#115 The Nain Rouge Legend of Detroit

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Any one, and then looked out and there was this big, red,
blinking UFO.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
I can just say this, something's going on in the woods.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Something's going on.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
They're not dogs, they're not coyotes.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
What could it be?

Speaker 4 (00:31):
Right?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
I had an encounter with a skunk cake and it
completely altered the course of my life. I got a
call walk on building about what about sighting.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
Of a uf fo hovering over a farm? Really woke
up from a dream, and when I went into the bedroom,
she said, there's a monster on the wall.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
They saw that the creature had run through a barb
wire fence.

Speaker 4 (00:56):
That they were able to obtain cares.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
They sent the hairs to their lab and it came
back as an online creature. Creature creatures shoring oo.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
What is up?

Speaker 4 (01:14):
Bizarre Rights and welcome back to the most bizarre showing
the Internet. I am the one that's like tune people
now call Shane Squatch, and alongside me, I have the
big bad Boo Daddy himself, mister Orrin Felix. Live and
in person, always live and in person, or at least

(01:36):
this time, since we're doing lives now, we are kind
of actually live and in person now instead of live
a week prior.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, speaking of being live and in person, our next
live in person episode of Bizarre Inquiries is going to
be on Thursday, June the fifth. It's going to be
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(02:03):
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We've had a lot of good participation in the past
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Speaker 4 (02:19):
And if you guys don't mind going and checking out
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of course, but with the roles a little bit reversed
as far as Sasquatch has the allotments and the alien
has the joint where I think that would be switched
in this dynamic over here, but regardless, I felt like
it kind of fit the picture better. So you got

(02:40):
this awesome design where you have a sasquatch sipping the beer,
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(03:00):
you will have to listen to Increase of Our Reality
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Speaker 2 (03:04):
Oh that's a teaser.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
There you go.

Speaker 4 (03:06):
I didn't want to advertise on this show. I figured
keep that over there, so.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
All right, And I kind of circling back to live
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Be sure to kind of check out the Open Minds
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Speaker 2 (03:50):
So and if anybody wants to be a guest on
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There always a viable option also.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
And as always, all this shit we've mentioned is in
the link tree in the show description. So before we
jump into tonight's material, this is one that Shane kind
of put together. It's something that is close to his
heart metaphorically and physically. One something was super familiar with.
So I think it's gonna be a fun one for

(04:38):
me to learn a little bit about, and I'm sure
you guys will enjoy learning about it too. So, Shane,
without further ado, why don't you tell everybody what we're
gonna be talking about tonight.

Speaker 4 (04:47):
So this one las you kind of mentioned is a
little bit near and dear to me as far as
it is one of the og pieces of Detroit folklore.
I kind of feel like it's one of those kind
of forgotten ones as far as Detroit, because you don't
usually think of folklore and you think of Detroit. But
once I started really diving into this, I realized that
Detroit is a very sacred land as far as like

(05:07):
the natives and everything go. And then all these French
traders started coming in and all this weird stuff started happening.
So honestly, there's probably going to be a lot more
diving into some of this Detroit stuff because honestly, digging
into the land, I found a lot of stuff that
I really haven't heard anybody really mention or talk about.
But at least the one we are going to be
getting into today, because I've heard one or two other
podcasts do it in the past, but they weren't Detroit

(05:29):
or so I felt like they know I needed to
throw my part in andto it, just being from the
Detroit area. So we are going to be diving into
the Nine Rouge today. And for anybody that may not
be familiar with what the Nine Rouge is, the Nine
Rouge is a figure deeply embedded in the folklore of Detroit.
It holds a significant place in Detroit's cultural identity. Often

(05:51):
described as a harbinger of doom, its appearance is said
to precege misfortune for the area. This mythical creature is
not merely a historical footnote, but remains an active part
of Detroit's culture and mythology, evident by the annual March
Day Nine Rouge Parade, a modern tradition that drusts thousands
to midtown Detroit each year. This legends enduring nature speaks

(06:13):
to its persistence held on the collective imagination of detroitter's
and as you guys have caught there, you know the
whole harbinger of doom idea. We are definitely going to
be diving into that, because not only does this thing
have one appearance before bad things happen in Detroit. But
almost every bad thing that's happened in Detroit, this thing
has made an appearance before. So it is definitely a
harbinger of doom more so than what most people kind

(06:35):
of associate that name with.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
So it's a very busy little goblin.

Speaker 4 (06:39):
Is a very very busy little goblin. Okay, But you know,
due to all of the hard times that have hit Detroit, though,
it has made people I feel, be very strong willed
towards the city where it's kind of one of those
things that through trauma breeds people that are very very
strong suited and just very like hold the city to heart.
But it's one of those things for me that it's

(07:00):
like it's always been really really hard to do that
for Detroit, just because you know, I never really saw
it during any of the good times. I've seen it
pretty beat up the majority of its life. But you know,
some of the die hard Boomers and gen Z's, you know,
they sat to see the good side of Detroit before
everything started kind of going downhill. So you know, those
people definitely hold Detroit very close to their heart.

Speaker 2 (07:19):
Fuck Detroit till I'm on the fucker.

Speaker 4 (07:24):
All right, calm down, Kid Rock. We didn't need your introduction.
We get that you're passionate about Detroit, but this is
not the place for you. Kid Rock, go away.

Speaker 2 (07:32):
I didn't know Kid Rock was going to be making
an appearance tonight.

Speaker 4 (07:34):
Of course, some of the Detroit boys will be making
in parents today. You'll just have to wait and figure
out which ones they might be, because as they say, wow, they.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
Know how to party in Detroit.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
Huh okay.

Speaker 4 (07:46):
But diving back in today to what we're diving into.
The name nine Rouge itself offers insight into the legends origins.
Translated from the French word for red dwarf or red gnome,
the moniker immediately conjures and of a small, perhaps mischievous being.
This is further enforced by the alternative name often associated
with the creature demon of the Strait, a reference to

(08:09):
the Detroit River, the narrow waterway that defines the city's geography.
The color red in folklore often symbolizes danger, blood, or
even potent connections to the earth and nature, while the
term dwarf typically implies a being of small stature, often
associated with the supernatural or trickery. Given Detroit's French colonial history,

(08:31):
dating back to its founding by Antoine di les Motte Cadillac.
The French name is a clear indicator of the legend's
early European roots in the region, even though there are
no records that indicate the legend of the Nine Rouge
prior to the eighteen eighties. And actually I did find
a copy of this book. I found a PDF of it.

(08:51):
We're not going to dive into the full story today
because I did kind of rewrite it a little bit,
because it is an a bit of I guess you
could say, like old English slash kind of French mixture,
so it kinda kind of gets confusing. It's a little
bit easier just to uh, to paraphrase the paraphrase it. Yes,
that was what I was looking for. Here, I'm trying
to see if I can bring it up. I know
I have it up here there, it is all right,

(09:12):
this is the picture I want to bring up because
this was technically the very first picture supposed to the
drawn of the Nine Rouge, which is definitely worth interest,
of course.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
But the Nine Rouge.

Speaker 4 (09:22):
First appeared in Marie Caroline Watson Hamilton's eighteen eighty three
book Legends of Les dis Twitt, which is exactly what
this is over here on the other screen. While she
describes the Nine Rouge as a dwarf, very red in
the face, with a bright glistening eye and with a
grinning mouth displaying sharp pointed teeth. The Nine Rouge was

(09:44):
then included in Charles M. Skimmer's eighteen ninety six book
Myths and Legends of Our Own Land, described as a
shambling red face creature with a cold, glistening eye and
teeth protruding from a grinning mouth. And like I mentioned,
I kind of summarized the story a little bit, but
before we get into the story, I wanted to give

(10:04):
everybody kind of just a brief description on who Antoine
d les Mout Cadillac was. And I'll kind of throw
in my piece after I kind of get past this paragraph.
But Antoine de Lemult Cadillac was a French explorer and
an administrator in New France, best known for founding Detroit
in seventeen oh one. He was an ambitious and often

(10:25):
controversial figure who also served as the Governor of Louisiana.
While recognized for his strategic vision in establishing key settlements,
he faced criticism for his dealings and self promotion. His
legacy endures through the city he founded and the luxury
car brand that bears his name, hence the name Cadillac.
As everybody, I'm sure he's familiar, But as I was

(10:46):
diving into this guy a little bit, some of the
stuff that I kind of brought up was that he
was a very arrogant person. From everything that I heard,
he thought that he could do no wrong, like he
was the best that there ever was. So it kind
of fits in that he would be the one that
would end up dooming Detroit because as you as we
get into from this next tale, he definitely does not

(11:07):
show the nine Rouge any needs of respect. But hold
on tight, guys. We'll be right back after this brief
commercial break.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
But in the meantime, don't forget to follow Bizarre Encounters
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(11:38):
And now.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
Back to the show.

Speaker 4 (11:41):
All right, So diving into the story, I don't know
if you want me to try to skim through this
as awful as I tend to read, or if you
want to use your little bit more professional reader voice
for this.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
But we can do it either way, my friend.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
I mean, however you want to do it. I'm fine
reading the story if you want me to.

Speaker 4 (11:56):
All right, I'll let you read just the story portion.
At least the listeners don't have to deal with me
too much skimming through stuff.

Speaker 2 (12:03):
All right, well, I will do my best. The crisp
autumn air nipped at Antoine de la Motte Cadillac's cheeks
as he surveyed his fledgling settlement on the banks of
the Detroit River. Dreams of a prosperous fur trading hub
danced in his ambitious mind, but whispers like the rustling
of the leaves followed him. An old woman, her face

(12:25):
a road map of wrinkles, had warned him about a
creature of ill omen, a red dwarf known as the
nine Rouge. Respect him, Monsieur Cadillac, She'd croak, her eyes
glistening with an unsettling knowing. Ignore him, and misfortune will
cling to your city like river mist. Cadillac, a man
of action, and perhaps a touch of arrogance, scoffed at

(12:47):
such peasant superstitions. He had tamed the wilderness. A tiny
red imp held no fear for him. Kiss my ass, now, God,
is that a direct quote?

Speaker 4 (13:00):
Yeah, that was a direct quote of exactly what happened
when they were like respect this thing. He was like,
kiss my ass. Seems legit seems pretty legit.

Speaker 3 (13:08):
Right.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
So, one blistery afternoon, as the muddy banks of the
river turned, Cadillac strode purposefully, his cane, tipping a tapping,
excuse me, a brisk rhythm against the uneven ground. Suddenly,
a flash of red caught his eye. There, squatting near
a tangle of driftwood was the creature from the old
woman's tails. It was small, no bigger than a stout dog,

(13:30):
covered in bristly red fur, with eyes that glowed and
an unsettling intensity. Its teeth, even from a distance, looked
sharp and wicked. Instead of heating the warning, a surge
of irritation rose within Cadillac. This grotesque little beast dared
to sully the landscape of his grand vision. He marched
toward it, his face darkening. Get out of my sight,

(13:52):
you foul thing, he bellowed, raising his cane. So kind
of exactly what you just said in the little sound
bite there.

Speaker 4 (13:59):
Exactly kissed my ass, little bastard, a little red bastard.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
The Nine Rouge, startled by the outburst, looked up at
the imposing figure of Cadillac. For a moment, their gaze
is locked. Then a high pitched mocking laugh echoed across
the river bank.

Speaker 4 (14:15):
As the creature I was adding side effects.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
It was not another direct quote.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
That's the Nine Ruge. That's what happened as it ran away.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
As the creature darted away, disappearing into the undergrowth, Cadillac,
still fuming, dismissed the encounter. But the old woman's words
soon echoed with chilling accuracy. Accusations of corruption and mismanagement
began to plague him. His authority waned, his dreams of
prosperity soured, and eventually he was stripped of his command

(14:46):
and even faced imprisonment. As for Detroit, a shadow seemed
to fall over the Virgin In Settlement, fires swept through
the wooden buildings, battles raged within its walls, and unrest
simmered beneath the surface. Each misfortune whispered the fearful townsfolk
was a consequence of Cadillac's disrespect. A ripple effect of

(15:06):
the Nine Rouges curse. Generations passed and the legend of
the Nine Rouge persisted. Sightings became omens whispered warnings before
trying to eat struck. The red dwarf became an unwelcome
yet strangely familiar specter in the city's folklore. Then, one
spring day, the people of Detroit decided that they had

(15:27):
had enough of misfortune. They gathered in vibrant costumes, their
faces painted in defiance, and marched through the streets in
a spirited procession. They banged drums, sang boisterously, and carried
effigies of the mischievous red imp. This became the March
Nine Rouge, a yearly ritual to symbolically banish the creature

(15:48):
and ward off bad luck.

Speaker 4 (15:50):
So, before we get into other historical sightings, I want
to get some of your thoughts on this so far,
and I have some additional stuff I gotta throw in
at this point too, but I'll let you kind of
throw your thoughts on what's your kind of thing of
this thing so far?

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Yeah, So I think this is a really cool one.
I think it is very similar to a lot of
things we've talked about on the show in the past.
I mean, obviously you've got kind of like elemental faith
folk type situation. Obviously harbinger of Doom Mothman. We talked
about a lot, even like Snarly Yoo, And if I'm
not mistaken, there's some stuff in the notes a little

(16:23):
later on that I think is also kind of reminiscent
of the Snarly Yow. But I also thought this was
kind of interesting, the tidbit about bright glistening eyes that
kind of reminded me of the moon eyed people that
we talked about in kind of Cherokee Appalachian folklore, where
it's a very similar type, you know, little dwarfish type

(16:45):
creature with large glistening eyes. Let's see what else I
wrote down here. I think that was most everything I had.
The only other thing I would add, and this is
not something super specific to the Nine Rouge it so,
but just in general, I did not realize how much
like French history that Detroit had, which I guess makes sense.

(17:10):
It's kind of you know, French Canadian Montreal. It was
kind of close to all that. But you know, you
always hear about Marty Gras and you know, Louisiana and
Cajun culture and all that, But I never realized that
Detroit had so much French culture. And this March Day
nine rouge sounds a lot like Marti Graus, so I

(17:30):
thought that was kind of cool too.

Speaker 4 (17:32):
So I mean, just to throw some stuff in here,
I think I told you before the show. But obviously
everything kind of gets English Americanized as things end up
going through the years. But like Detroit, the technical way
you would have said it would have been d twats,
like it would have been like like a French word.
And even like throughout Michigan, we have a lot of
spots that a lot of people can't pronounce because they're
technically French words, like Saint Marie, like it's spelt totally

(17:54):
not like that, and like Mackinaw it's spelt completely not
what it looks like it said. Like, once you actually
start diving into it, you realize that like Michigan is
just basically was all French fur trappers realistically, and like
the natives up until like you know, late mid eighteen
hundreds realistically, because it was still a like a like
a territory when the Civil War and everything was going on,
It wasn't actually wasn't actually made into a state until

(18:17):
I think late eighteen hundreds if I'm not mistaken, like
eighteen eighty something, if I'm not mistaken. But yeah, it
was just rough, wide open territory, just full of fur
trappers and wild animals and that was that was basically
it for Michigan. But for all of that, it's like
people diving into history. You know, most people when they
dive into history, they're looking at it from the point
of like when colonial civilization realistically showed up. But you know, Detroit,

(18:40):
everybody kind of has this idea of it. But me
diving into all this stuff now, it's like I didn't
realize how much like deep folklore there was for Detroit specifically,
and as I was mentioning earlier, like Detroit specifically was
like sacred land, which completely makes sense why this curse
would happen from this guy coming in and essentially just
completely taking this land. And the other kind of weird
part that I was gonna mention, I didn't really know

(19:02):
where to stick it in the notes, but uh, I know,
I think I mentioned this on a previous show. But
we have something called the Masonic Temple in Detroit, and
everybody knows that as this like concert venue, but you
start diving into the history of it, and this place
was actually founded by Crowley himself. So diving into like
the weirdness of Detroit, you have the start of this
weird red faylike imp You have all this weird underlying

(19:24):
like a cult history baked into Detroit. You got Crowley
himself showing up to create a Masonic Temple here like,
and then you have all these weird structures downtown, Like
they have this one that it looks like a giant
portal to me, I can't see it as anything else,
but but they say it like represents Detroit. But there's
this particular like stone where it looks like souls like
trapped inside of like a portal or something like. There

(19:45):
is so much like a cult underlining to Detroit that
I don't like. It seems like it's been hidden like
for for a very long time, like it's been basically
since like the origin of the city. Because I mean,
you dive into like a lot of the occult stuff
and it's all rooted in these like paganistic idea is,
and I mean the imp the whole like green Man concept,
like all of that is all kind of seems like

(20:06):
it's rooted in the same place. But again, is that
just like the Europeans putting their views on stuff or
is it another thing where like we talked about the show,
the phenomenon is happening everywhere, and it's just everybody kind
of has different names for these things because the natives,
I mean, we'll dive into it a little bit, but
they were even talking about these like this little red
if type being but it wasn't documented until the eighteen hundreds,

(20:29):
like I mentioned, But there's still the stories around.

Speaker 3 (20:31):
It's still word of mouth.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
But oh yeah, and as we've talked about in so
many of these like older folklore type stories, it's amazing
to me, like how similar a lot of the European
folklore is to Native American folklore, which again kind of
to me is evidence that, like you said, there is
just this global phenomena that's going on. And you know,

(20:57):
one tribe I don't know, Moon Eyed person is an
English settlement's nine Rouge. You know, it's like we talk
about all the time. It could be you know, just
multiple names for the same thing. But again that kind
of becomes a chicken or egg situation. Did these European settlers,

(21:21):
you know, kind of bring this folklore with them and
then kind of imprint it on what was already here
or vice versa. So I think, you know, all that
kind of stuff's really fun to think about.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
I mean, even the land itself.

Speaker 4 (21:31):
It's like, and you talk about these native curses as
you want to call them, is that even necessarily the case,
because there's two ways of viewing it. There's either one
these were sacred lands and there was some type of
curse or something put on it, or on the flip
side of it, they were sacred lands because something was here,
and the natives never cursed anything or did anything like that.
It was more so a matter of the natives knew,

(21:52):
like this is the area for this thing. We leave
it alone, you know, we come in, we show our respect,
we leave, like they know, we don't settle here. But
then when this colonists come in, they just start settling
in those spots and they think that the natives were
cursing them, but it was never them. It was just
the natives being like, no, this is the territory of
something else, like we don't come here.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah. No, I think that's a really interesting thought and
it makes a lot of sense to me, Like, I mean,
the idea of sacred places and you know, places you
just don't go. It makes sense that you know, arrogant
European settlers would just come in and be no fuck
that we're taking this land and we're settling it. You know, Yeah,

(22:31):
this is my land now, bitch, yeah, fuck them curses.

Speaker 4 (22:36):
All right, Before we get into the other settings, I'm
gonna bring up this image. I meant to bring it
up during the last talking about the story and everything,
but this was supposedly this image that was created after
the story. So this is supposedly Cadillac with the nine rouge,
which again, looking at this image, it looks very European
folklore to.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
Me, Yeah for sure. I mean it looks very you know,
dwarf elf Christmasy. I mean it's just like the visual
image you would have of like European dwarf Folkalore pretty much.

Speaker 4 (23:08):
And this guy's just holding his cane to it like
kiss my ass. Will you have the direct quote?

Speaker 2 (23:13):
If I'm not mistaken, good South, we do.

Speaker 4 (23:14):
Let me let me play it for you guys again.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
Kiss my ass, No go, this's a good sound.

Speaker 4 (23:21):
Don't go anywhere, guys. We'll be right back with that
bizarre stuff you crave.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
But just a quick reminder if you would like to
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That's oddly specific plus shipping.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
And we're back with the high strangeness.

Speaker 4 (23:57):
Let's get back into it all right, diving back into
some of the other sightings, because I was trying to
get a really good timeline of all these different sightings
that were seen of this thing, and it seems like
they're pretty scattered throughout a lot of stuff. So I
tried to do my best to kind of get some
of the timeline together. There was one I actually did miss,
which I will throw in at the end here. But
first we'll get into the main sightings of this thing

(24:17):
past Cadillac, of course, So diving into other historical sightings,
the belief in the nine Rouge is not merely sustained
by folklore. It is continuously reinforced by a counts of
its appearances preceding significant events in Detroit's history, a pattern
too striking to be dismissed as conclusion. In seventeen sixty three,
before the Battle of Bloody Run, a significant defeat for

(24:39):
the British during Pownyax Rebellion, the nine Rouge was reportedly
seen near the Detroit River, its presence a chilling omen
of the bloodshed to come. Some accounts even claim the
creature revealed in the aftermath dancing among the corpses on
the banks of the Detroit River, which I don't know.
That image of that little demon thing that's on the
screen right now, just dancing through corpses, I mean, that's

(25:00):
pretty horrifying.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
I mean yeah, but it's kind of like par for
the course with all these like European trickster faery type entities,
is it not.

Speaker 4 (25:09):
That's true, because I mean, part of the whole thing
was it was supposed to he was basically supposedly there
was another part to it, but I didn't want to
include it in here because I only found it in one
place and I didn't know if it was just something
somebody added, but supposedly this thing was basically telling the guy,
like the they're saying, give up de Troit, give up
de Truit, You're gonna lose ha haa. So he was
like already being a trickster and messing with him before

(25:29):
this went down, and then afterwards he's dancing through the
bodies like ha or doing that one, doing one of
those all right. So decades later, in eighteen o five,
as a devastating fire in Gulf Detroit, many longtime residents
believed they glimpsed the Nine Rouge's malevolent face amongst the

(25:49):
smoky chaos, a harbinger of the city's near destruction during
the War of eighteen twelve, a moment of national humiliation
for the United States, General William himself claimed to have
witnessed the Nine Rouge grinning through the fog just before,
just before he made the difficult decision to surrender Detroit
to the British forces. So yet again another trickster thing

(26:11):
making his appearance. But this thing, honestly just seems like
catallact disrespect to him, and he's just like, I want
to watch this whole world burn bro I just want
my damn land back. I just want my land back.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
Man.

Speaker 4 (26:22):
The pattern continued into the twentieth century, some accounts suggesting
the Nine Rouge was even seen before the week long
Detroit Riots in nineteen sixty seven, a period of intense
social unrest and devastation. Perhaps one of the most compelling
modern accounts involves two utility workers in nineteen seventy six
who reported seeing a small, particular figure resembling a child

(26:46):
climbing a utility pole just before a brutal ice storm
crippled the city, leaving hundreds of thousands without power. These instances,
documented through oral histories and even some witness accounts, paint
a clear picture of the Nine Rouge, a consistent witness too,
and perhaps even a catalyst for Detroit's trials. And just
to throw some extra ones in here, because like I said,

(27:08):
I did find one right as I was starting to
wrap this up here it is. An article in the
Daily Tribune out of Royal Oak from October first, nineteen
eighty six, mentioned the dwarf may have been seen hitchhiking
a ride on the Detroit People Mover. No horrible incident
was seen afterwards or connected with the ride, and no

(27:30):
full confirmation was ever made on that, so I didn't
know if I should include that one, but I guess
I'll kind of just throw it in here, and then
I guess the only other main event that I have
to also possibly include is that in nineteen ninety seven,
Detroit had some issues with some really really bad blackouts,
and supposedly nobody claimed to have seen him during that,
But my argument is it was a blackout. It was

(27:51):
fucking pitch black in Detroit, Like, has anybody really seen
this thing during that? And even on the flip side
after it's been like years since this thing is really
bad acknowledged. I mean, nineteen eighty six you kind of
had like a little or little glimpse of it. The
seventies there was maybe two workers of Saudianny utility Pole.
So by nineteen ninety seven, I felt like the city
was so far pulled away from folklore that if anybody

(28:13):
did see this thing before the blackout, I really don't
feel like it was reported personally, But that's just my
opinion on it. But intriguingly, a more nuanced understanding of
the Nine Rouge has emerged in recent times, with some
suggesting it might not be inherently malevolent, but rather a
guardian spirit attempting to warn the city of impelling danger.

(28:36):
Perhaps Cadillacs ignorance, ignorant dismissal of the creature said, a
precedent of fear and misunderstanding, obscuring its true intentions. The
Moniker demon of the Strait firmly roots the nine Rouge
to the Detroit River, a vital artery of the region,
suggesting a deeper connection to the land and its history.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
So if you don't mind, I'm gonna jump in here.
The guardian spirit attempting to warn the city of impending
danger sound like, yeah, this is the part that I
thought also kind of sounded like the snarly yoo. You know,
there's some people I think this thing is a harbinger
of doom and a bad omen But you know there's
other people that say it's kind of this benevolent spirit

(29:16):
that you know, guides travelers and turns them around if
there's danger on the path ahead. So I thought that
was kind of interesting. And a little bit later in
that same paragraph, when you were talking about kind of
its links to the Detroit River and the connection to
the land, it kind of made me think about the

(29:37):
whole the Kappas Kappas. I believe that we talked about
the Japanese river imps. I don't know if there's anything there,
but you know, they are kind of mischievous little, you know,
river dwelling creatures. So yeah, it seems like we come
back time and time again to this idea that this
sort of paranormal high strangeness activity is kind of situated

(30:04):
a lot of times around bodies of water.

Speaker 4 (30:07):
And I mean even to throw into like the Mothman,
that one's still up for debate on whether or not
he was actually trying to warn people of things.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
Absolutely.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
And the other thing that I just thought about while
you're explaining that, think about the colors that people describe
of all of these things. You have a combination of
black and red for all three of the ones that
we just mentioned.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
Well, and you know, it's always some sort of glowing
eyes or something like that. You know, the Mothman they
talk about it is like mesmerizing eyes, and this thing
is described as having glowing eyes. And I believe even
the Snarl of Yeah, they talk about having glowing red eyes.
So I mean, there's these recurring motifs and all these

(30:44):
things that you know, all these cultures across the country
and the world just all you know, came up with
on their own. I don't know. That kind of leaves
me to believe there's at least a nuggative truth there.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
And just to throw in another thought on this, like
the demon of the straight idea. Obviously the whole word
demon that starts coming from like European stuff, that's not
something that's within like the folklore or anything. And originally
when they were when Cadillac had this interaction with this
old lady that told him, like, make sure you respect
this thing. It could be a matter of respect because
this thing could be helpful, like they were bringing up,
because if this thing was staying around these waters, the

(31:18):
natives could have used this guy as like a you know,
he's the nature spirit for the area, saying like the
waters are safe to travel, the waters are not safe
to travel, And it could have literally been a matter
of like him basically telling you, like when's the safe
time to be in this area, when's not a safe
time to be in this area, Like he's in full
control of this area, but you piss him off and
he's not gonna make any of these warnings for you,

(31:38):
and it's just everything's gonna end up falling down. It's
not necessarily that he's causing these things, but it's just
a matter of he's not doing his job, so to speak,
of being the guardian, so to speak, of the area
of letting people know what's going on for the area.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Well, and when we talk about a lot of this
Native American type folklore, you know, we have the conversation
of can two things be true at the same time.
And yes, there could be some real world, real thing
that happened nugget of truth that these are based off of,
like when we talk about the wind to Go, But
it could also be, you know, a cautionary tale in

(32:14):
a lot of ways, and I could see this story
falling in that same category. Yeah, it could totally be
there's some sort of trickster, elemental fairy type creature that
was seen in years past and preceded all these you know,
horrible occurrences. But it's also a cautionary tale about you know,
teaching you the value of humility and you know, not

(32:34):
judging a book by its cover and all these like
warm fuzzy feelings, you know.

Speaker 4 (32:38):
Or I mean, even like we talked about a few times,
just stories to keep people away from a particular area
for their own safety, because I mean, you get into
these Straits of Detroit, like this whole area with all
the Detroit River and everything. I mean, everybody already knows
all the horror stories and the ghost stories that come
out of the Great Lakes and the Straits of Detroit
is basically like the Great Lakes narrowing down into this
little tiny point that goes in between the United States

(33:00):
in Canada.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
And then it comes back out.

Speaker 4 (33:02):
So within that there is a lot of like weird undercurrents,
little wines and twists and little bends to the river
and everything. So I mean, going into the whole idea
of whether or not this thing existed or not, it
could have literally been a cautionary tale of stay away
from this river because you never know what could happen,
and the stories could have started because just like a current,
you know, something could pull you under. People start telling
stories of something pulling them under because they don't understand

(33:24):
the dynamics of like how this river current is created
at this time, so they just create folklore around it
to just stay away from that area.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
And something I just thought of while you were talking
right now. Back to the Moon Eyed people, part of
that story is there's this river that separated where the
moon eyed people lived from where the natives lived, and
they thought that this river was occupied by this giant
red leech that would like churn up the waters, and

(33:53):
if you tried to cross the river to where the
Moon eyed people live, basically this thing would attack and
pull you under. So just a lot of similarities to
that story. And I'm kind of thinking about even more
the further we get into.

Speaker 4 (34:06):
This, and I will end up mentioning it just for
a brief second as we get farther in. But there
is also another folklore creature that inhabits an island that
is right off of Detroit, But we will come back
and around to that one. But diving back into this
beyond the historical accounts that have become part of the
city's lore, personal sightings from individuals who claim to have
encountered the Nine Rouge offer compelling evidence for believers. The

(34:30):
reporting encountered by two Detroit edison workers in nineteen seventy
six stands out as a particularly vivid and well known
modern account. Their initial assumption that they were seeing a
child climbing utility pole, followed by a creature's unexpecting leap
and subsequent ice storm resonate with the established pattern of
the Nine Rouge appearance. While specific details of other sightings

(34:51):
may vary, the consistent thread of encountering a small red
figure often precedes misfortune weaves through numerous personal accounts. These
first hand experiences shared with the community serve as a
powerful affirmation for those who believe, and just to throw
this one in there, just like a lot of like
the Bigfoot sightings, all of that stuff, like, at least

(35:12):
particularly with this one. These two utility workers that saw
it weren't saying like, oh, it's the Nine Rouge. They
said it looks like a child. Like even in some
of like the stuff that I dove up with them
talking about it in the paper and stuff, they literally
describe it as they thought it was a child that
was they painted itself read. They were like, why is
this child climbing utility pole? But the dynamic of basically
this thing being at the top of the utility pole,

(35:33):
jumping off and running off into the darkness was like,
all right, maybe that's not a child.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
So kind of two thoughts on that before we move on.
What this reminded me of a little bit is when
we were talking about the Dover Demon, you know, it
was mistaken for like this really weird looking child at
first too, So not that there's really much of a
connection there. I just thought that was kind of interesting.
And also this utility pole idea when we talked about

(35:59):
the Mofman prophecies in our series, This idea of the
Mothman being seen on the bridge, of course everybody's familiar with,
but also there is a lot of like these strange
ultraterrestrial men in black type entities that John Keel talks
about that were routinely seen on power lines during you know,
the whole Mothman fiasco. So I don't know if there's

(36:22):
any connection there, but just something I thought was kind
of interesting.

Speaker 4 (36:25):
Well you saying that, it almost kind of makes me
wonder if all right, let me try to lay this out.
So the whole idea of like an archetype, right, every
area has this archetype of this it's it's a certain
type of entity or certain type of being, right, and
it has this specific job in this area and it's
supposed to be the harbinger of doom, the people that
warns things, warns people of things. But depending on the

(36:45):
thought that people have in the area, it takes shape
of whatever their thought pattern is on it. So with
that being said, maybe like every area has something like this,
and depending on like what the view is of society
on that particular thing kind of defines like what image
that it might appear as, meaning that like the Snarly Yao,
the Mothman, the nine Rouge, like they could all be

(37:09):
the same type of entity, but rather that they're able
to either one change their image or too. They don't
have a definite image because there's some type of like
nature spirit or ground spirit or something that's connected to
the land itself where it maybe doesn't even have an
inherit shape to itself. Maybe it's just like like a
consciousness that's within the area that has a way that
it can manifest its mouthself when it chooses to.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah, I mean that kind of gets back to the
idea of the phenomenon wearing masks and presenting itself, you know,
as we see fit for it to present itself. And
I think it makes a lot of sense that it
would also take on the super localized manifestations, and I
think you know you're talking about since like the seventies,

(37:54):
there haven't been as many sightings of this thing. I
also think it makes a lot of sense that pre Internet,
pre technology, these things would be even more highly localized
in their manifestations and how they present themselves. When everybody has,
you know, a phone in their pocket, it might make
more sense for these things to adopt a more universal mass,

(38:17):
whereas back in you know hell, even prior to twenty
thirty years ago, the phenomenon could manifest itself in these
highly localized regional depictions. Hold that thought, We'll be back
in a flash.

Speaker 4 (38:33):
But if you guys don't like hearing the ads, then
I have a solution for you. You can get ad
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(38:54):
And seven to eight free trials available and now back
to the show. Something else kind of weird to think
about too. So I don't know how much validity there
is to this because I don't know how you would

(39:15):
know this exact spot that this supposed encounter happened with Cadillac.
But part of the folklore supposedly says that this area
of where this supposedly happened at is supposedly the same
area where Crowley built the Masonic temple. So you want
to get into the weird stuff with Crowley, with like Lamb,
for example, these small imfish things that he seems to

(39:37):
go to these quote portal locations and try to try
to stir up or bring back, like even talking about
the Locknus monster, like he supposedly said, he claimed like
there was the sightings of it. They disappeared, he came
into the area, and then all of a sudden the
sightings started coming back again, like he supposedly conjured something
as he claims to do. And I don't know much
validity you put into Crowley or not, but I mean,

(39:57):
it seems like there was kind of a gap in
sightings early nineteen hundreds. Crowley does that and then there's
only another little cluster that happens again of sightings, like
I don't know if there's a connection to it. I
don't know if maybe it's a matter of again these
particular areas they know that there's this like opening or
this ville open, then they can take advantage of which
again could completely make sense with the whole ocult history
of Detroit. But I don't know, just something weird to

(40:19):
throw in that supposedly that was the area where the
Masonic temple is. There might be a lot more like
accult inclination to this than previously expected.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Well, on taking a step further with the whole Crowley
connections or boy Jack Parsons, you know, we talked about
in that series this idea of him creating a homunculus,
which is kind of in its own way, a little
impish dwarf type creature. And I didn't think about this
till just now, but this idea that this thing is

(40:50):
always depicted as being red, well, the color red is
like very significant in the kind of whole Jack Parson's story,
you know, out his Crimson lady or whatever. So you
know it again, is there something there or are we trying
to put pieces together, and they're like, not really be
there yet. It's possible, but I think there's enough little

(41:12):
nuggets there that we can, you know, try to connect
the dots a little bit.

Speaker 4 (41:15):
There's definitely something weird. It's just a matter of throwing
enough shit at the walls we figure out what weird
stuff actually sticks.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Throwing shit at the wall. That's what we do on
this show.

Speaker 4 (41:24):
That's all you really can do when you're diving into
this type of stuff. Realistically, I mean, throw shit at
the wall and see what makes sense. Right, So, diving
into some possible origins of this thing. The origins of
the Nine Rouge legend are a subject of ongoing discussion,
with theories pointing towards both European and Native American roots
as we mentioned, and the possibility of a blend of
the two. One predominant theory suggests a derivash see this.

(41:50):
I was going to do it at some point, man,
All right, Billy, fuck off, man. I don't want your
humor over here. Man, I'm just trying to read and
you're fucking it all up from man, and you know,
just take your basketball shorts, man and just go elsewhere.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
Oh my god, God, his buddy, God.

Speaker 4 (42:06):
Damn, and Sandler's kind of rude.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
Bro He's savage.

Speaker 4 (42:10):
He's savage. Man, go away, Adam Sandler. All right, So
hopping back in after that rude, rude comment from Adam Sandler.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
It's beauty Madison. It's not Adam Chandler. Goddamn beauty Madichine
this in your pants, She's the coolest.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
One.

Speaker 4 (42:28):
Prominent theory suggests a driven See I'm still gonna fuck
up on it. Uh, driven, you just try for me?
You govation derivation there, he goes, suggest a derivation from
Norman French folklore uh, specifically tales of the Luton, a
type of hob goblin known for his its mischievous nature.
This connection to European tradition aligns with the mere French

(42:51):
settlers of Detroit in the eighteenth in the eighteenth century.
And I'm gonna throw this in here because I didn't
throw it into the notes. H. But supposedly the word
nine like in French, is supposedly talking about somebody that's
short or didn't grow too proper height or so there's
like multiple different variations of like what the nine part
could definitely suggest, but short red definitely would make sense

(43:15):
if you break it down in French that you're basically
saying like a short, red little person realistically, but gotcha anyways,
Parallels can also be drawn to broader European folklore featuring small,
often red hued mythical beings, some of whom are associated
with omens or trickery. Conversely, another perspective posits a Native

(43:36):
American origin, with the claims that the Nine Rouge stems
from the legends of the snake Goddess of Belle Isle.
As I told you I was gonna bring up at
some point, or the imfish offspring of the stone God,
or even resembles a Native American earth spirit, perhaps even
the protector of the land. So I'm gonna stop right
here for one second, because I'm sure that you probably
have a comment to make about there being a snake

(43:59):
goddess in Belle with these rep You.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Know me too well, No, you knew I was going
to talk about serpents and snake goddesses and all that.
I mean, how many times do we talk about this
on the show? I believe one of the most recent
times we talked about the idea of some sort of
serpent god or serpent spirit was when we talked about
the Lost Colony, which is kind of funny. You know,

(44:21):
a lot of misfortune and bad stuff happened to those
European settlers when they came over and kind of whooped
their dicks out all over this land that was not theirs.
So I mean that's kind of something interesting too. And
then of course it gets back to ideas of reptilians,
and then you know, what is the serpent and the Bible,

(44:41):
And I mean there's a whole episode we could probably
a whole series we could do on just representations of
serpents and snakes in all sorts of folklore and legend.
But yeah, you knew I was gonna have something to
say about that, so I hope I didn't disappoint.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
No, I was gonna say.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
It's definitely like even a direct direct reference to the
Bible itself talking about basically this you know, people are
they're in the land, They're like, all right, I'm gonna
take what I want, and then the snake ends up
being the thing that ends up like dooming them. So
it's like that story like literally goes back to the Bible.
And I'm sure if you dive new it probably goes
back way further than that, but the whole like wisdom prospective,
I mean it goes back to like Mesopotamia and shit

(45:18):
like that, you know exactly, but uh popping back in.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (45:22):
This interpretation often emphasizes the Nine Rouges role as a
harbinger of misfortune, specifically for white settlers, prominently implying a
connection to the historical tensions between indigenous populations and colonizers.
And at a certain point too, it almost makes you
wonder if, like, if bad shit starts happening, if the
natives are just like, oh, yeah, it was definitely us,
Like they just kind of play into it, you know, like, yeah,

(45:43):
we definitely did that.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
Don't fuck with this next time.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Definitely don't want to take our land. The fucking snake
goddess is gonna get you.

Speaker 4 (45:49):
Yeah, you didn't learn the last time, Maybe you'll learned
this time. Man, you're just sitting back like, yeah, we
cursed it.

Speaker 3 (45:53):
I don't know what to.

Speaker 4 (45:54):
Tell you, bro Yep, definitely cursed that's what happened. Additionally,
there are potential parallels between the Nine Rouge and Algonquin
trickster figures such as non Baso Non Baso I'm gonna
hope that that's exactly how it said Nana Baso Baso Nanabaso,
who is sometimes depicted as a red rabbit. The shared

(46:18):
red color and mischievous nature of both figures hint at
a possible link or influence. Nana Baso, a complex character
in Indigenous folklore, embodies both belevolent and troublesome aspects, offering
a framework for understanding the ambiguous nature attributed to the
Nine Rouge. A historical context of interactions between French settlers

(46:39):
and Native American tribes in the Detroit area is often
crucial to understand the legends.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
Development.

Speaker 4 (46:44):
These interactions, which included both cooperation and conflict, likely contributed
to the integrated nature of the Nine Rouge legend, blending
European folklore traditions with Indigenous beliefs. And like I said,
at a certain point, it's kind of like we had something,
you had something. It just ends up playing telephone and yeah,
we curse the land. Sure, if that's what you want
to believe, Like, just don't fuck with us next time,

(47:05):
and also give us some good, some good prices on
this fur trade that we're doing, you know, give us
some guys of a good fur trade.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
But uh, anyway, so just one thing I wanted to
throw in real quick. It seems like this idea of
a rabbit representing like trickster entities shows up a lot
in Native American folklore. Jenny actually got me this book
for Christmas about tricksters. Somebody that was on Joe Rogan
was talking about it. We can't go back and find

(47:33):
the episode, but anyway, it talks a lot about the
idea that the rabbit is like a trickster figure in
Native American folklore. So when I saw that here, I
was like, oh my god, here it is again. And
the color red as well. You know, there's definitely something
to that.

Speaker 4 (47:53):
I mean, even the whole like rabbit years with two
red horns. I mean I feel like there's they're very close,
you know, like the ears and the horns could definitely
be like if you're seeing this thing in the dark,
like you could be thinking that you're looking at two
people can describe the same thing in two different ways
like that.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
And what's also kind of interesting to think about is
especially like white rabbits have red eyes a lot of
times that's true.

Speaker 4 (48:17):
And also I mean going into the context of the
area too, because if the native or if the Natives
don't necessarily have the idea of like what Europeans imagine
a demon to look like, you know, they just see
this thing that's running around and looks like it has
these two bumps on the top of its heads.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
They go, all right, there's a rabbit.

Speaker 4 (48:33):
These Europeans they see something that has these two things
on the top of its head, but they notice that
it has the scaley look to it or whatever, and
they're like, all right, that kind of fits what we're
talking about. Like literally, it just could be a matter
of the Natives weren't familiar with this whole like demon aspect,
they had different things attributed to it, because it's like
one of the closest things that I'd say to like

(48:55):
with Native American folkl or to like a demon would
be like skinwalker when to go like, they're not described
the same way, and even like the whole horned aspect,
like with a lot of the Native stuff could be
a matter of context. But like a lot of the
Native American legends for stuff, they're not i mean retelling
of them. They call them like the horn serpent, this that,
But like the Native depictions call them like the antlered serpent,

(49:15):
and they describe them as having antlers, not like horns,
like what we think of his horns.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
Well, this idea of well, first off, this idea of
absolute good and absolute evil is you know, in the
scheme of things, very recent. And also this idea of
the modern depiction of demons or the devil is even
more recent. You know, this red thing with horns and
a tail carrying a pitchfork. I mean, that's basically a

(49:41):
brand new construct. So it makes sense that, you know,
even if theoretically they're talking about the same thing, these
Native Americans would not have depicted these human entities in
the same way that we currently think about those things,
because I mean we think about all this sort of

(50:01):
stuff in a very fucking Looney Tunes cartoon ass perspective, you.

Speaker 4 (50:06):
Know, I mean, even the nine Ruge, like some of
like the more modern depictions of this thing, like let
me bring up my good old picture file here, and
for all the listeners that didn't get to see the
uh picture aspect of this, I will probably include it
in the cover art, so you guys will be able
to see it, and you guys will know exactly what
we're talking about. But just to bring it up here.
Sorry I was getting distracted talking for a minute. I

(50:28):
didn't bring up the picture I was trying to bring up,
but like, look at the depictions, dude, like, does it
look like a demon? Because of the Hollywood idea of
a demon, So we started calling it the Demon of Detroit,
and it's kind of taken on this more demon look
like because this is obviously what people are kind of
describing it as now. But you go back to these
old pictures and look how it's described. It's like has
some of like the characteristics as far as like skin

(50:50):
features and stuff, but like the red primarily seems to
have come from like the hair and everything else on it,
and not from like the skin itself. Being described as
like this demons, be like if this is one hundred
percent like they were describing one thing, and then the
European folklore turned it into basically this comical demon aspect
of or people know it as like the devil of Detroit,
the demon of Detroit, and that's they've just kind of

(51:13):
furthered the stereotype of it being brought into this view
rather than it being this like imfish nature spirit, pagan
native view of this thing, you know.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
Yeah, I mean it's much more fay like almost in
the older depictions. And yeah, this picture you have pulled
up on the screen now, I mean it's basically a
cartoonish depiction of a devil like we talked about. You know,
it's got even like down to the goateee and eyebrows.
It's like an Anton Levey ass looking demon here that

(51:45):
we're looking at, you know.

Speaker 4 (51:46):
And I mean, I'll even bring this up too. So
I got some pictures of the parade, which we will
definitely get into. But let's see Chrome tap nine were stares,
all right, So like this shows some of like the
costumes and stuff that people are wearing. Like literally there's
one of like the old fifties Halloween demon masks. Like
here's somebody else dressed up like the nine Rouge, Like

(52:07):
it's pulled a lot away from like the imfish look,
and people are literally like dressing this thing up like
it's like a like a straight up demon at this point,
you know.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Yeah, And I wonder if a lot of that is
just kind of marketing, you know, it's more badass and
metal for it to be this like demonic devil looking
creature than you know, a cute little garden gnome.

Speaker 4 (52:28):
Do you know what else is crazy too, is that
I've been living in the Detroit area my entire life.
For as many people as it looks like there are
in this picture, I have not heard of this once
talked about from any circle that I've ever been in
in the Detroit area. Nor have I ever seen a
sign for this event. I've not seen any hankering of
this event other than on the internet. And there's a

(52:49):
lot of people there like, look at that.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
Yeah, I mean it looks like it's kind of a
big deal from these pictures.

Speaker 4 (52:54):
But I'll tell you what though, I will definitely be
attending this year.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Well, you'll have to report back to us.

Speaker 4 (52:59):
I'll have to report during Man, maybe I'll even go
live during.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
Oh you should just don't let the little devil get you.

Speaker 4 (53:04):
Reporting live from the Marchdale Rouge and God, I have
not seen the inter yet, but we're on the demon Watch.

Speaker 3 (53:10):
We will find this little infant.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Man have to pull out your Alex Jones voice on him.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
There's a little imp he's turning the frogs gay.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
I mean, he might be. We don't have confirmation that
he's not.

Speaker 4 (53:25):
All right.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Guys, we gotta take another break. We'll be right back.
And now we're getting back.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
To the bazaar.

Speaker 4 (53:40):
Anyways, getting into the legend today, the Nine Rouge has
evolved into a significant element of Detroit's cultural identity, recognized
as Detroit's oldest folklore, which I don't necessarily think is
true because you start diving into the native stuff and
it goes back way further than that, like I mentioned.
But AnyWho, it fluctuates as a prominent symbol, embodying various
interpretations ranging from a harbor dry misfortune to a quirky

(54:02):
and unique aspect of local lore. A key manifestation of
this cultural significance is the annual March Day Nine Rouge,
which has become a major event in Destroit. This parade,
with its costume patrons and the symbolic act of chasing
away the effigy of the Nine Rouge, demonstrates a unique
way in which the community engages with its folklore.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
I gotta jump in right there. What does just the
sentence the symbolic act of chasing away an effigy of
the nine Rouge? What does that make you think about?
That we've talked about not so long ago on the show.

Speaker 3 (54:35):
Hmm, maybe some type of ritual.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
It makes me think about when we talked about Behamian
Grove and the effigy of care and you know, casting
your cares out and burning this effigy of the owl
very symbolic. So maybe this March Day nine rouge started
as like you know, you talked about the whole kind
of occult undertones of I wonder if this thing started

(55:02):
as almost like a ritual or a festival or something
like that, and it's kind of evolved into what it
is now. And maybe that's why, like you said, you've
lived there your whole life and have never heard about it.
Maybe you know, this thing is just kind of taken
on a second life here recently when it had much
more mysterious and darker beginnings.

Speaker 4 (55:23):
I mean, even on that aspect, who's to say that
if this thing was some type of ritual type thing,
then it may not have been exactly what people thought
it was, but rather that by doing this ritual, maybe
it made it so that they could have some type
of control over this thing or something like that, rather
than like totally banishing it away from the area. Like

(55:43):
if it's more ritualistic, Like it just seems like I
don't know, maybe the initial one may have kept it away,
but by continuing to do it, does it keep it
away or does it rather actually draw its attention because
you're continuously bringing the thought and idea of this thing
back into the area. Like by turn, it's kind of
like that idea about like demons, for example, the whole

(56:04):
idea with that, and not to relate this particularly to demons,
but like if you forget who they are and you
stop worshiping them, then they just become obscure and forgotten about.
But if you continuously bring them up and you're constantly
mentioning them, then you're bringing this new life or they
never fully go away, you know what I mean, Like
maybe the first time you banish it, but after that
you're basically just keeping this thing around.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
Yeah, And I think it kind of gets back to
some and not to get too controversial here, but with
a lot of these kind of occult rituals and stuff,
you know, sacrifice is a big motif that pops up.
You know, Detroit's fallen on some hard times in recent decades.
I wonder if you know, as this festival ritual whatever

(56:49):
you want to call it, got more commercialized and you know,
further away from its roots. I wonder if that aspect
kind of fell away.

Speaker 4 (56:58):
Or I mean you can start seeing it as disrespectful
wants to he starts becoming commercialized, you know, yeah for real.
But I threw this part in for you because we'll
definitely have to try this who ever make your way
to Troit. But the legend has also inspired local commercial
venues such as Detroit's beer companies Detroit Dwarf, Lagger and
the Nine Rouge red Wine, further embodying the figure in

(57:18):
the city's contemporary culture. Within the community, interpretations of the
Nine Rouge has evolved beyond a purely malevl entity. Some
now view it as a warning figure, alerting the city
to impending danger, while others even consider it a potential
misunderstood guardian or simply a quirky symbol reflecting Detroit's struggles
and resilience. The shift is evident in the emergence of

(57:40):
movements like Stop Nine Shame, which advocates for more positive
understanding of the creature, which may I also add as
a Detroiter I've never heard of this.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
Finally, a movement. I can get.

Speaker 4 (57:53):
Stop nine shame it sounds like something German. It sounds
more German than it does French.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Every time you say nine nine nine nine nine, I
should have got that as a sound effect.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
But I can do it good enough. What the hell
is even that?

Speaker 4 (58:11):
The nine Rouge therefore serves as a dynamic focal point
for community identity and expression, particularly through the March. This
demonstrates how folklore can be actively shaped and reinterpreted by
modern society, moving beyond traditional narratives to reflect evolving society
and cultural values, and providing a space for Detroters to
grapple with the city's past and future, while reflecting the

(58:33):
city's resilience, its complex history, and its enduring spirits. And
that's done, done is all I have for you, guys. Done, done, done,
and done. Literally, that was a good one. I really
enjoyed talking about this. Thank you for putting that episode
together and presenting it. This was originally supposed to be

(58:55):
one of the Detroit Mystery series, but as you can see,
I expanded on it too much to turn it into
its own episode, So there will be another Michigan Mysteries.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
This was supposed to be.

Speaker 4 (59:03):
It but I gave you this this instead because I've
been talking about doing the nine Rouge for since we
started talking about the show, so it's been like three
years probably that I've been talking about doing this episode.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
Those are always the fun ones, the one that you
think is gonna be just like a kind of little
one off thing, and then once you get digging into it,
they're like, no, there's a lot to talk about here.
That's kind of what I did with the saway for
Space Man. I thought, you know, that's just gonna be
something that we're going to talk about real quick on
a live show, and then once I got digging into it,
was like, no, this there's a lot to uncover here,
And I'm so glad we decided to do this as

(59:35):
a whole episode. I mean it, just like we said,
hits on so much that we talk about on the
show all the time. You know, there's a whole trickster
elemental fairy type connections there, you know, just the harbinger
of doom and all that. Yeah, so just a lot
of good stuff here, something that I you know, I
had heard the name, I knew basically nothing about it, though,

(59:58):
so I definitely learned something to and I'm sure a
lot of the listeners did too, because this is another
one of those super regional things that I think, you know,
needs attention to draw them to.

Speaker 4 (01:00:10):
It, see, And that's exactly what my whole thing was
with this is that Detroit. It's like everybody has this
idea Detroit, and Detroit is so industrial now that it's
like hard to think about a time where this type
of stuff existed. So diving into all the like the
folklore that we've dived into, like, it's really refreshing to
see that there might actually be some of this underlying

(01:00:33):
amazing folklore that actually is in Detroit. And as I
kind of threw in with like the Stone Bellisle part,
like I think that there's probably going to be some
future episodes that I could probably dive into.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
But stay tuned, guys. This is our last break.

Speaker 4 (01:00:46):
But if you guys enjoyed the show and think we
deserve it, please leave a review or rating for the
show on iTunes or Spotify or any other podcast you use.
Your continued support is what makes this show possible, and
your opinions go a long way to help the show
grow and improve. So thank you, guys. Now feel free
to skip past these ads so we can get back
to the show. And now we're getting back to the bazaarre.

(01:01:15):
Just to throw this one in here because I want
to give this guy a shot out in the chat.
And I find it really funny that he had to
throw this in here for anybody that knows that we've
been talking about Bloodchuck around the show. One of our
top fans for the show, he had to bring up
the fact that Arren is wearing black and red. So
his comment is it's the big bad Boo Daddy, a
harbinger of doom since he's rocking the red and black
combo today, And the answer is maybe, Well.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
I had to reply, yes, absolutely, a harbinger of doom.
Just bad shit seems to follow me. I'm cursed as
well as the city of Detroit, but I am rocking
my Carolina Hurricanes Jersey tonight. They're playing the Washington Capitals
as we speak, currently down one. But anyway, yeah, so
that's the red and black going on tonight. Hurricanes color

(01:01:58):
is also my university's colors. Pretty much everything I wears
red and black and some capacity.

Speaker 4 (01:02:05):
So if I'm being totally honest, I thought you were
wearing it as a slap in the face, because you
know why.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Was that because the Hurricanes beat your New Jersey Devils
in the previous round of the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
Yes, I literally as soon as I saw the Jersey
and I saw NHL, I thought you were gonna make
some points today to point out the fact that the
Hurricanes took out the New Jersey Devils.

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
I thought that was the whole intention.

Speaker 4 (01:02:27):
I didn't need to see because I was gonna wear
my Devil's hat today on purpose. But I was like,
I'm not gonna wear it just because they got knocked out,
and I don't want him if you wearing a Hurricanes
thinking it's a good thing.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
I didn't. So it's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
The Hurricanes are probably gonna lose in this round anyway.

Speaker 4 (01:02:39):
It's been a good run, yeah, And the Jersey Devils
had a pretty good run too, better more than I
can say for the Blackhawks and for the Detroit Red Wings.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
So it was kind of a rough year for a
Middlewest hockey, wasn't it. Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
Really really rough?

Speaker 4 (01:02:52):
Man Like, normally one of the best, two of the
best teams in the league. Dude, like literally sent and
eighth place for the majority of the season, like that's crazy,
and not to get too much into a cryptid or
hockey talk on a cryptid show, but I mean New
Jersey Devils. I mean that for a little fun fact
for anybody that might not know, just to bring this
back to being somewhat cryptid related. The New Jersey Devils
were founded in nineteen eighty six, if I'm not mistaken,

(01:03:15):
and the whole intention of the team name was to
be named after the New Jersey the Jersey Devil himself
from the Pine Bearns. So the name wasn't supposed to
be the Devils as people think that it is because
the mascot is a giant devil. It was literally supposed
to be named after the New Jersey Devil folklore. So
just an interesting fun fact to bring this all around
full circle.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
Well, a demon horse winged thing just doesn't translate as
well to a cute, furry mascot.

Speaker 4 (01:03:39):
Dude, I would have loved to have seen that as
a mascot. I was thinking that one day, like, why
didn't they just do that mascot? That would have been fantastic.
Nobody would have gotten it, maybe, but like.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Drunk dad's like yelling at their kids, go let her
take your picture. What the fucking damon.

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
Take your picture with the Jersey devil? No, dad, dude.

Speaker 4 (01:03:57):
You know what's said though, is that there's also the
Krakens and their mascot is uh, it's what is it? It's
like a like a water troll or something like that.
So it's like, bro, missed opportunity. Why didn't you make
the costume some fucking clu looking fucking cracking. Instead you're like, oh,
let's pick the Let's pick the water troll.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
And the Seattle SuperSonics, the basketball team that used to
be in Seattle. Their mascot, like their actual like thing
in the suit was a sasquatch. So there's actually a
lot of cryptids in sports. You just gotta look hard
enough for them.

Speaker 3 (01:04:31):
Yeah, it's awesome. I love it. There should be more
to do.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
A whole episode about that at some point, Like cryptids
in sports.

Speaker 4 (01:04:37):
Dude, we could totally do that as like a bizarre
increase thing. We could we could collect all the teams
and just make reference to it and just make jokes
about it. That could totally be a bizarre Increase topic.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Yeah, you'll just have to cut all this out of
the end. Of the show, so people don't know that
we thought about this on the fly.

Speaker 4 (01:04:51):
Oh, I'm gonna leave it in. It might as well,
you know. I mean, we do a lot of editing runners,
you might as well leave this part in. No, I'm
just kidding. Do't doo right edding except for what I'm reading.
Because Billy gets Billy Madison slash. Adam Sandler gets really
fucking rude if I don't try to censor myself at
least a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
Junior, Oh my god, I god, that guy is so rude.

Speaker 4 (01:05:11):
Like I think his laugh is supposed to be sincere,
but the comment comes after and it loses all validity.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
But he's a little condescending.

Speaker 4 (01:05:18):
We might as well get out of here before Adam
Sandler gets too fucking rude and ramped up. But if
anybody enjoyed today's conversation and wants to show some love,
smash that follow icon and share today's episode with a friend,
Grassroot supports from listeners like you, guys, is exactly how
this show grows. So thank you, and as a Detroiter,
you know, you guys know you got to share this
episode with other fellow Detroiters. Try to bring back some

(01:05:38):
of the folklore to Detroit.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
And if anyone would like to get in touch with
us for any reason whatsoever, or to be a show
on or a guest on the show, you could be
a show on the guests that works. Yeah, well, we
don't give a fuck. Yeah for real much anyway, Shane
Tom how they can do that.

Speaker 4 (01:05:55):
You guys can first and foremost email us at Bizarre
Encounters at outlook dot com. Or you guys get ahold
of us through social media Instagram and Facebook are the
ones that we are the most active on. Or you
guys can also get ahold of us through the link
through the submission forum, which is available on the link tree,
which is also available down in that show description. In last,
but not least, you guys can text or call the hotline.
That number is three one three, three six, four one

(01:06:18):
five five to one. And if you guys miss that,
it is again also available down in those show notes.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
And you guys be sure to show some love to
our sponsors and friends of the show. We've got our
buddies Rick and Hans that I know Squatch for all
your Squatchy gear needs. We've got our buddy Dave aka
the Snarly Yoo with Snarly Yoo natural products. He makes
some great beard oils and body washes and things like that.
Also puts on some kick ass events, so y'all be

(01:06:45):
on the lookout for that. We've got our buddy Joe
at Cryptoteology. You ready for it.

Speaker 4 (01:06:50):
For your I'm not even gonna sy I'm gonn let
you say.

Speaker 3 (01:06:52):
It's more fun than you for.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
You awa equipped. There you go, and then we've also
got big ape threads.

Speaker 4 (01:06:59):
And if you guys also have time, don't forget to
go and check out are awesome friends with affiliate links
over there. We got Dimension devices for all of your
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out Organite and Stick and Mule, and you guys have
additional discountant credits which are available for those down in
the show description. And every single thing that we mentioned
is oliviable to the inlink tree which is available down

(01:07:21):
of the show description. And with that, I have been
the one that like two three people may now maybe
call Shane Squatch.

Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
And I have been the big bad Boo Daddy Harbinger
of Doom himself, the Carolina Hurricane Orn Felix.

Speaker 4 (01:07:40):
And guys like I tell you every single episode and
just look Detroit tends to do or maybe we party.

Speaker 3 (01:07:45):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:07:45):
That depends on who you ask. I mean, this guy says,
we know how a party in Detroit. But anyways, always
always stay bizarre.

Speaker 3 (01:07:51):
My friends bizarre, bizarre, bizarre.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
Oh my god, I didn't have a good one to
leave that

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