February 25, 2025 • 56 mins
Love and compassion guide the conversation as Besties Leslie and Angella explore mental well-being with Dr. Rebecca Eldridge. Dr. Eldridge emphasizes that joy is not just a luxury but a critical component of well-being, especially in a time when many feel the emotional weight of societal issues.
This week’s discussion focuses on how to maintain emotional health amid political and social chaos, while emphasizing practical tools and mindfulness techniques.
• Importance of intentional news consumption
• Effects of societal pressures on mental health
• Privilege and its role in personal responsibility
• Navigating emotional turmoil through understanding
• Workshops designed for resilience and community support
• The central role of joy in achieving overall well-being
Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Hey, luz, how you doing, doing great, doing well.
Good, it's Valentine's Day.
We're really happy because loveis in the air, yeah, and
because it is an episode whereone of my favorite new people
(00:25):
new favorite people in my lifeis here with us.
I'm going to say Dr RebeccaEldridge.
Okay, rebecca is with us andreally excited about her work,
sharing it with you.
We love to share joy andRebecca is someone who does some
(00:46):
incredible work.
We'll talk about that in alittle bit, but before we go
into that, let us introduceourselves.
Welcome to another episode ofBlack Boomer Besties from
Brooklyn.
I'm Angela, and that is my bestfriend of almost 50 years,
leslie.
We are two intellectuallycurious older black women.
(01:07):
We like to dig down.
We're not surfacy people.
We like to dig deep on issues.
We like to push against normsand disrupt systems and ways of
thinking that deserve to bedisrupted, and we're going to be
doing that today also.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
And Ange for Valentine's Day.
I want to say I heart you, ohboy, and as one of my besties,
and the bestie for almost 50years, happy Valentine's Day,
love.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Thank you, sweetie pie.
Happy Valentine's Day.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Happy Valentine's Day to everyone in our listening
audience.
Rebecca's wearing red today.
We're really, she's ready,she's ready.
And so let me start with how wemet.
Rebecca and I met about a yearago.
Has it been a year, rebecca?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
It has, yeah a little over a year, january.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
In Puerto Rico we went for a conference, the ROI
conference.
Rachel Rogers has a yearlyconference called ROI.
We met there.
We were actually roommates in abig Airbnb and we just
energetically connected and sowe had long talks late at night
(02:36):
on walks and I know you guys canunderstand when I talk about
energy.
For me it's kind of the waythat questions and answers play
back and forth between twopeople sometimes really shows
energy, because we were able totalk about some things that I
(02:59):
think other people who may nothave had this connection would
have felt really uncomfortableObviously Rebecca's a white
woman.
Obviously I'm a Black woman andI'm going to read a little bit
about her work so that you kindof understand how deep some of
these conversations may havebeen.
So for two decades licensedpsychologist, dr Rebecca
(03:23):
Eldridge has focused onintegrating multicultural issues
into her work with clients,higher ed systems, organizations
and refugees.
As a therapist, speaker, coachand facilitator, she applies her
mental health expertise andpassion for social justice in
service of those who give somuch of themselves to others.
(03:45):
Let me read that again.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, read that again .
Speaker 2 (04:08):
She looks out for the people who look out for others.
In other words, rebeccaincorporates neuroscience and
somatic approaches into how wetake care of ourselves and each
other, engage with difficultconversations and improve
relationships and systems to bespaces of inclusion, belonging
and safety for all people.
I'm going to stop there,because the rest just lists all
(04:31):
of her education and incredibleacademic accolades.
But we're going to stop there,because this is why we connected
and why we were able to havesuch deep conversations.
So with that, I'm going to openup to Rebecca.
(04:52):
Dear Rebecca, welcome.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Thank you so much.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So, rebecca also, I think we both have these ways of
knowing one the other as a needand just kind of, hey, how's it
going?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Thinking about you everything good.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
So we've been doing that reached out because she has
been.
She's created these workshops,these free workshops, every
Wednesday at 12 o'clock.
We'll put the links to this.
Hopefully you'll be able tocatch one or two of them by the
(05:34):
time this airs.
And, rebecca, can you tell usabout these workshops and why
you felt compelled to do themnow?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yes, yes, sure.
Well, the simplest answer isbecause of the conversations
that I was having with people myclients, my friends, my family,
people in my network over thepast three weeks-ish in
particular.
I've been doing a lot ofchecking in with people and I
(06:08):
was hearing a lot of the samechallenges over and over again,
especially people feeling reallydysregulated, really
overwhelmed, reallyincapacitated by the news and by
taking in information, seeingwhat's happening locally,
nationally, internationally, andhearing people really struggle
(06:32):
with the tension between wantingto be informed and engaged and
feeling like doing so reallyjust took them completely out of
commission at times.
Like you know, not being ableto function with taking in a lot
of what was happening.
(06:52):
Very familiar, pervasive thatchallenge was.
I found myself kind of gettingto some of the same points with
people, them finding thosehelpful and then some friends
eventually said you need to putthis into a workshop.
(07:15):
So you know, just really lookingat, okay, this is what people
are needing right now and how doI make it available to as many
people as possible and how do Imake it available to as many?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
people as possible.
So I attended the workshop thispast Wednesday and highly
recommend it.
I'll tell you a particularthing that was helpful for me
and I've been doing it, andactually, not only have I been
(07:56):
doing it, but I also have sharedthis with my siblings.
We had a sibling call yesterdayand I shared it with them
because, yes, this is a realthing.
What Rebecca suggested that wedo.
One of the things is to bereally clear about why you're
consuming the news.
Pick a thing For me it'straveling abroad and how the
(08:23):
changes that are going on willaffect that and consume the news
that is related to that,something that helps you to be
in action, to be planning, to benot distracted but moving
towards a goal that you have,versus being all over here and
(08:45):
bombarded.
It becomes this resource,versus something that causes a
lot of distraction and distressand depression.
And so, rebecca, that was myone major takeaway from the
workshop, which started withmeditation, which was beautiful,
(09:06):
and so I want to thank you forthat, and I describe it because
I want people to understand thatthese workshops, they give you
actual tools.
I think you actually call it.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
What's the name of the workshop you call it tools
right tailored tools for thesetimes, and really because what
people were using before is notworking for them now, and I
think that's really been anadditional source of distress.
It's like you know I do thesethings.
How come I'm still feeling sobad, like it's not like people
(09:44):
didn't have coping strategiesbefore that they were using.
It's not like people haven'tbeen through stressful times in
the past, you know, and so it'slike, but in these times people
are needing to do some tinkeringwith the tools that they have
and sometimes expand, sometimesjust modify a little bit to
figure out.
(10:05):
This is a new moment in yourlife, in history Like this
moment has never happened inexactly this way, and so really
looking at specific tools orways you can use tools that are
different now than they werebefore, yeah, yeah than they
were before.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, yeah, I'm really grateful for it.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I think it's kind of interesting that you bring up
using tools or coming up withsome type of strategy.
I just had a conversation witha family member just yesterday
and she was explaining to methat she has a lot of anxiety
looking at television these daysand she says you know, what
(10:48):
Trump is doing is reallyfrightening me and I may need to
take my money out of the bankand you know, and what am I
going to do with it if they takeit, all of these federal
changes?
You know, and she was reallyexpressing this anxiety and what
I offered was that I said maybeyou can change the way that you
look and take in thatinformation.
(11:10):
I mean, instead of watchingtelevision or the same shows
every day, maybe you can look atit every other day or once a
week or something like that, youknow.
So it is gonna it seems likeit's going to require us to
change normal habits that arecomfortable for us and have
(11:31):
worked for us in the past.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Exactly exactly, and she's certainly not alone with
the anxiety and so much of newsanywhere in this media
environment where information isso overstimulating you know
it's coming so fast and furious,one thing on top of another.
You're just processing the lastthing and three more things
(11:54):
have still come on top of itbefore you've even finished with
one and so, leslie, your pointis exactly right like to really
consider what are the sources.
You know, for some people, forexample, the visual is more
distressing.
So reading it or listening toit, versus seeing the images on
(12:14):
a screen.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Noticing.
This is what I'm wanting to getout of it.
As Angela said, this is mypurpose for consuming this
information or this news, andwhat are the sources that are
going to best serve that purpose?
So, in chaos and swirl and inthe vortex of everything that's
going on, and also not puttingyour media the every day, every
hour news cycle and I, as aresult of just not wanting to
bring in so much informationinto my space, I've been missing
listening to my typical newssources or watching television
or the talk shows that I've been, you know, used to listening to
.
I kind of feel like my head isin the sand a little bit Like.
(13:37):
I haven't heard what's going onwith the Oscars or this or that,
because I'm kind of shutting itdown and I'm not really sure
how to get back into it.
But on a smaller scale, Couldwe?
Put my toe back into the water.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Mm-hmm.
So, on Rebecca's workshop, sheasked a question and it made me
think about my privilege, right,and I thought about that, les,
because, les, because you know,certain of us we have, um, I
(14:08):
think it is privileged to not beum listening to certain things,
right, because it's notaffecting us or it's it's, it's
some, oh, you know, it's someways away from us.
We're not feeling the directimpact of it.
I was watching Mo.
It's a series, a Palestiniancomedian, and they just released
(14:35):
a new season and I really Imean it's just a really well
done show and one of my favoriteperforming artists, Tobin Wigwe
, is on it and anyway.
So his mother in the show wasconstantly looking at the news
(14:58):
and this was before.
It must have been filmed beforethe kind of more intense
attacks in Gaza and she justcouldn't help it because her
family was there and she, youknow, everywhere she went, she
was on her phone.
This is an older woman and shewas constantly on her phone and
(15:29):
that comes to mind right nowbecause things were directly
affecting her and she didn'tfeel like she had the liberty or
the, the um, the she.
She felt like she had aresponsibility to consume the
news, because to do otherwisewas to be ignoring those people
that she loved or cared about,and so, in that way, is the way
that I'm talking about privilegein this moment that, rebecca,
(15:49):
maybe you can speak to some ofthat, because that's where my
guilt is coming up too.
Is that okay?
I can choose what to listen to,because I'm a little bit
removed from it at this pointanyway.
So, have you heard that type ofsentiment expressed by your
clients, or what might you?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
say about that?
Yes, and I can relate toholding privilege in a number of
my identities, including as awhite person as well, and then
making intentional choicesaround that, and then making
intentional choices around that.
So you know for a lot of people.
That's why I start early onwith what are your intentions.
(16:32):
A lot of people say I want tobe informed, but informed for
what, Like informed why?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Why is it?
Speaker 3 (16:42):
important to you to be informed.
Do you just want to feel like,oh, I know everything that's
going on?
For most people, that's not theend goal.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
It's not just to be a know-it-all for most people.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
maybe for a few, but you know, for most people
there's something beyond that.
I want to be informed so that Iknow what to say if ICE does a
raid in my neighborhood.
I know what my rights are.
I know what my neighbor'srights are.
Or I want to be informed sothat I can call my
(17:14):
representatives and voice myopinion.
I want to be informed, you know.
one of the things for me is Iwant to be informed so that I
know how to show up for myclients so that, even if it's
not my personal experience,they're not having to educate me
over and over and over again onwhat they're facing, what
they're wanting to know and whythey're wanting to know it then
(17:36):
the choices change around thatand then, even though, for
example, I still have theprivilege and I don't look you
know I'm not scanning the newsstories every hour because that
(18:00):
would be a disservice to mygoals I would be less capable of
showing up for people and beingpresent and being responsive
and taking action if I'mconstantly sending myself into
overwhelm?
And so I think you can use theprivilege and you can also turn
the privilege around and say Ido have this privilege and
(18:20):
because I have this privilege, Iwant to use it really
intentionally.
Privilege and because I havethis privilege.
I want to use it reallyintentionally.
So for me the privilege isintegrated into what is my
purpose for consuming news howam I going to use that news and
my privilege to go out and makea difference, to be there for my
clients, to show up in mycommunity and advocate for the
(18:44):
changes that I want to see?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Wow, that's pretty powerful.
And by being selective.
In that way you feel moreempowered and not just a voyeur
looking in.
You know when you want to getthe latest, you know
sensationalism, or to talk tosomeone about it on social media
or whatever.
Yeah yeah, way more intentional.
(19:08):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Another thing that I got really clear about as a
result of your workshop is to beselective around the source of
the news that I'm getting right.
So, who are some people in thepolitical realm that I trust,
(19:34):
Stacey Abrams, for example right.
Who are some of the podcaststhat I trust, Karen Hunter, for
example.
Right, and just to bedeliberate, because I do?
I think because there's been alot of intentionality, including
self-care, in how I've beenconsuming what has been
(20:01):
unfolding.
It has allowed me to be able tonow, okay, I can kind of, I can
kind of see what's going on.
I do want to get involved.
How, and so it's not by all ofthis, because that will be like
depleting me.
Who are the people that I canlisten to and take action based
(20:21):
on what they're saying?
Right, and just block the?
Speaker 3 (20:27):
other stuff out.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And so just being really really clear about doing
that and moving into action issomething else that I want to
thank you for, because it youknow, the workshop, I can kind
of workshop, workshop.
The workshop, I can kind ofworkshop, workshop, workshop.
Let me just say it was a gift.
I focused on something that wasreally meaningful for an hour,
(20:55):
something that soothed me,something that informed me, and
that is why I asked Rebecca tocome on to our podcast, because
we are joy sharers.
We, you know, if we experiencesomething that is positive and
(21:16):
progressive and moves us forwardand clears the path for us, we
bring it here, and so that's whywe're having this conversation,
that's why Rebecca's here.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
I appreciate that.
I do appreciate that and I feellike that's, you know, my
mission is maybe correlates withthat, because I feel like one
of the most important thingsthat my soapbox is again and
again is about well-being.
And joy is such a part ofwell-being, you know.
(21:52):
in fact, I think you can'treally claim to have well-being
if you're not having joy, as apart of that, and yet you know,
it's something that people oftencompromise on or try to cut
corners around, and it's themost important thing if you're
wanting to continue to live.
(22:14):
Live like, not just survive,but live, thrive, be
wholehearted in yourrelationships.
Be engaged in the world.
Be wholehearted in yourrelationships.
Be engaged in the world.
Most people have some way thatthey want to be remembered or
(22:34):
some legacy that they want toleave behind.
Right, and if you're runningyourself into the ground because
you're expending so much energytowards others that you're not
taking care of yourself, thenyou're depleting what actually
could be a renewable resource.
You know?
Your well-being can be arenewable resource, but you have
to tend to it.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Rebecca, you said a word.
Wow, yeah, you know this personimmediately comes to mind.
I won't call her name, but ifshe's listening she's going to
know.
I have a friend who is anentrepreneur and a parent,
(23:14):
grandparent, no-transcript tobuild her business, to grow her
(23:36):
business.
She's very community-minded andI don't think she knows how to
see the world through seeingherself as a renewable resource
versus a resource that I'm goingto just expend it all for those
around me, and I'll think ofmyself after.
(23:58):
What would you say to someonelike her, who feels really
committed to legacy, to thedetriment of her own health and
well-being and joy.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Well, she's certainly not alone in that, because I
would say that's a hugepercentage of the change makers
and leaders that I work with arein that boat where they care so
deeply for, for their family,for their friends right, where
they're expending so much energy, whether for their own business
(24:38):
or for the organization thatthey work for.
And you said, angela, you saidit, you're like I'll take care
of myself later.
You know, something along thoselines Like once I, once I take
care of everybody else, once Ifix everything.
Whatever's left, those are thescraps that I'll live off of you
(25:00):
know that those will be themoments that I'll, you know,
close my eyes and take a breathand the oxygen mask example gets
overused.
I recognize it's overused.
I'm going to overuse it againwith a question of you know, we
(25:21):
talk about it like it's so easyto think about.
Well, yes, of course, logically, you have to put on your own
oxygen mask first, and if youhave a consistent flow of oxygen
, then you're able to help morepeople put on their oxygen masks
.
But what we don't talk about isthat moment where you're.
(25:43):
If you're in a plane and theoxygen mask drops down and
you're sitting next to a friendor an elder or your child, a
friend or an elder or your childhow hard would it be to see
(26:09):
that loved one gasping,struggling, and to go just a
minute and put on your own mask?
first and put on your own maskfirst.
So I would say first of alllike start from there, because I
think we have to validate howhard it is.
Wow that just touched me really.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
You know, I just I was right there with you and
yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not you.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
I mean it's not easy, because when we care deeply,
when we feel deeply, when we'reconnected to our love for people
, um, in whatever form thattakes, and we're often also then
trained and socialized to thinkof others first I think in
(26:59):
particular women are socializedto think of others first then
it's it's like really rewritingall that internal yeah talk.
You know all that script has tobe written.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Our d DNA has to be turned around a little bit.
And then as a physician youknow, as an anesthesiologist I'm
putting oxygen on people allthe time.
And that's why it related soclosely to me that you always
(27:34):
think that I'm going to be allright.
You know I'm going to be okay,but I need to think about you,
you know.
Yeah, it certainly is going toneed to have a change in
paradigm.
You know, we really are goingto need to change that, because
one thing that Ange has alwayssaid and she's really getting,
(27:56):
I'm really getting it is thatAfter 50 years almost.
Is that our gifts?
When we are given gifts andabilities, it's our duty and
obligation to do our best tofulfill them and share them best
to fulfill them and share them.
So if we are not taking care ofourselves in order to dispense
(28:21):
our gifts, well then we are notdoing the best that we can do
with what we were given.
You know we are not here to puta lamp cover our light, you
know.
But the light has to be.
You know we need to strengthenour light.
(28:42):
You know we need to replenishour light and we need to
recognize when our light needsreplenishing.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Right, and when I heard Rebecca say that's the
hardest part, you know.
The point that I took away fromwhat Rebecca said is it doesn't
mean like something that isgoing to take you, it's a moment
.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
It takes a moment to put the mask on, it takes a
moment, and so sometimes, whenyou think about.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Oh, I got to do all of this to get ready to help
myself, because it's sometimesjust a moment, just the thought.
How about just thinking?
How about just thinking aboutyou know the imagery that
Rebecca gave us Like it justtakes a moment, but you're so in
(29:34):
your head about no, I can't.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I have to help Look over there.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Look over there and it's like you're like putting on
the mask and then you pass outbecause you didn't turn it
around and put it on you first.
Come on.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Right, come on.
I mean, I don't know how, maybeyou can help.
I haven't timed it, I haven'tlooked at the research.
Leslie, maybe you know.
Like, how long can you holdyour breath without oxygen?
How many other people's maskscan you put on first?
For goodness sake, for goodnesssake.
It's certainly going to be lessNot very long Than if you put
(30:07):
your mask on, and then theamount of people you can help.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
It's a multiplier.
It's a multiplier when youchoose to do that first.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Right, it's a multiplier when you choose to do
that first, right, yeah, soreally, I mean, I think that's
so essential for your friend,for so many people out there
it's needing to recognize againand again.
This is hard, this doesn't comenaturally.
Maybe it doesn't come easily.
It's a new habit that you haveto build.
It's a new muscle that you haveto build as a new muscle that
(30:38):
you have to strengthen and yetto recognize similar to what we
were talking about with the newslike you're doing it for a
purpose, everything that youcare about you'll be able to do
more of more effectively whenyou are taking care of your own
oxygen supply and the messagethat I'd like to give is that it
(30:59):
is not a selfish endeavor whenyou put your
Speaker 1 (31:06):
own oxygen on.
First, I know I can sayculturally as a black woman,
it's almost in our DNA that weare givers and family people and
nurturers and all of that.
And when we turn our attentionto self-improvement and
betterment, sometimes it can belooked at as a negative thing.
(31:27):
You're too self-centered oryou're not family or you know
you're very selfish.
You know, and we have to changethe way that we look at other
people and their behaviors.
You know, yeah, it is notselfish to take care of yourself
(31:49):
, to practice self-care.
You could say, okay, I need tobe there for my family, I'm the
sole provider or I'm this source, but I got to bring my best
self to me.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, it could be.
Just you know I need no, don'tbring the grandchild at 12,
bring her at 1230 because I'mgoing to take a little nap, you
know or I'm going to go buymyself some ice cream and sit in
the park.
Do you know what I mean?
It could just be really simple,small things.
(32:26):
I know sometimes it's like yougot to lose 50 pounds and it's
(32:47):
like, but it starts with losinga half pound.
Yeah, yeah, yes, michigan, howdid you come to have
marginalized people and thesepeople who are the change agents
in the world?
How did they become the core ofyour work?
(33:11):
Like paint that story for us,because I'm curious.
I know the story, but I'mcurious, they're curious.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
There's so many different pieces and layers to
it.
It's like a thousand-piecepuzzle really.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
But I'll try to lay out a few of the pieces.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Bring it on.
I love puzzles.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
You know I had early experiences, of course, that
shaped me.
The church that I grew up inwas one that was very social
justice oriented.
The messages and the teachings.
There were very much aroundlove and inclusion and everybody
(33:53):
having worth and everybodybelonging and everybody having
worth and everybody belonging.
So when I started to haverecognition that that's not how
everybody was treated, that'snot how everybody was living,
then there was a real dissonancethere.
And then I had so manyexperiences kind of across
differences of background, race,ethnicity, socioeconomic status
(34:17):
, geography, where I was gettingto witness and experience the
immense resilience and strengthand joy of different people
living through differenthardships.
So whether I was on serviceprojects or I was housed with a
family in in Jamaica for a fewweeks on on a service project
(34:40):
trip, um my first year out ofcollege.
If you can picture my 22 yearold white girl self, I was my
first job was.
I was hired and I was workingas a house parent at a boy's
home in inner city Detroit, soall of the boys were African
American in that home.
And there I am, 22 year old, me,trying to run a household and
(35:04):
help them with their homeworkand shuttle them to and from
school and activities, and fixmeals and you know and
understand, like, how tomaneuver, and in this inner city
environment where when I wentto the grocery store I was
usually the only white person,in that grocery store, um.
(35:25):
And then I, I went to gradschool a couple years after that
and I remember in mymulticultural counseling course
and I have to kind of chuckle atmyself now, but this was, this
was part of my learning we wereassigned a chapter and in the
chapter I don't remember thefull title, but it had color
blindness and the title oh, andI thought, oh, great, like
(35:48):
perfect, like this is this is mematter yes and so, and then I
start reading the chapter and I,you know, my eyes were opened
and I realized all of theshortcomings to that point of
view and all of the ways inwhich that really invalidated
everything that I just describedyou know the immense strength
(36:09):
anddetermination and joyfulness and
resourcefulness of recognizingpeople's.
How different people'sexperiences were such a core
part of who they are.
And as a therapist as a buddingtherapist the most important
thing to me was to be able tocreate a space.
I mean, the reason why I wantedto be a therapist to begin with
(36:30):
was because I wanted people tobe able to come in and share
their most intimate parts oftheir struggles, to come in and
share their most intimate partsof their struggles, of their
identities, of their experiences, and be understood and be
valued and be recognized in that.
And I knew I wouldn't be ableto do that if I was ignoring or
(36:52):
minimizing, kind of dismissing.
So I had to keep learning and Iwanted to keep learning.
The more I understood, the moreI learned, the more I knew what
I still needed to learn, themore I wanted to learn.
You know, and it's such arewarding experience.
You know that as I over time,have built relationships and
(37:18):
strong connections with peoplefrom different places around the
world, different backgrounds,different religions, different
ethnicities, you know all likeevery time it enriches my world
as well and I cannot fathomloving them and not caring about
the experiences that they'reliving in.
(37:38):
So it just, you know, it justkind of keeps expanding.
It's just an ongoing rippleeffect.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, so, dr Rebecca, in that regard, what do you
make of the movement to removediverse populations from public
life and corporations?
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Even the conversation , even the discussion about it,
even the language.
It's heartbreaking.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
I think it's heartbreaking.
I mean you know, I know thatboth of you also seek to
understand other points of viewand because my experience has
been so enriched byrelationships, by you know, not
just knowing people, not justlike hello, how are you?
(38:31):
But by getting to know you know, I mean being a therapist is
such a gift you get let into the.
I mean my clients regularlytell me like there's nobody else
in the world that knowss thepeople who are losing their
financial from not having thebrilliance of people there
(39:21):
contributing their unique giftsand strengths and perspectives
to help those businesses, thoseorganizations and those systems
to be that much more meaningful.
You know, for people who aremeasuring it by the dollars,
also more financially successful.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
I was just going to ask you what America stands to
lose with these behaviors andactions and proposals, and you
said it right there, you said itright there Everything right,
everything everybody's got wouldwin yeah, yeah, it's hard, it's
.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
It's very hard for me to relate from my own
experience where, where I see itis in um, like the science of
fear, right in the science of um, people feeling threatened,
people feeling like they're inscarcity, like if other people
(40:21):
are getting more than it meansI'm going to get less.
There's a lot of discussionaround white men in particular
feeling, you know, kind ofemotionally insecure and
threatened, and you know so I doa lot of pondering around the
psychology of it from differentangles.
(40:43):
But there's so much to lose,you know, there's so much more
to be gained throughinclusiveness.
And you know I don't have theexperience, obviously, of being
a black woman I never will orbeing, in this country, a
religious minority or a sexualminority, but I think most
(41:10):
people, even if you don't sharea specific identity
characteristic, there's a timein your life where you felt
excluded.
I mean, I know I have you know,and I wish that we could come
together around a humanity ofyou.
Don't have to have livedsomebody else's exact experience
in order to genuinely care andfeel compassion for the emotions
(41:36):
, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Yes, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Leslie, you're the timekeeper right.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah, I'm checking time, we're good but this is so
needy and important.
Go ahead, ange.
I have some thoughts also and aquestion Go ahead, I'm getting
a headache.
I have some thoughts also and aquestion, okay.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
All right, thank you, I'm getting a headache.
Thank you for deferring this.
Is so heavy, dr Rebecca, thisis heavy.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
It's necessary, necessary.
Yeah, I think it's Okay.
I have to bring my head out ofthe sand in order to engage.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Yes, ma'am, or white other, they intersect.
You're kind of in theintersection there, right?
What are you hearing frompeople in your circle or not in
your circle, just people whoyou're around what are some
perspectives that they may havethat can help the people over
(42:59):
here to kind of understand?
And you kind of probablytouched on it when you talked
about fear and how that shows upand scarcity and things like
that Any insight that you cangive to us, to our listeners
around I mean, we don't want tothink of other people as being
(43:19):
evil, right?
What insights can you give usfrom that part of your
experience that could help us tounderstand what can be at play
in people really supporting someof the things that are really
harmful to us over here?
(43:41):
Is that clear, Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah, yes.
So I think that we've beenseeing fear be weaponized, right
and so, when things likediversity, equity, inclusion,
(44:06):
social justice, belonging accessyou know these things are have
been increasingly treated asdirty words, as as um.
So the narrative that's beenpromoted in these particular
(44:26):
pockets around that is that thisis a threat to your ability to
get a job, right, if this is athreat to your ability to get
into the college of your choicethis is a threat to you.
(44:48):
Know, then, those things ofcourse are.
This is a threat to your abilityto live.
Earlier today, actually part ofa conversation where somebody
(45:08):
was being interviewed onChristian nationalism and how
intertwined that is as wellMm-hmm, particular subset right,
it's not all christians, it'snot all forms of christianity,
we saw.
We're seeing some very publicexamples of that um, with
(45:49):
reverend um giving the themessage.
I think the two of you did apodcast on it yeah yeah um
reverend buddy and yet for this,this message that's like not so
much, not so much a separationof church and state, in fact
(46:12):
maybe even really advocating forthe opposite of that, and so
anything that's not for that.
And I would say this I seeexamples of this on social media
from people in my circle.
Then it's a threat to theirbelief system, then it's a
(46:39):
threat to their religiousfreedom.
You know it's like almost like.
Well, if you're not willing toput the Ten Commandments in
schools, then you're threateningmy religious belief.
And so I think still there'sthis operating from this sense
(47:02):
of if you're wanting to do itdifferently or if you're wanting
the freedom to do itdifferently, then somehow that's
taking away from myopportunities.
I think that that does a lot ofdamage because it does pit
people against one another andcause people to move into a
(47:26):
state of dysregulation notprogrammed to help us thrive or
be our most ethical moral selvesor problem solve effectively or
communicate compassionately.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
You know it's, it's programmed to like protect my
survival so the more you stay inthat state, the more it's that
response versus a considered,you know, rational way of
thinking you stay in that kindof fight or flight.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
But you know, Rebecca , how you mentioned earlier that
one of the formative influencesof who you are was your
religious faith and yourinterpretation of the Bible.
Love your neighbor and begiving.
Of the Bible, love yourneighbor and be giving, and we
(48:27):
think of the parables of thestranger and things like that.
But that doesn't seem to be thesame lesson, the same
understanding or practice frommany of the evangelicals or the
Christian nationalists.
You know, I don't see the samelove of the population, mocked
her and said she is absolutelynot a religious leader and they
(49:14):
never even recognized the pleafor mercy, even recognize the
plea for mercy.
So if we can't recognize eventhat, that she was humbling
herself in front of this man ofpower.
I don't know when do we go fromthere, Just to get a little bit
(49:34):
of peace in our hearts.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
Yes, well, I'll tell you, um, I do think there are
certain messages that are beingamplified to, and when we hear
something a lot and loudly, thenwe tend to um interpret that as
(49:57):
the most, you know, the mostwidespread or predominant
viewpoint.
And I question that how muchwhat we're seeing and what we're
hearing is an accuraterepresentation.
Because when we look atactually holes that show what
(50:18):
are the views, what are thevalues, what do most Americans
think, what do most US citizensthink, what do most Christians
think, I don't think that thenumbers are representative.
They're not matching thepreponderance of what we're
seeing and hearing thepreponderance of what we're
(50:39):
seeing and hearing, especiallywhen you look at how algorithms
are influencing even what yousee in a news feed or what you
see in your social media feedRight.
So I mean we're almost circlingback to that earlier question
of what are the sources of whereyou're really getting your
information, because it can skewyour perception and some people
(51:02):
, the people that are feelingisolated.
You know it's working.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
I mean I'll say it's working because people.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
I'm hearing a lot of people say like I feel like I'm
alone.
I feel like I'm the only onewho's you know looking around
and saying there's a problemwith this.
And that is not true.
So if you're feeling that way,you know, please take heart and
hope in the fact that that isnot true.
There are millions of peoplethat care.
(51:32):
I was on one call, oneorganizing call, that had 50,000
people registered for it at thebeginning of the hour, had
80,000 people registered for itby the end of that hour.
And that's just the people forone hour of time showing up
because they care.
Wow, so just you know.
(51:54):
Really, we don't know what'spossible if we hope and take
action, but we do know what'spossible if we don't.
Oh yes, so, please take heart,connect, look for the people
that care.
You know there are people andorganizations doing amazing work
(52:17):
, and that is where I draw somuch of my inspiration from.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
Oh man, what a wonderful way to end this
segment, in other words, themonsters are not as big as they
seem.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
Yes, my kids used to watch VeggieTales and just
forgive me for not being able tosing, but it it goes um, um.
God is bigger than theboogeyman, he's bigger than
godzilla or the monster is on tv, oh, wow, wow.
(52:56):
So yeah, that okay in my brainthat pops in because it's like
you.
You think that, um, wow, to doit by yourself.
You don't have to feel likeit's only you.
You can find, plug in, pluginto those organizations,
(53:23):
probably right in yourneighborhood that someone just
told me about, the Pauli Murray.
There's a Pauli Murraycommunity group here that I have
to plug into because, yeah,they're doing the work.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
So, anyway, this has been wonderful.
We're at the end.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
Thank you so much, Rebecca.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
Thank you for sharing this.
I'm encouraged, I'm inspired.
We're going to provide links toyour information and how people
can continue to know about thewonderful work that you're doing
, but I feel blessed to havespent this time with you.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
Thank you, rebecca.
Can you just mention yourworkshop, please, and we'll also
put links, but just mentionyour workshop and when it is,
and so on, please.
Speaker 3 (54:15):
Sure.
So right now there's a series ofthree, and then we'll see what
people need after that.
But we did the first one, as wewere talking about Angela this
past Wednesday, and that wasreally about how to protect
yourself through preventions,through being very intentional,
especially around the news, butcertainly applies to other areas
(54:37):
.
The next one is going to bearound understanding your own
unique nervous system responses,so really being able to tune
into the nuances of how yourthoughts and feelings and
physical sensations changedepending on what's going on
with your nervous system, sothat you can respond to it with
(54:59):
more understanding andcompassion rather than just
kicking yourself while you'redown.
And the third one will be onrecovery.
You know, when you findyourself in these states of
overwhelm, fight or flight,freeze like head in the sand.
You know how do you bringyourself back into a state of
(55:20):
calm, clear, connected, whereyou can problem solve, take
action, connect with your lovedones all of the good things of
functioning optimally that comefrom that place, so how to be
able to use what you understandabout yourself to recover more
quickly.
And each of them is obviouslyrelated to the others, but they
(55:43):
can also stand alone.
Yeah, yeah, if people haven'tcome to the first one.
That's okay and you know I havea, angela knows I did not
record the live one because thelive ones are a private, safe
space for people to come andparticipate and share and not
have to worry about where thatrecording is going afterwards.
(56:04):
But I had recorded just acontent piece from the first one
separately and so if people areinterested in that, by
registering they can also get acopy of that recording.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
Oh, that's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
Thank you, Rebecca.
Well, thank you Highlyrecommended, highly recommended.
Speaker 2 (56:22):
Okay, guys, thank you for being a part of the episode
today.
We appreciate it.
And, yeah, take us out, les.
Speaker 1 (56:31):
So this has been another episode of Black Boomer
Besties from Brooklyn, brooklynBye.
Hey, luz, how you doing, doing great, doing well.
Good, it's Valentine's Day.
We're really happy because loveis in the air, yeah, and
because it is an episode whereone of my favorite new people
(00:25):
new favorite people in my lifeis here with us.
I'm going to say Dr RebeccaEldridge.
Okay, rebecca is with us andreally excited about her work,
sharing it with you.
We love to share joy andRebecca is someone who does some
(00:46):
incredible work.
We'll talk about that in alittle bit, but before we go
into that, let us introduceourselves.
Welcome to another episode ofBlack Boomer Besties from
Brooklyn.
I'm Angela, and that is my bestfriend of almost 50 years,
leslie.
We are two intellectuallycurious older black women.
(01:07):
We like to dig down.
We're not surfacy people.
We like to dig deep on issues.
We like to push against normsand disrupt systems and ways of
thinking that deserve to bedisrupted, and we're going to be
doing that today also.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
And Ange for Valentine's Day.
I want to say I heart you, ohboy, and as one of my besties,
and the bestie for almost 50years, happy Valentine's Day,
love.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Thank you, sweetie pie.
Happy Valentine's Day.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Happy Valentine's Day to everyone in our listening
audience.
Rebecca's wearing red today.
We're really, she's ready,she's ready.
And so let me start with how wemet.
Rebecca and I met about a yearago.
Has it been a year, rebecca?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
It has, yeah a little over a year, january.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
In Puerto Rico we went for a conference, the ROI
conference.
Rachel Rogers has a yearlyconference called ROI.
We met there.
We were actually roommates in abig Airbnb and we just
energetically connected and sowe had long talks late at night
(02:36):
on walks and I know you guys canunderstand when I talk about
energy.
For me it's kind of the waythat questions and answers play
back and forth between twopeople sometimes really shows
energy, because we were able totalk about some things that I
(02:59):
think other people who may nothave had this connection would
have felt really uncomfortableObviously Rebecca's a white
woman.
Obviously I'm a Black woman andI'm going to read a little bit
about her work so that you kindof understand how deep some of
these conversations may havebeen.
So for two decades licensedpsychologist, dr Rebecca
(03:23):
Eldridge has focused onintegrating multicultural issues
into her work with clients,higher ed systems, organizations
and refugees.
As a therapist, speaker, coachand facilitator, she applies her
mental health expertise andpassion for social justice in
service of those who give somuch of themselves to others.
(03:45):
Let me read that again.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, read that again .
Speaker 2 (04:08):
She looks out for the people who look out for others.
In other words, rebeccaincorporates neuroscience and
somatic approaches into how wetake care of ourselves and each
other, engage with difficultconversations and improve
relationships and systems to bespaces of inclusion, belonging
and safety for all people.
I'm going to stop there,because the rest just lists all
(04:31):
of her education and incredibleacademic accolades.
But we're going to stop there,because this is why we connected
and why we were able to havesuch deep conversations.
So with that, I'm going to openup to Rebecca.
(04:52):
Dear Rebecca, welcome.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Thank you so much.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So, rebecca also, I think we both have these ways of
knowing one the other as a needand just kind of, hey, how's it
going?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Thinking about you everything good.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
So we've been doing that reached out because she has
been.
She's created these workshops,these free workshops, every
Wednesday at 12 o'clock.
We'll put the links to this.
Hopefully you'll be able tocatch one or two of them by the
(05:34):
time this airs.
And, rebecca, can you tell usabout these workshops and why
you felt compelled to do themnow?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yes, yes, sure.
Well, the simplest answer isbecause of the conversations
that I was having with people myclients, my friends, my family,
people in my network over thepast three weeks-ish in
particular.
I've been doing a lot ofchecking in with people and I
(06:08):
was hearing a lot of the samechallenges over and over again,
especially people feeling reallydysregulated, really
overwhelmed, reallyincapacitated by the news and by
taking in information, seeingwhat's happening locally,
nationally, internationally, andhearing people really struggle
(06:32):
with the tension between wantingto be informed and engaged and
feeling like doing so reallyjust took them completely out of
commission at times.
Like you know, not being ableto function with taking in a lot
of what was happening.
(06:52):
Very familiar, pervasive thatchallenge was.
I found myself kind of gettingto some of the same points with
people, them finding thosehelpful and then some friends
eventually said you need to putthis into a workshop.
(07:15):
So you know, just really lookingat, okay, this is what people
are needing right now and how doI make it available to as many
people as possible and how do Imake it available to as many?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
people as possible.
So I attended the workshop thispast Wednesday and highly
recommend it.
I'll tell you a particularthing that was helpful for me
and I've been doing it, andactually, not only have I been
(07:56):
doing it, but I also have sharedthis with my siblings.
We had a sibling call yesterdayand I shared it with them
because, yes, this is a realthing.
What Rebecca suggested that wedo.
One of the things is to bereally clear about why you're
consuming the news.
Pick a thing For me it'straveling abroad and how the
(08:23):
changes that are going on willaffect that and consume the news
that is related to that,something that helps you to be
in action, to be planning, to benot distracted but moving
towards a goal that you have,versus being all over here and
(08:45):
bombarded.
It becomes this resource,versus something that causes a
lot of distraction and distressand depression.
And so, rebecca, that was myone major takeaway from the
workshop, which started withmeditation, which was beautiful,
(09:06):
and so I want to thank you forthat, and I describe it because
I want people to understand thatthese workshops, they give you
actual tools.
I think you actually call it.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
What's the name of the workshop you call it tools
right tailored tools for thesetimes, and really because what
people were using before is notworking for them now, and I
think that's really been anadditional source of distress.
It's like you know I do thesethings.
How come I'm still feeling sobad, like it's not like people
(09:44):
didn't have coping strategiesbefore that they were using.
It's not like people haven'tbeen through stressful times in
the past, you know, and so it'slike, but in these times people
are needing to do some tinkeringwith the tools that they have
and sometimes expand, sometimesjust modify a little bit to
figure out.
(10:05):
This is a new moment in yourlife, in history Like this
moment has never happened inexactly this way, and so really
looking at specific tools orways you can use tools that are
different now than they werebefore, yeah, yeah than they
were before.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, yeah, I'm really grateful for it.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I think it's kind of interesting that you bring up
using tools or coming up withsome type of strategy.
I just had a conversation witha family member just yesterday
and she was explaining to methat she has a lot of anxiety
looking at television these daysand she says you know, what
(10:48):
Trump is doing is reallyfrightening me and I may need to
take my money out of the bankand you know, and what am I
going to do with it if they takeit, all of these federal
changes?
You know, and she was reallyexpressing this anxiety and what
I offered was that I said maybeyou can change the way that you
look and take in thatinformation.
(11:10):
I mean, instead of watchingtelevision or the same shows
every day, maybe you can look atit every other day or once a
week or something like that, youknow.
So it is gonna it seems likeit's going to require us to
change normal habits that arecomfortable for us and have
(11:31):
worked for us in the past.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Exactly exactly, and she's certainly not alone with
the anxiety and so much of newsanywhere in this media
environment where information isso overstimulating you know
it's coming so fast and furious,one thing on top of another.
You're just processing the lastthing and three more things
(11:54):
have still come on top of itbefore you've even finished with
one and so, leslie, your pointis exactly right like to really
consider what are the sources.
You know, for some people, forexample, the visual is more
distressing.
So reading it or listening toit, versus seeing the images on
(12:14):
a screen.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Noticing.
This is what I'm wanting to getout of it.
As Angela said, this is mypurpose for consuming this
information or this news, andwhat are the sources that are
going to best serve that purpose?
So, in chaos and swirl and inthe vortex of everything that's
going on, and also not puttingyour media the every day, every
hour news cycle and I, as aresult of just not wanting to
bring in so much informationinto my space, I've been missing
listening to my typical newssources or watching television
or the talk shows that I've been, you know, used to listening to
.
I kind of feel like my head isin the sand a little bit Like.
(13:37):
I haven't heard what's going onwith the Oscars or this or that,
because I'm kind of shutting itdown and I'm not really sure
how to get back into it.
But on a smaller scale, Couldwe?
Put my toe back into the water.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Mm-hmm.
So, on Rebecca's workshop, sheasked a question and it made me
think about my privilege, right,and I thought about that, les,
because, les, because you know,certain of us we have, um, I
(14:08):
think it is privileged to not beum listening to certain things,
right, because it's notaffecting us or it's it's, it's
some, oh, you know, it's someways away from us.
We're not feeling the directimpact of it.
I was watching Mo.
It's a series, a Palestiniancomedian, and they just released
(14:35):
a new season and I really Imean it's just a really well
done show and one of my favoriteperforming artists, Tobin Wigwe
, is on it and anyway.
So his mother in the show wasconstantly looking at the news
(14:58):
and this was before.
It must have been filmed beforethe kind of more intense
attacks in Gaza and she justcouldn't help it because her
family was there and she, youknow, everywhere she went, she
was on her phone.
This is an older woman and shewas constantly on her phone and
(15:29):
that comes to mind right nowbecause things were directly
affecting her and she didn'tfeel like she had the liberty or
the, the um, the she.
She felt like she had aresponsibility to consume the
news, because to do otherwisewas to be ignoring those people
that she loved or cared about,and so, in that way, is the way
that I'm talking about privilegein this moment that, rebecca,
(15:49):
maybe you can speak to some ofthat, because that's where my
guilt is coming up too.
Is that okay?
I can choose what to listen to,because I'm a little bit
removed from it at this pointanyway.
So, have you heard that type ofsentiment expressed by your
clients, or what might you?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
say about that?
Yes, and I can relate toholding privilege in a number of
my identities, including as awhite person as well, and then
making intentional choicesaround that, and then making
intentional choices around that.
So you know for a lot of people.
That's why I start early onwith what are your intentions.
(16:32):
A lot of people say I want tobe informed, but informed for
what, Like informed why?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Why is it?
Speaker 3 (16:42):
important to you to be informed.
Do you just want to feel like,oh, I know everything that's
going on?
For most people, that's not theend goal.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
It's not just to be a know-it-all for most people.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
maybe for a few, but you know, for most people
there's something beyond that.
I want to be informed so that Iknow what to say if ICE does a
raid in my neighborhood.
I know what my rights are.
I know what my neighbor'srights are.
Or I want to be informed sothat I can call my
(17:14):
representatives and voice myopinion.
I want to be informed, you know.
one of the things for me is Iwant to be informed so that I
know how to show up for myclients so that, even if it's
not my personal experience,they're not having to educate me
over and over and over again onwhat they're facing, what
they're wanting to know and whythey're wanting to know it then
(17:36):
the choices change around thatand then, even though, for
example, I still have theprivilege and I don't look you
know I'm not scanning the newsstories every hour because that
(18:00):
would be a disservice to mygoals I would be less capable of
showing up for people and beingpresent and being responsive
and taking action if I'mconstantly sending myself into
overwhelm?
And so I think you can use theprivilege and you can also turn
the privilege around and say Ido have this privilege and
(18:20):
because I have this privilege, Iwant to use it really
intentionally.
Privilege and because I havethis privilege.
I want to use it reallyintentionally.
So for me the privilege isintegrated into what is my
purpose for consuming news howam I going to use that news and
my privilege to go out and makea difference, to be there for my
clients, to show up in mycommunity and advocate for the
(18:44):
changes that I want to see?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Wow, that's pretty powerful.
And by being selective.
In that way you feel moreempowered and not just a voyeur
looking in.
You know when you want to getthe latest, you know
sensationalism, or to talk tosomeone about it on social media
or whatever.
Yeah yeah, way more intentional.
(19:08):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Another thing that I got really clear about as a
result of your workshop is to beselective around the source of
the news that I'm getting right.
So, who are some people in thepolitical realm that I trust,
(19:34):
Stacey Abrams, for example right.
Who are some of the podcaststhat I trust, Karen Hunter, for
example.
Right, and just to bedeliberate, because I do?
I think because there's been alot of intentionality, including
self-care, in how I've beenconsuming what has been
(20:01):
unfolding.
It has allowed me to be able tonow, okay, I can kind of, I can
kind of see what's going on.
I do want to get involved.
How, and so it's not by all ofthis, because that will be like
depleting me.
Who are the people that I canlisten to and take action based
(20:21):
on what they're saying?
Right, and just block the?
Speaker 3 (20:27):
other stuff out.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And so just being really really clear about doing
that and moving into action issomething else that I want to
thank you for, because it youknow, the workshop, I can kind
of workshop, workshop.
The workshop, I can kind ofworkshop, workshop, workshop.
Let me just say it was a gift.
I focused on something that wasreally meaningful for an hour,
(20:55):
something that soothed me,something that informed me, and
that is why I asked Rebecca tocome on to our podcast, because
we are joy sharers.
We, you know, if we experiencesomething that is positive and
(21:16):
progressive and moves us forwardand clears the path for us, we
bring it here, and so that's whywe're having this conversation,
that's why Rebecca's here.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
I appreciate that.
I do appreciate that and I feellike that's, you know, my
mission is maybe correlates withthat, because I feel like one
of the most important thingsthat my soapbox is again and
again is about well-being.
And joy is such a part ofwell-being, you know.
(21:52):
in fact, I think you can'treally claim to have well-being
if you're not having joy, as apart of that, and yet you know,
it's something that people oftencompromise on or try to cut
corners around, and it's themost important thing if you're
wanting to continue to live.
(22:14):
Live like, not just survive,but live, thrive, be
wholehearted in yourrelationships.
Be engaged in the world.
Be wholehearted in yourrelationships.
Be engaged in the world.
Most people have some way thatthey want to be remembered or
(22:34):
some legacy that they want toleave behind.
Right, and if you're runningyourself into the ground because
you're expending so much energytowards others that you're not
taking care of yourself, thenyou're depleting what actually
could be a renewable resource.
You know?
Your well-being can be arenewable resource, but you have
to tend to it.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Rebecca, you said a word.
Wow, yeah, you know this personimmediately comes to mind.
I won't call her name, but ifshe's listening she's going to
know.
I have a friend who is anentrepreneur and a parent,
(23:14):
grandparent, no-transcript tobuild her business, to grow her
(23:36):
business.
She's very community-minded andI don't think she knows how to
see the world through seeingherself as a renewable resource
versus a resource that I'm goingto just expend it all for those
around me, and I'll think ofmyself after.
(23:58):
What would you say to someonelike her, who feels really
committed to legacy, to thedetriment of her own health and
well-being and joy.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Well, she's certainly not alone in that, because I
would say that's a hugepercentage of the change makers
and leaders that I work with arein that boat where they care so
deeply for, for their family,for their friends right, where
they're expending so much energy, whether for their own business
(24:38):
or for the organization thatthey work for.
And you said, angela, you saidit, you're like I'll take care
of myself later.
You know, something along thoselines Like once I, once I take
care of everybody else, once Ifix everything.
Whatever's left, those are thescraps that I'll live off of you
(25:00):
know that those will be themoments that I'll, you know,
close my eyes and take a breathand the oxygen mask example gets
overused.
I recognize it's overused.
I'm going to overuse it againwith a question of you know, we
(25:21):
talk about it like it's so easyto think about.
Well, yes, of course, logically, you have to put on your own
oxygen mask first, and if youhave a consistent flow of oxygen
, then you're able to help morepeople put on their oxygen masks
.
But what we don't talk about isthat moment where you're.
(25:43):
If you're in a plane and theoxygen mask drops down and
you're sitting next to a friendor an elder or your child, a
friend or an elder or your childhow hard would it be to see
(26:09):
that loved one gasping,struggling, and to go just a
minute and put on your own mask?
first and put on your own maskfirst.
So I would say first of alllike start from there, because I
think we have to validate howhard it is.
Wow that just touched me really.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
You know, I just I was right there with you and
yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not you.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
I mean it's not easy, because when we care deeply,
when we feel deeply, when we'reconnected to our love for people
, um, in whatever form thattakes, and we're often also then
trained and socialized to thinkof others first I think in
(26:59):
particular women are socializedto think of others first then
it's it's like really rewritingall that internal yeah talk.
You know all that script has tobe written.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Our d DNA has to be turned around a little bit.
And then as a physician youknow, as an anesthesiologist I'm
putting oxygen on people allthe time.
And that's why it related soclosely to me that you always
(27:34):
think that I'm going to be allright.
You know I'm going to be okay,but I need to think about you,
you know.
Yeah, it certainly is going toneed to have a change in
paradigm.
You know, we really are goingto need to change that, because
one thing that Ange has alwayssaid and she's really getting,
(27:56):
I'm really getting it is thatAfter 50 years almost.
Is that our gifts?
When we are given gifts andabilities, it's our duty and
obligation to do our best tofulfill them and share them best
to fulfill them and share them.
So if we are not taking care ofourselves in order to dispense
(28:21):
our gifts, well then we are notdoing the best that we can do
with what we were given.
You know we are not here to puta lamp cover our light, you
know.
But the light has to be.
You know we need to strengthenour light.
(28:42):
You know we need to replenishour light and we need to
recognize when our light needsreplenishing.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Right, and when I heard Rebecca say that's the
hardest part, you know.
The point that I took away fromwhat Rebecca said is it doesn't
mean like something that isgoing to take you, it's a moment
.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
It takes a moment to put the mask on, it takes a
moment, and so sometimes, whenyou think about.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Oh, I got to do all of this to get ready to help
myself, because it's sometimesjust a moment, just the thought.
How about just thinking?
How about just thinking aboutyou know the imagery that
Rebecca gave us Like it justtakes a moment, but you're so in
(29:34):
your head about no, I can't.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I have to help Look over there.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Look over there and it's like you're like putting on
the mask and then you pass outbecause you didn't turn it
around and put it on you first.
Come on.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
Right, come on.
I mean, I don't know how, maybeyou can help.
I haven't timed it, I haven'tlooked at the research.
Leslie, maybe you know.
Like, how long can you holdyour breath without oxygen?
How many other people's maskscan you put on first?
For goodness sake, for goodnesssake.
It's certainly going to be lessNot very long Than if you put
(30:07):
your mask on, and then theamount of people you can help.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
It's a multiplier.
It's a multiplier when youchoose to do that first.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Right, it's a multiplier when you choose to do
that first, right, yeah, soreally, I mean, I think that's
so essential for your friend,for so many people out there
it's needing to recognize againand again.
This is hard, this doesn't comenaturally.
Maybe it doesn't come easily.
It's a new habit that you haveto build.
It's a new muscle that you haveto build as a new muscle that
(30:38):
you have to strengthen and yetto recognize similar to what we
were talking about with the newslike you're doing it for a
purpose, everything that youcare about you'll be able to do
more of more effectively whenyou are taking care of your own
oxygen supply and the messagethat I'd like to give is that it
(30:59):
is not a selfish endeavor whenyou put your
Speaker 1 (31:06):
own oxygen on.
First, I know I can sayculturally as a black woman,
it's almost in our DNA that weare givers and family people and
nurturers and all of that.
And when we turn our attentionto self-improvement and
betterment, sometimes it can belooked at as a negative thing.
(31:27):
You're too self-centered oryou're not family or you know
you're very selfish.
You know, and we have to changethe way that we look at other
people and their behaviors.
You know, yeah, it is notselfish to take care of yourself
(31:49):
, to practice self-care.
You could say, okay, I need tobe there for my family, I'm the
sole provider or I'm this source, but I got to bring my best
self to me.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
Yeah, it could be.
Just you know I need no, don'tbring the grandchild at 12,
bring her at 1230 because I'mgoing to take a little nap, you
know or I'm going to go buymyself some ice cream and sit in
the park.
Do you know what I mean?
It could just be really simple,small things.
(32:26):
I know sometimes it's like yougot to lose 50 pounds and it's
(32:47):
like, but it starts with losinga half pound.
Yeah, yeah, yes, michigan, howdid you come to have
marginalized people and thesepeople who are the change agents
in the world?
How did they become the core ofyour work?
(33:11):
Like paint that story for us,because I'm curious.
I know the story, but I'mcurious, they're curious.
Speaker 3 (33:19):
There's so many different pieces and layers to
it.
It's like a thousand-piecepuzzle really.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
But I'll try to lay out a few of the pieces.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Bring it on.
I love puzzles.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
You know I had early experiences, of course, that
shaped me.
The church that I grew up inwas one that was very social
justice oriented.
The messages and the teachings.
There were very much aroundlove and inclusion and everybody
(33:53):
having worth and everybodybelonging and everybody having
worth and everybody belonging.
So when I started to haverecognition that that's not how
everybody was treated, that'snot how everybody was living,
then there was a real dissonancethere.
And then I had so manyexperiences kind of across
differences of background, race,ethnicity, socioeconomic status
(34:17):
, geography, where I was gettingto witness and experience the
immense resilience and strengthand joy of different people
living through differenthardships.
So whether I was on serviceprojects or I was housed with a
family in in Jamaica for a fewweeks on on a service project
(34:40):
trip, um my first year out ofcollege.
If you can picture my 22 yearold white girl self, I was my
first job was.
I was hired and I was workingas a house parent at a boy's
home in inner city Detroit, soall of the boys were African
American in that home.
And there I am, 22 year old, me,trying to run a household and
(35:04):
help them with their homeworkand shuttle them to and from
school and activities, and fixmeals and you know and
understand, like, how tomaneuver, and in this inner city
environment where when I wentto the grocery store I was
usually the only white person,in that grocery store, um.
(35:25):
And then I, I went to gradschool a couple years after that
and I remember in mymulticultural counseling course
and I have to kind of chuckle atmyself now, but this was, this
was part of my learning we wereassigned a chapter and in the
chapter I don't remember thefull title, but it had color
blindness and the title oh, andI thought, oh, great, like
(35:48):
perfect, like this is this is mematter yes and so, and then I
start reading the chapter and I,you know, my eyes were opened
and I realized all of theshortcomings to that point of
view and all of the ways inwhich that really invalidated
everything that I just describedyou know the immense strength
(36:09):
anddetermination and joyfulness and
resourcefulness of recognizingpeople's.
How different people'sexperiences were such a core
part of who they are.
And as a therapist as a buddingtherapist the most important
thing to me was to be able tocreate a space.
I mean, the reason why I wantedto be a therapist to begin with
(36:30):
was because I wanted people tobe able to come in and share
their most intimate parts oftheir struggles, to come in and
share their most intimate partsof their struggles, of their
identities, of their experiences, and be understood and be
valued and be recognized in that.
And I knew I wouldn't be ableto do that if I was ignoring or
(36:52):
minimizing, kind of dismissing.
So I had to keep learning and Iwanted to keep learning.
The more I understood, the moreI learned, the more I knew what
I still needed to learn, themore I wanted to learn.
You know, and it's such arewarding experience.
You know that as I over time,have built relationships and
(37:18):
strong connections with peoplefrom different places around the
world, different backgrounds,different religions, different
ethnicities, you know all likeevery time it enriches my world
as well and I cannot fathomloving them and not caring about
the experiences that they'reliving in.
(37:38):
So it just, you know, it justkind of keeps expanding.
It's just an ongoing rippleeffect.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, so, dr Rebecca, in that regard, what do you
make of the movement to removediverse populations from public
life and corporations?
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Even the conversation , even the discussion about it,
even the language.
It's heartbreaking.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
I think it's heartbreaking.
I mean you know, I know thatboth of you also seek to
understand other points of viewand because my experience has
been so enriched byrelationships, by you know, not
just knowing people, not justlike hello, how are you?
(38:31):
But by getting to know you know, I mean being a therapist is
such a gift you get let into the.
I mean my clients regularlytell me like there's nobody else
in the world that knowss thepeople who are losing their
financial from not having thebrilliance of people there
(39:21):
contributing their unique giftsand strengths and perspectives
to help those businesses, thoseorganizations and those systems
to be that much more meaningful.
You know, for people who aremeasuring it by the dollars,
also more financially successful.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
I was just going to ask you what America stands to
lose with these behaviors andactions and proposals, and you
said it right there, you said itright there Everything right,
everything everybody's got wouldwin yeah, yeah, it's hard, it's
.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
It's very hard for me to relate from my own
experience where, where I see itis in um, like the science of
fear, right in the science of um, people feeling threatened,
people feeling like they're inscarcity, like if other people
(40:21):
are getting more than it meansI'm going to get less.
There's a lot of discussionaround white men in particular
feeling, you know, kind ofemotionally insecure and
threatened, and you know so I doa lot of pondering around the
psychology of it from differentangles.
(40:43):
But there's so much to lose,you know, there's so much more
to be gained throughinclusiveness.
And you know I don't have theexperience, obviously, of being
a black woman I never will orbeing, in this country, a
religious minority or a sexualminority, but I think most
(41:10):
people, even if you don't sharea specific identity
characteristic, there's a timein your life where you felt
excluded.
I mean, I know I have you know,and I wish that we could come
together around a humanity ofyou.
Don't have to have livedsomebody else's exact experience
in order to genuinely care andfeel compassion for the emotions
(41:36):
, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Yes, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Leslie, you're the timekeeper right.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah, I'm checking time, we're good but this is so
needy and important.
Go ahead, ange.
I have some thoughts also and aquestion Go ahead, I'm getting
a headache.
I have some thoughts also and aquestion, okay.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
All right, thank you, I'm getting a headache.
Thank you for deferring this.
Is so heavy, dr Rebecca, thisis heavy.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
It's necessary, necessary.
Yeah, I think it's Okay.
I have to bring my head out ofthe sand in order to engage.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Yes, ma'am, or white other, they intersect.
You're kind of in theintersection there, right?
What are you hearing frompeople in your circle or not in
your circle, just people whoyou're around what are some
perspectives that they may havethat can help the people over
(42:59):
here to kind of understand?
And you kind of probablytouched on it when you talked
about fear and how that shows upand scarcity and things like
that Any insight that you cangive to us, to our listeners
around I mean, we don't want tothink of other people as being
(43:19):
evil, right?
What insights can you give usfrom that part of your
experience that could help us tounderstand what can be at play
in people really supporting someof the things that are really
harmful to us over here?
(43:41):
Is that clear, Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah, yes.
So I think that we've beenseeing fear be weaponized, right
and so, when things likediversity, equity, inclusion,
(44:06):
social justice, belonging accessyou know these things are have
been increasingly treated asdirty words, as as um.
So the narrative that's beenpromoted in these particular
(44:26):
pockets around that is that thisis a threat to your ability to
get a job, right, if this is athreat to your ability to get
into the college of your choicethis is a threat to you.
(44:48):
Know, then, those things ofcourse are.
This is a threat to your abilityto live.
Earlier today, actually part ofa conversation where somebody
(45:08):
was being interviewed onChristian nationalism and how
intertwined that is as wellMm-hmm, particular subset right,
it's not all christians, it'snot all forms of christianity,
we saw.
We're seeing some very publicexamples of that um, with
(45:49):
reverend um giving the themessage.
I think the two of you did apodcast on it yeah yeah um
reverend buddy and yet for this,this message that's like not so
much, not so much a separationof church and state, in fact
(46:12):
maybe even really advocating forthe opposite of that, and so
anything that's not for that.
And I would say this I seeexamples of this on social media
from people in my circle.
Then it's a threat to theirbelief system, then it's a
(46:39):
threat to their religiousfreedom.
You know it's like almost like.
Well, if you're not willing toput the Ten Commandments in
schools, then you're threateningmy religious belief.
And so I think still there'sthis operating from this sense
(47:02):
of if you're wanting to do itdifferently or if you're wanting
the freedom to do itdifferently, then somehow that's
taking away from myopportunities.
I think that that does a lot ofdamage because it does pit
people against one another andcause people to move into a
(47:26):
state of dysregulation notprogrammed to help us thrive or
be our most ethical moral selvesor problem solve effectively or
communicate compassionately.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
You know it's, it's programmed to like protect my
survival so the more you stay inthat state, the more it's that
response versus a considered,you know, rational way of
thinking you stay in that kindof fight or flight.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
But you know, Rebecca , how you mentioned earlier that
one of the formative influencesof who you are was your
religious faith and yourinterpretation of the Bible.
Love your neighbor and begiving.
Of the Bible, love yourneighbor and be giving, and we
(48:27):
think of the parables of thestranger and things like that.
But that doesn't seem to be thesame lesson, the same
understanding or practice frommany of the evangelicals or the
Christian nationalists.
You know, I don't see the samelove of the population, mocked
her and said she is absolutelynot a religious leader and they
(49:14):
never even recognized the pleafor mercy, even recognize the
plea for mercy.
So if we can't recognize eventhat, that she was humbling
herself in front of this man ofpower.
I don't know when do we go fromthere, Just to get a little bit
(49:34):
of peace in our hearts.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
Yes, well, I'll tell you, um, I do think there are
certain messages that are beingamplified to, and when we hear
something a lot and loudly, thenwe tend to um interpret that as
(49:57):
the most, you know, the mostwidespread or predominant
viewpoint.
And I question that how muchwhat we're seeing and what we're
hearing is an accuraterepresentation.
Because when we look atactually holes that show what
(50:18):
are the views, what are thevalues, what do most Americans
think, what do most US citizensthink, what do most Christians
think, I don't think that thenumbers are representative.
They're not matching thepreponderance of what we're
seeing and hearing thepreponderance of what we're
(50:39):
seeing and hearing, especiallywhen you look at how algorithms
are influencing even what yousee in a news feed or what you
see in your social media feedRight.
So I mean we're almost circlingback to that earlier question
of what are the sources of whereyou're really getting your
information, because it can skewyour perception and some people
(51:02):
, the people that are feelingisolated.
You know it's working.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
I mean I'll say it's working because people.
Speaker 3 (51:11):
I'm hearing a lot of people say like I feel like I'm
alone.
I feel like I'm the only onewho's you know looking around
and saying there's a problemwith this.
And that is not true.
So if you're feeling that way,you know, please take heart and
hope in the fact that that isnot true.
There are millions of peoplethat care.
(51:32):
I was on one call, oneorganizing call, that had 50,000
people registered for it at thebeginning of the hour, had
80,000 people registered for itby the end of that hour.
And that's just the people forone hour of time showing up
because they care.
Wow, so just you know.
(51:54):
Really, we don't know what'spossible if we hope and take
action, but we do know what'spossible if we don't.
Oh yes, so, please take heart,connect, look for the people
that care.
You know there are people andorganizations doing amazing work
(52:17):
, and that is where I draw somuch of my inspiration from.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
Oh man, what a wonderful way to end this
segment, in other words, themonsters are not as big as they
seem.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
Yes, my kids used to watch VeggieTales and just
forgive me for not being able tosing, but it it goes um, um.
God is bigger than theboogeyman, he's bigger than
godzilla or the monster is on tv, oh, wow, wow.
(52:56):
So yeah, that okay in my brainthat pops in because it's like
you.
You think that, um, wow, to doit by yourself.
You don't have to feel likeit's only you.
You can find, plug in, pluginto those organizations,
(53:23):
probably right in yourneighborhood that someone just
told me about, the Pauli Murray.
There's a Pauli Murraycommunity group here that I have
to plug into because, yeah,they're doing the work.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
So, anyway, this has been wonderful.
We're at the end.
Speaker 2 (53:45):
Thank you so much, Rebecca.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
Thank you for sharing this.
I'm encouraged, I'm inspired.
We're going to provide links toyour information and how people
can continue to know about thewonderful work that you're doing
, but I feel blessed to havespent this time with you.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
Thank you, rebecca.
Can you just mention yourworkshop, please, and we'll also
put links, but just mentionyour workshop and when it is,
and so on, please.
Speaker 3 (54:15):
Sure.
So right now there's a series ofthree, and then we'll see what
people need after that.
But we did the first one, as wewere talking about Angela this
past Wednesday, and that wasreally about how to protect
yourself through preventions,through being very intentional,
especially around the news, butcertainly applies to other areas
(54:37):
.
The next one is going to bearound understanding your own
unique nervous system responses,so really being able to tune
into the nuances of how yourthoughts and feelings and
physical sensations changedepending on what's going on
with your nervous system, sothat you can respond to it with
(54:59):
more understanding andcompassion rather than just
kicking yourself while you'redown.
And the third one will be onrecovery.
You know, when you findyourself in these states of
overwhelm, fight or flight,freeze like head in the sand.
You know how do you bringyourself back into a state of
(55:20):
calm, clear, connected, whereyou can problem solve, take
action, connect with your lovedones all of the good things of
functioning optimally that comefrom that place, so how to be
able to use what you understandabout yourself to recover more
quickly.
And each of them is obviouslyrelated to the others, but they
(55:43):
can also stand alone.
Yeah, yeah, if people haven'tcome to the first one.
That's okay and you know I havea, angela knows I did not
record the live one because thelive ones are a private, safe
space for people to come andparticipate and share and not
have to worry about where thatrecording is going afterwards.
(56:04):
But I had recorded just acontent piece from the first one
separately and so if people areinterested in that, by
registering they can also get acopy of that recording.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
Oh, that's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (56:18):
Thank you, Rebecca.
Well, thank you Highlyrecommended, highly recommended.
Speaker 2 (56:22):
Okay, guys, thank you for being a part of the episode
today.
We appreciate it.
And, yeah, take us out, les.
Speaker 1 (56:31):
So this has been another episode of Black Boomer
Besties from Brooklyn, brooklynBye.
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