September 23, 2025 • 50 mins
The Besties explore their fears about moving to Panama while choosing to let joy shine through instead of letting fear take control. This candid conversation reveals their concerns about relocating abroad and how they're working through them to embrace this life-changing adventure.
Chapter Markers:
0:00 Reconnecting and Introduction
2:39 Fears About Language Barriers
15:20 Missing Family and Leaving Children
20:05 Career Identity and Financial Concerns
29:14 Death Planning and Residency Status
35:14 Living Together in Close Quarters
46:25 Privilege of Options and Final Thoughts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Hey Ange, hey Les, how are you doing today Look?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
at you.
First of all, we haven'trecorded in quite some time, so
here we are and look, youdecided to dress like me, listen
you know, hold on.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Is that what you were to work?
Because I've had this on allday.
I've had this on since 20 to.
I've had this on since, so thishas nothing to do 20 to 7 am
640.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
So you noted that time because you wanted it to be
clear that I was biting, thatyou were biting, and you know,
when I get to work I take myclothes off and put on scrubs.
So yeah, probably fresher thanyours.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Oh, okay, that's okay .
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Anything will be up, it's okay.
So listen, listen, listen,listen.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
My eyes are starting to Tear because you're so happy
to see me.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, yeah, Okay that's why Ange yes, in addition
to Ange, what is it that I callyou like as a nickname?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I noticed it recently and I really like it.
Like, what do I call you?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
as a term of endearment.
You say hey, pally, pally,that's it Pally.
I like that You're my Pally.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah.
Yeah, I like it too.
You got me crying now, but Iknow.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, but it's okay, I'm here for you.
I appreciate that so guys,welcome to another episode of
Black Boomer Besties fromBrooklyn.
Listen, we did this little chitchat because this is how we do.
She's confronting me again.
We chit chat, okay, she's yousee what she?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
okay, hi, I'm Angela and that's Leslie, my best
friend of almost 40 years.
It's 50 years.
See, I even forgot the intro.
I'm going to start over.
Hi, I'm Angela and that's Leslie, my best friend of almost 50
years.
We are two free-thinking60-something-year-old Black
(02:04):
women who have decided to bemore bold and joyful in our
lives for the rest of our lives,and we invite you to join us on
our journey and also to get onyour journey.
So we're going to be talkingabout I think this is the last
of our series on joy over fearand things that you know, the
(02:25):
fears that kind of can interruptor defer or just kind of kibosh
our joy, and how we have madedecisions and are making
decisions to let joy shinethrough.
And this one this week is goingto be about our fears about
moving abroad.
(02:46):
We're going, so we are gettingover the fear and doing it
anyway, but we did want to talkabout some of the things that we
were still really, reallyconcerned about when we were
just talking about joy over fearand deciding to talk a little
bit more in depth about ourplanned move out of the country
(03:11):
to Panama.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I don't want it to seem, and it almost, I think in
retrospect we kind of presentedit like okay, we're ready, this
is going to be cake, this isgoing to be good, we have all
our ducks lined up and all allbecause there's quite a few
people that are reallyconsidering leaving the country
for various reasons and we don'twant it.
(03:34):
We don't want to give the falseimpression that it's a cakewalk
.
It's like this is this analogyI use all the time.
It's like this is not easy.
I only make it look easy, youknow.
So I really think it's a goodidea to really present some of
the not just the inner speechthat we've had with ourselves,
(03:57):
but the things that we've talkedabout to each other, about some
of the hesitations or concernsthat we have and I have a few.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, I have a few too, and these are actual fears.
Right, and again, I'm going tokeep repeating this that we
don't think a life without fearis really true.
We don't really believe thatyou can be fearless, or we don't
.
I don't even know what thatmeans really.
I think what that means, withwhat people are trying to say
(04:28):
when they say be fearless orthose types of things, is that
you, you can move through yourfear.
But we want to just kind ofhighlight that fear is not
something to avoid.
If you are not doing somethingbecause you're fearful, that's
eh.
The thing is, you're going tofeel the fear, but how do you
(04:52):
move through it to get to theplace of joy?
And so it is important for usto talk about the fears, because
, although we're moving forwardwith this pretty bold decision,
we still have fears that we haveto put in their place and move
through them.
So we're just going to bereally honest about them, and
(05:16):
they're important and sometimesthey are gripping.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I was just going to say something like that.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
They come up in prayer quite a bit where I ask
God for peace about it.
But yeah, so do you want tostart, or do you want me to
start the?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
only other thing in general I want to say about fear
is not that we're suggesting orit's a good idea to ignore
fears, because fear is there fora reason.
It almost asks us to raise ourspidey senses about something
and perhaps give it more even ifit starts as a stirring, to
give it a little bit moreconsideration.
(05:53):
So we're not saying that wewant to totally eradicate fear.
We want to be in tune to it,pay attention to it and then
move through it.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
So I'll start.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
One of the things that I was thinking about more
clearly and would make me alittle nervous about being in
Panama, is that I don't speakthe language fluently, and I was
recently reminded of howalienated I could feel in
(06:27):
another language when I attended, via Zoom, the homegoing
service of a loved one there,and the service was in Spanish.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Without subtitles.
Without subtitles.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Without subtitles.
So, in addition to being in theemotion of the moment, I was
also straining to understand thewords you know that the leader
was saying and I just it made methink of a few things.
One, how uncomfortable I feltbecause I couldn't be fully
(07:11):
present.
But I've often thought about,and I think in terms of my work
I work.
One of the hospitals I work inhas a predominant Latino and
Latina population and I wouldsay more way more, actually,
than half of them do not speakany or much English.
(07:35):
So I've had to step up my gamein terms of speaking Spanish.
A lot of it medical terminology,but not always.
And I often say howuncomfortable it must be being
in a medical situation where youcan be so otherwise vulnerable
(07:59):
for other reasons, and then notlearning, not knowing the
Spanish, the English language,and so often you're embarrassed.
The patients are a little bitembarrassed or, you know,
they'll more often nod theirhead when perhaps they don't
have a full understanding of itand they just accept it.
(08:22):
So I put myself in thatposition.
I think I really need to stepup my game in increasing my
fluency in Spanish.
The other thing that thatbrings up a couple of things.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Well, I want to say something about that before you
move on.
So I was watching something onsocial media the other day and
it was maybe it was a trailer toa movie, I don't remember, but
it was this woman from Brazil,so Portuguese is her first
(09:00):
language and she's learningEnglish and you know a part of
language.
Are these idioms which havethis meaning?
They don't.
They don't really make senseLiterally.
For example, what's what's agood idiom?
What's a good example of anidiom?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Put all your eggs in one basket.
What's a good example of an?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
idiom Put all your eggs in one basket.
Put all your eggs in one basket, perfect, right, so things like
that.
So she said something and itcaused her friend, who's an
English speaker, to laugh.
You know, because it was funny.
And the non-native Englishspeaker said and the non-native
(09:44):
English speaker said you knowwhere I come from?
In my native language I'mbrilliant, I'm a poet, I have a
command of the language.
It's a part of who I am.
I speak beautifully and here Iam, and I know it's not your
intention, but you're laughingat me.
I speak beautifully and here Iam.
(10:05):
Wow, and I know it's not yourintention, but you're laughing
at me.
It's like I've lost a piece ofmyself.
Oh, my.
She said Wow, and so it reallystruck me as a because we do
that here, intentionally or not,intentionally or not, we put
some sense of intelligencearound how fluently people speak
(10:31):
.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
English, and not just intelligence, but superiority.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Superiority.
It speaks in terms of class.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yes, Obviously.
I see it in the way medicalcare is delivered.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Right, right, right, yeah.
So I was thinking about thatkind of adding that onto it, and
you actually talked about whatwe can do to work around this,
and it is to learn the language,to learn the language.
To learn the language and whatmy experience in Mexico in the
(11:08):
nineties?
I lived there for about fourmonths and I got fluent, and I
know my own experience hastaught me that being immersed.
So you, you do your own workright To to, to learn the
language, because I had aSpanish teacher there and my
work colleagues would only speakto me in Spanish, so I was
(11:30):
forced to do the hardest part,which is speaking it versus just
understanding it or being ableto read it and I was forced to
speak it and I got fluent,because when you know a part of
why you don't want to speak, oh,I don't want to make a mistake.
When you get on a bus and youwant to get to where you're
(11:50):
getting to and you have to saythe word, however flawed it is,
you're going to say the word asbest you can.
And they're going to correctyou or they're going to ask you,
and then it's locked.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Or laugh at you.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
All the things right.
So I'm hopeful that beingimmersed in the language and I
do not want to kind of fall onthe the gadgets that we use and
you know, and expect them to, um, to learn my language.
You know, I'm grateful if theymeet me a part of the way, but
(12:26):
this idea of so, it is reallyscary it is really scary to be
in a place where you don't know,where you don't know the
language.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, I mean, I think I speak enough that I can be
safe.
Yeah, you're really get around.
(13:00):
Yeah, but're really good.
You know how alpha and dominantI can be, or try to be right,
really, really.
My partner's first language isSpanish and I often see people
here where one of the twopartners speak English fluently
(13:23):
and they have to depend on thatperson to navigate the medical
care.
So even in the interview, well,we give them the option of
using an official translator,but if they opt not to and ask
to use a family member,sometimes they use a child.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I would not feel comfortable depending on my
partner.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Leslie, you better let go.
She don't care about that, butwhat?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
are the skull and crossbones.
What does that mean?
Oh, it's okay, it's okay, justjust take it.
Yeah sure you know having todefend the things that I think
about.
Let me tell you I it's not thefirst time I've been in this
situation because my formerspouse, he too, english was not
(14:26):
his first language.
So I was very often in the roomwith my in-laws and I was also
asking what are they saying?
I learned a little bit but Iwas like what are they saying?
You know, what did they say?
You know, again, quite avulnerable position to be in, if
you know.
(14:46):
If that you know, it wasn't.
They were friendly and stuff,and most times when I was around
they spoke English, but therewere times where they were kind
of into it.
So, yeah, that part of it, youknow, going there and depending
(15:07):
on my partner initially before Ibecame fluid, right, it makes
me a little nervous.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Okay, you're a little nervous, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
All right, what else?
Well, I started, you can gobecause I have more.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Oh, I have fears.
So one of the fears I have ismy children.
They're adults.
They're 22, 28, and 30.
I have fears about how much I'mgoing to miss them and although
(15:45):
I have no idea at this pointwhether I'm going to see them
less or more frequently when Imove, because one of the reasons
for why Panama is such a goodoption is because it's not that
far away from the U S right Um,but one of my um, two of my
children are on the West coastUm, so it's that it's missing
(16:11):
them and the other part of it isleaving them.
It's leaving them here whenthere's so much uncertainty here
and like.
I'm going to run back and if Iwere here I would put on a cape
and go save them.
You know whatever.
So I know that that's going tobe a really big adjustment.
Just the idea of being in adifferent country where they may
(16:37):
not have access to me and I maynot have access to them, that
creates a lot of kind of lump inthe throat.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah, lump in the throat for me, I understand that
access to them that creates alot of kind of lump in the
throat.
Yeah, yeah, lump in the throatfor me.
I understand that.
Yeah, I've thought about thatfor a while, because you know we
are the only ones leaving,right.
You know, and we're leaving thefamily here, right right.
I wasn't that concerned aboutthat per se because I see the
(17:17):
world as getting so much smaller.
Yeah, right right.
And be more connected.
That's true, you know.
In that way, you probably, youknow, will be as far away from
your firstborn here than youwould be if you were.
(17:37):
You know, if you stayed here.
In terms of your distance awayfrom the two on the West Coast,
yeah, you know, in terms of soit's kind of easy to move around
the world, especially this partof the world.
So far, there's not that muchdifficulty in that.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
And sometimes fear is not logical.
That's the other thing.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Oh shoot, Let me tell you about my experience.
I don't care what you'retelling me about that.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
You are absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I don't care, I'm so worried, I get it, I get it.
You should have seen me inTortugera in Costa Rica with the
bugs.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry you had that experience,
Liz.
Every time I think about it,laughter comes up.
But it's not laughing at you,it is just the idea of I think I
would just pass, I think Iwould faint.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
I was never.
I think that was the mostscared I was ever in my life.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Wow, even growing up in Brooklyn, really.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
And the thing that made it worse was that I
couldn't pass out because I knewif I stayed there, you know,
then they would be on me, youknow.
But the other thing is that hedidn't realize at the time that
I was really serious and howmuch of a fear of bugs that I
had.
They were huge, they were youknow like much of a fear of bugs
that I had.
They were huge, they were youknow like, and they were
(19:07):
Plentiful.
Yeah, I'm not even going to sayI told you that the next
morning, when they were all dead, the pile was up above your
knees.
The piles of them, I can't Ican't.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
I guess you experience it once, right, it
was like biblical lotus, locusts, lotus.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I wouldn't mind lotus , flowers, locusts, but anyway.
So what was my point about that?
Did I bring up the most fearfultime I've ever experienced?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
It's created like a break in the synapse.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
But I have another one.
Is it my turn or your turn?
It's your turn.
But go Two things.
I'm thinking of One thing whenI leave, I will be leaving my
work.
Thinking of One thing when Ileave, I will be leaving my work
.
And those of you who know meknow how much I enjoy my work.
(20:08):
So I'm not necessarily callingit a retirement because that
sounds so final.
I do not plan to practicemedicine in Panama, right, you
can't anyway.
But so much of who I am, what Ienjoy, my identity is, as of
(20:29):
here, my stature in thecommunity, the way people see me
.
I am this healer, I am thisphysician.
I do plan to go there and notbe that, right, you know, I kind
of want to blend in a littlebit more and be Joe Schmoe, but
that's different for me.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
You know that's going to be very different for me.
Yeah, you know my type Apersonality.
I wonder if I'm really able torelax and not have an agenda or
be in the OR at 7 am or this orthat.
You know, I'm nervous aboutthat.
I'm trying to like wind downand, just you know, be a little
(21:13):
bit more introspective in thatregard.
You know, right, right.
So that's a fear and a bigconcern that I have.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Of course.
And then when I?
Speaker 1 (21:24):
leave the workforce.
If I decide to come back, howeasy would it be for me to slide
back into it in terms of myskill sets or how long I'm away
or the changes that might happen?
You know I remain a Black woman, physician, you know, and we
don't have it easy in general.
(21:45):
So leaving and coming back, Imight have a little bit more
resistance to just that flowback into the workforce if
that's what I choose to do.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
That's what I'm thinking.
Yeah, I get that.
And it made me think about somefears that come up around money
and because when you mentionedthat to me before, you were like
(22:18):
, well, what if?
Because I'm like, well, you'reretired, so why are you thinking
about coming back and working?
And you're like, well, what ifI want to get this, or what if I
want to get that, and I want tojust work a little bit to get
that, and so on.
And so two things One is you'reretired.
Number one You're retired,number one.
(22:56):
Number two it is the.
I was thinking about this personin the Exodus Summit community
that I'm a part of.
She mentioned that she hasenough, enough money squared
away for retirement and she hadsome fears around you know, the
what ifs right, the I may needmore, and what if I get sick,
and all of those things.
And I was wondering why thoseparticular things are not really
(23:25):
big fears for me, and I thinkit's because and I know we're
not talking about what's not afear, but I know that that type
of thing is a real point of fear, for other people live without
this stuff, like 99% of thepeople live without these things
(24:08):
, and I see people living goodlives without all of these
things that we think we need tohave in place here.
And I know it's not like well,just so, just forget about it.
I'm not suggesting that, but Iwas just kind of wow, I.
(24:29):
It's one thing to to think aboutthose things and to try to have
those in place, and it'sanother thing to really fear
them.
I think that's the distinctionthat I want to make is being
mindful of them versus fearingthem.
And so that came to mind whenyou were talking about, well, if
I need to come back to earnmore money or whatever, and it's
(24:53):
like, girl, you got enoughmoney, what are you talking
about?
You just, you just want to havethe thing and the money.
Well, that's just it.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I think once we I get used to living with less
requiring less, right we I youknow he and I have talked about
what are we going to do with ourvehicles?
Yeah, we are not bringing fivecars to Panama, right?
You know what I?
(25:23):
mean or however many cars wehave.
Yeah, so we will have one, ormaybe we will have two.
You know one for each of us,but not more than that.
You know, right, right, and notlikely the cars that we own
currently.
Right, you know what I mean.
But in order to be comfortablewith a narrower life, let's just
(25:49):
I'll call it narrow.
Yeah, not that it's not in ajudgy way, but just less stuff,
less complicated.
You have to get from where youare right now to that.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yes, you do, and it's that transitional period that
might be uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
So it's the anticipation of being
uncomfortable.
For example, when I was inGhana a few times, they don't
have electricity all the time.
You know they actually rent orsell some of their electricity
for income.
You know they sell it to otherregions.
(26:27):
So I remember being like it isknown that Wednesdays at 6 pm
you have no electricity untilthe next morning.
You plan for it, but of coursethe first Wednesday I was there
with no electricity.
It was a little uncomfortable.
It's like, okay, what are wegoing to do now?
Oh, my goodness, it's going toget hot.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
It's going to get hot .
How many times did you turn onand turn off the light switch?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
You know it's that kind of thing.
I remember when, when we hadHurricane Sandy here, you know
my spouse at the time was soused to into television and
stuff.
There is no power anywhere onthe East Coast.
Wow, he never let go of theremote.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Just in case he never let go of the remote.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Just in case you know .
So we become creatures of habitand we wonder, and then it
becomes difficult to separatethe needs from the wants.
Yes, you know so that's whatI'm talking about.
I know I can live with less andbe comfortable and this and you
know slide into that, but it'sgoing to get a little itchy.
(27:40):
Yeah, you know, initially.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, no, I get that I get that.
Well, another thing that is onmy list of fears, and kind of
fears and figuring out, isaround death and dying Right,
it's not like I have so muchinformation about it here.
Are you sick?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Are you trying to tell me something?
I'm not sick.
Are you going there to likelive your life?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I'm feeling very well .
I'm feeling great Good We'lltalk about.
Maybe on the next episode we'lltalk about this fasting
lifestyle that I'm trying toadopt.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, about this fasting lifestyle that I'm
trying to adopt.
Yeah, and then I'll talk aboutmy new way of moving my body.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Okay, ooh, podcast episode.
So just the process, what youknow it's like.
Where do I begin Right?
Death is, death is, death is,is is an absolute.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
So it can't be avoided.
We don't leave this worldwithout it.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I'm thinking about things like how do I put things
in place?
What legal things do I have tohave in place so that my
children have access to myremains, for example, right or
even and this is a part aboutbeing an immigrant where do you
(29:13):
want to, where do you want yourremains to go when you die?
Like I, I wouldn't necessarilywant them to go back to Jamaica.
I, you know, I feel like I'vejust been away from it, from
there for so long and do I wantmy remains to be at a place that
(29:36):
my children can go and visit?
And those types of things justspin and spin and spin in my
head and I have to landsomewhere.
But that is kind of one of thefears I have about how that gets
figured out.
And oftentimes, when we havefears about something, we don't
(29:56):
deal with it, and that's how wedeal with it by not dealing with
it.
But I don't want that.
I want to have some plans inplace so that I can make it easy
for them.
And yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I was just thinking about that, them.
And yeah, I was just thinkingabout that.
When you said fear, I wassaying like you know how your
anxiety around finances?
You got a money coach, right,and I'm like hey, maybe you can
get a death coach.
And then it's like wait aminute, we know a death doula.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yes, we're going to put a link to that.
We know a death doula.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Yeah, and I know they will be helpful to put in some
of the legwork and paperwork, asthough you were not leaving.
You know.
(31:18):
You know how I've always talkedabout, you know, having link to
our discussion with Carl Chen,about putting those papers and
things in place for your finalwishes and things be like
something as an appendix, youknow to.
Yeah, well, when I'm in thiscountry, this is what we do.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
To get back to the main document, Maybe, maybe,
yeah, so got to figure that outagain.
We're, we're, we're movingthrough the fear and getting to
the joy side.
But you know, we we got to face, we got to face the fear, so
that was a really big one for me.
So I was just there a few weeksago and hmm, and you got your
(32:15):
permanent residency.
I got my permanent residency,Whoop, whoop.
And I have to say that and thisisn't a fear thing, it's
actually the opposite.
It just feels so right.
It makes the what do I have todo to figure these fear things
(32:39):
out so I can live that way?
It makes it more oh, that's soexciting.
You know it makes it morepressing, more.
Okay, you're going to do this.
You got to figure that stuffout because it's just drawing me
so strongly and yeah, it's alittle torturous for me, and I
(33:00):
mean right now.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
we live hundreds of miles apart, so we don't see
each other.
But when you're out of thecountry, it feels like you're in
the Far East, like you knowwhat I mean.
It's so it's like I can't waittill she gets back.
It's like wait a minute whenshe gets back.
It's not like I'm going to seeher.
You're not going to come ring mybell, right, but it's like it
(33:24):
just feels so weird to me, soyou being out of the country
before I get out of the country,it's just.
That's a little bit of a fearthat I have that we won't be
able to see each other, eventhough we don't see each other
that often, but as often as wedo.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Right, you're right.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah, we'll figure it out.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
We'll figure it out.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Here's another concern I have, what I'm trying
to think of a way how todescribe it.
So I'm moving out there with mypartner.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Yes, am I and we've decided you and I have decided
that we're going to live closeto each other, because why move
out together if we're going?
to be on other parts of thecountry, so I'm sure you won't
be in Boquete while I'm in thecity Panama City or whatever.
We'll be within smellingdistance of each other, but I
(34:27):
want to know when you're cookingbacon.
That's why you go.
But but it's really just goingto be me and him, you know
together, and this type ofone-on-one long-term
(34:47):
togetherness, like I've alwayssaid, it's easy, I can share.
I can comfortably share a spacewith a partner.
If we have a large home, right,so I like my alone time.
We have a large home Right, soI like my alone time, and he
does too, right?
So I'm anticipating not havinga very big frilly home.
(35:09):
I want something a littlecompact and cozy or whatever.
So that much time shoulder toshoulder and together, it makes
me nervous.
You know, because it's not likeI can call Eb and say hey let's
hang out, or you know my otherpals, and it's like let's go out
for a drink, I'll meet you inthe city, or this or that you
(35:29):
know, because not enough of usare going to be there at the
time.
And I know I'll make friends,yes, but you know, being there
just the two of us, it's likesink or swim, make or break.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
You know it's like.
This is the test, you know?
Yeah, you know I'm nervousabout that.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
So how are you going to plan?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
for that, Right?
Well, that's something I'mthinking about too.
So how are you going to planfor you needing space?
Speaker 1 (36:02):
So so one, I'm going to learn Spanish so that when I
hear him on the phone sayingEste mujer necesita llevar, I'll
know I'll do it like this.
(36:24):
Oh, my goodness oh my god, youknow, but you know, I don't, I
wanted to are you gonna?
(36:45):
Translate it.
This woman has to go.
Oh, I thought you didn't know.
I know what it meant.
This woman needs to leave.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Yes, needs to leave right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
But the good thing about our relationship, which is
different from my previous one,is that we really communicate
well.
Yeah yeah, and I think that'sgoing to be the key.
You know honesty and stuff andyou know human beings.
We need our alone time and weneed our peace.
So, you know, I really need tomaintain as much independence
(37:26):
when I'm there as possible and,again, learning the language is
going to be a key to that.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Right right, I was watching gosh.
I wish I remembered thiscouple's name, but I've been
kind of.
For years now.
I've seen programs with them onit.
I'd say they're still prettyyoung, probably in their late
30s black couple and they weretalking about.
(37:56):
You know the fact that you knowyou choose to be together for
the rest of your life.
That's one thing, but the otherside of that is choosing that
you'll never be alone and theidea that, wow, I will never,
(38:18):
never have opportunities to notbe together.
Looking at that from a, there'ssometimes that I don't want to
be with anyone.
I don't want to be together.
I want to do things on my own.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
I want to have you know my own space.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
As you said, my partner and I are both creative
so it's like you know we needspace to to do that stuff and I
was just kind of thinking that,yeah, you can get, you can get a
home that can accommodate thatand maybe I like to make things.
So I was like I wonder if thereare any maker communities there
(39:15):
or in any areas in the citywhere I could become a hours,
you know, once a week, threetimes a month, where I go and
just be in community with otherpeople doing things like that
and not feeling like, you know,it's only this one person that
has to Right.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Right, it's just the two of us, and yeah, yeah,
because.
I'll be kind and say he willget tired of me, oh he will get
tired of me.
You're no day at the beach youknow, I was at work today and I
was just complaining and I'mlike I was trying to get a new
(39:48):
ultrasound machine, because theultrasound machine that I use is
just awful and old.
And the administrator said tome well, nobody else complains,
you know, wow.
And I'm thinking to myself ofcourse they don't.
First of all, they're dudes andthey don't give much a shit, I
(40:11):
said, but the other thing, it'slike I'm always the one to the
squeaky wheel.
I'm always the one to enactchange, to get something, to say
you know, enough is enough.
Can we stop doing it this wayand take the scotch tape off and
buy a new wire or whatever?
(40:33):
You know, for example, I'malways the one.
So they say, well, nobody elsecomplains?
Of course not.
I hate that response.
And then I was saying um, les,you are always complaining.
It's like I told you, and Isaid this in a previous podcast.
Sometimes I get tired ofhearing myself complain.
(40:54):
It's like you again, stop it,stop it.
But you know, I just I justlike things a certain way.
And I think there's a right wayand a wrong way.
And why take shortcuts?
And you know it's like whenagain.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
I'm laughing.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
I don't know what you're gonna say I um, while I
was moving out of my former homeyou know, after I separated I
kept going in our closet to getthings and every time I went in
the closet for nine months Iflicked on the light and the
(41:44):
bulb was out and I would have touse my phone if it was dark out
and you know I would have myphone in the closet and I'm like
(42:08):
, but you know it was achandelier in the closet and I'm
like why?
But it was a chandelier in thedressing room that I installed,
so it wasn't the regular bulb,it was the three little
candelabra rolls.
So what right they weren't magicbulbs.
You didn't have to import themfrom the Philippines.
(42:32):
They didn't have to come on atruck from India, you know, by
camel.
So every time I'm like, okay,click, and I didn't say anything
because I didn't live thereanymore.
But I'm just saying like man,if I lived here I would talk
(42:55):
about this light bulb every dayand I'm like what would it take
just to get light?
The man needed light.
The closet was full of hisclothing at that point, oh my
goodness, it's like I get it,but that's me.
wait, can I just say one other?
Oh my goodness, so that's,that's like I get it, but that's
me.
Can I just say one other thing?
Now?
I'm throwing shade, but I'mgoing to say cause.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
It's the funniest thing.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
One of the times I went in there.
One of the times.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
I went in there there was a small lamp on the floor.
Oh no, oh no, no.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
You know, the worst part about it is like first of
all, just ask me I can tell youwhat light bulbs that go with it
.
But not just that.
I bet you you know how men are.
They don't look for nothing.
Not just that, I bet you youknow how men are.
They don't look for nothing.
Right, I keep light bulbs ofall different sizes, yes In a
cabinet, labeled.
All you have to do is reachbehind.
I know I would not be in thehouse without the proper candles
(44:05):
for light bulbs for all thelights.
Right, right, it was in thehouse.
Oh my gosh, it was in the house.
Oh my gosh, it was in the house.
Wow, so anyway, but yeah, I'mthat guy.
It's like if I was at work Iwould be like right now I can't
go back in the OR right now, getthe light bulbs right now.
I told you about the papertowels over the sink.
(44:28):
You did, you did.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
You did.
I got to go to a different sink.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Why there's paper towels in the building.
Oh my gosh Anyway.
But yeah, sometimes I do gettired of myself hearing myself.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Yeah, it's okay, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Do we have any other fears?
Listen, this poor guy, and hesays it, he says it.
He's like poor me.
Poor me, because I'm like couldyou imagine?
I'm all you got.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
It's okay, hallelujah .
Speaker 1 (45:02):
No, he'll just retreat to his sisters.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
You know he'll be like Les.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I'm like I'll go too.
I'll call no, I'll go by myself.
I'm like I'll go too.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
I'll call, I'll say no, I'll go by myself.
I'm like Les, he's over here,he's in the store.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
He's over there drinking Corona.
I wonder why he didn't inviteme.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
I just gave him some ginger beer.
He's good, he's good.
Just leave him alone for awhile.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Leave him alone for a while.
He's fine, but we're going todo okay.
But you know, we just got towork through those kind of
things, you know.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, for real, yeah, it's getting real, just some
other things.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
You know, it's not really big fears, but you know
getting the banking stuff workedout and you know Concerns.
Are you concerned about that?
I'm excited about that part.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Not concerned, but it's kind of sometimes I feel a
little overwhelmed at the longlist the checklist and there's
some big things that have tohappen before you know the
actual move right.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
It's deciding what's going, what's staying and making
the arrangements and every timeyou check off something on the
list.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
You start learning about what's next on the list,
that you get more detail aboutthe next five things that you
have to do.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
That's true, that's true.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
So it's that, but again it is.
This is what has to happen toget that big J-O-Y, the big joy.
So we're just going to get themdone.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
And here's another thing that I was thinking what a
privilege it is for us to beable to speak and plan in this
way Big deal, and I thank Godfor having options.
Yes, thank you, father.
There are so many people.
Yes, thank you, father, thereare so many people.
(47:18):
It really almost makes mereally sad just to think about
the people who have no options.
They don't have ease ofmovement.
We are planning to move out ofa country that we've known I've
known all my life, you know,you've known most of your life
(47:38):
because so much of the climateright now is intolerable to us
and we have the privilege andthe freedom to walk away.
Not that we're just quitting,because that's another thing
that I have difficulty with.
It's like this is my fuckingcountry.
You know, nobody owns thiscountry more than I do.
(48:01):
Nobody has any more right tothis place than I do, and I
don't want it to seem like I'mgiving up.
And I don't want it to seemlike I'm giving up.
(48:48):
I am just freedom and I'mblessed to be able to make.
They just want to eat, theyjust want shelter.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
And here I'm wondering how to move things
from one place to maybe mysecond or third place, or my
fourth place.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I thank god for having theoption of even this considering
to do this, so how dare I?
Speaker 2 (49:25):
complain.
You know, you know, yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah, you know it's and I
you.
I don't see this conversationas complaint.
It's like whatever situationyou're in, you have to deal with
what's in front of you, rightand?
(49:48):
And to kind of fake it and say,oh, because you have this
privilege, then everything issmooth sailing.
It's not, you know, and yeah,so anyway yeah, that's it it's
(50:09):
about to go down.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
It's about to go down .
It's about to go down.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
It's about to go down .
Speaker 1 (50:13):
It's about to go down .
We're doing this, we'll keepyou guys posted.
Boom.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
We'll keep you guys posted and we appreciate you
hanging with us, and this hasbeen another episode of Black
Boomer.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
Besties from Brooklyn , brooklyn.
Hey Ange, hey Les, how are you doing today Look?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
at you.
First of all, we haven'trecorded in quite some time, so
here we are and look, youdecided to dress like me, listen
you know, hold on.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Is that what you were to work?
Because I've had this on allday.
I've had this on since 20 to.
I've had this on since, so thishas nothing to do 20 to 7 am
640.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
So you noted that time because you wanted it to be
clear that I was biting, thatyou were biting, and you know,
when I get to work I take myclothes off and put on scrubs.
So yeah, probably fresher thanyours.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Oh, okay, that's okay .
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Anything will be up, it's okay.
So listen, listen, listen,listen.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
My eyes are starting to Tear because you're so happy
to see me.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Yeah, yeah, Okay that's why Ange yes, in addition
to Ange, what is it that I callyou like as a nickname?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I noticed it recently and I really like it.
Like, what do I call you?
Speaker 1 (01:11):
as a term of endearment.
You say hey, pally, pally,that's it Pally.
I like that You're my Pally.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah.
Yeah, I like it too.
You got me crying now, but Iknow.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Yeah, but it's okay, I'm here for you.
I appreciate that so guys,welcome to another episode of
Black Boomer Besties fromBrooklyn.
Listen, we did this little chitchat because this is how we do.
She's confronting me again.
We chit chat, okay, she's yousee what she?
Speaker 2 (01:43):
okay, hi, I'm Angela and that's Leslie, my best
friend of almost 40 years.
It's 50 years.
See, I even forgot the intro.
I'm going to start over.
Hi, I'm Angela and that's Leslie, my best friend of almost 50
years.
We are two free-thinking60-something-year-old Black
(02:04):
women who have decided to bemore bold and joyful in our
lives for the rest of our lives,and we invite you to join us on
our journey and also to get onyour journey.
So we're going to be talkingabout I think this is the last
of our series on joy over fearand things that you know, the
(02:25):
fears that kind of can interruptor defer or just kind of kibosh
our joy, and how we have madedecisions and are making
decisions to let joy shinethrough.
And this one this week is goingto be about our fears about
moving abroad.
(02:46):
We're going, so we are gettingover the fear and doing it
anyway, but we did want to talkabout some of the things that we
were still really, reallyconcerned about when we were
just talking about joy over fearand deciding to talk a little
bit more in depth about ourplanned move out of the country
(03:11):
to Panama.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I don't want it to seem, and it almost, I think in
retrospect we kind of presentedit like okay, we're ready, this
is going to be cake, this isgoing to be good, we have all
our ducks lined up and all allbecause there's quite a few
people that are reallyconsidering leaving the country
for various reasons and we don'twant it.
(03:34):
We don't want to give the falseimpression that it's a cakewalk
.
It's like this is this analogyI use all the time.
It's like this is not easy.
I only make it look easy, youknow.
So I really think it's a goodidea to really present some of
the not just the inner speechthat we've had with ourselves,
(03:57):
but the things that we've talkedabout to each other, about some
of the hesitations or concernsthat we have and I have a few.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, I have a few too, and these are actual fears.
Right, and again, I'm going tokeep repeating this that we
don't think a life without fearis really true.
We don't really believe thatyou can be fearless, or we don't
.
I don't even know what thatmeans really.
I think what that means, withwhat people are trying to say
(04:28):
when they say be fearless orthose types of things, is that
you, you can move through yourfear.
But we want to just kind ofhighlight that fear is not
something to avoid.
If you are not doing somethingbecause you're fearful, that's
eh.
The thing is, you're going tofeel the fear, but how do you
(04:52):
move through it to get to theplace of joy?
And so it is important for usto talk about the fears, because
, although we're moving forwardwith this pretty bold decision,
we still have fears that we haveto put in their place and move
through them.
So we're just going to bereally honest about them, and
(05:16):
they're important and sometimesthey are gripping.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I was just going to say something like that.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
They come up in prayer quite a bit where I ask
God for peace about it.
But yeah, so do you want tostart, or do you want me to
start the?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
only other thing in general I want to say about fear
is not that we're suggesting orit's a good idea to ignore
fears, because fear is there fora reason.
It almost asks us to raise ourspidey senses about something
and perhaps give it more even ifit starts as a stirring, to
give it a little bit moreconsideration.
(05:53):
So we're not saying that wewant to totally eradicate fear.
We want to be in tune to it,pay attention to it and then
move through it.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
So I'll start.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
One of the things that I was thinking about more
clearly and would make me alittle nervous about being in
Panama, is that I don't speakthe language fluently, and I was
recently reminded of howalienated I could feel in
(06:27):
another language when I attended, via Zoom, the homegoing
service of a loved one there,and the service was in Spanish.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Without subtitles.
Without subtitles.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Without subtitles.
So, in addition to being in theemotion of the moment, I was
also straining to understand thewords you know that the leader
was saying and I just it made methink of a few things.
One, how uncomfortable I feltbecause I couldn't be fully
(07:11):
present.
But I've often thought about,and I think in terms of my work
I work.
One of the hospitals I work inhas a predominant Latino and
Latina population and I wouldsay more way more, actually,
than half of them do not speakany or much English.
(07:35):
So I've had to step up my gamein terms of speaking Spanish.
A lot of it medical terminology,but not always.
And I often say howuncomfortable it must be being
in a medical situation where youcan be so otherwise vulnerable
(07:59):
for other reasons, and then notlearning, not knowing the
Spanish, the English language,and so often you're embarrassed.
The patients are a little bitembarrassed or, you know,
they'll more often nod theirhead when perhaps they don't
have a full understanding of itand they just accept it.
(08:22):
So I put myself in thatposition.
I think I really need to stepup my game in increasing my
fluency in Spanish.
The other thing that thatbrings up a couple of things.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Well, I want to say something about that before you
move on.
So I was watching something onsocial media the other day and
it was maybe it was a trailer toa movie, I don't remember, but
it was this woman from Brazil,so Portuguese is her first
(09:00):
language and she's learningEnglish and you know a part of
language.
Are these idioms which havethis meaning?
They don't.
They don't really make senseLiterally.
For example, what's what's agood idiom?
What's a good example of anidiom?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Put all your eggs in one basket.
What's a good example of an?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
idiom Put all your eggs in one basket.
Put all your eggs in one basket, perfect, right, so things like
that.
So she said something and itcaused her friend, who's an
English speaker, to laugh.
You know, because it was funny.
And the non-native Englishspeaker said and the non-native
(09:44):
English speaker said you knowwhere I come from?
In my native language I'mbrilliant, I'm a poet, I have a
command of the language.
It's a part of who I am.
I speak beautifully and here Iam, and I know it's not your
intention, but you're laughingat me.
I speak beautifully and here Iam.
(10:05):
Wow, and I know it's not yourintention, but you're laughing
at me.
It's like I've lost a piece ofmyself.
Oh, my.
She said Wow, and so it reallystruck me as a because we do
that here, intentionally or not,intentionally or not, we put
some sense of intelligencearound how fluently people speak
(10:31):
.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
English, and not just intelligence, but superiority.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
Superiority.
It speaks in terms of class.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yes, Obviously.
I see it in the way medicalcare is delivered.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Right, right, right, yeah.
So I was thinking about thatkind of adding that onto it, and
you actually talked about whatwe can do to work around this,
and it is to learn the language,to learn the language.
To learn the language and whatmy experience in Mexico in the
(11:08):
nineties?
I lived there for about fourmonths and I got fluent, and I
know my own experience hastaught me that being immersed.
So you, you do your own workright To to, to learn the
language, because I had aSpanish teacher there and my
work colleagues would only speakto me in Spanish, so I was
(11:30):
forced to do the hardest part,which is speaking it versus just
understanding it or being ableto read it and I was forced to
speak it and I got fluent,because when you know a part of
why you don't want to speak, oh,I don't want to make a mistake.
When you get on a bus and youwant to get to where you're
(11:50):
getting to and you have to saythe word, however flawed it is,
you're going to say the word asbest you can.
And they're going to correctyou or they're going to ask you,
and then it's locked.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Or laugh at you.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
All the things right.
So I'm hopeful that beingimmersed in the language and I
do not want to kind of fall onthe the gadgets that we use and
you know, and expect them to, um, to learn my language.
You know, I'm grateful if theymeet me a part of the way, but
(12:26):
this idea of so, it is reallyscary it is really scary to be
in a place where you don't know,where you don't know the
language.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, I mean, I think I speak enough that I can be
safe.
Yeah, you're really get around.
(13:00):
Yeah, but're really good.
You know how alpha and dominantI can be, or try to be right,
really, really.
My partner's first language isSpanish and I often see people
here where one of the twopartners speak English fluently
(13:23):
and they have to depend on thatperson to navigate the medical
care.
So even in the interview, well,we give them the option of
using an official translator,but if they opt not to and ask
to use a family member,sometimes they use a child.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I would not feel comfortable depending on my
partner.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Leslie, you better let go.
She don't care about that, butwhat?
Speaker 1 (14:03):
are the skull and crossbones.
What does that mean?
Oh, it's okay, it's okay, justjust take it.
Yeah sure you know having todefend the things that I think
about.
Let me tell you I it's not thefirst time I've been in this
situation because my formerspouse, he too, english was not
(14:26):
his first language.
So I was very often in the roomwith my in-laws and I was also
asking what are they saying?
I learned a little bit but Iwas like what are they saying?
You know, what did they say?
You know, again, quite avulnerable position to be in, if
you know.
(14:46):
If that you know, it wasn't.
They were friendly and stuff,and most times when I was around
they spoke English, but therewere times where they were kind
of into it.
So, yeah, that part of it, youknow, going there and depending
(15:07):
on my partner initially before Ibecame fluid, right, it makes
me a little nervous.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Okay, you're a little nervous, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
All right, what else?
Well, I started, you can gobecause I have more.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Oh, I have fears.
So one of the fears I have ismy children.
They're adults.
They're 22, 28, and 30.
I have fears about how much I'mgoing to miss them and although
(15:45):
I have no idea at this pointwhether I'm going to see them
less or more frequently when Imove, because one of the reasons
for why Panama is such a goodoption is because it's not that
far away from the U S right Um,but one of my um, two of my
children are on the West coastUm, so it's that it's missing
(16:11):
them and the other part of it isleaving them.
It's leaving them here whenthere's so much uncertainty here
and like.
I'm going to run back and if Iwere here I would put on a cape
and go save them.
You know whatever.
So I know that that's going tobe a really big adjustment.
Just the idea of being in adifferent country where they may
(16:37):
not have access to me and I maynot have access to them, that
creates a lot of kind of lump inthe throat.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah, lump in the throat for me, I understand that
access to them that creates alot of kind of lump in the
throat.
Yeah, yeah, lump in the throatfor me.
I understand that.
Yeah, I've thought about thatfor a while, because you know we
are the only ones leaving,right.
You know, and we're leaving thefamily here, right right.
I wasn't that concerned aboutthat per se because I see the
(17:17):
world as getting so much smaller.
Yeah, right right.
And be more connected.
That's true, you know.
In that way, you probably, youknow, will be as far away from
your firstborn here than youwould be if you were.
(17:37):
You know, if you stayed here.
In terms of your distance awayfrom the two on the West Coast,
yeah, you know, in terms of soit's kind of easy to move around
the world, especially this partof the world.
So far, there's not that muchdifficulty in that.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
And sometimes fear is not logical.
That's the other thing.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Oh shoot, Let me tell you about my experience.
I don't care what you'retelling me about that.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
You are absolutely right.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I don't care, I'm so worried, I get it, I get it.
You should have seen me inTortugera in Costa Rica with the
bugs.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry you had that experience,
Liz.
Every time I think about it,laughter comes up.
But it's not laughing at you,it is just the idea of I think I
would just pass, I think Iwould faint.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
I was never.
I think that was the mostscared I was ever in my life.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Wow, even growing up in Brooklyn, really.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
And the thing that made it worse was that I
couldn't pass out because I knewif I stayed there, you know,
then they would be on me, youknow.
But the other thing is that hedidn't realize at the time that
I was really serious and howmuch of a fear of bugs that I
had.
They were huge, they were youknow like much of a fear of bugs
that I had.
They were huge, they were youknow like, and they were
(19:07):
Plentiful.
Yeah, I'm not even going to sayI told you that the next
morning, when they were all dead, the pile was up above your
knees.
The piles of them, I can't Ican't.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
I guess you experience it once, right, it
was like biblical lotus, locusts, lotus.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I wouldn't mind lotus , flowers, locusts, but anyway.
So what was my point about that?
Did I bring up the most fearfultime I've ever experienced?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
It's created like a break in the synapse.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
But I have another one.
Is it my turn or your turn?
It's your turn.
But go Two things.
I'm thinking of One thing whenI leave, I will be leaving my
work.
Thinking of One thing when Ileave, I will be leaving my work
.
And those of you who know meknow how much I enjoy my work.
(20:08):
So I'm not necessarily callingit a retirement because that
sounds so final.
I do not plan to practicemedicine in Panama, right, you
can't anyway.
But so much of who I am, what Ienjoy, my identity is, as of
(20:29):
here, my stature in thecommunity, the way people see me
.
I am this healer, I am thisphysician.
I do plan to go there and notbe that, right, you know, I kind
of want to blend in a littlebit more and be Joe Schmoe, but
that's different for me.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
You know that's going to be very different for me.
Yeah, you know my type Apersonality.
I wonder if I'm really able torelax and not have an agenda or
be in the OR at 7 am or this orthat.
You know, I'm nervous aboutthat.
I'm trying to like wind downand, just you know, be a little
(21:13):
bit more introspective in thatregard.
You know, right, right.
So that's a fear and a bigconcern that I have.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Of course.
And then when I?
Speaker 1 (21:24):
leave the workforce.
If I decide to come back, howeasy would it be for me to slide
back into it in terms of myskill sets or how long I'm away
or the changes that might happen?
You know I remain a Black woman, physician, you know, and we
don't have it easy in general.
(21:45):
So leaving and coming back, Imight have a little bit more
resistance to just that flowback into the workforce if
that's what I choose to do.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
That's what I'm thinking.
Yeah, I get that.
And it made me think about somefears that come up around money
and because when you mentionedthat to me before, you were like
(22:18):
, well, what if?
Because I'm like, well, you'reretired, so why are you thinking
about coming back and working?
And you're like, well, what ifI want to get this, or what if I
want to get that, and I want tojust work a little bit to get
that, and so on.
And so two things One is you'reretired.
Number one You're retired,number one.
(22:56):
Number two it is the.
I was thinking about this personin the Exodus Summit community
that I'm a part of.
She mentioned that she hasenough, enough money squared
away for retirement and she hadsome fears around you know, the
what ifs right, the I may needmore, and what if I get sick,
and all of those things.
And I was wondering why thoseparticular things are not really
(23:25):
big fears for me, and I thinkit's because and I know we're
not talking about what's not afear, but I know that that type
of thing is a real point of fear, for other people live without
this stuff, like 99% of thepeople live without these things
(24:08):
, and I see people living goodlives without all of these
things that we think we need tohave in place here.
And I know it's not like well,just so, just forget about it.
I'm not suggesting that, but Iwas just kind of wow, I.
(24:29):
It's one thing to to think aboutthose things and to try to have
those in place, and it'sanother thing to really fear
them.
I think that's the distinctionthat I want to make is being
mindful of them versus fearingthem.
And so that came to mind whenyou were talking about, well, if
I need to come back to earnmore money or whatever, and it's
(24:53):
like, girl, you got enoughmoney, what are you talking
about?
You just, you just want to havethe thing and the money.
Well, that's just it.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
I think once we I get used to living with less
requiring less, right we I youknow he and I have talked about
what are we going to do with ourvehicles?
Yeah, we are not bringing fivecars to Panama, right?
You know what I?
(25:23):
mean or however many cars wehave.
Yeah, so we will have one, ormaybe we will have two.
You know one for each of us,but not more than that.
You know, right, right, and notlikely the cars that we own
currently.
Right, you know what I mean.
But in order to be comfortablewith a narrower life, let's just
(25:49):
I'll call it narrow.
Yeah, not that it's not in ajudgy way, but just less stuff,
less complicated.
You have to get from where youare right now to that.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yes, you do, and it's that transitional period that
might be uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
So it's the anticipation of being
uncomfortable.
For example, when I was inGhana a few times, they don't
have electricity all the time.
You know they actually rent orsell some of their electricity
for income.
You know they sell it to otherregions.
(26:27):
So I remember being like it isknown that Wednesdays at 6 pm
you have no electricity untilthe next morning.
You plan for it, but of coursethe first Wednesday I was there
with no electricity.
It was a little uncomfortable.
It's like, okay, what are wegoing to do now?
Oh, my goodness, it's going toget hot.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
It's going to get hot .
How many times did you turn onand turn off the light switch?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
You know it's that kind of thing.
I remember when, when we hadHurricane Sandy here, you know
my spouse at the time was soused to into television and
stuff.
There is no power anywhere onthe East Coast.
Wow, he never let go of theremote.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Just in case he never let go of the remote.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Just in case you know .
So we become creatures of habitand we wonder, and then it
becomes difficult to separatethe needs from the wants.
Yes, you know so that's whatI'm talking about.
I know I can live with less andbe comfortable and this and you
know slide into that, but it'sgoing to get a little itchy.
(27:40):
Yeah, you know, initially.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, no, I get that I get that.
Well, another thing that is onmy list of fears, and kind of
fears and figuring out, isaround death and dying Right,
it's not like I have so muchinformation about it here.
Are you sick?
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Are you trying to tell me something?
I'm not sick.
Are you going there to likelive your life?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I'm feeling very well .
I'm feeling great Good We'lltalk about.
Maybe on the next episode we'lltalk about this fasting
lifestyle that I'm trying toadopt.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, about this fasting lifestyle that I'm
trying to adopt.
Yeah, and then I'll talk aboutmy new way of moving my body.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Okay, ooh, podcast episode.
So just the process, what youknow it's like.
Where do I begin Right?
Death is, death is, death is,is is an absolute.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
So it can't be avoided.
We don't leave this worldwithout it.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
I'm thinking about things like how do I put things
in place?
What legal things do I have tohave in place so that my
children have access to myremains, for example, right or
even and this is a part aboutbeing an immigrant where do you
(29:13):
want to, where do you want yourremains to go when you die?
Like I, I wouldn't necessarilywant them to go back to Jamaica.
I, you know, I feel like I'vejust been away from it, from
there for so long and do I wantmy remains to be at a place that
(29:36):
my children can go and visit?
And those types of things justspin and spin and spin in my
head and I have to landsomewhere.
But that is kind of one of thefears I have about how that gets
figured out.
And oftentimes, when we havefears about something, we don't
(29:56):
deal with it, and that's how wedeal with it by not dealing with
it.
But I don't want that.
I want to have some plans inplace so that I can make it easy
for them.
And yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I was just thinking about that, them.
And yeah, I was just thinkingabout that.
When you said fear, I wassaying like you know how your
anxiety around finances?
You got a money coach, right,and I'm like hey, maybe you can
get a death coach.
And then it's like wait aminute, we know a death doula.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yes, we're going to put a link to that.
We know a death doula.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Yeah, and I know they will be helpful to put in some
of the legwork and paperwork, asthough you were not leaving.
You know.
(31:18):
You know how I've always talkedabout, you know, having link to
our discussion with Carl Chen,about putting those papers and
things in place for your finalwishes and things be like
something as an appendix, youknow to.
Yeah, well, when I'm in thiscountry, this is what we do.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
To get back to the main document, Maybe, maybe,
yeah, so got to figure that outagain.
We're, we're, we're movingthrough the fear and getting to
the joy side.
But you know, we we got to face, we got to face the fear, so
that was a really big one for me.
So I was just there a few weeksago and hmm, and you got your
(32:15):
permanent residency.
I got my permanent residency,Whoop, whoop.
And I have to say that and thisisn't a fear thing, it's
actually the opposite.
It just feels so right.
It makes the what do I have todo to figure these fear things
(32:39):
out so I can live that way?
It makes it more oh, that's soexciting.
You know it makes it morepressing, more.
Okay, you're going to do this.
You got to figure that stuffout because it's just drawing me
so strongly and yeah, it's alittle torturous for me, and I
(33:00):
mean right now.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
we live hundreds of miles apart, so we don't see
each other.
But when you're out of thecountry, it feels like you're in
the Far East, like you knowwhat I mean.
It's so it's like I can't waittill she gets back.
It's like wait a minute whenshe gets back.
It's not like I'm going to seeher.
You're not going to come ring mybell, right, but it's like it
(33:24):
just feels so weird to me, soyou being out of the country
before I get out of the country,it's just.
That's a little bit of a fearthat I have that we won't be
able to see each other, eventhough we don't see each other
that often, but as often as wedo.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Right, you're right.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah, we'll figure it out.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
We'll figure it out.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Here's another concern I have, what I'm trying
to think of a way how todescribe it.
So I'm moving out there with mypartner.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Yes, am I and we've decided you and I have decided
that we're going to live closeto each other, because why move
out together if we're going?
to be on other parts of thecountry, so I'm sure you won't
be in Boquete while I'm in thecity Panama City or whatever.
We'll be within smellingdistance of each other, but I
(34:27):
want to know when you're cookingbacon.
That's why you go.
But but it's really just goingto be me and him, you know
together, and this type ofone-on-one long-term
(34:47):
togetherness, like I've alwayssaid, it's easy, I can share.
I can comfortably share a spacewith a partner.
If we have a large home, right,so I like my alone time.
We have a large home Right, soI like my alone time, and he
does too, right?
So I'm anticipating not havinga very big frilly home.
(35:09):
I want something a littlecompact and cozy or whatever.
So that much time shoulder toshoulder and together, it makes
me nervous.
You know, because it's not likeI can call Eb and say hey let's
hang out, or you know my otherpals, and it's like let's go out
for a drink, I'll meet you inthe city, or this or that you
(35:29):
know, because not enough of usare going to be there at the
time.
And I know I'll make friends,yes, but you know, being there
just the two of us, it's likesink or swim, make or break.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
You know it's like.
This is the test, you know?
Yeah, you know I'm nervousabout that.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
So how are you going to plan?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
for that, Right?
Well, that's something I'mthinking about too.
So how are you going to planfor you needing space?
Speaker 1 (36:02):
So so one, I'm going to learn Spanish so that when I
hear him on the phone sayingEste mujer necesita llevar, I'll
know I'll do it like this.
(36:24):
Oh, my goodness oh my god, youknow, but you know, I don't, I
wanted to are you gonna?
(36:45):
Translate it.
This woman has to go.
Oh, I thought you didn't know.
I know what it meant.
This woman needs to leave.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Yes, needs to leave right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
But the good thing about our relationship, which is
different from my previous one,is that we really communicate
well.
Yeah yeah, and I think that'sgoing to be the key.
You know honesty and stuff andyou know human beings.
We need our alone time and weneed our peace.
So, you know, I really need tomaintain as much independence
(37:26):
when I'm there as possible and,again, learning the language is
going to be a key to that.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Right right, I was watching gosh.
I wish I remembered thiscouple's name, but I've been
kind of.
For years now.
I've seen programs with them onit.
I'd say they're still prettyyoung, probably in their late
30s black couple and they weretalking about.
(37:56):
You know the fact that you knowyou choose to be together for
the rest of your life.
That's one thing, but the otherside of that is choosing that
you'll never be alone and theidea that, wow, I will never,
(38:18):
never have opportunities to notbe together.
Looking at that from a, there'ssometimes that I don't want to
be with anyone.
I don't want to be together.
I want to do things on my own.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
I want to have you know my own space.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
As you said, my partner and I are both creative
so it's like you know we needspace to to do that stuff and I
was just kind of thinking that,yeah, you can get, you can get a
home that can accommodate thatand maybe I like to make things.
So I was like I wonder if thereare any maker communities there
(39:15):
or in any areas in the citywhere I could become a hours,
you know, once a week, threetimes a month, where I go and
just be in community with otherpeople doing things like that
and not feeling like, you know,it's only this one person that
has to Right.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Right, it's just the two of us, and yeah, yeah,
because.
I'll be kind and say he willget tired of me, oh he will get
tired of me.
You're no day at the beach youknow, I was at work today and I
was just complaining and I'mlike I was trying to get a new
(39:48):
ultrasound machine, because theultrasound machine that I use is
just awful and old.
And the administrator said tome well, nobody else complains,
you know, wow.
And I'm thinking to myself ofcourse they don't.
First of all, they're dudes andthey don't give much a shit, I
(40:11):
said, but the other thing, it'slike I'm always the one to the
squeaky wheel.
I'm always the one to enactchange, to get something, to say
you know, enough is enough.
Can we stop doing it this wayand take the scotch tape off and
buy a new wire or whatever?
(40:33):
You know, for example, I'malways the one.
So they say, well, nobody elsecomplains?
Of course not.
I hate that response.
And then I was saying um, les,you are always complaining.
It's like I told you, and Isaid this in a previous podcast.
Sometimes I get tired ofhearing myself complain.
(40:54):
It's like you again, stop it,stop it.
But you know, I just I justlike things a certain way.
And I think there's a right wayand a wrong way.
And why take shortcuts?
And you know it's like whenagain.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
I'm laughing.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
I don't know what you're gonna say I um, while I
was moving out of my former homeyou know, after I separated I
kept going in our closet to getthings and every time I went in
the closet for nine months Iflicked on the light and the
(41:44):
bulb was out and I would have touse my phone if it was dark out
and you know I would have myphone in the closet and I'm like
(42:08):
, but you know it was achandelier in the closet and I'm
like why?
But it was a chandelier in thedressing room that I installed,
so it wasn't the regular bulb,it was the three little
candelabra rolls.
So what right they weren't magicbulbs.
You didn't have to import themfrom the Philippines.
(42:32):
They didn't have to come on atruck from India, you know, by
camel.
So every time I'm like, okay,click, and I didn't say anything
because I didn't live thereanymore.
But I'm just saying like man,if I lived here I would talk
(42:55):
about this light bulb every dayand I'm like what would it take
just to get light?
The man needed light.
The closet was full of hisclothing at that point, oh my
goodness, it's like I get it,but that's me.
wait, can I just say one other?
Oh my goodness, so that's,that's like I get it, but that's
me.
Can I just say one other thing?
Now?
I'm throwing shade, but I'mgoing to say cause.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
It's the funniest thing.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
One of the times I went in there.
One of the times.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
I went in there there was a small lamp on the floor.
Oh no, oh no, no.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
You know, the worst part about it is like first of
all, just ask me I can tell youwhat light bulbs that go with it
.
But not just that.
I bet you you know how men are.
They don't look for nothing.
Not just that, I bet you youknow how men are.
They don't look for nothing.
Right, I keep light bulbs ofall different sizes, yes In a
cabinet, labeled.
All you have to do is reachbehind.
I know I would not be in thehouse without the proper candles
(44:05):
for light bulbs for all thelights.
Right, right, it was in thehouse.
Oh my gosh, it was in the house.
Oh my gosh, it was in the house.
Wow, so anyway, but yeah, I'mthat guy.
It's like if I was at work Iwould be like right now I can't
go back in the OR right now, getthe light bulbs right now.
I told you about the papertowels over the sink.
(44:28):
You did, you did.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
You did.
I got to go to a different sink.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Why there's paper towels in the building.
Oh my gosh Anyway.
But yeah, sometimes I do gettired of myself hearing myself.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Yeah, it's okay, it's okay.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Do we have any other fears?
Listen, this poor guy, and hesays it, he says it.
He's like poor me.
Poor me, because I'm like couldyou imagine?
I'm all you got.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
It's okay, hallelujah .
Speaker 1 (45:02):
No, he'll just retreat to his sisters.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
You know he'll be like Les.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I'm like I'll go too.
I'll call no, I'll go by myself.
I'm like I'll go too.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
I'll call, I'll say no, I'll go by myself.
I'm like Les, he's over here,he's in the store.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
He's over there drinking Corona.
I wonder why he didn't inviteme.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
I just gave him some ginger beer.
He's good, he's good.
Just leave him alone for awhile.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Leave him alone for a while.
He's fine, but we're going todo okay.
But you know, we just got towork through those kind of
things, you know.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, for real, yeah, it's getting real, just some
other things.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
You know, it's not really big fears, but you know
getting the banking stuff workedout and you know Concerns.
Are you concerned about that?
I'm excited about that part.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Not concerned, but it's kind of sometimes I feel a
little overwhelmed at the longlist the checklist and there's
some big things that have tohappen before you know the
actual move right.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
It's deciding what's going, what's staying and making
the arrangements and every timeyou check off something on the
list.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
You start learning about what's next on the list,
that you get more detail aboutthe next five things that you
have to do.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
That's true, that's true.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
So it's that, but again it is.
This is what has to happen toget that big J-O-Y, the big joy.
So we're just going to get themdone.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
And here's another thing that I was thinking what a
privilege it is for us to beable to speak and plan in this
way Big deal, and I thank Godfor having options.
Yes, thank you, father.
There are so many people.
Yes, thank you, father, thereare so many people.
(47:18):
It really almost makes mereally sad just to think about
the people who have no options.
They don't have ease ofmovement.
We are planning to move out ofa country that we've known I've
known all my life, you know,you've known most of your life
(47:38):
because so much of the climateright now is intolerable to us
and we have the privilege andthe freedom to walk away.
Not that we're just quitting,because that's another thing
that I have difficulty with.
It's like this is my fuckingcountry.
You know, nobody owns thiscountry more than I do.
(48:01):
Nobody has any more right tothis place than I do, and I
don't want it to seem like I'mgiving up.
And I don't want it to seemlike I'm giving up.
(48:48):
I am just freedom and I'mblessed to be able to make.
They just want to eat, theyjust want shelter.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
And here I'm wondering how to move things
from one place to maybe mysecond or third place, or my
fourth place.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I thank god for having theoption of even this considering
to do this, so how dare I?
Speaker 2 (49:25):
complain.
You know, you know, yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah, you know it's and I
you.
I don't see this conversationas complaint.
It's like whatever situationyou're in, you have to deal with
what's in front of you, rightand?
(49:48):
And to kind of fake it and say,oh, because you have this
privilege, then everything issmooth sailing.
It's not, you know, and yeah,so anyway yeah, that's it it's
(50:09):
about to go down.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
It's about to go down .
It's about to go down.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
It's about to go down .
Speaker 1 (50:13):
It's about to go down .
We're doing this, we'll keepyou guys posted.
Boom.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
We'll keep you guys posted and we appreciate you
hanging with us, and this hasbeen another episode of Black
Boomer.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
Besties from Brooklyn , brooklyn.
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