April 1, 2025 • 38 mins
The Year of Menopause returns with Dr. Toni Otway as she joins the Besties to explore different cultural ideologies of menopause.
• Western societies often frame menopause as women being "put out to pasture" after serving their reproductive purpose
• Many cultures including the Japanese, African, and Mayan societies celebrate menopause as a time for gaining wisdom and elevated social status
• Medical training historically provided minimal education about menopause, focusing only on biological aspects
• Western medicalization often creates anxiety that may worsen menopausal symptoms compared to cultures that embrace the transition
• The Year of Menopause series will continue breaking down menopause topics throughout 2025
Black Girl's Guide to Surviving Menopause
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey Ange.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hey Les, how are you?
We were laughing so you guysgot the tail end of me trying to
sing.
I was trying to sing themonkeys song.
Is it the monkeys?
I?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
guess, then it's on her face yes, now.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm a believer.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Welcome.
It's before my time.
How about that?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I'd like you to believe that lie.
Such a bold-faced lie.
Such a bold-faced lie.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hi everybody, Welcome to another episode of Black
Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I'm Anjala and that's Leslie, my best friend of
almost 50 years.
My best friend of almost 50years.
We are two free-thinking60-something-year-olds and our
podcast just takes you on topicsthat are of interest to us.
We go deep, we're not surfacepeople and we are back with Dr
(00:58):
Toni Otway.
If you remember, she was withus a few weeks ago to introduce
the year of the menopause, whichis a program that an
organization that she is one of,the um I believe she's a
founding member.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yes, not a founding, no just just one of the people,
just one of the people thatjoined in after Dr Bruce Got you
.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Okay, Well, she's back and we're going to go
really deep on a specific areaof menopause and I'm going to
let the two doctors take leadand, as usual, I will poke at
them from the lay person'sperspective, you know, because
sometimes they get into theirlingo and all the things and I'm
(01:45):
like no, no, no no, but have nofear, because this is going to
be informative.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I'm sure you're going to come away knowing more about
menopause and this specificarea of menopause than you knew
coming in.
So before I start talking aboutour jump into the topic, I just
want to reintroduce our guest.
So let me just pull up a bioreal quick.
(02:12):
So, dr Toni Otway is a boardcertified obstetrician and
gynecologist and she's currentlyresiding and practicing in New
Jersey.
And she's currently residingand practicing in New Jersey.
Dr Tony received herundergraduate degree in Florida
and she received her medicaldegree at the University of
(02:34):
Miami, where she did hertraining in Staten Island.
So now that she's come closerto home, she has been practicing
here in New Jersey and servingmostly underprivileged women of
color in all of their needs interms of obstetrician and
(02:55):
gynecology.
Dr Otway currently is a SeniorMedical Director for Horizon,
blue Cross, blue Shield of NewJersey.
I welcome you to Dr Otway, andthis lovely lady is Dr Otway.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Oh, thank you for the introduction.
Just one correction.
I actually do not practiceanymore.
I'm just the medical directorat Horizon, so I gave up a few
years ago.
Notice how she says I'm just,I'm just Like at Horizon, so I
gave up a few years ago.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Notice how she says I'm just.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I'm just Like oh, this old thing I heard the just,
but we get it.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
This is an overachiever.
I heard the just.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Just like you, I heard it too, just like you did.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Oh, my Listen not on our watch will women get
minimized Not on our watch wherewomen get minimized, not on our
watch, I got you.
I hear you yes, okay, got it.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Because your impact has moved necessarily from the
clinical arena, but you'rereally impacting our healthcare.
For Blue Cross, blue Shield.
Right, trying they absolutelyneed your voice in that regard,
so we thank you for that, and itis not just what you do.
We appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
And wait a minute.
Remember the last time that shewas here.
She mentioned that she had atalk for her colleagues and like
200 people showed up.
Yes, you make an impactwherever you are, and we just
want to just just nip that inthe bud.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
OK, ok, ok, so the besties, Black Boomer Besties
from Brooklyn.
We are privileged tocollaborate with two
organizations the New JerseyBlack Women Physicians
Association, of which I am alsoa member, and the New Jersey
Medical Association also I am amember, and these two
(04:51):
organizations are important.
We bring important voices tohealthcare and medicine, not
only locally here in New Jerseybut throughout the country.
We are leading Black physiciansand we bring our voice, our
hearts and our expertise tomedical care across the country
(05:16):
and especially to people whosevoices are not always heard and
who are underserved.
So with that, we havecollaborated with these
organizations to speak aboutmenopause, and the program is
entitled the Year of Menopause.
Our intention is to bring youinformation monthly on different
(05:37):
topics of menopause and, as Isaid previously I know you are
going to leave here changed why?
Because I bet you didn't knowthat menopause affects men,
women and those who love, thosepeople who knew, who knew you
know, who knew this lady knew,and others so.
(05:58):
I'm going to stop speaking and Ibring to you Dr Toni Atway.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Thank you for that introduction, and so what we
(06:26):
would like to in our lead up toall the other things that we're
going to do, you know, for thecoming podcast, is we want to
just talk about the culturaldifferences and attitudes about
menopause that run throughoutthe world.
So you know, I think there's ahuge difference, you know,
between Western and Eastern andthe other societies, as well as
within our own diaspora of blackwomen, american black women.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
West Indian black women, African black women.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
West Indian black women, African black women, as
well as all the other culturesthat are out there.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
So there's huge difference, I mean, and
menopause affects everybodydifferently.
But one of the things that Iwould like to just, you know,
explore a little today is justhow we perceive it culturally,
racially, the differences thatwe have, and also on the aspects
(07:15):
of the care that we get, thedisparities in care that we get,
based on the fact that you know, racially, culturally, all
those differences also.
So I think, as a Western thing,menopause is really seen as
(07:37):
women.
You've served your purpose, sonow, please, you know, step
aside.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Putting you out to pasture.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Putting you out to pasture.
Putting you out to pasture,absolutely.
That's how it's seen in theWestern society and it's seen as
something that's something tobe scared of, something to fear.
It's this taboo that you know,after you go through menopause,
(08:07):
you're no longer significant andthat's how it's really seen
within this Western society.
And, unfortunately, black womenwithin the society have lost,
you know, the cultural aspectsof it that they would have had
if they were still in Africa orSouth America or whatever.
(08:28):
They've lost all of that, whichis a huge shame, but this
really should be seen as aprofoundly useful and spiritual
time.
That's how a lot of thecultures around the world see
this, and it should be seen as atransformative time from your
(08:50):
old self to a new, more powerfulperson, a powerful version of
yourself.
That's what should be seen as,because now you're freer to do a
lot of the things that youprobably weren't free to do
before.
It's one less thing that youhave to worry about every single
month.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
For a lot of reasons there, for a lot of reasons.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
A lot, a lot of reasons.
I'll try to control what's.
Yeah, try to control.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
But I'll just tell you a funny story.
I entered menopause rather latelater than most of my peers,
and I was.
I think 60 and still having mymonthly cycle and I knew that I
did not want to buy the largepack of sanitary napkins and
(09:38):
every time I would buy like 12,like a travel size I'm like.
As God is my witness, this willbe the last package.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I purchase.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
And now, the beauty, though, of those extra sanitary
napkins is when I have urineleaks there they are there, you
go there you go Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
You switched it.
Yes, exactly, you just switchedit up a little bit, they're
multi-purpose.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
There you go.
Absolutely, you switched it.
Yes, exactly, you just switchedit up a little bit
Multi-purpose.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Multi-purpose hey, reuse, recycle, upcycle I
thought you were going to saythat.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Anyway, you always have packages that you give to
the other house.
So I thought you would say thatyou kind of packaged them up.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I need them now, when I laugh too much.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Right Alright, I'm sure a lot of people can relate
to that.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yes, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
I think within this Western patriarchal society it's
seen as a medical condition.
But's it's not.
It's not a medical conditionit's a natural process that we
go through, just like when, um,you know, we go through puberty
and we're, we're, we start uphere is this is just a natural
(10:58):
process.
It should not be seen as just amedical condition one, because
it it, it affects all of ourbodies.
So are you, you're telling meyou've got to treat everything?
Speaker 1 (11:09):
so it's it's.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
It's not, I mean, even like a japanese culture.
They didn't.
They never even had a word forhot flashes.
It was really always to be hot.
To be hot from wearing too manyclothes or drinking alcohol is
it was always.
It's just recently, in a fewyears, that the Japanese women
have actually had a word for hotflashes was never actually seen
(11:33):
.
Condition yeah, okay.
Now if we look at some of the,some of the African cultures, it
it's seen when women go throughmenopause, there's actually
cultural, there's actuallyrituals that they actually have
(11:54):
when women have gone throughmenopause.
These women are now becomingwhat they call elders and they
are senior members and they areinfluential and it's not
actually seen as a negativelight um so and and same with
the caribbean cultures.
They also do um, they don'ttalk about it as much, but it's
(12:16):
not seen as uh, as a negative um.
So but when you come to theWestern culture, it's just seen
as something that you have toprepare the worst for.
It's something that we are ledto feel that we're no longer
(12:37):
useful, we could no longerproduce children.
Everything changes.
Our hair changes, our skinchanges, we just start to look
old and frumpy and and we, youknow, we get this into our head.
That is such a bad, bad thingyeah, so can I?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
just interrupt you for one second, because what I'm
thinking of is how youmentioned that in other cultures
there are rituals around um,around women who are entering
this phase, and here in theWestern cultures we have rituals
for people who are enteringpuberty.
You know we have rituals, likeyou know, there's bar mitzvahs
(13:18):
and bas mitzvahs, and differentsocieties and different cultures
and religions welcome peoplegoing from one stage life stage
to another stage.
It would be wonderful, I wouldsay, if here we can adopt, you
know, some such thing like okay,this is, you're entering into
(13:41):
your age of wisdom you know,perhaps, you know associated
with this change.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Right, absolutely yes Do you think that that has to
do with I'm not a fan of theterm like melting pot right.
I like to think of us as asalad right, where we don't
become this mush of each otherbut we're distinct within
(14:09):
something that's yummy meltingpot of America, unless they stay
really rooted in communities ofwhere they're from, whether
(14:30):
that is a part of kind of whatin a sense erases what they had
in their original culture.
I'm wondering if that's a partof the assimilation that happens
is kind of letting go of someof these ideas, some of these
more positive ideas aboutmenopause, just wondering.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I think it absolutely does, because I think, with
American women here it was, youknow, being a Black woman and
having a rich, rich culturalhistory, a rich african cultural
history, was literally beatenout of us.
Um, so, and we had to, it wasliterally beaten out of us.
(15:15):
And I think the difference inum caribbean women is because,
you know, they, they always kepttheir identity and that's what
they fought for.
And then when they, whenslavery was abolished and they
started to run their owncountries and see these people,
(15:35):
black people, run theircountries and then eventually
they got rid of, you know,british rule and oversight,
oversight, um, they start toreally embrace their old
cultures, but they never reallylost it, or it's here, right?
I think it was.
It's literally beaten out of youum and then you had to adopt
something else to just tosurvive it's really a survival
(15:58):
right now um I, I'm, I'm hoping,and I think there is a more of
awareness of um that this is notsuch a taboo thing anymore.
And I think more and more of usare becoming more and more
educated on the fact that thisis something that can be viewed
as a rite of passage.
It's not so much in a negativelight.
(16:22):
It shouldn't be just a clinicalthing.
It's a natural process that weall have to go through.
Um, in some southern, southamerican um countries, the mayan
women the few that are, youknow, still still around they
actually look forward tomenopause because it's a freedom
, it's a status, it's a.
(16:42):
it's a new, it's a new statusand the way they look at it, and
the same with Japanese women.
The way they look at menopauseis something that's not
thinnable.
They take it as a wholeholistic view and they do things
(17:02):
like diet and exercise, and wefind that a lot of these women
in other countries don't have asmuch of the effects that
menopause can bring on, becausethey're embracing it that we are
feeling so many, you know oursymptoms are so much more
(17:29):
intense because we're actuallygoing into it with a fear.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Right and we're adding anxiety to the whole
picture and we're adding anxietyto it.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Sure or embarrassment .
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Right.
So I, like you know, when Iused to do a lot of deliveries,
I would, you know, say to peoplethey would come in with their
birthing plans because if theyresearched it and could control
it, then it would turn outbetter.
(18:11):
I would always tell them pleasedo not come to me with a
birthing plan, tear it up.
Tear up your birthing plan,understand what the process is.
It's a natural process process.
Your body is going to do what itneeds to do to push this baby
out and whatever you write downon a piece of paper, it's not
(18:33):
going to happen, and itinvariably didn't happen the way
they wanted it to happen,because you cannot control
something.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
That's a natural process the body I have to
mention.
A friend of ours had a wholebirth.
I mean she was.
She was gonna play yanni, shewas gonna have candles in the
room.
It it did not pan out.
It never does birth it.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Birth is a whole process that your body, your
mind, everything is in tune witheach other and nothing you
think in your head about whatcan happen with a birth is going
to happen Because your body isgoing to do what it needs to do
to get that baby out, your bodywill do it.
So I always used to.
Just every time people wouldcome with a birth implant I
(19:22):
would just want to throw up.
I would always say, just leaveit alone.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
This is what doctors are.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yes, yes, yes, we go in the break room and it's like
pssst those people, oh, my God.
She has a birthing plan.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
It's a whole template .
Speaker 1 (19:39):
It's a whole yes, exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
So I think that the more and more I look into
menopause and what's going on, Ithink we are setting ourselves
up for failure when it comes totrying to deal with this,
because we are putting pressureon ourselves that we don't want
what is naturally going tohappen to happen, and it's
(20:03):
inevitable.
You can't fight it to happen tohappen, and it's an it's
inevitable.
You can't fight it, so you needto try and do the best for you,
what you can do to helpyourself get through it, and
that would mean exercising, thatwould mean eating right, that
would mean making sure you takecare of any other chronic
illnesses that you have, um, soI think that's really, really,
(20:26):
really important, reallyimportant.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
I have so many questions based on what you've
just said, so what I almostthink needs to happen is we need
to tear down the buildings thatare there around menopause and
rebuild new ideas and paradigmsaround it.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Right, it's not even building new ideas.
It's looking outside of wherewe're at to see how they are
doing it, because there arecultures that are doing it a lot
better than us.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
We don't need to reinvent the wheel.
We don't need to reinvent thewheel.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Women have been going through this for years and
years you know, we don't need toreinvent the wheel.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
We don't need to reinvent the wheel.
This has been.
Women have been going throughthis for, yeah, years, and years
, you know forever.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
So there's, there are people that are out there, or
cultures that are out there thatare doing it right or doing it
with less um fear that we, thatyou know, that we have, um, you
know there's some, some cultures, that believe menstrual blood
is is the power to create life.
You know giving birth and thenwhen you lose, when you stop
(21:33):
bleeding, they see it asretaining wise blood.
You're crushing the thresholdinto wise women and you keep
that blood within you and nowyou're healers of the community.
So if you're looking forward,to this oh.
I love that.
That's great.
I know I'm kidding.
That's a beautiful way to thinkof it, right?
(21:55):
If you're looking forward tothis stage in your life, then
you're going to embrace it andyou're going to go into it with
a different mindset.
Now I am retaining an elementthat is increasing right
absolutely yeah, yeah, so Ithink we have to really change
(22:15):
how we see it, um, and we haveto change also how we talk about
it I was just gonna say yesthere's cultural differences in
how we talk about it.
um, you know some women, youknow those ones that embrace it.
They talk about it more and Ithink this society, we keep it
(22:36):
very hush hush, but I'm glad tosee that in the past few years
it's now been talked about more.
We're researching it more.
Women are demanding that theyget help or they get a better
understanding of what's going on, and even coming down to being
(22:58):
treated for some of the symptomsI think we need.
You know, doctors perceivedifferent women differently,
whether it be racial or cultural.
They perceive us differently.
I mean, they perceive usdifferently on all kinds of
level.
So why would menopause be anydifferent?
So that has to change also andwe have to get across this, you
(23:21):
know break down the barrier ofactually trying to educate
people on what it is to gothrough menopause.
So, yeah, there's a lot to do,there's a lot to talk about.
I think it's just the talkinguh needs to really step up, Um,
and I think we will eventuallyget to a point where it won't be
(23:44):
such a taboo anymore, it won'tbe such a fearful thing that
that we're going through, andit's something we should, we
should embrace.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
I have a couple of questions, if I may, um what is
discussed in your medicaltraining.
Um, I know les you doanesthesia, um, but um, what is
what is taught in your medicaltraining about menopause?
And I'm thinking because thereare OB-GYNs who are not women
(24:23):
and I'd love to kind ofunderstand what is the
perception they come in witharound how to treat women who
are going through um menopause.
What, yeah, what is thetraining like?
Speaker 3 (24:37):
well, when I was going through, there was barely
any training and it was reallymore um, in the context of the
biology of it, the science of it, what's happening to your body,
um.
But they're not talking abouttoo much.
You know other things that goon with it, how to treat it.
It was really more about thescience of it, um okay and you
(25:02):
know, the only times I wouldreally get or really have
teaching on it was when I was inthe clinics.
It wasn't like we had classeson how to teach or how to treat.
It was more when we were in theclinic.
So now all we're just gettingis well, this woman has this and
this one.
(25:23):
We didn't have like a wholeholistic approach to it.
And you know, in this societyyou know it's not so much now
but um, it was really, you know,a lot of men were doing this
and didn't really, you know,affect them, so they weren't
really interested in teachingtoo much of it, they weren't
really interested in treating it.
(25:45):
Um, they would just kind oflike blow a lot of women off.
So it was difficult and Ididn't know, you know, back then
I didn't know that I needed toknow about this stuff I really,
really needed to know, so it'syou know there's a.
You know, as women also comingout of training, we didn't do
(26:10):
ourselves any favors either byjust ignoring this.
But again, it's a patriarchalsociety.
They're the ones that arecontrolling it.
But more and more these days,women in medical school are
catching up.
I think it's almost like 50-50now.
And maybe just a little bitover 50%, so hopefully with that
(26:36):
this subject will also.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
The approach to this subject will also change, I know
I can speak about my trainingjust through my OB rotation in
medical school.
Just through my OB rotation inmedical school, you know we
concentrated more obviously onthe mechanical components of the
(27:00):
birthing process per se.
You know that was a medicalstudent's role, let's say, to
understand what epidurals areand to understand the physical
part of the birthing process orwomen, gynecological issues,
peripherally Obviously.
I was just a student at thetime.
But as you said, dr Tony, weabsolutely did not talk about
(27:24):
the entire, what they call thepsycho, biopsychosocial
component, the totality of thewoman through every stage of her
lifespan and what happens afterMency stops.
(27:45):
So I too, you know, didn'tunderstand really about this
part.
That's when my non-physicianpart comes in and out.
I just have to be just like anyperson in society.
What?
have you heard from your mother?
What have you heard from yourfriends?
And again, we don't talk thatmuch.
The things that we do hear arethe whispers about it and the
(28:10):
hot flashes and the sweatingright, and there's a whole other
constellation of things thathave just been left out, and the
problem is we've accepted itright, right and because when
you don't know what to ask, youdon't know, you don't know yeah,
I, I hear you, I hear you and Iyou know.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
I think that um know there's a lot of barriers to you
know overcome, even within thehealthcare field, in terms of
you know the language, that you,how you speak to people and
what kind of language you useand how much are they educated
and socioeconomic status Canthey even come to?
(28:50):
just you know, some people arejust trying to barely survive
day to day and this is the lastthing on their mind, when really
this should really be one ofthe first things on their mind,
because going through menopauseleads to a whole constellation
of issues if it's not taken careof and treated right.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
So yeah, it's a lot approach people where they are
and in the language that theyunderstand, Right.
And that speaks to differenteducational levels.
That speaks to differentcultural beliefs.
That also speaks to differentreligious beliefs.
So the more that we are awareof the differences among
different populations of peoplegoing through these processes,
(29:50):
the better we are able to helppeople through it without that
anxiety and fear that you'retalking about, right Well, I
think it's awareness, but it'salso respect, because sometimes
people are aware of differencesbut it's like ah yeah,
especially that's all wives,whatever that's.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
BS or you know, it's kind of a really judgy.
It's not ignorance, it'sjudgment, right, and so I think
that's the part of it too, thatwe're not kind of the center of
the universe and everything thatwe do in Western society is the
way that it ought to be doneand everything else is looked at
(30:30):
with suspicion and, um, youknow, in a kind of uncivilized,
um bent you know, I mean um, Iwant to give a shout out to, um,
uh, omishade, bernie scott.
She has started this program.
I mean, it's been many yearsnow that she's been her
(30:52):
multi-generational it's such amix of.
She has a podcast.
She has zines that she creates.
She's been working across theboard, but her organization is
called Black Women's Guide toSurviving Menopause and they do
a lot of work to break down someof what we're talking about
(31:15):
here the stigmas aroundmenopause, seeing it in a very
positive way, seeing it, as youknow, a movement through life,
bringing younger people into theconversation around menopause,
so it doesn't't become this orcontinue to be this silence and
(31:35):
maybe even ridicule sometimesaround women who are
experiencing or arepost-menopausal.
And so, yeah, she's got a reallyamazing organization.
We'll definitely put links toit here, along with the work
that the two organizations thatLeslie mentioned are a part of
(31:58):
it.
You know, I can just imaginethat some of you listening, as
Leslie said, are being informed.
But to really think deeplyabout how you have been, deeply
(32:20):
about how you have been, perhaps, if I might say, brainwashed
about menopause, right, and evenif you come from a culture that
sees menopause more positivelypositively, what Tony is talking
about here is that there's somany different cultural lenses
around menopause, right, and soyou might be interested in how
(32:43):
other people look at it right,and there are other ways to kind
of go through the experience.
There may be other treatmentsand I don't know if it's, do we
call it treatment?
Since it's a very natural, Iguess it's still called a
treatment.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Or therapies, or therapies.
Yes, Therapies okay.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Things like that Right to explore different types
of therapies Because, as we'vesaid over and over again, I know
that people experiencemenopause in very different ways
, like I.
Mine was that that peopleexperience menopause in very
different ways, like I mine wasvery very mild.
I don't recall anything morethan some, you know, restless
(33:22):
nights not being able to sleepbecause of the heat.
I don't remember much more thanthat.
Neither did my mom, but youknow we all have very different
experiences I thought lesliewould never.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
It's like really what you again looking around.
Why is that in your?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
bathroom already.
Yes, so it's very, it's verydifferent and, if you know, if
you're not kind of feeling likewhat you're doing is helping see
what other cultures are doingand that may be helpful also,
right definitely definitely thisis this is good you thought the
engineer wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
No, I'm just thinking about our whole talk and I'm
actually anticipating, you know,the things that are coming up
more, and we're going to getmore into the conversations that
you talked about in terms oftherapeutics later on and we'll
talk about oh my gosh, this isexciting.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Right, we've got 2025 to do it.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
So, dr Tony, what is coming up in the next
installment of the year ofmenopause?
With black boomer besties fromBrooklyn, what might you be
bringing us?
Speaker 3 (34:40):
I love your name.
I think coming up is whatpeople really, really want to
know.
You know, what do I need to doto treat my symptoms or help my
symptoms or help me go throughthis.
So we're going to break it downinto the different areas of the
body.
I think I mentioned last timethat estrogen receptors is over
(35:01):
400 within the body from the topof your head to the hair on
your head, all the way down toyour tippy toes.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Wow.
Estrogen affects it all down toyour tippy toes.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Estrogen affects it all.
So we're going to startbreaking the body down and
talking about the differentareas, whether it's the cardiac,
the bones, the brain that thingthat they say brain fog is real
, it's a real thing and we'regoing to go deeper into those
(35:34):
things and and try and explain,uh, what it is the, the, the,
the loss, or I shouldn't say theloss, because the japanese
actually do not think it as aloss of estrogen.
They think of it as a change inthe balance of their hormones.
I read that today and I waslike, oh that's interesting they
don't think it as a loss.
(35:54):
It's a change it's so we'regoing to talk about how the
changes of the hormones affectthe different areas of the body
and what we can do to treat themwhile you're going through the
changes and prior to, because Ithink I mentioned the last time
that a lot of this stuff, weneed to be working on this stuff
(36:14):
before we actually reach thislisten.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
As soon as that call finished, as soon as you, we
hung up, I went and got thecentral I've been taking it
every day.
I'm like jody was like y'allbetter get on you, get'all
better get your Centrum 50s.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Yes, your women's Centrum 50.
It's been known to help withthe brain and you know I can't
take the tablets.
Those tablets are huge.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
They are huge.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
So I have to get the gummies, but I have to buy them
in bulk because they go so fast.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Those gummies go really fast.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
I see, I see, but I can't take the pills.
They're huge, they're humongous, they are.
But yeah, so we're going to doa deep dive.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Okay, this is going to be.
I'm looking forward to this.
So here's another thing thatI'm going to take away from this
.
I'm not going to say that I'mlosing my memory.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I'm going to say that my memory is shifting to more
important parts of my body.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Absolutely, yeah, let's see how that works.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
We're not no, but the idea of rebalancing is really
beautiful.
Right, it is, it's, it's acontinuum and it's yeah yeah
right oh, I look forward to it.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
well, it, it's not a lot, I think this has been great
, Right?
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Oh well, well, Chef Kiss, Dr Toni Otway, Thank you.
I look forward to our nextsegment next month or in a
number of weeks, but keep thecomments coming everyone and we
(37:54):
really got good feedback andpeople very interested in this
project and I really think it'sgoing to be helpful.
So at that I'll say this hasbeen another episode of Black
Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Thank you.
Hey Ange.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hey Les, how are you?
We were laughing so you guysgot the tail end of me trying to
sing.
I was trying to sing themonkeys song.
Is it the monkeys?
I?
Speaker 1 (00:15):
guess, then it's on her face yes, now.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm a believer.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Welcome.
It's before my time.
How about that?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I'd like you to believe that lie.
Such a bold-faced lie.
Such a bold-faced lie.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hi everybody, Welcome to another episode of Black
Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I'm Anjala and that's Leslie, my best friend of
almost 50 years.
My best friend of almost 50years.
We are two free-thinking60-something-year-olds and our
podcast just takes you on topicsthat are of interest to us.
We go deep, we're not surfacepeople and we are back with Dr
(00:58):
Toni Otway.
If you remember, she was withus a few weeks ago to introduce
the year of the menopause, whichis a program that an
organization that she is one of,the um I believe she's a
founding member.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Yes, not a founding, no just just one of the people,
just one of the people thatjoined in after Dr Bruce Got you
.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Okay, Well, she's back and we're going to go
really deep on a specific areaof menopause and I'm going to
let the two doctors take leadand, as usual, I will poke at
them from the lay person'sperspective, you know, because
sometimes they get into theirlingo and all the things and I'm
(01:45):
like no, no, no no, but have nofear, because this is going to
be informative.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I'm sure you're going to come away knowing more about
menopause and this specificarea of menopause than you knew
coming in.
So before I start talking aboutour jump into the topic, I just
want to reintroduce our guest.
So let me just pull up a bioreal quick.
(02:12):
So, dr Toni Otway is a boardcertified obstetrician and
gynecologist and she's currentlyresiding and practicing in New
Jersey.
And she's currently residingand practicing in New Jersey.
Dr Tony received herundergraduate degree in Florida
and she received her medicaldegree at the University of
(02:34):
Miami, where she did hertraining in Staten Island.
So now that she's come closerto home, she has been practicing
here in New Jersey and servingmostly underprivileged women of
color in all of their needs interms of obstetrician and
(02:55):
gynecology.
Dr Otway currently is a SeniorMedical Director for Horizon,
blue Cross, blue Shield of NewJersey.
I welcome you to Dr Otway, andthis lovely lady is Dr Otway.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Oh, thank you for the introduction.
Just one correction.
I actually do not practiceanymore.
I'm just the medical directorat Horizon, so I gave up a few
years ago.
Notice how she says I'm just,I'm just Like at Horizon, so I
gave up a few years ago.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Notice how she says I'm just.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
I'm just Like oh, this old thing I heard the just,
but we get it.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
This is an overachiever.
I heard the just.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Just like you, I heard it too, just like you did.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Oh, my Listen not on our watch will women get
minimized Not on our watch wherewomen get minimized, not on our
watch, I got you.
I hear you yes, okay, got it.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Because your impact has moved necessarily from the
clinical arena, but you'rereally impacting our healthcare.
For Blue Cross, blue Shield.
Right, trying they absolutelyneed your voice in that regard,
so we thank you for that, and itis not just what you do.
We appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
And wait a minute.
Remember the last time that shewas here.
She mentioned that she had atalk for her colleagues and like
200 people showed up.
Yes, you make an impactwherever you are, and we just
want to just just nip that inthe bud.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
OK, ok, ok, so the besties, Black Boomer Besties
from Brooklyn.
We are privileged tocollaborate with two
organizations the New JerseyBlack Women Physicians
Association, of which I am alsoa member, and the New Jersey
Medical Association also I am amember, and these two
(04:51):
organizations are important.
We bring important voices tohealthcare and medicine, not
only locally here in New Jerseybut throughout the country.
We are leading Black physiciansand we bring our voice, our
hearts and our expertise tomedical care across the country
(05:16):
and especially to people whosevoices are not always heard and
who are underserved.
So with that, we havecollaborated with these
organizations to speak aboutmenopause, and the program is
entitled the Year of Menopause.
Our intention is to bring youinformation monthly on different
(05:37):
topics of menopause and, as Isaid previously I know you are
going to leave here changed why?
Because I bet you didn't knowthat menopause affects men,
women and those who love, thosepeople who knew, who knew you
know, who knew this lady knew,and others so.
(05:58):
I'm going to stop speaking and Ibring to you Dr Toni Atway.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Thank you for that introduction, and so what we
(06:26):
would like to in our lead up toall the other things that we're
going to do, you know, for thecoming podcast, is we want to
just talk about the culturaldifferences and attitudes about
menopause that run throughoutthe world.
So you know, I think there's ahuge difference, you know,
between Western and Eastern andthe other societies, as well as
within our own diaspora of blackwomen, american black women.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
West Indian black women, African black women.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
West Indian black women, African black women, as
well as all the other culturesthat are out there.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
So there's huge difference, I mean, and
menopause affects everybodydifferently.
But one of the things that Iwould like to just, you know,
explore a little today is justhow we perceive it culturally,
racially, the differences thatwe have, and also on the aspects
(07:15):
of the care that we get, thedisparities in care that we get,
based on the fact that you know, racially, culturally, all
those differences also.
So I think, as a Western thing,menopause is really seen as
(07:37):
women.
You've served your purpose, sonow, please, you know, step
aside.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Putting you out to pasture.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Putting you out to pasture.
Putting you out to pasture,absolutely.
That's how it's seen in theWestern society and it's seen as
something that's something tobe scared of, something to fear.
It's this taboo that you know,after you go through menopause,
(08:07):
you're no longer significant andthat's how it's really seen
within this Western society.
And, unfortunately, black womenwithin the society have lost,
you know, the cultural aspectsof it that they would have had
if they were still in Africa orSouth America or whatever.
(08:28):
They've lost all of that, whichis a huge shame, but this
really should be seen as aprofoundly useful and spiritual
time.
That's how a lot of thecultures around the world see
this, and it should be seen as atransformative time from your
(08:50):
old self to a new, more powerfulperson, a powerful version of
yourself.
That's what should be seen as,because now you're freer to do a
lot of the things that youprobably weren't free to do
before.
It's one less thing that youhave to worry about every single
month.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
For a lot of reasons there, for a lot of reasons.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
A lot, a lot of reasons.
I'll try to control what's.
Yeah, try to control.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
But I'll just tell you a funny story.
I entered menopause rather latelater than most of my peers,
and I was.
I think 60 and still having mymonthly cycle and I knew that I
did not want to buy the largepack of sanitary napkins and
(09:38):
every time I would buy like 12,like a travel size I'm like.
As God is my witness, this willbe the last package.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I purchase.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
And now, the beauty, though, of those extra sanitary
napkins is when I have urineleaks there they are there, you
go there you go Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
You switched it.
Yes, exactly, you just switchedit up a little bit, they're
multi-purpose.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
There you go.
Absolutely, you switched it.
Yes, exactly, you just switchedit up a little bit
Multi-purpose.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Multi-purpose hey, reuse, recycle, upcycle I
thought you were going to saythat.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Anyway, you always have packages that you give to
the other house.
So I thought you would say thatyou kind of packaged them up.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I need them now, when I laugh too much.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Right Alright, I'm sure a lot of people can relate
to that.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yes, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
I think within this Western patriarchal society it's
seen as a medical condition.
But's it's not.
It's not a medical conditionit's a natural process that we
go through, just like when, um,you know, we go through puberty
and we're, we're, we start uphere is this is just a natural
(10:58):
process.
It should not be seen as just amedical condition one, because
it it, it affects all of ourbodies.
So are you, you're telling meyou've got to treat everything?
Speaker 1 (11:09):
so it's it's.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
It's not, I mean, even like a japanese culture.
They didn't.
They never even had a word forhot flashes.
It was really always to be hot.
To be hot from wearing too manyclothes or drinking alcohol is
it was always.
It's just recently, in a fewyears, that the Japanese women
have actually had a word for hotflashes was never actually seen
(11:33):
.
Condition yeah, okay.
Now if we look at some of the,some of the African cultures, it
it's seen when women go throughmenopause, there's actually
cultural, there's actuallyrituals that they actually have
(11:54):
when women have gone throughmenopause.
These women are now becomingwhat they call elders and they
are senior members and they areinfluential and it's not
actually seen as a negativelight um so and and same with
the caribbean cultures.
They also do um, they don'ttalk about it as much, but it's
(12:16):
not seen as uh, as a negative um.
So but when you come to theWestern culture, it's just seen
as something that you have toprepare the worst for.
It's something that we are ledto feel that we're no longer
(12:37):
useful, we could no longerproduce children.
Everything changes.
Our hair changes, our skinchanges, we just start to look
old and frumpy and and we, youknow, we get this into our head.
That is such a bad, bad thingyeah, so can I?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
just interrupt you for one second, because what I'm
thinking of is how youmentioned that in other cultures
there are rituals around um,around women who are entering
this phase, and here in theWestern cultures we have rituals
for people who are enteringpuberty.
You know we have rituals, likeyou know, there's bar mitzvahs
(13:18):
and bas mitzvahs, and differentsocieties and different cultures
and religions welcome peoplegoing from one stage life stage
to another stage.
It would be wonderful, I wouldsay, if here we can adopt, you
know, some such thing like okay,this is, you're entering into
(13:41):
your age of wisdom you know,perhaps, you know associated
with this change.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Right, absolutely yes Do you think that that has to
do with I'm not a fan of theterm like melting pot right.
I like to think of us as asalad right, where we don't
become this mush of each otherbut we're distinct within
(14:09):
something that's yummy meltingpot of America, unless they stay
really rooted in communities ofwhere they're from, whether
(14:30):
that is a part of kind of whatin a sense erases what they had
in their original culture.
I'm wondering if that's a partof the assimilation that happens
is kind of letting go of someof these ideas, some of these
more positive ideas aboutmenopause, just wondering.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I think it absolutely does, because I think, with
American women here it was, youknow, being a Black woman and
having a rich, rich culturalhistory, a rich african cultural
history, was literally beatenout of us.
Um, so, and we had to, it wasliterally beaten out of us.
(15:15):
And I think the difference inum caribbean women is because,
you know, they, they always kepttheir identity and that's what
they fought for.
And then when they, whenslavery was abolished and they
started to run their owncountries and see these people,
(15:35):
black people, run theircountries and then eventually
they got rid of, you know,british rule and oversight,
oversight, um, they start toreally embrace their old
cultures, but they never reallylost it, or it's here, right?
I think it was.
It's literally beaten out of youum and then you had to adopt
something else to just tosurvive it's really a survival
(15:58):
right now um I, I'm, I'm hoping,and I think there is a more of
awareness of um that this is notsuch a taboo thing anymore.
And I think more and more of usare becoming more and more
educated on the fact that thisis something that can be viewed
as a rite of passage.
It's not so much in a negativelight.
(16:22):
It shouldn't be just a clinicalthing.
It's a natural process that weall have to go through.
Um, in some southern, southamerican um countries, the mayan
women the few that are, youknow, still still around they
actually look forward tomenopause because it's a freedom
, it's a status, it's a.
(16:42):
it's a new, it's a new statusand the way they look at it, and
the same with Japanese women.
The way they look at menopauseis something that's not
thinnable.
They take it as a wholeholistic view and they do things
(17:02):
like diet and exercise, and wefind that a lot of these women
in other countries don't have asmuch of the effects that
menopause can bring on, becausethey're embracing it that we are
feeling so many, you know oursymptoms are so much more
(17:29):
intense because we're actuallygoing into it with a fear.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Right and we're adding anxiety to the whole
picture and we're adding anxietyto it.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Sure or embarrassment .
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Right.
So I, like you know, when Iused to do a lot of deliveries,
I would, you know, say to peoplethey would come in with their
birthing plans because if theyresearched it and could control
it, then it would turn outbetter.
(18:11):
I would always tell them pleasedo not come to me with a
birthing plan, tear it up.
Tear up your birthing plan,understand what the process is.
It's a natural process process.
Your body is going to do what itneeds to do to push this baby
out and whatever you write downon a piece of paper, it's not
(18:33):
going to happen, and itinvariably didn't happen the way
they wanted it to happen,because you cannot control
something.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
That's a natural process the body I have to
mention.
A friend of ours had a wholebirth.
I mean she was.
She was gonna play yanni, shewas gonna have candles in the
room.
It it did not pan out.
It never does birth it.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Birth is a whole process that your body, your
mind, everything is in tune witheach other and nothing you
think in your head about whatcan happen with a birth is going
to happen Because your body isgoing to do what it needs to do
to get that baby out, your bodywill do it.
So I always used to.
Just every time people wouldcome with a birth implant I
(19:22):
would just want to throw up.
I would always say, just leaveit alone.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
This is what doctors are.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yes, yes, yes, we go in the break room and it's like
pssst those people, oh, my God.
She has a birthing plan.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
It's a whole template .
Speaker 1 (19:39):
It's a whole yes, exactly.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
So I think that the more and more I look into
menopause and what's going on, Ithink we are setting ourselves
up for failure when it comes totrying to deal with this,
because we are putting pressureon ourselves that we don't want
what is naturally going tohappen to happen, and it's
(20:03):
inevitable.
You can't fight it to happen tohappen, and it's an it's
inevitable.
You can't fight it, so you needto try and do the best for you,
what you can do to helpyourself get through it, and
that would mean exercising, thatwould mean eating right, that
would mean making sure you takecare of any other chronic
illnesses that you have, um, soI think that's really, really,
(20:26):
really important, reallyimportant.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
I have so many questions based on what you've
just said, so what I almostthink needs to happen is we need
to tear down the buildings thatare there around menopause and
rebuild new ideas and paradigmsaround it.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
Right, it's not even building new ideas.
It's looking outside of wherewe're at to see how they are
doing it, because there arecultures that are doing it a lot
better than us.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
We don't need to reinvent the wheel.
We don't need to reinvent thewheel.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
Women have been going through this for years and
years you know, we don't need toreinvent the wheel.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
We don't need to reinvent the wheel.
This has been.
Women have been going throughthis for, yeah, years, and years
, you know forever.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
So there's, there are people that are out there, or
cultures that are out there thatare doing it right or doing it
with less um fear that we, thatyou know, that we have, um, you
know there's some, some cultures, that believe menstrual blood
is is the power to create life.
You know giving birth and thenwhen you lose, when you stop
(21:33):
bleeding, they see it asretaining wise blood.
You're crushing the thresholdinto wise women and you keep
that blood within you and nowyou're healers of the community.
So if you're looking forward,to this oh.
I love that.
That's great.
I know I'm kidding.
That's a beautiful way to thinkof it, right?
(21:55):
If you're looking forward tothis stage in your life, then
you're going to embrace it andyou're going to go into it with
a different mindset.
Now I am retaining an elementthat is increasing right
absolutely yeah, yeah, so Ithink we have to really change
(22:15):
how we see it, um, and we haveto change also how we talk about
it I was just gonna say yesthere's cultural differences in
how we talk about it.
um, you know some women, youknow those ones that embrace it.
They talk about it more and Ithink this society, we keep it
(22:36):
very hush hush, but I'm glad tosee that in the past few years
it's now been talked about more.
We're researching it more.
Women are demanding that theyget help or they get a better
understanding of what's going on, and even coming down to being
(22:58):
treated for some of the symptomsI think we need.
You know, doctors perceivedifferent women differently,
whether it be racial or cultural.
They perceive us differently.
I mean, they perceive usdifferently on all kinds of
level.
So why would menopause be anydifferent?
So that has to change also andwe have to get across this, you
(23:21):
know break down the barrier ofactually trying to educate
people on what it is to gothrough menopause.
So, yeah, there's a lot to do,there's a lot to talk about.
I think it's just the talkinguh needs to really step up, Um,
and I think we will eventuallyget to a point where it won't be
(23:44):
such a taboo anymore, it won'tbe such a fearful thing that
that we're going through, andit's something we should, we
should embrace.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
I have a couple of questions, if I may, um what is
discussed in your medicaltraining.
Um, I know les you doanesthesia, um, but um, what is
what is taught in your medicaltraining about menopause?
And I'm thinking because thereare OB-GYNs who are not women
(24:23):
and I'd love to kind ofunderstand what is the
perception they come in witharound how to treat women who
are going through um menopause.
What, yeah, what is thetraining like?
Speaker 3 (24:37):
well, when I was going through, there was barely
any training and it was reallymore um, in the context of the
biology of it, the science of it, what's happening to your body,
um.
But they're not talking abouttoo much.
You know other things that goon with it, how to treat it.
It was really more about thescience of it, um okay and you
(25:02):
know, the only times I wouldreally get or really have
teaching on it was when I was inthe clinics.
It wasn't like we had classeson how to teach or how to treat.
It was more when we were in theclinic.
So now all we're just gettingis well, this woman has this and
this one.
(25:23):
We didn't have like a wholeholistic approach to it.
And you know, in this societyyou know it's not so much now
but um, it was really, you know,a lot of men were doing this
and didn't really, you know,affect them, so they weren't
really interested in teachingtoo much of it, they weren't
really interested in treating it.
(25:45):
Um, they would just kind oflike blow a lot of women off.
So it was difficult and Ididn't know, you know, back then
I didn't know that I needed toknow about this stuff I really,
really needed to know, so it'syou know there's a.
You know, as women also comingout of training, we didn't do
(26:10):
ourselves any favors either byjust ignoring this.
But again, it's a patriarchalsociety.
They're the ones that arecontrolling it.
But more and more these days,women in medical school are
catching up.
I think it's almost like 50-50now.
And maybe just a little bitover 50%, so hopefully with that
(26:36):
this subject will also.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
The approach to this subject will also change, I know
I can speak about my trainingjust through my OB rotation in
medical school.
Just through my OB rotation inmedical school, you know we
concentrated more obviously onthe mechanical components of the
(27:00):
birthing process per se.
You know that was a medicalstudent's role, let's say, to
understand what epidurals areand to understand the physical
part of the birthing process orwomen, gynecological issues,
peripherally Obviously.
I was just a student at thetime.
But as you said, dr Tony, weabsolutely did not talk about
(27:24):
the entire, what they call thepsycho, biopsychosocial
component, the totality of thewoman through every stage of her
lifespan and what happens afterMency stops.
(27:45):
So I too, you know, didn'tunderstand really about this
part.
That's when my non-physicianpart comes in and out.
I just have to be just like anyperson in society.
What?
have you heard from your mother?
What have you heard from yourfriends?
And again, we don't talk thatmuch.
The things that we do hear arethe whispers about it and the
(28:10):
hot flashes and the sweatingright, and there's a whole other
constellation of things thathave just been left out, and the
problem is we've accepted itright, right and because when
you don't know what to ask, youdon't know, you don't know yeah,
I, I hear you, I hear you and Iyou know.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
I think that um know there's a lot of barriers to you
know overcome, even within thehealthcare field, in terms of
you know the language, that you,how you speak to people and
what kind of language you useand how much are they educated
and socioeconomic status Canthey even come to?
(28:50):
just you know, some people arejust trying to barely survive
day to day and this is the lastthing on their mind, when really
this should really be one ofthe first things on their mind,
because going through menopauseleads to a whole constellation
of issues if it's not taken careof and treated right.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
So yeah, it's a lot approach people where they are
and in the language that theyunderstand, Right.
And that speaks to differenteducational levels.
That speaks to differentcultural beliefs.
That also speaks to differentreligious beliefs.
So the more that we are awareof the differences among
different populations of peoplegoing through these processes,
(29:50):
the better we are able to helppeople through it without that
anxiety and fear that you'retalking about, right Well, I
think it's awareness, but it'salso respect, because sometimes
people are aware of differencesbut it's like ah yeah,
especially that's all wives,whatever that's.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
BS or you know, it's kind of a really judgy.
It's not ignorance, it'sjudgment, right, and so I think
that's the part of it too, thatwe're not kind of the center of
the universe and everything thatwe do in Western society is the
way that it ought to be doneand everything else is looked at
(30:30):
with suspicion and, um, youknow, in a kind of uncivilized,
um bent you know, I mean um, Iwant to give a shout out to, um,
uh, omishade, bernie scott.
She has started this program.
I mean, it's been many yearsnow that she's been her
(30:52):
multi-generational it's such amix of.
She has a podcast.
She has zines that she creates.
She's been working across theboard, but her organization is
called Black Women's Guide toSurviving Menopause and they do
a lot of work to break down someof what we're talking about
(31:15):
here the stigmas aroundmenopause, seeing it in a very
positive way, seeing it, as youknow, a movement through life,
bringing younger people into theconversation around menopause,
so it doesn't't become this orcontinue to be this silence and
(31:35):
maybe even ridicule sometimesaround women who are
experiencing or arepost-menopausal.
And so, yeah, she's got a reallyamazing organization.
We'll definitely put links toit here, along with the work
that the two organizations thatLeslie mentioned are a part of
(31:58):
it.
You know, I can just imaginethat some of you listening, as
Leslie said, are being informed.
But to really think deeplyabout how you have been, deeply
(32:20):
about how you have been, perhaps, if I might say, brainwashed
about menopause, right, and evenif you come from a culture that
sees menopause more positivelypositively, what Tony is talking
about here is that there's somany different cultural lenses
around menopause, right, and soyou might be interested in how
(32:43):
other people look at it right,and there are other ways to kind
of go through the experience.
There may be other treatmentsand I don't know if it's, do we
call it treatment?
Since it's a very natural, Iguess it's still called a
treatment.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Or therapies, or therapies.
Yes, Therapies okay.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Things like that Right to explore different types
of therapies Because, as we'vesaid over and over again, I know
that people experiencemenopause in very different ways
, like I.
Mine was that that peopleexperience menopause in very
different ways, like I mine wasvery very mild.
I don't recall anything morethan some, you know, restless
(33:22):
nights not being able to sleepbecause of the heat.
I don't remember much more thanthat.
Neither did my mom, but youknow we all have very different
experiences I thought lesliewould never.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
It's like really what you again looking around.
Why is that in your?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
bathroom already.
Yes, so it's very, it's verydifferent and, if you know, if
you're not kind of feeling likewhat you're doing is helping see
what other cultures are doingand that may be helpful also,
right definitely definitely thisis this is good you thought the
engineer wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
No, I'm just thinking about our whole talk and I'm
actually anticipating, you know,the things that are coming up
more, and we're going to getmore into the conversations that
you talked about in terms oftherapeutics later on and we'll
talk about oh my gosh, this isexciting.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Right, we've got 2025 to do it.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
So, dr Tony, what is coming up in the next
installment of the year ofmenopause?
With black boomer besties fromBrooklyn, what might you be
bringing us?
Speaker 3 (34:40):
I love your name.
I think coming up is whatpeople really, really want to
know.
You know, what do I need to doto treat my symptoms or help my
symptoms or help me go throughthis.
So we're going to break it downinto the different areas of the
body.
I think I mentioned last timethat estrogen receptors is over
(35:01):
400 within the body from the topof your head to the hair on
your head, all the way down toyour tippy toes.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Wow.
Estrogen affects it all down toyour tippy toes.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Estrogen affects it all.
So we're going to startbreaking the body down and
talking about the differentareas, whether it's the cardiac,
the bones, the brain that thingthat they say brain fog is real
, it's a real thing and we'regoing to go deeper into those
(35:34):
things and and try and explain,uh, what it is the, the, the,
the loss, or I shouldn't say theloss, because the japanese
actually do not think it as aloss of estrogen.
They think of it as a change inthe balance of their hormones.
I read that today and I waslike, oh that's interesting they
don't think it as a loss.
(35:54):
It's a change it's so we'regoing to talk about how the
changes of the hormones affectthe different areas of the body
and what we can do to treat themwhile you're going through the
changes and prior to, because Ithink I mentioned the last time
that a lot of this stuff, weneed to be working on this stuff
(36:14):
before we actually reach thislisten.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
As soon as that call finished, as soon as you, we
hung up, I went and got thecentral I've been taking it
every day.
I'm like jody was like y'allbetter get on you, get'all
better get your Centrum 50s.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Yes, your women's Centrum 50.
It's been known to help withthe brain and you know I can't
take the tablets.
Those tablets are huge.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
They are huge.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
So I have to get the gummies, but I have to buy them
in bulk because they go so fast.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Those gummies go really fast.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
I see, I see, but I can't take the pills.
They're huge, they're humongous, they are.
But yeah, so we're going to doa deep dive.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Okay, this is going to be.
I'm looking forward to this.
So here's another thing thatI'm going to take away from this
.
I'm not going to say that I'mlosing my memory.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I'm going to say that my memory is shifting to more
important parts of my body.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Absolutely, yeah, let's see how that works.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
We're not no, but the idea of rebalancing is really
beautiful.
Right, it is, it's, it's acontinuum and it's yeah yeah
right oh, I look forward to it.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
well, it, it's not a lot, I think this has been great
, Right?
Speaker 1 (37:33):
Oh well, well, Chef Kiss, Dr Toni Otway, Thank you.
I look forward to our nextsegment next month or in a
number of weeks, but keep thecomments coming everyone and we
(37:54):
really got good feedback andpeople very interested in this
project and I really think it'sgoing to be helpful.
So at that I'll say this hasbeen another episode of Black
Boomer Besties from Brooklyn.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Thank you.
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