#112 The 1964 Solway Firth Spaceman

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Any and I looked out and there was this big, red,
blinking UFO.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
I can just say this, something's going on in the woods.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Something's going on.

Speaker 4 (00:29):
They're not dogs, they're not coyotes.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
What could it be?

Speaker 4 (00:31):
Right? I had an encounter with a skunk cake and
it completely altered the course of my life.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
I got a call on building.

Speaker 5 (00:41):
What about saying sightings of a UFO covering over a barn.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Really woke up from a dream, and when I went
into the bedroom, she said, there's a monster on the wall.

Speaker 5 (00:52):
They saw that the creature had run through a barbed
wire fence.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
That they were able to obtain cares. They sent the.

Speaker 5 (01:00):
Hairs to their lab and it came back as an
online creature.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Creature Patres shit born O, What is the Bizarre rights?

Speaker 4 (01:15):
And welcome back to the most Bizarre show on the Internet.
I am the one that two people now call Saint Squatch,
and over here next to me, I have the one
that they call the Big Bad Boo Daddy or in Felix.

Speaker 5 (01:34):
I really appreciate the wrestler introduction, especially since we're in
the midst of WrestleMania season. I think it's very fitting.

Speaker 4 (01:43):
So see, I had to amp you up a little bit.
I told you I was gonna get it right eventually,
and now that I'm actually taking the time to make
sure that we have some soundboard sound effects, it's a
lot easier and easier easily achieved. So we're gonna start
doing that from now on. I got the soundboard loaded
up today with some random funny stuff that I'm gonna
drop throughout the show, and the way I'm gonna run
it is that I'm not going to tell you any
of the stuff on the soundboard. It's just gonna fall
at the times when it needs to fall.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Sir, well, I'm eagerly anticipating that.

Speaker 4 (02:08):
So kind of wrapping to roll into everything I know.
First and foremost, we have a few quick updates for
you guys, or and once you let him know about
the very first update.

Speaker 5 (02:18):
All right, So first order of business, Our next Bizarre
Inquiries live stream will be May first at seven point
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(02:39):
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Speaker 4 (02:52):
And if you don't come Bizarre Inquiries, Man, Alex Jones
gets real mad. You hear him, He's yelling back there.
He's gonna freak out on you guys if you don't
show up to the show right now. Oh, he must
have tired himself out. Oh well that's enough, Alex. He
can just sit down for a little bit. But again,
he gets really upset when you guys don't show up
to Bizarre Increries. So I'm just letting you guys know,
if you want Alex to scream at you, then don't

(03:12):
show up to Bizarre Increries.

Speaker 5 (03:13):
But I think Shane a wrestler announcer, and Alex Jones
are like merging into the same entity at this point.

Speaker 4 (03:20):
It's it's working man, We're gonna create some type of
T shirt eventually where it's Alex Jones the wrestler announcer
and he's gonna be announcing us and we're gonna have
a T shirt with both of us in the ring,
the Shane Squatch the Big Bad Boo Daddy with wrestler
announcer Alex Jones. Fucking awesome. Man.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
I'm sure none of that is trademark infringement at all.

Speaker 4 (03:40):
I mean, maybe it is, maybe it's not. But if
you deny all allegations, then question you know it is
what it is.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
All right? What are some of our other news and updates, Shane.

Speaker 4 (03:51):
So just a quick thing to all of the Patreon subscribers,
just a quick heads up. The Patreon is currently under construction.
I have a lot of new idea that I'm going
to be working on that are going to be coming
to a fuluition for the Patreon in the next month
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cards before they're dealt because I want to make sure
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member of the patreon and you see that the tears

(04:13):
are a little bit messed up right now, that is
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that's a current subscriber, like stick with me for now.
For anybody that's not, you know, check out where we're

(04:34):
gonna end up in the next month or so, because
I think you guys will be very happy with the
stuff we're putting out on that side, and kind of
continuing off of that, and also continuing off of Bizarre Inquiries.
For anybody that's been catching any of the live shows.
I've done a couple of the live inquiries so far,
I don't think we've gotten to a live Bizarre Encounters,
but we'll probably be doing it. Well, it'll be tomorrow

(04:55):
now from the time this drop, so that Thursday, but
I'll post it on social media but at the beginning
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I'm gonna be putting out a weekly schedule so you
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(05:15):
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Speaker 5 (05:23):
And if any of you guys out there want to
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Speaker 4 (05:30):
You guys can number one email us at Bizarre Encounters
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last way you guys can get a hold of us
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(05:51):
is available down in those show notes for you. Make
it quick and easy and everything that, every single thing
that we've mentioned and we'll mention throughout the show is
of course all available on the link tree and leading
into today's episode, I know that this was one that
Orn was very excited to get into. I purposely did
not look into this too much because your enthusiasm just
got me really excited about it, and I wanted to

(06:13):
be surprised with all this stuff that you're bringing in.
So without further ado, I won't tread around water too much. Man,
let them know what we're getting into today.

Speaker 5 (06:20):
Yeah, So this was, like you said, when I was
really excited to do. It's been a really fun one
to kind of research and put together. It's gonna be
something a little different. It's kind of more visually based,
I guess, than a lot of stuff we talk about
on the show. My original intention was to cover this
topic for a Bizarre Inquiries episode when we had like
the YouTube live stream, but as I got kind of

(06:43):
digging into it, I thought that there was enough material
here for a whole episode. So for all you listeners
out there, I have included a kind of PDF with
some pictures for Shane to look at as we go
through this. So maybe we can include those in the
cover art or the you know, showed description or something
like that. But you listeners out there, this might be

(07:03):
one to have your phone handy with you while you
listen to.

Speaker 4 (07:06):
Yeah, I'll make sure that I include it in the
cover art so everybody can know exactly what you're talking about.
I think there's only one image on the bottom right,
so there's not too much that I have to include.

Speaker 5 (07:14):
I've got some other images for us to talk about,
but there's one main one.

Speaker 4 (07:18):
So okay. Well, if you've got a couple of them,
depending on how it plays out with the show, if
there's more stuff to show, then I'll just make like
a like a link so people can go and check
out the image itself. But just a quick side note, Man,
I haven't heard of this one before, so I'm pretty
excited about it. So hopefully this is something new for
the listeners, because you know, when it comes to this community,
you see a lot of the same stuff, you know,
kind of going into circulation, people putting their spin and

(07:38):
everything on it. But I honestly haven't seen anybody even
talk about this one yet.

Speaker 5 (07:41):
So yeah, so that's kind of why I was so
excited to do this one. This is a subject that
I had like briefly seen years ago on an Ancient
Aliens episode, And as you recent listeners will know, I
was reading John Keels The Eighth Tower here recently and
they talked about this occurrence of situation in that book,

(08:02):
and I was like, oh my god, that's that thing
I saw on ancient Aliens and that led me down
this whole rabbit hole. So without further ado, and unless
you got anything else, Shane, we will start talking about
the Solway Firth.

Speaker 4 (08:13):
Spaceman, I'm gonna get off by cranking your knob just
a little beyond the breaking point. Just don't want ap
prempiate it.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Mony.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Does that mean we're good to go?

Speaker 4 (08:23):
Excuse me, I'm sorry, I'm out of control.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
I apologize for that.

Speaker 4 (08:28):
I'm not sure if.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
That's Shane or Alex Jones.

Speaker 4 (08:30):
It's just going to be a universal recording that Alex
is just gonna apologize for us anytime we get off
in from now on, Alex will apologize for us formally, professionally,
very professionally.

Speaker 5 (08:39):
He will be our liaison. Now that's reassuring, all right.
So jumping into tonight's topic. So, on May the twenty
third of nineteen sixty four, a man named Jim Templeton
took his wife Annie and their five year old daughter
Elizabeth on a day trip to the Solway Firth in

(08:59):
cumber England. And I was not aware of this prior
to doing this research. But firth is a British term
that refers to quote an inlet of the sea, so
you know, just like a little piece of water between
two pieces of land and the Solway Firth actually forms
part of the border between England and Scotland, so kind

(09:20):
of like on the bottom side of England. So during
their visit, Templeton took a series of three photographs of
Elizabeth and after he got the photos developed, the middle
photo in the series appeared to show like this strange
figure wearing a quote unquote spacesuit in the background of

(09:40):
the picture. And Shane, if you want to pull up
the first image from that PDF, this is the infamous picture.

Speaker 4 (09:47):
I will bring it up on the screen for anybody
that is watching on the Patreon here, boom, boom, there
you go.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
All right.

Speaker 5 (09:56):
So, Shane, since you're not as familiar with this as
I am, don't you describe to the viewers kind of
what we're looking at here.

Speaker 4 (10:03):
So we're looking at a little girl wearing a dress
that is definitely of the time, and behind her it
appears that she's sitting in a field holding some flowers,
and there appears to be a man wearing a quote
spaceman suit or it almost kind of looks vaguely like
a like a beekeeper suit, like it's the all white
teflon or not Teflon tivek almost looking suit. And there's

(10:25):
clearly some type of like shield over the face, whether
it's nutting or not. That's why I said, it almost
kind of looks like it might be like a bee
keeper and it also kind of looks like spaceman at
the same time.

Speaker 5 (10:34):
I think that was a tremendous explanation of the photo.
I'm glad you did that rather than me, since I've
looked at this ad nauseum here the past few weeks.

Speaker 4 (10:43):
But I'd go into more detail. There's also a beautiful
blue sky with some fluffy clouds behind her too, I
add in the final detail. That's the one part of
the image I can't describe, all right.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Yeah, that's really the kicker, all right.

Speaker 5 (10:55):
So Templeton was adamant that, like when he took this picture,
that the figure was not present in the background.

Speaker 4 (11:02):
I think you'd noticed some man standing behind your daughter
when you're taking a picture, like you.

Speaker 5 (11:07):
And so he said that the only people that were
at the first that day were quote A couple of
old women sitting in a car at the far end
of the marsh. And so I've got a bit of
a quote here that was attributed to Templeton from a
two thousand and to interview. It's from a British tabloid
called The Daily Mail. And this is kind of going

(11:28):
to be just what I laid out, but it's more
in his own words. So I thought it would be
kind of fun to share that. So Templeton stated, quote,
I took the photograph on Burr Marsh on May twenty three,
nineteen sixty four, using an SLR camera loaded with the
new Code of Color film, which was processed by Kodak.
I took three pictures of my daughter Elizabeth in a

(11:49):
similar pose and was shocked when the middle picture came
back from Kodak, displaying what looks like a spaceman in
the background. The picture is certainly not a fake, and
I'm as bermune as anyone else as to how this
image appeared in the background, So kind of a little
bit more background. After he picked up the pictures from
the developer, he then quote took the picture to the

(12:12):
police in Carlisle, who, after many doubts examined it and
stated there was nothing suspicious about it. The local newspaper,
the Cumberland News, picked up the story and within hours
it was all over the world. So the picture like
initially appeared on the front page of the June twelfth
edition of the Cumberland News and the article that kind

(12:34):
of accompanied it is what dubbed this figure as the
Solway Firth Spaceman. And of course this attracted a lot
of international attention and the attention of ufologists. So do
you have anything to add before we kind of move
on to the next section.

Speaker 4 (12:51):
I mean this might play in maybe a little bit
farther in, but just like a quick observation of things
for anybody that remembers our episode that we covered with
Sam the Sandown Clown.

Speaker 5 (13:00):
Yes, yes, I'm glad you said that. This story reminds
me so much of that one. I was hoping you'd
kind of put those pieces together.

Speaker 4 (13:08):
One you got England, two you got right by the water,
three you got this interaction with kids, and four you
have these like weird spaceman type costumes because like Sam
the Sandown Clown appeared to be made of wood like
this one's definitely wearing some type of space suit. But
obviously there's a weird correlation with weird sightings and being
near water and everything. But on top of that, it's

(13:29):
specifically in England that there's these sightings by the water
and they're always wearing these like weird one off suits, you.

Speaker 5 (13:34):
Know, Like, yeah, no, that's a great piece of commentary.
I'm glad you went there. You're on fire tonight between
your Alex jonesing and your picture analysis and Sam the
Sandown clown, so gold Starter, you, Shane and I Plumbing.

Speaker 4 (13:53):
She gotta throw one more Alex there. Hold on tight, guys.
We'll be right back after this brief commercial.

Speaker 5 (14:00):
But in the meantime, don't forget to follow Bizarre Encounters
on Instagram and Facebook, and don't forget to check out
Open Minds Media on YouTube and TikTok. We'd love to
hear from you, so feel free to leave a comment
or spark up a conversation.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
We love getting to know you guys.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
And now back to the show.

Speaker 5 (14:26):
All right, So now we're going to kind of jump
into what I think are kind of the more bizarre
fun aspects of this case. So, after Templeton's photo appeared
in the Cumberland News. He was allegedly allegedly visited by
two strange men who wore dark colored suits and drove
a jaguar or a jaguarre as they would refer to

(14:49):
it in England.

Speaker 4 (14:50):
A jaguar uh.

Speaker 5 (14:52):
And according to Templeton, the two men claimed to be
government officials, but they refused to show him any identification,
and I thought this is kind of fun and interesting.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
They allegedly referred to each.

Speaker 5 (15:04):
Other only as number nine and number eleven, And so
the two men kind of question slash threatened Templeton about
question exactly. He even demanded that he like take them
to the physical location where he took the picture, and
they also asked him like some strange questions, like had

(15:25):
he seen any birds in the area when the picture
was taken? But anyway, when it was a.

Speaker 4 (15:31):
Bird, it's swamp gas it's a bird, like.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
No, it maybe a sand hill cran.

Speaker 4 (15:35):
It might it might even be a sand hill cran,
I mean ball lightning.

Speaker 5 (15:41):
So anyway, when they got to the location, they kind
of kept like demanding that Templeton admit that this was
a hoax, but he remained adamant that you know, he
did not see this figure when the photo was taken
and he had no idea how it got into the frame.
So this is kind of funny. I think apparently this
like angered these two guys and they like drove off
suddenly and left him there and he had to walk home.

Speaker 4 (16:07):
They're just so frustrated they just answer the question. They're like,
you know what, We're done with this. We're gone, We're done.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
No, it seems like that's about what happened.

Speaker 5 (16:17):
But anyway, so it should kind of be noted that
Templeton did not believe that these two guys were legitimate
government agents. And he said, and I quote, it all
looks like a leg pull to me. I'm sure the
men were not security agents.

Speaker 4 (16:32):
So wait, is there a difference either one you can
tell it they're fake because they're driving a Jaguar instead
of a Cadillac. Or on the flip side, you know,
maybe maybe they got to fit with the region. You
know how we always talk about this, you keel a
lot of.

Speaker 5 (16:46):
The men in black encounters in the UK, they are
driving Jaguars.

Speaker 4 (16:50):
That's what I was saying. It fits with the demographic, right,
that's whatever the popular car is. Yeah, because you think
of government agents in the US, of course you're gonna
think of like a blackout Cadillac, but you think of
like government agents in the UK, maybe you think of
like an ash and Martin. Maybe that's a little bit
too high in for him, so you know, next step down,
of course you get the Jaguar maybe.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (17:09):
So I thought that was kind of an interesting tidbit
that it specifically said a Jaguar, and that's you know,
straight out of keel.

Speaker 4 (17:14):
We should have looked this up to see if there's
specific cars that are like this should just be some
random thing just to dive into, because I don't know
where the extent of it would go to. But I'm
curious if it's like UK Jaguars, and then you'd find
like Germany, any interactions they have with these they're they're
driving like BMW's or something.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Like that, or like a Mercedes.

Speaker 4 (17:33):
Yeah, Like I'm curious if it fits the demographic of
the country with these men in black slightings, and if
it's like universal that like every single time you see
one in the US, it's driving this car. Every time
you see one in this country, it's driving this car.
Like I said, I don't know where the research would go,
but like I feel like there might be something there,
you know, in a weird way.

Speaker 5 (17:49):
Yeah, And I do specifically remember from when I did
all the research for our Mothman Prophecies series, Keel specifically
mentions Cadillacs and Jaguars is like the two most common
cars that they drive. So, I mean, you don't hear
about a whole lot of like German men in Black Encounters,
but it might be kind of cool to you know,
dig into that and see if there's anything to it,

(18:10):
Like you said.

Speaker 4 (18:11):
I mean even just uh. It also seems like it's
with the time, but it's like a previous thing too
in a way, because like when you're thinking of agents
that are driving Cadillacs in the US, you think of
like the fifties, you think of maybe like the sixties,
And I know John Keel when he was doing his stuff,
it was what sixties, seventies, in sixty seventies, Yeah, and
even more modern people are still describing the Cadillacts. So

(18:32):
it's kind of weird that it's like.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
It's like a timeless thing.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (18:35):
Yeah, it's kind of like when people are talking about
like the shadow people are like the hat Man thing
that they pick like like one hundred year span, and
they kind of pick like the universal for that instead
of it being like, uh, it updates every year with
the every decade, you know. It kind of like they're like,
all right, there's this one hundred year period. This is
kind of like the uniform of what they wore for
the most part in that, like we're just gonna stick
it in the middle. You know, they're like nineteen hundred fifties,

(18:57):
let's just go with that look.

Speaker 5 (18:59):
Yeah, And that's kind of like the whole thing about
like the men in black is I said, you know,
like you said, in one hundred year span, Like there's
not really a time that like a man in just
a plain black suit's gonna look super duper out of place,
you know.

Speaker 4 (19:12):
Yeah, it's like timelessly universal. The only thing that might
change with the phenomenon as it progresses in the future
is if cars themselves start to change, meaning like electric cars,
hover cars. Like we get to that point in the future,
I feel like the black attired the black dress will
stay the same, but like maybe the car will change
with the times, you know, because it will look weird
as hell if everybody's driving an electric car or if

(19:33):
everybody's driving a flying car and then this dude's rolling
around a fifties Cadillac, Like.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
Well, maybe we'll live long enough to see if that happens.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
I really hope so, because that would be a really
bizarre part of the phenomenon, because it would almost make
more sense because if these things are extraterrestrial, Bro, they're
like holding back their technology. The problem is they're gonna
show up with like a hovercar, but it's gonna be
like ten years to advance for us.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Well, we'll just have to sit tight and wait and see.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
Isn't that twenty forty five? And they're like, holy shit,
is that? Is that a twenty sixty catileec? How fuck
did you get that? I don't know how to drive it?
Can I have some jello?

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Please?

Speaker 4 (20:10):
All right?

Speaker 5 (20:10):
So this is another kind of weird cool part of
this story. So shortly after Templeton's photo appeared in the
Cumberland News, he.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Was allegedly allegedly there you go.

Speaker 5 (20:23):
Contacted by a missile technician that worked at a base
in I believe it be pronounced Womera, South Australia.

Speaker 4 (20:32):
Oh Mara, you all pronounced it with a with a
little bit of a twist to it. You know you
got you gotta open up the throat.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Well that's all you man.

Speaker 4 (20:40):
That sounded a little a little questionable. I'm gonna get
off by cranking your knob. Teddy chill, Okay.

Speaker 5 (20:47):
So, according to this missile technician, there was this like
planned test launch of a blue Streak missile. Like blue
Streak is like the kind of missile that they were testing.
But this missile test was a boy because two like
strange men suddenly appeared on the firing range.

Speaker 4 (21:07):
Who is that man? Answer the question?

Speaker 5 (21:10):
And a few days after this happened, supposedly this missile
technician saw Templeton's photo in an Australian newspaper and he
was like shocked by this because he said that the
Solway Firth to spaceman looked like identical to these two
figures that appeared on the firing range. But it should

(21:30):
be noted that like no official record of this incident
like actually exists, and like the only evidence for it
comes like from Templeton's own account of it. But it's
kind of interesting also that the missile that was scheduled
to be tested was allegedly you want to do it

(21:51):
allegedly there you go, uh, manufactured at an Air Force
base called r af Spade Atom and it's local in Cumbria, England,
which is only like a few miles from where the
Solway first Spaceman photo was taken. And according to John Keel,
the location where the photo was taken was also really

(22:13):
close to the Chapel Cross Atomic Energy Station.

Speaker 4 (22:17):
That was the next thing I was going to say,
is there nuclear somewhere around here? Because is this thing
jet propulsion? Is it nuclear somehow? Like that? That was
why I was delayed on the alleged liest because I
was waiting for you to drop something about nuclear. It
was like nuclear clear.

Speaker 5 (22:31):
So like, this is I think the coolest part of
the whole story. It gets into a lot of strange
synchronicities and also like this phenomenon of UFOs and you know,
extraterrestrials and things like that appearing near nuclear facilities and
military basis. So uh, a lot of these things weren't
you know, probably as much hallmarks of the phenomenon back

(22:53):
in you know, the seventies as they are now. So
I think this is like a really cool and interesting
part of the story to unpack.

Speaker 4 (22:59):
Just to throw in a little bit of a different
concept on this. Looking at the suits, don't they almost
kind of look like somebody that'd work at like a
nuclear facility.

Speaker 5 (23:10):
Kind of yeah, like a you know, like James Bond
doctor no type anti radiation suit.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
Yes, So another weird thing to think about. Maybe at
least with this case, maybe it plays in with some
other stuff. But obviously if there's any issues with anything nuclear,
they're doing anything weird with the nuclear stuff, like there's
going to be a cover up on it, of course,
So I'm kind of curious if there was any cover
ups or any weird things that happened at this nuclear

(23:36):
facility where again, this is gonna be this is where
it's gonna get kind of weird. But like dealing with
nuclear obviously you kind of start touching into that like
almost like messing with other realities type thing when you
start like splitting Adams and you start doing all this
type of weird stuff. So like who knows what the
inevitable like aftershock of that could be. So like if
these guys are looking like they're wearing like radiation suits

(23:56):
or something like that, like is it possible that they
could have been like experimenting on something and then they
almost got like I don't want to say transfer to
another reality, but like somehow they're like particles got like
rearranged where you're seeing these people in these images but
they're not being seen in the real world. But they're
like normal people wearing like nuclear suits, like I don't know,

(24:17):
just a weird.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Like some sort of mirage almost.

Speaker 4 (24:19):
Not even like a mirage, but like if it like
something happened where these people are existing in another plane
and they can only be captured in pictures, almost like
a ghost, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Well, it's interesting you said that.

Speaker 5 (24:29):
Keep that on the back burner as we move into theories.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
Hold that thought. We'll be back in a flash.

Speaker 4 (24:36):
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(24:57):
and seven to eight free trials available.

Speaker 5 (25:07):
And now back to the show, all right, So getting
into kind of theories and thoughts and things of that nature.
So throughout the years, the Templeton family remained adamant that
the photo captured like something legitimately strange. And there's a
nineteen ninety six interview with a Scottish newspaper that Elizabeth

(25:28):
did and again Elizabeth is the little girl who's captured
in the first picture that we looked at, and she said, quote,
we got a lot of hassle from people like you,
but I was really young and can't remember much. I
think it was somebody from another planet. It is pretty
selfish of us to think that we are the only
intelligent form of life. And kind of going back to

(25:49):
what you just said before the commercial break, it's also
been suggested that the figure in the photo could have
been like a ghost or a spirit or some sort
of time traveler, or that the Templetons possess some sort
of like latent psychic power, so it could be like
some sort of stranger thing type of situation going on here.

Speaker 4 (26:07):
That almost makes you wonder though that if there is
the possibility of time travel, and that's like a really
up for debate thing because I don't know if it'd
be theoretically possible until we got to like the next
dimension up, because that's the only way that you really
be able to like manipulate time, or if you left
this dimension then came back at it like a different point.
But I guess getting into kind of the like time

(26:30):
traveler theory on stuff like, assumably if you're advanced enough
in the future that you'd be able to do time travel,
you'd probably also be advanced enough to try to create
some type of like cloaking device, so assumably, you know,
the biggest thing supposedly about going to the past is
that you don't want to alter the past. But that's
suff for debate because I feel like, if you already
went to the past, it's already happened in your timeline,

(26:51):
So anything you do in the past has already happened
in the past, so it doesn't kindly jump in real
quick your timeline.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
But I haven't done it.

Speaker 5 (26:57):
Back to the future joke in a few episodes, I
thought the big thing about time travel was not to
fuck your mother.

Speaker 4 (27:03):
That is true, definitely don't do that, especially not on
accident or on purpose, especially not on purpose.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
But yeah, I feel like that's just slightly worse.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
It's it's a bit worse. But yeah, so assumably there
would be some type of like you probably want to
have some type of cloaking device so that like say
you wanted to go to these events to be able
to observe history. You know, if you can't go back
to see these events, then like what's the point of
like traveling in the first place. You know, so either
one you got to blend in where like the clothes
of the time, or two you got some type of
like cloaking facade. But on the flip side of it,

(27:33):
you know, if you made this cloaking facade in the
future and you didn't take into consideration old world technology
from certain times of course, because you know, you could
go back to like the medieval times, they didn't have
cameras and stuff like that, Like nobody's gonna see your
cloaking device. But you go back to the sixties and
those cameras worked just differently, Like people captured UFOs more
easily on them, they captured spirits more easily on them.

(27:54):
All that kind of stuff, So like.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Any sort of like analog technology.

Speaker 4 (27:58):
Yeah, so I'm curious if possibly there could be some
type of like interference from like the type of camera
that if that whole time traveler theory is possible, that
it could be like an interference of like their cloaking device.
It's almost like you know, when you try to record
something that's like has a lot of energy to it
or that's like magnetic with like an old camera, how
it cause like the ripple in that area like on
the film. Like, I'm curious if it's could be something

(28:20):
like that.

Speaker 5 (28:20):
You know, well almost like the same idea as you know,
you're listening to the radio and you like pick up
these like random transmissions from you know, people talk about
like from China and shit like that. You know, it
could be the same type idea behind that phenomenon. It's
just kind of like electromagnetic spillover from somewhere else, or.

Speaker 4 (28:41):
They accidentally were able to view into another timeline and
on that other timeline there was a massive nuclear disaster
and all these radiation guys are just walking around trying
to clean the shit up, just trying to do their job,
or seeing an alter timeline.

Speaker 5 (28:53):
Man all right, So, jumping back into some other theories,
there was a photography expert.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Whose name was James A.

Speaker 5 (29:01):
Conrad, and he spent like years meticulously like analyzing the
photo and he concluded that quote, unless convincing evidence to
the contrary surfaces, and it has not. So far since
nineteen sixty four, the Solway Spaceman photograph remains unsolved in
a mystery. I am inclined to support the position that

(29:23):
the Templetons have always been truthful about this photograph and
are not unreliable or incompetent observers, as implied by the
unstated inferences of some skeptics. I'm inclined to support the
position that the photograph shows an unknown entity who was
not visible visibly excuse me, present to the photographer, Jim Templeton,

(29:44):
and the other three members of the family. And it's
kind of funny to note too, that after the photo
appeared in the Cumberland News, Kodak Like had the photo
examined by their analysis department and they concluded that it
was a legitimate photograph. It was not you know, like
tinkered with in any way, and kodak Like even offered

(30:09):
a cash reward for anybody who was able to prove
that it was fake. So, you know, this is kind
of fun to talk about in light of you know,
all these like faked AI Bigfoot images that are you know,
going around now. But like photography experts, the actual people
who made the fucking film said, no, this is a

(30:29):
legitimate photograph. Now what it captures is still up for debate,
but by all accounts, the actual photo is legitimate.

Speaker 4 (30:38):
And I mean, I even want to bring this up too.
So back in sixty four you got to think about
film then versus now, Like if you were editing a photo,
you were literally taking pictures, cutting them and then like
splicing them back together. It wasn't just like, oh, let
me go on my fucking computer and splice these images
together and make it look clean like the whole, Like
all these faked images from the past of like the

(30:59):
fairies all that type of stuff. People are literally like
cutting out cardboard and shit like that and putting it
like in the scene.

Speaker 5 (31:04):
So like UFO pictures, like when you zoom in on them,
you can tell it was like the bottom of a
light bulb, or you know, there's all sorts of those
stories where these supposed you know, photographs of strange things
are like really easy to debunk with you know, current technology.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
And like the only part that kind of sucks about
this image and I'm not gonna say that it's false
because of it, but you can you can see the
shadow of the girl, but it kind of falls a
little bit behind her right. Actually, I might as well
bring this up so I can show you what I'm
talking about as I'm going on, and the listeners can
look at the cover art. Okay, so can you see
my mouse hoorn? I can, Okay, so you see, Oh,
there's the shadow of the little girl right here. That

(31:42):
means the sun is coming from this angle, so it's
projecting the shadow right here back here. Either one, the
sun is directly above them, so you're just getting just
the faint outside edge of this and it just looks
longer because of the photo. Or two, there's no shadow
to this man. So either one, it's really the sun's
right above them, and like I said, you're only getting

(32:03):
this little bit of an outline, so that means a
little bit of the outline of the shadow. This guy
would be right here behind the girl's head, or on
the other side, there's no shadow at all, and either one,
it can be looked at one of two ways. Either
one it's weird that it doesn't have a shadow, because
it could be a standout. It could be something like
that that wouldn't cast.

Speaker 5 (32:18):
Her out spirit or something like that, That's what I
was gonna say.

Speaker 4 (32:21):
Or on the flip side, if it's something interdimensional, something else,
then that would also explain why it wouldn't have a shadow.
And also, to bring back this thing we say on
every fucking show, this was nineteen sixty four, dude, Like
nobody was making money off these pictures. People are getting
ridiculed for this kind of stuff. Nobody was doing this
to become like publicized. Like you can go back to
the eighteen hundreds, and the reason why all those stories

(32:44):
popped up wasn't because of the people that were telling him.
It was because all the uh news right or all
the newspapers wanted to create a story, especially for their town,
like eighteen hundreds, creature boom, here we go, let's blow
this up, let's just put it in the newspaper. But
sixty four it didn't have that same like speculation with
the newspaper like and again people were making money off
of it. Reason for them to fake this because clearly,

(33:08):
like from these interviews that are like annoyed of even
talking about anymore. So it's like you got to look
between the lines here, you know, like, but that's just
my views on it. It's either what like you can
edit this photo. At this time, there was no reason
to fake stuff like this at this time because we
were making money off it. And also where the fuck
is the shadow? Don't go anywhere, guys. We'll be right

(33:33):
back with that bizarre stuff you crave.

Speaker 5 (33:35):
But just a quick reminder if you would like to
snag some gear from this show, inquiries of our reality
or one of your favorite creatures or topics, hop on
over to the Open Minds Media merch store for a
wide range of designs and new drops regularly and T
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Speaker 4 (34:05):
And we're back with the high strangs. Let's get back
into it.

Speaker 5 (34:08):
Okay, So we talked about some of the more like
otherworldly outlandish thoughts and theories. Now we're gonna, you know,
bring it back down to earth a little bit, no
pun intended. So there's a lot of skeptics that kind
of are unconvinced that this picture, you know, captured some
otherworldly entity. And there's this investigative journalist and folklorist named

(34:31):
doctor David Clark, and he has suggested that the figure
captured in the photo was actually Templeton's wife, Annie, and
he actually interviewed Jim Templeton in two thousand and two,
and he later said, quote, one of the other stills
taken that day shows Jim's wife, who, according to him,

(34:53):
was standing behind him when he took the photo of Elizabeth.
I think for some reason, his wife walked into the
shot and he didn't see her because with that particular
make of camera, you could only see seventy percent of
what was in the shot through the viewfinder. And Shane,
this is a good opportunity to bring up the next photo.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
In the PDF.

Speaker 4 (35:14):
Already Marty looking at him, Caau, you're already talking about it,
all right, go back up to this.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
One there you go.

Speaker 4 (35:23):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (35:23):
So this for the listeners out there, it's kind of
it's the original photo, but somebody has kind of put
some some sort of like square framing device around the
photo to show what like seventy percent of the frame
would have looked like supposedly what you could see through
the viewfinder of this camera. And if this is accurate,

(35:46):
you can truly only see like the very tip of
the figure's elbow behind the little girl's head. So how
accurate this is I don't know. But if you look
at this, you know, kind of diagram here, and this
is at you could see how you know, if you're
concentrating on taking this picture of your daughter, you wouldn't
see this figure in the background behind her. I mean,

(36:13):
don't look at the next one yet, Shane, I was
gonna say, I mean, I don't know. I feel like
you would still like there's the elbow moving there and
stuff like that. I don't know, you'd still maybe see
somebody walk in the background. But maybe it's a matter
of like, oh, okay, that was in the background. Then
later on when you take the picture, you just completely
fucking forgot that your brain even registered that, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 4 (36:33):
Then you're just like, what is this.

Speaker 5 (36:34):
Well, and it seems to me like you should have
seen even if that was the case, the figure walking
from the side, you know, like where the figure is standing.
Even if this diagram is accurate, there's still a lot
of space, like kind of to the right of the
little girl that this or or the left, I mean,
either way that this figure would have had to walk

(36:55):
into the frame, you know.

Speaker 4 (36:57):
Yeah, like again, you would have I feel like you
would have noticed something walking left or right after you
take the picture, you know, like oh my wits right there, like.

Speaker 5 (37:04):
Yeah, I mean, unless it like magically appeared in the
exact position when the photo was taken. And like we said,
there was a series of three photographs. This is the
middle one, and the previous photo or the subsequent one
did not capture this figure.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
So that's kind of weird.

Speaker 5 (37:24):
Like I don't know in what succession these were taken
how quickly, but it seems like if that was the case,
you know, one of the other two photos would have
captured this figure coming into or out of the frame.

Speaker 4 (37:38):
Do you have the other pictures that go in with or.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Never seen the other ones, which I think is kind
of interesting.

Speaker 4 (37:44):
Yeah, that almost kind of like can go two ways
of being questionable, Like I need to see these photos
to make like an honest conclusion of this.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (37:52):
Yeah, Like the only photo you see pretty much is
this one and another photo that we're going to talk
about here in a moment, but it's.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
Not the same pose and setting.

Speaker 4 (38:03):
See, they should have just for the sake of their argument,
they should have always included those other pictures with it.

Speaker 5 (38:10):
And you know, maybe it's one of those deals, Like
we said, this was the sixties. Maybe, I mean, things
are much different back then as far as like the
paranormal and all this sort of stuff. Maybe they just
like didn't think those two were noteworthy. And you know,
this one has survived the test of time and the
other two, you know, just got thrown away at some point.

Speaker 4 (38:27):
I mean, yeah, that's definitely possible too. I mean family
photo albums, man, and these pictures only last so long,
Like I mean, you see how bad uses fade out
depending where you store them at.

Speaker 5 (38:34):
So yeah, so uh kind of jumping back in, Doctor
David Clark went on to say, quote, I came away
absolutely convinced he was telling the truth and couldn't explain
it himself, although I was less convinced about his men
in black story. Whoever it was who visited him, I
don't think they're from the government. So basically, like everybody

(38:56):
who has talked to this guy, everybody who has looked
at the photo or like, you know, I don't know
what it was, but you know, his story seems legitimate,
the picture seems legitimate, and we're gonna get into a
little bit about what it actually could be now, But
do you have anything before we jump into that for.

Speaker 4 (39:14):
Sake of argument, The main person that really started writing
about the men in black phenomenon was John Keeler.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Correct, Yeah, one of the first people.

Speaker 4 (39:22):
Okay, So sixties seventies is what we're talking about, So.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Same general timeframe.

Speaker 4 (39:26):
Yeah, just to give some context here unless this well,
just I want to I want to be really specific.
Do you know when the Mothman prophecies came out?

Speaker 5 (39:36):
So I believe it came out like early seventies, but
I believe the actual accounts took place like sixty seven,
sixty eight something like that. So that's the worst a
few years after the actual phenomenon happened.

Speaker 4 (39:50):
Okay, So that fits into what I'm trying to mention here. Then,
So this guy, clearly being somebody that's probably not into
the paranormal like that, isn't sitting here doing this ground
breaking research because it wasn't as prominent at the time,
is making this reference of these men wearing black and jaguars.
You know, if the book Mothman Prophecies or any of

(40:11):
John Keel's writings like came out previous to this, then
there would be a little bit of doubt in my
mind with that. But the weirdness comes in that this
guy is describing exactly what John Keel ends up describing
years later, with no context.

Speaker 5 (40:24):
Well years later, but only a few years later the
same general time period, which is kind of nuts when
you really think about it.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
But regardless, this guy got interviewed and said this happened
before there was these writings about it. So that's kind
of where like my argument falls in that, you know,
maybe people believe that he made up the Men in
Black Encounter because I mean, the photo can be perceived
many different ways, but just the fact that he mentioned
the jaguars and the black suits before it was really
getting talked about. And again, the internet wasn't around. This

(40:54):
guy wasn't just going online and looking up like, oh,
men in Black Encounters, Alien Encounters, Like it's not something
that's just in the mind of the forefront unless you're
looking through some really fucking obscure books, and like your
local books are your library, So like just for that
part of the encounter, Like, I don't think you would
have had previous context for that, So it kind of
brings some like validity into it from my in my
mind at least.

Speaker 5 (41:15):
Yeah, everything that I've read, like this guy was a fireman,
Like he wasn't like a paranormal researcher or anything like this. Like, uh,
as far as I can tell, these were just like
normal folks. They were not you know, ed Lorraine Louren
or Warren excuse me, or anything like that, you know.

Speaker 4 (41:31):
And I mean even on top of that, this guy
is in England. You know, Kiel was writing about this
stuff in the US. And it's like again the times,
it's not like the internet was like oh read this
person's book, Like, I don't think this guy would have
had any reason or context to be like, oh I
had this weird experience. Let me find this book called
the Mothman Prophecies, Like I don't think there wouldn't have
been a connection to that, you know, Like this guy

(41:52):
is clearly like describing something that is already talked about
phenomenon with no previous context of it.

Speaker 5 (42:00):
So I think all those are good points. We're going
to bring up a few counter points. Now, So we
just talked about how you know this, Doctor David Clark
theorizes that the figure is just the wife who walked
into the background of the frame. And you might be
asking yourself, well, this thing looks so weird, why you know,

(42:21):
how could that be? So they say that Annie, the
wife was wearing a light blue sleeveless dress and she
had quote dark bobbed hair, and that apparently due to overexposure,
the whole figure like ended up appearing white and kind

(42:41):
of people who are proponents of this theory, they point
to the other photo who which excuse me, was taking
that same day that shows Annie, and that's what you've
got pulled up on the screen now, and you can
kind of see in this photo she is wearing a
light blue dress. You can see like the arm like

(43:04):
the armholes, I guess, yeah, And parts of the photo
do look very washed out and white. So this is,
you know, kind of an interesting picture to look at
in regards to the whole overexposure made it look like
this spaceman theory.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Do you have any thoughts on that?

Speaker 4 (43:21):
Before I move on, Uh, I'm gonna have to see
it in a little bit more context because I'm assuming
there's another one that's below it, but I don't know.
I'm gonna look at it a little bit closer before
I give any opinions on this one.

Speaker 5 (43:35):
Okay, so we're gonna move on to like a different
photo analysis, but this will kind of give you more
of a flavor for this whole thing. So it's also
been said that when you use photo software to like
darken the image, the photo like or the figure excuse me,
increasingly appears to like just look like a regular person

(43:56):
viewed from behind, and that when you mess with the contrast,
you can clearly see the neckline and the armholes of
Annie's dress.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
And that's this picture here.

Speaker 5 (44:06):
So on the left we've got the original and again
how legitimate this is, I don't know. But on the
right you've got kind of the souped up photo where
they've played with the contrast and all that.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
And if you look at that photo and.

Speaker 5 (44:21):
The previous one of Annie, yeah, where she's kind of
sitting on the ground, you can kind of see the armholes,
you can kind of see the dress. I mean, you
can't see her hair in the top one, but just
a little bit, but I mean it kind of looks
like that jives and makes sense if all of this
is legitimate.

Speaker 4 (44:39):
You know, I'm gonna try to look at this a
little bit closer. I'm gonna go to the bigger image
just to see if we can like see it in
this image, because this one looks like it's a little
bit better quality here.

Speaker 5 (44:50):
Yeah, so, like the main image that you always see,
the figure like almost appears to be completely white, except,
like you said, you can see like a neck line almost,
and it does appear to be some sort of like
helmet or mask type apparatus that it's wearing.

Speaker 4 (45:08):
All right, let me go back.

Speaker 5 (45:09):
Scroll up, scroll over a little bit to the right.
So I didn't notice this until we were just looking
at the picture. Blown up, you can see what appear
to be birds, like in the top right corner of
the picture, which kind of makes sense.

Speaker 4 (45:27):
This might be something on the lens because it is
an old, old case.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
It could be. Yeah, that's very true, it could be.

Speaker 5 (45:33):
But you know, I always thought it was a weird
kind of question that these men in black ask him
did he see any birds? And I just I never
noticed these spots whatever they are in the top right
of the frame until we just blew it up.

Speaker 4 (45:47):
That isn't on the other pictures too. I don't think
that's birds. It might be Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 5 (45:53):
Think you're right. After looking at the other ones. It
does look like just some kind of film quirk.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
The only thing that I will mention about the picture,
but I will say that it is pretty damn close.
But the only thing that it could just be a
matter of like an optical illusion or not. But if
you look at the image and you kind of zoom
in a bit, let's go back to this one. We'll
go to the big one again. All right, Looking at
the thing, it looks like there's something right here around

(46:22):
like the neck, and it doesn't appear that that's on
the dress itself, Like it almost kind of looks like
a hangover or something like that. And also this also
kind of looks like a chest. But on the other side,
could it also be somebody kind of like hunching forward
And it's actually the like protruding parts of your back
that are almost just at that perfect spot where it

(46:42):
almost kind of just looks like pecks of a chest.

Speaker 5 (46:45):
See, but I almost think if this is the wife
or a space man, it to me does look like
it's capturing the figure from the back, just like how
the arm is situated. That looks more like a position
that would be like viewed from the back and not
from the front. But maybe that's just you know, in
light of I've seen the other pictures, you.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
Know, you know what, I'm gonna have to chalk this
one up too. I'm gonna have to chalk this up
to a nineteen sixty four version of the Blue Gold
Dress phenomenon.

Speaker 2 (47:16):
Yeah, you can see whatever you want to.

Speaker 4 (47:17):
And because you can see whatever you want to in it,
because like it definitely looks like the dress. And as
much as I like to jump into like the theories
of like the paranormal and everything like that, the picture
definitely looks like his wife. But on the other side,
the weird other weirdness comes in with the other experiences

(47:39):
and encounters. Either one. The guy was straight up lying
and trying to cover his tracks because he already felt ridiculous,
which everybody's kind of been in that position at some point,
so I'm not gonna like, you know, he's already in
for an inch, like you just he doesn't want people
to start like calling him full, so he just starts
adding more to the story, so like, that's definitely a possibility,
or on the other side, you know, maybe there really

(48:00):
is something to it, Maybe he really did experience these
men in black encounters and stuff like. Honestly, after seeing
this photo back and forth, my guess would be that
he said he had something weird. People started diving into it.
He got a little bit too far into the hole,
and then he kept like expanding on it. But there's
still something in the back of my mind that's saying
this guy was making the reference to the black suits

(48:23):
and the jaguars. So like, I would basically assume that
this whole thing was unintentionally a hoax, unintentionally that got
out of control. But the only weird part to me
in the back of my mind still is just the
jaguars and in the description of the men in black.

Speaker 5 (48:40):
And I think that is a fantastic place to pause
before I share my final thoughts and conclusions.

Speaker 4 (48:47):
Hold that thought. We'll be right back after this brief
commercial break, and we are back to the show. Let's
hop right in.

Speaker 5 (49:02):
All right, So, yeah, kind of like you were just saying, Shane,
I'm pretty much completely on board with you. I think
the two most compelling pieces of quote unquote evidence that
support you know, this figure being some sort of other
worldly entity are the men in Black encounter and the
aborted missile launch. But you know, each of these things

(49:22):
are kind of supported only by Jim Templeton's own testimony,
and therefore, obviously you got to take them with a
lot of grains, assault and something else that I didn't
mention at the top of the episode because I wanted
to get through everything. So Templeton was like known locally
as like something of a photography buff, and he was

(49:45):
also like a local historian, so you know, this could
be a situation of where, you know, he knew a
good story when he saw it, you know, at the
end of the day, I think the most likely explanation
is that it was just Templeton's life that walked into
the frame and he didn't see her at the time.
Like you said, I don't believe they were necessarily trying

(50:07):
to perpetuate a hoax, but I think once it started
gaining notoriety, you know, he saw the value in this
story and they just kind of ran with it and
started like actively promoting this quote unquote mystery. And it's
also been suggested that you know, Templeton, like I said,
he was known locally as something of a photography buff

(50:29):
that he probably would have figured out at some point
in the you know, then the years after this.

Speaker 2 (50:35):
What had gone on.

Speaker 5 (50:37):
But because of like public scrutiny and you know, fear
of being ridiculed, he just kind of kept his mouth shut,
which you know, we talk about all the time on
the show, people not speaking up about something that happened
to him for fear of ridicule. This is kind of
the opposite. You know, he claimed that something did happen
to him and then maybe figured out that it didn't
and didn't say anything because of ridicule. So I think

(51:00):
that's kind of funny. And why I was so excited
to do this one is I think this just highlights
so much of the stuff we talk about on the show.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
You know.

Speaker 5 (51:09):
It shows how two things can be true at the
same time. You know, it shows how stories can become
exaggerated and distorted throughout time, and it shows like folklore
being created in real time. I mean, we talk all
the time about you know, wind to Go lore or
you know, vampire lore and things like that that go

(51:30):
back hundreds or thousands of years that we have this
whole like cultural framework for this is something that basically
just happened, you know, a blink of an eye ago
in you know, astrological terms, and so we're seeing like
this story growing and being created in real time. So that's,

(51:51):
you know, kind of part of the reason I wanted
to share this because I just think it highlights so
many cool things we talk about on the show.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
And it's, like you said, it's not a.

Speaker 5 (52:00):
Story that I've heard on a lot of podcasts, so
I thought it would be cool to talk about.

Speaker 4 (52:04):
I mean, just to throw in some other ideas on
this one too, just so we don't sound like we're
talking bad about this guy. Like I don't think that,
like you said, I don't think he did this intentionally.
I think that he had a picture, he thought it
was interesting, and then once everything started rolling, he kind
of just went with it because he didn't want to
be called out like, oh, you're a hoax, you were

(52:26):
faking the whole time, because that wasn't necessarily the case.
So it's just like once he got rolling, he kind
of got like stuck in that position. But on the
other flip side, you know.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
The spaceman photograph guy.

Speaker 5 (52:37):
Yeah, exactly, that's what when you're not the spaceman photograph guy.

Speaker 4 (52:41):
That's what I was gonna mention too. You said that
this guy was also a local historian, so you know,
every historian wants to become part of the history, you know,
and he did. So, I mean, does it seem that
far off that this guy had an interesting picture, said
oh cool, like I might end up Well, it could
be to one of two ways. Either one he hoaxed
the whole thing because he wanted to be part of
the history, or to think so he found that he

(53:03):
got the picture, he said, oh, this is cool, like
it's going to become part of the history. And then
it started rolling. And then after that he was kind
of like, I still want to remain part of the history,
you know what I mean. Like, Yeah, I.

Speaker 5 (53:12):
Think, like you said, I don't think this was hoaxed
in any way. I don't think they plan this. I
think it was just kind of a freak occurrence thing.
And I think probably legitimately, at first they were freaked
out by this. They didn't realize what had happened. But
I have to think somewhere, you know, in the interim
they probably kind of put two and two together, and

(53:33):
I was.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
Like, yeah, that's probably what happened.

Speaker 5 (53:36):
Like, you know, I was kind of like you, I
was all in on this, and then when you start
kind of seeing the other pictures and the explanations, it
becomes much easier to be like, yeah, it's probably an
Ockham's razor situation. You know, simplest solution is the correct one.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
It was just his wife. But you know, it's a
super fun story either way.

Speaker 4 (53:55):
I mean, it's still also a like a thought experiment
or like a philosophical experiment though, because diving into all
this phenomenon, whether you prove it or you disprove it,
you still just ran through hoops and hurdles in your mind,
exercising all different possibilities, all different they all make sense,
and they all make sense. So like at the end
of the day, it's like, you know, people will see
something and say like, oh, this is false, and they

(54:17):
just throw it out and they feel like they're wasted
their time. It's like, no, you didn't waste your time
because you just did the process of process and elimination.
You did the research, you came to a conclusion for it,
and in turn now you now are better at investigating
phenomenon just simply because of that. Like, you know, it's
always a good thought experiment to be able to get
into some irrational thought but still be able to bring

(54:39):
it back to rational thought by the end. You know,
like it's just it's good for the sake of research,
you know, like whether it's true or false. You know.

Speaker 5 (54:46):
Well, and that's why I purposefully kind of formatted the
episode and the information.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
Like I did. I wanted to lead with all kind
of the.

Speaker 5 (54:54):
Craziness and then kind of you know, bring us back
down to earth and deflate the balloon a little bit
here at end.

Speaker 4 (55:00):
But that tends to be how we go on the shows,
that we start getting into these ridiculous theories and then
by the end, like you and I are very logically minded,
where it's like we think of all this quote irrational
stuff to most people, but we form that conclusion through
rational thinking. And then when you get to the end
and there is no rational thinking other than like.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
Yeah there's something weird happening.

Speaker 4 (55:21):
Yeah, yeah, then it's just you know, it's a good spot,
you know, like it's a good way of doing things,
and it's a good way to like rational, like the things,
and like the way that we research. Between the two
of us, Like I said, we'll get crazy with some stuff,
but we always bring it down to what I feel,
in our definition at least is the most rational explanation
of any phenomenon that we investigate.

Speaker 5 (55:40):
Yeah, and this was a fun one to do because
it's something that we basically, you know, through my research
and us just talking about it, we kind of debunked
it in our own minds as.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
We went along.

Speaker 5 (55:51):
So, I mean, for all you listeners out there who
might think we get a little off the rails and
you know, just always are talking about portals and time
travel and stuff like that, you know, can be capable
of saying, now, this is probably just a normal, totally
explainable thing that happened, And this is one of those cases.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Hey.

Speaker 4 (56:08):
Another prime example in an earlier episode that I think
was one of my favorite conclusions that we came to
because I still haven't heard anybody mention it brain farting
on the name of the creature, it was that it
was from North Carolina. The thing that was like eating
things and crushing their heads.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
The Beast of Blatin Burrough.

Speaker 4 (56:23):
That's it. Yep, the Beast of Blainborough. By the end
of that one, we got to the fact that around
that time everybody had pet hyenas, and then all of
a sudden they made it illegal to have hyenas, so
everybody let their hyenas out. And then when you start
actually looking into how hyenas eat things, they'll like crush
the skull and everything. So it was like that. I
feel like we came to the most rational explanation on
that one too. I think it was just somebody's pet

(56:43):
hyena that they let out because of the laws changing,
and it just went to town on some livestock for
a little bit. But it became this whole crazy thing
of folklore that everybody still like the police Beast of Blainenborough,
the Police of been Blatinborough. But at the end, it's
like you look into everything at the time and I
feel like there's no other ration explanation over then it
was just it was a hyena.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
It was something totally normal and explainable.

Speaker 4 (57:06):
Which sounds irrational now, but back then it was like, dude, like,
who is it Teddy Roosevelt had a pat hyena, Like
it sounds ridiculous, but like it was a normal thing.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Then like, of course that motherfucker did.

Speaker 4 (57:17):
Dude. Yeah, he took that hyena with him to go
crypt it hunting Man. He tracked down the New Jersey
Devil with that fucking thing. He used to Also, just
another fun fact because I find this hilarious. He had
it trained so well that it was like it would
follow him around. It would heal like, it would act
like a dog for this guy. But he used to
do this thing apparently that he was famous for, where
he had somebody knew that would come to the White
House and he would just let the hyena into whatever

(57:38):
room they were in, give him a fucking heart attack,
and then come in and be like heal.

Speaker 5 (57:44):
Man, don't let Trump hear this story. He's damn sure
gonna have a hyena.

Speaker 4 (57:47):
People get mad about Trump and all these like eccentric
presidents like bro look into Teddy Roosevelt like that dude
was the most eccentric motherfucker ever. But he sounds like
he'd probably be the most fun person sit down and
talk to at a party.

Speaker 5 (58:01):
I still think you need to do your Teddy Roosevelt
crypton Hunter episode.

Speaker 4 (58:06):
Dude, I will do that at some point. I'm gonna
make sure I put on the list, because I actually
have a list going here now for episodes that I
want to cover. But like, oh my god, man, like
if I could go back in a time machine, I
would just go on like a hunting trip with Teddy Roosevelt.
Like they tell me, that would not be the experience
of a lifetime. I feel like this would be the
type of dude. He'd be like, you want to see
something funny, and he'd just throw like a stick of

(58:26):
dynamite into the fucking woods and just give everybody a
fucking heart attack and be like, I don't know what happened.
I must have beene a Sasquatch.

Speaker 5 (58:33):
Well, while you're time traveling with Teddy Roosevelt, if you
run into this allway Firth space man, tell him.

Speaker 4 (58:39):
I said, hold on, do Teddy Roosevelt, and I if
I go back in time, I'm gonna have a whole
conversation with this guy. Everybody thinks that he died. He
didn't actually die, man, He went off on adventures with
me to go and hunt creatures through time. And the
reason why we have him able to catch up with sasquatch,
we haven't able to catch up with any of these
creatures is because Teddy Roosevelt and I went back in
time and we took all He's motherfucker's out for you,

(59:01):
well mainly Seeddy Roosevelt. I wanted to research, he wanted
to kill. I can't help him.

Speaker 5 (59:06):
Okay, I've got no good segue back into the material,
but I use I'm.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
Sorry, I'm out of control. I apologize for that.

Speaker 4 (59:14):
I figured Alex should formally apologize for us.

Speaker 5 (59:16):
Okay, I do have a couple quotes that I want
to share to kind of close this one out. So
this first quote comes from rationalwiki dot org and it says,
quote Templeton's lifelong claims were technically sincere. There was no
one else with them that day, and he really didn't
see anything other than his daughter when he took the photo,

(59:38):
and the photo wasn't manipulated, faked, or staged in any way.
And I thought this was kind of a fun quote,
and it just showed again stuff we talked about on
the show, the power of perception and how two things
can be true at the same time, and how most experiencers.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
Like actually truly believe what they're saying.

Speaker 4 (59:57):
Not to mention the fact that diving I've been diving
like heavily into psychology lately, and I'm sure this kind
of goes without saying, but for anybody that hasn't, like
put the two and two together. You experience something, you
see this image in your head, you have your perception
of it, and every single time that you retell that story,
you read whatever that story you rethink about that story,

(01:00:19):
you're just solidifying it more in your mind, meaning that
like there may be like say, I saw a sasquatch
and this thing had these giant, sharp pointed teeth. Every
single time you tell that story, your perception is being
changed in your own mind to start sting fishing stories
your own narrative. Yes, so it's not even that you
intentionally dramaticize your story, but rather that each time you

(01:00:39):
tell it, if there's a little piece that gets stretched,
even if you don't realize it, that is now part
of that in your mind. So you end up warping
your own concept of your own experience by retelling it
and solidifying it in your own mind.

Speaker 5 (01:00:53):
No, I think that makes perfect sense, especially you know
with these like crazy, weird, scary encounters that be people
have with like sasquatch and things of that nature.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
Yeah, because you just you resee that image, it gets
burned in your head and it's a trauma experience on
top of that. So again that trauma experience always gets
over exaggerated in your own mind of course, because it's
from your own perception. So it's like, regardless of what
you do, like you, it's not even just playing telephone,
like you alter your own perception unintentionally subconsciously.

Speaker 5 (01:01:22):
Yeah, like you said, perception, it's a powerful thing and
you know, all walks of life, but especially in this
kind of situation.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Stay tuned, guys. This is our last break.

Speaker 4 (01:01:33):
But if you guys enjoyed the show and think we
deserve it, please leave a review or rating for the
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Your continued support is what makes this show possible and
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to the show and.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Getting back to the bizarre.

Speaker 5 (01:02:02):
So the last quote I'm going to leave you guys
with tonight, it's from a doctor, David Clark, who we
talked about earlier in the episode and it comes via
BBC dot com, and he says, quote, people now are
much more cynical about these kinds of pictures. Back in
the fifties and sixties, you got a few grainy stills
showing extraordinary things. People were much more surprised and willing

(01:02:23):
to suspend disbelief. For me, it's one of the most
impressive anomalous images in supernatural investigations, and people will still
be talking about it in another fifty years.

Speaker 4 (01:02:33):
It's the nineteen sixty poor version of the dress picture. Yeah,
that's a little a great place to leave off. I mean,
that's kind of our whole conversation tonight in a nutshell. So,
like I said, this was a super fun one to do.
I haven't fallen like this penis deep into a subject
in a long time. Yeah, oh, I've got no chill,

(01:02:56):
But yeah, so this is a fun one, Shane.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
I hope you and enjoyed it. I hope the listeners
enjoyed it.

Speaker 5 (01:03:01):
I know this is kind of an odd ball thing
that a lot of people haven't heard of, but I
think it's a really cool story and.

Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
That's what you want to enjoy doing it. So I
don't care you want to hit some oddball stuff for people,
because you know, like I said, there's the main cryptid
you want to cover. You want to give your own
viewpoints and everything like that on it. But when you
once in a while just find these obscure stories that
nobody talks about, like this is the prime stuff that
you want for the show man, Like I love this
kind of shit, like the if you find this little
obscure stuff like this, like let's let's just start hitting this.

(01:03:27):
Let's that's what I try to do with the Michigan episode.
And I guess that's the niche man. You just got
to find shit that nobody knows about.

Speaker 5 (01:03:34):
Well, we've talked about a lot of the cryptids, We've
talked about a lot of alien stuff. We've talked about
some conspiracies. At some point, you just got to find
some weird uh stones to unturned and I think this
is one of those.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
That's all I got for you guys tonight.

Speaker 4 (01:03:48):
And on that note, if you guys enjoyed today's conversation
and you guys want to show some love, smash that
follow icon and share today's episode with a friend. Grassroots
support from listeners just like you, guys is exactly how
the show grows. So again, thank you guys.

Speaker 5 (01:04:02):
And if anybody wants to get in touch with us
for any reason whatsoever, you can do that through what Shane.

Speaker 4 (01:04:08):
You can email us at Bizarre Encounters at outlook dot com,
or you guys can get ahold of us through social media.
Instagram and Facebook are the ones that are the most
active on but if you find us anywhere, just shoot
us a message and we will definitely get back to you.
Of course, you guys can also get ahold of us
through our submission form which is available on our link
tree directly up at the top, so you guys can
find that one quick and easy. And the last means
of being able to get ahold of Us is to

(01:04:28):
call into our hotline number and that number is three
one three, three six four one five five to one
and if you happen to miss that, it is available
down in the show notes, so you guys can find
that quick and easy.

Speaker 5 (01:04:38):
And you guys please be sure to check out our
friends and sponsors and show them some love. We've got
I know, squatch for all your Squatchy gear needs. We've
got Snarly Yoo natural products. Our buddy Dave he's making
some great body wash and beard oils and things of
that nature.

Speaker 4 (01:04:55):
A lot of crazy new events going on this year too,
So everybody recommend checking in to him because I think
he's got two new ones that he's starting. One of
them is a hot rod show for hearses that I
just want to throw out there, So take the opportunity
when you got it. Check out the awesome stuff Dave's
doing because all the events are usually free too, so
I just had to throw that one in there.

Speaker 5 (01:05:11):
Hot Rod for Hearses is like the best name for
an emo band.

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
Ever, hot Rod for Hearses, hot Rod Hearses. It almost
kind of sounds like it'd be like a goth alternative band.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
There you go, we should start one.

Speaker 5 (01:05:25):
So also, you guys check out Joe at Cryptoteology for
all your webbe bowl equiptids and also big ape threads.

Speaker 4 (01:05:32):
I'm just gonna take a moment to say that I
appreciate all of those little remembrances of the past.

Speaker 5 (01:05:38):
And it's a steel trap up here. Once it's up here,
it's not gone unless I'm drunk.

Speaker 4 (01:05:42):
I don't feel like I could get rid of it now.
I just wrote in the words and the notes for
just the direct sponsors, and you just did that old naturally,
and I appreciate the fact that you remembered.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
All of it all natural. That's how I keep it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:52):
And on the other end, if you guys want to
check out are awesome friends with affiliate links. We got
dimension devices over there making some awesome paranormal investigating products.
Previous guests on the show. Of course, you guys can
always go back and check out that way in the
past episode. You guys can also go and check out Organite.
And the last one you guys can check out is
Stick or Mule, And we of course have additional discounts
and credits available, and all more information on those is

(01:06:15):
available down in the show notes. And every single thing
that we mentioned throughout the show, of course, is all
available in link tree, which is available again down on
that show description. And with that, I have been the
one that they call Shane Squatch, and.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
I have been the big bad boo Daddy orn.

Speaker 4 (01:06:31):
Felix, And like I tell you guys, every single show,
and just like that last guy who all the whole show,
he's just telling Daddy to chill, You guys always always
stay bizarre, bizarre bizarre.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
The dress is white and gold.

Speaker 4 (01:07:01):
Bart At insulted into the resort people in

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