October 7, 2025 • 37 mins
Two best friends trade wildcard questions about possibility, mortality, love, and “enough,” mixing belly laughs with clear-eyed truth. We unpack being overlooked, parenting triggers, belonging in medicine, and building a good life rooted in self-agency and joy.
Thank you for listening. We really appreciate you. And we appreciate our Patreon subscribers too. You can join our Patreon Besties Squad Squad for a five or ten dollar monthly pledge. It helps us, and we can bring new content new content to you.
Chapter Markers
- 0:00
Reunion, Exhaustion, and Warm-Up Banter - 2:54
Who We Are and Why We’re Here - 3:45
The Wildcard Framework Explained - 5:05
Possibility vs. Limits: “Nothing’s Unreachable” - 7:35
Mortality and Radical Preparedness - 10:45
Being Overlooked and Proving Yourself - 13:07
Motherhood, Boundaries, and Defensiveness - 16:00
Age, Love, and the Art of Letting In - 19:04
Belonging in Medicine and Family - 21:30
Working With Difference Without Friction - 24:20
Defining a Good Life and “Enough” - 35:40
Gratitude and Patreon Sign-Off
Want behind the scenes content? Join us on Patreon at $5 or $10 level:
https://patreon.com/user?u=83534204
Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
Hey Ange.
Hey Les, how are you?
We are back together again.
Pseudo together, virtuallytogether.
Yeah, but we haven't recordedtogether.
SPEAKER_02 (00:14):
We haven't recorded in a long time.
We pre-fronted stuff because wewere traveling.
You were traveling.
I didn't go anywhere.
But um but man, this is awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27):
I know.
It's hey girl, hey! Hey girl,hey! I've been super busy
working on a production at oneof the universities in my state,
and it um opened last night wasopening night.
So as a designer, you stay untilopening night, then someone else
kind of does the run of theshow.
(00:48):
And so I am tie red.
Yeah.
But I'm happy to be here.
SPEAKER_02 (00:54):
I'm tired also.
I got home at well, you and Iwere on the phone.
I got home about what, 1.30 orso from work this morning.
And yes, I did call you becauseI knew you were up.
You're not out.
And and didn't get to bed, sleepuntil like after two.
But I was up at 4:30 to the gym.
(01:17):
Impressed.
SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
So impressive.
Wait, what's that over there?
What's what's that over there?
What?
Do that again.
Let me see.
Nope.
I want the other hand over hereso I know you're not pushing it
up.
The other side.
I know your tricks.
I know your tricks.
(01:40):
All right.
Could you introduce us?
You introduce.
Hi, folks.
I'm Angela, and that's Leslie,my best friend of almost 50
years.
We are two free-thinking60-something-year-old black
women, and we've decided to liveour lives more boldly and with
more joy.
And we invite you to come alongwith us on our journey, but also
(02:03):
to get about your joy journeyto.
Today we're going to go back tosomething that we did a few
months ago asking each otherquestions.
We have full full transparency.
We have just kind of did acursory view of the questions.
(02:25):
Leslie doesn't know what I'mgoing to ask her, and um,
because it's a long list, andvice versa.
And we're not going to answerthe same questions, right?
SPEAKER_02 (02:33):
So you know I'm not comfortable with that surprise
element stuff.
Because it's like sometimes Idisclose too much, then I gotta
do it.
SPEAKER_00 (02:43):
No back seats.
We're in it.
We're in it.
It's recorded, so we must bereal.
Yes.
So tell the people about umfirst before you ask them the
question, can you tell themabout the podcast, the the the
framing that we're using?
What podcast idea that we'rewe're drawing from?
I forget the name of it.
SPEAKER_02 (03:03):
Ah so it's Wildcard with Rachel Martin.
And it's one of the um NPR umprograms or stations.
But but there's a couple otherthings that I need to say.
First of all, I didn't let youguys know.
You all know already, though.
We are black boomer besties fromBrooklyn.
(03:26):
I'm a little, let me just betransparent.
I'm a little distracted from myhair.
SPEAKER_01 (03:31):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (03:32):
I'm I'm kind of seeing myself.
SPEAKER_01 (03:35):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (03:35):
I'm just I'm pretty so I'm kind of like like doing
this.
I just washed my hair.
I'm getting on a flight in anhour and a half or whatever.
Whatever.
And um, I washed my hair.
I just kind of twisted it.
I didn't get a chance to finishdrying it yet, and still here I
am.
I'm here for you, guys.
Commitment.
I'm here for you.
(03:55):
But um my hair is still wet,it's in the process of being
done.
So anyway.
SPEAKER_00 (04:01):
And it looks good.
SPEAKER_02 (04:03):
Well, thank you, babe.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
And and you're just telling the people that you're a
human being and you you're alock lady, and so locks take
time to dry and all the things.
So they're just they're justknowing that you have a whole
life, whole full life.
SPEAKER_02 (04:16):
Well, there you go.
SPEAKER_00 (04:17):
And you still look amazing.
So with the what?
SPEAKER_02 (04:20):
All right.
Thank you, pal.
Okay.
Shall I ask you the questionfirst?
Yeah, go ahead.
Go ahead.
Oh boy.
I ain't scared.
See, the problem with this is somany of these questions.
I can't I think I know theanswers that you're gonna say.
SPEAKER_00 (04:42):
I've been knowing you for a long time, and you
know, I may I may mix it up.
And the uh listen, not everyonelistening knows me.
So if you think I'm gonna givean amazing answer, choose choose
that one.
Okay, I have I have one that Idon't know the answer.
SPEAKER_02 (04:58):
Okay.
Do I?
No, okay, go ahead.
What feels unreachable to you?
Oh unreachable?
Yes, that's the question.
What feels unreachable to you?
Okay, bet.
SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
Nothing.
Wow.
Honest to God.
I I always thinkimpossibilities.
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (05:30):
I wasn't planning on.
SPEAKER_00 (05:32):
The only time when I don't think something is
possible is when no, not eventhen.
What I was gonna say is when Itry it and it doesn't work, but
I'm never gonna think it beforeI try it.
Or before you know the that Iunderstand.
(05:53):
You know what I mean?
The stuff that that's possiblecome come together.
SPEAKER_02 (05:58):
Like you have to be convinced that it doesn't work
by doing, by trying.
SPEAKER_00 (06:04):
Right.
And because, for example, if I'msaying that it involves someone
and that person dies, okay.
It's not gonna happen, but Ireally am wired to think in
possibilities because I knowthat if if it doesn't happen the
(06:28):
way that kind of quote make themost sense, unquote.
Um, or close quote, the itdoesn't mean that it's that it
can't happen in in in so manyother ways, right?
I I reading the the Bible andseeing things that you never
(06:53):
ever could think would happen,and then you see it happen.
Or um just my experience hastaught me that, and I'm kind of
wired that way to see it.
Like, I I don't think about likeum it's not can I do it, it's
how can I do it.
(07:14):
I hear you.
SPEAKER_02 (07:16):
Yeah, good to have you around.
Yeah, sometimes when I know Ican't do something, I'm like,
Ange.
What you think about?
I capitalized on that for a longtime quite a few times.
SPEAKER_00 (07:33):
I'm just saying, like, look look at look at you
in med school.
I mean, let's just say it again.
You were a single mom 36.
All that time before you werelike, oh, never, could never
happen.
(07:53):
And then you made it happen.
It wasn't like a snap, it wasdoing the work, but yeah, of
course, anything is possible.
And guess what?
I believe in anything ispossible, anything is possible,
and this is how I'll end it.
I will say that nothing is toogood to be true.
(08:14):
That I believe.
Nothing is too big, too good tobe true.
I like that.
SPEAKER_02 (08:18):
I like that.
That's a good motto, too.
That's a good hashtag.
SPEAKER_00 (08:21):
There you go.
SPEAKER_02 (08:22):
Okay, I'm ready for your next question.
Your question.
All right.
I'm a little afraid.
SPEAKER_00 (08:28):
Don't be afraid.
SPEAKER_02 (08:28):
Don't be afraid.
You'll be kind to me.
SPEAKER_00 (08:31):
Oh, I didn't say that, but just don't be afraid.
Just okay.
So my question to you is umwhere'd it go?
Oh, have you made peace withmortality, with your mortality?
SPEAKER_02 (08:50):
Absolutely.
I I finally have.
When I was younger, um, years ordecades ago, it was something
that I feared, perhaps feared tothe point of I don't need to
think about that now.
I'm not going to think aboutthat now.
But when you get to this uhtender age of 63 in your 60s,
(09:14):
you know, I think that my comingto terms with it is being
prepared.
SPEAKER_00 (09:24):
You know, um you've been prepared well, well before.
SPEAKER_02 (09:27):
Well, that's what that's what that's what I mean,
you know, like just beingprepared.
And I don't only meanfinancially, but I mean, you
know, it's like there's not toomany things that I would need to
settle or take care of um if Iwere not gonna be here, you
know, tomorrow or so.
I guess I would need to.
Yeah, even conversations.
(09:48):
Yeah, a couple of that I couldstill have.
But um, you know, I even um Ithink I gave you like the pass
key that the the 50-digit passkey to my Facebook stuff or my
not just Facebook, but the Appleuh Leslie is such nuts a
planner.
SPEAKER_00 (10:07):
Such a planner.
Why you gotta tell all mybusiness?
Listen, you just told what she'ssuch a planner, right?
Like, um if I didn't if I didn'tget to the point in my life
where where I have a decentlevel of confidence, I would
feel so small around her and herher planning is like this and it
(10:35):
extends back and goes back.
Like how you open a fan.
SPEAKER_02 (10:41):
My planning is like this, like the dentist says,
wider, and you're like, it'sopen.
He's like open, it's open.
No, it's not okay.
So I certainly have in answer toyour question.
SPEAKER_00 (10:58):
Okay, good.
I'm ready.
SPEAKER_02 (11:05):
When have you felt overlooked?
SPEAKER_00 (11:09):
Oh wow, overlooked.
Um, definitely.
I'll I'll choose one.
SPEAKER_02 (11:14):
It's there's there's been there's been many with
black people in America.
Many times.
How much time we have.
SPEAKER_00 (11:23):
How much time you have?
Um wait, what day is today?
Many times.
And now at my tender age of 63,I have different ways that I
respond to it, right?
Um, like I remove myself fromsituations.
But when I was younger anddidn't really know how or I was
too concerned about whetherpeople like me or those types of
(11:47):
things, um one was um one was uhin college when I um when I did
really well on a I think it wasa heat and mass transfer class.
(12:15):
Um it was uh it was a tape.
SPEAKER_02 (12:19):
It was a wait, you just gonna just breeze over heat
and transfer.
And mass transit and masstransfer.
It's like I know mass transit.
Um I know heat because I'm kindaget hot flashes, but putting the
two together, heat and masstransit.
(12:40):
Mass transfer.
What language are you speaking?
SPEAKER_00 (12:44):
But anyway, so my heat and okay, so mechanical
engineering, it's it's reallyjust just how heat I understand
flows, you know, like why whythere is why is there like uh um
those slats in front of um uhyour AC or any heating device,
(13:06):
or why is a radiator.
Remember those old timeradiators?
Why are they designed like that?
SPEAKER_02 (13:10):
Oh, yeah, we have in Massachusetts, right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:13):
So you have a lot of surfaces for the the heat mass
tress?
So anyway, tell me about whenyou felt overlooked.
And um, so it was a a take-homeexam.
It was a it was a it was adoozy.
And you know, there were somerules around so you can get it
done.
And I did really well.
(13:35):
And my professor, he was uhwhite South African, and um he
wrote on my paper, he gave me agrade, and he wrote on my paper,
if if it was your own work.
So, you know, you get the A, andthen you get all of this doubt
(13:56):
about your um ability in thesame moment.
You don't even have a second tointuitive the fruits of your
labor.
Well, you know.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, but that was that was I Ifelt overlooked in his class,
(14:17):
um, overlooked, undervalued inhis class.
We were um, I think maybe therewere two or three um black
students in a large class, andyeah, I felt overlooked the
whole time.
That's probably why I did try sohard to do well on on that,
because I understood theconcepts and so on, and then and
(14:39):
then I got that.
So that's one time.
SPEAKER_02 (14:41):
I'm thinking about another, and but we don't have
time, so yes, yeah, there'vebeen there many they have.
Look at my whole Mr.
Rhino story.
Yeah, and you know, I don'treally think of that as
overlooked as much as insulted,you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,mischaracterized.
(15:03):
But we we could do a wholepodcast, wow, about those things
and what it creates in us.
Life what it has created.
Alright, you ready for yours?
SPEAKER_00 (15:17):
No, but I'm not sure.
You're gonna get mad at me, butwe're gonna do it anyway.
SPEAKER_02 (15:22):
Um I sworn to honesty.
Yes, you know how I am about it.
SPEAKER_00 (15:28):
What makes you irrationally defensive?
Irrationally is the operativeword.
Speak the truth and shit.
But it's easy.
SPEAKER_02 (15:39):
I I I actually I thought about that when I um
looked at the question.
I know very much.
I try to tamper it down, but howmuch I overindulge Omari.
unknown (15:57):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (15:57):
You know, and I I think some of the my reasons
might might be irrational abouthow I dote on him and um may
perhaps overly generous orpermissive or whatever, you
know.
So I think I'm irrationallydefensive if people say, you
(16:21):
know, he's a grown-up, you know,why are you supporting him in
that way?
Or why are you helping that, orwhy are you saying that, or
doing that, or whatever, youknow?
It's like he had a um, he has anupcoming uh doctor's
appointment.
And I started to say, can I comewith you?
(16:47):
You know, he is not a child,he's a grown-ass man, but you
know what I mean.
It's like so not that per se,but um so you get defensive
about if people say that I am umYeah, yeah, like he's too much a
somebody um once said to me, youknow, you know Omari's a mama's
(17:07):
boy, and I was like, you know.
Yeah.
I was like they gave a couple ofexamples, I think.
So that would be it for me forreal, for real.
SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
I love it when you do that.
Um ready.
Come on, Leslie, do whatever Imean.
SPEAKER_02 (17:40):
What does age?
What does age teach you aboutlove?
Okay.
These are conversations thatwe've been having for years.
SPEAKER_00 (17:57):
This is what came to me, and this this imagery is
kind of what my partner and Ihave been using, and it
immediately came back to me inthis way.
I feel like throughout my life,especially in this area of love
and all the things that kind ofconnect up to it, self-esteem
(18:21):
and all of those things, right?
That connect up to how youaccept love, how you define it,
all those things.
What it looks like is like apainting.
And you know, sometimes you havea painting and you see a
painting and it's pretty eithersparse or you could tell it's
like one layer, and then you seeother paintings that are that
(18:44):
have ridges, and you know thatthey they did a background and
then they they used acrylics andthey gave it density, and you
can see shadows in it, and andit just gets it's a really kind
of um you could tell that it isa painting that has been built
built upon um versus just beingsingle dimension, single layer,
(19:07):
um, let's say basic.
Um that's how I think about loveand how I have changed, it has
changed in its definition for meover my now six um decades of
life.
And when I say love, I mean inall its forms.
(19:29):
Even, you know, the love for mychildren, right?
I mean, being a when my firstchild was born, um, there was so
much love, and I got so nervousthat when I found out I was
pregnant with my second, I hadthese real fears about I'm gonna
(19:50):
have to take love from the firstone to give to the second one.
How can I, you know, it was thisreal and then I realized that
it's just additive, and that'swhat I I recognize that that's
how God is.
You know, you think how couldGod have, you know, love every
it's it's it's it's not you'renot taking from one to give to
(20:11):
another, it just grows.
SPEAKER_02 (20:12):
Wow, that's that's a deep answer.
SPEAKER_00 (20:15):
Yeah, and so when I think about it in terms of
relationships, it's justlayered, you know.
I had a very kind of um childishunderstanding of love.
It worked, you know, when I wasa child, it worked, but as you
grow and you get to knowyourself and get to know what
you deserve and starting tobelieve that you deserve certain
(20:35):
things, you know, and even likeyou could in this same imagery
of this painting, you could haveall these layers on one section
of the painting and not verymany on like the edges, but you
start filling out the edges.
So it's this constant kind ofadding to an understanding of
(20:55):
the things that you need, whatlove looks like, what this is
the most important thing, andI'll end with this for me is
what you allow in.
Wow.
Um, you know, both what youdon't allow in and what do you
allow in.
Because sometimes I think thatis the that has been like the
(21:16):
biggest issue for me is maybenot recognizing some of the
things that I should haveallowed in and allowing in some
of the things that I shouldn'thave.
SPEAKER_02 (21:27):
Uh-huh.
So it almost sounds like properediting.
SPEAKER_00 (21:31):
Yeah, a good curating, a good culling
sometimes.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's how you um that'show I would.
That was that was okay.
You know, you you kind of godeep there.
SPEAKER_02 (21:48):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (21:48):
All right, you ready?
SPEAKER_02 (21:50):
Uh, I'm ready.
SPEAKER_00 (21:51):
Okay.
Oh boy.
I I won't do that one.
That one is too hard.
SPEAKER_02 (21:59):
Um I beg your pardon.
Yeah, no, I don't know.
No, but but you know howsuperficial I am.
So go ahead.
Thank you for skipping it.
No, no, no.
No, no, no.
You don't want to embarrass yourbestie.
Okay.
You'll ask me a question and Isay yes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:18):
You say B.
Um uh Oh.
Um, when do you feel most likean outsider?
You can answer it in the past orpresent.
Even though it was meant to bepresent.
(22:42):
No, only the present.
I changed I changed theparameters.
SPEAKER_02 (22:47):
Thankfully, I thank God that very rarely do I feel
like an outsider.
You know, can you find that timewhen you a little difficult for
me?
I mean, I could I could bring itin and say, you know, my
experiences as a black um womanin medicine as a physician, you
(23:11):
know, especially inanesthesiology, when I go to
national meetings or localorganizations, there are very
few of me.
So I um I usually use mypersonality, my non-physician
personality to be a little bitmore um friendly than most
(23:35):
people.
You know, many people are, youknow, a little staunchy.
So what do you say, staunchy orwhatever?
You know, they're like buttonedup and they, you know, but you
know, I um I bring mynon-physician personality to the
physician world and interact inthat way.
SPEAKER_01 (23:52):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (23:53):
Um but I would say when I am around um many of my
um, you know, the nationalcolleagues that I don't work
with on a regular basis, I feelum more like an most like an
outsider.
SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (24:12):
I'll tell you another time I felt I felt like
an outsider, but it'shistorical.
As a young person, I often feltlike an outsider in my family.
And one of the reasons was thatum I came f I come from a family
(24:36):
of um educators.
You know, mom is an educator,Monique is an educator, and um
my grandfather was a principal.
So uh as a science head and andmedicine, I didn't feel that I
could personally relateprofessionally on a professional
level, of course I don't meanpersonally, but on a
(24:58):
professional level with the restof my peers because they weren't
into science and math.
You know, I was the only one ofmy siblings and uh immediate
family members who, you know,took to that.
So I there were certainly umways that I was required to
study or conversations that Icould have had about how my day
(25:20):
was or the impact of things likethat that I don't think that my
um family would have understood.
So in that regard, I guess Icould say I would have felt like
an outsider.
SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
Okay.
Fair enough.
Thank you.
You've you you pulled two out ofthat very narrow.
Good job.
unknown (25:38):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
Good job.
SPEAKER_02 (25:40):
What emotion do you understand more than others?
SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
I think I understand how to connect with people who
are different.
Is that an emotion?
Well, it shows up as emotion.
It shows up as emotion becauseum for for many people when they
(26:29):
interact with someone different,there's a lot of anger, there's
a lot of you know, umdisrespect, you know, why do you
do it that way?
Or um when I say other, I meanpeople who are wired
differently, right?
So like we were talking aboutbefore about how you're a
planner.
Um sometimes people who are umreally flexible and can and like
(26:55):
to make spur-the-momentdecisions and things like that,
they get angry at people who arewhat they would say really
tight, you know, like to rein onpeople's parades.
So it comes up to me as emotionbecause there's typically an
emotional response to people whoare different.
People who are more like youoften would say would think of
(27:17):
me as, oh, you don't doanything, you're just full of
ideas, you don't, you know, youget to the point, you're just an
idea person, you know.
That yeah, that type of thing.
Right.
Like you Yes, yes, when come onnow.
Like you get.
So that's why I thought of it asemotion because it it it brings
up an emotional response.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (27:37):
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (27:38):
When people and I have learned, I have learned
this was not this is learning.
I have learned how to work wellwith people who are different
from me and not um and helpother people to do it and not
just immediately go toemotionally, exactly, discount
(28:00):
them, or their opinions don'tmatter, or you know, um they
they're just raining on myparade, you know, that type of
thing.
Um and so all right, that's howI'm gonna answer the question
because that's how it hit me.
You want to redefine it for me?
You want to make it go ahead.
(28:20):
Because you're tune, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (28:22):
What I and you know I'm a very concrete person.
Yes, but the way that I thoughtabout it.
I didn't even see the movie,although I heard that it was
really good.
The the cartoon where there wasthe emotions in the child, and
it was like anger, happy, sad,this.
So when you said when I saidwhat emotion, I immediately
(28:42):
thought of the cartoon that Inever saw.
But um, and I thought that youwere going to say like sadness.
Oh, you know, you know, but doyou want me to answer that?
SPEAKER_00 (28:55):
No, no, no.
Okay, all right.
Thank you, because it's alreadyanswered, right?
I'd like to hear you say it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:00):
Envy.
Thank you.
Envy is what you understand.
Envy is you've been jealous ofme all your life.
Tell the truth.
Tell the truth.
SPEAKER_00 (29:10):
Never, never.
SPEAKER_02 (29:13):
Um, my turn, I guess.
Should this be the lastquestion?
SPEAKER_00 (29:16):
Uh, yeah, because you kind of fight, don't you?
SPEAKER_02 (29:19):
I do.
SPEAKER_00 (29:21):
Okay.
Um What does it mean to live agood life?
I gave you a softball.
What does it mean to a good one?
That is a softball, I think.
Thanks.
No, but um, I'm still I'm gonnaask some follow-up questions.
So go ahead.
You try to softball it and Iwill I will make you dig deeper.
(29:43):
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (29:44):
Go ahead.
Part of the answer invol Well,no, I would say.
Because you didn't ask me, do Ilive a good life?
You just asked, what does itmean?
Okay, I understand.
Okay, I can ask.
Answer that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
I let me read it again.
The question is um what does itmean?
What does it mean to live a goodlife?
A good life.
It's good practice to answer thequestion with the like how I
(30:25):
used to teach Omari to it.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (30:27):
What it means to have a good life is for a person
to have self-agency.
SPEAKER_00 (30:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (30:34):
And what I mean by that is it's self-determination.
unknown (30:39):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (30:39):
If they have the power and the ability, whether
they use it or not, to make gooddecisions or bad decisions for
themselves.
unknown (30:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (30:49):
Um that's a good idea.
I think that I I think that is agood life when you have autonomy
and um and the the rights andthe ability to determine things
for yourself.
Um I'm not going to say thatpeople's mistakes should be
(31:10):
limited per se.
You know, it it almost sounds uhlibertarian in what I mean,
because all the mistakes thatI've made.
No, let me let me say like this.
The two mistakes that I've evermade in my life.
(31:32):
I just want to be honest.
You know, we learn from ourmistakes.
And then again, if you're abeliever, you don't believe that
things, you know, we know thatthings happen for a reason and
you're supposed to w uh have alesson from it.
So anyway, self-agency is one ofthem.
And um, as um Karen Hunter says,freedom to move around the
(31:56):
cabin.
You know, um, and whatever thatmeans to you, it doesn't
necessarily mean financially umthat you have a lot of money.
I I think that having what wecall enough money is uh a good
life.
Um you know what having the loveof people um and the respect of
(32:18):
people also affords a good life,in my opinion.
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (32:22):
So it's interesting because um, you know, I'm from
Jamaica, and so my childhood umand you know, teenage years when
I used to go back prettyregularly, I I saw so many
people living a good life withvery little money.
(32:45):
Um it's like it's not that moneywasn't a factor, but it was you
can go out and you grow yourfood.
The you know, you get mango, youget peer, you get cane, you get
breadfruit, you get pumpkin, youget yam, you get um cocoa, you
(33:06):
know, chocolate from the the thecocoa plant.
You get all of these things areare right there, colorlow, all
those things, you're rightthere.
You have your family, you have aroof over your head.
And you know, you can trade toget the things that you need.
I saw that so much thatespecially now that you know
(33:31):
we're we're getting gearing upfor retirement and we're
thinking about moving abroad,and so and you know, there's
always a conversation aboutwhether you have enough money to
to do these things.
And now, you know, I've been inAmerica for um the the bigger
part of my life, and this ideaaround what is enough, it always
(33:52):
is something that really you youyou really don't think you can,
you know, and I guess it's whatyou're used to and all of that.
I'm just kind of saying that italways kind of hits me as like
you have to take a step back.
With a little conflict, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:08):
You have to take a step back.
I kind of think that when youcome from uh a place like you
described in Jamaica or in otherplaces, met most places around
the world, I would say, youknow, we you you would come here
and it almost like that type ofsatisfaction gets adulterated.
So your perception of enoughchanges.
(34:33):
Right.
You know, I've always lived inthis society, and you know, even
though I've moved in in umdifferent social classes, you
know, I think even thatpromotes, you know, adulteration
of what's enough, really.
You know, we start confusing thewants with the needs.
SPEAKER_00 (34:54):
Yes.
unknown (34:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:55):
And as soon as you turn on a television, you know,
it starts playing with your mindabout what you need versus, you
know, get a car every threeyears because get a phone every
three years because it's newfeature.
The camera is better.
The camera is better.
Who the fuck needs a camera?
You know, it's like, but youknow what I mean.
(35:16):
And then we start longing forthings.
SPEAKER_00 (35:19):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (35:20):
And um, it's all psychological, so much of it.
So, yeah, yeah, good life is umit's so relative.
But I'll tell you, and thisharks back to our plans to move
out of the country.
I really think it's gonna be areset.
SPEAKER_00 (35:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:37):
And as we will have um loved ones with us and other
loved ones a phone call, a videocall, or a plane right away,
yeah.
I think we'll have the uh I praythat we have the opportunity to
really start thinking about umwhat's enough, what's a good
(35:59):
life, and all of that stuff.
And that harks back to thequestion you just asked me
earlier about, you know, do youthink about your own mortality
and stuff?
I want my last days to be in astate of enough and in a state
of joy and not wanting orchasing.
SPEAKER_00 (36:17):
You know, chasing, well, killing.
SPEAKER_02 (36:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Keeping up with, you know what Imean, and things like that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (36:24):
Yeah.
Excellent.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (36:28):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (36:30):
This episode was produced by Leslie Michelle,
who's our OCT.
Ah, thank you.
I guess so.
SPEAKER_02 (36:39):
Good job.
SPEAKER_00 (36:40):
Yeah, you're a producer.
SPEAKER_02 (36:42):
All right.
Well, well, thank you guys.
Thank you for listening.
We really appreciate you.
And we appreciate our Patreonsubscribers too.
Yes.
In fact, we really appreciateyour support.
So you can join our Patreon umBesties Squad Squad for a five
(37:05):
or ten dollar monthly pledge.
We appreciate it.
It helps us, and we can bringnew content new content to you.
So I'll end by saying this hasbeen another episode of Black
Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_01 (37:21):
Brooklyn
Hey Ange.
Hey Les, how are you?
We are back together again.
Pseudo together, virtuallytogether.
Yeah, but we haven't recordedtogether.
SPEAKER_02 (00:14):
We haven't recorded in a long time.
We pre-fronted stuff because wewere traveling.
You were traveling.
I didn't go anywhere.
But um but man, this is awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (00:27):
I know.
It's hey girl, hey! Hey girl,hey! I've been super busy
working on a production at oneof the universities in my state,
and it um opened last night wasopening night.
So as a designer, you stay untilopening night, then someone else
kind of does the run of theshow.
(00:48):
And so I am tie red.
Yeah.
But I'm happy to be here.
SPEAKER_02 (00:54):
I'm tired also.
I got home at well, you and Iwere on the phone.
I got home about what, 1.30 orso from work this morning.
And yes, I did call you becauseI knew you were up.
You're not out.
And and didn't get to bed, sleepuntil like after two.
But I was up at 4:30 to the gym.
(01:17):
Impressed.
SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
So impressive.
Wait, what's that over there?
What's what's that over there?
What?
Do that again.
Let me see.
Nope.
I want the other hand over hereso I know you're not pushing it
up.
The other side.
I know your tricks.
I know your tricks.
(01:40):
All right.
Could you introduce us?
You introduce.
Hi, folks.
I'm Angela, and that's Leslie,my best friend of almost 50
years.
We are two free-thinking60-something-year-old black
women, and we've decided to liveour lives more boldly and with
more joy.
And we invite you to come alongwith us on our journey, but also
(02:03):
to get about your joy journeyto.
Today we're going to go back tosomething that we did a few
months ago asking each otherquestions.
We have full full transparency.
We have just kind of did acursory view of the questions.
(02:25):
Leslie doesn't know what I'mgoing to ask her, and um,
because it's a long list, andvice versa.
And we're not going to answerthe same questions, right?
SPEAKER_02 (02:33):
So you know I'm not comfortable with that surprise
element stuff.
Because it's like sometimes Idisclose too much, then I gotta
do it.
SPEAKER_00 (02:43):
No back seats.
We're in it.
We're in it.
It's recorded, so we must bereal.
Yes.
So tell the people about umfirst before you ask them the
question, can you tell themabout the podcast, the the the
framing that we're using?
What podcast idea that we'rewe're drawing from?
I forget the name of it.
SPEAKER_02 (03:03):
Ah so it's Wildcard with Rachel Martin.
And it's one of the um NPR umprograms or stations.
But but there's a couple otherthings that I need to say.
First of all, I didn't let youguys know.
You all know already, though.
We are black boomer besties fromBrooklyn.
(03:26):
I'm a little, let me just betransparent.
I'm a little distracted from myhair.
SPEAKER_01 (03:31):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (03:32):
I'm I'm kind of seeing myself.
SPEAKER_01 (03:35):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (03:35):
I'm just I'm pretty so I'm kind of like like doing
this.
I just washed my hair.
I'm getting on a flight in anhour and a half or whatever.
Whatever.
And um, I washed my hair.
I just kind of twisted it.
I didn't get a chance to finishdrying it yet, and still here I
am.
I'm here for you, guys.
Commitment.
I'm here for you.
(03:55):
But um my hair is still wet,it's in the process of being
done.
So anyway.
SPEAKER_00 (04:01):
And it looks good.
SPEAKER_02 (04:03):
Well, thank you, babe.
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
And and you're just telling the people that you're a
human being and you you're alock lady, and so locks take
time to dry and all the things.
So they're just they're justknowing that you have a whole
life, whole full life.
SPEAKER_02 (04:16):
Well, there you go.
SPEAKER_00 (04:17):
And you still look amazing.
So with the what?
SPEAKER_02 (04:20):
All right.
Thank you, pal.
Okay.
Shall I ask you the questionfirst?
Yeah, go ahead.
Go ahead.
Oh boy.
I ain't scared.
See, the problem with this is somany of these questions.
I can't I think I know theanswers that you're gonna say.
SPEAKER_00 (04:42):
I've been knowing you for a long time, and you
know, I may I may mix it up.
And the uh listen, not everyonelistening knows me.
So if you think I'm gonna givean amazing answer, choose choose
that one.
Okay, I have I have one that Idon't know the answer.
SPEAKER_02 (04:58):
Okay.
Do I?
No, okay, go ahead.
What feels unreachable to you?
Oh unreachable?
Yes, that's the question.
What feels unreachable to you?
Okay, bet.
SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
Nothing.
Wow.
Honest to God.
I I always thinkimpossibilities.
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (05:30):
I wasn't planning on.
SPEAKER_00 (05:32):
The only time when I don't think something is
possible is when no, not eventhen.
What I was gonna say is when Itry it and it doesn't work, but
I'm never gonna think it beforeI try it.
Or before you know the that Iunderstand.
(05:53):
You know what I mean?
The stuff that that's possiblecome come together.
SPEAKER_02 (05:58):
Like you have to be convinced that it doesn't work
by doing, by trying.
SPEAKER_00 (06:04):
Right.
And because, for example, if I'msaying that it involves someone
and that person dies, okay.
It's not gonna happen, but Ireally am wired to think in
possibilities because I knowthat if if it doesn't happen the
(06:28):
way that kind of quote make themost sense, unquote.
Um, or close quote, the itdoesn't mean that it's that it
can't happen in in in so manyother ways, right?
I I reading the the Bible andseeing things that you never
(06:53):
ever could think would happen,and then you see it happen.
Or um just my experience hastaught me that, and I'm kind of
wired that way to see it.
Like, I I don't think about likeum it's not can I do it, it's
how can I do it.
(07:14):
I hear you.
SPEAKER_02 (07:16):
Yeah, good to have you around.
Yeah, sometimes when I know Ican't do something, I'm like,
Ange.
What you think about?
I capitalized on that for a longtime quite a few times.
SPEAKER_00 (07:33):
I'm just saying, like, look look at look at you
in med school.
I mean, let's just say it again.
You were a single mom 36.
All that time before you werelike, oh, never, could never
happen.
(07:53):
And then you made it happen.
It wasn't like a snap, it wasdoing the work, but yeah, of
course, anything is possible.
And guess what?
I believe in anything ispossible, anything is possible,
and this is how I'll end it.
I will say that nothing is toogood to be true.
(08:14):
That I believe.
Nothing is too big, too good tobe true.
I like that.
SPEAKER_02 (08:18):
I like that.
That's a good motto, too.
That's a good hashtag.
SPEAKER_00 (08:21):
There you go.
SPEAKER_02 (08:22):
Okay, I'm ready for your next question.
Your question.
All right.
I'm a little afraid.
SPEAKER_00 (08:28):
Don't be afraid.
SPEAKER_02 (08:28):
Don't be afraid.
You'll be kind to me.
SPEAKER_00 (08:31):
Oh, I didn't say that, but just don't be afraid.
Just okay.
So my question to you is umwhere'd it go?
Oh, have you made peace withmortality, with your mortality?
SPEAKER_02 (08:50):
Absolutely.
I I finally have.
When I was younger, um, years ordecades ago, it was something
that I feared, perhaps feared tothe point of I don't need to
think about that now.
I'm not going to think aboutthat now.
But when you get to this uhtender age of 63 in your 60s,
(09:14):
you know, I think that my comingto terms with it is being
prepared.
SPEAKER_00 (09:24):
You know, um you've been prepared well, well before.
SPEAKER_02 (09:27):
Well, that's what that's what that's what I mean,
you know, like just beingprepared.
And I don't only meanfinancially, but I mean, you
know, it's like there's not toomany things that I would need to
settle or take care of um if Iwere not gonna be here, you
know, tomorrow or so.
I guess I would need to.
Yeah, even conversations.
(09:48):
Yeah, a couple of that I couldstill have.
But um, you know, I even um Ithink I gave you like the pass
key that the the 50-digit passkey to my Facebook stuff or my
not just Facebook, but the Appleuh Leslie is such nuts a
planner.
SPEAKER_00 (10:07):
Such a planner.
Why you gotta tell all mybusiness?
Listen, you just told what she'ssuch a planner, right?
Like, um if I didn't if I didn'tget to the point in my life
where where I have a decentlevel of confidence, I would
feel so small around her and herher planning is like this and it
(10:35):
extends back and goes back.
Like how you open a fan.
SPEAKER_02 (10:41):
My planning is like this, like the dentist says,
wider, and you're like, it'sopen.
He's like open, it's open.
No, it's not okay.
So I certainly have in answer toyour question.
SPEAKER_00 (10:58):
Okay, good.
I'm ready.
SPEAKER_02 (11:05):
When have you felt overlooked?
SPEAKER_00 (11:09):
Oh wow, overlooked.
Um, definitely.
I'll I'll choose one.
SPEAKER_02 (11:14):
It's there's there's been there's been many with
black people in America.
Many times.
How much time we have.
SPEAKER_00 (11:23):
How much time you have?
Um wait, what day is today?
Many times.
And now at my tender age of 63,I have different ways that I
respond to it, right?
Um, like I remove myself fromsituations.
But when I was younger anddidn't really know how or I was
too concerned about whetherpeople like me or those types of
(11:47):
things, um one was um one was uhin college when I um when I did
really well on a I think it wasa heat and mass transfer class.
(12:15):
Um it was uh it was a tape.
SPEAKER_02 (12:19):
It was a wait, you just gonna just breeze over heat
and transfer.
And mass transit and masstransfer.
It's like I know mass transit.
Um I know heat because I'm kindaget hot flashes, but putting the
two together, heat and masstransit.
(12:40):
Mass transfer.
What language are you speaking?
SPEAKER_00 (12:44):
But anyway, so my heat and okay, so mechanical
engineering, it's it's reallyjust just how heat I understand
flows, you know, like why whythere is why is there like uh um
those slats in front of um uhyour AC or any heating device,
(13:06):
or why is a radiator.
Remember those old timeradiators?
Why are they designed like that?
SPEAKER_02 (13:10):
Oh, yeah, we have in Massachusetts, right?
SPEAKER_00 (13:13):
So you have a lot of surfaces for the the heat mass
tress?
So anyway, tell me about whenyou felt overlooked.
And um, so it was a a take-homeexam.
It was a it was a it was adoozy.
And you know, there were somerules around so you can get it
done.
And I did really well.
(13:35):
And my professor, he was uhwhite South African, and um he
wrote on my paper, he gave me agrade, and he wrote on my paper,
if if it was your own work.
So, you know, you get the A, andthen you get all of this doubt
(13:56):
about your um ability in thesame moment.
You don't even have a second tointuitive the fruits of your
labor.
Well, you know.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, but that was that was I Ifelt overlooked in his class,
(14:17):
um, overlooked, undervalued inhis class.
We were um, I think maybe therewere two or three um black
students in a large class, andyeah, I felt overlooked the
whole time.
That's probably why I did try sohard to do well on on that,
because I understood theconcepts and so on, and then and
(14:39):
then I got that.
So that's one time.
SPEAKER_02 (14:41):
I'm thinking about another, and but we don't have
time, so yes, yeah, there'vebeen there many they have.
Look at my whole Mr.
Rhino story.
Yeah, and you know, I don'treally think of that as
overlooked as much as insulted,you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,mischaracterized.
(15:03):
But we we could do a wholepodcast, wow, about those things
and what it creates in us.
Life what it has created.
Alright, you ready for yours?
SPEAKER_00 (15:17):
No, but I'm not sure.
You're gonna get mad at me, butwe're gonna do it anyway.
SPEAKER_02 (15:22):
Um I sworn to honesty.
Yes, you know how I am about it.
SPEAKER_00 (15:28):
What makes you irrationally defensive?
Irrationally is the operativeword.
Speak the truth and shit.
But it's easy.
SPEAKER_02 (15:39):
I I I actually I thought about that when I um
looked at the question.
I know very much.
I try to tamper it down, but howmuch I overindulge Omari.
unknown (15:57):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (15:57):
You know, and I I think some of the my reasons
might might be irrational abouthow I dote on him and um may
perhaps overly generous orpermissive or whatever, you
know.
So I think I'm irrationallydefensive if people say, you
(16:21):
know, he's a grown-up, you know,why are you supporting him in
that way?
Or why are you helping that, orwhy are you saying that, or
doing that, or whatever, youknow?
It's like he had a um, he has anupcoming uh doctor's
appointment.
And I started to say, can I comewith you?
(16:47):
You know, he is not a child,he's a grown-ass man, but you
know what I mean.
It's like so not that per se,but um so you get defensive
about if people say that I am umYeah, yeah, like he's too much a
somebody um once said to me, youknow, you know Omari's a mama's
(17:07):
boy, and I was like, you know.
Yeah.
I was like they gave a couple ofexamples, I think.
So that would be it for me forreal, for real.
SPEAKER_00 (17:24):
I love it when you do that.
Um ready.
Come on, Leslie, do whatever Imean.
SPEAKER_02 (17:40):
What does age?
What does age teach you aboutlove?
Okay.
These are conversations thatwe've been having for years.
SPEAKER_00 (17:57):
This is what came to me, and this this imagery is
kind of what my partner and Ihave been using, and it
immediately came back to me inthis way.
I feel like throughout my life,especially in this area of love
and all the things that kind ofconnect up to it, self-esteem
(18:21):
and all of those things, right?
That connect up to how youaccept love, how you define it,
all those things.
What it looks like is like apainting.
And you know, sometimes you havea painting and you see a
painting and it's pretty eithersparse or you could tell it's
like one layer, and then you seeother paintings that are that
(18:44):
have ridges, and you know thatthey they did a background and
then they they used acrylics andthey gave it density, and you
can see shadows in it, and andit just gets it's a really kind
of um you could tell that it isa painting that has been built
built upon um versus just beingsingle dimension, single layer,
(19:07):
um, let's say basic.
Um that's how I think about loveand how I have changed, it has
changed in its definition for meover my now six um decades of
life.
And when I say love, I mean inall its forms.
(19:29):
Even, you know, the love for mychildren, right?
I mean, being a when my firstchild was born, um, there was so
much love, and I got so nervousthat when I found out I was
pregnant with my second, I hadthese real fears about I'm gonna
(19:50):
have to take love from the firstone to give to the second one.
How can I, you know, it was thisreal and then I realized that
it's just additive, and that'swhat I I recognize that that's
how God is.
You know, you think how couldGod have, you know, love every
it's it's it's it's not you'renot taking from one to give to
(20:11):
another, it just grows.
SPEAKER_02 (20:12):
Wow, that's that's a deep answer.
SPEAKER_00 (20:15):
Yeah, and so when I think about it in terms of
relationships, it's justlayered, you know.
I had a very kind of um childishunderstanding of love.
It worked, you know, when I wasa child, it worked, but as you
grow and you get to knowyourself and get to know what
you deserve and starting tobelieve that you deserve certain
(20:35):
things, you know, and even likeyou could in this same imagery
of this painting, you could haveall these layers on one section
of the painting and not verymany on like the edges, but you
start filling out the edges.
So it's this constant kind ofadding to an understanding of
(20:55):
the things that you need, whatlove looks like, what this is
the most important thing, andI'll end with this for me is
what you allow in.
Wow.
Um, you know, both what youdon't allow in and what do you
allow in.
Because sometimes I think thatis the that has been like the
(21:16):
biggest issue for me is maybenot recognizing some of the
things that I should haveallowed in and allowing in some
of the things that I shouldn'thave.
SPEAKER_02 (21:27):
Uh-huh.
So it almost sounds like properediting.
SPEAKER_00 (21:31):
Yeah, a good curating, a good culling
sometimes.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's how you um that'show I would.
That was that was okay.
You know, you you kind of godeep there.
SPEAKER_02 (21:48):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (21:48):
All right, you ready?
SPEAKER_02 (21:50):
Uh, I'm ready.
SPEAKER_00 (21:51):
Okay.
Oh boy.
I I won't do that one.
That one is too hard.
SPEAKER_02 (21:59):
Um I beg your pardon.
Yeah, no, I don't know.
No, but but you know howsuperficial I am.
So go ahead.
Thank you for skipping it.
No, no, no.
No, no, no.
You don't want to embarrass yourbestie.
Okay.
You'll ask me a question and Isay yes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:18):
You say B.
Um uh Oh.
Um, when do you feel most likean outsider?
You can answer it in the past orpresent.
Even though it was meant to bepresent.
(22:42):
No, only the present.
I changed I changed theparameters.
SPEAKER_02 (22:47):
Thankfully, I thank God that very rarely do I feel
like an outsider.
You know, can you find that timewhen you a little difficult for
me?
I mean, I could I could bring itin and say, you know, my
experiences as a black um womanin medicine as a physician, you
(23:11):
know, especially inanesthesiology, when I go to
national meetings or localorganizations, there are very
few of me.
So I um I usually use mypersonality, my non-physician
personality to be a little bitmore um friendly than most
(23:35):
people.
You know, many people are, youknow, a little staunchy.
So what do you say, staunchy orwhatever?
You know, they're like buttonedup and they, you know, but you
know, I um I bring mynon-physician personality to the
physician world and interact inthat way.
SPEAKER_01 (23:52):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (23:53):
Um but I would say when I am around um many of my
um, you know, the nationalcolleagues that I don't work
with on a regular basis, I feelum more like an most like an
outsider.
SPEAKER_01 (24:11):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (24:12):
I'll tell you another time I felt I felt like
an outsider, but it'shistorical.
As a young person, I often feltlike an outsider in my family.
And one of the reasons was thatum I came f I come from a family
(24:36):
of um educators.
You know, mom is an educator,Monique is an educator, and um
my grandfather was a principal.
So uh as a science head and andmedicine, I didn't feel that I
could personally relateprofessionally on a professional
level, of course I don't meanpersonally, but on a
(24:58):
professional level with the restof my peers because they weren't
into science and math.
You know, I was the only one ofmy siblings and uh immediate
family members who, you know,took to that.
So I there were certainly umways that I was required to
study or conversations that Icould have had about how my day
(25:20):
was or the impact of things likethat that I don't think that my
um family would have understood.
So in that regard, I guess Icould say I would have felt like
an outsider.
SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
Okay.
Fair enough.
Thank you.
You've you you pulled two out ofthat very narrow.
Good job.
unknown (25:38):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
Good job.
SPEAKER_02 (25:40):
What emotion do you understand more than others?
SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
I think I understand how to connect with people who
are different.
Is that an emotion?
Well, it shows up as emotion.
It shows up as emotion becauseum for for many people when they
(26:29):
interact with someone different,there's a lot of anger, there's
a lot of you know, umdisrespect, you know, why do you
do it that way?
Or um when I say other, I meanpeople who are wired
differently, right?
So like we were talking aboutbefore about how you're a
planner.
Um sometimes people who are umreally flexible and can and like
(26:55):
to make spur-the-momentdecisions and things like that,
they get angry at people who arewhat they would say really
tight, you know, like to rein onpeople's parades.
So it comes up to me as emotionbecause there's typically an
emotional response to people whoare different.
People who are more like youoften would say would think of
(27:17):
me as, oh, you don't doanything, you're just full of
ideas, you don't, you know, youget to the point, you're just an
idea person, you know.
That yeah, that type of thing.
Right.
Like you Yes, yes, when come onnow.
Like you get.
So that's why I thought of it asemotion because it it it brings
up an emotional response.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (27:37):
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (27:38):
When people and I have learned, I have learned
this was not this is learning.
I have learned how to work wellwith people who are different
from me and not um and helpother people to do it and not
just immediately go toemotionally, exactly, discount
(28:00):
them, or their opinions don'tmatter, or you know, um they
they're just raining on myparade, you know, that type of
thing.
Um and so all right, that's howI'm gonna answer the question
because that's how it hit me.
You want to redefine it for me?
You want to make it go ahead.
(28:20):
Because you're tune, go ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (28:22):
What I and you know I'm a very concrete person.
Yes, but the way that I thoughtabout it.
I didn't even see the movie,although I heard that it was
really good.
The the cartoon where there wasthe emotions in the child, and
it was like anger, happy, sad,this.
So when you said when I saidwhat emotion, I immediately
(28:42):
thought of the cartoon that Inever saw.
But um, and I thought that youwere going to say like sadness.
Oh, you know, you know, but doyou want me to answer that?
SPEAKER_00 (28:55):
No, no, no.
Okay, all right.
Thank you, because it's alreadyanswered, right?
I'd like to hear you say it.
SPEAKER_02 (29:00):
Envy.
Thank you.
Envy is what you understand.
Envy is you've been jealous ofme all your life.
Tell the truth.
Tell the truth.
SPEAKER_00 (29:10):
Never, never.
SPEAKER_02 (29:13):
Um, my turn, I guess.
Should this be the lastquestion?
SPEAKER_00 (29:16):
Uh, yeah, because you kind of fight, don't you?
SPEAKER_02 (29:19):
I do.
SPEAKER_00 (29:21):
Okay.
Um What does it mean to live agood life?
I gave you a softball.
What does it mean to a good one?
That is a softball, I think.
Thanks.
No, but um, I'm still I'm gonnaask some follow-up questions.
So go ahead.
You try to softball it and Iwill I will make you dig deeper.
(29:43):
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (29:44):
Go ahead.
Part of the answer invol Well,no, I would say.
Because you didn't ask me, do Ilive a good life?
You just asked, what does itmean?
Okay, I understand.
Okay, I can ask.
Answer that.
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
I let me read it again.
The question is um what does itmean?
What does it mean to live a goodlife?
A good life.
It's good practice to answer thequestion with the like how I
(30:25):
used to teach Omari to it.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (30:27):
What it means to have a good life is for a person
to have self-agency.
SPEAKER_00 (30:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (30:34):
And what I mean by that is it's self-determination.
unknown (30:39):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (30:39):
If they have the power and the ability, whether
they use it or not, to make gooddecisions or bad decisions for
themselves.
unknown (30:49):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (30:49):
Um that's a good idea.
I think that I I think that is agood life when you have autonomy
and um and the the rights andthe ability to determine things
for yourself.
Um I'm not going to say thatpeople's mistakes should be
(31:10):
limited per se.
You know, it it almost sounds uhlibertarian in what I mean,
because all the mistakes thatI've made.
No, let me let me say like this.
The two mistakes that I've evermade in my life.
(31:32):
I just want to be honest.
You know, we learn from ourmistakes.
And then again, if you're abeliever, you don't believe that
things, you know, we know thatthings happen for a reason and
you're supposed to w uh have alesson from it.
So anyway, self-agency is one ofthem.
And um, as um Karen Hunter says,freedom to move around the
(31:56):
cabin.
You know, um, and whatever thatmeans to you, it doesn't
necessarily mean financially umthat you have a lot of money.
I I think that having what wecall enough money is uh a good
life.
Um you know what having the loveof people um and the respect of
(32:18):
people also affords a good life,in my opinion.
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (32:22):
So it's interesting because um, you know, I'm from
Jamaica, and so my childhood umand you know, teenage years when
I used to go back prettyregularly, I I saw so many
people living a good life withvery little money.
(32:45):
Um it's like it's not that moneywasn't a factor, but it was you
can go out and you grow yourfood.
The you know, you get mango, youget peer, you get cane, you get
breadfruit, you get pumpkin, youget yam, you get um cocoa, you
(33:06):
know, chocolate from the the thecocoa plant.
You get all of these things areare right there, colorlow, all
those things, you're rightthere.
You have your family, you have aroof over your head.
And you know, you can trade toget the things that you need.
I saw that so much thatespecially now that you know
(33:31):
we're we're getting gearing upfor retirement and we're
thinking about moving abroad,and so and you know, there's
always a conversation aboutwhether you have enough money to
to do these things.
And now, you know, I've been inAmerica for um the the bigger
part of my life, and this ideaaround what is enough, it always
(33:52):
is something that really you youyou really don't think you can,
you know, and I guess it's whatyou're used to and all of that.
I'm just kind of saying that italways kind of hits me as like
you have to take a step back.
With a little conflict, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:08):
You have to take a step back.
I kind of think that when youcome from uh a place like you
described in Jamaica or in otherplaces, met most places around
the world, I would say, youknow, we you you would come here
and it almost like that type ofsatisfaction gets adulterated.
So your perception of enoughchanges.
(34:33):
Right.
You know, I've always lived inthis society, and you know, even
though I've moved in in umdifferent social classes, you
know, I think even thatpromotes, you know, adulteration
of what's enough, really.
You know, we start confusing thewants with the needs.
SPEAKER_00 (34:54):
Yes.
unknown (34:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:55):
And as soon as you turn on a television, you know,
it starts playing with your mindabout what you need versus, you
know, get a car every threeyears because get a phone every
three years because it's newfeature.
The camera is better.
The camera is better.
Who the fuck needs a camera?
You know, it's like, but youknow what I mean.
(35:16):
And then we start longing forthings.
SPEAKER_00 (35:19):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (35:20):
And um, it's all psychological, so much of it.
So, yeah, yeah, good life is umit's so relative.
But I'll tell you, and thisharks back to our plans to move
out of the country.
I really think it's gonna be areset.
SPEAKER_00 (35:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (35:37):
And as we will have um loved ones with us and other
loved ones a phone call, a videocall, or a plane right away,
yeah.
I think we'll have the uh I praythat we have the opportunity to
really start thinking about umwhat's enough, what's a good
(35:59):
life, and all of that stuff.
And that harks back to thequestion you just asked me
earlier about, you know, do youthink about your own mortality
and stuff?
I want my last days to be in astate of enough and in a state
of joy and not wanting orchasing.
SPEAKER_00 (36:17):
You know, chasing, well, killing.
SPEAKER_02 (36:19):
Yeah, yeah.
Keeping up with, you know what Imean, and things like that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (36:24):
Yeah.
Excellent.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (36:28):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (36:30):
This episode was produced by Leslie Michelle,
who's our OCT.
Ah, thank you.
I guess so.
SPEAKER_02 (36:39):
Good job.
SPEAKER_00 (36:40):
Yeah, you're a producer.
SPEAKER_02 (36:42):
All right.
Well, well, thank you guys.
Thank you for listening.
We really appreciate you.
And we appreciate our Patreonsubscribers too.
Yes.
In fact, we really appreciateyour support.
So you can join our Patreon umBesties Squad Squad for a five
(37:05):
or ten dollar monthly pledge.
We appreciate it.
It helps us, and we can bringnew content new content to you.
So I'll end by saying this hasbeen another episode of Black
Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_01 (37:21):
Brooklyn
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!