#126 Abduction of the Wyoming Hunter: The Carl Higdon Encounter

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Any one.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
And I looked out and there was this big, red,
blinking UFO. I can just say this, something's going on
in the woods. Something's going on. They're not dogs, they're
not coyotes. What could it be?

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Right?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
I had an encounter with a skunk cake and it
completely altered the course of my life.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
I got a call got Tolock on building.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
What about saying sightings of a UFO covering over a farm.
Really woke up from a dream.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
And when I went into the bedroom, she said, there's
a market here on the wall. They saw that the
creature had run through a barbed wire fence that they
were able to obtain cares. They sent hairs to their.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Lab and it came back as an online creature Creatures
shit Borne Welcome back Bizarre rights to the most bizarre
show on the Internet. I am the one that some
people refer to as Shane Squatch. And if you're ever

(01:21):
wondering how the dynamics of that works, I have a
simple answer for you.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
That's watch my.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Daddy and he's got new project me. Yes, Sasquatch is
my daddy, and alongside me I have the big bad
Boo Daddy himself, Sir Orrin Felix Sneady.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
Is that how a Shane Squatch is created. It's on
a sasquatch and a human woman love each other very much.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah, that's typically how it works. I mean, you look
at all the DNA evidence and that seems to definitely
be how it works. You got the female mom, and
you have the unknown father, which is clearly a sasquatch,
which is what makes me Shane Squatch.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Okay, Well, hey, there's a lot of different directions we
could go, like unknown fathers and stuff like that, so
I'm just gonna leave that one alone.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
My dad is very elusive, my friends. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Is he blurry and all the family photos?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Dude? He is the fucking Hide and Seek champion. But
I heard he's running for president twenty twenty six Big
America for Bigfoot and leading into our exciting stuff that
we got going on today, well somewhat exciting for something
that's gonna be happening in the future if anybody hasn't
been catching it. We are trying to put together a
Halloween special for you guys. We're gonna be sharing some

(02:35):
Halloween stories and hopefully have some people call in and
leave their experiences. We could definitely do it live, but
I'm kind of planning on doing it somewhat pre recorded.
So if you guys don't mind calling in leaving some
of your bizarre experiences with either cryptids, aliens, UFOs or
anything weird, you guys can always call into our hotline
which is three one three through six four one five

(02:56):
five one, And of course you guys can do that
twenty four to seven. And if you guys would like
to text your story, also definitely an option to And
as we mentioned last week, we can also change your
voice if you want to remain anonymous, but specifically, like
we said last week, you have to be robot Alex Jones.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah, scary robot voices only.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Scary robots only, or maybe disembodied voices that might be
kind of fun too. That might be weird to hear,
like a paranormal tale from like the perspective of the ghost.
Just it's so damn literal at that point, it might
be fun. You got to you gotta show different perspectives,
right And.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Speaking of different perspectives, our next episode of Bizarre Inquiries,
our YouTube live show, is going to be October the second.
That's a Thursday, it's going to be roughly seven to
fifteen Eastern time on the Bizarre Reality still getting used
to that YouTube channel, so you guys be sure to
submit any questions or articles or videos or anything like

(03:50):
that you want us to inquire.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
About, preferably Halloween related because it will be a Halloween special.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Two definitely Halloween related. And you guys also be to
join us in the chat as we're going live.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
And if you guys might want to send us anything
for that or contact us for any reason whatsoever, you
guys can do so through our email which is Bizarre
Encounters at outlook dot com, or you guys can always
call into our hotline and in case you missed that
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six four one five to five to one.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
And if you guys would like to support the show
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Speaker 2 (04:24):
First and foremost, you guys can go and check out
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Speaker 1 (04:45):
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Speaker 2 (04:58):
Oh shit with the I said, just look at the
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Speaker 1 (05:13):
You can share the show with friends or family or
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Speaker 2 (05:20):
Or you guys can always go and check out the
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Speaker 1 (05:26):
And as always, all this shit we've mentioned is in
the link tree in the show description. So tonight's episode
is one that Shane put together. I've read through the
notes and I'm super excited about it. It's a story
that I wasn't familiar with, but I think it's gonna
hit on a lot of things that we talk about
pretty regularly on the show. So Shane without further ado,

(05:46):
why don't you get into Tonight's topic.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
So this one is kind of an obscure one, just
like Cisco Grove. This is one of those ones that
it appears to only be talked about mainly in the
first hand encounters from the book. So what I end
up doing today for you guys putting together basically this
book into a condensed eight page format. And if anybody
wants to see this book, it is up on screen
right now. It is called Alien Abduction of the Wyoming Hunter,

(06:09):
first person account of Carl Higden, October twenty fifth, nineteen
seventy four. And this was documented by his wife. And
we'll get a little bit more into the picture and
everything else as we go on. But if you guys
want to get more information on this story than what
I provide, you guys can always go and check out
that book and I definitely recommend it. So getting into tonight.
In nineteen seventy four, a man named Carl Higden had

(06:31):
a series of bizarre experiences while hunting elk in southern Wyoming.
He was taken aboard a strange, transparent craft before being
literally dropped back to Earth in a state of utter confusion.
Carl's case is significant not just for its bizarre elements,
but for the fact that it appears to have been
an aborted UFO abduction. For that reason, it may tell
us something not just about UFO abduction experiences, but also

(06:54):
a subset of missing persons cases known as Missing four
one one, which may share a similar cause.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Done Done Dune, Done done Dune.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
And if you're not familiar with what Missing four one
one is, then I feel like you've been missing out
on this whole thing, and you should probably go back
and check that out, because we've been talking about that
one for a hot minute. I don't think we did
a full episode on it, but we did cover kind
of around the episode with our National Parks episode a
while back, Ald Go, Yeah, we talked.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
About it quite a bit in the National Parks and
Missing four one one and kind of Feral People episode.
We've probably done what is a year or so ago
at this point, and.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
We've talked about it sprinkled in with a lot of
different episodes. But I mean, if you're into the phenomenon,
we're gonna somewhat assume that you know what Missing four
one one is, and if you don't, definitely recommend going
and checking it out, but you'll kind of get filled
in a little bit more as we go along with
this one. Absolutely, but this one, like a lot of
the stuff we've been doing, this one will be interjected
into probably a lot. There's a lot of connections that
we want to point out with you guys that we've

(07:48):
been following lately. But without further ado, let's get into
the abduction itself. In late October of nineteen seventy four,
Carl Higden was forty years old and working as an
oil driller for am Wells Service in Riverton, Wyoming. On Friday,
October twenty fifth, he had an unexpected day off, so
he decided to go l hunting. He packed his new
seven millimeter magnum rifle and headed south towards McCarty Canyon,

(08:12):
which is around forty miles south of where he lived
in the small city of Rollins. And that's not Rawlins,
North Carolina. That's a Rawlins, Wyoming. And I'm hopefully saying
that correctly because that's a confusing word.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
That's what it looks like to me. W or r
a w lns or Rawlins, Rawlins. You got to say
it with a draw sir, rowlands like a cowboy. Yeah, exactly,
it is Wyoming, so it fits right exactly. During his drive,
Carl pulled over to help two fellow hunters whose pickup
truck wouldn't start over coffee. The hunters told Carl that

(08:44):
he'd have better luck in the woods. Carl took their
advice and headed to the northern edge of Medicine Bow
National Forest. If he parked his pick up on a
hill and had a brief discussion with the game warden,
which a lot of the time you don't want to do,
by the way, but right here off the rod, we're
already talking about National Force.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yup. I was waiting for you to pop in with
that one too. Around four pm when Carl began his hunt,
he walked less than a mile into the forest. When
he arrived at a clearing, he noticed five elk one
hundred feet away, all entirely still. He pointed his rifle
at the largest mail and pulled the trigger. To his surprise,
no sound was made and the bullet left the barrel

(09:23):
in slow motion. It stopped around fifty feet in front
of him, seemingly hitting something invisible before dropping into the snow. Strangely,
the elk didn't flinch, and Carl noticed that the forest
was unnaturally silent.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
So, if you don't mind me jumping in Rode Castle
a lot a couple of things here. First off, it
seems like in a lot of these and I know
you're gonna kind of tie this in later in the episode,
but like missing persons cases, and also like historic faery accounts,
a lot of times they happened in a clearing in
the woods, So I thought that was kind of funny.

(09:57):
And then also the whole thing about the being unnaturally silent.
I mean, how many times do we talk about this
and like the oz effect or whatever with big footcases
and whatnot. So I mean, we're already checking off a
lot of boxes and we're only a couple paragraphs in here.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
You know, what I find kind of strange is that
it seems like the forest goes silent when there's apex
predators around. That being said, even like bigger game around,
like everything goes silent. Why is it that it doesn't
go silent when humans are around? You ever noticed that,
Like we're apex predators, Why do the bugs and stuff
just not seize to make sound when we're around.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Maybe nature knows we're not the apex predator.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
I mean in comparison to what else might be out there.
I mean they hear that Ufo Humman and they're like, yep.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Silent, or those dog man's out there.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, one of them, or the sasquatches or the ghosts
or anything weird that might be in the woods. After
retrieving the bullet and putting it in his shirt pocket,
Carl noticed a large transparent box on the ground that
was five feet high and five feet wide and seven
feet long. And I already want to interject on this part.
I don't know if we ever had him on the show,
but have we talked to anybody from the Metal Project

(11:02):
on this show or has that just been on inquiries.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
I don't think we've talked to anybody on this show.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
So we'll have to have him on because I've had
him on inquiries a couple of times. But he talks
about this area that he has that he works in,
that's just the big clearing, that's what the meadow is.
The Metal Project and they have all these like weird
anomalies that happen, and one of them that happened was
the fact that there was this like box thing that
they were catching on their radars, and when they like
walked into it, like the people that walked into it
didn't notice any change themselves from their first person, but

(11:30):
from the people observing they said that they turned into
orbs and moved a couple hundred feet forward. So this
whole idea of a big clearing with these transparent boxes.
This might link into some of the work with Trey
Hudson the Metal Project too, So maybe we'll have to
have him on as a guest at some point to
kind of dive into it a bit.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
But yeah, for sure, that sounds super interesting.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Maybe we can try to get him on maybe this
month or next month. I'll try to hit him up
after the show. Might be a fun one to do
after this one sounds good, so hop him back in.
It looked to be made of glass and was empty
inside something nearby. Carl turned around to find a strange
looking humanoid floating upright before him, wearing a black suit
similar to that of a scuba diver. Carl estimated the

(12:09):
being to be around six foot two inches tall and
one hundred and eighty pounds. Its skin was like that
of an Eastern Asian person with a face similar to
a human's but with no chin and a severely receded jaw.
It had no eyebrows, no ears, and small slanted eyes.
Its coarse, straw like straw colored hair stood straight out
from its head like bristles on a broom, grouped into

(12:31):
small bunches spaced a half inch apart. There were two
distinct rods coming from the top of its head that
looked to be antennas. The entity was wearing black shoes
and a wide belt with six pointed star, with a
six pointed star where the buckle should be and a
yellow symbol below it on a type of small apron.
Its legs were noticeably bowed outward. It had no hands,

(12:53):
but there was a cone shaped appendage and I'm sure
you want to make a comment on this in a
second or device sticking out of its right sleeve. Hig
didn't refer to the being as a man, suggesting that
it had some male characteristics.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
I'll let you take it away with the cone shaped
appendage because I have some other thoughts that I want
to throw in about stuff in this paragraph.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
Okay, so already off of that. If anybody listened to
our episode, about Pascagoula. That was one of the main
things with the Pascagoula abduction was there was the two
creatures extra trestols, whatever you want to call them, that
originally showed up to abduct the two fishermen, and they
both had cone shaped hands, the only difference being that
they were on both hands and their entire body was metallic.
But the only time that I've really seen this cone

(13:35):
shaped thing happening, and I'm sure that there probably is
a lot more cases is this one and Pascagoula. So
I don't know there's something weird with that one. But
Pascagoula also was one of the ones that we always
talk about with our continued experiment theory that there was
the mask line of the female one that was inside
the ship when they got abducted. And maybe as we
go farther along with this one, we might catch some

(13:57):
more human ties. But you know, maybe maybe there's something
to that.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yeah, definitely some interesting connections between Pascagoula and this one.
Some other things I noticed. There's a lot of like
men in black connections with all this too. First off,
they talk about how the skin was that of an
East Asian person and in Keel he always talks about
how these men in black entities have you know, vaguely

(14:22):
Asian type skin, and also he's talking about the entity
wearing black shoes. Kil also talks about how these things
wear like big, thick, rubber soled shoes a lot of times,
so it doesn't necessarily comment on the soles of the shoes,
but I thought that was interesting. Nonetheless, the fact that
it had straw colored hair. We talk about like the

(14:43):
Nordic extraterrestrials a lot, just something else. I made a
note of these two are a little bit more tenuous,
but I thought i'd mentioned nonetheless six pointed star. You know,
it's kind of like a Star of David type thing.
I'm just gonna leave it there, not gonna comment anymore.
And then also the fact that they talk about how
it has an apron, And at first I thought this

(15:06):
was kind of an odd detail, and then I got
to thinking, Okay, what's the only thing on the show
we've talked about about aprons, and it's the Freemasons.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
So also to make another weird connection too, that I
was talking to somebody semi recently who started he was
basically tearing down the idea of Satanic ritual abuse. And
he was talking about this idea about splitting the mind
into four different fractions, and he was saying something about one.
I'm going to break it down really badly, but he's
basically saying that one of the beings that kind of
controls one of the hemispheres has a symbol that looks down,

(15:35):
and the other one has a symbol that looks up,
and you put them together and it looks like either
one the Freemason symbol or the Star of David. So
there's also something that kind of links in with the
Star of David in Freemasonry, and this whole idea of
mind control, which might link back to some of our
human stuff that we're mentioning earlier.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah, So, like I said, not to get too thick
in the weeds with all that or too controversial, but
just a couple of little things I noticed there.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
And I'm glad that you brought up the thing about
men in black. I didn't catch that one at first,
but yeah, you are correct that when he was talking
about it in the book for Mothman Prophecies, he always
talked about the like Asian looking eyes, So really could
catch there. I didn't catch that the first time. Yep. Yeah,
we apologize guys for the interference, but we will be
right back and now back to the show, so hopping

(16:27):
back in and then we're already probably gonna have another
interjection here in a minute, because this gets a little
weird now. The entity moved towards Karl By floating above
the snow. When it got within a few feet of Higgden,
it asked him, are you hungry? Even though its lips
never moved when it spoke, possibly like Sam the sand
Down Clown, I mean, sounds pretty similar, right, even asked
the kids if they want to see a trick if
they were hungry, and did the thing with the berries

(16:49):
in its eyes if you remember.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, And it seems like, you know, we thought Sam
the Sanddown Clown was kind of this odd ball, you know,
kind of out of left field story when we covered
that on the show. But then since we've done that episode,
it seems like there's connections and things that have popped
up pretty routinely about that story. So it's kind of
funny that, you know, this story that doesn't seem a

(17:13):
quote unquote to fit a lot of the motifs of
abductions and alien visitations and whatnot. If you look hard
enough and look into kind of the more weird stories
like this one, there's a lot of similarities there.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
And I mean, if you get into the possibility of
these things being able to possibly change their appearance, you
get into a lot of the stuff with Sam the
sandown clown, and it's, you know, the typical UFO motif
he had, like the weird little metal shack looking thing.
He spoke through this little thing where he was able
to like speak into their heads. The only thing that
throws people off is the fact that he appeared to
be appeared to look like he was made of wood,
and he looked like a clown. So that being said,

(17:45):
if they're trying to hide themselves, and again that was
a kind of an earlier case, you know, is it
possible that that could have been some type of camouflage
and everybody just gets thrown off by the visuals of
it and not the finite details of it.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Well, and again, I mean, you're more familiar with the
Sam story than I am. But didn't that story come
kind of word of mouth from two children, So again,
it could be one of those situations of them just
describing what they saw with the best language they had.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yep. And then the dad mainly believed it because he
had the weird UFO experience like directly before, and then
end up having another one pretty soon after. So I mean, yeah,
maybe also it connections with the human idea that we're
mentioning for sure, but hop mackin Carl replied yes. Then
a small envelope or packet of four pills floated towards
him and the entity to cald Carl to take one.

(18:34):
Carl mentioned that he was normally extremely reluctant to take pills,
but he promptly swallowed one, as if he were being controlled,
as he claimed. The entity then asked Carl if he
wanted to go with it, and he replied I might
as well. Carl expressed his later choice was his own.
Having read about UFO encounters in the past, he had
previously resolved to go with the UFO nots should he

(18:58):
ever encounter one himself. The entity pointed it's cone shape
appendix at Carl, and then suddenly he found himself elsewhere.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
So something that I thought was kind of interesting. And
remember a long time ago when we talked to Alan Greenfield,
which for you listeners out there, if you're not familiar
with him and his work, he's kind of practicing magician, occultist, whatever.
But anyway, he's got a lot to do with the
Hellier documentary series. I'm sure a lot of you guys

(19:27):
out there have listened to or seen that in the
work of Dana and Greg Nwkirk. But anyway, it's in
that documentary. I believe that they talk about the phrasing
of euphonauts and how that's like a very niche phrasing
for aliens basically.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
And he specifically used that, by the way. That's why
I put that in there, because it was weird.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Well I figured that since you had it in quotation marks,
and I was like, wow, that's kind of odd that
this guy used that specific phrasing, because you know, either
that was like almost downloaded onto him in some way,
or he was kind of deeper in this whole subject
than he kind of led on just from the notes here.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
See. I kind of feel like that might be the
case because also think about the time, you know, this
is one of those times you weren't just going around
telling everybody like, yeah, I love reading UFO books. I
love doing this. I love doing that. So you know,
even if he was reading it for fun, I mean,
clearly this guy had some interest in UFOs because that
wasn't one of those things that was like ridiculously prominent.
It was like people that were looking for it, we

(20:27):
go find it. And especially using that terminology, I feel
like this guy kind of knew a little bit more
than he led off originally with this encounter.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, I mean, this is nineteen seventy four. It's not
like you could just google something on the internet and
read a couple articles. I mean, to find this information,
you would have to go and seek it out. And Yeah,
for him to use that phrasing leads me to believe
that he knew a little bit more than he led
on exactly.

Speaker 2 (20:50):
And this is about to get really, really weird. So
now we're getting to inside the box. Carl in the box?
What's in the box? Carl? Carl? Yeah, exactly. Carl's next
memory was being inside the transparent rectangular box hock that
itself seemingly within a larger transparent structure, but still resting

(21:11):
in the forest. Carl was sitting in a type of
bucket seat with his arms and head restraint. In the
reflection on the glass above him, he could see the
five elks standing motionless in a cage. The entity from
the forest was in the room, and two more similar
beings were also nearby. Carl said, you've got my elk
and one of them one of the beings shrugged, like,

(21:31):
I don't know what the fuck to tell you. Man.
We got him, We got him over here. The box
lifted off the ground and hidden looked down to see
his truck where he left it, but the main entity
waved its arms and the truck disappeared. Carl's next memory
was seeing what he described as a blue ball and
a huge marble seemingly the earth in the distance far

(21:51):
below him. The beings told Carl that they were going home,
which they said was one hundred and sixty three light
miles away. They then they put a helmet on him,
and that had six wires sticking out of it in
all directions and fashion. They strap under his chin. Get
any comments.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
At Nope, you can keep rolling, okay.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
Next everything went black before a bright light came on,
causing Karl's eyes to burn in water. Carl was now
standing in front of one of the transparent walls of
the outermost structure, looking out into the giant, featureless space
with no visible walls or ceiling. The light was coming
from the top of the tower that he likened to
the space needle in Seattle, Washington, with lights rotating around

(22:34):
the top. Before the tower, he could see several human
adults and children in casual discussion. The two entities, one
being the one that Karl met in the forest, took
him down a long walkway towards the tower. This time,
Carl was floating just like the entities. He was led
to a door that lifted up before he was taken
inside a larger room. While inside, a four by eight

(22:57):
foot shield or wall dropped down in front of him him,
then lifted back up again into the ceiling. One of
the entities then approached him and said, you're not what
we want. We'll take you back.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
Okay, I do have a couple of things I want
to unpack here, So between the whole you're not what
we want, We'll take you back. And then, like the
bright light, this is very reminiscent of a lot of
like near death experience type things, and so I'm wondering,
you know, we talk a lot about the connection between
near death experiences and abductions, and you know, just all

(23:29):
sorts of weirdness. So I thought that was kind of
an odd connection. And then also we've just got typical
UFO like Eyeburn stuff going on here.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
And also I forgot to bring it up a little
bit earlier, but I was going to bring up this
picture of Carl if anybody was curious to see it.
And of course, once you get a little bit farther in,
I will bring up some more pictures. But here's the
one of Carl and his wife. Anybody was curious, And
I'm trying to find this other picture here. I had
a picture of this tower that he was describing, but

(23:59):
now I can't figure out where it went. So I'm
trying to see if I can find it again here.
I may have accidentally deleted it, but I know I
got it somewhere here.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
That's the most Carl looking person I've ever seen. Like,
that dude's name has to be Carl.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
Yeah, there's no doubt that guy's name is Carl. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
Just like all you listeners out there that aren't looking
at the video right now, just think nineteen seventy four,
cowboy named Carl. I promise you that's what he looks like.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
And also I can't find the direct picture, but I
did bring it up within another picture, so don't pay
any attention to anything else around it. But this right here,
right here, was the picture of this tower that he
drew in was describing.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
Okay, kind of strange, right, kind of like mushroom looking almost, yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Which also makes it kind of weird with the fake connection, right, yeah,
for sure, just to point that one out too, But
all right, hop him back in here. Higgin was then
lifted out of the room back into the bright light.
His eyes burned again, and the entities told him that
the sun affect him in the same way when they
were on Earth. Higdon was then floated inside of what

(25:05):
he called a craft, where he encountered the entity from
the forest, who now identified himself as is Azo.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
One.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Azo explained that it too was a hunter, and that
its kind had been coming down to Earth for many
years in search of fish and animals to make into
food pills. Each pill fed one of its kind for
four days. Azo went on to say that their ocean
had turned yellow and that all their fish had died.
It then showed Higgen a map of its planet, which

(25:34):
was at least partially reproduced in the symbol on Azo's
apron mentioned earlier. It told him that the nine planets
of its solar system supplied the magnetic force, possibly even
linking with my UFO theory and how I said that
some of these UFOs might be able to fly for
their power. It also examined Higgden's rifle, remarking that it
would have liked to keep the primitive weapon, but it

(25:55):
was not allowed. Azo also told Carl that their kind
were black to protect them from our son. So I
got any thoughts on that one yet.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
I think the only thing I'll throw in here is,
you know, just the whole thing about how they've been
coming to Earth for many years and basically harvesting animals.
I know you're gonna touch on it a little bit more,
but that definitely gets back to, uh, you know, cattle
mutilations and cattle abductions and things like that. So I
think that was kind of an interesting little tidbit here.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
When I first read that, when you say I'm a hunter,
I thought it was reminded me of Predator at first,
and then it continued on with the of animals and fish,
and I was like, oh, okay, but you know, maybe
we're considered animals to them, So like, is that really
any less any more comforting? Probably not.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Hey, I guess it depends on what they're hungry for.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Well, they're calling our weapons primitive, so they might just
see us like primitive apes. So I mean, I wouldn't
be surprised if we're some of that, uh, some of
that animal that they consider. After the craft passed through
a dark void, Carl could see that they'd arrived over
the forest, then told Higdon it will see him. To
his surprise, Carl then found himself floating down to the

(27:05):
ground below the craft. Before landing, his foot slipped on
a rock, causing him to fall rolled down the hill
and hurt his shoulder.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
All right, So another John Keelman in Black connection right here.
When this entity told Higgdon that it will see him,
that reminded me of you know, injured cold saying that
he would see I'll see you in time or I
think that was the exact wording of it. If not,
it's pretty close.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, I think that was it. By the way, was
i'll see you in time because we're discussing that a
bit on the show.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
But yeah, that sounds kind of vaguely reminiscent of that
idea to me.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
It's kind of creepy in the sense of, you don't
know whether they're saying I'll see you like I'm gonna
come back and see you again, which is definitely creepy,
or if it's more like we're going to keep an
eye on you. Because I feel like both are just
as bad, right, like I don't want to see you again.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Sure which one's worse.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
At that point, Carl followed a nearby road until he
came upon his pickup truck, but he didn't recognize it
as his own. He sat in the truck and heard
voices on the CBE radio. After figuring out how to
use it, he managed to connect with someone who turned
out to be his boss, Roy Fleming. Fleming asked for
his name and location, but to his confused state, Carl
was not able to give either. I don't know, I

(28:13):
am so cold. He simply declared that he was in
a pickup truck with a funny stick in the middle.
Despite having learned how to drive a stick shift when
he was a kid, and just to make a comment
about the I don't know, I am so cold? Doesn't
that kind of sound a little bit like a fire
in the sky almost Wasn't that kind of something along
the lines of what he was saying when he was
found on the side of the road is I don't
know where I am. I don't know who I am.
I'm cold.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
I am actually not that familiar with that story. So
I'm gonna leave that one to you.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
But I'm pretty sure that that's I feel like we've
heard that before with UFO cases. Not that it's like
some big thing, because assumably these people have been stripped
and then put back down and stuff, but the I
don't know, I am so cold connection just seems kind
of weird. Also with Ingrid Cold, possibly, I don't know,
there's something weird with that, you know.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, I mean I definitely thought it was an interesting detail.
I kind of highlighted it here in the notes. I
didn't really have any faults about it, but I did,
you know, definitely that was one that kind of raised
red flags. There's something to unpack there. I'm just not
quite sure what.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Maybe in a future episode we'll kind of coming back
around to. We'll just have to keep that one in
the you know, the old file cabinet in the back
of the noggin.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
I'm sure it'll come back around.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Oh yeah, So getting into the rescue. It was around
six thirty pm when Fleming first heard from Higden. Carl's wife, Marjorie,
returned from work around four PM with a glowing, uneasy
feeling and had an urge to get to her husband,
and was soon alerted to Carl's distress call on the
cb Carbon County Sheriff Charles Augburn organized a search party

(29:41):
consisting of himself, Deputy Sheriff Ed Tierney Tierney. I'm just
gonna go with that. Looks good to me, Tierney, and
four local hunters. Marjorie called her friend Marilyn James, whose
husband Don took them out out in his truck to
help the search. Due to the muddy roads, the sheriff's
team had great difficulty reaching the area where they suspected

(30:02):
Carl's pickup truck to be. Marjorie and company were told
to stay on the hill and wait for their command.
After a long wait, Maryland felt the truck moving before
excitingly pointing to a larger moving star that was changing colors.
It's everyone in the vehicle then watched for about twenty
minutes as the sun moved in a large arc while

(30:23):
flashing brightly, switching color from red to green to white.
The search party announced that they'd found Karl around eleven
forty pm. His truck was found roughly three miles from
where he'd originally parked it, stuck in a mud hole
with no tire tracks leading to the site. While waiting
for searchers to return to the forest gate, the trio
noticed that a big, bright, red orange light was rising

(30:45):
on the eastern horizon, one that they'd beenstook to be
the sunrise, only realizing how unusual it was after seeing
the real sunrise later that morning. So I'm sure you
already have a comment about the whole truck being in
the random spot no tire tracks leading up to it.
I mean, definitely sounds like some missing four one one
and some other weird UFO abduction stuff.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah. I know you're going to touch on some of
them missing four on one connections later, so I don't
want to step all over that at this point. But
I did think it was kind of interesting when they're
talking about this star that changed colors and let me
find the quote here, like moved in a large arc
while flashing brightly, switching colors from red to green to white.

(31:25):
This is like typical or behavior, which I thought was
kind of interesting.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Also mentioning the arc and like the color changing from
the arc, I mean, not necessarily in the same context,
but also kind of reminiscent of the robots and Cisco
grow if you remember that one. Mm hmm, as they say,
how bizarre. When the search party returned, Marjorie immediately noticed
that Karl was still in a confused Amnizia like state.
He had difficulty talking and didn't recognize her. Marjorie tried

(31:52):
speaking to him, but he only looked back, as though
he was looking through her. In Marjorie's words, She then
asked him if he had shot him elk. Karl looked
up through the windshield and said, they took my elk.
They took my elk in a type of sing song voice,
as Marjorie, the sing song voice. What do we also
talk about sing song voices with all the time?

Speaker 1 (32:13):
Fake man in.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
Black and Faye, Yeah, we're both going. I mean they
could both be come from the same place too. I mean,
that's a whole other topic. For discussion.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Carl was visibly cold and she tried to drape her
coat over his shoulders, but he pulled back in fear, crying,
don't touch me, which typical UFO stuff. Man talk about
some deep rooted trauma that he may not have even
realized the edge of, because I mean, he definitely recounted
the majority of his experience, but with a lot of
this stuff, I feel like there's always these missing time
components that you know, he may have recounted it to

(32:43):
the best of his recollection, but I still feel like
there could have been some missing parts here.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Oh yeah, definitely, especially.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
If with the whole don't touch me thing, because realistically,
from his encounter, I mean, they had him strapped to
that chair bucket looking thing with the wires coming out
of his head, but they really didn't do any experiments
or anything on him. But getting further into it, yeah,
they may have done a little bit more to him
and maybe that's why they threw him back, and he
just may have had some memory loss in the process
of that. But we'll get into that.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
All right, guys, we got to take another break. We'll
be right back. And now we're getting back to the bazaar.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
On the drive to Carbon County Memorial Hospital in Rawlings,
Carl asked Fleming why he didn't why he wasn't dressed
in black? Doesn't the sun burn you? When Carl arrived
at the emergency room at two am, his eyes were
watering profusely, apparently from the hospital lights. His shoulder was
in pain, and he repeatedly asked for his pills that
floated to you. No bruises, bleeding, or broken bones were found.

(33:50):
Test results detected no drugs in his system. Doctor R. C.
Tonko determined Carl was experiencing amnesic shock. When Marjorie asked
him his name, he replied, they keep calling me Carl.
Who is Carl? Getting into some more weird stuff with
this stuff? I mean this, I feel like when people
have this much memory loss or they can't remember their name,

(34:11):
all this type of stuff, but they can still recount
their experience. Like I said, there was clearly some tampering
going on, because I feel like, you know, traumatic events,
you're definitely gonna have some lapses and memory loss, but
you're not gonna have lapses and memory loss to the
point where you don't remember your name simply from a
traumatic event. They had to have been doing again, more
to him than what he remembered. Otherwise I don't feel
like he would have hit that point.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
And kind of circling back around to your human intervention theory,
you know, if this was some sort of government alphabet
agency or something like that that was doing some sort
of experiment or test or whatever on this guy. You know,
we always talk about the men in black like wiping
your memory, So I mean, that's just something I thought

(34:54):
of too. There's just a ton of men in black
connections with this, whether it be the keio variety or
the more nefarious government variety. It's a conspiracy man.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
It's definitely a conspiracy man. And now we're gonna get
into the point where I could start showing you guys
some pictures. During this time at the hospital, Carl narrated
some elements of his experience, but at trouble remembering it all.
See there you go. Marjorie gave him a pencil and
paper and instructed him to write whatever he could recall.
He drew a picture of the entity, then wrote the

(35:26):
word Enders. The deputy sheriff later revealed that another man
named Enders was in a different part of the forest.
That night, Carl also drew a forked road, a rough
sketch of the transparent craft, listed two unidentified addresses, and
made another note about a truck. And I'm gonna bring
this picture up for you guys, as I was mentioning
to Orrin before the show. For whatever reason, they don't

(35:49):
include this picture in the book, so I had to
do some dig in here. But I guess if you
want to kind of unpack what you think about this
one a little bit. But it looks like the box
with the chairs over here, whatever the thing was he
was looking through the random addresses. Of course the creature itself,
and we'll get into a little bit better of a
picture of it, and then whatever the splitting road thing
is right here.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
Yeah, so very rudimentary drawing of the creature here. I
think the one that you showed from the book cover
is probably much more accurate. This kind of looks like
a child's rendering of this thing.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
This one's Carl's drawing. We'll get into the other one
in a few minutes. We ended up having somebody do
a rendition for him from him stating it, so we'll
get into that picture. But this one's Carl's.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
But what's kind of funny to me is as rudimentary
as the drawing of the entity looks like this map
like fork in the road drawing looks like pretty fucking detailed,
you know, that looks like an actual like map drawing.
And then the other thing I thought was interesting about this,
did anybody look into these addresses at the time?

Speaker 2 (36:56):
I don't think so, okay, And I'm kind of.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
It seems like a super obvious thing, like I wonder
what those meant, you know, because this is almost like
remote viewing shit at this point.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah, there wasn't any mention of the addresses past that
in the book, so I don't know. I don't think
they did anything else of the addresses. I mean, I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
And the kind of crappy thing about that is, you know,
like we talk about with a lot of stuff here recently,
these older stories were so far removed from them now,
like a lot of the informations missing and we can't
find it. Like whatever these addresses were, it would basically
be impossible for us to go back and try to
corroborate this at that at this point.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
You know, I mean, even if it was other locations
that possibly somebody got picked up from something like that.
I mean, those same people wouldn't be there anymore at
this point assumably, so again, you wouldn't be able to
follow the trail anymore.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
When the street addresses could be totally different too.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
That too, Yeah, so I see. Higdon was released from
the hospital the morning of Monday, October twenty eighth. And
now we're going to get into a bit of the
aftermath of what had happened to Carl. I mean, make
sure I got the next picture up and ready. Here.
The results of the X ray provided by doctor Tango
found nothing of concern even through Carl, even though Carl's

(38:08):
X ray, taking years before the incident, had shown scar
tissue on his lungs from a past case of tuberculosis.
Carl also had severe several kidney stones before his experience,
but none after. Still, days after being rescued, he experienced
headaches and pain in his back. So, just to clarify,
to make sure everybody caught that he had scarring that

(38:30):
disappeared and from his lung term tuberculosis, and he had
kidney stones that disappeared, but he experienced headaches and back pain.
What's your thoughts on that one.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
So it seems like a lot of time when we
talk about these encounters with extraterrestrials and their craft and whatnot.
Super bad headaches lasting you know, days, weeks, months afterwards
is a hallmark of these things. The only thing I
could think of with the back pain, if he truly
did go up into space like he was talking about,

(39:02):
and you know, saw the Earth as a blue marble,
it could be some sort of you know, gravity difference
or whatever. That's the only thing I could think of
with that.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
That's what I was thinking too. Either one has something
to do with gravity and him coming back down to Earth,
and maybe even the same with the headaches, because you know,
your brain, I feel like, would kind of sit a
little bit more suspended than you get back down to
Earth and that maybe has this kind of like pressure
push down feeling. Yeah, or on the other side, he's
talking about his back and headaches. So is it possible
that the reason they were able to cure some of
these ailments is maybe they do something that involves the

(39:33):
spine and the brain because that connects into everything. So
maybe the reason why you always hear stuff with the
back in the brain with a lot of these UFO
things is because that's their point of entry into whatever
they're doing.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yeah, no, that's definitely possible. And I know we're going
to get into some more of the kind of healing
aspects of this, so I'm gonna save some of my
thoughts for.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
That for later, and I'm gonna bring this picture up
real quick. This will be the next thing that we'll
be getting into here. When Carl spoke to Sue Taylor,
a reporter from the Daily Times of Rawling, he was
still very much mystified by his experience, confessing that he
must be crazy. Taylor's article, the first on the case,
appeared on Tuesday, October twenty ninth, which is what this

(40:15):
article is that I got up for you guys. Fleming
put Carl in touch with a local rehabilitation counselor, who
in turn suggested that he speaks with doctor Leo Sprinkle,
a psychologist at the University of Wyoming who is interested
in UFO experiences. And I will here, Leo Sprinkle is
the greatest name I've ever heard. Oh, and then here's
Carl talking to doctor Leo Sprinkle, And ah, where the

(40:37):
picture go? I know I got in here. There he
is there's doctor Leo Sprinkles.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
That's like pretty disappointing. I was expecting doctor Leo Sprinkle
would be much more lively than that. He just looks
like an accountant or something.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
An accountant or a creep. I could definitely go with creep,
and then Sprinkles might be a good name. Then maybe
that's his Uh.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
He definitely does not look like a Leo Spring.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Maybe that's his creeper name. He goes by Sprinkles, mister Sprinkles.
But anyways, here's Carl talking to him also, but getting back.
In November two, doctor Sprinkles drove to Carl's home for
the first of several regressive hypnosis sessions. Higden was able
to put more pieces of the experience together, and Sprinkle
invited a local art teacher to make a drawing of

(41:22):
a zoo. One which is that picture that I was
mentioning a little bit earlier and a little bit better
rendition of this being okay. Doctor Sprinkle went on to
meet with Marilyn James Sheriff Ogden, doctor Tango, Carl's nurse
at the hospital, and some members of the search party,
and several locals. Those who knew Carl said that they
considered him honest and hard working. Psychological and psychiatric tests

(41:45):
at the University of Wyoming revealed no signs of mental illness. See,
when you have two words that has start with the
same beginning, you kind of just like fall into the
rut of the first words you said.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
It's a tongue twister.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
One evening, Carl suggested to Marjorie they go out for
a dry with their son. Carl drove a few miles
south of town, taking a dirt road up a hill,
seemingly knowing where he was going. Over one hundred and
fifty feet in the sky above him, the family saw
a bright green light shaped like a large upside down
ice cream cone and smelt a terrible odor of dirty
socks or sulfur. Distressed, Carl then announced, I am late.

(42:21):
I was to be here a few minutes ago or
a few minutes earlier, So you got any thoughts on
the whole sulfur thing already and the weird him being
drawn to this location?

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Yeah, I mean, how many times do we talk about
the smell of sulfur on this show? Doesn't matter what
we're talking about, aliens, Bigfoot, I mean, even like more
paranormal ghost type stuff. The smell of sulfur is always present.
The thing about him like being drawn to this location.
This is something that I've come across and I'm sure
you have as well. A lot in like these UFO cases,

(42:54):
when someone has an abduction or a sighting or an experience,
it seems like a lot of times they are like,
for some reason, drawn to go back to locations, and
a lot of times I'll like not know where this
location is, but you know, it's the same story. They
just say they had this urge to get in the
car and drive to this place, and then they have
some sort of other encounter.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
See, I'm kind of curious if that crossroads that he
drew may have been that location, because it never confirmed
or denied it. But I'm kind of curious because then
it kind of goes into the whole idea of like, uh, crap,
what's the name of that movie where the guy makes
like the potato mountain Close Encounters of the Third Kind?
Is that it?

Speaker 1 (43:33):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (43:33):
Yeah, so he had the whole thing where he kept
making the potato mountain in that movie, and then he
was drawn to that mountain end up going to that mountain.
I mean again, that movie was inspired by true cases,
of course, And if.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
I'm not mistaken, wasn't the Project Bluebook Guy like a consultant.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Yep on that movie. That's where the like all the
weirdness gets in with the sounds and the communication through
sound and all that type of stuff is It's like,
all right, maybe they had something going on here and
they knew a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Name, I've got it, like right on the tip of
my tone.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Steven Spielberg was the one that made the movie.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
Yeah, no, the Project Blue Book Guy. Uh jayon heinech.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
Yep, yep. So I don't know, just kind of a
weird connection there. Just again not to relate it to
a movie, but it seems like a lot of the
time they purposely will try to make it so that
you relate these things to a movie, because then it
kind of pulls away from the actual validity of the experience.
It seems self disclosure exactly. I mean, they gotta they
gotta trademark all these little things throughout movies, so when
people see that, they go, oh, like this movie and

(44:29):
then it instantly throws it in the realm of science fiction.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
For most people and not science fact.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
Not science facts. Maybe for us it's science facts, but
not for the others. Hold that thought, we'll be right
back after this brief commercial break, and we are back
to the show. Let's hop right in. A Few nights later,

(44:55):
Carl woke Marjorie and said, I know it was weird.
I am in bed with you. I am out south
of town. They are telling me look for the black box.
He felt that they were telling him that they could
contact him whenever they wanted to. This made Carl quite
distressed and triggered his shoulder pain again, his shoulder pain.
Numerous times on Carl's drive to and from work, he

(45:17):
was followed by lights in the sky that others saw
as well, and both Carl and Marjorie felt that their
phones were tapped.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
More John Kiel connections here.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
Yep, and the whole we will be seeing you things.
So I mean maybe a connection with that too. Whether
it's human or extraterrestrial, I mean, it's still there, you know,
either way. I mean it's almost creepier in another way
if it is human, because then it's like, all right,
we may have done the shit to you. We're gonna
keep an eye on you to make sure you're not
saying too fucking much.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
I mean, we know the government's kind of like tracking
us and keeping an eye on us anyway, but if
they're this blatant about it, I mean, what are you
gonna do at that point?

Speaker 2 (45:49):
That? Yeah, fuck that, that's right, Cleveland, Carl. Sorry, I
had to cough it out. Sorrybody, ugh all right. Carl
claims that he still has telepathic communication with Azo on
rare occasions. For example, Carl once told Azo that Rawlings

(46:10):
needed some rain. The next day, it rained three inches,
then another two inches the following day, before he told
Azo to stop the rain and seized it. So kind
of a weird one there. Higgnant speculated that before shooting
his rifle on the day of the incident, he had
entered some type of force field that slowed his bullet down.
At one point, Carl, along with Don Marilyn and others,

(46:32):
returned to the location of the incident to take pictures
and scan for metal, seeking hopefully to find the missing
lead of the bullet. At that spot where the transparent
box had sat, they noticed that nearby leaves were burnt,
and some trees in the area had strange weathered carvings.
Any comments on that one. I mean, it kind of
sounds like, what was that one that we covered like

(46:52):
when you first started the show, The Devil's tramping round or.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
Something, The Devil's tramping around, Yeah, kind of like the
fairy circle type thing in North.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Yeah, especially with the like weather markings on the trees
and the burnt leaves and stuff. I mean, it seems
like it kind of fits that typical motif. Whether it's
something extraterrestrial or something fae, you still kind of got
the same elements here.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
No, I thought about that when I was reading this section.
I didn't know if I was just making like too
much of a jump there. So I'm glad you said that.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
No, I can't leave any stone on turn in, my friend.
And also speaking of no stone unturned, I wanted to
clarify this because I got confused when I was reading
the book originally that if everybody remembers initially when he
shot this thing, he put the bullet in his pocket,
and now it mentions that they're looking for the lead
of the bullet. And I got a little definition here
just to verify for anybody that may not be familiar.
A bullet is the projectile fired from the gun. While

(47:40):
the lead is the dense soft metal core material found
in most traditional bullets that is designed to deform upon impact.
So essentially, to break this down, if you're not really
catching the picture, when you shoot the bullet, it has
the metal tip and then it has stuff on the inside,
and when it makes impact with something, the bullets still there,
but that stuff in the back comes out of the
back or it blows forward into whatever it is. So

(48:00):
he found the bullet, but the inside of the bullet
was missing, and that's what they're looking for, and they
never were able to find it. Okay, So getting into
the next part, which is why I wanted to verify
that the bullet he put in his pocket was later
examined by investigators led by doctor Walter Walker, a metallary
consultant for the Aerial Phenomenon Research Organization or a pro.

(48:22):
Walker could only conclude that it hits something hard to
turn it inside out. The bullet was also examined by
a metlogist at the University of Wyoming sometime after the
bullet disappeared from the University safe. The typical the typical shit,
because how many cases have we covered where like the

(48:43):
main component has disappeared. Like you have the whole case
with that weird sphere that was down in Florida that
the government said, oh, let us check it out, and
then the sphere like disappeared. I know that there's like
numerous ones. We talked about one semi recently that Kexsburg. Yep,
the Kexburg, That's what it was. That was one that just.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
Supposedly all the government's initial files and reports on the
Kecksburg UFO incident just went missing. And then like this
reporter had to do like a Freedom of Information Act
request and basically like sue the government to try to
get these missing documents. So, yeah, this comes up time
and time again.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
And it's a question of are they taking it because
it's something bizarre that they need to research, or are
they taking it because it's evidence of something that they're doing.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Probably a little bit of both.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
A little bit of both, Yep, that's what I was thinking.
So getting into towards the end the analysis here, the
TV crew from the show in search of visited rawlings,
as did a Japanese film crew. The National Inquirer also
arranged for Karl to take a polygraph test, which he passed.
Marjorie said she was compelled to write Carl's story decades
prior to self publishing the narrative in twenty seventeen under

(49:49):
the title Alien Abduction of the Wyoming Hunter, First Personal
Accounts of Carl Higden, which is the book that I
of course pulled all this information from today.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
So just to stop you real quick, how did you
find out about this book? Did like a guest on
Inquiries tell you about it? Because like, this is not
a story I had ever even heard of.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Actually, I had a guest on the show a really
long time ago. Actually, I think he's been on this
show before. Oh crap, what's his name? Crap?

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (50:19):
I know I have one of the books right here
because he wrote the men of renowned book. Give me
one second, sorry, interesting radio for everybody. I want to
make sure I get this guy a shout out because
he's the one I got this from. One second, Denver Michaels,
that's it, okay. So he had brought up that he
was doing a book about Wyoming and this was one
of a really small section of his book that he

(50:40):
covered in it. So because I found it off of
his book, because I had him as a guest on
the show a really long time ago. I wanted to
come around to be doing this finally. So this this
was originally where I heard this from was a guest
from Inquiries when I first started the show, and he
had like a one page portion of this in one
of his books, which what not A better place to
pull out of is an encounter that nobody's heard of?

Speaker 1 (51:01):
You know. It's kind of funny, how, you know, the
stories that get famous and the stories that don't. Like
we talked about the Cisco Grove encounter recently, we talked
about this one.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
How are both of these not more talked about than
like Betty and Barney Hill or something like these are in.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
Pasca Gula, Like these are no different than Pasca Gula?
Like how is that one? Like this big renowned euphological
you know, case study, But I've never even fucking heard
of this one. You know. So it's just kind of
funny and it makes you wonder, Okay, why do some
stories get a lot of publicity and get a famous

(51:37):
quote unquote, and some of this stuff you've never even
heard of and just get swept under the rug. I
mean kind of makes me wonder if there's almost more
validity to these you've never heard of.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
That's kind of what I was thinking, especially the fact
that this has a very clear drawing idea of what
this creature was, so it has that what people want,
like a like something to visually see, like that's that's
the creature from this encounter. Not to mention the fact that,
again it's just an extremely bizarre encounter. The guy passed
polygraph tests all this type of stuff with this and
also got abducted and then thrown back. Like how bizarre

(52:09):
of a case is that? Like that, I'm kind of
in your boat with this that I feel like a
lot of these cases are probably intentionally pushed under the rug.
And also, I mean maybe some marketing like this one
doesn't have like a like a name, you know, like
the Cisco Grove encounter. It's just the abduction of a
Wyoming Hunter, like an inspiration of.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
The Wyoming Hunter first person account of Carl Higden doesn't
really roll off the tongue.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
That's what I'm saying. Like in the book came out
in like twenty seventeen, so this has been somewhat known
for at least, like you know.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
It's forty or fifty years.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
Yeah, yeah, and then, like I said, the book came
out in twenty seventeen, so I'm surprised that again, why
is there not more with this? I mean, I feel
like it's because there's a lot of good validity.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
Too, just as simple as marketing, for lack of a
better term, like if this had like a super cool name,
if this happened that like the Devil's Armpit or some
shit like that, you know, then you could be like, oh,
it's the Devil's Armpit UFO encounter, you know. I wonder if.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
It's just that simple, they could have called it the encounter.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
But I wonder if it's part of it, they could
have called.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
It the azo one encounter. I mean that that kind
of flows off the tongue. Yeah, but maybe that's what
I'll call the episode. I don't know, I still haven't.
I'm having a hard time placing this one because it's
just the Wyoming Hunter encounter Carl like it, it's so
hard to like paraphrase into like one word.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
Encounter is basically like the best you can come up with,
and that just doesn't sound that exciting.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
Yeah, the Carl higged in azo one encounter, Like I
don't know, man like, maybe it is partially marketing, and
it's just some of these stories just get swept under
the rug because something else more prominent takes over. You know,
drill hands. If you got two drill hand guys and
there's two of them, of course it's gonna take presidents
over a single drill hand guy. That's twice as the
drill has twice the drill hands going on. Man, not

(53:51):
to mention there was a female involved, and you know
how those stories go, Well, that's just way sexier.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Yeah, exactly if there had have been a sexy drill
hand robot lady in this encounter. I mean everybody know
about it.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Yeah, I mean Pascagoula. They got strapped down to a
table and a sexy drill hand lady came out. I mean,
what else could you ask for? Why is there not
a movie for that one? You know?

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Oh, I'm sure there is.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
It's probably really bad, But we should find it and
see if there is a Pascagoula movie, And if there isn't,
then we should start lobbying whatever film company I have
to to make a Pasca.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
Google might not be Pascagoula, but I promise you there's
a sexy robot drill hand lady movie out there somewhere.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
If you know what I'm getting, I know what you're saying.
It's like, uh, Edward, Edward, you know what hands? I
feel like it'd be something along those lines. But anyways,
getting into the missing four one one stuff. In twenty
twenty two, David Plaidi's made one of several documentaries about
people going missing in unusual circumstances. Paladi's conducted new interviews

(54:47):
with Karl and his wife and compared the case of
similarities to other disappearances in the same region. Paladi's noted
the significance of Hickton being dropped at the end of
the incident. This is consistent with hundreds of cases of
unusual desks that he investigated, where the bodies where the
recovered bodies appeared to be have ben dropped from above.
The fact that there was apparently no tracks leading to

(55:08):
the muddy spot where Carl's pickup was recovered suggests that
it was dropped as well. Researchers such as Linda Moulton Howe,
have documented that many cases of an animal mutilation involved
carcasses with broken legs, nose, surrounding tracks and impacted soil,
suggesting that they too were dropped. And also to point
it out, I don't know if you've seen that video,
but there's that really weird surveillance video of the inside

(55:30):
of a barn where this cow just drops through the
fucking ceiling. Have you ever seen that video? And yeah,
oh dude, I'll have to find it and send it
to you. But yeah, there's this video where it's, just
like I said, surveillance video of a fucking cow getting
dropped through the roof of a barn. Like, tell me
how the logic of that makes sense? And then the
people that filmed it claim that they were seeing upright
light above their barn, and then later on they checked

(55:51):
their surveillance footage and found that. So I mean, even
if you're faking that, how do you drop a cow
through the roof of your barn? Like? Yeah, what the hell?

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Well, and just a couple of little things I'll throw
in here. I don't think you specifically talk about this
and the notes and the kind of missing for on
one connections, but in the documentaries, Politics talks a lot
about how you know when these kids go missing in
national parks and whatnot. They'll extensively search these areas, find

(56:22):
no evidence of these kids, nothing, and then you know, whatever,
six months, a year, two years later, some hunter or
hiker or somebody you know, stumbles across like a skull fragment,
or like a pair of sweatpants neatly folded, or a
pair of shoes or something like that.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
How many cases have there been with like the water
and stuff too. They'll search an area, yeah, they'll come
back two days later and there'll be a body in
the water where they know they looked.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
Yeah, so I mean that kind of is more feathers
in the cap of this The stuff has just dropped theory.
You know, if you had this wide spanning search party
looking in these areas, find nothing, and then all of
a sudden, these you know, skull fragments or sweatpants or

(57:08):
whatever end up showing up there, something weird's going on there,
either like you know, a murderers returning to the scene
of the crime, or you know, something far strangers going on.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
I mean, apparently they think that we float like them,
because it made reference a few times the fact that
these things didn't walk, they kind of floated towards him.
So maybe with their logic when they dropped, they they
got that couple inches of impact, so they just boot
They're fine, but.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Not kind of get back to like changes in gravity
and density and things like that.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
I mean, it might even have something to do with
the technology they're using, because I would assume that they
would like they wouldn't float on this planet, but it
made reference to the fact that it floated towards him.
So they either have some type of technology or something
or getting into even weirder aspect of things with abduction,
A lot of people talk about these things literally like
taking their soul or consciousness out of the body. I mean,

(57:55):
maybe some of these experiences with these things, it's not
the physical version of them here. It's like, for lack
of a better term, like a projection or like an avatar,
yes of them here. Maybe that's why they appear to float,
you know.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
And also on the other flip side of it, you know,
if they're just abducting people, sometimes they take this soul
or consciousness, other times they take the full person. Maybe
they kind of have the same thing or they just
kind of toss it back and they don't really put
two cents into like, oh, this is the physical version
and this is the soul version or whatever the hell
it is.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
Yeah, No, that's an interesting thought for sure.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
But this is where it also gets kind of weird.
Carl believed that some kind of medical examination occurred when
the shield or Walt dropped in front of him if
you guys remember that part when they were walking towards
the tower thing, and then he somewhat failed the and
then he somehow failed the test. While Carl initially suspected
that he was rejected due to the effects of the
light on his eyes, he later suggested that it was
due to his vasectomy. And I feel like we've heard

(58:49):
that somewhere else before too, and I can't quite place it.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Well, this gets back to Keel ideas as well. Yeah,
in Mothman Prophecies, he talks about how the phenomenon, whatever
you want to call it, seems to be obsessed with
like human reproduction and if whatever you know, nefarious purposes
these things are abducting people for if it is truly

(59:13):
reliant on genetic material or you know, sperm and eggs
or something like that, it would kind of make sense that, Okay,
they threw this guy back because he wasn't a valid specimen,
you know.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
And I threw this theory a long time ago on
inquiries when we're doing like a UFO roundtable. But then
I later had La Marzouli on the show and he
had even more expansion on the idea. So I know
that at least two people are thinking parallel, so there
must be something to it. What he is usually missing
with a lot of these cows to see if you
can kind of throw it off hand.

Speaker 1 (59:43):
Well, normally it's like their utters or their anus or
things like that, or like eyeballs and tongue.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
And womb too is usually one of the things that
are missing.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Yeah, like reproductive organs for sure.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
And the blood right, So I threw the whole connection that,
you know, if they are abducting people and they are
are trying to produce something, you know, are they using
these cattle wombs as artificial wombs? And I threw that
theory a long time ago, just out in the air.
And like I said, later on, I had La Marzouli
on the show and he's done a lot more into this,
and he basically has found that you apparently can use

(01:00:16):
a cow's womb to synthesize a human's womb because they're
relatively close. And also you can apparently use cow's blood
with that womb to make a synthetic womb, so there's
like a connection with that. So I mean, is it
possible that again the interest is with reproducing whatever it is,
and they abduct the cows and take the blood because
they're actually using him as some type of like synthetic

(01:00:37):
womb because assumably if this thing is hybrid, it's probably
gonna have some of the extraterrestrial features, which usually some
of those features involve, you know, bigger body parts, such
as the bigger head, and if a normal woman was
to you know, have that baby, it would probably kill
and destroy them. So you get into the whole idea
about these babies end up disappearing when you get into

(01:00:58):
the whole weird aspect of you with like babies and stuff,
they disappear before they get to full term. Is the
reason for that because they know that a woman isn't
gonna be able to birth this thing once it gets
to its normal size, so they have to use the
cow wombs.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Yeah, I think that's a great point, and just to
go to like super left field, but something that popped
into my head this idea that you know, these babies
are taken because a human woman couldn't bear them. I've
heard a lot of like nephylum researchers talk about.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
That's la Marzouli because he's a Christian researcher. That's his perspective.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
So yeah, and that gets back to your connection between
nephylom and UFOs and demons and all that kind of stuff.
But anyway that basically to bear these nephylum children, human
women basically had to be hybridized or their genes corrupted
or whatever. So they were big and tall and strong
enough to bear these nephylum children. So another strange connection there.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
And also that being said, I mean, we have our
typical ideas about how big baby human would be, but
these things clearly don't have usually have sexual reproductive organs.
With a lot of the grays and everything they talk
about the fact that they don't. So what is like
the finished state of it, what's like the baby form
of it? There may not be what we would expect
to be a baby form. It might be a matter
of like when they produce these things, they become full

(01:02:17):
size because they're not something that's naturally produced.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Anyways, Yeah, definitely, kesh.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
So maybe even going further into the cowswom idea, you
could probably almost birth like a full sized person inside
of a cow'swomb, you know what I mean. Like that'd
be probably about the size of a full size gray, right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
I mean probably would be more than enough room for gray.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
See. Maybe that's so maybe possible with other connection and
that's why they got to pull them out. What after?
Usually it's like a month or two into like the pregnancy,
that's when the babies usually disappear, if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
Yeah, it seems like it's whatever two three months in.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
It's super duper early, like to the point where they
could probably like surgically remove it without leaving any visible anything.
But they do wind up leaving some visible stuff because
you hear a lot a lot of these cases of
women who have never had kids, as they say, and
then they'll go to get checked out and their womb
looks like it's had like two hundred babies, Like have
you heard of those cases?

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Yeah? And and it seems like in a lot of
these cases, like you're what, excuse me, there's a fruit
fly flying around me? But anyway, uh, like it's very
early on in the pregnancies, and a lot of the victims,
for lack of a better term, like doubt if they
were even pregnant.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
So there's definitely a lot to unpack with like these
phantom pregnancies and uh, just everything of that nature. That
would be a really cool episode or series to do
at some point.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
Yeah, we'll definitely have to. And I'm sure we could
probably find some more cases with possibly people with vysseectomies
being thrown back or later connection with that. But I'm
surprised they threw them back and it just say, all right,
we already took you, so we got to get ready now.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
Yeah, that is kind of interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
I mean, maybe the intention was that he wasn't supposed
to make it once they kicked him out.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
You know, it's possible they were.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
Like, yeah, we'll be seeing you, see you in time,
We'll see you in hell.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
Tight, guys, we gotta pay some bills. And now back
to the show.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
The fact that Karl apparently healed from his lung scarring
and his kidney stones is also significant. Preston Dennett, who's
a former guest, and I believe this show right hasn't
he been on the show.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
I don't think on this show. I don't recall talking
to him.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
Oh he's been on Increase twice. So maybe he's another
person that we could have on the show. So Trey
Hudson pressing Dennett two people we know how to make
sure we get on the show's Compelled has compiled over
three hundred cases involving spontaneous healing connected to UFOs or
entity encounters. Dennick concluded that the beings in these encounters
are advanced extraterrestrials, neither belevolent nor malevolent, healing people for

(01:04:53):
reasons beyond just testing and experimentation. And that gets into
the whole weird idea with people that we kind of
have this idea of like good bad, like everything's inherently
this or that, and we talked about it all the
time on the show that I don't think the universe
works like that. I think a lot of things just
have a purpose and that's it. Like, even to relate
it to our world, everybody sees wasps as evil, like

(01:05:14):
they're nobody likes WASP, let's just admit it. But like
they don't see what they're doing as evil. They don't
see what they're doing as bad, and their purpose in
nature is to kill mosquitoes. That's like their primary that
they do. So it's like everybody hates wasp, but they
get rid of the more annoying creature. But again, they're
not inherently good or bad. They're just doing their job.
So why is it that, you know, we have to
put that connotation that we simply have on humans onto

(01:05:35):
everything else because nothing else in nature perceives itself as
good or bad. It's just that's that's strictly a human concept.

Speaker 1 (01:05:42):
Well, and to bring it back around to Kiel, since
that's my theme of this episode. You know, even with Mothman,
everybody's like, oh, was it a harbinger of doom or
was it trying to warn people? What if this thing
is just hanging out, you know, it doesn't have to
be some deeper meaning in everything. And I think these
kind of you know, heady out their concepts. We kind

(01:06:03):
of get stuck in the weeds sometimes of oh, well,
this has to all mean something, and like you said,
some things could just be you know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
You have to put human contacts on everything. Like even
while I was talking about with categories, of things, Like
we make these specific categories of things and act like
this is the set category, and it's like, I don't
think it works like that either. We're just we're trying
to make sense of things simply like that's that's the
hull human concept, is that we try to make sense
of the world around us. So we put all these
human concepts on things that don't play by the same rules.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
Well, I think, especially when it's something you know, weird
and out of the ordinary, we're gonna look for a
weird and out of the ordinary and spectacular explanation for
one way or the other. And it's not you know,
sexy and exciting to be like, hey, maybe this like
fucking weird moth thing was just hanging out.

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
Yeah. And I mean even for the UFO stuff, I mean,
it's not nearly as exciting to think that they might
just be simply doing the same thing that we do
to nature, just documenting it and studying it for the
sake of studying it. You know, like nobody wants to
hear that they're you know, the experiment or the research project.
Like of course that sounds bad. You know. We had
this whole connotation of like, oh, they're trying to steal
our DNA or do this or do that or blah

(01:07:12):
blah blah. But it might simply be exactly how we
interact with nature. You see it hurt animal and nature.
If you have the ability to bring it back and
fix it and kick it back out, you do that.
I mean it seems like the same with a lot
of these things. It's like even on the flip side
of that, I mean it sounds kind of messed up,
but you find a beautiful am on the woods, people
end up taking it sometimes and they put it in
their version of a zoo. I mean that could be
also what's happening with these things, Like they might not

(01:07:33):
see us on the same level as them, If they
see us as significantly less advanced than them, then where's
that line at of like what like I said, like
an ants, like if we take any animal or anything like that,
people don't think twice about it, Like why can't we
kind of view that in this context?

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
Well? And even in this very story it talks about
how you know, they've just been coming here to basically
like harvest food for their food pill, Like that's all
there is too? What if they're not you know, intervening
in human history and guiding us as a species. It's
just like, hey man, we fucked up our waters. We
just need some food bills.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
And I mean that kind of gets into the whole
idea about Earth possibly being like a seed planet. That
it's like, you have all these different extraterrestrials that are
coming here, clearly because you get all these different renditions,
but it seems like a lot of them are doing
the same thing. Maybe the whole thing is the reason
why we don't encounter stuff. We're not seeing all this
crazy stuff is because we're in some distant corner of
the galaxy and we're just the bank in case anybody

(01:08:30):
needs it, which could also be why they have such
an interest in nuclear because they're like, all right, you
guys aren't gonna fuck up our bank. Like if you
guys fuck up this planet, we're all fucked.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
But wouldn't that be Like the most ironic thing ever
is if you know all these crazy, big concepts, it
just comes down to something super duper mundane. But it
just seems like it would be par for the course.
Like if there ever was a solution or an answer,
that's probably what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
What do, they say. The simplest answer is usually the
correct comes raising. There was a disappearance in the same
forest that Carl was abducted from almost exactly thirty five
years later. Mark Anthony Strumatter had fifteen years experience hunting
in the region at the time he disappeared in October nineteenth,
twenty nineteen. Similar to Higden, the spot Mark disappeared from

(01:09:18):
happened to be an area he'd never hunted in before. Interestingly,
at the conclusion of the previous hunt. Of the previous hunt,
Mark saw a black ufo that followed him for a time.
Like Higden and many other missing persons, Mark was of
German ethnicity, but never had a vasectomy. Ufologist Jack Valet
has noticed has noted that many historical encounters with fairies, elves,

(01:09:39):
and other mythical creatures involved the experience are being offered
some type of food. In several such cases, people who
coroborated with the fairy folk are rewarded with an inexhaustible
food supply. At the same time, Irish tradition holds that
if you take food from the fairy world, you become
a fairy yourself and never returned to the mortal realm.
There are many other UFO related anti encounters on record

(01:10:02):
that involved the beings floating over the ground or otherwise
floating above in a very unusual way. For example, the
creatures that emerged from the craft of Pascagoula. As we
mentioned earlier, Pascogula and Mississippi floated out of the craft,
and the so called goblins aka the hopskin bill Goblins
hovered over the ground by swaying their hips back and forth.
Another unusual detail is the fact that Azo measured the

(01:10:25):
distance from this planet to Earth in light miles rather
than light years. I don't know if you caught that earlier,
but that's why I was trying to see if you touch.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
That and link until I got to this point in
the note.

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
Many UFO abduction experiences contain absurd elements like this. For example,
the Italian abductee Pereire Ferrento fens Ferreta claimed the Giant
Guild Aliens told them that they came from the Third Galaxy,
an extremely simplistic and astrologically meaningless description, but I mean
going into that. Of course, it may sound shoppy to us,

(01:10:56):
but it might make sense from a different perspective. Because
you know, not everybody viewing the universe or anything from
the earthly perspective. So just because we use the terminology
doesn't mean the rest of the everything else uses that
same terminology.

Speaker 1 (01:11:09):
Yeah, And if I'm not mistaken, this is kind of
like another hallmark of the Men in Black encounters. Is
these kind of like really off the wall weird details.
And also there's something there with the h either asking
for food or offering food. I feel like there's some
Men in Black connection there too. I don't quite have

(01:11:30):
it on the tip of my tongue, but there's something
there to unpack.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
Well. I almost feel like when he got the food pills,
that may have been where something kicked in where he
started experiencing like this memory loss and stuff, especially because
he felt like it was like forced in even though
he wasn't really necessarily wanting to take it. Like, I
feel like there may have been like even going into
like the human aspect of things. I mean, we talk
about this whole thing that we think that the manipulation

(01:11:54):
kind of starts after they kick in with some type
of like psychedelic or some type of chemical that they've produced,
And I mean this could be exact link to that,
I mean different variations, because we were talking about a
Cisco grove that was what nineteen seventy one, right, yeah,
nineteen seventy one, and that has same general time period yep,
and that had the mist that kind of had that effect.
So maybe again another predecessor to that, trying to make

(01:12:17):
it a little bit better, where clearly the mist didn't
work that great because they tried it out on another
guy and he kept fucking waking up in the tree.
So they're like, all right, we need to find some
way that they can just eat this directly. We got
a roofy this. Yeah, we got a roofy this motherfucker.
So if you tell him that it's a food pill,
maybe he'll eat it. We'll try that one out, or
maybe even a different drug altogether they were testing out
because again I don't know which way to go with

(01:12:38):
this one. It seems like it has some of the
human elements, but it also has some of the extraterrestrial
elements to it, because I mean even the glass cube
room thing that he was being moved around in. They
say technologies at least thirty years you know, ahead of
where it actually is. So if you look at the
early two thousands, they definitely had those like art museums
and things where it was like a room where you know,
everything moves and shifts and everything. Could this have been that,

(01:13:01):
I mean, could the whole intention of that could have
been military grade. And the reason why, like most things,
it's in museums now is because it kind of fulfilled
its purpose for them.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
Yeah, that's definitely possible.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
So he may not have even moved anywhere. He may
have just been in a simple, like white room with
stuff moving around on the outside walls, you know. Yeah,
But reading Hickton's account, it is easy to infer that
he was meant to be taken away forever, but was
unexpectedly rejected. It may be that some people who have
gone missing under unusual circumstances were abducted in a similar
manner and simply not returned again. In other words, the

(01:13:35):
kinds of missing person cases investigated by David Plaid's may
be due in part to some of the same phenomenon
responsible for many UFO abduction experiences and other anomalist entity encounters.
Whatever reason his abductor had for rejecting Carl, it may
very well have saved his life. All right, guys, this
is our last break, so hold on tight.

Speaker 1 (01:14:07):
And now back to the show.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
And that's all that I have for you guys on
this one. So Arren, what are your closing thoughts on
this one?

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
Well, first off, thank you for putting this one together.
You've been kind of teasing this one for a while
with me, and I was not prepared for how many
connections and whatnot there was going to be. When I
was reading through the notes, I was super excited to
do this one.

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
So the book ones I want to make sure I
do just because these book ones are, like you mentioned,
some of the obscure cases that nobody's really covered, so
I want to make sure I try to do them
just if we're one of the only people that cover it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
So so yeah, first off, thank you for putting this
one together. Super interesting. This might be my favorite episode
you've ever put together.

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
And if you wanted to read the book, by the way,
it is available on Amazon for about five dollars. Because
it's a very thin book you could.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
Read it definitely worth five dollars. But yeah, kind of
my take home point on this one is, like we've said,
and the fact that some encounters get so big and
so famous and others don't. Kind of makes you wonder.
It kind of lends more credence to me that this

(01:15:13):
could be true because we've never heard of this encounter.

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
I don't think I've heard any other show even like
slightly mentioned this one. I'm pretty sure the only reference
I've heard of this one was from Denver Michael's talking
about it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:25):
Yeah, and you know, we talked about your kind of
human continued experiment theory a lot. I don't get a
lot of human vibes in this one, honestly, Like there's
just so many weird off the wall things in this
one that connect to Keel and the Men in Black,
And you know this is not that long after the
whole mofman things, So I mean that's kind of where

(01:15:47):
I go with it. Like the Men in Black aspects
just keep like beating me over the head with this one.
And that's kind of my big takeaway from this is
whatever the whole injured Cole thing is. I wonder if
this guy met some of those entities as well.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
I mean I almost wonder if ingrid Cold could be
the same species as this thing, because they other than
the ears and stuff like that, they just seem a
lot more humanoid than a lot of the other things
that people encounter, or a lot more human like. I
don't want to say humanoid because you know, but human like.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
Yeah. So, I mean again, this has a lot of
connections to Pascagoula as well. But yeah, super cool episode.
So what's kind of your takeaway? Where do you land
on this one?

Speaker 2 (01:16:29):
See this one? Like I was saying, it's kind of
a hard direction to go in because it has some
of these human elements, but it also has some of
these very extraterrestrial elements.

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
But and some just weird off the wall thing.

Speaker 2 (01:16:39):
Yeah, they might possibly be somewhat combined. I mean, you
get into the whole theory about you know, humans working
with these things. Maybe that could be it. Or flipping
the way you were kind of saying about certain cases
becoming a little bit more popular than others. Maybe the
reason why this one didn't become popular was because this
guy simply may have said the truth as yeah, we
just come here to get food and stuff and then
we leave. Like, you know, maybe it didn't become popular

(01:17:01):
because it had too much truth in it. You know,
maybe this is the truth of the extraterrestrials is you know,
the human tries. Humans try to make this whole agenda. Yeah,
the humans trying to make this whole facade of all
this crazy shit going on and this and that. I
think that might be the humans, and these simple encounters
are probably the extraterrestrials.

Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
Yeah, like I said, and I think this is where
I'll leave it. But uh, wouldn't it be the most
ironic thing ever if we're looking for all these big, weighty, heavy,
heady topics and you know, at the end of the day,
it's just something as simple as they're just harvesting food pills.

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
I mean, even on a flip side of that, you
want to get into the Onanaki thing. What do they
come here for? We fucked up our planet with radiation,
so we need gold. So we're just gonna take that
and we're gonna leave. So this is a motif that
you see with other extraterrestrials. They just come to get
something and then they're out.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
You heard it here. First, Aliens are colonizers.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
Only partial colonizers, because they they colonize off planet because
we're too fucking crazy for them. We're there afraid, we're
gonna blow each other up. They don't want to be
involved in that unless they're hiding under the surface, which
that's a whole theory, or under the water. I mean,
we're not a better place to put a colony than
under the water where the humans won't bother you with
their nuclear weapons until we start making nuclear subs and
now they've got to move to their bases.

Speaker 1 (01:18:11):
That might have to be your next deep dive that
you do for Shane.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
Yeah, I mean, I definitely could do some underwater based stuff.
I feel like that's kind of become popular with a
lot of the uf UFO stuff recently, like what's coming
out with the government documents and everything, because I feel
like there's been.

Speaker 1 (01:18:25):
What so that probably means it's bullshit, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
Probably, or again, maybe there's something to it, because you
gotta muddy the water's enough where you know, it's the
whole idea of true or lie, truth lie. You know
you got you gotta throw out a bunch of lies,
but you gotta throw out some truths in there, because
then the truths get grouped in with the lies and
if anything that they've.

Speaker 1 (01:18:41):
Thrown out can compliment sandwich.

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
Exactly, And like if they've thrown out one thing that
doesn't sound ridiculous in the past like five years with
all this extraterrestrial stuff, tell me, the one not crazy
sounding thing is underwater basis. Because they've given us those
shitty bodies from Mexico, they give us all this other shit.
They said, UFOs, here's a bunch of videos it, here's
all this underwater bases, and they going back on to
other UFO stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
So I feel like, how many times have we heard, oh,
we know more about space than we do the bottom
of the ocean, So yeah, maybe you're onto something.

Speaker 2 (01:19:09):
There and talking about some more cases they get pushed
under the rug. Do you remember that thing in Miami
with the mall like a year ago? What happened with that?
We never heard anything else about that. It got pushed
out of the feed. All the video surveillance footage is gone,
Like nobody's dude, that whole mall was covered in cameras.
There's no videos that came out about that.

Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
No, there's nothing to see here.

Speaker 2 (01:19:28):
Even the Las Vegas one where those cops supposedly went
in the back seat or the backyard after seeing something
crash and you could kind of see something moving and
tucking behind shit. That's another one. Boo. You don't even
hear it talked about in the UFO community.

Speaker 1 (01:19:39):
Well, hey, we've moved on to all sorts of other
craziness since then. But anyway, before we get too off
the rails here at the end of Shane, if anyone
wants to get up with us for any reason whatsoever,
tell them how they can do that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
We have a handful of convenient ways that you guys
can do so. First and foremost, you guys can get
ahold of us through our email, which is Bizarre Encounters
at outlook dot com. You guys get ahold of us
through social media Instagram and Facebook are the two that
we're the most active on. Or you guys can also
get ahold of us through our submission forum, which is
up at the top of our link tree and goes
directly to our email. And the last way you guys
can get ahold of us, and you guys could also

(01:20:12):
call in to be part of our Halloween special. You
guys could call the Bizarre Reality Media Hotline and that
number is three one, three, three six four one five
five to one. And if you happen to miss that
number or any of our other contact information. It is
available down in the show description.

Speaker 1 (01:20:27):
And you guys be sure to show some love to
our friends and sponsors of the show. We got our
buddies Rick and Hans with Io Squatch for all your
squatchy gear needs. We've got our buddy Dave aka the
Snarly Yao with Snarly Yaw Natural Products. And we've got
our buddy Joe with Cryptotology for all your weallable quip.

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
And if you've got some free time, don't forget to
check out our other friends with some affiliate links, Dimension
Devices and Stickamule with some additional discounts and credits available
for you guys, and more information on that is available
down in the show description.

Speaker 1 (01:21:04):
And as always, all this shit we've mentioned is in
the link tree and the show description.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
And just like we always have to remind you guys,
and I brought back the shirt because it's an oldie
but a goodie. Always always to remember to stay bizarre, bizarre,
bizarre

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
Aliens or colonizers fucking take a check

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