November 18, 2025 • 41 mins
The Besties trace Angella’s pivots from a 30 plus year corporate career in IT to becoming an entrepreneur who works in theater, showing how one bold choice can open a chain of unexpected doors. Craft, culture and courage meet in scenes from The Color Purple, Motown design, and a 40+ wig design for Legally Blonde The Musical.
The heart of the episode explores how many of us, especially Boomers, are wired for “surety”—the prescribed path through degrees, titles, and predictable outcomes but that training often punishes creative risk and keeps us from starting at all.
The episode closes with a call to those who might be feeling a rumble of discontent. Not everyone must rock the boat but if you are restless it might be worth investigate it.
Book a free coaching consultation with Angie here:
https://calendly.com/rhythmwigs/more-joy-complimentary-consultation
Want behind the scenes content, Join us on Patreon at $5 or $10 level:
https://patreon.com/user?u=83534204
Get Angie’s eBook:
We’re Too Old for This! The Inquisitive Older Woman’s Guide to Joy http://joystrategy.co/ebook
IG: https://www.instagram.com/blackboomerbestiesfrombrooklyn
Visit our website www.blackboomerbesties.com
Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
Hey Ann.
SPEAKER_01 (00:04):
Hey Les, how's it going?
SPEAKER_00 (00:06):
It's going.
Good.
But but it's going.
It's going.
You know, it's not like it'sgoing.
It's going.
It's just going.
Yeah.
It's doing that.
Okay.
We all know what time it is.
But anyway.
How are you, Pally?
SPEAKER_01 (00:23):
I'm doing alright.
I'm doing alright.
Nice to see you.
SPEAKER_00 (00:26):
I'm a little tired, but life is life is life is
amazing.
How about that?
Amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (00:36):
It's amazing and it's complicated at the same
time and it's hard.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
All of those those three things.
SPEAKER_01 (00:43):
All at the same time.
They can coexist.
We talked about that a littlebit last time.
But it can coexist.
SPEAKER_00 (00:49):
But welcome to another episode of Black Boomer
Besties from Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
I'm Angela, and that's Leslie, my best friend of
almost 50 years.
Every time that number.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02):
I know.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03):
We are two free-thinking
60-something-year-old blackwomen, and we've decided to make
joy and uh more boldness happenin our lives.
We invite you to join us.
Um, even more importantly, weinvite you to get on your own
journey, continue your ownjourney.
Um, and we hope that our umepisodes help you to further in
(01:27):
that direction.
Um, today I'm gonna be sharingum some of what I'm doing uh,
you know, over the last fewweeks, what I'm working on and
how that came to happen.
It's uh as you all may know, oneof the things that I I do as an
entrepreneur, the first thingthat I did um after leaving
(01:49):
corporate was to go tocosmetology school.
So I'll share a little bit abouthow that decision led to what
I'm doing now, even though I hadno idea it would.
And um just as Leslie and Italked about this this this
topic, because typically the wayit happens, we're talking, and
(02:10):
then it was like, ah, let'slet's talk about it on the
podcast.
Stop talking, stop talking.
So we didn't go into it toomuch, but just some nuggets kind
of came out of it for the forthe both of us, and so we
decided to share that with you.
So, what have you been up to?
Well, in um uh just a just areal quick synopsis, and then um
(02:34):
I'll tell you what I'm up tonow.
So, in uh I left my corporatecareer um late 2016, and by I
think March it was of thefollowing year, I went to
cosmetology school.
Um, and I'd been thinking aboutit for the prior six months or
(02:59):
so.
And I was trying to think abouthow I could do both.
You know, I I my theheadquarters of my company, the
company that I used to work for,um, let's get that clear, it was
not my company, the company Iused to work for is in
California.
And so, you know, I had thosethree hours in the morning,
right?
Um, to maybe go to school.
(03:21):
So I was looking at thatscenario and things like that.
And when I decided to leave, umI had already done the research
and I went to cosmetologyschool.
Why?
Why did I do that?
SPEAKER_00 (03:34):
And how I don't know, because my mind was like,
what, how you want to learn howto put on your makeup?
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
How and why?
Um, well, it turns out that I'vealways been interested in hair
for myself.
It's always been kind of thesource of artistic expression
for me, um, agency.
Uh, I experiment with my hair alot.
(04:05):
This is, you know, um one ofthose things.
And and I find um I just get alot of joy out of it.
And I was I have always beeninterested in hair.
I do people's hair, I do myfamily's hair, always, always
been of interest to me.
And um, but the kind of this I Idid something else.
(04:30):
I I went to engineering schooland then I got a master's in
computer information systems.
And nothing wrong with thosetraditional ways.
I'm not suggesting any of that.
I'm saying that at this point inmy life, I was then 55, maybe.
Um, yeah, I was 55.
It was it was time for me toleave there and try this.
(04:53):
And the reason why I wanted tokind of start with that as I
talk about what I'm doing now isthat that decision um started a
series of um pivots that I hadno clue would happen.
(05:20):
Um and I use this term as I wastalking to Leslie, it just came
to me that our generation iswired for we're we're wired for
surety, right?
You do this because yeah, we youyou do this, you you don't
(05:43):
become an artist, you become anengineer because that's that's
the safe way, that's the sureway of getting to the things
that that that we are expectedto to want, you know, money, a
family, um uh a nice home, cars,all that kind of thing, right?
SPEAKER_00 (06:03):
So there's a prescribed yeah, there's a
really prescribed pathway tosuccess, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:09):
Exactly, right?
Um and I recognize that a partof that way that we are wired,
we sometimes kind of wesometimes want to see around
corners, right?
It it kind of means that it'slike that is the way that no
(06:32):
matter what happens, you'llyou'll get to those those goals
that you have, right?
No matter what happens, you'llget to those goals.
You have a college degree andyou get a good job, you work for
someone and you get to thosegoals.
And I realize in what I'm doingnow is that you don't you it you
(06:57):
don't always know what's aroundthe corner.
And using the strategy of but Iwant to know, and if I don't
know, I'm not gonna start doingthis other thing.
Because why would I startsomething without some security?
It often leads to us notstarting shit.
It you know, it's like we'rewe're we're in that cycle of if
(07:21):
I don't know that it's gonnawork out exactly the way I want
it to, I'm not gonna start it.
SPEAKER_00 (07:27):
I definitely can relate to that.
I need that when I get to pointB, I want to know what's there,
who's there, why is he there,and make sure it's there.
You know what I mean?
Um yeah, I do.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:44):
And and and your your wiring is is more aligned
to um we our society is is morealigned to your wiring than to
my wiring.
As a whole, right?
I'm using very broadbrushstrokes here, but in in
terms of the way that most ofthe structures in Western
society is set up, where youknow, there's a a pyramid, a lot
(08:07):
of people on the bottom, fewerpeople on top, um, excellence
and um, you know, ingenuity,yeah, but all of that is kind of
tied to money, it's tied to umissues of um um being super
punctual, being super driven,being super this way, not that
(08:27):
way, being super kind of that,which people who are wired like
you fit into that structureeasier than people wired like
me, who, you know, um I've I amcomfortable in it because maybe
I'm familiar and maybe it's mywiring too, but I'm primarily
this really innovative andcreative soul.
(08:48):
And so um, so what happened isum I I became a licensed um
natural hair care specialist.
And for those who don't know,that is um 325 hours of
instruction, of um practicals, alot of um um schoolwork um
(09:13):
before you get to the the thethe part of the training where
you're actually working workingwith hair and working with with
clients.
Um and then I in in like mid um2017 I started um a wig brand.
I I I turned that down becauseit was time, um, but it was
(09:34):
called Rhythm Wigs.
Um you'll see there I did have aYouTube channel.
I have quite a few um videos onit, a lot actually.
Um, but you'll see me in in thatmode.
And through that, um uh someonethat I that I know told me about
an opportunity they they neededum uh some help with a um um a
(09:59):
production where a hair personhad an emergency.
Can you come in and do that?
And it was my first, and it wasabout eight, seven or so years
ago.
And that's that was how Istarted working in theater.
Really liked it.
It was a way to use some of myskills.
Um, and I think I gotta say thistoo, because this is kind of how
(10:21):
those the um the going tocosmetology school, even though
it was creative, another reasonwhy I did it is because I I
wanted to have somecertification, right?
Because that's a part of howwe're socialized too.
SPEAKER_00 (10:40):
That's true.
SPEAKER_01 (10:41):
Yeah, you you get a diploma, you get a thing.
SPEAKER_00 (10:44):
Agency has to say that you're over here.
Give me the stamp to say thatpeople are more comfortable,
sure.
Exactly, exactly.
So traditionally, in ourculture, we've been doing hair
exactly for getting a hair.
SPEAKER_01 (10:58):
And I gotta tell you, and my classmates, not the
not the instruction, because foruh a natural hair care
specialist, there's a lot of umuh textbook work around the
body, um the systems of thebody, because it's it comes from
(11:18):
a natural, um, more um uh ummore natural way of living,
right?
When you think about our ournatural hair.
And so that is, and I think it'sbecause of some of the the um
leaders, the the the the peoplewho have left their legacy in
(11:39):
the natural hair care um world,they were a part of designing
the instruction for thistraining.
So they were kind of infused init, and I wish I wish those
names were coming to me rightnow, but you've got to forgive
me because it's it's just it'sjust that that time.
But anyway, I will put theirnames in the description because
(12:01):
I do want to call them out.
And and some of you willrecognize those those people.
Um, so there was a lot oflearning about the body and
different oils and and how theyaffect the body and things like
that.
But when it comes to doing hair,hands down, my classmates, um,
and I'd say me too, knew moreabout doing hair than our
(12:25):
instructors.
SPEAKER_00 (12:26):
We did because, like you said, it's a culture thing.
We grew up with it.
Every all of us can tell storiesabout sitting between our our
elders' knees, yep, getting ourhair done on a Sunday or
whenever.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (12:43):
Um, and it's almost like it makes me think about
midwifery, which used to be inAfrican-American communities,
that used to be a passed-on, youknow.
If you were a midwife, it wasbecause your grand, your mother,
your grandmother.
Yeah, it used to be this passeddown thing, but another story
about how why that changed um uhin very deliberate ways.
(13:03):
Um negative and deliberate ways.
But anyway, so I really wantedto do this, and it what I'm
doing now is I'm working on aproduction of um legally legally
blonde, the musical, and I amthe um hair and wig designer for
the production.
(13:24):
At this point, we're 40something wigs, we'll probably
get it down to 30 to 30something.
And so day before yesterday, Ispent like four hours in Beauty
World.
SPEAKER_00 (13:41):
That's like this is my life.
Beauty World is what?
What is Beauty World?
Is that like an amusement parkfor musicians?
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
For me, yes.
It is this huge uh, it's thishuge uh beauty supply place, but
it's unlike kind of the the onesthat you may be used to in your
community because everyone whocomes to my town and I take
there, and I mean these arepeople who work on Broadway
(14:12):
sometimes, right?
Right, and I take them to mybeauty world, they're shocked at
the at how huge it is and howmany wigs they have right there.
Yes.
Wow, we gotta stop by there.
It's it's it's it's incredible.
So I was there for hours and ummy partner was was visiting me.
SPEAKER_02 (14:31):
How did they deal with it?
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
Was visiting me this weekend, and you know, you pop
in, you figure you just a halfan hour, 45 minutes, whatever,
to pick up a few things.
Four hours later, we're walkingout.
We came in when it was sunny.
We left when it was becauselisten, you you you know it's
(14:54):
it's an amusement part.
You need you need what you need,right?
And you're thinking, you'rethinking about what's gonna be
on stage, you're thinking aboutthe shape of the person's face,
you're thinking about who isgonna be running, running the
show.
I get it.
All that so it it da it's awhole thing, and so I wanted to
kind of show you like I havethis right here.
So, like kind of how all of thisstuff comes together.
(15:15):
So this this is for one of thecharacters, right?
And I'm doing um, I'm just doingsome experimentation, which
which I really like how itturned out.
So this this is one of thecharacters, she's actually a uh
salon owner.
And I she she dreams of Irelandand you know, wanting to be with
(15:38):
a with um uh Irish guy andwhatever, and red hair and so
on.
Um, and so I gave her red hair.
And then what is that?
You you have to think, well, youhave to think about what was
going on at in this period,right?
Which was in the um 2000s, um,mid to late 2000s, and so
(15:58):
blocking kind of color colorhaving um thick highlights were
a part of um this the style forum certain people, as Karen
Hunter would say, fornon-melanated people in in that
time.
So I wanted to kind of punch upher hair, and so I found these
(16:19):
tracks.
You see that?
Can you see that?
Yes, yeah, with this hair, it'scalled peach.
Okay, and I'm just kind ofplaying with where I want it to
be, because this is this is kindof how how it the the hair looks
normally.
Wow, yeah, I'm playing with whatI want, but I decided that
(16:40):
crimping was a big thing thentoo.
So I'm doing these braidsbecause ultimately, and you guys
know because if any of you umhave either had your hair
braided, you go to the Africanhair braiding, they dip your
hair with with um boiling water,they dip the ends of your hair.
(17:00):
It's synthetic, so it causesyour hair to take the shape,
take the curl.
If you curl it and dip it in hotwater, I see.
Or if you braid it and dip it inhot water, it gets these um, it
gets this look, right?
And so it kind of evokescrimping.
I I could see that for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (17:21):
And you did that just with braid, braiding?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:23):
So when I so this was just me experimenting, and
then I like it.
And so now I I sewed in, I sewedin these these tracks in here.
Um, they're they're two, but Idoubled it, and then I braided
it.
So um I'm gonna dip these in inum in uh boiling water, and they
too will crim and it's gonnalook beautiful because it's
(17:47):
legally blonde, and based onwhat she's gonna be wearing,
this color.
So, so here's the thing, becausethis is not about hair.
SPEAKER_00 (17:53):
Okay, you go on.
I got a couple questions.
Sure.
One, how do you know what thehair was like in the 2000s?
How do you know, like, what'sthe backstory?
What kind of uh investigation orresearch do you do before you
get into this?
SPEAKER_01 (18:14):
Well, that's it.
You you you have to researchwith any with any um any
production that you work on, youhave to do your own research,
right?
And so it's research, it's alsohaving your own point of view.
And that that is another thingabout kind of the self-awareness
(18:36):
stuff that that I talk aboutquite often is um because it
allows you to develop a acertain amount of confidence in
what you bring to the table.
And um, for me, working in thisindustry, it has it has been so
important to um to show up fullybecause you know you have all
(19:00):
these creatives working on aproject like this.
You have the director, you havethe um uh the stage management
team, you have the the umcostume team, um, you you have
lighting, you have sound, youhave all of these creatives
working on these projects.
And you each person is reallyresponsible for bringing their
(19:21):
own point of view to theproduction, right?
SPEAKER_00 (19:24):
That's true.
SPEAKER_01 (19:26):
So I'll give you um one example of something that I
did where it really kind offorced me to do what I'm talking
about here, where it wasn'tsuper comfortable for me to do,
but it was when I was working onum on uh the color purple,
(19:49):
right?
And I you know the story, butbut but I I like to tell the
story because it just bringssome of these ideas together in
a in um a very clear andtangible ways for people, right?
Where if you're in uh certainspaces, yeah, it's so important
(20:11):
to know who you are and and theways that you are gifted so that
you could show up fully as thatperson when you're in these
spaces, right?
That you're you're not in thesespaces and then you kind of
diminish yourself.
You're always talking aboutshining your light and not
having your light under thetable, that type of thing,
right?
So you're in these spaces, andum, I'm not a theater kid, I
(20:35):
haven't been in theater fordecades, and so it's it would
have been um quite um I guessnatural for me to kind of shrink
back and just kind of fall intothe background kind of thing.
But what I was working on thisproduction, and you know, this
is this is an iconic um bookturned into play, turned into
(21:01):
movie, and there is a scenewhere um the character Seely is
combing Suge Avery, who is thethis starlet who used to be the
the lover of Seely's husband,abusive husband, and Seely is
really attracted to um to Suge,and she's giving her a bath.
(21:26):
Seely is giving Suge a bath, andshe's tending to her hair,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (21:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:31):
And that moment for me, and Leslie and I, you've you
and I have talked about whenthis happened on um when this
happened on um on but what isthat show?
It's called With Viola Davis.
SPEAKER_00 (21:45):
Yes, with Viola.
SPEAKER_01 (21:46):
How to get away with murder.
How to get away with murder.
When she Cicely Tyson played hermom, and she um she came in just
kind of drained and broken.
Uh really, yeah, yeah.
And Cicely Tyson, she sat downand sit and she took off her
wig, she sat down and wasscratching her scalp and
(22:06):
soothing her.
Like you said, it's a part ofour culture, right?
Yeah, and so this moment ofCelie um tending to Suge's
scalp, it was expected to be hadto have these women wigged.
Um in the very next scene, veryquickly, Suge was going to be um
(22:29):
at a um juke joint dressed upwith her hair pin curls.
And so for me, what I refuse tohave happen is for this to be a
wigged moment when I know thatthis is such a tender moment in
black commun communities.
SPEAKER_00 (22:50):
Our communities in our community of these
communities.
We all have our experience.
We all have it.
SPEAKER_01 (22:55):
And so, so you know, I I was like, okay, but if
there's no wig on her, then Igot to get the wig on her in
whatever, a minute, 30 secondsbefore she goes into the next
scene.
SPEAKER_00 (23:09):
So I but but it wasn't from what you've told me,
it wasn't also just sceneexpediency that made you think
about that.
I mean, obviously you had to dothat in terms of the stuff.
Yeah, I had to pull it off.
So knew that hair in its mostraw state, let's just say, or
(23:33):
natural state, is what we allexperienced, you know, before it
was processed into pin curls orput on rollers.
I remember Sunday night I had tosleep in those big orange
rollers for school the next day.
SPEAKER_01 (23:48):
Didn't we all, where you kind of sit up a little bit?
SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
Oh my gosh, because it was so painful, it's like you
had this all plastic.
But it was only me.
SPEAKER_01 (23:59):
Um well, it turned out that the actor playing Shug
had her hair, um, it was it wasbraided braid down, right?
She had it all going back, andthat would have been um an okay
um hairstyle for it for theperiod.
It was just cornroad back,nothing fancy.
And I said to the director, Ireally want to try this.
(24:21):
I want to try her not being in awig.
And he said, if you can get thewig back on her in a minute and
30 seconds, because she had tochange her costume and she had
to put a wig on in a very shortperiod of time.
And we tried it and it worked.
And I'm super, super, super,super proud of saying that
(24:41):
because I just felt like theblack people in the audience, it
it wouldn't have hit, itwouldn't have hit the same way.
No, we know, right?
And I think that might have goneover other people's head.
Not not a big deal.
It wouldn't have, you know, umuh changed how they experience
the the performance at all.
But I knew that the perspectivethat I was bringing in
(25:05):
particular, this hairperspective that I have, this
black woman perspective that Ihave, um, I felt like it was
really important.
It was a moment to capture.
SPEAKER_00 (25:14):
And you know, we've talked about this and the
richness and the beauty and theimportance of diversity.
Yeah.
If your voice with yourexperience, your you in your
entirety didn't come to thatinstance in that moment, it
(25:35):
would have been, like you said,just okay.
Yeah, but it didn't have thatrich nuance.
Right, right.
That I think was important.
I alright, I'll let you finishyour story, but I also want to
ask you about your experiencedoing the Motown um show.
Oh Lord.
And how you how you brought yoursensibility to that production.
SPEAKER_01 (26:00):
Yeah.
Um well, I'll talk about thatbecause the point that I want to
make is the same point, youknow, that I that I took away
from both of them.
And it's a part of what I wantto kind of express here um
around um just working on youruh knowing yourself and like I
(26:29):
always like to say, and beingamazed by yourself.
How important that is, and howmuch the the the the people that
you interact with and the thingsthat you touch, how much they
are made better when they comefrom that that place.
Um what Leslie's talking aboutin the Motown thing, um, I was
(26:52):
working on this production, itwas um Dancing in the streets,
um, and it was at a uhpredominantly white institution,
uh university.
And um so most of the it was adance performance, and most of
the um the students were white,of course, predominantly like
(27:15):
white institution.
And I was kind of faced withthis how do I represent hair in
this period because it's Motown,so the 50s, um, 60s, 60s, yeah.
Um, how do I have names andDiana Ross and for some the
Jackson 5 and how do I representhair in this performance where
(27:40):
it wasn't like people were doingblack, right?
We we have a whole history.
But you did not want acaricature, didn't didn't want
that at all, didn't want any,you know, um minstrel adjacent
nothing.
SPEAKER_00 (27:55):
You know I'm not putting afro wigs on these
students, right?
Just you know, you know theywill not be wearing afro wigs.
And so I said here you go startin trouble.
SPEAKER_01 (28:12):
And listen, but it's good to have these points of
view, whatever they are, it'sgood to have them because you
know, and this is something Iwrestled with.
Like I spoke to my sister howshe would kind of approach us
because um I spoke to my niecewho's who's who's into hair just
like me, and my sister becauseshe she's just really um uh just
(28:34):
really knowledgeable about umAfrican-American, Afro-Caribbean
um diasporic history and kind ofhow to approach this.
And at the end of the day, whatI ended up doing is we're gonna
kind of um tone down the thehair story on on stage.
(28:57):
There are some styles that wedid that were appropriate for
the period, but what I did inaddition to that is um create an
exhibit that it was agreed wouldgo in the lobby of the um of the
auditorium that told the story.
It was like um the behind behindthe scenes story of Motown where
(29:22):
hair was like the central themeto it.
SPEAKER_00 (29:25):
And so you took the actual hair, the look and the
vision, visuals of the hair, andput it in the lobby to set the
stage before the production.
And then they went in and theywere not wearing afro wigs,
nothing like that.
I had a couple pick in it.
SPEAKER_01 (29:46):
It was a it was a it was a whole design of the
exhibit.
So so the design became theexhibit, and I did have um two
mannequins that represented onewas you know, kind of in the
60s, and um the The leatherjacket with the fringes and
that, and he had an afro.
And I like this is anopportunity.
You want to touch an afro, touchthis one, kind of thing.
(30:08):
Then I had like a chance, youknow, kind of buffon style um
evoking uh the Supremes.
And I think Leslie asked me tomention that because at the end
of the day, what what theseoutcomes that I believe and I've
been told made such a differencecame from having a strong point
(30:32):
of view and having theconfidence to speak it and to
make it happen.
SPEAKER_02 (30:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:40):
Right.
And so and here's another thingthat I recognize when these kind
of doubts come in my head, notnecessarily imposter syndrome
per se, but sometimes you feelit's easier to stay quiet in a
large room where there might be,you know, dissenting um opinions
(31:02):
that don't match yours.
But when you leave that room,boy, do you have that wrestle
and battle with yourself.
I should have said something.
It beeps at you.
Right.
It eats at you for a reason.
The thing that I try to rememberis that I was chosen for a
reason.
(31:22):
They chose me, they wanted me tobe there.
And as a result, or you chosethem.
Whatever it is, you were therefor a reason.
As a result, exactly, exactly.
Now's my time.
Now is your time.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:40):
Let's go.
Yeah.
Let's go.
And that is how our conversationkind of meandered around um
hair.
And when we did the live on umStephanie Perry's channel, uh
towards the end, I mentionedthat I um I was in the the the
(32:00):
the hair business, and a fewpeople who followed up with me
after mentioned that theyreached out to me because I said
that.
And so I thought, well, let metalk a little bit and and
explain how I got there, whatI'm doing now.
Um, it is an avenue for peoplewho are, you know, hair people,
whether you are a salon owner oryou work in a salon or you're
(32:25):
kitchen, um whether you're akitchen beautician.
And the theater is a place thatyou're you can bring your
skills.
And um, you know, reach out tome uh if there's anything that I
can help you to kind of evenjust think it through, think
about the possibility of it.
Um, because I think there'salways uh a need for good um
(32:48):
people with with good hair hairskills, especially for black and
brown people who don't have theopportunity who to work with
people who understand theirhair.
Um and and I'm still shocked athow much I still hear that.
You think that in this you know,when when a when a when a uh a
(33:09):
turn happens, that the turn iscomplete, that you know it's
kind of filtered down toeveryone.
This is taken care of over.
And it's not exactly, I don'tneed to do this anymore.
No, yes, you do, and it's so ifyou're interested in working in
theater, so you were free.
No, it ain't over.
(33:29):
So so you know, when when youknow you hear Leslie and I
talking about joy, and when Italk about joyful money making,
this is a part of it for me.
I got to spend four hours inBeauty World as a part of my
job, like I got to as a part ofmy work.
This is how I make money, thisis how I make money, and I I I
(33:51):
chose this for myself.
And there's so much joy wrappedup in it.
I get to, I get to play withwith peach peach hair and and
and you know create beautiful umcharacters on stage.
It's a it's it's it's such asource of of fulfillment for me.
Um, so we're talking about itbecause a part of our joy my joy
(34:15):
journey.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
And I love that you are actually describing a bold
move.
It it took courage to do it, youknow.
It was it was a courageous act,I know.
It was a it was a courageousact, but so many, so often we
shrink, you know, from thesethings.
It's like, that's too hard.
(34:37):
That's too hard.
SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
Or I can't, or it's so different.
Yeah, yeah.
It's so and I think that's whatI what I'd like to kind of maybe
close if we're probably at time,close with is this idea that um,
you know, I didn't know when Iwas starting beauty school that
this is this is what I would bedoing, right?
I I had some kind of framing,but it was really mostly
(35:01):
because, hey, this is a chancethat I get to do the something
that I've always wanted to do.
SPEAKER_00 (35:06):
Right, right.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (35:08):
And and I was clear about who I wanted to serve
because the my my wig brand wasfor um um black woman 40 and
discerning black women 40 andover.
Um, it was a curly hairlinebecause that's that's what I
wanted to do.
That's what you can do as anentrepreneur is to create things
that um really um feed yourpassion.
(35:30):
What is it?
Your passion.
What is the um Aki Guy?
Your passion.
It's three parts.
It's what's what's your passion,what people need, and what is
gonna bring you into thatprofitable and those three
things coming together, thatsweet spot is is what I got out
(35:50):
of my um my rhythm wigs.
So so anyway, and so now I'mdoing theater, I do it um as
often as as I like.
Um, I do maybe two or threeproductions a year, and it's a
part of what I do.
You all know that I also coachand so on, but the again, just
(36:11):
yeah, you don't always have toknow every part of it.
Um I'm looking right now that ata at a sign that someone gave me
about um um about being being alight.
I can't I can't read the wholething, about being a the the
light, it's scripture.
Um and so sometimes we expectthat that the light is gonna
(36:36):
shine way into the future so wecan see everything that's gonna
happen.
SPEAKER_00 (36:41):
You know, like okay, this is gonna work.
SPEAKER_01 (36:43):
That's not gonna work.
When it really talks aboutlighting, lighting your path,
lighting your feet, right?
And and and just being able tosometimes see just where your
feet are right now.
Just where you are is is that'sboring to me.
Sometimes when we're way overthere at the ledge, it's like,
well, what am I gonna do to jumpoff?
(37:03):
Well, you're not even there yet.
You're not even there yet.
You can think about it, butyou're not, you're right here.
What are you what you're righthere?
What ledge?
What are you talking about?
You're right here, and thosefears about what you're gonna do
when you're at the ledge, you'reyou're you're making them
(37:25):
manifest in a big way right nowwhen they're way over there.
And guess what?
By the time you get there, thethings that you were worried
about, they're not there.
There may be some things, butthe things that you have um
Caleb in the Bible.
SPEAKER_00 (37:40):
Is that I don't know, tell me.
He went up ahead, he and I don'trecall who else.
SPEAKER_01 (37:45):
Oh, this was this was this was before in the old
testament.
SPEAKER_00 (37:48):
Yeah, yeah, before Moses.
And they were supposed to goahead and forge away or
whatever.
They went and they're like, waita minute, there are giants out
there.
We are not going that way.
Our trip stops here.
(38:08):
Uh, you know, it's but some ofus do get paralyzed by that type
of thing.
I understand.
Especially, Ange, here's thething.
Especially if you're in acircumstance or a lifestyle
that's somewhat comfortable.
Yes, you're not thrown out ofit, right?
It has been working for you sofar.
SPEAKER_01 (38:30):
Right.
You know what I mean?
But what is that working foryou?
SPEAKER_00 (38:32):
Like, what does that mean?
SPEAKER_01 (38:34):
Is it basic?
Is it basic working for you?
Is it mediocrity?
But we want some of us Yes, someof us.
SPEAKER_00 (38:42):
Tell me.
Just talk about somebody I'mfamiliar with.
Uh are comfortable with basicneeds met.
You know, it's like some of usdon't need to reach higher.
You know what I mean?
We don't want to rock the boatand things like that.
I really do understand thatmindset.
SPEAKER_01 (39:01):
Yeah, so so my thing isn't rock the boat necessarily,
right?
My thing is not rocking theboat.
Quit hope.
And then I'll just I'm justsaying rocking the boat.
That's me.
SPEAKER_00 (39:17):
I do have fear.
I have a lot of fear about it,but it doesn't stop me.
SPEAKER_01 (39:22):
But I have a lot of fear.
What are you talking about?
I had a lot of fear, but itdidn't stop me.
And the thing is, I'm justsaying you I'm not expecting
y'all to be like me.
That's not what this is about.
It's not what this is about.
I'm saying if you havediscontent, if you have
(39:44):
discontent, then act on that.
Then then inquire about wherethat's coming from.
If you're happy and you know it,clap your hands.
Right?
But if you have discontent,especially as we get older, and
it's like, ooh, I really wishthat I wish yes.
SPEAKER_00 (40:03):
You know what I mean?
If you're feeling like you'reready for something.
That's what I'm talking about.
I think I'm gonna if I don'ttry, try.
Right.
If I don't try, I think I'mgonna be miserable.
SPEAKER_01 (40:14):
Exactly.
That's what I mean.
If you're if you're regret, ifyou're content, if you feel
fulfilled where you are,absolutely, I promise you,
there's zero judgment aroundthat.
I'm saying that if you feel thata rumbling, if you feel like you
know, like really like this isif it keeps coming back, even
(40:34):
when you try to, even when youtry to turn it down, if it
keeps, you know, coming back.
Inquire about you know what thatcould be and how that could
create a real shift for you.
Yeah.
So I'll I'll post some pictureswhen this is done.
Okay.
I'm kind of getting a littleinspiration from a style I saw
(40:56):
that Tyra Banks wear back in the2000s.
Um, I think that's the way thatI'm gonna style it.
It's gonna kind of be up, kindof like an up-down, um, uh half
up, half, half down, but messy.
So I'll show you.
I guess we'll see.
SPEAKER_00 (41:12):
You will see.
Well, thanks for sharing, Ange.
You're welcome.
So this has been another episodeof Black Boomer Besties from
Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_01 (41:24):
Brooklyn
Hey Ann.
SPEAKER_01 (00:04):
Hey Les, how's it going?
SPEAKER_00 (00:06):
It's going.
Good.
But but it's going.
It's going.
You know, it's not like it'sgoing.
It's going.
It's just going.
Yeah.
It's doing that.
Okay.
We all know what time it is.
But anyway.
How are you, Pally?
SPEAKER_01 (00:23):
I'm doing alright.
I'm doing alright.
Nice to see you.
SPEAKER_00 (00:26):
I'm a little tired, but life is life is life is
amazing.
How about that?
Amazing.
SPEAKER_01 (00:36):
It's amazing and it's complicated at the same
time and it's hard.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
All of those those three things.
SPEAKER_01 (00:43):
All at the same time.
They can coexist.
We talked about that a littlebit last time.
But it can coexist.
SPEAKER_00 (00:49):
But welcome to another episode of Black Boomer
Besties from Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_01 (00:54):
I'm Angela, and that's Leslie, my best friend of
almost 50 years.
Every time that number.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02):
I know.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03):
We are two free-thinking
60-something-year-old blackwomen, and we've decided to make
joy and uh more boldness happenin our lives.
We invite you to join us.
Um, even more importantly, weinvite you to get on your own
journey, continue your ownjourney.
Um, and we hope that our umepisodes help you to further in
(01:27):
that direction.
Um, today I'm gonna be sharingum some of what I'm doing uh,
you know, over the last fewweeks, what I'm working on and
how that came to happen.
It's uh as you all may know, oneof the things that I I do as an
entrepreneur, the first thingthat I did um after leaving
(01:49):
corporate was to go tocosmetology school.
So I'll share a little bit abouthow that decision led to what
I'm doing now, even though I hadno idea it would.
And um just as Leslie and Italked about this this this
topic, because typically the wayit happens, we're talking, and
(02:10):
then it was like, ah, let'slet's talk about it on the
podcast.
Stop talking, stop talking.
So we didn't go into it toomuch, but just some nuggets kind
of came out of it for the forthe both of us, and so we
decided to share that with you.
So, what have you been up to?
Well, in um uh just a just areal quick synopsis, and then um
(02:34):
I'll tell you what I'm up tonow.
So, in uh I left my corporatecareer um late 2016, and by I
think March it was of thefollowing year, I went to
cosmetology school.
Um, and I'd been thinking aboutit for the prior six months or
(02:59):
so.
And I was trying to think abouthow I could do both.
You know, I I my theheadquarters of my company, the
company that I used to work for,um, let's get that clear, it was
not my company, the company Iused to work for is in
California.
And so, you know, I had thosethree hours in the morning,
right?
Um, to maybe go to school.
(03:21):
So I was looking at thatscenario and things like that.
And when I decided to leave, umI had already done the research
and I went to cosmetologyschool.
Why?
Why did I do that?
SPEAKER_00 (03:34):
And how I don't know, because my mind was like,
what, how you want to learn howto put on your makeup?
SPEAKER_01 (03:44):
How and why?
Um, well, it turns out that I'vealways been interested in hair
for myself.
It's always been kind of thesource of artistic expression
for me, um, agency.
Uh, I experiment with my hair alot.
(04:05):
This is, you know, um one ofthose things.
And and I find um I just get alot of joy out of it.
And I was I have always beeninterested in hair.
I do people's hair, I do myfamily's hair, always, always
been of interest to me.
And um, but the kind of this I Idid something else.
(04:30):
I I went to engineering schooland then I got a master's in
computer information systems.
And nothing wrong with thosetraditional ways.
I'm not suggesting any of that.
I'm saying that at this point inmy life, I was then 55, maybe.
Um, yeah, I was 55.
It was it was time for me toleave there and try this.
(04:53):
And the reason why I wanted tokind of start with that as I
talk about what I'm doing now isthat that decision um started a
series of um pivots that I hadno clue would happen.
(05:20):
Um and I use this term as I wastalking to Leslie, it just came
to me that our generation iswired for we're we're wired for
surety, right?
You do this because yeah, we youyou do this, you you don't
(05:43):
become an artist, you become anengineer because that's that's
the safe way, that's the sureway of getting to the things
that that that we are expectedto to want, you know, money, a
family, um uh a nice home, cars,all that kind of thing, right?
SPEAKER_00 (06:03):
So there's a prescribed yeah, there's a
really prescribed pathway tosuccess, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:09):
Exactly, right?
Um and I recognize that a partof that way that we are wired,
we sometimes kind of wesometimes want to see around
corners, right?
It it kind of means that it'slike that is the way that no
(06:32):
matter what happens, you'llyou'll get to those those goals
that you have, right?
No matter what happens, you'llget to those goals.
You have a college degree andyou get a good job, you work for
someone and you get to thosegoals.
And I realize in what I'm doingnow is that you don't you it you
(06:57):
don't always know what's aroundthe corner.
And using the strategy of but Iwant to know, and if I don't
know, I'm not gonna start doingthis other thing.
Because why would I startsomething without some security?
It often leads to us notstarting shit.
It you know, it's like we'rewe're we're in that cycle of if
(07:21):
I don't know that it's gonnawork out exactly the way I want
it to, I'm not gonna start it.
SPEAKER_00 (07:27):
I definitely can relate to that.
I need that when I get to pointB, I want to know what's there,
who's there, why is he there,and make sure it's there.
You know what I mean?
Um yeah, I do.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (07:44):
And and and your your wiring is is more aligned
to um we our society is is morealigned to your wiring than to
my wiring.
As a whole, right?
I'm using very broadbrushstrokes here, but in in
terms of the way that most ofthe structures in Western
society is set up, where youknow, there's a a pyramid, a lot
(08:07):
of people on the bottom, fewerpeople on top, um, excellence
and um, you know, ingenuity,yeah, but all of that is kind of
tied to money, it's tied to umissues of um um being super
punctual, being super driven,being super this way, not that
(08:27):
way, being super kind of that,which people who are wired like
you fit into that structureeasier than people wired like
me, who, you know, um I've I amcomfortable in it because maybe
I'm familiar and maybe it's mywiring too, but I'm primarily
this really innovative andcreative soul.
(08:48):
And so um, so what happened isum I I became a licensed um
natural hair care specialist.
And for those who don't know,that is um 325 hours of
instruction, of um practicals, alot of um um schoolwork um
(09:13):
before you get to the the thethe part of the training where
you're actually working workingwith hair and working with with
clients.
Um and then I in in like mid um2017 I started um a wig brand.
I I I turned that down becauseit was time, um, but it was
(09:34):
called Rhythm Wigs.
Um you'll see there I did have aYouTube channel.
I have quite a few um videos onit, a lot actually.
Um, but you'll see me in in thatmode.
And through that, um uh someonethat I that I know told me about
an opportunity they they neededum uh some help with a um um a
(09:59):
production where a hair personhad an emergency.
Can you come in and do that?
And it was my first, and it wasabout eight, seven or so years
ago.
And that's that was how Istarted working in theater.
Really liked it.
It was a way to use some of myskills.
Um, and I think I gotta say thistoo, because this is kind of how
(10:21):
those the um the going tocosmetology school, even though
it was creative, another reasonwhy I did it is because I I
wanted to have somecertification, right?
Because that's a part of howwe're socialized too.
SPEAKER_00 (10:40):
That's true.
SPEAKER_01 (10:41):
Yeah, you you get a diploma, you get a thing.
SPEAKER_00 (10:44):
Agency has to say that you're over here.
Give me the stamp to say thatpeople are more comfortable,
sure.
Exactly, exactly.
So traditionally, in ourculture, we've been doing hair
exactly for getting a hair.
SPEAKER_01 (10:58):
And I gotta tell you, and my classmates, not the
not the instruction, because foruh a natural hair care
specialist, there's a lot of umuh textbook work around the
body, um the systems of thebody, because it's it comes from
(11:18):
a natural, um, more um uh ummore natural way of living,
right?
When you think about our ournatural hair.
And so that is, and I think it'sbecause of some of the the um
leaders, the the the the peoplewho have left their legacy in
(11:39):
the natural hair care um world,they were a part of designing
the instruction for thistraining.
So they were kind of infused init, and I wish I wish those
names were coming to me rightnow, but you've got to forgive
me because it's it's just it'sjust that that time.
But anyway, I will put theirnames in the description because
(12:01):
I do want to call them out.
And and some of you willrecognize those those people.
Um, so there was a lot oflearning about the body and
different oils and and how theyaffect the body and things like
that.
But when it comes to doing hair,hands down, my classmates, um,
and I'd say me too, knew moreabout doing hair than our
(12:25):
instructors.
SPEAKER_00 (12:26):
We did because, like you said, it's a culture thing.
We grew up with it.
Every all of us can tell storiesabout sitting between our our
elders' knees, yep, getting ourhair done on a Sunday or
whenever.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (12:43):
Um, and it's almost like it makes me think about
midwifery, which used to be inAfrican-American communities,
that used to be a passed-on, youknow.
If you were a midwife, it wasbecause your grand, your mother,
your grandmother.
Yeah, it used to be this passeddown thing, but another story
about how why that changed um uhin very deliberate ways.
(13:03):
Um negative and deliberate ways.
But anyway, so I really wantedto do this, and it what I'm
doing now is I'm working on aproduction of um legally legally
blonde, the musical, and I amthe um hair and wig designer for
the production.
(13:24):
At this point, we're 40something wigs, we'll probably
get it down to 30 to 30something.
And so day before yesterday, Ispent like four hours in Beauty
World.
SPEAKER_00 (13:41):
That's like this is my life.
Beauty World is what?
What is Beauty World?
Is that like an amusement parkfor musicians?
SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
For me, yes.
It is this huge uh, it's thishuge uh beauty supply place, but
it's unlike kind of the the onesthat you may be used to in your
community because everyone whocomes to my town and I take
there, and I mean these arepeople who work on Broadway
(14:12):
sometimes, right?
Right, and I take them to mybeauty world, they're shocked at
the at how huge it is and howmany wigs they have right there.
Yes.
Wow, we gotta stop by there.
It's it's it's it's incredible.
So I was there for hours and ummy partner was was visiting me.
SPEAKER_02 (14:31):
How did they deal with it?
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
Was visiting me this weekend, and you know, you pop
in, you figure you just a halfan hour, 45 minutes, whatever,
to pick up a few things.
Four hours later, we're walkingout.
We came in when it was sunny.
We left when it was becauselisten, you you you know it's
(14:54):
it's an amusement part.
You need you need what you need,right?
And you're thinking, you'rethinking about what's gonna be
on stage, you're thinking aboutthe shape of the person's face,
you're thinking about who isgonna be running, running the
show.
I get it.
All that so it it da it's awhole thing, and so I wanted to
kind of show you like I havethis right here.
So, like kind of how all of thisstuff comes together.
(15:15):
So this this is for one of thecharacters, right?
And I'm doing um, I'm just doingsome experimentation, which
which I really like how itturned out.
So this this is one of thecharacters, she's actually a uh
salon owner.
And I she she dreams of Irelandand you know, wanting to be with
(15:38):
a with um uh Irish guy andwhatever, and red hair and so
on.
Um, and so I gave her red hair.
And then what is that?
You you have to think, well, youhave to think about what was
going on at in this period,right?
Which was in the um 2000s, um,mid to late 2000s, and so
(15:58):
blocking kind of color colorhaving um thick highlights were
a part of um this the style forum certain people, as Karen
Hunter would say, fornon-melanated people in in that
time.
So I wanted to kind of punch upher hair, and so I found these
(16:19):
tracks.
You see that?
Can you see that?
Yes, yeah, with this hair, it'scalled peach.
Okay, and I'm just kind ofplaying with where I want it to
be, because this is this is kindof how how it the the hair looks
normally.
Wow, yeah, I'm playing with whatI want, but I decided that
(16:40):
crimping was a big thing thentoo.
So I'm doing these braidsbecause ultimately, and you guys
know because if any of you umhave either had your hair
braided, you go to the Africanhair braiding, they dip your
hair with with um boiling water,they dip the ends of your hair.
(17:00):
It's synthetic, so it causesyour hair to take the shape,
take the curl.
If you curl it and dip it in hotwater, I see.
Or if you braid it and dip it inhot water, it gets these um, it
gets this look, right?
And so it kind of evokescrimping.
I I could see that for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (17:21):
And you did that just with braid, braiding?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:23):
So when I so this was just me experimenting, and
then I like it.
And so now I I sewed in, I sewedin these these tracks in here.
Um, they're they're two, but Idoubled it, and then I braided
it.
So um I'm gonna dip these in inum in uh boiling water, and they
too will crim and it's gonnalook beautiful because it's
(17:47):
legally blonde, and based onwhat she's gonna be wearing,
this color.
So, so here's the thing, becausethis is not about hair.
SPEAKER_00 (17:53):
Okay, you go on.
I got a couple questions.
Sure.
One, how do you know what thehair was like in the 2000s?
How do you know, like, what'sthe backstory?
What kind of uh investigation orresearch do you do before you
get into this?
SPEAKER_01 (18:14):
Well, that's it.
You you you have to researchwith any with any um any
production that you work on, youhave to do your own research,
right?
And so it's research, it's alsohaving your own point of view.
And that that is another thingabout kind of the self-awareness
(18:36):
stuff that that I talk aboutquite often is um because it
allows you to develop a acertain amount of confidence in
what you bring to the table.
And um, for me, working in thisindustry, it has it has been so
important to um to show up fullybecause you know you have all
(19:00):
these creatives working on aproject like this.
You have the director, you havethe um uh the stage management
team, you have the the umcostume team, um, you you have
lighting, you have sound, youhave all of these creatives
working on these projects.
And you each person is reallyresponsible for bringing their
(19:21):
own point of view to theproduction, right?
SPEAKER_00 (19:24):
That's true.
SPEAKER_01 (19:26):
So I'll give you um one example of something that I
did where it really kind offorced me to do what I'm talking
about here, where it wasn'tsuper comfortable for me to do,
but it was when I was working onum on uh the color purple,
(19:49):
right?
And I you know the story, butbut but I I like to tell the
story because it just bringssome of these ideas together in
a in um a very clear andtangible ways for people, right?
Where if you're in uh certainspaces, yeah, it's so important
(20:11):
to know who you are and and theways that you are gifted so that
you could show up fully as thatperson when you're in these
spaces, right?
That you're you're not in thesespaces and then you kind of
diminish yourself.
You're always talking aboutshining your light and not
having your light under thetable, that type of thing,
right?
So you're in these spaces, andum, I'm not a theater kid, I
(20:35):
haven't been in theater fordecades, and so it's it would
have been um quite um I guessnatural for me to kind of shrink
back and just kind of fall intothe background kind of thing.
But what I was working on thisproduction, and you know, this
is this is an iconic um bookturned into play, turned into
(21:01):
movie, and there is a scenewhere um the character Seely is
combing Suge Avery, who is thethis starlet who used to be the
the lover of Seely's husband,abusive husband, and Seely is
really attracted to um to Suge,and she's giving her a bath.
(21:26):
Seely is giving Suge a bath, andshe's tending to her hair,
right?
SPEAKER_02 (21:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:31):
And that moment for me, and Leslie and I, you've you
and I have talked about whenthis happened on um when this
happened on um on but what isthat show?
It's called With Viola Davis.
SPEAKER_00 (21:45):
Yes, with Viola.
SPEAKER_01 (21:46):
How to get away with murder.
How to get away with murder.
When she Cicely Tyson played hermom, and she um she came in just
kind of drained and broken.
Uh really, yeah, yeah.
And Cicely Tyson, she sat downand sit and she took off her
wig, she sat down and wasscratching her scalp and
(22:06):
soothing her.
Like you said, it's a part ofour culture, right?
Yeah, and so this moment ofCelie um tending to Suge's
scalp, it was expected to be hadto have these women wigged.
Um in the very next scene, veryquickly, Suge was going to be um
(22:29):
at a um juke joint dressed upwith her hair pin curls.
And so for me, what I refuse tohave happen is for this to be a
wigged moment when I know thatthis is such a tender moment in
black commun communities.
SPEAKER_00 (22:50):
Our communities in our community of these
communities.
We all have our experience.
We all have it.
SPEAKER_01 (22:55):
And so, so you know, I I was like, okay, but if
there's no wig on her, then Igot to get the wig on her in
whatever, a minute, 30 secondsbefore she goes into the next
scene.
SPEAKER_00 (23:09):
So I but but it wasn't from what you've told me,
it wasn't also just sceneexpediency that made you think
about that.
I mean, obviously you had to dothat in terms of the stuff.
Yeah, I had to pull it off.
So knew that hair in its mostraw state, let's just say, or
(23:33):
natural state, is what we allexperienced, you know, before it
was processed into pin curls orput on rollers.
I remember Sunday night I had tosleep in those big orange
rollers for school the next day.
SPEAKER_01 (23:48):
Didn't we all, where you kind of sit up a little bit?
SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
Oh my gosh, because it was so painful, it's like you
had this all plastic.
But it was only me.
SPEAKER_01 (23:59):
Um well, it turned out that the actor playing Shug
had her hair, um, it was it wasbraided braid down, right?
She had it all going back, andthat would have been um an okay
um hairstyle for it for theperiod.
It was just cornroad back,nothing fancy.
And I said to the director, Ireally want to try this.
(24:21):
I want to try her not being in awig.
And he said, if you can get thewig back on her in a minute and
30 seconds, because she had tochange her costume and she had
to put a wig on in a very shortperiod of time.
And we tried it and it worked.
And I'm super, super, super,super proud of saying that
(24:41):
because I just felt like theblack people in the audience, it
it wouldn't have hit, itwouldn't have hit the same way.
No, we know, right?
And I think that might have goneover other people's head.
Not not a big deal.
It wouldn't have, you know, umuh changed how they experience
the the performance at all.
But I knew that the perspectivethat I was bringing in
(25:05):
particular, this hairperspective that I have, this
black woman perspective that Ihave, um, I felt like it was
really important.
It was a moment to capture.
SPEAKER_00 (25:14):
And you know, we've talked about this and the
richness and the beauty and theimportance of diversity.
Yeah.
If your voice with yourexperience, your you in your
entirety didn't come to thatinstance in that moment, it
(25:35):
would have been, like you said,just okay.
Yeah, but it didn't have thatrich nuance.
Right, right.
That I think was important.
I alright, I'll let you finishyour story, but I also want to
ask you about your experiencedoing the Motown um show.
Oh Lord.
And how you how you brought yoursensibility to that production.
SPEAKER_01 (26:00):
Yeah.
Um well, I'll talk about thatbecause the point that I want to
make is the same point, youknow, that I that I took away
from both of them.
And it's a part of what I wantto kind of express here um
around um just working on youruh knowing yourself and like I
(26:29):
always like to say, and beingamazed by yourself.
How important that is, and howmuch the the the the people that
you interact with and the thingsthat you touch, how much they
are made better when they comefrom that that place.
Um what Leslie's talking aboutin the Motown thing, um, I was
(26:52):
working on this production, itwas um Dancing in the streets,
um, and it was at a uhpredominantly white institution,
uh university.
And um so most of the it was adance performance, and most of
the um the students were white,of course, predominantly like
(27:15):
white institution.
And I was kind of faced withthis how do I represent hair in
this period because it's Motown,so the 50s, um, 60s, 60s, yeah.
Um, how do I have names andDiana Ross and for some the
Jackson 5 and how do I representhair in this performance where
(27:40):
it wasn't like people were doingblack, right?
We we have a whole history.
But you did not want acaricature, didn't didn't want
that at all, didn't want any,you know, um minstrel adjacent
nothing.
SPEAKER_00 (27:55):
You know I'm not putting afro wigs on these
students, right?
Just you know, you know theywill not be wearing afro wigs.
And so I said here you go startin trouble.
SPEAKER_01 (28:12):
And listen, but it's good to have these points of
view, whatever they are, it'sgood to have them because you
know, and this is something Iwrestled with.
Like I spoke to my sister howshe would kind of approach us
because um I spoke to my niecewho's who's who's into hair just
like me, and my sister becauseshe she's just really um uh just
(28:34):
really knowledgeable about umAfrican-American, Afro-Caribbean
um diasporic history and kind ofhow to approach this.
And at the end of the day, whatI ended up doing is we're gonna
kind of um tone down the thehair story on on stage.
(28:57):
There are some styles that wedid that were appropriate for
the period, but what I did inaddition to that is um create an
exhibit that it was agreed wouldgo in the lobby of the um of the
auditorium that told the story.
It was like um the behind behindthe scenes story of Motown where
(29:22):
hair was like the central themeto it.
SPEAKER_00 (29:25):
And so you took the actual hair, the look and the
vision, visuals of the hair, andput it in the lobby to set the
stage before the production.
And then they went in and theywere not wearing afro wigs,
nothing like that.
I had a couple pick in it.
SPEAKER_01 (29:46):
It was a it was a it was a whole design of the
exhibit.
So so the design became theexhibit, and I did have um two
mannequins that represented onewas you know, kind of in the
60s, and um the The leatherjacket with the fringes and
that, and he had an afro.
And I like this is anopportunity.
You want to touch an afro, touchthis one, kind of thing.
(30:08):
Then I had like a chance, youknow, kind of buffon style um
evoking uh the Supremes.
And I think Leslie asked me tomention that because at the end
of the day, what what theseoutcomes that I believe and I've
been told made such a differencecame from having a strong point
(30:32):
of view and having theconfidence to speak it and to
make it happen.
SPEAKER_02 (30:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:40):
Right.
And so and here's another thingthat I recognize when these kind
of doubts come in my head, notnecessarily imposter syndrome
per se, but sometimes you feelit's easier to stay quiet in a
large room where there might be,you know, dissenting um opinions
(31:02):
that don't match yours.
But when you leave that room,boy, do you have that wrestle
and battle with yourself.
I should have said something.
It beeps at you.
Right.
It eats at you for a reason.
The thing that I try to rememberis that I was chosen for a
reason.
(31:22):
They chose me, they wanted me tobe there.
And as a result, or you chosethem.
Whatever it is, you were therefor a reason.
As a result, exactly, exactly.
Now's my time.
Now is your time.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (31:40):
Let's go.
Yeah.
Let's go.
And that is how our conversationkind of meandered around um
hair.
And when we did the live on umStephanie Perry's channel, uh
towards the end, I mentionedthat I um I was in the the the
(32:00):
the hair business, and a fewpeople who followed up with me
after mentioned that theyreached out to me because I said
that.
And so I thought, well, let metalk a little bit and and
explain how I got there, whatI'm doing now.
Um, it is an avenue for peoplewho are, you know, hair people,
whether you are a salon owner oryou work in a salon or you're
(32:25):
kitchen, um whether you're akitchen beautician.
And the theater is a place thatyou're you can bring your
skills.
And um, you know, reach out tome uh if there's anything that I
can help you to kind of evenjust think it through, think
about the possibility of it.
Um, because I think there'salways uh a need for good um
(32:48):
people with with good hair hairskills, especially for black and
brown people who don't have theopportunity who to work with
people who understand theirhair.
Um and and I'm still shocked athow much I still hear that.
You think that in this you know,when when a when a when a uh a
(33:09):
turn happens, that the turn iscomplete, that you know it's
kind of filtered down toeveryone.
This is taken care of over.
And it's not exactly, I don'tneed to do this anymore.
No, yes, you do, and it's so ifyou're interested in working in
theater, so you were free.
No, it ain't over.
(33:29):
So so you know, when when youknow you hear Leslie and I
talking about joy, and when Italk about joyful money making,
this is a part of it for me.
I got to spend four hours inBeauty World as a part of my
job, like I got to as a part ofmy work.
This is how I make money, thisis how I make money, and I I I
(33:51):
chose this for myself.
And there's so much joy wrappedup in it.
I get to, I get to play withwith peach peach hair and and
and you know create beautiful umcharacters on stage.
It's a it's it's it's such asource of of fulfillment for me.
Um, so we're talking about itbecause a part of our joy my joy
(34:15):
journey.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (34:16):
And I love that you are actually describing a bold
move.
It it took courage to do it, youknow.
It was it was a courageous act,I know.
It was a it was a courageousact, but so many, so often we
shrink, you know, from thesethings.
It's like, that's too hard.
(34:37):
That's too hard.
SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
Or I can't, or it's so different.
Yeah, yeah.
It's so and I think that's whatI what I'd like to kind of maybe
close if we're probably at time,close with is this idea that um,
you know, I didn't know when Iwas starting beauty school that
this is this is what I would bedoing, right?
I I had some kind of framing,but it was really mostly
(35:01):
because, hey, this is a chancethat I get to do the something
that I've always wanted to do.
SPEAKER_00 (35:06):
Right, right.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (35:08):
And and I was clear about who I wanted to serve
because the my my wig brand wasfor um um black woman 40 and
discerning black women 40 andover.
Um, it was a curly hairlinebecause that's that's what I
wanted to do.
That's what you can do as anentrepreneur is to create things
that um really um feed yourpassion.
(35:30):
What is it?
Your passion.
What is the um Aki Guy?
Your passion.
It's three parts.
It's what's what's your passion,what people need, and what is
gonna bring you into thatprofitable and those three
things coming together, thatsweet spot is is what I got out
(35:50):
of my um my rhythm wigs.
So so anyway, and so now I'mdoing theater, I do it um as
often as as I like.
Um, I do maybe two or threeproductions a year, and it's a
part of what I do.
You all know that I also coachand so on, but the again, just
(36:11):
yeah, you don't always have toknow every part of it.
Um I'm looking right now that ata at a sign that someone gave me
about um um about being being alight.
I can't I can't read the wholething, about being a the the
light, it's scripture.
Um and so sometimes we expectthat that the light is gonna
(36:36):
shine way into the future so wecan see everything that's gonna
happen.
SPEAKER_00 (36:41):
You know, like okay, this is gonna work.
SPEAKER_01 (36:43):
That's not gonna work.
When it really talks aboutlighting, lighting your path,
lighting your feet, right?
And and and just being able tosometimes see just where your
feet are right now.
Just where you are is is that'sboring to me.
Sometimes when we're way overthere at the ledge, it's like,
well, what am I gonna do to jumpoff?
(37:03):
Well, you're not even there yet.
You're not even there yet.
You can think about it, butyou're not, you're right here.
What are you what you're righthere?
What ledge?
What are you talking about?
You're right here, and thosefears about what you're gonna do
when you're at the ledge, you'reyou're you're making them
(37:25):
manifest in a big way right nowwhen they're way over there.
And guess what?
By the time you get there, thethings that you were worried
about, they're not there.
There may be some things, butthe things that you have um
Caleb in the Bible.
SPEAKER_00 (37:40):
Is that I don't know, tell me.
He went up ahead, he and I don'trecall who else.
SPEAKER_01 (37:45):
Oh, this was this was this was before in the old
testament.
SPEAKER_00 (37:48):
Yeah, yeah, before Moses.
And they were supposed to goahead and forge away or
whatever.
They went and they're like, waita minute, there are giants out
there.
We are not going that way.
Our trip stops here.
(38:08):
Uh, you know, it's but some ofus do get paralyzed by that type
of thing.
I understand.
Especially, Ange, here's thething.
Especially if you're in acircumstance or a lifestyle
that's somewhat comfortable.
Yes, you're not thrown out ofit, right?
It has been working for you sofar.
SPEAKER_01 (38:30):
Right.
You know what I mean?
But what is that working foryou?
SPEAKER_00 (38:32):
Like, what does that mean?
SPEAKER_01 (38:34):
Is it basic?
Is it basic working for you?
Is it mediocrity?
But we want some of us Yes, someof us.
SPEAKER_00 (38:42):
Tell me.
Just talk about somebody I'mfamiliar with.
Uh are comfortable with basicneeds met.
You know, it's like some of usdon't need to reach higher.
You know what I mean?
We don't want to rock the boatand things like that.
I really do understand thatmindset.
SPEAKER_01 (39:01):
Yeah, so so my thing isn't rock the boat necessarily,
right?
My thing is not rocking theboat.
Quit hope.
And then I'll just I'm justsaying rocking the boat.
That's me.
SPEAKER_00 (39:17):
I do have fear.
I have a lot of fear about it,but it doesn't stop me.
SPEAKER_01 (39:22):
But I have a lot of fear.
What are you talking about?
I had a lot of fear, but itdidn't stop me.
And the thing is, I'm justsaying you I'm not expecting
y'all to be like me.
That's not what this is about.
It's not what this is about.
I'm saying if you havediscontent, if you have
(39:44):
discontent, then act on that.
Then then inquire about wherethat's coming from.
If you're happy and you know it,clap your hands.
Right?
But if you have discontent,especially as we get older, and
it's like, ooh, I really wishthat I wish yes.
SPEAKER_00 (40:03):
You know what I mean?
If you're feeling like you'reready for something.
That's what I'm talking about.
I think I'm gonna if I don'ttry, try.
Right.
If I don't try, I think I'mgonna be miserable.
SPEAKER_01 (40:14):
Exactly.
That's what I mean.
If you're if you're regret, ifyou're content, if you feel
fulfilled where you are,absolutely, I promise you,
there's zero judgment aroundthat.
I'm saying that if you feel thata rumbling, if you feel like you
know, like really like this isif it keeps coming back, even
(40:34):
when you try to, even when youtry to turn it down, if it
keeps, you know, coming back.
Inquire about you know what thatcould be and how that could
create a real shift for you.
Yeah.
So I'll I'll post some pictureswhen this is done.
Okay.
I'm kind of getting a littleinspiration from a style I saw
(40:56):
that Tyra Banks wear back in the2000s.
Um, I think that's the way thatI'm gonna style it.
It's gonna kind of be up, kindof like an up-down, um, uh half
up, half, half down, but messy.
So I'll show you.
I guess we'll see.
SPEAKER_00 (41:12):
You will see.
Well, thanks for sharing, Ange.
You're welcome.
So this has been another episodeof Black Boomer Besties from
Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_01 (41:24):
Brooklyn
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