#125 The Altamaha-ha River Monster

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Any and I looked out and there was this big, red,
blinking UFO. I can just say this, something's going on
in the woods.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Something's going on.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
They're not dogs, they're not coyotes. What could it be?

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Right?

Speaker 4 (00:32):
I had an encounter with a skunk cake and it
completely altered the course of my life.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
I got a call got rock on Building.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
About under staying sightings of a UFO hovering over a barn.

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Really woke up from a dream. And when I went
into the bedroom, she said, there's a monster on the wall.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
They saw that the creature had run through a barbed
wire fence that they were able to obtain cares. They
sent the hairs to their lab and it came back
as an online creature.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
Creature creature.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
Shady Ooo, what is up? Bizarre Rights And welcome back
to the most bizarre show on the Internet. I am
the one that they referred to sometimes as Shane Squatch.
What the hell is even that? What is that fucking thing?
It's kind of like when you mix a sasquatch with

(01:30):
a shame Figure that one out for yourselves, guys. I
don't know what else to tell you. And alongside me,
I have the infamous the big bad boo daddy himself,
sir or Felix.

Speaker 4 (01:39):
Who's your daddy? Yeah, study got.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
To get a little bit sexual with it for you
again there, buddy, I'm glad.

Speaker 4 (01:47):
I've been missing like the sexual innu window bringing it
home there at the end. So I'm glad you're back
on your game.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
You didn't like all the dick stuff. I gotta throw
some dick stuff in with the moaning. Maybe that'll work.
I'll blend the two together, make it a little game,
make it a little straight. We don't know which way
to go.

Speaker 4 (02:01):
Okay, a lot eagerly anticipating that.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
And speaking of stuff that you know we like to
make fun of. We do have this awesome comment on
YouTube before we get into all the news and updates
that I figured that we should laugh about for a minute.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
Not a one star review, but I think it's pretty close.
I think it counts.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
It's just just as close. I mean so for anybody
that may have listened to our Kexberg episode, obviously we
got a little off the rails there, thrown in theories
as far as you know, it possibly being some type
of alien shit or you know, drone like shit, drone,
you know, like excrement from from a UFO, whatever you
want to say. And apparently there was somebody that didn't
find that too funny. So this person has, you know,
no name or anything like that, so I can't shut

(02:39):
them up by name. But they left this awesome comment
on the episode on Spotify that says adsolute garbage. They
spelled absolute wrong. I want to make sure I included
the d adsolute garbage. Don't waste your time listening to
this crap ps. You're not humorous, not one bit. And
even better part was they thumbs down their own comment.

(03:01):
I just feel really sorry for.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
This guy because that was a relatively hinged episode. Like
if he thinks that was bad, we can get way worse.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
But I mean, on the flip side, if you want
some serious stuff, I mean that's that was kind of
a toss up episode. I feel like that's a weird
spot to start off with us in. So I really
hope that wasn't like the first one, because if you
hear that episode, you don't know who we are and
what we're about. Like I'm sure that that is just
like a off the wall fucking episode to listen to.

Speaker 4 (03:27):
Hey, I stand by my statement. There's way more off
the wall shit we've done. That one was relatively hinged.
So to that listener who thumbs down his own comment,
thank you for the engagement with the show. We appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
We love the shit talking because we like to shit
talk you too, and AnyWho getting into the more important
pressing news and updates. For anybody that's caught it on
the last couple episodes, I just want to make sure
I reference it right out of the gate. We're gonna
be trying to put together a Halloween episode, a Halloween
special episode, and there's two ways we can run that.
First and foremost, we could probably have you guys call

(04:02):
in during the episode if you guys would like to
share your experiences, but that's more of the backup plan.
The main intention is if you guys are interested in
possibly being included in the show, If you guys don't
mind calling into the Bizarre Reality Media Hotline and leaving
your paranormal cryptid UFO experience encounter wherever it is, then
we will of course use it as part of our
Halloween special and talk about you and your experience on

(04:24):
the show a bit. That also being said, I will
verify with you just to make sure it's okay before
we use it. I'm not just gonna go rogue and
use it. And also as an extension to that, if
anybody would like to remain anonymous, you can obviously remain
anonymous completely and even to the point where if you
want to, I can change your voice. So if anybody's
hesitating to call in because they want to remain anonymous,
I can totally do that for you guys. And again

(04:45):
I will check with you guys before they get used
on the show. So please call in, please leave your experiences.
Let's put this Halloween special together. And that number is
three one, three through six, four one, five, five to one.
And if you guys happen to miss that, it is
available down in the show notes.

Speaker 4 (04:58):
And the next time pre we do like scary robot
voices like on Unsolved Mysteries and shit like that.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
Oh dude, I got this different thing that I can
change voices with on the computer. There's like a couple
hundred of them that I can choose from. So I
can make him sound like Alex Jones, I can make
them sound like a robot. I can make him sound
like an alien, a ghost. I can do whatever. So
depending on the experience. I mean, I guess the sky's
the limit as far as that one goes. And I'll
even give you, guys the special option to pick what
voice you want me to change you to. So if

(05:24):
you want to be ranting Alex Jones for your paranormal experience,
I can do that for you.

Speaker 4 (05:28):
Guys, I vote for scary robot voice.

Speaker 3 (05:32):
What about scary robot Alex Jones?

Speaker 4 (05:34):
That just might be too much.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
What is that fucking thing? It's scary robot Alex Jones.

Speaker 4 (05:40):
Sideboard Alex.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
And also just another somewhat pressing piece of news and updates.
And this will be the last time I mentioned it,
because I mentioned it a couple episodes ago, but I
want to make sure I mentioned on this one because
our last episode was bizarre increase. For anybody that's been
going back and listening to the old episodes and noticing
that there's a lot of ads on them, I am
in the process of fixing that. What it happened was
when I switched over the RSS host, they moved over

(06:05):
their ads with the current one that I'm using that
also has ads. So basically what you're getting right now
is double ads, except one of the ads set of
ads is embedded into the episode, so I'm gonna have
to slowly go through and replace the audio to all
of these episodes. So for anybody that's been listening for
a while, please bear with me and I appreciate it.
And on the flip side, if there's an episode that's
really pressing that you want to listen to, the Patreon

(06:26):
does have a seven day free trial and all those
are completely ad free, so I mean, take advantage the
seven day free trial. Man, if there's a particular one
you want to listen to ad free, just go and
check that out and see what else is over on
the Patreon. And when the process.

Speaker 4 (06:38):
All right, guys, and our next episode of Bizarre Inquiries,
which is our YouTube live show, is going to be Thursday,
October the second. It's going to be roughly seven to
fifteen Eastern time, and that's going to be on the
Bizarre Reality. I'm still getting used to that, I.

Speaker 3 (06:55):
Would say I'm slowly getting used to it too. YouTube
and Twitch maybe bullets you tube and Twitch which.

Speaker 4 (07:01):
We still don't quite know what Twitch is. But if
anyone is interested in being a guest on the show
or getting up with us for any reason whatsoever, Shane
tell them how they can do that.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
First and foremost, you guys can email us at Bizarre
Encounters at outlook dot com or like I had mentioned
with the call ins, you guys can always call or
text the Bizarre Reality Media Hotline twenty four to seven
whatever you guys want to do, and that number again
is three one three through sixty four one five five
to one.

Speaker 4 (07:26):
And if you guys would like to support the show,
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Speaker 3 (07:33):
You guys can always go and check out the Patreon
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Our Reality.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
You can check out the Bizarre Reality merch Store with
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Speaker 3 (07:55):
No, seriously, the fifteen sixty eight plus shipping, I promise
you and you guys can also leave a review or
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happen to use, and as soon as we find it,
we'll read on the show and give you guys a
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or some shitty comments on Spotify, we'll still read those
ones on the show, but again expect that if you
leave something that's a little bit more drogatory, you might

(08:17):
make funny a little bit, but hey, that's part of
the fun, right.

Speaker 4 (08:20):
And you guys also be sure to like, share and
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Speaker 3 (08:26):
And don't forget to go and catch all of our
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Speaker 4 (08:34):
And as always, all this shit we've mentioned is in
the link tree in the show description.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
And now hopping into today's episode, this is one that
Oran has put together and this is something that I
actually haven't heard of previous to this, so hopefully we'll
have something new and refreshing for you guys. But without
further ado, I'll let Orin get into this one.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:53):
So this is kind of a more obscure topic slash cryptid.
It came up a couple times here in the past
few months, and some books I was reading so I
thought it would be cool to do an episode on it.
And it is the Alta Mahaha River monster, which is
a mouthful.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
So we're gonna try to get through that together. Yeah,
like that guy said, what the heck?

Speaker 4 (09:13):
All right, Shane, unless you got anything else, I'm gonna
go ahead and jump in.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Please teach me about this river monster my front.

Speaker 4 (09:19):
Okay, So the Alta Maha ha which is also known
as Alti, which is what I'm going to refer to
it as from here on app.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Which you're missing the fun part. You got a cackle
in the middle of the hat.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
To you, you can handle the cackling. How about that?

Speaker 3 (09:33):
Oh gladly, I'll get the button back. Remember the cackle button.
I'll bring it back. I have quick access to that
if I need.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
To designated cackler over there anyway. So, Alti is a
river monster that is said to inhabit the Alta Maha River,
which is located in southeastern Georgia.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
And also a tongue foul, mouthful, tongue ful, whatever way
that works. Mouthful, it's a mouthful.

Speaker 4 (09:57):
It's a mouthful, not as quite as much as the
out of Maha Haa, but still a mouthful, but here
about that, I am so. The river has more than
one hundred and thirty miles of coastline and it is
regarded as one of the largest river swamp systems on
the East Coast, and due to its like harsh terrain

(10:18):
and wide variety of plant and animal life, it's sometimes
referred to as the Little Amazon, which I thought was
kind of interesting. Sightings of the Outer Mahaha or Alti
are predominantly reported in and around the small town of Darien, Georgia,
which is located in Macintosh County, and according to eyewitness reports,

(10:40):
the creature is a large snakelike creature, and it's generally
described as being dark in color and either having like
small horizontal fins or no fins at all in some cases,
and it has a head that resembles a snake or
an alligator, and I thought it was kind of interesting.
The Creek Native American tribe, which is indigenous to the area,

(11:03):
they have legends of a quote giant snake which hissed
and bellowed when frightened that inhabited like the local creeks
and rivers of this area. So you know, obviously we
talk about Native American legends a lot on the show,
but I thought it was kind of interesting right off
the rip that you know, going back hundreds of years,
there's sightings and reports of these kind of creatures in

(11:25):
this area.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
And I mean there's a constant thing within Native American
mythos about this whole thing with giant snakes, like just
in particular talking about Cherokee, because I hadn't got a
little bit of background with that stuff. There's the whole
idea of the Uktenna, which I think we mentioned maybe
a couple times in the show, but we have not
an actual episode on it. But essentially it's this like
giant antlered snake and it supposedly has this scale in

(11:46):
the middle of its forehead that will give you some
type of power, whether it's immortality or something like that's
carfil legend zone. Yeah, it's essentially like an infinity stone.
But supposedly like this was the main competitor to the thunderbird,
so like these things were known to fight in Cherokee
Lord the Thunderbird in the utenna. But important trying to
make continuing on with Native American folklore, it seems that
these giant snakes seem to be a reoccurring factor in

(12:08):
Native American folklore, which to me at least, I feel
like it's one of those things, aside from the river
monster aspect, of course, because those I feel like I
just have a lot of plausibility to them because it's
really hard to know what's really going on in the water.
But the whole idea of giant snakes isn't that ridiculous.
I mean, it seems like it could have been something
that maybe could be a remnant of something that was
left over from the past. But giant snakes, to me,

(12:30):
they are just one of the ones that are just
if I'd put money on something being real, like giant snakes,
don't seem that far off. And also just considering the
fact that you know, these things would need relatively bigger
food sources, so I would expect that you wouldn't see
a bunch of these things in one area.

Speaker 4 (12:43):
Yeah, I mean, it's like giant squids or anything like that.
I mean, just a real, big fucking version of an
animal that we know exists just doesn't seem that implausible
to me.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
And as a plus side to it too, I mean,
if you have stuff like the Utenne legend where you know,
if you remove this scale from its forehead, you're gonna
get powers.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
You know.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
What ends up happening is that if there's these giant snakes,
you know, people eventually end up unting them down thinking
that they're gonna get some power out of it. But
even on the flip side of it, of course, like
these things would assumably be dangerous. So if you had
a giant snake around like it doesn't seem implausible that
they would probably hunt him into extinction and these legends
and stories would still carry.

Speaker 4 (13:17):
On, yeah for sure. All right, So jumping back in,
we're going to talk about one of the earliest published
accounts of Altie and this occurred in April of eighteen thirty,
so that's a pretty good ways away at this point.
But at this time the Savannah, Georgian newspaper reported that
a man that they named Captain Delano, who was the

(13:41):
captain of a schooner ship named the Eagle. But anyway,
this captain claimed that he saw a large snakelike creature
swimming off the coast of Saint Simon's Island, Georgia. Is
kind of what the fuck is that?

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Prol That was his exact response. We had the recording
from eighteen thirty.

Speaker 4 (13:59):
And so the Saint Simon's Island is kind of near
the mouth of the river and kind of interesting. It's
only about twenty minutes away from Jekyl Island, Georgia, which
we talked about in our Bohemian Grove and Jekyl Island episode.
So for some other backgrounds to this area, you can
go check out that episode. But anyway, according to this
article quote, he meaning Captain Delano, repeated the particulars precisely,

(14:25):
describing the animal he saw as being about seventy feet long.
And it's a circumference, excuse me about that of a
sugar hogshead moving with its head shaped like an alligator's
about eight feet out of the water. And I had
to look up what a hogshead was. It's a large
wooden cask or barrel used to transport liquid or dry goods.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
I'm glad that you said that, because I would have
assumed that it was like a literal hogshead. I assumed
that too, which is probably about the same size in
all fairness as like a barrel like with one es.

Speaker 4 (14:57):
Yeah, so it's a barrel. It was seventy feet long,
bigg around as a barrel.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
Just to throw this into at this point, I don't
know if you're gonna into it a little bit farther.
But the whole aspect of this possibly being mixed with
like the nessy thing like it kind of makes you
it seems like it there's a lot of really really
close things with it. So yeah, I guess I'll just
let you get into that one later. But yeah, I've
already seen correlations with it. Almost seems like a mix
between like sinkhole sam and like some of the NeSSI stuff.

Speaker 4 (15:22):
Yeah, I think you'll have some more to add when
we get into like thoughts and theories. So allegedly, this
Captain Delano's sighting was corroborated by at least five additional eyewitnesses,
and after this report appeared in the newspaper, several other
residents of the Saint Simon's Island also reported weird sightings

(15:42):
of their own, and according to some of these sightings,
the creature was dark in color, approximately forty to fifty
feet in length. And this is kind of interesting. I
thought had the ability to spew water into the air,
so kind of like a dolphin or a whale, and
in some of these were. They also saw a smaller
creature alongside the main creature, so presumably like it's offspring.

(16:07):
And at the time there was a former sea captain
and a resident of Saint Simon's Island, and he suggested
that the creature could have been a grampus whale, which
I'm not really familiar with what that is, but Captain
Delano kind of remained adamant that the creature he saw
was unlike any whale he had ever seen. And you know,
he was a schooner captain, so you would think you

(16:29):
would know a whale from a big giant snake thing.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
Just for the sake of it, I'm going to bring
it up on screen if you want to see what
a grampus whale looks like. I didn't know what these
were called, but I've definitely seen those before.

Speaker 4 (16:41):
Oh okay, so they've just got like a big hump
on there.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
It's like the generic looking gray whale that everybody sees,
but you don't realize what the name is for anybody
that's not seeing the visuals of it. But that was
honestly gonna be one of my As soon as you
said the blowhole, I was like, hm, I wonder what
whales might be possibly close and possibly might be able
to work in this region, because if it has some
time of a blowhole, that means that it might have
it might be a mammal, which is kind of gets
into a weird aspect of thought with this thing.

Speaker 4 (17:07):
Can you say blowhole one more time?

Speaker 3 (17:09):
Blow hole?

Speaker 4 (17:11):
I hope that guy is listening to this episode. He's
really going to enjoy the blowhole talk.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah, he's just going, what the heck, Oh my god,
oh wrong, one, What the hell is even that?

Speaker 4 (17:19):
There?

Speaker 2 (17:20):
It is?

Speaker 4 (17:20):
What damn hell is even that?

Speaker 3 (17:22):
That's that guy. He just pissed off and angry at us. Chill, Daddy, Chill.

Speaker 4 (17:26):
All right, guys, we got to take another break. We'll
be right back, and now we're getting back to the bazaarre.
All right, So for our next encounter, we are going
to fast forward to July of nineteen sixty nine, and

(17:48):
there's this man named Donnie Manning and he was night
fishing on the Altamaha River when he saw a large
snake like creature and it latched onto his fishing line,
and the creature kind of reared out of the water
and jerked on the fishing line and snapped it, and
according to Manning, the creature was grayish in color, approximately

(18:09):
ten to twelve feet in length, so smaller than the
previous encounter we talked about, and it had a head
that resembled an alligators and Manning said that it also
had a quote, horizontal tail instead of a fish like
vertical one, and had a spiny, kind of bony triangular
ridge along the top of its body and a dorsal

(18:31):
fin that was down on its back. The teeth were
shining in the light, and they were sharp pointed teeth.
It was gunmetal gray on top and oyster white yellow
on bottom. It didn't move side to side like a snake,
but up and down in a vertical motion like a porpoise.
So that kind of gets back to your thoughts about
it maybe being more mammal.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
Like, Like I said, I'm kind of starting to inch
towards weal even if it's possibly like a I don't
want to say an undiscovered species, but maybe like a
species that was towards the end around this time, which
is maybe why we probably haven't had more recent sightings
of this thing.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
But I don't know.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
That's my best guess so far as maybe some form
of a whale or unidentified misidentified whale, because I mean,
for how long did people think that what are thot?
Thing is called?

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Uh? Fuck?

Speaker 3 (19:17):
The things that people thought were mermaids? Go me in
what's the word?

Speaker 4 (19:22):
I don't know you're talking about, like porpoises or whatever?

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Is that?

Speaker 3 (19:25):
No, it's not porpoises. Is sea lions? They thought we're mermaids?

Speaker 1 (19:30):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (19:31):
Is riveting television?

Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yes? Sorry, everybody, this will clean out in the post
manatees there it is, okay, yep, just like the the
mermaid thing. I mean, I feel like it's one of
those things that when something in the water, it's kind
of hard to fully identify. And I mean, for how
long did people think that mermaids and manatees were the
same thing. I mean, I'm not taking away the validity
that there might not be some aquatic people, but most
of the issues in the past that people think and

(19:53):
they were seeing mermaids were definitely manates. So maybe the
same thing with this.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
Well, we'll see if you change your mind as we
get into some more of these stories. So it seems
like sightings of alty kind of peaked in the early
eighties and in December of nineteen eighty, there were two
men named Larry Gwenn and Steve Wilson and they were
fishing on Smith Lake, which is a tributary of the
Altamaha River, and they claimed to see a large snakelike

(20:21):
creature as well, and they said that it was swimming
just below the surface of the lake. And according to Gwenn,
the creature was brown in color, approximately twenty to thirty
feet long, and quote as big around as a man's body.
Gwinn also claimed that the creature had flippers like a seal,
two brownish humps about five feet apart, and that it

(20:43):
left behind a wake like that of a speedbook. So
Gwinn and Wilson like watched this creature for several minutes
before it disappeared into the lake. And gwen was a
former newspaper publisher, so he went to the local newspaper
and reported his sighting, and the story was at that
point quickly picked up by the national media, and it

(21:04):
led to several other eyewitnesses reporting sightings of their own,
and one of those sightings was by two men named
Barry Prescott and Andy Green, And according to Prescott and Green,
about six months prior to the Gwynn Wilson siding. They
were driving along Highway ninety five near Gary and Georgia

(21:25):
when they saw this large, strange creature lying banks of
Cathead Creek, which is another tributary of the Alta Maha.
And they pulled the car to the side of the
road to get a better look at this thing. And
it was low tide, and this thing was kind of
like writhing about, like apparently stuck on the banks of
the creek. And they said that again the creature was

(21:48):
dark in color with quote rough or wardy skin, approximately
thirty feet long and three to four feet in circumference.
And so after several minutes, this thing was able to
like free it stuff from the bank and make it
back into the water. And they said, quote its movement
was powerful and undulating, which is a great word rather

(22:09):
than back and forth swimming movement of marine life. So
do you have anything to add before I jump into
our next account.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
Well, I started kind of looking up to see if
there's any documented like freshwater whales, and apparently there aren't
any documented freshwater whales, but that being said, they do
sometimes make it into fresh waterways. But there are such
thing as river dolphins, and I mean there are something
that at least exists in like the Amazon. I don't
know if there's any that would be up this far
in this area, but I don't know. I guess the

(22:39):
closest thing I can relate it to so far would
maybe be one of these river dolphins. But this thing
seems like it's significantly bigger than what a river dolphin
would because I'm assuming at max what a river dolphin
probably reaches maybe like ten feet, just an assumption.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
Yeah, And people were saying that this thing was, you know,
anywhere from seventy feet and below, So I mean that's
a pretty big creature. I mean that's like seven basketball
hoops tall.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
You know.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
Yeah, they're saying that these things only reach about five
to nine feet, so there's a certain point of exaggeration
you can kind of hit. But I don't think that
anybody's taken five to nine feet to that. That's that's
a bit excessive.

Speaker 4 (23:17):
So well, And the other thing about these kind of
fishermen accounts, I think is when you're seeing this thing
in the water and you're like in your boat, you
know how big your boat is. If you've got like
a you know, sixteen foot skiff or whatever, you can
easily gauge if this thing is bigger or smaller than that.

(23:38):
So yeah, yeah, we talk about like size depictions being
like really out of whack and a lot of these stories,
but I almost put a little bit more stock in
these like fishermen stories because they have like a very
accurate gauge that they're sitting in of how big this
thing is.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
And I mean, just to even extend on that, we're
always talking about this idea with like hunters when they're
in the woods and they have like a sasquatch experience
that they're familiar with what's there. So same with these
these people that are doing this stuff, the captains. It's
not like, you know, just some generic people coming up
and just fishing for the day and having fun. Like
these are people that are spending time in these waterways
and they're familiar with what's in these waterways, so they're
seeing something different. You know, they're gonna point it out

(24:14):
and they're not because assumably if you're a captain, you know,
just like anybody, you're gonna try to rationalize it as
much as you can as quick as possible. So if
it was anything that's within rational reason. You know, they're
gonna say, oh it's this, Oh it's that, Oh it's this,
just like a hunter wood with any animal or sound
they hear in the woods. So when you have these captains,
these fishermen that are like hardcore spending all this time
on the water, like I said, just the same kind

(24:35):
of comparison, Like they know that there's they're seeing something
that's not supposed to be there or that they're not
familiar with in the area.

Speaker 4 (24:41):
Yeah, all right. So our next encounter was by a
man named Harvey Blackman, and he was fishing from a
dock at the Two Way Fish Camp, which is located
on the river, and he saw a quote, grayish brown,
monstrous something about fifteen to twenty feet long and as

(25:02):
big around as a man.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
I like that the sizes stay exactly the same for
the whisk.

Speaker 4 (25:06):
I've put the linger on in my conclusions, like the
description of this thing is exactly the same. Yeah, you've
got like a little bit of variance with like the size,
but again that could be you know, different uh parents
and siblings, or it could be down to you know,
just like mistaken size comparisons. While you're in the water.
But yeah, the description of this thing is remarkably consistent.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yeah, that was exactly what I was going to say.
You already made the reference to the fact that it
looked like it had like a juvenile in one of
the first encounters next to it, So clearly there might
be a breeding population of these things. And also just
you know, depending on the clarity of the water, things
getting misconscrewed, because everybody knows that, you know, you put
a pencil in water and it'll turn and shift the
other directions. So kind of hard to fully tell. But again,
you're going back to these fishermen. You know, they're aware

(25:50):
of this. They know how to gauge these things because
this is what they do for a living. So like,
I feel like these judgments, at least from the fishermen
fishermen for lengths, are probably pretty semi accurate, you know,
probably within a couple of feet.

Speaker 4 (26:02):
Yeah, more so than a lot of stuff we talk
about on the show, I think. But anyway, so as
these men's boat approached the creature, it slithered into the
water and swam underneath the boat, and according to one
of the witnesses, the creature had two or three humps
on its body, but no fins or other appendages.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
So it's a water camera.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
Yeah, that's kind of one of the things that changes
in the accounts is whether it had these little fins
or not. But like we said, other than that, they're
all pretty much exactly the same story.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
I mean, even like the humps and stuff like that too.
I mean that's just like I feel like a really
like weird detail to always point out this like two humps.

Speaker 4 (26:46):
Thing, like yeah, it's not again kind of gets back
to nessy type ideas.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
Yeah, and then even goes into the aspect of like
maybe we're not necessarily dealing with like an animal that
maybe might be deformed, because of course you have these
one off things. You always have to take any consideration
that defects happened in the animal kingdom, just as they
do in the human kingdom. But if you're seeing all
these different varieties of sizes but they still carry all
these similar characteristics, then you kind of have to knock
out the possibility that it might just be a deformed animal.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
But I will say, just to throw this in, this
was eighteen thirty. I don't know what the industry and
all that kind of stuff was like as far as
the water goes, but obviously around this time factories.

Speaker 4 (27:22):
It's nineteen eighties at this point. Our first one was
from the eighteen thirties. But we're like in pretty much
present day now.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
But oh, I guess still kind of going into that.
With a lot of these factories and stuff, you never
know what they might be pumping into the water. So
I mean talking about the deformities thing. You know, it
could be that, you know, deformity started because of what
was getting dumped in the water, like even going back
to the eighteen thirties. I don't know exactly when the
industry may have started in that area, or if it
even started in that area, but you know, it could
have started with somebody dumping this into the water and

(27:50):
then it started causing this deformation, and then they just
started bringing in this deformation into whatever these things are,
whatever they are, whatever they are.

Speaker 4 (28:00):
Oh my god, what the fuck is that?

Speaker 3 (28:02):
Browl what he said? We apologize, guys for the interference,
but we will be right back and now back to
the show.

Speaker 4 (28:20):
All right, So, this I thought was kind of an
interesting story. The owner of the Two Way Fish Camp,
which we talked about In the previous encounter, he was
a man named Frank Culpeper, and he had a strange
sighting of his own.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
I wish I could go back to the eighteen hundreds
and have one of these names. Do this Frank Culpeper, Yeah, Culpepper,
that's just that's just a hard working American name.

Speaker 4 (28:43):
It sounds like, you know, like you could own a
fish camp and be named Frank Culpepper. In that fishtamp
goes two ways, it goes both ways. So what happens
at fish camp stays at fish camp. Maybe, so fish
camp after dark maybe Anyway, Frank colepep Pepper was fishing
upriver of the fish camp and he saw a large

(29:05):
brownish creature that swam into his boat with quote significant force,
and according to Culpeper, quote it scared me so badly
I cranked the boat and went back to the camp.
It looked like a big snake. And Culpeper also claimed
that one day, while he was working in one of
the buildings at the fish camp, this man rushed in

(29:26):
and claimed that him and two of his buddies had
just seen a big snake looking creature while they were
fishing from one of the docks and Culpeper went to
retrieve his gun, but by the time he made it
out to the dock, the creature had disappeared, because of
course it had.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
I think we're also just to throw this in. We're
past the point of this possibly being a log, because
I'm sure there's a lot of people thinking out there that, oh,
it may have been a log, But I think I
think we're past that point.

Speaker 4 (29:51):
Well, yeah, I mean everybody kind of reports this thing
like swimming and undulating and rearing out of the water. Yeah,
it's definitely an actual creature. What they're seeing, like what
that creature is is up to interpretation, but yeah, it's
not a log.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
And just to throw this into because you mentioned, you know,
there's the lakes and all the rivers and everything, like
do you know like how big these things are? Like
is it like a pretty damn deep lake? Like are
these pretty wide rivers? Like do you do you know
like the size of this area? Like how much room
does this thing have to hide in the water. I
guess that is kind of what I'm trying to get at.

Speaker 4 (30:23):
Well, I talked about it a little later, but the
river like actually does connect to the ocean, so like theoretically,
something that's in the ocean could get up into this
river system. I think it's a relatively shallow river, Like
I said, it's like one hundred and thirty miles of coastline,
and interestingly, like all of this river is located within

(30:47):
the confines of the state of Georgia. So I don't
think it's like this huge, you know, deep river. But
I don't have like an actual depth number that I
came across in any of my research.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
Well, I mean it opens up doors of possibility the
second you said that it connects to the ocean, because
I mean at that point, it's like it could literally
be anything from the ocean, like if it has that
connecting factor in it's not just specifically stuck in this
area exactly.

Speaker 4 (31:12):
No, I was gonna say that for thoughts and theories,
but we'll go ahead and throw it in now.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
Well, I guess not necessarily a thought and theory, but
at least for your research, because I'm not looking at
these numbers directly on a piece of paper. Does it
seem like there's like a correlation as far as like
it comes, or people see it at every certain amount
of time, or people see it around like a certain
type of season or something like that, because possibly the
reason why it's in this area could be for breeding
at specific times. Just to kind of throw that theory in,

(31:38):
and this may be something that exists in the ocean,
but maybe it has to come to fresh water to
breed because there are a lot of different aquatic species
that are like that. I mean, there's a lot of
different shrimp species that you know, they can they're fresh water,
but they can only breed in saltwater or vice versa.
So maybe this might be something that's kind of like that.

Speaker 4 (31:53):
Well, you know, we talked about the Native American legends
of creatures like this, and we talked about Captain Delano's
report from back in the eighteen hundreds. But like I said,
it kind of seems like the sightings really spiked in
like the early nineteen eighties. Uh So we're gonna get
into a few more here, but like the decade of
the eighties really seems like when a lot of this

(32:15):
activity was going on. So that kind of brings up
some interesting thoughts as well, Like, Okay, so these things
were seeing hundreds of years ago, but you had this
massive spike of sightings in the eighties, you know what's
going on there, Like these things, you know where they
just dormant for two hundred years and then pop back up.
So I think it's kind of interesting to think about,

(32:35):
like where were these things in that gap.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
You know, I mean even on the flip side of that, though,
some of these deep water aquatic animals, I mean, they
have pretty long lifespan, so I mean that being said,
of course, I mean the reproducing cycle might only be
every like one hundred years or whatever.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
You know.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
You see that with some tortoises that I mean Glapico's
court tortoises. I mean, those things aren't regularly breeding every
single year. It's like every fucking fifty hundred years they
start trying to reproduce. So it might be again the
same with these things. Because if we don't even know
what we're dealing with in the first place, Like who
knows what the life extension could be of this thing?
Like I'm pretty sure whales they got a pretty good
life cycle. It's probably about I think the length of
a human. So I mean, add on something else that

(33:12):
we're not familiar with. I mean, who possibly knows how
long these things could live for?

Speaker 4 (33:16):
Especially if this is, you know, truly some sort of
like prehistoric relic creature that you know, somehow survived this
whole time.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
Yeah, I guess the average lifespan for most whales is
eighty to ninety years. So again, I mean unidentified species.
Could that lifespan be every hundred, every two hundred, I
won't even go two hundred, maye hundred hundred and fifty.
And maybe it only reproduces once in its life cycle.
And what you're seeing in these gaps might just be
things that have to come to freshwater to reproduce. Like
that's that's kind of aroun I'm leading so far, like.

Speaker 4 (33:45):
The salmon traveling to reproduce or whatever.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
Yeah, I mean there's there's a lot of aquadic animals
that do that. I mean eels, they only reproduce supposedly
in the Bermuda triangle, and nobody's actually ever seen like
the reproduction site reproductive cycle of an eel. Like, there
are a lot of animals they go to specific areas
at specific times that are aquatic animals to reproduce, So
it's not it's not an unheard of an unseen thing.

Speaker 4 (34:06):
Now, I think that's definitely a good thought and I'm
kind of curious to see where you land when we
get through all these sightings. But jumping back in, we're
going to talk about a siding from January of nineteen
eighty three. And this sighting was by a used car
salesman named Tim Sanders.

Speaker 3 (34:25):
That's a used car salesman name right there.

Speaker 4 (34:27):
Yeah, I mean, so you know he's legit, but you
can trust what he says.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
Pleasure to meet you buy this piece of shit. I'm
Tim Sanders.

Speaker 4 (34:34):
So anyway, Tim Sanders was driving across the chap Knee Bridge,
which crosses over the Alta Maha, when he spotted what
he thought to be a porpoise playing near the riverbank
about one hundred yards away. And when Sanders pulled his
car over to the side of the road to get
a better look at this thing, he realized that it
was quote twenty to twenty five feet in length and

(34:57):
about the size of the torso of a man. So
there you go, same description again. Its skin was dark
in color, and it set had several humps about six
to seven feet apart along its back, and Sanders also
noted that he thought it had like a snout at
the tip of its head, so here we go again,
very similar report and description to our previous ones.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
And just to throw this in because we did talk
about the whole river dolphins and their full size. If
anybody is curious of the full size of a porpoise,
they reach about five to seven point five feet, So
again not something that you could compare and say, oh,
it was this big. I mean it, yeah, I gotta
throw this in here, I guess because I know that
somebody out there is probably screaming this fisherman tails. I mean,
this turns into this pretty damn quick when it comes

(35:40):
to fishermen, So I mean they may be good at
referencing sizes, but on the other side, once they retell
the stories a few times, you know, something this big
can easily turn into something this big. So I'm not
saying this is the case with this, but you do
have to take that into consideration too.

Speaker 4 (35:54):
Yeah, I mean, just like we talk about with any
of these type of stories, I mean, size description should
always be taken with a grain of salt. I mean,
we know human beings are notoriously poor at gauging the
height or the size of anything basically, but the.

Speaker 3 (36:10):
Double hump is still in the barrel size though, that
says constant, which is absolutely fascinating exactly.

Speaker 4 (36:16):
So, in the summer of nineteen eighty five, there's a
man named Isaac Bacon, and he was fishing with his
brother and sister on Dense Creek, which is another tributary
of the al Toa Maha, And as they were fishing,
they noticed a large snakelike creature lying partially submerged on
the banks of the creek. And according to Bacon, the

(36:37):
creature quote blue water out of its nostrils, which made bubbles.
Then it entered the water and went upcreek aways and
started scraping slash eating fiddler crabs off the pier there.
And I thought this was kind of interesting that he
specifically said it blew water out of its nostrils. And
I'm wondering if in some of these other encounters where

(36:59):
people reported that it had like a blowhole like a
whale or a dolphin, it was really just blowing water
out of its nostrils. And you know, that's just the
logical leap that you make is, oh, this thing had
a blowhole like a dolphin.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
Yeah, I could definitely see that one too. I mean,
it depends, I guess on the exact account where they
claim that it's coming from, because I mean, if it's
coming from like a fisherman, again, it's like, I'm sure
they know what a blowhole is. But on the flip side,
if it was just one of the people fishing that
made the reference, i mean, obviously you correlate the two
together and that's gonna be your first assumption.

Speaker 4 (37:27):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So anyway, Bacon also stated that
the creature was dark in color, approximately twelve to fourteen
feet in length, and as big around as a man's body.
So there we go again. But he also said the
creature did not have any gills, fins, or appendages. But
he did say that the head resembled that of an alligator.

(37:47):
So again, very very similar story to everything else we've
talked about. And I'm just gonna knock out another quick
sighting before we get into some more modern day encounters
with this thing. So in May of nineteen eighty eight,
there was a crab fisherman named Ralph DeWitt and he
was checking on his crab pots in the Duboi Sound

(38:09):
when he saw a creature that he described as blackish
brown in color, approximately twenty feet in length, and possessing
an eel shaped head. So we've had kind of snake
shaped heads, we've had alligator shaped heads. Now we have
somebody describing it as an eel shaped head. And according
to this mister DeWitt, the creature quote arched up out

(38:30):
of the water and then dove back in, following its
head like a serpent. And he commented, quote, I've seen manatees, sturgeon, tarpin, turtles, porpoise,
and logs, but I've never seen anything like this.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
I'm gonna throw this in here because if not, I'm
gonna forget to throw it in. So a while ago
on inquiries, I had somebody on that was talking about
this whole concept of giant snake specifically being seen in
the Amazon, and he was talking about how they seem
to use the river system to be able to move around,
and he kind of got into some of the Native
American sightings of giant snakes. So just to throw this

(39:05):
in as a possibility, you know, maybe this again we're
talking about it not necessarily being native to this area,
but you're talking about the little Amazon, the little rainforest
type thing. You know, is it possible that this could
have been something that was from the actual Amazon, and
it took river systems and all that kind of stuff
and eventually made its way up here and then got
landlocked or not landlocked, but it basically got itself stuck

(39:26):
up in this region. Because I mean there's already some
possible evidence to possibly back that up.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
Well, and that would kind of make sense on you know,
the long period of time between the initial siding and
then this big wave if this thing is, you know,
going across the fucking continent to get back to the Amazon.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
I mean, he was even throwing in like migration pattern
ideas that were basically he was saying that like they
could follow these like water systems it basically do like
a loop like up and around, and he had even
had like a map or you're saying like how all
these water systems can basically connect into the Amazon and
come all the way up. So I mean, you know,
some of these animals, I mean, their life cycle could
literally just be to constantly stay moving. So you know,
if you're something that stays in fresh one and you

(40:10):
kind of got to constantly be moving, I mean, it
definitely would make sense that maybe it would take that
long and eventually kind of loop around this area.

Speaker 4 (40:17):
Well, and you know, we've talked about a lot of
things on the show at this point, especially when we
did our Living Dinosaurs episode. You know, a jungle or
a swamp or something like that is a perfect environment
for these kind of relic creatures to be living and
like basically live undetected for many many years. So again,

(40:38):
like you said, the idea of just river Lake monsters
in general, I think is one of the more believable
quote unquote cryptids. And this one, which is basically just
described as a big fucking snake, I mean, seems pretty
believable to me that this could be something that actually exists.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
And just to throw this in, because we've also been
talking about this whole concept of an aquatic animal living
two hundred years, what a perfect example. This thing is
called the Greenland shark and its average lifespan is about
two hundred years. And I'm not saying that this is
what we're talking about here in particular, but this is
something that could be reasonably close to what we're talking
about that has a two hundred year lifespan, And.

Speaker 4 (41:13):
I mean you could kind of see this as having
roughly snake like features.

Speaker 3 (41:18):
Especially this I mean like, look at that thing. Yeah,
I mean, that looks like it's pretty good size, at
least next to the person.

Speaker 4 (41:23):
But it's way bigger than that person in that picture.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
So yeah, my assumption is just guessing from this picture
probably what maybe around like ten feet or so. Let's
look up just for the sake of it, so we
have the exact.

Speaker 4 (41:35):
Sarkets bigger around than a man though, oh here we go.

Speaker 3 (41:38):
Eight to twenty one feet typically is what they grow.
Maybe we may have figured this out, man.

Speaker 4 (41:44):
Yeah, so that's kind of right there in line with
a lot of the size descriptions of this thing.

Speaker 3 (41:48):
Ooh, maybe we're onto something here, Dude, you've cracked the code.
Maybe sit tight, guys, we gotta pay some bills and
now back to the show, all right, you're good, yep.

(42:11):
And also, just to throw this in, because I did
a little bit more research on this thing, it says no,
greenland sharks do not typically live in freshwater. They are
exclusively marine, inhabiting the extremely cold deep waters of the
Arctic and North Atlantic oceans. They have adapted to salt
water in the high pressure of deep ocean water rather
than freshwater environments. But that being said, obviously somebody would

(42:32):
have connected these two. I feel like at some point
if this was something to it, so could it also
be possible that we might be talking about as subspecies
of this. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (42:41):
No, I think that's a really cool thought. I mean
something that we kind of came to organically or you
did anyway. That was not something that I came across
in my research. But hey, I think it's just as
valid as any other theory at this point.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
Hey man, I just coming from somebody who's really into
aquatic stuff. I mean, they say that clownfish specifically you
have to live in saltwater, and they do if you
put them in the wrong types of water, like you're
gonna kill these things. But that being said, there have
been a few cases of people seeing clown fish and
freshwater and they have actually been surviving. So I mean,
talk about something weird. You know, life finding a way.

(43:15):
You know, it may not always work, but there might
be some special ones that somehow make it work. And
once one makes it work, then they kind of open
the floodgates to reproduce in the area and possibly create
another subspecies that's able to exist in freshwater. So just
to throw that one in.

Speaker 4 (43:28):
There, freshwater, you're gonna water.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
Species are weird. They adapt a lot easier, it seems,
than stuff on land, and they adapt a lot quicker
to things and stuff on land. But they can also
die a lot faster than stuff on land if they
are put in the wrong conditions.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
Well, and since you're kind of the expert on this,
you'll have to correct me. But isn't there something like
the the attacks that the movie and the book Jaws
were based off of, was like a shark that like
made its way into a river in New Jersey or
something like that. Yeah, I mean, how far fetched is
it that you know, something like this made its way
into this river in Georgia.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Yeah, And I mean didn't seem like it was aggravate
or anything like that. But again, just to throw it in,
I mean, sharks are regularly seen in freshwater, even though
they're saltwater animals. The question of Halloween they live in
the freshwater is a whole other thing that I'm not
one hundred percent sure about, but it happens.

Speaker 4 (44:17):
Yeah. So, I mean, like we said, with this river
being connected to the ocean, it basically, you know, all
bets are off at that point.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
This thing could be anything, and not to mention, Greenland
isn't that far realistically from possibly coming in towards that
waterway in the grand scheme of the ocean.

Speaker 4 (44:34):
All right, So we're going to jump now to something
that happened a little more recently. So in March of
twenty eighteen, there was a man named Jeff Warren, and
he was fishing with his son at the Wolf Island
National Wildlife Refuge. So there's a kind of a state park,
national park wildlife refuge connection right off the bat there.

(44:57):
But this place is located in Golden Eye Isles, Georgia.
And when him and his sun were fishing, he saw
something strange washed up on the riverbank and he went
to investigate this thing, and he discovered what appeared to
be like the carcass of what he described as a
lock nest type thing. The carcass was approximately five feet

(45:20):
in length, with a quote snakelike body, small head, flippers,
and tail fins. So this thing, obviously it's smaller than
a lot of the reports that we've talked about. But
Warren took several photos of this thing on his cell
phone and he sent them to the Savannah Morning News
newspaper and the newspaper kind of contacted these like multiple

(45:44):
local experts, but by the time they arrived on the scene,
the carcass was no longer there, presumably you know, like
floated out to see or got eaten or something. But anyway,
when Jeff Warren's photos were later released to the public,
it of course what led to widespread speculation that this

(46:04):
carcass belonged to a juvenile ALTI.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
Just out of curiosity, is this the imagery referring to
I want to see if I could find it.

Speaker 4 (46:14):
Yes, that is it right there?

Speaker 3 (46:15):
Okay, I just want to make sure and bring it
up on the visuals. Nonybody want to see it?

Speaker 4 (46:19):
Yep. So a lot of experts were still kind of
skeptical of this whole account. And there's a naturalist at
the University of Georgia named John Crawford and he stated, quote,
I am convinced the sea creature is a constructed model
of a baby al To Mahaha monster. And there is

(46:40):
a marine biologist at Jacksonville University named Quentin White, and
he said quote that could easily be faked. I think
someone's playing a joke on us. But on the other
side of the coin, Dan Ash, who is the director
of the US Fish and Wildlife Service, suggested that it
could have been some sort of deep sea shore there

(47:00):
you gom h that had decomposed quote in a way
where it looks like it has a long neck and
tiny head, resembling a prehistoric creature. So that kind of
gets back to your what was the shark species that
we were just talking about, the Greenland shark? The Greenland shark,
so I think that would probably count as a deep

(47:22):
sea shark, don't you.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
Oh, that's specifically where it says that it's a deep
sea shark. And just to throw this in too, I
was looking up where these things typically can be seen,
and not only are they seen in Greenland, but they've
also been known to be spotted near Canada, and they're
also known to come up to shallower water during the
colder months. So I don't know, let's see, we got
January for the one, so definitely one of the quote
colder months. So I mean again, maybe we're kind of

(47:45):
wrapping around to the possibility of this thing being this
type of shark and talking about this image. Of course,
talking again from somebody who keeps fish tanks and everything.
When a fish dies It's not like on nature where
everything comes in and starts with ripping it apart. It's
like little piece by piece fishial nipack it is. It's
floating through the water and starts turning into this amorphous
goo and things keep picking at it. So it's very

(48:05):
easy for things to become misshapen when they die in
the water and they start sucking in water and being
eaten by other fish like, it can change the shape
of it real damn quick.

Speaker 4 (48:16):
So yeah, kind of closing out this section and this
I just kind of had to chuckle a little bit.
So there is a New York City based performance artist
known as Zardoolu the myth Maker, and so take all
that with you know, whatever you will. But anyway, this
performance artist allegedly claimed responsibility for this creature carcass thing

(48:41):
and claimed that it was made out of a stuffed
shark and paper mache, which I meant here. I mean,
the picture doesn't look very paper mache to me. But
I don't know what do you think about that one.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
I mean, have you ever tried to put paper mache
and water? I mean, I don't think it's hold any
type of shape. I think it's just gonna.

Speaker 4 (49:01):
Turn down pache since like third grade.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
Well, the whole point of how it sticks is that
you get it wet. So if it gets wet, this
thing's just gonna turn into a crumpled mess of goo
and it's not gonna have any shape. So the paper
maybe the shark if you're using the shark krcass to
reproduce stuff, but the paper mache aspect, like you lost
me on that one.

Speaker 4 (49:17):
Yeah, I think Zardu lose full of shit.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
It sounds like another performance artist that's trying to promote
himself because you know, it's one of those things that
no press is bad press. So if he gets his
name in the newspaper, then people are looking at his art,
so you know, take the opportunity when you get it.
I guess just like all the people that came out
with the Patterson Gimblin film, like I was the man
in the suit, Like yeah, except suits in Hollywood weren't
that good at the time. So like, you're fucking crazy,

(49:41):
get out of here.

Speaker 4 (49:42):
I made the fucking paper mache shark.

Speaker 3 (49:44):
Dude. You start looking into those people too that were
like faking that thing, and I guarantee you there are
people that were like costume designers and shit like that.
They're looking for an opportunity and trying to take advantage
of it, just like this artist probably was.

Speaker 4 (49:55):
Well yeah, so, I mean on our power ranking of
possible shit, I lost my train of thought. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
On the rank of one to bullshit or for from
ten to bullshit. On whether or not this paper machine
thing is true, I give it a straight bullshins.

Speaker 4 (50:14):
Our doolu down at the power ranking bottom of like
possibilities on this thing.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
Yeah, absolutely, I was gonna say. I mean, I'm not
saying that that carcass was for sure what this thing is,
but I don't think it was some artists created thing.
I think, if anything, I mean, weird stuff washes up
on the shore all the time, and this is probably
another case of that. I'm not saying that it was
this particular thing, but it was clearly probably some carcass
of something. Hold that thought. We'll be right back after
this brief commercial break and we are back to the show.

Speaker 4 (50:50):
Let's hop right in all right, So now we're gonna
kind of get into thoughts and theories and things of
that nature, and a lot of this we've kind of
already touched on throughout the episode. But there's been several
different known species that have been theorized as like the
true identity of this creature. And this includes eels, sturgeon, manatees, porpoises, seals,

(51:10):
and this is my favorite one, even a quote conglomeration
of sea otters. And you know, the idea behind this
is that if you've got like a bunch of sea
otters fucking swimming together, you would mistake it for a
way bigger creature.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
But this is a.

Speaker 4 (51:26):
Kentucky meat Showers levels of stupid as far as I'm concerned.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
Yeah, I feel like it would have been more plausible
if they would have said a school of fish. Then
oh yeah, just two animals simultaneously just swimming together perfectly.
That everybody, who's fuckload of sea otters, they've just seen
this multiple times and it's just fucking sea otters.

Speaker 4 (51:41):
Like, No, this one's even dumber than Zardulu the myth Maker.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
I think that this one almost ranks as dumb as
with the Grafton Monster being an old lady dragon a
fridge down the street.

Speaker 4 (51:50):
It's right up there. I mean, we need to make
like a mount rushmore of dumb. Uh, like explanations for things,
and I think it's sea otters, refrigerator, Kentucky meat shower.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
I think that we officially need to purposely always have
the bullshit meter going, and every time we hit something
like this, we just hit a b that's that's it's
definitely deserves a bullshit for sure, straight bullshit, so on
the not bullshit scale. Though it's also been suggested that
this thing could be an alligator gar. I could see

(52:23):
that alligator gars are sometimes referred to as living fossils,
and they are known to grow up to ten feet
in length, and they do have like small little fins
by their heads. But what's really interesting about these things
is they.

Speaker 4 (52:37):
Have the ability to breathe in both air and water,
which could kind of account for some of the sightings
when these things are seen, like on the banks of
the river and you know, writhing in the mud and
trying to get back into the water and whatnot. And
as you can see in these pictures you got pulled up,
they're pretty fucking gnarly looking.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Oh yeah, let'll see that kind of cool. I recently
started figuring out about a bunch of different species fish
that have this ability, so plecos same thing. They're one
of those types of fish. They can exist outside of
water for I think it's up to like twenty four hours.
And I guess the reason for this adaption happening was
because certain types of fish they stay in waters that

(53:15):
you know, the water starts to get shallow and then
it comes back up. So it's supposed to be like
an evolutionary adaptation to make it so that they can
survive in these conditions. So again going into the whole
aspect of this thing being seen on the shore, I mean,
it could be one of those animals that have adapted
to be able to breathe outside of water because it
knows that it'll be in these types of situations.

Speaker 4 (53:34):
Well, and the only thing that I think kind of
discredits this theory is it says they can grow up
to ten feet in length, and ten feet's kind of
on the lower scale on a lot of the reports
that we've talked about. But I mean, other than that,
I think it's you know, kind of spot on. This
thing is like vaguely snake like. It does have small

(53:54):
little fins. So I think this is a really good
theory personally.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
And I mean, just to extend on that too. We
always talk about these pocket areas, especially in weird areas
like Little Amazon. I mean, like, how weird of an
area is that could we dealing Could we be dealing
with the pocket species of gar for example, of alligator
car that only exists in this region, Because there's a
lot of that in the United States, like venus fly
traps only existing in one place in the entire fucking world.
And it's this weird swamp that's I believe not too

(54:21):
far from you.

Speaker 4 (54:22):
Yeah, yeah, like two hours down the road.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that can only exist
in one particular area for whatever reason. And again Little Amazon,
like where else in the entire car like us, is
there a place that has a name like that? Like
this is clearly a weird ecosystem to begin with, Yeah,
for sure.

Speaker 4 (54:37):
And yeah, I think if we're going to go the
route of Okay, what's the most likely scenario, I think
this can probably account for a lot of the sidings.
Not all of them, of course, because some of them
are just like way too big for it to be
this thing. But you know, I think a lot of
the sidings probably could be boiled down to these things.

Speaker 3 (54:57):
And just to throw it into of course, you have
an initial couple sightings, and now that the initial couple
of sightings exist, they're in the minds of people. So
now you got to take into consideration people are going
to misidentify known things for this thing because they have
the idea of it existing in the area there.

Speaker 4 (55:11):
Because it's already in the social consciousness at that point exactly.

Speaker 3 (55:15):
So any time anybody sees anything weird they're not familiar with,
they're instantly going to put that name on it. Unfortunately.

Speaker 4 (55:19):
Now, well, speaking of things in the social consciousness, another
popular theory is that ALTI could be some sort of
like relic prehistoric creature similar to Lockness. And what's interesting
about this theory is that many of the original settlers
to this area in southeastern Georgia actually came from the
Scottish Highlands, which is obviously near Lockness, and it's been

(55:43):
suggested that a lot of these settlers could have brought
tales of the Lochness Monster with them from Scotland, and
then over time these kind of got confabulated with sightings
of some sort of local creature, whether that be you know,
a true to Foil River Sea monster, whatever, or something
more mundane like this alligator gar But I thought that

(56:04):
was kind of interesting that it does have kind of
an actual connection to the Lockness monster other than hey,
it's a sea monster that kind of looks like NeSSI.

Speaker 3 (56:13):
I think it's always really really cool and you can
watch this folklore travel over, like you know, all the
people coming from like England and stuff that were in
like the Virginia area, and they were like black shucks,
narla yao. Like it's really cool to see those connections.
I mean, some people have made add validity, so for
some people it may take it away. But either way,
I mean it's folk You're seeing folklore exist and like
create itself as it goes. Like it's just a fascinating

(56:34):
concept to me.

Speaker 4 (56:36):
Yeah, And I think you know, the fact that these
people came from the area around Lockness that you know,
has this legend about a sea monster, that doesn't necessarily
mean that there's not also one in Georgia. You know, again,
two things can be true at the same time, and.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
I mean it's one of those things that it's like
sasquatch at this point, like you see this typical marking
of this aquatic creature everywhere, like it's not even just
in Lake Locke, like Champ like Pressy, Like they all
have this basic shape and idea and it's that pleasiosaur
kind of idea. And it's just like which which came first,
you know what I mean? Because like the whole idea

(57:11):
of like I don't know when the plesiosaur was discovered,
but I know that like a lot of the dinosaur
stuff was happening late eighteen hundreds, early nineteen hundreds, that's
when they really like discovered quote rediscovered or ever you
want to say it for dinosaurs and stuff. So kind
of brings in a whole other area of fascination that
the loch Ness monster stories existed before then. So it's
like where did they get the idea of the plesiosaur,

(57:32):
like the chicken and the egg type of thing, Like
what came first? Was it the dinosaur discovery and they
put the name on or there's clearly something in the area,
and then they connected it later to the fact that
it looks like a plesiosaur.

Speaker 4 (57:41):
Well, and we've had you know, legends of sea monsters
and like monsters forever. So I mean again, chicken and
egg situation is it? You know, all these people are
describing dinosaurs they saw or are these like actual sea
monsters that existed later. But yeah, I think is always
interesting to think about these kind of chicken and egg

(58:03):
folklore type situations, and like I always say, what could
these things mean in like real world terms, and I
mean even connecting it possibly to some more real lord terms,
if we are dealing with some type of like pocket
species of something that's prehistoric. I mean, could it be
the same as like with lions or with bears or
whatever that they all have, like this is their territory
that they hunt in. So that's why you're seeing like

(58:24):
one big one in each of these giant lakes is
because there can't really be a sustainable system of these
things because once they get to a certain size, they
probably shove off and go find somewhere else to live
because there's just not enough in the area for it
to sustain a whole population of these things, and a
lot of these apex predators like to live in solitarity
besides when they're reproducing. Yeah, I mean, even when one

(58:45):
of these things gets to be five or six feet long,
I mean, at that point it's the biggest thing in
the river. So I mean it's just not really sustainable
for there to be a ton of these things at
that point.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
Exactly like I said, and people kind of seeing these
things all over the country. I mean, could we be
dealing with all of these aquatic monster sightings are all
the same species of things. It's just a matter of
maybe they have an area and then they all kind
of spread out from there to find their own water
paths in different areas.

Speaker 4 (59:13):
And maybe that's why we see, you know, similar stories
all across the globe. And again they are pretty remarkably consistent.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
And I mean not to just to throw this in too,
I mean, if these things have been around since the
prehistoric times, like who knows what their like mental capacity is.
Like I'm not saying that they're like human intelligent or
anything like that, but I mean dolphins, whales, like they're
pretty intelligent animals, So you could be dealing with the
same thing with this, Like maybe the reason you can't
catch it is because it's smart enough to know how
to not be caught. Hold on site, guys, this is

(59:45):
our last break, so stay tuned, and.

Speaker 4 (59:56):
Now we're getting back to the bizarre, all right, So
we're gonna jump into like miscellaneous and conclusions at this point,
and a lot of this stuff we've kind of already
touched on, but just some kind of local folklore type stuff.
Throughout the years, the Alta Mahaha or Alty has become
significant to like the folklore of this area in southeastern Georgia,

(01:00:19):
particularly in the town of Darien, and the Darien Macintosh
County Visitor Center has this large sculpture of the creature.
And when you had pictures pulled up earlier, I saw
you had a picture of the sculpture pulled up.

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
Actually, I'll bring it back up right now for you.

Speaker 4 (01:00:36):
Yeah, So this sculpture was created by a paleo artist
named Rick Spears.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
This guy r here.

Speaker 4 (01:00:44):
Yep, that's it right there.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
And for all the audio listeners, I'll make sure that
I include this in the cover art because this is
probably one of the best representations of this creature. So
I'll make sure you guys can see in the cover art.

Speaker 4 (01:00:53):
Also, Yeah, it's pretty cool looking, but it was based
off of eyewitness descriptions. And this visitor center also has
like information and exhibits about the creature, and they also
have like a little gift shop that sells soon ears
and you know, t shirts and coffee mugs and whatnot
depicting the creature, which I thought was kind of fun
and interesting. The alt to Mahaha is also featured in

(01:01:17):
a video game, and for once, it is not Fallout
all dang. It's a twenty fifteen video game called South
of Midnight, which, of course I know nothing about. Maybe
some of our people on Twitch that we also know
nothing about can tell us about that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
I was gonna say those Twitch people, they might know.

Speaker 4 (01:01:35):
But anyway, we kind of already talked about this, but
it's kind of in my wrap up of thoughts and theories.
I think it's interesting to note that, like we said,
the descriptions of this thing have remained like remarkably consistent
across several decades. I mean, the size, the color, the behavior,
the general appearance all pretty much the same.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
I mean, this is consistent with almost any aquatic animal,
just or any aquatic crypt It it seems like because
you feel like of the aquatic ones, everybody specifically says,
you know, it's as big around as a man, like.
It's just the language people use is exactly the same
in all of these reports, and that's why I included

(01:02:15):
so many of them. In so many direct quotes because
I wanted to like build this case of everybody's describing
the same thing here, you know, and I mean continuing
on with that, I mean does that I feel like
in a weird way, it brings some validity to it,
just like the whole sasquartch thing. If you're seeing this
same aquatic creature in all over the planet, like there
there has to be something to it, Like it's not
just a misidentified animal at this point. If people keep

(01:02:37):
describing this thing the same, whether it's in Lake Lockness,
it's in Lake Michigan, it's over here in Georgia, like
it's always the same with these aquatic creatures.

Speaker 4 (01:02:45):
Yeah, for sure. And you know, like we kind of
talked about the only real discrepancy in these sightings. Of
course there's you know, some size discrepancy, but that could
be chalked up to juveniles versus adults. But the presence
of like fins or these other small appendages, that's kind
of a point of contention. And the thing about the

(01:03:06):
sculpture that you've got pulled up, it has pretty large
fins on the sculpture, which seems, you know, not quite
in line with a lot of the reports we've talked
about where if they you know, mentioned fins at all,
they're much smaller. But hey, this could be just because
that's how this guy needed to build this thing to
get it to stand on that base there, you know,
So there could be some artistic liberties taken.

Speaker 3 (01:03:28):
Speaking of artistic liberties, I just stumbled upon this, and
maybe this also might be a connecting piece. I know
it's not necessarily from the same area, but there is
this other Native American creature because I looked up water
dragons and this is what the renditions look like, and
it seems like it's still relatively close to what we're
describing here. So this might be another legend that exists
in other places with this aquatic dragon concept. And I

(01:03:50):
know I'm gonna butcher the name, but on on you.
That's how I'm assuming you'd pronounce it. But this comes
from close enough for me. Yeah, close enough for me.
It's from the tape, So if anybody wants to kind
of look into it a little bit, but yeah, aquatic
water dragon and look at it looks like a like
a snake serpent looking thing. I mean, there's another tribe
seeing the same thing, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:04:10):
On that kind of cave painting looking image like fourth
went over on the top road. Like even the like
head snout thing kind of is similar to what we've
talked about in this episode.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
So again, dude, when you see something everywhere, it's like
there has to be something to it, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:04:25):
Yeah, for sure. And that's kind of a great segue
into the next thing out in the notes, which we
already kind of touched on. You know, a lot of
these eyewitnesses were experienced fishermen. They would have known, you know,
the local animals and aquatic creatures, they would have had
sized comparisons with their boats and whatnot. And also, unlike

(01:04:46):
a lot of other lake and river monsters we've talked
about on the show, kind of like Normy, the Lake
Norman monster, I think a lot of these eyewitness descriptions
of the Assamaha Haa they can't be as easily disregard
garded as like a misidentified known animal, Like with Normy,
you could pretty easily say, hey, that was probably just

(01:05:07):
a big catfish. And you know, a lot of the
descriptions of Normy were kind of all over the place.
They weren't nearly as consistent as this case so to
me kind of my overarching thoughts on this, I think
all of this kind of supports the idea that, more
so than a lot of cryptids and things that we
talk about on the show, this all to Mahaha, could

(01:05:29):
truly be some sort of undiscovered or prehistoric creature or
you know, like you said, some sort of just small
pocket entity creature that has found some way to thrive
in this little amazon type environment. So I think this
is like a really really plausible thing. Like we talk

(01:05:50):
about some wild things on the show, this one seems
like downright believable to me. But uh, what are your
kind of take home thoughts on this one?

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
Honestly, I'm kind of in the same spot when it
comes to a lot of these like aquatic Maybe it's
just a matter of the water's mysterious because we can't
venture into it as easily as we can on land.
But I don't know. I put a lot of stock
and validity into this stuff, and just for the sake
of Devil's Advocate, as far as the size go, there's
at least one that made reference to seeing more than
one of these things together, like it had like a
baby with it. I don't know, if maybe you came

(01:06:18):
across more in the process of it, But that is
in the mind that there will be different sizes if
there is some sort of a breeding population of these things.
So the fact that the width stays the same but
the length changes, I feel like puts validity in the
fact that there might be more than one in this area.
But you're clearly again describing the same thing. Question is
what is exactly exactly?

Speaker 4 (01:06:38):
All the reports are too similar across too long of
a time for there not to be something there. Now.
Is it as spectacular as some sort of prehistoric lock
nest creature?

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
You know?

Speaker 4 (01:06:50):
Maybe not, It could be more the alligator gar greenland
shark type scenario. But either way, I mean, I think
we can safely say these people or seeing something and
there's something at least out of the ordinary going on
in this river.

Speaker 3 (01:07:05):
You know, kind of a weird thing to think about too.
You said eighteen ninety and then the nineteen eighties. That's
about one hundred year period. So I'm kind of curious
if we might have more pocket sightings of this thing
around like two thousand and eighty, for example, because then
maybe it'll bring some validity to the whole aspect of
maybe they come to this area specifically for breeding.

Speaker 4 (01:07:23):
Well, we'll have to ask the Skynet robots when they're
running the world at that point.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
Oh my gosh, So greenland sharks. The frequency of greenland
sharks reproducing is largely unknown, but the estimation is that
they sexually mature and reproduce once in their life, around
the age of one hundred and fifty.

Speaker 4 (01:07:39):
Wow, I think we may have at your official guess
on this one. The greenland shark.

Speaker 3 (01:07:44):
My official guess is a pocket of greenland sharks that's
somehow far and away to existence in freshwater. That's I
keep pushing myself further into this corner that I think
that there's a lot of validity to it being the
greenland shark or some sub form or some variation of
the greenland shark, especially considering that they are seen in Canada.
I mean, it's not that much farther to go down
the coast, especially for aquatic things.

Speaker 4 (01:08:04):
I mean, especially if they're known to migrate to warmer temperatures.

Speaker 3 (01:08:08):
So m hm, and they come up I mean to
the water in your colder months. So again, you did
the January siding. When were the other sightings were do
they seem like they were around like wintertime.

Speaker 4 (01:08:18):
A lot of them were like winter spring. There was
a couple of summer ones. But again, if this thing,
you know, got trapped down here in the summer, it
would still be here, so.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
M and again there, I mean primarily the majority of
them are seen their winter, so I mean definitely, and
again they are known to come up to more shallow
water during that time, so possibly accidentally come in from
the ocean into these fresh water areas definitely seems plausible
to me.

Speaker 4 (01:08:42):
Yeah, So that is not a theory I came across
in any of my research into this, So I think
it's pretty cool that you kind of stumbled upon that
one as we were going along. But hey, I think
it's a really good theory. I think it's right up
there the alligator gar that's like kind of my second
most plausible thing at this point.

Speaker 3 (01:09:01):
And just to throw this in it because it'll get
even crazier. Some of these have been seen to exceed
living five hundred years wow, So it just extends that
a little bit more with the whole coming into this
area at certain times, Like it doesn't seem that plausible
for something that lives five hundred years to try to
reproduce every hundred years. So I'm yeah, I'm curious, like
we'll have to I don't even know if we'll be

(01:09:22):
able to even remember this at this point, but twenty
and eighty, I feel like there's a good possibility there
might be another pocket of these things being seen.

Speaker 4 (01:09:28):
Man, you need to find like a Greenland shark expert
to come on the show and we'll just run this
theory past them and see what they think.

Speaker 3 (01:09:35):
I'll find one, Matt. I'll take the extra time to
make sure I find one, Matt. I feel like it
might be a weird pocket. But Greenland they speak English,
so we might be in luck.

Speaker 4 (01:09:45):
But no, I mean, I think this was a fun
one to research. It's kind of something out of the ordinary,
not something that I've seen a whole lot of people
talk about. Like I said, I saw it in a
couple of books. A big shout out to our buddy
and friend of the show, Lyle Blackburn one of his books.
I got a lot of the information for this episode
out of. But yeah, fun one to do. And Shane,

(01:10:07):
GoldStar to you for coming up with your green One
shark theory.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
Dude, that was awesome. I didn't. I totally stumbled on
that on accident, But I feel like that's maybe we
actually contributed something new to this one. That's always a perk.
I like when we can do these shows and we
don't feel like we're just spatting the same information, even
if it's just a little bit of something. Dude, it's
cool to be able to contribute something to whatever the
mythos is of this particular creature.

Speaker 4 (01:10:28):
Well, hey, it's few and far between whenever we get
to do something productive on this show, So maybe this
is one of those few times. And maybe that guy
who left his really snotty YouTube comment will listen to
this one. We'll be like, hey, maybe those guys aren't
such dumb asses.

Speaker 3 (01:10:42):
Yeah, and go back to listen to our Beast of
Bladen Barrow episode and see how we connected with hyenas
in the area and talking about everybody released a bunch
of hyenas at the time. Because I'm still pretty damn
convinced that the Beast of Bladen Borrow was just a
pack hyenas. What about a conglomeration of sea otters that's
definitely possible, or land otters, conglomeration of of land owners.

(01:11:03):
I don't know man, all right.

Speaker 4 (01:11:05):
Shane, If anybody wants to get up with us for
any reason whatsoever, tell them how they can do that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:10):
First and foremost, you guys can get ahold of us
through email, which is Bizarre Encounters at outlook dot com.
You guys can also get up with us through social media.
Instagram and Facebook are the two that we are the
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the top of our link tree and the last way
you guys can get ahold of us. And you guys
can also call in and leave your encounters for the
Halloween special. You guys can call it the Bizarre Reality

(01:11:31):
Media Hotline and that number is three one three, three
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guys can text or call that twenty four to seven.
And if you guys leave an encounter, we would definitely
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want to remain anonymous, just throw it in there. I
can change your guys' voices again.

Speaker 4 (01:11:49):
As long as it scary robot voices.

Speaker 3 (01:11:52):
Only scary Robot Alex Jones, and you.

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some additional discounts and credits available for you guys. And
every single thing that we had mentioned is all available
down in the show description off of our link tree.
And with that, just like we tend to do, just
like we get off the rails on the show, we
always always keep it bizarre, so guys always always remain

(01:12:37):
and stay bizarre.

Speaker 4 (01:12:39):
Bizarre Bizarre a conglomeration of sea otters.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
What the heck

Speaker 4 (01:13:00):
In order by people into of people in

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#125 The Altamaha-ha River Monster

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#125 The Altamaha-ha River Monster

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