Electric Bodies: How Mixed Metals Create Silent Health Crises

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We are going to stop.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Yep, yep.
So let's go ahead and yeah, sothings that.
Just so you know what I foundout yesterday up at the
corrosion engineers up in Canada.
It was, you know, five and ahalf hours up there, five and a
half hours back Five and a halfhours.
Got back at 11 o'clock lastnight, but we were looking at,
you know, sammy Nimbisi.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yeah, we were looking at you know, sammy Nimbisi,
yeah, yeah, so Sammy had sentsome implants, titanium implants
because we're having theseproblems, like I presented in
Istanbul, with titanium implantsright, or at least we're seeing
with the FDA and complaints, sobrought some up and we were
looking at that and I have someof those to show you here.
But the abutment seemed to bewhere the problem was with the

(00:44):
titanium and that's where we'reseeing the corrosion and so we
can discuss that.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Man, we're already on , so let's go.
I like that.
We're going to talk abouteverything.
So, scott, it's been a whilesince I've done one of these
podcasts.
Sometimes I always feel thatthere's just too much
information out there.
So, biting into healthcare.
I started about three, fouryears ago during the pandemic,

(01:12):
had nothing else to do and theidea was just to get ideas out
there with a timestamp on themthat needed to get out there the
sooner the better, for you knowpeople to be aware of certain
ideas and concepts, and after Isaw your lecture in Istanbul,
you know I of course I'd knownaround metal hypersensitivities,

(01:35):
I know the work of Linda Nelson, and but to see the way that
you explain this, being anorthopedic surgeon, and the
emails that you sent to me, Ijust want more people to know
about this.
So just a little bit about you,if you want to just explain
people who you are.
So of course you know you wentto Washington State University.

(01:57):
You're an orthopedic surgeon,but explain a little bit in
detail.
You know how you started yourcareer, what you learned, what
you did and where you are today,just so people know who you are
.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
So yeah, my I mean briefly my dad was an
anesthesiologist.
He was chairman of the board ofthe hospital here looking at
medicine.
Really, after I looked at footand ankle side of things and
really got excited about thatand so went into that ankle side
of things and really gotexcited about that and so went
into that and so that's what Ido and put a lot of implants in
patients over the years metal,metallic implants, because

(02:32):
that's what we had.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
But you're talking foot and ankle right.
You're a foot and anklespecialist, correct?

Speaker 2 (02:39):
correct Foot and ankle specialist, yep, and right
now I'm working with a lot ofpeople that work, you know, you
know, basically, patients andthe Doc's, you know spine
surgeons, head and neck surgeonsand others, because they don't
understand a whole lot of themetal hypersensitivity or metal
reaction thing either.
We were never trained, you know, about that in our, in our

(03:00):
training, unfortunately, and Ithink that needs to change.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
that's one of the probably the biggest things that
needs to change is that so andin your, in your, what your
career was 30 year career right,doing, uh, foot and ankle
surgery.
So let's just say I'm animplant dentist, so my implants
go in the jaw.
I've been doing that for about25 years.
We did the industry's beendoing it for about 50-60 years,

(03:26):
since Brunnermark invented thetitanium implant, and there's
hundreds of millions of peoplearound the world with titanium
implants in their mouths and, Icould only presume, even more
with pins in their ankles andfeet, because it's a very common
fracture, right?

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Very well or surgery that we do to reconstruct the
foot.
You know, like some of my, alot of my surgeries weren't just
fractures, they werereconstruction, where and I'll
show you some of those slides,but where it's, you know, seven,
eight-hour long surgery tostraighten the feet out, to
allow people to walk again,without, you know, pain, the
goal.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
So, just to set the stage before you start showing
these slides and of course I'llbe putting this out on youtube
as well, on my youtube channel,um um, I've always paid
attention to the science and theevidence and you know things
that I learned in my training in1998, when I learned how to do

(04:25):
implants.
We were always focused on theosteointegration of these
fixtures.
So do they integrate?
Does the bone?
And I remember discussions 30years ago, you know, is it
fibrointegration, is itosteointegration?
And then the different coatingof these implants to improve the
biology and the, you know, theosteoinduction or conduction of

(04:47):
bone formation against thesurface, because we wanted these
things to stay and, you know,to last.
Was that the same with you?
Was that the major concern?

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Well, when you're dealing for me?
No, not as much.
We wanted the bone to be ableto get compression with the
screws to hold the bone piecestogether, so they can heal and
once those bones heal, we'redone.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
Let's say just retention plates, so like,
basically, to join a fracture.
Let's put it that way.
So the only thing going in thebone marrow per se would be the
fixation screw, correct, correct, okay, nonetheless.
Oh, yes, only thing going inthe bone marrow per se would be
the, the, the fixation screw,correct, correct, nonetheless.
Yes, this would, this would beput inside the body anyway,
right sitting on the below theperiosteum, above the bone,

(05:34):
correct uh, correct.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
Well, well, above the peri, the plate is, above the
periosteum, the screws gothroughiosteum the screws go
through, all right so still,there's a lot of irrigation,
innervation, all of that.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
And then I remember about 15 years ago we became a
bit more concerned about how wecould make the soft tissue
integration and all of that.
No one was ever thinking aboutanything remotely near metal
hypersensitivity.
And the first time I startedactually thinking about hang on
the quality of the product wasin another podcast I did a year

(06:11):
ago with Dirk Dudek from theClean Implant Foundation and he
asked me to be an ambassador forthis organization about seven
years ago and the first time heeven mentioned the concept.
It's like what the hell are youtalking about?
So you know, because everybodyknows these implants are
sterilized with gamma radiationbut they're not always clean.

(06:31):
So during the packaging process,surface contaminants, plastic,
organic, inorganic leftovermetal from the you know
detergents, all this stuff fromthe manufacturing process and
the doctor or surgeon is theydon't know about this.
You know we have to trust theindustry that this is is good,
right, and here we are puttingthis with the best of intentions

(06:53):
in our patients.
So I I got really upset thefirst time I started
understanding this.
How did you feel when youstarted understanding this stuff
as well?

Speaker 2 (07:02):
oh, I, I was the same way, I think you know, in the
mouth and the dental world Ithink you have to even have
higher standards because it'salready we already have bacteria
and all this there, and youknow we're in a quote sterile
environment in the foot andankle and other parts of the
body, but you still have to havea clean device.

(07:24):
Excuse me to get going withotherwise potential problems and
so this metal hypersensitivitything.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Honestly, I got this email from you about a year ago
and I read the email very politeemail, very long email, very
well-structured email from you,from our mutual friend, jack
Cole I think you know thechairman of the io amt and and I
read this email and I just went, oh my god.
And so I really want you tostart sharing, you know, your

(07:53):
slides and your deck with uh,with the people that are going
to watch and listen to this.
Uh, and just a word of cautionto all surgeons using metal and
titanium.
This doesn't affect everybody.
All right, it's not aneverybody problem, but if you
know so, there's no fearmongering going on here.
But for those patients that dohave a lot of health issues that

(08:16):
no one's figuring out, thiscould be that hidden or missing
link that no one's reallyconnected.
Would you agree with thatstatement?

Speaker 2 (08:30):
I would totally agree with that, and I think we have
to be metal aware, we have tounderstand the potential issues
with metal and no, it's noteverybody by any means, but
there are certain individualsthat are definitely affected
quite severely in some cases.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
That's what I want, I mean, look, I've always had,
you know, friends that can'thandle, let's say, any type of
metal earring.
They can only have specificgold earrings, otherwise their
ear flares up.
Or those girls that want tohave the piercing in their belly
and they get these masks.
Some do, some don't.
You know, the large majoritydon't, but some really do,
because there's no test for this.

(09:02):
Obviously we don't test ourpatients for metal
hypersensitivities.
Luckily, at the white clinic wehave been for almost a decade
now.
But listen, um, let's get intoit.
Um, okay, just I.
I would liken it also to thisyou know, I'm 52.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
Uh, you're probably the same age as me, I'm 62, but
uh, but got a few years when Iwas a kid man, no one ever heard
about gluten intolerance, right?

Speaker 1 (09:29):
No one was ever gluten, I mean, it wasn't a word
.
I think the first time I heardthe word gluten I must have been
in my 30s.
To say what.
There's a whole food industryaround now the gluten intolerant
and the non gluten and dairyfree and all of that because
people have become aware thatcertain foods are bad for them
and I would liken metalhypersensitivity to that

(09:50):
discussion.
But at point of care, nosurgeon is asking the body if
it's hypersensitive or not.
Would you agree to that?

Speaker 2 (09:58):
I would agree with that.
A quick note on the gluten andeverything too with some of the
breads and other things is thata bunch of these breads have soy
in them and soy is high innickel.
So you have to look.
It may not just be gluten, itcan be a nickel allergy that,
like I have.
I have this and I.
There's only a certain fewbreads that I will want to eat,

(10:21):
because I will have issues and Iwas kind of sinus issues.
That is unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
You know that I will want to eat because I will have
issues and I'm kind of sinusissues draining.
That is unbelievable.
You know I stopped usingdeodorant with aluminum.
The Americans say it already 25years ago.
I was aware of that problem.
But yeah, metal in food Ihadn't thought about that one,
so listen.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Scott, oh, it's very, very big.
I mean that's a whole notherdiscussion.

Speaker 1 (10:44):
That's honestly, it's very, very big.
I mean, that's a whole notherdiscussion.
That's scary.
It is scary.
So let's, let's get started.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
I think it's you know , I'll jump in every now and
again, but please do share yourdeck with us, because I was
blown away by your lecture inIstanbul, and I think more
people and, like I said, I justhad a meeting with our corrosion
engineer professor we'reworking with up in Canada and
just some new data just came outyesterday with some of these

(11:11):
electron microscope picturesthat we have and this type of
thing, and so it's very excitingfinding these things out and
also related to mercury andamalgam and that type of thing
too.
So let me share my deck andthen we will get going, and so
I'll kind of go through thisbriefly here, and this is just

(11:33):
me and the presentation that Ipresented down in Istanbul and
this is some of the hardware I'mtalking about.
You know, these can be veryintricate cases.
A lot of metal I put on mypatients over the years.
These can be very intricatecases.
A lot of metal I put on mypatients over the years and
surgeries are very long 30 plusyears.
We talked about thousands ofmetallic implants.
And then a couple of decadesago I started having an

(11:54):
awareness, like you were talkingabout, as far as some of these
things, and I was havingpatients come back 15, 20 years
later to have metal removed withsignificant changes after I
removed the metal.
So I gave that more of anoption to my patients about 10
years ago, say, hey, you know,we put this metal in, it's there
for temporary.
In Europe they use it fortemporary fracture fixation.

(12:15):
In the US we just kind of putit in and you know it stays in
because it takes time to get itout and patients, you know, are
busy with life.
And so I said you know myrecommendation, you know you
don't have to.
You can do what you want, butmy recommendation get it out
after the bone's healed.
We don't need it anymore.
It's just sitting there.
Potentially you can develop areaction as time goes on, as
years go on.
So I removed over a thousandmetallic implants and over 400

(12:37):
patients in the last 10 years ofmy career, multiple
presentations and then, excuseme, istanbul this year.
But what I'm presenting is causeand effect and essentially
where I place the metal implantsand these were almost all
placed by me and then thesecertain symptoms develop.

(13:00):
The question is you have toknow the right questions to ask,
and that's what I didn't knowand that's what I've been
learning over the years andthat's what I think a lot of
physicians and dentists and allthis don't know.
What questions do you ask?
It's not just local, it'ssystemic and is, I think, a much
higher likelihood of havingsystemic issues than local

(13:20):
issues, potentially, you know,depending on the implants
involved.
So then I removed the implantsand symptoms then improved or
resolved and the last vastmajority of time these symptoms
have resolved.
So, and you know, localswelling rashes, electrical
sensations in the areas, thattype of thing, erosion of bone
around implants, which can be,you know, we're worried about,

(13:42):
especially in the titanium realm, there in the dental implants,
and this was just from twostainless steel screws in the
foot and she was allergic tonickel.
And this rash resolved afterremoval of those.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
So again, systemic these kind of patients have.
Sorry, do these kind ofpatients also have stuff in
their mouths, metal in theirmouths, and do you?

Speaker 2 (14:04):
Actually the majority of them did.
You know, when I started askingthe questions and me, being a
foot and ankle surgeon, startingto ask patients about, you know
, dental metals and that type ofthing, you know, some of the
docs thought I was kind of crazy.
But guess what?
You know?
My recommendation is that'swhat we need to do because, as
you'll see in this presentation,we can get potential
interactions or potentials.

(14:24):
There's potential differencesbetween these metals in the foot
and the mouth that I'll showand I don't think we figured
everything out.
You know what it does at thispoint, but it's there and with
dramatic improvement after thesemetals are removed.
So it's definitely something weneed to look further at here.
They're at here.
So some of the things that I'vehad, you know muscle spasms

(14:44):
throughout the body,fibromyalgia type symptoms,
severe fatigue, joint painsthroughout the body, headaches,
migraines, emotional health,suicidal type ideations with a
number of these patients thatdon't feel they're listened to
by their doctors, and thenthey're having problems.
And it all started after thismetal is placed in, whether it's
in the mouth or in the rest ofthe body, gi issues, IBS,

(15:08):
diarrhea, other types of things,and this can exacerbate any
type of rheumatologicalcondition.
I've seen it exacerbate whereI've then removed the metal and
the swelling and the pain in thehands went away.
You know, within a week afterme removing the metal down in
the foot or ankle, paralysisissues we'll talk about full
body paralysis and then nervesymptoms radiate, radiating

(15:30):
throughout the body and thenreactions of pain of in our
reaction between metals, like Iput in the foot and the ankle,
and then let's say, a back.
One patient had titanium backhardware from a fusion and you
know chronic pain since thatsurgery.
Then it was actuallyexacerbated after she had a
total knee with titanium in itand then I removed the stainless

(15:52):
steel, which is a dissimilarmetal, from the foot and her
back pain completely resolvedand she had it for a number of
years since that surgery.
And so that's what we have toreally look at.
And actually it was uh, uh,vera Stetskal over, uh, you know
the immunotoxicologist whoactually invented the Melisa
test.
She's from Sweden, but she wasthe first one to tell me about
that, you know, 10, 15 years ago.

(16:14):
And then I started looking and,sure enough, cause, they'd
removed dental metals and painassociated with a total hip or
knee resolved.
And uh, so that was quiteimpressive.
Quite impressive to me andbecause the orthopedic surgeon
said hey, everything's fine withthe knee and hip, there's no
problems here that we can see onx-ray.

(16:35):
And then they removed thedental metals and that pain went
away.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
So I think that needs to be that's oral galvanism,
right.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
Well, potentially, that's.
My feeling is, yes, that we arehaving some type of electrical
potential or electrical current,potentially, and that's what
we're trying to prove with theengineers here that go through
the body, but something'sobviously happening.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
And I don't think we are made of energy, right?
The difference between an aliveand an unalive human is
electricity.
It's energy, right, thedifference between an alive and
an unalive human is electricity.
It's energy, right.
It's literally electric current.
So we know that water is highlyconducive to electrical

(17:19):
currents, right?
That's why if there's anelectrical wire going in a
puddle and you step in thatpuddle, you can get electrocuted
because it can transmit thevoltage.
So if we are 90% or 80-somethingpercent water, it's a
no-brainer to know that if wehave an electric current going
through in some people thatmight be exacerbated if we've

(17:39):
got these metal rods in our body.
I mean again, we need to figureout how metal rods in our body
I mean again it's we need tofigure out how, because you know
this, I think, more thananything before you continue,
here is yeah, what breaks myheart here, scott, is the amount

(18:00):
of people that their doctorsare like.
You know, they go all thesesymptoms and they're like, oh,
but my work is fine.
I know, because I've done it,you've done it.
You know it's like.
You know your problem is a rashin the skin.
Go see a dermatologist, becauseit's nowhere near the root cause
of the problem?
Right, because the body how?
We forgot to see the body inits entirety.
You know that integrativeconcept of looking at this and
these people are desperate, andI've seen results like this

(18:23):
myself.
I really have, and that's why Iknow how important this is.
So please keep on going, myfriend.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yes, yes.
Well, on that point, I had arheumatologist that I'd already
been working with and I didn'teven know.
This patient of mine that I didsurgery on had a rash on her
abdomen similar to what thisother patient I just showed you.
She had a rash there, and soshe said she was talking to me,
well, when did this come up?
And he had, you know, he hadthe foresight to ask about the
surgery and oh, oh, and you'rehaving that metal removed.

(18:50):
Okay, let's just wait tillafter you have Dr Schroeder
remove that metal.
That rash was gone in a week.
By the time I saw her back fivedays for her first post-op, the
rash was gone.
I've had one and she didn't tellme about it until the recovery
room.
She goes oh yeah, I had thisrash, you know, and it was gone.
So, yes, exactly that.
And we see this all the timewith patients, with doctors,

(19:13):
just kind of say my work is fine, that's why I brought that up,
and it is, the work is fine, thedoctor did not do anything
wrong it creates, that's, itDidn't do anything wrong,
because what it does is itcreates an existential threat to
this entire community.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
I mean, I placed thousands, if not tens of
thousands, of titanium implantsand I'm very proud of that work.
And 99 of those patients ofwhat I wouldn't say 99, but
let's say the great majority ofthe patients still have those,
those structures in their mouthand they're fine and they're
healthy and they're good.
You know and it's, but theproblem is it's.

(19:49):
We need, you know, medicinesand constant evolution.
We need to be curious, we needto ask questions.
There's more people sick thanever before.
We see this, chronic illnesseson the rise.
I mean I think you saw in my,my lecture, I'm asking people to
stand up that have autoimmunedisease, cancer or unexplained
symptoms.
I mean, almost everybody's gotsomething going on.

(20:10):
I'm not saying this iseverything, but it's definitely
one of the things that I thinkis missing.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Well, exactly, and that's what we're just getting
into now.
Here was a paper put out by theFDA September 2019, discussing
all the different issues thatcan be associated with metals.
And you look on the side andthere's cardiomyopathy and
headaches, psychiatric symptoms,GI symptoms Parkinson's

(20:46):
parkinson's.
Yeah, oh yeah, exactly all allof this.
And what actually is a betterpaper that this in, and this is
149 page paper, but the bestthing is just to read these
tables, you know, but even even,I think, even more concise than
this, and this, you know, goesinto a lot of different stuff
but this particular paper, theroad back one.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
just go back one side .
Look at at that Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
Titanium, aluminum, hepatic yeah hepatic dysfunction
, anemia, encephalitis,association with Alzheimer's.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah, exactly Right.
Can I just ask you one quickquestion, moving forward, your
titanium, the titanium platesthat orthopedic surgeons use, is
it grade four or grade fivetitanium?
Do you know?
Is there a difference?

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Well, it's an alloy, so it's titanium 6AL4V, so it's
6% aluminum, 4% vanadium,vanadium.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
So that's what's happening in there.
So in dental implants you'vegot pure titanium, which is
grade four, with no alloys.
It's a bit softer, uh, which isthe gold standard, let's say.
And then, uh, about 15 yearsago they started doing exactly
the same thing to make themstronger by adding aluminum and
vanadium this.
So we've now technically gotthree different types of metal

(22:07):
in one implant, plus the surfaceprep, plus a huge amount of
them aren't clean, according tothe Clean Implant Foundation.
And then you've got replicascrews.
Most clinics they try and avoidthe hefty costs of the abutments
, so they buy replica abutmentsand replica screws.

(22:28):
I mean, the industry hates this, nobody likes to admit it.
But instead of having, let'ssay, the real branded, they buy
a cheaper material for the labcomponents to save money.
It's a big part of the industry.
Some are good but some are lessgood.
There's very little oversightinto that.
So you'll have multiple metalsin a big reconstructive case.

(22:51):
And you were saying earlier,that study we're doing with the
engineers, that the problem waswith the interface of the
abutment and the implant, andthat could be because the
quality of the abutment isn'tthe same as the quality of the
titanium.
But yep, people think they havetitanium, but they also have
aluminum and vanadium.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
That was the punch line oh well, and and not only
that, as you'll see, um, youknow, because when we start
breaking these things downengineering wise, with the icpms
, which is indexically coupledplasma mass spectrometry, you
can break the metals down.
And that's what we're doingwith five samples we just had
yesterday.
We'll cut off a piece, dissolvethat and then this particular

(23:33):
machine can break it down into athousandth percent weight.
So in one of these cases comingup, you know, the nickel was
0.013 percent nickel, but that'swhat he was allergic to and and
he had dramatic improvementafter his back hardware was
removed and he had titaniumimplants.
So but he, he had like 14 to 17different metals associated

(23:56):
with that titanium alloy.
So uh, yeah, it's, yeah, Iwould not say that.
Uh, you know, and these studieshave proven out already, that
there's multiple impurities andI spoke to the engineer
yesterday about it.
He goes well, it's just themining process.
When you mine you don't justget a vein of pure titanium,

(24:17):
it's all kinds of things, and soyou go then try to purify that
as best you can, but it's very,very, very expensive to purify
it totally, so they don't dothat.
So this titanium or aluminum orvanadium have other impurities
already in it, just from themining process.
So that's what he explained tome yesterday.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
That is interesting so it's not by design, it's just
by default.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, default, it's too expensive.
He had a zinc rod and it was afew centimeters long and it was
99.9999% pure, but it was $400to get that for one of the
studies he was doing, that forone of the studies he was doing.

(25:06):
So, yes, so that it's, and thenalso just the process of making
things you're going to have.
You know impurities associatedwith that, but I think it sounds
like the majority of them cancome just from the mining whole
mining process.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
All right, man, let's keep on going.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, ok, so this paper, yeah, so what's good
about this paper?
You know people can look it uphere, but this is out of the
National Institute ofOccupational Safety and Health
here in the United States andit's the Allergy and Clinical
Immunology Branch.
And but this, if any doc, anydoctors that have, you know,
surgeons, dentists that theyshould, anybody puts metal in

(25:39):
patients, they should have thesetables and just read the tables
.
This is another long, close to100, you know page article.
Most of it a lot of itreferences.
But just have these tables andjust read the table.
This is another long, close to100 page article.
Most of it a lot of itreferences.
But just have these tables.
And this goes through all kindsof these issues that can happen
.
Here's the geographic tongueburning mouth syndrome, all of
which I've seen, you know, orallichen planus.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
I mean all this stuff anise, I mean all this stuff.
You know, as a dentist, we andI still think today I mean the
burning mouth syndrome, theamount of people that suffer
from this that go to theirdentist and their dentist with

(26:22):
the best of their knowledge,up-to-date knowledge, will say
it's an idiopathic syndrome thatis multifactorial and there's
no known cause and no knowntreatment outside of steroids
and this or that.
You know it's today, but Iwould argue that it's, you know,
no one at school at least.

(26:43):
I might be wrong here, I don't,you know, I haven't gone into
the recent education, but Idoubt they're adding metal
hypersensitivities to one of thecauses of burning mouth
syndrome.
I don't think that that's notthe first step in the diagnostic
.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Well, in my gut feeling and in my world, that's
one of the first things thatneeds to be looked at, as well
as the electrical side of things, you know I would be excited.
I would because I've had itmultiple times in the foot.
I have metal in there titaniumspecifically, uh, or stainless
steel and it's, you know,burning in the region.
They're shooting pains fromthere, shooting pains all the
way up to the buttocks, and Iremove the metal, boom gone.

(27:24):
So, yeah, it's.
I mean there could be nerveissues, you know, but most time
it's just related to the metalthat I had in them.
Yeah so, and then we?
I mean this it goes on allergicasthma.
I've seen patients with asthmaand then I remove the metal and
then the symptoms, you know, goand here's all the same type of

(27:45):
thing.
We get into all these differentthings and you can see over on
the right rosacea, psoriasis,ulcerative colitis, irritable
bowel syndrome, lupus,rheumatoid arthritis.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
Rheumatoid arthritis.
Yeah, celiac disease, that'sthe gut, it's the skin.
Sjogren, which is, is very,very uh.
You know, students spend dental.
Students spend a lot of timestudying fibromyalgia.
I am seeing all of this ibs,irritable bowel syndrome.
Now this paper is publishedpeer-reviewed, where uh, let's

(28:20):
go back to that.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
And uh, here is the uh here Toxicology and
Environmental.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Health 2022.
From the US Kyle Roach and JRRoberts.
So the cat's out of the bag.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, this article, and I actually contacted Roach
and told her I was just soexcited about this article
because this has been a longtime coming, and she was very
gracious and all this and shespent a lot of time on this, as
you can tell.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
What's her background ?

Speaker 2 (28:58):
It's just incredible.
She's actually an immunology,you know.
So she's not a.
She's not an MD.
Yeah, I may be misspeaking, butI thought she was, you know,
into research and all this kindof stuff.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
So that's even so.
From an immunologicalperspective, that's okay.
I'm very pleased to see thisarticle.
I didn't know it was out there.
Amazing.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
All right, this needs to be in every doctor's office.
I agree, 100%, I agree 100%.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
I agree 100%.
And look just for dentalimplant specialists out there.
For the last 30 years 20 years,let's say the average failure
rate for dental implantsglobally almost inexplicably,
has been between 5% to 7%.
All right, like you do theright thing and that implant

(29:48):
fails, okay, what if this isbehind it, that those you know
let's say so.
If it's, let's say if it's 5%,that means that 95 can tolerate
it.
They develop other symptoms,but 5% vehemently reject it.
But we're trained to think thatthere's no way you can't reject
titanium because it's abiocompatible material, et

(30:10):
cetera, et cetera.
But what if this is?
But that's what we're trainedto.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
I mean, we only know what we know it is more
biocompatible than othermaterials, that's a better way
to state that I spoke yeah,because that's what I've been
hearing for years oh, titanium'sinert, titanium's inert.
Well, I spoke to the engineersthat work with titanium all the
time and I told them that I go,the doctors have been told that

(30:36):
titanium is inert.
And they go, what Titanium isnot inert, especially when it's
placed in the body andelectrolytic solution, you know
and you were talking about waterearlier well, just add salt and
everything else to it.
You know, chloride is verycorrosive.
And so he could not believe.
They were told that titaniumwas inert and, okay, more

(30:59):
biocompatible, not biocompatible.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
I would argue, then, that from because I'm always
trying to find appeasement onboth sides of the fence.
You see, I'm a dental surgeon.
I love my brothers and sistersout there that have.
You know, everyone comes to thetable trying to help their

(31:22):
patients get their smile back,their health, their function.
You know, some do a better job,some don't, some are, you know,
but at the end of the day, theindustry is really just trying
to help people and we depend onthe manufacturers and the
universities to teach us to.
You know, there has to be ameasure of trust in the game,
right, and you know there's alot of people that don't have an

(31:45):
interest in this informationcoming out.
Right, but let's just say, forexample, that if the 5% failure
rate of implants is associatedto this I don't know, we'd have
to prove that, obviously, but itcould be then there should be
an interest in at least testingprior to placement, because when
implants fail, it's very costlyto the clinician, it's very

(32:08):
costly to the clinic.
Even that 5%, it's notnegligible.
So like, for example, the ITI,which is a very big study group,
they said that in Germany in2022, 1.2 million implants were
placed in Germany alone with a5% failure rate, that's roughly
75,000 to 80,000 implants thatfailed.

(32:31):
That's a big number for thedental economy it's not
negligible and somebody had tofoot the bill right the patient.
It's horrible.
You have to go through thewhole process again.
A large amount of those had tohave bone grafts to get it done.
They had temporary teeth.
You can't chew aestheticalissues, emotional issues.
Some people got sued, whatever.

(32:51):
It's a huge amount of stress.
What if they read this paper,understood that maybe they
should test their patients priorto engaging and be a little bit
more successful?
I mean, I'm just saying thatcould be the beginning of a good
argument to go where it hurts,which is that failure rate which
some people just can't seem toexplain.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Right, right, well, I agree, I think that is one
thing you know.
As far as that goes andactually this leads right into
this, you know five ways metalscan react negatively in the body
.
I changed that really to sixnow.
But physical or just improperplacement, impingement, what
have you?
Infection?
We always got to rule that out.
But then toxicity fromexcessive metal, ion release

(33:33):
from wear and tear and orcorrosion, okay, but then, yes,
we're dealing potentially withallergy or hypersensitivity.
So that's another thing in that, that is one thing that can be
tested for and ahead of time,and I I we definitely need, in
my opinion.
If I have a my spouse or childor parent is going to have a

(33:54):
total knee or hip that'ssupposed to be in the rest of
their life, do I have a myspouse or child or parent is
going to have a total knee orhip that's supposed to be in the
rest of their life, do I wantthem tested prior to that and
for metal hypersensitivity, sowe know what they're allergic to
prior to this big procedure.
And I think it goes hand inhand, probably, with what you're
talking about too.
If this dental implant issupposed to be placed the rest
of their life, should they betested prior to make sure
they're not allergic to one ofthe metals associated with that.

(34:15):
And then we're looking at thegalvanic electrical type
reactions that we'll be talkingabout here in a second.
And then the other one is EMFand you know I've just been
seeing too many cases latelycoming out with reversal of
things, like one of theprofessors that I was working
with.
She couldn't hold her cellphone up to her ear, her face

(34:36):
would go numb and she had thesedifferent dental metals Actually
we'll show some of these comingup and after she got all that
out she can hold her cell phoneup to her ear now without her
face going numb.
So you know, something'shappening there and I don't
think we have a total handle onit.
And I've just been working witha bunch of, you know, different
docs and corrosion engineersand dentists and everything
around the world here.

(34:58):
This particular I try to runthrough this one pretty quick,
but this is just a stiff personsyndrome.
This patient I operated on himput some stainless steel screws
in his feet and he ended up withparalysis.
That and these are just thescrews, the small screws in his
feet, but he had paralysis up to10 hours a day where he could

(35:19):
breathe but he could not talkand could not move, and he was
an engineer, actually, and hedidn't realize that it came on
three months after the surgery,so he didn't realize it was
associated with the surgery.
I didn't know because he hadleft the practice because
everything healed up and hedidn't have the symptoms prior
to me doing't know because hehad left the practice because
everything healed up and hedidn't have the symptoms prior
to Be doing the surgery that hesaid that he had.
Then he came back and he hisbig toe started having a problem

(35:40):
.
So I had to, you know, and thatstarted curling.
I was gonna have to fuse partof the big toe and but I noticed
all the swelling around thesescrews and they go.
Well, you know, I'm not surewhat's going on here, but we
don't need those screws.
The bones healed.
Let's get rid of these.
You may be allergic to nickeland I used titanium in the big
toe.
Ultimately, I had titanium orproblems with the titanium.
I had to remove that too.

(36:01):
And he had seen all kinds ofpeople University of Washington
Mayo Clinic and they just saidsorry, you'll just probably be
in a wheelchair the rest of yourlife and this gentleman that
started in his forties and hesaid your wife will have to put
you in a nursing home after awhile because she won't be able
to take care of you.
And so I removed the screws andput titanium in, but also

(36:23):
remove those stainless steelscrews.
He went from being paralyzed 10hours a day to three hours a day
overnight.
So he goes, something's goingon here.
So then we sent his blood offfor meliza testing.
He was a positive for a nickel,as well as highly, highly
positive for palladium.
Well, you, being a dentist,would know where that could be.

(36:44):
And uh, but I had no clue.
And so you know I'm looking ata palladium, you know.
And well, his gold crowns.
He had two gold crowns and hehad some amalgam fillings and
his gold crowns were 26%palladium.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
So he worked with his dentist.
What's that?
Just for people that aren'tthat specific.
You know, when you have a goldcrown, it's not always pure gold
, right?
So there's alloys can be alloysto make it a bit softer and
malleable, and one of thosecould be palladium.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
Or or or, you know stronger.
You want it stronger, right?
Sure, yeah, yeah, and yeah.
So in his particular one hadhis palladium, and so he ended
up, the day he got his last goldcrown, he got all of his
amalgam out.
He also had an ACL repair inhis knee and had a titanium
screw in there.
The day he got all of hisamalgam out, he also had an acl

(37:36):
repair in his knee and had atitanium screw in there.
The day he got his last goldcrown out, he hasn't been
paralyzed since.
Wow, uh, and I've speaking tohim for a number of years now
and he's still, you know, noparalysis.
And that was the first casethat really, you know, directed
me from the foot to the mouth,and then I really started paying
attention after that, and so,and here are the small screws in
front there, those are the onesthat paralyze them, you know,

(37:58):
and there's, that's the.
ACL repair screw.
What's that?
What's that big screw?
That's the ACL titanium screw.
So they have the.
They replace the ligament andthen they use that kind of as an
interference screw to screwdown in and then the ligament
heals into.
Then they use that kind of asan interference screw to screw
down in and then the ligamentheals into the bone and you
don't need to screw anymore.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
The smaller ones are made of what?

Speaker 2 (38:21):
those are stainless steel.
Okay, so he and they were about.
You know, stainless steel isanywhere from you know, in the
14 to 16 percent range of nickel, and he was allergic to nickel,
got it.
Yeah, you could see the ring onhis hand right this guy's not
metal yeah, so, and he had to becareful of what he ate and

(38:44):
everything also, you know.
So, uh, this was just a teacher.
I don't know if you want me togo into some of the voice memos
I have or not.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
I think, leave one for our listeners.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
Okay, and so you do want one for the listeners.
Huh.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
Well, let's.
Yeah, there's actually somecoming up.
This was this actually can be.
This one's a pretty impressiveone, because this goes directly
between the foot and the mouthalso.
And so I'd seen her.
She had stainless steel screwsin her feet when she was 16.
And then I had to do some otherwork and notice, like you were
talking about that's one of thefirst thing is the earrings.

(39:26):
You know she had problems withearrings.
You go oh well, most likelyyou're allergic to nickel, so
let's, don't use stainless.
I'll take those stainless steelscrews out.
We use titanium, we did.
She did fine.
Then she came back and I saidyou know, come back if you have
any problems with these screws.
So she comes back later.
Oh yeah, these screws aregiving me problems.
Can you get them out?
Sure.
And then I looked I'm doing thepre-op and I'm looking at all
our medications, all these hugelist of medications.

(39:48):
I go what's going on?
And she goes oh, those are frommy fibromyalgia.
Well, how long have you hadfibromyalgia?
Well, about you know, two years.
And I go what else you got?
She goes oh, I got the severefatigue.
I'm a teacher, I'll send thekids out for recess and I'll
sleep under the desk and I'mgoing well, how long have you
had that?
She goes, oh, about two years.
They go you have any othermetal?

(40:10):
And she goes, nope, never had acavity, you know.
And she goes, oh, but I havethis, you know, bar behind my
teeth.
I go, oh, you had braces.
I go when'd you get braces?
She goes, oh, about two yearsago.
I go check with yourorthodontist when you get your
braces.
So she goes in, calls him backlater that day.
Oh, my God, I got this.
I got my braces in August, andbeginning of September is when I

(40:30):
started having these severefatigue symptoms and the
fibromyalgia came on.
And so, anyway, we go and we goand get the screws out of her
feet.
Okay, and this actually Ipresented to the FDA back in
2019.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
I presented this particular case and so let's go
ahead and we will listen to herand you can hear her story
around 2016, beginning of,you're having some symptoms with
a screw, so we decided to getit out, and then we realized you

(41:08):
were having a number ofdifferent symptoms, some
fibromyalgia type symptoms.
You were diagnosed with somechronic fatigue and we decided
to get you metal tested, foundout you were allergic to
titanium dioxide and nickel andvanadium, both of which titanium
dioxide and vanadium were thentitanium in your foot, so we
decided to get that out.

(41:29):
Also, you had a stainless steelbar with 15 nickel behind your
lower teeth.
So what happened after we gotthe titanium plate out of our
titanium screws out of your foot?

Speaker 4 (41:42):
so, almost immediately after you took the
screws out of my feet, I noticedthat, um, almost all of my body
pain and my migraine symptomshad gone away and within a of
weeks, actually, all of myrosacea had cleared.
Um, so I was able to stop mostof my medicines within a month.
I was, I think I was taking 18different medicines for

(42:03):
fibromyalgia at that point, um,and then, shortly after that, I
made an appointment to take thethe bar out from my teeth, and
since then I um don't take farout from my teeth, and since
then I take one pill a day formy migraines and that's it.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Okay, thanks.
So what do you think about thatUnbelievable and probably the
migraines could be causedbecause there's a lot of
evidence that shows when you doorthodontics without controlling
the occlusion you can offsetthe TMJ because basically you
create a premature contact andthat can create tension
headaches.
So she might just need somecalibration of her occlusion and
she'll be fine to go.
But oh my God, that'sunbelievable, dramatic.

(42:47):
People dentists are going tofreak out when they hear this
right Now.
As you know, I run a practice.
I have thousands of patientsthat have metal bars in their
mouths with no problems, allright, so no visible complaints

(43:11):
and in their medical chartthey're not taking any
medication, they're healthythey're active, they don't have
rosacea, so how do you explainthat?

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Yeah, well, I think, again, you have to be know what
questions to ask.
You know, okay, and you're youhave to look at the whole big
picture.
We can't just focus on onelittle thing.
You know, let's put an anklesurgeon.
That's what I was doing.
I was looking at the foot andankle and, okay, yeah, they have
headaches and they havefibromyalgia and neck pain.
But hey, that's not me, right?
But what I'm saying is it couldbe me, or at least, coming from

(43:48):
the work I did, I need to askthe right questions and then you
really need the proper history.
When did these things come on?
You know, like all her symptomscame on after she had her
braces, look, you know.
But then that vast majoritywent away when I removed the
titanium from the foot.
That's very telling to me.
You know that, hey, there's aproblem going on between these

(44:09):
two.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Somehow look, I mean I've, I've, like I said I've.
I started seeing this about adecade ago.
Um, I would argue that you knowit's.
You're completely right withwhat you say.
I have done the metal removalof some of my patients that have
desperately, uh, been tryingeverything and seen immediate

(44:35):
results, like you.
I had one guy.
He had really bad eczema allover his skin, under his armpits
and after removal of the metal,because we did the tests and
all of that within two hours ofthe surgery.
The redness went away about 80%within two hours, like I was

(44:58):
still suturing and he wasalready having improvements and
he was a redhead.
Now my mother's a redhead andwe all, you know.
I don't know if there'sanything to do with that, but
some people are more sensitiveto this than to others, but that
doesn't mean that it doesn'taffect everybody.
So I guess my question is doyou think metal's bad for

(45:19):
everybody?

Speaker 2 (45:22):
You know that's the question.
I don't know.
I don't think so, as far as youknow what I've seen in my
patients, because I've had thesame thing I've had.
You know patients and I'veasked questions later.
You know about patients whenthey come back in for something
else oh, you have any problemswith that foot, and then you
know the heart, the surgery wedid, any other symptoms in your
body?
No, no, no, no, no.

(45:42):
So no, I do not believe it'severybody, by any means.
Why and I don't think we havethat question answered Totally,
I think do we need to study that?

Speaker 1 (45:53):
Yeah, and because it's going to only help people,
I think right now we just needto have a high index of
suspicion and awareness aroundthis topic, because you know, I
think most folks that are in thehealthcare sector really truly,
genuinely want to help theirpatients heal, right.
I mean, a huge part of theindustry has gone into the

(46:15):
financial aspect of things.
I understand that, but you know, most surgeons are good people
and they're like you know, theywant to help their patients.
I mean, you know if you'restill in the game, I guess so
what we're doing is we're justadding an extra tool, an extra
tool of to help at least thinkwell, hang on, if you've got

(46:39):
that and you have that, maybe itcould be this, you know, and if
you get it out, I mean, there'sno, you don't need a metal wire
.
It's easy, it guarantees.
But you can always have a, aretainer at night, a metal free.
Thanks to 3d printing, you canhave metal-free retainers for
your aligners.
You don't, you know?
For orthodontics, we havealternative to titanium.

(47:01):
We have ceramic, zirconia,ceramic implants.
So there are alternatives.
We stopped using gold indentistry many, many years ago
for composite and high qualityceramics.
So I went metal free as adentist in 2006 in my
prosthodontic cases.
You know pretty much metal.
Naturally, we still usetitanium bars and titanium

(47:25):
implants, but we do test ourpatients and we always use
mostly use grade four titanium,so alloy free when we do and, of
course, clean implant certified.
But this makes me obviously andsince I saw your lecture, we
always ask do you have metalplates in your body before we go

(47:48):
ahead and place another implantin the mouth.
So let's say a patient's got nometal in their mouth, I always
ask do you have any metal inyour body?
Exactly because of the slide,because it can create a current.
So talk about this a little bit.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
So, yeah, so that's where we're going into.
Oh, just one point on that.
I was just talking to a dentistabout, you know, because I was
concerned about the stainlesssteel bars, because all three of
my daughters had those and twoof them had significant
reactions that we didn't evenknow were associated with that.
One was IBS type thing and theother was a rash.
You know that both that therash resolved within three days

(48:25):
after removal.
But he talked about Kevlar.
You know, the lingual barspotentially, you know, just have
made out of Kevlar typematerial instead of having to
use the stainless steel probablymore expensive, I don't know,
but there's one way topotentially avoid that.
Um, yeah, yeah, um.
So here we go into the positive.

(48:45):
You know, uh, you know there's,there's all.
All of these metals have theirunique charges to them.
You look at the periodic table,okay, and the more positive
metal is more of a cathode andmore negative metal more of the
anode, and it's going to be theanode metal is going to be the
one that's going to corrodefaster.
The least noble metal is theone that's, and then the more

(49:06):
the positive metal or the morenoble metal is more protective
and all metals in the body willcorrode, just period it's, you
know there's it's going to, it'sthe rate at which it corrodes
and it may take a long time.
But this is where I'm concerned, that some of this may be
accelerated.
You know, if we have some ofthis type of galvanic reaction
going on and if we do, you know,it's basically a battery type

(49:29):
reaction between dissimilarmetals in the body.
We have the cathode and theelectrode.
In the middle are the bodyfluids and the anode, and so
that can create a battery.
And then we look at the bodyand we go okay, here is an
action potential of a nerve, theresting state is minus 70
millivolts and this nerve willfire off at minus 55 millivolts.
And we don't know how thisexactly relates to what I'm

(49:51):
gonna present to you, but thisjust tells you.
Hey, we have electrical thingsgoing on in the body.
And then, like you talked aboutearlier, how much of the body's
function involves electricalimpulses, you know, or chemical,
electrical, pretty much thevast majority, right?

Speaker 1 (50:10):
unbelievable.
Um, yeah, yeah, you know, I Itold you about this.
Yeah, this is, this isUnbelievable.
Yeah, you know, tell me aboutthis.
Yeah, this is what I want to.
This is what you sent me.
That really yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
So this is where I actually, when I presented the
FDA, I did a similar type one.
I redid this for thispresentation and came up
essentially with the same thing.
But I wanted to.
I was thinking I was having aproblem between the foot and the
mouth.
So I go, how can I try to provethis scientifically?
You know, because I'm like you,I want the, I want the science
behind everything.
So I went to my neurologistfriend who does a lot of
diagnostic testing and I saidhey, can I use some of your
equipment to test this?

(50:47):
He goes, well, actually, what'sgoing to be better is you get a
high quality voltmetermultimeter and then use
ultrasound gel, because I wantedto test titanium, like titanium
plates and stainless steelscrews, or what have you against
each other to see if I'm seeingsome.
You know potential differencesbetween them.
So here's a titanium plate onthe right, stainless steel screw
on the left, and here we are at151 millivolts between the two

(51:11):
and I'm going, whoa, okay.
And and again, I don't know howit relates to the, how the
actual potential of a nervefires off, you know, with just
really about a 15 millivoltchange.
But here's a potential betweenthese two and so I go.
Well, I think I'm having aproblem six feet away.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
So actually, in the FDA presentation I presented,
the girl the hot wheel in theFDA presentation.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
I presented the girl with hot wheels.
Okay, you got to be thinkingoutside the box a little bit,
right, I love this.
And so, and it's still 68millivolts, that's not
insignificant.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
That's enough to disrupt cellular activity.
I mean it is.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
You know that's what we got to figure out, totally.
You know, and you know,especially when you're up in a
lot of these that I'm seeing, asyou'll see here, you know, in
the body.
Well, when I presented the FDA,a group of us were talking and
somebody said, boy, we shouldfigure out how to do this in
vivo.
And I go, I think I can do that.
And so, because I have my ownsurgery center, a group of us
were talking and somebody said,boy, we should figure out how to

(52:16):
do this in vivo.
And I go, I think I can do that.
And so, cause I have my ownsurgery center, and so I went
ahead and I just had to figureout a way to get a sterile probe
for the foot.
And I just used a cautery probethat we use all the time, cut
off the end that can hook intothe volt meter, and then we were
good to go and we can sterilizethe other end.
So here was a lingual bar, okay,and then titanium.
I had titanium plate and screws.
So anybody watching just becareful.

(52:38):
These are some graphic signs ofsurgery here.
So just be careful if you're alittle queasy.
But this titanium that I had inthe foot prior to removal, and
so minus 158 millivolts from thefoot all the way to the mouth.
And the positive negativedoesn't?
It just depends on where youhave the positive probe negative

(53:01):
probe and that's from a lingualbar for orthodontic.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Just the bar that the orthodontist place after
orthodontic treatment.
Correct, correct.
So that bar is not in the bone,it's not in the bone, it's not
under the gum, it's literallyjust against the back of the
teeth.
Correct With saliva.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
Yes, everybody's saliva around Right.
So then I removed the plate andscrews and then I go to bone or
the soft tissues, you know, andit was 35 mill millivolts.
So we had a difference of 193millivolts.
That's significant difference.
That's what I believe.
So in some of the studies outof russia this is sorry to

(53:44):
interrupt.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
There's something that's freaking me out because
there's a huge part of thepopulation uh, these people
would be mostly between the agesof 55 to 85 that have partial
dentures, that have a chrome,cobalt infrastructure, metal,

(54:08):
acrylic, partial dentures withthese metal clasps, partial
dentures with these metal clasps.
So my concern was alwaysstructures that were under the
gum, in the bone, you know,because there's an implant
surgeon, or fillings inside theteeth right or crowns and stuff.
I hadn't really thought aboutthis.
So the amount of people thathave these external
prosthodontics like removablepartials with a huge amount of

(54:32):
metal alloys in them, thatprobably also have.
So it affects if it's just inthe saliva, oh my God.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Well, that's saliva and blood and interstitial
fluids are all the electrolytes,right?

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Huge part of the population, scott.
Huge part of the population,yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
They're huge.
Yeah, and I was talking to oneof the engineers corrosion
engineers that actually workwith body, with, you know, some
of the orthopedic appliances,metals and that type of thing.
He goes, yeah, you know, thenyou have a reaction between the
mouth and the foot, plus thenthe total knee and you know.
So you have all these differentreactions potentially going on,

(55:11):
right.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
And no one's asking that question when you.
Because, as you saw, you knowmy lecture the doctors and
dentists just don't speak.
So the likelihood that anorthopedic surgeon and a dental
surgeon ever speak on stage orever share the same room is
almost zero.
Um, you know, that's why I'mloving speaking to you.
You're an orthopedic, so we dothe same thing.
Just somehow, magically, themouth isn't part of the body,

(55:35):
you know.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
So uh that's exactly why I came to meet with uh jack
call and others.
You know he was the one thatasked me to present to the fda.
You know, their, their group.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
They're bored very grateful for this scott keep on
going.
I love, love this.
Keep on going.
I'm scared.
I'm scared of what I see hereis gold, gold.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
Yeah, gold to titanium and gold.
You know one of the more nobleright?
Well, here it is.
So here's to titanium, right,and a screw in the toe 340
millivolts, 340 millivolts, andthen so I take the, the screw
out of the foot, go to the bone,minus 37, so a 300 millivolt

(56:15):
change.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
And that was very consistent what I saw with gold
and the patient's number ofthese are like the one in the
voice note.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
Just like my symptoms improved dramatically overnight
, kind of not not everybody, notI mean that particular, this
particular gal's how swollenthose two toes are versus the
third toe right.
So I took the, these titaniumscrews out of these.
By the time she came back, fivedays later, the toes look very
similar to the other one.

(56:41):
I mean, the swelling just wentdown, the redness went down,
inflammation associated withthat.
Now, that could be just fromlocalized titanium.
Is it related to the gold?
I don't know, um, but it is.
You know, we're just, we're, wegotta ask the questions, you
know, and try to, you know,figure out what's happening here
.
So, and these were just, youknow, she had a gold crown,

(57:02):
let's test that, you know, andsee, and some of these also have
amalgam, and so I test to that,you know.
And uh, so this is one you know, this is a recovery room nurse,
significant issues, uh, youknow, mentally and and
emotionally and all that, aswell as body pains and
everything.
But here's her titanium toamalgam, here's her amalgam.
And uh, so she was minus 154millivolts, I take, I go to bone

(57:27):
and then she's seven, so it's161 millivolt.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Change right and that's to the amount.
Amalgam has a bunch of otherthings.
So it's copper, silver, mercury, mercury.
There's three metals, right?
So?

Speaker 2 (57:44):
right, and potentially nickel and others
too.
Well, what I'll?

Speaker 1 (57:48):
what I'll have you do just because of actually with
her, with the reason sorry tointerrupt you, the reason why
amalgam fillings are sobrilliant is that they actually
corrode, and it's the corrosionthat kills bacteria, making them
last forever.
So that actually is somethingthat we study.
So they're actually designed inthe interface between the

(58:10):
filling and the tooth to leashthat corrosion that you know
that would actually.
It's part of their reason whythey last so long.
At least that's how I rememberit.
I haven't used them in 30 years, yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
Yeah Well, and we have some things coming up on
that too, but so let me justI'll have you listen on her to
some of the emotional things.

Speaker 3 (58:33):
So two weeks ago, we removed multiple titanium plates
and screws from your foot, andhow do you describe your
emotional state prior to thehardware removal.

Speaker 5 (58:43):
I was highly emotional, I was very labile, I
was depressed and cried and well, 75% of the day I was crying
and I had big, my husband's bighanky and cried myself to sleep
every night and um was so, wouldwake up in the morning and out

(59:05):
my eyes and I was so sad and itwas just hard to even carry on,
to continue to live.
And since getting the hardwareout and it was just hard to even
carry on, to continue to live.
And since getting the hardwareout, I feel brand new, I feel
alive.
I'm not.
I've never I haven't cried intwo weeks.
It makes me cry to even thinkabout that.

(59:26):
I mean I just I'm happy, okay,thanks.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
So that's some of the stuff I've seen, with these
emotional side of things, youknow, and anxiety, that type of
thing after I moved.
What are your thoughts?

Speaker 1 (59:40):
We've got millions of people taking SSRIs,
antidepressants, zolofts andXanax and all of that stuff
dealing with mental healthissues, and they might be
oblivious to this issue.
And it could be oblivious tothis issue and it could be just
cured overnight.
I mean, mental illness is amultibillion-dollar industry.
It is an industry and so manypeople suffering, leading to

(01:00:03):
suicide ideation, and it couldbe something as simple as this.
You know, dr Professor EdwardBulmore from Cambridge
University published a book in2012 called the Inflamed Mind
and basically he publishedfindings.
Actually had dinner with him alovely guy and basically, you

(01:00:26):
know, the theory was thatanxiety, depression, panic
attacks, all the way up todementia, wasn't just caused by
sadness let's put it that waybut actually by cytokine,
chemokine passing the bloodbrain barrier.
So if you have systemicinflammation, those chemokines
and cytokines pass the bloodbrain barrier, activating
microglia and disrupting brainactivity, so of course, that is

(01:00:51):
perceived as sadness anddepression and all of that stuff
.
So if you remove the root causeof the inflammation, whatever
that may be, then people getimmediately better.
So Ed's book if anybody wantsto read it, the Inflamed Mind
proves this.
So what you're seeing here is acurrent that could be causing

(01:01:12):
inflammation.
That could then be.
I don't know, we need to lookinto this bigger, but I mean wow
.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Yes, I think the current can be involved.
I also think then, because ifwe're looking at the current,
going between the two or havingan issue between the two, and we
look at the again, the positive, negatives, and the anode and
cathode, you know, like withstainless steel, 316 that we use
versus amalgam at leastaccording to a number of the

(01:01:46):
reports that I'm looking at isthat the amalgam is, the more is
the anode in this case, and sothen now that's going to get
released, more, you know, andthen into the body, and that's
my concern because a number ofthese patients I'm seeing, they
also have amalgam.
So, with the more emotionalissues, so are we then, as the
titanium, then allowing theamalgam then to be released more

(01:02:07):
readily?
It's contributing to it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
I'm just remembering right now.
I remember I had a friend about20 years ago and she didn't
want to get pregnant, she didn'twant to take the pill and she
had one of these intrauterinedevices placed and it had a coil
in it.
I don't know, I'm not agynecologist, but I remember her

(01:02:32):
.
One day she I didn't know shehad it, she was a colleague of
mine and and back in the day,many years ago, and I remember
her like just crying all thetime and like depressed she was
always a happy person, right andthen just one day, like her
mood just, and she's likeconsistently crying and sad and
depressed, and I was like youknow, what did you do?

(01:02:52):
You know, because I'm a verycurious, you know, I'm a doctor,
I'm a scientist, I'm verycurious.
And she said, have you doneanything recently, like in the
last month, you know?
And she said I had this thingdevice and then I was like and I
knew it had metal in it and Isaid, well, just, you know, take
it out.
And that just instinctive, thatwasn't.

(01:03:13):
I said, well, if you were happybefore that, take it out.
You know, and I remember her,she took it out and the week
later she was back.
She was back 100, so she musthave I've only just I haven't
thought about that in 20 years,but she probably had that to
that that they the metal allergyto the coil in the in the the
and they had many problems.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
There's one device called Escher that is night no
and it's 50% nickel and they hadsignificant problems with it.
I believe it's off the marketnow.
Uh, but yes, uh many there'scalled the bleeding edge.
Um, it's a Netflix uhdocumentary uh that discusses
this specifically and all theissues and that type of thing.
So, um, yeah, that's what I'mtalking about?

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
what do you tell somebody?
You know I've got a patient andshe came in for for checkup and
we run the metalhypersensitivity test.
You know I have done for manyyears and she's off the charts
for titanium, off the charts uhand vanadium, and yet she's had
a back accident, back injury,and she's got a bunch of pins

(01:04:16):
down her spine and like shecan't I don't know, I'm not a
spine surgeon, but basicallycan't take them out because
there's no alternative inanother product, let's say in
ceramic and or PMMA or peak orpectin or something like that.
Do you know how?

(01:04:37):
How can these people find hopeif they've got this problem?
I?

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
mean, are there, in your experience as an orthopedic
surgeon, are alternatives tometal on the rise?
Yes, I mean I've been trying towork with some of these
companies, you know, to uh seewhat else can be.
You know, I, I get paid fornothing and I never want to be
paid for any.
Like, say, some of thesecompanies will ask me to lecture
for them and I go, no, I'm notgonna do it because I compromise
myself.
But uh, uh so, but I encouragethem as far as that goes, and

(01:05:09):
fine, is a big thing.
I get uh again, I, that's not myspecialty at all.
I'm putting ankle, but metal is.
And so you know, I've had towork with and talk to spine
surgeons, neurosurgeons, aboutokay, we know that this
particular patient is allergicto, you know, metal, but that's
all I have.
And I go, okay, well, you justhave to tell them that and I

(01:05:31):
speak to the patient too, thatthat you know you may have some
symptoms during this, and shedid, and then.
But then he was able to get itout and then, you know, all the
symptoms went away and heroriginal problem was gone too.
But with some of those fusionsafter fusions, many times, if it
is a fusion, then many timesyou can get the metal out.
It just depends on where like.
If it's coming in from the backand everything's fused, then

(01:05:53):
you don't need that hardwareanymore.

Speaker 1 (01:05:56):
And we're also seeing , we're seeing in the hip
replacement, like ceramic andpolyurethane are basically
pretty much taken over, right?
You don't?
You're not, you're not placingmetal that much anymore, right?

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
Oh, no, no, no, you still, no, no, no.
Hips still have to have a metalconstruct that goes in the head
right.
To support that.
Yeah, so the head can beceramic.
And then, yeah, there's thepoly, but there's still knees.
They do have some over inEurope that are kind of total
ceramic-type knees, but theystill have to cement those, my
understanding right now.

(01:06:27):
So the total knees and hips thehips are behind the knees a
little bit, but still a vastmajority of them still can
contain some type of metal.
They're working to ceramicsmore and more, but I don't think
we're where we need to be.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
So, basically, if you can't have any, if you have the
hip, if you have the knee, ifyou have other metal, then
ideally no metal in the mouth,right, I mean if you have the
tonic health, exactly, if youhave the health issues.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
Exactly If you have chronic health issues.
Exactly, and that's what I'mseeing.
Yes, that's what I'm seeing.
Like one gal, she had titaniumhips placed.
She had all kinds of pain,problems, mental issues.
She had stainless steel in thefoot.
I removed the metal from thefoot, stainless steel, and her
hip pain dramatically improved,her emotions dramatically

(01:07:10):
improved and again, I think itwas just the reaction between
the two she could still keep thehips.
And that's where I'm sayingwith the surgeons that you know,
these patients are havingproblems, you know, and the
surgeon says, hey, the kneelooks great, the hip looks great
, look elsewhere in the body foranother metal that potentially
you could get out much easierwithout having to address the

(01:07:33):
hip or knee.
And so I mean you take out theeasiest metals first.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
That's what I always tell people about it all, right,
yeah, so uh, do you have anyany other stuff?
Okay, so what else have you gotthere?

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
yeah, so here here is , you know this.
So here's another whole part ofthis.
Then is all this corrosionright and working with the
corrosion engineers?
Like I say, I was just up thereand here was this clip, here's
the penny and here's a clip downhere.
This is a gallbladder clip andthis patient was in a wheelchair
majority of the time.
And here was the titanium clipand here's the corrosion under

(01:08:09):
this scanning electronmicroscope that we saw from this
titanium clip and so they andit's and we're seeing this quite
a bit with these- gallbladderremovals and that obviously has
leached into the body, obviously.
Dr Correct, yeah, so you know,it can go throughout the body
and the patient was allergic, inthis case to nickel, and after

(01:08:30):
removal, you know, significantimprovement.
She also had titanium clips inher thyroid and had those
removed and after both thesewere removed, dramatic
improvement in health with thisparticular.
Then here's another.
Like you were talking about.
This is from back surgery andthis was his titanium hardware.
The arrow points to where thispicture comes from and this is
corrosion of the titanium backhardware.

(01:08:51):
You can see the normalstriations to the left you know
the milling process of thetitanium and to the right.
That's all corrosion.
And where did all thosetitanium, including vanadium and
and aluminum and nickel andother things, go?
Where'd that go?
it's in, oh my god, yeah yeah,throughout you know, throughout

(01:09:11):
the body, the whole inflammatorything.
Aluminum can cross theblood-brain barrier.
You talk about the inflamedmind.

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
Alzheimer's is through the roof.
I think Alzheimer's is one ofthe leading causes of death now
in America.
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Yeah, I don't know specifically on that, but yeah,
but yes, I mean, all of this wehave to look at.
And then here's what I wastalking about.
I you know inductively coupledmass spectrometry, where we can
look at all the elements fromthat particular hardware.
This look at all the elementsyou know that were in here,
including, you know, not justtitanium, aluminum and vanadium,

(01:09:49):
but you can see theconcentration there, but also
chromium, iron, nickel and thena whole host of other things up
there of trace amounts.
So that's all kind of that.
I think we're back to thatmining process and that type of
thing.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
That was great.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
And then, yeah, the nurse we just listened to.
This was her plate, titaniumplate.
After just about five monthsafter I removed it, we took and
looked at that under thescanning electronic microscope
and this is the bone side of oneof the small plates she had
after just five months and thisis the corrosion.

(01:10:28):
So what do?

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
you think, and then of course you've probably got
different like in in dentalimplants.
You've got, I don't know well,I thousands, yeah well the
dental implants, thousands of.

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):
Well, I've been different man right?
Well, we've been looking atthat yeah, yeah, um, but you
know the coating it's.
Ha, is that one of the coatings?

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
We've stopped putting hydroxyapatite on coatings.
There was a phase.
Now Usually it's called SLA, soit's acid, etched and
sandblasted for, let's say, moresurface adhesion.
We stopped using polishedtitanium many, many years ago,

(01:11:12):
so there's like a roughenedsurface which is etched and
sandblasted.

Speaker 2 (01:11:17):
Right, okay, well, that had to be looked at too.
We've looked at some of the HAones, but the HA kind of coats
the implant into the bone, so wecan't really see underneath
that very easy.
We haven't figured out a way toget it off.
But this was again people wantto get it off.
But this was again people wantto kind of be careful looking.

(01:11:38):
But this was all titanium.
This was after about four and ahalf five months of me removing
a titanium plate and all theblack I've sent this off to.
Pathology comes back astitanium particles.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
I've seen this in the mouth Once.
I you know, having to remove afractured titanium implant.
I have seen the corrosion onthe bone.
I've seen it, and I think SamMimbussi has an article on that
as well, about titanium particlecorrosion, published a few
years ago.
All right, man, listen, it'sokay.

(01:12:05):
Yeah, that's just so.
What do you think needs tohappen at universities, in
policy and hospitals?

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
Well, you know, I think we just really need this
is showing me right now.
I see every day, and I think wejust really need to show me
right now.
I see every day.
That's a metal screw, anamalgam filling and a porcelain
fused to metal alloy crown.
That's dentistry from the last40 years.

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
It's there.
And so we took yesterday, wetook this one on the left, the
amalgam, the chunk of amalgam,and this happened to be a
stainless steel, you know, rippost, and here's what it looked
like under the microscope, underthe electron microscope, and,
and this was to the left, thatwas the stainless steel rip post
that then was attached to theamalgam.

(01:13:07):
And you look how kind of rougheverything is there, you know.
And so that's what we don'tknow, you know, I, we want to
get a new piece of amalgamthat's just formed and just see
how much of this amalgampotentially has corroded away.
Or is this just the way itlooks when it comes out after
it's, you know, formed and um,so then we looked at this was

(01:13:27):
the amalgam itself, and it was,you know, mercury and silver in
this particular one and that'swith what's called EDS.
And then here was same type ofthing we were looking at.
This was the root post there.
And then this was actually the,the crown, the crown, and the
metal of the crown was palladium.

(01:13:47):
Okay, and palladium is a morenoble than the mercury.
So, and these are right inclose proximity to each other.
So again, we get a battery, wecan get a battery type reaction.
What's going to be released?
Well, the mercury is going tobe released, right, because it's
the more and that's justphysics period.
There's, there's yeah, this isjust physics.

Speaker 1 (01:14:08):
Yeah, this is physics , this is engineering.
I can't argue that.
So it's just not going to nothappen.
It's going to happen, right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
So yeah, I thought you'd kind of want to see that
one, you know.
And then this may beinteresting too.
Just briefly, stainless steelto titanium implant 111.
Here's stainless steel to azirconia implant.
You know, 0.1 millivoltsTitanium to titanium.
Go back go back, go back whichone?

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
Ceramic.
So this shows you that zirconiais probably the way to go in
the future, right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
That's my gut feeling .
Looking at this especiallyelectrically yeah, there's not a
reaction.
Looking at this especiallyelectrically yeah, it doesn't.
You know, there's not areaction electrically.
Here's the titanium, and thisis my gut feeling as to why
we're having failures.
You know you're having failures, or the dental world is having
failures is that here's zirconiaand there's titanium, and so

(01:15:09):
you definitely have electricalissues going on, and then if you
have other metals in the mouth,and then we, we're sitting
there looking, okay, here's,here's again titanium to
zirconia no one is aware of this, scott.

Speaker 1 (01:15:21):
This is so important.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
Honestly, I'm gonna make and then here, yeah, and
here's titanium implant totitanium implant and these are
ones I believe sammy gave me uhto to check it out.
So these are ones I believeSammy gave me to check it out.
So these are differentcompanies, right?
And again, they're not the samealloy, so you're going to have
a potential difference between.
So if you put one titanium inone place and then another

(01:15:45):
different brand in another place, you're going to have reactions
just between those two types,potentially between those two
titanium implants, potentially,right.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
Keep on going.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
OK, yeah, so here's titanium implant to zirconia,
all right.
And then here is the gal thatworked with the FDA.
She presented to me with theFDA and so she.
Her specialty was this adverseevents reporting.
And of all the metal, metalmedical implants, including
total hips, knees, everythingit's 25 million.

(01:16:21):
Here's the staggering onethrough April 25 of this year,
there's 5.1 million adverseevents reported for titanium
dental implants point onemillion adverse events reported
for titanium dental implants, soone fifth of all.

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
What, what's organization?

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
is this?
This is at the fda.
No, no, no device event.
She um madras broke off fromthat, and then there was a
couple there's what's called themod reporting that she has
listed there, and then there'sanother type of database and she
combined the two to then getthis quote device events.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
And then she works with a lot of universities, 25
million from dental implants.

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
No, no, no, 25 million of all devices Of all
Okay, and then dental implants?
How many?
Five million of no, 25 millionof all devices, of all, okay,
all medical devices.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
Five million of those Five million.
That's a big number.
And are these numbers just fromthe US or globally?

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
These are what are reported to the FDA and my
understanding is that this isbecause the company.
No, no, no, Because thecompanies that most of this
reporting actually comes fromthe companies.
When a dentist has an implantthat fails, they send it back to
the company, says hey, this onefailed and as you see, at the
bottom of this it says 4.4million of these were serious

(01:17:45):
injury reports and basicallywhat that means is it's lack of
osteo integration and basicallywhat that means is it's lack of
osteointegration.
That's a 4.4 million.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
So that could be these 4.4.
Are those, let's say, 5% thatfail?
Now we could tap into the greedof the dental industry and say,
hey, because they have toreplace those implants and the
clinics have to replace them.
It's a very expensiveproposition when these implants
fail because you lose the crown,it's just, it's horrible.

(01:18:15):
Nobody likes these failures.
Maybe that will inspire peopleto start asking more questions
and and looking into this alittle bit more.
Geez man, right, right a littlenumber.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
So, uh, yeah, yeah that that is a big number.
That that's what thesecorrosion engineers were.
Boy, we need to look at thisfurther, and they're willing to
work with the dental industryregarding this, you know, to try
to figure out why.
So you know, and then this thiswas actually the HA on this in

(01:18:48):
the upper right is that titaniumdental implant, an older one,
you know, and so what this wasactually.
I was talking about theabutment, so it's abutment where
we're seeing the issues.
Here's the corrosion on theabutment that screwed into that
older dental implant.
So you can see the corrosion inthe center aspect.
So it's, and that makes sense,because that's where you have

(01:19:08):
more of the fluids and all thataround there, right, and so, and
again, we're just delving intothis now sense, because that's
where you have more of thefluids and all that around there
, right, and uh, so, and again,we're just delving into this now
.
So, but, uh, I think more workneeds to be done here.
So, and then we looked and,sure enough, this was titanium.
You can see this eds, it'scalled, it's aluminum titanium,
and actually nickel was in thistoo, so in the above.

(01:19:30):
But uh, then here here's thereports for the fda with the uh,
you know, the dental implantsand and happening last, you know
, from 2019 on is when it reallytook off as far as uh, you know
more serious events here,interesting, yep.

(01:19:51):
So, and then I'll just kind ofput this in, so people kind of
look at it real quick becausethis is the lack of Osteos
integration and what have you,and some of the other issues
associated with this.
But but that's what we, youknow, that's what we got.
Yeah, so big thing is going tobe, you know, working with, you

(01:20:21):
know, having a high index ofsuspicion and really looking in,
you know, asking the questionsand when there are issues and
maybe a little forethought goinginto some of this, now it does
appear, you know, if we can havegood ceramic implants.
You know, in my mind, from whatI'm seeing, from my, at least,
electrical type stuff, thatseems to be a way to go with
this and avoid and that's whatwe're trying to do in the
orthopedic world too, with anumber of these issues is, you
know, find other alternatives,you know.

Speaker 1 (01:20:43):
I'm going to tell you something.
First of all, thank you forthis.
It's brilliant the way youeducate and explain and back it
up with your experience, butalso the publications and stuff,
and it's very simple, it's veryon point and it's scary.
You know a dentist, a normaldentist, that does this.
It's going to scare the livingshit out of a lot of people, all

(01:21:04):
right, and I would say that youknow it is a duty of every
doctor, every medicalprofessional, to continuously be
curious and ask questions andchallenge the status quo and
educate themselves and followthe science and the literature

(01:21:27):
of autoimmune disease,unexplained conditions, chronic
health issues, subclinicalissues that you know, the amount
of people that are on pills,just like the ones that you said
, that are desperate for help.
And it could be something assimple as we have just
overlooked electric currentsthat were created by putting
metals in people's mouths.

(01:21:48):
We didn't know we were tryingour best and you know 100 years
ago we'd make lead piping.
We put asbestos in people'smouths.
We didn't know we were tryingour best and you know, 100 years
ago we'd make lead piping.
We put asbestos in people'sceilings.
Doctors were recommendingsmoking to pregnant women.
Where medicine is evolving, youknow it was done with the best
of the knowledge, the best ofintentions.
You know, and we need to evolve.
So I'm going to make sure a lotof my colleagues see this.

(01:22:08):
They might want to reach out toyou.
How do people find you?

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
So it's, you know, right now I've been kind of
laying on the low a little bit,just because with how much I'm
doing and working, it's probablybest to kind of come through
you and then you kind of, youknow, be able to get people on.

Speaker 1 (01:22:31):
And also very clear, scott, you are not uh, you know,
be able to get people on veryclear scott.
You are not.
You don't have any devices, youdon't have any shares, you are
not paid by any organization.
You have no fiduciary orfinancial interest in any
company in health care outsideof just.
You want to help people seewhat you're saying this has
affected my family.

Speaker 2 (01:22:52):
Four of my five family members, including myself
, have been affected by thisquite significantly.
And so you know you have thattype of thing happen and you
flip, you change.
You know you kind of reallystart asking questions and you
know both my mother and fatherare same type of thing
Alzheimer's.
What have dementia issues I'mconcerned about when I'm going

(01:23:16):
by the group homes and peopleare screaming and yelling and
all that okay, do they haveamalgam in their mouth?
You know it's a neurotoxinright and what's happening.
You know we look at this.
Like you mentioned thepsychological, you know issues
in this country.
Let's let's take, let's ask aquestion, issues in this country
.
Let's ask a question whatmetals do these people have in
their body and can thatcontribute to these issues that?

(01:23:37):
We just looked at that article.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
That yes all of that can be related to metals.
Okay, let's just rule that outthen.
You know, I'm going to do myvery best to see if we can uh
get you on guys like joe rogan,you know, who have huge reach.
These big podcasters, uh, davidhuberman, uh, these big guys

(01:24:00):
because, um, I think Iintroduced you to leila the
other day, uh, in miami.
They know a lot of big names.
Because this information is toget out there and you need to
work with the companies.
We need to find solutions, weneed to help people.
Listen, scott, I can't thankyou enough for finding time for

(01:24:20):
me and to jump on this andeducate.
I'll get this up as soon as Ican and God bless you.
Keep up the good fight, keep onasking questions, and I look
forward to sharing the stagewith you again, real, real soon,
my friend.

Speaker 2 (01:24:37):
It will be great, yep .
Always a pleasure, miguel.
Thank you very much, very, verymuch Appreciate.

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
It All right, thank you, okay.
Okay, don't hang up, you bet.

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