April 22, 2025 • 40 mins
Angella and Leslie explore how our relationship with money evolves over time and how true wealth extends beyond financial success to include joy, freedom, and meaningful connections.
• Money as just one form of currency in our lives
• How entrepreneurship offers freedom beyond financial gain
• The shift in perspective that comes when basic financial needs are met
• Cultural expectations around money, especially for Black women
• Redefining generosity and learning to receive as well as give
• The tension between consumerism and finding contentment with less
• Finding value in emotional support, time, and care that money can't buy
We hope this conversation will cause you to think a little more deeply about what you're giving preeminence in your life, what you're expecting from others, and how to recognize the many forms of wealth that exist beyond one's bank account.
References mentioned in this episode:
Dr Kimani Norrington-Sands’ Job Liberation Summit
https://2025jobliberationsummit.heysummit.com/?ac=KmQBDvM5
FOLLOW BLACK BOOMER BESTIES FROM BROOKLYN
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Patreon:
https://patreon.com/user?u=83534204
Get Angie’s eBook: We’re Too Old for This Shit! The Inquisitive Older Woman’s Guide to Joy http://joystrategy.co/ebook
Visit Black Boomer Besties from Brooklyn website for behind-the-scenes extras.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey Ant, hey Les, How's it?
Speaker 2 (00:04):
going Going well Good .
What was the weather like upthere?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Oh still Wow, High 30s, low 40s in the mornings and
evenings.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I don't like that for you.
It snowed last week.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I showed you the six inches of snow we had in.
Massachusetts last weekend.
I could not believe it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I could not believe it.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Crazy Lloyd.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
It's balmy 70-something here in North
Kakalaki had a beautiful day.
It's so cool, I'm not listening, don't have to Anyway welcome
the people.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Hey, welcome to another episode of Black Boomer
Besties from Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Brooklyn.
I'm Angella and that's Leslie,my best friend of almost 50
years.
We are two free thinking, freethinking power to the people
Black Boomers and we are here totalk about the stuff that comes
up during our days that we givedeep, deep, deep thinking to.
(01:15):
It may be joyful things, it maybe things that are pet peeves,
it may be things that are justkind of we're curious about, but
it's always entertaining andalways something that you can
learn from.
So we're going to be talkingabout money, money, money, money
, money, money, money, money,money.
(01:39):
We're going to be talking aboutmoney and different views on
money that we have now, that weused used to have, that we
currently have, and how thatkind of shows up in our lives
because it has come up.
It actually came up today.
Today I was interviewed for anew podcast that a friend of
(02:02):
mine actually, he is now afriend.
He's a friend to her, he's afriend and a mentor.
He was someone, gerard Staten,who was one of my early
entrepreneurial mentors, afantastic guy and he has a new
podcast called Staten.
The Obvious, isn't that?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
good, oh, that's cute , that's clever, I know.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So he asked if I could be a guest and I went and
we recorded today and one of thethings that I talked about that
I had already warned him that Iwould talk about is kind of a
new the perspective that I haveabout entrepreneurship.
That is really, I think,uncommon, because people talk
(02:50):
about money a lot.
When they're talking aboutentrepreneurship, you know
making money, hitting it big,doing all the things, and that's
an important aspect of it,aspect of it.
But I should say, and one ofthe things that entrepreneurship
(03:12):
has really meant to me isfreedom, is liberation, it's joy
, it's deciding who to be incommunity with, deciding who to
serve, and all that.
But, it really got me thinkingabout this idea of money and how
money has changed, how myrelationship with money has
changed in some ways, in prettysignificant ways over time, to
(03:35):
where I am now.
And just Leslie and I have kindof some different perspectives
about money, about consumerism,about this is not like a one is
good, one is bad.
It's nothing like that at all.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
It's way more nuanced than that.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Look at you with the nuanced.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Okay, I see that's what we do, and I raise you no,
but it is more nuanced than that.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
And you know, I was with another friend this past
week and we're doing shoppingand you know shopping is not
something that I enjoy, but myfriend and this friend here,
leslie, they love shopping, theylove shopping, they love
shopping.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I love shopping.
I'd say I enjoy it.
It's up there on my list.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Okay, top five things .
Would it be up there?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
But also laundry and grocery shopping would be on
that list too.
Grocery shopping, yeah yeahyeah, I enjoy enjoy it I don't
like it.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I don't think I ever did I.
There were times when I wasokay with shopping, but whenever
I'm doing kind of big, bigshopping, I go and spend time
with leslie and do shopping withher, because it's just not
something.
Yeah, I don't like you knowkind of so anyway, we're going
to be talking about money andwhat it means, and a little bit
(05:13):
about consumerism and how youguys feel about that and some
decisions that we've made aboutwhere to spend our money, where
not to spend our money and thosetypes of things.
So it's kind of a broad moneytopic but I think uncommon in
the way that we approach it.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Now what I thought when you said it came up today.
I knew you did the podcast andI kind of forgot about the
content, but you and I hadprobably a good 45-minute
telephone conversation and itwas intense.
And it was intense to the pointwhere here my bestie texted me
(05:53):
after and said I hope I wasn'ttoo harsh with you, I said yes,
you were, but I forgive youbecause you know everybody can.
What did I tell you?
But, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
All I read is you forgive me and I moved on.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, that too, and you can decide, I'm not going to
.
I didn't want to kind of bringthat up because I, you know, I
know you didn't want me to getangry with you.
I didn't want to put you in aposition that made you
uncomfortable, because I alreadyfelt like I made you
uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I see.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
I didn't want to do that, but I'm open to talking
about it and.
I've kind of lowered my angstaround it.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
So go ahead.
So the bottom line about thatwas that one of the things that
you all know about ourrelationship is that Ange pushes
me to think beyond a certain uphere.
So if my thinking about anissue is here, she often will
elevate it and say consider this, it's almost like what I am to
(07:12):
other people also, some peoplemay call it a contrarian or
whatever, but I like exploringother.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
So when we were speaking about a particular
money issue, involving anotherperson, actually, and I gave my
own ideas about it, she saidwell, have you considered this?
And I don't think that youshould look at it this way, and
this and et cetera, and one ofthe things you might do, Les.
(07:44):
You see, now I'm getting intoit.
I don't know if this is whatactually happened, but this is
what it felt like.
You always do such and such andI'm tired of you doing this and
you need to.
No, that's not.
I didn't feel that way.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
No, no, it was more listen and this this is.
You know you guys have really,if you've been with us for any
length of time, you understandjust how incredible our
friendship is, and we've neverhad any real like any kind of
(08:23):
lasting conflict in ourfriendship because we trust each
other and we're willing to talkto each other about things.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
And so what I said, and we give each other grace.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
We do a lot of grace, leslie, is that you know, kind
of her way of seeing thesituation was understandable,
but she's better than that.
And I want her to be betterthan that I want her.
To be more broad in looking atthe different ways, the
(09:00):
different things that could bebehind, and so not you see
someone in a situation why youknow it's like it could be like
a zillion reasons why.
And so anyway, I'm gonna letyou decide, now or later,
whether you want to talk aboutit.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
How she led it was that she pointed to me that my
stance was not only beingjudgmental, but I was likely
missing the whole picture andthen zooming in on a particular
aspect.
So she expanded it and Iconsidered it.
I understood what she meant.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
And I think the part of it too and why this ties to
money.
You know, money was the core ofkind of the triggering part of
the conversation, but it wasactually kind of bigger than
that.
It was like what do we value,and what do we value more than
money, or what do we value lessthan money?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
That's how it came.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
It's that kind of thing, yes yes, like you're
saying these things about thisperson that are so high ticket,
so high value, but they havethese money issues and it's like
, and that I'm like wait aminute, do those?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
things.
So why are you giving moreweight to their lack of money or
the reasons?
Behind their mismanagement, andI'm not saying they do or
managing Right came up and it'slike you know what there are no
accidents in this conversation,you know there's a reason why
(10:47):
we're talking about it in thisway.
So yeah.
So tell me about your views onyour entrepreneurial journey,
because at the time when youleft corporate, you obviously,
when you left corporate, youobviously, you know, took a
substantial pay cut.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
And you seem to be okay with that.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I was a little, but yeah, Well, you know it's that
you have to invest in anythingthat you're building.
There's an investment time.
It's like, you know, whateveryou invest in R&D and then you
hope to recoup the money right,real estate or whatever you
invest you fix up and then youhope that after a year there's a
(11:34):
break even and then, beyondthat, it's money in the bank.
And so there's that.
There's, there's that um, butone of the things that I talked
about on um the podcast, and Idon't know what is going to be
left in.
I won't talk too much about it,um, I don't know what's going
(11:54):
to be edited out or whatever,but I talked about how, um, at
the end of every year, I wouldkind of assess okay, this is
where you are right now.
Are you going to stay in this?
Are you going to look at themoney, look at all the things
you need to look at, look at thegoals that you had in terms of
(12:16):
aligning your work with yourvalues you know, being a role
model to my children, that theyhave other options and at the
end of every year, I would kindof look at that and decide
whether I was going to go backto getting a paycheck from
someone else or stay in thisentrepreneurial thing and one of
(12:42):
the reasons that made me staybeyond being stubborn and not
just I have never learned how tofail.
Okay, what do I mean by that?
(13:02):
I know how to pivot.
I know how to fail.
Okay, what do I mean by that?
I know how to pivot.
I know how to make life Mm-hmm,mm-hmm.
I know.
If there's an obstacle in frontof me, I find ways to get
around it.
And we're not going to go intothe whole failure thing.
That's another conversationbecause it is a deep and
(13:23):
revealing topic.
But I had reached a point whereI just I trusted myself so much
and trusted where God wastaking me so much.
I couldn't not trust myself.
I didn't know how to do that.
I didn't know how to say okay,this is working and this will
(13:47):
never work.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
You know, this isn't working.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
This will never work.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
You mentioned faith, but also that's your character
and your personality, and Ithink both of us have that type
of mindset where we don't lookat it as failure or wasted time
or something like that.
I mean we are able to extracteducation and learning from all
of our experiences fromentrepreneurship from work life,
(14:15):
from professionalism, fromrelationships, all of those
things.
So, you also have that abilityto pivot from one, so you don't
look at it as failure.
Oh, I wasted my time, orwhatever.
If it requires some type ofchange or altering or what have
you, you don't angst about that.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Or I don't angst to the point of, you know, throwing
my hands up and going under arock and yeah, yeah, you don't
get under a cover with yourthumb in your mouth.
But here's where it ties tomoney, right, and where I see
money.
Now I see and let's just talkabout money, not kind of the
(15:07):
value of money and what moneybrings you, just kind of really
basic money and joy being nottied to money, money and then
joy, and then family, whatever,right, let's talk about money
(15:31):
started to realize is that therewas so much more that I was
gaining from staying in theentrepreneur lane than the money
that I was earning.
There was so much more aboutchoice, about you guys know, we
(15:51):
talk about joy all the time,about joy and how I was being
led so much towards joy.
That those things started tohave a higher rank for me than
what my P&L said, because of allthe ways that I was growing as
(16:13):
a person by being anentrepreneur and trying new
things and thinking about who Iwanted to serve and how I wanted
to serve them and what were mycommitments and how was I
finding or being in community,and all of those things just
started to edge up over whateverthat financial bottom line was
(16:36):
and so I started to kind of, andthere was a lot of worry about
the money part.
I figured yeah, yeah, I mean,that was real.
What I'm saying is that Istarted to shift and stop
thinking that if you didn't makethis much, then you failed,
(17:00):
because there was so much I wasgaining.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I get it, I get it Right.
And so much of that difficultycomes and it's countercultural.
I get it, I get it Right, youknow so, and so much of that
difficulty comes in it's it'scountercultural.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's certainly countercultural,being from the Caribbean.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Right, which is one thing, but also it's, it's like
you mean you only you don't havefive jobs.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yes, yeah, but it's also anti-American thought in a
way.
You know it's like you know, soyou get it from both ends.
You know, we have a friend whoyou know, if, if she, if, if she
, if they know that you're doinga particular thing, it's like
okay, but how much is that?
How much are you going to getfrom that Are?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
they paying you?
Is it this or whatever you know?
Speaker 1 (17:40):
discounting the non-monetary or non-financial
gains that may come in thatrespect you know, so we look at,
well, what do you do?
And then what does it produce?
And very often I had theoccasion where someone asked me
recently, you know what do youdo?
(18:00):
And what I could have said isyou know, I bring ease to people
at a time of great anxiety.
Go ahead, liz.
You know, go ahead.
Okay, I'm really ananesthesiologist and she would.
You know, I bring ease.
It's like what are you somekind of guru?
I remove people's pain,whatever.
(18:23):
You know, what are you?
Sprinkle some fairy?
No, I just push the propofol Inthe right place.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but again.
So, in addition to dealing withthe entrepreneurship, you also
have to deal with some of theexternal inputs that come your
(18:43):
way when you know you're muckingup against.
Am I enough?
Am I is?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
this.
Oh, all of that stuff, all ofthat stuff and one of the really
I can't say the word enough.
One of the joyful things aboutmy life now is where.
Oh you want to talk about meright now not yet not yet, okay,
(19:12):
okay she can't help herself.
Um, is that I am so content withwhat I have I'm, I'm so like,
and it has nothing to do withambition.
(19:33):
It has nothing to do withfeeling.
You know like.
You know what you don't wantmore you don't.
This is not enough.
I am in such a place of like Idon't want to.
I'm very judicious about what Ibuy, because I'm thinking about
(19:53):
if I buy this thing, I have toknow where I'm going to store it
and I'm planning to move.
Do I need?
another box for this new stuffthat I'm trying to get rid of,
stuff.
I'm not trying to buy stuffLike we were talking the other
day about, because you know wehave a high school reunion
coming up, right.
(20:14):
And so Leslie, miss Planner isweeks ago, she's starting to
plan her outfit.
I have to, you know, right.
And so she's like, ok, I'mgoing to buy these things.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
And, by the way, another thing about Les it
doesn't matter whether it'sonline or whatever.
You're giving away all oursecrets, hold on All my secrets?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
What if it was private?
This is not private.
Ok, she is someone that shewill.
She doesn't really like to trythings on.
I never try things on in thedressing room, right?
She'll buy all the things andthen try it on at home and, you
know, put it on with stuff thatshe has.
It makes total sense.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yes, I buy two sizes Plus she loves to shop.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Whatever, did I mention that part?
She loves to shop and so she'splanning these outfits and you
know she's kind of reallyenjoying the process and me, on
the other hand, she Ange whatare you wearing?
Speaker 1 (21:17):
What are you wearing?
And then the music stopped.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
So I took a little trip and she's like well, maybe
when you're there you can dosome shopping.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Well, the reason I pushed you one, because it's not
a natural thing that you runtoward.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
And I appreciate it so much.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Who is going to pay, with the angst that you come
with when you can't findanything to wear, or you know
when, oh, I don't like the way Ilook.
And then you know the school.
It's like I know how this.
I've seen this movie before, soI'm just saying plan early.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
You don't know me, leslie, you don't know me.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
You know, start early , you know.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
But all I'm thinking about is do I need this?
It's something else that I'mbringing home.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
You know what I mean and I don't know.
It's this whole thing aboutspending and buying.
And then you kind ofsuperimpose that with some of
the decisions that you and I andmany other people have made
(22:29):
around where to spend our money,um, where we're not gonna spend
our money, and all that stuff.
It's just kind of um, I don'tknow.
Money is such a.
What did you say to me theother the other day?
You said um, you said ang, theonly people who, the only people
(22:52):
who worry about money are thepeople who don't have it okay,
let me explain okay, I mean,that's almost like captain
obvious, but go ahead but,because there's a corollary to
that too, okay, you say it.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
What's a corollary to that too?
Okay, you say it.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
What's the corollary to that?
Speaker 1 (23:10):
What I've always said is that and you know I come
from modest means for sure youknow and I've only, you know,
been financially comfortable.
You know, in my recent adultyears I would say.
But, you know, growing up andin my early years you know, 20
(23:35):
something or whatever, earlyadult years I'd say I always
thought that I should have moremoney, that I need more money in
order to do this.
And obviously it makes sense,you need to eat and pay your
rent.
But it was only until I madeenough money that I realized
(23:56):
that money ain't everything.
In fact, money's not a lot ofthings.
Right, right, you know, but whocan you tell that to?
You can only have thatconversation with someone who
has enough money.
And then it is that we realizethat you know what Connection.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Love.
Right, you know I mean peopleknow that I've recently divorced
.
It's like the money didn't saveus you know.
So once you have money, it'slike okay, now the work begins.
(24:44):
You know that it breaks uprelationships.
That's not what broke up myrelationship, but it can come in
between relationships and stuff, but it's only when you get
past the point of lack, do youstart thinking that, wow, okay,
what else is there now?
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, yeah, and I was thinking about the situation
that I was in when you said that, and I'm like you know, leslie,
you are so right.
What happened was I was invitedto take a trip with a new
friend and they were going topay for the trip and I hesitated
(25:29):
.
You know, I don't know if Ishould do this because my money
is kind of geared towards mymoving abroad and this it would
have been a significant amountof money and this person offered
and you know it's like you're,you're, you're taught to that
(25:57):
money is the thing to hold most,most precious, do you know?
me like somebody could give youtheir time.
Yes, they could give you theirlove.
They could give you their gooddown home footing at cooking,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
But when they give you their money, yeah, that's a
big deal if they give you theirmoney.
It becomes so much bigger yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
So much more.
And so when Leslie said, youknow, and money is just an issue
with people, don't have it.
One of the first things Ithought of is that I had done
the same thing many years ago.
Same thing.
I was flowing in the dough andI'm like listen, I want you to
(26:41):
be where I am, don't worry aboutit, just carve out the time,
here's how to get here, type ofthing.
And I've done that and I feltthe same thing.
It's like why there's noobstacle here?
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Money is not in the way of us getting what we want.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
So why are we making it get in the way Right?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
And you and I have had these talks over the years
too.
It's like if I want to go onvacation, of course, over the
years too, you know, it's likeif I want to go on vacation of
course I want to go with mybestie, so here's the tickets.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Let's go.
I know.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
You know, let's go.
And we go, amazing times, Iremember that one time you said
you know I need to talk to youabout something.
Do you remember that I?
Do we were in a hotel in NewYork.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I believe, yeah, it was a ooh, it was a ooh, it was
ooh.
But anyway, because that's whatwe do.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Didn't we have a great weekend then?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
But anyway, oh my gosh.
It was beautiful.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Fly out the museum.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Afrofuturism.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
It was just an amazing weekend yeah, we had a
great weekend.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
We went to a dance performance.
It was an amazing weekend.
Yes, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Sorry, it was amazing , but you said, you know like I
feel a little funny about themoney that you spend and this,
and I'm, like you know, at thisstage in my life I thank God
that money doesn't have the samemeaning for me that it does for
many people and the experiencesand the way that I use money as
(28:12):
a tool for joy, togetherness,happiness and stuff like that.
That's why, in my opinion, I'mvery generous and I give freely.
For a few reasons.
One, because it makes me sohappy to see people I love and
adore enjoy some of the thingsthat I enjoy regularly.
(28:33):
But not only that I am thefirst to tell folks that I stand
on the shoulders of giants andthe reason that I am able to
have the things that I have andI absolutely did not do this by
myself.
This lady right here has beenso supportive of my journey into
(28:57):
medicine and into whatever youknow.
My family has been sosupportive and I could not have
done it without those people whoI tried to take care of now.
So we've all.
This journey is for everybodyyou know, this journey.
So how dare you say you know Ishouldn't spend you know money.
(29:17):
You know I'm not going to beeating cat food.
You know if we go away for theweekend.
So you know what I mean.
I'm just I'm being flippantabout it, yeah, but I really
just look at money a little bitdifferently than some people do
Right and it's a blessing.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
It is.
It is a blessing and I'll tellyou from my side, some of the
shifts that I have to, I haveforced myself to make and it's
becoming easier and easier is tosee how my generosity, in
(30:00):
whatever form it comes in, alsohas huge value.
It's currency, right.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
It's currency, it's currency, and so it's kind of so
.
It's not a one-sided thing,right?
It's currency, it's currency,and so it's kind of so it's not
a one-sided thing that.
Leslie is doing all or whatever.
No, we all bring currency torelationships.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Right, right, and so it's kind of it's breaking the
idea of this thing has morevalue than this thing, right?
If someone gives you money, ithas more value than you giving
someone your time.
You giving someone, yourcounsel, you giving someone,
(30:44):
your, whatever your cooking orwhichever way that you show love
to someone else.
So I literally have to breakthis.
Yes, and it's a part of mytraining to say yes to things,
but Ange, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
The culture that we've, the waters that we've
been swimming in, that we'vebeen swimming in.
I was raised that you know yourpartner is supposed to make
more money than you are, issupposed to take care of you
financially.
And it wasn't really drummedinto me that providing love,
(31:24):
companionship, social andemotional support was as
important as what can they dofor you financially, so whether
it was a forward-thinkingthought or not, it was in there
(31:44):
somewhere that I married aphysician Before you became one.
Yeah, yeah, and you know,because it was like that was the
vision or the view of thethings that were important.
So we acquired the white picketfence and the house on the
corner and the multiple cars andthe this and that and whatever.
And then when you have thosethings, when now you can pay all
(32:06):
your bills on time.
Do you start about?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
it's like well what does my heart feel like?
Speaker 1 (32:14):
You know, does this person really know, or feed my
soul, or you know?
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I would just go, are my feet?
Speaker 1 (32:25):
getting rubbed and then, after decades of that,
that's when it turned and Irealized that, wait a minute,
you know the bank accounts orthe material things.
It's still not filling thathole.
That's there, right?
(32:46):
Yeah, you know.
And yeah, this money thing man.
It's crazy, it's crazy becausejust think of it this way.
Now I'm going to bring inanother thing my current love.
He does not make as much moneyas I do, as I do, but he brings
(33:16):
so much more currency to therelationship.
So he doesn't bring the dollarsto the relationship, but he
brings so much more than I do,in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
You know what I mean From the nurturing, from the
cooking to the supportive orwhatever.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
I was on call last night and after getting home at
1.15 in the morning, my phonerings again in a half hour and I
had to go back into thehospital after 2 am and we were
speaking on the phone.
And we were speaking on thephone and he says you know, if I
were there I would drive youthere and just wait for you with
(33:55):
my iPad in the waiting room.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
You know while.
I'm in the OR working.
Yeah, you know, just to makesure that I'm driving safely and
not tired or whatever it's like.
Who can put a price on?
Something like that.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Absolutely yeah, or whatever it's like.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Who can put a price on something like that?
Absolutely yeah, but as a young, you know Black woman growing
up, these are not the thingsthat I was taught were the most
important things you know.
Coming from a mom who was asingle parent and often had, you
know, financial difficulties atsome points, you know obviously
(34:36):
she wants her children to befinancially stable and well
cared for.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
And we look at that through the dollar sign lens.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
It's a whole retraining.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
that it really is.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
It really is we have to do yeah.
And then what subliminalmessages are we leaving to our
children and offspring?
And things like that.
You know you got to do this.
This is the path, and I know Ifall, I'm guilty of that too.
This is the path that you go.
So you go to school, you gostraight no deviations in this
(35:15):
and then you get this.
Then you get the good job, andthen you stay at the good job
until you know.
Leave early, retire early, gointo personal entrepreneurship.
Who does that?
You know, leave your good job.
And whatever I sound like, ourfriend Dr Kamani, you know your
good job.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
By the way.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
the Job Liberation Summit is coming up.
The Job Liberation Summit, soyou?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
guys, make sure we'll put a link.
What are the dates?
Do you have them, les?
I think it's the 16th, may 16thto May 18th.
Yeah, so it's the 16th May 16thto May 18th.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yeah.
So it's a virtual summit andshe is an expert in toxic jobs
and showing people that there isa way out of that situation.
Obviously, it's like how am Igoing to support myself?
What am I going to do?
But I got a pension, I got a401k, I got kids and this it's
like calm down, we got you wehave some good information for
(36:16):
you, so yeah, yeah that's drkimani's dr kimani yeah, um.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
So yeah, it's um, it's been, it's been a journey
um.
I'm so grateful that you knowI've had that big house on the
hill.
Yeah, I've recognized that.
(36:42):
I don't want that anymore.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
That's not, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
It's like no, no, been there, done that there are
other things.
You know what I mean, and Iguess this is what happens when
you get to a certain age atnight, that you've had all these
experiences and you can kind oftease out what you want to keep
from them and what you want toset aside, I mean because, if
(37:07):
nothing else, you startremembering.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Well, when was it when my heart felt the most
content and when did I feel themost joy?
Was it?
sitting in my beautiful backyardlooking at the koi pond and
this and that it was beautiful.
But no, yeah, you know, but no,I'm living smaller and I'm
(37:47):
welcoming that.
But yeah, I really think thatthis stage of our lives, if this
is the last stage of our livesor however direction we're going
in, I love the fact that we arereally starting to weed out the
mess and the things that ispassing the passing the is it
(38:10):
important?
test correct you know, is ittrue just like you called me on
it when I, when I said you knowcomplaining about it, she's like
, well, les, is it really true?
Think about this, or whatever.
Yeah, woe to those folks thatdon't check themselves, not the
woe to Leslie.
(38:35):
But you know it's like yeah youknow, you know you need that.
Who was it that said somethingabout an unexamined life?
Yes, yeah, yeah, it's true.
I mean, for goodness sake, Iknow many elders and elderly
(38:55):
people that are living in thesame way, that they've lived,
with the same mindsets thatthey've lived in their 20s and
30s, and the problem with thatis that they're encountering the
same difficulties that they'vehad all their lives They've not
been able to emancipatethemselves from that Emancipate
yourselves from mental slavery.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
None but ourselves can free our minds.
Okay, that's all the Bob youwill hear from me tonight.
I think, I have a soundtrackplaying in my head all the time.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Yeah, Anyway.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah, so we hope this conversation will cause you to
think a little more deeply, tojust examine these things.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
You know, what are you kind of giving preeminence
in?
Speaker 2 (39:45):
your life, of giving preeminence in your life, what
are you kind of expecting fromothers, and things like that.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Touching on some of the things that we talked about
here.
That's why we come to you everyweek, so this has been another
episode of Black Boomer Bestiesfrom Brooklyn.
I'll drink to that.
Hey Ant, hey Les, How's it?
Speaker 2 (00:04):
going Going well Good .
What was the weather like upthere?
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Oh still Wow, High 30s, low 40s in the mornings and
evenings.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I don't like that for you.
It snowed last week.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I showed you the six inches of snow we had in.
Massachusetts last weekend.
I could not believe it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
I could not believe it.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Crazy Lloyd.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
It's balmy 70-something here in North
Kakalaki had a beautiful day.
It's so cool, I'm not listening, don't have to Anyway welcome
the people.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Hey, welcome to another episode of Black Boomer
Besties from Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Brooklyn.
I'm Angella and that's Leslie,my best friend of almost 50
years.
We are two free thinking, freethinking power to the people
Black Boomers and we are here totalk about the stuff that comes
up during our days that we givedeep, deep, deep thinking to.
(01:15):
It may be joyful things, it maybe things that are pet peeves,
it may be things that are justkind of we're curious about, but
it's always entertaining andalways something that you can
learn from.
So we're going to be talkingabout money, money, money, money
, money, money, money, money,money.
(01:39):
We're going to be talking aboutmoney and different views on
money that we have now, that weused used to have, that we
currently have, and how thatkind of shows up in our lives
because it has come up.
It actually came up today.
Today I was interviewed for anew podcast that a friend of
(02:02):
mine actually, he is now afriend.
He's a friend to her, he's afriend and a mentor.
He was someone, gerard Staten,who was one of my early
entrepreneurial mentors, afantastic guy and he has a new
podcast called Staten.
The Obvious, isn't that?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
good, oh, that's cute , that's clever, I know.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So he asked if I could be a guest and I went and
we recorded today and one of thethings that I talked about that
I had already warned him that Iwould talk about is kind of a
new the perspective that I haveabout entrepreneurship.
That is really, I think,uncommon, because people talk
(02:50):
about money a lot.
When they're talking aboutentrepreneurship, you know
making money, hitting it big,doing all the things, and that's
an important aspect of it,aspect of it.
But I should say, and one ofthe things that entrepreneurship
(03:12):
has really meant to me isfreedom, is liberation, it's joy
, it's deciding who to be incommunity with, deciding who to
serve, and all that.
But, it really got me thinkingabout this idea of money and how
money has changed, how myrelationship with money has
changed in some ways, in prettysignificant ways over time, to
(03:35):
where I am now.
And just Leslie and I have kindof some different perspectives
about money, about consumerism,about this is not like a one is
good, one is bad.
It's nothing like that at all.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
It's way more nuanced than that.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Look at you with the nuanced.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Okay, I see that's what we do, and I raise you no,
but it is more nuanced than that.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
And you know, I was with another friend this past
week and we're doing shoppingand you know shopping is not
something that I enjoy, but myfriend and this friend here,
leslie, they love shopping, theylove shopping, they love
shopping.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I love shopping.
I'd say I enjoy it.
It's up there on my list.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Okay, top five things .
Would it be up there?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
But also laundry and grocery shopping would be on
that list too.
Grocery shopping, yeah yeahyeah, I enjoy enjoy it I don't
like it.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I don't think I ever did I.
There were times when I wasokay with shopping, but whenever
I'm doing kind of big, bigshopping, I go and spend time
with leslie and do shopping withher, because it's just not
something.
Yeah, I don't like you knowkind of so anyway, we're going
to be talking about money andwhat it means, and a little bit
(05:13):
about consumerism and how youguys feel about that and some
decisions that we've made aboutwhere to spend our money, where
not to spend our money and thosetypes of things.
So it's kind of a broad moneytopic but I think uncommon in
the way that we approach it.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Now what I thought when you said it came up today.
I knew you did the podcast andI kind of forgot about the
content, but you and I hadprobably a good 45-minute
telephone conversation and itwas intense.
And it was intense to the pointwhere here my bestie texted me
(05:53):
after and said I hope I wasn'ttoo harsh with you, I said yes,
you were, but I forgive youbecause you know everybody can.
What did I tell you?
But, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
All I read is you forgive me and I moved on.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, that too, and you can decide, I'm not going to
.
I didn't want to kind of bringthat up because I, you know, I
know you didn't want me to getangry with you.
I didn't want to put you in aposition that made you
uncomfortable, because I alreadyfelt like I made you
uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I see.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
I didn't want to do that, but I'm open to talking
about it and.
I've kind of lowered my angstaround it.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
So go ahead.
So the bottom line about thatwas that one of the things that
you all know about ourrelationship is that Ange pushes
me to think beyond a certain uphere.
So if my thinking about anissue is here, she often will
elevate it and say consider this, it's almost like what I am to
(07:12):
other people also, some peoplemay call it a contrarian or
whatever, but I like exploringother.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
So when we were speaking about a particular
money issue, involving anotherperson, actually, and I gave my
own ideas about it, she saidwell, have you considered this?
And I don't think that youshould look at it this way, and
this and et cetera, and one ofthe things you might do, Les.
(07:44):
You see, now I'm getting intoit.
I don't know if this is whatactually happened, but this is
what it felt like.
You always do such and such andI'm tired of you doing this and
you need to.
No, that's not.
I didn't feel that way.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
No, no, it was more listen and this this is.
You know you guys have really,if you've been with us for any
length of time, you understandjust how incredible our
friendship is, and we've neverhad any real like any kind of
(08:23):
lasting conflict in ourfriendship because we trust each
other and we're willing to talkto each other about things.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
And so what I said, and we give each other grace.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
We do a lot of grace, leslie, is that you know, kind
of her way of seeing thesituation was understandable,
but she's better than that.
And I want her to be betterthan that I want her.
To be more broad in looking atthe different ways, the
(09:00):
different things that could bebehind, and so not you see
someone in a situation why youknow it's like it could be like
a zillion reasons why.
And so anyway, I'm gonna letyou decide, now or later,
whether you want to talk aboutit.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
How she led it was that she pointed to me that my
stance was not only beingjudgmental, but I was likely
missing the whole picture andthen zooming in on a particular
aspect.
So she expanded it and Iconsidered it.
I understood what she meant.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
And I think the part of it too and why this ties to
money.
You know, money was the core ofkind of the triggering part of
the conversation, but it wasactually kind of bigger than
that.
It was like what do we value,and what do we value more than
money, or what do we value lessthan money?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
That's how it came.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
It's that kind of thing, yes yes, like you're
saying these things about thisperson that are so high ticket,
so high value, but they havethese money issues and it's like
, and that I'm like wait aminute, do those?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
things.
So why are you giving moreweight to their lack of money or
the reasons?
Behind their mismanagement, andI'm not saying they do or
managing Right came up and it'slike you know what there are no
accidents in this conversation,you know there's a reason why
(10:47):
we're talking about it in thisway.
So yeah.
So tell me about your views onyour entrepreneurial journey,
because at the time when youleft corporate, you obviously,
when you left corporate, youobviously, you know, took a
substantial pay cut.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
And you seem to be okay with that.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I was a little, but yeah, Well, you know it's that
you have to invest in anythingthat you're building.
There's an investment time.
It's like, you know, whateveryou invest in R&D and then you
hope to recoup the money right,real estate or whatever you
invest you fix up and then youhope that after a year there's a
(11:34):
break even and then, beyondthat, it's money in the bank.
And so there's that.
There's, there's that um, butone of the things that I talked
about on um the podcast, and Idon't know what is going to be
left in.
I won't talk too much about it,um, I don't know what's going
(11:54):
to be edited out or whatever,but I talked about how, um, at
the end of every year, I wouldkind of assess okay, this is
where you are right now.
Are you going to stay in this?
Are you going to look at themoney, look at all the things
you need to look at, look at thegoals that you had in terms of
(12:16):
aligning your work with yourvalues you know, being a role
model to my children, that theyhave other options and at the
end of every year, I would kindof look at that and decide
whether I was going to go backto getting a paycheck from
someone else or stay in thisentrepreneurial thing and one of
(12:42):
the reasons that made me staybeyond being stubborn and not
just I have never learned how tofail.
Okay, what do I mean by that?
(13:02):
I know how to pivot.
I know how to fail.
Okay, what do I mean by that?
I know how to pivot.
I know how to make life Mm-hmm,mm-hmm.
I know.
If there's an obstacle in frontof me, I find ways to get
around it.
And we're not going to go intothe whole failure thing.
That's another conversationbecause it is a deep and
(13:23):
revealing topic.
But I had reached a point whereI just I trusted myself so much
and trusted where God wastaking me so much.
I couldn't not trust myself.
I didn't know how to do that.
I didn't know how to say okay,this is working and this will
(13:47):
never work.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
You know, this isn't working.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
This will never work.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
You mentioned faith, but also that's your character
and your personality, and Ithink both of us have that type
of mindset where we don't lookat it as failure or wasted time
or something like that.
I mean we are able to extracteducation and learning from all
of our experiences fromentrepreneurship from work life,
(14:15):
from professionalism, fromrelationships, all of those
things.
So, you also have that abilityto pivot from one, so you don't
look at it as failure.
Oh, I wasted my time, orwhatever.
If it requires some type ofchange or altering or what have
you, you don't angst about that.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Or I don't angst to the point of, you know, throwing
my hands up and going under arock and yeah, yeah, you don't
get under a cover with yourthumb in your mouth.
But here's where it ties tomoney, right, and where I see
money.
Now I see and let's just talkabout money, not kind of the
(15:07):
value of money and what moneybrings you, just kind of really
basic money and joy being nottied to money, money and then
joy, and then family, whatever,right, let's talk about money
(15:31):
started to realize is that therewas so much more that I was
gaining from staying in theentrepreneur lane than the money
that I was earning.
There was so much more aboutchoice, about you guys know, we
(15:51):
talk about joy all the time,about joy and how I was being
led so much towards joy.
That those things started tohave a higher rank for me than
what my P&L said, because of allthe ways that I was growing as
(16:13):
a person by being anentrepreneur and trying new
things and thinking about who Iwanted to serve and how I wanted
to serve them and what were mycommitments and how was I
finding or being in community,and all of those things just
started to edge up over whateverthat financial bottom line was
(16:36):
and so I started to kind of, andthere was a lot of worry about
the money part.
I figured yeah, yeah, I mean,that was real.
What I'm saying is that Istarted to shift and stop
thinking that if you didn't makethis much, then you failed,
(17:00):
because there was so much I wasgaining.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
I get it, I get it Right.
And so much of that difficultycomes and it's countercultural.
I get it, I get it Right, youknow so, and so much of that
difficulty comes in it's it'scountercultural.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's certainly countercultural,being from the Caribbean.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Right, which is one thing, but also it's, it's like
you mean you only you don't havefive jobs.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yes, yeah, but it's also anti-American thought in a
way.
You know it's like you know, soyou get it from both ends.
You know, we have a friend whoyou know, if, if she, if, if she
, if they know that you're doinga particular thing, it's like
okay, but how much is that?
How much are you going to getfrom that Are?
Speaker 2 (17:37):
they paying you?
Is it this or whatever you know?
Speaker 1 (17:40):
discounting the non-monetary or non-financial
gains that may come in thatrespect you know, so we look at,
well, what do you do?
And then what does it produce?
And very often I had theoccasion where someone asked me
recently, you know what do youdo?
(18:00):
And what I could have said isyou know, I bring ease to people
at a time of great anxiety.
Go ahead, liz.
You know, go ahead.
Okay, I'm really ananesthesiologist and she would.
You know, I bring ease.
It's like what are you somekind of guru?
I remove people's pain,whatever.
(18:23):
You know, what are you?
Sprinkle some fairy?
No, I just push the propofol Inthe right place.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but again.
So, in addition to dealing withthe entrepreneurship, you also
have to deal with some of theexternal inputs that come your
(18:43):
way when you know you're muckingup against.
Am I enough?
Am I is?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
this.
Oh, all of that stuff, all ofthat stuff and one of the really
I can't say the word enough.
One of the joyful things aboutmy life now is where.
Oh you want to talk about meright now not yet not yet, okay,
(19:12):
okay she can't help herself.
Um, is that I am so content withwhat I have I'm, I'm so like,
and it has nothing to do withambition.
(19:33):
It has nothing to do withfeeling.
You know like.
You know what you don't wantmore you don't.
This is not enough.
I am in such a place of like Idon't want to.
I'm very judicious about what Ibuy, because I'm thinking about
(19:53):
if I buy this thing, I have toknow where I'm going to store it
and I'm planning to move.
Do I need?
another box for this new stuffthat I'm trying to get rid of,
stuff.
I'm not trying to buy stuffLike we were talking the other
day about, because you know wehave a high school reunion
coming up, right.
(20:14):
And so Leslie, miss Planner isweeks ago, she's starting to
plan her outfit.
I have to, you know, right.
And so she's like, ok, I'mgoing to buy these things.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
And, by the way, another thing about Les it
doesn't matter whether it'sonline or whatever.
You're giving away all oursecrets, hold on All my secrets?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
What if it was private?
This is not private.
Ok, she is someone that shewill.
She doesn't really like to trythings on.
I never try things on in thedressing room, right?
She'll buy all the things andthen try it on at home and, you
know, put it on with stuff thatshe has.
It makes total sense.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yes, I buy two sizes Plus she loves to shop.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Whatever, did I mention that part?
She loves to shop and so she'splanning these outfits and you
know she's kind of reallyenjoying the process and me, on
the other hand, she Ange whatare you wearing?
Speaker 1 (21:17):
What are you wearing?
And then the music stopped.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
So I took a little trip and she's like well, maybe
when you're there you can dosome shopping.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Well, the reason I pushed you one, because it's not
a natural thing that you runtoward.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
And I appreciate it so much.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Who is going to pay, with the angst that you come
with when you can't findanything to wear, or you know
when, oh, I don't like the way Ilook.
And then you know the school.
It's like I know how this.
I've seen this movie before, soI'm just saying plan early.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
You don't know me, leslie, you don't know me.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
You know, start early , you know.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
But all I'm thinking about is do I need this?
It's something else that I'mbringing home.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
You know what I mean and I don't know.
It's this whole thing aboutspending and buying.
And then you kind ofsuperimpose that with some of
the decisions that you and I andmany other people have made
(22:29):
around where to spend our money,um, where we're not gonna spend
our money, and all that stuff.
It's just kind of um, I don'tknow.
Money is such a.
What did you say to me theother the other day?
You said um, you said ang, theonly people who, the only people
(22:52):
who worry about money are thepeople who don't have it okay,
let me explain okay, I mean,that's almost like captain
obvious, but go ahead but,because there's a corollary to
that too, okay, you say it.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
What's a corollary to that too?
Okay, you say it.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
What's the corollary to that?
Speaker 1 (23:10):
What I've always said is that and you know I come
from modest means for sure youknow and I've only, you know,
been financially comfortable.
You know, in my recent adultyears I would say.
But, you know, growing up andin my early years you know, 20
(23:35):
something or whatever, earlyadult years I'd say I always
thought that I should have moremoney, that I need more money in
order to do this.
And obviously it makes sense,you need to eat and pay your
rent.
But it was only until I madeenough money that I realized
(23:56):
that money ain't everything.
In fact, money's not a lot ofthings.
Right, right, you know, but whocan you tell that to?
You can only have thatconversation with someone who
has enough money.
And then it is that we realizethat you know what Connection.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Love.
Right, you know I mean peopleknow that I've recently divorced
.
It's like the money didn't saveus you know.
So once you have money, it'slike okay, now the work begins.
(24:44):
You know that it breaks uprelationships.
That's not what broke up myrelationship, but it can come in
between relationships and stuff, but it's only when you get
past the point of lack, do youstart thinking that, wow, okay,
what else is there now?
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Yeah, yeah, and I was thinking about the situation
that I was in when you said that, and I'm like you know, leslie,
you are so right.
What happened was I was invitedto take a trip with a new
friend and they were going topay for the trip and I hesitated
(25:29):
.
You know, I don't know if Ishould do this because my money
is kind of geared towards mymoving abroad and this it would
have been a significant amountof money and this person offered
and you know it's like you're,you're, you're taught to that
(25:57):
money is the thing to hold most,most precious, do you know?
me like somebody could give youtheir time.
Yes, they could give you theirlove.
They could give you their gooddown home footing at cooking,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
But when they give you their money, yeah, that's a
big deal if they give you theirmoney.
It becomes so much bigger yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
So much more.
And so when Leslie said, youknow, and money is just an issue
with people, don't have it.
One of the first things Ithought of is that I had done
the same thing many years ago.
Same thing.
I was flowing in the dough andI'm like listen, I want you to
(26:41):
be where I am, don't worry aboutit, just carve out the time,
here's how to get here, type ofthing.
And I've done that and I feltthe same thing.
It's like why there's noobstacle here?
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Money is not in the way of us getting what we want.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
So why are we making it get in the way Right?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
And you and I have had these talks over the years
too.
It's like if I want to go onvacation, of course, over the
years too, you know, it's likeif I want to go on vacation of
course I want to go with mybestie, so here's the tickets.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Let's go.
I know.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
You know, let's go.
And we go, amazing times, Iremember that one time you said
you know I need to talk to youabout something.
Do you remember that I?
Do we were in a hotel in NewYork.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I believe, yeah, it was a ooh, it was a ooh, it was
ooh.
But anyway, because that's whatwe do.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Didn't we have a great weekend then?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
But anyway, oh my gosh.
It was beautiful.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Fly out the museum.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Afrofuturism.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
It was just an amazing weekend yeah, we had a
great weekend.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
We went to a dance performance.
It was an amazing weekend.
Yes, go ahead.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Sorry, it was amazing , but you said, you know like I
feel a little funny about themoney that you spend and this,
and I'm, like you know, at thisstage in my life I thank God
that money doesn't have the samemeaning for me that it does for
many people and the experiencesand the way that I use money as
(28:12):
a tool for joy, togetherness,happiness and stuff like that.
That's why, in my opinion, I'mvery generous and I give freely.
For a few reasons.
One, because it makes me sohappy to see people I love and
adore enjoy some of the thingsthat I enjoy regularly.
(28:33):
But not only that I am thefirst to tell folks that I stand
on the shoulders of giants andthe reason that I am able to
have the things that I have andI absolutely did not do this by
myself.
This lady right here has beenso supportive of my journey into
(28:57):
medicine and into whatever youknow.
My family has been sosupportive and I could not have
done it without those people whoI tried to take care of now.
So we've all.
This journey is for everybodyyou know, this journey.
So how dare you say you know Ishouldn't spend you know money.
(29:17):
You know I'm not going to beeating cat food.
You know if we go away for theweekend.
So you know what I mean.
I'm just I'm being flippantabout it, yeah, but I really
just look at money a little bitdifferently than some people do
Right and it's a blessing.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
It is.
It is a blessing and I'll tellyou from my side, some of the
shifts that I have to, I haveforced myself to make and it's
becoming easier and easier is tosee how my generosity, in
(30:00):
whatever form it comes in, alsohas huge value.
It's currency, right.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
It's currency, it's currency, and so it's kind of so
.
It's not a one-sided thing,right?
It's currency, it's currency,and so it's kind of so it's not
a one-sided thing that.
Leslie is doing all or whatever.
No, we all bring currency torelationships.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Right, right, and so it's kind of it's breaking the
idea of this thing has morevalue than this thing, right?
If someone gives you money, ithas more value than you giving
someone your time.
You giving someone, yourcounsel, you giving someone,
(30:44):
your, whatever your cooking orwhichever way that you show love
to someone else.
So I literally have to breakthis.
Yes, and it's a part of mytraining to say yes to things,
but Ange, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
The culture that we've, the waters that we've
been swimming in, that we'vebeen swimming in.
I was raised that you know yourpartner is supposed to make
more money than you are, issupposed to take care of you
financially.
And it wasn't really drummedinto me that providing love,
(31:24):
companionship, social andemotional support was as
important as what can they dofor you financially, so whether
it was a forward-thinkingthought or not, it was in there
(31:44):
somewhere that I married aphysician Before you became one.
Yeah, yeah, and you know,because it was like that was the
vision or the view of thethings that were important.
So we acquired the white picketfence and the house on the
corner and the multiple cars andthe this and that and whatever.
And then when you have thosethings, when now you can pay all
(32:06):
your bills on time.
Do you start about?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
it's like well what does my heart feel like?
Speaker 1 (32:14):
You know, does this person really know, or feed my
soul, or you know?
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I would just go, are my feet?
Speaker 1 (32:25):
getting rubbed and then, after decades of that,
that's when it turned and Irealized that, wait a minute,
you know the bank accounts orthe material things.
It's still not filling thathole.
That's there, right?
(32:46):
Yeah, you know.
And yeah, this money thing man.
It's crazy, it's crazy becausejust think of it this way.
Now I'm going to bring inanother thing my current love.
He does not make as much moneyas I do, as I do, but he brings
(33:16):
so much more currency to therelationship.
So he doesn't bring the dollarsto the relationship, but he
brings so much more than I do,in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
You know what I mean From the nurturing, from the
cooking to the supportive orwhatever.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
I was on call last night and after getting home at
1.15 in the morning, my phonerings again in a half hour and I
had to go back into thehospital after 2 am and we were
speaking on the phone.
And we were speaking on thephone and he says you know, if I
were there I would drive youthere and just wait for you with
(33:55):
my iPad in the waiting room.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
You know while.
I'm in the OR working.
Yeah, you know, just to makesure that I'm driving safely and
not tired or whatever it's like.
Who can put a price on?
Something like that.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Absolutely yeah, or whatever it's like.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Who can put a price on something like that?
Absolutely yeah, but as a young, you know Black woman growing
up, these are not the thingsthat I was taught were the most
important things you know.
Coming from a mom who was asingle parent and often had, you
know, financial difficulties atsome points, you know obviously
(34:36):
she wants her children to befinancially stable and well
cared for.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
And we look at that through the dollar sign lens.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
It's a whole retraining.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
that it really is.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
It really is we have to do yeah.
And then what subliminalmessages are we leaving to our
children and offspring?
And things like that.
You know you got to do this.
This is the path, and I know Ifall, I'm guilty of that too.
This is the path that you go.
So you go to school, you gostraight no deviations in this
(35:15):
and then you get this.
Then you get the good job, andthen you stay at the good job
until you know.
Leave early, retire early, gointo personal entrepreneurship.
Who does that?
You know, leave your good job.
And whatever I sound like, ourfriend Dr Kamani, you know your
good job.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
By the way.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
the Job Liberation Summit is coming up.
The Job Liberation Summit, soyou?
Speaker 2 (35:41):
guys, make sure we'll put a link.
What are the dates?
Do you have them, les?
I think it's the 16th, may 16thto May 18th.
Yeah, so it's the 16th May 16thto May 18th.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yeah.
So it's a virtual summit andshe is an expert in toxic jobs
and showing people that there isa way out of that situation.
Obviously, it's like how am Igoing to support myself?
What am I going to do?
But I got a pension, I got a401k, I got kids and this it's
like calm down, we got you wehave some good information for
(36:16):
you, so yeah, yeah that's drkimani's dr kimani yeah, um.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
So yeah, it's um, it's been, it's been a journey
um.
I'm so grateful that you knowI've had that big house on the
hill.
Yeah, I've recognized that.
(36:42):
I don't want that anymore.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
That's not, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
It's like no, no, been there, done that there are
other things.
You know what I mean, and Iguess this is what happens when
you get to a certain age atnight, that you've had all these
experiences and you can kind oftease out what you want to keep
from them and what you want toset aside, I mean because, if
(37:07):
nothing else, you startremembering.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Well, when was it when my heart felt the most
content and when did I feel themost joy?
Was it?
sitting in my beautiful backyardlooking at the koi pond and
this and that it was beautiful.
But no, yeah, you know, but no,I'm living smaller and I'm
(37:47):
welcoming that.
But yeah, I really think thatthis stage of our lives, if this
is the last stage of our livesor however direction we're going
in, I love the fact that we arereally starting to weed out the
mess and the things that ispassing the passing the is it
(38:10):
important?
test correct you know, is ittrue just like you called me on
it when I, when I said you knowcomplaining about it, she's like
, well, les, is it really true?
Think about this, or whatever.
Yeah, woe to those folks thatdon't check themselves, not the
woe to Leslie.
(38:35):
But you know it's like yeah youknow, you know you need that.
Who was it that said somethingabout an unexamined life?
Yes, yeah, yeah, it's true.
I mean, for goodness sake, Iknow many elders and elderly
(38:55):
people that are living in thesame way, that they've lived,
with the same mindsets thatthey've lived in their 20s and
30s, and the problem with thatis that they're encountering the
same difficulties that they'vehad all their lives They've not
been able to emancipatethemselves from that Emancipate
yourselves from mental slavery.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
None but ourselves can free our minds.
Okay, that's all the Bob youwill hear from me tonight.
I think, I have a soundtrackplaying in my head all the time.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Yeah, Anyway.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah, so we hope this conversation will cause you to
think a little more deeply, tojust examine these things.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
You know, what are you kind of giving preeminence
in?
Speaker 2 (39:45):
your life, of giving preeminence in your life, what
are you kind of expecting fromothers, and things like that.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Touching on some of the things that we talked about
here.
That's why we come to you everyweek, so this has been another
episode of Black Boomer Bestiesfrom Brooklyn.
I'll drink to that.
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