November 24, 2025 • 56 mins
The Besties reflect on a morning of quiet prayer that turned into a cascade of miracles: a son spoke, moved, answered questions, and became eligible for a transfer to acute rehab.
Leslie describes the emotional whiplash of being both a physician and a mom when a loved one is ill. While Besties Angella and Leslie share their relief, they pivot to sharing practical wisdom on the conversations and structures families can have in place when crises arise.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
Hey Ange.
Hey Les.
How's it going?
Different.
You said different.
You are hilarious.
You are so funny.
Listen, I have been in WigWorld.
I have been in Wig World.
I just um yes, last night wasopening night of Legally Blonde
(00:25):
the musical that I um was hairand wig designer for.
And I've been in Wig World.
And listen, my hair was nottrying to do anything.
It was trying to be soft andfine and not in a good way.
Fine, not in a good way.
Not foreign.
And I was like, look, I've gotwigs and I'm gonna wear one.
(00:46):
And here we go.
SPEAKER_01 (00:47):
And here you go, and it looks good.
SPEAKER_00 (00:49):
Thank you.
Welcome back.
And welcome to another episodeof Black Boomer Besties from
Brooklyn.
Hey guys, I'm Angela, and that'sLeslie, my best friend of almost
50 years.
We are two free thinking60-something-year-old black
women who have decided to makejoy and boldness more pronounced
(01:12):
in our lives.
We invite you to join us on ourjourney.
We invite you to continue yourjourney.
We invite you to start yourjourney along with us.
Um, today we're gonna be um justinviting you in to do some
praise, praise and thanksgivingwith us with some new news that
(01:35):
Leslie will share.
And we also want to umreintroduce you to an episode
that we did in April of 2024,the 30th of April, by the way.
We will put a link to it, but umthat's the date about um uh
preparing for death with a deathdoula.
(01:58):
As you know, from two episodesago, Leslie has been in the um
in the very, very challengingposition of being a mother with
a uh a sick child.
Um he's not a child, but he'sher child.
He's my child.
And um, so hospitals and allthose things have been
(02:20):
ever-present every day for her,and we've got some news, some
updates on that, and we will betalking a little bit to
introduce you to the episodethat I just mentioned.
So, yeah, Les, why was I cryingtoday?
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
Why do I have you Ang, I haven't heard you boo-hoo
cry like that in quite a while.
It came from deep.
You were boo-hoo.
It was like a culmination of thetears that I've shed over the
last five weeks.
And oh my gosh.
(02:54):
But today started out such, itstarted out a little differently
for me, and I'll tell you why.
My son has been critically illfor more than a month now in the
hospital.
And between the ups and downsand the sitting at his bedside
(03:15):
and the hand-wringing and theworrying and the prayers and the
praising and all of thesethings, every single day it was
something different.
And I felt compelled to sit atbedside so that I can meet with
all of the teams that wouldround and come in for different.
So there was urologist, there'scardiologists, there's
(03:37):
pulmonologists, there's thenephrologist, there's
neurologist, and there's socialwork, and this, and the medical
team.
It was like so much of me didn'twant to be a physician, and then
so much of me didn't want to bea mom at the times when I needed
to be a physician.
It is the weirdest, craziestthing.
(03:59):
I wish I could be out herelooking at it instead I'm in it.
But this morning I woke up in adifferent way.
It was, it was almost like gameday decision-making time because
as his acute issues are slowlybecoming resolved, we have to
(04:21):
start thinking about placementand where he goes when he gets
discharged from the hospital.
So I've been faced with makingdecisions about where my
previously living alone,independent, working, driving,
whatever son, what happens tohim as he cannot take care of
(04:43):
himself at this point.
My choices were to send him toan acute rehab facility where he
can get more intense therapyversus a subacute, essentially a
nursing home where maybe he'llget an hour a day of therapy or
stimulation or whatever.
And as you can imagine, howpainful that is for me to think
(05:04):
about and make that decision.
So I woke up this morning in away that's differently than I
typically wake up.
You know, I didn't jump up, Idid not turn on the radio to
listen to the weather or thenews.
I really stayed quiet for awhile in prayer.
(05:25):
And that prayer took me throughgetting ready.
I rushed out, I didn't turn onthe radio in the car, I stayed
in that moment, you know,because I was just asking that
his will be done, you know, thatOmari be placed in the best
place for him, and that whereverit is, it's suitable for his
(05:48):
healing and complete wellness,right?
So here's where Leslie steps in.
I knew that today was going tobe a day that he was gonna be
re-evaluated by the physiatristand the physical therapy and the
occupational therapy team.
Up to this point, Omari has notbeen able to speak.
(06:11):
He has not had any movement inhis lower extremities, and his
exams have been inconsistent.
So I'm like, oh, and we askedthem like one more time, one
more again, come back, comeback.
This time it's gonna bedifferent.
So listen, the last two daysI've been in his ear like a
(06:33):
coach.
Listen, Mari, this is it.
Come on.
If never you've been able to dothis before, this is it.
This is game time.
So there was an episode where,and I guess this is part of the
process because here's this37-year-old man lying in a bed
(06:53):
for five weeks.
They wonder if he was depressed,but he was refusing his
medications, right?
And he literally like held thisliquid in his mouth for 45
minutes while we, you know, andthen spit it out.
unknown (07:06):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (07:06):
And he was kind of like, with his eyes closed,
pretending to be asleep.
I'm like, this is not the dayfor this.
This is not the day.
I said, they're gonna ask you tosay something, don't nod your
head.
You gotta use your voice.
And I'm like, they're gonna askyou to push in your legs.
And let me tell you, my son.
(07:29):
And not just my son, my God,because this guy did things this
morning that I had no idea.
He couldn't believe it.
First of all, he started outfeeding himself clumsily, but he
was using his hands and feedinghimself.
And they asked him, what seasonis this?
(07:50):
Or some such thing.
They're like, there's a holidaynext week.
What holiday is it?
First of all, if you're in ahospital for over a month, how
the hell do you know whatholiday is?
SPEAKER_00 (07:58):
If you're living your life, are you you're gonna
be able to do it?
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
They say, okay, it's Turkey Day.
What days of the week isThanksgiving on?
He's like, Thursday.
Like, my God.
What?
I was in the corner like doing apraise dance.
And then they asked me if I hadlotion.
I didn't understand why, but Ithought maybe they were gonna
(08:20):
lotion his back.
So I handed them a jar of thislovely cream.
And they hand they told him totake it in his hand.
He did.
And they told him to take someand rub it on his legs.
Didn't my guy take some and rubit on his legs?
I'm like, what?
Nothing short of America.
(08:41):
Then they handed him like awashcloth and said, wipe your
face with it.
He took it and I'm like, I haveseen it all.
Oh my god.
I have seen my job here, it isdone.
So it was so impressive, I'lltell you that the team that had
(09:05):
been following him came in tosee, I gotta see it for myself.
And then I got word that he isgoing to be transferred to the
facility that I want him to betransferred to.
The acute rehab, where he getshours of therapy every day, very
intense therapy, and it's veryclose to work that I can just
(09:28):
drop in.
And I'm on staff there at thehospital.
SPEAKER_00 (09:31):
Praise God.
So can you tell them about thewhen when you were leaving the
room, what you said, and what heresponded with?
SPEAKER_01 (09:41):
It was in a different language.
There was a couple things.
Oh, oh.
I um I said to him, um, that waswhen he was getting the lumbar
puncture.
I said, um, Bueno Suerte.
And he responded back, BuenoSuerte.
And I said, what does that mean?
SPEAKER_02 (09:59):
He said, good luck.
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
I'm like, there you go, there you go.
My guy is by multilingual.
Coming back.
Multilingual.
SPEAKER_00 (10:10):
Multilingual.
What?
Yeah.
Unbelievable.
Yeah.
Listen, y'all, this is this iswhat miracles look like.
This is what y'all, this is ourreporting of the Red Sea.
SPEAKER_01 (10:25):
This is it.
And I'll tell you what, whatalso happened, then neurologist
took me in the hallway and shesays, What happened?
What happened?
She's like, because she evenasked him, what, and she said,
What happened?
I'm like, I don't have anexplanation, but I've been
praying.
Prayer works for me.
I don't know about you.
(10:46):
Right.
But she's like, what happened?
This was Yeah.
And the reason we're bringingthis to you and talking to you
about it, one, because it justhappened.
I just got word that everythingis, is, is, we're going to be
all right.
It takes a big load off mychest.
But I also wanted to say anotherthing about, I made an attempt
(11:11):
to pay his telephone bill.
And I called up his carrier.
And they said, Well, do you haveaccess to his email address?
I'm like, no, I have his phonein my hand, but I don't know
anything about it.
They like, well, we can't helpyou.
And I'm like, look, I need tospeak to a supervisor.
(11:31):
Well, they're going to tell youthe same thing.
I said, look, this is abusiness.
She said, well, we can't makeexceptions for you.
I said, this is not exception.
This is real life.
I said, people die, people haveheart attacks, people have
strokes, they becomeincapacitated.
There are legal ways to handlesuch things.
(11:53):
I said, I have his power ofattorney documents notarized
that he signed.
I am his healthcare power ofattorney and his business for
everything else.
Where do I send the legaldocuments in?
This is not an exception.
This is real life.
Tell me where I send it in.
And you're trying to give themoney.
(12:14):
And I'm trying to pay a bill.
I said, I'm not trying to getanything from his account.
I just need to pay his bill.
The most we can do is extend it14 days.
I said, unacceptable, putsomebody else on the phone.
And finally, they sent me in anemail for legal department.
I haven't heard back yet, butthe point all this that we're
(12:35):
bringing to is that here we havea young man.
This is not at prayerfully theend of his life, but people die.
People die unexpectedly.
There's we have all kinds ofdigital footprints and presents.
There are, I couldn't get intohis telephone because he's
(13:01):
incapacitated.
I don't know many of hisaccounts.
I have to look through hispapers to find out who he banks
with.
All those things.
So as I was talking to Angeabout that today, she says, wait
a minute, didn't we do an uh apodcast about this some time
ago?
So whereas I was we were goingto discuss some of the same
(13:24):
things that we figured that itwould be helpful to have in
place to ask your loved ones andthings, just in case, just to
know.
unknown (13:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
We're not gonna repeat ourselves.
We we've done this already.
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
And let me tell you, it was done well.
It was very, very well done.
Very well done.
The episode is called What YouNever Knew You Needed, uh, Death
Doula.
And it featured um uh Aluaauthor.
She wrote this book called Goingwith Grace, and she is a
(14:02):
self-described death doula.
We learned about her from theTherapy for Black Girls um
podcast.
Um and we talked about how thethe the the conversation was
around how we're preparing fordeath, and how that preparation
is not for the the the the thedying or or the person who who
(14:27):
dies.
It's for the people who are leftbehind.
Right.
And it can be a gift, it is agift.
And Leslie talked about some ofher personal experiences with
the death of people around her,and it was just so well done.
We were like, listen, this isgonna reinvent the wheel.
SPEAKER_01 (14:45):
That's what we're gonna do about.
We're not gonna do it.
And I gotta get back to thehospital.
SPEAKER_00 (14:49):
Yes, you do.
Yes, you do.
Someone's waiting on you.
Someone is waiting to get, oh mygosh, I can't.
Every time I think about it, Istill have a headache from this
morning.
Just the the the the blessingsof God.
And we, you know, you you weknow that the journey is is
(15:10):
going to be long and there aregoing to be highs and lows.
But in this moment, right now,this is the most beautiful.
We see that he's in there.
He's a lion.
He he showed up, he understood,he is translating language.
It it it it it just just just ontime, you guys don't even know
(15:34):
how long it's been since we'veseen him in this this state of
awareness and engagement.
It is a miracle, it is amiracle, period.
Yeah.
Punto.
So um enjoy the episode.
We will um we will be uhbringing you updates because um
(15:57):
this stuff is important, right?
It is, and it's not just forpeople who are dying.
SPEAKER_01 (16:02):
Yes, there are things that we need to know
about our loved ones, people wecare for, people we're in charge
of.
Things we have to step up intoresponsibilities that we need
information and exchange ofthings in order to do that,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (16:20):
You know?
Right.
Something you said in theepisode, Les, that was so fun.
You said um, you said uh the theevery the only way out of this
is dying.
Everybody's gonna die.
You can't get out of thiswithout being dead.
So this is for this is foreveryone.
There's no escaping.
There's no escaping.
(16:42):
Um so anyway, with that, enjoyour episode what you never knew
you needed a death doula.
Enjoy.
Hey Ange.
Hey Les, what's cooking?
SPEAKER_01 (16:58):
All good in this hood.
SPEAKER_00 (17:01):
All good in my new hood.
It's so good.
It's so good.
SPEAKER_01 (17:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Today's a good day.
I'm gonna jump right into ourpodcast.
So I'll start by saying, welcometo another episode of Black
Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
Brooklyn.
I feel compelled to say this isthe Invisalign edition because I
(17:28):
have my teeth in it.
I feel myself slurring already.
I don't want to take them out tospeak.
So I'm just putting it outthere.
I don't have this much of alisp.
Normally, I do have a lot ofvoices in it.
That's hilarious.
(17:48):
So I think maybe it's I'm onlyabout a month and a half in, so
okay, okay.
You know, it'll in other words,it'll be longer than they say
it, probably.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (18:02):
All right.
SPEAKER_01 (18:02):
But I see a difference.
You're on the journey.
You're on the journey.
I asked them not to close thegap in the front of my teeth,
and it looks like the gap isclosing.
People don't listen.
People don't listen to what weknow?
No, no, no.
It looks like the gap isclosing.
But I like the way it looks.
I like it.
SPEAKER_00 (18:18):
You need I'm just saying.
I need to say something, mate.
SPEAKER_01 (18:28):
I need to say something.
SPEAKER_00 (18:29):
It's a part of your heritage.
You need to say something.
You need to say something.
That is it's it's very much uh apart of your African ancestry.
So you need to say something.
SPEAKER_01 (18:39):
All right, I'll I'll look again and reevaluate that.
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Listen, this is gonna be adoozy.
SPEAKER_01 (18:49):
I know, and it is so right up my alley that people
are gonna think I'm weird.
But by the end of this episode,now they're gonna weird.
By the end of this episode,they're gonna get me.
They're gonna feel me.
SPEAKER_00 (19:06):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (19:07):
So I had occasion to listen to a podcast that it's
like, we gotta talk about this,Ange.
We gotta talk about this, Ange.
What were you gonna say?
Because I may not stop talkingonce I start.
SPEAKER_00 (19:25):
Nothing new as well.
I was going to say that I also,well, I listened to some of it,
but as soon as you sent me theemail and I read the summary,
I'm like, this is so Leslie'sthing.
And so it's um, I'm I'm lookingforward to this because number
(19:48):
one, it's so freaking important.
Number two, because we have somuch experience in this.
You in terms of doing the rightthing, me in terms of my
experiences um not having donethe right thing.
And I think it's really going tohelp people to get in gear,
including myself.
(20:10):
Because it's, you know, come on,let's go.
Come on, let's go.
SPEAKER_01 (20:16):
All right, not too many more shopping days till
Christmas.
SPEAKER_00 (20:19):
Not too many.
SPEAKER_01 (20:20):
In the words of that sage Monique.
So I listen to a podcast um andI get correspondence from them.
It's called Therapy for BlackGirls.
Yeah.
Uh, you might have introduced meto that some years ago when I
was looking for a therapist.
SPEAKER_00 (20:39):
Um I thank you for giving me um my props for that
because I am indeed the one whoconnects.
SPEAKER_01 (20:48):
And it's not just for black girls, it's it's not
for dudes as well.
But anyway, um so it's run by uma psychiatrist in Atlanta, Dr.
Joy Hardin Bradford.
And I listened to her mostrecent podcast episode, and a
(21:09):
light went off.
She was featuring a lady thattitles herself a death dueler.
Amazing.
You're like, what?
Now, first of all, I'm familiarwith labor and delivery doolers
that support um people in andaround their pregnancies and
(21:34):
deliveries, but I've never heardof the term a death dueler.
In fact, I kind of bristled atthe term initially.
Because more on that later.
I think it has a connotation ofum morbidity for sure, mortality
(21:55):
for certain, death.
Okay, and I like so many peoplewhen I hear the word death, it
just sets up a wholeconstellation of ideas.
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
Okay.
So let me just bristle at itbecause you you have experience
with um with doulas, and and weum generally understand doulas
to be people who support newlife, and so you bristled at the
(22:29):
idea of uh how can end of life.
What the heck?
Yeah, it it wasn't, but itwasn't that.
SPEAKER_01 (22:35):
It was it wasn't that.
I I think in my humanness and asa normal person, I also feel
some kind of way when I thinkabout death and end of life.
So, in that regard, but I justwant to talk a little bit about
my experiences with deathpersonally.
I have mentioned probably manytimes that I grew up in a house
(22:59):
with five generations um in onehome.
So I was fortunate and blessedto grow up with
great-grandparents.
Um, well into my mid-20s, um, Ibelieve my grandmother, my
great-grandmother um died.
I'll use the word, I start tosay pass away.
Died, um, I was 26 at the time.
(23:22):
Uh, Nana Margaret um lived inour home.
We cared for her, and I was ableto witness the end of many of my
relatives' life.
And then when I went to medicalschool, I um had the occasion to
see patients at the end of theirlives and interact with their
(23:46):
families, and I felt a certainum kinship and connection to
them, unusually so for a medicalstudent.
Um and I wondered what that was,and I remember two particular
incidents where one was a veryyoung man who died in a car
(24:10):
accident.
He must have been 19, I've toldyou about that story.
And an um another was an olderperson, but I forced myself to
stay in the patient's room andthe family's room after they
died.
And I remember forcing myself tostay silent and let them process
(24:32):
it and grieve in that way.
And I was proud of myself.
I remembered how difficult itwas not to say anything or try
to console them immediately oroffer a medical explanation, but
to let them lead the session.
That was impactful for me.
(24:53):
Um, well, one when these thingshappen, the physicians often
leave because of the finality ofit all.
They may pronounce the patientand express their, you know, I'm
sorry for your loss.
SPEAKER_02 (25:08):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:09):
And and then they leave because quite honestly, we
have other things to do, or wemay have paperwork to do or
whatever.
And in the case of the19-year-old young man, um, my
son, I don't think was that oldat the time, but you know, I
connected you know, with them asa parent.
I knew what it must feel like tolose your child.
(25:32):
I who would know that in thatvery same hospital, I would
almost have that very sameexperience in the emergency
room, almost losing my childafter Omari had his car
accident.
Same exact hospital, same exactER, same physician staff.
But anyway, um, but I made thatconnection, and then I felt that
(25:54):
as a medical student, we oftenhave the jobs of doing things
that the physicians, you know,don't do.
And I didn't want to leave theparents in the room by
themselves.
So I stayed in there.
SPEAKER_00 (26:11):
Wow.
Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_01 (26:16):
Anyway, man, it could just take me right back
there.
So anyway, that experiencereally throughout the rest of my
uh medical school career andthroughout residency, I really
became particularly interestedin um the eth the medical ethics
(26:41):
around a patient at the end oftheir life.
Um how to support best supportfamilies at that time.
And then what I termed a gooddeath.
So I um volunteered to be oncommittees while I was in
(27:05):
medical school and residency andum take more courses and read
more about it and things likethat.
So that's my history um with umwith my interest in it.
So now um fast forward a couplemore years, um my father
(27:27):
recently died two years ago, andit has been my role over the
years with all of my familymembers and friends, and we've
talked about this with thepodcast, that I talk to people
about what end-of-life planninglooks like.
SPEAKER_02 (27:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:47):
And we even had our friend Carl Chen, the estate
planning attorney, um, do twoepisodes on our podcast
previously.
We'll we can link them um sopeople can remember, but um the
legal part of it and thelegacies that you can leave for
your families and wills andadvanced directives, what would
(28:11):
you want to happen um on yourlast days or when you cannot no
longer make decisions foryourself?
So I had not realized howimpactful my conversations with
my father over the years hadbeen because when he passed,
well, he became um cognitivelyimpaired from a stroke first, so
(28:34):
was unable to make decisions forhimself several years before he
died.
SPEAKER_02 (28:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (28:39):
I didn't even know, but I re uh received a packet in
the mail from an estate planningattorney's office that dad had
made me power of attorney,completed his will, did all
these things.
I gotta tell you, as difficultas it could have been, his
(29:00):
passing and death and planninghis estate was perfectly
planned.
Wow.
It made my and my brother andsister's lives so much easier.
Him having put those things inplace.
Yeah.
And I'm like, yes, okay.
(29:22):
I gotta tell everybody whatsuccess in this arena looks
like, right?
So, you know, I talk about thata lot.
We had to call on because it'simportant and stuff.
Most of us do not have thesethings in place.
SPEAKER_02 (29:35):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (29:36):
Um, the first thing that I hear most commonly when I
speak about it, even with myhusband, you know, I'm like, are
you sure you have this orwhatever?
You know, do you have let's talkabout he'll say, It's Sunday.
Why do you want to talk aboutthat?
Or I don't want to talk aboutthis right now.
Can we do this another time?
(29:58):
And then I become a nag.
And it seems like I'm notwaiting for him to die.
But it's a similar conversationI have with my mother.
What I think about is that atthe end of a person's life, when
family is surrounded andgathering and grief, the last
(30:18):
thing we want to do is look forpaperwork, is clear out a home,
is sort through importantpapers, looking for things that
you can't find, and trying tosettle financial matters and
things like that.
I think taking care of thesethings ahead of time is a gift
(30:42):
that you give to your lovedones.
SPEAKER_00 (30:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I um so many things, so manythings that um came to mind.
I remember it was way before umyour father died.
Um way before.
I think maybe you were still inmedical school or shortly after,
(31:10):
where you told me the role thatI was gonna have.
You sent me all the paperwork.
I know exactly where it is.
Um I mean, it was tied with abow.
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
I made you my healthcare proxy, uh, you and my
sister.
And remember that Ernest had bigproblems with that.
He's a physician, he's myhusband, etc.
But the thing that I realizedearly on with Ernest is that he
and I think differently about,you know, um what to do when
(31:49):
your heart stops or, you know,cold status and different ruby
and different things, differentthings like that.
And people don't realize myhusband loves me.
I know that.
But when I say I don't want anyextraordinary, I don't want to
be on a ventilator on machines,I know that he would not be able
(32:10):
to honor my wishes.
And people don't realize thatwhen you are in that role as a
proxy, you are the voice of theperson.
It is not your own voice.
So I learned I knew early onthat Ernest would not, in his
own consciousness, be able to uhrespect the wishes that I would
(32:33):
want for myself.
And that's why I named peopleother than him.
But he was upset about it.
You know, it it was created arift.
Whereas he would want to be on aventilator or let's say, or
artificial um support until hecrumbled in the hospital bed,
until he touched him and he wasdesiccated and he would be
(33:01):
ashes, he would be ashes toashes before while the machine
is still beeping.
And I did tell him that ifthat's what you want, my dear, I
could do that for you.
Right, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (33:14):
So yeah.
So oh my gosh.
Um I so I listened to thepodcast as well, and so many
things.
Right.
We didn't even get into the thatthat content as yet.
Well, it's it's kind of like oneof the reasons why I'm like,
(33:37):
Les, we have to we have to do arecording on this because um I
know that you had someparticular experiences um and
mine were quite different.
I don't have all of these thingsdone.
(33:58):
Um I saw the experience.
Um my father, he had pretty muchdisconnected from a lot of our
societal um norms in terms ofkeeping track of all of that
stuff long ago.
So um, but my mother um I Ithink it maybe it was just
(34:26):
because of um uh growing up, notin a place or um where there
were societal norms aroundplanning for death, you know,
Cuba, Jamaica, and then cominghere.
My mother was a very practicalperson.
She took care of things, um uh,you know, always kind of had
(34:49):
money set aside if we needed totake a trip to Jamaica,
especially while my grandparentswere alive, because you know, at
any point when they got sick, wewould all go.
Um, so she was very practical interms of those things.
But I think there were just somethings that she just didn't
know.
And then when she went intocognitive decline with um
(35:09):
dementia, um uh my sister didput some things in place, um,
and we needed to put some thingsin place because eventually um
she went into a um um uh a home,a care facility.
And so we needed to have thosethings in order to advocate for
(35:30):
her.
But up up un to this day, mymother has money in a bank
account that I have not beenable to get access to.
Um she wasn't kind of an onlineperson, you know.
Um that I think she died beforeit really got, you know, that
(35:52):
that was kind of the way oflife.
Um but I know that there's somuch that I need to do for my
children.
Um, some years ago, if youremember, I had um a head talk.
Um, I I used to have thesecourageous conversations in my
home.
Head was um an acronym.
(36:15):
Um uh highlighting and embracingum highlight, embrace and
something diversity um was theacronym for head talks.
Um anyway, and I had someonecome in to talk who lit who
worked in a um healthcarefacility to talk about um death
(36:37):
and dying.
And what really struck me isthat you do these things not for
you.
You're gone, you've died, youare it wherever your faith is is
gonna take you, that's where youare.
And your family is left withwhat's what's left of you, your
(37:02):
family, including your body, butalso all of your history is left
with your family.
Um for me, it would be young up,you know, adult children, but
you know, still in their 20s.
Um and it's for them.
It's for them, and it's a matterof prioritizing.
(37:25):
But I really need help to getover.
I've done things up to a point,and then I allowed something to
stop me.
Right.
When they were younger, it wasbecause, oh, I didn't know how I
was gonna handle um Isaiahbecause he was um he's five
years younger than um my middleson.
And I got stuck in thinkingabout how their father, who's
(37:48):
not really involved in theirlives, how I would manage their
father's um involvement if Idied when he was a minor.
And so things like that alongthe way just have kind of
crippled me in terms of takingaction.
I mean, I've cataloged things,I've I got a book where I listed
everything out.
(38:09):
You know, where'd you get thebook?
I I haven't Leslie, because thisis who she is.
I distributed them to all mybuds.
Yes, and I, you know, inpacking, I came across it again.
I'm like, oh my god, I gottaupdate this.
Me too, my own.
It's been so long.
Um, so anyway, we both we've hadvery different experiences um
(38:33):
with this these systems that wehave to put in place.
And so when I listen to thepodcast about a deaf doula, I'm
like, what a blessing she is tothose families who bring her on
board.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (38:49):
So now I'll bring up the fact that I love the fact
that she used the word death,not end-of-life doula, not your
final doula.
I think we need to destigmatizethat word.
SPEAKER_00 (39:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:04):
I think the more that we use it, the better, the
less it will sting, the less itwe will bristle about it.
It would be like it.
I would love it to become anyother word.
Because what she does, she notonly supports who is she?
Well, yes, I was gonna say Whois she?
(39:25):
A Lua author.
Her first name is A L-U-A.
She is the founder of a companyuh called Going with Grace, and
she recently um published amemoir called Briefly Perfect
Human.
(39:46):
She has training as an attorney,and she had um an encounter with
a woman who was um terminallyill, and in their conversations,
she came back um from the tripand determined that her life was
(40:08):
not the way that she wanted itto be, and really started
thinking about forming this umbusiness that she now runs and
the need for it.
SPEAKER_00 (40:20):
Um it's can I say one thing, Les?
Yeah, I'll forget so one thingthat really hit me as I was
listening to her journey ingetting here is um so she
(40:44):
mentioned that one of thereasons why she left the legal
profession is because she um hadpretty severe depression and she
she she left and went on thisjourney to Cuba, and that's
where she met this this person.
Yeah.
(41:05):
And at some point she talkedabout the fact that getting
involved in this this death workand helping people through and
getting to having a sense of umof uh almost um respect for for
(41:26):
death and and the person who iswho is in the process of dying.
It addressed it it helped herwith her depression.
She she she said that she willalways have it.
It's not like it went away.
And so it made me start thinkingabout joy in the midst of, and
(41:49):
you know, when I talk about joy,it is not we're not talking
about happy.
That is not what I mean when Italk about joy.
Yeah, I talk about fulfillmentand satisfaction and and and
deep-seated, it's much moredeep-seated, right?
And I really thought about man,how much more joy would we have
(42:12):
knowing that these things are inplace for our likelines when we
go?
SPEAKER_01 (42:19):
This could be a real source of joy and yeah, it does
not have to be a morbid darkthought that I she doesn't work
only with people who are at theend of their life at an end
stage.
It's a continuum of support andwhat things do you need to get
(42:40):
in place.
I remember I recently printedout what um Facebook, not
Facebook, Apple, calls theirlegacy key.
It's like a 35-digit um passwordper se, right, so that a loved
(43:01):
one or another person can accessyour Apple ID.
There's a whole lot ofinformation that could be lost
when you pass away and peopledon't know your passwords or
this or that.
Who could I don't even know mypassword.
SPEAKER_02 (43:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (43:17):
Let alone someone else.
So it's these types of thingsthat in her work, Miss Arthur um
has put together this companythat can navigate and steer
people, even to consider thethings that you need to
consider.
Do they have a digital onlinepresence?
What about all of theirfinancial accounts and insurance
(43:42):
policies?
Um, are there any other legalthings that need to be taken
care of to be put in place tomake a transition easy?
She even mentioned that um whenher brother-in-law died, he they
wanted to give his car to theirnephew.
And they ran into so manyobstacles just to transfer a
(44:04):
title.
Yeah.
You know, because it had to gointo the estate first and then
sit and probate or this or that.
And I was remembering how easyit was for me to give my
father's car away, although Iremembered that I gave I donated
his car to Cars for Kids orsomething like that before he
passed.
So that's why I bypassed thestep of including it in his
(44:28):
estate.
But um, there are so many thingsthat you don't even need to
think about because someone elsehas done that.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
So it's it's not, I don't lookat it as death planning per se,
but it's life planning andhelping with decision making for
(44:50):
things that we don't need tothink about.
Because you'll miss something.
But there are so many differentsteps.
Like I said to my mom, I'veasked her at least in the last
10 years, can you start paringdown your clothing, your
artwork, your tchotchkis, yourthings, start, you know, letting
(45:12):
people know, giving awaypictures now.
And, you know, because when shepasses, if she passes before me,
I will not go through pocketslooking for things of value and
drawers.
There's 50 years of being in ourfamily home of four full floor,
(45:32):
four floors.
Say that five times with a lineis in your mouth, with four
floors.
And I could, my siblings and I,we could never go through
everything.
It's really gonna be bundled upand discarded or given away in
mass.
We have no idea what could belost.
Right.
You know, right.
(45:54):
And and the time to think aboutit is when you have the energy
and you're free from illness,you know, time for us to think
about me is now, you is now,except, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (46:06):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (46:08):
But someone like Alua Arthur with her company
could be very instrumental insupporting decision making and
families.
And she says she um she workswith often whole people, you
know, the whole family members,you know, or individuals that
(46:29):
want to give this what I callthe ultimate gift to their loved
ones.
SPEAKER_00 (46:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (46:34):
So interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (46:35):
Yeah, she described um having a group of maybe 16
people in a family all fillingout the paperwork and all.
I mean, that's how about thatfor a family vacation?
That would be, you know what Imean?
SPEAKER_01 (46:48):
I could envision because you imagine what the
flyer looks like a keynotespeaker for our family reunion,
Death Doula.
People will like, what the hell?
Lizzie done gone mad.
What is the flyer?
Did you see what?
I don't think I'm doing.
SPEAKER_00 (47:09):
You know, maybe a lot of what gets in the way for
people too.
Um, I'm wondering if this is thecase for me.
No, this is not my issue, but itgets them to realize that um
there is finality.
And so the things that they'reignoring, like how how they're
eating and whether they'reexercising, it it forces them to
(47:30):
actually take stock of that.
Start thinking about mortality.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (47:37):
But yeah, but nobody leaves this earth without dying.
We ain't gonna get away.
We're not gonna escape it.
So, how about we go on our ownterms rather than the state's
terms or your family's terms whomay not um either know or be in
agreement with your finalwishes?
(47:59):
I've had a lot of um family lossrecently.
I lost a young cousin, um 28 ornine years old, uh, a couple
weeks ago, and he had a umprotracted illness, but toward
um the last month or so, towardthe last month or so of his
(48:24):
life, he didn't want anyvisitors.
He seemed like he was depressed,and his grandmother, um, my
aunt, uh, you know, wanted tocontinue treatment and all, and
I did remind her that um we haveto honor what it is that he
(48:47):
wants for himself, not what wewould want, because we would
want to hold them close and keepthem forever.
Um yeah, I I had thatconversation with her, a painful
one, you know.
And then more recently, about aweek and a half ago, I lost a um
(49:07):
a dear cousin who was a uhphysician, uh, another physician
in the family, and she was uhJehovah's Witness.
Her sisters um respected thefact that she did not want any
funeral or any kind of publicservice with her passing, and
(49:28):
that we may do some type of lifecelebration um at a later time
for her, for um Pinky.
Um her sister did say that umshe was somewhat of a hoarder
and collected a lot of stuff.
There were patient charts andpatients calling, trying to make
appointments still.
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02 (49:48):
Oof.
SPEAKER_01 (49:49):
Um that her sisters, not physicians, had to deal with
and close up the office andthings like that.
And I haven't checked in in awhile, but I can only imagine in
your grieving having to takecare of a checklist of tasks.
SPEAKER_00 (50:09):
Right.
Right.
You know?
Right, yeah, yeah.
So, okay, Les.
Oof.
Gotta do it.
I know, I know.
SPEAKER_01 (50:20):
And this is not to be a depressing conversation.
It's not a good thing.
No, it doesn't have to be.
It's it gets depressing when ifI'm end stage and on my
deathbed, that's when thedepression, you know, might
start.
But if I'm talking to you now,hey, we could talk about it over
a martini.
SPEAKER_00 (50:37):
But for me, it's not a depressing thing.
To me, this this personally,this is not depressing.
This is not a depressing topic.
What gets in my way is theactual um is the actual taking,
taking action.
Okay, I gotta get this stufftogether.
Okay, I have to hire this personor I have to.
(51:00):
It's really carving out thetime.
It's almost like carving out thetime to to liquidate.
SPEAKER_01 (51:06):
I was I was thinking the same thing because there's
so many so many things in thisregard that I need to do myself,
an update and this and that,which I haven't done.
I've I've acquired, I think, twoconvertibles since I've last
done my two convertibles in ahouse.
It's like that are not gonnaturn to I'm gonna take them uh a
(51:28):
little piece of uh a pen andjust like jot it down, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (51:33):
Oh, and another thing.
Oh, and another thing.
So Les, before we go, um, youhad mentioned um I can't
remember what the context was,but how talking to people and
letting them know what yourwishes are, that that's yeah,
and you know, you know I'm thatguy.
SPEAKER_01 (51:53):
So even if even if you don't put things in writing,
which is the ideal way andnotarize and part of your estate
plan, but and the legal way.
If you and right, but even ifyou talk to your family members
and let them know what it isthat you want, she's always said
that she doesn't want to beburied, she wants to be
(52:15):
cremated.
Even if that's not in your uhwritten down, you know, your
family members at least can knowthat in the absence of
paperwork, what if they can'tfind your paperwork?
You know, they know that listen,if they put your behind in the
ground, it ain't what you want.
They can do that if they want.
Sleepless nights and beinghaunted, but haunted.
(52:48):
What is that knocking?
You know, do that at your peril.
So, yeah, by talking about it,the other thing that talking
about it, it kind of like it umnumbs the the, you know, it
neutralizes things, it kind ofnumbs the sting a little bit.
(53:10):
Oh, she's always talking aboutthat.
Let's normalize these types ofthings because it is normal to
leave this for earth and death.
unknown (53:18):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (53:18):
We gotta know that.
We gotta know that.
SPEAKER_00 (53:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (53:22):
You know, even Moses didn't live forever.
How long how long did um youknow, like these folks?
He didn't even get to thepromised land.
He was like, You guys keepgoing, keep going, go on without
me.
You know.
SPEAKER_00 (53:41):
Oh my gosh, yeah.
Okay, yes, ma'am.
Yes, um.
SPEAKER_01 (53:49):
That is my story for today.
So, you know, I guess we allhave our marching orders.
And you know what?
Let's hold each otheraccountable.
You all hold your loved onesaccountable.
Has it been done?
Did you do it?
Maybe you can buy them a book orsomething to write, write things
in, you know, when circumstanceschange, update it.
But it's more than that.
You know, you and I talked aboutthat um there's some kind of um
(54:14):
composting.
I know it sounds so weird.
I told Ernest this and he kindof looked at me like, well, what
the hell is my wife talkingabout now?
You can compost your body.
It is a service.
We'll put that in.
Uh I wrote it down.
Uh, not many people do it thesedays, but it is some type of
(54:35):
ceremony where you are put backinto the earth from whence you
came.
SPEAKER_00 (54:41):
Um, it's it's uh it's a pod, it's a composting.
Is that what you mean?
SPEAKER_01 (54:48):
Yeah, yeah.
Your body is wrapped in organicmaterial, and you are put in a
place where you naturallydecompose and a beautiful tree
blossoms on top of you, and thisthat's what I want.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (55:02):
It's expensive and it's a process, but I don't know
what the other expensive is.
So is that wooden box?
Exactly.
It is exactly in comparison.
I I I don't think it would be itwould be an issue.
Yeah.
Yeah.
unknown (55:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (55:18):
Let's put money aside for that.
I think on one of our vacations,Les, we met me to set aside time
and go look at the compost.
SPEAKER_01 (55:28):
My body's gonna be right in there.
SPEAKER_00 (55:30):
No, no, no.
I'm gonna choose which tree Iwant to be.
Okay.
No, but just to just to getthat, um, get me started on
this.
I tried to do it once before,but then we just were having so
good a time.
But I know, but I really want todo it over to some of the basic,
some of the basic okay.
(55:52):
Some of the basic things.
And just yeah, yeah.
All right, okay.
Well, I'm with you.
SPEAKER_01 (55:59):
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn is produced by
Angela Fraser.
Our editing team is from MattDershowitz, and our marketing
social media team is by CoutureCopywriting.
So this has been another episodeof Black Boomer Besties from
(56:21):
Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_02 (56:22):
Brooklyn!
Hey Ange.
Hey Les.
How's it going?
Different.
You said different.
You are hilarious.
You are so funny.
Listen, I have been in WigWorld.
I have been in Wig World.
I just um yes, last night wasopening night of Legally Blonde
(00:25):
the musical that I um was hairand wig designer for.
And I've been in Wig World.
And listen, my hair was nottrying to do anything.
It was trying to be soft andfine and not in a good way.
Fine, not in a good way.
Not foreign.
And I was like, look, I've gotwigs and I'm gonna wear one.
(00:46):
And here we go.
SPEAKER_01 (00:47):
And here you go, and it looks good.
SPEAKER_00 (00:49):
Thank you.
Welcome back.
And welcome to another episodeof Black Boomer Besties from
Brooklyn.
Hey guys, I'm Angela, and that'sLeslie, my best friend of almost
50 years.
We are two free thinking60-something-year-old black
women who have decided to makejoy and boldness more pronounced
(01:12):
in our lives.
We invite you to join us on ourjourney.
We invite you to continue yourjourney.
We invite you to start yourjourney along with us.
Um, today we're gonna be um justinviting you in to do some
praise, praise and thanksgivingwith us with some new news that
(01:35):
Leslie will share.
And we also want to umreintroduce you to an episode
that we did in April of 2024,the 30th of April, by the way.
We will put a link to it, but umthat's the date about um uh
preparing for death with a deathdoula.
(01:58):
As you know, from two episodesago, Leslie has been in the um
in the very, very challengingposition of being a mother with
a uh a sick child.
Um he's not a child, but he'sher child.
He's my child.
And um, so hospitals and allthose things have been
(02:20):
ever-present every day for her,and we've got some news, some
updates on that, and we will betalking a little bit to
introduce you to the episodethat I just mentioned.
So, yeah, Les, why was I cryingtoday?
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
Why do I have you Ang, I haven't heard you boo-hoo
cry like that in quite a while.
It came from deep.
You were boo-hoo.
It was like a culmination of thetears that I've shed over the
last five weeks.
And oh my gosh.
(02:54):
But today started out such, itstarted out a little differently
for me, and I'll tell you why.
My son has been critically illfor more than a month now in the
hospital.
And between the ups and downsand the sitting at his bedside
(03:15):
and the hand-wringing and theworrying and the prayers and the
praising and all of thesethings, every single day it was
something different.
And I felt compelled to sit atbedside so that I can meet with
all of the teams that wouldround and come in for different.
So there was urologist, there'scardiologists, there's
(03:37):
pulmonologists, there's thenephrologist, there's
neurologist, and there's socialwork, and this, and the medical
team.
It was like so much of me didn'twant to be a physician, and then
so much of me didn't want to bea mom at the times when I needed
to be a physician.
It is the weirdest, craziestthing.
(03:59):
I wish I could be out herelooking at it instead I'm in it.
But this morning I woke up in adifferent way.
It was, it was almost like gameday decision-making time because
as his acute issues are slowlybecoming resolved, we have to
(04:21):
start thinking about placementand where he goes when he gets
discharged from the hospital.
So I've been faced with makingdecisions about where my
previously living alone,independent, working, driving,
whatever son, what happens tohim as he cannot take care of
(04:43):
himself at this point.
My choices were to send him toan acute rehab facility where he
can get more intense therapyversus a subacute, essentially a
nursing home where maybe he'llget an hour a day of therapy or
stimulation or whatever.
And as you can imagine, howpainful that is for me to think
(05:04):
about and make that decision.
So I woke up this morning in away that's differently than I
typically wake up.
You know, I didn't jump up, Idid not turn on the radio to
listen to the weather or thenews.
I really stayed quiet for awhile in prayer.
(05:25):
And that prayer took me throughgetting ready.
I rushed out, I didn't turn onthe radio in the car, I stayed
in that moment, you know,because I was just asking that
his will be done, you know, thatOmari be placed in the best
place for him, and that whereverit is, it's suitable for his
(05:48):
healing and complete wellness,right?
So here's where Leslie steps in.
I knew that today was going tobe a day that he was gonna be
re-evaluated by the physiatristand the physical therapy and the
occupational therapy team.
Up to this point, Omari has notbeen able to speak.
(06:11):
He has not had any movement inhis lower extremities, and his
exams have been inconsistent.
So I'm like, oh, and we askedthem like one more time, one
more again, come back, comeback.
This time it's gonna bedifferent.
So listen, the last two daysI've been in his ear like a
(06:33):
coach.
Listen, Mari, this is it.
Come on.
If never you've been able to dothis before, this is it.
This is game time.
So there was an episode where,and I guess this is part of the
process because here's this37-year-old man lying in a bed
(06:53):
for five weeks.
They wonder if he was depressed,but he was refusing his
medications, right?
And he literally like held thisliquid in his mouth for 45
minutes while we, you know, andthen spit it out.
unknown (07:06):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (07:06):
And he was kind of like, with his eyes closed,
pretending to be asleep.
I'm like, this is not the dayfor this.
This is not the day.
I said, they're gonna ask you tosay something, don't nod your
head.
You gotta use your voice.
And I'm like, they're gonna askyou to push in your legs.
And let me tell you, my son.
(07:29):
And not just my son, my God,because this guy did things this
morning that I had no idea.
He couldn't believe it.
First of all, he started outfeeding himself clumsily, but he
was using his hands and feedinghimself.
And they asked him, what seasonis this?
(07:50):
Or some such thing.
They're like, there's a holidaynext week.
What holiday is it?
First of all, if you're in ahospital for over a month, how
the hell do you know whatholiday is?
SPEAKER_00 (07:58):
If you're living your life, are you you're gonna
be able to do it?
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
They say, okay, it's Turkey Day.
What days of the week isThanksgiving on?
He's like, Thursday.
Like, my God.
What?
I was in the corner like doing apraise dance.
And then they asked me if I hadlotion.
I didn't understand why, but Ithought maybe they were gonna
(08:20):
lotion his back.
So I handed them a jar of thislovely cream.
And they hand they told him totake it in his hand.
He did.
And they told him to take someand rub it on his legs.
Didn't my guy take some and rubit on his legs?
I'm like, what?
Nothing short of America.
(08:41):
Then they handed him like awashcloth and said, wipe your
face with it.
He took it and I'm like, I haveseen it all.
Oh my god.
I have seen my job here, it isdone.
So it was so impressive, I'lltell you that the team that had
(09:05):
been following him came in tosee, I gotta see it for myself.
And then I got word that he isgoing to be transferred to the
facility that I want him to betransferred to.
The acute rehab, where he getshours of therapy every day, very
intense therapy, and it's veryclose to work that I can just
(09:28):
drop in.
And I'm on staff there at thehospital.
SPEAKER_00 (09:31):
Praise God.
So can you tell them about thewhen when you were leaving the
room, what you said, and what heresponded with?
SPEAKER_01 (09:41):
It was in a different language.
There was a couple things.
Oh, oh.
I um I said to him, um, that waswhen he was getting the lumbar
puncture.
I said, um, Bueno Suerte.
And he responded back, BuenoSuerte.
And I said, what does that mean?
SPEAKER_02 (09:59):
He said, good luck.
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
I'm like, there you go, there you go.
My guy is by multilingual.
Coming back.
Multilingual.
SPEAKER_00 (10:10):
Multilingual.
What?
Yeah.
Unbelievable.
Yeah.
Listen, y'all, this is this iswhat miracles look like.
This is what y'all, this is ourreporting of the Red Sea.
SPEAKER_01 (10:25):
This is it.
And I'll tell you what, whatalso happened, then neurologist
took me in the hallway and shesays, What happened?
What happened?
She's like, because she evenasked him, what, and she said,
What happened?
I'm like, I don't have anexplanation, but I've been
praying.
Prayer works for me.
I don't know about you.
(10:46):
Right.
But she's like, what happened?
This was Yeah.
And the reason we're bringingthis to you and talking to you
about it, one, because it justhappened.
I just got word that everythingis, is, is, we're going to be
all right.
It takes a big load off mychest.
But I also wanted to say anotherthing about, I made an attempt
(11:11):
to pay his telephone bill.
And I called up his carrier.
And they said, Well, do you haveaccess to his email address?
I'm like, no, I have his phonein my hand, but I don't know
anything about it.
They like, well, we can't helpyou.
And I'm like, look, I need tospeak to a supervisor.
(11:31):
Well, they're going to tell youthe same thing.
I said, look, this is abusiness.
She said, well, we can't makeexceptions for you.
I said, this is not exception.
This is real life.
I said, people die, people haveheart attacks, people have
strokes, they becomeincapacitated.
There are legal ways to handlesuch things.
(11:53):
I said, I have his power ofattorney documents notarized
that he signed.
I am his healthcare power ofattorney and his business for
everything else.
Where do I send the legaldocuments in?
This is not an exception.
This is real life.
Tell me where I send it in.
And you're trying to give themoney.
(12:14):
And I'm trying to pay a bill.
I said, I'm not trying to getanything from his account.
I just need to pay his bill.
The most we can do is extend it14 days.
I said, unacceptable, putsomebody else on the phone.
And finally, they sent me in anemail for legal department.
I haven't heard back yet, butthe point all this that we're
(12:35):
bringing to is that here we havea young man.
This is not at prayerfully theend of his life, but people die.
People die unexpectedly.
There's we have all kinds ofdigital footprints and presents.
There are, I couldn't get intohis telephone because he's
(13:01):
incapacitated.
I don't know many of hisaccounts.
I have to look through hispapers to find out who he banks
with.
All those things.
So as I was talking to Angeabout that today, she says, wait
a minute, didn't we do an uh apodcast about this some time
ago?
So whereas I was we were goingto discuss some of the same
(13:24):
things that we figured that itwould be helpful to have in
place to ask your loved ones andthings, just in case, just to
know.
unknown (13:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
We're not gonna repeat ourselves.
We we've done this already.
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
And let me tell you, it was done well.
It was very, very well done.
Very well done.
The episode is called What YouNever Knew You Needed, uh, Death
Doula.
And it featured um uh Aluaauthor.
She wrote this book called Goingwith Grace, and she is a
(14:02):
self-described death doula.
We learned about her from theTherapy for Black Girls um
podcast.
Um and we talked about how thethe the the conversation was
around how we're preparing fordeath, and how that preparation
is not for the the the the thedying or or the person who who
(14:27):
dies.
It's for the people who are leftbehind.
Right.
And it can be a gift, it is agift.
And Leslie talked about some ofher personal experiences with
the death of people around her,and it was just so well done.
We were like, listen, this isgonna reinvent the wheel.
SPEAKER_01 (14:45):
That's what we're gonna do about.
We're not gonna do it.
And I gotta get back to thehospital.
SPEAKER_00 (14:49):
Yes, you do.
Yes, you do.
Someone's waiting on you.
Someone is waiting to get, oh mygosh, I can't.
Every time I think about it, Istill have a headache from this
morning.
Just the the the the blessingsof God.
And we, you know, you you weknow that the journey is is
(15:10):
going to be long and there aregoing to be highs and lows.
But in this moment, right now,this is the most beautiful.
We see that he's in there.
He's a lion.
He he showed up, he understood,he is translating language.
It it it it it just just just ontime, you guys don't even know
(15:34):
how long it's been since we'veseen him in this this state of
awareness and engagement.
It is a miracle, it is amiracle, period.
Yeah.
Punto.
So um enjoy the episode.
We will um we will be uhbringing you updates because um
(15:57):
this stuff is important, right?
It is, and it's not just forpeople who are dying.
SPEAKER_01 (16:02):
Yes, there are things that we need to know
about our loved ones, people wecare for, people we're in charge
of.
Things we have to step up intoresponsibilities that we need
information and exchange ofthings in order to do that,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (16:20):
You know?
Right.
Something you said in theepisode, Les, that was so fun.
You said um, you said uh the theevery the only way out of this
is dying.
Everybody's gonna die.
You can't get out of thiswithout being dead.
So this is for this is foreveryone.
There's no escaping.
There's no escaping.
(16:42):
Um so anyway, with that, enjoyour episode what you never knew
you needed a death doula.
Enjoy.
Hey Ange.
Hey Les, what's cooking?
SPEAKER_01 (16:58):
All good in this hood.
SPEAKER_00 (17:01):
All good in my new hood.
It's so good.
It's so good.
SPEAKER_01 (17:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Today's a good day.
I'm gonna jump right into ourpodcast.
So I'll start by saying, welcometo another episode of Black
Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
Brooklyn.
I feel compelled to say this isthe Invisalign edition because I
(17:28):
have my teeth in it.
I feel myself slurring already.
I don't want to take them out tospeak.
So I'm just putting it outthere.
I don't have this much of alisp.
Normally, I do have a lot ofvoices in it.
That's hilarious.
(17:48):
So I think maybe it's I'm onlyabout a month and a half in, so
okay, okay.
You know, it'll in other words,it'll be longer than they say
it, probably.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (18:02):
All right.
SPEAKER_01 (18:02):
But I see a difference.
You're on the journey.
You're on the journey.
I asked them not to close thegap in the front of my teeth,
and it looks like the gap isclosing.
People don't listen.
People don't listen to what weknow?
No, no, no.
It looks like the gap isclosing.
But I like the way it looks.
I like it.
SPEAKER_00 (18:18):
You need I'm just saying.
I need to say something, mate.
SPEAKER_01 (18:28):
I need to say something.
SPEAKER_00 (18:29):
It's a part of your heritage.
You need to say something.
You need to say something.
That is it's it's very much uh apart of your African ancestry.
So you need to say something.
SPEAKER_01 (18:39):
All right, I'll I'll look again and reevaluate that.
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Listen, this is gonna be adoozy.
SPEAKER_01 (18:49):
I know, and it is so right up my alley that people
are gonna think I'm weird.
But by the end of this episode,now they're gonna weird.
By the end of this episode,they're gonna get me.
They're gonna feel me.
SPEAKER_00 (19:06):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (19:07):
So I had occasion to listen to a podcast that it's
like, we gotta talk about this,Ange.
We gotta talk about this, Ange.
What were you gonna say?
Because I may not stop talkingonce I start.
SPEAKER_00 (19:25):
Nothing new as well.
I was going to say that I also,well, I listened to some of it,
but as soon as you sent me theemail and I read the summary,
I'm like, this is so Leslie'sthing.
And so it's um, I'm I'm lookingforward to this because number
(19:48):
one, it's so freaking important.
Number two, because we have somuch experience in this.
You in terms of doing the rightthing, me in terms of my
experiences um not having donethe right thing.
And I think it's really going tohelp people to get in gear,
including myself.
(20:10):
Because it's, you know, come on,let's go.
Come on, let's go.
SPEAKER_01 (20:16):
All right, not too many more shopping days till
Christmas.
SPEAKER_00 (20:19):
Not too many.
SPEAKER_01 (20:20):
In the words of that sage Monique.
So I listen to a podcast um andI get correspondence from them.
It's called Therapy for BlackGirls.
Yeah.
Uh, you might have introduced meto that some years ago when I
was looking for a therapist.
SPEAKER_00 (20:39):
Um I thank you for giving me um my props for that
because I am indeed the one whoconnects.
SPEAKER_01 (20:48):
And it's not just for black girls, it's it's not
for dudes as well.
But anyway, um so it's run by uma psychiatrist in Atlanta, Dr.
Joy Hardin Bradford.
And I listened to her mostrecent podcast episode, and a
(21:09):
light went off.
She was featuring a lady thattitles herself a death dueler.
Amazing.
You're like, what?
Now, first of all, I'm familiarwith labor and delivery doolers
that support um people in andaround their pregnancies and
(21:34):
deliveries, but I've never heardof the term a death dueler.
In fact, I kind of bristled atthe term initially.
Because more on that later.
I think it has a connotation ofum morbidity for sure, mortality
(21:55):
for certain, death.
Okay, and I like so many peoplewhen I hear the word death, it
just sets up a wholeconstellation of ideas.
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
Okay.
So let me just bristle at itbecause you you have experience
with um with doulas, and and weum generally understand doulas
to be people who support newlife, and so you bristled at the
(22:29):
idea of uh how can end of life.
What the heck?
Yeah, it it wasn't, but itwasn't that.
SPEAKER_01 (22:35):
It was it wasn't that.
I I think in my humanness and asa normal person, I also feel
some kind of way when I thinkabout death and end of life.
So, in that regard, but I justwant to talk a little bit about
my experiences with deathpersonally.
I have mentioned probably manytimes that I grew up in a house
(22:59):
with five generations um in onehome.
So I was fortunate and blessedto grow up with
great-grandparents.
Um, well into my mid-20s, um, Ibelieve my grandmother, my
great-grandmother um died.
I'll use the word, I start tosay pass away.
Died, um, I was 26 at the time.
(23:22):
Uh, Nana Margaret um lived inour home.
We cared for her, and I was ableto witness the end of many of my
relatives' life.
And then when I went to medicalschool, I um had the occasion to
see patients at the end of theirlives and interact with their
(23:46):
families, and I felt a certainum kinship and connection to
them, unusually so for a medicalstudent.
Um and I wondered what that was,and I remember two particular
incidents where one was a veryyoung man who died in a car
(24:10):
accident.
He must have been 19, I've toldyou about that story.
And an um another was an olderperson, but I forced myself to
stay in the patient's room andthe family's room after they
died.
And I remember forcing myself tostay silent and let them process
(24:32):
it and grieve in that way.
And I was proud of myself.
I remembered how difficult itwas not to say anything or try
to console them immediately oroffer a medical explanation, but
to let them lead the session.
That was impactful for me.
(24:53):
Um, well, one when these thingshappen, the physicians often
leave because of the finality ofit all.
They may pronounce the patientand express their, you know, I'm
sorry for your loss.
SPEAKER_02 (25:08):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:09):
And and then they leave because quite honestly, we
have other things to do, or wemay have paperwork to do or
whatever.
And in the case of the19-year-old young man, um, my
son, I don't think was that oldat the time, but you know, I
connected you know, with them asa parent.
I knew what it must feel like tolose your child.
(25:32):
I who would know that in thatvery same hospital, I would
almost have that very sameexperience in the emergency
room, almost losing my childafter Omari had his car
accident.
Same exact hospital, same exactER, same physician staff.
But anyway, um, but I made thatconnection, and then I felt that
(25:54):
as a medical student, we oftenhave the jobs of doing things
that the physicians, you know,don't do.
And I didn't want to leave theparents in the room by
themselves.
So I stayed in there.
SPEAKER_00 (26:11):
Wow.
Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_01 (26:16):
Anyway, man, it could just take me right back
there.
So anyway, that experiencereally throughout the rest of my
uh medical school career andthroughout residency, I really
became particularly interestedin um the eth the medical ethics
(26:41):
around a patient at the end oftheir life.
Um how to support best supportfamilies at that time.
And then what I termed a gooddeath.
So I um volunteered to be oncommittees while I was in
(27:05):
medical school and residency andum take more courses and read
more about it and things likethat.
So that's my history um with umwith my interest in it.
So now um fast forward a couplemore years, um my father
(27:27):
recently died two years ago, andit has been my role over the
years with all of my familymembers and friends, and we've
talked about this with thepodcast, that I talk to people
about what end-of-life planninglooks like.
SPEAKER_02 (27:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:47):
And we even had our friend Carl Chen, the estate
planning attorney, um, do twoepisodes on our podcast
previously.
We'll we can link them um sopeople can remember, but um the
legal part of it and thelegacies that you can leave for
your families and wills andadvanced directives, what would
(28:11):
you want to happen um on yourlast days or when you cannot no
longer make decisions foryourself?
So I had not realized howimpactful my conversations with
my father over the years hadbeen because when he passed,
well, he became um cognitivelyimpaired from a stroke first, so
(28:34):
was unable to make decisions forhimself several years before he
died.
SPEAKER_02 (28:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (28:39):
I didn't even know, but I re uh received a packet in
the mail from an estate planningattorney's office that dad had
made me power of attorney,completed his will, did all
these things.
I gotta tell you, as difficultas it could have been, his
(29:00):
passing and death and planninghis estate was perfectly
planned.
Wow.
It made my and my brother andsister's lives so much easier.
Him having put those things inplace.
Yeah.
And I'm like, yes, okay.
(29:22):
I gotta tell everybody whatsuccess in this arena looks
like, right?
So, you know, I talk about thata lot.
We had to call on because it'simportant and stuff.
Most of us do not have thesethings in place.
SPEAKER_02 (29:35):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (29:36):
Um, the first thing that I hear most commonly when I
speak about it, even with myhusband, you know, I'm like, are
you sure you have this orwhatever?
You know, do you have let's talkabout he'll say, It's Sunday.
Why do you want to talk aboutthat?
Or I don't want to talk aboutthis right now.
Can we do this another time?
(29:58):
And then I become a nag.
And it seems like I'm notwaiting for him to die.
But it's a similar conversationI have with my mother.
What I think about is that atthe end of a person's life, when
family is surrounded andgathering and grief, the last
(30:18):
thing we want to do is look forpaperwork, is clear out a home,
is sort through importantpapers, looking for things that
you can't find, and trying tosettle financial matters and
things like that.
I think taking care of thesethings ahead of time is a gift
(30:42):
that you give to your lovedones.
SPEAKER_00 (30:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I um so many things, so manythings that um came to mind.
I remember it was way before umyour father died.
Um way before.
I think maybe you were still inmedical school or shortly after,
(31:10):
where you told me the role thatI was gonna have.
You sent me all the paperwork.
I know exactly where it is.
Um I mean, it was tied with abow.
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
I made you my healthcare proxy, uh, you and my
sister.
And remember that Ernest had bigproblems with that.
He's a physician, he's myhusband, etc.
But the thing that I realizedearly on with Ernest is that he
and I think differently about,you know, um what to do when
(31:49):
your heart stops or, you know,cold status and different ruby
and different things, differentthings like that.
And people don't realize myhusband loves me.
I know that.
But when I say I don't want anyextraordinary, I don't want to
be on a ventilator on machines,I know that he would not be able
(32:10):
to honor my wishes.
And people don't realize thatwhen you are in that role as a
proxy, you are the voice of theperson.
It is not your own voice.
So I learned I knew early onthat Ernest would not, in his
own consciousness, be able to uhrespect the wishes that I would
(32:33):
want for myself.
And that's why I named peopleother than him.
But he was upset about it.
You know, it it was created arift.
Whereas he would want to be on aventilator or let's say, or
artificial um support until hecrumbled in the hospital bed,
until he touched him and he wasdesiccated and he would be
(33:01):
ashes, he would be ashes toashes before while the machine
is still beeping.
And I did tell him that ifthat's what you want, my dear, I
could do that for you.
Right, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (33:14):
So yeah.
So oh my gosh.
Um I so I listened to thepodcast as well, and so many
things.
Right.
We didn't even get into the thatthat content as yet.
Well, it's it's kind of like oneof the reasons why I'm like,
(33:37):
Les, we have to we have to do arecording on this because um I
know that you had someparticular experiences um and
mine were quite different.
I don't have all of these thingsdone.
(33:58):
Um I saw the experience.
Um my father, he had pretty muchdisconnected from a lot of our
societal um norms in terms ofkeeping track of all of that
stuff long ago.
So um, but my mother um I Ithink it maybe it was just
(34:26):
because of um uh growing up, notin a place or um where there
were societal norms aroundplanning for death, you know,
Cuba, Jamaica, and then cominghere.
My mother was a very practicalperson.
She took care of things, um uh,you know, always kind of had
(34:49):
money set aside if we needed totake a trip to Jamaica,
especially while my grandparentswere alive, because you know, at
any point when they got sick, wewould all go.
Um, so she was very practical interms of those things.
But I think there were just somethings that she just didn't
know.
And then when she went intocognitive decline with um
(35:09):
dementia, um uh my sister didput some things in place, um,
and we needed to put some thingsin place because eventually um
she went into a um um uh a home,a care facility.
And so we needed to have thosethings in order to advocate for
(35:30):
her.
But up up un to this day, mymother has money in a bank
account that I have not beenable to get access to.
Um she wasn't kind of an onlineperson, you know.
Um that I think she died beforeit really got, you know, that
(35:52):
that was kind of the way oflife.
Um but I know that there's somuch that I need to do for my
children.
Um, some years ago, if youremember, I had um a head talk.
Um, I I used to have thesecourageous conversations in my
home.
Head was um an acronym.
(36:15):
Um uh highlighting and embracingum highlight, embrace and
something diversity um was theacronym for head talks.
Um anyway, and I had someonecome in to talk who lit who
worked in a um healthcarefacility to talk about um death
(36:37):
and dying.
And what really struck me isthat you do these things not for
you.
You're gone, you've died, youare it wherever your faith is is
gonna take you, that's where youare.
And your family is left withwhat's what's left of you, your
(37:02):
family, including your body, butalso all of your history is left
with your family.
Um for me, it would be young up,you know, adult children, but
you know, still in their 20s.
Um and it's for them.
It's for them, and it's a matterof prioritizing.
(37:25):
But I really need help to getover.
I've done things up to a point,and then I allowed something to
stop me.
Right.
When they were younger, it wasbecause, oh, I didn't know how I
was gonna handle um Isaiahbecause he was um he's five
years younger than um my middleson.
And I got stuck in thinkingabout how their father, who's
(37:48):
not really involved in theirlives, how I would manage their
father's um involvement if Idied when he was a minor.
And so things like that alongthe way just have kind of
crippled me in terms of takingaction.
I mean, I've cataloged things,I've I got a book where I listed
everything out.
(38:09):
You know, where'd you get thebook?
I I haven't Leslie, because thisis who she is.
I distributed them to all mybuds.
Yes, and I, you know, inpacking, I came across it again.
I'm like, oh my god, I gottaupdate this.
Me too, my own.
It's been so long.
Um, so anyway, we both we've hadvery different experiences um
(38:33):
with this these systems that wehave to put in place.
And so when I listen to thepodcast about a deaf doula, I'm
like, what a blessing she is tothose families who bring her on
board.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (38:49):
So now I'll bring up the fact that I love the fact
that she used the word death,not end-of-life doula, not your
final doula.
I think we need to destigmatizethat word.
SPEAKER_00 (39:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:04):
I think the more that we use it, the better, the
less it will sting, the less itwe will bristle about it.
It would be like it.
I would love it to become anyother word.
Because what she does, she notonly supports who is she?
Well, yes, I was gonna say Whois she?
(39:25):
A Lua author.
Her first name is A L-U-A.
She is the founder of a companyuh called Going with Grace, and
she recently um published amemoir called Briefly Perfect
Human.
(39:46):
She has training as an attorney,and she had um an encounter with
a woman who was um terminallyill, and in their conversations,
she came back um from the tripand determined that her life was
(40:08):
not the way that she wanted itto be, and really started
thinking about forming this umbusiness that she now runs and
the need for it.
SPEAKER_00 (40:20):
Um it's can I say one thing, Les?
Yeah, I'll forget so one thingthat really hit me as I was
listening to her journey ingetting here is um so she
(40:44):
mentioned that one of thereasons why she left the legal
profession is because she um hadpretty severe depression and she
she she left and went on thisjourney to Cuba, and that's
where she met this this person.
Yeah.
(41:05):
And at some point she talkedabout the fact that getting
involved in this this death workand helping people through and
getting to having a sense of umof uh almost um respect for for
(41:26):
death and and the person who iswho is in the process of dying.
It addressed it it helped herwith her depression.
She she she said that she willalways have it.
It's not like it went away.
And so it made me start thinkingabout joy in the midst of, and
(41:49):
you know, when I talk about joy,it is not we're not talking
about happy.
That is not what I mean when Italk about joy.
Yeah, I talk about fulfillmentand satisfaction and and and
deep-seated, it's much moredeep-seated, right?
And I really thought about man,how much more joy would we have
(42:12):
knowing that these things are inplace for our likelines when we
go?
SPEAKER_01 (42:19):
This could be a real source of joy and yeah, it does
not have to be a morbid darkthought that I she doesn't work
only with people who are at theend of their life at an end
stage.
It's a continuum of support andwhat things do you need to get
(42:40):
in place.
I remember I recently printedout what um Facebook, not
Facebook, Apple, calls theirlegacy key.
It's like a 35-digit um passwordper se, right, so that a loved
(43:01):
one or another person can accessyour Apple ID.
There's a whole lot ofinformation that could be lost
when you pass away and peopledon't know your passwords or
this or that.
Who could I don't even know mypassword.
SPEAKER_02 (43:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (43:17):
Let alone someone else.
So it's these types of thingsthat in her work, Miss Arthur um
has put together this companythat can navigate and steer
people, even to consider thethings that you need to
consider.
Do they have a digital onlinepresence?
What about all of theirfinancial accounts and insurance
(43:42):
policies?
Um, are there any other legalthings that need to be taken
care of to be put in place tomake a transition easy?
She even mentioned that um whenher brother-in-law died, he they
wanted to give his car to theirnephew.
And they ran into so manyobstacles just to transfer a
(44:04):
title.
Yeah.
You know, because it had to gointo the estate first and then
sit and probate or this or that.
And I was remembering how easyit was for me to give my
father's car away, although Iremembered that I gave I donated
his car to Cars for Kids orsomething like that before he
passed.
So that's why I bypassed thestep of including it in his
(44:28):
estate.
But um, there are so many thingsthat you don't even need to
think about because someone elsehas done that.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
So it's it's not, I don't lookat it as death planning per se,
but it's life planning andhelping with decision making for
(44:50):
things that we don't need tothink about.
Because you'll miss something.
But there are so many differentsteps.
Like I said to my mom, I'veasked her at least in the last
10 years, can you start paringdown your clothing, your
artwork, your tchotchkis, yourthings, start, you know, letting
(45:12):
people know, giving awaypictures now.
And, you know, because when shepasses, if she passes before me,
I will not go through pocketslooking for things of value and
drawers.
There's 50 years of being in ourfamily home of four full floor,
(45:32):
four floors.
Say that five times with a lineis in your mouth, with four
floors.
And I could, my siblings and I,we could never go through
everything.
It's really gonna be bundled upand discarded or given away in
mass.
We have no idea what could belost.
Right.
You know, right.
(45:54):
And and the time to think aboutit is when you have the energy
and you're free from illness,you know, time for us to think
about me is now, you is now,except, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (46:06):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (46:08):
But someone like Alua Arthur with her company
could be very instrumental insupporting decision making and
families.
And she says she um she workswith often whole people, you
know, the whole family members,you know, or individuals that
(46:29):
want to give this what I callthe ultimate gift to their loved
ones.
SPEAKER_00 (46:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (46:34):
So interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (46:35):
Yeah, she described um having a group of maybe 16
people in a family all fillingout the paperwork and all.
I mean, that's how about thatfor a family vacation?
That would be, you know what Imean?
SPEAKER_01 (46:48):
I could envision because you imagine what the
flyer looks like a keynotespeaker for our family reunion,
Death Doula.
People will like, what the hell?
Lizzie done gone mad.
What is the flyer?
Did you see what?
I don't think I'm doing.
SPEAKER_00 (47:09):
You know, maybe a lot of what gets in the way for
people too.
Um, I'm wondering if this is thecase for me.
No, this is not my issue, but itgets them to realize that um
there is finality.
And so the things that they'reignoring, like how how they're
eating and whether they'reexercising, it it forces them to
(47:30):
actually take stock of that.
Start thinking about mortality.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (47:37):
But yeah, but nobody leaves this earth without dying.
We ain't gonna get away.
We're not gonna escape it.
So, how about we go on our ownterms rather than the state's
terms or your family's terms whomay not um either know or be in
agreement with your finalwishes?
(47:59):
I've had a lot of um family lossrecently.
I lost a young cousin, um 28 ornine years old, uh, a couple
weeks ago, and he had a umprotracted illness, but toward
um the last month or so, towardthe last month or so of his
(48:24):
life, he didn't want anyvisitors.
He seemed like he was depressed,and his grandmother, um, my
aunt, uh, you know, wanted tocontinue treatment and all, and
I did remind her that um we haveto honor what it is that he
(48:47):
wants for himself, not what wewould want, because we would
want to hold them close and keepthem forever.
Um yeah, I I had thatconversation with her, a painful
one, you know.
And then more recently, about aweek and a half ago, I lost a um
(49:07):
a dear cousin who was a uhphysician, uh, another physician
in the family, and she was uhJehovah's Witness.
Her sisters um respected thefact that she did not want any
funeral or any kind of publicservice with her passing, and
(49:28):
that we may do some type of lifecelebration um at a later time
for her, for um Pinky.
Um her sister did say that umshe was somewhat of a hoarder
and collected a lot of stuff.
There were patient charts andpatients calling, trying to make
appointments still.
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02 (49:48):
Oof.
SPEAKER_01 (49:49):
Um that her sisters, not physicians, had to deal with
and close up the office andthings like that.
And I haven't checked in in awhile, but I can only imagine in
your grieving having to takecare of a checklist of tasks.
SPEAKER_00 (50:09):
Right.
Right.
You know?
Right, yeah, yeah.
So, okay, Les.
Oof.
Gotta do it.
I know, I know.
SPEAKER_01 (50:20):
And this is not to be a depressing conversation.
It's not a good thing.
No, it doesn't have to be.
It's it gets depressing when ifI'm end stage and on my
deathbed, that's when thedepression, you know, might
start.
But if I'm talking to you now,hey, we could talk about it over
a martini.
SPEAKER_00 (50:37):
But for me, it's not a depressing thing.
To me, this this personally,this is not depressing.
This is not a depressing topic.
What gets in my way is theactual um is the actual taking,
taking action.
Okay, I gotta get this stufftogether.
Okay, I have to hire this personor I have to.
(51:00):
It's really carving out thetime.
It's almost like carving out thetime to to liquidate.
SPEAKER_01 (51:06):
I was I was thinking the same thing because there's
so many so many things in thisregard that I need to do myself,
an update and this and that,which I haven't done.
I've I've acquired, I think, twoconvertibles since I've last
done my two convertibles in ahouse.
It's like that are not gonnaturn to I'm gonna take them uh a
(51:28):
little piece of uh a pen andjust like jot it down, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (51:33):
Oh, and another thing.
Oh, and another thing.
So Les, before we go, um, youhad mentioned um I can't
remember what the context was,but how talking to people and
letting them know what yourwishes are, that that's yeah,
and you know, you know I'm thatguy.
SPEAKER_01 (51:53):
So even if even if you don't put things in writing,
which is the ideal way andnotarize and part of your estate
plan, but and the legal way.
If you and right, but even ifyou talk to your family members
and let them know what it isthat you want, she's always said
that she doesn't want to beburied, she wants to be
(52:15):
cremated.
Even if that's not in your uhwritten down, you know, your
family members at least can knowthat in the absence of
paperwork, what if they can'tfind your paperwork?
You know, they know that listen,if they put your behind in the
ground, it ain't what you want.
They can do that if they want.
Sleepless nights and beinghaunted, but haunted.
(52:48):
What is that knocking?
You know, do that at your peril.
So, yeah, by talking about it,the other thing that talking
about it, it kind of like it umnumbs the the, you know, it
neutralizes things, it kind ofnumbs the sting a little bit.
(53:10):
Oh, she's always talking aboutthat.
Let's normalize these types ofthings because it is normal to
leave this for earth and death.
unknown (53:18):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (53:18):
We gotta know that.
We gotta know that.
SPEAKER_00 (53:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (53:22):
You know, even Moses didn't live forever.
How long how long did um youknow, like these folks?
He didn't even get to thepromised land.
He was like, You guys keepgoing, keep going, go on without
me.
You know.
SPEAKER_00 (53:41):
Oh my gosh, yeah.
Okay, yes, ma'am.
Yes, um.
SPEAKER_01 (53:49):
That is my story for today.
So, you know, I guess we allhave our marching orders.
And you know what?
Let's hold each otheraccountable.
You all hold your loved onesaccountable.
Has it been done?
Did you do it?
Maybe you can buy them a book orsomething to write, write things
in, you know, when circumstanceschange, update it.
But it's more than that.
You know, you and I talked aboutthat um there's some kind of um
(54:14):
composting.
I know it sounds so weird.
I told Ernest this and he kindof looked at me like, well, what
the hell is my wife talkingabout now?
You can compost your body.
It is a service.
We'll put that in.
Uh I wrote it down.
Uh, not many people do it thesedays, but it is some type of
(54:35):
ceremony where you are put backinto the earth from whence you
came.
SPEAKER_00 (54:41):
Um, it's it's uh it's a pod, it's a composting.
Is that what you mean?
SPEAKER_01 (54:48):
Yeah, yeah.
Your body is wrapped in organicmaterial, and you are put in a
place where you naturallydecompose and a beautiful tree
blossoms on top of you, and thisthat's what I want.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (55:02):
It's expensive and it's a process, but I don't know
what the other expensive is.
So is that wooden box?
Exactly.
It is exactly in comparison.
I I I don't think it would be itwould be an issue.
Yeah.
Yeah.
unknown (55:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (55:18):
Let's put money aside for that.
I think on one of our vacations,Les, we met me to set aside time
and go look at the compost.
SPEAKER_01 (55:28):
My body's gonna be right in there.
SPEAKER_00 (55:30):
No, no, no.
I'm gonna choose which tree Iwant to be.
Okay.
No, but just to just to getthat, um, get me started on
this.
I tried to do it once before,but then we just were having so
good a time.
But I know, but I really want todo it over to some of the basic,
some of the basic okay.
(55:52):
Some of the basic things.
And just yeah, yeah.
All right, okay.
Well, I'm with you.
SPEAKER_01 (55:59):
Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn is produced by
Angela Fraser.
Our editing team is from MattDershowitz, and our marketing
social media team is by CoutureCopywriting.
So this has been another episodeof Black Boomer Besties from
(56:21):
Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_02 (56:22):
Brooklyn!
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