June 24, 2025 • 40 mins
ASA Martial Arts Business Summit 2025
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There's a crisis affecting martial arts schools nationwide, but it's not what you might think. The pandemic tested our industry's resilience—we taught through Zoom, improvised training equipment, and found ways to survive against impossible odds. Yet now, with that immediate threat behind us, many schools face a deeper challenge: finding purpose beyond mere survival.
This episode delivers a passionate wake-up call for school owners and instructors in this thought-provoking episode. "If your purpose is to make money, you need to find a better purpose."Â
For schools currently struggling, Tony shares practical strategies—including his recent experience helping stunt performers start a school by renting a neighborhood clubhouse for just $900 monthly. This incremental approach allowed them to build to 50 students before considering a permanent location, demonstrating how starting small can create sustainable growth.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In our seventh episode, we'll dive into why
martial arts schools are dyingand how to save it.
A blunt wake-up call to realitycheck.
Welcome to Black Belt Banter.
The best podcast to help yourmartial arts school increase
profits and generate substantialrevenue.
I'm Jimmy Hong and my co-hostis Master Tony Chung.
(00:24):
Revenue I'm Jimmy Hong and myco-host is Master Tony Chung.
Master Tony is an accomplishedschool owner, generating over $2
million annually with multiplelocations.
He also works in the film andtelevision industry as an actor,
stunt double and fight trainer.
His more recent works includeCobra, kai Will Trent, the Tulsa
King, the Naked Gun Movie andso many more.
(00:44):
Master Tony, welcome back andvery excited to talk about this
topic with you today.
Why martial arts schools aredying, how can we, how can they
save it?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I don't know.
It's a tough question.
It's the same question I askedmyself, because we all have to
create perpetual value all thetime.
It's just like having asuccessful marriage You've got
to continue dating your wife.
I think that the statisticswill say that legacy businesses
they have some peak years andthen they start tailing off.
And I think that it wasinteresting because so many
(01:19):
schools survived COVID.
I know that there was somereally hard situations depending
on where you were in yourmarket, but all in all, that
really was where people reallycut their teeth.
For there's all these times as aschool operator, especially if
you're a grandmaster's kid, yourfather's grandmaster you know
how it is, boy, when I was yourage or this or that dude, our
(01:43):
dads would call us and be like,are you okay?
And I was like I'm hanging inthere.
Dad and my uncles had asked meand so many of the second
generation, third generation,whatever grandmaster kids, we'd
go through this thing.
All instructors, americaninstructors, brazilian jujitsu
guys.
People were teaching jujitsuvirtually through Zoom and
(02:04):
people were grappling a couchcushion stuffed into a hoodie.
How inventive everybody was andwe're just figuring it out and
we worked really hard, but itwas awesome.
That moment for the industrywas a shining moment that we,
every school that survived COVIDsome schools started in COVID.
I can't even imagine that, butall of us if you're listening to
(02:27):
this, chances are you're aschool owner we survived COVID.
That was five years ago, butthat should let you know that
you have what it takes.
It's really.
I have a tendency to benegative, so I don't want you to
get the wrong idea of my tone.
I was listening back to some ofthe episodes and I was like, oh
, and then this one's calledreality check.
(02:47):
So, oh, no, this guy's going tobe real doom and gloom.
So please, I tell my kids I'mbrutal with my kids.
I'm like put your seatbelt on,you'll die.
That's what it's for.
That's why daddy puts aseatbelt on, because I don't
want to die.
It's important to be honestwith yourself, but having said
that, we went through COVID, youcould do anything.
(03:15):
The problem is COVID is fiveyears let's say three years
removed.
We're through COVID.
So now what?
Now it's time to not justsurvive, it's time to thrive.
I've sat in the coach's chairfor dozens of athletes at all
levels and sometimes you got afighter on the other side of the
ring.
It just smacking the crap outof your student.
And your student, your student,comes to you in between rounds
(03:36):
and they're like what do I do,sir?
And I'm like, oh man, justsurvive.
That guy's kicking your ass andI'm like it's hard to sit here.
But just, dude, I get it.
That's tough, so get back inthere and do your best.
And then in between round twoand three, you find out that
guy's human because he got tiredor maybe the girl loses some
(03:56):
steam and my girl starts scoring.
And so in between round two andthree I'm like dang, we
survived, let's try to win thisthing, let's go.
And I think that's where you seea view of championship material
Survival.
Dude, in grappling, if you havesomeone, take your back and you
get into a bad position and youcan somehow survive the
(04:18):
submission and you just workyour way through.
There is something huge thathappens and it's a big
confidence boost.
And the thing is that in COVIDwe had purpose Before COVID.
After COVID it's gotten back tothe.
It's gotten back.
It's when husbands and wivesdate in the engagement phase.
(04:40):
It's and I'm guilty too, I wasdoing laundry, I'm cooking, I'm
like really trying to date.
Nice, my wife and I our firstdate.
I took her flying, and I don'tfly.
I had a friend that was a pilottrainer, so it was our first
date and it was literallydownhill from there that our
dates have been much less thanthat, but we still go dates and
(05:04):
I think that it's important thatduring COVID, nobody counted
their hours Nobody.
It was just it's survival.
I'm just trying to, I'm tryingnot to get knocked out.
And now that you survived COVID,what do you do?
And here's the reality check,the reality check you had
(05:26):
purpose in COVID, we all did.
Now, what's your purpose?
Is your purpose to make money?
Because if your purpose is tomake money, you need to find a
better purpose.
Money will make you more ofwhat you already are.
So if you're not very much of aperson, then you're just going
to be more of that.
If you're an amazing person andyou have a giving heart and you
(05:48):
add value to others, trulyyou'll be more of that.
So I think that, when it comesdown to it, don't get back into
the rhythm of how do I say thisFilling bags with sand is just
filling bags with sand, and ifI'm doing it for money, I'll do
it, and then you pay more and Ican't afford to pay you more
money.
Guys, we're filling bags ofsand and it's just a job.
(06:10):
It's just a job.
And then they'll start cuttingcorners and the sandbags are
going to be less effective andsmaller.
But if we're filling bags ofsand because there's a flood
coming and it's going to killpeople and we have to save the
town, Then it's oh, you don'teven have to pay me, I'm on
mission.
I am going to fill these bagsof sand till my hands bleed.
I'll stay up.
I will not.
I don't need to sleep, I don'tneed to get paid.
(06:32):
I'm just trying to save thetown.
And I think that if we reallysaw how valuable martial arts is
, martial arts is we wouldmetaphorically put people in
headlocks and drag them to blackbelt.
We would tell them I know it'sexpensive, but this is going to
(06:58):
change your kid's life, and Ican say that without being a
dirt bag.
Charge a fair price.
And a fair price doesn't meancheap.
It means equal to the valuethat you're giving them.
But if you're a master and Ihate to say this, so please
don't take this the wrong way Ifyou're overweight and you're
not trained and you're noteloquent and you're not educated
on what matters to yourstudents and you're hiding in
(07:18):
your office and you are notshowing up.
Or if it's just about money andit's about what car you're
driving, or it's about what?
Oh?
Our black belts have niceuniforms.
Nobody gives a crap about whatuniform they wear.
Yes, it needs to be decent, butit shouldn't be everything.
The reality check is this Allof the accoutrement, the plating
(07:44):
, the ambiance of theirrestaurant, it matters less than
the meat and potatoes of whatyou're serving and that is
something a true chef is superproud of of the customer's
dining experience.
And you don't want the ambiance, you don't want the
accoutrement to detract from thetaste of the food, but the food
(08:09):
has to taste good.
So, to answer your questionlargely and specifically, we
have to get back to the basics.
We have to teach martial artsbecause it's about survival.
One in three kids may bephysically attacked at some
point in their life.
There's that self-defenseaspect, but it's more than that.
It's the rise of AI, the riseof machine learning, the rise of
(08:33):
the internet, making the worldmore competitive and smaller.
So creative, problem solving,learning to communicate
effectively, understandingpurpose, unlocking your skill.
When I look at a class of 10kids.
At our schools we have smallclasses on purpose and there's
10 kids that show up.
When my instructors and this ismy purpose, when I get to teach
(08:57):
my instructors that in turnteach their students, I have to
relay that when you're workingwith that student for those
moments or seconds, you have tomotivate them.
They don't want to come toclass.
And if you're bribing them withtickets or some contest to win
a PS5 or whatever, that's cuteand that's awesome and that's
(09:20):
gimmicky, but that is just pay.
You're paying to play.
But if you're driven on purposeand you have the fear of
failure but you also have thepull of success, of true success
, of unlocking some child'spotential, then you're going to
make sure that instructor'sprepared for class.
(09:43):
I don't know what that looksexactly.
I don't know what curriculumyou teach, it doesn't matter.
I don't care what style it is,it doesn't matter if it's in a
warehouse or if it's in yourfreestanding 20,000 square foot
state-of-the-art facility.
When, all is said and done andyou're working out, they have to
sweat mentally, they have tosweat physically.
But when there's that momentwhere you connect with the
(10:04):
student and you're like, hey,survive, and they listen to you
and it works.
And then you get to check backin with them, whether it's a
testing or a privateconversation after class, and
you're like, let's win now.
And you have that moment.
Those moments, strung togetherin a consistent pattern,
(10:27):
culminated at achieving theirblack belt and maybe beyond,
will affect their life forever,not just as a line item on a
resume, but as something thatwill mark them so much.
It will change the way theythink, the way they react, the
way they survive and the waythey thrive and it will give the
way they survive and the waythey thrive and it will give
their life purpose, because, atthe end of the day, we're not
(10:50):
just teaching kicking andpunching and passing guard and
doing a pattern.
We're teaching people how tounlock their potential and I
think that there's a lot of nowmore than ever.
There's people and your matchats cannot be like.
They don't have to be long, butthey can't be corny.
Keep your room clean, kids andlisten to your mom and dad.
(11:12):
No, I tell the kids, I tell theinstructors, and when I
occasionally step on the mat, Itell the kids the truth.
I'm like listen, kids.
And I have to read the room.
The parents have to give mepermission.
I can feel it.
A good teacher can feel it andI'm like listen, kids, your
parents will die for you.
Okay, and I know this because Ihave kids.
I have four kids and I lovethem so much.
(11:34):
I don't like them all the time,they don't like me all the time
, but make no mistake, I wouldlay down and die for my kids.
I could have the best day inthe world, but if I come home
and I find out my kid isstruggling, a parent is only as
happy as their least happy child.
So I want you to know the powerthat you have and I know that
you're tired and I know youdon't want to do this pattern.
(11:55):
Or I know it's hard to passthat guy's guard, or I
understand it's hard to spar andit's scary, but it's not about
sparring, it's not aboutgrappling, it's not about doing
this pattern, it's aboutunlocking your potential.
Johnny, what do you want to bewhen you grow up?
I want to be a doctor.
I know what do you really wantto be Like if you could snap
(12:15):
your fingers and a genie couldgive you a wish.
Out of all things, what do youwant to be?
I want to be a gamer Awesome.
Who's your favorite gamer?
It's Kai Sanat.
Oh, awesome.
If you want to be Kai Sanat,you're going to have to work
your tail off.
I don't know who that is.
I hope he's a nice guy.
But if you want to be aprofessional gamer, it's very
competitive.
It requires discipline.
(12:36):
I'm sure gamers like that guythey probably do 24-hour streams
and that requires discipline.
And if you're going to do that,you're going to have to do a
lot of work.
So imagine learning this form.
It goes into that and it leadsup to that.
When you go to school tomorrow,all of that busy work that you
don't like, it's all part ofthat, because if you can't do
(12:56):
the things you don't like to do,you'll never and I'm serious I
will stop an entire class and Iwill ignore the other nine kids
and recommend my masters to dothe same and say, johnny, if you
can't do that, you're nevergoing to make it, but if you can
, you're going to have the mostawesome journey and we just want
(13:17):
to be a part of it.
I think BlackBit will help youget there.
Let's learn this form and ifpeople cannot deliver, that I
don't know.
People need a personal call toaction.
They don't need a blanketadvertisement.
(13:41):
I'm sorry, but I get reallypassionate and angry because I
don't want my instructors sayingcorny little slogans.
That's what if you watch CobraKai and I know I keep saying it,
but we love Cobra Kai.
That's what the silver dojodoes.
The bad guys they have all thenice equipment and the fancy
school.
But the Johnny Lawrence guy hemay be rough around the edges,
he may be a mess himself, but hegenuinely cared about the
(14:04):
students he taught and he hadhis redemption.
And I believe that many of youon this podcast, you were like
me.
You're not a perfect person.
I'm not perfect.
I make mistakes all the time,but I'm pursuing to unlock my
potential and I want to changelives of others through martial
arts and mine in the process.
(14:24):
And I would implore and beg andinsist that my masters and
instructors do the same everyday.
When you teach class, it's notabout memorizing some dance
moves we call forms or movingaround.
Some schools have these lightgraphite staffs.
You couldn't battle with thatthing.
It's a joke, it's a nice trickand it looks like a cool little
(14:44):
dance.
But at the end of the day, canthey throw a decent punch?
Can they throw a solid kick andare they a good human?
And, most importantly, are theygoing to do something with
their life?
And is martial arts going toplay a role in that?
Because if you just teachkarate or taekwondo or jujitsu,
that's worth $99 a month whenthey feel like it, and you're
(15:07):
going to go out of business.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
What's fascinating is that I've known high
competitive performers, whetherthey're gold, silver, bronze
medalists, olympics or worldchampions, and after their
career was over they opened up aschool and a couple of years
later they closed down.
They couldn't operate, theycouldn't succeed as they did in
(15:32):
their competitive years.
And I know, on the other end ofthe spectrum there are average,
maybe above average, physically, technique-wise, in terms of
martial arts.
But they run the best, highlysuccessful martial arts schools
and it's just fascinating to seethe change in the career in
(15:56):
that point.
And it just goes to say, itjust goes to show that you don't
need to be a highly competitive, accomplished fighter to
succeed in martial arts training.
But having said that, you can't.
If you don't, if you're notgood at techniques and you don't
(16:16):
know how to teach and you can'tcommunicate to the students,
you're in the wrong industry.
It's a guaranteed fail, nomatter what systems you have, no
matter what staffing you have.
If you are the masterinstructor of that school and
you don't have what it takes toopen up and operate a martial
arts school, you're going tofail as well and operate a
(16:42):
martial arts school, you'regoing to fail as well.
So just fascinating how,knowing the industry what goes,
what succeeds?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
and what doesn't.
There's different levels ofsuccess and there's different
aspects of success.
So success could be financial,it could be a number of students
, but it could also be quality.
So there's coaches and mastersthat they have a decent size
school and their business isprofitable, but they have a
decent size school and theirbusiness is profitable, but they
have high level athletes andit's amazing and I think that I
love.
I have quite a few friends thatdo that and I admire them and
(17:06):
that motivates me to try to.
You know, be better.
You could do both.
There's.
There's people like grandmasterRyan Andrzejczyk.
He runs a great martial artprogram and he has high
competitive athletes as well andhe has multiple locations way
more successful than I've everbeen.
He's the man.
So there's all different typesand success is it's whatever you
want it to be.
The goal is not for us todescribe success and you have to
(17:28):
conform to that.
The goal is to listen and knowthat you could.
What is your life to look likeand be happy with that and find
a way.
Personally, I just wanted tocreate quality black belts.
Most schools have one blackbelt class a week.
I wanted to teach black beltclass every day.
I felt that was my specialtyand I wanted a red belt and
(17:49):
above class.
And then I wanted a certifiedfirst degree class and above and
I wanted to offer it every dayand to this day, every one of my
schools they have that everyday there's a class.
Some schools have a third Donand above class only in addition
to the first Don and above, andthen the Red Belt and above,
and that would take half theschedule for the day.
But to just to reiterate,success is whatever you target,
(18:14):
and then comparison kills joy.
So if you have a level ofsuccess, be happy with that,
always continue to try toimprove.
But the reality check is Idon't want you to chase
something that you think isbetter and then you end up
getting there and you're likeman, I messed up.
The grass is not greener on theother side, it's just different
.
It's usually greener where youwater it when it comes to what
(18:35):
you believe in.
You don't get to a point whereyou have a bunch of students but
you're not happy with thequality.
Or you have a group of studentsand you're super proud of them,
but then they have to leave, orthey leave and you don't like
how they leave and where someother athlete coach scalps them
(18:56):
and then they leave your schooland you're like dang, no loyalty
, that's crazy.
And then you're like, just behappy.
Just be happy with whateverhappens.
And I think that it's animportant value exchange.
That's why you should chargewhat you're worth and that's why
you should also believe in whatyou teach.
And somebody was asking me theother day they're like man, I
(19:20):
see these programs and they havethese things and is that what
you need to do?
And I'm like is that what youwant to do?
And they're like no, I don'twant to teach a bunch of little
kids.
And I'm like then, don't teachlittle kids.
And he goes yeah, but it's animportant part of the business,
I hear, and there business, Ihear, and there's benefits to it
.
I said then you got to do it.
I don't know what to tell you.
I think a lot of people haveindecision and in emergency
(19:42):
times like COVID, we didn't havetime to think.
We had no choice, we had to go.
And now we don't have thepressure of survival, but it's
very much the same If you havethe intensity that you need to
survive and you use that topursue a higher level of
optimization and focus.
I think for some of the peoplethat are listening, it happens
(20:04):
to me.
We get distracted.
It's so easy to do well thatwhen it's good enough, you get
complacent, you get lazy andthen you have some friend that's
oh, let's do this, let's dothat, and then you're pursuing
another business or you're doingthis and you lose your focus.
Some of the most successfulpeople I think I can get in
(20:25):
trouble for this, but I don'tknow anything in film.
But sometimes, if you're likeright now in film, there's a guy
named Taylor Sheridan and he isa monster.
He is so successful, he's anincredible writer and this and
that I know.
He started off as an actorsaKing and a lot of hit shows.
(20:59):
And the thing is that sometimesif you're so successful in
something, it doesn't allow youto be successful in other ways.
So if you're too successful atcoaching and being elite level
athletes that you're going tojust go down that pipeline of
training elite level athletesand traveling 14, 16 tournaments
(21:21):
a year, sometimesinternationally, there's no way
your school can work.
You're never there.
And for those that have goodcompetitors but they don't go to
a lot of those tournaments,they have the priority to stay
and work on their business sotheir business will be better.
In martial arts we needOlympians, we need world
champions, we need people doingADCC, but we also need regular
(21:45):
people teaching great qualityprograms, like Bronson Coe, for
example, that he's doing inOklahoma in Olathe and stuff.
He has an amazing program thatsome of these local people are
so fortunate to have these greatteachers that if they focused
on competition they might'vebeen very high level.
(22:05):
But they chose For me.
I wasn't good enough If I was alittle better of a competitor.
I don't know if I'd have athousand students, I'll be
honest with you.
Maybe you know it would havebeen different students.
I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Maybe you know it would have been different.
Practically speaking, a martialarts school is dying because
they just don't have the incometo make rent, payroll wages for
themselves, for yourself.
But they got to that point.
It's not because of one thing,it's not because, oh, they
didn't have enough students.
It could be a various thing.
They might have had leads, buttheir enrollment system was not
(22:41):
great, so those leads didn'tturn into an active student.
They could have had an activestudent, but their classroom
teaching wasn't great, so theyquit after a few months.
You have to diagnose how yougot to that.
Take a hard look at yourself.
You got diagnosed how you gotthere, why you got there, and
(23:02):
use metrics and stats to figureout what is your weak point and
how to improve and plug thathole.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Sure.
Yeah, I know this sounds reallycrazy but to answer your
question, I'm opening up a newlocation and the location that
I'm opening up I'm trying tohelp some stunt people out.
So most stunt people they worksometimes only 20 days a year.
They have very high wages butthey don't work the year round.
The rest of the year they'rehustling to get work, they're
(23:31):
training, they're working onpassion projects.
I met a couple of stunt peoplethat I want to help.
So I said, hey, I'll openanother school, I'd like to make
some more money and I'll helpyou.
So I decided to open the school, but instead of I created it
with nothing.
So basically, I found aneighborhood.
(23:51):
There was a clubhouse.
We rented the clubhouse for$900 a month.
It's first started for 600 amonth for once a week and then I
got part of a second day torent it.
And these stunt people have donemartial arts before.
Obviously, I taught them mysystem, but basically they
started teaching classes.
They're up to 50 students andthe monthly reoccurring revenue
(24:12):
is enough for us to open thelocation.
So they had enough profitsobviously from month one.
From month one it wasprofitable because your overhead
is not very much.
I know it sounds crazy, butsometimes stunt people.
They have to do a gig economyso they can't get a regular job
because they'll get a phone callto be hired on a movie.
They're like you need to jumpon an airplane and be in Texas
tomorrow and they're like, yes,sir, so they can't hold the job.
(24:34):
They either have to own abusiness or they have to do side
hustle jobs that usually aregig economy based and they don't
pay well.
So I want to help these guysout.
And then obviously, I'm in thebusiness of opening more schools
.
So we started from nothing,literally, and they rent this
clubhouse out, so they load thecar up, they set up temporary
(24:59):
martial arts paddles andkickbags.
Not even kickbags, they're tooheavy, it's upstairs at this
neighborhood and they just wordof mouth.
I think it was $500 to sponsorsome events and they did some
small.
You got to do some local events.
You go to a fair day or asoccer day and then you're
having kids break a board.
There's some external marketingevents that you do, but these
guys are basically had builtthis program up and I helped
(25:22):
them do it.
And, long story short, themonthly reoccurring revenue,
with the money generated fromthat and the monthly reoccurring
revenue they're going to beopening.
At that new location that I wastalking about with the publics.
The rent is just about whatthey're grossing now, but that
started from nothing.
Obviously there are going to besome startup costs, but the
(25:45):
expenses at a location are goingto be $15,000 to $20,000 very
easily a month.
And if you start from zerothat's very difficult.
But if you start from 50, youcould literally build it up fast
.
So if you don't, let's say youwant to start a school.
Or let's say you don't havevery much money.
Or let's say you have a staffmember that you believe in but
(26:05):
you don't have the money tostart it.
Start a small program, go to adaycare, rent out a clubhouse,
do that.
I literally just did it wherethese guys did it and I'm
somebody that obviously haveresources.
But you know it's strange, moneydoesn't make money by itself.
Money requires ingenuity andcreativity and execution.
(26:30):
So I think that, yes, it is areal problem.
You're like I don't have anymoney or I'm underfunded.
Just take a step back, take adeep breath.
Your problems will be there.
That's what I tell myinstructors to tell the students
.
I know you may be stressed.
Leave your stress at the door.
It'll be there after class.
If you had a bad day, I couldsee it on you.
(26:50):
Sir, leave it at the door,let's take class and pick it up
on your way out.
I understand that you're inemergency mode.
I understand there's too muchmonth, not enough money.
Maybe your bank account isnegative.
Maybe you're up to youreyeballs in debt.
And then let's put the phonedown to get off of Facebook and
Instagram and seeing all thesometimes fake lives of all of
(27:13):
these people that are just theirlife looks like it's just a
movie, when it's more of atragedy.
I think that you need to,because everybody's everybody,
at different levels, isstruggling.
Come on, I mean, look at thismarket.
It's tough right now.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Well, I go to this barber I've been going to for
years and then just recentlythere was this right next door.
I want to say 1,500, maybe1,400 square foot Taekwondo
school opened up Heck, yeah, Iforgot the name.
And then I'm like, oh, that'sso interesting.
And then six months passes nowit's been about six months and
(27:51):
he's barely teaching.
There's not enough.
Yeah, it's very tough.
There's not enough studentsthere ongoing.
I know that rent is low becausethe shopping center is not in a
high rent area, but there's alsonot a lot of foot traffic
visibility either, and I couldjust see the writing on the wall
.
It maybe lasts a year or two ifthat.
(28:13):
And it's just.
I don't know how his classesare.
I don't know.
I never went in.
But these are the type ofschools that are just gonna open
and shut.
That we're talking about andit's.
I wish him all the luck, buthe's gotta know, and these
(28:34):
schools gotta have to know.
You can't just open a school,not do anything, no marketing,
and then expect to have 200students paying average student
value.
What's your number one advice,master Tony?
If you're in a situation likethat, what do they need to do
immediately?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Okay, there was a point where I was so down and
out and we were financiallystrapped that my date night was.
We were on the back porch ofour apartment at the time and I
was eating a peanut butter andjelly sandwich with my wife and
I'm like dinner is served and mywife she's awesome, and you got
(29:16):
a little candle and stuff andwe've had nice dinners.
We had that first date of ourson it where I went flying and
then, years and years into ourmarriage, I'm broke and I'm not
broken, but I'm broke and you'reon rock bottom and it's okay.
This is crazy and you know what?
(29:37):
That's fine.
Hey, you know what?
I'm really struggling right nowand I have no students.
But if you have this attitudewhere you're doom and gloom and
you have this victim mindset of,oh, like Eeyore, I met school
owners like that and I visitedthem and sometimes I meet them I
don't know them well enough,but I'm like dude, you look like
(29:59):
you look like bad and it's sadto see, but you need to stay
positive.
Oh my gosh, dude, sometimes youhave to laugh.
You have to just know that.
Hey, man, this is just a shittycircumstance.
I'm just struggling right nowand you need to be put in a hard
(30:21):
situation and you need to makelight happen with positivity.
And you have to be positive.
And I know there's a story thatI heard a long time ago and I
know we're going long, but Iwould tell that guy the story.
So there's two guys, or there'sthis guy, it's his dad, and
he's got two kids, and one kidis an optimist and the other one
(30:44):
is a pessimist.
And the optimist is superpositive, always happy, and the
pessimist is super negative.
And let's say, these kids areeight years old and then they go
to school, they're in thesecond grade or so, and the dad
decides to flip the script.
So in the optimist son's roomthat's super positive he puts a
bunch of horse manure,fertilizer from Home Depot or
(31:06):
something, bags of it all theway.
He rips the bags open and thenin the other kid's room he fills
it from floor to ceiling withtoys.
He literally maxes out the roomwith all these toys.
And the kids come home fromschool they're like hi, dad, hey
, and then they go to theirrooms and they shut the door and
then the dad is listening for aresponse because he hopes to
(31:28):
hear the optimist son finallydisplay some sadness and the
pessimist son finally be happy,or a glimpse of happiness, and
all of a sudden you hear thedoor shut and the pessimist I'm
sorry the negative kid he comesout of his room and he's dad and
he goes.
Yeah, yes, son, and he goes.
(31:49):
There's tons of toys in my room.
And he goes aunt, aunt, and hegoes.
It's the worst day ever.
It's all.
The kids in the neighborhoodare going to be so jealous of me
and I don't even know what I'mgoing to do.
Who needs all these toys?
And then a lot of the packagingis so hard to open up and the
(32:11):
packages I open, some of themneed batteries.
I have no batteries.
It's the worst.
And the dad's like got it, okay, son.
And then he starts hearing allthis hooping and hollering
behind the door of the Optimusson and he's in there with all
that fertilizer and he knocks onthe door and he hears like all
this hooping and hollering andall this noise.
And he's in there with all thatfertilizer and he knocks on the
door and he hears all thishooping and hollering and all
this noise and he opens the door.
He could barely open the doorand there is shit everywhere.
There is all the fertilizer isspread all over the place and
(32:34):
the son is diving through it.
He's squirting in his hands,he's got it in his hair and he's
son, what are you doing?
And the son's dad?
Look at all this horseshit.
There's bound to be a pony inhere somewhere and that's the
end of the story.
And the thing is that sometimesyou could give people money, you
(32:56):
could give them a thousandstudents, you could give him
four locations, an elite staffof people, and some people are
just going to be negative andsad, and usually those people
are found in one school with nostudents.
And you could take somebodywith no students and one school
(33:18):
in a bad location.
And if they're, if they havethe right attitude, they don't
have to always be positive, butyou got to put on your face and
you got to find some renewablesource of energy.
I don't care if you get aself-help guru or you go to
church or whatever makes youtick, anything and everything.
I think it's important for youto have purpose, because if
(33:40):
you're looking for something tobe negative and sad about, if
you're looking for something tobe negative and sad about, you
shouldn't be teaching people.
People need hope, people needmotivation, they need optimism,
and you know what people need.
People need to teach their kidsthat, because you know what,
even though I'm a dad and I dothis for thousands of people, I
(34:01):
need people to do that for mykids, because nobody is a
prophet in their own land.
I need great teachers andsoccer coaches and wrestling
coaches to take interest in mykids, to hold my daughter's hand
and bring her through hardtimes.
I need my kids and you knowwhat.
I'll sell my house.
I'll eat peanut butter andjelly sandwiches.
(34:21):
I will have less of a life.
I'll go out to eat less ifsomebody can help my kid tick
that way, and that's what we doin martial arts.
It's not about what you teach,but it's how you teach.
It's not about what you say,it's how you say when you say it
.
You know who you say it to atthe right time.
(34:42):
Timing is everything and Ithink that if you have this
tragedy of a situation whereyou're this dying person on the
ground off the Appalachian Trailand if you were to zoom out and
see how close you were tosurvival, you would not give up,
because it's not money that youneed.
(35:03):
You might need some money, butthat's not the defining factor.
The defining factor is you needto have purpose, and I don't
know what that is for you.
You know what I mean.
For me, I go to church and Iread a lot and I stay motivated.
I listen to podcasts and I liketo have fun.
I like to have fun.
I want my students to have fun.
I want my instructors to laugh,because I know there's too much
(35:25):
month, not enough money.
Sometimes, even if you have fourschools, it's too much month.
Sometimes, even if you grosshundreds of thousands of dollars
a month.
Some months are tough and moneyit greases the wheels of life,
but it doesn't solve all yourproblems.
Actually, what solves yourproblems is purpose, and martial
(35:46):
arts is not the best businessin the world, but if purpose was
a commodity like cash, we're inthe most lucrative industry
you'll find, because we can helppeople.
It doesn't matter what theirrace is, it doesn't matter what
their age is.
It doesn't matter what theirage is, it doesn't matter what
their faith is.
We can help anybody.
(36:09):
I have a taekwondo school.
It's literally kicking andpunching.
We have kids that have come inand trained with wheelchairs.
You know how crazy that is.
We have people with walkers andwe say, just punch, and it is
encouraging and it's awesome,and it's amazing.
We have grandparents that train, we have people, and I'm not
unique.
There's jujitsu schools andkarate schools that do way more
(36:30):
impressive things.
But having said that, I thinkthat if I were to talk to that
school owner, I would implorethem and beg them to unlock
their potential, because theyhave this cloud over their head
and maybe they just have avictim mentality.
It's not that bad and you'rebetter than that.
Maybe you should rip off thedecals, the corny slogans off
(36:56):
your walls and start living it,because it doesn't matter what
the gift wrapping is.
At the end of the day, yourmartial arts school will only
thrive if, when you open up whatyour school offers, it is
life-changing.
And you can't just be superpessimistic.
I feel you need to be realisticand this is the reality check.
(37:16):
But the reality is you need tobe an optimist.
I think you need to be adreamer, you need to be an
encourager and you need to knowthat sometimes you just need one
student to come through thedoor, over-deliver, and they'll
bring their friend and they'llbring their friends and, foot
over foot, step over step,you'll literally make your way
out of the hole.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Awesome Pastor, tony Awesome, just inspirational.
I hope our listeners just gotmotivated by this episode and
this podcast.
Let's conclude here.
If you are enjoying our show,go ahead and rate and review our
podcast or YouTube channel.
Our goal is to make our show assuccessful as possible and your
(38:03):
review will help us achievethat.
Have a great week, everyone,and I look forward to our next
episode.
In our seventh episode, we'll dive into why
martial arts schools are dyingand how to save it.
A blunt wake-up call to realitycheck.
Welcome to Black Belt Banter.
The best podcast to help yourmartial arts school increase
profits and generate substantialrevenue.
I'm Jimmy Hong and my co-hostis Master Tony Chung.
(00:24):
Revenue I'm Jimmy Hong and myco-host is Master Tony Chung.
Master Tony is an accomplishedschool owner, generating over $2
million annually with multiplelocations.
He also works in the film andtelevision industry as an actor,
stunt double and fight trainer.
His more recent works includeCobra, kai Will Trent, the Tulsa
King, the Naked Gun Movie andso many more.
(00:44):
Master Tony, welcome back andvery excited to talk about this
topic with you today.
Why martial arts schools aredying, how can we, how can they
save it?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I don't know.
It's a tough question.
It's the same question I askedmyself, because we all have to
create perpetual value all thetime.
It's just like having asuccessful marriage You've got
to continue dating your wife.
I think that the statisticswill say that legacy businesses
they have some peak years andthen they start tailing off.
And I think that it wasinteresting because so many
(01:19):
schools survived COVID.
I know that there was somereally hard situations depending
on where you were in yourmarket, but all in all, that
really was where people reallycut their teeth.
For there's all these times as aschool operator, especially if
you're a grandmaster's kid, yourfather's grandmaster you know
how it is, boy, when I was yourage or this or that dude, our
(01:43):
dads would call us and be like,are you okay?
And I was like I'm hanging inthere.
Dad and my uncles had asked meand so many of the second
generation, third generation,whatever grandmaster kids, we'd
go through this thing.
All instructors, americaninstructors, brazilian jujitsu
guys.
People were teaching jujitsuvirtually through Zoom and
(02:04):
people were grappling a couchcushion stuffed into a hoodie.
How inventive everybody was andwe're just figuring it out and
we worked really hard, but itwas awesome.
That moment for the industrywas a shining moment that we,
every school that survived COVIDsome schools started in COVID.
I can't even imagine that, butall of us if you're listening to
(02:27):
this, chances are you're aschool owner we survived COVID.
That was five years ago, butthat should let you know that
you have what it takes.
It's really.
I have a tendency to benegative, so I don't want you to
get the wrong idea of my tone.
I was listening back to some ofthe episodes and I was like, oh
, and then this one's calledreality check.
(02:47):
So, oh, no, this guy's going tobe real doom and gloom.
So please, I tell my kids I'mbrutal with my kids.
I'm like put your seatbelt on,you'll die.
That's what it's for.
That's why daddy puts aseatbelt on, because I don't
want to die.
It's important to be honestwith yourself, but having said
that, we went through COVID, youcould do anything.
(03:15):
The problem is COVID is fiveyears let's say three years
removed.
We're through COVID.
So now what?
Now it's time to not justsurvive, it's time to thrive.
I've sat in the coach's chairfor dozens of athletes at all
levels and sometimes you got afighter on the other side of the
ring.
It just smacking the crap outof your student.
And your student, your student,comes to you in between rounds
(03:36):
and they're like what do I do,sir?
And I'm like, oh man, justsurvive.
That guy's kicking your ass andI'm like it's hard to sit here.
But just, dude, I get it.
That's tough, so get back inthere and do your best.
And then in between round twoand three, you find out that
guy's human because he got tiredor maybe the girl loses some
(03:56):
steam and my girl starts scoring.
And so in between round two andthree I'm like dang, we
survived, let's try to win thisthing, let's go.
And I think that's where you seea view of championship material
Survival.
Dude, in grappling, if you havesomeone, take your back and you
get into a bad position and youcan somehow survive the
(04:18):
submission and you just workyour way through.
There is something huge thathappens and it's a big
confidence boost.
And the thing is that in COVIDwe had purpose Before COVID.
After COVID it's gotten back tothe.
It's gotten back.
It's when husbands and wivesdate in the engagement phase.
(04:40):
It's and I'm guilty too, I wasdoing laundry, I'm cooking, I'm
like really trying to date.
Nice, my wife and I our firstdate.
I took her flying, and I don'tfly.
I had a friend that was a pilottrainer, so it was our first
date and it was literallydownhill from there that our
dates have been much less thanthat, but we still go dates and
(05:04):
I think that it's important thatduring COVID, nobody counted
their hours Nobody.
It was just it's survival.
I'm just trying to, I'm tryingnot to get knocked out.
And now that you survived COVID,what do you do?
And here's the reality check,the reality check you had
(05:26):
purpose in COVID, we all did.
Now, what's your purpose?
Is your purpose to make money?
Because if your purpose is tomake money, you need to find a
better purpose.
Money will make you more ofwhat you already are.
So if you're not very much of aperson, then you're just going
to be more of that.
If you're an amazing person andyou have a giving heart and you
(05:48):
add value to others, trulyyou'll be more of that.
So I think that, when it comesdown to it, don't get back into
the rhythm of how do I say thisFilling bags with sand is just
filling bags with sand, and ifI'm doing it for money, I'll do
it, and then you pay more and Ican't afford to pay you more
money.
Guys, we're filling bags ofsand and it's just a job.
(06:10):
It's just a job.
And then they'll start cuttingcorners and the sandbags are
going to be less effective andsmaller.
But if we're filling bags ofsand because there's a flood
coming and it's going to killpeople and we have to save the
town, Then it's oh, you don'teven have to pay me, I'm on
mission.
I am going to fill these bagsof sand till my hands bleed.
I'll stay up.
I will not.
I don't need to sleep, I don'tneed to get paid.
(06:32):
I'm just trying to save thetown.
And I think that if we reallysaw how valuable martial arts is
, martial arts is we wouldmetaphorically put people in
headlocks and drag them to blackbelt.
We would tell them I know it'sexpensive, but this is going to
(06:58):
change your kid's life, and Ican say that without being a
dirt bag.
Charge a fair price.
And a fair price doesn't meancheap.
It means equal to the valuethat you're giving them.
But if you're a master and Ihate to say this, so please
don't take this the wrong way Ifyou're overweight and you're
not trained and you're noteloquent and you're not educated
on what matters to yourstudents and you're hiding in
(07:18):
your office and you are notshowing up.
Or if it's just about money andit's about what car you're
driving, or it's about what?
Oh?
Our black belts have niceuniforms.
Nobody gives a crap about whatuniform they wear.
Yes, it needs to be decent, butit shouldn't be everything.
The reality check is this Allof the accoutrement, the plating
(07:44):
, the ambiance of theirrestaurant, it matters less than
the meat and potatoes of whatyou're serving and that is
something a true chef is superproud of of the customer's
dining experience.
And you don't want the ambiance, you don't want the
accoutrement to detract from thetaste of the food, but the food
(08:09):
has to taste good.
So, to answer your questionlargely and specifically, we
have to get back to the basics.
We have to teach martial artsbecause it's about survival.
One in three kids may bephysically attacked at some
point in their life.
There's that self-defenseaspect, but it's more than that.
It's the rise of AI, the riseof machine learning, the rise of
(08:33):
the internet, making the worldmore competitive and smaller.
So creative, problem solving,learning to communicate
effectively, understandingpurpose, unlocking your skill.
When I look at a class of 10kids.
At our schools we have smallclasses on purpose and there's
10 kids that show up.
When my instructors and this ismy purpose, when I get to teach
(08:57):
my instructors that in turnteach their students, I have to
relay that when you're workingwith that student for those
moments or seconds, you have tomotivate them.
They don't want to come toclass.
And if you're bribing them withtickets or some contest to win
a PS5 or whatever, that's cuteand that's awesome and that's
(09:20):
gimmicky, but that is just pay.
You're paying to play.
But if you're driven on purposeand you have the fear of
failure but you also have thepull of success, of true success
, of unlocking some child'spotential, then you're going to
make sure that instructor'sprepared for class.
(09:43):
I don't know what that looksexactly.
I don't know what curriculumyou teach, it doesn't matter.
I don't care what style it is,it doesn't matter if it's in a
warehouse or if it's in yourfreestanding 20,000 square foot
state-of-the-art facility.
When, all is said and done andyou're working out, they have to
sweat mentally, they have tosweat physically.
But when there's that momentwhere you connect with the
(10:04):
student and you're like, hey,survive, and they listen to you
and it works.
And then you get to check backin with them, whether it's a
testing or a privateconversation after class, and
you're like, let's win now.
And you have that moment.
Those moments, strung togetherin a consistent pattern,
(10:27):
culminated at achieving theirblack belt and maybe beyond,
will affect their life forever,not just as a line item on a
resume, but as something thatwill mark them so much.
It will change the way theythink, the way they react, the
way they survive and the waythey thrive and it will give the
way they survive and the waythey thrive and it will give
their life purpose, because, atthe end of the day, we're not
(10:50):
just teaching kicking andpunching and passing guard and
doing a pattern.
We're teaching people how tounlock their potential and I
think that there's a lot of nowmore than ever.
There's people and your matchats cannot be like.
They don't have to be long, butthey can't be corny.
Keep your room clean, kids andlisten to your mom and dad.
(11:12):
No, I tell the kids, I tell theinstructors, and when I
occasionally step on the mat, Itell the kids the truth.
I'm like listen, kids.
And I have to read the room.
The parents have to give mepermission.
I can feel it.
A good teacher can feel it andI'm like listen, kids, your
parents will die for you.
Okay, and I know this because Ihave kids.
I have four kids and I lovethem so much.
(11:34):
I don't like them all the time,they don't like me all the time
, but make no mistake, I wouldlay down and die for my kids.
I could have the best day inthe world, but if I come home
and I find out my kid isstruggling, a parent is only as
happy as their least happy child.
So I want you to know the powerthat you have and I know that
you're tired and I know youdon't want to do this pattern.
(11:55):
Or I know it's hard to passthat guy's guard, or I
understand it's hard to spar andit's scary, but it's not about
sparring, it's not aboutgrappling, it's not about doing
this pattern, it's aboutunlocking your potential.
Johnny, what do you want to bewhen you grow up?
I want to be a doctor.
I know what do you really wantto be Like if you could snap
(12:15):
your fingers and a genie couldgive you a wish.
Out of all things, what do youwant to be?
I want to be a gamer Awesome.
Who's your favorite gamer?
It's Kai Sanat.
Oh, awesome.
If you want to be Kai Sanat,you're going to have to work
your tail off.
I don't know who that is.
I hope he's a nice guy.
But if you want to be aprofessional gamer, it's very
competitive.
It requires discipline.
(12:36):
I'm sure gamers like that guythey probably do 24-hour streams
and that requires discipline.
And if you're going to do that,you're going to have to do a
lot of work.
So imagine learning this form.
It goes into that and it leadsup to that.
When you go to school tomorrow,all of that busy work that you
don't like, it's all part ofthat, because if you can't do
(12:56):
the things you don't like to do,you'll never and I'm serious I
will stop an entire class and Iwill ignore the other nine kids
and recommend my masters to dothe same and say, johnny, if you
can't do that, you're nevergoing to make it, but if you can
, you're going to have the mostawesome journey and we just want
(13:17):
to be a part of it.
I think BlackBit will help youget there.
Let's learn this form and ifpeople cannot deliver, that I
don't know.
People need a personal call toaction.
They don't need a blanketadvertisement.
(13:41):
I'm sorry, but I get reallypassionate and angry because I
don't want my instructors sayingcorny little slogans.
That's what if you watch CobraKai and I know I keep saying it,
but we love Cobra Kai.
That's what the silver dojodoes.
The bad guys they have all thenice equipment and the fancy
school.
But the Johnny Lawrence guy hemay be rough around the edges,
he may be a mess himself, but hegenuinely cared about the
(14:04):
students he taught and he hadhis redemption.
And I believe that many of youon this podcast, you were like
me.
You're not a perfect person.
I'm not perfect.
I make mistakes all the time,but I'm pursuing to unlock my
potential and I want to changelives of others through martial
arts and mine in the process.
(14:24):
And I would implore and beg andinsist that my masters and
instructors do the same everyday.
When you teach class, it's notabout memorizing some dance
moves we call forms or movingaround.
Some schools have these lightgraphite staffs.
You couldn't battle with thatthing.
It's a joke, it's a nice trickand it looks like a cool little
(14:44):
dance.
But at the end of the day, canthey throw a decent punch?
Can they throw a solid kick andare they a good human?
And, most importantly, are theygoing to do something with
their life?
And is martial arts going toplay a role in that?
Because if you just teachkarate or taekwondo or jujitsu,
that's worth $99 a month whenthey feel like it, and you're
(15:07):
going to go out of business.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
What's fascinating is that I've known high
competitive performers, whetherthey're gold, silver, bronze
medalists, olympics or worldchampions, and after their
career was over they opened up aschool and a couple of years
later they closed down.
They couldn't operate, theycouldn't succeed as they did in
(15:32):
their competitive years.
And I know, on the other end ofthe spectrum there are average,
maybe above average, physically, technique-wise, in terms of
martial arts.
But they run the best, highlysuccessful martial arts schools
and it's just fascinating to seethe change in the career in
(15:56):
that point.
And it just goes to say, itjust goes to show that you don't
need to be a highly competitive, accomplished fighter to
succeed in martial arts training.
But having said that, you can't.
If you don't, if you're notgood at techniques and you don't
(16:16):
know how to teach and you can'tcommunicate to the students,
you're in the wrong industry.
It's a guaranteed fail, nomatter what systems you have, no
matter what staffing you have.
If you are the masterinstructor of that school and
you don't have what it takes toopen up and operate a martial
arts school, you're going tofail as well and operate a
(16:42):
martial arts school, you'regoing to fail as well.
So just fascinating how,knowing the industry what goes,
what succeeds?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
and what doesn't.
There's different levels ofsuccess and there's different
aspects of success.
So success could be financial,it could be a number of students
, but it could also be quality.
So there's coaches and mastersthat they have a decent size
school and their business isprofitable, but they have a
decent size school and theirbusiness is profitable, but they
have high level athletes andit's amazing and I think that I
love.
I have quite a few friends thatdo that and I admire them and
(17:06):
that motivates me to try to.
You know, be better.
You could do both.
There's.
There's people like grandmasterRyan Andrzejczyk.
He runs a great martial artprogram and he has high
competitive athletes as well andhe has multiple locations way
more successful than I've everbeen.
He's the man.
So there's all different typesand success is it's whatever you
want it to be.
The goal is not for us todescribe success and you have to
(17:28):
conform to that.
The goal is to listen and knowthat you could.
What is your life to look likeand be happy with that and find
a way.
Personally, I just wanted tocreate quality black belts.
Most schools have one blackbelt class a week.
I wanted to teach black beltclass every day.
I felt that was my specialtyand I wanted a red belt and
(17:49):
above class.
And then I wanted a certifiedfirst degree class and above and
I wanted to offer it every dayand to this day, every one of my
schools they have that everyday there's a class.
Some schools have a third Donand above class only in addition
to the first Don and above, andthen the Red Belt and above,
and that would take half theschedule for the day.
But to just to reiterate,success is whatever you target,
(18:14):
and then comparison kills joy.
So if you have a level ofsuccess, be happy with that,
always continue to try toimprove.
But the reality check is Idon't want you to chase
something that you think isbetter and then you end up
getting there and you're likeman, I messed up.
The grass is not greener on theother side, it's just different
.
It's usually greener where youwater it when it comes to what
(18:35):
you believe in.
You don't get to a point whereyou have a bunch of students but
you're not happy with thequality.
Or you have a group of studentsand you're super proud of them,
but then they have to leave, orthey leave and you don't like
how they leave and where someother athlete coach scalps them
(18:56):
and then they leave your schooland you're like dang, no loyalty
, that's crazy.
And then you're like, just behappy.
Just be happy with whateverhappens.
And I think that it's animportant value exchange.
That's why you should chargewhat you're worth and that's why
you should also believe in whatyou teach.
And somebody was asking me theother day they're like man, I
(19:20):
see these programs and they havethese things and is that what
you need to do?
And I'm like is that what youwant to do?
And they're like no, I don'twant to teach a bunch of little
kids.
And I'm like then, don't teachlittle kids.
And he goes yeah, but it's animportant part of the business,
I hear, and there business, Ihear, and there's benefits to it
.
I said then you got to do it.
I don't know what to tell you.
I think a lot of people haveindecision and in emergency
(19:42):
times like COVID, we didn't havetime to think.
We had no choice, we had to go.
And now we don't have thepressure of survival, but it's
very much the same If you havethe intensity that you need to
survive and you use that topursue a higher level of
optimization and focus.
I think for some of the peoplethat are listening, it happens
(20:04):
to me.
We get distracted.
It's so easy to do well thatwhen it's good enough, you get
complacent, you get lazy andthen you have some friend that's
oh, let's do this, let's dothat, and then you're pursuing
another business or you're doingthis and you lose your focus.
Some of the most successfulpeople I think I can get in
(20:25):
trouble for this, but I don'tknow anything in film.
But sometimes, if you're likeright now in film, there's a guy
named Taylor Sheridan and he isa monster.
He is so successful, he's anincredible writer and this and
that I know.
He started off as an actorsaKing and a lot of hit shows.
(20:59):
And the thing is that sometimesif you're so successful in
something, it doesn't allow youto be successful in other ways.
So if you're too successful atcoaching and being elite level
athletes that you're going tojust go down that pipeline of
training elite level athletesand traveling 14, 16 tournaments
(21:21):
a year, sometimesinternationally, there's no way
your school can work.
You're never there.
And for those that have goodcompetitors but they don't go to
a lot of those tournaments,they have the priority to stay
and work on their business sotheir business will be better.
In martial arts we needOlympians, we need world
champions, we need people doingADCC, but we also need regular
(21:45):
people teaching great qualityprograms, like Bronson Coe, for
example, that he's doing inOklahoma in Olathe and stuff.
He has an amazing program thatsome of these local people are
so fortunate to have these greatteachers that if they focused
on competition they might'vebeen very high level.
(22:05):
But they chose For me.
I wasn't good enough If I was alittle better of a competitor.
I don't know if I'd have athousand students, I'll be
honest with you.
Maybe you know it would havebeen different students.
I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Maybe you know it would have been different.
Practically speaking, a martialarts school is dying because
they just don't have the incometo make rent, payroll wages for
themselves, for yourself.
But they got to that point.
It's not because of one thing,it's not because, oh, they
didn't have enough students.
It could be a various thing.
They might have had leads, buttheir enrollment system was not
(22:41):
great, so those leads didn'tturn into an active student.
They could have had an activestudent, but their classroom
teaching wasn't great, so theyquit after a few months.
You have to diagnose how yougot to that.
Take a hard look at yourself.
You got diagnosed how you gotthere, why you got there, and
(23:02):
use metrics and stats to figureout what is your weak point and
how to improve and plug thathole.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Sure.
Yeah, I know this sounds reallycrazy but to answer your
question, I'm opening up a newlocation and the location that
I'm opening up I'm trying tohelp some stunt people out.
So most stunt people they worksometimes only 20 days a year.
They have very high wages butthey don't work the year round.
The rest of the year they'rehustling to get work, they're
(23:31):
training, they're working onpassion projects.
I met a couple of stunt peoplethat I want to help.
So I said, hey, I'll openanother school, I'd like to make
some more money and I'll helpyou.
So I decided to open the school, but instead of I created it
with nothing.
So basically, I found aneighborhood.
(23:51):
There was a clubhouse.
We rented the clubhouse for$900 a month.
It's first started for 600 amonth for once a week and then I
got part of a second day torent it.
And these stunt people have donemartial arts before.
Obviously, I taught them mysystem, but basically they
started teaching classes.
They're up to 50 students andthe monthly reoccurring revenue
(24:12):
is enough for us to open thelocation.
So they had enough profitsobviously from month one.
From month one it wasprofitable because your overhead
is not very much.
I know it sounds crazy, butsometimes stunt people.
They have to do a gig economyso they can't get a regular job
because they'll get a phone callto be hired on a movie.
They're like you need to jumpon an airplane and be in Texas
tomorrow and they're like, yes,sir, so they can't hold the job.
(24:34):
They either have to own abusiness or they have to do side
hustle jobs that usually aregig economy based and they don't
pay well.
So I want to help these guysout.
And then obviously, I'm in thebusiness of opening more schools
.
So we started from nothing,literally, and they rent this
clubhouse out, so they load thecar up, they set up temporary
(24:59):
martial arts paddles andkickbags.
Not even kickbags, they're tooheavy, it's upstairs at this
neighborhood and they just wordof mouth.
I think it was $500 to sponsorsome events and they did some
small.
You got to do some local events.
You go to a fair day or asoccer day and then you're
having kids break a board.
There's some external marketingevents that you do, but these
guys are basically had builtthis program up and I helped
(25:22):
them do it.
And, long story short, themonthly reoccurring revenue,
with the money generated fromthat and the monthly reoccurring
revenue they're going to beopening.
At that new location that I wastalking about with the publics.
The rent is just about whatthey're grossing now, but that
started from nothing.
Obviously there are going to besome startup costs, but the
(25:45):
expenses at a location are goingto be $15,000 to $20,000 very
easily a month.
And if you start from zerothat's very difficult.
But if you start from 50, youcould literally build it up fast
.
So if you don't, let's say youwant to start a school.
Or let's say you don't havevery much money.
Or let's say you have a staffmember that you believe in but
(26:05):
you don't have the money tostart it.
Start a small program, go to adaycare, rent out a clubhouse,
do that.
I literally just did it wherethese guys did it and I'm
somebody that obviously haveresources.
But you know it's strange, moneydoesn't make money by itself.
Money requires ingenuity andcreativity and execution.
(26:30):
So I think that, yes, it is areal problem.
You're like I don't have anymoney or I'm underfunded.
Just take a step back, take adeep breath.
Your problems will be there.
That's what I tell myinstructors to tell the students
.
I know you may be stressed.
Leave your stress at the door.
It'll be there after class.
If you had a bad day, I couldsee it on you.
(26:50):
Sir, leave it at the door,let's take class and pick it up
on your way out.
I understand that you're inemergency mode.
I understand there's too muchmonth, not enough money.
Maybe your bank account isnegative.
Maybe you're up to youreyeballs in debt.
And then let's put the phonedown to get off of Facebook and
Instagram and seeing all thesometimes fake lives of all of
(27:13):
these people that are just theirlife looks like it's just a
movie, when it's more of atragedy.
I think that you need to,because everybody's everybody,
at different levels, isstruggling.
Come on, I mean, look at thismarket.
It's tough right now.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Well, I go to this barber I've been going to for
years and then just recentlythere was this right next door.
I want to say 1,500, maybe1,400 square foot Taekwondo
school opened up Heck, yeah, Iforgot the name.
And then I'm like, oh, that'sso interesting.
And then six months passes nowit's been about six months and
(27:51):
he's barely teaching.
There's not enough.
Yeah, it's very tough.
There's not enough studentsthere ongoing.
I know that rent is low becausethe shopping center is not in a
high rent area, but there's alsonot a lot of foot traffic
visibility either, and I couldjust see the writing on the wall
.
It maybe lasts a year or two ifthat.
(28:13):
And it's just.
I don't know how his classesare.
I don't know.
I never went in.
But these are the type ofschools that are just gonna open
and shut.
That we're talking about andit's.
I wish him all the luck, buthe's gotta know, and these
(28:34):
schools gotta have to know.
You can't just open a school,not do anything, no marketing,
and then expect to have 200students paying average student
value.
What's your number one advice,master Tony?
If you're in a situation likethat, what do they need to do
immediately?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Okay, there was a point where I was so down and
out and we were financiallystrapped that my date night was.
We were on the back porch ofour apartment at the time and I
was eating a peanut butter andjelly sandwich with my wife and
I'm like dinner is served and mywife she's awesome, and you got
(29:16):
a little candle and stuff andwe've had nice dinners.
We had that first date of ourson it where I went flying and
then, years and years into ourmarriage, I'm broke and I'm not
broken, but I'm broke and you'reon rock bottom and it's okay.
This is crazy and you know what?
(29:37):
That's fine.
Hey, you know what?
I'm really struggling right nowand I have no students.
But if you have this attitudewhere you're doom and gloom and
you have this victim mindset of,oh, like Eeyore, I met school
owners like that and I visitedthem and sometimes I meet them I
don't know them well enough,but I'm like dude, you look like
(29:59):
you look like bad and it's sadto see, but you need to stay
positive.
Oh my gosh, dude, sometimes youhave to laugh.
You have to just know that.
Hey, man, this is just a shittycircumstance.
I'm just struggling right nowand you need to be put in a hard
(30:21):
situation and you need to makelight happen with positivity.
And you have to be positive.
And I know there's a story thatI heard a long time ago and I
know we're going long, but Iwould tell that guy the story.
So there's two guys, or there'sthis guy, it's his dad, and
he's got two kids, and one kidis an optimist and the other one
(30:44):
is a pessimist.
And the optimist is superpositive, always happy, and the
pessimist is super negative.
And let's say, these kids areeight years old and then they go
to school, they're in thesecond grade or so, and the dad
decides to flip the script.
So in the optimist son's roomthat's super positive he puts a
bunch of horse manure,fertilizer from Home Depot or
(31:06):
something, bags of it all theway.
He rips the bags open and thenin the other kid's room he fills
it from floor to ceiling withtoys.
He literally maxes out the roomwith all these toys.
And the kids come home fromschool they're like hi, dad, hey
, and then they go to theirrooms and they shut the door and
then the dad is listening for aresponse because he hopes to
(31:28):
hear the optimist son finallydisplay some sadness and the
pessimist son finally be happy,or a glimpse of happiness, and
all of a sudden you hear thedoor shut and the pessimist I'm
sorry the negative kid he comesout of his room and he's dad and
he goes.
Yeah, yes, son, and he goes.
(31:49):
There's tons of toys in my room.
And he goes aunt, aunt, and hegoes.
It's the worst day ever.
It's all.
The kids in the neighborhoodare going to be so jealous of me
and I don't even know what I'mgoing to do.
Who needs all these toys?
And then a lot of the packagingis so hard to open up and the
(32:11):
packages I open, some of themneed batteries.
I have no batteries.
It's the worst.
And the dad's like got it, okay, son.
And then he starts hearing allthis hooping and hollering
behind the door of the Optimusson and he's in there with all
that fertilizer and he knocks onthe door and he hears like all
this hooping and hollering andall this noise.
And he's in there with all thatfertilizer and he knocks on the
door and he hears all thishooping and hollering and all
this noise and he opens the door.
He could barely open the doorand there is shit everywhere.
There is all the fertilizer isspread all over the place and
(32:34):
the son is diving through it.
He's squirting in his hands,he's got it in his hair and he's
son, what are you doing?
And the son's dad?
Look at all this horseshit.
There's bound to be a pony inhere somewhere and that's the
end of the story.
And the thing is that sometimesyou could give people money, you
(32:56):
could give them a thousandstudents, you could give him
four locations, an elite staffof people, and some people are
just going to be negative andsad, and usually those people
are found in one school with nostudents.
And you could take somebodywith no students and one school
(33:18):
in a bad location.
And if they're, if they havethe right attitude, they don't
have to always be positive, butyou got to put on your face and
you got to find some renewablesource of energy.
I don't care if you get aself-help guru or you go to
church or whatever makes youtick, anything and everything.
I think it's important for youto have purpose, because if
(33:40):
you're looking for something tobe negative and sad about, if
you're looking for something tobe negative and sad about, you
shouldn't be teaching people.
People need hope, people needmotivation, they need optimism,
and you know what people need.
People need to teach their kidsthat, because you know what,
even though I'm a dad and I dothis for thousands of people, I
(34:01):
need people to do that for mykids, because nobody is a
prophet in their own land.
I need great teachers andsoccer coaches and wrestling
coaches to take interest in mykids, to hold my daughter's hand
and bring her through hardtimes.
I need my kids and you knowwhat.
I'll sell my house.
I'll eat peanut butter andjelly sandwiches.
(34:21):
I will have less of a life.
I'll go out to eat less ifsomebody can help my kid tick
that way, and that's what we doin martial arts.
It's not about what you teach,but it's how you teach.
It's not about what you say,it's how you say when you say it
.
You know who you say it to atthe right time.
(34:42):
Timing is everything and Ithink that if you have this
tragedy of a situation whereyou're this dying person on the
ground off the Appalachian Trailand if you were to zoom out and
see how close you were tosurvival, you would not give up,
because it's not money that youneed.
(35:03):
You might need some money, butthat's not the defining factor.
The defining factor is you needto have purpose, and I don't
know what that is for you.
You know what I mean.
For me, I go to church and Iread a lot and I stay motivated.
I listen to podcasts and I liketo have fun.
I like to have fun.
I want my students to have fun.
I want my instructors to laugh,because I know there's too much
(35:25):
month, not enough money.
Sometimes, even if you have fourschools, it's too much month.
Sometimes, even if you grosshundreds of thousands of dollars
a month.
Some months are tough and moneyit greases the wheels of life,
but it doesn't solve all yourproblems.
Actually, what solves yourproblems is purpose, and martial
(35:46):
arts is not the best businessin the world, but if purpose was
a commodity like cash, we're inthe most lucrative industry
you'll find, because we can helppeople.
It doesn't matter what theirrace is, it doesn't matter what
their age is.
It doesn't matter what theirage is, it doesn't matter what
their faith is.
We can help anybody.
(36:09):
I have a taekwondo school.
It's literally kicking andpunching.
We have kids that have come inand trained with wheelchairs.
You know how crazy that is.
We have people with walkers andwe say, just punch, and it is
encouraging and it's awesome,and it's amazing.
We have grandparents that train, we have people, and I'm not
unique.
There's jujitsu schools andkarate schools that do way more
(36:30):
impressive things.
But having said that, I thinkthat if I were to talk to that
school owner, I would implorethem and beg them to unlock
their potential, because theyhave this cloud over their head
and maybe they just have avictim mentality.
It's not that bad and you'rebetter than that.
Maybe you should rip off thedecals, the corny slogans off
(36:56):
your walls and start living it,because it doesn't matter what
the gift wrapping is.
At the end of the day, yourmartial arts school will only
thrive if, when you open up whatyour school offers, it is
life-changing.
And you can't just be superpessimistic.
I feel you need to be realisticand this is the reality check.
(37:16):
But the reality is you need tobe an optimist.
I think you need to be adreamer, you need to be an
encourager and you need to knowthat sometimes you just need one
student to come through thedoor, over-deliver, and they'll
bring their friend and they'llbring their friends and, foot
over foot, step over step,you'll literally make your way
out of the hole.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Awesome Pastor, tony Awesome, just inspirational.
I hope our listeners just gotmotivated by this episode and
this podcast.
Let's conclude here.
If you are enjoying our show,go ahead and rate and review our
podcast or YouTube channel.
Our goal is to make our show assuccessful as possible and your
(38:03):
review will help us achievethat.
Have a great week, everyone,and I look forward to our next
episode.
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