September 9, 2025 • 49 mins
Angella and Leslie explore how choosing joy over fear transformed their lives, particularly in relationships. They share personal stories about leaving marriages that weren't serving them, despite the comfort of familiarity and fear of the unknown.
Chapter Markers:
0:00 Welcome to Black Boomer Besties
5:02 Choosing Joy Over Fear
13:17 Angella's Marriage Journey
22:00 Leslie's Decades-Long Marriage
33:10 The Beautiful Home That Wasn't Happy
41:20 Fear of Leaving vs. Finding Joy
47:00 Finding Love and Joy Again
Book a free coaching consultation with Angie here:https://calendly.com/rhythmwigs/more-joy-complimentary-consultation
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Get Angie’s eBook:
We’re Too Old for This! The Inquisitive Older Woman’s Guide to Joy http://joystrategy.co/ebook
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Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey Ange, hey Les Ha-cha-cha, why are you always
like this?
I just get.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
So A couple reasons.
One I'm happy to talk to you,and that's one.
But I had somewhat of a long,kind of rough day today at work,
so I'm kind of like using thistime to decompress.
So I'm happy that I'm notworking.
Gotcha, you could have stoppedwith.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I could have stopped that.
I'm happy to see you.
I would have been quite okaywith that.
No, it's good to see yousmiling.
Hello, hello, cello.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well, come on now.
Welcome to another episode ofBlack Boomer Besties from.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Brooklyn.
I'm Angella and that's Leslie,my best friend of almost 50
years.
We are two free-thinking olderBlack women and we've decided to
be more bold and joyful in ourlives, like to take that really
seriously, and we started thispodcast to share our story with
(01:14):
you and hoping that you willjoin us and on the road to joy
and boldness.
Okay, you can follow us forsure to joy and boldness.
Okay, you can follow us forsure, because we do give
insights and all that stuff onon our journey, but we, more
(01:37):
importantly, want to see you onthe journey also.
So today we're going to betalking about joy over fear.
We do not believe in fearless,or we don't feel fear, or we
believe we have experienced thatyou feel fear.
Fear is a good motivator.
(01:57):
Fear tells you to run when thebear is coming.
Fear is protection, but feardoes not need to stop you from
getting to your joy.
And today we're going to betalking about relationships and
how we made some decisions, verydifficult decisions to go
(02:19):
towards our joy and to have fearstep aside.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Well, I'll tell you why.
I'm also being a little extrasilly because I'm nervous, and
one of the things that I noticedwith my patients when they're
nervous, they get extra chatty.
Oh yeah, they talk a lot, theytalk a lot and I'm a little
nervous because some of whatwe're going to be talking about
today obviously is very personal, because some of what we're
(02:45):
going to be talking about todayobviously is very personal.
So there's some vulnerabilitythere, and it also is going to
require me to think about thingsthat may not have been so
pleasant and joyful at the time.
So I'm just, you know, tryingto get that wrap my head around
that before you Make me talk tothe public about stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
First of all, all I got you you don't have to talk
about anything you don't feelready to talk about yeah, um,
and I also, as you know, butI'll never tire of telling you
how incredibly proud I am of youfor so many things.
This, in particular, how you,you, you, you wrestled, you
(03:30):
wrestled with this and you madesome decisions that you, you
planted your heel and you werelike, eh, joy schmoy, I can do
without it, I'm good, I'm goodover here, just kind of being,
you know, kind of set in place,and so I'm really proud of you.
(03:50):
So hopefully, you know, you'llfeel like your vulnerability was
worth it.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Okay, I got that, thank you, and I receive it.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Okay, good, hey, it's Coach Angela here.
I wanted to remind you that mycoaching practice is available
for older women who are readyfor more joy in their lives and
who are interested in morejoy-filled moneymaking.
I have honed my practice overlessons that I've learned,
(04:23):
lessons that I have experienceddeeply from a position of
wanting, desiring, going after,not giving up on getting more
joy in my life, and I amavailable to teach you some of
the tools and skills that I'velearned.
You just have to set up a freeconsultation with me.
(04:44):
We'll talk for about 20 minutes, We'll see if we're a good fit
and if we are, we will startdoing this joy work together.
So you know, Leslie has had themost recent experience around
relationships and things that wechose to step away from.
(05:06):
I've definitely had my share.
I will share some of that withyou, and you should know by now
that I've been divorced twice.
I was married once for 12 yearsthat is the father of my three
(05:28):
beautiful children and I had ashort marriage for about five
years, but we were reallytogether only for two or so, and
so a lot of kind of decisionmaking around that and
especially with childrendeciding.
(05:49):
I actually didn't decide.
I actually heard a very audibleHoly Spirit saying you're
enabling some pretty wickedbehavior and you ought to stop,
and you ought to stop, you oughtto stop.
And um, by then I was so.
(06:23):
And this is this.
I really got to know my Saviorreally well.
We spent a lot of time together, a lot of time together, and it
was just a raw and honestoutpouring of myself to Christ,
(06:53):
outpouring of myself to Christ,and I will forever be grateful
for that time on my knees.
It was during that time that Iactually felt him hold me.
Same time, the.
You know, everything was goingon right.
(07:16):
You had to decide where youwere going to live, what were
the children going to do, andall the things and all the
things and all the things.
And then you know, and then I'mgoing to.
And then you know, and then I'mgoing to, because it sounds
like you're, you're, you'realmost ready.
Then you know it was ultimatelyhis, his decision to divorce.
(07:47):
I decided that I needed theseparation because it was
getting a little little too, tootoo dicey, a little too
emotionally abusive and somephysical abuse too.
And then, when the Holy Spiritspoke to me after that, it was
primarily me being obedient.
I did not feel like I was incontrol per se.
(08:08):
I felt like I was leaning in towhat I was supposed to do, and
so it.
Honestly, you know the the thetactical stuff.
Some things were difficult,right, you got to pack up a
house, you got to do the yardsale, all that stuff, but the
emotional was a lot easier afterthat because of that.
So, and I won't talk about thesecond one right now, but the
(08:33):
second one really was like, okay, and you're the common
denominator here, what is goingon, and that was that was, you
know, no children involved interms of you know, I didn't have
any children with him, but itwas emotionally, oh my gosh, I
(08:54):
went through it with myself.
I went through it with myself,Sure.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I can imagine that yeah, yeah.
And I think that it's certainlynatural for us to start thinking
what is it that I did wrong?
You know these are people thatwe've chosen and these are
people that we thought we wouldbe together with, you know,
(09:21):
forever.
You know I can speak for me and, knowing enough of you that I
know that that was your case aswell.
You know what I think is sosignificant about, as I'm
listening to you speak about howyou really heard his capital H
(09:41):
telling you, you know, hisleading you to leave a situation
that was not for you.
Yeah, it was the opposite of itfor me, because, as a Christian
wife, I had my former spouse andI married 20, 20, whatever
(10:04):
years ago.
We had been together about 30,right, yeah, and while we didn't
have children together, heraised, you know, our son.
You know he's still my son'sdad.
He raised my son, not hisbiological child, since he was
(10:28):
two years old.
So you know, I always sayMari's been blessed to have two
dads.
Interpretation of the Bible wasthat we marry forever the old
(10:53):
saying, for better or for worse.
And when things became reallyintolerable in my marriage.
I am charged to accept that andthe better will come, perhaps
later and 20 plus years it justgot worse.
(11:14):
You know, in my case it wasit's in retrospect.
It's so easy for me to identifythis now In retrospect.
It's so easy for me to identifythis now.
But I needed to step out of itin order to understand really
what was going on.
And I have an education inpsychiatry.
(11:37):
I've been a sexual violenceadvocate, a volunteer advocate,
for many years in my county, soI understand what dysfunction is
, what mental illness is.
I understand what badrelationships look like, what
abuse looks like and what abuselooks like In all of its forms.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, sure sure.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
And yet I really could not see myself in such a
bad situation until I steppedout of it.
But again the back of my mindwas that okay, if this is the
worst, you know the better iscoming.
And you made a vow, les, andyou know how I am about my word
(12:22):
and things like that, especiallyif I'm making my pledging, my
word to the Lord.
Then I figured that.
And you know the other thingabout my life as many people who
know me know that I have such arich life Outside of, outside
(12:43):
of my marriage.
You know I have a great friend,friend relationships.
I love my work.
You know I have so many otheroutlets that what I found that
was missing in my home was morethan made up for the situation
(13:04):
outside of my home.
So it was easy to kind ofoverlook and isolate that as
over there.
And then everything else isjust fine.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I remember that you would still like you would take
vacations together.
You would cause, yeah, Iremember once we, we, we were
going to go to Puerto Rico andfor for a conference, you were
(13:39):
going to join me at a conference, and then it turns out that you
, you decided, we decided thatprobably not a good idea to go
to the conference because I'mgoing to be locked in on kind of
entrepreneur life, and.
And so he came along and whatkind of struck me at that time
(14:04):
is how two people could betogether and not be together.
Right, that you could travelsame hotels, same, and not even
like there was.
You know, you guys talk to eachother and all of that.
You certainly both of you talkto me, but there was still this,
this separation, and I alwayswonder about people who stay in
(14:35):
marriages that may not be, youknow, like, how long is the long
suffering, right?
And is it about the number oris it about cause you could stay
that long and you could be inkind of, let's say, continual
(14:56):
couples therapy, right, andfigure out and get better.
And you know, um, I'm nottalking about a perfect,
whatever the hell that means.
I'm talking about did you kindof have this.
I know you weren't counting,but did you have this idea that,
no matter what, like I madethis commitment, it's not
(15:21):
getting better after 20 years?
But I'm in Like.
Is that what you were kind offeeling?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I absolutely did, and it's interesting that you
mentioned about what youwitnessed in Puerto Rico,
because I think this may havebeen after we first separated or
very soon while we wereseparated, because, you know, I
think, all in all, he and Iwould have been much better
friends than spouses, you know,and I think I confused the two,
(15:52):
you know.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Because you admired.
There's a lot that you admiredabout him.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, and as a person , if I took myself out of it.
There's much that I stilladmire about him, just you know
yeah, over there it was just notover there.
That's what I always say.
He was not a good husband to me, but what you actually saw was
interesting, because the thingabout it is that he and I had
(16:21):
been living separate lives forquite a long time and that's how
we really managed to staymarried together and got along.
I had so many personalinterests it's almost like it
wasn't.
It was always a chasm.
We saw things differently.
We didn't see eye to eye oftenand because we were both so
(16:42):
independent you know, he stayedin his lane and I stayed in my
lane and when it was time to goout to dinner or whatever, then
we can join and have dinner andhave you know and sit and have
talk about the news or whatever.
But then we really weren'tconnected.
So that became more and moreapparent to me.
I would think that if you'rewith somebody for a number of
(17:06):
decades, that you would at leaststart you know, like you know,
he's my best friend and we'rereally connected.
And the disconnect became moreapparent to the point where it
was obvious to me that he didn'tlike me at all.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
He didn't know you, he wouldn't accept.
He would not accept the thingsthat were really remarkable
about you.
You know he wouldn't evenaccept.
You know he just thought I hadon rose colored glasses he would
never have.
He would never believe that youand I have so many things that
we disagree on and still haveand still have respect.
(17:50):
It's like one or the other.
You can't disagree with someoneand respect them, kind of thing
.
I think it's just really blackand white and I love him.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
But I think in general I can tell he didn't
like me.
In general I can tell he didn'tlike me.
So he would think that anythingnice that other people saw in
me, I had them fooled because hereally saw the true Les, if you
only knew, if you only knew.
So everybody out there thoughtoh, she's this great fun person,
(18:23):
she's a great doctor, she'sthis, she's kind, she's giving
whatever it's like.
Uh-uh, that ain't who she is.
I know the real person and youknow, and and I.
that's something that I'vealways felt bad about and, as
you can imagine, as we werepartnered for such a long time,
(18:45):
I longed to have my husband seeme.
Mm-hmm for who I am Right, and Iwould say, other than spending
you know so many years in arelationship that didn't work
out, that's my biggest regretthat he never saw you know who I
(19:08):
am and was able to appreciateme for who I am.
He never saw my heart Right buthe couldn't Right.
He couldn't, and I knew leavingbecame easier when I realized
that there was nothing more thatI can do to make him see me.
(19:32):
You know, because I've soughthelp over the years, obviously,
you know I've spoken to ourpastors and clergy and family
members and this and that, andyou know, I realized that I
could not get any help for theproblems that we were having.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Did you do that?
Imago, we did.
Yeah so did I.
We did so did I with number two.
It was incredible.
I am going to see thatdocumentary that you sent me,
wasn't it incredible?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Oh, we need to talk about that.
And a whole, a whole, nother.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
After I watch the documentary we'll talk about it,
but we'll put links to it here.
Yeah, it's this way ofcommunicating.
It's not only for couples, asfar as I understand.
No, no.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
And I go for children and this and that it's a
communication technique thatreally allows one to hear the
partner.
Because, remember, one of thethings that I am saying is the
problem that I had for decadeswith the person that I slept
with every night was that hecould not see me, he could not
(20:46):
hear me.
And this coaching that thiscouple, Harville and I'm
blocking on their name rightnow- and.
Helen, those are their firstnames, but they give you tools
to help people communicate andhear each other.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Right and it was.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I was laughing when I sent the documentary the link
to the documentary out, becauseI'm like it's a wonderful
program, didn't work for us butit's a great program.
But you know, relationships aretough and people have to go in
it.
Remember, as Monique says,wherever you go, there you are.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
There you are.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
So we bring ourselves into our lives and our
situations and all.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
And you know I'm going to say he couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
So I'm going to push you a little bit right, oh boy.
We may take this part out ifyou just want.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Let me sip some tea, seeing the other as a full-grown
person, a full-grown competentperson, who's carrying and I'm
paraphrasing here because it'sbeen a long time, but this part
was significant who's carryingsome childhood hurt.
(22:31):
Basically, they're carryingsome childhood hurt.
However, they are fullycompetent human beings, right?
So, and what I remember, whatstill remains in what I learned
from Imago is a lot about myself.
So the question for you is youknow I know you're saying he
(22:58):
couldn't see you and you knowthat that was a regret.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, I see where this is going.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And it's going this way because I think an important
aspect of one being in joy andfinding a joyful state and
maintaining a joyful state istheir self-awareness, right, and
how empowered you are in notbeing triggered by other people
but finding yourself in everysituation and kind of knowing
(23:32):
how to go, based on who you are,versus being, you know, at the
mercy of someone else or someother circumstance.
So that's where this is comingfrom, like because I know that
this is not a setup.
I know that you learn thingsabout yourself.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
And what did you?
What was one thing you learnedabout yourself?
I can think of some, but well,because I know you.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I'll tell you, it's just.
It's a little hard to thinkback at that time One because
it's difficult, but also becauseI'm in such a happy, different
relationship right now.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Yeah, it's such a different,it's so, so different.
I know one of the problems Iwould say that he had, that I
(24:32):
own, is that I becameincreasingly indifferent, and it
was obvious you know it wasobvious that I just stopped, you
know, trying, I stopped caring.
You know, I think by time we hadgotten to Imago and this was
maybe five years ago or so butby the time we had gotten there
(24:55):
there was, I think, so muchwater under the bridge at this
point, you know, and you know Inever think that things are
hopeless, but I almost and I'vesaid this to you before, I think
we stayed in, we stayedtogether too long, certainly for
(25:16):
the wrong reasons, and thoseare some of the things that I
want to mention, not necessarilyright to second, but I want to
mention that because these aresome of the things that I had to
shed in order to move to thatjoy point.
Move to that joy point and thatI'll definitely own, because
(25:38):
there was a whole lot, a wholepersona, there was a whole
vision of things that I washolding and grasping that I
should not have, and it involvedbeing honest with myself, and
you know how I am about honesty.
When I realized that I was notbeing honest with myself, you
(26:03):
know, first, that's when I knewthat I needed to change.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah, yeah, I got to tell you.
I don't know if this is asecret like my secret, not a
secret between us.
I don't know if I've ever saidthis out loud Hopefully I have,
but you know, I you saw me nakedone day.
Too many times.
So I used to have this dreamthat we could live closer
(26:35):
together.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Oh, yeah, that I know .
Speaker 1 (26:38):
And I'm not done.
You know that's not all and itwas just like, well, that's
never going to happen, becauseyou've got this beautiful home.
You put so much effort intomaking it this oasis and this
(26:58):
place of refuge for any wearytraveler.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Let me tell you.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Leslie is the hospitality, like the
hospitality.
I can't even Empress, right,the empress of hospitality.
I don't like the queen thing,because the queen and king, you
know, empress, emperor andempress, I like that.
It's kind of a Jamaican thing,but Leslie's a queen of that.
(27:30):
And so they had this beautifulhome, well manicured, but
nothing ostentatious, just aplace where you know the koi
pond, and you had created thisvision Very carefully curated,
(27:56):
very carefully curated, verycarefully curated, and there was
nothing fake about what you did, right, and I'm not saying this
like this was a facade.
Possible secret here is I waslike man, I wonder if there's a
(28:18):
way that somehow he and Lescould find, you know both find a
hospital or medical practice towork where I am so we could all
be together.
And I was like, but she'llnever leave this, you know,
(28:45):
situation that she has created.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Created sanctuary.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
And so when I saw this is what I mean when I saw
that you were willing to let goof all of that not even willing
to let go you were like I don'twant it.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I was running from that.
I don't want it.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
I was like oh snap, what do you mean?
Snap?
Speaker 2 (29:16):
That was like huge.
My mom said the same thing.
That was huge.
What do you mean?
You're selling the house to him.
What are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, so yeah.
That was huge Ange.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
It was huge it was huge, but it was so funny
because I didn't give it athought.
It was so easy when I decidedthat what was inside the walls
of that beautiful home, when youtake everything apart, there
(29:53):
was no joy and that deep love inthat home.
You know, we might as well havebeen, you know, roommates, you
know for a number of years andthat might be true in many
marriages.
You know, I think we settle into our partners that we've been
(30:14):
with for a long time.
The difference is you want to bewith a roommate that likes you.
You want to be with a roommatethat respects you, and I think
that mutually, we lost respectfor each other and you never
want to diminish someone'shumanity by doing that.
(30:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know soand I think I'll own this that
he knew that I no longerrespected his counsel, his
leadership, his head of thehousehold, all of those things,
and I didn't want to.
(30:58):
I didn't want to live a fakelife anymore.
You know, people did not knowfrom the outside.
You know, after you pass thedriveway with multiple cars and
obviously they're all fancycars- and the acre of land and
the pond and the greenhouses andthe pond and the greenhouses,
and this and this, and that youknow.
(31:19):
It's like when you strip itdown you're there by yourself
and only you look in the mirrorand I said I did not want to
stay in that home because it didnot have the memories that it
was supposed to have for me.
I thought, by making you know.
I always thought what did Iknow about being, you know, a
(31:41):
wife?
I was 40 when we got married,even though we had been together
before that.
But I thought that if you makea nice home, if you cook
regularly, if you you know whatI mean if you dress it up and if
you do all the things, and youknow that I'm and if you dress
(32:01):
you up.
Into physical labor.
So you know, I did all theaccoutrements and all the stuff
in the house stuff myself.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Outside too, in the yard and out and whatever.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
You know, I thought that those were some of the
tenets of whatever, but you know, it really isn't.
It really isn't.
That's good, but those are notthe deeper things, and these are
some of the lessons that Icarry into my current
relationship, which is just, I'dsay, wonderful.
(32:32):
You know, I'm feeling the joyof that and I also know that my
partner respects me as a personand I feel that, you know, yeah,
that external stuff is reallylike we think it's, it's like
(32:57):
glue, but it's.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
It's actually becomes claustrophobic, right?
My ex-husband and I built thathouse like from ground up.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
And it was.
It was showy, it's definitelymore what he wanted than what I
wanted.
But you know, I wasn't, Iwasn't mad at it, it was just
you know, okay, you want a bighouse, you want to have to put
(33:42):
curtains up on 50 windows, oryou want to buy carpet.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I can make those curtains as you did.
I can make those curtains asyou did, you know it's.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
it becomes this thing that you know it's just.
It's just like it's what'sgoing on inside.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Right that fulfills you.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
That fulfills you.
You know what I mean.
And if you're driving up to thehouse, as I did, and pull into
the garage and you have to sitin there for a few minutes to
kind of prepare, yourself forgoing inside, right you know
what I mean.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Then what do you care how beautiful the surroundings
are, it's just you're saying allthe prayers you know, don't get
(34:43):
triggered.
You know all the things.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Reasons why it's so difficultis because you get so much
feedback from the outside.
You know from colleagues, fromyour neighbors, from your
friends.
You know we get built up and wekind of buy into that that
(35:05):
these are the things that youshould do.
This is what a home that twophysicians own should have, or
not just that, it's like it wasa comfortable home for me, my
family, my friends, andentertaining and this.
You know what I mean.
But where are your prioritiesand what are the things that are
important?
You know, and it's just as Igot older, I realized that.
(35:30):
You know, I know this is goingto sound really funny and maybe
our people who are listening canreally relate.
One of the things it was kindof like a measure.
I know it's going to soundcrazy, but I said I don't want
to die with this person.
Oh, you know what I mean.
It's like I don't want to be inmy last days.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, you literally Les because when you did your
living will.
We don't have to go into, butit became apparent that this
person may not be the bestperson to make decisions about.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
We couldn't even get along for that long.
We couldn't even get along forthat.
That long, we couldn't even getalong that long.
He could not abide by my wishes.
He would not respect you indeath, he wouldn't he really
couldn't he I.
I did not want to be on aventilator or this and he's like
you will live forever if I haveyou, you will be shriveled up.
(36:33):
You know yet one otherdisagreement we have why are you
making Angie and your sisteryour health care power of
attorney?
Because you told me youcouldn't do my.
You know this is what I say tomy patients.
You know they say, yeah, wewanted dad to keep him on the
(36:53):
ventilator.
I said listen, you got to.
Let me remind you, as yourdad's power of attorney, you are
speaking for what he would want, not what you would want.
Are you sure that he would wantthis trach and peg?
Put you know, even though he'ssaying right now he doesn't want
(37:13):
it.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Are you sure?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
that's what he wants, you know.
But we often have to bereminded.
But that was funny.
He says nope, only God has thepower.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
What the power to intubate me and put me on the
ventilator and set the settingsto volume control what?
Speaker 2 (37:36):
oh my gosh, you know, people don't realize that it is
also god that's making yourheart stop yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, when we would say you takethat thing, met joke.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
So let's get to the joy.
Let's get to the joy becausethat was get to the joy part,
because that was a lot of fearand you know it's like gearing
up for joy.
Gearing up for joy.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
But let me just say one other thing about the fear.
I can laugh about it now.
You know I was afraid to leave.
I was afraid to be on my own.
Yeah, I was afraid in thefuture, to start dating again.
(38:19):
What would that look like?
I hadn't dated in 30 years, youknow.
There was so much unchartedland in front of me and so many
things to fear.
And I haven't lived alone inmany years, you know, maybe when
we were roommates last was thelast.
Well, that wasn't even alone,right?
(38:39):
So I was afraid to leave, eventhough it was a situation that
was bad.
I did not know that.
The unknown seemed almostuntenable and that kept me also,
you know, yeah, it really didthe devil.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
the devil, you know?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Yeah, because you know how I am.
I don't like change.
I'm change averse.
I've been in my job for thelast 20 years.
I have had my hair the same wayfor 40 years, whatever I just I
don't like change.
And you know, I settle intosomething that's pleasurable for
me and I kind of stay in it,even in this situation I said
(39:26):
I'll make.
Do you know I didn't realizethat what was in me was the
ability to thrive.
You know that term is like he'sblocking.
He was blocking me for real,because it really wasn't until I
was out of that situation did Irealize that I had the capacity
(39:50):
to love in the way that I hadnot in so many years Wow, you
know, in such a long time andreceive love?
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
That part you had mentioned in a few episodes ago
that one of the things that yourfuture self would thank you for
is that your, yourrelationships, you, they do not.
Still there's.
(40:24):
There's not anger that is is.
Your memories of theserelationships are not like mired
in anger and so on.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
And I think that's really good.
Yeah, I'm not taking bitternessinto my current love
relationship.
You know I'm really trying hardto see it as a new opportunity
and leaving a lot of thatsadness and baggage you know,
and it's not easy.
I'm getting therapy right nowand I talk to my therapist about
(40:58):
it and I'm like you sure you,sure you know.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (41:02):
about, by the way, therapy and much of all the good
things.
The Bible says every good thing, every good blessing comes from
the Lord.
Therapy is one of those things.
We are proponents of, goodtherapy.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Good counsel, because we don't have all the answers.
That's right, it is not inopposition to our faith.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Why why?
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Why you can please get your therapy.
Yeah, please get your therapy.
So that is helping you to moveinto this joy place the way my
(41:52):
heart swells when I know thatyou are.
You're putting your mentalhealth, your joy, your desires
for joy.
You're giving it so muchpriority in your life right now.
(42:13):
Yeah, Listen for as long asyou've known him.
As a matter of fact, you and Imet him together.
We won't go into the story, butyou and I met him together, so
I have known him for as long asyou have.
Yeah, by the day, by the day.
By the day yeah by the day bythe day, by the day, and the
(42:47):
things, the ways that I'veseen're not there, but I'm
saying, you know, we don't thinkabout sometimes, when we're in,
a thing that there could be,there could be and what I would
suggest, if you let joy reallytake, you know, take the wheel,
(43:13):
you know, take the wheel and you, you, you know, if you hear
this, this, this, these sayingsthat I'm using, joy to me is
divine, it is from the divineright.
If you let that take the wheel,it will help you put so many
things in your rearview mirror,things that you never thought,
when you're in it, that therewould be a life, a big, full,
(43:36):
joyful life, on the other side.
And knowing what I know aboutwhat you've been through,
knowing what you know about whatI've been through, that we can
look at some of these things tothe and come out, you know, and
we have, we have, we have some,some, some, some scars, but
they're not scars that areinterfering, they're scars that
let us know that we can surviveshit.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Yeah, and you know what I mean Scars.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Exactly that's right, and you know that's right.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Back in the rearview mirror and you're like what the
hell you know it's like, why did?
Like what the hell you knowit's like why did.
But I think that everyexperience, especially something
so profound as this, it'suseful.
It's God put you in thesesituations for a reason.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
That's right, yep.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
You know it's not time wasted.
Yeah, yeah, you always have toask God what is the lesson?
You're in the thing, what isthe?
Speaker 1 (44:33):
lesson.
That posture to me is whatsaved me every time.
Every time is not to, is not tokind of, stay in a woe is me,
but God, like I know you, youknow it before it happened.
Like what would you have melearn in this situation?
About myself, about the otherperson, all the?
Speaker 2 (44:55):
things.
Sure, you can only imagine meand my, you know, having been
married for so long.
Yeah, I'm like why did I staythen?
Why did you know?
It's like I wasted so much timeno time is wasted.
No time is wasted.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
You know, while you're alive, there's no time
wasted.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
If you're learning from it whenyou know more, you do better.
Yeah, if you're learning fromit, doom scrolling for the rest
of your life.
I think that's wasteful.
Just you know, we're justmaking sure that's clear, all
right, very good, very good.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
So now I think we're both on the joy side of this
particular, I think, thisrelationship, yeah, this
particular fear.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
I think I'm good.
I don't think I'm perfect interms of you know, things will
(46:06):
come up in my new relationship.
Your're good.
I think that we are both of uson this journey of continual
improvement, self-improvement,self-awareness, self-improvement
that cycle, what we have goingforward in relationships.
We may have our thing, we willhave our thing, but they will
look very different.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Than what we've been through, and that's lessons
learned.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Amen to that.
Let me ask you this.
A question for me, no.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Would you?
Speaker 2 (46:24):
marry again, oh who would I marry again.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Oh boy, les, all right, you can think about it.
Yes, yes, I would, you would, Iwould, I would, I would.
I would do it for verydifferent reasons.
I would do it for verydifferent reasons.
I would do it for verydifferent reasons.
(46:58):
And so I, I I'm going to thinkabout it good and hard, because
I don't want it to be, I don'twant it to have the same.
I'm going to say it this way, Idon't totally mean it.
I don't want it to have the sametrappings as why I got married
before oh no, I, you know what Imean, absolutely this, this,
(47:20):
this one will be different, andum, there is some work that I
have to do, um, before that, butum, but yeah, yeah, because um,
I'm in love and love feels goodand and it feels um.
You know, it feels, uh, like um, but it feels.
(47:47):
It feels like flow, it feelslike flow, it feels like flow.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Yeah, I hear you.
Good for you, babe, all right.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
How are we on time?
We're good.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Yeah, we're good, but I think we're good.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
What else you want to say anything?
Speaker 2 (48:02):
I have said it all.
You have said it all.
Actually, I'll say this what?
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Ooh, isn't this one a doozy?
We're telling all the peopleall the things, but that's what
we do.
We are truth tellers and we arejoy seekers and we will
continue to do that.
There is a bit more to thisepisode that is reserved for our
Patreon subscribers.
Leslie and I both do some morerevealing, and she shared a bomb
(48:38):
show I didn't even know.
I didn't even know.
Listen, by becoming a subscriber, you really help us to fund
this podcast.
It is our way of meeting someof the expenses that we have for
bringing this content to you.
We've been doing this foralmost three years now and your
support would really be helpful.
You can subscribe at the $5 or$10 level.
(48:58):
Just head on over to Patreonthat's P-A-T-R-E-O-N and do a
search for Besties Quad SquadB-E-S-T-I-E-S-Q-U-A-D-S-Q-U-A-D.
Who came up with that name?
That was Leslie, but it was socute.
It was a take on the Mod Squad.
(49:19):
Anyway, head on over to Patreon, become a subscriber.
We would really appreciate itand, best of all, hear the big
news that Leslie shared with oursubscriber group.
Thanks, All right.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
This has been another episode of Black Boomer.
Besties from Brooklyn, brooklynLeave comments.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Tell us what you think.
Come on now.
What do you think?
Disagree with us?
Do something, yeah, come on.
Bye.
Hey Ange, hey Les Ha-cha-cha, why are you always
like this?
I just get.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
So A couple reasons.
One I'm happy to talk to you,and that's one.
But I had somewhat of a long,kind of rough day today at work,
so I'm kind of like using thistime to decompress.
So I'm happy that I'm notworking.
Gotcha, you could have stoppedwith.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
I could have stopped that.
I'm happy to see you.
I would have been quite okaywith that.
No, it's good to see yousmiling.
Hello, hello, cello.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well, come on now.
Welcome to another episode ofBlack Boomer Besties from.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Brooklyn.
I'm Angella and that's Leslie,my best friend of almost 50
years.
We are two free-thinking olderBlack women and we've decided to
be more bold and joyful in ourlives, like to take that really
seriously, and we started thispodcast to share our story with
(01:14):
you and hoping that you willjoin us and on the road to joy
and boldness.
Okay, you can follow us forsure to joy and boldness.
Okay, you can follow us forsure, because we do give
insights and all that stuff onon our journey, but we, more
(01:37):
importantly, want to see you onthe journey also.
So today we're going to betalking about joy over fear.
We do not believe in fearless,or we don't feel fear, or we
believe we have experienced thatyou feel fear.
Fear is a good motivator.
(01:57):
Fear tells you to run when thebear is coming.
Fear is protection, but feardoes not need to stop you from
getting to your joy.
And today we're going to betalking about relationships and
how we made some decisions, verydifficult decisions to go
(02:19):
towards our joy and to have fearstep aside.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Well, I'll tell you why.
I'm also being a little extrasilly because I'm nervous, and
one of the things that I noticedwith my patients when they're
nervous, they get extra chatty.
Oh yeah, they talk a lot, theytalk a lot and I'm a little
nervous because some of whatwe're going to be talking about
today obviously is very personal, because some of what we're
(02:45):
going to be talking about todayobviously is very personal.
So there's some vulnerabilitythere, and it also is going to
require me to think about thingsthat may not have been so
pleasant and joyful at the time.
So I'm just, you know, tryingto get that wrap my head around
that before you Make me talk tothe public about stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
First of all, all I got you you don't have to talk
about anything you don't feelready to talk about yeah, um,
and I also, as you know, butI'll never tire of telling you
how incredibly proud I am of youfor so many things.
This, in particular, how you,you, you, you wrestled, you
(03:30):
wrestled with this and you madesome decisions that you, you
planted your heel and you werelike, eh, joy schmoy, I can do
without it, I'm good, I'm goodover here, just kind of being,
you know, kind of set in place,and so I'm really proud of you.
(03:50):
So hopefully, you know, you'llfeel like your vulnerability was
worth it.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Okay, I got that, thank you, and I receive it.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Okay, good, hey, it's Coach Angela here.
I wanted to remind you that mycoaching practice is available
for older women who are readyfor more joy in their lives and
who are interested in morejoy-filled moneymaking.
I have honed my practice overlessons that I've learned,
(04:23):
lessons that I have experienceddeeply from a position of
wanting, desiring, going after,not giving up on getting more
joy in my life, and I amavailable to teach you some of
the tools and skills that I'velearned.
You just have to set up a freeconsultation with me.
(04:44):
We'll talk for about 20 minutes, We'll see if we're a good fit
and if we are, we will startdoing this joy work together.
So you know, Leslie has had themost recent experience around
relationships and things that wechose to step away from.
(05:06):
I've definitely had my share.
I will share some of that withyou, and you should know by now
that I've been divorced twice.
I was married once for 12 yearsthat is the father of my three
(05:28):
beautiful children and I had ashort marriage for about five
years, but we were reallytogether only for two or so, and
so a lot of kind of decisionmaking around that and
especially with childrendeciding.
(05:49):
I actually didn't decide.
I actually heard a very audibleHoly Spirit saying you're
enabling some pretty wickedbehavior and you ought to stop,
and you ought to stop, you oughtto stop.
And um, by then I was so.
(06:23):
And this is this.
I really got to know my Saviorreally well.
We spent a lot of time together, a lot of time together, and it
was just a raw and honestoutpouring of myself to Christ,
(06:53):
outpouring of myself to Christ,and I will forever be grateful
for that time on my knees.
It was during that time that Iactually felt him hold me.
Same time, the.
You know, everything was goingon right.
(07:16):
You had to decide where youwere going to live, what were
the children going to do, andall the things and all the
things and all the things.
And then you know, and then I'mgoing to.
And then you know, and then I'mgoing to, because it sounds
like you're, you're, you'realmost ready.
Then you know it was ultimatelyhis, his decision to divorce.
(07:47):
I decided that I needed theseparation because it was
getting a little little too, tootoo dicey, a little too
emotionally abusive and somephysical abuse too.
And then, when the Holy Spiritspoke to me after that, it was
primarily me being obedient.
I did not feel like I was incontrol per se.
(08:08):
I felt like I was leaning in towhat I was supposed to do, and
so it.
Honestly, you know the the thetactical stuff.
Some things were difficult,right, you got to pack up a
house, you got to do the yardsale, all that stuff, but the
emotional was a lot easier afterthat because of that.
So, and I won't talk about thesecond one right now, but the
(08:33):
second one really was like, okay, and you're the common
denominator here, what is goingon, and that was that was, you
know, no children involved interms of you know, I didn't have
any children with him, but itwas emotionally, oh my gosh, I
(08:54):
went through it with myself.
I went through it with myself,Sure.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I can imagine that yeah, yeah.
And I think that it's certainlynatural for us to start thinking
what is it that I did wrong?
You know these are people thatwe've chosen and these are
people that we thought we wouldbe together with, you know,
(09:21):
forever.
You know I can speak for me and, knowing enough of you that I
know that that was your case aswell.
You know what I think is sosignificant about, as I'm
listening to you speak about howyou really heard his capital H
(09:41):
telling you, you know, hisleading you to leave a situation
that was not for you.
Yeah, it was the opposite of itfor me, because, as a Christian
wife, I had my former spouse andI married 20, 20, whatever
(10:04):
years ago.
We had been together about 30,right, yeah, and while we didn't
have children together, heraised, you know, our son.
You know he's still my son'sdad.
He raised my son, not hisbiological child, since he was
(10:28):
two years old.
So you know, I always sayMari's been blessed to have two
dads.
Interpretation of the Bible wasthat we marry forever the old
(10:53):
saying, for better or for worse.
And when things became reallyintolerable in my marriage.
I am charged to accept that andthe better will come, perhaps
later and 20 plus years it justgot worse.
(11:14):
You know, in my case it wasit's in retrospect.
It's so easy for me to identifythis now In retrospect.
It's so easy for me to identifythis now.
But I needed to step out of itin order to understand really
what was going on.
And I have an education inpsychiatry.
(11:37):
I've been a sexual violenceadvocate, a volunteer advocate,
for many years in my county, soI understand what dysfunction is
, what mental illness is.
I understand what badrelationships look like, what
abuse looks like and what abuselooks like In all of its forms.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, sure sure.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
And yet I really could not see myself in such a
bad situation until I steppedout of it.
But again the back of my mindwas that okay, if this is the
worst, you know the better iscoming.
And you made a vow, les, andyou know how I am about my word
(12:22):
and things like that, especiallyif I'm making my pledging, my
word to the Lord.
Then I figured that.
And you know the other thingabout my life as many people who
know me know that I have such arich life Outside of, outside
(12:43):
of my marriage.
You know I have a great friend,friend relationships.
I love my work.
You know I have so many otheroutlets that what I found that
was missing in my home was morethan made up for the situation
(13:04):
outside of my home.
So it was easy to kind ofoverlook and isolate that as
over there.
And then everything else isjust fine.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
I remember that you would still like you would take
vacations together.
You would cause, yeah, Iremember once we, we, we were
going to go to Puerto Rico andfor for a conference, you were
(13:39):
going to join me at a conference, and then it turns out that you
, you decided, we decided thatprobably not a good idea to go
to the conference because I'mgoing to be locked in on kind of
entrepreneur life, and.
And so he came along and whatkind of struck me at that time
(14:04):
is how two people could betogether and not be together.
Right, that you could travelsame hotels, same, and not even
like there was.
You know, you guys talk to eachother and all of that.
You certainly both of you talkto me, but there was still this,
this separation, and I alwayswonder about people who stay in
(14:35):
marriages that may not be, youknow, like, how long is the long
suffering, right?
And is it about the number oris it about cause you could stay
that long and you could be inkind of, let's say, continual
(14:56):
couples therapy, right, andfigure out and get better.
And you know, um, I'm nottalking about a perfect,
whatever the hell that means.
I'm talking about did you kindof have this.
I know you weren't counting,but did you have this idea that,
no matter what, like I madethis commitment, it's not
(15:21):
getting better after 20 years?
But I'm in Like.
Is that what you were kind offeeling?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I absolutely did, and it's interesting that you
mentioned about what youwitnessed in Puerto Rico,
because I think this may havebeen after we first separated or
very soon while we wereseparated, because, you know, I
think, all in all, he and Iwould have been much better
friends than spouses, you know,and I think I confused the two,
(15:52):
you know.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Because you admired.
There's a lot that you admiredabout him.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, and as a person , if I took myself out of it.
There's much that I stilladmire about him, just you know
yeah, over there it was just notover there.
That's what I always say.
He was not a good husband to me, but what you actually saw was
interesting, because the thingabout it is that he and I had
(16:21):
been living separate lives forquite a long time and that's how
we really managed to staymarried together and got along.
I had so many personalinterests it's almost like it
wasn't.
It was always a chasm.
We saw things differently.
We didn't see eye to eye oftenand because we were both so
(16:42):
independent you know, he stayedin his lane and I stayed in my
lane and when it was time to goout to dinner or whatever, then
we can join and have dinner andhave you know and sit and have
talk about the news or whatever.
But then we really weren'tconnected.
So that became more and moreapparent to me.
I would think that if you'rewith somebody for a number of
(17:06):
decades, that you would at leaststart you know, like you know,
he's my best friend and we'rereally connected.
And the disconnect became moreapparent to the point where it
was obvious to me that he didn'tlike me at all.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
He didn't know you, he wouldn't accept.
He would not accept the thingsthat were really remarkable
about you.
You know he wouldn't evenaccept.
You know he just thought I hadon rose colored glasses he would
never have.
He would never believe that youand I have so many things that
we disagree on and still haveand still have respect.
(17:50):
It's like one or the other.
You can't disagree with someoneand respect them, kind of thing
.
I think it's just really blackand white and I love him.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
But I think in general I can tell he didn't
like me.
In general I can tell he didn'tlike me.
So he would think that anythingnice that other people saw in
me, I had them fooled because hereally saw the true Les, if you
only knew, if you only knew.
So everybody out there thoughtoh, she's this great fun person,
(18:23):
she's a great doctor, she'sthis, she's kind, she's giving
whatever it's like.
Uh-uh, that ain't who she is.
I know the real person and youknow, and and I.
that's something that I'vealways felt bad about and, as
you can imagine, as we werepartnered for such a long time,
(18:45):
I longed to have my husband seeme.
Mm-hmm for who I am Right, and Iwould say, other than spending
you know so many years in arelationship that didn't work
out, that's my biggest regretthat he never saw you know who I
(19:08):
am and was able to appreciateme for who I am.
He never saw my heart Right buthe couldn't Right.
He couldn't, and I knew leavingbecame easier when I realized
that there was nothing more thatI can do to make him see me.
(19:32):
You know, because I've soughthelp over the years, obviously,
you know I've spoken to ourpastors and clergy and family
members and this and that, andyou know, I realized that I
could not get any help for theproblems that we were having.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Did you do that?
Imago, we did.
Yeah so did I.
We did so did I with number two.
It was incredible.
I am going to see thatdocumentary that you sent me,
wasn't it incredible?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Oh, we need to talk about that.
And a whole, a whole, nother.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
After I watch the documentary we'll talk about it,
but we'll put links to it here.
Yeah, it's this way ofcommunicating.
It's not only for couples, asfar as I understand.
No, no.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
And I go for children and this and that it's a
communication technique thatreally allows one to hear the
partner.
Because, remember, one of thethings that I am saying is the
problem that I had for decadeswith the person that I slept
with every night was that hecould not see me, he could not
(20:46):
hear me.
And this coaching that thiscouple, Harville and I'm
blocking on their name rightnow- and.
Helen, those are their firstnames, but they give you tools
to help people communicate andhear each other.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Right and it was.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
I was laughing when I sent the documentary the link
to the documentary out, becauseI'm like it's a wonderful
program, didn't work for us butit's a great program.
But you know, relationships aretough and people have to go in
it.
Remember, as Monique says,wherever you go, there you are.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
There you are.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
So we bring ourselves into our lives and our
situations and all.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
And you know I'm going to say he couldn't do it.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
So I'm going to push you a little bit right, oh boy.
We may take this part out ifyou just want.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Let me sip some tea, seeing the other as a full-grown
person, a full-grown competentperson, who's carrying and I'm
paraphrasing here because it'sbeen a long time, but this part
was significant who's carryingsome childhood hurt.
(22:31):
Basically, they're carryingsome childhood hurt.
However, they are fullycompetent human beings, right?
So, and what I remember, whatstill remains in what I learned
from Imago is a lot about myself.
So the question for you is youknow I know you're saying he
(22:58):
couldn't see you and you knowthat that was a regret.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, I see where this is going.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
And it's going this way because I think an important
aspect of one being in joy andfinding a joyful state and
maintaining a joyful state istheir self-awareness, right, and
how empowered you are in notbeing triggered by other people
but finding yourself in everysituation and kind of knowing
(23:32):
how to go, based on who you are,versus being, you know, at the
mercy of someone else or someother circumstance.
So that's where this is comingfrom, like because I know that
this is not a setup.
I know that you learn thingsabout yourself.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
And what did you?
What was one thing you learnedabout yourself?
I can think of some, but well,because I know you.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I'll tell you, it's just.
It's a little hard to thinkback at that time One because
it's difficult, but also becauseI'm in such a happy, different
relationship right now.
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Yeah, it's such a different,it's so, so different.
I know one of the problems Iwould say that he had, that I
(24:32):
own, is that I becameincreasingly indifferent, and it
was obvious you know it wasobvious that I just stopped, you
know, trying, I stopped caring.
You know, I think by time we hadgotten to Imago and this was
maybe five years ago or so butby the time we had gotten there
(24:55):
there was, I think, so muchwater under the bridge at this
point, you know, and you know Inever think that things are
hopeless, but I almost and I'vesaid this to you before, I think
we stayed in, we stayedtogether too long, certainly for
(25:16):
the wrong reasons, and thoseare some of the things that I
want to mention, not necessarilyright to second, but I want to
mention that because these aresome of the things that I had to
shed in order to move to thatjoy point.
Move to that joy point and thatI'll definitely own, because
(25:38):
there was a whole lot, a wholepersona, there was a whole
vision of things that I washolding and grasping that I
should not have, and it involvedbeing honest with myself, and
you know how I am about honesty.
When I realized that I was notbeing honest with myself, you
(26:03):
know, first, that's when I knewthat I needed to change.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Yeah, yeah, I got to tell you.
I don't know if this is asecret like my secret, not a
secret between us.
I don't know if I've ever saidthis out loud Hopefully I have,
but you know, I you saw me nakedone day.
Too many times.
So I used to have this dreamthat we could live closer
(26:35):
together.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Oh, yeah, that I know .
Speaker 1 (26:38):
And I'm not done.
You know that's not all and itwas just like, well, that's
never going to happen, becauseyou've got this beautiful home.
You put so much effort intomaking it this oasis and this
(26:58):
place of refuge for any wearytraveler.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Let me tell you.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Leslie is the hospitality, like the
hospitality.
I can't even Empress, right,the empress of hospitality.
I don't like the queen thing,because the queen and king, you
know, empress, emperor andempress, I like that.
It's kind of a Jamaican thing,but Leslie's a queen of that.
(27:30):
And so they had this beautifulhome, well manicured, but
nothing ostentatious, just aplace where you know the koi
pond, and you had created thisvision Very carefully curated,
(27:56):
very carefully curated, verycarefully curated, and there was
nothing fake about what you did, right, and I'm not saying this
like this was a facade.
Possible secret here is I waslike man, I wonder if there's a
(28:18):
way that somehow he and Lescould find, you know both find a
hospital or medical practice towork where I am so we could all
be together.
And I was like, but she'llnever leave this, you know,
(28:45):
situation that she has created.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Created sanctuary.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
And so when I saw this is what I mean when I saw
that you were willing to let goof all of that not even willing
to let go you were like I don'twant it.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I was running from that.
I don't want it.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
I was like oh snap, what do you mean?
Snap?
Speaker 2 (29:16):
That was like huge.
My mom said the same thing.
That was huge.
What do you mean?
You're selling the house to him.
What are you talking about?
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, so yeah.
That was huge Ange.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
It was huge it was huge, but it was so funny
because I didn't give it athought.
It was so easy when I decidedthat what was inside the walls
of that beautiful home, when youtake everything apart, there
(29:53):
was no joy and that deep love inthat home.
You know, we might as well havebeen, you know, roommates, you
know for a number of years andthat might be true in many
marriages.
You know, I think we settle into our partners that we've been
(30:14):
with for a long time.
The difference is you want to bewith a roommate that likes you.
You want to be with a roommatethat respects you, and I think
that mutually, we lost respectfor each other and you never
want to diminish someone'shumanity by doing that.
(30:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know soand I think I'll own this that
he knew that I no longerrespected his counsel, his
leadership, his head of thehousehold, all of those things,
and I didn't want to.
(30:58):
I didn't want to live a fakelife anymore.
You know, people did not knowfrom the outside.
You know, after you pass thedriveway with multiple cars and
obviously they're all fancycars- and the acre of land and
the pond and the greenhouses andthe pond and the greenhouses,
and this and this, and that youknow.
(31:19):
It's like when you strip itdown you're there by yourself
and only you look in the mirrorand I said I did not want to
stay in that home because it didnot have the memories that it
was supposed to have for me.
I thought, by making you know.
I always thought what did Iknow about being, you know, a
(31:41):
wife?
I was 40 when we got married,even though we had been together
before that.
But I thought that if you makea nice home, if you cook
regularly, if you you know whatI mean if you dress it up and if
you do all the things, and youknow that I'm and if you dress
(32:01):
you up.
Into physical labor.
So you know, I did all theaccoutrements and all the stuff
in the house stuff myself.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Outside too, in the yard and out and whatever.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
You know, I thought that those were some of the
tenets of whatever, but you know, it really isn't.
It really isn't.
That's good, but those are notthe deeper things, and these are
some of the lessons that Icarry into my current
relationship, which is just, I'dsay, wonderful.
(32:32):
You know, I'm feeling the joyof that and I also know that my
partner respects me as a personand I feel that, you know, yeah,
that external stuff is reallylike we think it's, it's like
(32:57):
glue, but it's.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
It's actually becomes claustrophobic, right?
My ex-husband and I built thathouse like from ground up.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
And it was.
It was showy, it's definitelymore what he wanted than what I
wanted.
But you know, I wasn't, Iwasn't mad at it, it was just
you know, okay, you want a bighouse, you want to have to put
(33:42):
curtains up on 50 windows, oryou want to buy carpet.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
I can make those curtains as you did.
I can make those curtains asyou did, you know it's.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
it becomes this thing that you know it's just.
It's just like it's what'sgoing on inside.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Right that fulfills you.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
That fulfills you.
You know what I mean.
And if you're driving up to thehouse, as I did, and pull into
the garage and you have to sitin there for a few minutes to
kind of prepare, yourself forgoing inside, right you know
what I mean.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Then what do you care how beautiful the surroundings
are, it's just you're saying allthe prayers you know, don't get
(34:43):
triggered.
You know all the things.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Reasons why it's so difficultis because you get so much
feedback from the outside.
You know from colleagues, fromyour neighbors, from your
friends.
You know we get built up and wekind of buy into that that
(35:05):
these are the things that youshould do.
This is what a home that twophysicians own should have, or
not just that, it's like it wasa comfortable home for me, my
family, my friends, andentertaining and this.
You know what I mean.
But where are your prioritiesand what are the things that are
important?
You know, and it's just as Igot older, I realized that.
(35:30):
You know, I know this is goingto sound really funny and maybe
our people who are listening canreally relate.
One of the things it was kindof like a measure.
I know it's going to soundcrazy, but I said I don't want
to die with this person.
Oh, you know what I mean.
It's like I don't want to be inmy last days.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, you literally Les because when you did your
living will.
We don't have to go into, butit became apparent that this
person may not be the bestperson to make decisions about.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
We couldn't even get along for that long.
We couldn't even get along forthat.
That long, we couldn't even getalong that long.
He could not abide by my wishes.
He would not respect you indeath, he wouldn't he really
couldn't he I.
I did not want to be on aventilator or this and he's like
you will live forever if I haveyou, you will be shriveled up.
(36:33):
You know yet one otherdisagreement we have why are you
making Angie and your sisteryour health care power of
attorney?
Because you told me youcouldn't do my.
You know this is what I say tomy patients.
You know they say, yeah, wewanted dad to keep him on the
(36:53):
ventilator.
I said listen, you got to.
Let me remind you, as yourdad's power of attorney, you are
speaking for what he would want, not what you would want.
Are you sure that he would wantthis trach and peg?
Put you know, even though he'ssaying right now he doesn't want
(37:13):
it.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Are you sure?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
that's what he wants, you know.
But we often have to bereminded.
But that was funny.
He says nope, only God has thepower.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
What the power to intubate me and put me on the
ventilator and set the settingsto volume control what?
Speaker 2 (37:36):
oh my gosh, you know, people don't realize that it is
also god that's making yourheart stop yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, when we would say you takethat thing, met joke.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
So let's get to the joy.
Let's get to the joy becausethat was get to the joy part,
because that was a lot of fearand you know it's like gearing
up for joy.
Gearing up for joy.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
But let me just say one other thing about the fear.
I can laugh about it now.
You know I was afraid to leave.
I was afraid to be on my own.
Yeah, I was afraid in thefuture, to start dating again.
(38:19):
What would that look like?
I hadn't dated in 30 years, youknow.
There was so much unchartedland in front of me and so many
things to fear.
And I haven't lived alone inmany years, you know, maybe when
we were roommates last was thelast.
Well, that wasn't even alone,right?
(38:39):
So I was afraid to leave, eventhough it was a situation that
was bad.
I did not know that.
The unknown seemed almostuntenable and that kept me also,
you know, yeah, it really didthe devil.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
the devil, you know?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Yeah, because you know how I am.
I don't like change.
I'm change averse.
I've been in my job for thelast 20 years.
I have had my hair the same wayfor 40 years, whatever I just I
don't like change.
And you know, I settle intosomething that's pleasurable for
me and I kind of stay in it,even in this situation I said
(39:26):
I'll make.
Do you know I didn't realizethat what was in me was the
ability to thrive.
You know that term is like he'sblocking.
He was blocking me for real,because it really wasn't until I
was out of that situation did Irealize that I had the capacity
(39:50):
to love in the way that I hadnot in so many years Wow, you
know, in such a long time andreceive love?
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
That part you had mentioned in a few episodes ago
that one of the things that yourfuture self would thank you for
is that your, yourrelationships, you, they do not.
Still there's.
(40:24):
There's not anger that is is.
Your memories of theserelationships are not like mired
in anger and so on.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
And I think that's really good.
Yeah, I'm not taking bitternessinto my current love
relationship.
You know I'm really trying hardto see it as a new opportunity
and leaving a lot of thatsadness and baggage you know,
and it's not easy.
I'm getting therapy right nowand I talk to my therapist about
(40:58):
it and I'm like you sure you,sure you know.
What do you think?
Speaker 1 (41:02):
about, by the way, therapy and much of all the good
things.
The Bible says every good thing, every good blessing comes from
the Lord.
Therapy is one of those things.
We are proponents of, goodtherapy.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Good counsel, because we don't have all the answers.
That's right, it is not inopposition to our faith.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
Why why?
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Why you can please get your therapy.
Yeah, please get your therapy.
So that is helping you to moveinto this joy place the way my
(41:52):
heart swells when I know thatyou are.
You're putting your mentalhealth, your joy, your desires
for joy.
You're giving it so muchpriority in your life right now.
(42:13):
Yeah, Listen for as long asyou've known him.
As a matter of fact, you and Imet him together.
We won't go into the story, butyou and I met him together, so
I have known him for as long asyou have.
Yeah, by the day, by the day.
By the day yeah by the day bythe day, by the day, and the
(42:47):
things, the ways that I'veseen're not there, but I'm
saying, you know, we don't thinkabout sometimes, when we're in,
a thing that there could be,there could be and what I would
suggest, if you let joy reallytake, you know, take the wheel,
(43:13):
you know, take the wheel and you, you, you know, if you hear
this, this, this, these sayingsthat I'm using, joy to me is
divine, it is from the divineright.
If you let that take the wheel,it will help you put so many
things in your rearview mirror,things that you never thought,
when you're in it, that therewould be a life, a big, full,
(43:36):
joyful life, on the other side.
And knowing what I know aboutwhat you've been through,
knowing what you know about whatI've been through, that we can
look at some of these things tothe and come out, you know, and
we have, we have, we have some,some, some, some scars, but
they're not scars that areinterfering, they're scars that
let us know that we can surviveshit.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Yeah, and you know what I mean Scars.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Exactly that's right, and you know that's right.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Back in the rearview mirror and you're like what the
hell you know it's like, why did?
Like what the hell you knowit's like why did.
But I think that everyexperience, especially something
so profound as this, it'suseful.
It's God put you in thesesituations for a reason.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
That's right, yep.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
You know it's not time wasted.
Yeah, yeah, you always have toask God what is the lesson?
You're in the thing, what isthe?
Speaker 1 (44:33):
lesson.
That posture to me is whatsaved me every time.
Every time is not to, is not tokind of, stay in a woe is me,
but God, like I know you, youknow it before it happened.
Like what would you have melearn in this situation?
About myself, about the otherperson, all the?
Speaker 2 (44:55):
things.
Sure, you can only imagine meand my, you know, having been
married for so long.
Yeah, I'm like why did I staythen?
Why did you know?
It's like I wasted so much timeno time is wasted.
No time is wasted.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
You know, while you're alive, there's no time
wasted.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
If you're learning from it whenyou know more, you do better.
Yeah, if you're learning fromit, doom scrolling for the rest
of your life.
I think that's wasteful.
Just you know, we're justmaking sure that's clear, all
right, very good, very good.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
So now I think we're both on the joy side of this
particular, I think, thisrelationship, yeah, this
particular fear.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
I think I'm good.
I don't think I'm perfect interms of you know, things will
(46:06):
come up in my new relationship.
Your're good.
I think that we are both of uson this journey of continual
improvement, self-improvement,self-awareness, self-improvement
that cycle, what we have goingforward in relationships.
We may have our thing, we willhave our thing, but they will
look very different.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
Than what we've been through, and that's lessons
learned.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Amen to that.
Let me ask you this.
A question for me, no.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Would you?
Speaker 2 (46:24):
marry again, oh who would I marry again.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Oh boy, les, all right, you can think about it.
Yes, yes, I would, you would, Iwould, I would, I would.
I would do it for verydifferent reasons.
I would do it for verydifferent reasons.
I would do it for verydifferent reasons.
(46:58):
And so I, I I'm going to thinkabout it good and hard, because
I don't want it to be, I don'twant it to have the same.
I'm going to say it this way, Idon't totally mean it.
I don't want it to have the sametrappings as why I got married
before oh no, I, you know what Imean, absolutely this, this,
(47:20):
this one will be different, andum, there is some work that I
have to do, um, before that, butum, but yeah, yeah, because um,
I'm in love and love feels goodand and it feels um.
You know, it feels, uh, like um, but it feels.
(47:47):
It feels like flow, it feelslike flow, it feels like flow.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Yeah, I hear you.
Good for you, babe, all right.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
How are we on time?
We're good.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Yeah, we're good, but I think we're good.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
What else you want to say anything?
Speaker 2 (48:02):
I have said it all.
You have said it all.
Actually, I'll say this what?
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Ooh, isn't this one a doozy?
We're telling all the peopleall the things, but that's what
we do.
We are truth tellers and we arejoy seekers and we will
continue to do that.
There is a bit more to thisepisode that is reserved for our
Patreon subscribers.
Leslie and I both do some morerevealing, and she shared a bomb
(48:38):
show I didn't even know.
I didn't even know.
Listen, by becoming a subscriber, you really help us to fund
this podcast.
It is our way of meeting someof the expenses that we have for
bringing this content to you.
We've been doing this foralmost three years now and your
support would really be helpful.
You can subscribe at the $5 or$10 level.
(48:58):
Just head on over to Patreonthat's P-A-T-R-E-O-N and do a
search for Besties Quad SquadB-E-S-T-I-E-S-Q-U-A-D-S-Q-U-A-D.
Who came up with that name?
That was Leslie, but it was socute.
It was a take on the Mod Squad.
(49:19):
Anyway, head on over to Patreon, become a subscriber.
We would really appreciate itand, best of all, hear the big
news that Leslie shared with oursubscriber group.
Thanks, All right.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
This has been another episode of Black Boomer.
Besties from Brooklyn, brooklynLeave comments.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Tell us what you think.
Come on now.
What do you think?
Disagree with us?
Do something, yeah, come on.
Bye.
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