May 13, 2025 • 43 mins
Licensed Clinical Psychologist Dr. Kimani Norrington-Sands returns with co-host Social Worker Marissa Price to discuss their annual Job Liberation Summit, a virtual event designed to help Black women escape toxic workplaces on their own timeline with support and resources.
• Toxic jobs trigger our brain's fear response, preventing access to the areas of the brain needed for planning
• Chronic workplace stress causes physiologic harm which can lead to accelerated aging of organs
• Black women often stay in harmful jobs due to financial concerns or fear starting over
• The Job Liberation Summit provides comprehensive resources including financial exit planning, health insurance considerations, and retirement options
• Community support from other Black women provides validation and healing from workplace trauma
• Skills learned at the summit can be applied to other toxic situations beyond the workplace
Register for the Job Liberation Summit happening May 16-18, 2023, with bonus sessions through May 21st. Register here:
https://2025jobliberationsummit.heysummit.com/?ac=KmQBDvM5
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey Ange.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hey Liz, how you doing.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Doing great.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Yeah, you look good You've recovered from our
reunion weekend.
Not quite yet.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
But the physical therapist says I'm doing better.
That castor oil that you.
The castor oil and the dancingall night it's going to work,
it's going to work.
The castor oil and the dancingall night it's going to work,
it's going to work.
So I'd like to say welcome toanother episode of Black Boomer
Besties from Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I'm Angella and that's Leslie, my best friend of
almost 50 years.
We are two free-thinking60-something-year-old Black
women who've decided to live ourlives more boldly and more
joyfully, and we invite you tojoin us along our journey.
Today, we have some specialguests to the summit that
(01:01):
they're going to be hosting,because there is nothing more
joy-sucking than being in a jobthat no longer serves you.
We have you guys have seen DrKimani Nordin-Sands before.
She's been here a few times,been our guest, and the last
(01:21):
time she was with us in January,I think it was.
We definitely will put a linkto that last episode.
Dr Kimani is on a mission andshe clearly has brought others
along, because the other guestthat we have today is Marissa
(01:42):
Price, and they are co-hosting asummit, a job liberation summit
.
It's a virtual summit and it isgoing to teach you everything
you need to know to leave thejob that's no longer serving you
.
That's no longer serving you,and I'm going to leave it there
(02:10):
and I'm going to ask Dr Kimanito introduce yourself and then
we'll go over to.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Marissa.
Thank you, angela and Leslie,so happy to be here.
So my name is Dr Kimani.
I'm a licensed clinicalpsychologist.
I've been licensed for over 20years.
I'm also a toxic job survivorso I can definitely relate to
being in a soul-sucking job andhow harmful that can be.
I am now a toxic job liberatorfor Black women and also the
(02:33):
co-founder of the second annualJob Liberation Virtual Summit
for Black women with MarissaPrice and I have a YouTube
channel called Lifting as weClimb Consulting Wellness
Services where I talk to Blackwomen no matter where you are in
the world, no matter what yourjob situation is.
I talk to Black women to offersupport and to share resources
(02:59):
Again my YouTube channel isLifting as we Climb Consulting,
wellness Services, all right.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Thank you and Marissa , yes, I am Marissa Price.
I am a social worker.
I am a healing practitioner,also a freelancing advocate for
Black women, so freelancing wasmy pathway out of a very toxic,
traumatic work experience.
Kamani's channel worked as hervirtual assistant for a little
(03:24):
over a year and thentransitioned to my own business
as a solopreneur and nowco-hosting the Job Liberation
Virtual Summit for Black women,providing resources, knowledge,
safe community for Black womento be able to make their exit
plans on their timelines fromjobs that are not serving them
right, and this has impactedBlack women globally.
(03:45):
And so just to see the markthat it has left already and
this is our second year hostingit is really profound and
something that means a lot toboth of us, so I'm very happy to
be here.
Thank you for having me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Awesome.
Listen, I just want to saysomething right out the gate,
out the gate.
What I want to kind ofhighlight, and what Marissa has
just said, is the paths thathave been created.
Right, she talked about leaving.
She talked about being virtualassistant.
(04:18):
She talked about finding DrKimani, because Dr Kimani is out
here.
She is out here giving theinformation Marissa found.
Her went from virtual assistantnow hosting a second summit.
These are new pathways thathave been created and oftentimes
(04:39):
when we think about our jobs,we think about these roles, we
think about these kind of setways of doing things.
Especially as older folks likeLeslie and I, we have these
single ways that we think aboutdoing things.
We don't often think abouttributaries and new pathways and
(04:59):
work and pathways in how wethink, and I just wanted to call
that out because that's justwhat I thought.
I'm like look at that, shefound a way, she found a way,
that's all.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Well, what I want to say before I forget, because you
are one of the people I reallymost admire.
I've met you quite some timeago virtually.
I've met you quite some timeago virtually, and I've been
really following your workbecause I'm proud of the courage
(05:34):
that you always show in sharinga traumatic story and I think
the effectiveness to youraudience and certainly I'll
speak to me personally is thatyou are a person who has lived
trauma and instead of takingthat trauma inward and suffering
(05:55):
inward, you've spoken about itand re-traumatized yourself and
your audience and the people wholisten to you and care about
you.
We feel that Wow.
So it's really moving to me andif I've not told you that before
, I got to tell you.
When I visit your pages onLinkedIn and read some of the
(06:16):
stories and the things that youtell, it touches me.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Wow, thank you, I received that.
I received that.
Wow, thank you, I received that.
I received that.
And I know, angela, you askedme earlier if I know that I am
inspiring others and I wassaying how surreal it is for me
to think that, on one level, yes, it fills my heart up, it fills
my soul to know that I'mhelping other black women.
(06:41):
At the same time something I'mstill struggling with again, I'm
in a healing journey becauseI've left I resigned about two
and a half three years ago stillin that healing journey.
Part of the healing that I'mstill dealing with is coming to
terms with.
This is how I'm inspiringpeople, yet accepting what all
(07:02):
that I had to go through to getto this point.
Right, and so you know, likeyou said, angela, like really
sit with that and think aboutcoming to terms with that so I
don't have to keep going backand questioning like why did
this happen to me?
Why did this happen to me?
And I really need to work onthat, because this is a very
(07:23):
personal, to work on that,because this is a very personal,
vulnerable state that I am.
When I'm on YouTube, I'm oftentalking about my own trauma and
a toxic job and I'm providingspace for other Black women.
So I'm hearing their stories andproviding support, because that
is part of my healing, becauseI know that I need to get this
(07:43):
toxicity out of my system Right,and part of what I also know
that me being vocal about it ismy healing too, because as a job
, there were so many things thatthey did.
Yesterday I did a video withElle and I was very open about a
lot.
I talked about the whole thingthat happened to me when I was
at this hospital.
I laid it all out.
(08:04):
I talked about the whole thingthat happened to me when I was
at this hospital.
I laid it all out right, and tobe able to talk about it and
just to see her expressionmirrored back to me was how
ridiculous and traumatic it was,and to be able to share that
it's therapeutic for me.
And I know when she wasmirroring back to me, I was like
they were trying to break me.
They really were trying tobreak me.
(08:25):
They really were trying tobreak me.
And so being able to see thatand saying you know what?
You tried to break me, but shedidn't break me.
In fact, you transitioned me toa different position, just like
Marissa transitioned to adifferent position.
So now I've transitioned.
I've pivoted in differentdirections to help liberate
other Black women, but it'shealing for me too.
(08:45):
Okay, it's healing for me too,and when?
you talk about how, as Blackpeople, or just anybody, when we
get used to doing something thesame way we go to a job we have
like, okay, this is going tohappen, I know I got to do this
we come these very structuredways of being Neuroplasticity
right, and this is what I wantBlack people to see, black women
(09:07):
to see is that, even though youmight be in a toxic job now,
you are able to pivot and formnew connections in your brain.
So you might think there's noway out for me.
I got to stay here.
I'm 50.
I got to stay here.
There's no way I can go to usbecause all jobs are toxic.
Right, there's other ways forus to be, but developing those
(09:30):
new pathways when we're exposedto new information and we start
doing things in a different wayNow.
We're developing new pathways inour brain and I'll also, if I
could just take a moment, totalk about, just biologically,
what happens to so many ofanybody, humans, just in general
.
What many of us are goingthrough in a toxic job is that
(09:50):
we perceive that the environmentis not safe for us.
So we see it, since this is nota psychologically safe
environment.
So in our brain we have theamygdala I know Leslie knows
this.
We have the amygdala and theamygdala is perceiving oh my God
, we're in a dangerous situation.
Fight, flight or freeze.
Right, we need to freeze, and Ithink that's what's happening
(10:13):
to a lot of Black women,particularly 50 and over, that
we get in this.
Oh my God, this place is unsafe.
Oh my God.
Look at the job market.
Oh my God.
Look at the chaos and confusion.
Look at my fear of 401k, Lookat all these things.
So that's causing a lot of fear.
So the amygdala takes over.
So now you're not able toaccess your prefrontal cortex.
(10:34):
Your prefrontal cortex, that'swhere planning, organization and
judgment happens.
So if the amygdala is takingover, you can't even foresee the
possibility of leaving a jobthat you've outgrown.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
That's harming you.
Or, let's say, you got laid off, you are in crisis survival
mode.
So what we hope to do duringthe summit is to provide a safer
space for Black women.
Okay, because it's all Blackwomen that we are all there
together, similar experiences,but pouring into one another.
You could turn down thatsurvival brain as Black women
(11:09):
and access the information.
So now you can plan, you canorganize and you can use your
judgment about when is it that Iwant to leave or, if I've
already been laid off, let mesee what my options are, because
many of us are in this crisisstuck mode and we can't even see
what the options are or we shutit down, right.
(11:30):
No, I got to stay here.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
No, I'm going to stick it out.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
No, I got to stay here because I retire.
That's crisis trauma responsemode and being able to call it
out for what it is and tonormalize it.
It's a normal experience.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
It's normal, right, right.
The only one thing I want tosay about that because, man, I
was just thinking about when youreally talked about what goes
on in the brain when you're inthese circumstances I can also
say what happens in the body andone of the things that we may
feel proud or it's okay.
And one of the things that wemay feel proud or it's okay.
(12:05):
We've been through it this long.
I'm 50 years old.
I'm 60 years old.
I can deal with it just alittle while longer.
You may not realize, but aconstant trauma and flight and
fight.
It changes your heart Increasedcortisol and stress hormones.
It remodels your heart and yourvasculature.
(12:29):
So in bodies like mine, 63years old, I have a vasculature
of an older woman.
I don't realize that constantcortisol increases in my body is
changing my blood pressure,it's increasing demand on my
heart and I wonder, and thisfatigue and stress, it becomes a
(12:50):
cycle where you're doing yourown self-harm.
If you say, I'm going to stickit out, for who, for what?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
That part.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yeah, and also when you cause, I was thinking about
like even weathering.
So your organs are aging withall that chronic stress.
So you may not even know I'm 54, right, I don't know how old my
organs are, but if I would havestayed in that environment with
that chronic stress, I couldimagine that my organs would
(13:22):
have been much older right Than54.
So for us to keep in mind thereis a physical toll and there's
a psychological toll.
There's even a spiritual toll,because when I was at that job
and all that terrible stuff washappening to me, I would.
I would literally ask like godwhy are you doing this to me?
Speaker 4 (13:41):
why are you doing this to me?
Speaker 3 (13:42):
I'm a good person, I'm a fantastic employee.
This doesn't make any sense.
Why you?
Why are you doing this to me?
Why are you doing this to me?
I'm a good person, I'm afantastic employee.
This doesn't make any sense.
Why are you making me sufferlike this?
What's?
Speaker 4 (13:50):
happening here.
Why would you do that?
And so?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
I was mad.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
I was like what is going on here?
Speaker 3 (13:56):
And so my therapist black woman therapist who's also
very spiritual she's likelisten, I need for you to look
at this in a different way.
Okay, I don't think that God ispunishing you.
I think that God is saving you.
I think God is rescuing youfrom this environment because,
you don't belong here.
You belong somewhere bigger andbetter.
(14:17):
And God is telling you.
See, all those signs God's beengiving you and you've been
ignoring and you've beenignoring you.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yes, so you need this .
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Now he's shouting yes .
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Right, you missed the whisper.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Exactly, and so being able to be in spaces like
therapy or good friendships,where you're able to talk to
people about what's happening toyou, and for somebody to
reality test back and say, girl,no, that's not you, that's that
place, and I need for you topay attention to the harm that
being in this environment ishaving on you and for us to
(14:49):
listen to that too.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Wow.
So and I one of the things thatI want to ask about the summit
specifically, because I know youhave a lot of speakers coming,
you give so much content away,you have your YouTube channel,
(15:16):
you have a lot of resources onyour website, so for someone
who's thinking, I'll just watcheverything you've ever produced,
I'll just get educated throughthose channels, why would you
tell them to still come to thesummit?
(15:38):
What is kind of the space thatyou've created within the summit
?
That would be different,special, would be more
transformative than doing it thefree 99 way.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Right.
So my YouTube channel is a wayit's really a healing space for
us as Black women to feelvalidated.
So that's the main purpose ofmy YouTube channel is, like I
see you, I hear you, I feel you,I understand you are not alone,
right?
The second thing is that I wantmy YouTube channel to know that
Black women, we have options.
We don't have to stay in theseenvironments.
(16:17):
And number three is I want toshare resources.
Okay, so I can share some things, but it's a lot of things I'm
not an expert in, and so that'swhy I lean into other Black
women.
Like you got to help me withsomething, because when I was at
that toxic job trying totransition out, I knew I needed
coaching, so I started workingwith Black women coaches.
I knew I needed help with myfinancial exit plan, so I
(16:39):
started working with Dr RocheBrown as a financial
psychologist, because I didn'tknow how to do that.
And so when Marissa and I cametogether and Marissa came up
with the idea for having asummit I'll have her talk a
little bit more about thatmotivation year we thought about
(17:02):
what are all the issues that ablack woman would need to know
and address and get a handle onso that she would have the
information.
So once she's ready to pivot onher own terms, when she's ready
to go or if she's already left,what she'll be able to do.
We covered all those bases, soit's not like somebody said oh,
I got to go on YouTube, I got togo on Google, I got to try to
figure it all out.
I'm trying to copy it alltogether and try to figure out.
(17:23):
No, you are learning from Blackwomen who have done the thing
and they're experts in this area.
So that's where they are, thesummit speakers.
So how do we learn from oneanother?
I don't know all thisinformation and.
I'm humble enough to say Idon't know no-transcript.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Yeah, so the motivation was to have
information resources in oneplace so that, again, if you are
in survival mode which a lot ofthese jobs place us in right,
where Dr Kamani shared you don'talways have the access, the
capacity to make your exit plan,to know that it's in one place,
right, and replays areavailable.
So if you do have to step awayduring a live summit, you can go
back and watch the information,but to know that you have that
(18:30):
in one place, your exit plan isliterally waiting for you when
you're able to access it.
I think that's the purpose ofthe summit, it also being in Dr
Kamani's chats, right, I had noidea what was happening to me at
the time.
I was in that toxic jobenvironment and the power of
community, I think, is one ofthe other components of the
summit For other people, otherBlack women globally, to be able
(18:53):
to reflect back to you.
This also happened to me.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
And it's not you right.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
There's a deep level of healing that occurs when you
see that it's not just you andthat this is, in fact, like
something that has happened toso many of us over and over
again due to systemic racism,sexism, right that exists in the
world and so that reallypowerful component of community
being in a safe environment.
(19:17):
We have privacy considerations,so no attendees will be shown
on camera and you can alsochange your name after
registering, because some ofthese jobs right surveillance is
real.
And so to have that in place toknow that you're in a safe
environment.
Low pressure, no pressure.
You can make your plan on yourtimeline timeline and I think,
(19:42):
both of us being mental healthprofessionals why we realize
that if you try to rush someonethrough a process of change,
that can create even more trauma, and so to take this on your
own pace, on your own timeline,but to know that the information
is waiting there for you in oneplace.
I think is the purpose of thesummit.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
There's something I want to share before you get
into that, ange.
I've been thinking, certainlysince I've known you, dr Kimani.
I've said, you know, I don'tthink that I've really been in a
toxic job in my past, throughthe years, and then it hit me,
believe it or not, some of thetoxicity was coming from myself
(20:24):
and, let me, it was a revelationthat was.
It's actually recent when Istarted thinking about you and
our conversation A number ofyears ago.
I stayed in a job because itwas comfortable, because it was
easy.
It was not serving me at all.
(20:56):
I was a single parent.
At the time.
I was from my own mind.
I was afraid.
I said, and my friends and Ihad my people saying you know,
you want to go to medical school, you want to do this, you want
to do this, why don't you do it?
And I was stuck.
I did not know how am I goingto survive, how am I going to
(21:19):
feed?
I'm a single parent, I supportmy son and who was going to take
care of him?
All of these negative thingswere in my mind.
I was just thinking.
A summit like this where all ofthese people were put together
and just showing me steps thatit took me years to figure out
on my own.
Yes that part, yes that part,yes.
(21:41):
So what I'm saying is it's likeat first I really couldn't
identify with not an externalsource creating havoc, but I was
locking myself in a position.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
That's the common In a position.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
The fear.
You're locked in and it's likeI can't stay here, but I can't
get out of it either.
Yes, yes and yeah.
That just hit me the other dayand I was like, wow, Les.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
And it took years it really took years to break out
of that.
And I look back and it's like,wow, why didn't I do this sooner
?
Speaker 3 (22:25):
But I was stuck, I couldn't recognizing the fear is
a normal part of the process.
So how do we embrace the fearas a normal part of the process
(22:46):
For us?
We feel the fear and then we gofight, flight or freeze and we
think that means stay.
No, there are situations that,no, you need to flee right.
But in these job situations wehave misconstrued the fear
meaning stay.
No, it is not it just means whatdo we need to do to prepare
(23:06):
ourselves, which is why thesummit is created to help
prepare, so that all the issuesthat you could think about about
replacing your income, multiplestreams of income, what's about
your health insurance, what's'sabout your retirement all those
big fears are addressed and, asmarissa said, you're a
(23:26):
community with other black women, so you don't feel like you're
alone on this path yeah thatright there I, you know,
sometimes because Black women wetend to be like MacGyver, you
know we can.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Jamaica, you say you can make life.
You know you can figure thingsout.
You can bubble gum this here,put a bandaid on that, put a rug
band around that, put some tapeup on there and you kind of
cobble things together to makethem work what this summit is
about.
How about if you just came toone place where everything that
(24:13):
you needed to help you was there?
How about giving yourself thatgift?
And that this change that youwant to the access beyond the.
I think the dates are the 16thto the 18th.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
We have the three bonus sessions too.
We'll talk about the bonussessions.
What are those?
So the bonus sessions are inthe evening, so after the summit
.
There's three bonus sessions.
So the first one is with DrRoche Brown.
So she is the Black womanfinancial psychologist who.
I work with to get my financialexit plan together.
So she's going to be talkingabout creating that financial
(25:10):
exit plan based upon yourtimeline.
When do you want to go?
If you've already left?
What are the financialconsiderations you need to get
in place?
She's also going to talk aboutwhat to do about your retirement
and what to do about healthinsurance.
So that's that first day,that's that Monday, that Tuesday
is oh it's, oh my.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
God, jenna Sutherland , jenna Sutherland, jenna
Sutherland.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
And she's going to be talking to Black women 50 and
above, about ways that we canpivot, because once we get 50,
that fear gets heightened.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Oh my.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
God, I'm 50.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
I cannot do it anymore.
Exactly I'm stuck now.
It's just too late.
I'm vested.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
You know I got my retirement, I'm waiting for my
kid to graduate.
I got all these things.
So Janice is going to betalking about how black women,
50 and above, can pivot.
And then the third day is ourlast bonus session.
That's where Jackie Abram andshe's going to talk about when
you're still in a job and, let'ssay, you're not able to pivot
(26:12):
out right away because most ofus, it takes time to create an
exit plan.
What are the things that youcan do to survive being in that
workplace until you create yourexit plan?
So, those are the three bonussessions after the summit, right
?
So you have the regular tier oftickets where you get the six,
(26:33):
the eight, tell about theregular, tell about the tiers.
I feel like I'm not doing itjustice.
So, Marissa, talk about thetears okay, yes, yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
So the standard liberation pass will give you
access to the Fridays.
So Friday is the kickoff withCoach Yolanda She'll be leading
us through a guided meditationsession and then the two full
days, so Saturday and Sunday.
Saturday is really aboutreclaiming yourself, and we have
10 sessions on Saturday, andthen we have 10 sessions on
(27:15):
Sunday.
Sunday is really about makingyour exit strategy, and so the
Liberation Standard Pass givesyou access to that replays if
you need longer to access theinformation.
To let it simmer a little bit,in addition to the bonus
sessions, the three bonussessions that Dr Kamani just
laid out, on the Monday, tuesdayand Wednesday, following the
weekend of the summit, and, likeshe said, they're in the
(27:37):
evening, they're on Zoom, somore intimate setting, and
they're also recorded If youcan't actually attend a live
session the replays will be sentout.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Okay, perfect, perfect.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I want to also kind of call out the care that I hear
in the way that this has beenplanned right.
I hear in the way that this hasbeen planned right, the way
that you have considered what'screating the fear to come to
something like this right.
Who allows people to come inand change their names.
(28:12):
Who's thinking about that?
Really Like these things shouldbe an indicator to you that
these people are mindful of thethings that matter to you.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (28:29):
That's what these?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
little things.
I call them significant smalls.
They're these little thingsthat people do to show you that
they see you, and so when yousaid that, I'm like wow.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Wow, who would think of that?
But you know who would think ofthat, someone who has
experienced that and they knowwhat their personal concerns
were and what was some of thebarriers that kept them in that
situation.
So long you know what wasreally moving to me when you
said, marissa, what happens onFriday when it's a guided
(29:07):
meditation session?
So, in other words, we want toquiet your mind and allow you to
push some things out so thatyou could receive all of this
package that you're about toundertake.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
You know you've got to come in quiet and open.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
You know, and I love the fact that and prioritizing
ourselves.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Yes, which?
Is really a lot for us as blackwomen because we always
prioritize other people overourselves Right.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
So this is a time for us to prioritize ourselves and
get our plans together.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, it's like if I could just disclose something
that happened before we startedrecording.
Dr Kimani came from a sessionand she probably was just a
minute late, but anyway,apologize for getting here late
and so on, and we all recognizethat she needed to just pause a
little bit, right.
I mean sometimes you just needto do that before running into
(30:08):
the next, and that's what itfelt like.
It's like, okay, we're givingher space to just do a little
woosah, that's what, that's what.
(30:40):
Yeah, that is the those.
So we're not going to be ableto be there live, but we're
definitely going to be consumersof this content because,
whether you're in a toxic job ornot, there's probably stuff
that you're going to learn fromthis that could move you to any
other toxic situation that youare in.
(31:02):
I won't call out some of thecommon toxic situations that you
may be in that may cause you tohave to plan an exit strategy,
that may cause you to have tokind of see options that you may
not be seeing right now.
So there may be other thingsand I don't want to kind of move
(31:23):
anyone too much, but what Ihear is toxicity.
And I know that there are thingsthat will be taught to you in
the summit that can be used forother toxic situations that you
find yourself in.
I mean, is that true?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
You are completely correct.
I got to tell you.
I love that you said that,because many people who know
that I was recently divorcedafter a long marriage and so
many of the feelings of fear, somany of the ideas and the
self-doubt and can I do it?
(32:06):
And the increased cortisollevels through this, you know
difficulty, especially duringthe ending of my marriage,
whether they're jobs ormarriages or relationships with
other people or friendships orfamily situations that we don't
know how to get out of.
I don't have enough money tolive on my own.
(32:29):
I may have to pay alimony.
What am I going to do?
I have little children.
Let's wait until the childrenare grown.
How many times have we heardthat?
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Yes, so the quality of your life while you're
waiting for them and the qualityof your children's life.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
What are you modeling for them?
By staying in situations thatmommy and daddy are not happy?
They're not living their bestlives.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Yeah, yeah, wow.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
I'm so glad you brought up about what are we
modeling specifically for?
If you have kids, what are youmodeling?
For the kids.
So when you think about beingin any toxic environment, you
have to think what are my kidssaying from this?
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Older kids too.
It's not just children at home,older kids too.
And do I?
Speaker 3 (33:17):
want them to believe that it's okay to stay in any
environment that's harming them.
Yeah, is that what I want themto know, right?
Or do I want them to know?
You clock it for what it is andthen you start preparing
yourself so you can pivot out,but you need to have a plan.
You need to have plans in place.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Right, right, beautiful, all right, that's how
we do it on time.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
You're my timekeeper, I know we're doing okay, we're
coming up toward the end, but Ijust want to make sure that
we're going to include all ofthe links to the summit.
We we're going to include allof the links to the summit.
We'll give information abouthow to reach you all personally,
as well your contacts and yoursocials, because even when this
(34:06):
summit is over, like I said, Ibenefit from knowing you and
reading your content and and andthings that come across my feed
.
It's very helpful, you know.
I see that.
The universal extension oh mygoodness.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
We just recently got a comment from your episode that
you were a guest on in Januarythat said oh, I needed this.
Yeah, and I just added well,guess what, you're in luck
because it just happened back inJanuary.
They were like I needed thisand I'm like yeah, yeah, we do.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
We're here for you.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
That's amazing how like the universe provides for
when people need things.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Right.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Even like how I met Marissa.
So Marissa was watching myvideos and she was commenting on
my videos and everything.
And it was at a time that Ineeded a new VA.
And I remember Marissa writingin the chat that she was a VA
and I found out how to reach outto her.
And you, marissa, writing thechat that she was a VA and I
reached out.
I found out how to reach out toher and you know I'm
researchers.
I found out how to reach out toher.
I said can we schedule ameeting?
(35:22):
And we started working togetherimmediately.
So it's like amazing universe.
That's how we met.
And now Marissa.
When she was like I need totransition out of VA service, I
was like no right, like oh no,but I am of.
I like to support people intheir growth yeah, so even
though Marissa is a phenomenalVA.
(35:43):
I just say you know what?
This is not her path anymore.
She wants to grow and I want tosupport her in growing and we
can still work together, butit's in a different capacity
that's right but, the universebrought it together.
I've met so many the way I'vemet you guys I've met so many
black women who are sosupportive of me yeah it is
(36:07):
absolutely mind-blowing.
It is absolutely mind-blowing.
I've created a virtualcommunity of black women, some
whom I've never met in person.
But it's just amazing to knowthis many black women that I'm
now connected to.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
It's true, it's true.
And what I was thinking earlierwas that you know how the
number of likes and subscribersyou have.
It's really just a smallrepresentation of the impact
that you have.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Yeah, it's really.
I mean it's really if you thinkabout it.
It's exponential, because I maylike a comment, but I'm also
speaking to other people andcarrying that, so it's.
It's just a smallrepresentation of that.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's amazing.
It really is amazing becauseI'm such a private person.
Honestly, I am such a privateperson.
Like four years ago, honestly,when I was at the Talk to Job,
people would send me likeLinkedIn requests and stuff.
I was like what is thisLinkedIn?
What is this Like?
Why do people keep sending methese LinkedIn?
(37:15):
What is this Like?
Why do people keep sending methis book?
What is this?
I don't want anything to do.
What is this Facebook?
Speaker 4 (37:18):
I couldn't stand it.
But, look at me now.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
I'm always on social media, like what, like.
Who is this person?
But again, like now, I've gonethrough such trauma that part of
my healing I've experiencedpost-traumatic growth.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
So gone through the trauma healing from the trauma.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Now I'm at a higher level, doing things I never
could have envisioned doingnever ever.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
That's how the universe meets you.
You take a step and he says allI need you to do is take a step
, right, right, and I will meetyou where you are and cover you
Exactly, I believe that.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Part of it, too, was I had to shift from fighting
right Because my fists were likethis I was fighting people.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
That's what we do, right.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
We fight these people , so I had to shift from this.
I was fighting people.
That's what we do, right Fightthese people.
So I had to shift from this.
So I release, I release it.
I release that toxicity, Irelease it, I release fighting
these people and I surrender toGod but, God to show me what
direction I'm going at.
So every day I wake up, God,you let me know what direction
you want me to go in.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Hallelujah.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Totally different perspective now.
Totally different perspectiveyes, and.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
I'm sure you feel that.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
This is what's called co creation.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Right, the free will, that part that's co-creating,
that is connected to the divine.
But it's what are you bringingin?
How are you stepping in?
What are you?
Speaker 3 (38:58):
saying yes to, what are you saying no to?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
You know what I mean and seeing how the Spirit leads
you in that, it's a phenomenalthing.
And so, leslie and I justreally want to encourage our
listeners to look at theinformation about the summit
that's in the description.
We want you to.
If you're not in situationsthat where this resonates for
(39:24):
you necessarily, you're probablystill watching because you know
someone who is feeling this andyou feel for them and you know
that they need help.
They're not listening to youanymore.
You've told them all, you'vetried everything um just send
them this link.
So they can learn more aboutthe summit.
(39:45):
That is your gift to them andum, and get the word out there
is, there is, there's help,there's, there's so much um that
has been thoughtful about theway that um, dr kimani and
marissa work.
You, you, you can hear thatalready.
You're going to be taken careof, you're going to be taken
care of.
(40:05):
We encourage you to check itout and join the summit.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Um, it's may 16th through 18th, 18 plus three
bonus sessions through the 21st,now Right with the three bonus
sessions.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
And yeah, you'll find all the links in our
description.
And, yeah, anything before wewrap that you want to share, dr
Kamani or Marissa, I just loveseeing you all in action.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
I mean just to see sisters together for this long
and pouring into one another,and just to me it really models
sisterhood.
I believe in sisterhood.
I'm a proud alum of Spelman.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
And.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
I believe in sisterhood and this is the
extension.
The summit is an extension ofsisterhood.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
And I'm just so grateful to both of you.
And I'm grateful to both of youthat you were both able to pour
into me today when you know Iwas like it's still right A part
of the healing journey.
Why did I have to go throughthis?
I'm happy for what I'm doingnow, I love what I'm doing right
(41:12):
now, but why did I have to gothrough this so really reminding
me that there's an area ofhealing that still needs to
happen?
Speaker 2 (41:21):
So I receive that.
I want to thank both of you forthat.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
You're welcome.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Marissa anything else before?
Speaker 4 (41:29):
we close.
Yeah, thank you so much forhaving me as a guest.
This has been a beautiful,healing experience for me,
awesome, and yeah, I just wantto share.
I guess you don't have to do italone, right?
You don't have to plan yourpivot, you don't have to gather
the information in isolation,because that can really be a
draining process that can kindof sink your ship before you
(41:51):
even get it sailing, right.
Yeah, kind of sink your shipbefore you even get it sailing,
right, yeah, um, so, being incommunity where we are pouring
into each other just as we've,done in this interview right in,
in reflecting back to eachother that we are so incredibly
powerful that's often why we'retargeted in these workplaces
right, because of our brilliance, because of our power, because
we see things much differentlythan other people, um, and to
(42:15):
reframe that as a strength andto get in community with other
black women who are on the samejourney.
Um, it's so special.
It's a very special place thatwe've curated, and we love for
you to attend the summit thankyou so much.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
I think, mercy you call it truth tellers that black
women were truth tellers.
I think that's what kind ofmakes us a target in the
workplace, and you know what'sso magical about this space
right now.
I was just literally justthought about this.
We have boomers, we have Gen Xand we have millennial.
So to show across all thegenerations how we're able to
(42:52):
come together and learn from oneanother and uplift one another
for sure.
It's a beautiful thing well, Ican't wait to see you all again
can't wait to be here again,yeah this is a great way to
close.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Thank you for listening.
This has been another episodeof Black Boomer Besties from
Brooklyn, brooklyn.
This has been another episodeof Black Boomer Besties from
Brooklyn.
Hey Ange.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hey Liz, how you doing.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Doing great.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Yeah, you look good You've recovered from our
reunion weekend.
Not quite yet.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
But the physical therapist says I'm doing better.
That castor oil that you.
The castor oil and the dancingall night it's going to work,
it's going to work.
The castor oil and the dancingall night it's going to work,
it's going to work.
So I'd like to say welcome toanother episode of Black Boomer
Besties from Brooklyn.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I'm Angella and that's Leslie, my best friend of
almost 50 years.
We are two free-thinking60-something-year-old Black
women who've decided to live ourlives more boldly and more
joyfully, and we invite you tojoin us along our journey.
Today, we have some specialguests to the summit that
(01:01):
they're going to be hosting,because there is nothing more
joy-sucking than being in a jobthat no longer serves you.
We have you guys have seen DrKimani Nordin-Sands before.
She's been here a few times,been our guest, and the last
(01:21):
time she was with us in January,I think it was.
We definitely will put a linkto that last episode.
Dr Kimani is on a mission andshe clearly has brought others
along, because the other guestthat we have today is Marissa
(01:42):
Price, and they are co-hosting asummit, a job liberation summit
.
It's a virtual summit and it isgoing to teach you everything
you need to know to leave thejob that's no longer serving you
.
That's no longer serving you,and I'm going to leave it there
(02:10):
and I'm going to ask Dr Kimanito introduce yourself and then
we'll go over to.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Marissa.
Thank you, angela and Leslie,so happy to be here.
So my name is Dr Kimani.
I'm a licensed clinicalpsychologist.
I've been licensed for over 20years.
I'm also a toxic job survivorso I can definitely relate to
being in a soul-sucking job andhow harmful that can be.
I am now a toxic job liberatorfor Black women and also the
(02:33):
co-founder of the second annualJob Liberation Virtual Summit
for Black women with MarissaPrice and I have a YouTube
channel called Lifting as weClimb Consulting Wellness
Services where I talk to Blackwomen no matter where you are in
the world, no matter what yourjob situation is.
I talk to Black women to offersupport and to share resources
(02:59):
Again my YouTube channel isLifting as we Climb Consulting,
wellness Services, all right.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Thank you and Marissa , yes, I am Marissa Price.
I am a social worker.
I am a healing practitioner,also a freelancing advocate for
Black women, so freelancing wasmy pathway out of a very toxic,
traumatic work experience.
Kamani's channel worked as hervirtual assistant for a little
(03:24):
over a year and thentransitioned to my own business
as a solopreneur and nowco-hosting the Job Liberation
Virtual Summit for Black women,providing resources, knowledge,
safe community for Black womento be able to make their exit
plans on their timelines fromjobs that are not serving them
right, and this has impactedBlack women globally.
(03:45):
And so just to see the markthat it has left already and
this is our second year hostingit is really profound and
something that means a lot toboth of us, so I'm very happy to
be here.
Thank you for having me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Awesome.
Listen, I just want to saysomething right out the gate,
out the gate.
What I want to kind ofhighlight, and what Marissa has
just said, is the paths thathave been created.
Right, she talked about leaving.
She talked about being virtualassistant.
(04:18):
She talked about finding DrKimani, because Dr Kimani is out
here.
She is out here giving theinformation Marissa found.
Her went from virtual assistantnow hosting a second summit.
These are new pathways thathave been created and oftentimes
(04:39):
when we think about our jobs,we think about these roles, we
think about these kind of setways of doing things.
Especially as older folks likeLeslie and I, we have these
single ways that we think aboutdoing things.
We don't often think abouttributaries and new pathways and
(04:59):
work and pathways in how wethink, and I just wanted to call
that out because that's justwhat I thought.
I'm like look at that, shefound a way, she found a way,
that's all.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Well, what I want to say before I forget, because you
are one of the people I reallymost admire.
I've met you quite some timeago virtually.
I've met you quite some timeago virtually, and I've been
really following your workbecause I'm proud of the courage
(05:34):
that you always show in sharinga traumatic story and I think
the effectiveness to youraudience and certainly I'll
speak to me personally is thatyou are a person who has lived
trauma and instead of takingthat trauma inward and suffering
(05:55):
inward, you've spoken about itand re-traumatized yourself and
your audience and the people wholisten to you and care about
you.
We feel that Wow.
So it's really moving to me andif I've not told you that before
, I got to tell you.
When I visit your pages onLinkedIn and read some of the
(06:16):
stories and the things that youtell, it touches me.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
Wow, thank you, I received that.
I received that.
Wow, thank you, I received that.
I received that.
And I know, angela, you askedme earlier if I know that I am
inspiring others and I wassaying how surreal it is for me
to think that, on one level, yes, it fills my heart up, it fills
my soul to know that I'mhelping other black women.
(06:41):
At the same time something I'mstill struggling with again, I'm
in a healing journey becauseI've left I resigned about two
and a half three years ago stillin that healing journey.
Part of the healing that I'mstill dealing with is coming to
terms with.
This is how I'm inspiringpeople, yet accepting what all
(07:02):
that I had to go through to getto this point.
Right, and so you know, likeyou said, angela, like really
sit with that and think aboutcoming to terms with that so I
don't have to keep going backand questioning like why did
this happen to me?
Why did this happen to me?
And I really need to work onthat, because this is a very
(07:23):
personal, to work on that,because this is a very personal,
vulnerable state that I am.
When I'm on YouTube, I'm oftentalking about my own trauma and
a toxic job and I'm providingspace for other Black women.
So I'm hearing their stories andproviding support, because that
is part of my healing, becauseI know that I need to get this
(07:43):
toxicity out of my system Right,and part of what I also know
that me being vocal about it ismy healing too, because as a job
, there were so many things thatthey did.
Yesterday I did a video withElle and I was very open about a
lot.
I talked about the whole thingthat happened to me when I was
at this hospital.
I laid it all out.
(08:04):
I talked about the whole thingthat happened to me when I was
at this hospital.
I laid it all out right, and tobe able to talk about it and
just to see her expressionmirrored back to me was how
ridiculous and traumatic it was,and to be able to share that
it's therapeutic for me.
And I know when she wasmirroring back to me, I was like
they were trying to break me.
They really were trying tobreak me.
(08:25):
They really were trying tobreak me.
And so being able to see thatand saying you know what?
You tried to break me, but shedidn't break me.
In fact, you transitioned me toa different position, just like
Marissa transitioned to adifferent position.
So now I've transitioned.
I've pivoted in differentdirections to help liberate
other Black women, but it'shealing for me too.
(08:45):
Okay, it's healing for me too,and when?
you talk about how, as Blackpeople, or just anybody, when we
get used to doing something thesame way we go to a job we have
like, okay, this is going tohappen, I know I got to do this
we come these very structuredways of being Neuroplasticity
right, and this is what I wantBlack people to see, black women
(09:07):
to see is that, even though youmight be in a toxic job now,
you are able to pivot and formnew connections in your brain.
So you might think there's noway out for me.
I got to stay here.
I'm 50.
I got to stay here.
There's no way I can go to usbecause all jobs are toxic.
Right, there's other ways forus to be, but developing those
(09:30):
new pathways when we're exposedto new information and we start
doing things in a different wayNow.
We're developing new pathways inour brain and I'll also, if I
could just take a moment, totalk about, just biologically,
what happens to so many ofanybody, humans, just in general
.
What many of us are goingthrough in a toxic job is that
(09:50):
we perceive that the environmentis not safe for us.
So we see it, since this is nota psychologically safe
environment.
So in our brain we have theamygdala I know Leslie knows
this.
We have the amygdala and theamygdala is perceiving oh my God
, we're in a dangerous situation.
Fight, flight or freeze.
Right, we need to freeze, and Ithink that's what's happening
(10:13):
to a lot of Black women,particularly 50 and over, that
we get in this.
Oh my God, this place is unsafe.
Oh my God.
Look at the job market.
Oh my God.
Look at the chaos and confusion.
Look at my fear of 401k, Lookat all these things.
So that's causing a lot of fear.
So the amygdala takes over.
So now you're not able toaccess your prefrontal cortex.
(10:34):
Your prefrontal cortex, that'swhere planning, organization and
judgment happens.
So if the amygdala is takingover, you can't even foresee the
possibility of leaving a jobthat you've outgrown.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
That's harming you.
Or, let's say, you got laid off, you are in crisis survival
mode.
So what we hope to do duringthe summit is to provide a safer
space for Black women.
Okay, because it's all Blackwomen that we are all there
together, similar experiences,but pouring into one another.
You could turn down thatsurvival brain as Black women
(11:09):
and access the information.
So now you can plan, you canorganize and you can use your
judgment about when is it that Iwant to leave or, if I've
already been laid off, let mesee what my options are, because
many of us are in this crisisstuck mode and we can't even see
what the options are or we shutit down, right.
(11:30):
No, I got to stay here.
Speaker 4 (11:32):
No, I'm going to stick it out.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
No, I got to stay here because I retire.
That's crisis trauma responsemode and being able to call it
out for what it is and tonormalize it.
It's a normal experience.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
It's normal, right, right.
The only one thing I want tosay about that because, man, I
was just thinking about when youreally talked about what goes
on in the brain when you're inthese circumstances I can also
say what happens in the body andone of the things that we may
feel proud or it's okay.
And one of the things that wemay feel proud or it's okay.
(12:05):
We've been through it this long.
I'm 50 years old.
I'm 60 years old.
I can deal with it just alittle while longer.
You may not realize, but aconstant trauma and flight and
fight.
It changes your heart Increasedcortisol and stress hormones.
It remodels your heart and yourvasculature.
(12:29):
So in bodies like mine, 63years old, I have a vasculature
of an older woman.
I don't realize that constantcortisol increases in my body is
changing my blood pressure,it's increasing demand on my
heart and I wonder, and thisfatigue and stress, it becomes a
(12:50):
cycle where you're doing yourown self-harm.
If you say, I'm going to stickit out, for who, for what?
Speaker 3 (12:59):
That part.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yeah, and also when you cause, I was thinking about
like even weathering.
So your organs are aging withall that chronic stress.
So you may not even know I'm 54, right, I don't know how old my
organs are, but if I would havestayed in that environment with
that chronic stress, I couldimagine that my organs would
(13:22):
have been much older right Than54.
So for us to keep in mind thereis a physical toll and there's
a psychological toll.
There's even a spiritual toll,because when I was at that job
and all that terrible stuff washappening to me, I would.
I would literally ask like godwhy are you doing this to me?
Speaker 4 (13:41):
why are you doing this to me?
Speaker 3 (13:42):
I'm a good person, I'm a fantastic employee.
This doesn't make any sense.
Why you?
Why are you doing this to me?
Why are you doing this to me?
I'm a good person, I'm afantastic employee.
This doesn't make any sense.
Why are you making me sufferlike this?
What's?
Speaker 4 (13:50):
happening here.
Why would you do that?
And so?
Speaker 3 (13:53):
I was mad.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
I was like what is going on here?
Speaker 3 (13:56):
And so my therapist black woman therapist who's also
very spiritual she's likelisten, I need for you to look
at this in a different way.
Okay, I don't think that God ispunishing you.
I think that God is saving you.
I think God is rescuing youfrom this environment because,
you don't belong here.
You belong somewhere bigger andbetter.
(14:17):
And God is telling you.
See, all those signs God's beengiving you and you've been
ignoring and you've beenignoring you.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Yes, so you need this .
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Now he's shouting yes .
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Right, you missed the whisper.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Exactly, and so being able to be in spaces like
therapy or good friendships,where you're able to talk to
people about what's happening toyou, and for somebody to
reality test back and say, girl,no, that's not you, that's that
place, and I need for you topay attention to the harm that
being in this environment ishaving on you and for us to
(14:49):
listen to that too.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Wow.
So and I one of the things thatI want to ask about the summit
specifically, because I know youhave a lot of speakers coming,
you give so much content away,you have your YouTube channel,
(15:16):
you have a lot of resources onyour website, so for someone
who's thinking, I'll just watcheverything you've ever produced,
I'll just get educated throughthose channels, why would you
tell them to still come to thesummit?
(15:38):
What is kind of the space thatyou've created within the summit
?
That would be different,special, would be more
transformative than doing it thefree 99 way.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Right.
So my YouTube channel is a wayit's really a healing space for
us as Black women to feelvalidated.
So that's the main purpose ofmy YouTube channel is, like I
see you, I hear you, I feel you,I understand you are not alone,
right?
The second thing is that I wantmy YouTube channel to know that
Black women, we have options.
We don't have to stay in theseenvironments.
(16:17):
And number three is I want toshare resources.
Okay, so I can share some things, but it's a lot of things I'm
not an expert in, and so that'swhy I lean into other Black
women.
Like you got to help me withsomething, because when I was at
that toxic job trying totransition out, I knew I needed
coaching, so I started workingwith Black women coaches.
I knew I needed help with myfinancial exit plan, so I
(16:39):
started working with Dr RocheBrown as a financial
psychologist, because I didn'tknow how to do that.
And so when Marissa and I cametogether and Marissa came up
with the idea for having asummit I'll have her talk a
little bit more about thatmotivation year we thought about
(17:02):
what are all the issues that ablack woman would need to know
and address and get a handle onso that she would have the
information.
So once she's ready to pivot onher own terms, when she's ready
to go or if she's already left,what she'll be able to do.
We covered all those bases, soit's not like somebody said oh,
I got to go on YouTube, I got togo on Google, I got to try to
figure it all out.
I'm trying to copy it alltogether and try to figure out.
(17:23):
No, you are learning from Blackwomen who have done the thing
and they're experts in this area.
So that's where they are, thesummit speakers.
So how do we learn from oneanother?
I don't know all thisinformation and.
I'm humble enough to say Idon't know no-transcript.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Yeah, so the motivation was to have
information resources in oneplace so that, again, if you are
in survival mode which a lot ofthese jobs place us in right,
where Dr Kamani shared you don'talways have the access, the
capacity to make your exit plan,to know that it's in one place,
right, and replays areavailable.
So if you do have to step awayduring a live summit, you can go
back and watch the information,but to know that you have that
(18:30):
in one place, your exit plan isliterally waiting for you when
you're able to access it.
I think that's the purpose ofthe summit, it also being in Dr
Kamani's chats, right, I had noidea what was happening to me at
the time.
I was in that toxic jobenvironment and the power of
community, I think, is one ofthe other components of the
summit For other people, otherBlack women globally, to be able
(18:53):
to reflect back to you.
This also happened to me.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
And it's not you right.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
There's a deep level of healing that occurs when you
see that it's not just you andthat this is, in fact, like
something that has happened toso many of us over and over
again due to systemic racism,sexism, right that exists in the
world and so that reallypowerful component of community
being in a safe environment.
(19:17):
We have privacy considerations,so no attendees will be shown
on camera and you can alsochange your name after
registering, because some ofthese jobs right surveillance is
real.
And so to have that in place toknow that you're in a safe
environment.
Low pressure, no pressure.
You can make your plan on yourtimeline timeline and I think,
(19:42):
both of us being mental healthprofessionals why we realize
that if you try to rush someonethrough a process of change,
that can create even more trauma, and so to take this on your
own pace, on your own timeline,but to know that the information
is waiting there for you in oneplace.
I think is the purpose of thesummit.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
There's something I want to share before you get
into that, ange.
I've been thinking, certainlysince I've known you, dr Kimani.
I've said, you know, I don'tthink that I've really been in a
toxic job in my past, throughthe years, and then it hit me,
believe it or not, some of thetoxicity was coming from myself
(20:24):
and, let me, it was a revelationthat was.
It's actually recent when Istarted thinking about you and
our conversation A number ofyears ago.
I stayed in a job because itwas comfortable, because it was
easy.
It was not serving me at all.
(20:56):
I was a single parent.
At the time.
I was from my own mind.
I was afraid.
I said, and my friends and Ihad my people saying you know,
you want to go to medical school, you want to do this, you want
to do this, why don't you do it?
And I was stuck.
I did not know how am I goingto survive, how am I going to
(21:19):
feed?
I'm a single parent, I supportmy son and who was going to take
care of him?
All of these negative thingswere in my mind.
I was just thinking.
A summit like this where all ofthese people were put together
and just showing me steps thatit took me years to figure out
on my own.
Yes that part, yes that part,yes.
(21:41):
So what I'm saying is it's likeat first I really couldn't
identify with not an externalsource creating havoc, but I was
locking myself in a position.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
That's the common In a position.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
The fear.
You're locked in and it's likeI can't stay here, but I can't
get out of it either.
Yes, yes and yeah.
That just hit me the other dayand I was like, wow, Les.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
And it took years it really took years to break out
of that.
And I look back and it's like,wow, why didn't I do this sooner
?
Speaker 3 (22:25):
But I was stuck, I couldn't recognizing the fear is
a normal part of the process.
So how do we embrace the fearas a normal part of the process
(22:46):
For us?
We feel the fear and then we gofight, flight or freeze and we
think that means stay.
No, there are situations that,no, you need to flee right.
But in these job situations wehave misconstrued the fear
meaning stay.
No, it is not it just means whatdo we need to do to prepare
(23:06):
ourselves, which is why thesummit is created to help
prepare, so that all the issuesthat you could think about about
replacing your income, multiplestreams of income, what's about
your health insurance, what's'sabout your retirement all those
big fears are addressed and, asmarissa said, you're a
(23:26):
community with other black women, so you don't feel like you're
alone on this path yeah thatright there I, you know,
sometimes because Black women wetend to be like MacGyver, you
know we can.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Jamaica, you say you can make life.
You know you can figure thingsout.
You can bubble gum this here,put a bandaid on that, put a rug
band around that, put some tapeup on there and you kind of
cobble things together to makethem work what this summit is
about.
How about if you just came toone place where everything that
(24:13):
you needed to help you was there?
How about giving yourself thatgift?
And that this change that youwant to the access beyond the.
I think the dates are the 16thto the 18th.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
We have the three bonus sessions too.
We'll talk about the bonussessions.
What are those?
So the bonus sessions are inthe evening, so after the summit
.
There's three bonus sessions.
So the first one is with DrRoche Brown.
So she is the Black womanfinancial psychologist who.
I work with to get my financialexit plan together.
So she's going to be talkingabout creating that financial
(25:10):
exit plan based upon yourtimeline.
When do you want to go?
If you've already left?
What are the financialconsiderations you need to get
in place?
She's also going to talk aboutwhat to do about your retirement
and what to do about healthinsurance.
So that's that first day,that's that Monday, that Tuesday
is oh it's, oh my.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
God, jenna Sutherland , jenna Sutherland, jenna
Sutherland.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
And she's going to be talking to Black women 50 and
above, about ways that we canpivot, because once we get 50,
that fear gets heightened.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Oh my.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
God, I'm 50.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
I cannot do it anymore.
Exactly I'm stuck now.
It's just too late.
I'm vested.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
You know I got my retirement, I'm waiting for my
kid to graduate.
I got all these things.
So Janice is going to betalking about how black women,
50 and above, can pivot.
And then the third day is ourlast bonus session.
That's where Jackie Abram andshe's going to talk about when
you're still in a job and, let'ssay, you're not able to pivot
(26:12):
out right away because most ofus, it takes time to create an
exit plan.
What are the things that youcan do to survive being in that
workplace until you create yourexit plan?
So, those are the three bonussessions after the summit, right
?
So you have the regular tier oftickets where you get the six,
(26:33):
the eight, tell about theregular, tell about the tiers.
I feel like I'm not doing itjustice.
So, Marissa, talk about thetears okay, yes, yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
So the standard liberation pass will give you
access to the Fridays.
So Friday is the kickoff withCoach Yolanda She'll be leading
us through a guided meditationsession and then the two full
days, so Saturday and Sunday.
Saturday is really aboutreclaiming yourself, and we have
10 sessions on Saturday, andthen we have 10 sessions on
(27:15):
Sunday.
Sunday is really about makingyour exit strategy, and so the
Liberation Standard Pass givesyou access to that replays if
you need longer to access theinformation.
To let it simmer a little bit,in addition to the bonus
sessions, the three bonussessions that Dr Kamani just
laid out, on the Monday, tuesdayand Wednesday, following the
weekend of the summit, and, likeshe said, they're in the
(27:37):
evening, they're on Zoom, somore intimate setting, and
they're also recorded If youcan't actually attend a live
session the replays will be sentout.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Okay, perfect, perfect.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
I want to also kind of call out the care that I hear
in the way that this has beenplanned right.
I hear in the way that this hasbeen planned right, the way
that you have considered what'screating the fear to come to
something like this right.
Who allows people to come inand change their names.
(28:12):
Who's thinking about that?
Really Like these things shouldbe an indicator to you that
these people are mindful of thethings that matter to you.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4 (28:29):
That's what these?
Speaker 2 (28:30):
little things.
I call them significant smalls.
They're these little thingsthat people do to show you that
they see you, and so when yousaid that, I'm like wow.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Wow, who would think of that?
But you know who would think ofthat, someone who has
experienced that and they knowwhat their personal concerns
were and what was some of thebarriers that kept them in that
situation.
So long you know what wasreally moving to me when you
said, marissa, what happens onFriday when it's a guided
(29:07):
meditation session?
So, in other words, we want toquiet your mind and allow you to
push some things out so thatyou could receive all of this
package that you're about toundertake.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
You know you've got to come in quiet and open.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
You know, and I love the fact that and prioritizing
ourselves.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Yes, which?
Is really a lot for us as blackwomen because we always
prioritize other people overourselves Right.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
So this is a time for us to prioritize ourselves and
get our plans together.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, it's like if I could just disclose something
that happened before we startedrecording.
Dr Kimani came from a sessionand she probably was just a
minute late, but anyway,apologize for getting here late
and so on, and we all recognizethat she needed to just pause a
little bit, right.
I mean sometimes you just needto do that before running into
(30:08):
the next, and that's what itfelt like.
It's like, okay, we're givingher space to just do a little
woosah, that's what, that's what.
(30:40):
Yeah, that is the those.
So we're not going to be ableto be there live, but we're
definitely going to be consumersof this content because,
whether you're in a toxic job ornot, there's probably stuff
that you're going to learn fromthis that could move you to any
other toxic situation that youare in.
(31:02):
I won't call out some of thecommon toxic situations that you
may be in that may cause you tohave to plan an exit strategy,
that may cause you to have tokind of see options that you may
not be seeing right now.
So there may be other thingsand I don't want to kind of move
(31:23):
anyone too much, but what Ihear is toxicity.
And I know that there are thingsthat will be taught to you in
the summit that can be used forother toxic situations that you
find yourself in.
I mean, is that true?
Speaker 1 (31:45):
You are completely correct.
I got to tell you.
I love that you said that,because many people who know
that I was recently divorcedafter a long marriage and so
many of the feelings of fear, somany of the ideas and the
self-doubt and can I do it?
(32:06):
And the increased cortisollevels through this, you know
difficulty, especially duringthe ending of my marriage,
whether they're jobs ormarriages or relationships with
other people or friendships orfamily situations that we don't
know how to get out of.
I don't have enough money tolive on my own.
(32:29):
I may have to pay alimony.
What am I going to do?
I have little children.
Let's wait until the childrenare grown.
How many times have we heardthat?
Speaker 3 (32:39):
Yes, so the quality of your life while you're
waiting for them and the qualityof your children's life.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
What are you modeling for them?
By staying in situations thatmommy and daddy are not happy?
They're not living their bestlives.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Yeah, yeah, wow.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
I'm so glad you brought up about what are we
modeling specifically for?
If you have kids, what are youmodeling?
For the kids.
So when you think about beingin any toxic environment, you
have to think what are my kidssaying from this?
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Older kids too.
It's not just children at home,older kids too.
And do I?
Speaker 3 (33:17):
want them to believe that it's okay to stay in any
environment that's harming them.
Yeah, is that what I want themto know, right?
Or do I want them to know?
You clock it for what it is andthen you start preparing
yourself so you can pivot out,but you need to have a plan.
You need to have plans in place.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Right, right, beautiful, all right, that's how
we do it on time.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
You're my timekeeper, I know we're doing okay, we're
coming up toward the end, but Ijust want to make sure that
we're going to include all ofthe links to the summit.
We we're going to include allof the links to the summit.
We'll give information abouthow to reach you all personally,
as well your contacts and yoursocials, because even when this
(34:06):
summit is over, like I said, Ibenefit from knowing you and
reading your content and and andthings that come across my feed
.
It's very helpful, you know.
I see that.
The universal extension oh mygoodness.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
We just recently got a comment from your episode that
you were a guest on in Januarythat said oh, I needed this.
Yeah, and I just added well,guess what, you're in luck
because it just happened back inJanuary.
They were like I needed thisand I'm like yeah, yeah, we do.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
We're here for you.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
That's amazing how like the universe provides for
when people need things.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Right.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Even like how I met Marissa.
So Marissa was watching myvideos and she was commenting on
my videos and everything.
And it was at a time that Ineeded a new VA.
And I remember Marissa writingin the chat that she was a VA
and I found out how to reach outto her.
And you, marissa, writing thechat that she was a VA and I
reached out.
I found out how to reach out toher and you know I'm
researchers.
I found out how to reach out toher.
I said can we schedule ameeting?
(35:22):
And we started working togetherimmediately.
So it's like amazing universe.
That's how we met.
And now Marissa.
When she was like I need totransition out of VA service, I
was like no right, like oh no,but I am of.
I like to support people intheir growth yeah, so even
though Marissa is a phenomenalVA.
(35:43):
I just say you know what?
This is not her path anymore.
She wants to grow and I want tosupport her in growing and we
can still work together, butit's in a different capacity
that's right but, the universebrought it together.
I've met so many the way I'vemet you guys I've met so many
black women who are sosupportive of me yeah it is
(36:07):
absolutely mind-blowing.
It is absolutely mind-blowing.
I've created a virtualcommunity of black women, some
whom I've never met in person.
But it's just amazing to knowthis many black women that I'm
now connected to.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
It's true, it's true.
And what I was thinking earlierwas that you know how the
number of likes and subscribersyou have.
It's really just a smallrepresentation of the impact
that you have.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Yeah, it's really.
I mean it's really if you thinkabout it.
It's exponential, because I maylike a comment, but I'm also
speaking to other people andcarrying that, so it's.
It's just a smallrepresentation of that.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's amazing.
It really is amazing becauseI'm such a private person.
Honestly, I am such a privateperson.
Like four years ago, honestly,when I was at the Talk to Job,
people would send me likeLinkedIn requests and stuff.
I was like what is thisLinkedIn?
What is this Like?
Why do people keep sending methese LinkedIn?
(37:15):
What is this Like?
Why do people keep sending methis book?
What is this?
I don't want anything to do.
What is this Facebook?
Speaker 4 (37:18):
I couldn't stand it.
But, look at me now.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
I'm always on social media, like what, like.
Who is this person?
But again, like now, I've gonethrough such trauma that part of
my healing I've experiencedpost-traumatic growth.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
So gone through the trauma healing from the trauma.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Now I'm at a higher level, doing things I never
could have envisioned doingnever ever.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
That's how the universe meets you.
You take a step and he says allI need you to do is take a step
, right, right, and I will meetyou where you are and cover you
Exactly, I believe that.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Part of it, too, was I had to shift from fighting
right Because my fists were likethis I was fighting people.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
That's what we do, right.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
We fight these people , so I had to shift from this.
I was fighting people.
That's what we do, right Fightthese people.
So I had to shift from this.
So I release, I release it.
I release that toxicity, Irelease it, I release fighting
these people and I surrender toGod but, God to show me what
direction I'm going at.
So every day I wake up, God,you let me know what direction
you want me to go in.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Hallelujah.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
Totally different perspective now.
Totally different perspectiveyes, and.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
I'm sure you feel that.
Speaker 2 (38:39):
This is what's called co creation.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Right, the free will, that part that's co-creating,
that is connected to the divine.
But it's what are you bringingin?
How are you stepping in?
What are you?
Speaker 3 (38:58):
saying yes to, what are you saying no to?
Speaker 2 (39:01):
You know what I mean and seeing how the Spirit leads
you in that, it's a phenomenalthing.
And so, leslie and I justreally want to encourage our
listeners to look at theinformation about the summit
that's in the description.
We want you to.
If you're not in situationsthat where this resonates for
(39:24):
you necessarily, you're probablystill watching because you know
someone who is feeling this andyou feel for them and you know
that they need help.
They're not listening to youanymore.
You've told them all, you'vetried everything um just send
them this link.
So they can learn more aboutthe summit.
(39:45):
That is your gift to them andum, and get the word out there
is, there is, there's help,there's, there's so much um that
has been thoughtful about theway that um, dr kimani and
marissa work.
You, you, you can hear thatalready.
You're going to be taken careof, you're going to be taken
care of.
(40:05):
We encourage you to check itout and join the summit.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Um, it's may 16th through 18th, 18 plus three
bonus sessions through the 21st,now Right with the three bonus
sessions.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
And yeah, you'll find all the links in our
description.
And, yeah, anything before wewrap that you want to share, dr
Kamani or Marissa, I just loveseeing you all in action.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
I mean just to see sisters together for this long
and pouring into one another,and just to me it really models
sisterhood.
I believe in sisterhood.
I'm a proud alum of Spelman.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
And.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
I believe in sisterhood and this is the
extension.
The summit is an extension ofsisterhood.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
And I'm just so grateful to both of you.
And I'm grateful to both of youthat you were both able to pour
into me today when you know Iwas like it's still right A part
of the healing journey.
Why did I have to go throughthis?
I'm happy for what I'm doingnow, I love what I'm doing right
(41:12):
now, but why did I have to gothrough this so really reminding
me that there's an area ofhealing that still needs to
happen?
Speaker 2 (41:21):
So I receive that.
I want to thank both of you forthat.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
You're welcome.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Marissa anything else before?
Speaker 4 (41:29):
we close.
Yeah, thank you so much forhaving me as a guest.
This has been a beautiful,healing experience for me,
awesome, and yeah, I just wantto share.
I guess you don't have to do italone, right?
You don't have to plan yourpivot, you don't have to gather
the information in isolation,because that can really be a
draining process that can kindof sink your ship before you
(41:51):
even get it sailing, right.
Yeah, kind of sink your shipbefore you even get it sailing,
right, yeah, um, so, being incommunity where we are pouring
into each other just as we've,done in this interview right in,
in reflecting back to eachother that we are so incredibly
powerful that's often why we'retargeted in these workplaces
right, because of our brilliance, because of our power, because
we see things much differentlythan other people, um, and to
(42:15):
reframe that as a strength andto get in community with other
black women who are on the samejourney.
Um, it's so special.
It's a very special place thatwe've curated, and we love for
you to attend the summit thankyou so much.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
I think, mercy you call it truth tellers that black
women were truth tellers.
I think that's what kind ofmakes us a target in the
workplace, and you know what'sso magical about this space
right now.
I was just literally justthought about this.
We have boomers, we have Gen Xand we have millennial.
So to show across all thegenerations how we're able to
(42:52):
come together and learn from oneanother and uplift one another
for sure.
It's a beautiful thing well, Ican't wait to see you all again
can't wait to be here again,yeah this is a great way to
close.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
Thank you for listening.
This has been another episodeof Black Boomer Besties from
Brooklyn, brooklyn.
This has been another episodeof Black Boomer Besties from
Brooklyn.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com