talking about.
This is where it's like shewinds up talking about how
higher criticism you know inthese lofty goals of how we're
going to gallop forward and thechanges are going to be made.
And Cannon-Farr says that themanner in which the higher
criticism has progressed quoteis exactly analogous to the way
(36:19):
in which the truths of astronomyand geology have triumphed over
universal opposition.
They were once anathematized asinfidel.
They are now accepted asaxiomatic.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Isn't that?
Speaker 1 (36:31):
great, unquestionable , unquestionable, unquestionable
.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Although in 2025, we have again slid back and, sadly,
astronomy and geology are notso axiomatic across the board,
which is a little unnerving.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
That's why I have such, I got such a thing about
the term common sense and thatis what?
Again, if you look at theextreme right, they will take a
hold of that term and it reallyis.
It's like common sense for who?
Whereas this higher criticismis like we're trying to apply
these common sense life thingsthrough.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
By the way, there's like a fruit fly in here.
It's fine, do you see it?
I can't see it.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Oh, that's even better if you're like sure,
Sarah's very into that.
She's just wiping the spiritsaround her face and she brings
up free thought and freecriticism and you know the
Victorian era is so awesome andthat's why I won't read her.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
The last paragraph here is but I won't Wait, don't
read the last.
Because him saying that andsaying oh, obviously you know
we're progressing and this iswhy we need this book for the
children, because there is thishigher criticism.
It all makes sense, right,right, that we got to this point
and it's time to evolve,basically, and then because the
(38:01):
way that FEB writes it.
She says when an official ofthe Church of England, of the
high standing of Canon Farrar,comes out so boldly in the
interest of free thought andfree criticism on the lines here
to here, to held to be toosacred for human reason to cross
, it is one of the quote sign ofthe times and a most hopeful
(38:22):
one for the future.
And I just put a sad face.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
I put what changed?
Question mark question mark yes, I feel sad, I know.
And you see.
And then the next paragraph.
She said and now that we arecoming to understand the Bible
better than to worship it as anidol, it will gradually be
lifted from the shadows and thesuperstitions of an age when, as
(38:46):
fetish, fetish, same thing, oh,is it Okay?
Old English fetish, oh, I likethat.
Incorporate that freely, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Old.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
English fetish.
Oh, I like that Incorporatethat freely as a fetish.
It was exalted above reason andplaced where a spiritually
enlightened people can see it inits true light.
A book in which many a brightjewel has been buried under some
rubbish Rubbish Perhaps, aswell as under many symbolisms
and mystic language.
A book which is not above theapplication of reason and common
(39:14):
sense.
How things have changed.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Maybe it's like too much, though knowledge Like that
in the future progression doeslike really like slingshot.
I think so Us like into, like,like I said, peace and happiness
.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
So Frances Ellen Burr she was a writer.
I have looked for some of herother work because I'm like I
really loved this whole piece,so hopefully those of you that
have the book check it out.
Um, and it just makes me ache,this last paragraph, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (39:46):
a little.
Yes, I'm telling you.
I was like, oh my god, I'mgonna cry because there was so
much promise in this book, somuch hope, and like they were on
the precipice of a greatawakening.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Yes, we're precipicing right now.
Which way it'll go, I don'tknow, but I think I mean it is
you know what, though it issomething we joke about it.
They wrote this 130 years ago.
Yeah, I know we're not the onlyladies talking about it.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
We're not no, so it does stand, it's here.
We are dangling, we're danglingwe could go either way.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yep, so she writes.
We are nearing the close of aremarkable century, the last
half of which, and especiallythe last quarter, has been
crowded with discoveries, someof them startling in their
approximation to the inner oroccult world, a world in which
women has a potent sway.
The close of this century haslong been pointed to by scholars
(40:45):
, by writers and by prophetswithin the church and out of it,
as the close of the olddispensation and the opening of
a new one.
And in the view of the rapidsteps in which we are taking in
these latter years, we canalmost feel the breath of the
new cycle fan our cheeks as wewatch the deepening hues of the
(41:05):
breaking dawn.
Damn girl that is so that isbold.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
I want to be on the breaking dawn.
Speaker 1 (41:12):
We can't.
We're on the breaking dawn.
Let's just declare it this isit.
This is bold.
I want to be on the breakingdawn.
We're on the breaking dawn.
Let's just declare it.
This is it.
This is it.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
We will not go back.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
I love this too, and so importantly, the occult world
, a world in which women havepotent sway.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Potent sway.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
The occult world is where women hold sway, because
we do have the unseen power.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
I mean, I definitely think the feminine has more um,
like, we sense things in ourinner.
We're more open to thespiritual, to the things that
can't be seen right.
Absolutely, emotions, we feelthings.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
We maybe too much, but like well, our bodies
literally create humans from wedon't know where yeah, we don't
know.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
We don't know from elohim?
Speaker 1 (42:01):
I don't know whatever , yeah, and yes, so we're like
the literal, like body pathwaysbetween the unseen and then the
physical world yes however, itdoesn't have to be like women
have that, so we're likesuperior.
It's more like we cannot beseparate we cannot do a
(42:22):
hierarchy of like, well, men arebetter because they can beat
people up, or like women arebetter because they can.
It's like no, we need both wehave to be together.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
We have to be together.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
It makes the whole thing work after all of this it
is going to be hard totransition from all this
esoterica.
I know because I cultism Iactually really like this.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
I did too.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
I'm like into it, I'm like dang.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Actually, this is what I've been needing in my
life.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yes, yes, like we may you know what it's our podcast.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
We can keep going but we're gonna stay in the cabula
we're not going to like.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
No, that would be a bonus, whatever.
Bonus Kabbalah Bonus, tiktok,whatever.
So, yeah, it's going to be hardto transition from all this
esoterica and occultism and backto planet Earth or planet New
Testament, anyway, yeah, right,next week.
But we believe in our Victorianfeminists' ability to bring
sass and magic to their analysis.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
Magical sass I love it.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
It's a good thing.
The New Testament is going tobe good, really good.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
I believe we'll be kicking it off with the book of
Matthew.
We'll be sure to pack up theshow notes this week with all of
the different sources wementioned.
As always and forever, we'dlove to hear from you.
Check the episode descriptionfor how to reach out to us
through text or voicemail.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Yes, and we've got a fun Name that Victorian Feminist
by Her Initials.
Co-host quiz on TikTok andYouTube.
So good, we are, so fun.
We are fun.
In case you can't tell, join us.
Yeah, a great way to resistfascism is to support
independent media.
So like, comment, subscribe andshare this podcast liberally.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Just like share it out all the time, sometimes
twice a day.
That's what we recommend.
I do, you know it's better thana vitamin Sharing podcasts
helping the artist community.
So thank you for listening andwe'll catch you next week here
on the tastiest podcast of 2025.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Biting all the apples , thank you.
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