September 2, 2025 • 44 mins
Ever wondered how some martial arts schools command $400+ monthly tuition while others struggle to break $150? Master Bronson Ko has cracked the code, building what he calls "the Apple of martial arts studios" – premium facilities with prices to match and waiting lists of eager families.
Perhaps most compelling is Master Ko's insight that higher prices create deeper commitment. "When you pay more for something, you actually become more committed to it," he notes. Parents who invest substantially ensure their children attend consistently, leading to better results, which justifies the premium pricing. It's a virtuous cycle that benefits everyone: students receive transformative training, parents see tangible results, instructors earn better compensation, and the school thrives financially.
🎙️ Podcast Show Notes: “Meeting the Master: Bronson Ko Joins ASA Summit 2025”
His presence, insight, and energy are next-level, and we’re thrilled to announce that he’ll be joining us as a featured speaker at the ASA Summit 2025, happening October 3–4 in Las Vegas! 🇺🇸🥋
🎟️ Don’t miss your chance to be part of it—register now at www.ASAmartialarts.com and lock in your spot for the most electrifying martial arts business summit of the year.
Let’s go! 💥
Block Insurance – Providing specialized coverage for martial arts studios nationwide, with over 30 years of expertise in protecting what matters most.
Dynamics World – A one‑stop martial arts supplier offering uniforms, belts, gear, mats, and custom designs, delivering great products, great prices, and great service to martial arts school owners.
https://store.dynamicsworld.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In this week's episode, we'll discuss the topic
the secret behind the highesttuition in America.
Welcome to Black Belt Banter,the best podcast to help your
martial arts school increase inprofits and generate substantial
revenue.
I'm Jimmy Hong and my co-hostis Master Chan Lee.
(00:21):
We are joined by Master BronsonKo, a second-generation martial
artist turned visionaryentrepreneur.
He opened his first Taekwondoschool at just 23 and now leads
three premium locations,including two custom-built
state-of-the-art facilitieswhich he owns.
One spans 8,000 square feet andthe other 5,000 square feet,
(00:46):
with programs ranging from $200to $400 per month and a team of
35 plus employees.
Master Ko's mission is bold tobuild the apple of martial arts
studios.
He is focused on scaling hisbrand, developing leaders and
delivering a world-classexperience that redefines
(01:06):
excellence in our industry.
Master Lee, master Ko, welcometo the show.
Very excited to have both ofyou on the podcast today.
Let's dive right in.
400 a month for martial artsclasses that's crazy impressive.
What makes that price pointwork, masako?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Well, my first response to that is that's what
we all should be doing, becausethat's how much I believe in the
power of martial arts,especially with kids, with youth
.
And also this is based on whatI've experienced, since I've
been doing this since I wasthree.
But our rates actually willstart lower.
(01:53):
So we start at around $230 to$250 a month, and then we have
different programs after that.
So, for example, black BeltClub is $400.
And then we kind ofincrementally go up from there.
So it's about 30 more for thenext program.
And then our mentorship programis for our students who have
(02:14):
aspirations of becominginstructors with us, and that'll
be around 430.
My goal is our last program,which is our leadership program,
is going to be 500.
So we're kind of working onthat right now.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
So obviously I tell people, no one pays $100 a month
just to learn how to kick andpunch.
But if you go something beyondthat, that there's a vision and
there's something that goesbeyond the kicking and punching
and so forth, and it sounds likeyou've built a culture of
people that go, I'm not justlearning how to kick and punch,
(02:48):
I'm learning how to become abetter human being.
So what are elements in yourprogram?
Do you kind of like emphasizeBecause you already you kind of
said leadership a little bit,mentorship, things like that
what are some of the uniquethings that you are offering
with your students?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Well, you hit it on the head.
Leadership is a huge passion ofmine and that's something that
we really focus on.
First, helping our studentslearn how to lead themselves.
I mean, it's just the basic,simple, positive habits
instilled in their lifeIncreasing discipline, learning
how to care for themselves, maketheir bed, all those different
(03:25):
things.
And then the second is learninghow to lead other people.
I I think we achieve thispretty well just by how we teach
.
I've always kind of had a knackfor teaching, even since when I
first started.
Actually, when I first started,it was pretty rough, but then I
started learning what was themore effective way of teaching,
(03:47):
and it wasn't necessarily basedon how I was taught which you
probably can relate to thiswhich was the um, do what I say,
or do knuckle pushups, or I'mgoing to take a stick and hit
your legs.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
We call that the memory stick.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Actually my, my father, the memory stick, uh, my
father, the memory stick.
My father was on a podcast.
You can watch that.
He shares all of thoseexperiences.
But it just doesn't work today,like that method doesn't work,
and you're going to have anempty school.
So I kind of coined the way weteach by calling that the mentor
method.
So we use a lot of intrinsicmotivation.
(04:22):
We use a lot ofconversation-based teaching,
less of the fear-based.
I think a little bit of fear isnecessary and healthy because
that instills respect, but thatshouldn't be the only motivation
.
So the leadership aspect isingrained in all of our programs
and one of the big things thatwe're always trying to focus on
(04:44):
is helping these students learnhow to clearly communicate
effectively with their verbalcommunication, because they're
really good using their thumbson their phone right or typing
on a computer.
But if you just talk to a randomchild today, it's hard for them
to look at you in the eyes andactually speak clearly and loud
(05:07):
enough.
It's crazy.
So that is, I think, where alot of our parents see the value
is that we really focus on that, because they see that that's
going to help their child gainan edge over their peers and the
competition.
The other is just the culturethat we're trying to really
build here with the old schoolprinciples, I think, with a lot
(05:31):
of the things come that havecome out, you know, whether it
be ufc and mma and all theseother things, and even sport
taco no right was sparring andwearing these giant baggy
uniforms, and there's no morekind of the tradition.
We are keeping that and I thinkpeople are now starting to
realize how valuable that is andthrough that culture is how
(05:53):
they naturally become betterleaders.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
That is quite remarkable, and I think you've
kind of made that formula andflipped it on its head.
I mean, it's one of thosethings where I remember, early
in my career, I said well, look,I'm gonna have to teach
different stuff.
I'm gonna teach Hapkido, I'mgonna teach weapons, I'm gonna
teach nunchucks, I'm gonna teachblow darts, ninja, throwing
(06:18):
stars, I'll learn how to scale awall and I'll do jujitsu and,
for good measure, we'll dogymnastics right.
So you go, I'm going to add allthese value added programs and
and, and maybe in the morningwe'll do yoga and we'll add all
these value added programs andthat will that will provide
tremendous value.
And when I first talked to you,you were like so I was like what
(06:39):
else do you teach?
Do you teach jujitsu?
Do you teach whatever?
And you're like, no, justtaekwondo.
And I was like what?
You don't teach any othermartial arts?
No, just strictly taekwondo.
And it was refreshing and andand then I really kind of you
know, like you just told us, itwas just a dive deeper that what
makes martial arts special isthe character, development
(07:02):
aspects, and you have kind ofhit that in the head.
And if people are listening tothis, I want them to understand.
Like you didn't go well here,let me make a new business
system where I can upgradepeople and and they will pay me,
because that's you know.
I just have it on a piece ofpaper.
It says $400 a month.
You are providing a tremendousamount of value where parents
(07:25):
don't even blink twice aboutdoing it, and so and so well,
can I just say at this point inmy, when I was younger, it was
all about budget.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I was on a cause.
I wasn't making a lot of moneywhen I was younger, so it was
all about budget, whatever price.
But now, at this point in mylife, with kids, with my wife,
with family, I question anythingthat's cheap.
If it's cheap, I'm like is thisproduct any good?
I'm already thinking, and stillthis is not a great product.
(08:00):
I don't think I even want it.
But when there's somethingexpensive, like Apple phones or
computers or Macs or whatever,to other programs and products
that are higher priced thanother competitors, I
automatically assume oh wait aminute, this company must be
better, without even knowingabout the company.
I just assume that becausethrough 50 years of being on
(08:23):
this earth I have learnedcheaper is better, not every
time, but more often than not isnot better than the quality
stuff that I could buy moreexpensive now and that I could
use better use for and have alonger shelf life.
And from kids' activities tosports to whatever the cheaper
(08:43):
brand I don't even want to beassociated with because I know
programs that offer highesttuition.
They really focus on thequality of their product and
their teaching.
So to that, masterco.
I mean, I definitely understandthe mindset and you're
absolutely right.
Us as an industry needs tocreate that kind of value.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yes, you hit it right in the head.
There's two things you said.
First was that automaticreaction to perception of value
when you hear the price is low.
We are all like that.
That's just the way it is.
That's just the human condition.
We all think like this.
And then the second thing yousaid was you don't want to be
(09:25):
associated with a cheap brand.
That in itself is what I thinkall martial arts school owners
really need to pay attention to.
And this goes into the nextthing I haven't mentioned with
charging higher rates is you gotto pay attention to the details
, because all those littledetails all add up to perception
(09:48):
of value and, most importantly,it's going to cause your
customer to say, oh, that's me,I want to aspire to be like that
, or that is not me.
So, for example, if you go intoan average martial arts studio,
you tend to see some clutter,you tend to smell some stinky
(10:11):
feet, like the mats haven't beenscrubbed in weeks, right?
All those little things allplay into that perception of
value.
And, most importantly, do Iwant to identify with this brand
?
Is this who I want to be?
If not, then not only are theynot going to pay the high rate,
they're also going to be walkingout the door, absolutely,
(10:31):
absolutely.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
So can you give me a little bit of?
Because I saw your first school.
I remember way back when I waslike that's a really beautiful
school.
And then your second one, evenbetter.
Where do you, where do you pullyour inspiration?
And you own all the buildingsthat you're in.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
So we own two.
We just opened our third one injanuary, and that is a got it,
got it, got it did you hire itto your designer or did you
design it yourself?
last one.
I did the last one, I did thefirst one.
I kind of worked alongside withthe architect.
So when you're building right,you have the architect, who kind
(11:10):
of more is focused on theimportant aspects of the
structure right, making surenobody dies, but then on top of
that maybe you'll have adesigner who makes it look good.
So then I kind of played thatrole as a designer for the first
two buildings and then last one.
I wanted to get somebody elsewho really knew what they were
doing and pick their brain.
(11:31):
But I always have a lot of sayin this because I know what I
want.
This is something that I'vealways had a knack for, even
when I was younger.
I could just see things that Ithink look good.
My mother is a graph designer.
I do.
I've created our logo, I do alot of our graph design.
That's something that I'vealways had a passion for.
(11:53):
I just I hate to say it,hopefully it doesn't come across
as arrogant I just know itlooks good.
So that's kind of where theinspiration comes from oh no, I
know exactly what you mean.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
my wife is a professional interior designer
and and she could see an emptyroom and then visualize how that
room needs to be, or or a floorplan to a house, and know,
without even just know in ourhead, that, oh, the the best
conducive floor plan to today'smodern family living needs to be
(12:25):
this way, that way, I look atan empty room and and you,
unless you show me in a 3D likeAutoCAD graphic model, I
wouldn't have a clue of whatyou're talking about.
But creatives and artists anddesigners like yourself and my
wife I mean I understandfirsthand experience oh, we
should do this, this this way,to a point where I don't even, I
(12:47):
can't even try to grasp to seeit until after it's done.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
So that's absolutely true, and I think I see it.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I was going to say your price point, like when you
say that's what you charge, itmatches.
You know what I mean.
You don't look at it and goyeah, I bet it's like $50 a
month.
Did it break $100?
That doesn't come into your,you walk in and you, you see it
and you go yeah, this is gonna,it's gonna cost us, right?
It's like walking into amercedes dealership as opposed
(13:18):
to going to, uh, you know,hyundai or something like that,
or I mean have you guys beencoming up, coming up hyundai.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
You can't say hyundai anymore okay, I'm sorry, like
tesla.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Oh wait, you guys both drive teslas, sorry no, no,
no, come on tesla's.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Tesla's not bad, but we don't need to get quality the
car have you been into a riviandealers?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I had a rivian I had a rivian for over a year, yeah
that's.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
That's that's crazy.
They get it, they do get it,yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, but I think it's important to add also why I
pursue the higher rates.
I just want to clarify what'smost important to me, which is I
want to see a positive changein the child.
I'm not in this business justto make money.
I'm not in this business to tryto take as much money as I can
(14:15):
from the parent.
I'm not in that for this.
There's other ways to make moremoney, right?
So, in order for you toactually get a permanent change
in the child, what do you needfrom the parent?
Commitment, fully committed.
If they're just here just foran activity or they're just
coming month to month orwhatever, or, more importantly,
(14:37):
if they just see this likePlanet Fitness, where it's like
$10 a month and they can justcancel whenever they want
because it doesn't hurt, thenwe're not going to get that long
lasting, permanent change.
So what happens?
When you pay more for something, you actually become more
committed to it.
Again, if you're paying $10 amonth for Planet Fitness, you'll
miss.
If you're paying $500 a monthfor some luxury gym, I bet
(15:01):
you're going to be making alittle bit more.
You're not missing, becauseevery time you miss that's going
to be hurting your pocket.
So that's the overarchingstrategy goal that I have is I
want the parents to be committed, and the only way that we can
have universal commitment iswith your wallet.
You can say everything you want.
You can do anything you want.
(15:23):
You can say just say it.
But most important is when youput your hard-earned money on
the table.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
That's when you show that you're committed is when
you put your hard-earned moneyon the table.
That's when you show thatyou're committed.
So, master Co, I just have aquestion, because I've known you
for a while Like I think we'veknown each other close to 20
years now.
I've seen this growth in youbecause 20 years ago you were
just another school owner.
You're like your average schoolowner 150 bucks a month, 140
bucks a month.
What happened?
What happened in the last 20years?
(15:50):
What was the genesis of youknow what?
I'm going to charge more.
I'm going to create more changeBecause I think you and I have
been to a lot of our industrymeetings.
That's where we usually met andwe'd go and we're like same old
stuff, we'd listen to it andwhatever.
And I think where you and I arealigned is it's not about the
(16:12):
business systems, it's aboutcreating the real value on the
mat and and you've done that inspades to an incredible level.
So just kind of get me throughthat journey what?
What was the shift?
Cause I'm sure there's a lot ofpeople on this podcast.
They can't even fathom likegetting over 200 bucks or 250 or
300.
(16:32):
You're not at this amount of400 because you can put it on a
piece of paper and charge it.
But if you don't believe inthat dollar amount, you're not
going to get it.
So how did you get into thisextraordinary amount of
confidence within yourself tosay, hey, this is what I'm going
to charge, this is what I feelI'm worth, and if that I bet
(16:55):
you're in your mind you're like,no, I'm undercharging, even at
400 bucks.
I bet that's what you feel alittle bit.
Tell me that psychology andphilosophy that you got into
that point.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
First and foremost, it's the habit of reading, just
reading business books as manyas possible.
I've read so many.
I mean, if you look on my wallI've got tons it's just always
having that sponge for a mind,always searching for there's got
to be a better way, there's gotto be a better way.
(17:25):
And then, most importantly, howdo I serve my students in a
better way?
How can we get more results?
How do we make this better?
And then also just visitingbusinesses or even studios.
I used to go and visit studiosall the time and just finding
(17:48):
little things from a differentperspective, outside of the
typical kind of Taekwondo dojangperspective which was instilled
into me from my father, whichis hard to get rid of, right,
and I remember I used to ask himlike you should charge more?
He'd go oh no, they're notgoing to pay, that they won't
(18:10):
pay, that they're going to quit,and having to kind of remove
that stigma by looking outsideof the industry.
But, most importantly, havingthis pursuit of I want to charge
, or this idea I want to charge$500 a month, how can I make it
worth it to the parent?
(18:30):
And then, starting from there,what do they want?
What are they looking for,because when the pain is great
enough, then the amount nowbecomes irrelevant.
If you have, you know, heavenforbid.
Let's say there's somethingwrong with your child, you have
to take them to the hospital.
You'll pay whatever, doesn'tmatter.
(18:50):
Now, that's an extreme example.
But then it's getting to knowyour child.
You have to take them to thehospital, you'll pay whatever,
it doesn't matter.
Now, that's an extreme example.
But then it's getting to knowyour students, your parents, and
then being the best option and,most importantly, following
through with delivering thatsolution to the parent.
But this is not an easy process.
This is where people think thatit's easy.
It's not easy and there's noshortcuts.
(19:12):
You've got to train yourself,you've got to really know your
stuff.
And the big thing for us is howdo you know that you can teach
well?
Just because that you're afifth on that doesn't matter.
You could be a white belt inteaching.
So first is are you good atteaching or is are your
(19:32):
instructors good at teaching?
Cause that's our product, right?
Second, curriculum I've beenworking on our curriculum for 20
years and we do teach a littlebit of jujitsu, a little boxing
now, just cause I want practicalself-defense.
But that's 20%.
80% of us poomsae, like weliterally just focus on poomsae,
which a lot of people think iscrazy because they think it's so
boring.
(19:52):
We don't do any competition,none of that stuff.
But to answer your question, alot of reading, a lot of looking
outside of my own little studio.
I used to hear Bill.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Clark.
Yeah, Master Clark.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Back in the day he had I don't know 30 or 40
locations, I used to think, wow,how does that even happen?
Or some of these people saying,oh, we charged $300 a month.
It was like mind blown.
And now I look back and I thinkthat's how they do it and I
think I can do a little bitbetter.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
So for people listening on the podcast, are
there any books like here arethe three surefire books that
you should get started?
Because we have people that arecoming to our ASSA summit that
you know they're on the verge.
Probably in the next six toeight months they're going to
close or they're thinking abouta career change and, as we have
(20:45):
friends that are also doingsuper well, what would you say
to them?
Say, here, here are the, hereare the three books, or
something that is going to getme started on my journey?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
If you're going to advise Master Chan Lee, you
could only give him one bookrecommendation, because he's not
going to get past the one tothree.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
My strategy is what book did you read?
Then I go okay, what was themain point of that book?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
or you just go to chat gpt and say tell me the
five bullet points right,exactly, exactly he would, he
would, he would call me and sayhey, what was that book about?
Speaker 1 (21:25):
okay, and then he would use that as his way of
reading the book.
I got, got books back here.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Honestly, there's so many I mean the one you're
always going to hear for newbusiness entrepreneurs, the
first one is.
E-myth.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Michael Gerber.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Right, it's all about working on your business and
not in it.
The second one oh my goodness,this is hard for me.
I would say that really standsout.
This is not even really aboutbusiness, it's more about
personal development.
It's called the power of habit.
This one changed me big time andit just goes through like how
(22:06):
do you create habits?
Because, think about it,discipline is a myth.
You only have habits, you onlyhave routines.
So if you can instill, forexample, reading, because I
listen to books, I don't readthem.
I listen to them when I'mdriving, every single day.
I don't listen to music.
Think about if you compoundthat over years, you're going to
(22:27):
become a different person, Iwould say.
Lastly, if you really want totake your business to a
different level and and reallytry to be different, there's a
book that came out recentlycalled unreasonable hospitality.
That one was really good,really good.
It was written by a guy who rana three-star Michelin
(22:49):
restaurant and he talks aboutall these little things that
they do to charge $100 for anappetizer.
I mean, people aren't walkingout without spending at least
$1,000 for a meal there.
So those are the three.
If anybody wants to reach out,I can give you more?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
That's a great start.
I think that's one of the like.
When we get to a SA or thesemeetings, that's one of the
things that everybody goes.
What are you more?
That's a great start.
I think that's one of the like.
When we get to a saw or thesemeetings, that's one of the
things that everybody goes whatare you reading, what's the
latest thing you're up to?
And and everybody's just likewriting down book
recommendations.
And I don't know if this works,but it's the Star Trek manual
to Kirk Fu, so I don't know.
It's changed my life so, butanyway, Well, I haven't.
(23:29):
Oh, okay, I mean you know StarTrek's a major franchise, so now
you have a little insight intomy brain.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
So just to kind of re I hope no one's making fun of
Star Trek, because that'sliterally my favorite show.
I'm just saying, pastor Chan.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I'm just saying but you know what, you know some of
the parents.
So just to tell you, like whenyou make a Star Trek reference
or a Star Wars reference andthey go, yes, sir, and I'm like,
oh okay, these are the type ofpeople that are training with us
and I'm one of them, and HarryPotter too, that's another.
It's those people that get intothose genres and so forth.
It is definitely a cult.
(24:12):
It is definitely a cult.
So I'm assuming, if you, ifwe're going over programs, you
have your basic program right At200, some dollars, $259 or $249
.
And then on your two years,when do you go into an upgrade?
Do you do that within a year ortwo years to have them abject
some change?
I'm sure you have a staffmeeting and you talk to your
staff and saying, okay, who'sstepped up to the plate a little
(24:35):
bit here in terms of doing that, because I tell my staff it
doesn't matter what you say inthe office If the parents don't
see the a change in this kid.
He's not cleaning his room,he's not standing straighter,
he's not loud, he's still shy,he can't look you in the eye
when you shake his hand andyou're like, okay, time to
upgrade.
It's $400 a month now Forgetabout it.
Forget about it and peopledon't realize that upgrade is
(24:57):
actually happening on the floor.
You got to promise that, right,so what's your timing on that?
Can you give us some insight onyour process a little bit?
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yes.
So they'll start off with kindof a three-month deal,
three-month program at least,and then I'll get into the next
belt.
So we do our belt assessmentsevery three months.
We call it an assessment, bythe way, we got rid of, replaced
with from a test, because atest you can fail right.
So now, instead of saying it'sa test that they could fail,
(25:29):
because we're not failing peopleat these events publicly,
because that's not productive,so we call them assessments.
So, anyways, we get them to thenext belt or have them enroll
and then at that point, if wefeel like maybe they're going to
be a good fit for the nextprogram, which is Black Book
Club, then we will send them aninvitation.
And we do this with ahandwritten note that we'll send
(25:52):
out via snail mail and they'llget it.
But we also talk about it atthe belt assessment Check your
mail and if we feel like thatyou would be a good fit, then
you'll get an invitation.
And this is powerful, becausethen we also say if you don't
get one, didn't get one, thenreach out and we can tell you
(26:14):
how you can get it next time.
Nice, so when you have thissense of scarcity, right, when
it's an exclusive thing.
That's when things startchanging.
But you have to first prove itto them that you are going to
deliver on your promise.
I know, master Lee, you likeToyota, you like Lexus, and a
(26:36):
lot of people do Talk about cult.
Toyota's a cult, and the reasonwhy is people know they're
going to deliver longevity andquality, like they know because
they've proved it over the years.
That is what we're alwaystrying to do in that first three
to six months.
So basically, we'll repeat thisprocess.
We call it the invite onlyprocess and we look at two
(26:59):
things.
We look at their attendance,because if they're not coming
consistently, it doesn't matter.
If you invite them, they'restill not going to be a right
fit because they're not evenfully vested into your program
anyways.
So it's almost like don't showyour cards too early.
You got to hold them back andsay yeah, you're not ready.
Second is are they followingthe rules?
(27:20):
Because the way our programsare divided is not just some you
know name, oh, and a uniform.
Now you get a blue uniform andthen now you're considered Black
Book Club.
You're going to be doing theexact same thing.
That, to me, is lying and Icannot operate like that.
So what I did was I divided ourcurriculum up into three levels
(27:42):
Beginner, kind of a beginnerbasic kind of curriculum, and
then intermediate and thenadvanced.
And we have this rotatingcurriculum.
So now when they join BlackBook Club, they're going to be
doing something more advanced.
Thus, if their behavior is notwhere it needs to be, they're
not going to be able to keep upin the more advanced curriculum.
So if we're doing more advanced, pumze and they're going to
(28:03):
ruin the experience for theother students who want to be
there and they're behaving sothat's the second requirement.
So we'll send those invitationsout, we'll schedule a
conference, talk to them aboutit and then the commitment is a
minimum one year, and that'swhen they're going to be
essentially paying almost doublethan what they were paying
before.
It's crazy for me still towatch.
(28:24):
These parents are all in.
They're like yep, we're in.
I'm like you're going to doubleyour payment.
So that's amazing.
I feel so honored that you'regoing to do that.
The next program is going to beperformance, which is our gray
uniform, and this is where itgoes up to about 430.
Same process, same requirement.
First, are you coming to classconsistently?
(28:45):
Now, instead of behavior, it'smore about do we feel like we
can push them to the next level,for example, teaching them a
more advanced PUMSE, moreadvanced curriculum, for example
for our self-defense, oursafety skills, instead of just
doing stand-up, we'll take themdown and then we'll learn and
teach them how to submit,because that in itself can be
(29:06):
dangerous.
We can't have students who arestill working on behavior be
trusted with those verypotentially dangerous moves.
So then we repeat that processand then, if they feel like it's
a good fit, then they'll enrollin that one and then finally,
once they are 13, we'll also dothe same process for our
leadership program, which is theblack uniform, same uniform I
(29:27):
wear, everybody wears the sameuniform at that level, and at
that time we're going to betraining them to become an
instructor, learning how toassist first and then ultimately
learning how to lead a class.
The thing I'd like to do, movingforward this is what I'm
working on now is how do wedevelop that leadership program?
So then the parents are goingto go.
If it's 500 bucks a month,that's worth it.
(29:49):
And I'm thinking we do thingslike have maybe monthly coaching
sessions where we ask thestudent hey, how's your grades,
how's it going in school withyour social situation?
Are you dealing with anybullying, all that type of stuff
?
Think about, as a parent, ifyou have a mentor mentoring your
child.
I think you'd pay a lot forthat, especially if they can
(30:12):
lean on having thatreinforcement or that confidence
in a different area.
So that's kind of where we'reat now, but the end goal for us
is keep them through high schoolto the graduation and hopefully
we find some future, come outand and well, I don't.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
I was gonna ask you.
I mean, I'm gonna go, I was, Iwas gonna ask you.
I am sure that you found thatsome of your black belts over
the years have done some prettyremarkable stuff.
Can you tell us some of the bigvictories of some of your black
belts, some of your products?
Right?
I mean, at the end of the day,that's the product, right, it's
our student, so can you?
Speaker 2 (30:50):
We got engineers, many doctors, engineers.
One guy he got a PhD inmathematics.
I mean, these are nerdy kids,which is our people.
I love the nerdy kids.
I don't want the athletic kids.
These are the quiet,introverted ones.
Those are our people and wetake them, help them, like,
guide them on how to communicate, how to be a leader, like how
(31:13):
to have some confidence, andthen they end up going off and
making a lot more money than Ido.
But ultimately you're right,it's, the result is there and
we've seen it over and over andover again.
So, going back to that original, that other question, it was
just how, where did you get theconfidence?
It's because I've seen theresults.
We've I've seen the results.
(31:34):
That's how I can easily talkabout this stuff and easily feel
confident.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Well, I know, okay, so it might be a sticker shock
for majority of school owners400-plus tuition.
But honestly, like I'm a soccerdad, I have a 12-year-old
playing competitive soccer.
I pay just the club fees, notincluding other fees associated.
I pay $4,000 a year.
That's $300.
(32:08):
And what?
$330, $350 a month without evenbatting an eye, you know right.
So that, honestly, a 400, 450,500 tuition for what taekwondo
does, which does far more thanthan a soccer athlete, is, if
you really think about it, it'snot that unheard of, it
shouldn't be.
But as you said, masterco, thewhole industry has this fixed
(32:28):
mindset of 150, 180, 190 that wedon't even contemplate about.
Hey, our program is worth muchmore than soccer and golf and
water polo.
We do so much more than theseother sports that we should be
charging what we need to becharging, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Here's my theory.
This all started, I think,bless our fathers, but it
started with them, I mean,because of how they were raised,
like my father was raisedpost-Korean War, right, so it
was really, really poor.
So what has happened and I'veactually experienced this is the
(33:09):
race to the bottom oh, theycharge you $150?
We do $140.
And then they hear, oh, they'regoing to do $140?
No, we do $130.
And then you keep going down,and down and down and that
becomes the standard and itpulls the whole industry down,
because we have this bidding warwhen in reality you just stick
(33:30):
to your rate and then, if it'snot a fit, then move on, let
them go where they're going tohave to.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
That is so funny, it's so true.
I mean that's, you're like howmuch did they charge?
Do you remember these callsBefore caller ID?
You're like, bring out yellowpages.
You call those three schools,hi.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I'm interested in lessons.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Dad, they charge $129 a month.
Okay, we go 109.
You're laughing because you alldid it, so don't even yeah, we
all did it right as kids.
We're like okay, dad, oh yeah,we all did it right as kids
we're like okay, dad, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Well, Masterco, how do you handle objections from
potential parents who says, hey,your tuition is too high.
I know other schools in thearea is less than that.
What is your overcomingobjections to that?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Well, honestly, I don't do any of ourselves now.
But if I were, then I wouldfirst ask why did you come here
in the first place?
And I always revisit the painpoint.
So, for example, well, theymight say he needs more
discipline.
Okay, well, how much is thatworth to you?
(34:41):
How much is it worth for yourchild to do what they were told
the first time at home?
Would that save you time athome?
Would that save you emotionaldistress?
How much is that worth to you?
And they're like no, I can seethat.
Well, to me, this is that we'renot charging enough.
I mean, I know for me, if Icould pay X amount of dollars
(35:09):
for my daughter to not back talkas much, I will be forking that
out.
But it goes back to revisitingtheir pain point.
Now you might get people comingin.
They're just looking forsomething fun.
With those people, the goal isto uncover a potential pain
point they didn't know about andyou start asking questions how
is she at home, how is he atschool, all those things.
(35:32):
But then, if it just comes downoh, we're just looking for
something fun I would say youknow what?
Maybe we're not a fit, maybethis is not the right place for
you.
I know down the street they'rea little bit less.
You should go check them out.
They might be a better fitbecause ultimately, genuinely, I
just want you to be happy.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Well, I could honestly say there's not going
to be any amount for mynine-year-old daughter to stop
backtalking me, because I triedit and that has no bearing.
She will backtalk me all day,all week.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Even if you give her a hundred bucks.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
When I gave her a hundred.
She backtalks more becauseshe's like oh, I'm getting a
hundred out of this, I should bedoing more of this, so there's
no amount of money, yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Well, I want to thank you for coming on our podcast
and sharing your insights and Iknow you've been very busy in
the last 20 years and we'vewe've passed ships in the wind
in different events and thingsand and so forth, but I do know
we have a commonality that welove martial arts and we know
the power of what we do canchange a course of a child's
(36:37):
life, and you are.
You are a representative ofthat and to me, the focus of
today's podcast is that be abetter teacher and be a better
influencer to these kids to havethem become better citizens.
And the money will always bethere, absolutely so.
Can you give us a quick previewof I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
I'm sorry to say, by the way.
By the way, masterco is goingto be one of our speakers at our
ASA, marshall Arts Summit 2025in Las Vegas this year in
October.
So I just wanted our audienceand listeners to know that you
guys could see him in person,and this is exactly the topic
that Masterco is going to bediscussing in more detail.
(37:20):
So we want to invite everybodyout here to meet Master Koh in
person, really pick his brain,and we're going to raise our
whole industry up.
So I just want to let ouraudience know about that.
Well, I was going to say he wasgoing to be there.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
And I think the other cool thing about Asah and all
our events is that there's a lotof interaction with our
speakers.
There are a lot of networking.
We're going out, we're going toI know some people are playing
golf and we have some peoplethat are also going to eat
dinner together at some of thedifferent events, and then we
have a mixer going on on Fridaynight too.
(37:56):
So plenty of opportunities.
I think sometimes you willlearn more in the hallways, as
they say, of these eventsbecause you get a chance to kind
of ask a specific question andso forth.
And it's been quite remarkableto see your incredible success
in your town and it's quiteinspiring, and I think that's
(38:16):
one of the reasons I reached outto you to say, hey, you've got
to inspire others to be at theirbest.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Thank, you, sir.
Well, one final question,masako, talking about being in
town, you're in the heartland ofAmerica.
I'm in West Coast, southernCalifornia.
Is there any for coastal schoolowners versus and Master Lee is
Midwest as well any differencein terms of being in the
heartland versus anywhere else?
(38:41):
Is there advantage,disadvantage, or does it not
matter?
Speaker 2 (38:46):
That's a good question.
I would say the feel of a cityis always going to be a little
bit different.
But you know, master Lee, and Iknow the kind of Midwestern
feel, the Midwestern people, themindset.
So I love the Midwest mindset.
People are very nice, but Ithink it just depends on the
(39:06):
pockets too right.
You can go into different areasin your city and they're all
different.
For example, all three of ourlocations, the demographics, or
at least the people, are justdifferent.
It's weird.
It's only 15, 20 minutes awayfrom each other, but with people
in California I don't know whatto say about that, because
(39:29):
we're crazy out here, we'recrazy.
You said it.
You said it.
I know Elk Owner is there, butfor me it's just it would be a
little different to try to run astudio there.
But who knows, I think.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
But I would have to say I just I, I kind of disagree
because I think being incharging the amount that you're
charging in the midwest,considering how conservative the
people in the midwest are andhow skeptical midwesterners are,
very skeptical about things andand you kind of like, blow that
(40:04):
theory out of the water becauseyou produce.
So I think if you use thatformula, whether that be in New
York or whether you do that onthe East Coast or the West Coast
, as long as you are producingwhat you're saying you're going
to do, then people will pay.
In spades.
I have a friend who he doescollege consulting.
To employ him for the year is$12,000 a year, that's a
(40:30):
thousand bucks a month.
And if you want your kid to getto Harvard or Yale or any of
the IVs or whatever, you've gotto follow his formula and you'll
do it and so forth.
And parents like he has awaiting list and he's on the
West coast but he's produced theresult, so people don't say boo
.
So if you follow his formula,you have a great shot of getting
into these places.
(40:50):
And I feel that's the same withwith Dojang.
If you, like you said, if youare producing, and part of your
enrollment conference was allabout like how is he at home?
Is he cleaning up?
And if you're not, then youcan't.
If you're not showing thatlevel of commitment at home,
you're not getting to my nextprogram, as opposed to people
like we will make him better paynow it doesn't.
(41:13):
It doesn't matter what you sayin the office, and I think
you've really hammered thatpoint home and people think, oh
yeah, Master Cole must just be agood business guy.
No, he's a brilliant teacher.
They're missing the point interms of doing that.
So you know, it always bogglesmy mind and there's a lot of
haters out there too.
Anytime someone's doingsuccessful, they're like that
(41:34):
dude, sold out, that dude.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Oh, my goodness, I've heard that many times with all
my competitors.
So my father is still in the he, he lives here, and they talk
to him on the golf course andthey're like, oh, bronston, he,
he, just businessman, he, goodbusinessman, right.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
and I'm like, okay, I guess so I guess that's the way
it is well, none of thosepeople are going to come to asa
because they're not allowed to,because asA is going to be a
positive and reinforcement ofeverything that we're doing.
You know, let's conclude there.
Master Chan Lee, Master BronsonKo, thank you for your time
(42:15):
being on the podcast and to ourlisteners there you have it An
inside look at what it takes tobuild a premium martial arts
brand right from the heartland.
From bold pricing to visionaryleadership.
Master Ko and Master Chan Leeare clearly setting a new
standard in our industry.
I hope you got as much out ofthis show as I did.
(42:36):
If you're inspired to rethinkwhat's possible in your business
, this episode was a masterclassin doing just that.
Thanks for tuning in and we'llcatch you on the next one.
In this week's episode, we'll discuss the topic
the secret behind the highesttuition in America.
Welcome to Black Belt Banter,the best podcast to help your
martial arts school increase inprofits and generate substantial
revenue.
I'm Jimmy Hong and my co-hostis Master Chan Lee.
(00:21):
We are joined by Master BronsonKo, a second-generation martial
artist turned visionaryentrepreneur.
He opened his first Taekwondoschool at just 23 and now leads
three premium locations,including two custom-built
state-of-the-art facilitieswhich he owns.
One spans 8,000 square feet andthe other 5,000 square feet,
(00:46):
with programs ranging from $200to $400 per month and a team of
35 plus employees.
Master Ko's mission is bold tobuild the apple of martial arts
studios.
He is focused on scaling hisbrand, developing leaders and
delivering a world-classexperience that redefines
(01:06):
excellence in our industry.
Master Lee, master Ko, welcometo the show.
Very excited to have both ofyou on the podcast today.
Let's dive right in.
400 a month for martial artsclasses that's crazy impressive.
What makes that price pointwork, masako?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Well, my first response to that is that's what
we all should be doing, becausethat's how much I believe in the
power of martial arts,especially with kids, with youth
.
And also this is based on whatI've experienced, since I've
been doing this since I wasthree.
But our rates actually willstart lower.
(01:53):
So we start at around $230 to$250 a month, and then we have
different programs after that.
So, for example, black BeltClub is $400.
And then we kind ofincrementally go up from there.
So it's about 30 more for thenext program.
And then our mentorship programis for our students who have
(02:14):
aspirations of becominginstructors with us, and that'll
be around 430.
My goal is our last program,which is our leadership program,
is going to be 500.
So we're kind of working onthat right now.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
So obviously I tell people, no one pays $100 a month
just to learn how to kick andpunch.
But if you go something beyondthat, that there's a vision and
there's something that goesbeyond the kicking and punching
and so forth, and it sounds likeyou've built a culture of
people that go, I'm not justlearning how to kick and punch,
(02:48):
I'm learning how to become abetter human being.
So what are elements in yourprogram?
Do you kind of like emphasizeBecause you already you kind of
said leadership a little bit,mentorship, things like that
what are some of the uniquethings that you are offering
with your students?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Well, you hit it on the head.
Leadership is a huge passion ofmine and that's something that
we really focus on.
First, helping our studentslearn how to lead themselves.
I mean, it's just the basic,simple, positive habits
instilled in their lifeIncreasing discipline, learning
how to care for themselves, maketheir bed, all those different
(03:25):
things.
And then the second is learninghow to lead other people.
I I think we achieve thispretty well just by how we teach
.
I've always kind of had a knackfor teaching, even since when I
first started.
Actually, when I first started,it was pretty rough, but then I
started learning what was themore effective way of teaching,
(03:47):
and it wasn't necessarily basedon how I was taught which you
probably can relate to thiswhich was the um, do what I say,
or do knuckle pushups, or I'mgoing to take a stick and hit
your legs.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
We call that the memory stick.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Actually my, my father, the memory stick, uh, my
father, the memory stick.
My father was on a podcast.
You can watch that.
He shares all of thoseexperiences.
But it just doesn't work today,like that method doesn't work,
and you're going to have anempty school.
So I kind of coined the way weteach by calling that the mentor
method.
So we use a lot of intrinsicmotivation.
(04:22):
We use a lot ofconversation-based teaching,
less of the fear-based.
I think a little bit of fear isnecessary and healthy because
that instills respect, but thatshouldn't be the only motivation
.
So the leadership aspect isingrained in all of our programs
and one of the big things thatwe're always trying to focus on
(04:44):
is helping these students learnhow to clearly communicate
effectively with their verbalcommunication, because they're
really good using their thumbson their phone right or typing
on a computer.
But if you just talk to a randomchild today, it's hard for them
to look at you in the eyes andactually speak clearly and loud
(05:07):
enough.
It's crazy.
So that is, I think, where alot of our parents see the value
is that we really focus on that, because they see that that's
going to help their child gainan edge over their peers and the
competition.
The other is just the culturethat we're trying to really
build here with the old schoolprinciples, I think, with a lot
(05:31):
of the things come that havecome out, you know, whether it
be ufc and mma and all theseother things, and even sport
taco no right was sparring andwearing these giant baggy
uniforms, and there's no morekind of the tradition.
We are keeping that and I thinkpeople are now starting to
realize how valuable that is andthrough that culture is how
(05:53):
they naturally become betterleaders.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
That is quite remarkable, and I think you've
kind of made that formula andflipped it on its head.
I mean, it's one of thosethings where I remember, early
in my career, I said well, look,I'm gonna have to teach
different stuff.
I'm gonna teach Hapkido, I'mgonna teach weapons, I'm gonna
teach nunchucks, I'm gonna teachblow darts, ninja, throwing
(06:18):
stars, I'll learn how to scale awall and I'll do jujitsu and,
for good measure, we'll dogymnastics right.
So you go, I'm going to add allthese value added programs and
and, and maybe in the morningwe'll do yoga and we'll add all
these value added programs andthat will that will provide
tremendous value.
And when I first talked to you,you were like so I was like what
(06:39):
else do you teach?
Do you teach jujitsu?
Do you teach whatever?
And you're like, no, justtaekwondo.
And I was like what?
You don't teach any othermartial arts?
No, just strictly taekwondo.
And it was refreshing and andand then I really kind of you
know, like you just told us, itwas just a dive deeper that what
makes martial arts special isthe character, development
(07:02):
aspects, and you have kind ofhit that in the head.
And if people are listening tothis, I want them to understand.
Like you didn't go well here,let me make a new business
system where I can upgradepeople and and they will pay me,
because that's you know.
I just have it on a piece ofpaper.
It says $400 a month.
You are providing a tremendousamount of value where parents
(07:25):
don't even blink twice aboutdoing it, and so and so well,
can I just say at this point inmy, when I was younger, it was
all about budget.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I was on a cause.
I wasn't making a lot of moneywhen I was younger, so it was
all about budget, whatever price.
But now, at this point in mylife, with kids, with my wife,
with family, I question anythingthat's cheap.
If it's cheap, I'm like is thisproduct any good?
I'm already thinking, and stillthis is not a great product.
(08:00):
I don't think I even want it.
But when there's somethingexpensive, like Apple phones or
computers or Macs or whatever,to other programs and products
that are higher priced thanother competitors, I
automatically assume oh wait aminute, this company must be
better, without even knowingabout the company.
I just assume that becausethrough 50 years of being on
(08:23):
this earth I have learnedcheaper is better, not every
time, but more often than not isnot better than the quality
stuff that I could buy moreexpensive now and that I could
use better use for and have alonger shelf life.
And from kids' activities tosports to whatever the cheaper
(08:43):
brand I don't even want to beassociated with because I know
programs that offer highesttuition.
They really focus on thequality of their product and
their teaching.
So to that, masterco.
I mean, I definitely understandthe mindset and you're
absolutely right.
Us as an industry needs tocreate that kind of value.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yes, you hit it right in the head.
There's two things you said.
First was that automaticreaction to perception of value
when you hear the price is low.
We are all like that.
That's just the way it is.
That's just the human condition.
We all think like this.
And then the second thing yousaid was you don't want to be
(09:25):
associated with a cheap brand.
That in itself is what I thinkall martial arts school owners
really need to pay attention to.
And this goes into the nextthing I haven't mentioned with
charging higher rates is you gotto pay attention to the details
, because all those littledetails all add up to perception
(09:48):
of value and, most importantly,it's going to cause your
customer to say, oh, that's me,I want to aspire to be like that
, or that is not me.
So, for example, if you go intoan average martial arts studio,
you tend to see some clutter,you tend to smell some stinky
(10:11):
feet, like the mats haven't beenscrubbed in weeks, right?
All those little things allplay into that perception of
value.
And, most importantly, do Iwant to identify with this brand
?
Is this who I want to be?
If not, then not only are theynot going to pay the high rate,
they're also going to be walkingout the door, absolutely,
(10:31):
absolutely.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
So can you give me a little bit of?
Because I saw your first school.
I remember way back when I waslike that's a really beautiful
school.
And then your second one, evenbetter.
Where do you, where do you pullyour inspiration?
And you own all the buildingsthat you're in.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
So we own two.
We just opened our third one injanuary, and that is a got it,
got it, got it did you hire itto your designer or did you
design it yourself?
last one.
I did the last one, I did thefirst one.
I kind of worked alongside withthe architect.
So when you're building right,you have the architect, who kind
(11:10):
of more is focused on theimportant aspects of the
structure right, making surenobody dies, but then on top of
that maybe you'll have adesigner who makes it look good.
So then I kind of played thatrole as a designer for the first
two buildings and then last one.
I wanted to get somebody elsewho really knew what they were
doing and pick their brain.
(11:31):
But I always have a lot of sayin this because I know what I
want.
This is something that I'vealways had a knack for, even
when I was younger.
I could just see things that Ithink look good.
My mother is a graph designer.
I do.
I've created our logo, I do alot of our graph design.
That's something that I'vealways had a passion for.
(11:53):
I just I hate to say it,hopefully it doesn't come across
as arrogant I just know itlooks good.
So that's kind of where theinspiration comes from oh no, I
know exactly what you mean.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
my wife is a professional interior designer
and and she could see an emptyroom and then visualize how that
room needs to be, or or a floorplan to a house, and know,
without even just know in ourhead, that, oh, the the best
conducive floor plan to today'smodern family living needs to be
(12:25):
this way, that way, I look atan empty room and and you,
unless you show me in a 3D likeAutoCAD graphic model, I
wouldn't have a clue of whatyou're talking about.
But creatives and artists anddesigners like yourself and my
wife I mean I understandfirsthand experience oh, we
should do this, this this way,to a point where I don't even, I
(12:47):
can't even try to grasp to seeit until after it's done.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
So that's absolutely true, and I think I see it.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I was going to say your price point, like when you
say that's what you charge, itmatches.
You know what I mean.
You don't look at it and goyeah, I bet it's like $50 a
month.
Did it break $100?
That doesn't come into your,you walk in and you, you see it
and you go yeah, this is gonna,it's gonna cost us, right?
It's like walking into amercedes dealership as opposed
(13:18):
to going to, uh, you know,hyundai or something like that,
or I mean have you guys beencoming up, coming up hyundai.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
You can't say hyundai anymore okay, I'm sorry, like
tesla.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Oh wait, you guys both drive teslas, sorry no, no,
no, come on tesla's.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Tesla's not bad, but we don't need to get quality the
car have you been into a riviandealers?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
I had a rivian I had a rivian for over a year, yeah
that's.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
That's that's crazy.
They get it, they do get it,yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, but I think it's important to add also why I
pursue the higher rates.
I just want to clarify what'smost important to me, which is I
want to see a positive changein the child.
I'm not in this business justto make money.
I'm not in this business to tryto take as much money as I can
(14:15):
from the parent.
I'm not in that for this.
There's other ways to make moremoney, right?
So, in order for you toactually get a permanent change
in the child, what do you needfrom the parent?
Commitment, fully committed.
If they're just here just foran activity or they're just
coming month to month orwhatever, or, more importantly,
(14:37):
if they just see this likePlanet Fitness, where it's like
$10 a month and they can justcancel whenever they want
because it doesn't hurt, thenwe're not going to get that long
lasting, permanent change.
So what happens?
When you pay more for something, you actually become more
committed to it.
Again, if you're paying $10 amonth for Planet Fitness, you'll
miss.
If you're paying $500 a monthfor some luxury gym, I bet
(15:01):
you're going to be making alittle bit more.
You're not missing, becauseevery time you miss that's going
to be hurting your pocket.
So that's the overarchingstrategy goal that I have is I
want the parents to be committed, and the only way that we can
have universal commitment iswith your wallet.
You can say everything you want.
You can do anything you want.
(15:23):
You can say just say it.
But most important is when youput your hard-earned money on
the table.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
That's when you show that you're committed is when
you put your hard-earned moneyon the table.
That's when you show thatyou're committed.
So, master Co, I just have aquestion, because I've known you
for a while Like I think we'veknown each other close to 20
years now.
I've seen this growth in youbecause 20 years ago you were
just another school owner.
You're like your average schoolowner 150 bucks a month, 140
bucks a month.
What happened?
What happened in the last 20years?
(15:50):
What was the genesis of youknow what?
I'm going to charge more.
I'm going to create more changeBecause I think you and I have
been to a lot of our industrymeetings.
That's where we usually met andwe'd go and we're like same old
stuff, we'd listen to it andwhatever.
And I think where you and I arealigned is it's not about the
(16:12):
business systems, it's aboutcreating the real value on the
mat and and you've done that inspades to an incredible level.
So just kind of get me throughthat journey what?
What was the shift?
Cause I'm sure there's a lot ofpeople on this podcast.
They can't even fathom likegetting over 200 bucks or 250 or
300.
(16:32):
You're not at this amount of400 because you can put it on a
piece of paper and charge it.
But if you don't believe inthat dollar amount, you're not
going to get it.
So how did you get into thisextraordinary amount of
confidence within yourself tosay, hey, this is what I'm going
to charge, this is what I feelI'm worth, and if that I bet
(16:55):
you're in your mind you're like,no, I'm undercharging, even at
400 bucks.
I bet that's what you feel alittle bit.
Tell me that psychology andphilosophy that you got into
that point.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
First and foremost, it's the habit of reading, just
reading business books as manyas possible.
I've read so many.
I mean, if you look on my wallI've got tons it's just always
having that sponge for a mind,always searching for there's got
to be a better way, there's gotto be a better way.
(17:25):
And then, most importantly, howdo I serve my students in a
better way?
How can we get more results?
How do we make this better?
And then also just visitingbusinesses or even studios.
I used to go and visit studiosall the time and just finding
(17:48):
little things from a differentperspective, outside of the
typical kind of Taekwondo dojangperspective which was instilled
into me from my father, whichis hard to get rid of, right,
and I remember I used to ask himlike you should charge more?
He'd go oh no, they're notgoing to pay, that they won't
(18:10):
pay, that they're going to quit,and having to kind of remove
that stigma by looking outsideof the industry.
But, most importantly, havingthis pursuit of I want to charge
, or this idea I want to charge$500 a month, how can I make it
worth it to the parent?
(18:30):
And then, starting from there,what do they want?
What are they looking for,because when the pain is great
enough, then the amount nowbecomes irrelevant.
If you have, you know, heavenforbid.
Let's say there's somethingwrong with your child, you have
to take them to the hospital.
You'll pay whatever, doesn'tmatter.
(18:50):
Now, that's an extreme example.
But then it's getting to knowyour child.
You have to take them to thehospital, you'll pay whatever,
it doesn't matter.
Now, that's an extreme example.
But then it's getting to knowyour students, your parents, and
then being the best option and,most importantly, following
through with delivering thatsolution to the parent.
But this is not an easy process.
This is where people think thatit's easy.
It's not easy and there's noshortcuts.
(19:12):
You've got to train yourself,you've got to really know your
stuff.
And the big thing for us is howdo you know that you can teach
well?
Just because that you're afifth on that doesn't matter.
You could be a white belt inteaching.
So first is are you good atteaching or is are your
(19:32):
instructors good at teaching?
Cause that's our product, right?
Second, curriculum I've beenworking on our curriculum for 20
years and we do teach a littlebit of jujitsu, a little boxing
now, just cause I want practicalself-defense.
But that's 20%.
80% of us poomsae, like weliterally just focus on poomsae,
which a lot of people think iscrazy because they think it's so
boring.
(19:52):
We don't do any competition,none of that stuff.
But to answer your question, alot of reading, a lot of looking
outside of my own little studio.
I used to hear Bill.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Clark.
Yeah, Master Clark.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Back in the day he had I don't know 30 or 40
locations, I used to think, wow,how does that even happen?
Or some of these people saying,oh, we charged $300 a month.
It was like mind blown.
And now I look back and I thinkthat's how they do it and I
think I can do a little bitbetter.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
So for people listening on the podcast, are
there any books like here arethe three surefire books that
you should get started?
Because we have people that arecoming to our ASSA summit that
you know they're on the verge.
Probably in the next six toeight months they're going to
close or they're thinking abouta career change and, as we have
(20:45):
friends that are also doingsuper well, what would you say
to them?
Say, here, here are the, hereare the three books, or
something that is going to getme started on my journey?
Speaker 1 (20:57):
If you're going to advise Master Chan Lee, you
could only give him one bookrecommendation, because he's not
going to get past the one tothree.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
My strategy is what book did you read?
Then I go okay, what was themain point of that book?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
or you just go to chat gpt and say tell me the
five bullet points right,exactly, exactly he would, he
would, he would call me and sayhey, what was that book about?
Speaker 1 (21:25):
okay, and then he would use that as his way of
reading the book.
I got, got books back here.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Honestly, there's so many I mean the one you're
always going to hear for newbusiness entrepreneurs, the
first one is.
E-myth.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Michael Gerber.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Right, it's all about working on your business and
not in it.
The second one oh my goodness,this is hard for me.
I would say that really standsout.
This is not even really aboutbusiness, it's more about
personal development.
It's called the power of habit.
This one changed me big time andit just goes through like how
(22:06):
do you create habits?
Because, think about it,discipline is a myth.
You only have habits, you onlyhave routines.
So if you can instill, forexample, reading, because I
listen to books, I don't readthem.
I listen to them when I'mdriving, every single day.
I don't listen to music.
Think about if you compoundthat over years, you're going to
(22:27):
become a different person, Iwould say.
Lastly, if you really want totake your business to a
different level and and reallytry to be different, there's a
book that came out recentlycalled unreasonable hospitality.
That one was really good,really good.
It was written by a guy who rana three-star Michelin
(22:49):
restaurant and he talks aboutall these little things that
they do to charge $100 for anappetizer.
I mean, people aren't walkingout without spending at least
$1,000 for a meal there.
So those are the three.
If anybody wants to reach out,I can give you more?
Speaker 3 (23:07):
That's a great start.
I think that's one of the like.
When we get to a SA or thesemeetings, that's one of the
things that everybody goes.
What are you more?
That's a great start.
I think that's one of the like.
When we get to a saw or thesemeetings, that's one of the
things that everybody goes whatare you reading, what's the
latest thing you're up to?
And and everybody's just likewriting down book
recommendations.
And I don't know if this works,but it's the Star Trek manual
to Kirk Fu, so I don't know.
It's changed my life so, butanyway, Well, I haven't.
(23:29):
Oh, okay, I mean you know StarTrek's a major franchise, so now
you have a little insight intomy brain.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
So just to kind of re I hope no one's making fun of
Star Trek, because that'sliterally my favorite show.
I'm just saying, pastor Chan.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
I'm just saying but you know what, you know some of
the parents.
So just to tell you, like whenyou make a Star Trek reference
or a Star Wars reference andthey go, yes, sir, and I'm like,
oh okay, these are the type ofpeople that are training with us
and I'm one of them, and HarryPotter too, that's another.
It's those people that get intothose genres and so forth.
It is definitely a cult.
(24:12):
It is definitely a cult.
So I'm assuming, if you, ifwe're going over programs, you
have your basic program right At200, some dollars, $259 or $249
.
And then on your two years,when do you go into an upgrade?
Do you do that within a year ortwo years to have them abject
some change?
I'm sure you have a staffmeeting and you talk to your
staff and saying, okay, who'sstepped up to the plate a little
(24:35):
bit here in terms of doing that, because I tell my staff it
doesn't matter what you say inthe office If the parents don't
see the a change in this kid.
He's not cleaning his room,he's not standing straighter,
he's not loud, he's still shy,he can't look you in the eye
when you shake his hand andyou're like, okay, time to
upgrade.
It's $400 a month now Forgetabout it.
Forget about it and peopledon't realize that upgrade is
(24:57):
actually happening on the floor.
You got to promise that, right,so what's your timing on that?
Can you give us some insight onyour process a little bit?
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Yes.
So they'll start off with kindof a three-month deal,
three-month program at least,and then I'll get into the next
belt.
So we do our belt assessmentsevery three months.
We call it an assessment, bythe way, we got rid of, replaced
with from a test, because atest you can fail right.
So now, instead of saying it'sa test that they could fail,
(25:29):
because we're not failing peopleat these events publicly,
because that's not productive,so we call them assessments.
So, anyways, we get them to thenext belt or have them enroll
and then at that point, if wefeel like maybe they're going to
be a good fit for the nextprogram, which is Black Book
Club, then we will send them aninvitation.
And we do this with ahandwritten note that we'll send
(25:52):
out via snail mail and they'llget it.
But we also talk about it atthe belt assessment Check your
mail and if we feel like thatyou would be a good fit, then
you'll get an invitation.
And this is powerful, becausethen we also say if you don't
get one, didn't get one, thenreach out and we can tell you
(26:14):
how you can get it next time.
Nice, so when you have thissense of scarcity, right, when
it's an exclusive thing.
That's when things startchanging.
But you have to first prove itto them that you are going to
deliver on your promise.
I know, master Lee, you likeToyota, you like Lexus, and a
(26:36):
lot of people do Talk about cult.
Toyota's a cult, and the reasonwhy is people know they're
going to deliver longevity andquality, like they know because
they've proved it over the years.
That is what we're alwaystrying to do in that first three
to six months.
So basically, we'll repeat thisprocess.
We call it the invite onlyprocess and we look at two
(26:59):
things.
We look at their attendance,because if they're not coming
consistently, it doesn't matter.
If you invite them, they'restill not going to be a right
fit because they're not evenfully vested into your program
anyways.
So it's almost like don't showyour cards too early.
You got to hold them back andsay yeah, you're not ready.
Second is are they followingthe rules?
(27:20):
Because the way our programsare divided is not just some you
know name, oh, and a uniform.
Now you get a blue uniform andthen now you're considered Black
Book Club.
You're going to be doing theexact same thing.
That, to me, is lying and Icannot operate like that.
So what I did was I divided ourcurriculum up into three levels
(27:42):
Beginner, kind of a beginnerbasic kind of curriculum, and
then intermediate and thenadvanced.
And we have this rotatingcurriculum.
So now when they join BlackBook Club, they're going to be
doing something more advanced.
Thus, if their behavior is notwhere it needs to be, they're
not going to be able to keep upin the more advanced curriculum.
So if we're doing more advanced, pumze and they're going to
(28:03):
ruin the experience for theother students who want to be
there and they're behaving sothat's the second requirement.
So we'll send those invitationsout, we'll schedule a
conference, talk to them aboutit and then the commitment is a
minimum one year, and that'swhen they're going to be
essentially paying almost doublethan what they were paying
before.
It's crazy for me still towatch.
(28:24):
These parents are all in.
They're like yep, we're in.
I'm like you're going to doubleyour payment.
So that's amazing.
I feel so honored that you'regoing to do that.
The next program is going to beperformance, which is our gray
uniform, and this is where itgoes up to about 430.
Same process, same requirement.
First, are you coming to classconsistently?
(28:45):
Now, instead of behavior, it'smore about do we feel like we
can push them to the next level,for example, teaching them a
more advanced PUMSE, moreadvanced curriculum, for example
for our self-defense, oursafety skills, instead of just
doing stand-up, we'll take themdown and then we'll learn and
teach them how to submit,because that in itself can be
(29:06):
dangerous.
We can't have students who arestill working on behavior be
trusted with those verypotentially dangerous moves.
So then we repeat that processand then, if they feel like it's
a good fit, then they'll enrollin that one and then finally,
once they are 13, we'll also dothe same process for our
leadership program, which is theblack uniform, same uniform I
(29:27):
wear, everybody wears the sameuniform at that level, and at
that time we're going to betraining them to become an
instructor, learning how toassist first and then ultimately
learning how to lead a class.
The thing I'd like to do, movingforward this is what I'm
working on now is how do wedevelop that leadership program?
So then the parents are goingto go.
If it's 500 bucks a month,that's worth it.
(29:49):
And I'm thinking we do thingslike have maybe monthly coaching
sessions where we ask thestudent hey, how's your grades,
how's it going in school withyour social situation?
Are you dealing with anybullying, all that type of stuff
?
Think about, as a parent, ifyou have a mentor mentoring your
child.
I think you'd pay a lot forthat, especially if they can
(30:12):
lean on having thatreinforcement or that confidence
in a different area.
So that's kind of where we'reat now, but the end goal for us
is keep them through high schoolto the graduation and hopefully
we find some future, come outand and well, I don't.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
I was gonna ask you.
I mean, I'm gonna go, I was, Iwas gonna ask you.
I am sure that you found thatsome of your black belts over
the years have done some prettyremarkable stuff.
Can you tell us some of the bigvictories of some of your black
belts, some of your products?
Right?
I mean, at the end of the day,that's the product, right, it's
our student, so can you?
Speaker 2 (30:50):
We got engineers, many doctors, engineers.
One guy he got a PhD inmathematics.
I mean, these are nerdy kids,which is our people.
I love the nerdy kids.
I don't want the athletic kids.
These are the quiet,introverted ones.
Those are our people and wetake them, help them, like,
guide them on how to communicate, how to be a leader, like how
(31:13):
to have some confidence, andthen they end up going off and
making a lot more money than Ido.
But ultimately you're right,it's, the result is there and
we've seen it over and over andover again.
So, going back to that original, that other question, it was
just how, where did you get theconfidence?
It's because I've seen theresults.
We've I've seen the results.
(31:34):
That's how I can easily talkabout this stuff and easily feel
confident.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Well, I know, okay, so it might be a sticker shock
for majority of school owners400-plus tuition.
But honestly, like I'm a soccerdad, I have a 12-year-old
playing competitive soccer.
I pay just the club fees, notincluding other fees associated.
I pay $4,000 a year.
That's $300.
(32:08):
And what?
$330, $350 a month without evenbatting an eye, you know right.
So that, honestly, a 400, 450,500 tuition for what taekwondo
does, which does far more thanthan a soccer athlete, is, if
you really think about it, it'snot that unheard of, it
shouldn't be.
But as you said, masterco, thewhole industry has this fixed
(32:28):
mindset of 150, 180, 190 that wedon't even contemplate about.
Hey, our program is worth muchmore than soccer and golf and
water polo.
We do so much more than theseother sports that we should be
charging what we need to becharging, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Here's my theory.
This all started, I think,bless our fathers, but it
started with them, I mean,because of how they were raised,
like my father was raisedpost-Korean War, right, so it
was really, really poor.
So what has happened and I'veactually experienced this is the
(33:09):
race to the bottom oh, theycharge you $150?
We do $140.
And then they hear, oh, they'regoing to do $140?
No, we do $130.
And then you keep going down,and down and down and that
becomes the standard and itpulls the whole industry down,
because we have this bidding warwhen in reality you just stick
(33:30):
to your rate and then, if it'snot a fit, then move on, let
them go where they're going tohave to.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
That is so funny, it's so true.
I mean that's, you're like howmuch did they charge?
Do you remember these callsBefore caller ID?
You're like, bring out yellowpages.
You call those three schools,hi.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
I'm interested in lessons.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Dad, they charge $129 a month.
Okay, we go 109.
You're laughing because you alldid it, so don't even yeah, we
all did it right as kids.
We're like okay, dad, oh yeah,we all did it right as kids
we're like okay, dad, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Well, Masterco, how do you handle objections from
potential parents who says, hey,your tuition is too high.
I know other schools in thearea is less than that.
What is your overcomingobjections to that?
Speaker 2 (34:19):
Well, honestly, I don't do any of ourselves now.
But if I were, then I wouldfirst ask why did you come here
in the first place?
And I always revisit the painpoint.
So, for example, well, theymight say he needs more
discipline.
Okay, well, how much is thatworth to you?
(34:41):
How much is it worth for yourchild to do what they were told
the first time at home?
Would that save you time athome?
Would that save you emotionaldistress?
How much is that worth to you?
And they're like no, I can seethat.
Well, to me, this is that we'renot charging enough.
I mean, I know for me, if Icould pay X amount of dollars
(35:09):
for my daughter to not back talkas much, I will be forking that
out.
But it goes back to revisitingtheir pain point.
Now you might get people comingin.
They're just looking forsomething fun.
With those people, the goal isto uncover a potential pain
point they didn't know about andyou start asking questions how
is she at home, how is he atschool, all those things.
(35:32):
But then, if it just comes downoh, we're just looking for
something fun I would say youknow what?
Maybe we're not a fit, maybethis is not the right place for
you.
I know down the street they'rea little bit less.
You should go check them out.
They might be a better fitbecause ultimately, genuinely, I
just want you to be happy.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Well, I could honestly say there's not going
to be any amount for mynine-year-old daughter to stop
backtalking me, because I triedit and that has no bearing.
She will backtalk me all day,all week.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Even if you give her a hundred bucks.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
When I gave her a hundred.
She backtalks more becauseshe's like oh, I'm getting a
hundred out of this, I should bedoing more of this, so there's
no amount of money, yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
Well, I want to thank you for coming on our podcast
and sharing your insights and Iknow you've been very busy in
the last 20 years and we'vewe've passed ships in the wind
in different events and thingsand and so forth, but I do know
we have a commonality that welove martial arts and we know
the power of what we do canchange a course of a child's
(36:37):
life, and you are.
You are a representative ofthat and to me, the focus of
today's podcast is that be abetter teacher and be a better
influencer to these kids to havethem become better citizens.
And the money will always bethere, absolutely so.
Can you give us a quick previewof I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
I'm sorry to say, by the way.
By the way, masterco is goingto be one of our speakers at our
ASA, marshall Arts Summit 2025in Las Vegas this year in
October.
So I just wanted our audienceand listeners to know that you
guys could see him in person,and this is exactly the topic
that Masterco is going to bediscussing in more detail.
(37:20):
So we want to invite everybodyout here to meet Master Koh in
person, really pick his brain,and we're going to raise our
whole industry up.
So I just want to let ouraudience know about that.
Well, I was going to say he wasgoing to be there.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
And I think the other cool thing about Asah and all
our events is that there's a lotof interaction with our
speakers.
There are a lot of networking.
We're going out, we're going toI know some people are playing
golf and we have some peoplethat are also going to eat
dinner together at some of thedifferent events, and then we
have a mixer going on on Fridaynight too.
(37:56):
So plenty of opportunities.
I think sometimes you willlearn more in the hallways, as
they say, of these eventsbecause you get a chance to kind
of ask a specific question andso forth.
And it's been quite remarkableto see your incredible success
in your town and it's quiteinspiring, and I think that's
(38:16):
one of the reasons I reached outto you to say, hey, you've got
to inspire others to be at theirbest.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Thank, you, sir.
Well, one final question,masako, talking about being in
town, you're in the heartland ofAmerica.
I'm in West Coast, southernCalifornia.
Is there any for coastal schoolowners versus and Master Lee is
Midwest as well any differencein terms of being in the
heartland versus anywhere else?
(38:41):
Is there advantage,disadvantage, or does it not
matter?
Speaker 2 (38:46):
That's a good question.
I would say the feel of a cityis always going to be a little
bit different.
But you know, master Lee, and Iknow the kind of Midwestern
feel, the Midwestern people, themindset.
So I love the Midwest mindset.
People are very nice, but Ithink it just depends on the
(39:06):
pockets too right.
You can go into different areasin your city and they're all
different.
For example, all three of ourlocations, the demographics, or
at least the people, are justdifferent.
It's weird.
It's only 15, 20 minutes awayfrom each other, but with people
in California I don't know whatto say about that, because
(39:29):
we're crazy out here, we'recrazy.
You said it.
You said it.
I know Elk Owner is there, butfor me it's just it would be a
little different to try to run astudio there.
But who knows, I think.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
But I would have to say I just I, I kind of disagree
because I think being incharging the amount that you're
charging in the midwest,considering how conservative the
people in the midwest are andhow skeptical midwesterners are,
very skeptical about things andand you kind of like, blow that
(40:04):
theory out of the water becauseyou produce.
So I think if you use thatformula, whether that be in New
York or whether you do that onthe East Coast or the West Coast
, as long as you are producingwhat you're saying you're going
to do, then people will pay.
In spades.
I have a friend who he doescollege consulting.
To employ him for the year is$12,000 a year, that's a
(40:30):
thousand bucks a month.
And if you want your kid to getto Harvard or Yale or any of
the IVs or whatever, you've gotto follow his formula and you'll
do it and so forth.
And parents like he has awaiting list and he's on the
West coast but he's produced theresult, so people don't say boo
.
So if you follow his formula,you have a great shot of getting
into these places.
(40:50):
And I feel that's the same withwith Dojang.
If you, like you said, if youare producing, and part of your
enrollment conference was allabout like how is he at home?
Is he cleaning up?
And if you're not, then youcan't.
If you're not showing thatlevel of commitment at home,
you're not getting to my nextprogram, as opposed to people
like we will make him better paynow it doesn't.
(41:13):
It doesn't matter what you sayin the office, and I think
you've really hammered thatpoint home and people think, oh
yeah, Master Cole must just be agood business guy.
No, he's a brilliant teacher.
They're missing the point interms of doing that.
So you know, it always bogglesmy mind and there's a lot of
haters out there too.
Anytime someone's doingsuccessful, they're like that
(41:34):
dude, sold out, that dude.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Oh, my goodness, I've heard that many times with all
my competitors.
So my father is still in the he, he lives here, and they talk
to him on the golf course andthey're like, oh, bronston, he,
he, just businessman, he, goodbusinessman, right.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
and I'm like, okay, I guess so I guess that's the way
it is well, none of thosepeople are going to come to asa
because they're not allowed to,because asA is going to be a
positive and reinforcement ofeverything that we're doing.
You know, let's conclude there.
Master Chan Lee, Master BronsonKo, thank you for your time
(42:15):
being on the podcast and to ourlisteners there you have it An
inside look at what it takes tobuild a premium martial arts
brand right from the heartland.
From bold pricing to visionaryleadership.
Master Ko and Master Chan Leeare clearly setting a new
standard in our industry.
I hope you got as much out ofthis show as I did.
(42:36):
If you're inspired to rethinkwhat's possible in your business
, this episode was a masterclassin doing just that.
Thanks for tuning in and we'llcatch you on the next one.
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